1 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Laura here. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Now. 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Most of the stories we bring you focus on the 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: American criminal justice system, but this one takes place in 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: the UK. The case revolves around in IRA bombing in 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two and six innocent irishmen who were tortured 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: into falsely confessing to the crime. One of the people 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: working to prove their innocence was a reporter named Chris Mullen. 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: Through his reporting, he found the people he says were 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: the actual IRA members responsible for the bombing, but he 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: refused to give up their names to the police and 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: the matter went to court in March twenty twenty two. 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: The court decided that Mullen did not have to name 14 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: his source, and even though we want to know who 15 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: actually committed these crimes, this ruling protects one of the 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: key tenets of journalism. It was only with the promise 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: of anonymity that Mullen was able to get the evidence 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: against the people he says really committed this crime. Keeping 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: those protections in place will help journalists to expose present 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: and future wrongful convictions. Welcome to wrongful conviction, False confessions. 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: I'm Laura, and I writer, and I'm Steve Drisen Steve. 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: When we went on our speaking tour last year for 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: Making a Murderer, one of my favorite places we visited 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: was Belfast in Northern Ireland. 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one of the highlights of our travels. 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: It was almost like coming home, coming to a place 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: which understood the work I've been doing for most of 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: my professional life. 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something about false confessions that really resonated 30 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: with that audience. 31 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: It's a lived experience and it goes back to the 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: way in which the Birmingham Six were treated by law enforcement. 33 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: Well, okay, so here's the thing, right. The Birmingham Six 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: was a case that arose from the fact that two 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: pubs in Birmingham were bombed. It was one of the 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: biggest mass murders to happen on British soil after World 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: War Two. I mean, this is like the Oklahoma City 38 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: bombing here in the United States. And the blame for 39 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: this crime was placed on these six Irish guys who 40 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: were living in England but who had deep roots in Belfast. 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: The injustice of what happened to these guys is like 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: almost nothing I've seen before. 43 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, a profound experience of police abuses and of torture 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: in the interrogation rooms. 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: Their story resonates for so many people in Northern Ireland 46 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: because the whole place has this incredible history of conflict 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: and struggle against power. I actually think that history is 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: what brought so many people out last year to our talk. 49 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 3: You know. 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: I'd like to believe they came to see you and me, 51 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: but they were probably there to hear about injustice and 52 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: how to fight it. And that's a little bit better 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: of a reason. 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 2: I think. 55 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: Our story today begins in Birmingham, England. It's the second 56 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: largest city in the United Kingdom, with a population in 57 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: the millions, mostly English, but also hundreds of thousands of Irish. 58 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: Like any big city, Birmingham's got a thriving social scene. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: In particular, on almost every corner there's a pub. It's 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: in two of those pubs that our story really begins, 61 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: two ordinary places where people go after work to get 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: a pint of beer. On November twenty first, nineteen seventy four, 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: two Birmingham pubs became together the scene of Britain's deadliest 64 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: mass murder in modern history. It all started at eight 65 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: eleven in the evening, an anonymous man with an Irish 66 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: accent placed a phone call to the Birmingham Post newspaper. 67 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: There's a bomb planted in the Rotunda, he said, and 68 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: there's a bomb in New Street. This, he added, is 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: double X. Then silence he'd hung up. The Rotunda was 70 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: a high rise office building in downtown Birmingham with a 71 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: pub on its first floor called the Mulberry Bush. New Street. 72 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: Around the corner was where the city tax office was. 73 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: There was a pub on that building's first floor too, 74 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 1: called the Tavern in the Town. And then only six 75 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: minutes after that anonymous phone call, it happened two huge explosions. 76 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: The first was at the Mulberry Bush at eight seventeen pm. 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: A homemade bomb had been left in a leather bag 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: somewhere near the back door. When the bomb exploded, the 79 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: pub was packed with people and the damage was horrific. 80 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: The ceiling collapsed, fire engulfed the place. People were crushed 81 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: and burned to death. Others were impaled by falling beams. 82 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: First responders arrived and began working desperately to rescue survivors. 