Speaker 1: What up, y'all? This is your main man, Memphis Bleak
Speaker 1: right here.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Rock Solid, a production of iHeart Radio and
Speaker 2: the Black Effect Network in partnership with my guys over
Speaker 2: at Drink Champs.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you already know what it is, y'all.
Speaker 2: Yours truly am Greasy back with another exclusive episode of
Speaker 2: Rock Solid. This one right here, This that real journalism
Speaker 2: talk right here, that shit I was pretending to be.
Speaker 2: I'm about to study this guy right now. Why I'm
Speaker 2: interviewing him. I'm gonna steal something his shit and you're
Speaker 2: gonna see next episode and be like, yeah this raw
Speaker 2: Ma man Bleak, you know what I mean. I'm here. Nah,
Speaker 2: let's welcome my guy to the building. Raw Mark Man,
Speaker 2: one of the illests out here. Man with something, my guy.
Speaker 1: I'm good man. How you I can't complain?
Speaker 2: Man? Like yo, you one of the illness because not
Speaker 2: only do you do the journalism thing, but then you
Speaker 2: all saw a bar nigga down too.
Speaker 1: Like a little bit like a little bit like fucking
Speaker 1: no fucking around it up, You're a bar nigga up too, man.
Speaker 2: I respect what you've been doing everything, man, in both fields.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, thank you, love you come love,
Speaker 1: your grind you come up. Everything you've been doing, my
Speaker 1: g thank you man. But let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's do this before MTV, before Genius, before the interviews.
Speaker 2: Everything you've been doing before that hip hop you the
Speaker 2: raps you've been doing.
Speaker 1: What made you fall in love with hip hop? It
Speaker 1: wasn't a choice. It was like it was all around.
Speaker 1: Like I felt like I was boring into it, right,
Speaker 1: Like I I remember, like you know, I'm an eighties baby,
Speaker 1: so it's right coming outside, actually seeing graffiti on the train,
Speaker 1: actually like going to block parties and park jams and
Speaker 1: seeing you know, the big boom box on the street
Speaker 1: and hearing the music and remembering the adults saying, oh,
Speaker 1: that ain't real music. This ain't gonna last. But I'm
Speaker 1: six years old going to school, you know, first grade,
Speaker 1: Lotti Dottie is out talk about it and Daddy and
Speaker 1: wrapping that in the school yard, Like you had to
Speaker 1: come to school and be able to get through the
Speaker 1: whole verse, and your man had to be able to
Speaker 1: keep the beat box going right like like you know,
Speaker 1: slip rip was my first goat before I knew where
Speaker 1: the goat was mine too, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: fact storytelling, yea.
Speaker 2: Watching the videos, it was just like you can life
Speaker 2: like art depict in life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when people say when you full love it
Speaker 1: as soon as I stepped outside, as soon as my
Speaker 1: my mom's let me go out the house, because it
Speaker 1: was all around us, you know what I'm saying, right,
Speaker 1: And I knew from an early age I wanted to
Speaker 1: be involved in hip hop. And then you know, I
Speaker 1: get old enough twelve, thirteen, fourteen, and I'm copping the
Speaker 1: source and I'm reading it and I'm like, oh, we
Speaker 1: actually get to document and tell these stories or come
Speaker 1: home and watch video music Box and get to see
Speaker 1: your favorite wrapping.
Speaker 2: Daniels man, the real first one in the middle of
Speaker 2: the trenches.
Speaker 1: Yeah, documenting it man, Fab five, Freddie, Rolph McDaniel's like
Speaker 1: real pioneers. Like when I look at me as a
Speaker 1: somebody who documents the culture, I look at them, the
Speaker 1: Fab five Freddy's, the Ralph McDaniels, and then probably Angie
Speaker 1: Martinez and Sweat. My biggest niggas don't know.
Speaker 2: Fab five Freddy is a real g I'd have been
Speaker 2: in some black block meetings.
Speaker 1: With niggas like yo, were meeting up, they strapping up
Speaker 1: and he is like.
Speaker 2: Doing he was tapped in. What's the like, did you
Speaker 2: always know you wanted to be a journalist.
Speaker 1: Like nah, I didn't think it was a I think
Speaker 1: it was option anything, want no money in it, Like
Speaker 1: I always enjoy writing, And I think that's that's where
Speaker 1: the rapping part came from me. I'm twelve, thirteen years old,
Speaker 1: Penny going outside kicking my moms lunch room, kicking my
Speaker 1: moms open mics at the New Yorakan Poe Cafe, in clubs,
Speaker 1: I was probably too young to get into in front
Speaker 1: of fat beasts battling people, and that was the ship
Speaker 1: and all of that, But it's not from being the writer.
Speaker 1: And I always love to read and I love to write,
Speaker 1: but I never felt like I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna get the time, like the New York Times not
Speaker 1: gonna want me, Like I'm not gonna fit in at
Speaker 1: the New York Times. And I didn't think you could
Speaker 1: actually make a career writing and documenting hip hop like
Speaker 1: for the Source. It just hadn't occurred to me that
Speaker 1: that was a way to actually make money. If he's
Speaker 1: jamming and it kind of just happened. Like step by step,
Speaker 1: I started as a freelancer, you know, a dollar word
Speaker 1: writing album reviews. My first album review I ever wrote
Speaker 1: was for.
Speaker 2: Jada Kiss his second album, That's Crazy Man sut Jada
Speaker 2: Jadalls in New York. Yeah. Man.
Speaker 1: So so when I saw the check from that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was bigger than the check that I was getting
Speaker 1: from from doing little shows or whatever.
Speaker 2: So it just like like, hold on, I'm over here
Speaker 2: down right now.
Speaker 1: Who what next album you need me to talk about? Right? So, so,
Speaker 1: a little by little, I built up my freelance reputation
Speaker 1: and it led to a to a full time gig
Speaker 1: at Double XL. That's what I was in the game too.
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you who gave you your real
Speaker 2: first job opportunity to cover hip hop professionally.
Speaker 1: A brother by name of Tim Hotap, who I grew
Speaker 1: up with. We went in to high school together, and
Speaker 1: he started working for Complex when Complex was a magazine
Speaker 1: still and we went to school together, so he knew
Speaker 1: I could write, and he knew I just knew a
Speaker 1: ship turn about hip hop. So he was like, man,
Speaker 1: I need you to write this Jada Kiss album review? Yo,
Speaker 1: could you go up to Young because my biggest problem
Speaker 1: was like, how the fuck am I gonna get the
Speaker 1: Young That's a fact. He was like, nah, and the
Speaker 1: Scope gonna send you a car to call, gonna wait
Speaker 1: for you to take you back.
Speaker 2: I say easy, and y'all gonna pay me word, Let's
Speaker 2: do it. So we went up the D Block studio.
Speaker 2: It was the second out to Kiss of Death. So
Speaker 2: Kiss is there. I remember Kiss. I remember Jen was there.
Speaker 2: You remember Gen from one on sixth in part.
Speaker 1: Gin was nice.
Speaker 2: Jin was nice and it was nice niggas tried to
Speaker 2: front on Gin and he a free stylus.
Speaker 1: That's my guy. He was signed the Rough Riders at
Speaker 1: that time. So I remember going to the studio. Kiss
Speaker 1: was there. He plays the album and I'm hearing songs
Speaker 1: like why for the first time, like the first time
Speaker 1: I or why I'm getting chills.
Speaker 2: I'm like this this is a crazy record.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, did that, wrote up the album review,
Speaker 1: they published it in Complex and and and they sent
Speaker 1: me a check. After that, boy magazine called was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: can you do this ghost face review? And the source
Speaker 1: call was like yo, we heard you, was the Yo,
Speaker 1: can you write for us? So I was free. I
Speaker 1: was working in the mail room in the city crazy.
