1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: when out budget support, Ukraine can't win the war. It 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: needs both the military assistance and the budget support. The 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Chinese are playing hardball here. The United States has been 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: pushing back Bloomberg Sound on Politics, policy and perspective from 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: DC's top name. So we need to pay the bill 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: that we've already approved. This was not a conversation about 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: utra spending. We're thirty one trillion in debt to debt ceilings. 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: A check on the debt and our fiscal path is unsustainable. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: Sloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: would be a major reversal for the Biden administration detaining 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: migrant families who crossed the border illegally. The New York 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Times says it is now being considered seriously by this 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: White House, the same policy the President shut down in 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: favor of a more humane immigration system that he described 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: just last month. That was a human right for you know, 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: Jews in Germany to be able to go to get 18 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: their escape and get help where they could. But the 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: other side of this is there's also the people in 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: this country have basic rights that are here basic fundamental 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: rights to assure that people are coming have been checked out. 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: They're not criminals, they're not problem they're you know that 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: their background checks are real. So it's a balancing act 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: and it's one that is not coming easily here as 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: we're joined by David Leopold, partner and chair of the 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 1: Immigration Practice Group at Almer and Burne Law Firm, also 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: former president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. David, welcome back. 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: I wonder your reaction when you first saw this headline 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: if it was one of disbelief or a thought that 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: this White House maybe inching closer to a reality check 31 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: here as they try to balance human rights on both 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: sides of the border. Yeah, Joe, thanks for having me back. Look, 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: a couple things came to my head. Number one, I 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: think President Joe Biden how to have a talk with Canada, 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: h Joe Biden. President Biden, when he was campaigning, decried 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: lacking children, children up in cages. Um. He called it 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: a moral failure and he was right. And it's astonishing 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: that they would even consider changing that tune. And you 39 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: know what I see here in the Biden administration is 40 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: sphere of twenty twenty four they're concerned about, they're concerned 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: about what the Republicans might might do with the border, 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: and which which sort of it's extremely frustrating because there 43 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: is the border has been used as a cudgel against 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: this administration by the Republicans. And rather than you know, 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: try to out Trump Trump, which is not going to work, 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: the Biden administration how to be leaning into the issue 47 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: and um, you know, working to uh to legalize, to 48 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: fix the immigration system so that we don't have issues 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: of the border. Well, do you think they're even going 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: to do it? This is this is a question still, 51 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: it's being considered right now as the administration prepares for 52 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: a post Tie forty two world. It doesn't mean they'll 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: actually do it. No, it doesn't mean they'll actually do it, 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: but clearly they're floating it as a possibility. I mean, 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: obviously that's what's going on. I think what the Biden 56 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: administration ought to be doing, rather than playing games with 57 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: the border is asking the Republicans what is your solution? 58 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: Because they have no solutions, but they have been asking that. 59 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: They don't get many answers on it, David. They of 60 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: course Republicans say secure the border and then we'll have 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: that conversation. They've been saying that for twenty thirty years. 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: What they've never done has come up with a comprehensive plan. 63 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: And the reality is what the Republicans want is no 64 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: immigration whatsoever. And if that's the case, they should just 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: say so rather than completely you know, fear mongering, fear mongering, 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: trying to mix issues and scare the American people about 67 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: the border and about immigration in general. And it's very 68 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: frustrating that the Biden administration is taking a defensive react, 69 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, floating a defensive action, trying to out Trump 70 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: Trump than going forward, and well, is that what they're doing, David, 71 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: And for the benefit of our listeners, you know, remember 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: the whole separating families at the border issue that was 73 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: a massive controversy during the Trump administration. I'll even bring 74 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 1: you back. This is Donald Trump in April of twenty nineteen, remember, 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: right for you know, once you don't have it. That's 76 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: why you see many more people coming that coming like 77 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: it's a picnic, because let's go to Disneyland. President Obama 78 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: had child separation. Take a look. The press knows it, 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: you know it, We all know it. I didn't have 80 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: I'm the one that stopped it. Fast forward to today, David, 81 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: whether or not you want to qualify him stopping it. 82 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: When we talk about detaining families, are we also talking 83 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: about separating children from their parents in certain circumstances. I 84 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: mean the way that could work as children could be 85 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: released from detention, parents kept in detention. It's a bad idea, 86 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: and it's a that idea for detaining families. Detaining children 87 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: in any context is a bad idea, and it's cruel 88 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: and the you know, all we need to do is 89 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: look to if it's about deterrence, about keeping people from 90 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: coming to the border, we know that that doesn't work. 91 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: There was a report that came out from the Office 92 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: of Latin of Latin American Affairs in Washington and even 93 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: putting aside cruelty, it doesn't make any sense to put 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: kids in cages with or without their parents. The American 95 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: Academy of Pediatrics is also issued report about about this 96 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: and they decry locking children up the long term effects. 