1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: Body balance. But Joseph's gotten more. Just about every industry

2
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,000
Speaker 1: has some kind of mythology that comes along with it. Now,

3
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: you know, when we think about mythology, many times we

4
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 1: think about ancient stories, right, And you know, I would

5
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: imagine that there are things even in the information technology

6
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: world that are mythologized. Now in death investigation though, and

7
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: specifically working in morgues and that sort of thing. They

8
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 1: are these stories that float around and people always come

9
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 1: to you to want to know if if this is

10
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 1: actually true, you know, like do the dead actually sit up?

11
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 1: Do they talk to you? Do they you know, they

12
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: experience pain? Of actually have people ask me that? And

13
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: there are those stories that are out there that you

14
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: kind of think about and you know that there is

15
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: a kernel of truth in them. And one such story

16
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: was relayed to me by a friend that worked in

17
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 1: a very specific medical examiner's office. I'm not going to

18
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 1: say the name of it. And there was a particularly

19
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 1: brutal homicide that occurred in this jurisdiction and an assisted

20
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,200
Speaker 1: district attorney, the pathologist that was going to do the autopsy,

21
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 1: and a detective showed up early one morning to attend

22
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: the autopsy of this just brutalized victim. And upon their arrival,

23
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: they walk in to the ancient autopsy suite that has

24
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 1: been there for probably close to one hundred years, and

25
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 1: there they heard noise, the rattling of metal on metal,

26
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 1: and when they walked in, they beheld a fellow who

27
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 1: had been assigned to this medical examiner's office from the

28
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: local jail, who was a trustee, and that subject was

29
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:23,720
Speaker 1: in a tray with a deceased elderly woman, let's say,

30
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 1: violating her born out before their very eyes. I don't

31
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: necessarily think that story is anecdotal. And you think, Morgan,

32
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: can we go any lower? We can't. You've been on

33
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: this journey with me now for many years. We can't

34
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 1: go lower. And today we're going to plumb those depths

35
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 1: once again because there is a story in the news

36
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: right now that will either turn your stomach or set

37
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: your hair on end. I'm talking about a fellow who

38
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: killed his wife, buried his wife, then dug up her

39
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 1: remains and did be unthinkable. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and

40
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: this is Buddy Banks Dave. I love the term plumbing

41
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 1: the depths. I don't know. Maybe I should have been

42
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 1: in the Navy instead of the army, you know, because

43
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 1: you think I've always imagined myself on some ancient ship,

44
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, when they before they had sonar, and they're

45
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 1: sailing out in the blue water, and they have no

46
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: idea about the depths that they're sailing over. And I

47
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: can just imagine whatever kind of rudimentary, rudimentary device they

48
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: had that where they could actually tell how deep something was,

49
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 1: they knew they weren't touching the bottom. I can't say

50
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: that in the world of depravity that we are touching

51
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: the bottom here, but I think we're on the fast

52
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,840
Speaker 1: track to it. What do you say?

53
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 2: My friend, Rachel Castilla was five feet two inches tall,

54
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: joe weigh one hundred and five pounds. She was a

55
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 2: young woman who had educated herself worked really hard. Mama too,

56
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 2: worked really hard, putting herself through school to be educated

57
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 2: because she wanted to help other women and other people

58
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 2: in relationship issues.

59
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 3: She wanted to be there for other people.

60
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 2: She knew she needed to be there for other people

61
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,160
Speaker 2: because of the relationship that she had been in with

62
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:52,040
Speaker 2: her husband, zar Bob Ali. What Ali confessed to Joseph

63
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,160
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan is something that you once said you know,

64
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,279
Speaker 2: Ted Bundy used to go back and raise his victims

65
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: after they were already decomposing. And I thought, you were

66
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 2: trying to make me sick. And I looked it up

67
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,240
Speaker 2: and studied and went, you've got to be kidding.

68
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 3: He wasn't joking.

