1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: Of course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 1: classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora Yo

3
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 1: Yo it Up.

4
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 2: This is Fonte Fontigaelo with this week's QLs classic.

5
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: This week we go deeply talking to my man, my.

6
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 2: Brother, Dan Charnas, writer, radio hosts and music ezech. Dan

7
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 2: talks about his early days, a say about journalists, some

8
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 2: of the artists he did and didn't sign in the nineties,

9
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 2: and how a simple grandma mistake can cause big trouble.

10
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 2: This one was originally released February twenty second and twenty seventeen.

11
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 2: His new book, Diller Time, which is absolutely incredible.

12
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: It releases February first.

13
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 2: Of twenty twenty two and it is just an amazing

14
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 2: book and a beautiful lergy too, and an incredible producer.

15
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 2: Dan Charnas gls classic Fontigolo YEP.

16
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 3: Crazy Suppriva Ro, Suppriva Suppriva roll call subprev some Supreme

17
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 3: roll Suprema some SUBPRIMEO.

18
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: Rod Harriet Tupman Rosa Parks. Yeah, a million more Black

19
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: Americans America. What is today?

20
00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 3: Impact Supreva ro called Suprema son, Suprema Ro.

21
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: My name is Fante. Yeah, shout out to my Jews. Yeah,

22
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: Quest of Supreme, Yeah, fake news that suprema so supreva road.

23
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,839
Speaker 4: I met Darryl Yeah when he was defending on television.

24
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

25
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 5: And the people that were on the other side of

26
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 5: the argument, Yeah, didn't stand a chance, right, Suprema suprema

27
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 5: some Suprema.

28
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 1: Rod called thank you Linda Bean, yeah of ll Bean

29
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah for your great support. Yeah by ll B Suprima.

30
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 1: That was like brama roll call.

31
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 6: Very incredible people. Yeah, and I want to think, Carson,

32
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,359
Speaker 6: what's gonna be heading up hud.

33
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big job. That's all you ever done

34
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: in your life. Rics Suprema. My name is Dan.

35
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,639
Speaker 7: Yeah. I didn't meet Darryl, but I now missed the president.

36
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

37
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:41,519
Speaker 1: It was played by Will Ferrell. Suprea roll Suprema Suprema.

38
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 3: Roll call, Suprema Suprema, roll call so Breema so Agreema.

39
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 6: Roll call.

40
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, we are This might be the most

41
00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,080
Speaker 1: roguus episode of Quest Love Supreme, probably since the Christmas special.

42
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:08,239
Speaker 1: Yeah classic Yeah, uh wait llll Bean is black. No,

43
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: it was I was reading the Trump tweet. We should

44
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 1: explain what we were were well, Yeah, to celebrate month

45
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 1: we read Trump's Those are excerpts that was Trump quotes

46
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: Black quotes from his Black History speech that he gave. Okay, wait,

47
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,919
Speaker 1: was just a random tweet that that I was about

48
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 1: to say. I'm sorry. I was like, I support ll

49
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 1: Bean Yeah, New Hampshire be all Okay, ll Bean's a rapper, right, yes, yeah, yeah,

50
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: he's ll cool J's Mexican cousin. Sometimes we've managed to

51
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 1: immediately within five minutes. Okay, this is apparently the last

52
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: episode that was his cousin and Thecammery is also Irish.

53
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 1: I see what or that was his best version ever.

54
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 1: We it would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge Black

55
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: History Month. Yeah, you got. We figured the best way

56
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 1: to do it is to quote Cheeto Jackson. That's just

57
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 1: that's your man son. Yeah he Cheeto Jackson. Yeah yeah, man,

58
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 1: he's yeah.

59
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,600
Speaker 7: He's making Herdergie trumpson.

60
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: There he is. Yo.

61
00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,839
Speaker 2: Listen, man, I feel like we need to do something.

62
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 2: I feel like we need to do the photo negative

63
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 2: version of Black History Month.

64
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 1: Explain that was the rest of the month, yo, Well,

65
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,280
Speaker 1: because I feel like, you know, it's a lot of

66
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: stuff going on now, and you know it's you know,

67
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,000
Speaker 1: we're having this war I think between like people that

68
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 1: are globalists and nationalists and everything and.

69
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,840
Speaker 6: You know, pederalists, everything, all the I s T s

70
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 6: all the so.

71
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 2: I feel like every Black History Month we try to

72
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 2: show like what black people have contributed to the country.

73
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 2: I feel like, in order to really show people what

74
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,599
Speaker 2: we've done, I feel like maybe it might be time

75
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 2: for us to just remove ourselves like a mon like

76
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 2: just just for one month, day without yeah, a day

77
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: without niggas, like an.

78
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 6: The Mexicans did that and it worked.

79
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: I feel like like every like for real, like we

80
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,160
Speaker 1: take like for one month we show you for all

81
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 1: the people just like go back to your country if

82
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 1: you don't like to hear for one month black people,

83
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: we take away our music, We take away all our seasoning.

84
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 6: About to make a living on the music.

85
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: Well, no, I'm saying, listen, if I can go a month,

86
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,039
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, do we have the discipline?

87
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:37,280
Speaker 6: You know?

88
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 1: Right now, a dude who's not eating any cereal or

89
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 1: fried chicken or whatever cheese steaks that I've been noons

90
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,720
Speaker 1: and dulging for as of this taping, we're in the eighties.

91
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 6: Your resistance down.

92
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that is one of the I think that's

93
00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,720
Speaker 1: all I can I can't do no more. Ain't got

94
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 1: no more. I can't do no more. You put in

95
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: your time, man, I understand, but I thought about that,

96
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,840
Speaker 1: like what if we just did like a just a

97
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,600
Speaker 1: cultural enema, and well, we just removed ourselves just to

98
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,839
Speaker 1: really show, like all these folks that really won't black

99
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,840
Speaker 1: people go away if you go, and not just black

100
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 1: people people of color, if we are like your your

101
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,120
Speaker 1: your uncle that like needs heart surgery, No doctor Patel

102
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,480
Speaker 1: can't help you. All the brown people, everybody, all the

103
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,119
Speaker 1: color people like your hedges outside that's growing over. Nah, nigga,

104
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: get yourmo left. So you know what I mean. I'm

105
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: just saying, like we if we did that, I think

106
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,479
Speaker 1: we should. We need to let our absence season start. Man,

107
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. You know what I mean.

108
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 1: It's just a thought. It would never work. People. We

109
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: ain't gonna do that.

110
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,279
Speaker 6: A good TV though, we should do like a TV

111
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,359
Speaker 6: should write it right it.

112
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 1: Up, Which brings us to our guess.

113
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 6: With us, this is all you dog today we kind

114
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 6: of celebrate.

115
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 1: Your own guest ship. Okay, welcome, I got the beats.

116
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 7: What you did?

117
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 2: Okay, man today on a quest of Supreme. We have

118
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 2: a guy that is man has written the what I

119
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 2: would consider like the hip hop Bible, you know what

120
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 2: I mean. He wrote a book called The Big Payback

121
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 2: and uh, the best way I can describe it, I've

122
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 2: never seen Star Wars in my life but that. But

123
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,480
Speaker 2: you know, for the Star Wars people, it is this

124
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 2: book that shows how all what still to this day still.

125
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 1: I gave him last year and that was your first

126
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: time seeing it. For Yeah, you ain't going to see

127
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:53,520
Speaker 1: Billy d.

128
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 6: You ain't gone.

129
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 1: I was four when that nigga was popping.

130
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 6: I'm watching that, all right. I'm sorry to mean to digress.

131
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,520
Speaker 1: It was you know, I wasn't watching that. Okay, I

132
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 1: missed Star Wars, but hey whatever, So as I was

133
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 1: saying Billy G was in the Empire strikes back, that's

134
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: the second one, right, Yeah, that's the one I heard

135
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: was kind of live. I heard that one was dope.

136
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: I can't believe we're having this conversation. No, I just

137
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: missed that.

138
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 4: Whole was like hip hop Bible for Star Wars people,

139
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,559
Speaker 4: Star Wars people.

140
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 2: His book showed how all the Anakins became Darth Vader's

141
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 2: like if you want to see how every all the

142
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 2: major players in the game, the Russells, the Rick Rubins,

143
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 2: the Jesus Christ, everybody, everyone who's someone in the world

144
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 2: of hip hop. If you want to see how they

145
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 2: became who they are, this book shows it, and it

146
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 2: shows how hip hop played a role. It starts off

147
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight. I want to say, is it

148
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 2: seventy sixty eight? Oh shit, I missed the whole decade technically.

149
00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, the beginning of the book, which is amazing

150
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 1: to me, which I know, so we gotta build it up.

151
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: So no, nineteen sixty eight. It starts with.

152
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 2: DJ Hollywood, uh, and it ends with the election of

153
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,559
Speaker 2: Barack Obama, and it shows how hip hop played a

154
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 2: role in all of that and all just the mini

155
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 2: the thread.

156
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 1: Hip hop was a thread that ran through all of that.

157
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 1: And it's an incredible read. And on top of that,

158
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,680
Speaker 1: he's uh played a hand in some of my favorite

159
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 1: hip hop records. And he's also the writer creator, well

160
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 1: one of the writers co creators of The Breaks on

161
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: v H one, which I played a small a little bit,

162
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, big bro, and uh nah,

163
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: And he's like you know, real good friend of mine,

164
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,839
Speaker 1: very knowledgeable guy. Ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls. Give it

165
00:09:52,920 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 1: up for mister Dan Charnis, Can I break it up?

166
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 7: Well?

167
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: The thing was I the thing that grabbed me about

168
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,040
Speaker 1: the Payback book is the fact that you really started

169
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,959
Speaker 1: the book in the eighteen hundreds. And what I wanted

170
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,920
Speaker 1: to ask you, what I always wanted to ask you,

171
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,719
Speaker 1: was what were your feelings about Hamilton? Because you now now,

172
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,199
Speaker 1: that's the one thing I wanted to ask on like,

173
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 1: and I never got to ask him, like was he

174
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 1: inspired by reading your book first? Or because you made

175
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 1: the comparison and compared Alexander Hamilton to you put him

176
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 1: in hip hop terms right in the same way that

177
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 1: Hamilton actually does, so did you assuming that you've seen it?

178
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,480
Speaker 7: Or I think we both read Cherno's book at the

179
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 7: same time and had different reactions to it. He was

180
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 7: a playwright and he started on this amazing work, and

181
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,079
Speaker 7: I was working on a book about hip hop, and

182
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 7: it just made sense. The guy who invented American money

183
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,839
Speaker 7: lived and died in Harlem. That's the first sentence of

184
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 7: the book, and so it ends. And sugar Hill is

185
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 7: Alexander Hamilton's estate.

186
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,079
Speaker 1: That's where he lived.

187
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 7: So I when I heard about Hamilton, I.

188
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: Just no, no.

189
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 7: I thought, I was like, oh my god, he gets it,

190
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 7: he really gets it. Somebody else gets it. And Lynn

191
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 7: knew something else that I couldn't believe anybody else knew,

192
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 7: is that the very first rap record, really the first

193
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 7: rap on record, like like Bronx style, Harlem style. M

194
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,560
Speaker 7: Seeing was not sugar Hill Gang was not Rappers, Delight

195
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 7: was not King Tim iid. It was on the soundtrack

196
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 7: the Broadway recording of the original soundtrack recording for Runaways

197
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 7: by Liz Suados in nineteen seventy eight. There was a

198
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 7: rap song about the Blackout on that album, and Lynn

199
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,880
Speaker 7: tweeted about him, like, wow, he knows that I've never

200
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 7: met the man. I mean we have the same like agent,

201
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 7: but I've never I've never met him.

202
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, that's brilliant. Lennon of Miranda, So you have

203
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: you seen Hamilton? Yeah yeah, yeah, So okay, I always

204
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 1: wanted to know what the feelings were. Yeah. I mean,

205
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,599
Speaker 1: it's why you took that position though, because because we

206
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 1: live in.

207
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 7: Harlem, so we feel like really connected to the soil

208
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 7: of the place, you know, and you know, my son.

209
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 7: He plays little league baseball in Jackie Robinson Park, which

210
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,360
Speaker 7: is right on that cliff under sugar Hill, And it's

211
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,679
Speaker 7: it's like you you feel the presence.

212
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 6: There of that and is that that's where you were

213
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,199
Speaker 6: born and raised or not?

214
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 7: I was not born in Harlem.

215
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 1: Where were you born?

216
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 7: I was born a few blocks south of Harlem, Lennox

217
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,080
Speaker 7: Hill Hospital on seventy seventh Street.

218
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: So, yeah, as a non New Yorker, how do you

219
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: differentiate as a as a non New York or for

220
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,599
Speaker 1: me as a non New Yorker asking you, how do

221
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 1: you differentiate what's Harlem and what six?

222
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 7: You know, the border on the east Side.

223
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so ninety six is considered up upper west Side.

224
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,520
Speaker 7: That's your border between the Upper east Side and Harlem.

225
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 7: Now I live in Harlem, but but that's in the

226
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 7: traditional border.

227
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 1: It gets a little tricky because I've been looking for

228
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: a few cribs or whatever, and when I went to

229
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: check out a spot in Harlem, they've now re christened

230
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: sugar Hill as in Hamilton Row. And when I and

231
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: when I asked they were they kind of yeah, they

232
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: kind of kicked it to me, like, yeah, this does

233
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 1: an excuse for us to add an extra extra.

234
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 7: Zero zero to the yeah to the to the press,

235
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,199
Speaker 7: and a lot of a lot of that stuff gets

236
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,079
Speaker 7: named for real estate, like morning Side Heights two to

237
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 7: be Harlem Heights, but then when the name was out

238
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 7: of vogue, they changed.

239
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 6: It's like stages of gentrification changed anything. Heights like that just.

240
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,199
Speaker 1: Sound real project to me, Like in around our way

241
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: in the South, like heights, Garden, y'all have heights, heights, heights, gardens, homes,

242
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,080
Speaker 1: homes of the jack, any of them, Like oh yeah,

243
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's real. Yeah, it's yeah. It's a lot

244
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 1: of wik vouches, it's it's real. It's real out there.

245
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 1: So that's where I stayed at. But so I want

246
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 1: to go. In the words of our Coult leader, I

247
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 1: want to start at the beginning. You've always wanted. I

248
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,560
Speaker 1: want to start. Want to start the beginning.

249
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 2: So act as if you know, because we me and

250
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 2: you have had a lot of conversations about, you know, everything.

251
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 2: So it's like Eddie Murphy are sitting on home. I

252
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 2: want to be okay, So tell us the beginning, Like,

253
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 2: you know, what was your upbringing like as a kid.

254
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,080
Speaker 7: Uh, well, I guess the most important thing about my

255
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,960
Speaker 7: upbringing is that, you know, my mom raised me in

256
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 7: this town that was in between Baltimore and Washington, d C.

257
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 7: So I grew up with a lot of you know,

258
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 7: soul and funk radio Columbia, Maryland.

259
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so are you from there to No.

260
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 6: No, Columbia, alas, I'm from the DMV, but not like Columbia,

261
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 6: because Columbia kind of not you know, like you said,

262
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 6: it's on the edges in between DC and Baltimore. Your

263
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 6: cooler in Baltimore.

264
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 7: You know, I grew up listening to w h U

265
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 7: R Howard University Radio, listening to uh, you know, V

266
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 7: one O three in Baltimore. So it was an interesting

267
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 7: sort of class and race integration of an interesting place

268
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 7: to grow up, and yet it was the most segregated

269
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 7: time in American culture. It was like post disco. You know,

270
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 7: all the radio formats were really really strict, and you know,

271
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 7: I had my sort of I mean, I grew up

272
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 7: with Earth When in Fire and Stevie Won and all that,

273
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 7: but I had my epiphany with you know, more Bounce

274
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 7: than Ounce in nineteen eighty. That was my thing. Like

275
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 7: I never heard this song on the radio stations that

276
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 7: my preppy friends listened to what are these other radio stations?

277
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 7: And that began. I sort of got politicized by that

278
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 7: a little bit.

279
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 1: What was your people's playing in the crib? What was

280
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: mom and dad?

281
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 7: Earth Wind and Fire? Marvin gane oh, Stevie Wonderer.

282
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, Oh so you was raised on the essential?

283
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 7: Yeah. My mother still angry at me that I stole

284
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 7: her Earth Wind and Fire records when I left for college.

285
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 2: So that's dope, man, that they would listen to that.

286
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: So that was was that your entry way of like saying, hey,

287
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 2: I want to do this one day, like I want

288
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 2: to do it for myself.

289
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 7: I was actually when I went to college, I was

290
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 7: actually thinking of becoming a like a school teacher, high

291
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 7: school teacher. And my major was Afro American studies. They

292
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 7: called it Afro American Studies at that point, and I

293
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 7: did a I just decided that I would do my

294
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 7: thesis on I called musical apartheid in America.

295
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 6: Say what, wait? First, let me just ask you this.

296
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,680
Speaker 6: We talked about your background. This is radio. Let me

297
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 6: just not assume you're not African American.

298
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,440
Speaker 7: I'm Jewish, So I always wonder.

299
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: Y'all didn't know that either because y'all would have been celebrated.

300
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 1: Oh wow, y'all didn't know you thought he was like

301
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: John B.

302
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 6: No, you'd never assume, because you know, black comes in

303
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 6: many forms. You know what I'm saying. Mariah Carey is black,

304
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 6: So why couldn't he didn't? Because I asked that because

305
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 6: I'm always interested when non blacks do a major like

306
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 6: Afro American studies, like that's interesting to me, Like what

307
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 6: made you?

308
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 1: I did? No for a major to West African? Still

309
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: the Muppets every day has nothing to do with West African.

310
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: I did. That's been to Africa more than you have.

311
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 6: I've never been there, no, never, Most of us have

312
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:50,919
Speaker 6: never been there.

313
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: You'll find that I've been that. I've been to the

314
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 1: South Africa.

315
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 6: They're artists. Most regular black people people don't. We've never

316
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 6: been there.

317
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 1: So the only people that can afford to get to

318
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,400
Speaker 1: Africa those a can exploited.

319
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,159
Speaker 6: So I'm interested in.

320
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 1: Singular click.

321
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 6: So now that we have, that's interesting. So now we

322
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 6: have two Jewish men who majored in that, both of y'all,

323
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 6: I will be interested in y'all.

324
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 1: Like the Total song Africa Sugar for the Wind, I can't. Yeah, yeah,

325
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 1: I saw, yeah, so I thought you do. Well. No,

326
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 1: he's a member of the tribe. He's my brethren.

327
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 7: M O T.

328
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 6: Wait what's the answer for real? No, seriously, what makes

329
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 6: you major in African Americans?

330
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 7: More about to the house.

331
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 1: Just okay, I just okay, okay, I'll be honest with you.

332
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 1: I was kind of you. Yeah, I mean you had

333
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 1: so much flavor. I just thought, okay, you one of us,

334
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 1: like a Sean king. I didn't want to zoom. I

335
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: think it's appeared in the glasses. I think that's I

336
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: think that's what it is.

337
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 7: Could be Latin too, you know, just hand but okay,

338
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 7: if I come without the beard, it would have been

339
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 7: completely different.

340
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the beard kind of you give it a

341
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 1: little play tops at home and my pass.

342
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 5: How come the Beastie Boys and Rick Rubin don't automatically

343
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,120
Speaker 5: give us credit right from the beginning.

344
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 4: Well, okay for having bounce or funk or whatever you're

345
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 4: talking about.

346
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: It's weird when listen. As for me, when I first

347
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 1: heard the original Maroon era parties getting rough, like, I

348
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 1: thought they were Puerto Rican, Like have you heard rock hard?

349
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: And all right, maybe not rock hard, but definitely with

350
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: this party is getting rough? Have you have you heard

351
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 1: this party is getting rough? Uh? Yeah, I have. I

352
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: we talked about it in the previous Yeah. So, I

353
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 1: mean basically I thought they were Puerto Rican and it

354
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 1: wasn't until you know, I opened the inside leave a

355
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: licensed to ill. I was like, oh, they are not

356
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican. Well, also, I guess the way they were

357
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: dancing on cheese on it and crush groove, I should

358
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: have known that. Yeah. Yeah, and I guess Puerto Rican.

359
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: For me, it never because I was in the South,

360
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: so we have a lot of Puerto Rican. So we

361
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: just it was either black or white Salvadorian.

362
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh wow, that's a whole nother culture, right, do

363
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 6: you not You don't remember this Dan in DC? This

364
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 6: is no Okay, hadn't gotten there yet because that was

365
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 6: like the early eighties.

366
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: Okay, that was that was when all the coke was

367
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 1: getting moved.

368
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 6: Listen. I don't know so Dan after.

369
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: Left.

370
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 5: Man, Well, anyway, nobody answered my question. Just assume in

371
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 5: the future that all Jewish people are funky. Well yeah,

372
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 5: some of the I'm just joking, but I'm saying you shouldn't.

373
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 5: I mean, certainly, you know, you can he was offended

374
00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 5: by s.

375
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 7: There is a bit of a special relationship. I don't

376
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 7: want to make too much of it, but there is

377
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 7: a bit of a between me and between the three two.

378
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm feeling, what do you mean.

379
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 7: Between uh, you know, black folks and Jews in America?

380
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 1: Here we are, We're on the same game civil rights.

381
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 4: I'm just saying you shouldn't be surprised that that there's

382
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 4: a Jew in the room.

383
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: I was never surprised. You know who has bounce or

384
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: whatever you want to be said flavor flavor? I mean

385
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: you know I Search episode. I said that Search had

386
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 1: more flavor. Yeah, because that was the term of the time.

387
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: That was what it was. He had flavor. So all right,

388
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: if you're just joining us, uh, this is the prame.

389
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 1: And if you're still with it for our Jewish listeners,

390
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 1: hope we pitch no. We're here with Dan shahnis author

391
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: of The Big Payback MESI Plas and also writer for

392
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: The Breaks and a whole bunch of other flash ship

393
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: be about to get into all right, so tell me

394
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: how college you went to?

395
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 7: Boston University.

396
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 1: Boston University.

397
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 7: Graduated eighty nine. Okay, okay, you know so you got connected.

398
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: I knew, but I don't want to play that game, like,

399
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, start naming proper nowns. Did you know a

400
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: Lloyd Stare It? Okay?

401
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 4: And I'm Google searching that ship.

402
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: Alright.

403
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 7: So however, I did go to college at the same

404
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 7: time as Paul Batty.

405
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's that Paul Batty who's.

406
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 7: Wrote to sell out just one of the man Booker Prize.

407
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: Paul college friends. Man, damn read a book. I am

408
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: read Dan's book. Okay. So what was your major in college?

409
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 7: Afro American Studies?

410
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: Oh, that was like your major major. Yet it wasn't

411
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: like I got excited. That's real, Okay, especially in Boston,

412
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: right exactly are.

413
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 6: You looking at me like what's wrong? I'm to see

414
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 6: if this makes sense. I'm like you, you went to

415
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 6: Boston University. Yes, you majored in Afro American studies. You

416
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 6: came from the DMV. That's like a lot of different things,

417
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 6: Like you came from a whole freaking different culture in

418
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 6: the DMV, went to Boston and then studied afrom like.

419
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: Going up there from.

420
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 7: Yes, because they didn't have any radio stations that played

421
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 7: any funk soul, R and B you know.

422
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: So that was graduated eighty nine, so I went there

423
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: in eighty six eighty five, right, so this is so

424
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: of course this is how okay, I know it was

425
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: this leading Okay, So all I have to listen to

426
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: the college stations and all they're playing is like this

427
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: electro and hip hop.

428
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 7: Right, So that was my induction into more hip hop,

429
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 7: because hip hop was always just sort of like a

430
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 7: subset of R and B to me, and then it

431
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 7: just started to become more important to me. And then,

432
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 7: you know, when you're in college, it's the first time

433
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 7: I ever read Malcolm X. It was my sort of

434
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 7: really like kind of getting politicized, and then the music

435
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 7: was getting political at the same time. So by the

436
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 7: time I graduated, it was the only thing that was important.

437
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 7: It is the only thing I wanted to do. I

438
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 7: wanted to be involved in the business, you know, somehow

439
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 7: to help this culture become everything that it could and

440
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 7: should be. And I think I said, I'd written this thesis,

441
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 7: you know, honest thesis at the end of college called

442
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 7: musical Apartheid in America and sort of analyzed white America's

443
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 7: relationship to black culture over a four hundred year period

444
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 7: and so the dynamic of right ambivalence, we love it,

445
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 7: we hate it, right, we love you, we hate you.

446
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 7: And I sort of tracked that throughout four hundred years

447
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 7: and it ended with hip hop. And that's how I

448
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 7: got to meet a lot of the people in the business,

449
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 7: because I went and I interviewed them, and one of

450
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 7: those people was Bill Stephanie, who was the president of

451
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 7: Deaf Jam at the time. And Bill, you know, I

452
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 7: sent him a copy of my thesis when it was done,

453
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 7: and he, you know, said, when you come to New York,

454
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 7: come look me up. You know, maybe I'm starting a

455
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 7: record company. Maybe we can work together. And what was

456
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 7: funny about that was right the evening that I was

457
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 7: supposed to meet with him, the Village Voice story came

458
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 7: out with Professor Griff talking about Jews and jewelry. So

459
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 7: the record company got put on this and eventually became

460
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 7: Soul Records.

461
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: Right yot steps, Oh wait, Soul so first one.

462
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, So Bill and Hank, Bill left def Jam to

463
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 7: form this record company with Hank and Chuck. And then

464
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 7: you know, Griff you know, was talking to Dave Mills

465
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 7: at the Washington Times and R. J. Smith at The

466
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 7: Voice picked it up and then it was just it

467
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 7: was like postponed for a year.

468
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 6: What was the controversy for those that don't know.

469
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 7: What happened, was that Professor Professor Griff said something to

470
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 7: the effect of, why do you think they call it

471
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 7: jewelry because of the Jews?

472
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it is right. I'm like that, I

473
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: don't know, it's not that, it's not I assume, said Thompson.

474
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: I've always assumed it was. But at that time that

475
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: was crazy.

476
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: I remember, I remember that ship was. Yeah, like Griff

477
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: they cut him out. They had to kind of like

478
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: excommunicating whatever, Like was no, no, for real, Like that

479
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: ship was.

480
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 6: Like I'm looking.

481
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: That's one of the questions I forgot to ask MC

482
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: search was there was a confrontation between him and Griff.

483
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: The reason why that jam had to put guards in

484
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 1: the you know, uh, that was one of the main reasons.

485
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 8: Like, it was a lot of confrontations.

486
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: I remember that summer. So that put everything on hold.

487
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Once that happened, that kind of put soul on hold.

488
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, So what I ended up doing was getting a

489
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 7: job in the mail room of Profile Records, and that

490
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 7: was the home of Rob Bass run DMC special ad

491
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 7: right in the summer of like the fall of nineteen

492
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 7: eighty nine. So my first job was answering phones and

493
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 7: stuffing envelopes a profile.

494
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: So you're saying that had that not happened, so would

495
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: have gotten developed by nineteen eighty nine instead of nineteen

496
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: ninety one. That's right.

497
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 7: Wow.

498
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: So I wonder if those young Black teenagers and the

499
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: Sun of Bersik album were ready to go in nineteen

500
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: ninety like earlier than when it got released, because it

501
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: didn't come out to what like ninety ninety one.

502
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 7: I do recall Bill still waiting for those things to

503
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 7: be complete in nineteen ninety like it was.

504
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: He was still you know, those two records, man, are

505
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: like to me, I mean as far as like I

506
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: loved anything and everything that the Bomb Squad has ever

507
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: done as a production unit. But it is so weird

508
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: because do you have a product musically it could be

509
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: hip hop or whatever that you hold near and dear

510
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: to your heart that you know won't translate to anyone

511
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: else enough for you. Like to me, I like, if

512
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: I were at the source at the time when those

513
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 1: records came, I would have five mic both those records

514
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: because it's just so many layers of genius to them,

515
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: at least from the production side. But you know, I

516
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: know the average person would just give it three whatever.

517
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: The source love that song, well, they love changing the style. Yeah,

518
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: they gave that a classic rate. Well they gave it

519
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: a four the time.

520
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 7: Remember that.

