1 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat. 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: I am the host. And if you are new and 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: you don't know what couch Talks is, it is the 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I answer 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: questions that you sent to me and you can send 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: those too Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: And quick disclaimer that I always give. Although this is 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: a podcast where I'm answering your questions and I'm a therapist, 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: this does not serve as a replacement or a substitute 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: for any mental health services, including therapy. However, it's still 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: allowed to help. So this week's couch Talks question, that's 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: a hard thing to say. Couch Talks question, Couch Talks question, 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: couch Talks, couch Talks question. I want everybody in their 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: car wherever you're to say that five times fast and 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: see how it goes. Anyway, this week's couch Talk's question 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: comes in relation to the Four Horsemen series that I'm 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: doing right now, and if you are not up to 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: speed on what that is. The four Horsemen are these 20 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: four things that people do in relationships when trying to 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: resolve conflict or move through conflict that actually make the 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,199 Speaker 1: conflict worse and have a big part in predicting whether 23 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: or not a relationship will last. And the three that 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: we've gotten through so far our criticism, contempt, in defensiveness. 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: We haven't gotten to stonewalling yet. That one is coming 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: in the next week or two. But this question comes 27 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: from listening to that series. So I'm gonna read the question, 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: then we're going to talk about it. Hey, Kat, after 29 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: listening to your episodes on The Four Horsemen, I realize 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: that this self conflict management applies to me and my 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: best friend more than my partner and me. I'm going 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: to go ahead and take responsibility for my part in 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: our current situation because I think that I use criticism 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: and defensiveness just as much as my friend does. Long 35 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: story short, she is more like a sister to me, 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: and I always thought we fought like sisters. However, recently 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: I've noticed myself getting resentful towards her, gossiping about her, 38 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: and just having thoughts about my best friend that I 39 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: really don't like having. My question is should I bring 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: this up. She isn't one to talk about feeling as much, 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: and I can almost see how the conversation might go. 42 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: I don't want her to think that I think I'm 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: better than her by sharing what I've learned. And I 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: also don't want her to think I'm being dramatic or 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: making a big deal out of something that she thinks 46 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: is normal. How would you tell your best friend that 47 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: you think you have an unhealthy communication pattern and at 48 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: the same time you have an idea on how to 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: work on it. After writing this, I feel like this 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't be that hard, but it feels scary and hard 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: to me. Thanks, well, this is hard, because this is hard. 52 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: Even if you are talking about somebody who loves talking 53 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: about feelings and loves going to therapy and all that, 54 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: there still would be a hard thing to talk about 55 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: because anytime feelings come up, there is some unknown. There's 56 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: just discomfort in that, and you know humans like to 57 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: be comfortable. This sounds like it's also something you've never 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: done before, which makes it scary and hard because again 59 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: the unknown. And I think that's worth acknowledging. And I 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: want to just let you know that it's okay, that 61 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: it's hard. Even if it seems simple, things can be 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: simple and hard at the same time now. I want 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: to start with saying that while we need to consider 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: and take into consideration what might be the best way 65 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: for your friend to receive this information, we can't get 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: too caught up on the right way to make her 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: receive the information well because we can't control how she 68 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: receives anything. We can take into account what would be 69 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: a helpful way to do so, but we cannot force 70 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: her to receive it well. And what you really want 71 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: to focus on here is how do I make sure 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm communicating this in a way that feels healthy and 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: what feels good to me, and hopefully that flows through 74 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: into what she hears. I think it's pretty important to 75 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: pay attention to how your communication has influenced your thoughts 76 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: about your friend and vice versa. It sounds like it's 77 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: a big deal and it might be really poisoning your 78 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: relationship in a bigger way than you might have realized. 79 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: Because you mentioned you thought you just thought this is 80 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: how sisters fight, and maybe we fight like sisters. To me, 81 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: it sounds like you're in the cycle that doesn't leave 82 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: a lot of room for you both to appreciate each 83 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: other and feel appreciated by each other, and without knowing 84 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: the details of what's going on between y'all, I would 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: imagine that there's a lack of feeling validated and heard 86 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: by each other, in being feeling appreciated by each other, 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: and that has been really the source of those ikey 88 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: thoughts and resentment and the need to kind of like 89 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: criticize each other versus ask for what you need. So 90 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could try something super simple, although 91 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: it might still feel hard to you, like saying, hey, 92 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: I've recently noticed that I've gotten into a pattern of 