97 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: There are other ways to solve this issue other than 98 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: putting children and their parents, or children alone in jail 99 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: and in a jail and or leading to separation of 100 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: the parents that's what this leads to, ultimately parents being 101 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: separated from their children. Well, that's something we're going to 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: be hearing a lot more about if that is the case. 103 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: But I want to just bring you into a versation 104 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: that was had just last week at Seapack, the Conservative 105 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: Political Action conference here in the Washington area. Tom Holman, 106 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: who was Director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement for 107 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: a time in the Trump administration, a former police officer, 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: served during the administration as acting director. To be clear, 109 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: he weighed in on separating families at the border, and 110 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: I actually had to bleep this so he could play 111 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: it on the air. Listening and I'm second tired to 112 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: hearing about the family separation and I'm still being sued 113 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: over that. So come give me. I don't give it, right, 114 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: bottom liners, All right, we enforced the law American families. 115 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: I was a cop in New York and I rust 116 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: a father for domestic violence or summer from du I 117 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: separate that family. When you violate the law with a child, 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: you're going to be separated. But you're right. Two hundred 119 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand children have crossed this board since Joe 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: Biden has been present. These charged to separate themselves and 121 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: the children are always children. David, what's your reaction to that. Well, Holman, 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: you know in the trumpiest fashion and sticks to lies 123 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: and half truths. I mean, I have very little respect 124 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: for him, and I had very little respect for his 125 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: service to the country. I figure that's true. But is 126 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: he not right that if you broke the law here 127 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: in this country you'd end up being separated from your family. 128 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: Let's let's be clear here. People who come here seeking 129 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: asylum are doing so in compliance of the law. Whether 130 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: they do it at a port of entry or whether 131 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: they do it between ports of entry. That's not my 132 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: interpretation of the law. That's exactly what the statute says. 133 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: And mister Harman and others who don't believe me ought 134 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: to go read the law directly. The law permits people 135 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: to apply for asylum. And if he doesn't like that, 136 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: he can ask Congress to change the law. But that's 137 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: what the law says. If you come to the country 138 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: and apply for asylum, that's perfectly legal, whether you come 139 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,119 Speaker 1: and do it at a port of entry or whether 140 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: you do it between ports of entry. So these folks 141 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: who decry people coming and applying for relief in this 142 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: country ought to read the law of themselves before they 143 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: pontificate in a hateful and a hate filled forum like Seapack. 144 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: So you're looking forward, David, and I don't want to 145 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: get into an argument about Seapack. We've actually done quite 146 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: a bit on that of the last couple of days. 147 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: But my fault I brought you there. But when you 148 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: look ahead a couple of days, when you look ahead 149 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: to the month of May, knowing that this emergency declaration 150 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: comes down, Title forty two goes away. What is the 151 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: consensus or isn't there one among immigration attorneys, experts like 152 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: you in this field on how to manage what's going 153 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: to be a deluge of people at the border. Absolutely, 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: and that is a critical question. And when you get 155 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: into the House and the wise. But what we need 156 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: and I think I don't think I know what the 157 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: American people want, and this comes from various polls and studies. 158 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: They want order, they want they want to fix the chaos. 159 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: So what we need is appropriate, appropriate resources to make 160 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: sure that these asylum cases are heard. Those that qualify 161 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: move forward. Those that don't go back, I'm not you 162 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: know that they should they should go back. People will 163 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: have to be from the United States if they don't 164 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: qualify to be here, but they do deserve their day 165 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: in court, and they do deserve due process. That's not again, 166 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: that's the law. That's what our country has decided to do. 167 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: We should be doing it, and we should be marshaling 168 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: resources to the border so that they can get in 169 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: front of a judge quickly, so that those claims can 170 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: be heard fairly and with due process, and those that 171 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: qualify get relief. Those that don't ultimately go back. That's 172 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: the law and that's the way it should be enforced. David, 173 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: I appreciate your being with us today. David Leopold with 174 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: the insights from the Immigration Practice Group at Almer and Burne. 