521
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: Oh I've memorized record. Yeah, because I don't want to

522
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: scare you and I hate to change the subject.

523
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 7: But you know what I remember. I remember your columns.

524
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 7: I think they were wrapped sheep right, yeah, we're a columnist.

525
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 7: That's how I first got yeah, she she she she

526
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 7: hooked me up.

527
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Man. So with those records of soul gets, it's those

528
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: solos on whole you a profile. I was even one.

529
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: We were talking about this today, man, like, like, do

530
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: mail rooms still even exists anymore?

531
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 7: I really don't know.

532
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: I don't know record labels, but NBC, NBC there's always

533
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: someone putting mails flowing. That's the way I get record companies. Ghetto.

534
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 6: I am.

535
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: All my mail gets to the NBC now, so everything

536
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: like cards from families. People be like what's your address,

537
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, do you want me to get

538
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: actually get letter or package or yeah? So all I

539
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: just you know, that's my house and they'll bring it

540
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: to you sleep there. Yeah, I mean some weekends, I'll

541
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: make it a weekend there. I guess it is your house.

542
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 6: Then record companies barely have offices, so do they because

543
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 6: that's started.

544
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: To get out of the mail room.

545
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 6: Now was that?

546
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: So at that time were you getting were you like

547
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: getting to please listen to my demo? Like, were you

548
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: getting that? Yeah?

549
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 7: I mean it wasn't. It wasn't. The thing about Profile

550
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 7: at the time, there really weren't any It was a

551
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 7: hip hop label. I mean had a lot of hip

552
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 7: hop on it. There were no like hip hop heads there.

553
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 7: You know Brian Chin who signed Rob Bass and special Ed.

554
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 7: He loved hip hop, but his first love was dance music, right,

555
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 7: So I guess that's why Corey gave me a job,

556
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 7: you know, listening to demo tapes and doing ain't R

557
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 7: and I was not very good at it.

558
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: But who were your signings? Why do you say you were? Well?

559
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 7: I mean I just wasn't successful in getting anybody across.

560
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 7: Like I found Geno Excel when I was you know,

561
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 7: at Profile, but I was not successful in making the

562
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 7: sale and getting him signed. So but it wasn't long.

563
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 7: You know, while I was working at Profile, I also

564
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 7: was writing for The Source. They had were in the

565
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 7: process of moving from Boston to New York. Were you

566
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 7: in that first summer issue, the one I wrote the

567
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 7: ll cover story?

568
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: Sorry a couple of years.

569
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 7: All right, you wrote that cover story, the one the

570
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 7: Mama said.

571
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: Notack you out? Yes, I remember, oh Man, the nerd,

572
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: the nerd of me is really about.

573
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 7: To go in, go in, oh Man.

574
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Lego heart just like exploded exactly like that that issue.

575
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean that probably next to the first five issues

576
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: of Grand Royal Magazine. Wow, like Royal somewhere in one

577
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: of those eighteen storage units are like, I'm an I

578
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: would buy the Source like three each and just preserve them.

579
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: Because when I first got that l issue, am an

580
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: easy issue. I'm like, that's the first time I ever

581
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: saw people truly understand and really wax poetic about hip

582
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: hop culture in a way that Rolling Stone would or

583
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: Cream Magazine. Like. I'd read those magazines and just wonder,

584
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: like damn, like wonder what it's like for someone to

585
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: write about hip hop culture that way.

586
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: I didn't know you wrote that cover story. I was

587
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: just shot in the dark. That's crazy, and that was

588
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: what nineteen ninety ninety.

589
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 7: So I wrote the Public Enemy cover story, the ice

590
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 7: Cube cover story, and then the the lo one.

591
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Oh man, did you review America's Most Wanted?

592
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 7: I did, well, it was more like it was more

593
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 7: like an essay on ice Cube.

594
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I know that. Nice to give an issue

595
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: you didn't know. Okay, okay, well, but I remember that

596
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: was like the summer issue, right yeah, yeah, because the

597
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: most One got a five. I want to say, yeah,

598
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: Tribe got a five, Edu Teament got a five. It did, Yes,

599
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: it did. A fourth album got a five that I

600
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety and I'm also shocked that I knew. I

601
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: knew you guys were the deal. When some didn't sit

602
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: right with me with Fear of a Black Planet, but

603
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, you know, I'll ride with it.

604
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: You know, one of those things where it's just like

605
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: probably how you feel about phrenology? Nah, yo, okay, now

606
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: let's go there say kind of I mean there's you know,

607
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: give you give your act like I'll let it slide

608
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: and just but no, well, okay, we'll talk about phrenology.

609
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: So Fear of a Black Planet, you didn't you wasn't

610
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: all the way on board with that. Well here's the

611
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: thing though, I mean, even though the thing that still

612
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: holding in light now mind you, I mean it's twenty

613
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: five years later or whatever, you know, the Pitchfork's right

614
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: up of it. They gave it a perfect ten and

615
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: really really made it like presented in the way that

616
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: even I didn't see it back then, something was missing.

617
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: And then I realized that that something was Sadler. So

618
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: Sadler was sort of like on half the record, Eric

619
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: Sadler had sort of made his graceful exit, and I

620
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: couldn't quite place where was you know, some songs I

621
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: was a little the probably when the Cracker was like okay,

622
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: I like I fuck with that one. I mean, I look,

623
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: it's a masterpiece of a record, but I still went

624
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: for America's most wanted like that to me was now

625
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: if we're doing of course presidential Bomb Squad and evenfore

626
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: that matter, Bellbdevo's Poison album, No, that was Bomb Squads.

627
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: It was I know, So for me, of those three records,

628
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: like I was kind of it was kind of weird

629
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: that it was like in the Brons Squaddy, well.

630
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 7: No, it was.

631
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: It was a bronze to me, and there was a review.

632
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: They gave it three and a half mics in that

633
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Source issue, and I was like, whoa this is? I said, Wow,

634
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: they're not salivating over this. And it wasn't like the

635
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: dismissive you know, Spin magazine like this is a ghetto music,

636
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: I hate this, you know. It was like a well

637
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: informed and I was like, wait, I kind of feel

638
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: I think I agree with this, so so weird that

639
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you were that era of old so

640
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: how No, But it was it was those first five

641
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: issues that from that to brand Nubian issue that one

642
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: got five to right in two issues two issues later.

643
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 7: There was so much ambition in that era and those

644
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 7: issues like just to really have a voice that was

645
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 7: exclusively dedicated to hip hop and and just smart and political,

646
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 7: and just the people there were. I mean that was

647
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 7: Dream and Kirna and you know, Maddie.

648
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: Where was your era there? Well you there from the

649
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: beginning too.

650
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 7: I was there when they were still in Boston when

651
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 7: that Summer issue was being written, and then I left

652
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 7: to go work for Rick Rubin in ninety one ninety one,

653
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 7: so ninety one was sort of my swan song with

654
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 7: the Source.

655
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Do you remember your last issue the last article I wrote?

656
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 7: Oh man, I don't even remember it was I don't remember.

657
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 7: Sometime in ninety one, I think was my last piece,

658
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 7: or ninety one or early ninety two.

659
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's a classic as it gets. What do

660
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: you remember the album's even reviewed?

661
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 7: I did cover stories, I didn't and like feature articles.

662
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 7: I didn't really do the album reviews because that was

663
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 7: the the that was like the core group, the mind squad,

664
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 7: you know. And I sometimes I regret not participly stopping

665
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 7: my writing career to go into the record business now

666
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 7: feels like, you know, I mean, because I had a

667
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 7: lot of catching up to do. When I moved back

668
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 7: to New York. I went to go work for Rick Rubin,

669
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 7: you know, in LA for about thirteen It was ended

670
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 7: up being there for thirteen years. But I like not

671
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 7: having that that writing career going forward.

672
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: I thought.

673
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 7: So you went from Profile to the Source, went from Profile,

674
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 7: and I'm you know, just wrote for the Source while

675
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 7: I worked at Profile. Year was Profile eighty nine October

676
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 7: eighty nine to April nineteen ninety one.

677
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: So you were there for the first was Naughty by

678
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: Nature's First John on no, no, that was it was

679
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy. That was right. So honestly the first honest yeah,

680
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: the first on like this.

681
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 6: Ah so wait what was the rosters?

682
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: Just because I'm now I'm profile.

683
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 7: Rob Bass special ed U Poor Righteous Teachers, which is

684
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 7: my very first record that rocked this funky joint promotion.

685
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 7: L A Star. I don't know if you remember her,

686
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 7: I remember.

687
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: Or yes she was.

688
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 7: She was on B Boy Records for a while, then

689
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 7: Brian Chin signed her and she made a pretty good album.

690
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 7: But she got into this battle with Tretch at the

691
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 7: New Music Seminar, this MC battle, and he said the

692
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 7: only kind of star you could be as a mon star.

693
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 6: Was she not cute?

694
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: She was not I liked her. That was not would

695
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: about l a star her career right there.

696
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 6: Ship Yo, It seems like it'sunny because you said Poor

697
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 6: Teacher was your first record that you promoted. For some reason,

698
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 6: it seemed like you got really well received in my area,

699
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 6: like the d m V area. Did you feel like

700
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 6: it was easier to promote because you kind of felt.

701
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, although there weren't really a lot of mixed shows

702
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 7: in DC at the time because remember they weren't playing

703
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 7: it on WPGC at that time.

704
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: What was it like, Okay, well you left in ninety one.

705
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: Did you have to work back from him? Then I

706
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: have to back back? Was that was that ninety one?

707
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 7: Yes? Oh, so here's the story, right, here's the story.

708
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 7: So man, Rick comes call. I literally just get a

709
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 7: call out of the blue, and the receptionist says Rix

710
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 7: on the phone, and I knew it was him. I

711
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 7: knew it was Rick. Yeah, not because anybody told me

712
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 7: he was calling, but because I don't know. Gino Excel

713
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 7: and I had been working on some demos and we

714
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 7: had been talking a little bit and we just did

715
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 7: like this, It's almost like this little incantation to sort

716
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 7: of bring him out of the ether. And when he

717
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 7: said Rix on the phone, I said, this is him

718
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 7: and I picked up It's Rick Rubin. So apparently Bill

719
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 7: Stephanie had given him my number.

720
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: Whatever.

721
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 7: Anyway, why was hell was I telling you the story? Oh?

722
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: The story? Right?

723
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 7: So Rick brings me out to Los Angeles sort of

724
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 7: like a courtship, you know. Uh, he's thinking of hiring

725
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 7: me for Deaf American. And one morning I'm staying at

726
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 7: the Riot High on Sunset and one morning he calls

727
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 7: and he says, uh, come downstairs, We're going to breakfast

728
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 7: with Russell. It's like Russell's in town. So we go

729
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 7: to the Beverly Hills Hotel and Russell comes down and

730
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 7: Russell's talking a mile a minute, and Rick is laughing

731
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 7: and he recognizes me. Suddenly, Russell recognizes me as the

732
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 7: kid at profile who promotes you know, his brother's record.

733
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 7: He says, and the single at the time was a

734
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 7: song called Faces.

735
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: Which.

736
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 7: You know, So what do you think of Faith?

737
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: And I said, and I said, uh.

738
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 7: I said, and I just the wrong answer. I was

739
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 7: such a punk. I was like, well, Russell, you know,

740
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 7: I just think as far as rap R and B fusion,

741
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 7: I think the kids are really listening to in Vogue,

742
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 7: and you know, they don't really want to hear rappers

743
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,959
Speaker 7: doing it the opposite way. Faith is a louder record

744
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 7: than in Vogue.

745
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: I went into a club that ship was so loud.

746
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 7: It is much louder, and Rick is losing his mind.

747
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 7: Rick must have called three different people in the car

748
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 7: after we left that breakfast saying, and Russell said, it's

749
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 7: a louder record and that's why it's better. And that's

750
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 7: what I saw like the nature of their relationship is

751
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 7: that Russell makes Rick laugh, you know, and so.

752
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: It's like a bad way, right right, I think in

753
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 1: a Rick way. I mean you remember Faces, Yes, dude,

754
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: I had the Back from Hill album. Wait, just you know,

755
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: I gotta this face is by nineteen ninety era Run

756
00:41:47,320 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: dmcme fun and the thing was that because it was Faces.

757
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: But the single before that was Pause, which was even

758
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: more kind of new Jack swingy. But they got away

759
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: with Pause. Ter J Jay something the trade and asked

760
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: them bathing to my homie Stanley Brown car with the keyboard. Wait,

761
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: since you always wanted to know, there's there's a moment

762
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: the very last five seconds of the record where runs

763
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: just like you'll take that bullshit off that that bullshit

764
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: is bullshit. I always wanted to know if that was run.

765
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: Finally having a realization that the second worst album of

766
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: their career on that label.

767
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 7: Le Or was so mad that didn't sell. I have

768
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 7: a copy of a memo that he sent.

769
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: To the ice Cube remix Ice Cree remix of Back

770
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: from Hell. That happened. Oh, I think I remember that

771
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: there was an ice cube. It was it was a

772
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 1: Chuck d and ice Cube and Run Back from Hell

773
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: remix that. Yeah.

774
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: So because at this time, and I wanted to ask

775
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: you about this if you were involved, because at this

776
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: time that was after Tougher than Leather and you know,

777
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: run D m C had been kind of away for

778
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: a minute because they were going they were worn with

779
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: Death Jam, well War. You know, Russ wanted to get

780
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: him on Dead Jam and Profile was like, no, the

781
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: did you have any input or at that time, like

782
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 2: you know, working directly with them, like to.

783
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: Try to say like, hey, fellas, you know, no, no.

784
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 7: I mean you know they were they were at that

785
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 7: point working on their own. I mean I was just

786
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 7: the kid, you know, bringing that tapes back and forth

787
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 7: from the studio. That was.

788
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when you hear this record, like, I mean what,

789
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: I have zero ownership of it spiritually, financially, So for

790
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: you it's just straight up like I just gotta work

791
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 1: it and it's just the job.

792
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 7: Like and I mean, listen, they gotta they got they

793
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 7: got a certain amount of respect, you know regardless, right,

794
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 7: you know, I take the record the Red Red Bull,

795
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 7: play it, take it to Chuck, Chuck will play it.

796
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 7: It's not Uh that was.

797
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: Okay, what else? Sticky did you work special ads legal album?

798
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: Did that wow? Ship well let's move it? So no,

799
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: but that whole know that whole that could the five

800
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: due the five minute of my Yes, Yes, that entire

801
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: I just I just found that record, uh, to p

802
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: astronomical amount of it for the CD. Yeah it is, yes,

803
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's so slept on. It was so entirely

804
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: t was great.

805
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 6: So I just want to know how did Rick feel

806
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 6: about your answer to Russell? Because remember you said the

807
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 6: whole reason that you were coming to l A is

808
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 6: because of the possibility of you working with Rick, And

809
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 6: then you said you felt uncomfortable with the way that

810
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 6: you made him answer the question with Russell.

811
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 7: So Rick was laughing his ass.

812
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 6: What you said, and so you were you were? You hired?

813
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 7: And then well then then Russell called and left the

814
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 7: message on Rick's machine. He said, Uh, if you don't

815
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 7: hire that kid, I'm gonna hire him. He don't know nothing,

816
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 7: but like his attitude.

817
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: I'm glad they were amicable at least I really were.

818
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 7: Russell used to call me like in the mid nineties

819
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 7: when I was working for him, when they were really

820
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 7: when Russell was trying to put together his PolyGram deal

821
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 7: and get off of Sony. They were heading into their

822
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 7: they're trying to put their tenth anniversary thing together and

823
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 7: Rick still had not finished the negotiations, and he was like,

824
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 7: can you you know, can you get to Rick is

825
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 7: not doing anything? He needs to move forward. So he

826
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 7: would call me sometimes and ask if I could push

827
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 7: it forward.

828
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: So when you went to Rick, is this before or

829
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: after the original Ghetto Boys uh debut on his label?

830
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 7: That was during Yeah, so he had just signed them

831
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 7: and then Geffen dropped Deaf American because of it, right,

832
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 7: and that's when I started to, you know, have that

833
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 7: little like four month courtship period, and that's when you know,

834
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 7: we got the I guess we can't be stopped?

835
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: Right. That was when that was drop.

836
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 7: And I think that Rick felt some pressure, not really

837
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 7: pressure because Mo Austin, So he had an.

838
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: Option to have we can't be stopped before they went

839
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: to rap a lot.

840
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 7: That's right, that's right. And I think he decided once

841
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 7: he moved to Warner Brothers that you know, he had

842
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 7: fought well enough for the first one, and then he

843
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 7: didn't feel very strongly about we can't be stopped, which

844
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 7: is ironic.

845
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: Really, that was the one that was the one. I mean, yeah,

846
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: the first one was that was it was Gripping on

847
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: It was Gripping Level, which is basically the same record. Yeah,

848
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: some engineering was was a little different. And did they

849
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: not add an H to Ghetto Boys on the original

850
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: I think the original pressing of g yeah, right, but

851
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: then they went back to G E C O. Right,

852
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: but there initially when they were on Deaf American, they

853
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: tried they were.

854
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 7: He was on Deaf American when he got shot, right, yeah,

855
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 7: he got shot in the eye, and so that was

856
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 7: you know, we were still like concerned about his health

857
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 7: and everything. And but you know, now we're getting the

858
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 7: era where like the sum of my A and R

859
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 7: mistakes far outweigh any successes, you know, I mean, what

860
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 7: were your mistake? Okay, here's an example. Paul Stewart was

861
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 7: probably the best you know, all around uh talent scout

862
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 7: in Los Angeles at the time. And you know, Paul

863
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 7: brings me House of Pain's demo and there's this song

864
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 7: on it called jump Around, and I love it and

865
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 7: I give the tape to Rick. I'm duble tape for Rick,

866
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 7: and Rick calls me and I said, did you listen

867
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 7: to how the Pain. He said, yeah, I love that song.

868
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 7: Jump around a lot of jumping.

869
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: That's a good Rick, That's a good and uh.

870
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 7: And he says, I really like that song, so I

871
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 7: like it too. He says, but do you think there

872
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 7: are any other Do you think they have any other

873
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 7: songs on this? Like do you think thing? And I

874
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 7: said no, I think this is the only one they've got.

875
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 7: And then we just let it go and we were right, but.

876
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: We were so wrong. Who else give us another one day?

877
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: And I was just like, this is your greatest missus?

878
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 7: Really the Far Side demo?

879
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: What what if you're just now quest love supreme? And

880
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: he was talking about all his greatest missus? So how

881
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: did how did you? How did you miss out on that? What?

882
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: What was the story?

883
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 7: Yet another you know sort of Paul Stewart incredible demo?

884
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 7: And I liked it. I guess you know what was

885
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 7: I was just on some ship. I was like, I

886
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 7: work for Rick Rubin and everything I do has to

887
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 7: be perfect, and you know, I just don't know.

888
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if this adds up.

889
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 7: It seems kind of silly, you know, And I don't,

890
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 7: you know, stupid, you know, because once I heard for

891
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 7: Better for Worse.

892
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: Wait, that was one of the demos.

893
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 7: Not on the demo. It was not a demos, it

894
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 7: was it was mister.

895
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: Officer and uh in its current state.

896
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 7: But passing me by was.

897
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: You didn't feel it.

898
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 7: It's not that I didn't feel it. I just didn't

899
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 7: get behind it fast enough, you know what I.

900
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: Didn't. So yeah, it took me a minute because your

901
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: Mama came out. I fronted on it. Yeah, your Mama

902
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: was like your Mama, and then the remix of your

903
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: Mama when no, the remix of your Mama that was

904
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: and even they said that your Mama remixes whack dude,

905
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: it sucks dick in the album. Yeah. But then when

906
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: we got the record and when for Better for Worse

907
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: came on, Yeah, that was one of those moments. That's

908
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: the first time that like I heard Fender Roads sound

909
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: like water Run and to look at the album cover

910
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: and to hear that song like it just the personality,

911
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: like I think that's the last time I got lost

912
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: and watching it, you know, like when you're a kid

913
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: that when people talk about like seventies experiences of looking

914
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: at album covers and listening like I just got lost

915
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: in a total trance like that song perfectly encapsulated to

916
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: me what they were about, and and and that that

917
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: song made me higher. Maybe that was my triun no,

918
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: but I that that's also the song that made me

919
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: instantly hire Scott Storch to the Roots. We were keyboard

920
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: lists and then when I heard that, I was like, no,

921
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: I want that on my record. And then Rich was like,

922
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: I got this guy looking at my crib on my floor.

923
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: He can played that, damn. He brought Scott to the

924
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: studio next day and it was like, all right, you're

925
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: in the group. Damn. So that was so. So he

926
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: fronted on the forest side, but I won the farest side.

927
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: So that was man, that was what ninety one this point. Man,

928
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: So I'm talking about your time at Death American and

929
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: I was. I was just always curious, like it was something.

930
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a branding thing, I

931
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know what it was, but like they never that

932
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: label never seemed to I mean other than sir mixed lot,

933
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: which I mean we can you know, go into depth about,

934
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: but other than that, it was I don't know, like

935
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: just as a fan at that time, their releases didn't

936
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: seem to have like that. I guess that kind of

937
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: like a deaf jam. You know what I'm saying. That

938
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: just I gotta buy this, you know what I'm saying.

939
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: But the records were dope like that. The number fault,

940
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 1: How was that? Your fault was fault?

941
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 6: You know?

942
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: Because I mean like the Knots, that was like world the.

943
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 6: Knots was on.

944
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah you signed them? Yeah yo, I swear to God,

945
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: dog I listened to on the air maybe no saggeration,

946
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: maybe nine hours in a row. I kept that ship

947
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: on loop all Christmas Day, just on the edge God,

948
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: that whole. Like when we first came to Los Angeles,

949
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: the mixtapes was and see mixtapes. I wasn't big on

950
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: I was. Bus Stops was the ship though. Bus Stops

951
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: was the one. That's how we met the Jazzy vat Nasties.

952
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: They were in that video. They were in the video

953
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: for bus Stops. We when we first came to Los Angeles,

954
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: I met Dawn on her way to shoot uh like

955
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,479
Speaker 1: shoot announce video. They were in a bus Stop video

956
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: and they gave me cossette of it and we were

957
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: listening to it. We kind of clown like you should

958
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: sell buddy got them beats you know tap, you know,

959
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: like the songs that you make that suddenly we made

960
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: fun of it so much that suddenly became our ship.

961
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: And then it was like, yo, we gotta get him

962
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: on stage and rock with us, like like just okay,

963
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: so you're producing, so we didn't. We gotta get into

964
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: that your time as a producer. So how did you

965
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: make that transition?

966
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 7: It was more like these were artists, like you know,

967
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 7: Chino and Quest back in New York. They didn't have

968
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 7: a place, mad lad Yeah, so you know, they would

969
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 7: come to my apartment, you know on ninth and twentieth

970
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 7: right there in Chelsea when it wasn't a getrified neighborhood,

971
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 7: and uh, you know, so it was just they liked

972
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 7: some of the stuff they were doing with me, and

973
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 7: I managed to, you know, get a couple in there,

974
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 7: which was good.

975
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: So you were and you were making beats on the

976
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: SP at that time.

977
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 7: I was making beats on an ASR ten and a

978
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 7: rolling W thirty And then I bought King Texts SP

979
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 7: twelve hundred from him and added that to the repertoire.

980
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: And how did you learn it? How did you? Because

981
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't no manuals, no shit. I imagine

982
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: it's just just trial and error, yeah, and error and

983
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: error in error. What did you produce on on their records?

984
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 7: Well, for Tino Excel, I did a song called Rise,

985
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 7: which was the last song on the album, and Question

986
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 7: Mad Lad, I did a song called one hundred and

987
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 7: one to do while I'm with your Girl.

988
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: So you you yo? I was so mad at you

989
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: for using that Brick sample. Oh yeah, that was my wait.

990
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: I hate that. Every everything that he's done is like

991
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: a childhood memories mind. No, that Living from the Mind

992
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: sample is like I got that ship when I was

993
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: six years old. That was the first eight track I

994
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: ever got as a kid. Damn, you actually got an

995
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: eight track for Wow. This is Sleepy Brown's pop singing Wow.

996
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 6: Record.

997
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, living Living from the Mind from Brick. They were

998
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: from Atlanta's Sleepy his dad, Jimmy Brown. Yeah, but when

999
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: that was like not even like you know, like records

1000
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: when you're making beats and like, oh, I'm a sample

1001
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: that one day, but then there's like records from your childhood.

1002
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: When I heard that ship, I was so I've never

1003
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: been so mad at a sample use. I'm sorry I

1004
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: was like, no, but it was perfect, man, Like even

1005
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: the wait, when was the drum break? It was new birth?

1006
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: Did you flip it?

1007
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a new it's a kick. Boom boom, it

1008
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 7: was a yeah.

1009
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 6: So what a point in your career did you know?

1010
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 6: Because you went from I'm just I'm backtracking. I'm like,

1011
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 6: you went from mail room and our writer and then

1012
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 6: you when did you know that you could even make beats?

1013
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: Like?

1014
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 6: When did you even did.

1015
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: It all along?

1016
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 7: You know, like even in college, you know, worked on

1017
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 7: music and stuff. I was in the Inner Strength Gospel Choir.

1018
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 7: I was the bass player the Inter Strength Gospel Choir.

1019
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: Whoa, that's that's the African American States. Yeah, the Inner

1020
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: Strength Gospel Choir.

1021
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 6: You're a musician by nature anyway. That's just something that

1022
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 6: you left out at the beginning. But I mean a

1023
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 6: bass player, that's not something that just you do.

1024
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 7: You failed musicians become producer? Was this a failed producers become.

1025
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: Was this? Was this a black gospel choir?

1026
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 7: Yes?

1027
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: Someone wants to I forgot who it was? Shut up, Bill,

1028
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: when's the last white gospel choir you saw? I'm just

1029
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: saying I don't think there's a lot of them literal. Look,

1030
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: you know someone during the voodoo toward joke, it was like,

1031
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: what made a new penal that? Well, he said, Man,

1032
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: if your bass player is a white boy in an

1033
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: all black group, you know he a motherfucker. Yeah, yeah,

1034
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: so you're the bass player? It was, And did you

1035
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: learn like, were you formally training music? Was it all

1036
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: just about ear or how did you learn mostly by ear?

1037
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: But so wait, because we're just giving through his whole history.

1038
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: That quest record was so slept on though. It was

1039
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: how did you feel when he got the rap page discovery?

1040
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 7: Well, here's the story behind that, kause Shehena was at

1041
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 7: a at theime and Shea was a friend and she

1042
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 7: heard the advance and assigned Bobby Garcia to do the

1043
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 7: cover story. So Barbito wrote that cover story. But here's

1044
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 7: the thing. We were putting our rap releases not through WEIA,

1045
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 7: which was the big Warner distribution company. We were putting

1046
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 7: him through Tommy Boy's independent distribution. And Tom Silverman felt

1047
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 7: that we didn't have enough radio play on the two

1048
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 7: singles we had put out to justify putting out the

1049
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 7: album right away, and you know, we sort of panicked,

1050
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 7: and I'm like, you know, I don't know if we

1051
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 7: have another single on this, let's do four more songs.

1052
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 7: And it was a terrible time for a question and

1053
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 7: unfair to him, you know, in terms of he'd done

1054
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 7: this beautiful album and you know, we were finding ourselves

1055
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 7: doing more records. And then finally Sena came along and said, well, listen,

1056
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 7: you're either going to release that album and I'll put

1057
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 7: the cover out, or if you don't really see, I'm

1058
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 7: not doing the cover. So that's when I decided to

1059
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 7: put on the schedule anyway because of Shena.

1060
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I mean, you know, in case you think

1061
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: that you threw pebble out there and didn't ripple and

1062
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: didn't dog.

1063
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: I love that record, man, Yeah, like yeah, yeah, Death

1064
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: American like again, like y'all made the records that I

1065
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: bought and they were dope, but it was just something

1066
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: And maybe it was like the distribution that you mentioned.

1067
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it just seems like they didn't

1068
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: get that same love that I guess a lot of

1069
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: other records were getting.

1070
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't know why that was, you know what I'm saying,

1071
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: because the ship was dope. But Bill, did you know

1072
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: about question matlet. Nope, all right, I gotta play. I

1073
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: gotta play.

