WEBVTT - #368 Wrongful Conviction: False Confessions - Birmingham Six

0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, Laura here.

0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Most of the stories we bring you focus on the

0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.720
<v Speaker 1>American criminal justice system, but this one takes place in

0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.919
<v Speaker 1>the UK. The case revolves around in IRA bombing in

0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy two and six innocent irishmen who were tortured

0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.000
<v Speaker 1>into falsely confessing to the crime. One of the people

0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.400
<v Speaker 1>working to prove their innocence was a reporter named Chris Mullen.

0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Through his reporting, he found the people he says were

0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.280
<v Speaker 1>the actual IRA members responsible for the bombing, but he

0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.239
<v Speaker 1>refused to give up their names to the police and

0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.640
<v Speaker 1>the matter went to court in March twenty twenty two.

0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.400
<v Speaker 1>The court decided that Mullen did not have to name

0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.040
<v Speaker 1>his source, and even though we want to know who

0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.280
<v Speaker 1>actually committed these crimes, this ruling protects one of the

0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.000
<v Speaker 1>key tenets of journalism. It was only with the promise

0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>of anonymity that Mullen was able to get the evidence

0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.400
<v Speaker 1>against the people he says really committed this crime. Keeping

0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.960
<v Speaker 1>those protections in place will help journalists to expose present

0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:16.559
<v Speaker 1>and future wrongful convictions. Welcome to wrongful conviction, False confessions.

0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm Laura, and I writer, and I'm Steve Drisen Steve.

0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.760
<v Speaker 1>When we went on our speaking tour last year for

0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Making a Murderer, one of my favorite places we visited

0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.680
<v Speaker 1>was Belfast in Northern Ireland.

0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was one of the highlights of our travels.

0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.280
<v Speaker 2>It was almost like coming home, coming to a place

0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.880
<v Speaker 2>which understood the work I've been doing for most of

0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.200
<v Speaker 2>my professional life.

0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was something about false confessions that really resonated

0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:45.759
<v Speaker 1>with that audience.

0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.640
<v Speaker 2>It's a lived experience and it goes back to the

0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.280
<v Speaker 2>way in which the Birmingham Six were treated by law enforcement.

0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, so here's the thing, right. The Birmingham Six

0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.640
<v Speaker 1>was a case that arose from the fact that two

0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.800
<v Speaker 1>pubs in Birmingham were bombed. It was one of the

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.760
<v Speaker 1>biggest mass murders to happen on British soil after World

0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.160
<v Speaker 1>War Two. I mean, this is like the Oklahoma City

0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.400
<v Speaker 1>bombing here in the United States. And the blame for

0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.359
<v Speaker 1>this crime was placed on these six Irish guys who

0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.600
<v Speaker 1>were living in England but who had deep roots in Belfast.

0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.320
<v Speaker 1>The injustice of what happened to these guys is like

0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:20.639
<v Speaker 1>almost nothing I've seen before.

0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a profound experience of police abuses and of torture

0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.280
<v Speaker 2>in the interrogation rooms.

0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Their story resonates for so many people in Northern Ireland

0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.880
<v Speaker 1>because the whole place has this incredible history of conflict

0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and struggle against power. I actually think that history is

0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.519
<v Speaker 1>what brought so many people out last year to our talk.

0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:45.080
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to believe they came to see you and me,

0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.680
<v Speaker 1>but they were probably there to hear about injustice and

0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.280
<v Speaker 1>how to fight it. And that's a little bit better

0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:52.840
<v Speaker 1>of a reason.

0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:53.679
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.239
<v Speaker 1>Our story today begins in Birmingham, England. It's the second

0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.000
<v Speaker 1>largest city in the United Kingdom, with a population in

0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the millions, mostly English, but also hundreds of thousands of Irish.

0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Like any big city, Birmingham's got a thriving social scene.

0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.239
<v Speaker 1>In particular, on almost every corner there's a pub. It's

0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.800
<v Speaker 1>in two of those pubs that our story really begins,

0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.120
<v Speaker 1>two ordinary places where people go after work to get

0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.040
<v Speaker 1>a pint of beer. On November twenty first, nineteen seventy four,

0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.880
<v Speaker 1>two Birmingham pubs became together the scene of Britain's deadliest

0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.800
<v Speaker 1>mass murder in modern history. It all started at eight

0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.160
<v Speaker 1>eleven in the evening, an anonymous man with an Irish

0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.120
<v Speaker 1>accent placed a phone call to the Birmingham Post newspaper.