69
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,239
Speaker 2: This is almost as bad because, if not worse, because

70
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 2: this is a woman that you were married to. Now

71
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 2: she has put him on the road. She they've been

72
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 2: separated nine months, and in that nine month period of time,

73
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 2: she wanted him to still have a really good relationship

74
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 2: with the kids and allowed him to stay there in

75
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 2: the department together. She brought her sister in because he

76
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 2: got to be too much, and they moved him out.

77
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 2: But she went that far. She'd been over backwards in

78
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 2: this relationship to make it work for him. And the

79
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 2: way he returned that as she was getting her freedom,

80
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 2: he he plotted and planned, Joe, he plotted and planned

81
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 2: so that he could get the children. It was his

82
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 2: day to have them. And as I said, they had

83
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 2: been separated in nine months. He lived there with her

84
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: for the first six months, but then he just was

85
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,479
Speaker 2: getting to be too much of a rat hole and

86
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 2: she kicked them in to the curb, and so he's

87
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: been in his own place for about three months, and

88
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 2: so he gets the kids for his visitation. He takes

89
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 2: them hour and a half two hours wait to his parents'

90
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 2: house and then drives back and sits outside the apartment

91
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 2: in the bushes, waiting for her to get home. And

92
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 2: when he sees Rachel get home from work, he sneaks

93
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 2: in behind her. See, he wasn't waiting inside the apartment.

94
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 2: He waited until she went in, so she you know,

95
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 2: because what at the time that we're the most app

96
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 2: to look around at things, be really aware of our surroundings.

97
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,839
Speaker 2: Right when we first walk into an empty home, you're

98
00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 2: gonna smell things. You know, you would smell somebody's odors

99
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 2: if they were there in a darkened home. He stayed

100
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: outside waiting for her to get in. She goes into

101
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 2: the bedroom, she gets the bathroom, whatever, and he waits

102
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 2: and when she opens the door from her bedroom, this man,

103
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 2: who was her husband, they have two children together, killed

104
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 2: her with a knife. And that was only the beginning

105
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 2: of the horror. Now, Joe, if you stab somebody in

106
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 2: the chest, you've seen the crime scenes after the fact.

107
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:29,160
Speaker 3: I have.

108
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 2: Reported on many of these where people try to clean

109
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 2: them up, and it's really an impossible task unless you

110
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 2: have many people in the right equipment to clean up

111
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,239
Speaker 2: that kind of blood that comes out of a human

112
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 2: body when they're bleeding out, which is what happened here.

113
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 2: He did try to clean it up, didn't work.

114
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've often wondered about this, and I think I've

115
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 1: even stated it on body bags several times because we've

116
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: covered a lot of these cass I've often thought that

117
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,120
Speaker 1: you would. Now I'm glad you brought brought up the

118
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 1: idea of equipment, and of course equipment goes to planning, right,

119
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: so you know, would it be possible to go into

120
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: a location and say, for instance, you had are at

121
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: your ready, you had safe for instance, something like a

122
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,240
Speaker 1: steam cleaner, you know, where you could go in and

123
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: you could swab down the area perhaps another nautical term there,

124
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 1: like swabbing the deck. Swab it down, swab it down

125
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,520
Speaker 1: with I don't know, some type of detergent, go back

126
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 1: over it, swab it down with bleach. Let that set,

127
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,840
Speaker 1: and then you go back in and you essentially apply

128
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 1: steam to it. It would be it would be a

129
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 1: monumental undertaking. And here's you know the physical process of

130
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: doing that. First off, one of the things that's always

131
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 1: going to get you is that blood itself and its

132
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 1: deposition many times is so tiny that you're not going

133
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,800
Speaker 1: to get everything. You're you're you're just not. I mean,

134
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: it's when you think about the spray and you know,

135
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 1: you talked about how she was stabbed. Let's just say,

136
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 1: for instance, she stabbed in the chest, which all indications

137
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 1: are I think at this point in time it has occurred.

138
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 1: We saw this with Travis Alexander's murder at the hands

139
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 1: of Jody Arius. There's a great photo if you if

140
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: you guys ever get a chance to take a look

141
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 1: at it from his bathroom where he walks over to

142
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: the sink and he has expirated blood. People like to

143
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:04,000
Speaker 1: say aspirated, but aspirated is like you're taking it in, okay,

144
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 1: and the expiration is where you you know, kind of called.