83 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: At the same time, police were frantically trying to evacuate 84 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: the Tavern in the town, but they couldn't clear it 85 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: fast enough. At eight twenty seven pm, a second homemade 86 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: bomb exploded there again, the packed pub was destroyed. That 87 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: explosion was so powerful that people were blown through the 88 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 1: brick walls between the two pubs. Twenty one people died 89 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: and one hundred and eighty two were injured. It was 90 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: a coordinated attack that left Britain reeling. So why would 91 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: anyone bomb pubs in Birmingham? The answer is politics and history. 92 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: Here's our friend, doctor Hannah Quirk. She's a professor at 93 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: King's College, London who studies wrongful convictions and like a 94 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: lot of folks in the United Kingdom, in Ireland, she 95 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: had a front row seat to that history. When she's 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: talking to people who are new to this part of 97 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: the world, Hannah likes to start here. 98 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 4: So there's obviously the famous U two song about Bloody Sunday. 99 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: That song's more than a pop anthem. It tells the 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: story of the long running and sometimes violent conflict between 101 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: Ireland and Britain. And here's that story in a nutshell. 102 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 4: There's a little implicated history in Ireland, hundreds of years 103 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 4: of history, but in nineteen twenty two there'd been a 104 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 4: civil war and the majority of Ireland was given independence 105 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 4: from Great Britain and formed the Irish Free State, but 106 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 4: a deal was done to say that the six counties 107 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 4: of Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom. 108 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 1: Not everyone was happy with this deal, though. People became 109 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: intensely divided about whether Northern Ireland should be part of 110 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom or join the Republic of Ireland, and 111 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: those divisions often fell along religious lines. 112 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 4: Most Catholics were nationalists or Republicans. They wanted to be 113 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 4: a United Ireland so the island of Ireland would be 114 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: one country, and most Protestants were Unionists or Loyalists. They 115 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 4: wanted to remain part of Great Britain and be governed 116 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 4: from London. 117 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: Tensions simmered for years, and eventually anti Catholic sentiment started boiling, 118 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: especially in Northern Ireland. 119 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 4: Catholics were very discriminated against. They had for fewer job 120 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 4: of unities. The housing was worse, so they were very overcrowded. 121 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 4: They couldn't sit on juries for the most part because 122 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 4: they didn't own property. Schools were divided on religious lines 123 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 4: as well, so the civil rights movement grew in the 124 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: United States and the Catholic population in Northern Ireland gradually 125 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 4: began to protest about discrimination that they were facing. Two 126 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 4: British troops had already gone into Northern Ireland to try 127 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 4: and keep the peace, and then Bloody Sunday in nineteen 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 4: seventy two British paratroopers opened fire on the protesters and 129 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 4: killed thirteen people and injured fifteen of them. 130 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: After Bloody Sunday, the violence really escalated on both sides. 131 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: People who wanted to end British rule in Northern Ireland 132 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: armed themselves and became active in a group called the 133 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: Irish Republican Army or the IRA. 134 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: That song people always said it was the best recruitment 135 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 4: thing the IRA could ever have had. Bloody Sunday I 136 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: think was a real tipping point. It got so much attention, 137 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 4: not only in Northern Ireland but in England as well. 138 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 4: These images of the army shooting unarmed protesters. 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: The IRA they thought of themselves as freedom fighters and 140 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: they used violence to make their point, even planting homemade 141 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: bombs all across Britain. The IRA targeted everything from government 142 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: tax offices to restaurants and pubs. By nineteen seventy four, 143 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: two years after Bloody Sunday. Britain was experiencing an average 144 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: of one attack every three days, and British authorities were 145 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: regularly retaliating. The conflict was pretty close to a war, 146 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: and it became known as the Troubles. 147 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 4: I mean we called it the Troubles. When I was 148 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 4: growing up, that was all I heard on the news 149 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 4: was the Troubles. And then the first time I went 150 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 4: to Belfast, I realized no, actually this was this was 151 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 4: like a war. They were appalling levels of casualties in 152 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: those days as well, before the internet, you'd get newsflashes 153 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 4: on the television, so the screen would go black and 154 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 4: they'd say we interrupt this program, and it would be 155 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 4: a bomb had gone off, or you know, some kind 156 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 4: of serious situation had taken place. For years, there's been 157 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 4: no trush comes on public transport in London, just to 158 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 4: stop people being able to hide bomb. I was probably 159 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 4: about eight or nine and my mom had taken me 160 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 4: and all my cousins and my little brother to buy 161 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 4: school uniforms and there was this announcement over the tannoy 162 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 4: please evacuate the store, and the alarms going off. We 163 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 4: just thought it was a brilliant adventure. Because we were 164 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 4: a bit too little to realize it could be quite dangerous, 165 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 4: and my poor mum was just trying to grab about 166 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 4: eight children and get us out of the store, but 167 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 4: it was all glass of front, so she didn't know 168 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 4: which way to take us and which was more dangerous. 