0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.120
<v Speaker 1>There's a bomb planted in the Rotunda, he said, and

0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.200
<v Speaker 1>there's a bomb in New Street. This, he added, is

0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:04.320
<v Speaker 1>double X. Then silence he'd hung up. The Rotunda was

0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.160
<v Speaker 1>a high rise office building in downtown Birmingham with a

0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.680
<v Speaker 1>pub on its first floor called the Mulberry Bush. New Street.

0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Around the corner was where the city tax office was.

0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.120
<v Speaker 1>There was a pub on that building's first floor too,

0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.119
<v Speaker 1>called the Tavern in the Town. And then only six

0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:25.680
<v Speaker 1>minutes after that anonymous phone call, it happened two huge explosions.

0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.520
<v Speaker 1>The first was at the Mulberry Bush at eight seventeen pm.

0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.440
<v Speaker 1>A homemade bomb had been left in a leather bag

0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.359
<v Speaker 1>somewhere near the back door. When the bomb exploded, the

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.919
<v Speaker 1>pub was packed with people and the damage was horrific.

0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.680
<v Speaker 1>The ceiling collapsed, fire engulfed the place. People were crushed

0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and burned to death. Others were impaled by falling beams.

0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.800
<v Speaker 1>First responders arrived and began working desperately to rescue survivors.

0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.920
<v Speaker 1>At the same time, police were frantically trying to evacuate

0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.479
<v Speaker 1>the Tavern in the town, but they couldn't clear it

0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.280
<v Speaker 1>fast enough. At eight twenty seven pm, a second homemade

0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.240
<v Speaker 1>bomb exploded there again, the packed pub was destroyed. That

0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.719
<v Speaker 1>explosion was so powerful that people were blown through the

0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.799
<v Speaker 1>brick walls between the two pubs. Twenty one people died

0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.080
<v Speaker 1>and one hundred and eighty two were injured. It was

0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a coordinated attack that left Britain reeling. So why would

0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:28.880
<v Speaker 1>anyone bomb pubs in Birmingham? The answer is politics and history.

0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Here's our friend, doctor Hannah Quirk. She's a professor at

0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.320
<v Speaker 1>King's College, London who studies wrongful convictions and like a

0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.919
<v Speaker 1>lot of folks in the United Kingdom, in Ireland, she

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.920
<v Speaker 1>had a front row seat to that history. When she's

0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.599
<v Speaker 1>talking to people who are new to this part of

0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the world, Hannah likes to start here.

0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.919
<v Speaker 4>So there's obviously the famous U two song about Bloody Sunday.

0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.880
<v Speaker 1>That song's more than a pop anthem. It tells the

0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.520
<v Speaker 1>story of the long running and sometimes violent conflict between

0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Ireland and Britain. And here's that story in a nutshell.

0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.000
<v Speaker 4>There's a little implicated history in Ireland, hundreds of years

0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.640
<v Speaker 4>of history, but in nineteen twenty two there'd been a

0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.680
<v Speaker 4>civil war and the majority of Ireland was given independence

0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.359
<v Speaker 4>from Great Britain and formed the Irish Free State, but

0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.640
<v Speaker 4>a deal was done to say that the six counties

0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.360
<v Speaker 4>of Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom.

0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Not everyone was happy with this deal, though. People became

0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.160
<v Speaker 1>intensely divided about whether Northern Ireland should be part of

0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.359
<v Speaker 1>the United Kingdom or join the Republic of Ireland, and

0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.240
<v Speaker 1>those divisions often fell along religious lines.

0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.880
<v Speaker 4>Most Catholics were nationalists or Republicans. They wanted to be

0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.000
<v Speaker 4>a United Ireland so the island of Ireland would be

0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:45.400
<v Speaker 4>one country, and most Protestants were Unionists or Loyalists. They

0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.279
<v Speaker 4>wanted to remain part of Great Britain and be governed

0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:48.840
<v Speaker 4>from London.

0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Tensions simmered for years, and eventually anti Catholic sentiment started boiling,

0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:56.760
<v Speaker 1>especially in Northern Ireland.

0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.720
<v Speaker 4>Catholics were very discriminated against. They had for fewer job

0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.360
<v Speaker 4>of unities. The housing was worse, so they were very overcrowded.

0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.240
<v Speaker 4>They couldn't sit on juries for the most part because

0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.040
<v Speaker 4>they didn't own property. Schools were divided on religious lines

0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.560
<v Speaker 4>as well, so the civil rights movement grew in the

0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.360
<v Speaker 4>United States and the Catholic population in Northern Ireland gradually

0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.000
<v Speaker 4>began to protest about discrimination that they were facing. Two

0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.920
<v Speaker 4>British troops had already gone into Northern Ireland to try

0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.080
<v Speaker 4>and keep the peace, and then Bloody Sunday in nineteen

0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.640
<v Speaker 4>seventy two British paratroopers opened fire on the protesters and

0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.920
<v Speaker 4>killed thirteen people and injured fifteen of them.