145
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 3: Well, I've used that term wrong, now.

146
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's okay. I've used I've used the

147
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: term wrong. And actually here's something. Here's something. A good

148
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 1: friend of mine over in Great Britain, and she is

149
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:27,319
Speaker 1: regarded as one of the world's leading experts in blood deposition,

150
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,800
Speaker 1: interpretation and she actually I was doing an interview with

151
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,280
Speaker 1: her where I was interviewing her at Crime Con UK

152
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,040
Speaker 1: and embarrassment of embarrassment, she corrected me on stage, and

153
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,839
Speaker 1: so I've been very careful about that, you know, talking

154
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 1: about that.

155
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 2: But you know, just it is looking nicer when a

156
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 2: British person corrects you in public. Does it feel like

157
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,959
Speaker 2: at least they're being polite while they do it.

158
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, to a certain degree.

159
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, even when we're really smart.

160
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they do have a polite way. It's they

161
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,960
Speaker 1: are much a can of Southerners that say bless your heart.

162
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

163
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 2: By the way, if one of us meets you somewhere

164
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 2: and you do something stupid, we will say pleasure heart,

165
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: bless your heart, a word you never want to hear

166
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,080
Speaker 2: after your name, Bless your heart.

167
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: Dave my grandmother, you say, bless your poor little pointed head.

168
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 2: There you go, and uh o, hey, let me ask

169
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 2: you something, queenly you mentioned about like blood being so

170
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,199
Speaker 2: difficult to get. Is it because blood isn't just kool aid,

171
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 2: It's not just a red liquid. It's got iron in it,

172
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 2: it's got other things in it that are difficult to

173
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 2: clean up.

174
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 3: Is that the case.

175
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, blood is not a stand alone liquid. You know,

176
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,439
Speaker 1: when you say blood, you know you have to think

177
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 1: about all the components that are contained in blood. You've

178
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,439
Speaker 1: got RBC's, red blood cells, you got white blood cells,

179
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,719
Speaker 1: you got serum, there's plasma, so you've you've got all

180
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 1: of these components. And interestingly enough, if you have like

181
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: a big bully bood letting at a scene, did you

182
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,320
Speaker 1: know that you can Actually this is kind of a

183
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 1: cool thing from a scientific standpoint, and I've often wondered

184
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,960
Speaker 1: if there was any way that we could utilize this

185
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 1: to determine post mortem interval, But that's beside the point.

186
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 1: If you have a so called pool of blood, Dave,

187
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 1: did you know that on like a flat surface, it

188
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 1: has to be a smooth surface. Not going to happen

189
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,640
Speaker 1: on carpet or you won't be able to appreciate it

190
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,439
Speaker 1: on carpet, But it like on a smooth linoleum surface,

191
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 1: like in a kitchen or a bathroom or a tiled surface.

192
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can actually see the serum

193
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: in the blood separating from the RBC's where you've got

194
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 1: this kind of yellowish clear liquid that's over here, and

195
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: it is it's still viscous, which means thick you know,

196
00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 1: but you see the red blood cells migrating to one side,

197
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: and of course this is a marker in time. Well,

198
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 1: why does it not do that in the body. Well,

199
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a gas and oil mix, you know,

200
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: like on a what is.

201
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 3: It a two stroke engine?

202
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's always it's always churning, you know why

203
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: in life are you know, it's always churning and death though,

204
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: and particularly if it spills out of the body, you'll

205
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: see it separate out and separates this migration that takes place.

206
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it is a complex liquid and it

207
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 1: is viscous and viscosity. We hear that term applied when

208
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,560
Speaker 1: you're buying motor oil or you know, the motorole commercials.