Speaker 1: I tell you a funnier story, working in a place
Speaker 1: called Delia's. It's a course center, a mail room. A
Speaker 1: lot of underground New York rap immortal technique used to
Speaker 1: work there. Poisoned pain used to work damn. Back in
Speaker 1: the day. A Mil used to be our supervisor. Yo,
Speaker 1: she was real life. Mill was the customer service supervisor.
Speaker 1: It was a spot in New York. Like everybody in
Speaker 1: New York work. She definitely let your niggas do whatever
Speaker 1: because a Mil was the she was always chill. So
Speaker 1: A Mill used to work there, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden that she wasn't working it no more. It
Speaker 1: was like that, why I'm no a mail We turned
Speaker 1: on MTV. She with y'all. Yo. For me, that was
Speaker 1: some of the biggest motivation, just because it's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: she was just here and now she's there, and it showed, oh,
Speaker 1: this this is possible, like we could get into this game.
Speaker 1: Like her voice was ill.
Speaker 2: But yo, you're bringing up a mail break back some
Speaker 2: stories because it was supposed to be a group. If
Speaker 2: you remember, you know why Major Coins never got signed
Speaker 2: and it just was a mill because they couldn't dance
Speaker 2: and rap at the scene. You gotta figure out out.
Speaker 2: You gotta get some choreography. They had in the studio like, yo,
Speaker 2: were about to do this show. Let's see how y'all
Speaker 2: gonna do it. So they playing the music like yo,
Speaker 2: y'all gotta dance and ad live behind a male verse
Speaker 2: or can I get up?
Speaker 1: It was over front.
Speaker 2: They had to get them there. The choreography. That is
Speaker 2: the story of major Coins. That's that's why I just
Speaker 2: was a mill because she got it together.
Speaker 1: But but you know, I tell that story on some
Speaker 1: man give her her props just being a dude from Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: like you know, like like I'm from flat But so
Speaker 1: we had special ed.
Speaker 2: But it's not like I knew special Ed. I was
Speaker 2: a kid and whatever. But dog with a solid gold ball,
Speaker 2: nobody knew what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So that was that was the first one though that
Speaker 1: it was like really close, that it was right there
Speaker 1: and you know, just start kicking in the door a
Speaker 1: little bit and seeing that this thing is possible. Motivation. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Then MTV News one of the places, you know, fans
Speaker 2: get to hear all the stories all that shit. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean, what made that era of music
Speaker 2: journalism so special for you?
Speaker 1: For me, it was that's when I went from a
Speaker 1: writer because I was in the magazine you might just
Speaker 1: see my name, you see my boto line. And I
Speaker 1: got to MTV to write. So it's digital. So so
Speaker 1: now the frequency instead of me writing in the magazine
Speaker 1: that comes out once a month, when the MT behind me,
Speaker 1: they said, yo, we want you to write. You gotta
Speaker 1: write four articles a day. Oh I was writing. It
Speaker 1: was just I was like the end of I could
Speaker 1: write in and put it out right in and putting
Speaker 1: it out seven joints to day. I'm about two weeks there.
Speaker 1: And I mean, sway shout out.
Speaker 2: One of the coolest, coolest DJs ever in the world.
Speaker 1: Man just wanted one of the realist dudes. And he
Speaker 1: was like, yo, I like you. He was just like, yo,
Speaker 1: you you're gonna have a shot to be on camera
Speaker 1: like and and I think I think you could be
Speaker 1: like a personality in this game. Is that something you want?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I tried. He was like, I
Speaker 1: just you know, stay closed, pay attention. Can't tell you
Speaker 1: when I can't tell you how, but you're gonna get
Speaker 1: a shot, and so the MTV the thing that made
Speaker 1: a specialist one. I'm working right beside the guy that
Speaker 1: I looked up to and this thing with Sway, and
Speaker 1: he's talking about he gonna give me a shot, And
Speaker 1: it changed my career. It took me from a right
Speaker 1: there to a personality to more of a known journalist.
Speaker 1: So it kind of just shed more light on me
Speaker 1: and I got to learn production and and and how
Speaker 1: cameras work and all of that. So on TV was
Speaker 1: a special time.
Speaker 2: Yo, Sway, the realists man, Sway Water, the beanie whatever
Speaker 2: he had he wore in the White House.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never saw him with listen, man, we don't.
Speaker 1: We don't been on trips side of town. We done.
Speaker 1: I never seen Sway without the crown man at the
Speaker 1: White House. But that's what's dope about hip hop, right,
Speaker 1: It's like, Yo, we could and I remember that that
Speaker 1: I wanted to go. But again I'm I'm I'm a
Speaker 1: little homie. So not everybody everybody shout out ben Ney
Speaker 1: the Butcher body. Everybody can't. But but Sway still called
Speaker 1: me that. Yo. Listen man, we're going to the White
Speaker 1: House like the night before. Yo, if you got a
Speaker 1: question let me know, let me know, shoot me the
Speaker 1: question and I working. So he asked one of my
Speaker 1: questions to the president. So I felt like we was
Speaker 1: both there right, but he still made me a part
Speaker 1: of it without being a part of it. And what
Speaker 1: that showed me though, is like, Yo, we could show
Speaker 1: up anywhere as authentic selves being a hip hop That's right,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I know you see it
Speaker 1: with with like whole in these ballrooms, like walking as whole.
Speaker 2: That's one thing he preached, man, you walking as yourself.
Speaker 2: You don't change for the room. You changed the room.
Speaker 1: So that that's what Sway showed me.
Speaker 2: But you interviewed everybody man from J Kendrake, Nas Drake, everybody.
Speaker 2: Is it one interview to you that you just stands
Speaker 2: out above all?
Speaker 1: Oh? Man? Probably my Kendrick interview twenty fifteen Kendrick to
Speaker 1: Pimp a Butterfly interview. Because we were just talking. I
Speaker 1: didn't even know that interview was good. Like when we
Speaker 1: walked out, people was like how they go. I was like,
Speaker 1: because it was just two dudes talk, I couldn't even gauge.
Speaker 1: I know I enjoyed the conversation. I ain't know how
Speaker 1: it's going to resonate and that that that's the interview
Speaker 1: that people still come up to me and they have
Speaker 1: like an emotional connection to it because we I mean,
Speaker 1: we were talking about music and to Pimper Butterfly, but we
Speaker 1: was talking about real shit like leaving the hood survivors guilt, right,
Speaker 1: like being able to tour the world and back home
Speaker 1: your peoples are still going through the same thing, and
Speaker 1: you want to take everything you learn about the world
Speaker 1: and give it to your people back home, but are
Speaker 1: they ready for the message and stuff. So it was
Speaker 1: a real deep conversation, in real life conversation, and that's
Speaker 1: the one that even though these years later, people still
Speaker 1: come up to me and was like, nah, like that
Speaker 1: was the one.
Speaker 2: And now Kendrick or everybody man like between j Drake, Kendrake,
Speaker 2: all them niggas is dominating and they feel respectively great
Speaker 2: at what they do. Man, Like you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like that Drake and Kendrick shit does shift the hip
Speaker 2: hop for me.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like the Godfather's scene when he's like, yo, man,
Speaker 1: it's like you need this every ten years. It clears
Speaker 1: the bad blood, Like you know, I think it's dope
Speaker 1: that because hip hop is competitive, right, and it's always been.
Speaker 1: I think it's dope that we see Drake being able
Speaker 1: to bounce back, be able to drop an album like Iceman,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, he ain't done, Like what happened happened, but.