169 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 4: So we just always laughed about how we all had 170 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 4: nail marks in our arms from where she was digging 171 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 4: her fingers in and dragging us out by the hair. 172 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 4: And it seemed like a bit of an adventure at 173 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 4: the time, but that kind of stuff was quite normal. 174 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: Here's just how normal these bombings had become. The IRA 175 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: had rules, and under its rules, IRA members who bombed 176 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: a civilian target had to call British police and warned 177 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: them thirty minutes before the bomb went off. The idea 178 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: was to give enough time for police to evacuate as 179 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: many people as possible without sacrificing the bombs pltical point, 180 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: but the British police needed a way to make sure 181 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: these anonymous phone calls were authentic not hoaxes. So the 182 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: IRA and the police agreed on a codeword known only 183 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: to them. If the caller used the codeword, you could 184 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: be sure the bomb threat was real, and that codeword 185 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: was double X. On the day the bombs went off, 186 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: tensions between the IRA and the British were sky high. 187 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: A week before, an IRA member named James McDade was 188 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: killed in Britain when a bomb he was placing went 189 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: off prematurely. IRA sympathizers in Britain were planning a hero's 190 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: funeral with military processions and honor guards, but the British 191 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: authorities quickly passed laws and making those plans illegal instead. 192 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: On November twenty first, mcdade's body was flown from Birmingham 193 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: to Belfast for burial. Only hours after the plane carrying 194 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: his body took off, the bombs went off too. Between 195 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: the timing of the bombings and the use of the 196 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: double X codeword, it didn't take long for the police 197 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: and the public to conclude that the IRA was responsible. Now, 198 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: it's true the anonymous caller hadn't given the usual thirty 199 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: minutes advanced warning, but that fact got ignored as a 200 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: wave of anti Irish anger swept over Britain. The IRA 201 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: issued a denial, but no one listened. The British public 202 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: was terrified and the British authorities were enraged, there was 203 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: a thirst for justice and revenge. Within hours of the bombings, 204 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: police got a tip five Irish men had been seen 205 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: boarding a train that left Birmingham right before the explosion 206 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: at the Mulberry Bush. Four of them had tickets continuing 207 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: on to Belfast in Northern Ireland. Their names were Jerry Hunter, 208 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: Dick Mackilkenny, John Walker, Billy Power and Patti Hill. They 209 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: were what the Irish call working class lads who didn't 210 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: have a lot of extra money. All five men were Catholic, 211 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: all were married, and most of them had kids. None 212 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: of them was affiliated with the IRA. They were headed 213 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: to Belfast to attend James mcdade's funeral, but more out 214 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: of community obligation than for political reasons. For his part, 215 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: Patty Hill borrowed his train fare from a nun. He 216 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: promised to pay her back by doing some painting work 217 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: when he returned, but that debt would soon become the 218 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: least of his problems. 219 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 5: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company, 220 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 5: and Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international 221 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 5: law firm. The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal 222 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 5: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals 223 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 5: most in need, and recently they announced that working to 224 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 5: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar 225 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 5: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an 226 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 5: unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to 227 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 5: the most vulnerable memory of our society and in support 228 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 5: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal 229 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 5: justice area. 230 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: For the first few hours, the train ride was uneventful, 231 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: but when the train pulled up to Morecambe's station on 232 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: the evening of November twenty first, the police were waiting 233 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: a group of irishmen leaving Birmingham just as the bombs 234 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: went off, seemed suspicious. All five were arrested and brought 235 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: to a nearby police department. That's where a forensic scientist 236 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: tested their hands for traces of nitroglycerin, a bomb ingredient. 237 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: The hands of two men tested positive, the scientists said, 238 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: Billy Power and Patty Hill. That was enough for the police. 