0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.960
<v Speaker 1>After Bloody Sunday, the violence really escalated on both sides.

0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.360
<v Speaker 1>People who wanted to end British rule in Northern Ireland

0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.320
<v Speaker 1>armed themselves and became active in a group called the

0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Irish Republican Army or the IRA.

0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.240
<v Speaker 4>That song people always said it was the best recruitment

0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.320
<v Speaker 4>thing the IRA could ever have had. Bloody Sunday I

0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.800
<v Speaker 4>think was a real tipping point. It got so much attention,

0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.679
<v Speaker 4>not only in Northern Ireland but in England as well.

0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.880
<v Speaker 4>These images of the army shooting unarmed protesters.

0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.600
<v Speaker 1>The IRA they thought of themselves as freedom fighters and

0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.960
<v Speaker 1>they used violence to make their point, even planting homemade

0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:10.480
<v Speaker 1>bombs all across Britain. The IRA targeted everything from government

0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.720
<v Speaker 1>tax offices to restaurants and pubs. By nineteen seventy four,

0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.720
<v Speaker 1>two years after Bloody Sunday. Britain was experiencing an average

0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.840
<v Speaker 1>of one attack every three days, and British authorities were

0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.520
<v Speaker 1>regularly retaliating. The conflict was pretty close to a war,

0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.040
<v Speaker 1>and it became known as the Troubles.

0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.600
<v Speaker 4>I mean we called it the Troubles. When I was

0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.360
<v Speaker 4>growing up, that was all I heard on the news

0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.679
<v Speaker 4>was the Troubles. And then the first time I went

0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.440
<v Speaker 4>to Belfast, I realized no, actually this was this was

0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.440
<v Speaker 4>like a war. They were appalling levels of casualties in

0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.160
<v Speaker 4>those days as well, before the internet, you'd get newsflashes

0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.040
<v Speaker 4>on the television, so the screen would go black and

0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.720
<v Speaker 4>they'd say we interrupt this program, and it would be

0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.079
<v Speaker 4>a bomb had gone off, or you know, some kind

0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.360
<v Speaker 4>of serious situation had taken place. For years, there's been

0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.320
<v Speaker 4>no trush comes on public transport in London, just to

0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.640
<v Speaker 4>stop people being able to hide bomb. I was probably

0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.320
<v Speaker 4>about eight or nine and my mom had taken me

0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.520
<v Speaker 4>and all my cousins and my little brother to buy

0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.840
<v Speaker 4>school uniforms and there was this announcement over the tannoy

0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.640
<v Speaker 4>please evacuate the store, and the alarms going off. We

0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.280
<v Speaker 4>just thought it was a brilliant adventure. Because we were

0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.960
<v Speaker 4>a bit too little to realize it could be quite dangerous,

0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.280
<v Speaker 4>and my poor mum was just trying to grab about

0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.440
<v Speaker 4>eight children and get us out of the store, but

0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.160
<v Speaker 4>it was all glass of front, so she didn't know

0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.160
<v Speaker 4>which way to take us and which was more dangerous.

0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.120
<v Speaker 4>So we just always laughed about how we all had

0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.320
<v Speaker 4>nail marks in our arms from where she was digging

0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.520
<v Speaker 4>her fingers in and dragging us out by the hair.

0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.720
<v Speaker 4>And it seemed like a bit of an adventure at

0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.520
<v Speaker 4>the time, but that kind of stuff was quite normal.

0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Here's just how normal these bombings had become. The IRA

0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.040
<v Speaker 1>had rules, and under its rules, IRA members who bombed

0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.520
<v Speaker 1>a civilian target had to call British police and warned

0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.920
<v Speaker 1>them thirty minutes before the bomb went off. The idea

0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.520
<v Speaker 1>was to give enough time for police to evacuate as

0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.679
<v Speaker 1>many people as possible without sacrificing the bombs pltical point,

0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.280
<v Speaker 1>but the British police needed a way to make sure

0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.640
<v Speaker 1>these anonymous phone calls were authentic not hoaxes. So the

0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.360
<v Speaker 1>IRA and the police agreed on a codeword known only

0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.440
<v Speaker 1>to them. If the caller used the codeword, you could

0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.520
<v Speaker 1>be sure the bomb threat was real, and that codeword

0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.880
<v Speaker 1>was double X. On the day the bombs went off,

0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.439
<v Speaker 1>tensions between the IRA and the British were sky high.