1074
01:00:53,320 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 6: You're not alone alone? Was hit a song?

1075
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: I know, just like question mad lad, one hundred and

1076
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: one things to do while I'm with your girl. It's

1077
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: a great title. Hell's us speaking of all the niggas

1078
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: out there that got girls on the rail, you gotta

1079
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: stop hitting them and mistreating them and neglecting them, because no,

1080
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: no joke, no, I'll fuck them.

1081
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 4: Wa chackie. Now this when it sounds about messed up

1082
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 4: war on machine.

1083
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: But if you and your girl ain'txite, you know, I'll

1084
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: fuck your lady. Get better. Good of a chat because

1085
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: it only takes one more move to make me get

1086
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: right in case? It so much classic ship man and yeah,

1087
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: it just got a little story about that.

1088
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 7: You hear that eight oh eight? Yeah, that's an actual

1089
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 7: eight oh eight drum machine. It's ricks eight o eight

1090
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 7: that's making that.

1091
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: We're into the first hour of Quest Love supprint only

1092
01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: on Pandora. Here with Uh, the Illustrious and Press were

1093
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: the Dan shawnas Uh renaissance man, Jack of all trades,

1094
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: the Black Black, the Black whites player, the white basel

1095
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: yes black, the white bass player in the Black ensemble

1096
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: Black gospel man. Yeah, that's that's some ship, sir, mix

1097
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: a lot, Yes, sir, that was like the biggest song ever.

1098
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: Like what was it like working that ship?

1099
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 7: So that starts, you know, Rick calls me at Profile

1100
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 7: Records says, I'm in town. I'd like to meet you,

1101
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 7: you know, uh, And so he he asked me to

1102
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 7: come to ninety eight Elizabeth Street, which was the old

1103
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 7: Rush def Jam offices, and he still had his apartment

1104
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 7: on the top two floors and he threw down his

1105
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 7: keys from the fifth floor so I could let myself

1106
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 7: in because the buzzer wasn't working or whatever, and def

1107
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 7: Jam had moved out. It was just Rick in this

1108
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 7: abandoned uh, you know, brownstone in the middle of the village.

1109
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 7: And so he decided that what we should do our

1110
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 7: first you know sort of meeting or you know, evening together,

1111
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 7: is we would go to Tower Records and he would

1112
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 7: buy me records that he liked, and I would buy

1113
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 7: him records that I liked, and I bought like EPM D,

1114
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 7: Big Daddy, Kane, bismarck Y Main Source, and he didn't

1115
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 7: like any he was not interested in any of it.

1116
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, some that's not surprising, and so I can kind

1117
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: of it just was not his era, you know, he

1118
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: that was the era.

1119
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 7: That he left hip hop, right, And then what did

1120
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,439
Speaker 7: he play me? He played me Audio two Milk Da

1121
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 7: and Sir Mix a Lot, both to MC's with really

1122
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 7: hazily voices, and I'm like, they both sound like ad Rock?

1123
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 7: Does he just like MCS? And then so for whatever reason,

1124
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 7: he hires me anyway, which I thought was a great

1125
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 7: leap of faith for him, right to give me a shot.

1126
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 7: And then a month after that he says, I signed

1127
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 7: Sir Mix a Lot, right, So.

1128
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: His first rigor is swah, I can't remember the the

1129
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: one with beepers was yet, don't forget that was. That

1130
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: wasn't on Deafam.

1131
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 7: That was on Nasty Mix ofle. So he signed Sir

1132
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 7: Mixed a Lot off for that, got him out of

1133
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 7: that deal, put him on his new deal with Warner Brothers,

1134
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 7: and had a finished album and he sent it to

1135
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 7: me and he says, listen to it and tell me

1136
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 7: what the single is. And I am not looking forward

1137
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 7: to listening to this Sir Mix a Lot album because

1138
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 7: I am not a fan and I'm supposed to pick

1139
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 7: a single. So I'm listening into the album and then

1140
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 7: third track is oh my god, right, and but I

1141
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 7: had just you know, it completely changed my mind about

1142
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 7: Sir Mix a lot because I had just read this

1143
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 7: article in The Village Voice by Lisa Jones, was a

1144
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 7: Mary Baraka's daughter, and she wrote about, you know, the

1145
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 7: sort of resurgence of the you know, afrocentric beauty aesthetic

1146
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 7: and you're seeing her more curvacous women in magazines. Beverly Peel,

1147
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 7: I think was the mo model back then.

1148
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: Yes, first or Jesus.

1149
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 7: So I was like, he's doing you know exactly, He's

1150
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 7: saying exactly what Lisa Jones was saying. So makes lots

1151
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 7: of feminist right. So, uh Rick calls me, he says, sod,

1152
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 7: you listen to the album, Like, yes, Baby got Back

1153
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 7: it's a single, says I think so too.

1154
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: So was that all your conversations like yeah, did he

1155
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: ever have like a conversations where you were like, hey, Dan,

1156
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: you do it?

1157
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 7: It was always no that he would. He would like

1158
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 7: come back from Lollapaluz. I say, hey, Rick, how was

1159
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 7: la Palooz? He said, there's a lot of jumping. He

1160
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 7: had a crazy sense of humor and not to get

1161
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 7: off the topic. But he would. He would come into

1162
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 7: a recording studio and if he didn't like what he

1163
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 7: was hearing, he would just say, I've got to leave.

1164
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 7: My doctor says my homeopathic doctor says, I can't be

1165
01:05:52,640 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 7: allowed around a lot of heavy electronic equipment. Would say, Wow,

1166
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 7: I had to make a I wanted to make a

1167
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 7: video for the Art of Origin. He only gave me

1168
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 7: five thousand dollars to make it. And I'm like, listen,

1169
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 7: I got a treatment, but I need twenty thousand dollars

1170
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 7: to make this video. And he says, all right, I'll

1171
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 7: give you the twenty thousand dollars, but now you have

1172
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 7: to make four videos.

1173
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

1174
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 7: So the first thing I did when I moved to

1175
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 7: LA was, you know, go to the Chaplain stage was

1176
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 7: the old A and M lot, and that's where we

1177
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 7: shot Baby Got Back. And I walked into the set

1178
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 7: and I thought, oh my god, this is a cartoon,

1179
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 7: Like they're going to totally ruin the politics of this song.

1180
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: This is a serious, dude, you thought you were going

1181
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: to make a political statement. I just thought the direction

1182
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: You're not look at the did you not look at

1183
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: the treatment where it's like this big.

1184
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 7: Ass was Apparently the treatment was Mixed a Lot told

1185
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 7: the director, it's me rapping on a big ass.

1186
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: So you didn't tell Sir mix a Lot that there

1187
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: was a political that we could win with.

1188
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 7: It was his angle to have. I just walked into

1189
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 7: and I'm like, oh my god, is this going to

1190
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 7: be a cartoon? How's this gonna be? Because now we

1191
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 7: see it as an iconic video, But walking into that

1192
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 7: room it felt like because then mixed Lot was upset

1193
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 7: because he said none of the dancers had asses, right,

1194
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 7: so that was a problem for him. Then they put.

1195
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard all right, I got a minute now.

1196
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 7: I was like, yeah, baby, ones in gold, not the

1197
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,479
Speaker 7: one in yellow. The one in yellow is fine.

1198
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 6: In the beginning, the ones din't gold with the little shorts,

1199
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 6: the shorts, and.

1200
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 7: Then there was a woman of color who they were

1201
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 7: dressing as a mermaid for some reason, and they put

1202
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 7: a blonde wig on her and that was like no, no, no, no, no,

1203
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 7: what are you doing? So mix Lot's getting ready to

1204
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 7: walk off the set. Adam Bernstein's the director is getting

1205
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 7: ready to walk off the set. Ricardo the man, Ricardo Frader,

1206
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 7: his able manager, managed to, you know, pull everything together,

1207
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 7: the video happened and it ended up being fantastic, and

1208
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 7: all my fears and anxiety d's you know.

1209
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 1: It ended up not being warranted, all right, So baby

1210
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: got back, shit goes through the roof.

1211
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 2: Did you feel a little, I guess vindicated as an

1212
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 2: an R, like did you pick the right one that time?

1213
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 7: I didn't because I wanted I signed to become a hit.

1214
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 7: So I had put a lot of faith in Quest

1215
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 7: and a lot of energy into Chino cell and Gino Excel.

1216
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 7: That was another story because he was part of a

1217
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:32,759
Speaker 7: group called the Art of Origin, a duo from East Orange,

1218
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 7: New Jersey, and his partner was Carrie Chandler. Now, if

1219
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 7: you know the house music, carry Chandler was then an

1220
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:45,560
Speaker 7: incredible deep house producer. But now he's a legendary, you know.

1221
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 7: And I learned so much about producing from Carrie. I mean,

1222
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 7: Carrie took me from here to there.

1223
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: What happened with Chino's record?

1224
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 2: I remember there was a got what was the It

1225
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: was a sample clearance that I think you guys had

1226
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: problems with because he's said it was a line about

1227
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 2: Miles Davis or something, and it was like everybody, yeah, yeah,

1228
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 2: he was talking everyone.

1229
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,679
Speaker 1: I think lightly after after.

1230
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 7: You know, he had been trying to get a deal

1231
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 7: since nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety and it was already

1232
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 7: ninety four, ninety five, and he just had it. Says,

1233
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 7: you know what, I'm just going to tell the truth

1234
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 7: the way that I you know, I'm going to say

1235
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 7: what I what everybody's afraid to say. You know, the

1236
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 7: relationship between you know, Eddie Murphy and another actor who

1237
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 7: should name unnamed. You know, like we made a poster,

1238
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 7: like a black and white poster out of all of

1239
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 7: his punchlines and really yeah, and that's what got him

1240
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 7: on it.

1241
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: And she was gonna say what offended to I don't

1242
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: know the line that offended. I know that it must

1243
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: have got under his skin because I've never heard the

1244
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: words fuck you utter so hard and with like you

1245
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: heard the scheme of venom, fucking fucking what was?

1246
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 7: What was? Now that I am a professor at the

1247
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:14,959
Speaker 7: Clive Davis Institute, I understand the importance of writing instruction

1248
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 7: and the importance of a misplaced modifier. That's the problem

1249
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 7: with Gino, Excel and TUPAC because Chino said, by this industry,

1250
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 7: I'm trying not to get fucked like Tupac in jail.

1251
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 7: What he meant was Tupac's trying not to get fucked, right.

1252
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: But what was this is not this is a cactus

1253
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: turn had his mother out. Yeah, this is a second

1254
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: grammatical era. That's like some ship. This is a ship,

1255
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: That's what it was. Did they have you know, they

1256
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: have to make bees there squashed?

1257
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 7: You know Tupac died.

1258
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's you're hears it all come out ninety five.

1259
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: I can't.

1260
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 7: I do remember though, when Tupac died, Chino called me

1261
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 7: and he was crying because he really liked Tupac. I mean,

1262
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 7: he liked him as an m MC, he liked him

1263
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 7: as a lyricist. He I think he wished it had

1264
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 7: gone another way. And I remember going to we went

1265
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 7: to Vegas with James Lopez. Was when Mackavelly came out

1266
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 7: and James and I went up to the up to

1267
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 7: the room, and Chino stayed in the car just to

1268
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 7: listen to Macavelly alone, you know, like to have that moment.

1269
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1270
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: Man, So after so your two main extitute signed Chino

1271
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 2: inquest and then baby got back like goes through the roof.

1272
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: The follow up to that album it was was it

1273
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: put him.

1274
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 7: On the Glass, which didn't become a huge hit, but

1275
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 7: it made Seinfeld, so that made me proud.

1276
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: The video.

1277
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,640
Speaker 7: She's not going to put him on the glass.

1278
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: Because that was okay, mack Daddy was the baby Baby?

1279
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: What was that album? The one after to put them

1280
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: on a glass album?

1281
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 7: They'll make a liar out of me, Chief, Chief, Chief

1282
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 7: boot knocks.

1283
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 6: How do you know that?

1284
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: Chief? I could see it, but I couldn't call it.

1285
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: Was that the one with fake Louis on it?

1286
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 7: That was Swap Meet Louis?

1287
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: That was mac Daddy. That was that was mack Daddy.

1288
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 6: Did you ever see the Lauras Tucker?

1289
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 1: Was that like that?

1290
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 7: No, we were not important or successful enough to ever.

1291
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 7: That's the one good thing about my in R career

1292
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 7: sort of flew.

1293
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: Under the radar with old little Time Warner controversy, nothing.

1294
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 7: But I was there during that whole thing. I mean,

1295
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 7: that's actually one of the scenes that ended up in

1296
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 7: the book that Moe, Austin and Warnicker called a huge

1297
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 7: meeting of all of the important rap artists and their managers.

1298
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 7: So everybody came, Tom Silverman, came, Bill Stephanie came, uh Coolgie,

1299
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 7: Rap came, Ice t came Georgie, and Josa came. You know,

1300
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 7: everybody was in one room. Paris was in the room,

1301
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:03,600
Speaker 7: right was so that this is for context. This is

1302
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 7: in nineteen ninety two. There's a big controversy over Ice

1303
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 7: ice teas heavy metals song with his heavy metal band

1304
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 7: body Count. Somehow rap music gets blamed for that, and

1305
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 7: so Warner has you know, been basically the board of

1306
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 7: Warner read the Riot Act to the music group and

1307
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 7: he said, listen, if we're going to have a lyrics

1308
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 7: board here, it's going to examine all the lyrics and

1309
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 7: if you don't want to you know, if you don't

1310
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 7: want to be put through that, we understand, and we're

1311
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 7: going to let you go right if you if you can,

1312
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 7: will release you.

1313
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:40,679
Speaker 1: You know, no problem.

1314
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 7: Moe was a good guy and he was in a

1315
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 7: really really bad position and put in a really bad

1316
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 7: position by Bob Morgato and Jerry Livin who.

1317
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: Had you know, we're over him.

1318
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 6: How long did Elas?

1319
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 7: It didn't last long because once there were two phases

1320
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 7: to the culture Wars in the nineteen nineties, right, the

1321
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 7: first phase was nineteen ninety two, which was the Body

1322
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 7: count Cop Killer where the police unions all of the

1323
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 7: country were boycotting Time Warner. That subsided after the because

1324
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 7: that was an election year, right I was in Clinton

1325
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 7: got elected. Then it happened again. The ce Delores Tucker

1326
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 7: Face was like ninety five something like that, and her

1327
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,799
Speaker 7: big goal was to get Time Warner to drop Inner Scope,

1328
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 7: and she succeeded. But then Innerscope basically walked with all

1329
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 7: its masters and got paid double by Universal to set

1330
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 7: up shop over there. So I think everybody knew here,

1331
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 7: Oh you're.

1332
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 6: That actually scared me.

1333
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 7: Now you can't. In other words, it's you can't. It's

1334
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 7: like whack them all, you know, you beat it down

1335
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 7: over here, It's just going to end up over there.

1336
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 7: And so that ended pretty much ended the culture Wars.

1337
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 1: So when did you leave Deaf America?

1338
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 7: When Rick lost his Warner b Others deal when he

1339
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,679
Speaker 7: sort of had got a smaller deal over at Sony

1340
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 7: in ninety god what year was it? Ninety seven?

1341
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: Okay, I won't to have a chance to ask him

1342
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: this unless he does the show, but would you happen

1343
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: to know what his opinion was of the Paul's Boutique record?

1344
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: Did he ever mention or the BC Boys at that

1345
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 1: point in that moment, like.

1346
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 7: I'll tell you this, I can only give you sort

1347
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 7: of little vignettes, right. So the first vignette is me

1348
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 7: going to LA for the first time with Rick and

1349
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 7: him being in line at Club Lingerie I think it was,

1350
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 7: and like ad Rock is in front of us, you know,

1351
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 7: and just having a very terse conversation with him, like

1352
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,759
Speaker 7: these were best friends, you know, and they're being civil

1353
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 7: to each other, but there's no like, there's no connection there.

1354
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 7: The second vignette is a couple of years later, I'm

1355
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 7: walking around the office or whatever, and he stops me

1356
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 7: and he points to my shirt and he said, I

1357
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 7: like that shirt, that shirt that Adam would wear. And

1358
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 7: I realized at that point of my mind went back

1359
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 7: to that first thing. I realized, he misses his friend,

1360
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 7: you know, but he just didn't know how to do

1361
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 7: the things he needed to do to keep that friend.

1362
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1363
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 7: They were financial betrayals, there were you know, friendship betrayals.

1364
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: But I do know that he.

1365
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 7: I think he liked Paul's boutique. He really admired Matt Dyke,

1366
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 7: you know, Matt Dyke was his friend. And I think

1367
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 7: Dyke helped on that album a bit, but I think

1368
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 7: he was more sort of there was a little bit

1369
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 7: of shadenfreude because Paul's boutique lost money for capital, you know,

1370
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 7: because they had caused him so much tumult when they left,

1371
01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 7: you know, So I mean.

1372
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 1: It was you a good businessman or was he a

1373
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 1: creative man?

1374
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:07,639
Speaker 7: Rick is a creative man. There's no question. He didn't

1375
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 7: have a Russell.

1376
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: That's the problem.

1377
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 7: That's why that's why American Recordings did not do well

1378
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 7: really ever. I mean they had a few hits, but

1379
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 7: he didn't. He didn't have somebody, a partner who could

1380
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 7: do what Russell did, and that's why they were so

1381
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:30,839
Speaker 7: good together. And you know, Russell never found a creative

1382
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 7: person like Rick again, but he found another kind of

1383
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 7: symbiotic relationship with Lee or.

1384
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: M Yeah, if you could call it symbiotic, but I

1385
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 1: would say it. So ninety seven you leave, uh, you

1386
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: leave American? Where do you go? From that point?

1387
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 7: I went to work for Forst Whittaker. Forst Whittaker was

1388
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 7: starting a record company, and yeah, Spirit Dance Music distributed

1389
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 7: through Epic, and I tried to sign the Far Side

1390
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 7: again in ninety seven because they wanted off of Delicious

1391
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 7: Vinyl or whatever, and and I was trying to make

1392
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 7: a way from We ended up signing Trey.

1393
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 1: Oh just train from the Far Side. Oh Man, did

1394
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: anything ever happened?

1395
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 6: No?

1396
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: Because with not Doogie howser? Uh, Parker Lewis can't lose. No, no, no,

1397
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't. No, you're talking about Green? That was yeah?

1398
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: That was yep. Okay, that album actually wasn't bad. It

1399
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't bad. I heard I heard it was

1400
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 1: you never heard it. But if you've heard everything not,

1401
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 1: that album wasn't bad. I mean, Bill, you'll be if

1402
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: you really knew what we were talking about. I just

1403
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 1: love that you got to Brian as the Green from

1404
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: Dougie House, you know White Boy TV. Come on, no,

1405
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 1: Brianross the Green. The album was called one Carnival. Yeah,

1406
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 1: one Stop Calling.

1407
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 6: I do remember a video that do you send me?

1408
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 1: It was like Trey was singing on it. It was

1409
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: respectable joint. He was like the first Drake. He was

1410
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 1: like the first like TV star. No, damn, we haven't

1411
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:17,759
Speaker 1: had a good rabbit hole in a second.

1412
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 7: You know what, though, when I work for Forrest, I

1413
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 7: tried like hell to sign Crosswalk, Crosswalk, Cody Chestnuts before,

1414
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 7: but it wasn't it was it was like Beatles esque rock.

1415
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: It was dope.

1416
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 7: He was dope, and uh, you know I remember seeing

1417
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,600
Speaker 7: him live. This is really early on this before I

1418
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 7: think he was ever making music with you guys, and

1419
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 7: he's like this next song is white record Companies can't

1420
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 7: sign my group because of me, you know.

1421
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: Ship like that just funny and really good. And I

1422
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 1: bagged for us to sign him, and so so far

1423
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: as was really doing his business. It wasn't like a

1424
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: vanity thing where it's just like, no, it wasn't van anything,

1425
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: just like like Michael Jordan's wasn't hidden beat.

1426
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, so Trey was like the start I was.

1427
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 7: That was Acclaim else they never released anybody Ghost. Uh,

1428
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 7: that was happening right when I was there. Actually there

1429
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 7: there was a film with Jim Jarmush and Rizza's first score.

1430
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 1: Yep, it was I remember.

1431
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 6: They were doing radio promotions behind that because they came

1432
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 6: to see is Rizza and Forrest.

1433
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 7: But that's when I decided I kind of had enough

1434
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 7: for the music business.

1435
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: You wanted to tell them about themselves. I wanted to

1436
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: write again. So since I was in LA.

1437
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 7: The first thing I did was, you know when you

1438
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 7: when you're in l A and you want to write,

1439
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 7: you you tend to think of writing for the screen.

1440
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 7: So I ended up writing for the Lyricist Lounge show

1441
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 7: and and then for You'll Love This be ET's Comic View.

1442
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 7: Comic View, they had sketch comedy for a little while,

1443
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 7: so I helped out for a season.

1444
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 6: How was that experience?

1445
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 7: It was great? I mean I loved writing comedy and

1446
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 7: in a way it set me up for the breaks

1447
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 7: later on, you know, just in terms of that being

1448
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 7: in a room of writers, really really funny people Alison

1449
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 7: Foos and oh Man, they're just really you know a

1450
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 7: lot of them had worked for a Living Color and

1451
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:23,920
Speaker 7: I just learned a lot.

1452
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 6: Well, Lyris's Lounge was phenomenal, like that was a that

1453
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 6: was the that's where I don't know what, and.

1454
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 7: Most words were like he had a chance to write

1455
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 7: with most a little bit like not like on the

1456
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 7: sketch side. So he wrote the rhymes and I sort

1457
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 7: of contributed ideas for the sketch, but most came, and

1458
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 7: common came, and Erica came. It was a really good,

1459
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 7: really good tough.

1460
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: I believe there did an episode or not.

1461
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:53,440
Speaker 7: I don't remember.

1462
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 6: When did you know you were funny in the realm

1463
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 6: of you? You've had a lot of hats. Okay, So

1464
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 6: what I'm just saying, Well, well, here's.

1465
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 1: What I used to do.

1466
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 7: I used to do this segment, you know, the wake

1467
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 7: up show, King Tech and Sweat. So I used to

1468
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 7: do this thing where I would read, I would read

1469
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 7: like the Steve Allen gag right, I would read rap

1470
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 7: lyrics as poetry and I ended up doing a bunch

1471
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 7: of sketches for them, and so that led to the

1472
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 7: gig with with lyrics.

1473
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 1: Why did you think that worked? Man? Because I thought

1474
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 1: that was I mean, I thought it costs too much.

1475
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 7: Did great in the arratings, but it costs too much

1476
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 7: to make.

1477
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: What would the what would the twelve hours late?

1478
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 7: I think he was on time. I think he was.

1479
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: In South Africa.

1480
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 7: You what was the what was the what was you wait,

1481
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 7: fooling nobody? He was. There was like a presidential debate

1482
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 7: between him and uh master fool remember yeah, I.

1483
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: Mean f u o l oh my god? What what?

1484
01:22:58,080 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: Why was it so expensive? What were the what were

1485
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 1: the call involved?

1486
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 7: Just sketch comedy, wardrobe and Union, and I mean it

1487
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 7: was a real production and it was not something that

1488
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 7: MTV was used to doing. I mean they were doing

1489
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 7: reality shows which are just bank Yeah.

1490
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, what was it about TV that you love? Because

1491
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 6: I mean at some point you were like, I'm staying.

1492
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 7: The ability to write something and then have it uh

1493
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 7: you know produced and on TV media it was so

1494
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:29,560
Speaker 7: immediate and I got a chance to actually act and

1495
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 7: like to be a part of that thing, and.

1496
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 1: That was It was dope. It was his favorite jobs.

1497
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: It's also ahead of his time because MTV still has

1498
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:46,639
Speaker 1: uh next show while 'nout yeah, which the cheaper version,

1499
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 1: much cheaper version. But no, yeah, it was I think

1500
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 1: it's a show that would do much better now in

1501
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 1: like the snapchat you know, uh meme era then you

1502
01:23:58,800 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 1: know back then.

1503
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 2: So at some point you decide, okay, you want to

1504
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:08,600
Speaker 2: you're writing. When does the I guess the beginnings of

1505
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 2: the Big payback the Bible, Like when does when do

1506
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:13,679
Speaker 2: you start writing?

1507
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 7: It started when I wanted to do hip hop journalism again,

1508
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 7: and so I pitched, Uh, I pitched an article that

1509
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 7: nobody would buy. Vibe wouldn't Vibe wasn't interested in it.

1510
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 7: Double XL wasn't interested in it. It was called Last Night,

1511
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 7: a DJ Saved My Business, and it was about these

1512
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 7: guys who owned these disco labels in the eighties who

1513
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 7: thought they were going to be disco kings and ended

1514
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 7: up wrap fell into their laps and saved their asses. Basically,

1515
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 7: So we're talking about Corey Robbins, a profile, Tom Silverman,

1516
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 7: Tommy Boy, Fredmanao at Select right, the the record companies

1517
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 7: that basically funded the golden age of hip hop. Unwittingly

1518
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 7: they didn't because they weren't you know, they became hip

1519
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 7: hop fans, but they weren't of hip hop. So nobody

1520
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 7: cared about it. And so I decided at one point

1521
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,639
Speaker 7: that I really really missed New York and I wanted

1522
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 7: to come home. And so I just remember I was

1523
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 7: at a party with an editor of yet another magazine,

1524
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 7: and I was pitching this article at him, and he

1525
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 7: turned away from me in mid pitch and walked away.

1526
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 1: Damn.

1527
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 7: And I was like, all right, you know what, maybe

1528
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:30,639
Speaker 7: this is a book. So I had enrolled at Columbia

1529
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 7: Journalism School to get my masters, and I did a

1530
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 7: lot of things there, like I ended up I did

1531
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 7: my master's project in the West Bank in Palestine.

1532
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 6: And.

1533
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 7: I was either going to do a book on that

1534
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 7: or I was going to do this hip hop business history,

1535
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 7: and so it ended up being that. And my mentor

1536
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 7: there was the great Sam Friedman, who teaches this book

1537
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 7: writing class every year and only twenty five people a year.

1538
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 7: Getting you have to pitch him a book I did

1539
01:25:58,280 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 7: to get into.

1540
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: The class, and was the big payback was that your pitch.

1541
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 7: The big payback was it was called Beats, Rhymes and

1542
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 7: cash at first, right, And so I got in and

1543
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 7: then the very first day we're supposed to bring in

1544
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 7: like a sample chapter, and NPR is taping the class

1545
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 7: for a piece on the class because like so many

1546
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 7: people get published out of this class, and so on

1547
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 7: NPR to this day, there is a First of all,

1548
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 7: I won the Cliche Award, like every the most most

1549
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 7: cliches per It was like, you know, so I having

1550
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:33,679
Speaker 7: a bad day anyway, And we got into this argument

1551
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 7: about whether old school was a cliche or a genre,

1552
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 7: and I was maintaining it was a genre, and he

1553
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:40,439
Speaker 7: was maintaining it was a cliche. And he says, and

1554
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 7: this is still on NPR ten years later, he says,

1555
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 7: as they say on the basketball as they say on

1556
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 7: the basketball court, Dan, stop bringing that weak shit.

1557
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: Dang, that's my, that's my. But he's the guy. He's

1558
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,719
Speaker 1: like that tough love Sorry, he's.

1559
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 7: Like that tough love teacher that got that treatment out

1560
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 7: of me. And I got out of that class.

1561
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1562
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 7: A month later that treatment was sold, and then I

1563
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 7: spent the next three years reporting the book.

1564
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: So how did you?

1565
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 2: How did that make you a better writer? Because I've

1566
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 2: only known you, I only know you now, So what

1567
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 2: did that class do for you as a writer? How

1568
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 2: did it make you stronger?

1569
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 7: Just pouring over every word in every comma, trying to

1570
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 7: make every sentence as as elegant and efficient as it

1571
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 7: can be. You know, every every sentence has a function,

1572
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 7: Every word has a function. But even more than that,

1573
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:37,760
Speaker 7: I kept getting sidetracked because I'm a nerd, you know,

1574
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 7: about music, and I wanted to talk about the emergence

1575
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 7: of the AO eight drum machine, and I wanted to

1576
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 7: take these divergent paths into what Marley did and how

1577
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 7: much the bridge was so important.