239 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: Not just justice, but revenge was suddenly possible. Within a day, 240 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: police arrested a sixth Irishman, Hugh Callahan, who had been 241 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: with the other five before they boarded the train, and 242 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: the interrogations endured by these six men, the Birmingham Six, 243 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: were horrific. It started at the Morcambe Police Department with 244 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: John Walker. A group of police took John into a 245 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: back room where he was beaten, kicked, and burned with 246 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: a cigarette while other officers held his arms back. The 247 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: other men heard John screaming, and then their turns came too. 248 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: For hours, they were all bloodied and beaten from head 249 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: to toe. One of them, Billy Power, was kicked over 250 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: and over on his head, legs, and stomach. He was 251 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: dragged by his hair and in one of the most 252 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: sadistic moments of this interrogation, police stretched his scrotum. 253 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: During these interrogations, at least some of these guys were 254 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: shown a letter, a letter that said that the torture 255 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: they were experiencing was state sanctioned. It was a letter 256 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: on government letterhead that basically told the police officers, you 257 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: can do whatever you need to do in order to 258 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: get a confession from these men. To these guys, message 259 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: was this pain, this torture is going to continue unless 260 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: you confess. 261 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: By twelve fifty five pm the next day, November twenty second, 262 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: Billy had had enough he signed a written confession prepared 263 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: by police, admitting guilt in the Birmingham pub bombings. A 264 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: few hours later, the men were transferred to the custody 265 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: of another police unit, the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad, 266 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: where the torture continued. Beatings, burnings, stress positions, even mock executions. 267 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: Patty Hill remembers having a pistol shoved into his mouth 268 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: so brutally that it broke several of his teeth. With 269 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: a cold metal barrel in Patty's mouth, his interrogators slowly 270 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: counted to three and pulled the trigger three times. They 271 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: did this each time Patty expected to die, only to 272 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: discover that the chamber didn't contain a bullet. The thing 273 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: about torture is that it works, at least if your 274 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: only goal is to find a scapegoat. A November twenty third, 275 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: Hugh Callahan, Dick Mcelekenny, and John Walker signed false confessions. 276 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: Like Billy, they claimed that they were IRA members and 277 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: that they'd planted both pub bombs. Somehow, Patty Hill and 278 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: Jerry Hunter were holdouts. They refused to sign confessions despite 279 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: the torture. Police would later claim that Patty and Jerry 280 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: verbally confessed, which Patty denies. The four written confessions were 281 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: short and virtually detail free. In fact, one of the 282 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: only details included was wrong. The confessions claimed that the 283 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: bombs were left at the pubs in white plastic bags, 284 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: but forensic analysis showed the bags had been leather. It 285 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: didn't matter. Four of the Birmingham six had confessed, and 286 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: all of them had been beaten within an inch of 287 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: their lives. Revenge, it seemed, had been achieved. 288 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: The last thing that you want interrogators to do when 289 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: they go into an interrogation room is to be guided 290 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: by a sense of vengeance, because what's going to happen 291 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: and is the interrogator is going to do everything in 292 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: his power to quench that thirst for revenge, and the 293 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: interrogation no longer becomes about the truth. 294 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: After the confessions, the six were charged with murder and 295 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: transferred to Winston Green Prison, where guards continued the beatings. 296 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: When the Birmingham Six were finally brought to court a 297 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: week after the bombings, they'd been brutalized from head to foot. 298 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: Patty Hill's wife was in the courtroom with their two 299 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: year old son. When the little boy saw his dad's injuries. 300 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: He was so traumatized that he needed medical attention. But 301 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: authorities told the judge they had done nothing wrong. The 302 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: men had been attacked, they said, by other inmates. 303 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: We've seen excuses like that over and over again, even 304 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: in the United States. When somebody is battered, the police 305 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 2: changed the narrative from the beginning. They either blame it 306 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: on somebody falling down the stairs, or they blame it 307 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: on other inmates. But when these men appeared in court 308 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: for the first time, everybody knew what had happened to them. 309 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: It was clear that they had been through an ordeal. 