175 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: He spent time as president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, 176 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: and we assemble our panel for more on this. Glad 177 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: to say we have Johanna Mascot with us today, Democratic 178 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: Strategists and CEO of the Global Situation Room, joined by 179 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: Lauren Claffey Tomlinson, Republican Strategists, President of Claffey Communications. Great 180 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: to see you both. Thank you so much for being here. Lauren, 181 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to start with you because there's a lot 182 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: of Republican criticism, of course, against the way the White 183 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: House is handling this. Do you look at this story 184 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: as Joe Biden caving to the inevitable? No. I view 185 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: this story as immigration being a very complicated issue. You 186 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: have have congressional in action for decades. You have an 187 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: administration that really has limited options. And the reason why 188 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: we keep seeing the same solutions over and over again 189 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: is because you have a Department of Finland Security that 190 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: is seeking to enforce the law anyway they can, but 191 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: there's only so many tools in their toolbox that they 192 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: can use at this point. And also it's the same 193 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: careers over and over, right, like coming up with the 194 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: same solutions and going back to the drawing board. So 195 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: I think really Biden has no choice but to go 196 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: to Congress to change this. They need to surge resources, 197 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: like more judges in order to process socially, claims quicker. 198 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: There's some things that can only happen if Congress steps in, 199 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: and I think that's what we're seeing more so than 200 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: any sort of political flip flopping in all these other things. So, Johannah, 201 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: does this actually forced the hand of Congress to do 202 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: something here? Do you actually think the White House will 203 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: reinstate the policy. Well, I really wish that Congress would 204 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: do something on it. Lauren's absolutely right, it is you know, 205 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: my entire adult life. Congress has failed to act on this. 206 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: But the problem for Democrats is we find ourselves in 207 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: a defensive position yet again because we came in and 208 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: we said we were going to change something. So on messaging. 209 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: I do think it actually opens us up to a 210 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: vulnerability here where as other leaders, whether they're governors or 211 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: the like, are acting. And so you know, if Congress 212 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: isn't acting, the President isn't acting, and the governors are acting, 213 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: the governors are looking like the leaders here, which for 214 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: President Biden is certainly for a real act, will set 215 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: him up to some vulnerabilities. Interesting you mentioned the governors. 216 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: Of course, we remember President Biden's visit to the border 217 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: back in January. I was going to say last month, 218 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: as a couple months ago already, Greg Abbott met him 219 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: on the tarmac, gave him a letter and talked to 220 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: report is about what was inside. I said, you, mister 221 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: presid you have a job to do, and that is 222 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: to enforce the immigration laws already on the books and 223 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: i'line five ways and that letter of what it can 224 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: do right now without any new law having to be passed. Lauren, 225 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: what should be the Republican response to this White House decision? 226 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: I think that the Republicans need to be stressing the 227 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,359 Speaker 1: difference between supporting legal immigration and not supporting illegal immigration. 228 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: I think that's going That's been something that has been 229 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: confused in our messaging very much over and I think 230 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: most Republicans do. I mean, you need healthy legal immigration 231 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: systems in order to support the economy and to support 232 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 1: our communities. And I think that's what you see in 233 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: the polling as well. So for me, the republic the 234 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: correct Republican responses, how can we encourage legal immigration while 235 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: discouraging illegal immigration. How can we make sure that we 236 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: are offering enough refugee visas and other paths for some 237 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: of these people seeking different ways out of their bad 238 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: situations in other countries and support their legal process here. 239 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: And I think you've seen the Biden administration try to 240 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: do this a little bit with some of their changes 241 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: to for example, of Venezuelan policy and offering plane tickets 242 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: to the US and things like that to try to 243 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: discourage that illegal immigration. But for Republicans, they really do 244 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: need to lead into this fact that we've got a 245 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: huge backlog with DGA in processing these society claims we 246 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: have no real process for Congress to the Congress hasn't 247 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: stepped in and said what they want from a current 248 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: immigration system that can support our economy. And so for Republicans, 249 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: I just go back to as much as we can 250 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: stress support for legal pathways and legal immigration is going 251 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: to be the way forward. Laura makes a great point there, Johanna. 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: This just goes for the issue across the board. When 253 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: you say immigration, people assume you mean illegal immigration. How 254 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: important is that delineation between the two because enforcement and 255 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: border enforcement and immigration are two different stories. That's exactly right. 256 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: And lookin the majority of people who know that we 257 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: need workers in America know that we need immigration. And 258 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: immigration over the course of America's history has been our strength. 