Speaker 2: It's still hits to be mad exactly. So so you know,
Speaker 2: get back to the let's get back to the schedule.
Speaker 1: Program, right And look, I know, I know it was
Speaker 1: a lot more personal for them and they and they
Speaker 1: going through it, but but but I'm happy to see
Speaker 1: that they still get to him carry hip hop on.
Speaker 1: Drake still get to be Drake, Kendrick still get to
Speaker 1: be Kendrick. We saw something that entertained us. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know how entertaining a wife it was going
Speaker 1: through it, but it is.
Speaker 2: Man, We've been in the middle of a war like
Speaker 2: that with nas, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And now and now you know, he came out on
Speaker 1: Yankee Stadium with a Darren Strawberry justice what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that'll happened, and I don't see
Speaker 1: that happening, But did you ever think that would happen
Speaker 1: in the in the midst of it, in the heat
Speaker 1: of it, did you ever think Jane Knives wouldever reconcile?
Speaker 2: Honestly, no, yeah, no, it was just as disrespectful as that.
Speaker 2: I believe so like, and I would have never I
Speaker 2: would have never thought, Ja'll be ad libbit for Knaves
Speaker 2: and knadser be ad libit for Jay and they'll be
Speaker 2: rhyming over each other beat and Yankee Stadium crazy. That's
Speaker 2: that's not even something you could draw up and be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is gonna happen one day. I picture it like
Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium was just so surreal for me in general,
Speaker 2: just because remember thirty years ago, reasonable doubt drop. Thirty
Speaker 2: three years ago, we was in a basement of Clark
Speaker 2: Kent House, rest in peace.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And Jay ripped a piece of paper out of a
Speaker 2: notebook and gave it to me and said, as fast
Speaker 2: as you remember that papers, as fast as your life change,
Speaker 2: here we are as the results of life changing from
Speaker 2: that sheet of paper. It's like so standing there in
Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium, it hit me like last thirty years, everything
Speaker 2: we've been through, everything is just hit me like life flash,
Speaker 2: Like wow, that's important, man, because like hip hop is
Speaker 2: more than just all wins, right, Like like it is,
Speaker 2: it's the journey to me, Like I'm at the same
Speaker 2: way you. So you watching Yankee Stadium, but you remember
Speaker 2: Clark's Basement where it started. I'm watching this guy up
Speaker 2: there and watching y'all up there, and I'm a stretching
Speaker 2: by beat.
Speaker 1: Okay. I used to listen to we all did, like
Speaker 1: the Big L freestyle. I was listening live that night
Speaker 1: when it happened and going back to school the next day, Yoe,
Speaker 1: and and I'm like, I remember, I can't get with that,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I remember the original.
Speaker 2: With that in my life, shooting that video.
Speaker 1: On Marshie right, and so it's like, yo, from that
Speaker 1: to this. Even I asked Greul about this because even
Speaker 1: in one of the end of Louse, they was playing
Speaker 1: the Milk Won't Beat the beat that him a Big
Speaker 1: L rapped over, and I thought he was gonna come
Speaker 1: out and perform that. I said, Yankee Stadium, do these,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a dope nod to the jazz,
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. So we could celebrate the wins,
Speaker 1: but you still got to celebrate where it started. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying all the time, you can never
Speaker 1: forget where it started.
Speaker 2: Never, man, because that's why I always feel like the
Speaker 2: journey make you enjoy the win even more like, because
Speaker 2: the journey it's worth it, man, at the end of
Speaker 2: the day's worth it all the nose, all the doors closed,
Speaker 2: all the U turns, all the We can't carry that
Speaker 2: album in this store all the when I'm riding on
Speaker 2: top of the Humma and myth Bleakers MTV. We can't
Speaker 2: show that do influencing kids. All of that matters to
Speaker 2: where we are today. Like I love it man, like
Speaker 2: it's just like you. Like it leads to my next question,
Speaker 2: like you spend years document and hip hop bro like
Speaker 2: making it Like what have artists taught you about the
Speaker 2: culture that fans rarely get to see?
Speaker 1: Hmm, that's a good question. That is more than just entertainment.
Speaker 1: And you know, look, I knew that because at the
Speaker 1: same time, though I document it and I'm known for
Speaker 1: documenting it, like I come from it. We come from
Speaker 1: the same. I'm from Flatbush, Brooklyn like me, and you know,
Speaker 1: VOP I grew up around the corner Germ around the
Speaker 1: corner too, grew up around the corner, like, so I'm
Speaker 1: from you know what I'm saying. I might have just
Speaker 1: went a different route than some of the people on
Speaker 1: my block, but but we're all doing it. So it's
Speaker 1: more than just entertainment. I think, especially now when this
Speaker 1: era of you know, social media, people feel like fans
Speaker 1: feel like they could say anything. A lot of people
Speaker 1: talk real crazy and feel like they could say anything.
Speaker 1: But these are people. Yes, these are entertainers, but these
Speaker 1: are people's real lives. And when I documented, you know,
Speaker 1: I strive to document the real Like where did this
Speaker 1: come from? What made you write that? What's the real
Speaker 1: story behind it? Yes, it's dope to us, but then
Speaker 1: nine nine, ten times, ten times came from pain. That's
Speaker 1: the fact. So let's not lose that fact. We ain't
Speaker 1: up here just singing and dance.
Speaker 2: So we got real story to tell, and we got
Speaker 2: to tell these stories the right way because you've seen
Speaker 2: I don't know, if you, Pete, all the work that
Speaker 2: we did at MTV. MTV took all their content offline,
Speaker 2: or all the articles that that I've written that Shah
Speaker 2: he ain't read, has written that that that all the
Speaker 2: interviews that Sway has done Jason Rodriguez like all, it
Speaker 2: don't exist online anymore.
Speaker 1: Way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that and look, I got interviews with with
Speaker 2: Nipsey Hustle.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, one hundred dollars mixed.
Speaker 2: Well guess what man, rest in Piece, Nips, Nip ain't
Speaker 2: here to tell the story no more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. I got interviews with Mac Miller, rest
Speaker 1: in Piece.
Speaker 2: And Piece mc miller. I got a song with mac
Speaker 2: Miller that we never got the job. I don't even
Speaker 2: have it. He told me about it. He told me
Speaker 2: about it. That was my dog for real, the god yeah.
Speaker 1: World, I'm so sick.
Speaker 2: I ain't get a copy. I'm gonna see if I'm
Speaker 2: I'm gonna reach out. I gonna se if I find
Speaker 2: if I could find it.
Speaker 1: But but you know, when you think about the ones
Speaker 1: who want here anymore, especially everybody, but the ones like
Speaker 1: nipp is not here to tell the story. But we
Speaker 1: documented the time in Nip's career, we documented the time
Speaker 1: in Macnella's career, and now it's offline. I get it.
Speaker 1: MCV is a business. For whatever reason, they took it offline.
Speaker 1: But when I'm documenting, I need these to live forever.
Speaker 1: I need the records to lift forever. These are records
Speaker 1: of history. This is not just entertainment. This is our life.
Speaker 1: This is our culture, man, So we got documented the
Speaker 1: right way. That's a fact. Man.
Speaker 2: Like, do you think hip hop does a good job
Speaker 2: at preserving its own history or we too quick to
Speaker 2: just move on to the next big thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's getting scary. I think we were really
Speaker 1: good at it. I think we had institutions, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, we had pillars and this be
Speaker 1: it people, be it, the Source, the Double Excels, the
Speaker 1: Angie Martinez is of the World, the Sways.
Speaker 2: All the legends. But but we we losing it now.