209
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 1: They'll say it has a certain viscosity to it, you know,

210
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 1: some talking head will say that in the background over

211
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 1: watching you know, court of oil being poured into an engine,

212
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: and that goes to thickness. Right, So when you expiate blood,

213
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 1: which happens lots of times chest injuries, how does that happen? Well,

214
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 1: if a knife is inserted into the chest and it

215
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,719
Speaker 1: passes through the chest wall and it gets into the

216
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,839
Speaker 1: lung You've got tons of vessels in the lungs. Well,

217
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: they also communicate with the bronchial tree. Okay, So the

218
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: blood will leach out into these spaces and when we exhale, okay,

219
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, carbon dioxide putting it out. You've got blood

220
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: that is being infused into the airway and it is

221
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 1: sprayed out at that point in time. That's called expiration.

222
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 1: So it's aspirated, you know, and then it's expiated, and

223
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 1: then it's particulated, and it particulated when it goes out.

224
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 1: If you again back to Travis Alexander, when you look

225
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 1: at that crime scene photo at his sink, you'd have

226
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 1: these particulated bits of blood everywhere. Didn't She didn't even

227
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 1: make a a half ass attempt at cleaning up there.

228
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: She just left. You've got a guy here, this guy

229
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 1: from Seemi Valley, California, that has made an attempt to

230
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 1: clean up. But David, there's no way, it's almost empirical

231
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 1: impossibility to clean up every bit of a remnant that's

232
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: left behind.

233
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 2: I think I'm sorry it worse based on what her

234
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,120
Speaker 2: sister said, because it was her sister that came home

235
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: and found her. Her sister was gone, you know, and

236
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 2: they called the police because it's missing persons, you know,

237
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 2: thing at first, but you know, it just hit me

238
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 2: when you were talking about what it would take to

239
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 2: be prepared, you know, his steam cleaner and having all

240
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 2: this preparation, you know. And I'm not trying to find

241
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 2: a reason to credit the mob with anything but ins

242
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 2: a movie, even with Goodfellas, when Joe Peshy is getting

243
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,240
Speaker 2: into the face he walks in and he's standing on

244
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: plastic because they prepare the room by laying down plasket

245
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 2: so that there's your blood. Yeah, and they just roll

246
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 2: it up, put them in carpet, take them out. But

247
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 2: in this case, the blood was so bad when her

248
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 2: when it's when her sister arrived home and she doesn't

249
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 2: see you know, there's nobody there. Calls police and they come.

250
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 2: They said it was the bloodiest crime scene they'd ever seen.

251
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,360
Speaker 2: And even though it was a missing person's they you know, kidnapping.

252
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 2: It was a violent kidnapping, but it was police, I think.

253
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 2: And you would know this because you're around them all

254
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: the time. They do have a wink and a nod

255
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 2: with one another on whether or not they believe somebody

256
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 2: is still able to survive and live. Yeah, after what

257
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 2: they're looking at. And I mean I think in just

258
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,000
Speaker 2: what they saw, they knew they were not looking for

259
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 2: a live person. They were going to be looking for

260
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 2: a body.

261
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's you know, and that's again, this goes

262
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: to terminology. You talked about the wink of the nod

263
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 1: with the police will put it in clinical terms in

264
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:55,160
Speaker 1: the forensics world, where you'll hear a you'll hear a

265
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, and this goes to case and there are

266
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: cases out there, and I urge everybody to to remember

267
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 1: this because you'll hear it again in the future. There

268
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: are cases out there where a forensic pathologies. Even though

269
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: you cannot quantify, Dave, I want everybody to hear my words.

270
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 1: You cannot. Even you can't quantify, you can kind of qualify.