259 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: It has developed our fortune, five hundred companies. It has 260 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: brought massive ideas where we've solved problems for the world. So, 261 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think in terms of what Lauren saying 262 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: talking about legal immigration, it's the same exact thing that 263 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: Democrats need to say, which is why I think you 264 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: know if there is a path. Gosh, I would love 265 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: for Congress to take this up, and I do think 266 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: that they would have the American public support. The question 267 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: is are they going to actually take this opportunity and 268 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: do something in front. We're going to find something for 269 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: these dwo to disagree on. I can guarantee it. The 270 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: panel more Next on sound On This is Bloomberg. You're 271 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us live 272 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, Bihart Radio app, 273 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business App. We're listening on demand wherever 274 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. This is Bloomberg So Long with 275 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. You know, this immigration issue 276 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: would be so much easier to fix if it weren't 277 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: for politics, right. I know it's hard to see, but 278 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: because our politics has been so divisive. Yeah, no, it's 279 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: getting much better than you've all observed. But it's been 280 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: so tarn divisive that it clouds the picture. Let me 281 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: cloud to the picture as we try to clear the 282 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: air here with our panel. Democratic strategist Johanna Masca of 283 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: the Global Situation Room, News Nation contributor, along with Republican 284 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: strategist Lauren Claffey Tomlinson of Steer PR. It's great to 285 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: have both of you here. I don't want to be 286 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: too cute here, obviously, Lauren, with such a serious issue, 287 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: but it really comes down to that, right with vested 288 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: interests on both sides. It is the third rail for 289 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: a reason. How do you cut through the political haze 290 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: here with a new Republican majority in the House and 291 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: a president who wants to run for reelection? You know, 292 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: I really think that, like we were just talking about, 293 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: like Kevin McCarthy sitting down with Hakim and saying, this 294 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: isn't a serious issue that we need to address, you know, 295 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: and he was speaking about this select committee on the 296 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: CCP on China. But I think that it's going to 297 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: take Congress really sitting down and wanting to fix this 298 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: because you know, he's Biden's appointed Kamala as the you know, 299 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: Borders Are or whatever the title is, and she hasn't 300 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: really done anything on it, so his options are kind 301 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: of limited. Does he appoint someone that can go then 302 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: represent the administration's views and then negotiate with Congress. We've 303 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: seen that kind of happen before, and it hasn't worked 304 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: out too well. It's an election cycle beginning now, though 305 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: the timing is it's awful, right, Like, I don't think 306 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: that you're going to have major immigration reform before twenty 307 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: twenty four. But Biden also hasn't technically announced. Wouldn't it 308 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: be something if he didn't? And then it took this on? 309 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: How true, Johannah, what's your thought on this? You're coming 310 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: into an election season. It makes it so much harder 311 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: than it would have been, for instance, when Democrats owned 312 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: the Hill and the White House and couldn't get it done. 313 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: Then yeah, well, and look, this election is not an 314 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: election for the Queen of England and US running. Look, 315 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: I worked with President Biden. I am a fan of 316 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: his statesmanship for a long time. But running someone who 317 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: will be eighty two entering office is a major vulnerability 318 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: for Democrats, and so I do think that you know, 319 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: insofar as could President Biden opt out, well he still could, 320 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: but I don't think he's going to, which sets up 321 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: for the exact situation that Lauren was just talking about. 322 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: I like that idea of the Select Committee, like what 323 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: they're doing on China, because there are so many Democrats 324 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: and Republicans from states that are dealing with this and 325 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: know that this is an issue, who could come to 326 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: the table for something like that. So it would love 327 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: to see something like that happened. If it happens under 328 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: Republican leadership, then shame on us Democrats because we've had 329 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity and we could do it too. 330 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: So hopefully we do it, whether you know we have 331 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: Senate leadership or other leadership is the dirty word comprehensive here, 332 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: take a piecemeal approach. You might be able to get 333 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: a couple of things done, Lauren, instead of trying to 334 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: do it all at once in such a toxic climate. Absolutely. 335 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: I mean that's why we've seen every other immigration bill pass, 336 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean a fail right, like, because they kept tacking 337 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: on things, tacking on things that got more controversial, more controversial. 