310 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: That ordeal was far from over. Based on the confessions 311 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: and the nitroglycerin evidence, the Birmingham Six stood trial on 312 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: June ninth, nineteen seventy five. A defense expert testified that 313 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: the explosives testing had been faulty, and defense witnesses pointed 314 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: out that no explosives had been found at any of 315 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: the men's homes, but in short order that Birmingham Six 316 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: were convicted. Each man was sentenced to twenty one life sentences, 317 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: one for every person who died, and the people of Britain, 318 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: all of whom thought it could have been them inside 319 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: those pubs. They believed that justice had been done from 320 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: behind bars. The Birmingham Six fought their convictions like furies 321 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: and insisted the authorities acknowledged they'd been tortured, but for 322 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: a while it looked like the entire system was lined 323 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: up against them. Eventually, fourteen prison officers were charged with 324 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: assaulting the six, but despite plenty of evidence, those officers 325 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: were all acquitted at trial. The six also tried to 326 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: soothe their torturers, but a judge dismissed their lawsuit in 327 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and he did it for reasons that you 328 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: have to hear to believe. Just think what it would 329 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: mean for Britain's legal system. The judge explained, if these 330 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: men were allowed to prove they'd been tortured, it would 331 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: mean that the police were guilty of perjury, that they 332 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: were guilty of violence and threats, and that the convictions 333 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: were erroneous. That was such an appalling vista. He declared 334 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: that every sensible person would say, it cannot be right 335 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: that this lawsuit should go any further. 336 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 2: You know, the appalling vista here is this paternalistic attitude 337 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 2: of this judge that the public can't handle the truth 338 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: he's saying that if this torture were allowed to be 339 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: seen by them, if this injustice were allowed to be acknowledged, 340 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: the entire system would crumble. The irony is that by 341 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: suppressing the truth, by putting these allegations in evidence of 342 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: torture in the closet, he is breaking the very system 343 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: he claims to want to protect. Where are these men 344 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: supposed to get justice if not in a court of law. 345 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: But while the court system closed its eyes to this injustice, 346 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: the world didn't. Journalist Chris Mullen, who would go on 347 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: to become a member of Parliament, investigated the bombings with 348 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: fresh eyes. In nineteen eighty five, he retained two scientists 349 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: who debunked the test that supposedly had found nitroglycerin on 350 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: Patty and Billy's hands. A police officer also publicly confirmed 351 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: that the Birmingham Six had been beaten by their interrogators. 352 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,719 Speaker 1: The next year, Chris Mullen published a book about the 353 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: case called Error of Judgment. In the book, Mullen described 354 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: meeting IRA members who admitted they were involved in the bombings, 355 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: although he didn't disclose their names, and Mullen explained something 356 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: that had been a mystery for years why the double 357 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: X caller hadn't given the full thirty minutes warning before 358 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: the first explosion. Turns out the bombers meant to give 359 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: police thirty minutes, but the telephone booth they'd planned to 360 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: use had been damaged by vandals. By the time they 361 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: found another phone, only six minutes were left. The warning 362 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: system wasn't as fool proof as they thought. That was 363 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: how these bombings became one of the deadliest mass murders 364 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: in modern British history. In nineteen eighty seven, advocates, including 365 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: renowned civil rights lawyer Gareth Pearce, convinced a court to 366 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: re examine the convictions of the Birmingham Six. At the hearing, 367 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: police officers testified about why their colleagues torture the six men. 368 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: Evidence was also introduced about a handwritten chart that had 369 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: been found in the police station. The interrogators apparently used 370 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: this chart to line up the facts in the different 371 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: men's statements and make sure they matched. Of course, those 372 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: facts were actually lies. 373 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 2: The discovery of this chart basically proved what the men 374 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: had been saying all along, that we didn't confess to 375 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: these crimes. These were stories that were scripted by the police, 376 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: and we were tortured into saying what they wanted us 377 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: to say. 378 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: But despite this new evidence, relief was denied and the 379 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: case stalled for four years until a second hearing was granted. 380 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: There new evidence was introduced that further undermined the nitroglycerin 381 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: testing on Patty and Billy's hands. But what finally tipped 382 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: the balance, as Gareth Pierce later wrote, it was the 383 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: simplest of stupidities. Previously, police had testified that the men 384 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: confessed freely and that after they confessed, their stories never changed. 385 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: But Pierce had found the notebooks on which the men's 386 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: confessions had been written. Sure enough, as the police wrote, edited, 387 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: and rewrote the false confessions on notebook pages, their pens 388 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: left indentations on the pages. Underneath those indentations revealed how 389 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: the stories had evolved and been altered, and how the 390 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: police's testimony had been false. 