0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.320
<v Speaker 1>A week before, an IRA member named James McDade was

0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.200
<v Speaker 1>killed in Britain when a bomb he was placing went

0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.840
<v Speaker 1>off prematurely. IRA sympathizers in Britain were planning a hero's

0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.760
<v Speaker 1>funeral with military processions and honor guards, but the British

0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.440
<v Speaker 1>authorities quickly passed laws and making those plans illegal instead.

0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.959
<v Speaker 1>On November twenty first, mcdade's body was flown from Birmingham

0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.960
<v Speaker 1>to Belfast for burial. Only hours after the plane carrying

0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:56.560
<v Speaker 1>his body took off, the bombs went off too. Between

0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.360
<v Speaker 1>the timing of the bombings and the use of the

0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.480
<v Speaker 1>double X codeword, it didn't take long for the police

0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.600
<v Speaker 1>and the public to conclude that the IRA was responsible. Now,

0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.680
<v Speaker 1>it's true the anonymous caller hadn't given the usual thirty

0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.520
<v Speaker 1>minutes advanced warning, but that fact got ignored as a

0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.880
<v Speaker 1>wave of anti Irish anger swept over Britain. The IRA

0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.440
<v Speaker 1>issued a denial, but no one listened. The British public

0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.240
<v Speaker 1>was terrified and the British authorities were enraged, there was

0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>a thirst for justice and revenge. Within hours of the bombings,

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.200
<v Speaker 1>police got a tip five Irish men had been seen

0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.559
<v Speaker 1>boarding a train that left Birmingham right before the explosion

0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.720
<v Speaker 1>at the Mulberry Bush. Four of them had tickets continuing

0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.600
<v Speaker 1>on to Belfast in Northern Ireland. Their names were Jerry Hunter,

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Dick Mackilkenny, John Walker, Billy Power and Patti Hill. They

0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.360
<v Speaker 1>were what the Irish call working class lads who didn't

0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.160
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of extra money. All five men were Catholic,

0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.360
<v Speaker 1>all were married, and most of them had kids. None

0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 1>of them was affiliated with the IRA. They were headed

0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.760
<v Speaker 1>to Belfast to attend James mcdade's funeral, but more out

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.560
<v Speaker 1>of community obligation than for political reasons. For his part,

0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.800
<v Speaker 1>Patty Hill borrowed his train fare from a nun. He

0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.320
<v Speaker 1>promised to pay her back by doing some painting work

0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.480
<v Speaker 1>when he returned, but that debt would soon become the

0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 1>least of his problems.

0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.760
<v Speaker 5>This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company,

0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 5>and Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.360
<v Speaker 5>law firm. The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 5>services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals

0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 5>most in need, and recently they announced that working to

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 5>reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 5>of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.920
<v Speaker 5>unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.000
<v Speaker 5>the most vulnerable memory of our society and in support

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.680
<v Speaker 5>of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 5>justice area.

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 1>For the first few hours, the train ride was uneventful,

0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.920
<v Speaker 1>but when the train pulled up to Morecambe's station on

0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 1>the evening of November twenty first, the police were waiting

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 1>a group of irishmen leaving Birmingham just as the bombs

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.680
<v Speaker 1>went off, seemed suspicious. All five were arrested and brought

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.319
<v Speaker 1>to a nearby police department. That's where a forensic scientist

0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>tested their hands for traces of nitroglycerin, a bomb ingredient.

0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.960
<v Speaker 1>The hands of two men tested positive, the scientists said,

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Billy Power and Patty Hill. That was enough for the police.

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.439
<v Speaker 1>Not just justice, but revenge was suddenly possible. Within a day,

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.520
<v Speaker 1>police arrested a sixth Irishman, Hugh Callahan, who had been

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 1>with the other five before they boarded the train, and

0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.959
<v Speaker 1>the interrogations endured by these six men, the Birmingham Six,

0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 1>were horrific. It started at the Morcambe Police Department with

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>John Walker. A group of police took John into a

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 1>back room where he was beaten, kicked, and burned with

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.200
<v Speaker 1>a cigarette while other officers held his arms back. The

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.960
<v Speaker 1>other men heard John screaming, and then their turns came too.

0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.800
<v Speaker 1>For hours, they were all bloodied and beaten from head

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 1>to toe. One of them, Billy Power, was kicked over

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and over on his head, legs, and stomach. He was

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 1>dragged by his hair and in one of the most

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 1>sadistic moments of this interrogation, police stretched his scrotum.

0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 2>During these interrogations, at least some of these guys were

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.280
<v Speaker 2>shown a letter, a letter that said that the torture

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 2>they were experiencing was state sanctioned. It was a letter

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 2>on government letterhead that basically told the police officers, you

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 2>can do whatever you need to do in order to

0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>get a confession from these men. To these guys, message

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 2>was this pain, this torture is going to continue unless

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 2>you confess.