338 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: There's actually a lot that people agree on as far 339 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: as basic reforms that can make a huge difference. I 340 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: keep going back to just more judges processing asylum claims. Wow, 341 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: what a revolutionary idea. But doing something like that would 342 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: then eliminate the family detention process or an issue, because 343 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to detain them if you're immediately processing them. 344 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: And so if there's then you don't have children having 345 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: to go or having the decision of if children need 346 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: to be detained or not detained. Right. So there's a 347 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: lot of things like that that if and that wouldn't 348 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: require more funding for the border, right, So that's a 349 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: new argument we need money to do exactly. So there's 350 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: just some things that Congress needs to actually authorize and 351 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: put the dollars for that would make huge differences. But again, 352 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of low hanging fruit that if they 353 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: took that piecemeal approach, maybe they can actually get something done. Well, 354 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 1: there's another dirty word here. Well I shouldn't say that, 355 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: but it's it's a controversial word, and that's asylum. It's 356 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: actually part of the foundation of this country. It should 357 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: not be a dirty word. But when you start talking 358 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: about dreamers, Republicans turn away. Right. So at some point 359 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: both sides need to come to grips with what they 360 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: don't want. If you're going to get an actual agreement 361 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: on border security, immigration policy, and dealing with those who 362 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: are already here, when's that going to happen? Yeah, who knows, 363 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: but you know, I think that it's these are human 364 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: beings it's impossible to just ignore that people are here 365 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: however they got here. So it's going to be something 366 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: that Congress and Republicans and Democrats are going to keep ignoring, 367 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: keep ignoring. But at some point we're going to have 368 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that there's people here living, 369 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: living here illegally, and they have so for decades. The 370 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: calm Dreamers, they are getting to be grown ups at 371 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: this point. Johanna that that's got to be the trigger 372 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: right for Republicans to come around on Dreamers. That brings 373 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: Democrats to the table on security. What do you think? Yes, 374 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: And look, I think it's a problem that everyone knows 375 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: in their communities because you have people who have been 376 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: here for twenty years and didn't even know that they 377 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: were brought here as children and are not a citizen. 378 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: There's the you know, border agent I found out that 379 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: he in fact was not here legally. This is you know, 380 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: when you get down to the situation in local communities, 381 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: there are very few people who say throw them out. 382 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: There's a way to say, Okay, how are we going 383 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: to fix this solution for someone who even educated, who 384 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: we've invested in to make sure that they are able 385 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: to legally be part of the process, and I think 386 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: your right language needs to change. You know, it's not 387 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: about asylum. It's about, you know, making sure that we 388 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: can and enforce law and order by making sure that 389 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: people are all documented. And that is you know, the 390 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: process in which we're going to get more people to 391 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: the table is when we start shifting some of the language, 392 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: when we bring Democrats and Republicans together to say this 393 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: is just, you know, too much of an issue, and 394 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: we're not We're not going to take a bunch of 395 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, people who have been working in this country 396 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: for quite some time, and it wouldn't even be smart 397 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: to then take them back to their country of origin, 398 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: in which some cases they can't even speak the language. 399 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: One of my friends from the Philippines like, it's like, 400 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: what am I going back to the Philippines? I don't 401 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: know the Philippines. You know that that is the truth, 402 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: is that we need to get people in this country 403 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: legally so that we can enforce all of the laws 404 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: on the books. And I think that's something I would 405 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: hope Republicans could come to the table with Democrats. Rats 406 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: are ready for it. Let's keep twenty twenty four in 407 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: mind here. Donald Trump said at Seapack last week he 408 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: wants to conduct the greatest deportation program in the history 409 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: of America. The minute he's elected. We're kicking people out 410 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: of this place. And he said as much in his 411 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: first election cycle. What's the answer to that for any 412 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: other Republican, whether you're Nicky Haley or Rhonda Santis who 413 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: might be planning to run against Donald Frump. I think 414 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: there's a real constituency of Republican voters, you know. I 415 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: think of suburban moms, for example, who are very turned 416 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: off by that type of language, the more callused language 417 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: around immigration and the people who have immigrated here illegally. 418 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: And then but people who are also concerned about the 419 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: safety of their communities that are also concerned about some 420 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: of the crime that's going on in the United States 421 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: broadly right now, not by illegal immigrants, just in general. 422 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: And so there's there's a lot of people who are 423 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: not going to necessarily go jump on the Democrats bandwagon 424 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: that there's too many issues there between inflation, education system, 425 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: all these other kind of issues or perculating that I 426 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: think will be important in twenty twenty four, but that 427 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: are not exactly looking for a return to Trump is 428 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: m and the language there so there it depends on 429 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: I think who ends up running and the Republican circle. 