271
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 1: You can look at a blood stain and say, based

272
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 1: upon what I'm seeing here, the amount of blood that

273
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: is here in this space is what's referred to as

274
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: being incompatible with life. That means that there's so much

275
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 1: spillage there that you know, and for a woman her size,

276
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: and the volume of blood in the human body, it

277
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,879
Speaker 1: varies from person to person. Now, we do know that

278
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,720
Speaker 1: she is rather diminutive. She's not a big woman, and

279
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 1: so you think top in with her. I would imagine

280
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 1: maybe two gallons in her body. Okay, if you want to,

281
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 1: just think about two milk jucks. Okay, standard gallon milk

282
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 1: jucks might be on the low end here. You know,

283
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: we might be talking I don't know, one point seventy

284
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 1: five gallons of blood in her body. Well, you know

285
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: you still need that volume of blood to function, Okay,

286
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:29,399
Speaker 1: And that's just what we're seeing externally. Here's a trick though,

287
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:36,360
Speaker 1: how much blood still remained in her chest, perhaps floating

288
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: about because she bled out into her body. You take

289
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 1: that and couple with what was externally observed, and yeah,

290
00:18:47,240 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 1: we do have a blood bath on our hands. Where's Mommy?

291
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 1: That's all I can think of. You got two kids,

292
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 1: the one thing dads are great, Okay, don't misconstrue what

293
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying, But when you got little kids, the one

294
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,719
Speaker 1: thing they want to know is where's mommy? Where's mommy?

295
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,640
Speaker 1: I heard it with my kids. I hear with my grandkids.

296
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 1: And sometimes there's not enough hugs and kisses and warm

297
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: blankets and book reading and game playing to assuage the

298
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: worry over the absence of a mother. And all I

299
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 1: can think about, Dave is Rachel Castilla. Her kids are

300
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: wondering where she is, you know, absent, And little did

301
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: they know that that final time that they glimpsed their

302
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: mother was going to be it, that was going to

303
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 1: be it for the rest of their lives. That they're

304
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 1: not going to get a hug, They're not going to

305
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: get a kiss, they're not going to get an embrace,

306
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: they're not going to be corrected, they're not going to

307
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: be you know, uh uh told what to do in

308
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: the morning to get ready. That's that's vanished in at

309
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: the twinkling of an eye.

310
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 3: It's so sad, Joe that.

311
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: I'm a found tired of men that just they're horrible

312
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 2: to the woman while they're living together as man and wife.

313
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 3: They're horrible to the kids.

314
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 2: And then you know, they go crazy after that when

315
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: they're when they're kicked to the curb, and it's just, really,

316
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 2: this is your option, this is what you came up with,

317
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,239
Speaker 2: This was your your best plan. You didn't treat her

318
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 2: right when you were here together, and now your best

319
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 2: idea is go ahead and kill her and then you

320
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 2: end up going to jail, So you basically have ruined

321
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: your children's life. You've killed her. Look, if you want

322
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: to ruin your own life, go do that. But my goodness,

323
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: I'm just done with these guys acting like they can

324
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: justify their activity somehow. And by the way, he tried

325
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: to here's your bottom line, four days, Joe. They're looking

326
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 2: for her for four days. This family, you know, her

327
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,919
Speaker 2: sister was the one that walked into the apartment and

328
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,959
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, there wasn't enough blood there that they

329
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: realized it was incompatible life.

330
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to.

331
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: As as an eternal optimist, I would have been the

332
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: one to say, but mine might have survived. Mine could

333
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 2: have and I would have been out there on the street.

334
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: Have you seen this girl? There was a violent you know,

335
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 2: a violent attack happened. And the only thing they know

336
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: because police backed, you know, they got to figure out, well, okay,

337
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: who had the kids?

338
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: All right?

339
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: The ex husband as soon to be ex husband, had

340
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: the children. Where are they? Well he took them to

341
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: his parents' house, which is an hour and a half

342
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: away in Victorville. And as they're looking around spending four

343
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: days with hanging flyers, and posters. I don't know how

344
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: they actually figured out where and what he had done,

345
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: but you got to know, a violent attack for no

346
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: reason doesn't happen usually, it's I wouldn't think anyway. At

347
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 2: any rate, they were able to triangulate figure out where

348
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: he where the body was because it was in the

349
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere, Joe and by the way, I looked

350
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: at a map on this. He took her body to

351
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: Antelope Valley, the husband did, and buried her in a

352
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: shallow grave. And I looked at this, I thought, Okay,

353
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: there in Steamy Valley, you got Victorville, where his parents are,

354
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: and then Anaelope Valley. Now they're not close and they're

355
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 2: not on the way to one another. If you're going

356
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: to Antelope Valley, you're going there. If you're going to Victorville,

357
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: you're going there. You're not going to go to Victorville

358
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: by way of Anelote.