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 1>By twelve fifty five pm the next day, November twenty second,

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Billy had had enough he signed a written confession prepared

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 1>by police, admitting guilt in the Birmingham pub bombings. A

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.400
<v Speaker 1>few hours later, the men were transferred to the custody

0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>of another police unit, the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad,

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>where the torture continued. Beatings, burnings, stress positions, even mock executions.

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Patty Hill remembers having a pistol shoved into his mouth

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>so brutally that it broke several of his teeth. With

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 1>a cold metal barrel in Patty's mouth, his interrogators slowly

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 1>counted to three and pulled the trigger three times. They

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 1>did this each time Patty expected to die, only to

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 1>discover that the chamber didn't contain a bullet. The thing

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 1>about torture is that it works, at least if your

0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 1>only goal is to find a scapegoat. A November twenty third,

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Hugh Callahan, Dick Mcelekenny, and John Walker signed false confessions.

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 1>Like Billy, they claimed that they were IRA members and

0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 1>that they'd planted both pub bombs. Somehow, Patty Hill and

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Hunter were holdouts. They refused to sign confessions despite

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 1>the torture. Police would later claim that Patty and Jerry

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 1>verbally confessed, which Patty denies. The four written confessions were

0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>short and virtually detail free. In fact, one of the

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 1>only details included was wrong. The confessions claimed that the

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.240
<v Speaker 1>bombs were left at the pubs in white plastic bags,

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 1>but forensic analysis showed the bags had been leather. It

0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't matter. Four of the Birmingham six had confessed, and

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>all of them had been beaten within an inch of

0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 1>their lives. Revenge, it seemed, had been achieved.

0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 2>The last thing that you want interrogators to do when

0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>they go into an interrogation room is to be guided

0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 2>by a sense of vengeance, because what's going to happen

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.520
<v Speaker 2>and is the interrogator is going to do everything in

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 2>his power to quench that thirst for revenge, and the

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 2>interrogation no longer becomes about the truth.

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 1>After the confessions, the six were charged with murder and

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.400
<v Speaker 1>transferred to Winston Green Prison, where guards continued the beatings.

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.639
<v Speaker 1>When the Birmingham Six were finally brought to court a

0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.600
<v Speaker 1>week after the bombings, they'd been brutalized from head to foot.

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Patty Hill's wife was in the courtroom with their two

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 1>year old son. When the little boy saw his dad's injuries.

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.159
<v Speaker 1>He was so traumatized that he needed medical attention. But

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.159
<v Speaker 1>authorities told the judge they had done nothing wrong. The

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.359
<v Speaker 1>men had been attacked, they said, by other inmates.

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 2>We've seen excuses like that over and over again, even

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in the United States. When somebody is battered, the police

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.960
<v Speaker 2>changed the narrative from the beginning. They either blame it

0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 2>on somebody falling down the stairs, or they blame it

0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.040
<v Speaker 2>on other inmates. But when these men appeared in court

0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.680
<v Speaker 2>for the first time, everybody knew what had happened to them.

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 2>It was clear that they had been through an ordeal.

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>That ordeal was far from over. Based on the confessions

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.919
<v Speaker 1>and the nitroglycerin evidence, the Birmingham Six stood trial on

0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.000
<v Speaker 1>June ninth, nineteen seventy five. A defense expert testified that

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 1>the explosives testing had been faulty, and defense witnesses pointed

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.639
<v Speaker 1>out that no explosives had been found at any of

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 1>the men's homes, but in short order that Birmingham Six

0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:34.200
<v Speaker 1>were convicted. Each man was sentenced to twenty one life sentences,

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 1>one for every person who died, and the people of Britain,

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.119
<v Speaker 1>all of whom thought it could have been them inside

0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 1>those pubs. They believed that justice had been done from

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 1>behind bars. The Birmingham Six fought their convictions like furies

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and insisted the authorities acknowledged they'd been tortured, but for

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>a while it looked like the entire system was lined

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 1>up against them. Eventually, fourteen prison officers were charged with

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 1>assaulting the six, but despite plenty of evidence, those officers

0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 1>were all acquitted at trial. The six also tried to

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 1>soothe their torturers, but a judge dismissed their lawsuit in

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.439
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty and he did it for reasons that you

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.880
<v Speaker 1>have to hear to believe. Just think what it would

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.280
<v Speaker 1>mean for Britain's legal system. The judge explained, if these

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 1>men were allowed to prove they'd been tortured, it would

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.679
<v Speaker 1>mean that the police were guilty of perjury, that they

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 1>were guilty of violence and threats, and that the convictions

0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.840
<v Speaker 1>were erroneous. That was such an appalling vista. He declared

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>that every sensible person would say, it cannot be right

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.600
<v Speaker 1>that this lawsuit should go any further.