Speaker 2: I think it's just becoming now the topic of the day.
Speaker 2: I think there's a danger. I think there's a real
Speaker 2: danger in this moment if we don't take this ship seriously.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, how's the rest of the world gonna take
Speaker 2: us seriously? I think we shoot out our own a lot.
Speaker 2: It's almost like, but this is our culture. Been in
Speaker 2: the culture and how it's in media, right, but not
Speaker 2: And that's not in media has always been critical.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say we can't be critical, that
Speaker 1: we can each other. Yeah, man, but it's personal, bro,
Speaker 1: people and be like it's getting personal.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like like a lot of journalism has
Speaker 2: changed now.
Speaker 1: Like when I was.
Speaker 2: Coming up, you know, the number one target on the
Speaker 2: headline for US was Wendy Williams. Right, it knew Wendy.
Speaker 2: You get that Wendy Williams interview, You better go up
Speaker 2: there with your shield up, your face guard. You better
Speaker 2: be ready because she's coming out swinging Miss Jones starring
Speaker 2: buck Wow, fucking cosmic, cav fucking sometimes fleck sometimes enough
Speaker 2: them niggas even dropped that bomb, yo, so we heard,
Speaker 2: and you gotta be ready. And I just like a
Speaker 2: lot of people disagree with the academics, the Charleston White,
Speaker 2: the whack one hundreds.
Speaker 1: Me. I ain't gonna say I'm a fan and not
Speaker 1: a fan.
Speaker 2: I'm too busy, I don't tune in, but I know
Speaker 2: them as media personalities. I feel like that disruption is
Speaker 2: needed because everything can't be rosy, bro, we can't.
Speaker 1: Just be Somebody gotta come through them, like, man, y'all,
Speaker 1: nigga's bitch.
Speaker 2: Ask somebody gotta do it.
Speaker 1: And to me a lot, Wendy Williams is really a
Speaker 1: pioneer and that in that style, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of what we see today comes off of the Wendy
Speaker 1: Williams Tree of influence, right, and it's entertaining that one
Speaker 1: thing is listen. One thing. Absolutely, you have to ask
Speaker 1: the questions that the people want to know. Yes, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, because because where we have to
Speaker 1: be loyal to the audience. So you gotta ask the
Speaker 1: questions that the people want to know. People have to
Speaker 1: be challenged, you cold criticized. For sure. I think there's
Speaker 1: an excessive tearing down going on, but the fact is
Speaker 1: it's also entertainment. And for me, you just need the balance.
Speaker 1: It can't be too much of one thing and not
Speaker 1: the other. To me, you need the balance this whole
Speaker 1: thing to work.
Speaker 2: I think the tearing down part truthfully comes from everybody
Speaker 2: say I'm one hunding, I keep it real, I'm the
Speaker 2: real list this. So now it's these guys job and
Speaker 2: media to be like, no, you not, you did this,
Speaker 2: we saw this, we have this information Mattervember back of
Speaker 2: the day. It's to be like call, oh, they're being
Speaker 2: the ear on the news. We getting in this live
Speaker 2: information breaking news coming in. They just said the senator
Speaker 2: did this.
Speaker 1: Now it was just and music.
Speaker 2: They can make it records like yeah, I'm the trap lord,
Speaker 2: and then here come whack one honey like this the PaperWorks.
Speaker 1: You told I got the big work for me. It
Speaker 1: got It got to be rooted in the truth, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. The truth always gonna come to light.
Speaker 1: Fat you know what I'm saying. And you can't run
Speaker 1: a high for your truth. You could dip and dodge
Speaker 1: five years ten, it might be twenty years down the line.
Speaker 1: The thing that you did is always gonna come to light.
Speaker 1: So I have no problem with it as long as
Speaker 1: it's rooted in truth and and and and respect for
Speaker 1: the audience. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, it's no different than Wendy
Speaker 2: Williams because she was gunning. I never forget my first
Speaker 2: interview with her as soon as I sat down.
Speaker 1: So myphis bleek.
Speaker 2: They say, you fucking the in terms at Rockefeller's Like
Speaker 2: what like what am I supposed to say here?
Speaker 1: Like who told you that? It's like it might have
Speaker 1: been true to it. It's like, yo, hold more, check
Speaker 1: my two way. She got my sh tap like like
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm saying. So, I mean, I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I think it's was ever a time I'm outside of
Speaker 1: that Wendy Williams sound, was ever a time for you
Speaker 1: when when you was under the tie, never.
Speaker 2: Felt like you had Nah, I never was under that
Speaker 2: because you know why, I think so, Bro, I think
Speaker 2: I dodged it because before social media, you was able
Speaker 2: to hide.
Speaker 1: Your personal life.
Speaker 2: You know, people only when they read the sorts, read
Speaker 2: the Vibe, read the double XL.
Speaker 1: Saw bt MTV. Then they saw you like they didn't
Speaker 1: really and they came to the meet and greet. That
Speaker 1: was it. They didn't know. Once all of that stopped,
Speaker 1: you could go home and be a farmer. No one knew.
Speaker 2: They ain't know if I had goats at the crib
Speaker 2: herding cows, like you know what I mean. So today,
Speaker 2: I feel like with social media and the fan bases
Speaker 2: that we carry and the responsibility, people want to see
Speaker 2: you talk about it. They want to see they want
Speaker 2: to go to that page and be like, oh this dude,
Speaker 2: say he be in the chateau, Show me pictures of
Speaker 2: you in the chateau. Don't just tell me about it,
Speaker 2: show me. And a lot of I feel like, that's
Speaker 2: why a lot of these people get attacked because they're
Speaker 2: not living their truth. It's all imitating to get a check.
Speaker 2: So and now it's the media job to point out
Speaker 2: the immitection.
Speaker 1: That's just do you think it? Do you think there's
Speaker 1: a line that's too far?
Speaker 2: I think so when it gets interjected into the beefs
Speaker 2: like wins, because you know, now these kids is in gangs.
Speaker 2: So when you inserting into different sets in different gangs
Speaker 2: and provoking one against the other or even just antagonizing
Speaker 2: one side against the other, then I feel like it's
Speaker 2: a responsibility us as adults we have for the youth,
Speaker 2: did not.
Speaker 1: Lead them that way. So you know, I'm a genius
Speaker 1: as well, and I'm probably telling and we have a
Speaker 1: show called Verified Yellow Background where you break down lyrics
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not gonna say who out of respect,
Speaker 1: but there was these two drill artists from Brooklyn who
Speaker 1: do not live that far from each other, Like if
Speaker 1: you know Brooklyn, you know the streets, you like, it's
Speaker 1: like a ten block radius, and you know in New
Speaker 1: York ten blocks is nothing, and you know they was
Speaker 1: going at it on record. Mm hmm. But we also
Speaker 1: knew how we loo can get and one of them
Speaker 1: wanted to come to Genius to break down one of
Speaker 1: the disc records and as much traffic as that will
Speaker 1: bring in, as much as people wanted to see that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, I can't let you do that. As
Speaker 1: a fact, you could come and break down the girls single,
Speaker 1: the song for the Girls, We're not gonna have you
Speaker 1: because then for a couple of reasons. For one is
Speaker 1: whatever you say is gonna spur something on now, then
Speaker 1: the next one, I want to come up. It's gonna
Speaker 1: open that door, and I don't want to be exhibit
Speaker 1: A in the court right when shit go down. Like so, man,
Speaker 1: if we could die this back, I'd rather help dial
Speaker 1: it back and pushing forward. I'm glad we haven't it.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you here that I have this conversation with,
Speaker 2: because I feel like if you're gonna put the responsibility
Speaker 2: on the media not to interject, antagonize, or provoke, then
Speaker 2: the artist is blatantly to admitting crimes over beats.