1578
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: You sound a lot like somebody I know. Yea, So.

1579
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 7: He says, right there, So he says, Dan, it's about

1580
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:08,719
Speaker 7: the music. Sorry, he says, Dan, It's about the business,

1581
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 7: not the music. It's about the business. It's about the business.

1582
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 7: He kept saying that mantra to me, and and so

1583
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 7: I listened to him, and that's I remember that first chapter.

1584
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 7: I turned and he says, you can't write this chapter

1585
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 7: without getting the voices of Sylvia Robinson and Bobby Robinson,

1586
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 7: Like I need to know what they were doing while

1587
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 7: jay Z was getting his Grammy Where were they not Grammy?

1588
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: Oh?

1589
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 7: Sorry? When he was at the Rock and Roll Hall

1590
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 7: of Fame awarding the uh you know, the Grandmaster Flash

1591
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 7: of the Furious Five for the first people to get inducted.

1592
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,519
Speaker 7: So that was a motif for the book. J D

1593
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:45,799
Speaker 7: was a jay Z was inducting them, and he wanted

1594
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 7: to He knew the reader would want to know where

1595
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 7: the founding mother and one of the founding fathers of

1596
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:54,360
Speaker 7: the business were at that moment, and if all the

1597
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 7: listeners were big Sylvia was in the hospital and Bobby

1598
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:00,640
Speaker 7: Robinson was at home watch them.

1599
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: So do you acknowledge this as the hip hop Bible?

1600
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 7: No?

1601
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 1: I kind of see it more as the the forty

1602
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 1: forty eight Laws of Power. You know that that one

1603
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:17,640
Speaker 1: book that every guy that went to jail has that like, like,

1604
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 1: it's no, I don't mean your book. I'm just saying,

1605
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,720
Speaker 1: like you, I always see the forty eight Laws of

1606
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: Power book and every like when Jay first got his

1607
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: office at Deaf Chair that book, I was like, are

1608
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 1: you strategically placed in this areas? He had a nerf

1609
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: ball and it's forty eight Loss of Power book. But

1610
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean it is very informative and and sort of

1611
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 1: detailing people's journeys. And why did you feel that was important?

1612
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 7: Because it wasn't out there or hip hop is so

1613
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 7: big that there are so many stories you can tell

1614
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 7: about it. And I couldn't have written my book without

1615
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 7: Jeff Chang having written Can't Stop the Albums Right? And

1616
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:06,720
Speaker 7: I couldn't have written it without Brian Coleman having done

1617
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:10,759
Speaker 7: check the technique. And not to even mention the smaller

1618
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 7: books that that the earlier ones that you know, David

1619
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 7: Tube had done and Nelson George had done a pretty

1620
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 7: good book hip Hip Hop America. I think it was

1621
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 7: called UH. And then of course like the smaller uh,

1622
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 7: you know, the books on smaller parts of the subject,

1623
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 7: like Ronan Roe's book on.

1624
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1625
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 7: So all of them are really important, and and I

1626
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:39,040
Speaker 7: stand on the shoulders of all those folks. But my

1627
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 7: issue was people really didn't understand that hip hop almost

1628
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:47,479
Speaker 7: didn't happen, right. They didn't understand like when I would

1629
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 7: read accounts of hip hop history, it was almost like

1630
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 7: run DMC made a record and then they were huge, right,

1631
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,680
Speaker 7: And that's not how it happened. People fought tooth and

1632
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 7: nail to make this stuff successful. It almost didn't happen.

1633
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 7: I mean, when we think about New York in nineteen

1634
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:11,559
Speaker 7: ninety radio was backing away from hip hop all over, right,

1635
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 7: mix shows were going away, So we were hot ninety

1636
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 7: seven as we know it, you know today was felt

1637
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 7: a million light years away. But people fought for it,

1638
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 7: and so people I wanted to tell the story of

1639
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 7: people like Keith Naftali, the very first pop radio programmer

1640
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:34,360
Speaker 7: to play hardcore hip hop in the daytime. We're talking NWA,

1641
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 7: Public Enemy, and other pop programmers across the country like

1642
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 7: Rick D's you know, thought it was laughable, you know

1643
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 7: that dangerous even and he did it, and he was

1644
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 7: so successful that he convinced other radio programmers eventually that

1645
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 7: this was, you know, something that was worth doing and

1646
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 7: ended decades of segregation in radio because of it. So

1647
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 7: I felt like that was the important story to tell

1648
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:03,280
Speaker 7: just for hip hop's sake. And then it's a great

1649
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 7: American story, you know. That's why it starts with Alexander

1650
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 7: Hamilton because I believe it embodies the same ethos.

1651
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: Can I ask, so since you were in Los Angeles

1652
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 1: for the greater part of the nineties, I mean, of course. Now,

1653
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 1: it's just it's such a different way, different feelium vibe

1654
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 1: and quick, quick backstory. So usually when guests come on,

1655
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: notable guests, especially New York based guests, come on the show,

1656
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated. One of the common denominator stories and

1657
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 1: experiences they have is they always have a tunnel not

1658
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 1: a tunnel Latin court iss story to tell. But for me,

1659
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm more amazed to the fact that they're

1660
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: willing to court this danger and almost romanticize about this

1661
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: period in which from my protected childhood eyes, it's like, Yo,

1662
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 1: why would you even go to a building and you

1663
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 1: might might be shot? Is it really that much? Is

1664
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:23,080
Speaker 1: it really worth it to hear? Nobody beats the biz? Like, like,

1665
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,200
Speaker 1: do you if that's the only place you're going you

1666
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 1: know you can hear it. Yeah, well that said living.

1667
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean I remember, like now when I go to La,

1668
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,519
Speaker 1: it's such a joyful feeling, like I'm going to LA

1669
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 1: and like I enjoy that feeling of landing you know La. Oh,

1670
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, hang with my friends and go to nice

1671
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 1: restaurants and it's fun. But there was a period in

1672
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:51,040
Speaker 1: LA where it's like, you know, we used to always

1673
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:55,320
Speaker 1: make sure we don't wear no blue, no red. Know

1674
01:33:55,439 --> 01:33:58,880
Speaker 1: where you you know, just know where you stand, don't

1675
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 1: cross anybody, you know, Mad Shug sightings Mad.

1676
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 7: It was like that.

1677
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 1: Yo. It's like Santha Nico so in to be in

1678
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: La during the period of Shug's rain, where any moment

1679
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 1: could be the moment where you could get got Like

1680
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 1: what was that like in that period? Like was it

1681
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: an enjoyable time or did you feel like you were

1682
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: so out of the circle that you could I wasn't

1683
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 1: that close to power, I guess in that way. And

1684
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,640
Speaker 1: I didn't fetish death row, you know what I mean.

1685
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 1: I didn't.

1686
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 7: I didn't want to be around those folks. I didn't

1687
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:42,519
Speaker 7: you know what I mean, You.

1688
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 1: Couldn't avoid it, Like the roots are the furthest thing

1689
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 1: from death row. But you know, Sugar and Pok once

1690
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: came to a show and I swear to God, even

1691
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 1: the air just suck out the room like it was

1692
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:03,640
Speaker 1: like it was like unavoidable. So how like, how did

1693
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 1: you manage m a atmosphere and musically magical but also

1694
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:10,679
Speaker 1: questionable as.

1695
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 7: Far as being naive and also the feeling that it's

1696
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 7: it was normal, you know, like when you're you know,

1697
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 7: that whole thing about the frog and water or whatever,

1698
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:24,160
Speaker 7: and you you know, it was just that was part

1699
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 7: of the environment. And I I just also have this

1700
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 7: philosophy that bullies go away. You know, if you wait

1701
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 7: long enough, they're going to fuck themselves up. So seven

1702
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:39,759
Speaker 7: years man, well, you know, in terms of his power,

1703
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 7: you know, his power was very short. And it turns

1704
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:45,600
Speaker 7: out a lot of the things that people think he

1705
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 7: did or legendary you know that he did, didn't do.

1706
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1707
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 7: Now I'm like, yeah, I didn't, he didn't.

1708
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, did you have first an experiences

1709
01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 1: with any besides Russell? And uh? I mean first hand

1710
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 1: experience is non interview, but just like and just daily

1711
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:10,720
Speaker 1: interaction with any of the uh, the subject matters that

1712
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 1: you profiled. Like as far as you being in the business, well,

1713
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 1: there are a few run ins with Dame Moore that

1714
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,280
Speaker 1: that's sort of There's just a few.

1715
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 7: Things that you know in the book that I was

1716
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 7: present for.

1717
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: Right.

1718
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 7: So there's that meeting, you know, that big cabal meeting,

1719
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:32,200
Speaker 7: you know, I mean there's that. You know that that

1720
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 7: that fake email that's been going around for years about

1721
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 7: the secret meeting in la you know where the prison

1722
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:42,720
Speaker 7: industrial complex and getting all the rappers this like.

1723
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 1: That wasn't really I.

1724
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:48,680
Speaker 7: Mean, but I did attend the real meeting, which was

1725
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:50,760
Speaker 7: you know, mo Austin calling all of his artists, the

1726
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 7: extended family of artists and into a conference room and saying, look,

1727
01:36:54,280 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 7: here's the deal, you know, And it was a very

1728
01:36:56,240 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 7: sad meeting. You know, I think he was sad as

1729
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 7: the person who signed to Prince and Joni Mitchell and

1730
01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:06,360
Speaker 7: James Taylor and you know all these other Jimmy Hendrix

1731
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 7: held uh you know, to be in that position it

1732
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 7: was humiliating for him. And then I was the person

1733
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 7: who had to go and basically create a dummy record

1734
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 7: company for Paris because Paris had gotten dropped off of

1735
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:25,559
Speaker 7: his And Rick said, I'm gonna put him on I'm

1736
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 7: gonna put on an American, but I can't put him

1737
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 7: on Americans. So we're going to create a whole new

1738
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 7: label for him. So I went to the Bay Area

1739
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:34,759
Speaker 7: basically helped create a label for Paris.

1740
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 1: Came scarface, scarface because that was that the one that's

1741
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 1: sleeping with the enemy came out on which which Ricord

1742
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:43,560
Speaker 1: was it? Was it because that was the one he

1743
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 1: wanted to call bush Killer.

1744
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 7: Originally I think bush Killer remained dude, but uh, I

1745
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 7: have to actually read The Big Payback to remember. So

1746
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:02,439
Speaker 7: after this you write the Big Payback? Was it anyone

1747
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 7: that was reluctant to talk to you? Like anyone that

1748
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 7: was just like nah.

1749
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just writes itself.

1750
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 7: There were people like I really wanted to talk to

1751
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:25,080
Speaker 7: Cindy Campbell, like Kirk's sister, because Jeff had done herk

1752
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,360
Speaker 7: right the artist, but I wanted a profile the business side,

1753
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:31,600
Speaker 7: and I approached Cindy Campbell and she wanted money, and

1754
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 7: I said this, I just don't do that. I'm a journalist.

1755
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 7: I don't pay anybody for an interview. So by you know,

1756
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 7: and obviously you're never gonna get Jay. You know, Jay

1757
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 7: Z in a room to interview him. So what you

1758
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,640
Speaker 7: do is you report around people as a journalist. You

1759
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 7: started the edges, and you go around and around in circles, circle,

1760
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 7: and finally there's only one person left right, and you

1761
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 7: can say to that person, you know, I'm not saying

1762
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 7: that I did this with Jay Z, but I'm about to,

1763
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:00,479
Speaker 7: you know, release a book that has a after on

1764
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 7: you or a section on you. I want to give

1765
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 7: you a chance to hear it before it goes out,

1766
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:09,479
Speaker 7: you know, and comment on it. So usually you know,

1767
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:11,400
Speaker 7: people will want to hear what you're going to write

1768
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 7: about them, and if you approach them respectfully. And whenever

1769
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 7: I interviewed somebody for the book, I always, you know,

1770
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:24,040
Speaker 7: I always uh offer them a readback, just because it's

1771
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 7: their story.

1772
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 2: So you never just do it blind. Just like everyone

1773
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 2: got yeah, they know, they knew what it was going

1774
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:31,679
Speaker 2: to be before.

1775
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:32,679
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah.

1776
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 7: There were people who were mad. More more people were

1777
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:38,000
Speaker 7: mad when they got left out of the book.

1778
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 1: I was going to say, like it wasn't disrespect no,

1779
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: no at all.

1780
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:46,080
Speaker 7: Search was mad at me for a little while because

1781
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 7: he gave me a lot of time and I the

1782
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:50,040
Speaker 7: section that he was in ended up getting cut and

1783
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:51,800
Speaker 7: I apologize to him over that.

1784
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 1: Now search has a lot of stories.

1785
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 7: Great, he was great and he's still great.

1786
01:39:56,720 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 1: We'll put it this way. We barely got to the

1787
01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:05,519
Speaker 1: Cactus CD for de second album. Yeah, we barely got

1788
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:07,920
Speaker 1: to Derrelick's dialect before. It's like, oh, hey's trying to

1789
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 1: wrap like three hours.

1790
01:40:09,400 --> 01:40:10,479
Speaker 7: Talk about the Latin Quarter.

1791
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:17,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, the quintessential Latin Quarter stories, the Big Pigback.

1792
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 1: So how does this go from because now you've never

1793
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 1: even told me this story, I don't know. How does

1794
01:40:24,720 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: that go from book to movie to series on h one? Okay,

1795
01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:31,559
Speaker 1: what was that journey?

1796
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 3: Like?

1797
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 7: Even before the book came out, there were some Hollywood

1798
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 7: types calling, you know, hey, like a meeting whatever, and

1799
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 7: you know, so originally I wanted to do it. Have

1800
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 7: you ever seen the HBO movie The Late Shift, Yes,

1801
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:48,599
Speaker 7: about the whole letter let fight. Yeah, so I wanted

1802
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:54,280
Speaker 7: to do a you know, a drama, but with the

1803
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 7: real characters, right a Rick Russell dre you know, hiring

1804
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,680
Speaker 7: actors to play the real people. And that's a real

1805
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 7: problem for Hollywood, Like they have to buy all kinds

1806
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,400
Speaker 7: of life rights even though it may be true. You know,

1807
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 7: so Eventually it came down to, you know, that wasn't

1808
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 7: going to happen, and I sort of gave up because

1809
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 7: I didn't. I didn't want to do a fictional, fictionalized

1810
01:41:18,479 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 7: version of hip hop history. It was coiny to me,

1811
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:24,200
Speaker 7: you know, especially because anytime you had a portrayal of

1812
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 7: hip hop in some dramatic fashion, it was always like

1813
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:32,560
Speaker 7: just wrong. Like I remember the Sopranos had Bokeen Woodbine

1814
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 7: as massive genius, right, like I didn't want to do that,

1815
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 7: you know, and and to make how you're gonna make

1816
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 7: the music sound good period, right, And this is where

1817
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 7: you come in. So what happened was actually Boz Lherman

1818
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 7: to Boz Lehman. You know, my people have read my

1819
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 7: team has read your book, and my team has read

1820
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 7: your book, and team told me I should meet with you.

1821
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 7: And this was in the early stages of what would

1822
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 7: be come to get down. But he was in the

1823
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:15,920
Speaker 7: middle of doing Gatsby. He was very nice. But what

1824
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:19,200
Speaker 7: happened was I had an opportunity at VH one to

1825
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:22,439
Speaker 7: pitch them, but I could only pitch them if it

1826
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:27,680
Speaker 7: was a dramatic, you know, fictionalized dramatic. So I just

1827
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:29,560
Speaker 7: did it. I came up with a story. You know,

1828
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 7: I eventually got over myself, and I came up with

1829
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 7: a story about three college friends who graduate in the

1830
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 7: summer of nineteen ninety. Sort of aligns with my own

1831
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 7: personal story. But also I think it's a really really

1832
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 7: important time in hip hop. It's like that time where

1833
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:47,960
Speaker 7: it could have become everything or nothing. Right.

1834
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 1: It was the year that.

1835
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:55,120
Speaker 7: Run DMC and Beastie Boys were blown away in sales

1836
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 7: by Hammer and Vanilla Ice, and it looked like the

1837
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 7: future was going to be this minstrel show, right, So

1838
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 7: UH shout out to a little brother.

1839
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 1: So he bought.

1840
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 7: But I'm not.

1841
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:14,240
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about it, okay.

1842
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:21,599
Speaker 7: So Uh, I worked on the on the on the pitch,

1843
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:23,880
Speaker 7: and I pitched it in a room in about ten

1844
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 7: minutes and they bought it. And then there's the long

1845
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:31,200
Speaker 7: process of developing it. And the first part of development

1846
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:34,479
Speaker 7: is to find a director, writer who can actually get

1847
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 7: this stuff on the screen. And I just I wasn't

1848
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:41,599
Speaker 7: selling myself as that person, so I remained as an

1849
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,640
Speaker 7: executive producer. But seeth Man was the the guy we

1850
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:46,680
Speaker 7: luckily found to helmet.

1851
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 1: And Seeth is uh for those Seeth is a god

1852
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 1: TV director. He's done Man, several episodes of The Wire,

1853
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:56,560
Speaker 1: He's done did he do? Did he work on t

1854
01:43:56,920 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 1: did he do?

1855
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,280
Speaker 7: Or did? But he did Walking Dead? I want to

1856
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 7: believe and Elementary at least did.

1857
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 1: He Yeah, I don't want to give that away with you.

1858
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:12,720
Speaker 7: So Seith is great and Seeth, you know, I grew

1859
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:14,679
Speaker 7: up in Columbia, Maryland. He grew up in Silver Spring.

1860
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:17,000
Speaker 7: Were up listening to the same stations. We both listen

1861
01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 7: to hip hop and and and Go go, and so

1862
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:22,400
Speaker 7: we have even though he's like seven feet tall and

1863
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 7: I'm four feet tall, and you know, he's black and

1864
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:27,280
Speaker 7: I'm white, and he's got dreads and I got no hair,

1865
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 7: we were you know, we uh, he's my brother, you know,

1866
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 7: and he has done so. He did a great job

1867
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,960
Speaker 7: on the pilot script. And then it came whore, how

1868
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 7: are we going to create this musical universe? And prem

1869
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 7: DJ Premiere was first on the list, and I reached

1870
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 7: out to him, and you know, I met Pream when

1871
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:55,439
Speaker 7: I interned for.

1872
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:56,040
Speaker 1: A while Pitch.

1873
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 7: There was like a little slumber of time before I

1874
01:44:59,120 --> 01:44:59,759
Speaker 7: worked for Profile.

1875
01:45:00,040 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 1: I did it.

1876
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:02,120
Speaker 7: I interned for eighty nine.

1877
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,400
Speaker 1: So was that Uh as a jet sledge, as a

1878
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:11,479
Speaker 1: hip hop astorian? Do you have multiple copies of Bust

1879
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 1: to Move Boy? And if you do, can you share

1880
01:45:17,240 --> 01:45:18,040
Speaker 1: gang stars?

1881
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:18,439
Speaker 6: Uh?

1882
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:25,600
Speaker 1: I had three twelve inches before no more mistic a

1883
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: nice guy out.

1884
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:31,840
Speaker 7: I'm afraid I do not, damn, but I think I

1885
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 7: know somebody might.

1886
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:37,960
Speaker 1: No, I knows a guy. Yeah, I'm looking for Bust

1887
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 1: to Move boy. I would do anything to have a

1888
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:45,400
Speaker 1: one records back in running order, not online, but like

1889
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:49,320
Speaker 1: not a one the sound library, Oh.

1890
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 6: Celebrary man, Well, guys, a writer question, when you went

1891
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:56,360
Speaker 6: to bah one with your pitch, what did you have exactly?

1892
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 6: Because you didn't have a rundown of with the show

1893
01:45:58,520 --> 01:45:59,799
Speaker 6: totally was gonna be for the season.

1894
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:00,840
Speaker 1: I did.

1895
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 7: It was just in my head. So I pitched in

1896
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,520
Speaker 7: a room from off the dome freestyle.

1897
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 6: That son and what was so what was the line?

1898
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:15,920
Speaker 6: Like what was the tag? Like the one line the

1899
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 6: long line of the show kind of that way like

1900
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:20,479
Speaker 6: the really summer Yeah, I.

1901
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 7: Mean I think we may have said something like it's

1902
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:24,320
Speaker 7: sort of like the hip hop mad Men. You know,

1903
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:27,600
Speaker 7: we might have said something like that, but you know,

1904
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,599
Speaker 7: it's it was about the business and what was really

1905
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:34,160
Speaker 7: important is that we had a really strong female lead character,

1906
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 7: really interesting and very complex, and you know, a liar,

1907
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,759
Speaker 7: a pathological liar makes her interesting.

1908
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:44,679
Speaker 6: I didn't pick up in the pilot.

1909
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, is fucking oh god, she's And we

1910
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 2: talked about it how and you know the way it

1911
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:56,400
Speaker 2: worked out, we're we kind of have a I don't

1912
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:58,560
Speaker 2: know if it's a renaissance, but there's a lot of

1913
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:01,719
Speaker 2: you're seeing kind of the black female anti hero character

1914
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 2: on TV now where you have you know, I mean

1915
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:08,840
Speaker 2: Cookie and Mary Jane and Olivia Pope.

1916
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:10,960
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, where you have anti they're

1917
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:13,560
Speaker 1: not the typical well anti hero in the sense that

1918
01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:16,120
Speaker 1: they are people that you They're not just a foil.

1919
01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:18,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not just like the good person like I mean,

1920
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 2: they're they're complex people, you know what I mean, And

1921
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,599
Speaker 2: they're not just totally all good. And Nikki's character when

1922
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:27,400
Speaker 2: I when you sent me the script, I read it,

1923
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:29,559
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, she's gonna fall.

1924
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:32,080
Speaker 1: And I didn't know who you were gonna cast. I

1925
01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:32,960
Speaker 1: didn't know who.

1926
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:34,120
Speaker 7: We didn't know either.

1927
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:35,519
Speaker 8: You get involved in the show.

1928
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:38,800
Speaker 1: How did I get involved in the show. I don't

1929
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 1: even how did I get hired. Preme was the first

1930
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 1: step right, the music right.

1931
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 7: So I wanted to make sure that we had somebody

1932
01:47:45,439 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 7: who understood the vocabulary, the sonic vocabulary at the time,

1933
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,400
Speaker 7: and would be able to make beats that sounded like

1934
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:54,320
Speaker 7: they were because if we have a character who's a

1935
01:47:54,439 --> 01:47:57,920
Speaker 7: rapper and another character who's a producer, the producer has

1936
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:00,840
Speaker 7: to make beats exactly like they would be made in

1937
01:48:00,920 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety, using the same samples, and using samples, using breaks,

1938
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:09,720
Speaker 7: very important, very important. And then we needed to have

1939
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:13,679
Speaker 7: an MC who also spoke in the vocabulary and cadence

1940
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 7: of the time. And I knew only what there was.

1941
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:18,920
Speaker 7: I had a list and Preem was at the top

1942
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,080
Speaker 7: of it. But there was only one person. There was

1943
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:24,559
Speaker 7: only one person that I wanted to get for lyrics

1944
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 7: producer for the show, and that was Fante Coleman. And

1945
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:34,639
Speaker 7: I will tell you why, because Fante had again shout

1946
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:36,840
Speaker 7: out to James Lopez, who hit me to all of

1947
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:40,599
Speaker 7: this stuff. James had given me when I moved back

1948
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:42,920
Speaker 7: to New York a copy of the story of Us

1949
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:48,880
Speaker 7: Oh my God. And Fante plays like basically, he plays

1950
01:48:48,920 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 7: the part of a you know, a rapper, trying to

1951
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:54,960
Speaker 7: see trying to get a deal by being basically everybody

1952
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:57,600
Speaker 7: else in the game. So at one point, Fante is

1953
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 7: all the guys in the Wu Tang clan know, uh,

1954
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:05,599
Speaker 7: you do the you know, sort of the lyrical miracle, Yeah,

1955
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 7: the underground and then your Percy miracles. And it was

1956
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 7: just like that you are the master of voices, and

1957
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:15,600
Speaker 7: I knew that you would understand in a way that

1958
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:19,920
Speaker 7: it was just like could just let go, and even

1959
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:23,040
Speaker 7: even more like the more that you and Prem. First

1960
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:25,600
Speaker 7: of all, you and Prem have a fantastic working relationship

1961
01:49:25,680 --> 01:49:29,919
Speaker 7: together and he trusts you implicitly, and when Prem produces,

1962
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 7: he has you, honest his co producer. By just that's it.

1963
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was wild. That was wild.

1964
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 2: I mean when y'all reached out to about it, I

1965
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,360
Speaker 2: was just coming off of an HBO pilot that I

1966
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:49,320
Speaker 2: was working on, and so I mean TV, you know, yeah,

1967
01:49:49,360 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 2: the Maya thing, the thing with Mayam Buthar.

1968
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 1: Maya Maya. So yeah, so I was coming off of that,

1969
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:01,200
Speaker 1: and so so you were like, yeah, man, so I

1970
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:03,000
Speaker 1: got this thing. I'm like TV, I'm like, oh god,

1971
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 1: I'm ready for like a million rewrites a million edits whatever.

1972
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, whatever. So you're like, yo, man,

1973
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: I got this thing and I don't know exactly what

1974
01:50:10,439 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 1: it's gonna be, but you know, this is what it is.

1975
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, look, dude, send it to me. Let's do it.

1976
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, those records that for those first records, we

1977
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:19,479
Speaker 1: did the arm.

1978
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:25,960
Speaker 2: God it was the arm song his song God at

1979
01:50:26,080 --> 01:50:28,679
Speaker 2: least expected Yeah, God, we did that. Those are records

1980
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:30,680
Speaker 2: that I cut in my house, and I mean we

1981
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 2: pretty much. I wanted to make it so that it's

1982
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 2: kind of tricky because you're writing in nineteen ninety. You're

1983
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:41,519
Speaker 2: writing for nineteen ninety, but you're writing for an audience

1984
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,320
Speaker 2: that is current day.

1985
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:46,640
Speaker 1: So it has to work on both levels. It has

1986
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:48,880
Speaker 1: to be true to the times, but at the same time,

1987
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 1: it has to while the audience of now so that

1988
01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 1: they can understand why this guy would be the shit

1989
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:57,439
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety, you know what I mean.

1990
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:00,679
Speaker 2: And the fact that it's fictional makes it a little

1991
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:04,320
Speaker 2: bit harder as as you know, as MC, because you

1992
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:07,639
Speaker 2: know it's fiction. So it's like, you know, the Zample

1993
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:13,400
Speaker 2: always give the scene in Notorious where Biggie is freestyling outside,

1994
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:15,519
Speaker 2: you know, what I'm saying, and they're kicking his actual

1995
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:17,800
Speaker 2: that was his actual freestyle, you know what I mean.

1996
01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:22,120
Speaker 2: And that freestyle lyrically, it ain't miraculous, you know what

1997
01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 2: I'm saying, but it's accurate to what he was saying

1998
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 2: at that time. The freestyle where he's dissing the dude

1999
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:30,360
Speaker 2: in front of the side. Yeah, in Notaria when he's

2000
01:51:30,439 --> 01:51:32,400
Speaker 2: dising the dude. Love that freestyle, No.

2001
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:35,400
Speaker 1: I love it, But I'm just saying it was dope

2002
01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:38,120
Speaker 1: because that was accurate to what he said then. From

2003
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:41,800
Speaker 1: now in twenty seventeen, I mean, someone that's hurt Royster

2004
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:44,759
Speaker 1: five to nine or black thought hearing that shit is like, Okay,

2005
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 1: it was cool, you know what I mean, But at

2006
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:49,080
Speaker 1: the time it was ahead. So so that's kind of

2007
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:53,599
Speaker 1: the trick. Can I ask you how important like I'm

2008
01:51:53,840 --> 01:52:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a showrunner's nightmare on social media, like I

2009
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 1: think Nelson is just about talking to me again right

2010
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:13,640
Speaker 1: now to get down Well, you know, for me, the

2011
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:16,439
Speaker 1: reason why I'm so glad you said that about like

2012
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:20,000
Speaker 1: you wanted to really portray the times as they were.