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, the appalling vista here is this paternalistic attitude

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.159
<v Speaker 2>of this judge that the public can't handle the truth

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 2>he's saying that if this torture were allowed to be

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>seen by them, if this injustice were allowed to be acknowledged,

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the entire system would crumble. The irony is that by

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:09.199
<v Speaker 2>suppressing the truth, by putting these allegations in evidence of

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>torture in the closet, he is breaking the very system

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.800
<v Speaker 2>he claims to want to protect. Where are these men

0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 2>supposed to get justice if not in a court of law.

0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.800
<v Speaker 1>But while the court system closed its eyes to this injustice,

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.840
<v Speaker 1>the world didn't. Journalist Chris Mullen, who would go on

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to become a member of Parliament, investigated the bombings with

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.200
<v Speaker 1>fresh eyes. In nineteen eighty five, he retained two scientists

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.080
<v Speaker 1>who debunked the test that supposedly had found nitroglycerin on

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Patty and Billy's hands. A police officer also publicly confirmed

0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that the Birmingham Six had been beaten by their interrogators.

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.719
<v Speaker 1>The next year, Chris Mullen published a book about the

0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 1>case called Error of Judgment. In the book, Mullen described

0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.680
<v Speaker 1>meeting IRA members who admitted they were involved in the bombings,

0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:06.399
<v Speaker 1>although he didn't disclose their names, and Mullen explained something

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>that had been a mystery for years why the double

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>X caller hadn't given the full thirty minutes warning before

0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the first explosion. Turns out the bombers meant to give

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.879
<v Speaker 1>police thirty minutes, but the telephone booth they'd planned to

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>use had been damaged by vandals. By the time they

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.840
<v Speaker 1>found another phone, only six minutes were left. The warning

0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 1>system wasn't as fool proof as they thought. That was

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 1>how these bombings became one of the deadliest mass murders

0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 1>in modern British history. In nineteen eighty seven, advocates, including

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 1>renowned civil rights lawyer Gareth Pearce, convinced a court to

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 1>re examine the convictions of the Birmingham Six. At the hearing,

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.240
<v Speaker 1>police officers testified about why their colleagues torture the six men.

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Evidence was also introduced about a handwritten chart that had

0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 1>been found in the police station. The interrogators apparently used

0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.679
<v Speaker 1>this chart to line up the facts in the different

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:16.359
<v Speaker 1>men's statements and make sure they matched. Of course, those

0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:18.159
<v Speaker 1>facts were actually lies.

0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.880
<v Speaker 2>The discovery of this chart basically proved what the men

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 2>had been saying all along, that we didn't confess to

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:30.960
<v Speaker 2>these crimes. These were stories that were scripted by the police,

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and we were tortured into saying what they wanted us

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 2>to say.

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 1>But despite this new evidence, relief was denied and the

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>case stalled for four years until a second hearing was granted.

0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 1>There new evidence was introduced that further undermined the nitroglycerin

0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.399
<v Speaker 1>testing on Patty and Billy's hands. But what finally tipped

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the balance, as Gareth Pierce later wrote, it was the

0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 1>simplest of stupidities. Previously, police had testified that the men

0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 1>confessed freely and that after they confessed, their stories never changed.

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.359
<v Speaker 1>But Pierce had found the notebooks on which the men's

0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:12.080
<v Speaker 1>confessions had been written. Sure enough, as the police wrote, edited,

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and rewrote the false confessions on notebook pages, their pens

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:21.360
<v Speaker 1>left indentations on the pages. Underneath those indentations revealed how

0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the stories had evolved and been altered, and how the

0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:26.560
<v Speaker 1>police's testimony had been false.

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>These indentations were like track changes, you know. They were

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 2>imprints on paper that were left because the police officers

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 2>were writing and rewriting so furiously that they left a

0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 2>mark on the paper. Evidence that the confessions were scripted

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.959
<v Speaker 2>is evidence of police contamination. That the story didn't come

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:54.080
<v Speaker 2>from the defendants. It came from police officers.

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.400
<v Speaker 1>All six convictions were declared unsafe that's a British term,

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 1>and thrown out, and on November twenty first, nineteen ninety one,

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.400
<v Speaker 1>the Birmingham Six walked out of prison after sixteen years

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.159
<v Speaker 1>behind bars.