Speaker 1: It's insane. So like, you can't be that at me
Speaker 1: that you said you shot Ray Ray right. You got
Speaker 1: reporting on Ray Ray right. But but it do feel man,
Speaker 1: I see I see some of these channels, and yes,
Speaker 1: but we also speaking cold right. First of all, a
Speaker 1: lot of the code is detective.
Speaker 2: These niggas that secret the coder is it was writing there,
Speaker 2: niggas that rode all over.
Speaker 1: We see what you're doing hundred percent facts and the
Speaker 1: responsibilities on the artists. But there's some of these channels.
Speaker 1: There's some of these that I know. They don't come
Speaker 1: from the culture. I know that, and when I talk
Speaker 1: about come from the culture. Also have to deal with
Speaker 1: the circumstances when somebody gets when you got to bury somebody,
Speaker 1: or deal with the circumstances of the get back, but
Speaker 1: deal with the circumstances of a brother or a son
Speaker 1: or a cousin doing life in jail. But sit from
Speaker 1: the comfort of your on YouTube at the remote location
Speaker 1: playing who done it? And ultimately it's on the artist.
Speaker 1: But there's a point of of of of of watching
Speaker 1: that that don't sit right with me. It feel like voyeurism.
Speaker 1: It feel like the people who go to the safari
Speaker 1: and you safe enough in your cart on the safari
Speaker 1: to watch the lines and watch everybody do what they do,
Speaker 1: but you don't got to deal with none of the
Speaker 1: circumstances and none of the danger of that shit, and
Speaker 1: that shit was me the wrong way. But they not
Speaker 1: out the window with sticks poking the animals.
Speaker 2: At the safari some of them too, you be seeing
Speaker 2: them brady ass kids, like don't be animal, you know, gummy.
Speaker 1: Bears at the shit. It's just look and maybe I'm wrong, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to be wrong, But there's a part
Speaker 1: of that that don't sit right with me, Like, like again,
Speaker 1: I do feel a responsibility not to protect nobody or
Speaker 1: not to save nobody, but it's real circumstances that come
Speaker 1: with this shit. And me as somebody who is you know,
Speaker 1: about to be forty seven years old, Like I know better,
Speaker 1: so I got to do better. Hey man, yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: don't hey, don't break down that song break down the
Speaker 1: other one, the one you wrote a your girl break
Speaker 1: down that one. You can say that one. You actually
Speaker 1: should have kept that one in the studio. But because
Speaker 1: it's different too, it's not it's not Carus versus Shan anymore. Yo.
Speaker 1: But it was drama back then.
Speaker 2: They was running in the club taking niggas, Mike's kicking
Speaker 2: them off the stage, and Yo, I heard I don't
Speaker 2: know as a shorty you read in the magazine Share
Speaker 2: had a show care rests.
Speaker 1: One of them bum rushed the show.
Speaker 2: Threw him and his DJ off the stage, flipped them up,
Speaker 2: took the mic and continued the show.
Speaker 1: Now it's ka res one show that where I'm from,
Speaker 1: that's called smoke. I didn't hear that one about Shan,
Speaker 1: but he had that reputation.
Speaker 2: I remember, say you have a reputation. He did it
Speaker 2: with PM done. How bad mc shann don't come get
Speaker 2: at me, know your o g legend, I got no respect?
Speaker 2: Has shit fucked up? But I knew it was somebody
Speaker 2: said off the stage, took the mic and took over
Speaker 2: the ship.
Speaker 1: Today PM done when it came and shot the whole
Speaker 1: club up. Yeah, it's just it's it's a different time though, man.
Speaker 1: Like like back then you might just had to like
Speaker 1: knuckle down, that's it, Like you just had to shoot.
Speaker 1: It might not even be shoot the fair one like
Speaker 1: you might get jumped, you know what I'm saying. But
Speaker 1: that that not that we wasn't getting shot and killed
Speaker 1: back then. But it's just way different now.
Speaker 2: Bro. It's because these kids is in real crimes, bro,
Speaker 2: real crime you cannot, like I cannot get on this
Speaker 2: platform and literally identify somebody in Marcy committing a crime,
Speaker 2: did a crime, or I know about a crime, or
Speaker 2: I did something to them purposely, like yeah, yeah, Ray,
Speaker 2: you know when I seen you, we slapped you on
Speaker 2: Murder Avenue last week. What you think when he see
Speaker 2: this interview? He looking for me now, so you can't
Speaker 2: be shot when he clipped me.
Speaker 1: God voted.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing in music life streaks everything. I
Speaker 2: feel like we sit there in the tank by the
Speaker 2: bullshit and then be shocked when the ring happened.
Speaker 1: What you thought was the end of this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now you're right, You're right. I just I just feel
Speaker 1: a way when it's not us. We shouldn't be perpetual
Speaker 1: in neither, but especially when it's not us out there
Speaker 1: perpetuating the ship. I feel the way I'm looking at
Speaker 1: you because I'm like, what's your investment in this ship?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that you're taking a whole
Speaker 1: lot of people down with your commentary. Who did you
Speaker 1: ever lift up? You know what I'm saying. It's give
Speaker 1: and tape. You know what I'm saying. You gotta I
Speaker 1: feel like for shit.
Speaker 2: For every bad deed I ever did, it's forty good
Speaker 2: ones that could replace that one.
Speaker 1: So and you hope at the end that it means
Speaker 1: that got roll over that.
Speaker 2: It's like, do you think because you're an artist and
Speaker 2: a journalist, that's what keeps the balance between both for
Speaker 2: you a little bit?
Speaker 1: I remember when I was I was at Double Excel
Speaker 1: shout the day, twe Thomas, that's my gosh, my guy man.
Speaker 1: He was an editor in chief at the time, and
Speaker 1: I was working at Double XL. But I was also
Speaker 1: pointing out music on the blows like now right to
Speaker 1: no boys, and all I would do I not right,
Speaker 1: love everybody, low key on smash all of that, and
Speaker 1: what I would do when I would take rap of pictures,
Speaker 1: I just take on my glasses. Was like Superman. And
Speaker 1: for years nobody noticed. But I worked in the magazine,
Speaker 1: so not a lot of people know my face. So
Speaker 1: one day they called me into his office, he the
Speaker 1: editor in chief, and he turned his computer around.
Speaker 2: I thought I was in trouble. He said, he said,
Speaker 2: this is you and it was me on that right yo,
Speaker 2: chill And I said yeah. He was like, yo, this
Speaker 2: ship is dope. I ain't gonna front you get busy,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: But but he had told me, he said, that's it,
Speaker 1: he said, he said, that's why you're able to ask
Speaker 1: the right questions. That's why disrespected even if they don't
Speaker 1: know it. He was like, at least, he was like,
Speaker 1: you're not as big as the artist that you interview,
Speaker 1: but you know what it's like to go into that
Speaker 1: studio when an I did. That's right, something tangible. You
Speaker 1: know what it's like to put like your feeling or
Speaker 1: your life on the record. He said, that's why artists
Speaker 1: fuck with you. That's right. And I had never thought
Speaker 1: about it like that before. But he was like, you
Speaker 1: relate maybe better than the friend as somebody who's never
Speaker 1: been through it before.
Speaker 2: Of course, man, it's like the guy who becomes the
Speaker 2: lawyer who once was the drug that he knows what
Speaker 2: it is, he gonna fight the hardest for you.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Anybody that changed their life for around, that been through
Speaker 2: the storm knows what it is, no matter what good
Speaker 2: or bad. Then if you know the ins and out,
Speaker 2: you're gonna respect the craft and respect the role.
