WEBVTT - Luigi Mangione Was Radicalized By Pain

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<v Speaker 1>Also media. Hi everyone, It's me James, and I'm coming

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<v Speaker 1>at you today with one of these little requests that

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<v Speaker 1>I make sometimes when there's something that we would like

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<v Speaker 1>you to do, when it's very important to do. So

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<v Speaker 1>today I want to talk to you about Syria, and

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<v Speaker 1>specifically North East Syria. So with the world's eyes fixed

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<v Speaker 1>on Syria, many are rightly celebrating as a brutal dictatorship

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<v Speaker 1>of Basha a Lasad comes to an end. But for

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<v Speaker 1>Kurdish and other minority communities, recent days have bought violent attacks,

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<v Speaker 1>ethnic cleansing and occupation by Turkis back to Jahadis groups

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<v Speaker 1>in an attempt to take advantage of the chaos by

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<v Speaker 1>crushing the Rajava Revolution. Turkey and its mercenaries are openly

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<v Speaker 1>committing war crimes against the region's autonomous communities. Many thousands

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<v Speaker 1>have already been forced to be displaced and thousands more

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<v Speaker 1>are in danger. To make matters worth this remains largely

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<v Speaker 1>absent from the mainstream media reporting on Syria. If you'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to share your solidarity with the people of northern

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<v Speaker 1>and Eastern Syria, please call on Congress to take urgent

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<v Speaker 1>action by passing the Emergency Legislation to stop the final

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<v Speaker 1>hold Turkey accountable and commit US support to the Syrian

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<v Speaker 1>democratic forces and the diverse communities under their protection. If

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<v Speaker 1>you want to take action today, you can go to

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<v Speaker 1>Defendrojaba dot org. That's d E F E N d

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<v Speaker 1>R oja VA dot org. If you are able to

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<v Speaker 1>the most effective action we can take right now is

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<v Speaker 1>to call a couple of representatives. One representative and one senator.

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<v Speaker 1>Representative would be Gregory Meeks. He's from New York. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a Democrat. He is a ranking member of the House

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<v Speaker 1>Foreign Affairs Committee. His phone number is two zero two

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<v Speaker 1>two two five three four six one. The other one

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<v Speaker 1>will be Senator James Rish He's an Idaho Republican. He

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<v Speaker 1>is a ranking member's Senate Foreign Relations Committee. His phone

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<v Speaker 1>number would be two zero two two two four two

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<v Speaker 1>seven five two. If you'd like to have some talking points,

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<v Speaker 1>you can find those on Defendrojaba dot org. If you'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to donate financially instead, especially to this humanitarian aid

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<v Speaker 1>effort for the tens of thousands of people who have

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<v Speaker 1>been displaced by the SNA's advances, you can donate to

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<v Speaker 1>two organizations that I would suggest to. First, we be

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<v Speaker 1>Heavier store the Kurtis Red Crescent. That's h E Yva

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<v Speaker 1>s O r dot com and you want to go

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<v Speaker 1>slash e n If you want to see their website

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<v Speaker 1>in English, you can donate there. The other one will

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<v Speaker 1>be the free Burmer Rangers who are currently working in Raka.

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking to my friend Abat who works with them.

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<v Speaker 1>You can donate to them at www dot free fr

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<v Speaker 1>e E Burma b U r m A rangers dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>We will put all of this in the show notes

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<v Speaker 1>al the URL so if you're driving you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to write them down. Those are the concrete ways that

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<v Speaker 1>we can help right now and what is unfolding as

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<v Speaker 1>a very terrible situation in nor Syria. Thanks, I hope

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<v Speaker 1>you enjoyed the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everyone, Robert Evans here and this is it could

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<v Speaker 2>happen here obviously. One of the things that's been happening here,

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<v Speaker 2>probably the biggest story of the last week or so

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<v Speaker 2>at least, is the shooting of United health Care CEO

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<v Speaker 2>Brian Thompson by an alleged shooter named Luigi Mangione. Meggione

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<v Speaker 2>is an interesting character. People have had a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>say about him and so I went through his online footprint,

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<v Speaker 2>everything I can find on his social media, and I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote an article for my substack Shatter Zone, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to be reading that in a slightly amended form

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<v Speaker 2>for you now as today's episode. I've spent much of

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<v Speaker 2>the last ten years reading manifestos and being a fly

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<v Speaker 2>on the wall in different little online bolt holes where

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<v Speaker 2>extremists plan and seek to incite mass shootings. When Luigi Mangione,

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<v Speaker 2>the suspected shooter of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, was

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<v Speaker 2>arrested at a McDonald's, it didn't take long for digital

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<v Speaker 2>sleuths to put together a comprehensive record of his online activity.