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:10.680
<v Speaker 4>Still makes the hairs on the back of your neck

0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 4>stands on end, doesn't it. I remember it really vividly,

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.960
<v Speaker 4>that image of them walking out of the court onto

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 4>the street, and builders hanging off scaffolding from the buildings

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 4>across the road, people packed outside, these hundreds and hundreds

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 4>of people, TV crews from around the world, and then

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.159
<v Speaker 4>that amazing image of them all coming out, linked hands

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 4>holding them above their heads, with Chris Mullin, the journalist

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.199
<v Speaker 4>who had campaigned for them, and then Paddy grabbing the

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 4>microphone and shouting how he'd spent sixteen years in prison

0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 4>for a crime he didn't commit. It was that really

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:49.400
<v Speaker 4>raw emotion that was just so shocking. The police tore

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:52.680
<v Speaker 4>us from the start that they knew we hadn't done it.

0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.840
<v Speaker 4>They told us they didn't care who'd done it. They

0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 4>told us that we.

0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Were selected and that they were gone.

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 4>A frayrom us they came the people in their happy

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:10.560
<v Speaker 4>let's w a tullify justice. I don't think them people

0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.480
<v Speaker 4>enough got the intelligence, no, the honors in a.

0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Spell award, never mind dispensive.

0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.080
<v Speaker 1>The six won their freedom years ago, but even today

0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:25.679
<v Speaker 1>real justice still seems illusory. There's never been a formal

0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:30.240
<v Speaker 1>declaration of innocence or exoneration. Even the court decision throwing

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 1>out their convictions still made veiled references to their possible guilt.

0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:37.560
<v Speaker 1>The closest the Birmingham Six has come to justice was

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 1>when they won a defamation lawsuit after a member of

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Parliament called them guilty. The British government has compensated them financially,

0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:48.560
<v Speaker 1>but the amount doesn't come close to repaying them for

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.320
<v Speaker 1>days of torture and sixteen lost years.

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:55.320
<v Speaker 4>A psychiatrist assessed the six when they put in their

0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:58.640
<v Speaker 4>claim for compensation, and he said they had post traumatic

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 4>stress to sodia that was on the level of somebody

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.080
<v Speaker 4>who had been in a war zone. I think what

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.360
<v Speaker 4>they'd been through was exceptional given the violence that they'd suffered,

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:09.040
<v Speaker 4>as well as the miscarriage of justice. I mean, they

0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 4>had been tortured, they'd had to fight and fight all

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 4>the time in prison for their own safety and fight

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:18.680
<v Speaker 4>to prove their innocence. If you've had that level of

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.199
<v Speaker 4>adrenaline running through your system for sixteen years, that doesn't

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:24.680
<v Speaker 4>just disappear when you walk out of court.

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.120
<v Speaker 1>And as for the bombing, it's never been definitively solved.

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:31.119
<v Speaker 1>In fact, over the past few years, there's been an

0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:35.080
<v Speaker 1>ongoing inquest in Birmingham to reinvestigate what happened that day.

0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:38.560
<v Speaker 1>For years, Chris Mullen refused to name the men he

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:43.680
<v Speaker 1>said had accepted responsibility, citing his journalistic obligation to protect sources.

0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Right before the inquest, Mullen finally published an article identifying

0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:52.880
<v Speaker 1>two former IRA members who are now dead. For its part,

0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the IRA has never officially admitted responsibility for the bombings.

0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:00.359
<v Speaker 1>At the inquest, one former IRA member and if i'd

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 1>only as witness O, named the same perpetrators that Mullin

0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 1>had named, plus two others. Another witness testified that the

0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 1>high body count was accidental and described the bombings as

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 1>an IRA operation that went badly wrong in some ways,

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.200
<v Speaker 1>though the system has tried to learn from its mistakes.

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:20.920
<v Speaker 4>If you were writing a history of the criminal justice

0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 4>system in this country, the Birmingham Six is a real

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.959
<v Speaker 4>tipping point. It wasn't about the politics of Northern Ireland.

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:30.920
<v Speaker 4>It was about the criminal justice system has done something

0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 4>terribly wrong. So there was a real sense at the

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:36.840
<v Speaker 4>time that the system was in crisis. People couldn't have

0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 4>confidence in the system because there were so many wrongful

0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 4>convictions happening. And on the day the Birmingham Six were

0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:46.160
<v Speaker 4>released from prison, the Home Secretary stood up in Parliament

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 4>and said, I'm ordering a commission to look into the

0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:50.000
<v Speaker 4>criminal justice system.

0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Based on that commission's recommendation, the UK created the Criminal

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Cases Review Commission in nineteen ninety seven.

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 4>The Criminal Cases Review Commission is independent, but it's funded

0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:04.119
<v Speaker 4>by the government to investigate cases like this and to

0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 4>see where mischaracters of justice have happened. The CCRC isn't perfect,

0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:12.359
<v Speaker 4>but it's a remarkable organization. It's one of the few

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.119
<v Speaker 4>places in the world where, to be honest, the government

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.399
<v Speaker 4>has been big enough to say things do go wrong

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.360
<v Speaker 4>and we need to create a way of putting this right,

0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:23.120
<v Speaker 4>and every country should have one.