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: both criticizing you and feeling criticized by you, and showing 94 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: up defensive in some of our most recent conflicts like 95 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: when blank and you can give an actual example, a 96 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: simple one, and then you could say, I've been learning 97 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: about these two things recently, and I wanted to talk 98 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: about it so I can take responsibility and apologize for 99 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: my part and share some ideas on how we can 100 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: communicate better when we're feeling frustrated with each other. I'm 101 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: also curious if you've been feeling the same way at all. 102 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: What I want you to first notice in what I 103 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: said is in the beginning, I said, hey, I've noticed 104 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: that I have gotten into a pattern of both criticizing 105 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: you and feeling criticized by you. So what you're saying is, 106 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 1: I've noticed that I've been doing this, and I've noticed 107 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: that I've been feeling this. So you're not saying I've 108 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: noticed that you've been You're saying, I've noticed that I've 109 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: felt and I think that makes a big difference right here, 110 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: and kind of sharing it this way, you're resisting blame 111 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: and opening up a lot of space for your friend 112 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: to feel comfortable sharing her part as well, because you 113 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: are taking that responsibility. Now, remember we can't force her 114 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: to share her part or manipulate her into saying what 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: you want her to say. She's going to respond in 116 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: whatever way she responds. However, how we show up can't 117 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: influence that, not control it. I personally feel like I 118 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: feel safer and more comfortable sharing my stuff my part 119 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: of the street when somebody goes ahead and shares their 120 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: part first, if they're the one confronting the situation. So 121 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: I don't feel attacked right here, you're not attacking anybody. 122 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: You're really just taking responsibility for your part, and you're saying, hey, like, 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: I want to know if we could share some ideas, 124 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: and if I could share some ideas. So you're not 125 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: shoving them down her throat, and you're not saying I 126 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: know how we can fix this. You're opening up a 127 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: space to say, Hey, would it be cool if I 128 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: share some of this. That's not a know at all, 129 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: that's I'm better than you, it's a if you're open, 130 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: I'd like to share something I learned. Also, I like 131 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: I talk about this a lot. I feel like I 132 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: keep saying as also, But I always like to remind 133 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: people when they are preparing to have conversations like this 134 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: that are hard or involve any kind of conflict, it's 135 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: okay to name that it's hard and it's awkward. In 136 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the moment, you can say, hey, I don't know how 137 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: this is gonna sound, so I really would love to 138 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: hear what you hear, so I make sure that what 139 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: I am saying isn't coming out the wrong way. Or Hey, 140 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: I'm really nervous to bring this up because I care 141 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: about you and I want this conversation to go well. 142 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: But I know I can't control that. It's okay to say, hey, 143 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: I really want to share something with you that might 144 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: not feel like a big deal to you, but it 145 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: is to me, and it's really hard for me to 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: do this. I think naming that something isn't easy. Kind 147 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: of let you just take the pressure off of acting 148 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: like you have it all together, and things then tend 149 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: to just flow more smoothly and also just more authentically. 150 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: So I don't have to come in there and be like, Okay, 151 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: I've prepared this speech. You can say, hey, I feel 152 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: like kind of awd. I want this to come out 153 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: the right way. I'm not sure if it's going to 154 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: so let me know what you hear, and that lets 155 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: it feel more like you and less like the scripted 156 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: thing that I or a therapist or a book told 157 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: you to do or say. You get to, you know, 158 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: sprinkle in your personality because after all, this is something 159 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: that you're sharing from you to your friend. So I 160 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: hope this helps, and I hope you can take this 161 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: and use it to talk to your friend and maybe 162 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: even use this kind of framework to talk to other 163 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: people in your life and to show up and have 164 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: those awkward, hard, weird conversations with other people that might 165 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: be important as well. So thank you for your question. 166 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: As always, anybody who has any questions you can send 167 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: this to Catherine at UNI Therapy Podcasts dot com. I 168 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: love getting those questions and I love getting your feedback 169 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: and all of the things. You can follow me at 170 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: Kat dot dot fata on Instagram and at UNI Therapy 171 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: Podcasts on Instagram, and stay tuned for the fourth part 172 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: of our four Horsemen series now Curveball, that could come 173 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: out Monday or could come out the following Monday. I'm 174 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: really trying to drag this series out, it feels like, 175 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: but really I'm just trying to sprinkle in some other 176 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: things to keep the podcast, you know, different and fun 177 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: and you never know what to expect, so you always 178 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: want to tune in, you know, And really I just 179 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: like making game time decisions as well, So stay tuned 180 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: for that. I will be back with you on Monday 181 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: with something and until then, I hope you are having 182 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: the day you need to have.