430 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: But I mean, if everybody who's talking about running right 431 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: now ends up jumping in, there's a lot of space 432 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: for nuance and a lot of space for them to 433 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: collect those types of voters who are not going to 434 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: vote for Trump, but who would be very interested in 435 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: a Republican candidate who wants to bring prices down, who 436 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: wants to restore a little bit more law and order 437 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: and police funding and all of those types of things, 438 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: and who's not going to go in with really harsh 439 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: immigration policy, but who has a more nuanced, humane view 440 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: on that. And that's actually where I think there's kind 441 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: of a winning space there. But you know, it's just 442 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: Trump's going to get the headlines on there sure a while. Absolutely, 443 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: is there an opportunity for nuance as we talk about 444 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: reinstating potentially family detention here, Johanna, Is there opportunity for 445 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: nuance from Joe Biden, who will likely be doing this 446 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: all by himself if he runs for reelection. I'm assuming 447 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: that he's not going to be primaried by a Democrat. 448 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: Is he almost handcuffed by his own policy. Yes and no. Okay. 449 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: The thing is, when Biden runs, he has kind of 450 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: stacked the deck for himself. If he jumps in, which 451 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: we expect him to jump in, he's stacked the deck. 452 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: And so you know to the extent that Marion Williamson 453 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: is holding his feet to the fire. I mean, I 454 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: think in the Democratic Party we are going to have 455 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: the progressives who are going to say you need to 456 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: let everyone in, this is inhumane, and yet Biden will 457 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: likely win that primary without any problem. When you get 458 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: to the Republicans. You know, the one thing I would 459 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: disagree with Lauren on is I don't actually think there's 460 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: much room for nuance in the Republican Party. I think 461 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: they want someone who's going to say those tough things, 462 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: and I think that DeSantis says it better than Trump. 463 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean, if they run Trump and we run Biden, 464 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: we will win. We have already done that three times. 465 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: You're more worried about Ron. I am much more worried 466 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: about Ron de Santis absolutely, Like I have now read 467 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: his book. I don't agree with his positions, but he 468 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: has a reason to have those positions, and he has 469 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: articulated that in the Florida you know context and one 470 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: he's won over, you know, a larger percentage of the 471 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: Hispanic population, despite talking tough on immigration and despite flying 472 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: migrants to Martha. That's what we're going to be hearing 473 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: a lot more about. Johanna. I wish we had more time, 474 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: and Lauren, we did get you to disagree on something. 475 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: Great conversation, really smart talking. I appreciate both of you 476 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: taking this so seriously. Democratic strategist Johanna Maska the Global 477 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: Situation Room with News Nation as well, and Republican strategist 478 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: Lauren Claffey Thomason of steer PR back with us on Bloomberg. 479 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on pine Cast. Catch 480 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: the program live weekdays at five pm Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 481 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: the tuning app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 482 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 483 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 484 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 485 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: So if the dead limit is the one thing no 486 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: one in Washington wants to deal with crypto might be 487 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: the thing everyone wants to deal with but they don't 488 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: know how. And fascinating analysis today from Bloomberg Intelligence. Even 489 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: if that's an oxymoron crypto bill with bipartisan backing maybe 490 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: basis for twenty three debate. I mean, it's obvious BI 491 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: does the best work. That's why we have them here. 492 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: And Nathan Dean is with us along from BI, along 493 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: with Kaylee Lions. Great to see you both here. Nathan, 494 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: you did some good work on just the chances for 495 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: crypto to be regulated. Last time we spoke, they weren't 496 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: looking all that great. But as you write, reports suggesting 497 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: a skim down version of the Responsible Financial Innovation Act 498 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: to be released mid April confirms your view that passing 499 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: a broad crypto framework this year will be difficult, but 500 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: it allows an opportunity for something smaller. Yes, yeah, that's 501 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: exactly right. I mean, so you know, at least they're trying. 502 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: You know that, that's what we're what we're saying here, 503 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: and you know, uh, you know the reports that Senator 504 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: Loomis and Jill Brand are going to come back with 505 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: their Responsible Financial Innovation Act in mid April, and the 506 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: skim down version. The version that came out last year 507 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: was very broad, did everything. You know, that's just not 508 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: going to pass the Congress today because of FTX and 509 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: this crypto winter and so forth. So we're looking to 510 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: see what this legislation comes back. You know, We're looking 511 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: to see does it solidify bitcoin and ethereum as commodities, 512 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: does it give crypto players a way to register with 513 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: the CFTC other than the SEC. But you know, most 514 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: importantly our analysis is is that we think stable cooin 515 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: legislation has a better chance of passage. Some comments today 516 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: from the FED chairman and its testimony suggests that. But 517 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: this other legislation, you know, it's just it's going to 518 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: really struggle because everybody wants to do something. Yeah, but 519 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: nobody knows what that is. Isn't that right? So I 520 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: guess I hit it kind of right on the way 521 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: end of this conversation. It's it's amazing, Kaylee, to see 522 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: so many people aiming to the same goal but not 523 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: being able to agree on it. And it comes down 524 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: to just defining what it is to begin with. Doesn't 525 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: it down to semantics at the end of the day. 526 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I was at a symposium with both Senators 527 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: jillibrand An Lummis last week where they basically were saying 528 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: part of the revisions in this Billard that the SEC 529 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: was having some questions about what exactly these definitions are. Ultimately, though, 530 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: when you talk to players in the industry, they are saying, 531 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: please define it, Please set the rules of the road, 532 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: because ultimately it is Congress that can dictate what regulatory 533 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: authority the SEC or CFTC has and until that happens, 534 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: it's really hard for players in the industry to know 535 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: how to operate. And that is where you get regulation 536 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: by enforcement. As so many people like to generalize what 537 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: Gary Gensler is trying to do right now at the SEC. 538 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: I could never get hired at BI for asking this question. 539 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: But how is bitcoin a commodity when it doesn't do anything? 540 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: So the courts have deemed it a commodity. But essentially 541 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: think of it this way, you know, Chairman Gensler has 542 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: said that he thinks the tokens out there are securities, 543 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: and his high level of view there's this test called 544 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: the Howie test, but his high level of view is 545 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: essentially if there is an entrepreneur, or is there a 546 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: person who is trying to profit off this or is 547 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: working to get a profit off this. Then that falls 548 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: in the security camp. Something that is decentralized and given 549 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: out to the world, like bitcoin, that doesn't really have 550 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: key players. That's more in the commodity space. So you know, 551 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: but you know, there is a big catalyst coming up 552 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: this week. The Senate Ad Committee is having a hearing 553 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: with the CFTC chairman. I'm not really anticipating much from 554 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: the CFTC chairman, but I want to hear if the 555 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: Senate ad leadership is going to bring back their Digital 556 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: Commodities Consumer Protection Act. That's the other key bill that 557 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: I think crypto investors should be watching this year. You're 558 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: nodding here at Kaylee, why is it important? Well, the 559 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: DCCPA could be ultimately one of the most defining pieces 560 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: of legislation for crypto should it return in some form. 561 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: I guess there's a question of whether, and Nathan and 562 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: I have discussed this before that in terms of priority, 563 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: when you have a farm bill to get through, will 564 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: ultimately be something that they really want to pursue. But 565 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: it is It does come down again to the authority question. 566 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: Nathan's right to point out that so much of this 567 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: just comes down to what the definition of a security is. 568 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: And the way Gary Gensler to this point has been 569 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: trying to prove something as a security, and therefore under 570 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: his jurisdiction is to litigate and have the courts decide 571 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: to rule that. But if you actually get something that says, okay, no, 572 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: here are the baskets and we're actually laying out what 573 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: it should be considered a security and what isn't in theory, 574 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: that would make things a lot easier and you wouldn't 575 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: have to have so much litigation as we're seeing taking 576 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: shape this week. You, of course, come from a Wall 577 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: Street perspective here, Kaylee and your crypto program, You're you're 578 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: dealing as much with the investors side as anything else. 579 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: The cry for help here has been growing louder. But 580 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: I just wonder how seriously investors will take any final product. 581 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: I know that there's a and ask for direction, but 582 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: what happens when it's actually codified. It's a really good 583 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: question because it's also highly unusual that an industry is saying, 584 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: please regulate us, we want more restrictions, But that is 585 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: exactly what's happening here and on the one hand, and 586 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: Nathan points this out on his piece. Regulation could come 587 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: with a cost for a lot of these businesses, but 588 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: how do you value the clarity that comes with the 589 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: regulation and frankly, regulatory enforcement actions that are put upon 590 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: you because you don't exactly know what is going to 591 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: be allowed and what isn't also can come with a 592 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: cost as well. So it's kind of a catch twenty 593 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: two here where there could be a cost either way. 594 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: But at least if you know what you're doing, you 595 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: can hedge against the risk of you having to pay 596 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: that cost in the future. And I would just quickly 597 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: point out that, you know, when it comes to crypto 598 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: the market, you know, different players want different things. You know, 599 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: when you put a broad piece of regulation out here, 600 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: it's usually the firms that have the technology expertise, the 601 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: cost expertise compliance just having a meeting with the SEC, 602 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: for example. But we'll run you maybe a quarter of 603 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: a million dollars. It's not shocked by that. That's incredible. 