Speaker 1: And that's why Genius was such a perfect fit when
Speaker 1: I moved over to Genius at that point in my career,
Speaker 1: because it was like lyrics like like like yo, somebody
Speaker 1: took a time time to write yo, let's not gloss
Speaker 1: over that line like yo, that's a double yo, that's
Speaker 1: a triple. No, that just don't mean one thing. Hold on,
Speaker 1: let's start right there. We're not just gonna breeze past
Speaker 1: that because because you know what it takes.
Speaker 2: That's what I was about to say, Like you got
Speaker 2: that over had juniors say, I got the what is
Speaker 2: that the Sprite's Living track?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: The cultural authority Pane fifty songs, Shape and hip Hop
Speaker 2: talk about that. That that was big for me because
Speaker 2: to do that campaign with Sprite again, it's just participating
Speaker 2: in it, right, like I remember coming up and again
Speaker 2: right we from that everywhere they was like, yo, hip hop's.
Speaker 1: Not gonna last. It's just a fast You couldn't get
Speaker 1: a brand sponsorship, but I remember not Sprite, but I
Speaker 1: really had full logo. But if you remember the Sprite
Speaker 1: back in the day, like Canning play had one, Heavy
Speaker 1: d had one, didn't pray, couldn't play was the they
Speaker 1: had the movies my favorite SPIKEE commercial coming up. I
Speaker 1: don't know even remember this one was it was Nas
Speaker 1: and Ez on the Stoop and they recreated the scene
Speaker 1: from Wild Style. I remember the Double Trouble, his little
Speaker 1: story that must be told about two and I was like, so,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they get it. And now to be
Speaker 1: at this point in my career, like participating in a
Speaker 1: Sprike campaign with Genius with Angie Martinez on the panel
Speaker 1: to discuss like fifty like legendary hip hop songs and
Speaker 1: lifted up like like so so and it's hits like
Speaker 1: Juicy is on the list. I to talk about Juicy,
Speaker 1: you gotta talk about pop California love. That's a fact.
Speaker 1: But we also on the list is most definite quality
Speaker 1: black Star you know, one, two, three, most definitile lib quality.
Speaker 1: So it runs the gamut mos def is just fucking
Speaker 1: dope broke. Everybody know that. Brooklynn, Yeah, Queen Land for you,
Speaker 1: And I t why like like like that was so
Speaker 1: ill of a record because that did so much for
Speaker 1: women and hip hop. That wasn't a woman walking in
Speaker 1: like hey, hey, don't call me a bit. No, she
Speaker 1: came who you calling a bit?
Speaker 2: Right? Like?
Speaker 1: And you had and she had that look like you
Speaker 1: I punched them dead in his eyes like So, so
Speaker 1: these are records and I can't tell you where that
Speaker 1: landed on Billboard. I can't tell you if that's double platinum, triple.
Speaker 2: Platinum down you just treating platinum in our house. I
Speaker 2: know what it did, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So, so we had that type of conversation on the
Speaker 1: panel and with Sprite and and you know, with Genius,
Speaker 1: and I was just like glad to be a part
Speaker 1: of it. It's like a feather in my cap for
Speaker 1: my career. That's dope.
Speaker 2: And looking at hand where you see Genius continuing to
Speaker 2: grow both as a media company and the culture institution.
Speaker 1: There's something new coming for the company. You know. Look,
Speaker 1: I think it's about to We want to help all
Speaker 1: this navigate their careers and and and and their creative process.
Speaker 1: It's a lot being said about AI right now and
Speaker 1: how it's using the music, but you know, ultimately just
Speaker 1: go back to the Genius thing. It's it's not on us.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not Genius's place to define that right now. Again,
Speaker 1: the artists and the audience to find that. But but
Speaker 1: right now we're looking at building tools to help artists
Speaker 1: with their careers, not to help them create, but to
Speaker 1: heal with their career and enhance their careers. And and
Speaker 1: because it takes a lot to be an artist. It's
Speaker 1: not just the studio. It's not just writing, like and recording.
Speaker 1: It's it's you got to make sure your business is right.
Speaker 1: You got to make sure your team is on point.
Speaker 1: You got to make sure it's a lot that going
Speaker 1: independent now, right, like the rollout, Like.
Speaker 2: As a kid, that's so weird that I'm glad you
Speaker 2: say that because as a kid, when Rockefeller first started,
Speaker 2: it was just writing.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until Rockefeller ended that it.
Speaker 2: Was like, oh shit, I gotta go talk to him,
Speaker 2: talk to them, meet with her drawdis playing up. Before
Speaker 2: it was just go to the studio, call guru or
Speaker 2: Pat Villa, Brian Stanley, one of the engineers that was
Speaker 2: on deck record, Bobby Dash, come in there, take that record.
Speaker 1: And we just had a team. You got a squad.
Speaker 1: Like but when you when you right, you started the warehouse,
Speaker 1: oh ship and that now now you gotta be Google.
Speaker 1: You gotta be Bobby Dash. You gotta be Oh, you
Speaker 1: gotta be you know when I shot at warehouse.
Speaker 2: I called Jay and told them because I found out
Speaker 2: what it was the package to roll out of record
Speaker 2: to radio and in that promotion, paying the person of
Speaker 2: the promoted the rep, all of that all wrapped up
Speaker 2: in the nice bowl. It was a nice price tag.
Speaker 2: And I was like, this is how much you cost
Speaker 2: to put a record out and they like, yeah, that's today.
Speaker 2: Back in the day, it was double that. Wow, my nigga.
Speaker 2: I had the call hole like, yo, bro, you used
Speaker 2: to spend this to put like even on records that
Speaker 2: didn't work.
Speaker 1: It was like yeah. It was like, nigga, you better
Speaker 1: than me because I'd have never did that.
Speaker 2: I love you for betting on me like that, nigga,
Speaker 2: because I don't think I gotta bet on myself a
Speaker 2: hundred rags. I got the money. We're talking about make more.
Speaker 2: We're good, We're gonna vest this is something we did.
Speaker 2: Like music ain't guaranteed. Bro. You can sit there all
Speaker 2: you want and think in your mind this is it.
Speaker 2: And you mean to tell me were gonna bet a
Speaker 2: hundo on on the maybe, Nah, I need something more
Speaker 2: short than that fuck that they about to put me.
Speaker 2: When Marf the Stewart with because I need the inside
Speaker 2: trading numbers.
Speaker 1: But you came out, but you made it way. Look
Speaker 1: I don't know, I ain't in your pocket. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the number was. But but y'all, y'all, y'all
Speaker 1: made an impact.
Speaker 2: No, definitely, but just to even take that gamble, Like,
Speaker 2: that's why I feel like certain artists when they get
Speaker 2: that deal, they think they made it, and it's like, bro,
Speaker 2: the journey just begins now, and it's like, you got
Speaker 2: somebody to invest in your dream. Remember we picked this
Speaker 2: pin up. It's a dream of hours. Somebody willing to
Speaker 2: fun your dream. Put you in the studio, get you
Speaker 2: a crib, fly you to anywhere you want to go,
Speaker 2: get you any feature, and you go home and take
Speaker 2: that for granted and just turn lazy. It's insane to me.
Speaker 2: Ninety percent of artists who don't make it is not
Speaker 2: the label for you know that, right, because like, what
Speaker 2: do the label do after giving you the money? It's
Speaker 2: the work ethic. Man.