391 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: These indentations were like track changes, you know. They were 392 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: imprints on paper that were left because the police officers 393 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: were writing and rewriting so furiously that they left a 394 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: mark on the paper. Evidence that the confessions were scripted 395 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 2: is evidence of police contamination. That the story didn't come 396 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: from the defendants. It came from police officers. 397 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: All six convictions were declared unsafe that's a British term, 398 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: and thrown out, and on November twenty first, nineteen ninety one, 399 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: the Birmingham Six walked out of prison after sixteen years 400 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: behind bars. 401 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 4: Still makes the hairs on the back of your neck 402 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 4: stands on end, doesn't it. I remember it really vividly, 403 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 4: that image of them walking out of the court onto 404 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 4: the street, and builders hanging off scaffolding from the buildings 405 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 4: across the road, people packed outside, these hundreds and hundreds 406 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 4: of people, TV crews from around the world, and then 407 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 4: that amazing image of them all coming out, linked hands 408 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 4: holding them above their heads, with Chris Mullin, the journalist 409 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 4: who had campaigned for them, and then Paddy grabbing the 410 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 4: microphone and shouting how he'd spent sixteen years in prison 411 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 4: for a crime he didn't commit. It was that really 412 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 4: raw emotion that was just so shocking. The police tore 413 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 4: us from the start that they knew we hadn't done it. 414 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 4: They told us they didn't care who'd done it. They 415 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 4: told us that we. 416 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 2: Were selected and that they were gone. 417 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 4: A frayrom us they came the people in their happy 418 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 4: let's w a tullify justice. I don't think them people 419 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 4: enough got the intelligence, no, the honors in a. 420 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 2: Spell award, never mind dispensive. 421 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: The six won their freedom years ago, but even today 422 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: real justice still seems illusory. There's never been a formal 423 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: declaration of innocence or exoneration. Even the court decision throwing 424 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: out their convictions still made veiled references to their possible guilt. 425 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: The closest the Birmingham Six has come to justice was 426 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: when they won a defamation lawsuit after a member of 427 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: Parliament called them guilty. The British government has compensated them financially, 428 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: but the amount doesn't come close to repaying them for 429 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: days of torture and sixteen lost years. 430 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 4: A psychiatrist assessed the six when they put in their 431 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 4: claim for compensation, and he said they had post traumatic 432 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 4: stress to sodia that was on the level of somebody 433 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 4: who had been in a war zone. I think what 434 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 4: they'd been through was exceptional given the violence that they'd suffered, 435 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 4: as well as the miscarriage of justice. I mean, they 436 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 4: had been tortured, they'd had to fight and fight all 437 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 4: the time in prison for their own safety and fight 438 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 4: to prove their innocence. If you've had that level of 439 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 4: adrenaline running through your system for sixteen years, that doesn't 440 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 4: just disappear when you walk out of court. 441 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: And as for the bombing, it's never been definitively solved. 442 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: In fact, over the past few years, there's been an 443 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: ongoing inquest in Birmingham to reinvestigate what happened that day. 444 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: For years, Chris Mullen refused to name the men he 445 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: said had accepted responsibility, citing his journalistic obligation to protect sources. 446 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: Right before the inquest, Mullen finally published an article identifying 447 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: two former IRA members who are now dead. For its part, 448 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: the IRA has never officially admitted responsibility for the bombings. 449 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: At the inquest, one former IRA member and if i'd 450 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: only as witness O, named the same perpetrators that Mullin 451 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: had named, plus two others. Another witness testified that the 452 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: high body count was accidental and described the bombings as 453 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: an IRA operation that went badly wrong in some ways, 454 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: though the system has tried to learn from its mistakes. 455 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 4: If you were writing a history of the criminal justice 456 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 4: system in this country, the Birmingham Six is a real 457 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 4: tipping point. It wasn't about the politics of Northern Ireland. 458 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 4: It was about the criminal justice system has done something 459 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 4: terribly wrong. So there was a real sense at the 460 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 4: time that the system was in crisis. People couldn't have 461 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 4: confidence in the system because there were so many wrongful 462 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 4: convictions happening. And on the day the Birmingham Six were 463 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 4: released from prison, the Home Secretary stood up in Parliament 464 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 4: and said, I'm ordering a commission to look into the 465 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 4: criminal justice system. 466 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: Based on that commission's recommendation, the UK created the Criminal 467 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: Cases Review Commission in nineteen ninety seven. 