359
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 3: Valley or you know.

360
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: And so I kept trying to figure out, how did

361
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: they how did police tie this together? I don't know.

362
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to assume this happened in twenty twenty. So

363
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: you got cell phones, you've got mileage on cars, you've

364
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: got basic ideology, of what a person is going to do.

365
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: Places they've been and they were able to eventually find

366
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: out that the husband did this. But Joe, when they

367
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: get him down and they're talking to the guy this,

368
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how he could be a human being

369
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: like you and me. I know, we'd breathe the same

370
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 2: air and everything. But this guy admits that he killed

371
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 2: his wife. He leaves behind this bloody mess. He had

372
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: taken his kids to their grandparents, his parents, and he

373
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: takes her body up to Antalo Valley and buries it

374
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: in a shallow grave that he had prepared, I guess.

375
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: But then and he goes to say at his parents house,

376
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: hang out with his kids for.

377
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 3: A little while. Now about two o'clock in the morning.

378
00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 2: Joe, kids are asleep, Mom and dad are asleep. He

379
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: Zar bob Ali goes back in the car and drives

380
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: back to Antelope Valley where he had buried his wife. Yeah,

381
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: I'll let you go ahead and tell us what happened next,

382
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: because I'm trying to figure out what kind of person

383
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: does this. And I would imagine at your stage of

384
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: the game, you quit doing that a long time ago.

385
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you you know, sometimes you sit back and you

386
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: shake your head at the level of depravity out there.

387
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: And look, I know I get buzzed every now and

388
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: then by people that you know, think that I'm being judgmental,

389
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, Okay, if you think I'm being judgmental

390
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: in this particular case, I don't know, it might be

391
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: time for you to start, you know, I don't know,

392
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: spending time doing something other than listening to me, because

393
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: this is a real Uh. The common denominator here is

394
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: that you've got a mind that is so depraved. We

395
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: do know that Ali, he wrapped her, he wrapped her

396
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: body as he had you know, he had removed her

397
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: from her home. Uh. And you know, one of the

398
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: big questions I have, I think this goes back to

399
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: I think about this, you know, brings to mind Chris

400
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: Watts with me and how you know he had he

401
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: had those those babies in that car and they were

402
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 1: alive and the wife you know, was laying there, you know,

403
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: in the car, and he knew what he was doing.

404
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: And I often think about, you know, where were the

405
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: babies at this point in tom you know, did he

406
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: entertain the idea that he was going to transport them

407
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: at the same time, had he entertained that is there

408
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: some marker in the sand where he's saying, Okay, I've

409
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: gone too far. I'm not going to subject them to this.

410
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: I know that I've killed my wife. But if you

411
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: think that he is utilizing good judgment, it gets worse.

412
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: He really goes off the rails here because he's taken

413
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: her and has buried her. I'd like to know, I

414
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: think from a forensics perspective, how was this gravesite actually prepped?

415
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: Did he did he predig the hole? What tools were

416
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: utilized in order to facilitate this in the area, you know,

417
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: this Antelope Valley area, Dave. When you look at the

418
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: topography out there, and I know that you've spent time

419
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: in the desert, people think that desert is like blowing

420
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: sand like the Sahara, and that's that's kind of far

421
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: from it. I always think of, you know, crack scorched

422
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: earth is what I think of, you know, and very

423
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: very hard, almost like concrete. And did he prep the

424
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: grave in advance? What were his thoughts? What was it

425
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: about that particular area? Had he been there before, had

426
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: he been there with her, had he been there with

427
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: the kids? What is it that Drew him to that

428
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: location because he felt safe enough. Dave that after he

429
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: had brutally murdered her with a sharp sharp instrument, stabbed

430
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: her multiple times, wrapped her body up, he deposits her

431
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: out there. Well after she's deposited and has been there

432
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: for some time, he travels back to that location and

433
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: literally puts shovel to earth once again in the same spot.

434
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: He digs her up. Dave. Now, if she's encased in bedding, carpeting,

435
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: whatever it is, he literally has to kind of unscroll

436
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: her out of this covering that she's in. This is

437
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there are a lot of things

438
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: going on here. After he takes her out, he lays

439
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: her on the ground. I don't know what the status

440
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: of her clothing was. Was she clothed? Did he rip

441
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: her clothing off of her? She's already started to decay,

442
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: he said, Morgan, how do you know that? I know

443
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: that because the moment we stop living, we begin to decay.

444
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: She's exposed to the elements. You say, Morgan, she's covered

445
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: in earth. Now she's still in a wild environment and

446
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: buried there. He is, in fact taking her body out

447
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: and Dave, this is where it really gets dark, he

448
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: sexually assaults the remains of his wife. To what point

449
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: does a person have to go to in order to

450
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: facilitate that is? What's the driver? Is it a control issue?

451
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: Is it wanting to really relive the brutality. I think

452
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: back to those images, and I don't know if you

453
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: remember this. Do you remember the images of BTK where

454
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: there were these polaroids that he had taken. You remember

455
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: polaroids used to have the timer and you could set

456
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: it up on a tripod and it would snap an image.

457
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: He had cameras that were set up that way. And

458
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: he's all dressed and I remember one that stood out.

459
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: I think he's wearing a woman's slip. He's got a

460
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: wig on. He might have that damn mask on that

461
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: he wore. He's bound and he's in a grave taking

462
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: pictures of himself.

463
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 3: Is there?

464
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: I think the big question is is that are you

465
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: talking about a body that are you talking about something

466
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: behind him that triggers arousal with him? Had he always

467
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: fantasized about having her dead? Because a lot of these necrophiles,

468
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: they do not function well with the living. That's why

469
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: they're necro files. I think my question is did he

470
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: have any previous experience. Because I hate to say this,

471
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: It's one thing to murder the mother of your children.

472
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: It's a completely different kettle of fish to take those

473
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: brutalized remains, dig them out of that soil and begin

474
00:30:48,680 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: to rape all that remains. Well, my apologies day for

475
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, exposing you to what I just exposed you to.

476
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: I think that there's however, I think that to really

477
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: process this, we have to understand that Ali would have

478
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: made just let me kind of unspool this for you

479
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. He would have made potentially a biological

480
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: deposition onto her remains that would be fresh or fresh

481
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: air that have that arose in the wake of her death. Okay,

482
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: now that's got a creepy factor to it.

483
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: All.

484
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: That's completely apart from everything else. And let me tell

485
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: you this, Because he's coming in contact with her decomposing remains,

486
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: not only would he have contact drawing away from her.

487
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: Remember Lacart principle, Every contact leaves a trace. If she's

488
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: got skin slippage, if she's got bloating, if she has

489
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: got any kind of purge that is arising from her

490
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: remains that would have transferred onto him. It would have

491
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: been on his skin, his clothing, he would have smelled

492
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: of death. Here's the other thing. Because of the action

493
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: that is involved in a rape. If and we know

494
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: that she was she stabbed multiple times, you're actually still

495
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: going to have blood body fluids that can include decompositional

496
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: fluids that will be issuing from those wounds as well.

497
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: That just goes to the mechanism of the sexual act. Okay,

498
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: so you've got a lot working here. When you think

499
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: about this, you know these are horribly this is a

500
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: horribly grotesque tale. But Dave, this is you know how

501
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: we're always saying there's nothing new under the sun. Just

502
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: this past summer, there's a maintenance worker at hospital and

503
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: I think it's in East Sussex or Sussex, Great Britain.