Speaker 1: Everybody can't go. Everybody can't like it ain't for everybody
Speaker 1: because because you even look and sometimes it's like how
Speaker 1: many whack rappers, like it's not just talent? How many
Speaker 1: talent ain't just it. There's some guys yo because I'm nice,
Speaker 1: because I don't ball you up like everything's just supposed
Speaker 1: to muscle beats talent when talent don't all the time,
Speaker 1: and we see it all the time, and we see
Speaker 1: whack rappers like but I'll put out a hundred mixtapes
Speaker 1: and one of these is gonna connect, right, So all
Speaker 1: you need is one. That's what it's like.
Speaker 2: It's like being a criminal in the cop. Thin criminal
Speaker 2: got to be right all the time. The cop only
Speaker 2: got to be right once.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: So, and I wanted to ask you we was talking
Speaker 2: about this off camera, how you feel about hip hop
Speaker 2: artists like myself going into journalism. G Are we fucking
Speaker 2: up the craft or we paying homage? I look at
Speaker 2: it like boxing now, I look at it like boxing.
Speaker 1: I look at it like.
Speaker 2: I fuck with Max Kellerman. Max Max is on his ship.
Speaker 2: He honest the ship word up.
Speaker 1: But there's only there's certain things that only Lennox Lewis
Speaker 1: could tell you say in Ringside, or Roy Jones could
Speaker 1: tell you when they're commentating. So from that perspective, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Rappers as journalists now as commentators,
Speaker 1: as storytellers. It's like boxing. It's like yo, man, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: Like I fuck with Max, but I want to hear
Speaker 1: from Lenox Lewis too, And so I think it's space.
Speaker 1: What it did, honestly, was it forced me to to adapt.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, does it take.
Speaker 2: Away opportunities because you think about it, ain't a whole
Speaker 2: lot of journalists with podcast deals anymore.
Speaker 1: It's all former rappers or former athletes, right that. That's
Speaker 1: just a fact, Like, you know, the people with the
Speaker 1: money to invest in y'all want to invest in your
Speaker 1: They're not necessarily coming to a me or to an
Speaker 1: Elliott Wilson at this point, or who shout to be
Speaker 1: that like like they were like it was when we
Speaker 1: were just the only game in town. So but you
Speaker 1: don't complain, you adjust. That's just the playing field just changed. Well,
Speaker 1: guess what, You're going to have to do a whole
Speaker 1: lot more to get me out of here. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just gotta work harder, I gotta work smarter, I
Speaker 1: gotta change my approach. I started my own podcast that
Speaker 1: I shoot, it's just me, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's just not a podcast. It's just my thoughts and
Speaker 1: it's me in the room and not just go. And
Speaker 1: I film it myself and I edited myself. And while
Speaker 1: because while I might not be able to have the
Speaker 1: budget for the production myself, I was like, Yo, I
Speaker 1: could do premiere pro. I got that camera and I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna do this ship to depth so we get big.
Speaker 1: You look at somebody like Joe Budden, look at his
Speaker 1: set now and look at the set when he first started.
Speaker 1: He ain't ended up where he started at. And that's
Speaker 1: what I love that.
Speaker 2: I love you broke him up because that's one thing
Speaker 2: I hate about our culture that people like to look
Speaker 2: at the end result and want to mimic you. It's like,
Speaker 2: Joe been doing this ship for the last twenty years,
Speaker 2: started on my Space, doing alive with his family.
Speaker 1: It's insane.
Speaker 2: And now you look at where he at now, everybody
Speaker 2: thinks they they could do it. He deserved to be
Speaker 2: where he at because he worked for it and earned it.
Speaker 1: You can't do that, fam chill out. Even even Nori
Speaker 1: Man and I remember when nor recalled me before he
Speaker 1: started drinking. Shout the EFN shout out drink. Champ's whole
Speaker 1: staff my dog. I used to interview Nori at MTV
Speaker 1: and he used to He didn't he didn't even need
Speaker 1: a project out. Norwy just knew how to go viral.
Speaker 1: Nor knew nor He would say the right thing. And
Speaker 1: I don't even think he was trying. It was just
Speaker 1: Nod being Nord and his his interviews was always entertaining.
Speaker 1: And and then when he came back around said yo,
Speaker 1: I think'm gonna start a podcast. Where did you think?
Speaker 1: And he told me to drink Champs. I did. I said, yo,
Speaker 1: I thought that'd be a fucking great idea. Ship. I
Speaker 1: remember we said this. He's not gonna mind me saying this,
Speaker 1: but first couple of episodes he'd be like, yo, like
Speaker 1: Jezu is coming, Yo, Yo, can you send me questions?
Speaker 1: I would send him questions.
Speaker 2: So this one that would come in because he even
Speaker 2: put it on Twitter. Yo, I got yo, what y'all
Speaker 2: wanted to ask up right? Like yo, my may and
Speaker 2: you cheating man?
Speaker 1: And so I would absolutely one because Nori is my
Speaker 1: man and I want to see him win. I remember
Speaker 1: one time I interview Hold on Twitter spaces and Norri
Speaker 1: was the first one to call me after, like, bro,
Speaker 1: how did you do that? I can't interview like like
Speaker 1: you like, how do you navigate that? And I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: that's just what I do. Like I could give you
Speaker 1: some of the science, but you're brilliant and what you
Speaker 1: I can't do what you do because at the same
Speaker 1: time he had Nas is a tough interview. I've interviewed
Speaker 1: Nas before. Nas is like, if Nas ain't super comfortable
Speaker 1: with you, he'll give you the interview. But he not
Speaker 1: like just he not just gonna give you information. I've
Speaker 1: been there for the sake of giving it.
Speaker 2: I've been there, like and it's been interviews doing this
Speaker 2: that I felt like some of them were fun and
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, I enjoyed that interview or this
Speaker 2: was dope.
Speaker 1: But it's been a couple of the way I've been like, damn, man,
Speaker 1: that the fuck. I don't want to do those no more.
Speaker 1: But but it's some times it's like unlocking the call
Speaker 1: so and there's no disrespect. That's just NAS's personality. But
Speaker 1: I remember watching Nas do a drink Champs interview with
Speaker 1: Nori and maybe the look of help. But he's comfortable
Speaker 1: with Noory because that's his man. It's one of the
Speaker 1: best NAS interviews I've ever seen. So I had told
Speaker 1: Nori the same way, maybe I could interview a whole
Speaker 1: one Twitter spaces. I can't interview now. I've tried to
Speaker 1: interview NAS and none of them has been as great
Speaker 1: as what you just what you did, So it's the
Speaker 1: lame for everybody, man, And I'm just with people who
Speaker 1: trying to if there's a lot of people coming in
Speaker 1: here who try.
Speaker 2: To bullshit with it any days about the money, say
Speaker 2: the dollar sign, that's like, that's one thing.
Speaker 1: When I got into the space, bro, I was.
Speaker 2: I told Nori one, I'm not going to be tearing
Speaker 2: down the very people I call my brothers in culture.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tear down the one thing that pay me,
Speaker 1: hip hop. So I'm not here to destroy hip hop.
Speaker 2: I'm not here to spare the the smear campaigns again
Speaker 2: into my pears, Yo, dirt, who we slept with? Who
Speaker 2: is if I can't just be a fan of the
Speaker 2: art and the people I'm interviewing, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do this shit, bro, And he was like, now, trust me,
Speaker 2: people just want to hear you.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad.
Speaker 2: He convinced me to do this shit because I didn't
Speaker 2: want to do it because now I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: I get to hear your story, where you started from
Speaker 2: where before it's you acting my story.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? You know how dope I
Speaker 1: felt sitting here interviewing Clue.
Speaker 2: Enough.
Speaker 1: These is niggas who interview me when I was as shorty.
Speaker 1: So now it's like, nigga, tell me what you used
Speaker 1: to do growing Now it's real. And then plus your
Speaker 1: perspective again, Like I mean, we talked about my perspective
Speaker 1: of just knowing how to pen, how to how to
Speaker 1: put shit out. But you you, you, you got plaques
Speaker 1: on the wall, you like world towards that, and the
Speaker 1: relationships you got is different. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: like you and in the first couple of episodes like
Speaker 1: seeing You and Guru, so like you know the right
Speaker 1: things that you know how to lite. You weren't just
Speaker 1: blaze like you and Clue like you was in it.
Speaker 1: So it's just a different perspective. You You you have
Speaker 1: questions that I wouldn't even think to ask because it's
Speaker 1: the details.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've been we've been in the trenches. But
Speaker 2: looking back over your career, what are you most proud
Speaker 2: of contributing to.
Speaker 1: This hip hop game. Man. Wow, I think the thing
Speaker 1: I'm most proud of is just one being able to
Speaker 1: feed my family and and and and and and raise
Speaker 1: my kids and and to show my kids that you
Speaker 1: could live your dream. Man. When I when I was,
Speaker 1: you know, twelve years old, I knew this is what
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. I want to be involved in
Speaker 1: hip hops sort of way. And I've been able to
Speaker 1: make a good living and raise a family. So just
Speaker 1: to show my kids, like yo, that thing that you love,
Speaker 1: you just gotta do it to death and it's gonna
Speaker 1: work out. But other than that, it's man just being
Speaker 1: able to contribute, like I'm I'm I'm. I'm grateful for
Speaker 1: everything that I've earned, paid my bills and got a
Speaker 1: crib and shit is cool put food on the table.
Speaker 1: But I'm also proud of of not what I've made,
Speaker 1: but what I give it back, like being able to
Speaker 1: shine light on certain artists, you know, and some of
Speaker 1: the biggest artists today, like like I remember when Kendrick
Speaker 1: first started, when Wiz first started, when Cole first started,
Speaker 1: when nit when when you can name them? And I
Speaker 1: remember there was certain artists I used to bring up
Speaker 1: the MTV and and the older people have been in
Speaker 1: the MTV, but like why you're bringing this and they
Speaker 1: turned out to be the next superstars. So it feels
Speaker 1: dope to to give just light to the coach, help
Speaker 1: people grow, you know, and especially those who aren't like
Speaker 1: a Fred the gods. When we put Fred one so
Speaker 1: nice to death punchline you to your dad putting him
Speaker 1: on the double X self Freshman cover. But me being
Speaker 1: the one to make the call, yo, yo Fred, like ready,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Or to be able to
Speaker 1: call them Mickey Fax and put him on the cover,
Speaker 1: or you know, I put the call into J Cole
Speaker 1: like Yo Cole and you know what I'm saying, like
Speaker 1: cover like that. So and just to see you know,
Speaker 1: all this grow would kind of you know, become who
Speaker 1: they meant to become. I'm not taking credit for it
Speaker 1: by no way. That that that's that's their talent. That's
Speaker 1: they hustled as god or to be like damn like
Speaker 1: like we was there and and whatever light you had
Speaker 1: you was willing to shine and use it like that
Speaker 1: should mean a lot.
Speaker 2: Means everything, man, trust me. So when people think about
Speaker 2: Rob Markman years from now? Man, what you want them
Speaker 2: to say? What do you want them to say about
Speaker 2: the man, the rapper, the artist, the journalist, just everything.
Speaker 2: What's the last words you want people to think about you?
Speaker 1: That he cared about us, That he cared about us
Speaker 1: the week that that he gave a ship, that it
Speaker 1: wasn't just a lit and he cared about this hip
Speaker 1: hop ship and he contributed in a positive way.
Speaker 2: Because because I agree, I never heard you in no
Speaker 2: bullshit spare campaigns.
Speaker 1: You be just telling it like it is, and I
Speaker 1: try not to be this. I also feel like I
Speaker 1: could tell the truth and not be just because my
Speaker 1: other thing is and I'm not the toughest guy, but
Speaker 1: I mean, you guysk anybody who grew up with me,
Speaker 1: I won't. I'm not running from nothing. That's a fact.
Speaker 2: Like we gotta be tough to I tell people, you
Speaker 2: don't have to be scared to get fucked up.
Speaker 1: I'm not scared.
Speaker 2: Okay, you can still get willing to fight and you
Speaker 2: don't have to be tough to fuck somebody up.
Speaker 1: Like it goes both ways. But so my thing, and
Speaker 1: what I learned about myself earlier is love it. You're
Speaker 1: never gonna say I ran that's right, and so whatever
Speaker 1: whatever I say, I gotta stand on it. Now. I
Speaker 1: could say, I could criticize, and I could say the truth.
Speaker 1: I don't got to be disrespectful about it. I won't.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna see me say anything on those cameras
Speaker 1: that I won't say to your face because now, hey, yo, Bob.
Speaker 1: I remember in two thousand and six when you was
Speaker 1: at MTV and you was on that high and some
Speaker 1: ced round table. It might have been some shit I
Speaker 1: forgot about, and you said, you know that the bleak
Speaker 1: album man, and you said this that what's up with that?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: You don't want to say now. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say it now. I gotta be able to stand on
Speaker 1: it and say the exact same thing, you know. And
Speaker 1: I've had run ins with with with certain rappers. They
Speaker 1: ain't like a review or Yo, you wrote this and
Speaker 1: you wrote that, It's like yeah, and be there and
Speaker 1: be like that. I'm glad I never took this rap.
Speaker 1: I definitely, and it's never been it's never been all
Speaker 1: the casees, but people had to respect. People say yo,
Speaker 1: but you wrote this, and I was like, yeah, because
Speaker 1: that's what it is, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: they'd be like, yo, I don't agree with you, but yeah,
Speaker 1: you got it.
Speaker 2: In his opinion, if you could leave the next journal
Speaker 2: the next generation of journalists, with any piece of advice
Speaker 2: of moving the culture forward, of just believing in theyself,
Speaker 2: even if they just want to get started in the game, right,
Speaker 2: what would it be.
Speaker 1: For any journalists? First of all, it's saturated now. You
Speaker 1: got Elon on Twitter on X he done said he's
Speaker 1: selling you blue checks, and he said journalism is dead.
Speaker 1: You all are the journalists. Everybody's a journalist now. Elon
Speaker 1: said this. So what I'm saying is the game is
Speaker 1: wide open, right, and I think what you need to
Speaker 1: do is study the chess board, find the thing that
Speaker 1: you love, and then the niche, the niche where you
Speaker 1: fit in. Everybody's doing this, everybody's doing that. Where can
Speaker 1: you fit in and where can you build an audience?
Speaker 1: Study the chess board, find that niche, find that thing
Speaker 1: that you love, and respect your audience. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Appreciate you pulling up, keep doing your thing. Man.
Speaker 2: You know what it is when it comes down to
Speaker 2: this journalism game. You put respect on guys like this
Speaker 2: man who paving the way for the new generation.
Speaker 1: Man. You know what it is.
Speaker 2: If you want to hear real stories, real life deeps
Speaker 2: into the music, real life breakdowns on what lyricis is
Speaker 2: and what they're talking about. This is where to go
Speaker 2: if you want that bullshit continue to be where you at.
Speaker 2: Rob is the one man in the future.
Speaker 1: You know what it is? This rock solid, blizzety solid.
Speaker 1: Let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows at and
Speaker 2: you can follow me on any social media platform under
Speaker 2: the name Memphis Bleak.
Speaker 1: You see anybody fraud in, flag them,