2013
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:25,280
Speaker 1: How important is it to you at least from uh

2014
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:29,880
Speaker 1: in doing this project? Are the music cues to you

2015
01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:35,800
Speaker 1: because like, that's the show. Is the whole show? Okay, Well,

2016
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,640
Speaker 1: now not not to I'm not trying to you know,

2017
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:45,320
Speaker 1: play you know, Devil's not not Devil's advocate. What do

2018
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 1: you call it. I'm not trying to instigate. No, no,

2019
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be an instigate. Assuming you watched

2020
01:52:54,479 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 1: the other show, how did you feel, like did you

2021
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:03,639
Speaker 1: notes like, Okay, that's not accurate. That's not accurate, Matt qu'

2022
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:04,240
Speaker 1: is not accurate.

2023
01:53:04,320 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 7: And I will be honest. One of the problems with

2024
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:14,240
Speaker 7: making TV, especially making TV while you accurate teaching, uh

2025
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:17,559
Speaker 7: you know, as a profession, is that you don't get

2026
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:19,720
Speaker 7: to watch a lot of TV. So I watched the

2027
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:24,600
Speaker 7: first couple episodes and I understood right away that you

2028
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:28,959
Speaker 7: get down to a very different animal. And it's magical realism.

2029
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:32,400
Speaker 7: And that's not what we were trying to do. We're

2030
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:36,000
Speaker 7: we're doing you know, realism, right, And there's nothing wrong

2031
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:36,840
Speaker 7: with magical realism.

2032
01:53:36,920 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 1: Like it's an interesting term.

2033
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:39,040
Speaker 6: It sounds like alternative facts.

2034
01:53:42,800 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 7: It's like what it's like what Tony Morrison does right,

2035
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 7: except for film, right, It's like it's it's it is

2036
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:54,640
Speaker 7: a beautiful romantic vision of what the Bronx was and

2037
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:57,760
Speaker 7: is in people's minds. And even that it's funny because

2038
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:02,280
Speaker 7: you would people from the Bronx from that time, that's

2039
01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 7: how they remember it as beautiful, right, even though it

2040
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:08,960
Speaker 7: was a really really I mean, there were parts of

2041
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 7: The Bronx that felt and looked desolate, but it didn't

2042
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 7: wasn't desolate culturally to them. So I'm not mad at

2043
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:18,240
Speaker 7: the get down, but it's just a very different show.

2044
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 7: And also about five times the budget, maybe ten times

2045
01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:25,160
Speaker 7: the budget of The Breaks, you know, so it's a

2046
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:26,800
Speaker 7: very different kind of.

2047
01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:31,640
Speaker 1: But it's like, okay, so after you developed something and

2048
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:36,640
Speaker 1: then you put it in the hands of the production company,

2049
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 1: the producers, the directions like other people, and how much

2050
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:54,000
Speaker 1: are you willing to let your child metaphorically speaking, play

2051
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:55,600
Speaker 1: with others? Are you willing to turn your back for

2052
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:57,960
Speaker 1: a little bit and do something else and trust that

2053
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:02,720
Speaker 1: it's okay? Is it just like all right, let's cut corners?

2054
01:55:02,920 --> 01:55:07,560
Speaker 1: Like for me, I've sat in many a room with

2055
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 1: many a writer and I just really have this disdain

2056
01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:17,800
Speaker 1: for their attitude of like music as such an afterthought.

2057
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 1: I it's really not that important, you know, Like Okay, well,

2058
01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:24,160
Speaker 1: I know we're in nineteen seventy nine and we gonna

2059
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:26,040
Speaker 1: play a song that came out in eighty four. You

2060
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:30,920
Speaker 1: know it's cool. Yeah, okay, okay, so the New Addition film,

2061
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:34,480
Speaker 1: shout out to my brother Barrycole, I'm not coming at

2062
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:39,160
Speaker 1: your neck. But he kind of corrected me on Twitter.

2063
01:55:39,400 --> 01:55:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a scene where Ricky and Bobby

2064
01:55:43,360 --> 01:55:46,800
Speaker 1: and Ron were on the tour bus. We're talking to

2065
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,000
Speaker 1: each other and Ricky takes his walkman off, his cassette

2066
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:56,520
Speaker 1: walkman off. But I clearly heard the shack up drum

2067
01:55:56,640 --> 01:56:05,920
Speaker 1: break that was you in the Belbe deevo Ain't nothing change,

2068
01:56:07,160 --> 01:56:09,440
Speaker 1: which was you know, I mean, this is eighty five.

2069
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:12,120
Speaker 1: They're in the nineteen eighty five Greyhound tour bus going

2070
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 1: back to the Boston Projects, listening to a breakbeat that

2071
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:20,840
Speaker 1: Ricky Bell himself will use seven years now. But you know,

2072
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:24,800
Speaker 1: he kind of had that that correction, like no, that

2073
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:27,200
Speaker 1: was talking all that jazz by stut of Sonic, and

2074
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to come back like, well still that was

2075
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: still nineteen eighty eight. That was for but I mean

2076
01:56:34,320 --> 01:56:39,320
Speaker 1: for me, how I know that people cut corners and okay,

2077
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:41,960
Speaker 1: well we couldn't clear that song, and we just want

2078
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:44,840
Speaker 1: to move time along and using music's used for moving

2079
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:48,879
Speaker 1: time along. So it's like, how much of a stickler

2080
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:53,680
Speaker 1: are you for keeping that as accurate as possible.

2081
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:56,880
Speaker 7: I'm a stickler because Seeth believes in it, you know

2082
01:56:56,920 --> 01:57:02,200
Speaker 7: what I mean. Seeth really values the authenticity part of it.

2083
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:04,840
Speaker 7: And we have this sort of language with each other

2084
01:57:04,920 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 7: where we talk about the Authenticity Bank account, right, and

2085
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 7: you know you're gonna make withdraws right, we have like

2086
01:57:12,600 --> 01:57:15,960
Speaker 7: I think it takes place in the summer nineteen ninety,

2087
01:57:16,040 --> 01:57:18,160
Speaker 7: but maybe looking at the front door, I think was

2088
01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:21,480
Speaker 7: something that we made a slight you know, exception for

2089
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 7: it did come out in nineteen ninety, but it came

2090
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:26,160
Speaker 7: out later in nineteen ninety. I think also Just to

2091
01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:28,560
Speaker 7: Get a Wrap came out later on in nineteen ninety,

2092
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:32,480
Speaker 7: but it was it was that's the kind of trade

2093
01:57:32,520 --> 01:57:35,600
Speaker 7: off we're we're willing to make. There are other trade offs.

2094
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:37,840
Speaker 7: There are other sort of withdrawals from the Authenticity Bank

2095
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:40,640
Speaker 7: account that don't pay off. Like I'm not going to allow,

2096
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 7: you know, a breakbeat from another time.

2097
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:46,880
Speaker 1: I was going to say, you know, premull get away

2098
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:51,240
Speaker 1: with one in this business of Repnah. No, we kept it.

2099
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:53,640
Speaker 1: Now we keep it well, all of our you know,

2100
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:56,720
Speaker 1: with the scratches, we keep them so far, we keep

2101
01:57:56,760 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 1: it all you know stuff. Oh yeah, stuff that was

2102
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:02,320
Speaker 1: of that time, well before that time actually.

2103
01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:06,240
Speaker 7: So we've actually been in the studio right with Preem

2104
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:09,680
Speaker 7: and there's been something that he wanted to do or whatever,

2105
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:12,320
Speaker 7: and we're like, oh no, that's too it's too early.

2106
01:58:12,640 --> 01:58:15,440
Speaker 7: And even with lyrics, we've had a few. Yeah, I

2107
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 7: think it was the lyrics I said it was. It

2108
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:19,839
Speaker 7: was one lyric in the in the uh in the pilot,

2109
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 7: I said something like, oh god, what was it? It was.

2110
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:27,600
Speaker 1: Puff mad l's I think was the line, and we

2111
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:31,000
Speaker 1: was like, in nineteen ninety it wasn't puffing mad ls.

2112
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:34,200
Speaker 1: So we changed it to something else because the original

2113
01:58:34,240 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 1: line was, how was it girlies on my job? Puff

2114
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:41,200
Speaker 1: mad ls till I see blue like gargamele. So we

2115
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:44,160
Speaker 1: changed it to girlies on my job hard as hell,

2116
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:46,400
Speaker 1: make him do the smurf like gargamele.

2117
01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:48,520
Speaker 7: And so that was what that was.

2118
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 1: That was even but even the chorus.

2119
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:57,240
Speaker 7: We were talking about the chorus right in your chorus

2120
01:58:57,520 --> 01:58:59,960
Speaker 7: was Joe Rock Baby Baby, And.

2121
01:59:00,040 --> 01:59:02,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was even and that's something I got.

2122
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:05,160
Speaker 1: It was, but I thought it was too much of

2123
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:08,200
Speaker 1: town Baby, which is I was totally not even thinking that.

2124
01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:11,360
Speaker 7: So I was like, we'll just do Joe rock y'all NonStop,

2125
01:59:11,440 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 7: y'all is more.

2126
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 1: But I think we kept rock Baby, rock Baby, Joe Baby.

2127
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:21,400
Speaker 1: What is the quintessential hook in nineteen ninety, Well, the

2128
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:24,280
Speaker 1: thing is like Trive had no hook.

2129
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 2: Or well in nineteen ninety what it was was it

2130
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:32,400
Speaker 2: wasn't really hooks. Your hook was the last two bars

2131
01:59:32,440 --> 01:59:35,040
Speaker 2: of your rhyme. So it would be the last two

2132
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:37,760
Speaker 2: bars of your song, so what you're.

2133
01:59:37,600 --> 01:59:40,879
Speaker 1: Saying, and then it goes into the break the scratches

2134
01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:43,160
Speaker 1: or an instrument or horn or whatever the fuck. So

2135
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 1: that was kind of the way we play it. And uh, yeah, man,

2136
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:49,600
Speaker 1: I mean I'm lucky that we are. We have actors

2137
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:53,000
Speaker 1: like Antoine is just a motherfucker unbelievable.

2138
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 6: Can y'all break down how many different personality like rap

2139
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:03,280
Speaker 6: did you have to write for different personalities from Antoine?

2140
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:06,880
Speaker 7: Who are so I said, tough job this season?

2141
02:00:07,160 --> 02:00:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was, but we made it

2142
02:00:09,200 --> 02:00:10,800
Speaker 1: through it though for this one.

2143
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:14,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so uh for those that watch the show, it's

2144
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:17,040
Speaker 2: the story of you know, it tells, like Dan was

2145
02:00:17,120 --> 02:00:19,840
Speaker 2: saying earlier, tells these different stories of different people in

2146
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:23,880
Speaker 2: the business at that time. And so, uh, the main

2147
02:00:24,120 --> 02:00:27,360
Speaker 2: guy that I write for is played by Antoine Harris.

2148
02:00:27,560 --> 02:00:30,400
Speaker 1: Big ups to him. He is like the street guy

2149
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:34,640
Speaker 1: who is you know, really talented. So he's a guy.

2150
02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:36,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is something that we

2151
02:00:36,680 --> 02:00:38,720
Speaker 1: can maybe if y'all are still figuring out, I think

2152
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 1: we're still last conversation we had, I think we're still

2153
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:44,400
Speaker 1: trying to see if he's gonna be the guy or

2154
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:46,960
Speaker 1: if he's gonna be the guy who inspires the guy,

2155
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:49,640
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like that's still because he's

2156
02:00:49,640 --> 02:00:52,200
Speaker 1: a motherfucker, but like is he gonna be jay Z

2157
02:00:52,440 --> 02:00:53,400
Speaker 1: or is he gonna be Jazz?

2158
02:00:53,440 --> 02:00:53,520
Speaker 7: Oh?

2159
02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:56,280
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like that's still that still

2160
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 1: remains to.

2161
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:59,200
Speaker 6: Be because he's like hell respected in the streets. Like

2162
02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:01,240
Speaker 6: it's like you got to go through hell people to

2163
02:01:01,280 --> 02:01:01,720
Speaker 6: get to him.

2164
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:04,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like the he's the man. And then in

2165
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:07,240
Speaker 1: like season one, this you know, as this season.

2166
02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:10,600
Speaker 2: Goes on, you'll see other stuff that solidifies, like he's

2167
02:01:10,720 --> 02:01:12,560
Speaker 2: really like the fucking he's the guy.

2168
02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:16,640
Speaker 1: So it's him, He's the He's the main guy. Then

2169
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:21,640
Speaker 1: there's uh oh Man. Then there's uh Imani X played

2170
02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 1: by Tianna Taylor. She's the girl who is like, she's

2171
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 1: like a like a Latifa like, she's kind of tom boyish.

2172
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:37,400
Speaker 1: Me isis revel So she's that ship.

2173
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:42,080
Speaker 2: And the kind of the conflict that we'll see later

2174
02:01:42,200 --> 02:01:47,040
Speaker 2: on uh is her mother played by Kim Wayns a

2175
02:01:47,200 --> 02:01:50,880
Speaker 2: hilarious fucking Kim Wayns plays by Kim Wayns.

2176
02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:52,720
Speaker 1: Her mother kind of wants her to be more of

2177
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:55,360
Speaker 1: like a kind of salt and pepper, you know, uh

2178
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,880
Speaker 1: female lem see. So that's you know, her thing. So

2179
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:02,280
Speaker 1: I had to write for her. And so the not

2180
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:04,440
Speaker 1: really the conflict that we had, but just the thing

2181
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:08,240
Speaker 1: that we hit towards the end of this season was

2182
02:02:08,280 --> 02:02:12,760
Speaker 1: that I didn't want Imani to sound like a female

2183
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:15,680
Speaker 1: version of So you have to I had to. You

2184
02:02:15,800 --> 02:02:17,400
Speaker 1: have to approach it in a way. It's like, all right,

2185
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:19,640
Speaker 1: I want her to be dope, but she can't just

2186
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:22,360
Speaker 1: be just the female, the female version of this guy.

2187
02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 1: She has to have something about her. How do you

2188
02:02:25,080 --> 02:02:27,960
Speaker 1: channel all these I mean, you're like the hip hop

2189
02:02:28,040 --> 02:02:32,040
Speaker 1: version of split Man. How do you how do you

2190
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:35,640
Speaker 1: channel all of these in an authentic way at that

2191
02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:39,800
Speaker 1: I mean on the spot, do you find that working okay?

2192
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:43,280
Speaker 1: Now finding someone that I can relate to, like on

2193
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:47,760
Speaker 1: working on television when you have to instantly come up

2194
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:50,560
Speaker 1: with something, I don't overthink it. Yeah, Like how do

2195
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:51,200
Speaker 1: you deal with that?

2196
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:51,560
Speaker 6: Man?

2197
02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:54,080
Speaker 1: You just gotta you just gotta just write it. I mean,

2198
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:57,080
Speaker 1: what is your process? You just sit alone? Yeah? I

2199
02:02:57,480 --> 02:02:59,800
Speaker 1: generally always work alone. I never really work with anyone,

2200
02:03:00,240 --> 02:03:03,520
Speaker 1: you know, record myself and like injureding myself and uh,

2201
02:03:03,760 --> 02:03:07,680
Speaker 1: I pretty much just in the time of like for

2202
02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:13,640
Speaker 1: arm for his main song, the idea was, without giving

2203
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:16,440
Speaker 1: away too many plot points, well, in the within the pilot,

2204
02:03:16,760 --> 02:03:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, his friend has been killed. So the idea was, okay,

2205
02:03:23,200 --> 02:03:26,840
Speaker 1: we got I gotta take him through the stages of death,

2206
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:28,400
Speaker 1: the stages of grief.

2207
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:31,960
Speaker 2: So the first song that he does is you know,

2208
02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:34,640
Speaker 2: it's just straight anger. It's just like, we're gonna get

2209
02:03:34,680 --> 02:03:36,000
Speaker 2: them niggas, y'all kill my homie.

2210
02:03:36,640 --> 02:03:38,720
Speaker 1: We about to set it. It's just anger. And then

2211
02:03:39,400 --> 02:03:41,120
Speaker 1: later on in this season you'll see he has some

2212
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:44,720
Speaker 1: other stuff that takes him through the other stages of grief.

2213
02:03:44,960 --> 02:03:46,880
Speaker 1: So it's just putting yourself in that character and what

2214
02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:47,560
Speaker 1: they would feel.

2215
02:03:47,720 --> 02:03:50,280
Speaker 7: First of the first season feels more like denial.

2216
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 2: They're not exacts, so it's just I try to put

2217
02:03:56,040 --> 02:03:59,400
Speaker 2: myself in each character's shoes and seek how they would

2218
02:03:59,400 --> 02:04:02,440
Speaker 2: feel and just you know, right in from that perspective.

2219
02:04:02,480 --> 02:04:04,600
Speaker 6: But what's interesting is and just by talking to you,

2220
02:04:04,760 --> 02:04:06,400
Speaker 6: like those are the two dope people, right, So is

2221
02:04:06,440 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 6: it easier to write for the dope lyrics or because

2222
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:14,320
Speaker 6: now you got to write for like mediocre purpose fun.

2223
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:18,760
Speaker 1: I feel like it's fun to write for It's well, okay,

2224
02:04:19,440 --> 02:04:22,000
Speaker 1: loves it. I had, but I run into a problem

2225
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:27,200
Speaker 1: I just drew on. Yeah, I have problems. So we

2226
02:04:27,320 --> 02:04:30,160
Speaker 1: have battle scenes as well, right, so we have battles.

2227
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:33,480
Speaker 6: That you have to right and so battling yourself basically.

2228
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a mirror match. It's like the fucking mirror

2229
02:04:35,200 --> 02:04:39,120
Speaker 2: match in fucking uh In in Mortal Comeback. So for me,

2230
02:04:40,240 --> 02:04:43,800
Speaker 2: the problem I was running into was that I like

2231
02:04:44,040 --> 02:04:47,880
Speaker 2: to be the villain. So like my villain versus was

2232
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,840
Speaker 2: murder and the guy that was actually spposed to win

2233
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:54,800
Speaker 2: the battle on camera them versus was like cool, Like

2234
02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:57,240
Speaker 2: my first draft would be like it's cool, but you

2235
02:04:57,400 --> 02:04:58,280
Speaker 2: need a little more.

2236
02:04:58,720 --> 02:05:01,040
Speaker 7: So I had to and that was the only network

2237
02:05:01,120 --> 02:05:02,600
Speaker 7: note you got on the pilot.

2238
02:05:02,800 --> 02:05:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like she was like, She's like, I

2239
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:05,920
Speaker 1: really think it feels like uh.

2240
02:05:07,440 --> 02:05:10,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, the other guy won and so I empires good.

2241
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:11,440
Speaker 6: You corrected that.

2242
02:05:11,720 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went back and like I did another draft

2243
02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 1: and they okayed it. And so the thing was in

2244
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:19,480
Speaker 1: that first battle with in the pilot with Sieg and

2245
02:05:19,880 --> 02:05:26,040
Speaker 1: uh Sig played by u Si play by the idea

2246
02:05:26,240 --> 02:05:30,680
Speaker 1: was that, Okay, toy Ray is gonna the main guy.

2247
02:05:32,640 --> 02:05:36,000
Speaker 2: Is gonna win the war, so to speak, but to

2248
02:05:36,280 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 2: Ray is still gonna kind of win the battle. And

2249
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:42,040
Speaker 2: to me that felt authentic because I remember coming up battling.

2250
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:44,560
Speaker 2: You would see all those guys who would win all

2251
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:46,920
Speaker 2: the battles. They would just be freestyling and could just

2252
02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:49,160
Speaker 2: go on and talk about your mom and make up

2253
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:51,920
Speaker 2: ship whatever. But they couldn't make records to save their

2254
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:53,920
Speaker 2: fucking lives. Like they fucking suck.

2255
02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:57,120
Speaker 1: I have a story.

2256
02:05:57,800 --> 02:05:57,920
Speaker 6: Uh.

2257
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:02,280
Speaker 1: The first week that we mixed do You Want More?

2258
02:06:02,320 --> 02:06:06,560
Speaker 1: At Battery Studios, we were next in the b room

2259
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:14,440
Speaker 1: was supernatural. Now if you remember, wait, I just said

2260
02:06:14,520 --> 02:06:23,120
Speaker 1: I just coughed all right, all right, so okay, boys

2261
02:06:23,160 --> 02:06:26,960
Speaker 1: and girls. And he was on East West. Yes. So

2262
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:32,200
Speaker 1: when in nineteen ninety three at the New Music Seminar,

2263
02:06:33,800 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 1: I remember, it was all about skills and it was

2264
02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 1: all about Supernatural that particular year, and Supernat signed to

2265
02:06:42,880 --> 02:06:45,560
Speaker 1: East West and so he was in the b room

2266
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:49,000
Speaker 1: of Battery Studios, and we were in the a room

2267
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:55,120
Speaker 1: a Battery Studios, mixing our stuff and we occasionally That's

2268
02:06:55,240 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 1: kind of how we met Roselle. Roselle was kind of

2269
02:06:57,600 --> 02:07:06,919
Speaker 1: in Supernat's like and Supernatural totally just freestyle everything, his shows,

2270
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:13,280
Speaker 1: his his aulus and all I remember it was I

2271
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:15,800
Speaker 1: went in his room. Me and Jerik sat in his

2272
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:18,720
Speaker 1: room and he had the single if I was King.

2273
02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:22,400
Speaker 1: If I was King, I ruled everything if I was King,

2274
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:25,760
Speaker 1: And then he did a verse right, let me take

2275
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:28,040
Speaker 1: it from the top again, if I was King. If

2276
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,240
Speaker 1: they he took a totally different verses, Ah, no, no, no, forget,

2277
02:07:31,480 --> 02:07:34,320
Speaker 1: let me do it again. And he went through like

2278
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 1: nine drafts of like one free totally different than the others,

2279
02:07:42,080 --> 02:07:45,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, the whole record's going to be

2280
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:51,760
Speaker 1: made that way. They're like, yeah, man, freestyle record. And no, nah,

2281
02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:53,080
Speaker 1: it was just one of those things that like it

2282
02:07:53,200 --> 02:07:56,760
Speaker 1: works good live and even still live sometimes against novelty.

2283
02:07:57,040 --> 02:07:59,920
Speaker 1: That's what I was getting to like. It's something you know,

2284
02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:01,600
Speaker 1: you can only pull the rabbit out of hat so

2285
02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:02,200
Speaker 1: many times.

2286
02:08:02,240 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 6: You know, I meantyle union.

2287
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to Friz. I mean, that was what

2288
02:08:06,640 --> 02:08:08,400
Speaker 1: I did. But after a while, Yeah, it kind of

2289
02:08:08,400 --> 02:08:10,200
Speaker 1: It's like a parlor trick. Otherwise, like, look, write a

2290
02:08:10,240 --> 02:08:11,040
Speaker 1: fucking song, dude.

2291
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:15,560
Speaker 7: So we need to talk about the best part of

2292
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:22,040
Speaker 7: that battle, which is the character, the impromptu character we

2293
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:26,400
Speaker 7: created with Fante's blessing named mom Ali. Yes, talk about

2294
02:08:26,440 --> 02:08:29,840
Speaker 7: it because we really, we really wanted to. I mean,

2295
02:08:30,200 --> 02:08:35,040
Speaker 7: it's an afrocentric period and you know, not to make

2296
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:37,360
Speaker 7: light of it, but there was always that dude who

2297
02:08:37,520 --> 02:08:39,840
Speaker 7: came to a battle to teach, to educate, you know.

2298
02:08:40,680 --> 02:08:44,160
Speaker 1: So, uh, I knew you were going to make I

2299
02:08:45,960 --> 02:08:48,640
Speaker 1: knew you were going to make it. See that damn

2300
02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:57,720
Speaker 1: verse shout out to Caitlin. Yeah. So this was one

2301
02:08:57,760 --> 02:08:59,240
Speaker 1: of the one of the times. I remember we was

2302
02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:01,720
Speaker 1: up I was up there, and so we had to

2303
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:04,920
Speaker 1: do this battle. So there's a battle in season in

2304
02:09:06,120 --> 02:09:09,800
Speaker 1: episode one of the pilot where Arm is battling this

2305
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:12,960
Speaker 1: guy six hours and so this is essentially the battle

2306
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:15,840
Speaker 1: where Arm wins the battle. And this is where DV

2307
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:19,600
Speaker 1: the producer sees the battle and realizes, Yo, Arm is

2308
02:09:19,640 --> 02:09:21,560
Speaker 1: the dude. I gotta fuck with this is the guy.

2309
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:24,560
Speaker 1: And so I had to write that battle between Torrey

2310
02:09:24,760 --> 02:09:28,880
Speaker 1: and Antoine, and so that came out. So before that,

2311
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:32,640
Speaker 1: there's all these other battles that take place before their battle,

2312
02:09:32,640 --> 02:09:35,040
Speaker 1: which is like the main event. So I come up

2313
02:09:35,120 --> 02:09:37,400
Speaker 1: there and I'm in New York and Dan hits me.

2314
02:09:37,520 --> 02:09:41,080
Speaker 1: He's like, yo, man, you know these other people we

2315
02:09:41,200 --> 02:09:43,480
Speaker 1: got doing battles, it ain't really working.

2316
02:09:43,880 --> 02:09:46,560
Speaker 2: Would you be willing to step in? And I'm just

2317
02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:48,640
Speaker 2: like yeah, I mean I can write some shit for whatever.

2318
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:49,960
Speaker 2: I'll write somebody some shit.

2319
02:09:49,960 --> 02:09:51,880
Speaker 1: It's cool. He's like no, no, no, no, no, I

2320
02:09:51,960 --> 02:09:53,600
Speaker 1: need you to write it. Yeah, but I need you

2321
02:09:53,720 --> 02:09:55,720
Speaker 1: to step in. And I'm like, fuck you me step in.

2322
02:09:55,880 --> 02:09:58,520
Speaker 1: He's like like step in, like be on camera, Like

2323
02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:02,400
Speaker 1: oh shit, I said okay. So he's like, well, I

2324
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:04,320
Speaker 1: got an idea for this character. His name is he

2325
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:07,080
Speaker 1: Mama Lee. I was like, say no more. I just

2326
02:10:07,240 --> 02:10:11,360
Speaker 1: knew what that meant, sort of like doctor York meets

2327
02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, my man, doctor York, Doctor York meets whatever

2328
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:20,320
Speaker 1: you add with that.

2329
02:10:20,680 --> 02:10:23,000
Speaker 6: I told he did it so well. I saw the

2330
02:10:23,080 --> 02:10:25,120
Speaker 6: pilot the pilot episode, and I was like, I think

2331
02:10:25,160 --> 02:10:27,560
Speaker 6: I thought you were ode or something because I really

2332
02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:28,040
Speaker 6: did not know.

2333
02:10:28,120 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 1: That was you. That was me and the cooofie in

2334
02:10:30,720 --> 02:10:32,520
Speaker 1: coof the in the Shades.

2335
02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:34,960
Speaker 7: So the good news is that that mam Alee comes back,

2336
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:39,920
Speaker 7: go back in the season. I really really wanted a

2337
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:43,880
Speaker 7: whole subplot around in Mama Lee. I didn't get it,

2338
02:10:44,200 --> 02:10:47,480
Speaker 7: but I'm still angling for it. If there's a season two.

2339
02:10:47,600 --> 02:10:49,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, that means you can't share it because you'll want

2340
02:10:49,680 --> 02:10:50,320
Speaker 6: to that's right.

2341
02:10:50,600 --> 02:10:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah we uh we shot that, and yeah, I hope

2342
02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:54,360
Speaker 1: well I spin off.

2343
02:10:55,640 --> 02:10:55,760
Speaker 6: Yo.

2344
02:10:55,840 --> 02:10:57,520
Speaker 1: I just saw him like I just want mam he

2345
02:10:57,560 --> 02:10:59,600
Speaker 1: gotta have a white woman, because that's what all like

2346
02:10:59,680 --> 02:11:02,960
Speaker 1: the whole dude, you gotta I was really you. I

2347
02:11:02,960 --> 02:11:04,960
Speaker 1: thought it was due. Now you gotta have a white woman.