504
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: They've hooked this guy up on charges. This is in

505
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: Great Britain. They've hooked him up on charges stemming from

506
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: his contact with what they're thinking are one hundred dead

507
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: women and girls over a twelve year period at two

508
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: separate what they're referring to as Kent hospitals over there

509
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: where he has actually been found to be engaged in

510
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: necrophilic activities with these bodies. They also think he might

511
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: be a serial killer as well. He may have killed

512
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: two women. So for those of you guys out there

513
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: that are hearing this and you think that this is

514
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: not something, that this is kind of an outler, that

515
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen, I'm here to tell you that it does.

516
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: And it's something that's gone on for years and years.

517
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it has to do with

518
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 1: dominance and control. And again, in no way, I'm in

519
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: no way a profiler, but I have been around enough

520
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: profilers to know that one of the things that these

521
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: people that think like this, I think Jeffrey Dahmer is

522
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: the perfect example of this because if you remember from

523
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: the court record with Jeffrey Dahmer, he stated that he

524
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: wanted to create zombies, right, yes, sex slaves that he

525
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: could dominate and control. And even after that, he felt

526
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: as though that when he had them, you know, as

527
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 1: they're in the throes of death, they were still warm

528
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: to the touch, but he would retain them for a

529
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: while and you know, kind of play house with them,

530
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, he could hug them, he could

531
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: hold them, he could say and of course he winds

532
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: up also engaging in cannibalism, there's not too many degrees

533
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: of separation here. I think once you start down this

534
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: really dark path with people like this, you know, all

535
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: bets are off at that point. You know, it's kind

536
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: of open season. And that's why I think that in

537
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: Ali's case, I would be very curious to dig into

538
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: his past. I hope that somebody is digging into his

539
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: past to find to try to determine if this is

540
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: something he's had an inclination towards before, if this is

541
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: something that he has engaged with or engaged in before,

542
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: because it's just it's absolutely terrifying and disgusting on so

543
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: many levels.

544
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: Dave.

545
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: You know, he was twenty five, as was Rachel the

546
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: time that she was killed. He's twenty eight now. And again,

547
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: this happened in November of twenty twenty two, and there

548
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: are a couple of things that happened. And I was

549
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: looking at his confession to police when he was arrested

550
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: versus what came up at trial. Now in the right

551
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: after he was arrested. He was arrested after a couple

552
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: of days, you know, and that's where he admitted and

553
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 2: by the way, he didn't.

554
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: A lot of these.

555
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: Killers, they tell a story to police while they're while

556
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: they're admitting what they've done, but they confess in a

557
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: way that relieves them of some of the constants, you know,

558
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: like they didn't do it except she hit me first

559
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: or whatever. But in this case, he told police when

560
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: he sits down, he said, just to confirm that I

561
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 2: am a monster, I went dug rep and raped her.

562
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: He actually told them that. He didn't say I went

563
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: and I loved on her one last time. I was

564
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: sorry for what I did. Nothing like that. No, he said,

565
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: I went back at two o'clock in the morning, dug

566
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: her up and I raped her. I raped her dead body,

567
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: just to provide I'm a monster.

568
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: And you know, and this is unfortunately, uh, this is

569
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: a story. Lord. I hate to use the word legacy,

570
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: but this is you know, parents are one thing, you know,

571
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: in her peripheral family. No disrespect to them, but these babies,

572
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: they're going to live with this, you know, forever and ever. Amen.

573
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: You know, this is a tale that will and they're

574
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: going to know there's no way, you know, the Internet

575
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: never dies, right, you know, and curious minds, you know,

576
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: you can just imagine off in the future. They want

577
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: to find out the dirty details. Well, they'll be able

578
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: to access all of the transcripts from every one of

579
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: the proceedings. They'll be able to have access to that.

580
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: Particularly as we move further and further into the future,

581
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: they're going to want to know answers because you know,

582
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: like like many of us out there, we're imprinted with

583
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: those experiences that we had in childhood. We bear them

584
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: for the rest of our lives. And you know, we're

585
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: not saying that the kids are destined, they're destined, you know,

586
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: to behave in a manner like this, But what we

587
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: are saying is that parents make decisions and they saddle

588
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: children with burdens that no human being should have to bear,

589
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: particularly the children of Rachel Castia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

590
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: and this is bodyby