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<v Speaker 2>I will tell you now that nothing he read or

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<v Speaker 2>posted explains why he gunned down an insurance executive better

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<v Speaker 2>than this single image in the background of his Twitter

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<v Speaker 2>profile and the images, of course, of an X ray

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<v Speaker 2>showing four screws in someone's lower base spine, apparently due

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<v Speaker 2>to a lumbar spinal fusion surgery. The day after I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote this article, The New York Times published a piece

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<v Speaker 2>after finding Luigi's read it. The piece by Mike Baker,

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<v Speaker 2>Mike Isaac, and my old boss at bellancat Eric Tohler

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<v Speaker 2>confirms that he had a spinal fusion surgery that he

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<v Speaker 2>had dealt with back pain for years, which had been

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<v Speaker 2>minor and then gotten much worse after a surfing injury,

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<v Speaker 2>and had grown even worse after slipping on a piece

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<v Speaker 2>of paper caused persistent problems, including pain when he sat down,

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<v Speaker 2>twitching leg muscles, and numbness in his growing in bladder.

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<v Speaker 2>According to The New York Times, he had that spinal

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<v Speaker 2>fusion surgery, which he had been deeply frightened of ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of time, but which resolved those symptoms, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>continued to have other symptoms, probably unrelated to the back pain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's unclear if the back pain came back, but what

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<v Speaker 2>is clear is that he wrote constantly online about pain

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<v Speaker 2>and about his struggles with various other health issues, including

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<v Speaker 2>a persistent brain fog that he seemed unable to get

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<v Speaker 2>care for. His friend r J, who lived with him

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<v Speaker 2>at an intentional community for digital workers in Honolulu starting

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two, confirms that Luigi suffered an injury

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<v Speaker 2>shortly after taking a basic surfing class after moving there.

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<v Speaker 2>This laid him up in bed for about a week,

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<v Speaker 2>unable to move his friends had to seek the special

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<v Speaker 2>bed to help him with the pain. In general, we

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<v Speaker 2>have ample confirmation that he was someone who dealt with

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<v Speaker 2>a series of escalating health issues that changed him from

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<v Speaker 2>an extremely active, physically fit young man into somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>felt like they were no longer able to do or

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<v Speaker 2>enjoy the things they had previously been able to do

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<v Speaker 2>and enjoy. Now this is most of what we know

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<v Speaker 2>about the health history of Luigi Maggione as of December tenth.

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<v Speaker 2>Now when I record this twenty twenty four. As I

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<v Speaker 2>write this, a purported manifesto is making the rounds online

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<v Speaker 2>which discusses health issues his mother faced. It's still unclear

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<v Speaker 2>if that manifesto is real. kN Klippenstein has finally gotten

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<v Speaker 2>access to what he claims is the draft of the

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<v Speaker 2>manifesto that the shooter had on him when he was

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<v Speaker 2>arrested by the police. I don't know if that's a

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<v Speaker 2>manifesto or something he wrote while nervous, because he largely

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<v Speaker 2>addresses the cops in it and tells them you know

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<v Speaker 2>what to expect when searching him. But again, at the moment,

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<v Speaker 2>this purported manifesto that was also posted on substack very unclear.

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<v Speaker 2>As to whether or not that's real. So for this today,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to stick with what we can verify, and

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<v Speaker 2>what we can verify is that Luigi Mangione suffered from

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<v Speaker 2>chronic back pain. He had five different books in his

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<v Speaker 2>Goodreads that he read about dealing with back pain and

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<v Speaker 2>healing from back pain, as well as other chronic health issues.

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<v Speaker 2>If he is the shooter, then we can confirm he

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<v Speaker 2>also chose to act out by targeting an insurance ceo.

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<v Speaker 2>The New York Times has stated that he was arrested

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<v Speaker 2>with a two hundred and sixty two word manifesto which

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<v Speaker 2>has since been leaked, and in that manifesto, he describes

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<v Speaker 2>the executives who run insurance companies as parasites who quote

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<v Speaker 2>continue to abuse our country for a mince profit because

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<v Speaker 2>the American public has allowed them to get away with it.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to all this, we know that Luigi came

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<v Speaker 2>from a wealthy family. His grandfather made millions running a

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<v Speaker 2>series of country clubs, nursing homes and office buildings and hospitals.

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<v Speaker 2>One of his cousins is a Republican state legislator. It

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<v Speaker 2>is unclear if Luigi had any access to the family

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<v Speaker 2>money but he was clearly financially comfortable enough to move

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<v Speaker 2>to Hawaii and pay to join an intentional community. He

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<v Speaker 2>had engineering degrees and a promising early employment history. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a man who had options. He could have been

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<v Speaker 2>almost anything he wanted to be, and the thing that

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<v Speaker 2>he ultimately chose to do with his life, after suffering

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<v Speaker 2>a debilitating series of health issues, was to shoot the

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<v Speaker 2>CEO of United Healthcare. Luigi Mangione was radicalized by pain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a well known fact that most terrorists tend to

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<v Speaker 2>be radicalized in communities. Much of my career was spent

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<v Speaker 2>watching eight chan turn from an imageboard dedicated into gamer

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<v Speaker 2>gate into a machine for generating white nationalists mass shooters.

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<v Speaker 2>These people often appeared as lone wolves to the untrained eye,

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<v Speaker 2>but they were radicalized intentionally, in and by a community.

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<v Speaker 2>Much will be made in the coming days and months

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<v Speaker 2>about Luigi's online footprints. I will go into some detail

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<v Speaker 2>about where he spent his time and how we should

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<v Speaker 2>characterize it, but I want to be clear at the

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<v Speaker 2>outset that his intellectual diet does not seem to be

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<v Speaker 2>what made him choose to take action, although it may

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<v Speaker 2>have influenced the specific kind of.

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<v Speaker 3>Action he took. Luigi followed a lot of accounts on

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<v Speaker 3>Twitter that are wildly popular with young men, like Joe Rogan.

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<v Speaker 3>He listened to Jordan Peterson and Tucker Carlson and agreed

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<v Speaker 3>with them on certain things, but he also had cogent

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<v Speaker 3>criticisms of their arguments and presentation. Here's what he said

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<v Speaker 3>about Jordan Peterson on May fourteenth. This is why Jordan

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<v Speaker 3>Peterson always bothers me. Overcomplicates everything he says aloud, wasting

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<v Speaker 3>everyone's mental bandwidth and having to decipher its. Teachers are

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<v Speaker 3>the best communicators, clear, succinct, simple language, which does kind

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<v Speaker 3>of gel with the fact that he wrote three words

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<v Speaker 3>on the bullets he used to shoot that CEO. Luigi

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<v Speaker 3>also expressed frustration with wokeness and expressed opinions common on

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<v Speaker 3>the libertarian tech influenced right, like a belief in the

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<v Speaker 3>social benefits of Christianity, without expressing popular religious beliefs himself.

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<v Speaker 3>I've found one post where he talks about how nature

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<v Speaker 3>of wares a vacuum and shares an article about how

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<v Speaker 3>Christianity's decline has unleashed terrible new gods. Some of his

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<v Speaker 3>posts took the form of memes typical to online discourse

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<v Speaker 3>of this type. But I've also read an essay that

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<v Speaker 3>he wrote when he was fifteen years old discussing how

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<v Speaker 3>Christianity persevered over Paganism in ancient Rome, and that essay

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<v Speaker 3>exhibits a long standing interest in this topic and a

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<v Speaker 3>capacity to treat it with nuance. His paper is very

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<v Speaker 3>well written, particularly for a fifteen year old, and while

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<v Speaker 3>his conclusions are highly arguable, it's not the work of

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<v Speaker 3>someone hopelessly brings washed by culture war bullshit. Luigi liked

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<v Speaker 3>to think and read and come to his own conclusions.

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<v Speaker 3>He was interested in AI, in cryptocurrency, in life extension,

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<v Speaker 3>and in a constellation of tech bro adjacent attitudes and

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<v Speaker 3>philosophies often described as the Gray Tribe. I found one

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<v Speaker 3>post where he talks about a senior speech he gave

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<v Speaker 3>on the Future quote topics ranging from conscious artificial intelligence

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<v Speaker 3>to human immortality. The term gray tribe was coined by

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<v Speaker 3>an influential rationalist blogger and psychiatrist named Scott Alexander Siskin.

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<v Speaker 3>He used it to refer to an intersection of nerd

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<v Speaker 3>culture with Silicon Valley influenced ideology descending from the online

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<v Speaker 3>rationalist movement. This community existed outside of traditional right left ideology.

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<v Speaker 3>Now I've not found any evidence that Luigi was a

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<v Speaker 3>specific fan of Scott, but he expressed appreciation for several

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<v Speaker 3>figures associated with this big Tent movement, including Peter Teel.

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<v Speaker 3>If we described Scott as representing the more liberal flank

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<v Speaker 3>of the Gray Tribe, Luigi seemed to be drawn to

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<v Speaker 3>folks closer to the right wing side of things. The

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<v Speaker 3>worst person to use this terminology would probably be Teel

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<v Speaker 3>associate Bilaji Shrinivasan, who has used Gray Tribe framework to

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<v Speaker 3>describe his ideal big tech takeover of San Francisco and

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<v Speaker 3>purging of progressives. However, I must stress that Luigi Mangione

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<v Speaker 3>never expressed any support for this end of the ideology

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<v Speaker 3>that I can find. He was a young man of

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<v Speaker 3>libertarian inclinations who worked in big tech and had ties

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<v Speaker 3>to San Francisco, but he was also clearly someone still

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<v Speaker 3>making his mind up about the world. As information about

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<v Speaker 3>him has come out, I have seen people on the

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<v Speaker 3>left who initially saw his axis heroic lament that he

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<v Speaker 3>was a bigoted tech bro. Scott Alexander has been credibly

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<v Speaker 3>described as a eugenic supporter, as have many other people

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<v Speaker 3>adjacent to the strains of rationalism and big tech ideology

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<v Speaker 3>in which Mangione dabbled. Luigi's Twitter account does indeed include

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<v Speaker 3>weird posts from his time in Japan, where he theorizes

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<v Speaker 3>on how to solve falling birth rates by panning pocket

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<v Speaker 3>pussies and video game cafe. At other points, he complains

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<v Speaker 3>about Japanese citizens acting like quote unquote NPC's but race

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<v Speaker 3>science and eugenics don't seem to have been a focus

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<v Speaker 3>for him, and I would caution anyone against being overly

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<v Speaker 3>reductive about a twenty six year old beliefs based purely

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<v Speaker 3>on a handful of posts that bear no relation to

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<v Speaker 3>his actions in the world. The evidence that we have

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<v Speaker 3>of his online footprints suggests someone who was not unmoved

0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 3>by certain arguments rooted in social justice. He expressed admiration

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.280
<v Speaker 3>for a quote from Kurt Vonnegut's slaughter House five about

0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.559
<v Speaker 3>criminalization of poverty in the United States. Quote America is

0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 3>the wealthiest nation in the world, but its people are

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 3>mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 3>To quote the American humorist Ken Hubbard, it ain't no

0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 3>disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.520
<v Speaker 3>It is, in fact a crime for an American to

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.439
<v Speaker 3>be poor. Even though America is a nation of the poor,

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.080
<v Speaker 3>every other nation has folk traditions of men who were

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 3>poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more esteemable

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 3>than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.680
<v Speaker 3>told by the American poor. Meluigi is certainly not the

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.080
<v Speaker 3>idealized leftist icons some had hoped, but he doesn't easily

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.160
<v Speaker 3>fit into any other box We've got. His interest in

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.800
<v Speaker 3>gray tribe adjacent thinkers and self help books written by

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 3>productivity hackers like Tim Ferriss is incredibly common among young men.

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Much has been made of the four st hour review.

0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 3>He gave industrial Society and its Future the manifesto of

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.960
<v Speaker 3>Ted Kazinski, But as with the rest of his media diet,

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.559
<v Speaker 3>he did not view Ted through the simple lens of

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 3>hero worship. Here's what he wrote quote he was a

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 3>violent individual, rightfully imprisoned, who maimed innocent people. While these

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 3>actions tend to be characterized as those of a crazy luttite, however,

0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 3>they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 3>political revolutionary. Now we know those words. His condemnation of

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.720
<v Speaker 3>Kazinsky maiming innocent people are not just words, because we

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 3>have seen the attack he allegedly chose to carry out.

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.600
<v Speaker 3>Not a series of bombings that killed and maimed innocent

0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.320
<v Speaker 3>people with no real power in our society, but a

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 3>surgical strike against a man that the very top of

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.000
<v Speaker 3>the system he hated, and one that caused no collateral damage.

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 3>He was capable of appreciating some of Kazinsky's conclusions, but

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 3>ultimately the quote he chose to highlight in his review

0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.839
<v Speaker 3>came not from the manifesto, but from a Reddit post

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 3>made by a guy with the user name boss Potatoess,

0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 3>who otherwise mostly commented on the grateful dead. This post

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 3>praises Kazinski for having the balls to realize that peaceful

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 3>protest has gotten us absolutely nowhere, and complains economic protest

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 3>isn't possible in the current system. As a result, violence

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 3>against those who lead us to such destruction is justified

0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 3>as self defense. Quote. These companies don't care about you,

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 3>or your kids or your grandkids. They have zero qualms

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 3>about burning down the planet for a buck, so why

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 3>should we have any qualms about burning them down to survive.

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 3>This is not the kind of radicalization pathway our media

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 3>is good at discussing or analyzing. The things Luigi read

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 3>and the people he interacted with online absolutely influenced what

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 3>he did and how. But Boss Potatoess is not some

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 3>nazi on aib Chan trying to provoke a shooting spree

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 3>for the lulls. He's a random dude angry about the

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 3>things seventy percent or more of the country is angry about,

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 3>and he's expressing a lack of faith in a peaceful

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 3>way forward. If you read this post in its entirety

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 3>as Luigi did, you can't miss the pain there, anxiety

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 3>and horror at the inevitability of climate change and the

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.400
<v Speaker 3>looming knowledge that everything good and green on this earth

0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.120
<v Speaker 3>is being fed into the bloody maw of an industry

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 3>concerned only with maximizing profit. In more ways than one,

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 3>Luigi Mangione was radicalized by pain. I know many people

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 3>who suffer with chronic pain and ongoing medical issues. I

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 3>will tell you that it is not uncommon in dark moments,

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 3>after fruitless, hours long calls about dropped medications or receiving

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 3>surprise bills for them to joke about what they'd like

0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 3>to do to the executives who run these companies. These

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 3>are jokes made in moments of despair and pain. No

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 3>one I know would ever act on them, because they

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 3>all have lives people to care for into whom they

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 3>are responsible. They would never really do anything because the

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 3>consequences to their own loved ones would be so severe.

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.120
<v Speaker 3>In the months before the shooting, Luigi had cut off

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 3>all contact with his family. He admitted this in court.

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 3>His parents eventually filed a missing's persons report in November

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 3>of this year, and we have evidence that friends tried

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 3>to contact him on his family's behalf via social media.

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.479
<v Speaker 3>As was first noted by a Twitter account, Luigi Mangione

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 3>expressed interest in the works of Paul Scalis, a tech lawyer, writer,

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 3>and prominent poster who writes about the Lindie effect, a

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 3>concept that boils down to this the only effective judge

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 3>of things is time. Scalus is popular among the set

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.480
<v Speaker 3>of people Mangione found himself drawn towards, and writes about

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 3>the wisdom of ideas from antiquity. It's not hard to

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 3>grasp what a man with an academic interest in ancient

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Rome might see in him. On December fourth, twenty twenty four,

0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 3>Paul made this post. Look, if you don't have any

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.680
<v Speaker 3>kids and you one of these guys just floating around

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 3>the big cities. You got your education, but you never

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.120
<v Speaker 3>really used it to make money. You got a dead

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 3>end back office job and a future of just working

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.679
<v Speaker 3>somewhere until you're seventy five and then dying. Go ahead

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 3>and do something. It's been suggested that this may have

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 3>influenced Luigi, and I think the timeline makes it clear

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.159
<v Speaker 3>that cannot be the case. Luigia cut off contact with

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 3>his family in most of his friends months before this.

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 3>The evidence suggests that he had planned this attack for

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.520
<v Speaker 3>quite some time. He arrived in New York City on

0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.480
<v Speaker 3>November twenty fourth, on a bus bound from Atlanta, where

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.440
<v Speaker 3>he did not reside. So I don't think this post

0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.920
<v Speaker 3>represents a piece of his radicalization journey. Nor was Scallus

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.560
<v Speaker 3>advocating for people to kill CEOs. But the situation in

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 3>mindset Scallus described does speak to a lot of young

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.440
<v Speaker 3>men like Luigi, young and educated, but without intense responsibilities

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 3>or much hope for the future. This subset of society

0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 3>has always overproduced terrorists, revolutionaries, and of course mass shooters.

0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 3>The United States has a mass shooter culture over the

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.119
<v Speaker 3>last several decades since Columbine, we have grown used to

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.520
<v Speaker 3>the idea that people who are angry and no longer

0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 3>care if they live or die will sometimes choose to

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 3>go down killing strangers. In most cases, these shootings are

0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 3>totally random, the victims chosen with no concern beyond maximum

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 3>body count and maximum attention. More recently, especially since twenty nineteen,

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:31.680
<v Speaker 3>mass shootings have become increasingly politicized. Different extremists, mostly right wing,

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 3>have used them to put theory into praxis and earned

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 3>free pr for their causes. Most people abhor these actions,

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 3>but we have grown used to the idea that other

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 3>people will use such acts as a way to spread

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.119
<v Speaker 3>messages that might otherwise get ignored. It is not coincidental

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.400
<v Speaker 3>that the white genocide conspiracy theories from Brenton Terence christ

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Church Manifesto are now mainstream talking points and conservative politics.

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 3>Luigim Mangione grew up with all of this. He would

0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 3>have come to the same conclusions about the roles shootings

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 3>play in our society as any other reasonably aware person.

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 3>What he did, was, of course, not a mass shooting,

0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 3>but the assassination, his actions afterwards, and his possession of

0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.479
<v Speaker 3>a manifesto were all clearly plotted out by someone who

0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 3>knew the social script for how this kind of thing

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.159
<v Speaker 3>goes in the USA. In the wake of this shooting,

0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.600
<v Speaker 3>every media organization commenting on it has had to grapple

0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 3>with the waves of public enthusiasm for Luigi's actions. Right

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.680
<v Speaker 3>wing media figures condemning the left for celebrating this assassination

0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.680
<v Speaker 3>have been criticized by their own readers and listeners. Insurance

0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.920
<v Speaker 3>companies have pulled down lists of their executives from the Internet.

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 3>This is because they too, understand the shooter culture of

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 3>the United States. Like everyone else, they know that any

0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 3>mass shooting that meets with massive media coverage and interest

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 3>will spawn copycats. The assassination Luigi is believed to have

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.480
<v Speaker 3>carried out was new and exciting. It demanded the public's

0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 3>attention in a way that most mass shootings don't. At

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 3>almost the same time, the United Healthcare CEO was gunned down,

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 3>a gunman walked into a Relie school near Oraville, California,

0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.680
<v Speaker 3>and shot two young children before killing himself. This shooting

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 3>drew almost no national attention. It was entirely drowned out

0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.040
<v Speaker 3>by the execution of an insurance industry CEO. The armed

0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 3>and disaffected young men who are most drawn to this

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.560
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing will not miss this fact. I believe

0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 3>Luigi Mangione was radicalized by pain. The shooters who follow

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.680
<v Speaker 3>him will all have their own reasons for what they do,

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 3>for their own journeys to that violent end, but ultimately

0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.760
<v Speaker 3>they'll do what they do because Luigi proved. It's what

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:32.439
<v Speaker 3>gets attention.

0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 4>For now, It Could Happen Here is a production of

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 4>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 4>visit our website poolzonmedia dot com, or check us out

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 4>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 4>to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.600
<v Speaker 4>Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions.

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.