2348
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:07,240
Speaker 1: You gotta be authentic hotep, come on, like, there's no

2349
02:11:07,360 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 1: one that wants to fight for black people more than

2350
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:11,680
Speaker 1: the nigga with a white woman. So like it got,

2351
02:11:11,800 --> 02:11:15,280
Speaker 1: it's gotta work. So yeah, man, we shot that and

2352
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:18,000
Speaker 1: it was funny, like that was like my culture shock.

2353
02:11:18,120 --> 02:11:21,400
Speaker 1: So the scene was supposed to be imam Ali is

2354
02:11:21,480 --> 02:11:24,840
Speaker 1: the guy. He's like the old guy that is, you know,

2355
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:28,240
Speaker 1: he's out of touch and he can rap, but he's

2356
02:11:28,280 --> 02:11:32,000
Speaker 1: trying to He would be doing push ups. I mean,

2357
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:35,440
Speaker 1: he's doing push ups with the perfect form, but he's

2358
02:11:35,480 --> 02:11:39,200
Speaker 1: trying to educate and shit. So in the scene when shot,

2359
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:42,320
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be that a Mama a Lee

2360
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:44,960
Speaker 1: lost the battle and he's like the laughing stock. But

2361
02:11:45,120 --> 02:11:47,600
Speaker 1: when we shot the scene and we had real extras

2362
02:11:47,640 --> 02:11:50,240
Speaker 1: and we told him like real twenty twenty one years

2363
02:11:50,240 --> 02:11:53,480
Speaker 1: old of today, we told him like, look react if

2364
02:11:53,560 --> 02:11:55,760
Speaker 1: some shit is whack, say it's whack. If y'all here

2365
02:11:55,760 --> 02:11:58,760
Speaker 1: a hot line like this is live. And so when

2366
02:11:58,840 --> 02:12:01,880
Speaker 1: I did Diverse, they actually were cheering for me and

2367
02:12:01,960 --> 02:12:03,720
Speaker 1: shit like they liked it, you know what I mean.

2368
02:12:03,880 --> 02:12:07,240
Speaker 7: Well, the thing was the guy who was facing he

2369
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:09,360
Speaker 7: was a real MC, but he he was very nervous

2370
02:12:09,360 --> 02:12:11,280
Speaker 7: because his first time on TV, so he kept forgetting

2371
02:12:11,320 --> 02:12:15,200
Speaker 7: his lines. So now Fante's oh, you know, improvising in

2372
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:17,360
Speaker 7: characters like well, come to the youth center. We have

2373
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:18,240
Speaker 7: memory pills.

2374
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:25,240
Speaker 1: We got genkkobal Bo. It was just I was just

2375
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:27,280
Speaker 1: saying all kind of shit and so, and the thing

2376
02:12:27,480 --> 02:12:28,120
Speaker 1: was my verse.

2377
02:12:28,200 --> 02:12:31,520
Speaker 2: I had to write it the night before, and that's

2378
02:12:31,560 --> 02:12:34,160
Speaker 2: something you know, it's extremely hard to do, like to

2379
02:12:34,200 --> 02:12:37,280
Speaker 2: write something and then have to memorize it. So I'm

2380
02:12:37,280 --> 02:12:39,960
Speaker 2: an extra end the scene, and in between takes, I'm

2381
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:42,480
Speaker 2: going out and listening to my phone, like playing the

2382
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:43,600
Speaker 2: verse over and over and over again.

2383
02:12:43,640 --> 02:12:45,640
Speaker 1: And so finally we shoot it, and you know, the

2384
02:12:46,080 --> 02:12:48,440
Speaker 1: kids reacted to my shit. They was like yo, this

2385
02:12:48,600 --> 02:12:50,920
Speaker 1: they was laughing and like they was hooting hollar. And

2386
02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:53,000
Speaker 1: so afterwards, me and Dan was talking. I was like, man,

2387
02:12:53,040 --> 02:12:54,840
Speaker 1: what the fuck was that? That wasn't supposed to happen,

2388
02:12:55,280 --> 02:12:57,200
Speaker 1: and he was like, well, you know what, dude, that

2389
02:12:57,720 --> 02:13:01,680
Speaker 1: audience like that that you like now, they didn't get

2390
02:13:01,880 --> 02:13:04,200
Speaker 1: x claned, they didn't get poor righteous teachers, they didn't

2391
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:07,840
Speaker 1: get you know, just that super pro black time and

2392
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:10,320
Speaker 1: rap where we just thought we was like gonna be

2393
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:13,360
Speaker 1: black ay black. They didn't get it. So to them

2394
02:13:13,440 --> 02:13:15,560
Speaker 1: it was cool to see. So to them it wasn't

2395
02:13:15,640 --> 02:13:18,680
Speaker 1: a joke because they didn't even get the reference to

2396
02:13:18,720 --> 02:13:20,080
Speaker 1: stuff that we were represent at that time.

2397
02:13:20,120 --> 02:13:21,520
Speaker 6: So it's just like in the pilot.

2398
02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:23,360
Speaker 1: This is in the pilot. This is the pilot.

2399
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:26,560
Speaker 7: How my wish is that people can hear the whole verse.

2400
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:32,560
Speaker 7: Unbelievable and listen. Jay Smooth was an extra in one

2401
02:13:32,640 --> 02:13:34,600
Speaker 7: of our scenes. I remember you your demo came in

2402
02:13:34,680 --> 02:13:37,240
Speaker 7: when Jay Smooth was and Jay Smooth and I had

2403
02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:38,680
Speaker 7: such fun listening to that demo.

2404
02:13:40,360 --> 02:13:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I cut the demo that because you because again

2405
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:43,680
Speaker 1: you hit me that night.

2406
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:46,040
Speaker 2: It's like eleven twelve o'clock and I was I just

2407
02:13:46,160 --> 02:13:49,800
Speaker 2: left blue note with glassper and it's like twelve o'clock.

2408
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm getting back in the joint and he's like, so

2409
02:13:52,240 --> 02:13:54,000
Speaker 2: I need you to do this scene. And by the way,

2410
02:13:54,040 --> 02:13:56,880
Speaker 2: we're taping tomorrow, you know, like afternoon, so be read.

2411
02:13:56,920 --> 02:13:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right. So I literally cut the demo

2412
02:13:59,760 --> 02:14:03,200
Speaker 2: in hotel room with my little bull speaker, my iPad

2413
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:06,320
Speaker 2: and my iPhone and I just wrapped into that and

2414
02:14:06,480 --> 02:14:07,240
Speaker 2: that was how we did it.

2415
02:14:08,000 --> 02:14:10,160
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that was it. So that was a

2416
02:14:10,240 --> 02:14:13,280
Speaker 1: character I had to write for. It was what else

2417
02:14:13,320 --> 02:14:17,400
Speaker 1: your girl im imani imam a lee. Uh, there is

2418
02:14:17,640 --> 02:14:19,320
Speaker 1: a but I'll give you away too much. There is

2419
02:14:19,400 --> 02:14:25,120
Speaker 1: a audition audition scene scene coming up. Uh, it's like

2420
02:14:25,200 --> 02:14:27,800
Speaker 1: three or four acts I had to write for them. Uh,

2421
02:14:28,600 --> 02:14:31,120
Speaker 1: you did a great job on that one, thank you man.

2422
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:33,720
Speaker 7: I mean, well, here's the thing is, it's not just

2423
02:14:34,120 --> 02:14:38,000
Speaker 7: lyrics because again this gets back to my horrible an

2424
02:14:38,080 --> 02:14:41,960
Speaker 7: our career. You know, we had to decide because there's

2425
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:44,160
Speaker 7: the banger at the end of the season, right, and

2426
02:14:44,600 --> 02:14:47,000
Speaker 7: and what is the beat that we're going to use.

2427
02:14:47,160 --> 02:14:51,320
Speaker 7: But there's a problem. And the problem is there's a

2428
02:14:51,480 --> 02:14:54,680
Speaker 7: there's a plot line that involves a using a particular

2429
02:14:55,520 --> 02:15:00,760
Speaker 7: Bob James sample and or rather use a sample a

2430
02:15:00,920 --> 02:15:04,520
Speaker 7: record by Bob James, and which record was it going

2431
02:15:04,600 --> 02:15:06,640
Speaker 7: to be? And I felt really boxed in. I felt like,

2432
02:15:06,720 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 7: oh my god, you know, none of these things is

2433
02:15:09,280 --> 02:15:12,240
Speaker 7: going to make something that hasn't already been done. And

2434
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:15,200
Speaker 7: I'm panicking because.

2435
02:15:14,920 --> 02:15:15,880
Speaker 1: We couldn't use knowledge.

2436
02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:17,840
Speaker 2: I was like, we can't use knowledge and it was

2437
02:15:17,880 --> 02:15:20,920
Speaker 2: so great, Well it's nine, it was nineteen ninety. But

2438
02:15:21,040 --> 02:15:24,840
Speaker 2: the thing was with Preing, like, I mean, just fucking Preing.

2439
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:26,600
Speaker 2: So we're talking samples and he's.

2440
02:15:26,480 --> 02:15:29,360
Speaker 1: Like, oh yeah, I'm about chop that back in ninety two,

2441
02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:31,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like, ah shit, you

2442
02:15:31,480 --> 02:15:32,840
Speaker 1: did do that, you know what I mean? So a

2443
02:15:32,920 --> 02:15:33,600
Speaker 1: lot of that stuff.

2444
02:15:33,760 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 7: So I'm not going to mention the Bob James song,

2445
02:15:37,480 --> 02:15:40,240
Speaker 7: but you suggest it, and I think I.

2446
02:15:40,280 --> 02:15:44,160
Speaker 1: Was just thinking, I tell you after it's over, but nah,

2447
02:15:44,200 --> 02:15:46,240
Speaker 1: it's not that, And I thought I was.

2448
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:48,760
Speaker 7: Like, oh, that is never going to work. It's never

2449
02:15:48,800 --> 02:15:50,760
Speaker 7: gonna work. And I'm busy, like, Okay, you know what,

2450
02:15:50,880 --> 02:15:52,320
Speaker 7: maybe it doesn't have to do Bob James. Maybe we

2451
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:54,640
Speaker 7: do a cooler gang song. Here's ten cooler gang songs

2452
02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:59,080
Speaker 7: you can sample. I'm you know, panicking and Funk is back,

2453
02:15:59,120 --> 02:15:59,960
Speaker 7: I mean co Cools back.

2454
02:16:00,040 --> 02:16:01,400
Speaker 1: We had that that was like it were.

2455
02:16:01,400 --> 02:16:03,800
Speaker 7: Posular, like four different artists that we could use to

2456
02:16:03,880 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 7: make this plot line work. And Cream takes Fante's suggestion

2457
02:16:10,080 --> 02:16:14,360
Speaker 7: and makes this. It's just unbelievable. The coolest no no,

2458
02:16:14,440 --> 02:16:18,280
Speaker 7: no no Bob James record that that you have heard

2459
02:16:18,360 --> 02:16:22,040
Speaker 7: in another classic Golden era hip hop hit that I

2460
02:16:22,280 --> 02:16:24,560
Speaker 7: never thought could have been flipped in the way it

2461
02:16:24,720 --> 02:16:25,160
Speaker 7: was flipped.

2462
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:28,560
Speaker 1: And if you know, I'm I guess it right, I

2463
02:16:28,720 --> 02:16:31,160
Speaker 1: want you to guess it. You know, I'll confirm it

2464
02:16:32,720 --> 02:16:35,400
Speaker 1: all right? Yeah, I mean ye say you probably guess

2465
02:16:35,440 --> 02:16:41,199
Speaker 1: it was No, Steve, I don't think it is Holy Ship.

2466
02:16:41,480 --> 02:16:45,720
Speaker 1: He's a tappan Zee Tap Records. Ye, yes, he's a

2467
02:16:45,800 --> 02:16:50,000
Speaker 1: tappan Ze. Matt. You're saying that the name of No,

2468
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:56,240
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that I didn't give it away the

2469
02:16:56,680 --> 02:17:01,480
Speaker 1: west Tester lady. Nah, No, ain't that Wait a minute,

2470
02:17:01,520 --> 02:17:03,080
Speaker 1: hang on, he I mean take me to the Marty

2471
02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:06,280
Speaker 1: Ground was the that's that's cat yet? Well here's the

2472
02:17:06,320 --> 02:17:12,640
Speaker 1: thing though, See, flipping was really not a thing in

2473
02:17:12,800 --> 02:17:17,800
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. Yeah, so all right, just for I remember.

2474
02:17:18,959 --> 02:17:23,879
Speaker 7: Age act that used this particular Bob James record didn't

2475
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:28,280
Speaker 7: exist yet, so it had not been used. So it

2476
02:17:28,360 --> 02:17:30,640
Speaker 7: wasn't really a flip. It's a flip to us, Yeah,

2477
02:17:30,760 --> 02:17:35,760
Speaker 7: in twenty seventeen. But uh, the producer DV thought it

2478
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:37,320
Speaker 7: up all himself in nineteen ninety.

2479
02:17:38,680 --> 02:17:40,039
Speaker 1: It's not Westchester lady.

2480
02:17:41,120 --> 02:17:41,320
Speaker 7: Nah.

2481
02:17:42,040 --> 02:17:43,560
Speaker 1: Well it's not the on example.

2482
02:17:44,200 --> 02:17:47,480
Speaker 6: Nah Nah, that one is flip like a technical thing.

2483
02:17:47,840 --> 02:17:49,160
Speaker 1: Well, just to flip.

2484
02:17:49,680 --> 02:17:51,680
Speaker 7: Take my sample that's already been used in using it.

2485
02:17:52,320 --> 02:17:54,879
Speaker 1: In other words, if you have a roof excube, once

2486
02:17:54,959 --> 02:17:59,160
Speaker 1: all the sides are completely done, that's nineteen ninety. Cats

2487
02:17:59,240 --> 02:18:02,720
Speaker 1: just started mixing it all up and you know, all

2488
02:18:02,760 --> 02:18:05,400
Speaker 1: the colors up and messing it up like by n.

2489
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:10,200
Speaker 7: It's like, you know, you know, player's anthem by Junior Mafia, Right,

2490
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:15,040
Speaker 7: So Prem and Jabru to sort of poke fun at it,

2491
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:17,320
Speaker 7: they take the same sample, which is a new birth sample,

2492
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:17,920
Speaker 7: and they flip it.

2493
02:18:20,120 --> 02:18:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah so yeah, so but nah, that was I mean,

2494
02:18:23,200 --> 02:18:25,320
Speaker 1: it's been an incredible like just to be able to,

2495
02:18:26,400 --> 02:18:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, do that shit like so I like it.

2496
02:18:29,000 --> 02:18:31,120
Speaker 1: It puts me in his own where I like to

2497
02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:33,800
Speaker 1: be like kind of behind the scenes and like live

2498
02:18:33,920 --> 02:18:38,040
Speaker 1: my life through different people. And you know, it's that's

2499
02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:40,199
Speaker 1: just fun to watch, Like with hearing other people interpret

2500
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:42,600
Speaker 1: your words. That shit is amazing to me. It's a

2501
02:18:42,640 --> 02:18:50,320
Speaker 1: lot of fun. The first episode of season one is aired.

2502
02:18:52,120 --> 02:18:54,280
Speaker 2: What can you tell us about where these characters are

2503
02:18:54,360 --> 02:18:56,520
Speaker 2: going without giving stuff away?

2504
02:18:58,560 --> 02:19:03,760
Speaker 7: Well, you know, they're on a collision course with destiny,

2505
02:19:07,360 --> 02:19:13,800
Speaker 7: I think, you know. I they're dealing with what we

2506
02:19:13,959 --> 02:19:17,279
Speaker 7: were dealing with in nineteen ninety. They're dealing with major

2507
02:19:17,360 --> 02:19:20,000
Speaker 7: labels coming in and sniffing money and sniffing around and

2508
02:19:20,160 --> 02:19:23,240
Speaker 7: offering a lot of personal opportunity to folks. Do you

2509
02:19:23,360 --> 02:19:25,720
Speaker 7: take that or do you not take that and what

2510
02:19:26,760 --> 02:19:31,320
Speaker 7: what do you you know, what are the risks taking

2511
02:19:31,360 --> 02:19:34,200
Speaker 7: that big, cushy, major label job and what do you

2512
02:19:34,320 --> 02:19:39,640
Speaker 7: sacrifice in the process? You know, what does DV do

2513
02:19:39,920 --> 02:19:41,800
Speaker 7: to you know? How much does he want to work

2514
02:19:41,840 --> 02:19:44,000
Speaker 7: with them? And how much danger is he willing to

2515
02:19:44,200 --> 02:19:49,920
Speaker 7: put himself in? You know, for David who works at

2516
02:19:50,040 --> 02:19:53,160
Speaker 7: the you know, the quote unquote urban radio station. You

2517
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 7: know how he wants hip hop to be on the

2518
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:58,120
Speaker 7: air so much, But is he is he willing to

2519
02:19:58,240 --> 02:20:02,520
Speaker 7: understand that, you know, it's business not just you know,

2520
02:20:02,640 --> 02:20:05,480
Speaker 7: to give people moral lessons on you know, the hip

2521
02:20:05,520 --> 02:20:08,440
Speaker 7: hop should be. You know that there he may have to,

2522
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:12,720
Speaker 7: you know, take a little advice from his father to

2523
02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:14,120
Speaker 7: do some of the things he wants to do.

2524
02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:20,120
Speaker 6: What Harris his character? I want to ask you about

2525
02:20:20,160 --> 02:20:22,280
Speaker 6: him because I feel like some of these characters are

2526
02:20:22,400 --> 02:20:24,640
Speaker 6: like an amalgamation of a few people. Some of them

2527
02:20:24,680 --> 02:20:26,160
Speaker 6: may be just one person that you knew, But what

2528
02:20:26,360 --> 02:20:30,279
Speaker 6: Harris's character a few people, one person.

2529
02:20:30,920 --> 02:20:34,280
Speaker 7: Few people, you know, I think they're definitely shades of

2530
02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:37,880
Speaker 7: Russell there would when he plays them, he channels a

2531
02:20:37,959 --> 02:20:41,680
Speaker 7: lot of Dame you know. Yeah, there's a manic energy

2532
02:20:41,720 --> 02:20:44,640
Speaker 7: there that even Russell. Can't you know, it's not it's

2533
02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:49,119
Speaker 7: more Dame or Puff than it is Russell. But he's

2534
02:20:49,160 --> 02:20:53,119
Speaker 7: also he's the great thing about watching this season, one

2535
02:20:53,120 --> 02:20:56,720
Speaker 7: of the best things anyway, was watching these characters make

2536
02:20:57,320 --> 02:21:00,800
Speaker 7: like Barry Foray is his own thing. Now. He's not Russell,

2537
02:21:00,879 --> 02:21:03,280
Speaker 7: he's not Dame. He's Barry for Ray and you can

2538
02:21:03,400 --> 02:21:05,680
Speaker 7: see him there in nineteen ninety and it makes sense

2539
02:21:05,800 --> 02:21:10,039
Speaker 7: and the character has some Integrity's.

2540
02:21:08,920 --> 02:21:11,280
Speaker 6: Love the way into it. For the lead character, the female,

2541
02:21:11,280 --> 02:21:15,400
Speaker 6: I'm start forget her name after the actress Chage.

2542
02:21:16,120 --> 02:21:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah she is.

2543
02:21:16,760 --> 02:21:19,520
Speaker 6: You are introducing the concept of the intern and really

2544
02:21:19,800 --> 02:21:21,680
Speaker 6: that because you know that time is over now. So

2545
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:23,920
Speaker 6: it's interested in telling the story of a music intern

2546
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:25,840
Speaker 6: and what they had to go to a female music

2547
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:29,560
Speaker 6: intern in that world. And I almost wonder with two

2548
02:21:29,600 --> 02:21:31,959
Speaker 6: males in the situation, who like, is there another female

2549
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:33,760
Speaker 6: to kind of come in and be like, this is

2550
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:36,160
Speaker 6: a whole different aspect that you don't made me know

2551
02:21:36,280 --> 02:21:37,080
Speaker 6: or did you just already?

2552
02:21:37,840 --> 02:21:42,800
Speaker 7: Like Nikki will have a few mentors to choose from, say,

2553
02:21:43,080 --> 02:21:46,240
Speaker 7: over the course of the season, and Mac, I mean

2554
02:21:47,120 --> 02:21:49,360
Speaker 7: yeah for me, didn't even talk about the DJ battle.

2555
02:21:50,000 --> 02:21:54,680
Speaker 7: Mac enrolled himself in Scratch Academy to learn how to

2556
02:21:54,840 --> 02:21:56,320
Speaker 7: DJ so he could participate.

2557
02:21:57,520 --> 02:22:09,760
Speaker 1: And wow, what's that? What's his name? Your boy? Ryan

2558
02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:14,400
Speaker 1: gosling Uh took up six months of piano lessons to

2559
02:22:14,480 --> 02:22:18,879
Speaker 1: play all the actual he's actually playing all that jazz

2560
02:22:18,920 --> 02:22:22,840
Speaker 1: stuff and the fingerings correct and the chords are correct. Wow,

2561
02:22:23,080 --> 02:22:24,080
Speaker 1: that's him actually playing.

2562
02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:26,560
Speaker 6: We'll talk about back in that way. And also his

2563
02:22:26,800 --> 02:22:28,920
Speaker 6: like history with music because he's like a different kind

2564
02:22:28,959 --> 02:22:31,080
Speaker 6: of actor in the sense of playing a role like this,

2565
02:22:31,320 --> 02:22:34,240
Speaker 6: his relationship with hip hop and his commitment, it's different.

2566
02:22:34,320 --> 02:22:36,240
Speaker 7: I feel like, yeah, well, he grew up in stat

2567
02:22:36,320 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 7: Ny and his father cut all the dudes from the

2568
02:22:38,560 --> 02:22:39,880
Speaker 7: Wu Tang clan's hair.

2569
02:22:40,120 --> 02:22:40,280
Speaker 1: You know.

2570
02:22:40,440 --> 02:22:43,080
Speaker 7: He he's known method man since he was a kid.

2571
02:22:43,320 --> 02:22:45,520
Speaker 7: Who plays his dad, right, who plays his dad?

2572
02:22:46,240 --> 02:22:51,760
Speaker 1: Fun fact, but actually read for that role somewhere, hopefully

2573
02:22:51,840 --> 02:22:58,560
Speaker 1: on a hard drive, fucking buried way somewhere audition audition

2574
02:22:58,720 --> 02:23:01,920
Speaker 1: for for his role, and I didn't think it would work.

2575
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:03,360
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna just do this shit anyway.

2576
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:05,680
Speaker 1: I don't think I maybe play his uncle, but I

2577
02:23:05,760 --> 02:23:06,440
Speaker 1: didn't play.

2578
02:23:06,360 --> 02:23:10,320
Speaker 7: That dream had to die. So in MoMA leve Yes.

2579
02:23:10,640 --> 02:23:14,160
Speaker 1: Yet there was also a character we had. It was

2580
02:23:14,240 --> 02:23:18,560
Speaker 1: a scene we cut the Fred Jamal, the record store guy,

2581
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:21,440
Speaker 1: and that was one of the things that like, really

2582
02:23:21,520 --> 02:23:24,120
Speaker 1: I like because we kind of get the show. You know,

2583
02:23:24,200 --> 02:23:26,080
Speaker 1: we're playing with history and you sometimes you get to

2584
02:23:26,120 --> 02:23:29,320
Speaker 1: show how wrong people got it. And so there was

2585
02:23:29,400 --> 02:23:33,240
Speaker 1: one scene where the guy David, he goes to the

2586
02:23:33,400 --> 02:23:36,520
Speaker 1: record store and he asked the guy in the record store, hey,

2587
02:23:37,200 --> 02:23:39,680
Speaker 1: give me I want to take some pictures of the

2588
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:41,800
Speaker 1: customers who are in here buying hip hop, you know

2589
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:42,119
Speaker 1: what I mean.

2590
02:23:42,480 --> 02:23:44,960
Speaker 2: And so he then takes those pictures and goes to

2591
02:23:45,360 --> 02:23:48,240
Speaker 2: his you know, goes to his boss and it's like, yo,

2592
02:23:48,360 --> 02:23:50,480
Speaker 2: these people are like hip hop. But the thing is,

2593
02:23:50,560 --> 02:23:54,680
Speaker 2: the guy at the store is saying, Hey, I don't

2594
02:23:54,720 --> 02:23:56,920
Speaker 2: want them to play hip hop on the radio because

2595
02:23:56,920 --> 02:23:59,520
Speaker 2: if they played on the radio, they're not gonna buy it.

2596
02:24:00,879 --> 02:24:04,840
Speaker 2: Not yeah, not even getting that, Like, no, motherfucker, that

2597
02:24:05,240 --> 02:24:07,640
Speaker 2: is what will bring people to me. But he was just,

2598
02:24:07,800 --> 02:24:09,640
Speaker 2: you know, he got it so fucking wrong, you know

2599
02:24:09,640 --> 02:24:11,600
Speaker 2: what I mean. And there's little things that you'll see

2600
02:24:11,640 --> 02:24:15,000
Speaker 2: in the season where you know, people will make statements

2601
02:24:15,040 --> 02:24:17,560
Speaker 2: and it's just like oh my god, Yeah, you know, you.

2602
02:24:17,560 --> 02:24:22,360
Speaker 1: Don't once told us that Pete crap, are you serious?

2603
02:24:22,440 --> 02:24:25,720
Speaker 1: When he was doing his long time first he was like, yo, man,

2604
02:24:25,760 --> 02:24:28,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to come out with a record because like,

2605
02:24:28,560 --> 02:24:33,119
Speaker 1: once you make a record, you're whack. I don't it's

2606
02:24:33,160 --> 02:24:36,280
Speaker 1: like seeing you want to just do mixtapes all your life.

2607
02:24:36,920 --> 02:24:40,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a mystery to it, like people are

2608
02:24:40,080 --> 02:24:43,320
Speaker 1: still waiting for me. But like once the now comes out, wow,

2609
02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:47,400
Speaker 1: then you know wow.

2610
02:24:48,080 --> 02:24:49,080
Speaker 6: I don't think he never did.

2611
02:24:49,040 --> 02:24:56,280
Speaker 1: He never he could be an aquarium. I'm sorry, but yeah,

2612
02:24:56,600 --> 02:24:57,360
Speaker 1: but but yeah, we.

2613
02:24:57,400 --> 02:25:00,520
Speaker 2: Have little moments like that that are really uh you know,

2614
02:25:00,680 --> 02:25:03,320
Speaker 2: you're watching it with the knowledge of what happens to

2615
02:25:03,440 --> 02:25:07,160
Speaker 2: these people or people will held those thoughts, and that's

2616
02:25:07,200 --> 02:25:09,480
Speaker 2: been fun for me, like kind of seeing how that

2617
02:25:09,560 --> 02:25:14,080
Speaker 2: plays out, just tuning in before you.

2618
02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:22,320
Speaker 1: I I'm looking, Okay, is it.

2619
02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:23,880
Speaker 6: This?

2620
02:25:26,360 --> 02:25:26,400
Speaker 4: No?

2621
02:25:26,560 --> 02:25:33,280
Speaker 1: Damn wow? No, I guess it's right up under your

2622
02:25:33,320 --> 02:25:37,040
Speaker 1: nose like you. I gotta watch it again on television. No, no, no,

2623
02:25:37,200 --> 02:25:39,920
Speaker 1: you ain't gotta know this is. This doesn't happen till later,

2624
02:25:40,640 --> 02:25:42,600
Speaker 1: So it ain't. It ain't air yet. It hasn't air yet.

2625
02:25:42,640 --> 02:25:47,560
Speaker 1: It's the final episode. Yeah, it's coming so but you

2626
02:25:47,720 --> 02:25:51,560
Speaker 1: closed though, saying when I hear this joint, I'm gonna

2627
02:25:52,000 --> 02:25:56,720
Speaker 1: want to kick my television off the plasmas.

2628
02:25:56,520 --> 02:26:02,840
Speaker 2: Like yes, because that's something that's so obvious and it's

2629
02:26:02,879 --> 02:26:05,840
Speaker 2: something that has been and it's not Artilus.

2630
02:26:06,400 --> 02:26:08,680
Speaker 1: No, it's not that. That was one of the ones

2631
02:26:08,680 --> 02:26:12,840
Speaker 1: that we were looking at. But he Prema already used part. No,

2632
02:26:13,000 --> 02:26:16,240
Speaker 1: it's not all less because PREMI used it. My mind spray.

2633
02:26:16,280 --> 02:26:17,560
Speaker 7: Already did that for Jay Rue.

2634
02:26:17,800 --> 02:26:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah did my spray and the and

2635
02:26:21,040 --> 02:26:24,840
Speaker 1: the group home? Yeah yeah, that sounds like, yeah I

2636
02:26:24,959 --> 02:26:26,120
Speaker 1: did that one. You know what I'm saying. We did

2637
02:26:26,160 --> 02:26:29,720
Speaker 1: that one and the night ju you know what I'm saying.

2638
02:26:30,440 --> 02:26:32,920
Speaker 1: And then my mind spray. You know what I'm saying,

2639
02:26:33,040 --> 02:26:37,640
Speaker 1: we did that one. I was like, okay, Primo, so yeah,

2640
02:26:37,800 --> 02:26:39,520
Speaker 1: but no, it ain't that one. It ain't that But

2641
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean you it's right up on your nose like

2642
02:26:41,560 --> 02:26:45,160
Speaker 1: you he be like, what the fuck? The only last

2643
02:26:45,200 --> 02:26:47,920
Speaker 1: one that he used was did he use it before? No,

2644
02:26:48,840 --> 02:26:49,800
Speaker 1: Preme never used it before.

2645
02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:53,039
Speaker 7: He never used it, which is why it sounds fresh.

2646
02:26:54,600 --> 02:27:00,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, did red Man use it before? I know

2647
02:27:00,280 --> 02:27:00,760
Speaker 1: what you think?

2648
02:27:06,040 --> 02:27:06,080
Speaker 6: Not?

2649
02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:10,000
Speaker 1: No, one just tuning in is ques Low Supreme. We

2650
02:27:10,040 --> 02:27:17,080
Speaker 1: got him playing bitch. You guess I'm right, God, I

2651
02:27:17,160 --> 02:27:20,600
Speaker 1: got a question? Can I ask a questions? Quose your

2652
02:27:20,720 --> 02:27:21,880
Speaker 1: show bill?

2653
02:27:22,120 --> 02:27:24,040
Speaker 8: First of all, Dan is also a teacher, and we

2654
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:25,760
Speaker 8: didn't we haven't got to that part. Yeah, we teach

2655
02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:27,720
Speaker 8: at the same school, I know, which is amazing.

2656
02:27:27,760 --> 02:27:28,560
Speaker 1: I forgot fantastic.

2657
02:27:28,600 --> 02:27:30,080
Speaker 8: But you walked in you said, you said Martin Man

2658
02:27:30,520 --> 02:27:32,400
Speaker 8: was in my class, and I feel like that was

2659
02:27:32,440 --> 02:27:34,200
Speaker 8: a big thing that we then went into this whole

2660
02:27:34,240 --> 02:27:39,160
Speaker 8: crazy batshit show and the real because he was on

2661
02:27:39,280 --> 02:27:41,440
Speaker 8: this show and he was it was amazing. And I'm

2662
02:27:41,440 --> 02:27:43,280
Speaker 8: sure you have a story too well.

2663
02:27:43,360 --> 02:27:45,160
Speaker 7: I mean, he's just first of all, to even come

2664
02:27:45,360 --> 02:27:48,360
Speaker 7: to a small class and to and to talk about

2665
02:27:48,440 --> 02:27:52,280
Speaker 7: his career. You know, we were really just talking. I'm

2666
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:54,680
Speaker 7: teaching a class on the Golden Age of hip hop

2667
02:27:54,760 --> 02:27:57,199
Speaker 7: and we're sort of pinning it between the years eighty

2668
02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:00,680
Speaker 7: seven and ninety three for a few reasons. And you know,

2669
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:02,960
Speaker 7: he came to talk about the bridge, he came to

2670
02:28:03,040 --> 02:28:08,960
Speaker 7: talk about that jump to sample drums, right that, uh,

2671
02:28:09,280 --> 02:28:12,000
Speaker 7: And I never knew And this is a whole sort

2672
02:28:12,040 --> 02:28:14,120
Speaker 7: of nerd thing, but I never knew. I always thought

2673
02:28:14,160 --> 02:28:16,120
Speaker 7: that the bridge was made on an SB twelve hundred.

2674
02:28:16,560 --> 02:28:21,400
Speaker 1: No, he talked about dude. When he told us that

2675
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:24,720
Speaker 1: we just that, and when he told us that the shakers,

2676
02:28:24,879 --> 02:28:27,640
Speaker 1: oh my god, the shakers that make the music is him,

2677
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:33,760
Speaker 1: that's him doing. He's literally making the music. Was the

2678
02:28:33,800 --> 02:28:36,039
Speaker 1: whole four hours was like, No, you didn't, Yes, it did.

2679
02:28:36,240 --> 02:28:40,200
Speaker 1: That was pretty much. I mean, next to Whitney and

2680
02:28:40,440 --> 02:28:44,360
Speaker 1: TEJ Swin. Oh my god. So apparently there was a

2681
02:28:44,480 --> 02:28:47,119
Speaker 1: story that was close to being a Whitney and TJ.

2682
02:28:47,280 --> 02:28:54,800
Speaker 1: Swan duett there's no place right, Yeah, Whitney.

2683
02:28:54,640 --> 02:28:57,119
Speaker 7: Exactly make the music with your mouth, Bobby.

2684
02:28:58,400 --> 02:29:03,400
Speaker 1: Whitney and Thomas Jerome Swan together. Yeah, Bro, Marty had

2685
02:29:03,400 --> 02:29:05,960
Speaker 1: crazy stories. So like did the kids like, so when

2686
02:29:06,320 --> 02:29:08,920
Speaker 1: you have someone like Marty come in, are they aware

2687
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:12,160
Speaker 1: of who they're looking at? And like, you know what

2688
02:29:12,320 --> 02:29:12,720
Speaker 1: that means?

2689
02:29:12,840 --> 02:29:17,959
Speaker 7: Surprisingly? This class really was so, you know, because they're young,

2690
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:20,040
Speaker 7: and I'm not saying surprising because they're really good students,

2691
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:23,840
Speaker 7: but I mean they were born after Tupac died, you know,

2692
02:29:24,120 --> 02:29:25,840
Speaker 7: so what do they know what?

2693
02:29:26,400 --> 02:29:35,200
Speaker 1: And ap right? Right? Wow?

2694
02:29:36,600 --> 02:29:38,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, but I love I love teaching.

2695
02:29:39,240 --> 02:29:42,120
Speaker 1: One of your students was Maggie Rogers. That's right. That

2696
02:29:42,400 --> 02:29:47,960
Speaker 1: was Oh she's dope. I can't claim her either. No, No,

2697
02:29:48,160 --> 02:29:50,640
Speaker 1: she's my student too, but she's more. Yeah.

2698
02:29:50,720 --> 02:29:53,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, she was my first student, my very first class

2699
02:29:53,640 --> 02:29:54,280
Speaker 7: that I ever taught.

2700
02:29:54,720 --> 02:29:59,480
Speaker 1: She Maggie Rogers is she's a young singer songwriter. Pharrell

2701
02:29:59,560 --> 02:30:02,480
Speaker 1: did a video, Yo, this has been your Bob power

2702
02:30:02,879 --> 02:30:05,880
Speaker 1: where they just you know, they played records. You know,

2703
02:30:06,000 --> 02:30:08,520
Speaker 1: you could play your records for phar real, you know

2704
02:30:08,520 --> 02:30:10,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. He came in and and kind of

2705
02:30:10,440 --> 02:30:13,720
Speaker 1: gave him notes, and so Maggie played her joint and

2706
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:15,680
Speaker 1: that was the joint where he was just like, yo,

2707
02:30:15,840 --> 02:30:17,720
Speaker 1: I have no notes for this. This ship is crazy,

2708
02:30:18,200 --> 02:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and she ended up getting the deal. She's yea, I

2709
02:30:22,760 --> 02:30:27,000
Speaker 1: will back up my student in a couple of weeks

2710
02:30:27,080 --> 02:30:27,840
Speaker 1: on the Tonight show.

2711
02:30:31,360 --> 02:30:33,040
Speaker 7: Yeah so great.

2712
02:30:33,480 --> 02:30:36,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's she's dope. She's really she has her

2713
02:30:36,360 --> 02:30:39,360
Speaker 1: it's completely singular. She sounds like nothing else. How many

2714
02:30:39,480 --> 02:30:42,320
Speaker 1: semesters do you do at the school?

2715
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:43,720
Speaker 7: Fall and spring?

2716
02:30:44,520 --> 02:30:48,640
Speaker 1: You do too? Yeah, I can only do. This is

2717
02:30:48,720 --> 02:30:51,320
Speaker 1: the first year that I opted not to do it.

2718
02:30:51,440 --> 02:30:54,640
Speaker 1: I wanted you to teach the Dela Della class. Well, no, no, no,

2719
02:30:54,879 --> 02:30:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna still come in good. But you know what

2720
02:30:57,400 --> 02:31:03,960
Speaker 1: when they first when when when they approached me about

2721
02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:07,080
Speaker 1: doing it, the idea of doing it because they wanted it,

2722
02:31:07,240 --> 02:31:13,240
Speaker 1: like last year's or whatever. I felt weird about it

2723
02:31:13,320 --> 02:31:20,640
Speaker 1: because there were there was no no curriculum and no

2724
02:31:21,200 --> 02:31:28,119
Speaker 1: periodicals or or or books that I could use to teach.

2725
02:31:28,959 --> 02:31:32,160
Speaker 1: And I don't even know if I'm eloquent enough to

2726
02:31:32,280 --> 02:31:38,520
Speaker 1: really convey how special he was as a human being

2727
02:31:39,800 --> 02:31:43,720
Speaker 1: and as a musician, especially in the age of now,

2728
02:31:43,959 --> 02:31:46,520
Speaker 1: which you can easily with the click of a button

2729
02:31:47,600 --> 02:31:50,680
Speaker 1: get results, where all your stuff is quantized and if

2730
02:31:50,720 --> 02:31:52,840
Speaker 1: you want to, you know, chop up your stuff in

2731
02:31:52,879 --> 02:31:56,760
Speaker 1: a certain way. And you know, I'm trying to explain

2732
02:31:56,800 --> 02:31:59,440
Speaker 1: to these people like he was making these miracles with

2733
02:31:59,560 --> 02:32:04,960
Speaker 1: his bare hands and brain, like before this technology existed,

2734
02:32:05,440 --> 02:32:11,240
Speaker 1: like the only way to describe it. H Hendrix's second album,

2735
02:32:11,280 --> 02:32:14,560
Speaker 1: Access Bold as Love. You know, we take for advantage,

2736
02:32:14,640 --> 02:32:17,640
Speaker 1: we take it for granted. No well, no, no, no,

2737
02:32:17,920 --> 02:32:21,040
Speaker 1: just the whole album in general. Like Hendricks Damn Near

2738
02:32:21,440 --> 02:32:26,000
Speaker 1: invented the Hendricks and Eddi Kramer invented the technology that

2739
02:32:26,080 --> 02:32:28,880
Speaker 1: we take for granted now, the idea of phasing and

2740
02:32:29,240 --> 02:32:32,520
Speaker 1: and certain echo effects and chambers udo as instrument. Yeah,

2741
02:32:32,879 --> 02:32:39,040
Speaker 1: and you know, so, how what is your goal in

2742
02:32:39,240 --> 02:32:45,080
Speaker 1: teaching about Dila that will make it as mind blowing

2743
02:32:45,160 --> 02:32:48,080
Speaker 1: for them as it was for me to see that

2744
02:32:48,320 --> 02:32:51,160
Speaker 1: stuff firsthand as he's doing. Yeah, you have a theory

2745
02:32:51,480 --> 02:32:53,080
Speaker 1: like what you've told to me.

2746
02:32:53,160 --> 02:32:57,240
Speaker 7: For like the three inventors I called the three Kings

2747
02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:01,040
Speaker 7: of American rhythm. There's Louis Armstrong who basically established swing,

2748
02:33:01,600 --> 02:33:05,320
Speaker 7: you know, as sort of the American approach to meter

2749
02:33:05,560 --> 02:33:09,120
Speaker 7: in rhythm. James Brown who turned every instrument into a

2750
02:33:09,200 --> 02:33:14,080
Speaker 7: drum and the one obviously, and then Dila, who freed

2751
02:33:14,160 --> 02:33:16,560
Speaker 7: us from the grid. You know, he established.

2752
02:33:18,400 --> 02:33:22,880
Speaker 1: I had to it's only right, you know.

2753
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:28,320
Speaker 7: He he sort of renegotiated the relationship between man and machine.

2754
02:33:28,440 --> 02:33:31,000
Speaker 7: To me, now it's different because if you look at

2755
02:33:31,040 --> 02:33:34,119
Speaker 7: I know, you got soul right. You have these two

2756
02:33:34,200 --> 02:33:37,480
Speaker 7: breakbeat records that really made hip hop funky in a

2757
02:33:37,520 --> 02:33:41,600
Speaker 7: way that a quantized drum machine couldn't. But there was

2758
02:33:41,640 --> 02:33:45,400
Speaker 7: something about what Dila was doing that for the first time,

2759
02:33:45,600 --> 02:33:49,320
Speaker 7: traditional musicians are trying to do what he did. And

2760
02:33:49,520 --> 02:33:53,160
Speaker 7: I feel very funny laying this out here because the

2761
02:33:53,320 --> 02:33:57,760
Speaker 7: very first traditional musician to, you know, to try to

2762
02:33:58,240 --> 02:34:00,879
Speaker 7: succeed in doing that as you Oh.

2763
02:34:00,879 --> 02:34:06,120
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, who is it? Like, I gotta know who

2764
02:34:06,160 --> 02:34:15,840
Speaker 1: it is? I forgot. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's weird, man.

2765
02:34:15,959 --> 02:34:20,280
Speaker 1: It's just like during that period, I was the exact

2766
02:34:20,360 --> 02:34:24,840
Speaker 1: opposite because I had such a chip on my sto. Yeah,

2767
02:34:24,840 --> 02:34:29,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to be perfect and and it took d

2768
02:34:29,760 --> 02:34:33,440
Speaker 1: and Dyla for the most part to unravel that, that

2769
02:34:33,800 --> 02:34:36,920
Speaker 1: that yarn that I had wrapped myself in a perfection

2770
02:34:37,120 --> 02:34:42,360
Speaker 1: and coldness that it's just hard to describe. Like even today,

2771
02:34:42,520 --> 02:34:48,440
Speaker 1: I think, uh, the the cats from the Lumineers were

2772
02:34:48,480 --> 02:34:51,680
Speaker 1: on the show today and we were just in our zone.

2773
02:34:51,720 --> 02:34:54,160
Speaker 1: We did like three or four Dila joints in a row,

2774
02:34:54,360 --> 02:34:57,000
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean there's there's a lot of

2775
02:34:57,080 --> 02:35:00,360
Speaker 1: downtime in the show like that. You don't see speaking

2776
02:35:00,360 --> 02:35:04,760
Speaker 1: of the tonight show, there's a lot of downtime in

2777
02:35:04,879 --> 02:35:07,880
Speaker 1: which sets have to be changed whatever. So we're just

2778
02:35:07,959 --> 02:35:11,600
Speaker 1: jamming amongst ourselves and we just got lost in a

2779
02:35:11,680 --> 02:35:16,280
Speaker 1: rabbit hole of crazy timing. And you know, I was

2780
02:35:16,320 --> 02:35:18,880
Speaker 1: trying to explain to them it was like some new

2781
02:35:19,440 --> 02:35:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, the way you guys did that crazy thing

2782
02:35:22,879 --> 02:35:24,880
Speaker 1: with the beat. I don't know how to describe it,

2783
02:35:26,480 --> 02:35:29,440
Speaker 1: and it was weird, like I couldn't describe it to

2784
02:35:29,560 --> 02:35:35,640
Speaker 1: them either. So it's like that that's the fear that

2785
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:39,720
Speaker 1: I feel like I will drop history or or drop

2786
02:35:41,720 --> 02:35:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, misrepresent his his importance. But you know, I'm

2787
02:35:46,720 --> 02:35:50,480
Speaker 1: glad that you you know that you're you're stepping up

2788
02:35:50,520 --> 02:35:51,119
Speaker 1: to well.

2789
02:35:51,120 --> 02:35:54,720
Speaker 7: I don't claim to be a Della expert by any stretch.

2790
02:35:54,879 --> 02:35:58,920
Speaker 7: I mean, my personal history is weird in this sense

2791
02:35:58,959 --> 02:36:01,440
Speaker 7: because my very first trip to Detroit was to work

2792
02:36:01,480 --> 02:36:05,920
Speaker 7: with him Gino and Gino excel and I flew to Detroit. Yeah,

2793
02:36:06,360 --> 02:36:11,360
Speaker 7: and the other one, the one would Sphere and how

2794
02:36:11,440 --> 02:36:12,760
Speaker 7: it Goes, I think is the name of that song.

2795
02:36:13,200 --> 02:36:16,039
Speaker 1: So we flew to Detroit.

2796
02:36:16,240 --> 02:36:19,840
Speaker 7: We stayed, you know, downtown, We drove out to Gardens

2797
02:36:19,959 --> 02:36:23,640
Speaker 7: we yeah, athanaeum right, and we went to his house

2798
02:36:23,720 --> 02:36:27,440
Speaker 7: on Nevada and met my duke's and went downstairs and

2799
02:36:27,720 --> 02:36:30,480
Speaker 7: Common was recording like Water for Chocolate with him. Around

2800
02:36:30,520 --> 02:36:33,800
Speaker 7: that time, we went to the Mongolian barbecue and deeborn

2801
02:36:33,879 --> 02:36:37,040
Speaker 7: dearborn across from studio A like the whole thing, And

2802
02:36:37,360 --> 02:36:39,640
Speaker 7: what was really weird is Adilla laid the tracks and

2803
02:36:39,800 --> 02:36:44,120
Speaker 7: then vanished. Oh wow, and that was it, basically, you know.

2804
02:36:44,920 --> 02:36:47,600
Speaker 7: And I understand that sometimes that was the way he

2805
02:36:47,760 --> 02:36:51,080
Speaker 7: worked or whatever, and that I would never have imagined

2806
02:36:51,120 --> 02:36:53,480
Speaker 7: that moment that I would have sort of another part

2807
02:36:53,520 --> 02:36:55,800
Speaker 7: of my life in Detroit many years later. My wife

2808
02:36:55,879 --> 02:36:58,240
Speaker 7: is from Detroit. I'm back there all the time, and

2809
02:36:58,360 --> 02:37:00,440
Speaker 7: every time i'm there, I think of that first time.

2810
02:37:00,480 --> 02:37:02,640
Speaker 7: And that's where the genesis of the class came from.

2811
02:37:04,200 --> 02:37:07,040
Speaker 1: So does she say what up? Though she does not.

2812
02:37:07,640 --> 02:37:07,880
Speaker 1: She does.

2813
02:37:10,080 --> 02:37:12,760
Speaker 7: She's a poet and a tenured professor at the New School,

2814
02:37:12,840 --> 02:37:17,280
Speaker 7: so she does not say, yeah, but I want to

2815
02:37:17,480 --> 02:37:19,600
Speaker 7: here's the theory. Here's the theory about Dila time. I

2816
02:37:19,640 --> 02:37:22,400
Speaker 7: wanted to run it by you, and I'm thinking of

2817
02:37:23,200 --> 02:37:26,560
Speaker 7: sort of staking a claim that because everybody's talking about

2818
02:37:26,560 --> 02:37:28,440
Speaker 7: what is what is Diyl time? Oh well, it's just

2819
02:37:28,800 --> 02:37:31,840
Speaker 7: he doesn't quantize the beasts. That's good, that's not exactly it.

2820
02:37:31,959 --> 02:37:34,800
Speaker 7: And oh it's septuplet swing. But yeah, but that doesn't

2821
02:37:34,800 --> 02:37:38,560
Speaker 7: account for the for the rushed snare. So my feeling

2822
02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:40,880
Speaker 7: is that Dila time, what Dila time really is? What

2823
02:37:41,080 --> 02:37:44,480
Speaker 7: what all of the traditional and electronic musicians are trying

2824
02:37:44,520 --> 02:37:50,000
Speaker 7: to do. Is it's the deliberate cultivation, uh of tension

2825
02:37:50,959 --> 02:37:55,920
Speaker 7: between straight and swung elements in a song, and that

2826
02:37:56,120 --> 02:37:58,320
Speaker 7: tension is dynamic, it changes over time.

2827
02:37:59,440 --> 02:38:03,280
Speaker 1: That's that's that's the Thelonious Monk theory, remember his idea

2828
02:38:03,280 --> 02:38:06,480
Speaker 1: of subnes. But there's the rhythm version of it. And

2829
02:38:06,560 --> 02:38:09,920
Speaker 1: it's weird because between Dyla there's Prince and the risk,

2830
02:38:11,800 --> 02:38:15,039
Speaker 1: both of them, both of whom I consider the risk

2831
02:38:15,120 --> 02:38:19,120
Speaker 1: more the accidental tourist where you take a song like

2832
02:38:19,320 --> 02:38:24,240
Speaker 1: uh yeah. Verbal Intercourse is a perfect example of that,

2833
02:38:24,640 --> 02:38:26,960
Speaker 1: where it's just like sounds funky, leave it like it is.

2834
02:38:28,080 --> 02:38:33,600
Speaker 1: And Prince well, Susan Rodgers recently admit it because if

2835
02:38:33,640 --> 02:38:38,440
Speaker 1: you listen to the Prince's stuff, you'll notice that he'll

2836
02:38:38,640 --> 02:38:44,160
Speaker 1: program almost uh kind of like in sixty four bars,

2837
02:38:44,840 --> 02:38:48,200
Speaker 1: you're really supposed to do four, maybe eight, maybe sixteen

2838
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:50,840
Speaker 1: of your club, but sixty four bars that means you're

2839
02:38:50,879 --> 02:38:54,720
Speaker 1: planning ahead of time with drum feels that only will

2840
02:38:54,760 --> 02:38:59,520
Speaker 1: come around maybe once in your song, right, And that's

2841
02:38:59,560 --> 02:39:02,880
Speaker 1: how Masi was. But he would also save tracks and

2842
02:39:02,959 --> 02:39:06,160
Speaker 1: which he would do stuff by hand just so it

2843
02:39:06,200 --> 02:39:07,160
Speaker 1: can sound human.

2844
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:10,600
Speaker 7: Well, you were the person who described the toree in

2845
02:39:10,720 --> 02:39:14,720
Speaker 7: his book, the the straight clap from the drum machine

2846
02:39:14,720 --> 02:39:18,600
Speaker 7: and Lady cab Driver. But he's playing by hand, right, Yeah,

2847
02:39:19,240 --> 02:39:22,040
Speaker 7: then he does this other thing rhythmically with the bass. Right.

2848
02:39:22,400 --> 02:39:26,040
Speaker 7: If you listen to like Irresistible Bitch or Tricky, he

2849
02:39:26,240 --> 02:39:31,840
Speaker 7: will give you almost a shell of what the baseline is.

2850
02:39:32,000 --> 02:39:36,320
Speaker 7: He'll play like two notes out of eight, right, but

2851
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:40,640
Speaker 7: for the eight, so you hear the eight, but you

2852
02:39:40,760 --> 02:39:41,520
Speaker 7: don't hear the eight.

2853
02:39:43,240 --> 02:39:46,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we're brothers. That's why I was surprised

2854
02:39:46,120 --> 02:39:47,520
Speaker 1: that I had never met each other. I was like,

2855
02:39:47,720 --> 02:39:52,240
Speaker 1: you have you have met boys show? Wait?

2856
02:39:52,280 --> 02:39:54,160
Speaker 7: Were you there at the time? I may have been there,

2857
02:39:54,200 --> 02:39:57,360
Speaker 7: But here's where we met. We met when I worked

2858
02:39:57,400 --> 02:40:00,520
Speaker 7: for Forrest. I came to Sigma Sound to meet with

2859
02:40:00,920 --> 02:40:06,000
Speaker 7: Richard right who rest in peace man. I never had

2860
02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:08,280
Speaker 7: a chance to tell you in person. I was so

2861
02:40:08,440 --> 02:40:13,680
Speaker 7: sad to hear his passing. And then after that, the

2862
02:40:13,760 --> 02:40:19,120
Speaker 7: next saw you was out in the musicology tour in

2863
02:40:19,879 --> 02:40:26,240
Speaker 7: the meadowlands. It was it was you were just walking

2864
02:40:26,360 --> 02:40:28,720
Speaker 7: and getting a drink from the water fountain in the middle,

2865
02:40:28,840 --> 02:40:30,560
Speaker 7: you know, in the middle of this Prince concert for

2866
02:40:30,920 --> 02:40:33,360
Speaker 7: college and I just walked up to you. I didn't

2867
02:40:33,360 --> 02:40:36,160
Speaker 7: even introduce myself. I just said, you're my favorite drummer.

2868
02:40:37,800 --> 02:40:40,240
Speaker 7: That's all I said. That's all I said. And then

2869
02:40:40,280 --> 02:40:42,560
Speaker 7: I think the next time I saw you was when

2870
02:40:42,600 --> 02:40:46,280
Speaker 7: I did the Experienced Music Project thing on Breakbeats and

2871
02:40:46,400 --> 02:40:50,240
Speaker 7: you were That's when you played the Rod Temperton uh

2872
02:40:52,800 --> 02:40:56,680
Speaker 7: demo for you. Wo.

2873
02:40:57,000 --> 02:40:59,640
Speaker 1: Yes, what did I tell you already?

2874
02:40:59,720 --> 02:40:59,879
Speaker 6: Yeah?

2875
02:41:00,040 --> 02:41:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm waiting. I'm waiting. Yeah, we'll talk. Okay,

2876
02:41:04,480 --> 02:41:07,200
Speaker 1: we'll talk after hey, but it's a pleasure to be

2877
02:41:07,320 --> 02:41:07,640
Speaker 1: here now.

2878
02:41:07,720 --> 02:41:08,520
Speaker 7: Better late than never.

2879
02:41:08,959 --> 02:41:15,200
Speaker 2: Like I want to talk about meats and plots, man,

2880
02:41:15,720 --> 02:41:18,480
Speaker 2: I want to talk about you know, so this book

2881
02:41:18,720 --> 02:41:21,800
Speaker 2: it was after you wrote The Big Payback. Uh, this

2882
02:41:22,040 --> 02:41:26,080
Speaker 2: is a book about how shifts can teach you how

2883
02:41:26,120 --> 02:41:31,920
Speaker 2: to organize your life. So tell us about like the

2884
02:41:32,000 --> 02:41:34,960
Speaker 2: principles of that, Like what are the and by the way,

2885
02:41:35,000 --> 02:41:37,480
Speaker 2: I actually bought this book, I have to read it.

2886
02:41:37,840 --> 02:41:41,520
Speaker 2: Work clean is the name, So tell us about that,

2887
02:41:41,760 --> 02:41:43,640
Speaker 2: like just the philosophy of meats and plots and what

2888
02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:44,119
Speaker 2: that means.

2889
02:41:44,600 --> 02:41:48,160
Speaker 7: After I wrote The Big Payback. You know, it's a

2890
02:41:48,200 --> 02:41:51,879
Speaker 7: six hundred and sixty page book, and I just was drained,

2891
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:54,560
Speaker 7: you know, and I had a wife and a baby

2892
02:41:54,640 --> 02:41:57,880
Speaker 7: and a you know, I didn't I couldn't imagine myself

2893
02:41:57,959 --> 02:42:02,000
Speaker 7: writing another book, and you know, we were developing the breaks,

2894
02:42:02,080 --> 02:42:04,080
Speaker 7: so you know, I had other things to do.

2895
02:42:04,920 --> 02:42:06,440
Speaker 1: And how long did it take you to write?

2896
02:42:07,200 --> 02:42:10,520
Speaker 7: Just four years? Really really heavy. But my first interview

2897
02:42:10,560 --> 02:42:12,959
Speaker 7: I did for The Big Payback was ten years before

2898
02:42:13,200 --> 02:42:19,959
Speaker 7: the book came out, So, you know, work Clean came

2899
02:42:20,080 --> 02:42:23,840
Speaker 7: out of the pain of the interim. You know, after

2900
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:26,000
Speaker 7: The Big Payback came out, and I was still working

2901
02:42:26,120 --> 02:42:32,920
Speaker 7: at a corporate media company which shall be unmentioned, and

2902
02:42:33,120 --> 02:42:35,800
Speaker 7: it was just painful to see.

2903
02:42:36,080 --> 02:42:38,320
Speaker 1: At you working there with boss Bill with a branch

2904
02:42:38,360 --> 02:42:38,920
Speaker 1: out that's.

2905
02:42:38,840 --> 02:42:41,480
Speaker 7: Right, that's right where where This is a very funny

2906
02:42:41,480 --> 02:42:44,640
Speaker 7: story when when Bill came in to interview for the

2907
02:42:44,800 --> 02:42:48,680
Speaker 7: job and I found out that he was actually DJ brainchild,

2908
02:42:49,400 --> 02:42:51,840
Speaker 7: I got down on my knees, literally got down on

2909
02:42:51,879 --> 02:42:55,680
Speaker 7: my knees and bowed to him. And Jerry Barrow said

2910
02:42:55,720 --> 02:42:57,600
Speaker 7: to me, you know, that's really not going to help

2911
02:42:57,640 --> 02:43:04,560
Speaker 7: with the salary negotiations. Yeah, well, he's a genius and

2912
02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:07,760
Speaker 7: I'm sorry he's not here right now. But uh so,

2913
02:43:08,560 --> 02:43:12,000
Speaker 7: the pain of seeing waste on such a broad scale,

2914
02:43:12,280 --> 02:43:17,039
Speaker 7: you know, waste of time, waste of resources, waste of space,

2915
02:43:18,120 --> 02:43:21,320
Speaker 7: waste of relationships. And at the time I was just

2916
02:43:21,720 --> 02:43:24,440
Speaker 7: to sort of unwind or whatever, I would read chef

2917
02:43:24,560 --> 02:43:27,120
Speaker 7: narratives all the time. So I read Anthony Bourdain and

2918
02:43:27,200 --> 02:43:33,279
Speaker 7: Michael Roohman and oh the book Heat by Bill Buford,

2919
02:43:33,440 --> 02:43:37,080
Speaker 7: like just the amazing books about the culinary world, not cookbooks,

2920
02:43:37,640 --> 02:43:41,000
Speaker 7: but about chef's lives in the kitchen. And these are

2921
02:43:41,120 --> 02:43:43,480
Speaker 7: you know, wild people and wild narratives. But the one

2922
02:43:43,560 --> 02:43:46,120
Speaker 7: thing that ties them all together is this discipline that

2923
02:43:46,200 --> 02:43:47,400
Speaker 7: they call meson plas.

2924
02:43:47,520 --> 02:43:47,640
Speaker 1: Right.

2925
02:43:48,040 --> 02:43:52,199
Speaker 7: It's a way of relating to time, space, energy, and motion.

2926
02:43:52,959 --> 02:43:54,960
Speaker 7: And it was the only thing that I really wanted

2927
02:43:55,000 --> 02:43:57,119
Speaker 7: to write about, and the reason I wanted to write

2928
02:43:57,120 --> 02:43:59,000
Speaker 7: about it because I look for a book on meson

2929
02:43:59,040 --> 02:44:02,000
Speaker 7: plas and nobody had ever written one. So I just

2930
02:44:02,240 --> 02:44:04,560
Speaker 7: used the tools of the journalist again, and I interviewed

2931
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:06,640
Speaker 7: over one hundred people from the culinary field over the

2932
02:44:06,680 --> 02:44:09,040
Speaker 7: course of two years. I did an NPR story based

2933
02:44:09,120 --> 02:44:13,959
Speaker 7: on that sort of boiled it down to ten principles, right,

2934
02:44:15,000 --> 02:44:19,480
Speaker 7: But they're all about relating to time, space, motion, resources,

2935
02:44:20,400 --> 02:44:24,680
Speaker 7: and just like the way that chefs think about things

2936
02:44:24,720 --> 02:44:28,000
Speaker 7: are is not the way that we think. And for

2937
02:44:28,120 --> 02:44:30,280
Speaker 7: each of the ten principles, I, you know, tell a

2938
02:44:30,360 --> 02:44:32,560
Speaker 7: story of a chef. And one of those chefs happened

2939
02:44:32,600 --> 02:44:35,800
Speaker 7: to be Jerobi White of a Tribe call Quest, whom

2940
02:44:35,840 --> 02:44:38,480
Speaker 7: I had never met, even though I had interviewed. I

2941
02:44:38,600 --> 02:44:40,960
Speaker 7: did the very first press day for trib call Quest,

2942
02:44:41,560 --> 02:44:44,080
Speaker 7: like when they came out in ninety nine, But I

2943
02:44:44,200 --> 02:44:46,280
Speaker 7: never met Jeroby all this time, We've probably been in

2944
02:44:46,320 --> 02:44:49,080
Speaker 7: a million rooms together and never met. And I'm so

2945
02:44:49,280 --> 02:44:51,200
Speaker 7: lucky to count him as a friend now. But I

2946
02:44:51,280 --> 02:44:53,200
Speaker 7: get to tell his story in that book We're Clean.

2947
02:44:53,680 --> 02:44:56,600
Speaker 7: It's a great story. And his his story is about

2948
02:44:57,520 --> 02:45:01,000
Speaker 7: perfecting movements right, how he learned to stop wasting motion

2949
02:45:02,120 --> 02:45:04,320
Speaker 7: and to be really focused in the kitchen. And Jerobi

2950
02:45:04,360 --> 02:45:06,760
Speaker 7: actually came up with the science of the magic triangle,

2951
02:45:07,160 --> 02:45:10,359
Speaker 7: right man, that everything we do is basically a triangle,

2952
02:45:10,600 --> 02:45:13,240
Speaker 7: you know, and we're a circle within a triangle, and

2953
02:45:14,040 --> 02:45:15,520
Speaker 7: that's how we should arrange our space.

2954
02:45:15,640 --> 02:45:19,520
Speaker 1: Have you seen have you seen the founder the Michael

2955
02:45:19,720 --> 02:45:25,360
Speaker 1: Doug Michael Douglas, Michael Keaton knowing about McDonald's across you

2956
02:45:25,440 --> 02:45:28,440
Speaker 1: saw it? I seen it and almost broke my my

2957
02:45:28,720 --> 02:45:35,560
Speaker 1: uh my vegan run cheeseburger right after they talk about

2958
02:45:35,720 --> 02:45:38,000
Speaker 1: oh it's it's really good. It's like it's cold blood

2959
02:45:38,040 --> 02:45:38,840
Speaker 1: as fun but it's good.

2960
02:45:38,879 --> 02:45:43,320
Speaker 2: But they kind of the McDonald brothers they kind of

2961
02:45:44,200 --> 02:45:47,840
Speaker 2: were doing that, like the way they set up their

2962
02:45:47,879 --> 02:45:52,000
Speaker 2: original you know, McDonald's restaurant. It was based on you know,

2963
02:45:52,200 --> 02:45:55,720
Speaker 2: economy of movement like everything. It's funny to hear, like

2964
02:45:55,840 --> 02:45:57,920
Speaker 2: choreograph perfect it was. Yeah, it was really like a

2965
02:45:58,040 --> 02:46:01,840
Speaker 2: routine like the like they practiced in the court on

2966
02:46:01,879 --> 02:46:02,400
Speaker 2: the tennis court.

2967
02:46:02,480 --> 02:46:02,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2968
02:46:02,680 --> 02:46:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they practiced before they even got McDonald's, Like, okay,

2969
02:46:06,320 --> 02:46:08,039
Speaker 1: you do that most in that motion, like not even

2970
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:11,600
Speaker 1: carrying anything. They were just practicing the body motion of

2971
02:46:11,720 --> 02:46:14,000
Speaker 1: how to get you once is off, they go here

2972
02:46:14,160 --> 02:46:16,400
Speaker 1: and then we switch and then like this ship is crazy.

2973
02:46:16,600 --> 02:46:18,560
Speaker 7: Y'all have like a quest love supreme movie night where

2974
02:46:18,600 --> 02:46:19,840
Speaker 7: y'all just go to the Marines together.

2975
02:46:20,280 --> 02:46:23,480
Speaker 1: We need just you know, I mean a book list,

2976
02:46:24,720 --> 02:46:25,360
Speaker 1: a movie night.

2977
02:46:25,560 --> 02:46:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, now we won't get the should we barely watch

2978
02:46:28,320 --> 02:46:31,800
Speaker 2: Uh we did watch what's called as a family kind

2979
02:46:31,840 --> 02:46:37,000
Speaker 2: of not sleep out with meis joint? Oh yeah, yeah,

2980
02:46:37,040 --> 02:46:40,680
Speaker 2: yeah twice don't they watch that we did the musical lesson?

2981
02:46:41,120 --> 02:46:46,320
Speaker 1: Uh, that was good exactly. There's one that you one

2982
02:46:46,360 --> 02:46:48,200
Speaker 1: of their principles that really spoke to me. You talk

2983
02:46:48,200 --> 02:46:49,320
Speaker 1: about clean as you go.

2984
02:46:51,000 --> 02:46:51,560
Speaker 7: Very important.

2985
02:46:52,120 --> 02:46:53,760
Speaker 1: Talk about that one. Well.

2986
02:46:54,360 --> 02:46:59,600
Speaker 7: The science behind clean as you go is that anybody

2987
02:47:00,080 --> 02:47:03,280
Speaker 7: and create a system, like you decide you're going to

2988
02:47:03,360 --> 02:47:06,160
Speaker 7: organize your desk, right, and you spend two hours or

2989
02:47:06,200 --> 02:47:08,640
Speaker 7: three hours or a whole day organizing your space. And

2990
02:47:08,720 --> 02:47:13,600
Speaker 7: it's great, right, And it doesn't mean shit because unless

2991
02:47:13,680 --> 02:47:18,360
Speaker 7: you maintain a system, you can't keep a system. And

2992
02:47:18,480 --> 02:47:20,520
Speaker 7: the only way to maintain a system is to clean

2993
02:47:20,560 --> 02:47:23,480
Speaker 7: as you go, is to keep the system through motion.

2994
02:47:23,959 --> 02:47:24,080
Speaker 1: Right.

2995
02:47:24,520 --> 02:47:26,840
Speaker 7: A system is not to be looked at, right, Oh,

2996
02:47:26,920 --> 02:47:30,240
Speaker 7: I've organized things. It's like, you know, the system is

2997
02:47:30,360 --> 02:47:32,560
Speaker 7: not a noun, it's a verb. Right, So you have

2998
02:47:32,640 --> 02:47:34,840
Speaker 7: to be able to move through things. So you have

2999
02:47:35,000 --> 02:47:38,840
Speaker 7: to make that commitment to you know, put things back

3000
02:47:39,400 --> 02:47:44,120
Speaker 7: where they go, right. And that doesn't just work for

3001
02:47:44,160 --> 02:47:46,360
Speaker 7: the physical world. It also works for the virtual world.

3002
02:47:46,400 --> 02:47:49,520
Speaker 7: It works for the emotional world, right, And it's just

3003
02:47:49,600 --> 02:47:54,840
Speaker 7: about taking that extra two seconds to put something away

3004
02:47:55,080 --> 02:47:58,960
Speaker 7: so that you're not costing yourself. You know, a minute

3005
02:47:59,120 --> 02:48:02,240
Speaker 7: or two later, or you know, making a real mistake.

3006
02:48:02,480 --> 02:48:04,360
Speaker 7: You know I did. One of the stories I tell

3007
02:48:04,440 --> 02:48:06,080
Speaker 7: that book is how my burn my I got like

3008
02:48:06,160 --> 02:48:09,040
Speaker 7: second degree burns on my hand because my dear wife

3009
02:48:09,320 --> 02:48:12,160
Speaker 7: put very hot pan down on top of the garbage

3010
02:48:12,200 --> 02:48:14,480
Speaker 7: can where hot pant is not supposed to go. Yeah,

3011
02:48:14,560 --> 02:48:17,240
Speaker 7: you know, and but it was my failure for not

3012
02:48:17,360 --> 02:48:21,160
Speaker 7: being aware. That's one of the principles is awareness. And

3013
02:48:21,520 --> 02:48:25,000
Speaker 7: you know she wasn't, you know, maintaining her system as

3014
02:48:25,080 --> 02:48:26,640
Speaker 7: she went. So we both had to learn from.

3015
02:48:26,640 --> 02:48:28,040
Speaker 1: How do you apply this to your life?

3016
02:48:28,040 --> 02:48:30,960
Speaker 2: Because I know you're like we like, I mean, you

3017
02:48:31,040 --> 02:48:34,160
Speaker 2: talk a lot about like meditation and stuff. You're like

3018
02:48:34,360 --> 02:48:37,240
Speaker 2: heavy into yoga orly you know what I'm saying.

3019
02:48:37,280 --> 02:48:39,040
Speaker 1: And you were telling me about like last time it

3020
02:48:39,160 --> 02:48:41,040
Speaker 1: was a it was like some kind of squat that

3021
02:48:41,160 --> 02:48:45,960
Speaker 1: you do that transfers the sexual energy out of your

3022
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:48,160
Speaker 1: body so you don't be thinking about fucking these holes.

3023
02:48:48,600 --> 02:48:50,400
Speaker 1: I can't I can't remember the name of that squad,

3024
02:48:50,480 --> 02:48:54,800
Speaker 1: but it was no but he no, he was. He

3025
02:48:54,959 --> 02:48:56,480
Speaker 1: was giving me game for focus.

3026
02:48:56,560 --> 02:48:58,640
Speaker 6: I'm saying, I'm really real, I.

3027
02:49:00,160 --> 02:49:09,640
Speaker 1: Like everybody, So how do you applow this? Because I mean, dude,

3028
02:49:09,760 --> 02:49:11,840
Speaker 1: like from I know what life was like for me

3029
02:49:11,920 --> 02:49:14,280
Speaker 1: when we were working on the breaks, and I can

3030
02:49:14,360 --> 02:49:16,480
Speaker 1: only imagine what the fuck was like for you in

3031
02:49:16,600 --> 02:49:21,360
Speaker 1: between that and NYU and you know, family, how do

3032
02:49:21,440 --> 02:49:22,440
Speaker 1: you apply this to your life?

3033
02:49:22,440 --> 02:49:24,200
Speaker 7: I'm not perfect at it. I mean I have I

3034
02:49:24,320 --> 02:49:26,160
Speaker 7: do too much and I get sick, you know, and

3035
02:49:26,280 --> 02:49:28,720
Speaker 7: that's not good. You know, I got pneumonia last year.

3036
02:49:29,320 --> 02:49:34,640
Speaker 1: Like it was. It was bad, Yeah, damn.

3037
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:38,600
Speaker 7: But uh, you know, for me, you know, one of

3038
02:49:38,600 --> 02:49:41,720
Speaker 7: the principles that's really helped me is, you know, the

3039
02:49:41,879 --> 02:49:44,280
Speaker 7: idea of what do you do? What do you choose

3040
02:49:44,360 --> 02:49:45,040
Speaker 7: to do first?

3041
02:49:45,360 --> 02:49:45,480
Speaker 1: Right?

3042
02:49:45,879 --> 02:49:48,480
Speaker 7: And all of the systems of organization that are very

3043
02:49:48,600 --> 02:49:52,800
Speaker 7: popular talk about you do the worst first, right. Stephen

3044
02:49:52,920 --> 02:49:55,440
Speaker 7: Covey all of his books like talks about you put

3045
02:49:55,480 --> 02:49:57,840
Speaker 7: the big rocks in the jar first, not the small rocks,

3046
02:49:57,879 --> 02:50:00,000
Speaker 7: because the big rocks are what counting. If you don't

3047
02:50:00,080 --> 02:50:02,120
Speaker 7: get the big rocks in first, you know, and you

3048
02:50:02,240 --> 02:50:03,920
Speaker 7: put the small rocks in, how are you ever going

3049
02:50:03,959 --> 02:50:04,800
Speaker 7: to get the big rocks in?

3050
02:50:05,040 --> 02:50:05,200
Speaker 1: Right?

3051
02:50:05,480 --> 02:50:08,320
Speaker 7: All that do the worst first, And the thing is

3052
02:50:08,800 --> 02:50:10,039
Speaker 7: you don't do.

3053
02:50:10,160 --> 02:50:11,880
Speaker 1: The worst first out that it takes it out of you,

3054
02:50:12,120 --> 02:50:13,080
Speaker 1: Like you don't do it else.

3055
02:50:13,640 --> 02:50:16,320
Speaker 7: For another reason is that chefs actually see the world

3056
02:50:16,440 --> 02:50:21,160
Speaker 7: in two separate, like parallel kinds of time. There's process

3057
02:50:21,280 --> 02:50:26,200
Speaker 7: time and then there's intensive time, right, processed hands on

3058
02:50:26,320 --> 02:50:29,720
Speaker 7: and hands off time essentially, right, something intensive like oh,

3059
02:50:29,840 --> 02:50:31,280
Speaker 7: I need to make a beat, or I need to

3060
02:50:31,360 --> 02:50:33,680
Speaker 7: write this essay, or I need to do whatever with

3061
02:50:33,840 --> 02:50:38,920
Speaker 7: my hands, right, you can't delegate that. You can't. You know,

3062
02:50:40,000 --> 02:50:42,680
Speaker 7: you have to be there. So three hours is worth

3063
02:50:43,200 --> 02:50:46,279
Speaker 7: three hours of you know, your work is worth three hours.

3064
02:50:47,160 --> 02:50:51,360
Speaker 7: But there are other things called that set processes in

3065
02:50:51,480 --> 02:50:56,760
Speaker 7: motion that you can do called process time. Like I

3066
02:50:56,879 --> 02:51:01,000
Speaker 7: need to make the rice for dinner, right, I can't

3067
02:51:01,080 --> 02:51:03,400
Speaker 7: do that at the end of it because it takes

3068
02:51:03,560 --> 02:51:05,440
Speaker 7: a while to make the rice, right, So I have

3069
02:51:05,600 --> 02:51:09,120
Speaker 7: to do it first. It only takes five seconds, but

3070
02:51:09,280 --> 02:51:13,160
Speaker 7: that five seconds is worth the you know, thirty minutes

3071
02:51:13,280 --> 02:51:16,000
Speaker 7: that it takes to make that rice. So sometimes you

3072
02:51:16,080 --> 02:51:18,760
Speaker 7: can't do the worst first. Sometimes you have to start

3073
02:51:18,879 --> 02:51:23,360
Speaker 7: processes so you can get hours of work for just minutes,

3074
02:51:23,680 --> 02:51:26,760
Speaker 7: hours of worth for just minutes of the minutes. That's

3075
02:51:26,800 --> 02:51:27,640
Speaker 7: how chefs think.

3076
02:51:27,840 --> 02:51:28,080
Speaker 1: Damn.

3077
02:51:28,200 --> 02:51:29,000
Speaker 7: So that's helped me.

3078
02:51:29,879 --> 02:51:34,320
Speaker 1: I gotta redo my book again. I feel inadequately.

3079
02:51:35,280 --> 02:51:37,800
Speaker 7: Now you're you're working on a box Wiley or something.

3080
02:51:37,840 --> 02:51:42,240
Speaker 1: I heard. Oh no, no, no, no, I did mind.

3081
02:51:42,280 --> 02:51:45,320
Speaker 1: I mean mine was more or less about the creative process. Yeah,

3082
02:51:45,360 --> 02:51:47,360
Speaker 1: I bought both yos something the food about. I bought

3083
02:51:47,400 --> 02:51:51,240
Speaker 1: both y'alls on the same it's about the creative process.

3084
02:51:51,320 --> 02:51:55,360
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, you go to the ninth level

3085
02:51:55,440 --> 02:52:01,720
Speaker 1: of hell to get that these theories that I didn't

3086
02:52:01,720 --> 02:52:04,360
Speaker 1: even think about. Like, I'm just thinking that chefs are

3087
02:52:04,480 --> 02:52:08,480
Speaker 1: like musicians in their creative process, but you're taking it

3088
02:52:08,560 --> 02:52:09,760
Speaker 1: to a whole other level.

3089
02:52:10,600 --> 02:52:13,240
Speaker 6: It's still parallel. It's interesting because y'all too still went parallel.

3090
02:52:13,280 --> 02:52:16,520
Speaker 6: It's still the same. It's you know, the food, the music,

3091
02:52:17,240 --> 02:52:19,840
Speaker 6: the teaching, it rounds out. It's just interesting.

3092
02:52:20,040 --> 02:52:24,000
Speaker 1: That's what I learned. Well, we were about to wrap up,

3093
02:52:24,000 --> 02:52:26,280
Speaker 1: but I was about to say I learned that I

3094
02:52:26,440 --> 02:52:33,600
Speaker 1: really have a Yeah, who knew we look alike. We

3095
02:52:33,800 --> 02:52:39,040
Speaker 1: love Dylan and Prince and Prince bootlegs and yeah, yeah,

3096
02:52:39,320 --> 02:52:43,560
Speaker 1: we both loved Bill Johnson, Bill Johnson unpaid Bill, and

3097
02:52:43,879 --> 02:52:50,200
Speaker 1: we have projects that use night on ball Ball by

3098
02:52:50,280 --> 02:53:01,320
Speaker 1: Bob James. No, no, it's so obvious that like it's yeah,

3099
02:53:01,920 --> 02:53:04,200
Speaker 1: tell him. Is that what we do is that this

3100
02:53:04,280 --> 02:53:10,960
Speaker 1: story end I totally forgot about.

3101
02:53:11,680 --> 02:53:16,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, oh yes, give it to him.

3102
02:53:19,080 --> 02:53:22,800
Speaker 4: May give it he said, He said that he kind

3103
02:53:22,840 --> 02:53:23,480
Speaker 4: of gave it away.

3104
02:53:23,520 --> 02:53:26,880
Speaker 1: I did. I played it, Yeah, you played it good? Wow?

3105
02:53:28,120 --> 02:53:30,120
Speaker 1: I think I got it on my phone. I learned

3106
02:53:30,200 --> 02:53:34,240
Speaker 1: that Steve is the jazz master of the Circle. I

3107
02:53:34,360 --> 02:53:37,800
Speaker 1: just said, cheated late like he said it like an

3108
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:38,280
Speaker 1: hour ago.

3109
02:53:38,640 --> 02:53:42,240
Speaker 7: All right, Well what he did with that beat, it's unbelievable.

3110
02:53:42,800 --> 02:53:46,640
Speaker 1: Is the intro I play it I live. I think

3111
02:53:46,680 --> 02:53:51,119
Speaker 1: it was the intro is used because I never get

3112
02:53:51,200 --> 02:53:55,280
Speaker 1: past arrested development right, There's other parts of the song, no, but.

3113
02:53:55,360 --> 02:53:57,520
Speaker 7: I couldn't get past me. I said, how can anybody

3114
02:53:57,600 --> 02:54:01,360
Speaker 7: make anything not corny? This? Sorry?

3115
02:54:01,440 --> 02:54:03,720
Speaker 1: And I sent him. I was like, yo, I think

3116
02:54:03,800 --> 02:54:07,480
Speaker 1: this part is you know in prim us you were right,

3117
02:54:07,600 --> 02:54:08,480
Speaker 1: you were so right.

3118
02:54:08,959 --> 02:54:12,320
Speaker 7: And what makes it great is that prem also flips

3119
02:54:12,360 --> 02:54:18,400
Speaker 7: the NT drums. I think I think he uses the

3120
02:54:19,520 --> 02:54:22,480
Speaker 7: you know that right, the one that everybody likes.

3121
02:54:23,440 --> 02:54:26,000
Speaker 1: Because they originally I think the first draft of that

3122
02:54:26,280 --> 02:54:30,320
Speaker 1: song it was it was he he had used misdemeanor

3123
02:54:30,720 --> 02:54:33,160
Speaker 1: and at that time, I'm just like, well, you know,

3124
02:54:33,320 --> 02:54:35,920
Speaker 1: this is nineteen ninety so it's funky enough. Pretty much

3125
02:54:36,160 --> 02:54:38,280
Speaker 1: killed misdemeanor. So I was like, I don't think we

3126
02:54:38,360 --> 02:54:41,120
Speaker 1: could you know, use that, but uh but yeah, y'all

3127
02:54:41,160 --> 02:54:42,840
Speaker 1: take it into the next level. Even I would have

3128
02:54:42,920 --> 02:54:45,119
Speaker 1: let that slide. Yeah, I was like, nah, that's that's

3129
02:54:45,200 --> 02:54:49,720
Speaker 1: DC so but uh but nah. Man. So right now,

3130
02:54:50,480 --> 02:54:54,440
Speaker 1: how are your days spent? I mean it's it's, you know,

3131
02:54:54,840 --> 02:55:00,600
Speaker 1: teaching once the breaks is, once this season finishes, we

3132
02:55:00,680 --> 02:55:03,840
Speaker 1: get word on you know, season two Google, you know,

3133
02:55:03,920 --> 02:55:07,840
Speaker 1: one way or another. A. Yeah, if it's assuming it is,

3134
02:55:08,280 --> 02:55:09,039
Speaker 1: when do you go back?

3135
02:55:09,560 --> 02:55:10,120
Speaker 6: It is? It is?

3136
02:55:10,280 --> 02:55:13,040
Speaker 1: When do you go back into the writer's room next month?

3137
02:55:13,959 --> 02:55:14,199
Speaker 7: Ship?

3138
02:55:14,560 --> 02:55:19,160
Speaker 1: Are you serious? So get back to work, gran wake

3139
02:55:19,240 --> 02:55:20,440
Speaker 1: up call. Wow.

3140
02:55:21,360 --> 02:55:23,400
Speaker 7: I'm also working on a bit of a I told

3141
02:55:23,440 --> 02:55:26,800
Speaker 7: you a little project for Russell as well. Yeah, so

3142
02:55:26,920 --> 02:55:29,000
Speaker 7: you actually did hire me after all those years.

3143
02:55:30,720 --> 02:55:32,560
Speaker 1: I feel like, you say, a little project for Russell

3144
02:55:32,560 --> 02:55:37,920
Speaker 1: will be like Crush Groove two. All right, So, Dan,

3145
02:55:38,320 --> 02:55:40,720
Speaker 1: i'd like to thank you for doing our show.

3146
02:55:40,920 --> 02:55:41,680
Speaker 7: We appreciate it.

3147
02:55:42,720 --> 02:55:45,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. It's very hard.

3148
02:55:46,280 --> 02:55:48,200
Speaker 7: I'm like, it's the normal length of the show. Y'all

3149
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:50,040
Speaker 7: going to edit this down to like fifteen minutes.

3150
02:55:51,040 --> 02:55:53,560
Speaker 1: This is Quest Love Supreme. We go along.

3151
02:55:54,360 --> 02:55:54,720
Speaker 7: This is.

3152
02:55:58,520 --> 02:56:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean Wow Yeah the Breaks. Check us out Monday

3153
02:56:03,560 --> 02:56:08,920
Speaker 1: nights nine eight Central on v H one every Monday. Yeah, nope,

3154
02:56:08,920 --> 02:56:11,360
Speaker 1: come come, I let us well, thank you very much.

3155
02:56:11,480 --> 02:56:15,680
Speaker 1: On behalf of the Question Love Supreme team, this is

3156
02:56:15,800 --> 02:56:20,760
Speaker 1: Quest Love apparently not the Bob Jeams expert. I thought

3157
02:56:20,800 --> 02:56:28,039
Speaker 1: I was h whatever. We will see you next week

3158
02:56:29,320 --> 02:56:32,320
Speaker 1: Wednesday at one pm with an all new episode of

3159
02:56:32,400 --> 02:56:53,800
Speaker 1: Question Love Supreme. All right, y'all next week. Court Love

3160
02:56:53,879 --> 02:56:57,720
Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was

3161
02:56:57,760 --> 02:57:05,040
Speaker 1: produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

3162
02:57:05,200 --> 02:57:08,920
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

3163
02:57:08,959 --> 02:57:09,879
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.