0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:26.200
<v Speaker 1>In addition, the UK has adopted reforms around the way

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 1>suspects are interrogated outlying not only physical torture, but also

0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>other tools of coercion, like lying to suspects. These are

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:37.120
<v Speaker 1>reforms that we should be enacting in the United States.

0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:41.200
<v Speaker 2>I always say that the UK is thirty five years

0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:43.719
<v Speaker 2>ahead of where we are in the United States. As

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 2>far as interrogation reforms, they don't allow any confessions to

0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 2>be admitted into evidence that are obtained by oppression, and

0:28:53.880 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 2>oppression doesn't mean just physical torture. It also means psychological

0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:04.880
<v Speaker 2>torture and the use of tactics which are likely to

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:10.920
<v Speaker 2>render a confession unreliable. All of these reforms are aimed

0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:15.719
<v Speaker 2>at getting the truth and not just getting a confession.

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 1>The British legal system wasn't the only one to initiate

0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 1>meaningful change. Patti Hill used the compensation he got for

0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 1>his wrongful conviction to start a nonprofit, the Miscarriages of

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Justice Organization. Its mission is to help people recently released

0:29:30.400 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>from prison to get back on their feet and to

0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.120
<v Speaker 1>help them handle the pain and anger they'll probably carry

0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>for a long time.

0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>There's this incredible caring side to Patty. He talks about

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>when people get out of prison, many of them seek

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:48.760
<v Speaker 2>him out, and at least pre COVID he would welcome

0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>them in his home, and those are the people that

0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 2>give him the greatest comfort in life because they shared

0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 2>at least some of the experience that he had when

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:00.719
<v Speaker 2>he was in prison.

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:03.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, when I went back to Scotland last year,

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>I went to visit Patti Hill.

0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sad that I missed that opportunity.

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.800
<v Speaker 1>He's an incredible man, but also he is angry still

0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and committed through that anger to improving the system. All

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:21.640
<v Speaker 1>he wants to do is remember what happened to him

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 1>and then use that memory as fuel to change the system.

0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 1>For Patty, all of those physical wounds have long since healed,

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:35.400
<v Speaker 1>but the emotional wounds and the drive that he has

0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 1>to make sure this doesn't happen again, those are there forever.

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 2>We see that time and again with people who are exonerated.

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.640
<v Speaker 2>They want to tell their story. They want the world

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:50.480
<v Speaker 2>to know what happened to them so it doesn't happen again.

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 3>Hello, Hello, Patty, Hello Laura. How are you doing? Patty?

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh good? So give us a year ago when I

0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 1>saw you in Glasgow at the Mojo offices. Yeah, when

0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 1>you work with the families of other people who are

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:11.520
<v Speaker 1>in prison, is there anything to say to them to

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 1>give them hope.

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:16.320
<v Speaker 3>I tell their families they're gonna have good moods. They're

0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 3>gonna have bad moods, you know, And I tell them move,

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.760
<v Speaker 3>You're not on your own. We can mess in the

0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 3>mood in any way. That's the main thing, you know.

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 3>You often hear that old cliche time is a great healer?

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Is it true?

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 3>Believe me, Time does not heal nothing. The only thing

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:38.240
<v Speaker 3>you can hope for is that every day, Please God,

0:31:38.320 --> 0:31:40.440
<v Speaker 3>you've learned down with a little bit better.

0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Do you have a support system people to help you

0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:46.000
<v Speaker 1>on those bad days.

0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:48.479
<v Speaker 3>When I meet up with some of the guys from

0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:51.240
<v Speaker 3>the geom and one of the pubs and well being

0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 3>be there for five six hours, that's when the barriers

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:55.520
<v Speaker 3>come down.

0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>You can be yourself, all yourself maybe exactly.

0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Yeah, good time.

0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a production of Lava for

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one Special

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:21.520
<v Speaker 1>thanks to our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wardis.

0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Our production team is headed by senior producer and Pope,

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>along with producers Joshi Hammer and Jess Shane. Our show

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:32.640
<v Speaker 1>is mixed by Genie Montalvo. John Colbert is our intrepid intern.

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Our music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 1>me on Instagram or Twitter at Laura and I Wrider,

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:39.960
<v Speaker 1>and you.

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Can follow me on Twitter at s Drizzen.

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:46.480
<v Speaker 1>For more information on the show, visit Wrongful Conviction podcast

0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Be sure to follow the show on Instagram

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:54.680
<v Speaker 1>at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and

0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at wrong Conviction