604 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: You know, if the three of us decide to go 605 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: down to my garage and create a web three platform, 606 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: that's kind of a lot of you know, we need 607 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: a lot of investment money though, so you know you 608 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: may run into the situation later this year in Congress 609 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: where the established players like coin base may be advocating 610 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: for one thing, but the actual decentralized community may be 611 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: advocating for something. Now about the lawmakers themselves, we had 612 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: Brad Sherman on yesterday, the Democrat from California. It just 613 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: thinks that crypto is a disaster. It's it's a front 614 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: for crime. Other lawmakers are trying to preserve this nascent 615 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: technology and do it right. Will this be bipartisan whatever 616 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: form it takes, So that that's the challenge, and you 617 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: know you are going to have the lawmakers out there, 618 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: like Representative Sherman, who just do not trust this whatsoever. 619 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: In the Senate Banking Committee hearing that was on Valentine's Day, 620 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: there was lots of discussion using the words customer protection, 621 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: national security. That is not easy to get through in 622 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: terms of trying to develop a new framework and innovative 623 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: framework and so forth like that. So you know they're 624 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: going to have to work through this. And the ultimate 625 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: thing that could cause this bill from not passing is 626 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: you have Chairman Gary Gensler over at the SEC saying 627 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties air securities law implies that's the framework. Yeah, 628 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: he's being told that's not the case, Kaylee. He's probably 629 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: not going to budge on that. Does he go testify 630 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of all this, Well, that's an excellent question. 631 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: And who does he decide to testify in front of 632 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: if indeed he does decide to grace Capitol Hill with 633 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: his presence, because if you have multiple committees requesting him. 634 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: From the conversations I have had with sources close to 635 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: the SEC, is someone who doesn't delegate very well, and 636 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: he does a lot of this work himself, is including 637 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: preparations for hearings, and in theory, that can be used 638 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: as an excuse to pick and choose. So it'll be 639 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: interesting to see if he does show up what kind 640 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: of questions he faces, because, as you say, there is 641 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: a bit of partisanship here. I mean, the Digital Asset 642 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: Subcommittee in the House is holding its first hearing on Thursday, 643 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: and even just the title of the hearing is a 644 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 1: bit in scenaria. You can say to us basically, and 645 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrase about the ministrations, the administrations meaning the Biden 646 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: administration's crackdown on this ecosystem. Basically, it comes back to 647 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: this idea of regulating by enforcement, and that's something that 648 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: Congressman Frenchill has talked a lot about that regulating by 649 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: enforcement is not the way to regulate industry. Right, So, okay, 650 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: if you're Gary Gansler, then does it matter if in 651 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: fact legislation passes, Nathan is, does that create rules of 652 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: the roads So we don't spend two hundred thousand dollars 653 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: for a meeting with the SEC. So you're still gonna 654 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: have to spend that money, no matter why. That's that's 655 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: just how Washington works. But you know, essentially, when you 656 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: get this type of legislation, you are going to get 657 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: at least an idea of how to prepare for three 658 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: to five years from now. And what I mean by 659 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: that is any type of legislation that passes probably has 660 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: to end up with ninety eight percent of the tokens 661 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: out there still under the jurisdiction of the SEC. I 662 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: don't think you can get democratic support without that. But 663 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: the question is what can eventually go over to the CFTC, 664 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: which in my opinion, is less onerous in terms of regulation. 665 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: It's principles based, so you just have to meet the 666 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: principle of the rule. You know, but if you get 667 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: Bitcoin and ethereum and a couple of other tokens over 668 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: to the CFTC, that allows these crypto platforms and these 669 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: investors to at least be able to plan, how do 670 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: we actually go forth Because there's a lot of folks 671 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: right now who are just saying, I want to pick 672 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: up my toys and I'm going to go play abroad 673 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: and then I'll come back into amazing. I did find 674 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: that title, Joe, Yeah, coincidence or coordinate the administration's attack 675 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: on the digital asset ecosystem. I mean, those are some 676 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: choice works that leading. Now, hold on a second. Your 677 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: thirty percent chance of passage you gave to the Lummis 678 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: Jeilah Brand bill, is that right? Yeah? For at BI. 679 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: If this is whittled down, those odds go up. Well, 680 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: it depends on what the Senate Act Committee is going 681 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: to do with those Digital Commodity Consumers Protection Act. But 682 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, the Lumis Jeilabrand bill, in my opinion, is 683 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: a good bill to put out there at least two 684 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: get the provisions out there in policymakers heads. Part of 685 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: the problem last year is that it was so broad 686 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: it would have to go through four committees. We're waiting 687 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: to see what this skim down version would actually do, 688 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: but you know, again, you know, we're more positive on 689 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: stable coin legislation, but for general crypto, non stable coin, 690 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: we're around. Got it. Wow, fascinating. I think we just 691 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: created like the new crypto Power Panel with you guys. 692 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: Fascinating conversation, Nathan Dean, Kaylee Lines. Thanks to both of you,