468 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 4: The Criminal Cases Review Commission is independent, but it's funded 469 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 4: by the government to investigate cases like this and to 470 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 4: see where mischaracters of justice have happened. The CCRC isn't perfect, 471 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 4: but it's a remarkable organization. It's one of the few 472 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 4: places in the world where, to be honest, the government 473 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 4: has been big enough to say things do go wrong 474 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 4: and we need to create a way of putting this right, 475 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 4: and every country should have one. 476 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: In addition, the UK has adopted reforms around the way 477 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: suspects are interrogated outlying not only physical torture, but also 478 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: other tools of coercion, like lying to suspects. These are 479 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: reforms that we should be enacting in the United States. 480 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: I always say that the UK is thirty five years 481 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 2: ahead of where we are in the United States. As 482 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: far as interrogation reforms, they don't allow any confessions to 483 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: be admitted into evidence that are obtained by oppression, and 484 00:28:53,880 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 2: oppression doesn't mean just physical torture. It also means psychological 485 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: torture and the use of tactics which are likely to 486 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: render a confession unreliable. All of these reforms are aimed 487 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 2: at getting the truth and not just getting a confession. 488 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: The British legal system wasn't the only one to initiate 489 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: meaningful change. Patti Hill used the compensation he got for 490 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: his wrongful conviction to start a nonprofit, the Miscarriages of 491 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: Justice Organization. Its mission is to help people recently released 492 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: from prison to get back on their feet and to 493 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: help them handle the pain and anger they'll probably carry 494 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: for a long time. 495 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: There's this incredible caring side to Patty. He talks about 496 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: when people get out of prison, many of them seek 497 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: him out, and at least pre COVID he would welcome 498 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: them in his home, and those are the people that 499 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: give him the greatest comfort in life because they shared 500 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: at least some of the experience that he had when 501 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 2: he was in prison. 502 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: You know, when I went back to Scotland last year, 503 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: I went to visit Patti Hill. 504 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: I'm so sad that I missed that opportunity. 505 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: He's an incredible man, but also he is angry still 506 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: and committed through that anger to improving the system. All 507 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: he wants to do is remember what happened to him 508 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: and then use that memory as fuel to change the system. 509 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: For Patty, all of those physical wounds have long since healed, 510 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: but the emotional wounds and the drive that he has 511 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: to make sure this doesn't happen again, those are there forever. 512 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: We see that time and again with people who are exonerated. 513 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: They want to tell their story. They want the world 514 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 2: to know what happened to them so it doesn't happen again. 515 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Patty, Hello Laura. How are you doing? Patty? 516 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: Oh good? So give us a year ago when I 517 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: saw you in Glasgow at the Mojo offices. Yeah, when 518 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: you work with the families of other people who are 519 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: in prison, is there anything to say to them to 520 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: give them hope. 521 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: I tell their families they're gonna have good moods. They're 522 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 3: gonna have bad moods, you know, And I tell them move, 523 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: You're not on your own. We can mess in the 524 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: mood in any way. That's the main thing, you know. 525 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: You often hear that old cliche time is a great healer? 526 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: Is it true? 527 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: Believe me, Time does not heal nothing. The only thing 528 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 3: you can hope for is that every day, Please God, 529 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 3: you've learned down with a little bit better. 530 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: Do you have a support system people to help you 531 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: on those bad days. 532 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 3: When I meet up with some of the guys from 533 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: the geom and one of the pubs and well being 534 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: be there for five six hours, that's when the barriers 535 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 3: come down. 536 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: You can be yourself, all yourself maybe exactly. 537 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, good time. 538 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a production of Lava for 539 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one Special 540 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: thanks to our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wardis. 541 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: Our production team is headed by senior producer and Pope, 542 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: along with producers Joshi Hammer and Jess Shane. Our show 543 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: is mixed by Genie Montalvo. John Colbert is our intrepid intern. 544 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: Our music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow 545 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: me on Instagram or Twitter at Laura and I Wrider, 546 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: and you. 547 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 2: Can follow me on Twitter at s Drizzen. 548 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit Wrongful Conviction podcast 549 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to follow the show on Instagram 550 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and 551 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction