WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 76 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.360 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.240 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.760 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.680 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.560 there's got to be nothing new here for you. But 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:27.240 you can make your own decisions. I did eat a 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.479 whole sleep oreos in front of a seven eleven today 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.880 and was scalded by a ten year old. It was 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.840 for medical reasons. Okay, how am I going to introduce? 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:38.640 How do we need to start? That's the start, we 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.559 already got it. Okay, yeah, we'll do the oreos yep, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:46.400 ten year old children? Okay, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.480 this is where it works. And today everyone, because it's Monday, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.440 we are starting something that we like to call shitty 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.880 Mas Monday. I don't know as we'll actually let us 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.120 put shitty in the in the in the title. They 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.800 might might we'll get that. That's that's what we're calling it. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.360 That's what we're calling it on the I can't stop 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.840 us here. It would be funnier if it just had 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:08.880 like ten seconds of bleep and then it was like 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:13.360 a mayor's Monday, like I'd said, some truly unfathomable shit. Okay, 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.840 so we've noticed that across America right there are a 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:22.400 lot of mayors who ran and were elected as liberals, progressives, 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.760 certainly as Democrats, but tend to have governed in a 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:30.080 particularly shitty and terrible way that doesn't really have any 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.240 material difference from a Republican mayor, but like the way 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.199 that they post on Instagram is a little bit different. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.800 So I guess that is nice. And we're starting with 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.240 the town I live in, which is San Diego, and 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.399 with the mayor we have, who is Todd Gloria. The 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.280 people might have heard of Todd Gloria, and last year 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.800 we did we did an episode with several people who 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.480 work with an housed people in San Diego, mutual Aid 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.520 workers advocates, and they spoke a lot about Tod Gloria. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.520 Not in gloing terms, but we spoke about Tod Gloria. 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.919 So we're going to talk about his record on homeless, 0:01:59.920 --> 0:02:01.800 and we're going to talk about his life a little bit, 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.360 and then we're going to look at sort of the 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.520 promises he made when he was elected, I guess, and 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.720 the things that he's done, which it will shock you 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.399 to hear, are not the same things. And we're also 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:16.800 going to talk about his hip hop video. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:21.400 Bunnily really yeah he did. He did Return of the Mac, 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:27.000 but hilariously changed it to Todd Gloria is Back. Oh yeah, no. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.639 If you want to see some problematically sinking, you're going 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:35.840 to Yeah, ok, brace yourself. Did a local newspaper had 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.600 a headline that called it the cringiest video ever, which 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.440 rare win for local media. Everyone's in a while local 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.000 news does one good thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, occasionally, like 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:52.040 like like a stopped clock there, yeah exactly. Yeah yeah, 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.320 all right. So when Todd Gloria talks about his early life, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.000 he talks about being the son of a maid in 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.440 a gardener, and it's a way I think of distinguishing 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.640 himself from the very few elites who have held power 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.600 in the city for a very long time, people whose 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.880 names are on every building. But his dad's LinkedIn profile 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.840 tell us a little bit of a different story. According 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.280 to his own LinkedIn account, Phil Glorier A sixty four 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.520 has been in the aerospace industry for many years, including 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.160 as a production controller at General Atomics, who people might 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.240 remember as a manufacturers of the Predator and Reaper drones. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.440 Oh yeah, so it's a slightly different story, right, It's 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.079 different from maiden a gardener. Prior to working at General Atomics, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.640 fil Gloria works for fourteen years the supervisor at United 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.760 Technologies and other errors space and technology company. Gloria has 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.320 clarified later that his parents didn't work in those specific fields, 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.200 that the son of a maiden a guidener thing recently, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.480 but they did when he was born, so he wasn't 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.320 He's not. Yeah, I don't, that's bullshit. Like I could. 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.720 I I could take this argument and argue that, like 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:57.280 I am the child of like a pancake maker and 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:02.920 a dishwasher, like this is yeah, yeah, it's like it's 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.720 it's sort of classic like this classic politicians, right, like 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.120 like telling enough of the truth for it not to 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.440 be a lie, but but maybe not telling the whole truth. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.200 And like I know, like like my folks worked in 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.360 agriculture when I was a kid. They still do, but 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.680 like they also worked very hard you know to like 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:22.760 provide for me and get a better place in life, 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.000 and I wouldn't want to run them down by denigrating 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.840 the work that they did, but hey, I don't want 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.240 to be a mayor either. Um yeah, it's also like also, like, 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.120 you know, you don't get to do your fucking like 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.080 burnishing working class credentials, and then your dad worked for 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:41.360 a fucking like like yeah, yeah, none of my parents 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.960 have ever made a Reaper drone, so I guess I 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.000 do have that in my favor. It is an extremely 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.119 San Diego story. In twenty twenty, to San Diego Union 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.920 Tribune wrote he was running. So the San Diego story 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.200 that allowed his mother a hotel maid and his father 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.320 a gardener, to work hard and afford a home doesn't 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.279 end with their generation. That story seemed to admit the 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.640 glaring reality that San Diego is one of the least 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.160 affordable cities in the world right now, and it's housing 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.159 as unaffordable as ever has been, and it's got worse 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.040 since tog Gloria became mayor. So who is tog Gloria. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.120 He's an enrolled member of the Tlinget hyda Indian tribe 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.400 of Alaska. He was born and raised in San Diego 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.560 and graduated from the University of San Diego with a 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.279 bachelor's degree in history and political science. He began his 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.360 career to San Diego's Health and Human Services Agency, and 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.120 then he worked with Congresswoman's Susan Davis, who became his mentor. 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:35.920 He was elected to the city Council in two thousand 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.320 and eight and two and twelve and served as interim 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.920 mayor from August twenty thirteen to March twenty foty. He 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.680 was also elected to the California State Assembly in twenty 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.800 sixteen and twenty eighteen, and he chose not to seek 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.200 reelection for the Assembly when he launched his campaign for 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.039 mayor in twenty twenty. So he's done the kind of 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.440 the sort of the climb up of offices that you 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.080 see a lot of these folks do, right, And I'm 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.799 sure that he has admissions to run for further office. 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.520 That would be my guests. So in twenty twenty he 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.960 was elected mayor of San Diego. He became our first 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.800 gay mayor, our first mayor of color, our first indigenous mayor. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:12.200 So it was a lot of first for us, and 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.400 it is good to have a gay indigenous mayor, right 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.800 like if we're going to have a mayor. You didn't know. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.679 It's nice to it's a position, it's over to more people. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.040 But unfortunately he hasn't done a lot else to encourage 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.599 up with social mobility. He made a big push for 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.880 private sector housing building as opposed to subsidize public housing, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.160 and he promised police reform. In a twenty twenty op 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.080 ed for The Union Tribune, Lauria wrote, we watched in 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.680 horror as George Floyd was killed by four Minneapolis police officers. 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.320 Mister Floyd and other victims of excessive force by law 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.719 enforcement demand that we revisit, reconsider, and reimagine how police 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.240 operate in our community and how we expect them to 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.440 interact with the public. It's time we work together to 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.960 create a more just system of policing. The primary responsibility 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.040 of government is protected people, all people. Many of us 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.360 don't feel safe or protected, particularly our black community, so 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.360 it seems like like a pro at least reform statement, right. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.000 He went on to say, whether it's our mental health 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.239 crisis or a homelessness crisis, we resort to the same solution. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.040 Send the police and arrest people. We have to stop 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.680 severely penalizing some people for minor missteps and invest in 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.720 lifting people up from difficult situations. I will need to 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.680 put a pin in that. As we talk about his politics, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.240 it will shock you to hear that he's done exactly that. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.720 He also wrote, the rapidly expanding and secretive use of 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.240 digital surveillance of our community members is unconstitutional and it 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.600 should end. Again. Put a pin in that as we 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.160 get back to discussion of the cameras that we're putting 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.760 on street lights in San Diego. So In a PDF 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.120 of his plan to end homelessness, which has been removed 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.480 from his campaign website but were sank represerved by our 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.560 friends at Voice of San Diego, Gloria wrote, no more 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.560 criminalizing the existence of San Diego's poorest and residents. He 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.760 also told right wing news station KUSI that San Diego 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.120 cannot claim to be America's finest city, or even a 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.760 great city where thousands of people live, unsheltered and dying 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.160 on our streets. It's time to stop the band aids, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.840 the temporary solutions, and bad policy from city hall on 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.600 this issue, he said, As mayor, my administration will prioritize 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.600 ending chronic homelessness. I will focus the city's energy and 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.640 resources on results oriented programs proven to get homeless individuals 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:30.040 off the street, connected to services, and back on their feet. Now, 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.480 to be fair, while it is tru one, is that 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.559 anything Okay, Like any person who was running from mayor 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.520 is a system out could lying to you about what 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.440 they're going to do. The second thing is, if you 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.240 ever hear someone say the words results oriented, it is 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:46.880 time to grab like the largest saber you have and like, yeah, 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:52.079 get to work. Oh yeah, and as we'll discover the 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:57.320 results that he has oriented towards. Somewhat disappointing for folk. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.720 I was going to say for all of us hashtag 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.000 for all of us is his campaign slogan. It's yeah, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.599 it's just it's very cringe and I don't know will it. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.120 It's very sad when we see the impact of this 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.160 for like the least fortune of people in San Diego 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.200 and then like it, it is very funny, but when 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.080 you see how this plays out on the street, So 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.079 it's also very sad. You know what is also very 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:30.360 funny kind of sad mia the coin So yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.080 it's a Ronald Reagan silver coins that pay for my 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:38.840 friends to get hormones so please enjoy these adverts. Thank 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:45.880 thank you Ally Ronald Reagan for funding HRT. Yeah, thanks 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.240 for Ronnie. All Right, we're back and we're talking about 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.599 Todd Gloria, san Diego's mayor, and we've just before the 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.679 break we talked about like his promises, right, so let's 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.319 see how he did on those promises. I want to 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.640 start with January nine, twenty tw one, told Gloria taken 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.800 office a few days before. If you can cost your 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:05.800 mind back, then there have been a significant event at 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.040 the Capitol a couple of days before Proud Boys, theo 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.880 Nazis ether assorted Chuds decided to visit San Diego. Three 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:18.080 days after they visited the capitol, anti fascists assembled shows 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.440 them they weren't welcome, and the police responded by declaring 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.680 the anti Fascis assembly illegal, escorting the Chuds around Pacific 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.120 Beach as they did various crimes, and trying to shoot 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.240 me in the dick with pepper balls. Garrison's just smirking, 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.640 I thought, Gloria, the guy who ran on police reform, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:37.000 had this to say. Mayor Gloria spoke candidly about what 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.440 happened at the Capitol and how that's reverberating around the 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.720 country after seeing what happened in Washington on Wednesday. What 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.520 are you doing out on our streets supporting that mess right, racism, fascism, 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.440 anti democracy? Why would you choose to be out there, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:56.119 Gloria says, despite his feelings, San Diego supports peaceful protests 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:01.400 of all kinds. But on Saturday, police say three people 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.880 were arrested and five officers suffered minor injuries. We're asking 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.240 for the public's assistance and helping us identify some of 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.559 those folks, but we were not able to apprehend yesterday 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:11.960 to make sure that how to account all these are 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.680 people on both sides of the debate, both sides, Yeah, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.840 both sides. So some of you remember some other people 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.040 have caught out people on both sides the debate. So 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.679 I think the most blatant sort of thing he did 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.560 with regards to the police comes after Derek Shovin the 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.480 copy murdered George Floyd was convicted of murder. I guess 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.360 a few you can probably remember where you were that day. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.120 I can remember I was, and it was at the 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:43.559 very least after an entire summer of protest right it 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.600 was like the smallest token instance accountability, but I guess 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.559 at least it was something. And in that moment told Gloria, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.800 who was looking at that same thing that nearly everyone 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.240 was looking at in this country that day. Right. He 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.040 thought about what he wanted to do, and he decided 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.280 that rather than talking to black organizers who have been 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.560 the street for almost a year and have been peppable 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.520 and tear gassed and mace and never stop demanding justice, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.839 he was instead going to call the cops and in 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.320 such many such cases, yeah yeah, and checked out the 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.840 video that the verdict wasn't making them sad. What he 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.280 did was took over the entire police like scanner radio 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.480 thing and delivered a message to the cops, which I've 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.800 got audio of here. Collie. This is Mere Todd Gloriam. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.760 I want to address each and every single one of 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.760 you who nobly serve our great city. Today's verdict is 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.280 just the beginning of building a deeper trust with our community. 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.360 Justice reserved today against someone who does not represent you, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.120 or US, or our department, or who we are as 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.280 a nation. So I want you to hear from me today. 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.520 I know who you are. You are people who helped 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.080 complete strangers on the worst day in their life. You 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.240 are people who believe in collaboration, in community. You're who 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.840 put your lives on the line every single day to 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.200 protect this city. I and the people of sand are 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:11.480 grateful for your dedication and your service. With today's decision made, 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.160 there's now time for all of us to come together, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.240 to heal and to move forward. Please take care of yourself, 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.360 of each other. You know the people of this great city. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.120 Be safe. Everybody. Has anyone ever said the words to 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.959 move forward and not be like not just be an 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.360 absolute dipshit. It sounds like it was written by an 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.160 ai y. Yeah, if you had a chat GPT for 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.839 a liberal mayor, it wouldn't look hugely different to what 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:43.040 liberal mayor's statements. Yeah yeah, chat GPT right, liberal mayor 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.120 writing a ponto the cops. Now it's time to heal 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.840 and come together as a community. Yeah, stop you black 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:55.599 lives mattering. It's it's scary. Yeah. Yeah, it was extremely 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.280 cringe like, especially when you consider how it differs from 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.960 what he was saying just a few months ago. And 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.600 that again, like this was about a man who murdered 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.080 someone and that somebody in it was an STPD who 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.400 killed the person, but somebody in San Diego died in 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:13.040 similar circumstances with someone doing a carotid restraint on them. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.840 A few days before this, Gloria also proposed a budget. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.720 In his budget, he proposed that we cut library hour 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.960 significantly and lay off one hundred and fifty three library employees, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.640 but give the police nineteen million dollars more than a 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.920 previous year. The previous year, I probably don't have to 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:29.760 remind people, is a year in which San Diegans had 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.400 turned up in droves at zoom council meetings to urge 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.400 the city to do the exact opposite of this. Let's 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.880 check in on that surveillance claim he made. You remember 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.840 that he said it was unconstitutional, right, So, on the 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.600 second of this year, told Gloria in a shocking vault 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.320 fast tweeted streetlight cameras and license plates readers can be 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.640 helpful public safety tools. You know, just because he thinks 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.920 it's unconstitution or doesn't mean he doesn't think it's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.920 he's once again been held back from protecting your people, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.200 San Diego by that pesky constitution. The city pass strong 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.320 privacy protections last year and now it's time for at 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.720 San Diego PD to use this technology to keep us safe. 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.480 Public meetings to get this done start soon. So yeah, 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.680 these street lights, they were deactivated in twenty twenty, but 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.320 they had previously been introduced and build us a way 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.520 to assess traffic patterns, but in fact, they never assessed 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:30.240 traffic patterns. Yeah, yeah, this will shock you. They put 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.680 thousands of cameras and microphones on our streets, including one 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:38.120 outside a planned parenthood facility, you know, for traffic. You know, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.200 the funniest part about this, this was literally the thing 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.040 about doing traffic science was this was literally Tom Cruise's 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.720 cover story and like one of the early Mission Impossible movies. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.600 So that's what we have next. Is it fucking scientology 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.680 coming for San Diego. Yeah, it'll it'll shock you to 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.960 hear that we stopped using these for very reasonable people 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.200 had very reasonable concerns in twenty twenty that you know, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:06.800 it's not a good idea for the cops to be 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.360 able to see and hear everything that you do, to 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.080 be able to read your license plate and see everywhere 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.400 that you go. Beton wants some back and if people 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.080 actually want to follow the discussion about having them back, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.280 because every single time, like every single public meeting, there's 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.520 someone and they'll stand up and have a vehement like 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.920 position pro cameras, and then it'll turn out that they 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:32.000 are like a prosecutor at the DA's office, or in 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.400 one instance, there was a prosecutor in one instance who 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.840 insisted he was there in his personal capacity. But like 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.560 the lieutenant for Sauron is defending the surveillance cameras that 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:47.080 are being posted around Middle Earth. Curious this, this guy 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.720 whose name is not Big Brother, is here to advocate 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:54.680 for having cameras in your home. The king of the 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.200 new surveilance for a crash. But he's wearing a a 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.720 fake mustache, so you can't tell who he is. So 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.520 let's look at what he said about stopping criminalizing homelessness, right, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.520 and this is a big, big issue. In San Diego. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.640 We have a massive and growing unhouse population because our 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.160 rents are exceptionally high and our waits are not, so 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.800 the number of unhoused people has increased in the Gloria 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.200 so of death on the street, which hit a record 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.840 of five hundred and seventy four in the county last year. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.160 So that's think it's more than one person dying every 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.000 single day in the streets. Right. He's opened some shelters, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.359 but some scouters are scheduled to close. The shelter beds 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.600 and traditional transitional housing provided have failed to grow at 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.160 the same rate as the young house population. Let's haven't 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.479 stopped him taking photos and claiming every single one. It's 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.520 a huge step forward. We also continue to build what 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.959 it called congregate shelters, which don't give people privacy, right, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.919 which don't give them A lot of people might not 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.560 want to go into a congreate shelter, into effectively a dormitory, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:56.840 and there are a number of reasons why you might 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.919 not want to do that, and yet that's what we're building. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.840 There are also some other sort of single lot composity shelters, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.439 but nowhere near enough. He's been a huge backer of 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.439 something called California's Care Court. Are you guys familiar with 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.359 the care Court at all? No? No, this shit is dystopian. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.480 This could be a whole episode. Maybe one day it 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.919 will be CARE stands for community assistance, recovery and empowerment, 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.679 which I have a feeling that this is not going 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.760 to be about empowerment. Yeah, when it's empowering someone Garrison, 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.880 but it's not empowered to people we might want to empower. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.000 What it is in practice, it's a massive expansion of 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.200 force conservatives ship. So I'm going to quote from Human 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.400 Rights Watch here. Human Rights Watch said the plan promotes 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.800 a system of involuntary coerced treatment enforced by an expanded 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.240 judicial infrastructure that will, in practice simply remove unhoused people 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.159 with perceived mental health conditions from the public eye without 0:18:53.160 --> 0:19:00.120 effectively addressing those mental health conditions. Jesus, Yeah, it's pretty bad. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.480 It's it doesn't provide money for mental health services. It 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.800 takes money that's already existing in the budget and puts 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.800 it across to court mandated treatment. It doesn't provide housing, 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.600 which the multiple studies share that Housing First's approach a 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.000 housing first approach is a way to solve homelessness. Instead, 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.000 it allows for a broad range of people, which include 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.240 family members, first responders including cops and outreach workers, the 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.800 public guardian, service providers, and the director of the county 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.320 Behavioral Health Agency, to refer individuals to the jurisdiction of 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.919 the court to take away their autonomy and liberty. It 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.400 very broadly covers people it describes to having schizophrenia, spectrum 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.840 or other psychotic disorders. Under this system, judges can force 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.359 people into treatment and housing. If they don't comply, they 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.040 can be forced into conservatorship. Now, obviously evidence doesn't support 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.840 the conclusion that involuntary outpatient treatment it's more effective than 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.000 intensive voluntary outpatient treatment, and indeed it does show that 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.040 involuntary coercive treatment is harmful. But it isn't really about 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.120 people with mental health. It's about keeping a house people 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.840 where they can't be seen. And Human Rights Watch claims 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.320 that this violates due process and international human rights conventions. 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.879 And yet the quote Glory and Gavin you some to 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.840 be fair, who I'm sure we'll run for president soon, 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.480 have been cheer leading this and it's I'm surprised it 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.800 hasn't got more press coverage internationally and nationally. Sorry, because 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.960 it's a massive assault on personal freedoms, right, and it's 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.800 extremely easy to effectively say that somebody quote unquote need 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.159 to mental health, help force them into conservatorship. And if 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.639 they're not willing to attend these treatments, so they're not 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.399 able to attend these treatments, so they're not willing to 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.879 go into the housing that they are assigned. Let's say 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.840 that they don't want to live in in congret at housing, 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.040 right or something like that, Or they're in housing with 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.240 someone who they don't feel comfortable or safe with them, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.399 they could be forced into conservatorship and effectively lose all 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.359 their liberty. Right. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's a new 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.440 and exciting way of criminalizing homelessness effectively. And like I said, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.840 it doesn't provide housing, it doesn't provide funding for behavioral healthcare. 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:06.359 It just directs existing funding to court mandated programs. So 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.560 I could pick hundreds of other examples of this tod 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.480 glorious stuff, but I want to pick one more to 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:19.200 focus on, and it's something that I think it gets 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.760 a little bit like inside politics, grifty stuff, but it 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.840 like it has ruined a good number of careers in 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:30.240 San Diego politics. And I'm really heavily indebted to that 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.760 plan certain Voice of San Diego for their reporting on this. 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:39.399 But let's start by talking about public restrooms. So I 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:40.719 think most of us are going to agree that like 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:42.960 having a safe place to shit and wash your hands 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.520 is a pretty basic human right, but in San Diego 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.800 it's something that not everyone has so since two thousand four, 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.240 grand jury reports have warned the city's inadequate public restroom 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.840 infrastructure could become a public health threat. That's what happened 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.320 in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen when a hepatip itis 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.680 a swept through the city, sickening five eighty two people 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:08.359 and killing twenty. So after the heapet, yeah, it's not 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.760 a thing that like you expect, right and like like 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.640 on the left coast in America's find a city. Most 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.840 Americans will not encounter, thankfully, hepatitis in their lifetime and 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.440 sadly made this isn't our only hepatitis outbreak, so that's great. 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:27.359 Oh no, And so after the hep A outbreak, the 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:30.400 city stopped locking restrooms at night, which had done previously, 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.119 but that changed with the COVID pandemic when the facilities 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:37.159 were temporarily closed and some have since not returned to 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.800 twenty four seventh service. Following this, a twenty twenty one 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.720 Shigella outbreak second at least forty one homeless residents, most 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.920 of whom were staying in Central San Diego, further shed 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.680 light on the city's restroom issues. Much as this was 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:52.600 dealt with in a great report by Bella Ross in 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.679 the Voice of San Diego, to which Gloria commented, the 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.600 goal here isn't to add as many permanent public restrooms 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.840 as possible. The goal is to help get unsheltered residents 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.639 off the streets and into safe, sanitary shelter and permanent housing. 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:10.000 Like I don't quite know where he was going for here, 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.520 but not having a place to shit is an everyone issue. 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:18.840 This isn't just an unhoused issue, right, Like everybody poops, 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:21.760 and not all of us live in houses and have 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:26.760 giant offices in city Hall downtown. And so it was 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.960 this bizarre kind of gas lighting approach, like we fundamentally 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:34.560 have an issue with access to bathrooms and to try 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.719 and like reframe this as another issue where he's also failing. 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.359 Was It's kind of indicative of their response, but also 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.600 very bizarre. Where the city has installed new bathrooms, they're 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.240 often installed by private groups as part of development projects, 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:49.760 which is great, right, A good old a public private 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.280 partnership has never gone wrong before. So it will shock 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.119 you to hear that these private groups are responsible for 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.480 maintaining and securing these facilities. And this means that they're 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.560 often a lot. So despite literal human shit being all 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:06.359 over downtown and people are being forced to endure the 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:08.960 massive a dignity of having nowhere to poop. In December 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.719 twenty twenty two, researched by stsu's Project for Sanitation Justice 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:15.399 found that less than half of the city's permanent restrooms 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.840 could be considered truly open access, and that just two 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:22.120 permanent facilities were available around the clock, seven days a week. 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.000 Gloria has later acknowledged that city has an issue, but 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.200 he's chosen to blame residents. I just need folks to 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:32.320 quit acting a fool in these bathrooms. I mean, it's 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.080 not just a homeless population, it's everybody, he said in 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:41.840 an interview. In February twenty twenty three, nearly five years 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:45.560 after the last outbreak, San Diego County again began recording 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:48.640 an uptake and hepatitis say cases, which is great, Right, 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.600 We're back to where we started. Much of this reporting 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:55.040 was met with absolutely unhinged responses on Twitter from some 0:24:55.119 --> 0:25:01.160 of Glorious staff. They called themselves a todd squad that sucks. Yeah, yeah, 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.120 it's pretty bad. So not tour responses come from Dave 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:07.159 Roland who left the old weekly City Beak for a 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:11.919 job in PR and Rachel Lane, who she's tuggs I 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:14.359 think ahead of public relations. She spent June of twenty 0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:17.520 twenty posting about black Lives Matter, whilst also doing volunteer 0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:21.240 public relations to work for the cops. Wow, amazing, Yeah 0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:25.960 yeah here public relations. Yeah yeah, yeah, like there there 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:28.959 there's there's like a there's like a joke on like 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:32.760 there's this like a sort of pejorative label for the okay, 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.280 so on Chinese Twitter, there's this there's a joke of 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:39.680 calling people unpaid five cent army, which is like army 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:42.320 is like or well, the number of sense changes over time. 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:43.919 But it's like there there used to be a thing 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:45.359 where like you could get paid by the government to 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.960 get like like to to to like that you get 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.400 paid pro post to like posts. Wow, whatever fucking shit 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:56.000 the Chinese government wanted to like have posts on. But 0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:00.320 this person's actually literally an unpaid but like actual usually 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:06.240 literally like volume cheer. Yeah, volunteer public relations for the cops, 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:10.760 Like what the fuck is this bullshit? Oh yeah, it 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:18.320 was really a magical public when I sent that PRRA email, Yeah, yeah, 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:21.360 I think she framed it as like helping the community 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.520 and the police talk to one another in a difficult time. 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.600 The future is the giant boot stamping on your faces 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:35.240 when people volunteer to paint the boot. Yes, yeah, yeah, 0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:40.000 yeah it is a rainbow boot. Yeah, I mean you 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:41.880 can you can find their feed. Some of the attacks 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:45.760 on myself and some of my colleagues are like incredibly 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:49.200 petty and unprofessional and also quite nerving when you consider 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:51.879 the huge amounts of taxpair money that are wasted on 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:55.760 their salaries which pay them to post. And again, this 0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:58.679 is a town where people die because they don't have 0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:01.680 a place to take a shit. But but we're paying 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:04.639 people to get into Twitter beef. You know. It's it's 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:07.800 also it's it's also really cool that like the the 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:12.000 sort of two axes of American politics are you can't 0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:14.280 use the bathroom because you're trans, and you can't use 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.719 the bathroom because you don't own one. And then sometimes 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.160 they just coverage and it's the same yeah yeah, yeah, 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:25.399 locking yeah, that's the hands clasping meme locking trans people 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:27.840 out of the bathroom. All right, So now we're about 0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:32.600 to get to Todd Squad's finest hour, which is when 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.720 they use city resources and work time to make a 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.639 video of them singing Return of the Mac. Only it 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:40.640 wasn't Return of the Mac. It was Todd Gloria's back 0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:42.280 and yeah, I'm going to make you all watch it. 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:58.240 So that was that was? Was he walking through a 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.480 city hall? Yeah? Was the first part him walking to 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:06.520 a security line at the airport. Yeah, which is funny. 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.680 That's a security line to get into city hall. Yeah, okay, okay, 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.040 have you have you never been to a city hall before? 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:19.440 Mine didn't have that? Certainly does now Chicago, Yes, it 0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:25.119 certainly has that. Now my local town one didn't. Are 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:27.840 they are they saying that the mayor lied to the city? 0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:32.240 Is that what they're saying? They Yeah, the previous math 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:37.440 Oh the okay, wasn't he the previous mayor? Only for 0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:41.560 a little bit of time then he he was entering Math. Okay, 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:48.120 they're blake. Oh my god, I believe you when you said, 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:53.000 why is on me? One guy? That was like twelve guys. Yeah, 0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.240 it feels like it's gone on for like forty minutes. Yeah, 0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:01.160 if stalin grad there's a point where they come in 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:05.560 dressed as flavor flav but I think it's here and anyway, 0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:07.719 one of them's wearing a medallion that just says Cocks 0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:12.040 on it. The egg Glory is wearing a medallion here 0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:15.000 we can probably no note, hang on here he is 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:24.840 again he said, franchise. That's some cops. What is the 0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:29.200 leg of the ground circle? I think their heads touching. 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:36.360 There's a person with the cocks medallion. Again, this is okay. 0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:39.400 So is one of the worst things that people showed 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:41.600 up with the chain that it was like an SD 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.400 for San Diego. When it first comes on to screen, 0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:52.720 it really looks like a swassica the Padres logos. That's like, yes, 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:58.440 now shitty asked to go. The Padres did a different genocide, 0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:02.440 and it should it be a conflict with the other genocide. 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:06.080 I'm guessing this is like a sports thing or something. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.960 yeah they are the sports ball team. That's what I 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:14.440 thought baseball to be specific. M very proud of him. Yeah, 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:16.760 but yeah, as you'll have noticed, one of the most 0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:23.600 cringe things that has ever fucking happened. Yeah, it's pretty bad, right, 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:28.040 like like it's it's it's pretty crushing when like, like 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:31.520 I have personally known people who have died on our 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:35.320 streets and also my Merria is making return of the 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:40.760 Mac videos dressed as Flavor Flavor. So I think we're 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.800 mostly done. I want to talk about one more thing, 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.400 because no review of San Diego politics will be complete 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:50.560 without a mention of the giant monument to Griff that 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:53.160 is one on one Ash Street? So what is one 0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.800 on one Street? In twenty sixteen, San Diego leased a 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:59.640 downtown high rise hoping to house city employees. It turned 0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:02.520 out that building was riddled with asbestos. And it turns 0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:05.600 out the city knew it is riddled when it started 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:11.400 to lease the building. Yeah. Yeah, And then it will 0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:13.040 shock you to know that they deny this at first. 0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:15.040 But in the agreement to lease to own the building, 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:18.880 it says Bayer acknowledges that the building contained asbestos and 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.440 that SEMPRA has maintained an asbestos monitoring and handling program. 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:25.760 So eventually, in twenty nineteen they managed to move staff 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:30.200 in after a renovation that ballooned in cost. In twenty twenty, 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:34.480 they were forced to evacuate the building because of the asbestos. 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:38.840 Since then, DA's investigation has been opened into Jason Hughes, 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.440 who publicly represented himself as a volunteer advisor to the city, 0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:45.840 according to Voice of San Diego, but unbeknownst to the city, 0:31:46.080 --> 0:31:49.560 collected nine point four million dollars from Cistero, who owned 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:53.880 one on one ashtreet. The City Attorney's office alleged but 0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:58.040 could not prove that the city's former top bureaucrat, Chris Michael, 0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:01.520 ordered City Information Technology Star to purge record tied to 0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:03.920 the one on one as Street debarcle last year so 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:05.960 they can improve that she paid to records. But what 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.240 they do know that she did was pass a confidential 0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:11.040 legal document to Corey Briggs, a candidate for the city attorney. 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:14.880 NBC reported that the memo included a footnote, which Eliot 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:19.120 and others later decried as fabricated. In the footnote, they 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:21.880 claimed that Elliot's office made an effort to shield Gloria 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:23.880 from an outside probe at the one on one Ash 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:27.640 Street debarcle. The footnote suggested an interview with Gloria might 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:30.000 have clarified why the city decided to go forward with 0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:33.040 the Ash Street lease, given Gloria's skepticism about a similar 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:36.320 past deal. So it's not clear if this If this 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.360 footnote was real or fabricated like then it's alleged it 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:46.440 was fabricated, which it's bizarre, like this whole sort of weird, corrupt, 0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:48.560 corrupt thing is resigned. It may this may well not 0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:51.960 be true. To be clear, during this time, Dorian Hargrove, 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:54.720 who was a reporter, obtained some of those records, faced 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.160 legal threat of prosecution from the city attorney and lost 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.000 his job for obtaining those records. So far, the city 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.160 has poured more than sixty million into one oh one Street, 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.960 roughly the same amount of this annual library budget. It's 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:13.680 only occupied the office space. Yeah, it's great, it's absolutely into. 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.680 This has been occupied for like less than a couple 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:19.800 of months for the five years since the city acquired it. 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.280 Are they do? Do? Do do? Do we know what 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:26.640 their ties to like the contractors who are doing the 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:29.840 renovations are, and that will be an interesting thing. I 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:32.160 actually don't know that. Yeah, because that that's like that 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:37.400 that's that's that's like that's the classic Illinois griff. Yeah. 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.200 You just keep keep renovating a building, keep getting donations 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:43.040 from the from the contractors, well or or or the 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:47.360 contractors are just your friends and so that's okay, Yeah, 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:49.640 keep the money around. Yeah, well they're not doing any 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:52.239 more contracting on it here because the city agreed to 0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:54.920 buy the building, which needs one hundred and fifteen million 0:33:54.920 --> 0:34:00.480 million dollars in repairs, for eighty six million last year. Yeah, 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:06.320 it's good stuff. Amazing yep. This week, the UT reported 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:08.720 at San Diego's top real estate official did not seek 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:11.640 input from her staff or a view internal files before 0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:13.440 recommending a city buy out the one or one as 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:17.320 Street lease. They also reported that in a confidential memo 0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:20.919 to the city Auditor's office, anonymous employees wrote, the City 0:34:20.960 --> 0:34:22.719 of San Diego should be aware of the level of 0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:24.920 waste and abuse that is occurring within the Real Estate 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:28.840 and Airport Management Department, which has led to a toxic, hostile, 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:36.720 revenue wasting, and unproductive work environment. Which is great. Yep. 0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:39.960 This is a San Diego we wanted hashtag for all 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:43.640 of us. So this is a lot of inside San 0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:46.040 Diego politics, right. So it's a lot of lists of 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:49.759 things and promises made and promises broken. But I want 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:51.200 to come back to the fact that this is a 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:53.200 guy who ran for Mare on a ticket the push 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:55.919 compassion and a relative liberal set of policies, and he's 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.759 done the exact opposite in his time in office, he 0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.480 ran as a progressive downe very well to differentiate himself 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:04.759 policy wise from mayor's like Republican Kevin Fulkner. Obviously, we're 0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:06.600 just cracking the lid on some of these policies here. 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:09.880 He's consistently chosen to suppund it, to fund and support 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:12.279 the police over the people of the city. He's consistently 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:14.120 moved to make it harder to live on the streets 0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:16.720 and harder to get off the streets, and he's consistently 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.200 chosen photo opportunities over real of governance for the city. 0:35:20.280 --> 0:35:23.600 His pr people spend hours bashing mutual aid workers like 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:25.800 Michael who he had a guest on the show on Twitter, 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.200 and wasting taxpayer money doing it. Just this week, he 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:33.279 welcomed right wing maniac Rishi Sunac, who actually as Prime 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:35.160 Minister of the UK. Despite the fact that people haven't 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:38.680 noticed to our city and San Diego State University researchers 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.640 released a report saying negative interactions with police are driving 0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:44.880 black people who are experiencing homelessness away from services and 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:47.560 housing opportunities. This is what we got from a mayor 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:49.759 who positioned himself as a progressive and as governed as 0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:53.600 a Rainbow Republican. So yeah, that's I would say. That's 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.400 all I have to say about Todgloria. If you follow 0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:58.000 me on Twitter, you'll know that it's not the case, 0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:00.480 and I will continue to have more to say about Gloria. 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:04.960 But yeah, it's really sad. It's deeply sad. And like 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:09.280 I said, it's funny. The crnty Mutic music video is funny. 0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:13.319 We'll linked to it in the show notes, but it's 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:16.440 it's also really deeply troubling that this has real impacts 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:18.560 for real people who are already down on their luck 0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:22.960 and you know, living on the streets or experiencing you know, 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:26.200 over aggressive policing. All the things that he said he 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:29.160 would fix have just got worse. And yeah, it sucks. 0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.080 So thanks for listening to me why and about my 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:36.279 city everyone, And yeah, again, my apologies for traumatizing you 0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:39.839 further with that video. It's fine. Next week. Next week, 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.480 we're well okay. So we would have been doing Chicago's 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:48.240 own version of this exact same person, which is Lloyd Lightfoot, 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:50.920 except to the surprise of absolutely zero people who live 0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:53.320 in Chicago and everyone who doesn't live with Chicago, Lightfoot 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:57.200 didn't make it out of her fucking primary. So we're 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:01.360 Insteady Gore be doing Chicago's once in future while not 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:05.280 once potentially future mayor Paul Vallas, who absolutely sucks ass. 0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:08.200 So stay tuned for that in another week when I 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:11.400 get a yell about Paul Vallas and inflict some truly 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:14.399 horrific bullshit on all of you. Very excited to get 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:17.640 my revenge. All right, well, I would look forward to 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.640 seeing Paul Vallas's hip hop video. Carriston's just sitting there 0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:26.279 background of dying. This is this is, this is worse 0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:28.920 than anything anything the Daily Wire can throw at me. 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:37.640 Should we just pivot to more come content? Garrisons, Okay, 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:39.759 this has been naken. Happen year. You can find us. 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:42.560 It happened here pot on Twitter, Instagram. But we're gonna 0:37:42.640 --> 0:38:01.360 leave before one of us dies. Hello and welcome. It 0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:04.840 could happen here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:12.560 andrewism and today I'm joined by Miya and care Hello. Hello, Hello, Hello, 0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:17.160 and I want to talk about cities because I very 0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:20.319 recently published a video on Sulapunk City Planet. I mean, 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:22.840 I don't know what you're all going to hear this podcast, 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:27.520 but I did recently publish it, and you can check 0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:30.040 that out of my channel. And I thought i'd share 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:33.520 a bit about a bit more about one particular historical 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:36.280 urban planet movement that I talk about in that video, 0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:42.600 and that is Ebanez A. Howard's Garden Cities movement and 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:48.680 his book Garden Cities of Tomorrow. Are all familiar with either, No, 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:57.080 I don't think so. Yeah, so Ebane's a Howard side note, 0:38:57.080 --> 0:38:58.520 by the way, I don't know who looks at a 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:03.640 child and names them Ebanez Howard. But he presented this 0:39:03.680 --> 0:39:07.480 idea of the garden city concept in eighteen ninety eight 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:11.360 in a book called Tomorrow, A Peaceful Path through Real Reform. 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.520 Later he republished in nineteen or two under the name 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:18.600 of Garden Cities or Tomorrow, And take notes in the 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:21.680 title of the book of the use of reform and 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:25.760 peaceful path because it does highlight a noticeable lack within 0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:30.040 Howard's vision that will discuss later. He wants to provide 0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:33.319 access to the benefits of both town living and a 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:36.279 country living. As he describes, a town and country are 0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:39.920 like magnets drawing people to them, you know. So, according 0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:45.320 to him, town offers vibrant society and opportunity and transportation, 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:48.840 but it lacks the beauty of nature. It has pollution 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:51.680 and has crowded, it has disease. I mean this is 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:57.280 Victoria and era cities. He's talking about place what stink. 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:02.520 In contrast, country and country offers the space and the 0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:06.520 beauty of nature and it's abundance, but it lacks society 0:40:06.560 --> 0:40:09.080 and it can feel isolated and it really spread out. 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.520 So you wanted to create a hybrid of both concepts, 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:16.680 a third magnet of town country the combined the benefits 0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:21.080 of both. I believe the secret Sorry I have to help. 0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:24.680 I've jump in here and make a secret secret thing. Yes, yes, 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:29.520 thank you, yeah, country, but a secret third thing. We 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.400 fulfilled our we fulfilled our contractual obligations. One joke. All right, 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:38.759 I'm going to side optical, Andrew, you take it from here. So, yeah, 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:41.080 a secret third thing. How I would believe that the 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:45.640 ideal living conditions for people of all economic backgrounds could 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:49.600 be created by establishing these town country cities with very 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:58.680 specific parameters run by strong government institutions. In Ebenezer Howard's context, again, 0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:02.719 no offense to the Ebanese as the world, but jeez, 0:41:02.760 --> 0:41:06.160 I can't. I can't let go of those amplications. I 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:08.600 think I think we need to bring back the name Ebenezer. 0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:11.680 Actually it's it's it's been too long since I've seen 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:15.279 an infant named Ebenezer, meaning I've never seen one. I 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:19.520 think I feel like we should see more. Just absolutely absurd. 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.360 All the timing names. What do you what do you 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.520 call the baby? Do you call them ebby or something like? 0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.480 How do you call the baby Ebenezer? The baby's name? 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:33.000 Why would you you call it the baby's name? You 0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:36.120 could call it Niza, you could eventually call it weezak 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:43.120 horrible nickname is awful? Oh yeah, that is okay. I'm 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:45.960 here on the amplications. I do never I never want 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:51.120 to hear that again. Yeah, I digress Howard's writing. I 0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:53.960 just gonna call them Howard Howard's Rights in Journey Industry 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:58.800 Revolution was in response to well, the industrial Revolution, you know, 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:02.040 his response to the urban slums, the pollution, the lack 0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:05.160 of access to the countryside, and much of his book 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.319 is dedicated the idea that cities as they existed in 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:12.200 his time were not sustainable in the long run. By 0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:15.360 the middle of the nineteenth century, over half of Britain's 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:19.400 population lived in towns, and in nineteen hundred that proportion 0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:23.760 had resuned over three quarters. But English towns and cities 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:29.239 presented social environmental problems of an unprecedented scale, and much 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:31.880 of Britain's history in that period could be connected with 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:36.480 the efforts to ameliorate the frightening conditions that a lot 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:40.360 of people lived in. When it comes to the design, 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:44.839 Howard wanted to create these highly structured, carefully laid out 0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:50.239 communities to provide the best conditions possible for every kind 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:53.759 of person he saw. He wanted to put just like 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:57.680 large areas of land from aristocratic owners as a setting 0:42:57.719 --> 0:42:59.880 up garden cities that would house up to thirty two 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:04.720 thousand people in individual homes on six thousand acres. And 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:09.880 that whole vision of individual homes is I think it 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:12.959 belies a limitation the imagination there, but it's it's someone 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:16.839 understandable considering the historical conditions of the time where people 0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:23.239 were living in these overcrowded slums and stuff. And the 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:25.439 dream was really to have a home of your own 0:43:25.800 --> 0:43:28.440 that you didn't have to crowd out, it didn't be crowded, 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:31.920 you couldn't have to share with others. But anyway, I 0:43:31.920 --> 0:43:34.800 think a sustainable city should trade the sprawl that single 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:39.200 family homes generate for more dense development. For the most part. 0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:44.120 That is, but I digress once again. That's not all 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:48.680 his plan entailed. His garden cities would also include a 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.680 huge public garden with public buildings like a town hall, 0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:57.960 lecture halls, theaters, and a hospital. An enormous arcade called 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:03.320 the Crystal Palace, not arcade as video game, where residents 0:44:03.360 --> 0:44:07.200 would browse a covered market and enjoy a winter garden, 0:44:08.480 --> 0:44:18.800 neighborhoods with cooperative kitchens and shared gardens, schools, playgrounds and churches, factories, warehouses, farms, workshops, 0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:22.920 and access to a train line. In its ideal form, 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:26.880 the garden city would become a network of smaller garden 0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:31.600 cities built around the larger central town. The idealized vision 0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:35.520 of the garden city contained very specific utopian elements, like 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:41.160 small communities planned on a concentric pattern that woul accommodated housing, industry, 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:46.480 and agriculture, surrounded by green belts that would limit their growth. Now, 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:49.120 there's a diagram that he did up for his book 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:53.200 that has been popularized that represents like a sort of 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:57.120 a concentric circle design, but he didn't believe that that 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:01.320 necessarily had to be the shape of the garden city. 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:04.320 He still wanted the city to be adapted to local 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:10.359 layout somewhat, and these elements of garden city design were 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:16.000 all into dependent you know. He wanted strong community engagement, 0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:20.440 he wanted community ownership of land. Although he wasn't a socialist, 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:24.960 mind you. He was a Georgist. Oh god, wait, that 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:28.800 explains it. That explains so much about all of his politics. 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:32.640 Of course he was a Georgeist. Yeah, quite an interesting 0:45:32.719 --> 0:45:39.560 crew of characters. He wanted mixed ten years homes and 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:44.120 homes and types that were generally affordable, you know. To 0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:47.040 go on another digression, I find Georgis Owe to be 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:55.279 such an interesting fixation of a philosophy. It's like, you know, 0:45:55.280 --> 0:46:00.560 looking all the problems in society, and you know what, 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:06.640 we need a land tax. That'll salt thing. I mean, 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:09.320 obviously that's something. All it is to the to the 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:15.399 that political philosophy, that economic approach. But I just found 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:17.000 I just find it every time I think about it. 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:20.880 I find it funny that it was just really like 0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:28.920 the whole movement was basically this one like um tax proposal. 0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:35.919 It's really that was the whole focus of it. Yeah, 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:39.160 it's really funny too because it has one of the 0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:44.799 sort of largest like collapses of any ideology ever. Like 0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:46.600 this is like it was just a very like very 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:49.200 it was. It was a big It was a big ideology. 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:54.400 You know. It literally helped to develop the the board 0:46:54.480 --> 0:46:56.520 game Monopoly, you know what. It's like, it was a 0:46:56.600 --> 0:46:59.480 huge thing. This is something I've actually been looking into 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:01.040 a lot of it. I've been trying to track down 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:03.719 some of the original like nineteen twenties copies of Monopoly 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:07.480 that's more based on the second game. Yes, I've been 0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:10.560 trying to find the ones that were like pre pre 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:15.000 pre Parker Brothers UM, and I've I've I found I 0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:16.759 found a few a few. I found a few like 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.680 two months ago, but before I could order them, it 0:47:20.400 --> 0:47:22.440 was sold to somebody else on eBay. So I've been 0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:26.120 trying to track down another another one in the U 0:47:26.520 --> 0:47:28.120 in the past two months, and it's been a bit 0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:33.640 more challenging, just because I'm kind of a Monopoly freak. Yeah, 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:38.919 it's um. It's really interesting to see how um that 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:45.000 game was developed and then changed over time, and how 0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:48.799 hasbur was stepped in. Isn't Hasbro Poker Brothers without stepped in? 0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:56.560 And did there do so I'm kind of basically rewrote 0:47:56.600 --> 0:48:03.160 with the history of the board game entirely. Yeah, but anyway, 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:08.479 elements to the garden city strong community engagement, communitytionship with land, 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:12.160 mixed tenure homes, homes in type so generally affordable, a 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:16.040 wide range of local jobs with easy commuting distances of homes, 0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:20.240 well designed homes with gardens combining the best of town 0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:24.200 and country, and green infrastructure that enhances a natural environment 0:48:24.520 --> 0:48:28.640 with strong cultural, recreational and shopping facilities in addition to 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:35.480 integrated and accessible transportation. It's not all sunshine and roses, though. 0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:40.440 I mean you could look at the sort of the 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:47.279 cream washing elements of the garden city design, and even 0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:50.000 in the time they were criticized. I mean, they were 0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:53.520 praised for being an alternative to the overcrowed industrial cities, 0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:57.200 but they were also criticized for damage in the economy, 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.560 being destructive to the beauty of nature, and being in convenient. 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:06.560 You know, they weren't able to be Furthermore, because they 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:10.520 had this sort of top down design philosophy, they weren't 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:18.160 able to truly reflect the natural and organic developments of 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:22.600 a town or a country, you know, so secretly thing 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:26.760 couldn't do either other things that the original two stuff 0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:31.880 could do. And then of course you have the mustached 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:36.280 man himself, Marie book Chin, stepping in in the limits 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:41.440 of the city to evaceorate the idea of the garden City. 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:48.480 He talks about how howards scheme was basically a system 0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:52.880 of benevolent capitalism that presumed to avoid the extremes of 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:58.640 communism and individualism, and as a result, his entire book 0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:04.360 was quote permeated by an underlying assumption. So typically British 0:50:04.520 --> 0:50:07.359 that are compromised going to be struck between an intrinsically 0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:11.840 irrational material reality and a moral ideology of high minded 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:19.000 conciliation microsh Yeah, I feel like the most brutal part 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:24.120 of that is just the typically British like, yeah, I 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:28.280 mean anything learning. Look at really the plan that Howard had, 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:31.760 you know, the offices and industrial factories and shopping centers 0:50:31.800 --> 0:50:35.320 that he intended to provide the Garden city with. Those 0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:40.840 spaces are battlegrounds of conflicting social interests. You know, there's 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:45.000 alienated labor, their income differences, their disparities of work, time 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:49.480 and free time. All that conflict is not addressed just 0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:54.839 because you make a pretty city. You know, there's no 0:50:55.080 --> 0:50:59.080 resolution to the problems created under a capitalist factory office 0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:02.719 or shopping center to just because you have a nice 0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:07.600 transit system and a green belt. I feel like some 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:10.319 of some of these same problems crop up on some 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:12.879 of the solar punk stuff online as well. I mean 0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:16.040 we've an attacked him definitely greenwashing throughout the solar punk 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:18.440 aesthetic and stuff. But yeah, I mean it is it 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:23.080 is an interesting, an interesting, interesting aspect that keeps propping up, 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:26.719 and it's just intriguing that it like dates back over 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:32.120 a hundred years ago, like this same exact thing. Yeah, exactly, 0:51:32.960 --> 0:51:37.560 and funny enough, you know, his garden cities. We even 0:51:37.640 --> 0:51:43.200 fallen short of utopias that were thought of before his time, 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:48.080 you know, like I'm not even just utopias, but also 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:53.680 actual historical political experiments that you know, try to address 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:58.520 various social problems, you know, like unlike the Greek polis, 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:03.240 which had some basis of face to face democracy, Howard 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:08.000 just had a central council and a department structure based 0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:14.440 on elections, Unlike in Thomas More's utopia, there's no proposal 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:21.480 for rotating agricultural and industrial work. Unlike the Paris Commune 0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:26.160 of eighteen seventy one, which was established long before Howard 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:30.799 wrote his book, he had no sort of incorporation of 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:36.040 that sort of political experimentation in the garden city development. 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:40.760 The criticism really is how superficial a lot of Howards 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:43.600 ideas are, right, Like, there's just a lack of social 0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:51.120 analysis analysis in fear of just design. Yeah, Georgism, Like 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:54.200 sure it would probably be like better than what we 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:57.840 have now. Well yeah, but but it by no means 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:01.439 like fixes all of the systemic issue. It's like Amsterdam, right, 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:07.719 I would rather have capitalism while riding a bike. But 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:11.520 Bookchin also talks about how these communities do not encompass 0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:15.960 the full range of possibilities a human experience. Again quote 0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:21.680 because you know Bookchin is Loki a boss. Right, Neighborliness 0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:25.880 is mistaken for organic social intercourse and mutual aid. Well 0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:29.759 manicured parks for the harmonization of humanity with nature, the 0:53:29.840 --> 0:53:32.799 proximity of workplaces for the development of a new meaning 0:53:32.840 --> 0:53:36.040 for work and its integration with play. An eclectic mix 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:39.480 of ranch houses, slab like apartments, and bachelor type flats 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:44.200 for spontaneous architectural variety, shopping, marked plazas in a vast 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:48.520 expanse of lawn for the agora, lecture halls for cultural centers, 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:54.239 hobby classes for vocational variety, benevolent trusts, so municipal councils 0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:59.160 for self administration. One can add endlessly to this list 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:02.600 of misplays. Criteria for community that save to off your 0:54:02.640 --> 0:54:07.880 skate rather than clarify the high attainment of the urban tradition. Indeed, 0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:12.799 the appearance of community serves the ideological function of concealing 0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:19.480 the incompleteness of an intimate and shared social life. Again, boom, 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.040 you know, and people are brought together. You know, they 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:25.279 have all these conveniences in these pleasant trees, but they're 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:31.320 still culturally impoverished. They're still atomized, they still deal this 0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:36.799 stark reality of capitalism in the spaces that they're they're 0:54:36.800 --> 0:54:40.600 gonna inevitably spend most of their day at work. Like 0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:43.719 it's nice that the city is well designed, but how 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:45.160 much of it are you going to get to see 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.120 if you still have to go to work for eight 0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:51.600 hours plus a day. I mean, if there anything at 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:53.719 least you know, the commune will probably be shorter, but 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:56.799 that's about it. And that's if you get a job 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:00.960 in the city itself. This is interesting because in some ways, 0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:04.680 the invention of the suburb in the in the years 0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:07.960 after this kind of tried to solve for this issue 0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.439 while also just doing it in an incredibly racist way. 0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:14.400 Like you can you can you can see the invention 0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:16.680 of the suburb of trying to create these little nestled 0:55:16.719 --> 0:55:22.120 communities but also getting away from the the the urban center, 0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:26.000 which was seen as this like scary place full of 0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:29.480 people who were non white. So you have like this 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:32.920 white flight thing that developed this notion of the suburbs, 0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:36.920 which in some ways kind of does this, but in 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:41.400 a in a much worse way. Actually, it makes it 0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:43.160 makes the idea of the garden city look like a 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:46.759 much better alternative to what the suburbs did. And it's 0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:49.040 it's just interesting that even the version of this that 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.080 got implemented was just done in a way that it's 0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:56.320 so much more dystopian and depressing. Yeah, I mean, and 0:55:56.480 --> 0:55:59.879 Booked Chin addresses that that comparison to the suburbs as well. Right. 0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:03.600 He says, in the best of cases, the new towns 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:07.839 differ from suburbs, primarily because job commuting is short and 0:56:07.960 --> 0:56:11.480 most services can be supplied within the community itself. In 0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:15.520 the worst of cases, they are essentially bedroom suburbs of 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:19.840 the metropolis and add enormously to its congestion during working hours. 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:23.160 I can't, I can't believe book beat me to the 0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:29.759 punch on this one. I'm devastated. This is the first 0:56:29.760 --> 0:56:32.920 time booktions ever has has ever has ever beaten me. 0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:39.120 This is this is this is really terrible. So but 0:56:39.760 --> 0:56:42.680 despite some of these flaws and criticisms, how it was 0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:45.960 passionate about his idea, all right, I mean he published 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.120 the books. He also organized like he's actually he's not 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:52.560 sitting on Twitter, right, He's actually doing something about his ideas. 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:56.319 So he organized this Garden City Association in eighteen ninety 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:59.480 nine in England to promote the ideas of social justice, 0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:03.560 economic efficiency, beautification, health and well being in the context 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:09.799 of City Planet. That Garden City Association later became the 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:13.680 Town and Country Planet Association, which still exists to this day. 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:16.360 Women played a very active role and continue to play 0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:19.480 very active role in the organization. I mean, as Howard 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:23.800 says himself in his book, Women's Influences Too often ignored 0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:28.920 here that ladies this guy's are feminist. But when the 0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:31.880 garden city is built as a chokey will be woman's share. 0:57:31.880 --> 0:57:33.760 And the work we found to have been a large one. 0:57:34.120 --> 0:57:40.480 Whomen are among our most active missionaries. And so he's 0:57:40.520 --> 0:57:46.120 doing some Abdullah now that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's 0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:52.520 liberating life, you know. But yeah, the TCP in the 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:56.920 Town Country Planet Association has continued to campaign for a 0:57:56.920 --> 0:58:00.680 new generation of garden city is based on modern modern 0:58:00.720 --> 0:58:05.720 Godden City principles. They will cross sector and government influence 0:58:05.800 --> 0:58:09.640 policy and legislation. There is awareness through guidance and training. 0:58:10.240 --> 0:58:16.800 They promote affordable homes and inclusive, healthy and climate resilient places, 0:58:17.760 --> 0:58:20.520 and they try to create texta world barriers, opportunities and 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:25.840 practical solutions necessary to make new garden cities a reality. 0:58:26.160 --> 0:58:30.720 They also are genuinely interested in empowering people to have 0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:34.000 a real influence over decisions about the environments and to 0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:37.680 secure social justice within in between communities, or at least 0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:44.240 that is what their website says. Outside of the TCPA, 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:49.440 the idea of godden city definitely sort of rooted itself 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:52.920 and urban planning and the urban planning tradition and it 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:55.920 did sort of feed into this rise of green spaces 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.320 within urban landscapes that we now find around the world. 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:04.919 The concept of the garden city is definitely still revisited today, 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:11.000 but it's considerably different from the original idea. It's also 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:13.760 taken the garden city as an inspiration, as an esthetic 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:20.480 inspiration to create greater integration between urban areas and green spaces. 0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:26.960 In his time though, going back to the late nineteenth 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:31.360 and early twentieth century, Howard was a successful fundraise again 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:34.000 he was trying to get things going. In the first 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:36.920 years of the twentieth century. He built two garden cities, 0:59:37.040 --> 0:59:41.640 Letchworth Garden City and Welwyn Garden City, both in Hertfordshire, England, 0:59:43.280 --> 0:59:48.520 and both still exist today. Letchworth was an originally quite successful. 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.520 It was first you know, an ancient parish from like 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:57.040 the left hanth century and remained a small rural village 0:59:57.040 --> 0:59:59.640 and so the start of twentieth century when the land 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:02.560 was purchased by a company called First Garden City Limited, 1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:08.600 which was founded by Howard and supporters, and they went 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:14.880 on to establish the United Kingdom's first roundabout the Solar 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:20.200 Shot Circus. A lot of urban like park land and 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:25.800 open spaces, including a green space named after Howard called 1:00:25.800 --> 1:00:32.200 Howard Park. But after Howard's passing, the first Garden City 1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:35.280 Limited was sort of taken over in nineteen sixty and 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:41.120 the company so it changed how the town was managed. 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:46.560 The residents of the local council kind of lost, some 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:52.280 say the original Garden City ideals were reduced, and the 1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:57.240 corporation eventually became for the first the company created a 1:00:57.280 --> 1:01:01.360 corporation transferred ownership to the corporation which is now called 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:04.280 the lech Withth Goden City Cooperation, and then that cooperation 1:01:04.360 --> 1:01:07.320 was replaced by a charter will body in the nineteen 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:11.080 nineties called the lech Withth god Cy Heritage Foundation, which 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:13.760 continues to own and manage the estate to this day. 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:17.560 Letchworth was a sort of an interesting experiment. The people 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:21.280 who were founded, who helped to found that town, were 1:01:21.400 --> 1:01:28.439 very much otherworldly as some people would describe them. They 1:01:28.440 --> 1:01:33.480 for example, they had some people describe them as health freaks. 1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:39.360 They actually voted on a band to set against the 1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:44.160 selling of alcohol, a ban on the selling of alcohol 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:49.240 in public premises. Oh boy, so which is I mean 1:01:50.160 --> 1:01:55.160 for a British village? Right? In the early nineteen hundreds 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:59.800 to vote against having a pub. Unheard of, right, they 1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:04.600 eventually create a pub. That pub didn't serve any alcohol. 1:02:05.480 --> 1:02:10.400 Bumber bumber, hate to see it. Yeah, but lat truth 1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:13.680 was still like a real pioneer, you know. It's approached 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:16.720 to blend in. Town country was used in the Australian 1:02:16.800 --> 1:02:21.320 capital Canberra, in hell Rao, in Germany, in Tapanila and Finland, 1:02:21.320 --> 1:02:24.280 and in Messa parks in that field, and of course 1:02:24.440 --> 1:02:28.120 in the other Garden City well win how I had 1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:30.400 arranged for that land to be purchased by a company 1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:36.000 called Second Gardain City Limited, real creative there. And first 1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:39.880 they were gonna call them the City Digs. Well, but 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:42.640 a couple days later they changed their mind, probably because 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:48.040 they realized as a dumb name. And then I wasn't 1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:50.000 gonna say anything, but yeah, that's not that's not a 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:53.640 great name. Yeah. And so the town is laid out 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:56.120 along these tree line boulevards. It's sort of a new 1:02:56.200 --> 1:03:00.480 George and town center. Um. There's a lot of ass 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:04.520 out of parks, as to be expected. And the planners 1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:07.800 had intended to create the Guarden City to have like 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:12.160 one shop called well Wind Stores, which is basically a 1:03:12.240 --> 1:03:17.160 monopoly that all the residents were expected to shop at. Lastly, 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:19.520 I think I want to bring up one final inspiration. 1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:21.480 I was about to one on whether I would include 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:23.000 this one or not, but I said, you know what, 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:26.360 I might be entertaining and I might want to talk 1:03:26.360 --> 1:03:32.480 about it further in the future. A certain character by 1:03:32.520 --> 1:03:39.120 the name of Walt Disney. Oh no, this is Epcot. 1:03:39.240 --> 1:03:42.400 This is this is this is the experiments or prototypical 1:03:42.480 --> 1:03:48.080 city of tomorrow. Yes, this is the Florida Project. Oh no, 1:03:48.480 --> 1:03:55.240 Disney's Epcot was designed in concentric circles with radius. This 1:03:55.360 --> 1:04:02.240 is this is the worst job scare. Oh, but it 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:05.240 should be noted, or rather it should be expected that, 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:11.520 unlike Howard, mister Disney envisioned having a lot of personal 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:14.280 control over the day to day management of life in 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:19.680 his city. So really, Epcott was only loosely inspired by 1:04:19.680 --> 1:04:25.320 Howard's idea of combining the populace with industry. Um. This 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:30.600 city would have had a hotel at the center with 1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:34.479 more than thirty stories and a convention center. There would 1:04:34.480 --> 1:04:38.280 be an internationally themed town center. Um. There would be 1:04:38.280 --> 1:04:44.160 a mega mole. There would be themed restaurants, shops, and attractions. 1:04:46.200 --> 1:04:51.840 There would be a monorail, Yeah he was. He was 1:04:51.880 --> 1:05:00.840 a car free community advocate of Disney. Yeah. Like, his 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:05.640 plan was that nobody would drive in Epcot. Delivery trucks 1:05:05.640 --> 1:05:09.400 and other autobiles and other automobiles that needed to enter 1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:12.920 the city were to be kept underground. So it's kind 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:15.040 of like a fusion of Ebone's ah what an elon 1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:20.680 musk that sucks? That sucks. Yeah. Also, this city would 1:05:20.720 --> 1:05:26.320 be climb a controlled with a glass roof. Yes, I mean, 1:05:26.760 --> 1:05:29.880 And it's funny because like he couldn't even do this properly, 1:05:29.920 --> 1:05:32.480 Like he couldn't even build this instead instead of got 1:05:32.560 --> 1:05:36.720 turned into like a like a like a bare skeleton 1:05:36.760 --> 1:05:39.920 of what his original plan was because Epcot will failed 1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:42.520 in so in so many ways, the reason being that 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:45.960 he ended up dying right Yeah. Yes, like even on 1:05:46.000 --> 1:05:49.040 his deathbed he was still sketching up designs for Epcot, 1:05:49.080 --> 1:05:52.320 so he never really got to implement it. Pro life 1:05:52.320 --> 1:05:59.200 Dictator dies anyways. Yeah. Actually, like the actual like living 1:05:59.240 --> 1:06:03.960 communities in in Disney World Florida are are so different 1:06:04.440 --> 1:06:08.480 and in many ways they're they're just like another suburb um, 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:15.160 except you're in a suburb owned by Disney. Yeah, yeah, 1:06:15.200 --> 1:06:17.720 and I mean it's gonna be a peek into what 1:06:17.800 --> 1:06:20.640 life would have been like on the Epcot. Right. Your 1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:24.480 home would have been pre fabricated and modular. Certain materials 1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:26.880 and technologies could be tested as soon as they were beable. 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:29.600 By the way, why they have nothing against free fab homes, 1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:32.960 I think they could be very useful. Um, But Disney's 1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:35.120 idea was basically, your home is pre fab so that 1:06:35.240 --> 1:06:37.880 any time he wanted to install an update on it, 1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:42.360 he could. It's great, you know, like the entire city 1:06:42.520 --> 1:06:44.960 was basically like a guinea pig for any technologies he 1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:51.680 came up with. Um, And so he wants to really 1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:54.480 retain absolute control of the city, like they wouldn't even 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:59.120 own anything. Disney alone would own the land so that 1:06:59.200 --> 1:07:01.840 he and his success, says, can make updates and changes 1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:05.400 without ever being snowed down by this pesky thing called 1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:09.760 citizens votes and rights and all that. It's funny because 1:07:09.960 --> 1:07:12.800 this is actually now under attack by Ron de Santis 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:18.280 in Florida. The sovereignty of Disney may like change a lot, 1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:22.919 and I think already stripped it. Yes, But but but how 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:25.840 this plays out in actuality as yet to be determined. 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:28.360 But it is funny that this is actually like this 1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:32.120 is a very very recent thing, Like it's just like 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:34.959 a week or so. But see what we can see 1:07:35.000 --> 1:07:38.560 here is one of the inevitable transitions as as as 1:07:38.560 --> 1:07:41.440 we saw in British colonial rule in India, which is 1:07:41.480 --> 1:07:44.960 that direct corporate rules always replaced by injurrect corporate rule 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:49.600 via the state. Yeah for know which, Yeah, it's in 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:53.080 some ways. We will probably learn that it was better 1:07:53.120 --> 1:07:57.120 to live under Disney than Ron de Santis. But that's 1:07:57.200 --> 1:07:59.920 not saying much. Next time he opens up a disun 1:08:00.040 --> 1:08:07.120 this wild No, no, it's just it's just it's literally 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:12.960 just like eighteen gipmo exhibitions. Oh lord, I mean Descenter's 1:08:13.000 --> 1:08:18.439 world will just be the United States with descent potential election. True, 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:21.800 sad but true. But let me tell you a bit 1:08:21.800 --> 1:08:24.719 more about EPCOT. Right, if you were eighteen or older, 1:08:25.240 --> 1:08:29.040 you have to have a job. Also, you don't get 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:33.680 to retire. Nobody is allowed to retire. You only get 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:38.680 to stop working if you either die or leave amazing 1:08:41.080 --> 1:08:46.679 one way out. Also, he and reason being, he believed 1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:50.240 this would prevent slums or ghettos from foreman in any 1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:53.320 part of his magical city because I mean, if everyone 1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:56.160 has a job, then nobody will be struggling to pay 1:08:56.160 --> 1:08:58.960 rent or eat. Right. Funnily enough, of course, a lot 1:08:58.960 --> 1:09:01.519 of Disney workers today can't afford to pay rental eat. 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:09.640 But hey, the theoretically everybody in Epcot would have their 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:14.640 basic needs met also, though in exchange for that, they 1:09:14.680 --> 1:09:17.400 wouldn't have any privacy because Epcott was also supposed to 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:20.280 be like a tourist attraction. You know, you look outside, 1:09:20.280 --> 1:09:23.120 you win new, and tourists are like looking inside, you 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:29.240 win new. That was a thing that was Epcott, thankfuley 1:09:29.360 --> 1:09:33.439 doesn't it wasn't fully implemented. I mean, some people have 1:09:33.520 --> 1:09:37.360 said that Singapore is like a dystopian city state run 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:40.760 by Disney. But we could talk about that another time. 1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:47.639 That's a basic rundown on garden Cities past, present and future. 1:09:49.439 --> 1:09:52.480 The idea of it, I think was, you know, notable, admirable, 1:09:52.840 --> 1:09:57.439 good effort, but flawed um and because it lacked a 1:09:57.520 --> 1:10:03.160 strong ideological foundation, economic foundation, an analysis that took into 1:10:03.200 --> 1:10:07.720 account the contentions speak within society that uh, you know, 1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:13.720 manifests in the urban landscape. And I think it's a 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:17.040 clear oneing that for solo punks and for any people 1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:18.760 who are interested in urban planet as a whole. That. 1:10:20.160 --> 1:10:23.679 You know, aesthetics is not everything, design is not everything. 1:10:23.760 --> 1:10:27.760 You know, they asked me some some meat to those, Um, 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:31.080 let's say some meats underneath that flesh. It's a really 1:10:31.080 --> 1:10:36.040 weird analogy. But yeah, yeah, no, but like yeah, the 1:10:36.080 --> 1:10:39.960 principle of Okay, I'm just gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna 1:10:40.000 --> 1:10:42.200 abandon the Walter Benjamin thing I was gonna do there, 1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:47.280 but no, try it, keep keep going, keep Benjamin thing 1:10:47.280 --> 1:10:49.439 I have. I haven't. I haven't actually read any of 1:10:49.439 --> 1:10:53.000 his stuff in like five years. But one of Benjamin's 1:10:53.040 --> 1:10:55.839 things was when politics is sort of displaced, you're converted 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:59.719 into aesthetic, it becomes fascism. So don't do that. In fact, 1:10:59.760 --> 1:11:02.600 have actual politics and not simply reduce your politics to 1:11:02.680 --> 1:11:08.840 an esthetic or to aesthetics, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, true, true. 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.759 All right, Well that's it for me. You can follow 1:11:12.760 --> 1:11:15.519 me on YouTube dot com slash Andrewism, on Twitter at 1:11:15.560 --> 1:11:18.360 and his School of Saying True, and on picture dot 1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:23.200 com slash Andrewism. You can find us at happen here, 1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:26.920 pod or cools on media, on Twitter and Instagram. Um, 1:11:26.960 --> 1:11:30.320 and you can find me tweeting about my desire to 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:34.080 understand the mechanics of how Disney World operates at Hungry Boutie, 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:54.360 mostly on Twitter. Yeah, welcome to Dick. It happened here 1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:57.519 the podcast that I am a Wong occasionally hijack talk 1:11:57.520 --> 1:12:04.000 about Asian American stuff, and you know, some some so 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:10.439 some some pretty interesting Asian American stuff happened, which is that, Yeah, 1:12:10.520 --> 1:12:14.439 there was a sort of massive sweeping cultural victory question 1:12:14.479 --> 1:12:18.840 mark for the Asian American community TM when everything ever 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:23.280 we're all at once did. Okay, I'm getting conflicting sources 1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:25.839 about exactly the record that I said at the Oscars, 1:12:25.840 --> 1:12:28.360 but it won seven Oscars, did very well. Everyone is 1:12:28.439 --> 1:12:33.080 very happy. Um. Yeah, So I decided that I was 1:12:33.120 --> 1:12:35.200 going to use this to talk about some other stuff 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:38.320 that is related to it, and with me to talk 1:12:38.360 --> 1:12:43.160 about many things, including sort of the family in patriarchy 1:12:43.200 --> 1:12:48.479 and Asian American culture and media. Is Tiffany Yang, a 1:12:48.640 --> 1:12:51.559 filmmaker from New York. Tiffany Welcome to the show. Hi, 1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:55.360 thanks for having me on, Thanks thanks for being on. Um. 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:59.520 So we were for trying to figure out how precisely 1:12:59.560 --> 1:13:04.720 we want to sort of start this because you know, 1:13:04.920 --> 1:13:07.240 there's a lot of sort of angles you can take. 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:09.160 I think that the thing that I want to start 1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:12.360 with is well, like a okay, everything, every All it 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:14.960 wants is a very good movie in a lot of ways. 1:13:15.000 --> 1:13:17.439 And I think it's sort of it's kind of the 1:13:17.479 --> 1:13:23.360 apotheosis of a structure of Asian American media that I've 1:13:23.360 --> 1:13:26.680 I've talked about before on this show. Um that I'm 1:13:26.680 --> 1:13:30.880 gonna I'm gonna run through a brief explanation of what 1:13:30.960 --> 1:13:35.360 this is. So something that I, yeah, I've talked about 1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:38.240 a bit before that that I think about a lot 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:42.639 is the way in which Asian American media has been 1:13:43.360 --> 1:13:47.719 It has a basically a structural form. It has there's 1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:52.080 a very specific story or set of story structures into 1:13:52.080 --> 1:13:54.200 which anything you're trying to tell has to be fit 1:13:54.920 --> 1:13:57.519 and and that that series of things is okay. So 1:13:57.640 --> 1:14:00.439 you have a small business, you have you have a 1:14:00.439 --> 1:14:02.760 bunch of immigrants that come to the US or that 1:14:02.800 --> 1:14:05.240 they are well usually they're already in the US and 1:14:05.240 --> 1:14:07.120 they're trying to run a small business and they're having 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:09.360 these issues sort of integrating into into sort of like 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:13.799 a wide American society, and there's some kind of conflict 1:14:13.840 --> 1:14:16.360 in the family, and the TV show or the movie 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:23.240 is about like resolving this sort of conflict. Um. Yeah, 1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:26.400 And I think Everything Ever All at Once is like 1:14:26.560 --> 1:14:29.280 the best version of this that we've ever gotten in 1:14:29.320 --> 1:14:32.559 a lot of ways. But you know, and something I've 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:34.760 talked about in a certain New Year's episode is that 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:39.880 there's something about I guess Asian American like the way 1:14:39.880 --> 1:14:42.760 our sort of political culture works that makes it so 1:14:42.840 --> 1:14:45.880 that this is the only story that we tell. And 1:14:45.960 --> 1:14:47.200 you know, I mean you can look at a lot 1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:49.559 of the sort of like, sorry, I've been rambling for 1:14:50.000 --> 1:14:51.080 a lot, but I want to get this out of 1:14:51.120 --> 1:14:55.920 the way before you go further. But you know, like 1:14:56.000 --> 1:14:57.840 there there's a lot of movies that are like it's 1:14:57.840 --> 1:14:59.639 like you know, shows like Fresh off the Boat, like 1:15:00.000 --> 1:15:05.800 and Fist is also sort of like almost literally this, right, um, 1:15:06.360 --> 1:15:08.920 Like Turning Red is sort of like an emblematic example 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:11.080 of sort of thing that is exactly this, Like Fresh 1:15:11.120 --> 1:15:14.400 off the Boat is basically this, right. I think part 1:15:14.439 --> 1:15:16.759 of the sort of there's a kind of ideological shell 1:15:16.840 --> 1:15:21.920 game happening here that's about the family. Everything Ever, All 1:15:21.920 --> 1:15:24.280 at Once has a lot of similarities. The Crazy Rich 1:15:24.320 --> 1:15:27.839 Asians in ways that are kind of not immediately apparent. 1:15:28.320 --> 1:15:31.120 I have finally reached the point TM, but which is 1:15:31.200 --> 1:15:34.720 that both everything everywhere all at once in Crazy Rich 1:15:34.760 --> 1:15:38.000 Asians ends in exactly the same way, right, which is 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:43.040 the the like the the sort of family tension that 1:15:43.080 --> 1:15:44.800 has had been sort of building up and playing out 1:15:44.840 --> 1:15:48.360 throughout the entire movie, like is resolved and everyone sort 1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:50.920 of goes back to being a family. And this is 1:15:51.040 --> 1:15:55.439 interesting specifically for Crazy Rich Asians because in the original, 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:59.280 like in the book version of this story, the family shatters. 1:15:59.120 --> 1:16:01.879 The plot of that movie is this this Asian American 1:16:02.680 --> 1:16:07.280 girl is dating like this guy who's from Singapore who 1:16:07.280 --> 1:16:10.400 has not told her that he's from like an unbelievably rich, 1:16:10.720 --> 1:16:14.800 like Singaporean family, and the story is about him going 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:17.160 about them going to Singapore and realizing that this guy 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:19.839 is unbelievably rich and that his family is just assholes 1:16:20.040 --> 1:16:23.880 who suck And in the book, like the family like 1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:25.840 mistreats both of them really badly, and so they just 1:16:25.960 --> 1:16:27.479 leave and they book it and they cut they cut 1:16:27.520 --> 1:16:31.559 off the rich family. But in the movie they some 1:16:31.640 --> 1:16:37.120 weird thing happens where like the the main character plays 1:16:37.280 --> 1:16:41.200 Ma Jung with the guy's mom and like a miracle 1:16:41.200 --> 1:16:44.960 occurs in the family works out and everything everyone wants. 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:47.360 How's a very similar sort of thing where like the 1:16:47.640 --> 1:16:49.479 way this movie ends, and I would just say this, 1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:51.040 like I do, I do like this movie a lot, 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:55.560 but the way that it ends is Evelyn, who is 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:58.400 Joy's mom, walks up to her and says, you're fat, 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:01.639 and I don't like that. You gotta tattoo. But also 1:17:01.720 --> 1:17:06.000 the family is good and like we should work it out, 1:17:06.000 --> 1:17:09.960 and then they do, like a baricle occurs, and there's 1:17:10.000 --> 1:17:13.000 this sort of running ideology in this which is that 1:17:13.120 --> 1:17:16.639 like the family is sort of sort of too big 1:17:16.680 --> 1:17:20.120 to fail, like you're you're not allowed to have a 1:17:20.240 --> 1:17:22.200 a movie that's about something that's not about the family, 1:17:22.320 --> 1:17:25.360 or be a movie where you know, like the end 1:17:25.400 --> 1:17:27.479 of it is the people walk away from their family 1:17:27.479 --> 1:17:31.840 because it's hurt them a lot, right. And I will 1:17:31.840 --> 1:17:37.040 also say that sort of Asian American cultural production that 1:17:37.160 --> 1:17:39.679 doesn't center the family, it actually just doesn't get read 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:44.080 as being Asian American, right, like I think, I um, 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:49.320 I don't know if you've seen this, but like Being 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:53.720 View has this beautiful documentary called Minding the Gap and 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:57.479 it's about like his trauma and his like sort of 1:17:57.640 --> 1:18:01.680 youth growing up in a broken home and hanging out 1:18:01.720 --> 1:18:05.479 with skateboarding friends, some of whom are like black, and 1:18:05.720 --> 1:18:08.880 that just never gets talked about as an Asian American film, 1:18:09.360 --> 1:18:12.960 even though it's made by an Asian American filmmaker, and 1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:16.519 his experience as like someone who actually migrated from China 1:18:16.600 --> 1:18:20.599 is such a big part of his story, Like, because 1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:24.200 it's not about the sort of family conflict and reconciliation, 1:18:24.240 --> 1:18:27.120 it actually doesn't get read as an Asian American film 1:18:27.160 --> 1:18:30.000 a lot of the time, which to me is interesting. 1:18:31.960 --> 1:18:35.240 And yeah, I just wanted to second your point that 1:18:35.439 --> 1:18:38.439 like in both of these films, everything everywhere, all at 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:42.680 once and crazy rich Asians, like nothing actually changes. You know, 1:18:42.720 --> 1:18:46.000 there's the reconciliation within the family, but nothing about the 1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:50.200 family structure changes. Like I think Evelyn her the sort 1:18:50.240 --> 1:18:53.200 of like conciliatory gesture she gives is like, oh, I'm 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:56.160 your mom, and I would always choose to be with 1:18:56.240 --> 1:18:59.040 you in any universe. I forget, like the exact praising 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:02.439 it's been a while since I yea, it's something like that. 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:04.760 It's like, you know, I would still want to be 1:19:04.880 --> 1:19:09.640 with you because I'm your mom. And it's like this 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:17.280 very um the families is its own explanation. Yeah, and 1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:21.800 I think it points to sort of this is the 1:19:21.840 --> 1:19:25.160 movie that I think hit the exact limit of this 1:19:25.240 --> 1:19:27.479 kind of of this kind of sort of Asian family 1:19:27.520 --> 1:19:31.680 politics because in it in in it's in in the 1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:34.400 sort of like moment where it needs to justify itself, 1:19:35.080 --> 1:19:40.080 it can't. It doesn't have anything. The moment's it's sort 1:19:40.080 --> 1:19:42.519 of it's it's it's it's it's empty of an actual 1:19:44.080 --> 1:19:48.440 like it's it's empty of any sort of like ideological 1:19:48.479 --> 1:19:51.680 message about why this should be redemptive, right, like just 1:19:51.760 --> 1:19:53.920 you know, and and I think this is something that 1:19:54.000 --> 1:19:58.880 like we don't think about enough, which is that like 1:19:58.880 --> 1:20:02.160 like okay, if if if your mother hurts you like 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:05.120 a lot, right, like them being your mother is not 1:20:05.200 --> 1:20:08.160 a redemptive thing. I mean, this is something I've been 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:11.960 thinking about a lot in the context of sort of transness, 1:20:11.960 --> 1:20:16.400 and you know, and in the ways that like trans 1:20:16.439 --> 1:20:19.200 people like i mean literally get killed by their families, 1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:21.840 in the ways that they get you know, kicked out 1:20:21.880 --> 1:20:28.280 from their families, and the ways that sort of this 1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:32.519 this this sort of self justification of it's good because 1:20:32.560 --> 1:20:35.519 it is right that like the relationship. Yeah, this is 1:20:35.560 --> 1:20:37.680 sort of what you were saying, right, is like it 1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:39.800 justifies itself by just like, well, I am your mother. 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:45.200 It's like, well that's not an argument, right, yeah, right, 1:20:47.000 --> 1:20:49.479 and it's not enough. Like I think Joyce spunds the 1:20:49.520 --> 1:20:53.200 whole film like fighting to be seen by her mom, 1:20:53.640 --> 1:20:56.599 and in the end, her mom doesn't really give any 1:20:56.640 --> 1:21:03.800 reason why she loves Joy, Like there's nothing like specific 1:21:03.840 --> 1:21:06.040 to Joy herself as a person. It's just like you're 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:09.519 my daughter, I'm your mother. Of course I love you. Um. 1:21:10.320 --> 1:21:14.240 And you know, like why should that be something a 1:21:14.320 --> 1:21:19.120 queer child settles for, like just this very basic baseline 1:21:19.120 --> 1:21:22.960 of acceptance rather than anything that like actually celebrates who 1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:26.920 they are as an individual. Yeah, and that's something that 1:21:27.080 --> 1:21:29.080 I also wanted to talk about with this is like 1:21:30.680 --> 1:21:32.400 and this this is not just like the specific thing. 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:34.160 You know, we're talking a lot about the specific movie 1:21:34.200 --> 1:21:36.080 because this is like the most recent one that's come out, 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:39.720 and and we're not sort of saying this to like 1:21:39.720 --> 1:21:41.760 like there is a lot of like good stuff in 1:21:41.760 --> 1:21:45.439 this movie, Like this is the movie like like Joy 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:48.200 is probably the character who is like closest to me 1:21:48.320 --> 1:21:52.880 who I have ever seen in anything at any point, right, 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:55.559 and like there was something, you know, sort of incredibly emotional, 1:21:55.600 --> 1:21:57.240 like I cried a lodger in this movie that was 1:21:57.280 --> 1:22:01.439 like incredibly emotional about it, you know, like seeing yourself 1:22:01.439 --> 1:22:05.040 in it, Like yeah, yeah. But there's something about the 1:22:05.080 --> 1:22:08.599 way that Asian Americans, like especially sort of like cysaid 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:12.560 Asian Americans, think about queerness that that I think is 1:22:12.880 --> 1:22:16.759 is you see in this movie, which is that. Okay, 1:22:16.800 --> 1:22:19.200 so this movie has two queer relationships in it, right 1:22:19.560 --> 1:22:22.040 unless you're going to count like the guy in the Raccoon, 1:22:22.400 --> 1:22:27.760 which it's funny, but I don't know about that one. 1:22:29.160 --> 1:22:32.479 But right, but but you know, the actual like the 1:22:32.600 --> 1:22:36.160 actual two sort of like queer relationships are between Joy 1:22:36.280 --> 1:22:39.759 and her girlfriends and then between Evelyn and the tax lady. 1:22:40.800 --> 1:22:43.240 And there's two things that are interesting about that. One 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:45.360 is that both of the both of the characters they're 1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:48.800 in relationships with are white and very and this this 1:22:48.880 --> 1:22:51.320 is a visit like something that's very very specifically like 1:22:51.439 --> 1:22:56.439 pointed out about Joy's girlfriends, and you know, you know 1:22:56.520 --> 1:22:58.439 that's the joke is like, well, she's half Mexican, but 1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:01.120 She's played throughout the entire hier thing as like an 1:23:01.120 --> 1:23:05.559 outsider who like doesn't understand what's happening in this sort 1:23:05.560 --> 1:23:07.880 of scenes, like doesn't understand the family dynamic, doesn't doesn't 1:23:07.920 --> 1:23:12.040 understand his knees and you know, and you see this 1:23:12.040 --> 1:23:14.320 again with Okay, so who who have like you know, 1:23:14.360 --> 1:23:19.439 they're able to imagine a world in which, like Evelyn, 1:23:19.479 --> 1:23:21.800 the main character who has like just been homophobic this 1:23:21.920 --> 1:23:24.200 entire movie, is in a queer relationship and like, yeah, 1:23:24.240 --> 1:23:27.479 like I good for her. But if you look at 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:30.639 who it's with, right, it's it's the character in the 1:23:30.640 --> 1:23:34.439 movie who is this tax lady who her thing is 1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:37.920 that she is like like she she she she is 1:23:37.920 --> 1:23:40.600 like the human representation of the sort of white supremacists, 1:23:40.600 --> 1:23:44.719 like capitalist bureaucracy that is, you know, attacking this family 1:23:44.760 --> 1:23:47.120 and is sort of like driving these people into the ground. 1:23:47.160 --> 1:23:53.000 And then she's sort of redeemed by by like love 1:23:53.040 --> 1:23:56.000 and queerness. But there's this way that queerness gets positioned, 1:23:56.000 --> 1:23:59.360 this outside of asianness, by the way that like the 1:23:59.479 --> 1:24:02.040 by the way that the only possible crew relationship that 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:04.360 they can imagine is with a white person, as you know, 1:24:04.439 --> 1:24:11.280 as someone who's explicitly marked as an outsider, right, Yeah, 1:24:11.360 --> 1:24:14.600 I think that's a really good point. Like queerness, It 1:24:15.520 --> 1:24:20.599 queerness is like attached to these anxieties over assimilation. Yeah, 1:24:22.200 --> 1:24:25.599 from the perspective of like the older generation like evaln 1:24:25.680 --> 1:24:28.559 and Gong Gong is like the fear of them being 1:24:28.560 --> 1:24:33.400 assimilated too much into this Western culture um, which is 1:24:33.439 --> 1:24:38.599 just a very it's it's very strange to me that 1:24:38.600 --> 1:24:40.559 this is the thing that keeps coming up in like 1:24:40.640 --> 1:24:47.160 Asian American narratives and discourses because obviously like Asian like 1:24:47.240 --> 1:24:51.080 Asian queer cinema in Asia is like such a powerful 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:54.439 cultural force, and the film makes all these one car 1:24:54.520 --> 1:24:56.960 why references, and I feel like one car Hi has 1:24:57.040 --> 1:24:59.599 made like one of the greatest works the cru cinema 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:04.519 Happy Together um of like recent decades. And so it's 1:25:04.560 --> 1:25:09.880 just it's so strange, um how Creus is being positioned 1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:12.800 as like an external threat. And I mean, like you know, 1:25:12.880 --> 1:25:15.080 you you could you could take a sort of like 1:25:15.080 --> 1:25:16.360 like the if you if you want to do the 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:19.160 lib analysis of this, like China has had queer rulers 1:25:19.640 --> 1:25:23.559 like there has there has the West produced one, like 1:25:24.200 --> 1:25:29.120 maybe I possibly at some point maybe but like, you know, 1:25:29.200 --> 1:25:32.400 like it's kind of like it's ideologically frustrating, right, like 1:25:32.640 --> 1:25:35.280 like you know, you can fall back on the like 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:37.479 we know that, like we have records of where people 1:25:37.520 --> 1:25:40.320 in China for like five thousand fucking years, right, Like 1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:44.040 it's you know, but like I think, I think what's 1:25:44.120 --> 1:25:48.080 really interesting about this is that this is something that's 1:25:48.120 --> 1:25:51.120 seen as so natural that people writing like even like 1:25:51.120 --> 1:25:55.000 like Asian American like writers writing about the film don't 1:25:55.000 --> 1:25:56.920 even notice it, like they just they just sort of 1:25:56.960 --> 1:26:03.400 passively reproduce it. Yeah, And I don't know, I think 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:07.439 it's like I mean, it's deeply frustrating, like being an 1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:12.360 Asian queer person, because this is something that like, you know, 1:26:12.760 --> 1:26:19.240 the the kinds of right wing nationalism that like are 1:26:19.360 --> 1:26:21.640 like they you know, like there's a different kinds of 1:26:21.640 --> 1:26:23.559 sort of Chinese nationalism, right that will make that will 1:26:23.560 --> 1:26:25.720 make this like explicitly make the same argument that like 1:26:25.800 --> 1:26:28.599 gay people are like a like a sort of like 1:26:28.720 --> 1:26:29.920 I mean, I guess they would have they would have 1:26:29.920 --> 1:26:31.519 said it was borgewab, but now it's a sort of 1:26:31.560 --> 1:26:36.400 like decadent Western like imposition onto the like onto the 1:26:36.400 --> 1:26:39.360 world of Asia. But it's like like no, but then, 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:41.280 but then, but you know, you you get these like 1:26:41.360 --> 1:26:47.519 sort of like very well credentialed, like progressive like Asian 1:26:47.560 --> 1:26:51.480 American writers who are just either implicitly or almost explicitly 1:26:51.520 --> 1:26:57.920 making exactly the same argument. Yeah. Yes, And it's also 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:01.320 what the American right wing thing right like they want 1:27:01.439 --> 1:27:06.519 to China as like if you know, China represents this 1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:09.799 like sexual threat of having like the society where everyone 1:27:09.920 --> 1:27:12.720 is in their place, you know, like they imagine that 1:27:13.200 --> 1:27:16.360 these sort of like traditional gender roles are much more 1:27:16.840 --> 1:27:19.880 adhered to in China, which is why it's like we're 1:27:19.880 --> 1:27:24.080 on the decline, like China's rising. So it's yeah, it 1:27:24.200 --> 1:27:28.120 is a very weird idea that nationalists on both sides 1:27:28.160 --> 1:27:33.439 are attached to. And it's disappointing that UM Asian Americans 1:27:33.479 --> 1:27:36.120 who think of themselves as progressive or even radical kind 1:27:36.160 --> 1:27:40.280 of reproduce this unthinkingly. Yeah. I mean one of my 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:44.120 like recent black Pill moments was I don't know if 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:47.400 people remember this, um, but there were there, There was 1:27:47.439 --> 1:27:49.839 there was someone on Twitter who very kind of famously 1:27:49.920 --> 1:27:57.040 got like just like obliterated for saying that. I first, 1:27:57.120 --> 1:27:59.880 for saying that like people people shouldn't like canceled. There's 1:27:59.880 --> 1:28:02.760 a scription to the New York Times after they like 1:28:02.880 --> 1:28:05.320 did the whole thing. They did this whole bullshit that 1:28:05.520 --> 1:28:07.479 a few people don't know what the sort of scandal was. 1:28:07.640 --> 1:28:10.640 So the a bunch of people who'd written for The 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:13.840 New York Times sent them a very very bild letter 1:28:13.960 --> 1:28:17.240 saying like, hey, can you guys like fix some obvious 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:19.439 like like not even saying fix, like can you report 1:28:19.479 --> 1:28:22.760 on trans issues better here? Or some like glaring short 1:28:22.800 --> 1:28:25.200 of mistakes that you made in New York Times through 1:28:25.240 --> 1:28:28.720 a hissy fit and got really mad at them and 1:28:28.720 --> 1:28:31.160 and you know this, this person's reaction was like, oh, 1:28:31.160 --> 1:28:33.519 well you can't you like don't cancel your subscription, like 1:28:33.920 --> 1:28:35.360 you have to support the news. And it was this 1:28:35.520 --> 1:28:37.200 like sort of moment and she she is one of 1:28:37.200 --> 1:28:39.000 the hosts of like one of the big progressive ation 1:28:39.040 --> 1:28:41.720 American podcasts, and it was like it was just you know, 1:28:41.760 --> 1:28:43.400 for me, it was just really sort of like black 1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:46.400 pilling moment of like, oh, this is like this is 1:28:46.400 --> 1:28:49.920 like what like like you know what like like three three, 1:28:50.120 --> 1:28:51.920 three seventy five a month. It is what these people 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:56.840 think my life is worth. Like yeah, I don't know, 1:28:57.439 --> 1:29:00.879 I think This kind of ideological stuff is very deeply 1:29:01.000 --> 1:29:04.840 tied into the way that Nasian Americans have been representing 1:29:04.880 --> 1:29:08.080 and thinking about. The family said of recent years, and 1:29:08.280 --> 1:29:11.400 but but, but but before before we go into that, 1:29:11.880 --> 1:29:13.760 do you know when the family is trying to sell 1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:16.880 you it is it is the products and services that 1:29:16.960 --> 1:29:21.000 supported this podcast. We have to take an ad break. 1:29:21.080 --> 1:29:25.360 We will be right, okay, Miah, just out of just 1:29:25.439 --> 1:29:28.920 out of curiosity, since I don't have the pleasure of 1:29:28.960 --> 1:29:31.320 listening to the ads while we're recording, Like what is 1:29:31.360 --> 1:29:34.280 going to play during that? I have no idea, Like, 1:29:34.439 --> 1:29:36.240 it could be anything. I don't know. It could be 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:38.360 a gold ad, it could be the f While we 1:29:38.400 --> 1:29:40.680 haven't had the FBI tried to do it yet, we've 1:29:40.680 --> 1:29:43.679 had We've had we've had law unfortunate agencies. We've had 1:29:43.840 --> 1:29:50.760 people selling gold Ronald Reagan coins. We've had so I 1:29:50.800 --> 1:29:53.519 don't think I've seen that, like since I was a child. 1:29:53.560 --> 1:29:58.040 I think they used to have like television commercials. Yeah, 1:29:58.080 --> 1:30:00.840 they do it on podcast now. Apparently a thing that 1:30:00.880 --> 1:30:06.960 I discovered when people sent me thelyp so who look 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:09.320 like maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe they'll do a Thatcher 1:30:09.400 --> 1:30:12.759 one and you two can own the the immortal words. 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:14.960 There is no such thing as society. There is only 1:30:15.000 --> 1:30:24.200 individuals in the family. Yeah. Wow, well whatever it takes 1:30:24.240 --> 1:30:30.360 to keep the podcast running. Yeah, so all right, something 1:30:30.400 --> 1:30:34.240 I wanted to sort of circle back to is, you know, 1:30:34.520 --> 1:30:36.920 I think one of the one of the sort of 1:30:39.400 --> 1:30:45.000 one of the things about this kind of Asian American media. 1:30:45.400 --> 1:30:50.439 You know, you have this this sort of ambivalence of like, like, 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:54.600 who what the sort of queer child is supposed to be? 1:30:55.840 --> 1:30:57.880 And you know, like I would say this like it 1:30:58.080 --> 1:31:00.840 is a pretty common experience if you are like a 1:31:00.920 --> 1:31:04.559 queer child of an Asian family that your family does 1:31:04.600 --> 1:31:09.240 fucked up shit. Do you like that's a thing? Um? 1:31:10.720 --> 1:31:13.479 And this is I wanted to ask you about something 1:31:13.520 --> 1:31:16.000 that you've been talking about that I'm sort of interested in, 1:31:16.080 --> 1:31:22.519 which is one of the things that I don't know 1:31:22.520 --> 1:31:24.920 when you trying to talk about this stuff. There's this 1:31:25.080 --> 1:31:30.280 way in which the way we sort of collectively think 1:31:30.280 --> 1:31:32.280 about when I say we this is like I guess 1:31:32.320 --> 1:31:34.800 like a kind of specific Asian American thing, the way 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:38.880 we think about trauma gets involved very quickly. Yeah, And 1:31:38.880 --> 1:31:42.600 I was wondering if you talk about that some more. Yeah, 1:31:42.720 --> 1:31:45.720 I feel like there's this there are these sort of 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:51.360 like unspoken discursive rules where when you talk about trauma 1:31:51.479 --> 1:31:57.080 within an Asian immigrant family, there are like, first of all, 1:31:58.080 --> 1:32:01.559 it's always intergenerational trauma, right Like you can't talk about 1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:05.639 like a queer child experiencing trauma without then like getting 1:32:05.680 --> 1:32:10.560 into the fact that, oh, like the parents have experienced 1:32:10.600 --> 1:32:14.920 traumatic things like through the process of immigration or like war, 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:19.080 the refugee experience, etcetera, etcetera. And so there's this sort 1:32:19.080 --> 1:32:23.840 of like economy of trauma where some members within the 1:32:23.880 --> 1:32:28.120 family get their trauma treated as more legitimate and others don't. 1:32:28.200 --> 1:32:31.720 I think it's like really common to hear this refrain, 1:32:31.880 --> 1:32:36.439 which is like, oh, um, second generation immigrants are like 1:32:36.560 --> 1:32:41.280 the you know, people like US Asian immigrant children who 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:46.080 were born in the West can't possibly know that like 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:49.800 the real trauma that our parents or grandparents went through 1:32:50.560 --> 1:32:53.160 because they were the ones who like fled their countries 1:32:53.320 --> 1:32:58.200 or experienced war firstand or grew up in poverty. But 1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:02.280 then it's also just like when we talk about eight 1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:12.599 intergenerational trauma, um, there's this sort of like obfuscation of 1:33:13.040 --> 1:33:15.720 who is enacting that trauma within the family, right Like 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:20.320 if the intergenerational trauma exists, like who is passing it down? 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:23.240 And so I don't I don't know if I'm articulating 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:27.479 myself well on this, but um, yeah, I guess the 1:33:28.640 --> 1:33:35.479 essential ideas that I think there's this like mechanism which 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:41.880 kind of um immediately delegitimizes any talk of abuse or 1:33:41.960 --> 1:33:48.280 trauma from the perspective of um Asian youth or from 1:33:48.320 --> 1:33:51.280 the perspective of like the child in the family. Yeah, 1:33:51.320 --> 1:33:54.320 and I think I think that's a kind of I 1:33:54.360 --> 1:33:59.080 don't know, there's just really baffling, deep unwillingness in a 1:33:59.080 --> 1:34:01.320 lot of ways to think about And I think this 1:34:01.400 --> 1:34:05.720 is a sort of broader like cultural thing too. But 1:34:06.080 --> 1:34:08.640 there's just deep unwillingness to think about the family as 1:34:08.640 --> 1:34:11.639 a side of violence and as a side of sort 1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:13.680 of profound violence. It's like, you know, like it's the 1:34:13.760 --> 1:34:17.600 place where the violence that shapes you comes from in 1:34:17.880 --> 1:34:20.479 a lot of cases. And I mean, like, I know 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:21.760 a lot of people this has happened to you, has 1:34:21.760 --> 1:34:25.960 happened to me to some extent, And there's this real 1:34:26.200 --> 1:34:28.120 kind of you know, this is what this is what 1:34:28.160 --> 1:34:31.040 I actually really liked about everything everywhere, all at once. 1:34:31.080 --> 1:34:35.160 It's like it like goes into that in a lot 1:34:35.240 --> 1:34:39.200 of ways, Like it is a movie for about ninety 1:34:39.320 --> 1:34:42.200 nine tenths of the movie. It is a movie about 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:45.719 how like the people around like how how the people 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:49.200 in your family can hurt you repeatedly, and about the 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:51.920 sort of like the ways that they think about it, 1:34:52.000 --> 1:34:54.920 the way but you know, there's there's but but but 1:34:54.920 --> 1:34:56.559 but but I think this is where this sort of 1:34:56.560 --> 1:35:02.840 perspective thing comes into it where like, yeah, we're I think, 1:35:02.880 --> 1:35:07.800 like we don't really have a language to sort of 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:11.160 talk about this stuff, and the way the film deals 1:35:11.200 --> 1:35:14.240 with it is sort of like you know, is is 1:35:14.920 --> 1:35:17.559 this kind of like very specific kind of nihilism, which 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:19.280 is like definitely a thing that you can fall into, 1:35:19.439 --> 1:35:21.439 right like you know, like that like that that is 1:35:21.479 --> 1:35:26.200 definitely a reaction to being traumatized. But it's seen as 1:35:26.960 --> 1:35:30.479 like illegitimate and world destroying I think in a lot 1:35:30.520 --> 1:35:33.600 of ways because it causes you to sort of like 1:35:33.760 --> 1:35:35.800 if if that's your experience of the family, like you're 1:35:35.840 --> 1:35:38.360 going to leave or you're going to or you're only 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:39.920 going to stay in by force, and so you know, 1:35:40.040 --> 1:35:41.760 the movie sort of rejects it. But but you know 1:35:42.000 --> 1:35:45.760 there's this way that it's very difficult to talk about 1:35:45.800 --> 1:35:48.519 this stuff and about the sort of like long arc 1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:53.120 of how people have thought about the family before us. Right, 1:35:53.800 --> 1:35:56.599 what's an example of what you mean by like how 1:35:56.680 --> 1:35:59.439 people have thought about the family before us? Well, I 1:35:59.720 --> 1:36:02.240 think I think in the Chinese context in particular, there's 1:36:02.280 --> 1:36:05.439 a very there's like there's I mean, if you look 1:36:05.479 --> 1:36:09.920 at what was happening in in the sort of rat 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:13.080 like in the in the sort of very radical periods 1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:15.920 in Chinese history in the last you know, if you 1:36:16.040 --> 1:36:17.599 like last sort of hundred years, you look at sort 1:36:17.600 --> 1:36:19.240 of what's going on in nineteen twenty five, if you 1:36:19.240 --> 1:36:23.320 look at what happens immediately like after the Chinese Revolution, 1:36:23.400 --> 1:36:26.439 like there is a real period of like questioning, questioning 1:36:26.439 --> 1:36:29.920 patriarchal authority, of questioning like what is the family for? 1:36:30.439 --> 1:36:33.960 Like why why are we doing this? And you know, 1:36:34.120 --> 1:36:35.599 I think I think the answers they came to were 1:36:35.640 --> 1:36:37.640 ultimately unsatisfying, which is that like, well, we need the 1:36:37.680 --> 1:36:42.280 family around because like we we are, our economy does 1:36:42.280 --> 1:36:47.640 not function without uncompensated labor. So the maoists sort of 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:50.679 like attempt to grapple with this fails. But I don't 1:36:51.479 --> 1:36:54.759 like as as as as with many things that Maoism 1:36:54.800 --> 1:36:57.000 attempt to grappled with, I don't think they were wrong 1:36:57.080 --> 1:36:59.400 to look at it. I think their solutions were all terrible. 1:37:00.960 --> 1:37:04.040 But I think there's this kind of I mean, there's 1:37:04.080 --> 1:37:07.559 this reaction. There's there's a kind of older Asian queer reaction, 1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:10.479 which I think is like kind of deeply suspicious of 1:37:10.520 --> 1:37:15.200 the family, as you know, this thing that has an 1:37:15.360 --> 1:37:18.559 enormous amount of potential to sort of inflict violence on 1:37:18.640 --> 1:37:20.920 you and sort of de stabilize your life and cut 1:37:20.960 --> 1:37:27.479 you off from resources and information. I mean, I was 1:37:27.479 --> 1:37:32.080 struck by someone else making this comment about how like 1:37:32.200 --> 1:37:35.479 in everything everywhere, all at once, you know, they can 1:37:35.520 --> 1:37:40.080 imagine like this sort of infinite um number of universes, 1:37:40.080 --> 1:37:44.559 but in every single one, the family unit remains the same. Um. 1:37:45.360 --> 1:37:49.599 You know, like the social arrangement never changes across all 1:37:49.600 --> 1:37:54.160 of these different universes. Um. Yeah, I thought that was 1:37:54.840 --> 1:37:58.960 a really good point. Um. There's just like the sense 1:37:59.000 --> 1:38:02.400 in which a lot of the recent Asian American culture 1:38:02.479 --> 1:38:06.400 can't imagine the family as like something that can be transformed. 1:38:08.040 --> 1:38:10.519 It just kind of takes it for granted as this 1:38:10.640 --> 1:38:15.120 like static eternal structure which can't be challenged, and people, 1:38:15.320 --> 1:38:18.680 if they find reconciliation or happiness, it needs to be 1:38:18.880 --> 1:38:26.760 somehow within that same arrangement. Yeah, And I think a 1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:33.559 lot of that has to do with like the thing 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:37.840 that we've decided about elders collectively, which is another one 1:38:37.880 --> 1:38:44.320 of those things that like is like the legitimacy of 1:38:44.360 --> 1:38:47.600 the authority of elders is something that in Chinese revolutionary 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:50.200 history is something that's very much up for debate, and 1:38:50.640 --> 1:38:54.080 almost everyone who decided to like take up arms against 1:38:54.080 --> 1:38:57.000 the state, like almost all of those people were like, 1:38:57.080 --> 1:39:01.880 this is messed up. And then you know, I think, 1:39:01.920 --> 1:39:07.439 I think partially as a result of how badly sort 1:39:07.439 --> 1:39:09.880 of the Maoist project goes, and then also I think 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:16.120 as as as a kind of like explicit part of 1:39:16.200 --> 1:39:20.720 state policy, there's this way in which that kind of 1:39:20.760 --> 1:39:23.599 authority gets reinscribed and any sort of questioning of it 1:39:23.640 --> 1:39:25.680 gets gets looked at as like, oh or like a 1:39:25.760 --> 1:39:31.400 return to sort of like Maoist egalitarianism or whatever. Which 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:33.719 the thing that I see a lot in the ways 1:39:33.800 --> 1:39:37.160 that like not really Asian Americans, but like in the 1:39:37.280 --> 1:39:39.120 in in in in, I don't know, you see this 1:39:39.160 --> 1:39:44.400 in Chinese discourse like a decent amount. I mean, you 1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:48.160 see this in kind of um messed up ways and 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:51.520 some of the Asian American discourse from people whose families 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:55.200 never participated directly in the Maose project. You know, they 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:59.559 might have like a lot of people who immigrated here 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:04.120 to the u US weren't like they were connected to 1:40:04.160 --> 1:40:07.160 the KMT. They were on the nationalist side. There are 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:12.960 people who ideologically were never aligned with um any sort 1:40:13.000 --> 1:40:17.360 of socialist project, and you know, Bill Bill, Bill invoke 1:40:17.439 --> 1:40:20.600 things like well, you know, this is exactly what my 1:40:20.800 --> 1:40:25.599 ancestors were fleeing from China. Yeah, and it's like, okay, 1:40:25.600 --> 1:40:29.559 like you guys, like I I have really bad news 1:40:29.560 --> 1:40:32.240 for you about like what the KMT's ideology was, and 1:40:32.439 --> 1:40:36.680 like I feel like this is sort of these are 1:40:36.720 --> 1:40:41.720 like the egg monopoly people, right, Yeah, And but I 1:40:41.760 --> 1:40:44.400 think I think like this has two effects, right, which 1:40:44.439 --> 1:40:47.439 is like, on the one hand, those people like that 1:40:47.920 --> 1:40:51.880 like specific kind of very weird Chinese anti communist is 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:55.240 sort of incredibly privileged in in the way that like 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:59.679 that stuff's thought about. But then you know, like there 1:40:59.680 --> 1:41:03.960 are a lot of people who are in like from 1:41:04.000 --> 1:41:07.840 like from China who are in the US, like specifically 1:41:07.840 --> 1:41:09.600 because of the failure of this project. And this is 1:41:09.600 --> 1:41:12.000 something else you talked about in the Atlanta episodes, but 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:15.839 like several of the people like who were killed in Atlanta, 1:41:16.160 --> 1:41:23.600 like were there because like liberalization drove them to a 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:25.360 point where like they you know where where they had 1:41:25.360 --> 1:41:29.000 to work to support their families, and you know, and 1:41:29.200 --> 1:41:31.200 and and the the other thing that sort of comes 1:41:31.200 --> 1:41:34.439 hand in hand with liberalization is that that and I 1:41:34.960 --> 1:41:43.360 don't know, this is something that like people really don't 1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:47.439 want to think about, which is that you know, economic 1:41:47.439 --> 1:41:50.240 at somebody said political liberalization in China came hand in 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:53.160 hand with this massive and transport to the patriarchal project, 1:41:53.760 --> 1:41:56.479 which is the one shot policy just sort of slamming 1:41:56.479 --> 1:41:58.960 down like a hammer of being of the state, just 1:41:59.040 --> 1:42:02.160 being like we're going to just directively like we are 1:42:02.160 --> 1:42:04.880 going to directly control your reproductive autonomy. We are going 1:42:04.880 --> 1:42:06.960 to you know, we are going to force we sterilize people. 1:42:07.120 --> 1:42:10.320 We are going to like would literally just limit the 1:42:10.360 --> 1:42:11.960 amount of kids you can have. We are going to 1:42:12.040 --> 1:42:14.800 make this sort of like giant, I don't know, like 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:20.840 this enormous state intervention into like social reproduction and the 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:24.080 people who were the victims of that, Like you don't 1:42:24.120 --> 1:42:26.800 really hear from them much. I mean, like what one 1:42:26.840 --> 1:42:30.360 of the stories I'm still just haunted by is that 1:42:30.840 --> 1:42:32.800 one of the people who died in Atlanta, like her 1:42:32.840 --> 1:42:35.080 family refused to bury her, like refused to take her 1:42:35.120 --> 1:42:39.160 remains to bury her because like their village was like no, 1:42:39.439 --> 1:42:42.160 you you you never married, so you can't be like 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:47.880 buried in the village. And wow. Yeah, and so you know, 1:42:47.960 --> 1:42:50.040 like her like she had a funeral in the US 1:42:50.200 --> 1:42:52.120 that was attended by no one who knew her because 1:42:52.160 --> 1:42:53.519 none of her friends could roll up because they get 1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:56.439 a rushed by the cops. And you know, there there 1:42:56.439 --> 1:42:59.960 were these like there were these kinds of like transnational 1:43:00.040 --> 1:43:02.800 linkages of like the violence of people's families that just 1:43:03.560 --> 1:43:09.439 disappears from this sort of like narrative of like like 1:43:09.520 --> 1:43:16.240 Asian Americans like is the family is this union basis relation? Right? 1:43:19.080 --> 1:43:20.880 And on that note, did we also want to talk 1:43:20.920 --> 1:43:25.400 about how the sort of like focus on the small 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:28.800 business slash family or the family as a small business 1:43:28.800 --> 1:43:32.840 obscures some of the class conflicts within the Asian American community, 1:43:33.080 --> 1:43:36.519 Like yeah, these very massage workers you're talking about, I 1:43:36.560 --> 1:43:39.680 remember in the wake of that Atlanta shooting, a lot 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:44.719 of people started they kind of use the massage workers 1:43:44.760 --> 1:43:49.200 as like an emblem of the Asian American community more 1:43:49.240 --> 1:43:55.360 broadly one in fact, like a lot of the sort 1:43:55.360 --> 1:43:58.040 of like more professional class Asian Americans or like the 1:43:58.040 --> 1:44:02.599 Asian Americans who get platforms in the media. Um, they 1:44:02.680 --> 1:44:05.960 aren't like, they aren't from the same class as like 1:44:06.000 --> 1:44:10.040 the massage workers are. Um, we heard from like a 1:44:10.080 --> 1:44:14.320 lot of small business owners, but those are those are 1:44:14.360 --> 1:44:17.840 the same people who like own massage parlors and hire 1:44:17.880 --> 1:44:21.960 these exploited workers, who like have undocumented status and who 1:44:22.000 --> 1:44:26.920 can thus be like put into much more precarious positions 1:44:26.960 --> 1:44:35.240 than like you know, US citizens and so um, yeah, 1:44:34.040 --> 1:44:38.800 I did you want to talk a bit more about that. Yeah, 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:41.200 I mean I think I think the small business owners 1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:45.400 are it's a really sort of interesting and powerful character, 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:50.639 like especially in the US, because it's it's like it's 1:44:50.680 --> 1:44:52.800 possible to be a small business owner to be really 1:44:52.840 --> 1:44:57.599 poor but also not be propertyless. Yeah, and I think 1:44:57.640 --> 1:45:01.080 that like the like the specificically like the core of 1:45:01.120 --> 1:45:05.559 the American dream is to own property. And you know, 1:45:05.720 --> 1:45:07.680 so here is this class you can point out as 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:09.559 like oh, well, we're really poor, but you don't actually 1:45:09.600 --> 1:45:12.920 you never have to look at labor relations at all, right, 1:45:12.960 --> 1:45:15.799 and that that like frees you from having to actually 1:45:16.840 --> 1:45:19.599 think about what capitalism is. And and it also lets 1:45:19.600 --> 1:45:23.640 you it lets really like the actual sort of like 1:45:24.520 --> 1:45:27.840 the real sort of Asian American ruling class, right, like 1:45:27.880 --> 1:45:30.760 the actual billionaires, right. And you know there are Asian 1:45:30.760 --> 1:45:32.800 American billionaires. There's there's a good number of them. There's 1:45:32.840 --> 1:45:36.000 also just a bunch of just Asian billionaires. Because there 1:45:36.160 --> 1:45:39.320 is a there's just an Asian ruling class. It lets 1:45:39.360 --> 1:45:42.280 those people, especially in the US, hide behind the image 1:45:42.280 --> 1:45:45.599 of the Citi small business owner, right, and they can 1:45:45.680 --> 1:45:47.040 you know, and they can use it the launder their 1:45:47.080 --> 1:45:50.200 sort of reputation because like it's in the US, like 1:45:51.280 --> 1:45:54.559 being anti small business is like the hardest position you 1:45:54.600 --> 1:45:58.559 can possibly take. It is like like it is you 1:45:58.560 --> 1:46:02.680 you like, I don't I don't know if people remember this. Um, 1:46:03.479 --> 1:46:05.639 a friend of mine, Vicky Osterwall, wrote this book called 1:46:05.680 --> 1:46:10.120 in Defensive Looting. Oh yeah, yeah, great book. Everyone should 1:46:10.160 --> 1:46:14.240 read it. Like they were like sitting US senators were 1:46:14.320 --> 1:46:17.280 like like yelling about the book, like like a huge 1:46:17.280 --> 1:46:20.320 swasp left left got like unbelievably mad about it. Like 1:46:20.520 --> 1:46:22.800 a lot of you will probably also get mad about it. 1:46:23.200 --> 1:46:24.760 But like, like one of the things that always comes 1:46:24.800 --> 1:46:29.240 up with with with looting is like, I you know, 1:46:29.240 --> 1:46:31.439 it's like, well, are you gonna loot small businesses? And 1:46:31.439 --> 1:46:34.599 it's like, well, actually yeah, Like like in so far 1:46:34.600 --> 1:46:36.519 as people looting small businesses, a lot of times it's 1:46:36.520 --> 1:46:39.360 the people who work there and it sucks because working 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:43.680 for small businesses is fucking terrible and right, yeah, are 1:46:43.760 --> 1:46:47.040 people in the community where those like small businesses are 1:46:47.520 --> 1:46:53.320 and like our discriminatory towards Yeah, And Vicky makes this 1:46:53.439 --> 1:46:56.000 point about this, there's just kind of populism that gets 1:46:56.040 --> 1:46:59.160 invoked where you know, one of the police statements about 1:46:59.280 --> 1:47:02.439 I think it was about ferguson Um was they're talking 1:47:02.479 --> 1:47:06.000 about like they burned down our Walmart and it's like, well, 1:47:06.000 --> 1:47:08.759 what do you mean our Walmart? Like fucking owned the Walmart, 1:47:08.800 --> 1:47:10.720 Like don't get shipped from it, Like everyone who works 1:47:10.720 --> 1:47:12.840 on the walmartt's fucked. Everyone has to buy it from 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:17.240 the Walmart. But it's it's just really hollow like populism, 1:47:17.280 --> 1:47:19.880 Like it's this thing that like you assemble a community 1:47:19.880 --> 1:47:22.760 based around then around the corporation. And I think that's 1:47:22.880 --> 1:47:25.519 kind of what's been happening with Like I think it's 1:47:25.600 --> 1:47:27.639 the reason why Asian American culture is like like this 1:47:27.760 --> 1:47:31.000 because it's it's this. It's like, you know, there's there's 1:47:31.040 --> 1:47:34.760 this this very hollow like in a lot like like 1:47:35.400 --> 1:47:38.599 multinational like populism has been assembled around like the figure 1:47:38.680 --> 1:47:41.479 of the small business owner, but it's ultimately like it 1:47:41.520 --> 1:47:45.479 doesn't really have ideas other than you should let us 1:47:45.760 --> 1:47:48.639 like you should let us make money without being racist. 1:47:49.560 --> 1:47:53.000 And also the fact like the it has that idea, 1:47:53.040 --> 1:47:54.560 and then it has the idea that the family is 1:47:54.600 --> 1:48:04.519 good because it is and that's kind of it. Yeah, yeah, 1:48:04.640 --> 1:48:07.240 I don't I don't know why. I think there's there's 1:48:07.280 --> 1:48:11.639 a lot about well, okay, I would say this, like 1:48:12.720 --> 1:48:16.679 the the the day people are okay with looting small 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:19.680 businesses is the day the US can actually fall, and 1:48:19.840 --> 1:48:23.040 any until before then, like it will it will survive 1:48:23.120 --> 1:48:26.320 because that's always the sort of last defense of capitalism 1:48:26.479 --> 1:48:28.760 is like what about small businesses? And you will you 1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:31.200 will get people who call themselves communists who will be 1:48:31.240 --> 1:48:33.360 like no, no, no, actually these are fine. It's like 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:39.800 I mmmm mmmmm, Okay, so I wanted to kind of 1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:44.040 pivot back around a bit to talk about elders a 1:48:44.040 --> 1:48:46.360 bit more because I feel like I kind of sidetracked 1:48:46.439 --> 1:48:50.559 us off of that, and I, yeah, I think there's this, 1:48:50.840 --> 1:48:54.760 really I don't know, there's been this kind of like 1:48:54.840 --> 1:49:00.599 rehabilitation of the elder in a way that like was 1:49:00.680 --> 1:49:04.040 something that was deeply questioned in periods where it was 1:49:04.120 --> 1:49:06.800 kind of like it was more obvious and less and 1:49:06.840 --> 1:49:09.280 more socially statable to sort of look at the power 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:14.160 these people have and how much it can suck. H Well, yeah, 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:17.880 I think I noticed this picking up during you know, 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:21.760 the sort of like first state of anti Asian attacks 1:49:21.880 --> 1:49:26.599 during COVID. I think that's when like a lot of 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:31.320 progressive Asians started invoking the figure of the elder, right, 1:49:31.320 --> 1:49:36.600 like our elders are being attacked, Like an attack on 1:49:36.600 --> 1:49:39.280 our elders is an attack on our community, Like that 1:49:39.439 --> 1:49:43.960 sort of thing um where the elder is kind of 1:49:44.000 --> 1:49:47.560 like used as a sort of emblem of the innocence 1:49:48.320 --> 1:49:51.439 of the Asian American community or what do you like, 1:49:51.520 --> 1:49:53.719 what work do you think the elder is doing there 1:49:54.280 --> 1:49:57.640 in this discourse? Like why does it have to be 1:49:57.720 --> 1:49:59.599 an elder? Like what if you were just saying Asian 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:02.759 people being attacked, or like what if it was Asian 1:50:02.840 --> 1:50:04.920 youths being attacked? Like what why does it have to 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:07.599 be the Asian elder? Because I think we were talking 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:11.120 about this earlier. Empirically it's not exactly true, right, it 1:50:11.240 --> 1:50:16.599 wasn't mostly old people who are victims of these attacks. Yeah, 1:50:16.680 --> 1:50:17.960 And I mean I think this is one of the 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:20.920 areas where like the murky, like you know, it's really 1:50:20.960 --> 1:50:25.000 really hard to get good data on cruise being attacked 1:50:25.120 --> 1:50:28.439 because I mean, police reports are obviously incredibly unreliable, right, 1:50:29.080 --> 1:50:32.160 and then you know, like they're self collected data, but 1:50:32.200 --> 1:50:35.960 the self collected data is not all encompassing it, you know, 1:50:36.200 --> 1:50:39.479 it's sort of skewed in its own ways. But yeah, 1:50:39.520 --> 1:50:42.479 I think I think there's this way in which, like, 1:50:44.280 --> 1:50:45.880 I don't know, like I think there's almost as way 1:50:45.880 --> 1:50:48.320 in which elder is almost like they're also like like 1:50:48.479 --> 1:50:52.200 personally infantilized by it, where it's like the pick as 1:50:52.280 --> 1:50:56.280 this sort of like like part of like they used 1:50:56.280 --> 1:50:58.280 as a sort of symbol of like people who can't 1:50:58.320 --> 1:51:02.479 defend themselves, which partially isn't true. Like there were actually 1:51:02.520 --> 1:51:05.559 examples of like Asian elders like defending themselves. But but 1:51:05.720 --> 1:51:08.680 it does this kind of like and also like the 1:51:09.120 --> 1:51:13.800 rates of gun purchase purchases one up with it. I mean, 1:51:13.840 --> 1:51:17.759 I know, like just the ncdotally in the Chinese American community, 1:51:17.800 --> 1:51:22.479 I knew so many like like elderly Chinese people who 1:51:22.479 --> 1:51:23.720 are like, I'm going to go out and buy a 1:51:23.760 --> 1:51:29.919 gun though. Yeah, yeah, I think like the way that 1:51:29.920 --> 1:51:32.559 that thing it was invoked has a lot of sort 1:51:32.600 --> 1:51:36.760 of like I don't know, it was it was like 1:51:39.720 --> 1:51:42.120 there was this way in which they like they became framed, 1:51:42.200 --> 1:51:44.840 is like this is sort of like this is the 1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:47.680 apotheosis of like everything that it is to like be 1:51:47.800 --> 1:51:51.200 Asian American h and that like that like the fact 1:51:51.200 --> 1:51:55.760 that that was under attack was this sort of incredible crisis, right, 1:51:56.680 --> 1:51:59.519 And I think like I think there's like that as 1:52:00.360 --> 1:52:02.519 gears a lot about what was happening, which is that 1:52:02.640 --> 1:52:06.719 like if there was one clear trend in the data, 1:52:06.880 --> 1:52:08.680 it was that women were being attacked at like a 1:52:08.680 --> 1:52:13.080 way higher rate than anyone else. And you know, and 1:52:13.360 --> 1:52:16.400 this has been a thing that has sort of continued, 1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:20.519 which is like I don't know, like there's been more 1:52:20.560 --> 1:52:22.840 attacks in the last like few months, right, and it's 1:52:22.880 --> 1:52:25.599 it's it's it's been a lot of like young women 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:27.799 getting like young Asian women getting pushed in front of trains, 1:52:29.000 --> 1:52:36.200 and people have just really stopped caring, like yeah, to 1:52:36.560 --> 1:52:39.000 the extent where like it's it's like literally a meme 1:52:39.040 --> 1:52:41.479 that you can like watch the cycle of like the 1:52:41.800 --> 1:52:45.599 stop API hate like signs coming up and down. Right. 1:52:46.560 --> 1:52:49.479 And I don't know, I think I think the elder 1:52:49.520 --> 1:52:52.519 part of it kind of like it obscured a lot 1:52:52.640 --> 1:52:55.800 of what was actually happening. Yeah. I feel like the 1:52:55.880 --> 1:53:01.480 last incident that really made a splash in the media was, um, 1:53:01.600 --> 1:53:06.320 the murder of Christina Una is that urt I forget 1:53:06.400 --> 1:53:10.960 what her last name is, but um, Christina Una leave 1:53:11.680 --> 1:53:18.240 um getting murdered in Chinatown And this was already a 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:25.960 year ago. Um, And I haven't really heard anything since, 1:53:26.080 --> 1:53:30.320 Like I see things in the local news. Um that 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:34.840 where I live in Queens recently had a couple of attacks, 1:53:35.720 --> 1:53:39.160 um just a week ago, I think, but it didn't 1:53:39.160 --> 1:53:46.280 make the national news or anything. Yeah, And I think 1:53:46.400 --> 1:53:50.840 the way that the kind of like hierarchy of victimhood 1:53:50.880 --> 1:53:53.680 I guess affected that like has had I you know, 1:53:53.920 --> 1:53:56.920 I'm not sure it's the biggest like single reason why 1:53:56.920 --> 1:53:59.840 everyone has sort of stopped caring. But like I like 1:53:59.840 --> 1:54:02.080 I I think the sort of stop api hate like 1:54:03.720 --> 1:54:09.000 that moment kind of only happened because there was this 1:54:09.120 --> 1:54:12.559 sort of backlash against like there's this backlash against Black 1:54:12.600 --> 1:54:14.960 Lives Matter and against the insurrection, and people needed another 1:54:15.240 --> 1:54:19.599 people needed a kind of like ideologically safe like thing, 1:54:19.840 --> 1:54:22.960 like way of demonstrating like how good their politics were 1:54:23.080 --> 1:54:27.760 or whatever. But I think it definitely contributed to sort 1:54:27.760 --> 1:54:37.280 of why like stuff has been abandoned. And I also 1:54:37.360 --> 1:54:39.920 wanted to ask, do you see this, this thing, this 1:54:40.080 --> 1:54:44.440 stixation on elders um is happening at the same time 1:54:44.640 --> 1:54:49.760 that ancestors get invoked a lot in like Asian American literature, 1:54:50.000 --> 1:54:55.360 especially queer literature. Um, I'm thinking of authors like Ocean Wong, 1:54:55.560 --> 1:55:00.280 Like how did ancestors become such a thing? Yeah, really, 1:55:00.400 --> 1:55:03.879 I don't know, I really don't understand how that happens. 1:55:04.120 --> 1:55:07.960 Like a lot of my ancestors fucking sucked. Like I 1:55:08.000 --> 1:55:10.280 don't know, like like I don't know how to sort 1:55:10.280 --> 1:55:13.920 of like I don't know. I have this sort of 1:55:18.480 --> 1:55:24.760 I don't know, I have this sort of weird sense 1:55:25.080 --> 1:55:27.400 of the kind of politics at work here, which is 1:55:27.440 --> 1:55:34.760 like there's a lot of kinds of politics that I 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:36.760 think can work in for example, in indigenous contexts that 1:55:36.800 --> 1:55:40.120 are very very powerful, that don't really work in the 1:55:40.160 --> 1:55:43.760 Asian American context where like like our ancestors, Like if 1:55:43.760 --> 1:55:46.680 you're a Chinese, right your ancestors did some fucked up shit, 1:55:46.920 --> 1:55:51.120 Like your ancestors did a lot of jedicides, like you 1:55:51.120 --> 1:55:52.960 you like you know, And I think I think that's 1:55:52.960 --> 1:55:55.120 something that's actually at the core of the kind of 1:55:55.160 --> 1:55:57.720 like right wing Chinese nationalism, which is that like right 1:55:57.920 --> 1:56:02.640 when Chinese nationalism is basically about the anger that China 1:56:02.800 --> 1:56:04.879 was like ceased to be able to be an empire 1:56:06.240 --> 1:56:08.640 because like if you look at the sort of colonization process, right, 1:56:08.640 --> 1:56:14.960 like the Qing are this very very expansionist like like 1:56:15.040 --> 1:56:18.320 sort of militarist imperial state, right like they're they're they're 1:56:18.320 --> 1:56:21.800 they're they're like they conquered, like they if they find 1:56:21.800 --> 1:56:24.480 a bunch of wars around Tibet, they conquered shing Jun 1:56:24.320 --> 1:56:27.440 and they do a genocide, They're like immediately they're pushing south. 1:56:27.480 --> 1:56:29.960 They're pushing like they're they're basically pushing like in every 1:56:30.000 --> 1:56:35.680 direction they could possibly push and then they kind of 1:56:35.720 --> 1:56:39.040 like you know, they they hit like a pretty impressive 1:56:39.120 --> 1:56:43.200 territorial boundaries, and then their ability to do imperialism gets 1:56:43.400 --> 1:56:48.000 kind of halted because suddenly there's other imperial powers like 1:56:48.040 --> 1:56:49.480 in the region, and you know, and the sort of 1:56:49.560 --> 1:56:51.560 end of this is like they they lose all these 1:56:51.600 --> 1:56:54.120 wars and you have the start of like you have 1:56:54.160 --> 1:56:55.920 the start of the Century of Humiliation and all of 1:56:55.960 --> 1:56:57.400 the sort of stuff that happens there. But it's like 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.800 the actual thing that they're like the actual thing that 1:57:00.920 --> 1:57:05.480 the Century of Humiliation people are humiliated about. Well, I 1:57:05.520 --> 1:57:07.280 mean the fact that it's called the Center of Humiliation 1:57:07.280 --> 1:57:09.240 and not like I don't know, like the like the 1:57:09.280 --> 1:57:13.040 Century of Death or something, which for people who don't 1:57:13.040 --> 1:57:16.640 know what Century of Humiliation is. Um, So, I think 1:57:16.680 --> 1:57:18.840 it's it's I think that the actuals I think it's 1:57:18.840 --> 1:57:20.840 like eighteen forty nineteen forty. There's this is sort of 1:57:20.920 --> 1:57:25.520 nationalist term around understanding this period in which China is undergoing, 1:57:25.640 --> 1:57:29.160 like you know, it is genuinely like like people in 1:57:29.240 --> 1:57:33.800 China are like suffering enormous imperial violence. Um Like, I 1:57:34.840 --> 1:57:37.720 like unfathomable numbers people die in this period this is 1:57:37.720 --> 1:57:39.560 like the Opium but basically a period from the Opium 1:57:39.600 --> 1:57:42.600 Wars until you know, sort of through the various Japanese 1:57:42.640 --> 1:57:46.440 conquests and then sort of ending essentially with the Revolution. 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:50.400 But yeah, I don't know, Like, I think it's interesting 1:57:50.400 --> 1:57:53.480 that it's it's understood in the in terms of national humiliation, 1:57:54.040 --> 1:57:56.200 in terms of sort of like the loss of disability 1:57:56.280 --> 1:58:01.720 to do I mean to do imperialism, and instead of 1:58:01.760 --> 1:58:04.720 in sort of terms of like the just unfathomable human 1:58:04.760 --> 1:58:10.160 suffering that one on. And I think this all of 1:58:10.200 --> 1:58:13.560 this sort of comes back to this weird kind of 1:58:13.600 --> 1:58:19.000 intensification of nationalism kind of among everyone in the last 1:58:19.080 --> 1:58:22.960 like especially since twenty twenty. You know, I mean there's 1:58:23.000 --> 1:58:24.920 been there's been like a kind of like explicit like 1:58:25.000 --> 1:58:27.000 Chinese nationalist terms and parts of left. But I think 1:58:27.040 --> 1:58:31.240 I think it's really kind of like hit everyone in 1:58:31.320 --> 1:58:39.560 ways that like hasn't really been examined. There's been this 1:58:39.720 --> 1:58:45.440 kind of difficulty in having a kind of like theoretical 1:58:45.480 --> 1:58:50.000 and cultural language to speak about Asian American nous, partially 1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:52.440 because well because like the you know, I've talked about 1:58:52.440 --> 1:58:58.200 this before, right, but like the term Asian American was 1:58:58.240 --> 1:59:02.120 created by like Third worldists, right, many of who are 1:59:02.120 --> 1:59:04.240 a Maoist someone whom are certain Marxist Lendinness. But like 1:59:04.880 --> 1:59:08.600 that that whole language just died. I mean, like you 1:59:08.600 --> 1:59:11.080 you know, you know you can still find like Boba 1:59:11.160 --> 1:59:14.040 Vankian or whatever, but like the sort of language is 1:59:14.080 --> 1:59:16.840 like understanding yourself was part of the Third World. And 1:59:17.520 --> 1:59:20.120 like you know, like as as like a liberal national 1:59:20.120 --> 1:59:23.360 liberation movement, like that's over. National liberation is basically dead 1:59:23.360 --> 1:59:26.360 as a politics, like and any and anyone who tried 1:59:26.360 --> 1:59:29.080 it after a certain point like just got called sessionists 1:59:29.080 --> 1:59:33.200 and now just get murdered horribly. Um. And like you know, 1:59:33.240 --> 1:59:36.080 and there's there's obviously also the sort of like China, Vietnam, 1:59:36.120 --> 1:59:38.839 Cambodia fighting each other thing that that has this massive 1:59:38.880 --> 1:59:42.400 impact on that kind of politics, and it gets replaced 1:59:42.440 --> 1:59:46.720 with um, this kind of politics that's based that's you know, 1:59:46.880 --> 1:59:50.920 it gets sort of replaced by like the Asian civil 1:59:51.000 --> 1:59:54.760 rights movement stuff. Right, But like there's there's no but 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:57.120 the things like ASI Rescue is it doesn't have politics, 1:59:57.320 --> 2:00:00.080 like as politics are completely incoherent. Like you have of 2:00:01.000 --> 2:00:03.840 like you literally have these marches where you have like 2:00:04.080 --> 2:00:07.080 old school like camp desk squad guys like marching next 2:00:07.080 --> 2:00:11.080 to maoists, And it's like why you you can because 2:00:11.160 --> 2:00:13.120 it's supposed to be a sort of like panaty logical 2:00:13.160 --> 2:00:15.640 thing and over time, like all the all the ideologies 2:00:15.760 --> 2:00:18.960 they're supposed to compose, it die. And but but that 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:23.360 meant that like there's there's no like there's no actual 2:00:23.520 --> 2:00:26.440 language to sort of talk about the experience because the 2:00:26.640 --> 2:00:29.360 two sets of vocabularies that like or like wait like 2:00:29.480 --> 2:00:33.920 frames of understanding the struggle or just have both kind 2:00:33.920 --> 2:00:40.280 of like eire basically collapsed or been discredited. And I 2:00:40.320 --> 2:00:42.920 think that leaves this whole and people are trying to 2:00:43.120 --> 2:00:47.160 fill the hole by like adopting other people's politics, But 2:00:47.200 --> 2:00:50.480 like it doesn't work for us. I don't think, Like 2:00:50.560 --> 2:00:54.080 I I don't know, like I like, I think people 2:00:54.080 --> 2:00:57.560 will disagree with me about the potential of of sort 2:00:57.560 --> 2:00:59.720 of ancestor politics and politics of elders, but like, I 2:00:59.720 --> 2:01:06.280 don't think it does that much for us. Yeah, I 2:01:06.320 --> 2:01:08.840 think the last thing that I do want to say is, 2:01:08.880 --> 2:01:11.840 you know, if we've reached the limits of a lot 2:01:11.840 --> 2:01:18.120 of the politics that we've been seeing here, Um, what 2:01:18.120 --> 2:01:20.480 what what kinds of politics and what kind you also 2:01:20.520 --> 2:01:22.320 sort of what kind of media do you do? You 2:01:22.400 --> 2:01:24.040 do you see as stuff that we can used to 2:01:24.040 --> 2:01:25.840 go beyond this, because I think there is a lot 2:01:25.880 --> 2:01:29.560 of like like, there are a lot of like people 2:01:29.640 --> 2:01:40.080 creating good like queer stuff, not like yeah, actually I 2:01:40.080 --> 2:01:43.560 think I mentioned this to you. Um. I recently watched 2:01:43.560 --> 2:01:47.680 this film called Return to Soul Um. It's by a 2:01:47.760 --> 2:01:53.720 director called Davy two, and it's about a French Korean adoptee. 2:01:53.720 --> 2:01:57.280 So she was adopted from Korea as a baby, I 2:01:57.320 --> 2:01:59.720 mean yeah, as a baby by French parents and grew 2:01:59.760 --> 2:02:02.360 up in friends and the film is like kind of 2:02:02.360 --> 2:02:06.560 a journey of her going back to Korea and meeting 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:10.520 her birth family. But it's like, it's not it doesn't 2:02:10.560 --> 2:02:15.960 fall into the same sort of like family natalist politics. 2:02:15.960 --> 2:02:24.120 It's very like deeply questioning of of the family and 2:02:24.600 --> 2:02:32.080 of even like this idea that um, I guess what 2:02:32.400 --> 2:02:39.880 the sort of like wayward queer stray Asian child like 2:02:40.080 --> 2:02:43.200 needs in order to heal from trauma, Like she doesn't 2:02:43.280 --> 2:02:50.160 really have reconciliations with either family, like either her French 2:02:50.240 --> 2:02:52.800 family that she comes from, like they're very much sidelined 2:02:52.840 --> 2:02:56.720 in this film, they just don't play that big of 2:02:56.720 --> 2:02:59.800 a role. And then she and then when she goes 2:02:59.840 --> 2:03:02.360 to Korea, you know, she has these very like awkward 2:03:02.440 --> 2:03:06.880 encounters meeting her birth family because they're like immediately like, oh, 2:03:06.960 --> 2:03:10.200 you know, we're so sorry we gave you away. Now 2:03:10.240 --> 2:03:12.240 you're back, you could come live with us. And then 2:03:12.320 --> 2:03:15.160 she's just like hold on, like I don't even know 2:03:15.240 --> 2:03:19.040 if I consider you my family. And so it it 2:03:19.160 --> 2:03:23.520 seemed to me like to really depart from this like 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:28.120 script that we've become so accustomed to in Asian diasporic 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:32.520 film in a really interesting way, I thought. And it's 2:03:32.560 --> 2:03:34.720 also a lot about music, Like it's a very moody, 2:03:34.920 --> 2:03:40.280 music driven film. It doesn't feel that identitarian. Yeah, I 2:03:40.320 --> 2:03:45.520 would recommend everyone to watch it everything every all at once. 2:03:45.720 --> 2:03:47.760 Is we have that we have now told the best 2:03:47.880 --> 2:03:50.480 version of that story, and I think we can find 2:03:51.560 --> 2:03:54.320 you know, I would just like like this is this 2:03:54.360 --> 2:03:57.000 is a really broad recommendation, but like, go watch One 2:03:57.040 --> 2:03:58.440 car Way. This is this, Okay, this is the most 2:03:58.440 --> 2:04:01.440 film nerd I'm ever gonna get that doesn't involve I 2:04:03.200 --> 2:04:05.520 am I suddenly blanking in the name of the thing. Sorry, 2:04:05.560 --> 2:04:08.280 Danel The most film nerd I'm ever going to get 2:04:08.280 --> 2:04:10.840 that doesn't involve the Commune de Paris eighteen seventy one 2:04:11.360 --> 2:04:14.360 is go watch one Car? Why like they're there? I 2:04:14.360 --> 2:04:16.960 don't know. I I think I think there is something 2:04:16.960 --> 2:04:20.920 to be gained by looking at you know, I mean 2:04:21.040 --> 2:04:24.880 they're like looking at Hong Kong cinema looking at I 2:04:24.880 --> 2:04:28.360 don't know, I I like good, good Americans have finally 2:04:28.400 --> 2:04:33.320 realized that Korean cinema was really good, which is wonderful. Um, 2:04:33.320 --> 2:04:36.480 I'm glad, I'm glad. We're, you know, getting to the 2:04:36.480 --> 2:04:38.880 place where people realize that it's that like, there's a 2:04:38.880 --> 2:04:42.440 lot of great stuff going on there. But we know 2:04:42.560 --> 2:04:45.240 it is possible for Asians to tell different stories because 2:04:45.280 --> 2:04:48.800 all across the world they already are, right like we 2:04:48.640 --> 2:04:51.000 we are already telling stories that are different and more 2:04:51.000 --> 2:04:54.480 interesting than this. And I think, well then, and I 2:04:54.600 --> 2:04:56.720 must typically saying, like, then everything everywell it wants. But 2:04:56.720 --> 2:04:59.760 then that then then the specific structure that that the 2:05:00.120 --> 2:05:03.560 the Asian American movies fallen too, and yeah, people should 2:05:03.600 --> 2:05:07.560 go discover them because they're great, and yeah, we can 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:13.920 find new and better kinds of queer joy and yeah, yeah, Tiffany, 2:05:14.000 --> 2:05:15.720 thank you so much for joining us and being on. 2:05:15.720 --> 2:05:17.560 I don't know why I'm saying us as if there's 2:05:17.640 --> 2:05:21.520 more than me here, but yeah, thank you, thank you 2:05:21.560 --> 2:05:24.920 for being on the show. Yeah anytime. Thank you for 2:05:25.000 --> 2:05:30.560 having me on. And it's been a really stimulating conversation. Yeah. Yeah, 2:05:30.680 --> 2:05:32.840 this has been naked Happened Here. You can find us 2:05:32.920 --> 2:05:35.400 at Happened Here pod on Twitter and Instagram. You can 2:05:35.400 --> 2:05:38.960 find Coals on Media at Coals on Media. I hope 2:05:38.960 --> 2:05:41.680 it's Cools on Media. I'm actually not one hundred percent suffets. 2:05:41.800 --> 2:05:45.160 I should know this by now. I simply have not learned. 2:05:46.000 --> 2:05:50.280 M Yeah, go go, go, go into the world. B 2:05:50.440 --> 2:06:09.400 gad crime. Welcome Dick had Happened Here The show about 2:06:09.480 --> 2:06:11.840 things following apart and how to put them back together again. 2:06:12.240 --> 2:06:14.280 I'm your host, Mia Wong, and today we have a 2:06:14.320 --> 2:06:16.960 really exciting episode. We're gonna be talking to a group 2:06:16.960 --> 2:06:20.680 of workers from the California Nurses Association, which is specifically 2:06:20.680 --> 2:06:23.480 their national Organizing Committee, which is I think better known 2:06:23.520 --> 2:06:25.720 to most people. And then you are a national Nurses 2:06:25.800 --> 2:06:31.920 United and these people are part of a shift of 2:06:31.920 --> 2:06:35.040 workers who was for the first time running a rank 2:06:35.080 --> 2:06:38.680 and file slate for the Council of Presidents, which is 2:06:38.680 --> 2:06:41.400 sort of they're a body that combines the positions of 2:06:41.480 --> 2:06:44.520 vice president president in the Union. They're called Shift Change 2:06:44.640 --> 2:06:48.200 and so, Eric, do you want to introduce yourself? All right? 2:06:48.520 --> 2:06:51.320 My name is Eric Cook. I've been a nurse for 2:06:51.440 --> 2:06:56.920 thirty two years. I currently work in the cardiac telemetry floor. 2:06:57.400 --> 2:06:59.920 And I became a nurse after being a Navy corn 2:07:00.280 --> 2:07:05.240 in the First Gulf War and just continued in healthcare 2:07:05.280 --> 2:07:08.320 from there. I was originally an alvin and then became 2:07:08.360 --> 2:07:11.880 a registered nurse, and I've been on the past three 2:07:11.920 --> 2:07:18.320 negotiating teams for Altabates Summit Hospital and I've seen a 2:07:18.320 --> 2:07:22.400 lot of changes in the attitude and movement of the 2:07:22.520 --> 2:07:29.720 union in the past twelve years. So I'm hoping with 2:07:29.840 --> 2:07:34.120 John and Raina and Mark to make a change for 2:07:34.200 --> 2:07:37.480 our union and our members for the better. Yeah. I'm glad, 2:07:37.560 --> 2:07:41.200 glad you could be here to join us. Thank you. Yeah, Rina, 2:07:41.240 --> 2:07:44.520 do you want to introduce yourself? Hi? There, I'm Rina Lindsay. 2:07:45.080 --> 2:07:49.560 I have been a California nurse for over thirteen years, 2:07:50.280 --> 2:07:54.080 and out of those thirteen years, eight of them I've 2:07:54.120 --> 2:07:57.320 been in Altibate's Medical Center, which was my first union 2:07:57.680 --> 2:08:02.760 as an r N how I And also I'm sorry, 2:08:02.760 --> 2:08:06.760 And also I work in ice you and I've been 2:08:06.800 --> 2:08:13.520 there through been there for about seven years wow. And 2:08:13.560 --> 2:08:17.880 I've worked with Eric a year prior to that. So 2:08:19.240 --> 2:08:22.120 the reason why I became a nurse is a long story, 2:08:22.280 --> 2:08:27.520 but the bridge version is at the beginning, I wanted 2:08:27.600 --> 2:08:30.600 to be a lawyer. So when I went to college 2:08:31.560 --> 2:08:34.120 kind of fight. I was dyslexic, so that kind of 2:08:34.160 --> 2:08:38.040 backed out. And then I also was a teen mom, 2:08:38.280 --> 2:08:41.200 which that's something that a lot of people do not 2:08:41.360 --> 2:08:46.720 know about me. And during that whole process, I wanted 2:08:46.720 --> 2:08:49.760 to find something that I could be an advocate for 2:08:49.840 --> 2:08:53.480 people and also know the political side of it. So 2:08:53.640 --> 2:08:56.440 nursing became the best benefit. One thing I love about 2:08:56.520 --> 2:09:00.320 nursing is you can learn everything about the world to 2:09:00.400 --> 2:09:04.440 know about people without going anywhere, So that was the thrill. 2:09:04.640 --> 2:09:08.160 And then also being an advocate for the patients I 2:09:08.280 --> 2:09:12.960 take care for. In addition to that, you know, knowing 2:09:13.160 --> 2:09:17.000 my peers and knowing that we all have the similar 2:09:17.080 --> 2:09:20.960 struggles when it comes to the systems that we work for. 2:09:21.160 --> 2:09:25.120 Doesn't matter which employer you work for, and so being 2:09:25.160 --> 2:09:29.400 in the union, it gives you that way of a 2:09:29.520 --> 2:09:33.160 contract between you and your employer. And along the way 2:09:33.560 --> 2:09:36.200 there has been some issues which Eric and I and 2:09:36.360 --> 2:09:42.520 John all been experiencing where things do need to change, 2:09:42.920 --> 2:09:48.720 and being part of shift change is part where we 2:09:49.120 --> 2:09:52.440 have to change of leadership and be more transparent between 2:09:52.880 --> 2:10:00.000 the union, the employer, and the people in general. Hell yeah, 2:10:00.040 --> 2:10:02.800 and yeah, John, do you want to introduce yourself? Yeah? Sure, 2:10:03.200 --> 2:10:09.560 I'm John Horonymous. I'm a packy recovery nurse at University 2:10:09.560 --> 2:10:12.840 of Chicago. Before that, I was in the medical U 2:10:12.920 --> 2:10:18.680 for six and a half years. And then before that, 2:10:18.800 --> 2:10:22.600 I was like a associate's degree r END working at 2:10:22.640 --> 2:10:26.720 the emergency room at holy Cross Hospital. And I also started, 2:10:26.920 --> 2:10:30.000 which is funny to me, as an LPN, which is 2:10:30.040 --> 2:10:33.280 the same thing as an LVN that Eric did. And 2:10:33.400 --> 2:10:37.000 I was a CNA before that. I decided to become 2:10:37.000 --> 2:10:40.280 a nurse way back in the day when I was 2:10:40.400 --> 2:10:42.360 trying to figure out what I wanted to do after 2:10:42.440 --> 2:10:45.720 dropping out of high school, and I was thinking about 2:10:45.760 --> 2:10:47.800 man and maybe I should become like a history teacher, 2:10:47.880 --> 2:10:49.320 and I was like, Oh, why would I want to 2:10:49.360 --> 2:10:51.200 go back to this place I hate so much? I 2:10:51.280 --> 2:10:55.680 dropped out of it. And I personally got like incredibly 2:10:55.960 --> 2:10:58.640 sick with something called ul sort of kalitis, and I 2:10:58.680 --> 2:11:03.040 got bunch of surgeries done and got some really amazing 2:11:03.720 --> 2:11:08.280 experience being taken care of by nurses, and it became 2:11:08.400 --> 2:11:11.360 really immediately obvious to me, like I also, like Raina, 2:11:11.480 --> 2:11:15.280 wanted to help people. And also I thought that nursing 2:11:15.760 --> 2:11:19.640 was like a way where even like for you know, individuals, 2:11:19.680 --> 2:11:22.400 I could change someone's day just a little bit for 2:11:22.440 --> 2:11:26.600 the better, but also like maybe changed some bigger things. 2:11:26.960 --> 2:11:28.880 And so I thought nursing was just like a really 2:11:28.880 --> 2:11:32.080 great way to do that. Also, it's really fortunate to 2:11:32.120 --> 2:11:35.240 be raised by an amazing nurse. My mom was a 2:11:35.360 --> 2:11:40.040 nurse and she was always like she's like one of 2:11:40.080 --> 2:11:44.920 those people was my hero. And a lot of other 2:11:45.000 --> 2:11:49.440 nurses in my family, both men and women, including someone 2:11:49.480 --> 2:11:52.360 who is like a Kentucky frontier nurses like the first 2:11:52.360 --> 2:11:55.400 group of nurse practitioner nurse midwife back in the like 2:11:55.440 --> 2:12:00.280 the nineteen forties, back in Kentucky. So I got a 2:12:00.280 --> 2:12:03.200 lot of nurses in my family and on this like 2:12:03.680 --> 2:12:09.040 incredibly proud to be like paring on all the stuff 2:12:09.040 --> 2:12:11.400 that they have been doing for all their years as 2:12:11.520 --> 2:12:16.400 like nurses, so and like meeting the folks out in California, 2:12:16.520 --> 2:12:18.840 like Raina and Eric. It just makes me feel so good, 2:12:18.880 --> 2:12:23.360 like we're doing really important stuff in terms of both 2:12:23.520 --> 2:12:27.640 our daily practice of being a nurse, but also like 2:12:28.080 --> 2:12:31.760 that we can have like this bigger impact on how 2:12:31.800 --> 2:12:34.360 things are happening in our profession, in the healthcare industry, 2:12:34.400 --> 2:12:39.400 and just the broader world. Yeah. Yeah, we've we've talked 2:12:39.440 --> 2:12:43.000 like a decent amount on this show now about sort 2:12:43.040 --> 2:12:45.480 of the labor issues that have been facing nurses both 2:12:45.520 --> 2:12:47.920 actually here and in the UK, and I think a 2:12:47.960 --> 2:12:49.920 little bit in a couple of other countries. Yeah, I was. 2:12:49.960 --> 2:12:52.280 I was wondering what were the sort of specific things 2:12:52.320 --> 2:12:55.960 that you all were dealing with, both just in the 2:12:56.000 --> 2:13:00.440 profession and then also in the union that got altogether 2:13:00.600 --> 2:13:04.680 to run this sleep Okay, So one of the things 2:13:04.760 --> 2:13:10.280 that caused us to actually meet, by coincidence was one 2:13:10.320 --> 2:13:15.360 of my co workers, told Doordall, who's a Norwegian nurse 2:13:15.360 --> 2:13:20.760 who's been a nurse here in America for over thirty years. 2:13:22.160 --> 2:13:27.920 She contacted labor notes and you know, realizing something was 2:13:27.960 --> 2:13:32.480 wrong in our union, she started talking with specifically Sarah 2:13:32.600 --> 2:13:38.440 Hughes at labor Notes, and through labor Notes and Sarah, 2:13:38.480 --> 2:13:42.000 we were able to connect with John and Chicago, and 2:13:42.040 --> 2:13:46.240 it was amazing that what we discovered is that our 2:13:46.280 --> 2:13:54.920 problems here in California were mimicking what they've experienced in Chicago, 2:13:55.640 --> 2:14:01.000 and through Sarah finding out from other diverse communities of 2:14:01.080 --> 2:14:07.000 nurses in Texas, Florida, North Carolina, New York, in Minnesota 2:14:07.040 --> 2:14:10.680 that the same things are happening there under our same union. 2:14:11.320 --> 2:14:14.760 And our complaint was through our union, was that we 2:14:14.800 --> 2:14:17.880 felt we were being siloed. And of course, when I 2:14:17.920 --> 2:14:23.160 say siloed, is actually in our negotiations. We had seventeen 2:14:23.240 --> 2:14:27.280 facilities negotiating, but we were told that we were not 2:14:27.360 --> 2:14:30.440 allowed to communicate with each other. I said, it was 2:14:30.680 --> 2:14:38.400 it was forbidden by the federal mediator. Now why this is? Yes, yes, 2:14:38.520 --> 2:14:43.000 I know that was my reaction initially too. There were 2:14:43.000 --> 2:14:46.840 two other negotiators on the team and it was highly 2:14:46.880 --> 2:14:51.880 suspicious because the union wanted to put all new nurses 2:14:52.560 --> 2:14:56.200 onto the negotiating team, and that was a little bit 2:14:56.360 --> 2:14:59.040 of a red flag. There were so many red flags 2:14:59.040 --> 2:15:04.080 through this negotiation. I swear I could almost see Lennon's tomb. 2:15:04.160 --> 2:15:08.760 That's how many red flags there were. It was amazing 2:15:08.800 --> 2:15:12.720 to us is that they said the mediator forbade us 2:15:12.720 --> 2:15:16.440 from talking to each other, because that was part of 2:15:16.440 --> 2:15:20.800 the agreement to have the federal mediator. The three of 2:15:20.880 --> 2:15:26.680 us that had previous experience with negotiating just knew that 2:15:26.880 --> 2:15:33.400 was the wrong thing. And it took over at least 2:15:33.480 --> 2:15:36.840 about seven months before we started breaking through to other 2:15:36.960 --> 2:15:41.240 tables and communicating with them on text and having our 2:15:41.240 --> 2:15:45.040 own zoom conversations with them to convince them that no, 2:15:45.320 --> 2:15:47.760 this is a lie. We are allowed to talk to 2:15:47.800 --> 2:15:51.520 each other. And we end up finding out that we 2:15:51.520 --> 2:15:55.960 were kind of being railroaded into what we considered an 2:15:55.960 --> 2:16:00.760 agreement that was less than satisfactory for the workers, for 2:16:00.800 --> 2:16:05.400 the nurses who have suffered during the pandemic, we could 2:16:05.400 --> 2:16:10.560 have gotten probably one of the greatest contracts that any 2:16:11.080 --> 2:16:16.560 nursing body had ever received. We had the industry by 2:16:16.600 --> 2:16:20.440 the throat. We suffered so much, you know, John, everybody 2:16:20.440 --> 2:16:23.960 throughout the country, all the nurses suffered, everybody's suffered, but 2:16:24.920 --> 2:16:30.280 everybody that was at that bedside during the pandemic. We 2:16:31.960 --> 2:16:35.360 it was a horrific experience. It's great when you take 2:16:35.400 --> 2:16:38.000 care of people and you heal them. Yes, it's that's 2:16:38.040 --> 2:16:43.440 a great thing. But the stress and the you know, 2:16:43.600 --> 2:16:47.920 the unending anxiety that you felt, and then in the 2:16:47.959 --> 2:16:51.840 midst of this, you have a union that short changes 2:16:51.920 --> 2:16:55.480 you at a point when we had so much power, 2:16:56.600 --> 2:17:00.800 And thank Heavens for Sarah to put us into contact 2:17:00.840 --> 2:17:04.200 with all these other nurses to realize that it wasn't 2:17:04.240 --> 2:17:09.039 just the subter division of the California Nurses Association that 2:17:09.200 --> 2:17:14.400 was running things among it was actually it seemed to 2:17:14.440 --> 2:17:19.040 be a perceived playbook plan of what they were doing 2:17:19.120 --> 2:17:24.640 throughout the country. And I think nobody perceives themselves as 2:17:24.720 --> 2:17:28.199 doing evil or anything like that. I think they always 2:17:28.840 --> 2:17:33.160 think that they're doing it for the better interest of everybody. 2:17:33.200 --> 2:17:37.640 But that's what's important about a rank and file movement 2:17:37.760 --> 2:17:42.440 is that every nurse, every person in the union is 2:17:42.480 --> 2:17:47.039 important and deserves a voice. And we don't need to 2:17:47.080 --> 2:17:52.200 be gas lit, we don't need to be mistreated by 2:17:52.360 --> 2:17:57.920 the union that we pay to represent us. We need 2:17:57.959 --> 2:18:01.720 to be marching on the boss. We could have had 2:18:03.640 --> 2:18:10.240 an unending euphoria for nurses with a contract. We could 2:18:10.240 --> 2:18:13.720 have had great staffing, we could have had better pay, 2:18:13.879 --> 2:18:16.120 we could have had everything that we wanted to make 2:18:16.160 --> 2:18:20.080 our work lives to be the best they could be, 2:18:21.400 --> 2:18:25.360 and it seemed our union already had a preplanned agreement 2:18:25.720 --> 2:18:30.760 with the corporation. Now they deny that, but it's kind 2:18:30.840 --> 2:18:33.280 of hard to believe when they had the same agreement 2:18:34.520 --> 2:18:40.000 that they were supposedly negotiating in silos, that they weren't communicating. 2:18:40.040 --> 2:18:42.879 Each table was supposedly negotiating their own, but it was 2:18:42.920 --> 2:18:46.480 the same thing they wanted at every table, and not 2:18:46.560 --> 2:18:51.080 all the tables were equal. It was very sad for us. 2:18:51.520 --> 2:18:53.960 Like I said, this is the third negotiating team. I 2:18:54.120 --> 2:18:57.760 was on the first negotiating team I was on. We 2:18:58.560 --> 2:19:02.600 lasted over two years negotiating, and we went through nine 2:19:02.720 --> 2:19:07.439 strikes and threatened a tenth and until we got an agreement. 2:19:08.040 --> 2:19:13.560 So our hospital, obviously it's Altibates Hospital in Berkeley. Our 2:19:13.720 --> 2:19:18.279 sister hospital Summit Hospital in Oakland, and we have affiliated 2:19:18.320 --> 2:19:23.280 with us is the Herrot Campus, which is the the 2:19:23.400 --> 2:19:31.360 psychiatric facility. And we have struggled so much through this pandemic, 2:19:32.480 --> 2:19:35.360 and it was amazing to us that we came up 2:19:37.120 --> 2:19:40.040 with less than what we should have gotten. I will 2:19:40.080 --> 2:19:43.600 tell you that thanks to Sarah and meeting all these 2:19:43.600 --> 2:19:47.280 other nurses. We were able to come back, and I 2:19:47.320 --> 2:19:52.240 think through fear and intimidation, our union was forced to 2:19:52.280 --> 2:19:57.520 back us and we're able to get economically what we wanted. 2:19:58.000 --> 2:20:00.200 But like the rest of the country is nurse is, 2:20:00.240 --> 2:20:04.800 we wanted better staffing, we needed more more bodies at 2:20:04.800 --> 2:20:11.360 the bedside. We're overworked, we're fatigued. Raina worked in the 2:20:11.680 --> 2:20:15.160 ICU and they had their own COVID unit there. Um, 2:20:16.640 --> 2:20:18.960 I don't think there was enough tums and roll aids 2:20:19.000 --> 2:20:24.800 to go around for all those nurses. The anxiety and um, 2:20:26.080 --> 2:20:28.080 you know, the heart in your throat. And of course 2:20:28.320 --> 2:20:32.200 John himself, I don't want to his personal business, but 2:20:32.640 --> 2:20:36.840 you know his experience. He has long COVID. So we 2:20:36.840 --> 2:20:39.760 we as nurses, have suffered quite a bit and we 2:20:39.840 --> 2:20:44.080 expected a lot more from our union. Yeah, and I 2:20:44.120 --> 2:20:48.520 mean even just on a very basic level, like no 2:20:48.520 --> 2:20:50.480 matter what you go through, you have the right for 2:20:50.480 --> 2:20:53.040 your union not to light you. Let's see, this is 2:20:53.240 --> 2:20:59.280 a very elementary sort of that. That's a really elementary thing. Yeah, 2:20:59.400 --> 2:21:06.879 but it's really, um, it's really scary how comfortable some 2:21:06.959 --> 2:21:10.360 of the people who are paid their wages out of 2:21:10.360 --> 2:21:14.080 our dues are with lying to us. I think that's 2:21:14.080 --> 2:21:17.720 a thing that like, um, you know, like we're one 2:21:17.760 --> 2:21:20.520 of the things we're specifically fighting for is like transparency 2:21:20.560 --> 2:21:28.600 and accountability, especially for our staff. And you know, when I, 2:21:28.760 --> 2:21:30.720 you know, Eric mentioned that I had had long COVID, 2:21:30.800 --> 2:21:33.120 I'm finally getting I've been to the point where I'm 2:21:33.240 --> 2:21:35.760 like as recovered as I probably ever will be, and 2:21:36.000 --> 2:21:39.480 which is great. You know, being recovered from long COVID 2:21:39.560 --> 2:21:43.720 is so much better than having long COVID. But you know, 2:21:44.240 --> 2:21:46.160 I was always like someone that they came to to 2:21:46.200 --> 2:21:49.760 ask for help with like political sorts of issues inside 2:21:49.760 --> 2:21:53.640 the union, where they would come to me for Medicare 2:21:53.680 --> 2:21:59.480 for all or um, you know, speaking around things like 2:21:59.600 --> 2:22:02.000 ratio was that sort of stuff. Or they would send 2:22:02.040 --> 2:22:04.360 me off to When the Chicago teachers went on strike 2:22:04.400 --> 2:22:07.760 in twenty nineteen, I was sent to speak on behalf 2:22:07.800 --> 2:22:09.800 of our union for them, and you know, just doing 2:22:09.840 --> 2:22:12.960 the work of I'm kind of a I'm a bit 2:22:13.000 --> 2:22:19.920 of an agitator. And then COVID hit and it was 2:22:20.600 --> 2:22:26.520 just a really surreal experience. And my area, the hospital 2:22:26.879 --> 2:22:29.879 is one of those places where they basically did everything 2:22:29.920 --> 2:22:32.280 they could to minimize the amount of surgeries we were 2:22:32.320 --> 2:22:34.960 doing initially when the lockdowns were happening for the first 2:22:35.000 --> 2:22:39.080 six months of pandemic, and then but they were moving 2:22:39.160 --> 2:22:42.000 us into because we are all former ICU nurses, so 2:22:42.080 --> 2:22:44.080 I would do my shift a few shifts up in 2:22:44.080 --> 2:22:47.440 the medical U than we made a special clean ICU 2:22:47.560 --> 2:22:50.640 because we were still getting traumas. A University of Chicago 2:22:51.200 --> 2:22:57.400 apparently sees more penetrating gunshot and stab wounds than any 2:22:57.440 --> 2:23:00.680 other hospital in the United States. Thirty percent of traumas 2:23:00.680 --> 2:23:07.640 are are from some sort of violence, which is substantially 2:23:07.680 --> 2:23:12.400 higher than anywhere else in the US. And then I 2:23:12.480 --> 2:23:15.320 got sick, right, and so to me, the union was 2:23:15.360 --> 2:23:16.960 like a thing that was like, man, this is nice 2:23:16.959 --> 2:23:19.680 to have. I had never worked at any union hospital before. 2:23:20.360 --> 2:23:23.080 Getting union raises was like a big step up in 2:23:23.160 --> 2:23:28.000 my life, you know. And it was also like, oh, yeah, 2:23:28.000 --> 2:23:30.760 our union's progressive, Like I kind of I like most 2:23:30.760 --> 2:23:35.680 of the things that it stands for, and I didn't 2:23:35.720 --> 2:23:38.199 really think of it as someone that needed the union 2:23:38.400 --> 2:23:40.720 right to do. The things that unions really kind of 2:23:40.760 --> 2:23:43.000 like is the bread and butter of unions, which is 2:23:43.040 --> 2:23:46.560 like coming in and like helping you when you need help. 2:23:46.800 --> 2:23:51.000 As an individual worker, and you know, when you're not 2:23:51.040 --> 2:23:53.840 in the middle of like a contract negotiation, and I 2:23:53.879 --> 2:23:58.200 got sick with long COVID and lost. We had negotiated 2:23:58.200 --> 2:24:03.279 this great you know, like COVID six pay policy, and 2:24:03.959 --> 2:24:07.600 management just took that away without like from me, without 2:24:07.600 --> 2:24:11.080 really giving any notice or you know, explaination why. And 2:24:11.840 --> 2:24:14.200 you sit there trying to get like the help that 2:24:14.280 --> 2:24:17.440 you need from your Union's like I'm trying to explain 2:24:17.600 --> 2:24:19.720 why it is that like this is a problem for 2:24:19.840 --> 2:24:23.360 me to our labor rep, who's like our they called 2:24:23.360 --> 2:24:26.040 them business agents, labor reps whatever. There are people who 2:24:26.800 --> 2:24:30.800 basically are paid out of our dues to kind of 2:24:31.240 --> 2:24:35.320 help us in theory like stay organized and be pushing 2:24:35.400 --> 2:24:39.920 management to do, you know, to follow the contract. And 2:24:40.560 --> 2:24:44.160 it got to the point where like my partner who's 2:24:44.240 --> 2:24:46.880 like is like literally screaming at the labor repel. I'm 2:24:46.879 --> 2:24:48.760 on the phone with the labor rep and she's, you know, 2:24:48.920 --> 2:24:51.080 just like what the fuck is your union even doing? 2:24:51.200 --> 2:24:53.400 Like why are they not making sure that you're taking 2:24:53.440 --> 2:24:55.680 care of And it was like this really like come 2:24:55.720 --> 2:24:58.360 to Jesus moment where you're like, oh, yeah, like this 2:24:58.600 --> 2:25:02.920 union ship isn't just like you know, platitudes about like 2:25:02.920 --> 2:25:05.760 we need a ratio bill in Illinois or you know, 2:25:06.280 --> 2:25:09.040 Medicare for all or Bernie Sanders. It's like, oh, this 2:25:09.080 --> 2:25:13.320 shit is actually like about my material well being and 2:25:13.440 --> 2:25:16.119 like my family still hasn't recovered from all that because 2:25:16.160 --> 2:25:20.120 they only you know, after an enormous amount of pressure 2:25:20.280 --> 2:25:23.080 was put on staff, they finally started looking into it, 2:25:23.800 --> 2:25:27.560 um and we got you know, payouts for not just me, 2:25:27.680 --> 2:25:30.400 but for ten other nurses who had had their COVID 2:25:30.480 --> 2:25:36.600 pay like cut, you like, really unjust ways um. And 2:25:36.680 --> 2:25:38.920 it really opened my eyes as to like what a 2:25:39.120 --> 2:25:42.080 union should be doing. Um. And it really opened my 2:25:42.120 --> 2:25:45.640 eyes that maybe there's a problem with how staff interact 2:25:45.720 --> 2:25:50.840 with us as workers, because like there should be um. 2:25:51.440 --> 2:25:53.280 You know, we try and like say, like you know, 2:25:53.320 --> 2:25:58.000 there's a service union service business or service unionism, and 2:25:58.000 --> 2:26:00.640 then there's rank and value unionism. We had this weird 2:26:00.680 --> 2:26:02.760 situation union where they tell us where a rank and 2:26:02.800 --> 2:26:08.680 file democratic union, except the staff kind of treat us like, 2:26:08.879 --> 2:26:11.199 you know, it's a business union. So we get told 2:26:11.240 --> 2:26:14.280 one thing, but then we see another thing and like 2:26:15.760 --> 2:26:19.880 not that I think that like, uh, it's you know, 2:26:20.400 --> 2:26:22.280 the whole point of a union, you kind of pull 2:26:22.320 --> 2:26:24.240 together to take care of people who can't necessarily take 2:26:24.280 --> 2:26:26.960 care of themselves in that moment, and like, it just 2:26:27.000 --> 2:26:30.280 took an enormous amount of effort on my family's part 2:26:30.320 --> 2:26:34.240 to like get that moving, and it just seemed incredibly 2:26:34.320 --> 2:26:36.039 It was just very eye opening for me as a 2:26:36.280 --> 2:26:41.240 you know, my experience here in Chicago. No, that that's 2:26:41.320 --> 2:26:43.800 really bleak. I mean that that's another thing that you 2:26:43.800 --> 2:26:47.879 would you know, you would expect a union like to 2:26:48.080 --> 2:26:50.440 just be on top of not not even just a 2:26:50.520 --> 2:26:53.160 sort of oh well, you asked them and they started 2:26:53.160 --> 2:26:55.560 doing it. Like you you would think that, hey, the 2:26:55.600 --> 2:26:58.640 people who got COVID doing this job not getting paid 2:26:59.360 --> 2:27:02.000 what they're to be getting paid would be like a 2:27:02.040 --> 2:27:03.879 priority and not something you have to fight them over. 2:27:04.760 --> 2:27:10.480 That is, Oh, that is incredibly krim. I don't know, well, 2:27:10.520 --> 2:27:13.240 I haven't a story for you. So my first year 2:27:13.800 --> 2:27:18.160 working at out debates. Before that, I was working in 2:27:18.240 --> 2:27:22.680 Swaller hospitals and they gave you certain packages about your benefits. 2:27:23.440 --> 2:27:26.000 So when it was time for me to get my benefits, 2:27:26.000 --> 2:27:28.200 I couldn't get my benefits at all because during that 2:27:28.280 --> 2:27:31.000 time they were doing it at the yearly. So I said, 2:27:31.000 --> 2:27:33.920 is there any way possible at least to get something, 2:27:34.040 --> 2:27:36.360 because mind you, they are paying for my benefits, I'm 2:27:36.360 --> 2:27:40.039 not paying for it anything for it that there should 2:27:40.040 --> 2:27:42.320 be a reason because if I had any medical issues, 2:27:43.680 --> 2:27:48.520 what would happen? And basically the union was very lackluster 2:27:48.640 --> 2:27:50.720 about it. Now, of course I went to the manager, 2:27:51.160 --> 2:27:54.680 went to human resources. Basically they basically told me where 2:27:54.720 --> 2:27:58.280 there's eighteen hundred nurses, and you know what we're going 2:27:58.320 --> 2:28:02.760 to do about this issue, and pretty much it was. 2:28:04.879 --> 2:28:07.200 It's pretty much disappeared about it. There was nothing I 2:28:07.200 --> 2:28:10.400 could do so for that whole year, so I worked 2:28:10.560 --> 2:28:15.280 in January of twenty fifteen, I had to wait till 2:28:15.280 --> 2:28:19.959 the following year to get benefits, to get medical benefits. 2:28:20.080 --> 2:28:23.160 J Now, I got everything else, so let be honest, 2:28:23.200 --> 2:28:25.720 I got everything else, but the medical benefits is important. 2:28:25.760 --> 2:28:28.920 But thank god I don't have any health issues. Thank 2:28:28.959 --> 2:28:32.320 god my daughters didn't have any health issues where we 2:28:32.400 --> 2:28:35.840 didn't require any help and there wasn't in an emergency. 2:28:36.480 --> 2:28:39.600 But when I started noticing there were other nurses or 2:28:39.720 --> 2:28:41.720 teas that were spirits of the same thing, because a 2:28:41.720 --> 2:28:44.960 lot of us got hired within that time, frame. They 2:28:45.000 --> 2:28:48.800 weren't telling us these issues, and we would end up 2:28:48.800 --> 2:28:53.280 getting these things sooner. And it's all about the transparency, 2:28:53.879 --> 2:28:57.280 It's all about our value. And then over the years 2:28:57.360 --> 2:29:02.600 people always complain on these dudes, why are they're not helping? 2:29:02.640 --> 2:29:06.800 Why are not supportive? And when I was actually hired, 2:29:07.120 --> 2:29:10.000 they were quick to give you the paperwork to tell 2:29:10.040 --> 2:29:12.240 you how to pay this all so they could take 2:29:12.280 --> 2:29:15.480 money off your dues. Quicker than what about the history 2:29:15.600 --> 2:29:19.040 about the union? Why is the history is? Why is 2:29:19.080 --> 2:29:22.960 the union important? And what you can do if there's 2:29:23.000 --> 2:29:26.160 a grievemance? There was none of that, And to this 2:29:26.280 --> 2:29:30.080 day it's still the same thing because I precept new 2:29:30.160 --> 2:29:32.960 grads and I tell them about, you know, part of 2:29:33.000 --> 2:29:35.359 the union. What he got, Oh I didn't get a booklet, 2:29:36.160 --> 2:29:38.200 or oh I didn't hear anything about it, but I 2:29:38.240 --> 2:29:41.520 got this paper here so they could take out my dues. 2:29:42.080 --> 2:29:45.880 That's what pisses me off of anything. Is that part 2:29:46.879 --> 2:29:53.360 so so? And then all this stuff dealing with what 2:29:53.520 --> 2:29:55.440 Eric has told you, what we've been doing with the 2:29:55.480 --> 2:30:00.800 strikes and the negotiations. Me personally, we should done negotiates 2:30:00.800 --> 2:30:03.080 it within the first year the pandemic and I think 2:30:03.080 --> 2:30:05.640 we got everything, but they were quick to say, no, 2:30:05.959 --> 2:30:08.680 we're going to get all these facilities all together at 2:30:08.720 --> 2:30:11.520 one and so we can all negotiate. And then the 2:30:11.560 --> 2:30:15.000 gag order happened, the slam of the gag order, and 2:30:15.080 --> 2:30:18.040 I'm like, there is a lot of collusion going on 2:30:18.120 --> 2:30:23.160 and that shit needs to stop. So, I mean, things 2:30:23.160 --> 2:30:25.200 that they don't really tell us, which I think is 2:30:25.240 --> 2:30:27.800 really a thing that we want to resolve, is they 2:30:27.840 --> 2:30:30.400 don't really inform you of what your union rights are. 2:30:30.959 --> 2:30:32.879 You kind of get the initial like here's your wine 2:30:32.879 --> 2:30:34.320 garden rights, which means that you have a right to 2:30:34.720 --> 2:30:38.720 representation whenever you're being disciplined. But aside from that, there's 2:30:38.840 --> 2:30:43.359 very little discussion inside of our union facilities, in particular 2:30:43.520 --> 2:30:48.680 about the kinds of things that we have as like 2:30:48.879 --> 2:30:51.920 union members, what our rights are, what are our rights 2:30:52.000 --> 2:30:56.320 within the union, how the union works. So many of 2:30:56.360 --> 2:30:59.000 my co workers don't like a big part of our 2:30:59.040 --> 2:31:01.680 work is just explore aiming that there's an election happening, 2:31:02.440 --> 2:31:06.160 and so you would hear that an election it happened, 2:31:06.200 --> 2:31:09.600 maybe and you know, you would be like, well, who voted, 2:31:09.640 --> 2:31:13.560 I don't know, like and you'd get these like you know, 2:31:14.640 --> 2:31:18.600 all of the communication from about the election to us 2:31:18.640 --> 2:31:21.599 as the people who are like the you know, the opposition, 2:31:22.160 --> 2:31:25.960 has all been in these very like plane plane envelopes 2:31:25.959 --> 2:31:28.480 that don't look like anything like it could be like 2:31:28.560 --> 2:31:32.760 just an anonymous bill you wouldn't know or junk mail. 2:31:33.360 --> 2:31:36.600 And so like, you know, as a union member, you 2:31:36.680 --> 2:31:42.240 have something called a right to represent representation. So and 2:31:42.440 --> 2:31:47.840 every union, every union employee and elected officer is considered 2:31:47.840 --> 2:31:51.480 a fiduciary, has a fiduciary obligation to look out for 2:31:51.520 --> 2:31:54.480 your financial interests, and if they don't do that, it's 2:31:54.520 --> 2:31:59.120 called a failure to represent our union. In particular, Spends 2:32:00.160 --> 2:32:04.520 had brags internally about never having a They called them 2:32:04.600 --> 2:32:08.320 unfair labor practice. Like if a nurse or any worker 2:32:08.360 --> 2:32:11.680 in any union decides that their union, you know, did 2:32:11.720 --> 2:32:14.920 not represent them in their financial interests, they can file 2:32:15.000 --> 2:32:18.360 something called an unfair labor practice claim for failure to 2:32:18.400 --> 2:32:22.440 represent our union. Is like, they've never had an unfair 2:32:22.520 --> 2:32:25.879 labor practice claim. Stick we foy had one of their 2:32:25.959 --> 2:32:29.360 unfair labor practice claims and somehow it got like withdrawn 2:32:29.879 --> 2:32:33.720 like in this really like sketchy way, and it was 2:32:33.760 --> 2:32:35.720 like just a random one that we picked to to 2:32:35.760 --> 2:32:39.360 see what happened, and so then it got like assigned 2:32:39.480 --> 2:32:44.240 like a special like liaison like afterwards, like they're like, oh, 2:32:44.280 --> 2:32:47.080 we weren't supposed to do that, like when we contacted 2:32:47.080 --> 2:32:50.240 the Department of Labor, We're going to look at that 2:32:50.400 --> 2:32:53.360 again and figure out what's going on with this. And 2:32:53.400 --> 2:32:56.280 it also turns out when we started doing research, which 2:32:56.320 --> 2:32:58.879 I think every union member listening to this should know, 2:32:59.080 --> 2:33:03.280 every union has to file paperwork. They're legal. There's legally 2:33:03.280 --> 2:33:07.760 mandated reporting. So there's things called LM two's and nine 2:33:07.959 --> 2:33:10.680 nineties that you can get from the Office of Labor Management. 2:33:10.760 --> 2:33:14.080 You google them and they'll figure you can search for 2:33:14.120 --> 2:33:18.600 your own union and you get to see the union finances. 2:33:18.680 --> 2:33:20.680 And we found out that there's like forty two million 2:33:20.720 --> 2:33:23.800 dollars that our union chief in the bank account. And 2:33:23.879 --> 2:33:28.480 this goes to there was an article it wasn't Jacobin, 2:33:28.520 --> 2:33:31.720 I'm not sure about, like the financialization of unions and 2:33:31.959 --> 2:33:34.280 for like forty two million dollars, what is that? It's 2:33:34.480 --> 2:33:36.520 like and they you know, unions will practice like, oh, 2:33:36.560 --> 2:33:38.640 we've got a forty two million dollars war chest, but like, 2:33:38.680 --> 2:33:40.720 what are we spending that forty two million dollars on 2:33:41.800 --> 2:33:44.840 is it to like fight arbitrations and constantly be making 2:33:44.879 --> 2:33:47.800 like our like working conditions better and taking fights to 2:33:47.800 --> 2:33:50.600 the bosses. It's like, no, Actually, what they're doing is 2:33:50.640 --> 2:33:54.279 they're spending that money on settling unfair labor practice claims, 2:33:54.280 --> 2:33:58.199 so they don't actually officially stick. So the war chests 2:33:58.240 --> 2:34:00.920 and even against the you know, isn't to go to 2:34:01.000 --> 2:34:04.040 war against our you know, supposed you know, I mean 2:34:04.440 --> 2:34:06.680 to go to war against management. It's to go to 2:34:06.800 --> 2:34:10.360 war against kind of us. When you think about it, 2:34:10.360 --> 2:34:12.800 it's just it's just so wild when you start digging 2:34:12.800 --> 2:34:15.840 into this stuff, it's just crazy. Um, Eric, you want 2:34:15.840 --> 2:34:20.960 to tell them about the Office of Oakland. Yeah, so 2:34:21.240 --> 2:34:24.640 obviously we're in the heart of the empire. Um. You know, 2:34:24.720 --> 2:34:28.360 I live of just a few miles from the CNA 2:34:28.440 --> 2:34:32.440 headquarters and I've been there many times prior to the pandemic, um, 2:34:33.120 --> 2:34:38.080 you know, and I have taken part in lobbying in Washington, 2:34:38.200 --> 2:34:41.920 DC on behalf of the union. You know, nurses from 2:34:41.959 --> 2:34:44.960 all across the country that are in the union go 2:34:45.040 --> 2:34:49.400 to DC and we lobby for uh, you know, not 2:34:49.440 --> 2:34:52.840 only for single payer UH and medicare for all but 2:34:53.840 --> 2:34:58.240 you know, individual bills that will benefit nurses across the country, 2:34:58.320 --> 2:35:02.360 whether they're in the union or not. And you know, 2:35:02.600 --> 2:35:05.680 I'm very familiar with it. I've lobbied in Sacramento, and 2:35:05.720 --> 2:35:09.520 I've bent to the NNU convention in Minnesota. So I've 2:35:09.560 --> 2:35:12.320 met a lot of nurses across our union. In fact, 2:35:12.879 --> 2:35:16.440 it's one of the when you do that, that's about 2:35:16.440 --> 2:35:18.960 the only time you get to reach out and see 2:35:19.040 --> 2:35:23.760 other union members. One of the things I will tell 2:35:23.800 --> 2:35:27.440 you that John and I and the person that's not 2:35:27.560 --> 2:35:30.360 on the call right now is Mark Goodick. He is 2:35:30.560 --> 2:35:33.800 an American citizen now, but he was a Canadian nurse 2:35:33.920 --> 2:35:38.360 before and he is right now working on our campaign 2:35:38.520 --> 2:35:44.680 video to introduce us to a broader audience. And that's 2:35:44.680 --> 2:35:48.959 why he's not on the call tonight. We should be 2:35:50.320 --> 2:35:55.560 intermingling and talking with other nurses across the country. I 2:35:55.600 --> 2:35:59.320 should not be siloed here in Oakland and not knowing 2:36:00.080 --> 2:36:05.720 that what a nurse is doing in Texas. And yeah, 2:36:05.840 --> 2:36:09.640 we need to be part of our pledges that we 2:36:10.280 --> 2:36:16.160 need to join hands across this country. Every nurse needs 2:36:16.160 --> 2:36:20.200 to see. We need to digitalize our contract. We need 2:36:20.240 --> 2:36:24.879 to see University of Chicago's contract digitalized. We need to 2:36:24.920 --> 2:36:27.880 be sharing our contracts so we know what good things 2:36:27.920 --> 2:36:31.119 that maybe they got in Texas, or what good things 2:36:31.120 --> 2:36:33.760 they got at the University of Chicago, or what good 2:36:33.760 --> 2:36:36.320 things we have in our contract. We need to see 2:36:36.320 --> 2:36:39.200 that nurses can say, hey, I want that language. We 2:36:39.240 --> 2:36:41.320 need to be sharing that. I don't know why it's 2:36:41.360 --> 2:36:45.640 not happening or why it's just at the upper tiers 2:36:45.680 --> 2:36:49.120 of union management that they see these things, but we 2:36:50.160 --> 2:36:55.680 need to be joined together. No more siloing nurses. You know, 2:36:55.840 --> 2:37:01.360 altivates the nurses stay in your lane, Kaiser, stay in 2:37:01.400 --> 2:37:05.320 your lane, University of Chicago staying You're like, no, no no, no, no. 2:37:05.400 --> 2:37:11.880 We need to be one fighting body for the betterment 2:37:11.959 --> 2:37:16.640 of nurses. Uh doubt. You know, it's amazing when you 2:37:16.720 --> 2:37:21.160 find out that we have a beautiful building that the 2:37:21.280 --> 2:37:25.400 union purchased in downtown Oakland. Um. You know, they only 2:37:25.440 --> 2:37:27.960 occupy a few floors of it and they rent out 2:37:28.000 --> 2:37:33.439 the rest, and you know what, it is a fabulous 2:37:33.440 --> 2:37:36.440 building and it would be great for it to be 2:37:36.480 --> 2:37:41.080 a headquarters where we're we're not just fighting and lobbying 2:37:41.160 --> 2:37:48.200 for Democratic politicians, but we're actually fighting for nurses at 2:37:48.200 --> 2:37:52.920 the bedside and that's what you know. Our whole mission 2:37:53.040 --> 2:37:54.879 is that we're going to be running for is for 2:37:54.959 --> 2:38:00.080 the council presidents. We need to take the macro focus 2:38:00.120 --> 2:38:03.880 down to what is happening at the bedside for every 2:38:03.959 --> 2:38:07.039 nurse across the country and make the change for the 2:38:07.080 --> 2:38:11.760 better for them. And that's the big difference here. I'm 2:38:11.840 --> 2:38:15.879 all for an activist union and I think and we 2:38:15.959 --> 2:38:18.960 have been the union is active, and you know climate 2:38:19.040 --> 2:38:22.640 change and you know how the environment affects the community. 2:38:23.840 --> 2:38:27.720 These things are important, but it's more important that we 2:38:28.240 --> 2:38:31.440 take care of the nurses at the bedside and offer 2:38:31.480 --> 2:38:34.760 opportunities for those nurses who want to be involved to 2:38:34.959 --> 2:38:38.320 make the community better. We need to have those resources 2:38:38.320 --> 2:38:41.760 available for them. And if we make nurses lives at 2:38:41.760 --> 2:38:45.039 the bedside better, we're going to have more nurses available 2:38:45.080 --> 2:38:48.200 to make the community better. And that's what we need 2:38:48.280 --> 2:38:52.280 to be working on. It is a it is going 2:38:52.320 --> 2:38:59.160 to be a fight. I can't be more more honest 2:38:59.200 --> 2:39:04.080 than to tell you we are David versus Goliath. We 2:39:04.240 --> 2:39:12.000 are four nurses who really have no big national exposure. 2:39:12.520 --> 2:39:15.400 But the most important thing we have is that we're 2:39:15.440 --> 2:39:20.640 bedside nurses and we know what's important for bedside nurses. 2:39:21.280 --> 2:39:23.640 I do want to say, like, there's four of us 2:39:23.720 --> 2:39:27.600 who are running for the for the council presidents, but 2:39:28.240 --> 2:39:30.760 we would not be even talking to you if we 2:39:30.800 --> 2:39:35.480 didn't have like at least one hundred nurses all over 2:39:35.800 --> 2:39:38.600 like the hospitals that we're based in, like doing the 2:39:38.600 --> 2:39:42.080 work of building our campaign. So I do want to 2:39:42.120 --> 2:39:45.960 point out that, like, because like our slate is like 2:39:46.440 --> 2:39:49.760 three white guys and it's Raina, and Raina is like 2:39:50.040 --> 2:39:54.160 and we want to make sure that we're not that 2:39:54.440 --> 2:39:57.560 it's we made a cho The choice that we made 2:39:57.720 --> 2:40:00.680 was not you know, us coming to together as four 2:40:00.680 --> 2:40:03.360 individuals being like we should fix the union by ourselves. 2:40:03.840 --> 2:40:07.360 It was this we keep mentioning labor notes, there's a 2:40:07.400 --> 2:40:10.320 healthcare worker chat with a fair number of nurses in 2:40:10.360 --> 2:40:14.240 our union. And we noticed that there was an election 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:16.280 coming up. And this is also at the time when 2:40:16.879 --> 2:40:20.039 both altbates was having their issues. And then in Cook 2:40:20.040 --> 2:40:24.840 County we had a particularly traumatic firing of a very 2:40:24.879 --> 2:40:32.240 popular staffer who without any without any input from the 2:40:32.400 --> 2:40:36.520 local nurses or elected local nurse leadership. And we got 2:40:36.560 --> 2:40:38.160 together and we all were like, what are we going 2:40:38.240 --> 2:40:42.360 to do this is crazy, and we had people like 2:40:42.440 --> 2:40:44.760 we are like, well, who would do Like, we have 2:40:44.840 --> 2:40:47.480 this opportunity and if we run as a slate, we 2:40:47.520 --> 2:40:50.440 can do things like get access to we can send 2:40:50.480 --> 2:40:53.680 emails out to other nurses and break down those silos 2:40:53.720 --> 2:40:58.560 connect nurses from across the country. And we're like, well, 2:40:58.600 --> 2:41:01.520 if we don't do anything, we're kind of stuck in 2:41:01.560 --> 2:41:04.160 this kind of like square one. You know, a few 2:41:04.200 --> 2:41:08.800 small hospitals talking to each other, not small, but you know, 2:41:08.920 --> 2:41:11.880 a few hospitals talking to each other, still struggling against 2:41:11.959 --> 2:41:13.960 like these kind of silos that have been constructed for 2:41:14.040 --> 2:41:17.720 us by staff. And we had a vote and there 2:41:17.800 --> 2:41:21.280 was you know, over twenty nurses all together raise their 2:41:21.280 --> 2:41:24.160 hands and where like, we could do this with an 2:41:24.200 --> 2:41:27.320 imperfect group of people that we recognize asn't like the 2:41:27.760 --> 2:41:31.640 fully representative of everyone in the union, but are fully 2:41:31.640 --> 2:41:36.360 committed to democratizing the union, or we could sit and wait. 2:41:36.640 --> 2:41:40.680 And a nurse who had been in the union for 2:41:40.720 --> 2:41:43.680 a very long time and she's now retired, said, if 2:41:43.720 --> 2:41:45.920 you all don't take this chance, you don't know what 2:41:45.959 --> 2:41:48.760 could happen in you know, three years from now union 2:41:48.800 --> 2:41:52.720 could be completely different and so two thirds of everyone 2:41:52.760 --> 2:41:55.240 in that call said it's time to go, and we 2:41:55.320 --> 2:41:58.440 don't care. We would rather that you run and take 2:41:58.480 --> 2:42:02.120 that swing and maybe get big for all of us. 2:42:02.640 --> 2:42:06.680 So a big part of what we're doing is got 2:42:06.760 --> 2:42:09.920 like I've got a meeting with you know, Cook County 2:42:10.000 --> 2:42:13.120 nurses on Thursday, and they're all basically going to come 2:42:13.120 --> 2:42:14.680 to me and tell me all the ship that I 2:42:14.720 --> 2:42:18.720 need to do for them, not the other way around. 2:42:19.480 --> 2:42:24.320 When you're the rank and file leadership, you know, it's 2:42:24.360 --> 2:42:27.080 like taking that pyramid and you invert it, right. The 2:42:27.160 --> 2:42:31.440 people who are matter the most are the regular bedside nurses, 2:42:31.959 --> 2:42:35.920 And all we can do, as like people who step 2:42:36.000 --> 2:42:38.600 up into that role is we take that. We take 2:42:38.680 --> 2:42:42.160 that heat and put ourselves out there so that we 2:42:42.200 --> 2:42:45.280 can enact what our coworkers are asking us for. I 2:42:45.360 --> 2:42:48.960 literally have co workers walking up to me completely unsolicited. 2:42:49.040 --> 2:42:51.240 I'm a very like I'm not walking around telling I 2:42:51.320 --> 2:42:53.680 like I told a few people up front in the beginning, 2:42:53.720 --> 2:42:55.640 because I was like, all right, you're about to see 2:42:55.640 --> 2:42:57.879 my face on some flyers, let me tell you why. 2:42:59.040 --> 2:43:02.720 But I now have coworkers coming to me and they're like, John, 2:43:02.720 --> 2:43:05.320 you've got to tell me what's going on because I 2:43:05.400 --> 2:43:06.800 heard a little bit about it and I need to 2:43:06.840 --> 2:43:11.080 help you. I'm just like, okay, it's very it's like 2:43:11.480 --> 2:43:13.240 it's a little bit like a drug. But I have 2:43:13.280 --> 2:43:16.400 to be careful because like I like, I can't let 2:43:16.440 --> 2:43:19.160 this whole thing like none of this. We all have 2:43:19.200 --> 2:43:22.240 to stay humble as they're doing this. Because all four 2:43:22.280 --> 2:43:25.560 of us, John, all four of us were volunteering to 2:43:25.600 --> 2:43:30.960 help other people to run exactly. We were like, okay, 2:43:31.000 --> 2:43:35.280 we're here, you know, John, are raining on myself, We're 2:43:35.400 --> 2:43:38.560 here to help you. Guys who's running now, I'm going 2:43:38.640 --> 2:43:41.640 to help you. We're gonna help you. And then it's 2:43:41.680 --> 2:43:46.959 like their crickets, you know, and it's like and it 2:43:47.000 --> 2:43:50.000 goes to show exactly what happened. It goes to show 2:43:50.040 --> 2:43:53.440 how impoverished the internal democracy of our union is that 2:43:53.560 --> 2:43:58.160 people who are leaders already did not feel comfortable or 2:43:58.440 --> 2:44:01.920 prepared to take on that kind of leadership role. You know, 2:44:01.959 --> 2:44:04.439 these are nurses who have been in our union for decades, 2:44:05.720 --> 2:44:10.439 who are taking fights to their bosses all the time already, 2:44:10.760 --> 2:44:13.080 and they did not feel that they knew enough about 2:44:13.080 --> 2:44:18.800 the union. Because there's an intentional I believe like obscuring 2:44:18.920 --> 2:44:22.920 of how the union works. And that's like how you 2:44:23.040 --> 2:44:25.000 end up with a situation where people are like, well, 2:44:25.040 --> 2:44:27.360 I guess we're just kicking the door down for all 2:44:27.400 --> 2:44:30.000 these people who we know will be doing it better 2:44:30.160 --> 2:44:32.360 when when we get it situated so that they can 2:44:32.400 --> 2:44:35.800 do it better. It's amazing though, to tell us that 2:44:36.160 --> 2:44:39.560 an America and History class, or you have Civics class, 2:44:39.840 --> 2:44:42.520 you learn about the US government, right, you know how 2:44:42.560 --> 2:44:46.280 it functions, how it runs. But when it comes to 2:44:46.320 --> 2:44:49.600 our union, we were all asking each other. You know, 2:44:49.640 --> 2:44:55.440 we're putting pieces together. Oh wait, I know the council presidents. Yeah, well, 2:44:55.480 --> 2:44:58.039 how does this person fit into it? How does the 2:44:58.120 --> 2:45:01.960 board fit into this? Well does the election run? How 2:45:02.080 --> 2:45:05.320 is it done? We had no We had to search 2:45:05.440 --> 2:45:08.960 out the answers. We had to call all sorts of people, 2:45:09.200 --> 2:45:12.680 and we were only getting bits and pieces. There should 2:45:12.720 --> 2:45:16.359 be a clear outline of how you run a democracy 2:45:16.600 --> 2:45:20.160 and a union. I mean, it shouldn't even be that difficult. 2:45:20.360 --> 2:45:24.240 You know, obviously there'd be specific rules for the union, 2:45:24.600 --> 2:45:28.840 but they shouldn't be occluded. They should be you know, 2:45:28.879 --> 2:45:33.240 there shouldn't be occulted from the members. We should clearly 2:45:33.320 --> 2:45:39.840 know how you step forward to be a more of 2:45:39.879 --> 2:45:42.800 a contributing member to the union to run and to 2:45:42.920 --> 2:45:46.000 serve the others in the union. And that was an 2:45:46.040 --> 2:45:51.760 amazing thing that we're finding out amongst each other. It's like, wow, 2:45:51.280 --> 2:45:54.480 how how does our union run? I mean, how why 2:45:54.560 --> 2:45:58.000 is it difficult to find out these things? And I 2:45:58.000 --> 2:46:01.640 mean I don't think it's insurmountable for us. I don't 2:46:01.680 --> 2:46:05.360 think that should disqualify us. I don't think if we 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:08.440 can step in and do healthcare in a pandemic, we 2:46:08.480 --> 2:46:13.200 can very easily learn how to how the union functions 2:46:13.760 --> 2:46:17.879 and a quick, a quick little tutorial. I don't think 2:46:17.920 --> 2:46:21.000 that's going to be a big deal for us. But yeah, 2:46:21.040 --> 2:46:24.360 it's pretty amazing if we're talking about democracy and the union. 2:46:24.959 --> 2:46:29.400 How is it that it takes I mean to find 2:46:29.440 --> 2:46:31.840 the buy laws. We can all tell you it took 2:46:32.000 --> 2:46:34.480 a tremendous amount of effort to find the by laws 2:46:34.800 --> 2:46:37.560 that are runs by hold on, hold on, let me 2:46:37.560 --> 2:46:40.080 tell sorry about the by laws. So we have a 2:46:40.240 --> 2:46:44.280 nurse in Chicago who decided to make a pain of 2:46:44.320 --> 2:46:47.520 themselves about how to get the by laws and then 2:46:47.480 --> 2:46:50.080 instead they went to the union, Like I want to 2:46:50.080 --> 2:46:51.360 see the by laws. I want to see the by 2:46:51.440 --> 2:46:53.760 laws and they were lists like you know, like and 2:46:53.840 --> 2:46:58.280 they give them the runaround, and eventually they gave him. 2:46:58.480 --> 2:47:01.720 He got personally to the liver envelope that was like 2:47:02.040 --> 2:47:05.320 a photocopy of a photocopy of photocopy of the by laws. 2:47:07.080 --> 2:47:09.840 And it's funny because the legally, the by laws are 2:47:09.840 --> 2:47:12.039 all spops to be filed with the federal government. And 2:47:12.400 --> 2:47:15.560 like from our pressure and organizing to figure out how 2:47:15.560 --> 2:47:17.760 our union worked, they had to publish the newest set 2:47:17.760 --> 2:47:22.160 of by laws and on the federal reporting websites. UM. 2:47:22.720 --> 2:47:25.840 I was in Oakland in twenty nineteen for the Global 2:47:25.879 --> 2:47:28.080 Nurse Assembly and there was an after party and it 2:47:28.240 --> 2:47:30.080 was a bunch of staffers and like, you know, some 2:47:30.240 --> 2:47:33.720 nurses and you know, just chit chatting, and I was like, man, 2:47:34.080 --> 2:47:35.959 be really good. I told the story about you know, 2:47:35.959 --> 2:47:39.160 like the you know, the nurse you tried to get 2:47:39.240 --> 2:47:41.440 by finally got a copy of the by laws to 2:47:41.800 --> 2:47:43.880 you know, some of these One of these staffers like, man, 2:47:43.879 --> 2:47:46.360 it'd be really great if we, you know, could figure 2:47:46.360 --> 2:47:49.119 out how are you know, getting hints for other union works, 2:47:49.120 --> 2:47:51.760 and just as like good luck with that, and they 2:47:51.840 --> 2:47:57.720 just disappeared ways I'm not. Yeah, I mean because because 2:47:57.800 --> 2:48:01.119 what we're finding is to add any staff that helped 2:48:01.520 --> 2:48:06.160 nurses learn how the union works find themselves out of 2:48:06.160 --> 2:48:10.200 a job. Like that's what's really that's what really sketches 2:48:10.200 --> 2:48:13.600 everyone out is when like people, I mean, you all 2:48:13.600 --> 2:48:17.800 can tell tell the story about the staffer who like 2:48:19.000 --> 2:48:24.800 got ran afoul. So I will tell you that there 2:48:24.840 --> 2:48:29.120 are a lot of great labor reps, a lot of 2:48:29.200 --> 2:48:32.960 really great people out there. But to tell you that 2:48:33.600 --> 2:48:37.800 they would communicate with us, because obviously I told you 2:48:37.840 --> 2:48:40.039 I've done all these other actions. So I know a 2:48:40.040 --> 2:48:43.400 lot of people and they have my personal number just 2:48:43.400 --> 2:48:45.840 because we would. You know, when we're in other cities, 2:48:45.879 --> 2:48:49.520 you know, you text each other and hey, we're at 2:48:49.560 --> 2:48:52.840 this place, now where do we meet you? Etc. So 2:48:53.280 --> 2:48:58.080 we were getting texts from some labor reps in the 2:48:58.200 --> 2:49:01.360 union saying, you know, you guys need to stand tall. 2:49:02.520 --> 2:49:05.840 There are a lot of us supporting you. We can't 2:49:05.840 --> 2:49:10.760 come out and publicly support you because we'll get fired. What. So, yeah, 2:49:10.800 --> 2:49:13.680 so we were getting these texts from the labor reps 2:49:13.680 --> 2:49:16.400 saying what they're doing to you is wrong, and they 2:49:16.400 --> 2:49:22.119 were you know, we actually got together and we we 2:49:22.160 --> 2:49:25.119 wanted to go out on strike in October, and we 2:49:25.120 --> 2:49:30.000 were getting this runaround from a group of this I 2:49:30.040 --> 2:49:33.160 thought they were it was just an inner cabal. Little 2:49:33.200 --> 2:49:36.040 did I know that it probably extends throughout the you know, 2:49:36.120 --> 2:49:39.880 the organization, but that they were telling us that there 2:49:39.920 --> 2:49:42.760 was no need for a strike, and it seemed they 2:49:42.800 --> 2:49:45.760 were trying to just pressure us into taking a pretty 2:49:46.920 --> 2:49:54.200 low ball contract. And so, uh, we're getting push you know, 2:49:54.200 --> 2:49:57.640 the good labor reps are texting us like stick it, 2:49:57.879 --> 2:50:01.440 stick to it, stick to it. And we actually got 2:50:01.440 --> 2:50:04.680 a postcard campaign and we actually drove up to the 2:50:04.720 --> 2:50:09.520 executive director's house in Sacramento, knocked on our door and 2:50:09.600 --> 2:50:14.160 delivered five hundred some postcards that we organized on our own, 2:50:14.280 --> 2:50:17.720 not with you know, it wasn't a union driven, it 2:50:17.800 --> 2:50:22.360 was just nurses union, nurses driven, and we delivered postcards 2:50:22.400 --> 2:50:26.360 saying we want to go out on strike, and the union, 2:50:26.400 --> 2:50:28.160 of course still fought us on it, but we were 2:50:28.160 --> 2:50:31.800 allowed to go out on strike. And there's a video 2:50:31.800 --> 2:50:36.039 of us confronting the executive director at our strike line 2:50:36.879 --> 2:50:40.120 asking her why we were gagged, why the mediator gagged us, 2:50:40.120 --> 2:50:43.480 and she clearly didn't know what was going on. She said, 2:50:44.200 --> 2:50:46.600 the mediator wouldn't gag you. Why would they gag you? 2:50:47.280 --> 2:50:50.240 So she didn't even know what was going on at 2:50:50.240 --> 2:50:54.560 our table. We then got we were contacted and they 2:50:54.680 --> 2:50:58.560 we were told, oh my god, they're running around like 2:50:58.680 --> 2:51:02.760 chickens with their heads at all because they're petrified that 2:51:02.840 --> 2:51:05.600 they might use their jobs, that they've been exposed to 2:51:05.720 --> 2:51:09.640 what they've been doing to you. And so one of 2:51:09.640 --> 2:51:13.600 the labor reps that used to work for us, she 2:51:13.720 --> 2:51:16.680 used to be at our hospital, and then she moved 2:51:16.680 --> 2:51:22.560 along and she was at Sutter Cilano and her nurses 2:51:22.560 --> 2:51:25.480 were asking, hey, did you see this video of this 2:51:25.520 --> 2:51:29.880 speech Eric made on this you know, at the strike line. 2:51:30.959 --> 2:51:35.119 And it was a speech where I kind of excoriated 2:51:35.160 --> 2:51:38.400 the union about why they would gag us, that that 2:51:38.600 --> 2:51:41.240 wasn't you know, we needed to be united and we 2:51:41.320 --> 2:51:45.320 didn't need a union, you know, working behind our back. 2:51:45.640 --> 2:51:50.400 They needed to stand with us. And so she says, well, 2:51:50.480 --> 2:51:53.120 let's see. So she was looking at the video on 2:51:53.200 --> 2:51:59.440 her union cell phone and with the negotiators, nurse negotiators 2:51:59.560 --> 2:52:02.560 at her hospitals at our Salana who were also in 2:52:02.600 --> 2:52:05.640 negotiations with us, that we weren't supposed to talk to 2:52:06.320 --> 2:52:10.600 because you know, the mediator forbade us. So she's showing 2:52:10.640 --> 2:52:16.400 the video and they thought because she was formerly in 2:52:16.480 --> 2:52:19.840 our hospital, that she was our inside scoop for all 2:52:19.920 --> 2:52:23.600 this information. What I can swear to God and take 2:52:23.640 --> 2:52:27.400 a lie detector test. I had one exchange with her 2:52:28.080 --> 2:52:32.439 during like the twenty one months that we were negotiating, 2:52:32.920 --> 2:52:36.600 and it was at a joint Bargaining Council meeting on 2:52:36.720 --> 2:52:41.360 zoom where they kept the union kept muting us on 2:52:41.560 --> 2:52:44.800 zoom and prevent and preventing us from writing in the 2:52:44.920 --> 2:52:46.600 chat because we were saying we want to go out 2:52:46.640 --> 2:52:48.720 on strike, we want to go out on strike, and 2:52:48.840 --> 2:52:50.600 next thing you know, we would find out we couldn't 2:52:50.640 --> 2:52:54.280 type in the in the chat. So I texted her 2:52:54.320 --> 2:52:58.119 and says, can you see this. I'm trying to write 2:52:58.120 --> 2:53:00.560 in the chat and I'm forbidden from writing in the chat. 2:53:00.600 --> 2:53:04.320 They muted me, they I can't type in and she goes, 2:53:04.360 --> 2:53:06.800 I'm feel for you, buddy, I feel for you. That 2:53:06.879 --> 2:53:10.360 was my only exchange with her that caused her and 2:53:10.520 --> 2:53:14.160 the fact that her nurses asked her to look at 2:53:14.160 --> 2:53:17.200 this video with them, that's what cost her her job. 2:53:18.080 --> 2:53:22.400 She's it was. It was clearly guilt by association and 2:53:22.560 --> 2:53:26.920 the charges were outrageous for her. We had labor reps 2:53:27.040 --> 2:53:32.200 leave because they just felt that it was they couldn't 2:53:32.240 --> 2:53:36.920 live with themselves with what they were doing to the nurses. 2:53:37.840 --> 2:53:40.960 It was incredible for them that they're here to work 2:53:41.080 --> 2:53:43.640 for the nurses, They're here to work for the most 2:53:43.680 --> 2:53:48.800 progressive union in the country, and it was a fraud. 2:53:49.520 --> 2:53:52.440 That's been like a big, like consistent problem is that 2:53:52.480 --> 2:53:54.720 we know that they are busting their own Like the 2:53:54.760 --> 2:53:58.640 staff are supposed to have a union. The staff have 2:53:58.720 --> 2:54:02.680 their own contract, and that's a normal thing inside unions, right, yeah, 2:54:02.720 --> 2:54:05.720 you know, to keep you know, we believe in or 2:54:05.959 --> 2:54:08.960 that every worker who you know, works for wages should 2:54:09.000 --> 2:54:12.320 be in a union. And we have seen time and 2:54:12.360 --> 2:54:17.000 again that like the like the contracts, that they've busted 2:54:17.000 --> 2:54:20.680 their own unions. So like that they've there was a 2:54:20.720 --> 2:54:25.640 slate that was run of nurses in um Our, not 2:54:25.840 --> 2:54:29.320 nurses of the staffers. I think it was in twenty 2:54:29.360 --> 2:54:32.320 twenty one where they were like trying to get something 2:54:32.360 --> 2:54:36.640 together to change you know, things inside you know, how 2:54:36.680 --> 2:54:41.680 they relate to their management and and several of those 2:54:41.800 --> 2:54:47.440 uh staffers were basically illegally fired Jesus. So this is 2:54:47.480 --> 2:54:49.560 like I mean, and I know you keep saying Jesus 2:54:49.600 --> 2:54:53.200 a lot, but like there's a reason me, you know me, 2:54:53.800 --> 2:54:56.640 I wouldn't be running into this sort of situation if 2:54:56.640 --> 2:55:00.560 it wasn't like so like out of out of this world. 2:55:00.879 --> 2:55:03.720 The stories that we hear, and they're the same. This 2:55:03.800 --> 2:55:07.119 is what's disturbing, is it? And it's because the union 2:55:07.360 --> 2:55:09.800 is baited. Like I was just talking to a lawyer today. 2:55:10.280 --> 2:55:12.600 She was looking over the by laws of our union 2:55:12.640 --> 2:55:14.840 and she's like, this is set up like a local 2:55:15.640 --> 2:55:19.560 like it's one big local union. It's got like a 2:55:19.600 --> 2:55:22.920 tiny little committee of people who are making the decisions 2:55:22.959 --> 2:55:27.320 that effect or we believe that it's mostly the director 2:55:27.600 --> 2:55:31.000 non nurse director staff that make the decisions, but these 2:55:31.000 --> 2:55:35.119 four people kind of rubber stamp them and that they 2:55:35.560 --> 2:55:38.680 make decisions for one hundred and fifty you know, thousands 2:55:38.720 --> 2:55:44.920 some on nurses and it's so centralized. You know, this 2:55:45.040 --> 2:55:47.760 is one of the things describe as like it's almost 2:55:47.760 --> 2:55:51.800 irresponsible because you know, we live in you know, you know, 2:55:52.200 --> 2:55:55.520 crazy times, and all it takes is one wrong election 2:55:55.680 --> 2:55:59.360 or bad decision in Supreme court, and it would literally 2:55:59.360 --> 2:56:03.280 our union could be dissolved with like you know, if 2:56:03.280 --> 2:56:07.760 they just arrested you know, a handful of people and 2:56:07.360 --> 2:56:12.640 uh and froze our bank accounts. And a big part 2:56:12.680 --> 2:56:16.200 of our goal is to help disperse those resources out 2:56:16.760 --> 2:56:20.160 into foster more local leaderships so that any event that 2:56:20.320 --> 2:56:24.920 you know, something you know like that terrible happens like that, 2:56:25.120 --> 2:56:28.560 we're not caught without anything. Because the way it situated 2:56:28.600 --> 2:56:33.440 now is we have this massive concentration of all of 2:56:33.440 --> 2:56:37.240 the decision making and resources in a very small group 2:56:37.240 --> 2:56:40.800 of hands. And most of these people are are not 2:56:40.959 --> 2:56:44.199 have never been nurses, or if they've been nurses they've 2:56:44.360 --> 2:56:48.320 been you know, out of practice for so long that 2:56:48.400 --> 2:56:50.879 they wouldn't know how. I mean, maybe they could put 2:56:50.879 --> 2:56:53.080 band aids on. I don't need to, like, I don't 2:56:53.120 --> 2:56:55.120 want to disparage anybody. You know, A nurse is a nurse. 2:56:55.160 --> 2:56:57.480 I know nurses, you know, you learn it and you 2:56:57.600 --> 2:56:59.760 learn a lot of things. It's really important, great skill, 2:56:59.840 --> 2:57:03.160 but there's something to be in practice. If I you know, 2:57:03.280 --> 2:57:06.080 I can walk back into the medical issue I used 2:57:06.080 --> 2:57:09.640 to work in, you know now it's going on like 2:57:09.720 --> 2:57:12.240 five years and be the same nurse that I was 2:57:12.280 --> 2:57:14.000 when I was at the peak of my practice there. 2:57:14.360 --> 2:57:17.440 And there's a real key thing too, I think we're 2:57:17.480 --> 2:57:19.640 all committed. None of us are doing this because we 2:57:19.680 --> 2:57:24.720 want to be the face of California Nurses Association National 2:57:24.800 --> 2:57:28.800 Nurses United for the next twenty thirty years. We're doing 2:57:28.800 --> 2:57:33.280 this because we feel that there's a real value to 2:57:33.600 --> 2:57:38.400 there being a continual turnover in leadership, new ideas, people 2:57:38.440 --> 2:57:43.240 bringing in new energy. We think that nurses should have 2:57:43.360 --> 2:57:46.640 the opportunity to work release time so that they could 2:57:46.840 --> 2:57:49.720 see how the union works as staffers from the inside 2:57:49.720 --> 2:57:52.280 and then go back to the regular jobs. We're doing 2:57:52.320 --> 2:57:55.400 everything we can to like I like my job. I 2:57:55.400 --> 2:57:56.800 think my job is great. I don't want to leave 2:57:56.840 --> 2:58:01.440 my job. But doing what we can to bring our 2:58:01.480 --> 2:58:07.199 met our mentality as those bedside nurses to the sensibility 2:58:07.200 --> 2:58:10.120 of running the union. Because nursing does give you a 2:58:10.120 --> 2:58:13.959 lot of really powerful tools, as like you have to 2:58:14.000 --> 2:58:16.640 be able to listen to people. We're not listening a 2:58:16.640 --> 2:58:18.160 lot tonight, but you know, we've got to talk and 2:58:18.200 --> 2:58:22.120 get the word out. Being able to kind of see. 2:58:22.440 --> 2:58:24.280 A big thing we see is like, you know, you 2:58:24.360 --> 2:58:27.120 have a lot of people who will tell youths things 2:58:27.800 --> 2:58:30.880 and then they act in a different way. And that's 2:58:30.879 --> 2:58:34.160 a big part of nursing practices, being able to understand 2:58:34.240 --> 2:58:39.039 what people's real deal is. And you know, it's kind 2:58:39.040 --> 2:58:40.840 of that's one of the things where it's real frustrating, 2:58:40.959 --> 2:58:43.960 is like we know when people are lying to us, 2:58:44.160 --> 2:58:47.800 Like I know, we all know when, like the staff 2:58:47.840 --> 2:58:51.240 are lying to us. Nurses do have bullshit detectors, that's 2:58:51.240 --> 2:58:55.040 for sure. You know. I slept through the class in 2:58:55.160 --> 2:58:57.080 nursing school where they teach you how to grow eyes 2:58:57.120 --> 2:59:00.480 in the back of your head. The class slept through 2:59:00.520 --> 2:59:02.640 where they teach you to get a through arm. And 2:59:02.680 --> 2:59:05.320 I really regret sleeping through the class where they teach 2:59:05.400 --> 2:59:09.400 you how nurse mitosis like being able to asexually reproduce 2:59:09.440 --> 2:59:13.000 an extra nurse. But I definitely didn't sleep through the 2:59:13.000 --> 2:59:15.800 class where I can learn where I can see when 2:59:15.959 --> 2:59:18.440 someone is saying one thing and then but it's like 2:59:18.760 --> 2:59:21.039 what they're fucking lying to me? Yeah, And that's a 2:59:21.280 --> 2:59:24.520 that's like a constant theme, and that's one of the 2:59:24.520 --> 2:59:26.520 things that's driving a lot of our organizing is that 2:59:26.600 --> 2:59:28.640 a lot of people are tired of just being lied 2:59:28.680 --> 2:59:32.640 to by people who were paying their paychecks. And it's 2:59:32.680 --> 2:59:35.920 like and it's like they think that we I mean, 2:59:36.040 --> 2:59:39.880 we have staff informants, right, we know people inside staff 2:59:39.920 --> 2:59:43.120 who are allied with us. We know how they talk 2:59:43.160 --> 2:59:45.880 about us when we're not there, they talk about us 2:59:45.879 --> 2:59:49.039 like we can't figure this shit out, And it's like, motherfucker, 2:59:49.080 --> 2:59:51.440 I know how to keep a person alive who like 2:59:51.680 --> 2:59:54.840 who shouldn't be alive, Like I know how to walk 2:59:54.840 --> 2:59:58.280 a family through like you know, multiple family members with 2:59:58.360 --> 3:00:02.119 conflicting opinions through like an end of life discussion, and 3:00:02.480 --> 3:00:05.000 along with a doctor who can't really make up his mind, 3:00:05.360 --> 3:00:07.400 like you don't think it while I've got you know, 3:00:07.520 --> 3:00:12.320 like multiple pressors and like continuous dialysis. You don't think 3:00:12.320 --> 3:00:15.000 I can't figure out like when you are like telling 3:00:15.200 --> 3:00:17.480 us one thing and then another thing's happening. We know 3:00:17.520 --> 3:00:20.480 why they're canceling meetings right now. They don't want us 3:00:20.480 --> 3:00:23.840 talking to each other where we get that, and this 3:00:23.920 --> 3:00:26.279 is kind of like it's it's almost like a feminist 3:00:26.280 --> 3:00:33.160 practice of women talking to each other makes men nervous, right, 3:00:33.720 --> 3:00:38.440 And it's like nurses talking to each other makes management nervous, 3:00:38.480 --> 3:00:40.680 and it sure as hell is making our union nervous. 3:00:41.000 --> 3:00:43.440 We want our union to be encouraging nurses talking to 3:00:43.480 --> 3:00:47.039 each other and not like discouraging it. And anytime someone 3:00:47.120 --> 3:00:49.720 is discouraging people from talking to each other who have 3:00:50.600 --> 3:00:54.760 similar concerns, that is an immediate you know, like Eric 3:00:54.879 --> 3:00:56.800 was saying the red flags, it's like this is the 3:00:56.879 --> 3:00:58.560 kind of thing that like this is. It's like an 3:00:58.560 --> 3:01:02.160 almost an abusive relation. Shift. You know, I would not 3:01:02.240 --> 3:01:06.359 be running if it wasn't this intense of a problem 3:01:06.400 --> 3:01:09.280 this has been. It could happen here. Join us tomorrow 3:01:09.320 --> 3:01:12.280 for part two of the interview, where Shift Change discusses 3:01:12.320 --> 3:01:14.240 more of their vision for what the union could be. 3:01:15.160 --> 3:01:17.720 In the meantime, you can find us on Twitter or Instagram. 3:01:17.720 --> 3:01:20.280 That happened here at pod and you can find cool 3:01:20.320 --> 3:01:23.320 Zone Media the same places at cool Zone Media. We've 3:01:23.360 --> 3:01:25.760 also posted a link in the description to Shift Changes 3:01:25.760 --> 3:01:27.720 go fund Me if you want to help support their campaign. 3:01:43.280 --> 3:01:45.920 Welcome back to it could Happen here. We now continue 3:01:45.920 --> 3:01:50.279 our conversation with the team from shift Change enjoy Outside 3:01:50.280 --> 3:01:54.039 of the obvious the union is doing landlordism for some reason, 3:01:54.160 --> 3:01:57.160 part which is just sort of I can't get over, like, well, 3:01:57.160 --> 3:02:00.440 what do you what do your media forty four dollars. 3:02:00.440 --> 3:02:02.800 The thing you're doing is being a landlord. But yeah, 3:02:02.840 --> 3:02:04.760 I mean it seems like they're you know, like out 3:02:04.760 --> 3:02:06.680 of one side of their mouth saying this is a 3:02:06.680 --> 3:02:08.520 democratic union. In their side of their mouth, they're doing 3:02:08.560 --> 3:02:13.200 political purges. They're like doing everything possible to make sure 3:02:13.200 --> 3:02:16.280 people don't know how to like democratic process works, which 3:02:16.680 --> 3:02:20.760 I think is a pretty like basic precept of democracy 3:02:21.400 --> 3:02:24.480 is that if if, if it's impossible to figure out 3:02:24.520 --> 3:02:26.440 how the system actually works, it's not it's not it's 3:02:26.440 --> 3:02:31.400 not actually a democracy in any real sense. Yeah, and 3:02:32.200 --> 3:02:33.640 you know, yeah, and this is the thing you're saying 3:02:33.720 --> 3:02:36.160 is like they seem they seem to be acting like bosses, 3:02:36.240 --> 3:02:40.400 like they're firing people. They get nervous when people start organizing, 3:02:40.440 --> 3:02:43.560 which is not a thing that you would think a 3:02:43.680 --> 3:02:46.879 union would be ecstatic, and it's like, oh, heir, there's 3:02:46.879 --> 3:02:49.680 this one wors like organized themselves. I don't know, it's 3:02:49.760 --> 3:02:53.200 just I mean, there's a there's a there's a mentality 3:02:53.280 --> 3:02:56.120 inside among some people and even among some of the 3:02:56.200 --> 3:03:00.080 nurses that like, you know, when people are causing problem 3:03:00.240 --> 3:03:06.640 or you know, it's the Yeah, it's it's a very 3:03:06.680 --> 3:03:09.840 it's a very perplexing situation to be in, and many 3:03:09.879 --> 3:03:12.160 of us it's taken us years to really figure it out, 3:03:12.200 --> 3:03:15.120 because you don't we all come to work right to 3:03:15.160 --> 3:03:17.560 do our job, you know. I don't come to work 3:03:17.600 --> 3:03:20.440 to like figure out every like little nuanced thing about 3:03:20.480 --> 3:03:23.120 what's going on inside my union. I didn't become a 3:03:23.320 --> 3:03:26.760 union nurse because I wanted to be like a hero 3:03:27.240 --> 3:03:30.640 union member. I did it because it was down the 3:03:30.640 --> 3:03:32.120 street and it was a good job, and like I 3:03:32.320 --> 3:03:34.680 wanted to be a nurse more than anything in the world. 3:03:36.520 --> 3:03:38.920 So you know this, But this is what we do, 3:03:39.000 --> 3:03:41.959 and this is why things like labor notes and learning 3:03:42.000 --> 3:03:45.400 how your union works is really important. We've been self 3:03:45.520 --> 3:03:47.959 educating ourselves. Like it's almost like you have to become 3:03:47.959 --> 3:03:52.360 a jail house lawyer, right, yeah, like a yeah, We've 3:03:52.400 --> 3:03:55.040 been sharing our favorite resources for like how do you 3:03:55.120 --> 3:03:58.080 learn about how union works or what your rights are, 3:03:58.680 --> 3:04:01.440 and like we're basically taking notes for what we're going 3:04:01.520 --> 3:04:03.400 to have to do when we if we get in 3:04:03.440 --> 3:04:07.200 power inside the union to educate all the nurses in 3:04:06.959 --> 3:04:09.320 our union. One of the things a little too, I 3:04:09.360 --> 3:04:12.000 mean every time I talk with people about this, to 3:04:12.080 --> 3:04:14.520 try and give little tips and tricks. Don't leave your 3:04:14.760 --> 3:04:18.320 staff are a loan in at the negotiating table. They'll 3:04:18.320 --> 3:04:21.000 tell you everything's going great, go get go, get some dinner, 3:04:21.360 --> 3:04:23.720 and you come back. And you can't do regressive bargaining. 3:04:23.720 --> 3:04:27.160 You can't unbargain like a thing when someone's been empowered 3:04:27.160 --> 3:04:32.320 to decide something for you. And this is where especially 3:04:32.400 --> 3:04:37.320 new like new units in hot in countries or parts 3:04:37.320 --> 3:04:40.600 of the country without strong union culture are finding that 3:04:40.640 --> 3:04:43.560 they'll step away from the bargaining table and they'll come back, 3:04:43.600 --> 3:04:45.600 and then all these decisions will be made that they 3:04:45.600 --> 3:04:48.400 don't have any You can't go back on it. It's 3:04:48.520 --> 3:04:52.440 like literally no backsies in like in union negotiations. No. 3:04:54.360 --> 3:04:57.920 And so there's no such thing as regressive bargaining. If 3:04:57.920 --> 3:05:02.360 if if I say that I want a you you 3:05:02.440 --> 3:05:06.440 offer a fifty percent increase in fifty cent an hour 3:05:06.640 --> 3:05:12.160 increase for floating to another union unit, I can't turn 3:05:12.200 --> 3:05:15.959 around and you can't offer me forty five cents the 3:05:16.120 --> 3:05:19.960 next go round. You cannot go back if you said 3:05:20.000 --> 3:05:22.400 fifty percent, it has to be you know, more than 3:05:22.440 --> 3:05:25.280 fifty percent on the next offer, or you just say 3:05:25.320 --> 3:05:29.040 that's my final offer, so you know the idea of 3:05:29.040 --> 3:05:33.520 regressive bargaining is I have to tell you it's amazing, 3:05:33.680 --> 3:05:38.879 is that when we negotiate against Sutter in twenty eleven 3:05:38.959 --> 3:05:44.080 through twenty thirteen, we had multiple cases of ulps filed 3:05:44.080 --> 3:05:51.039 for regressive bargaining on their part. They constantly made these 3:05:51.080 --> 3:05:54.920 mistakes which we as nurses and the labor reps caught. 3:05:56.280 --> 3:06:00.800 And now for us, it's so important that we don't 3:06:01.560 --> 3:06:07.160 regressive bargain regressive bargaining on our own members here. We 3:06:07.240 --> 3:06:10.840 need to be moving forward. We should be making quantum 3:06:10.959 --> 3:06:14.640 leaps and bounds as nurses. Well, what we've gone through, 3:06:15.640 --> 3:06:20.520 we're supposedly the most trusted profession in the country. I 3:06:20.560 --> 3:06:23.840 think it's the past twenty years. The only time we 3:06:23.920 --> 3:06:28.080 have not been the most progressive or the most respected 3:06:29.080 --> 3:06:32.039 profession was in two thousand and one, and you can 3:06:32.040 --> 3:06:36.560 obviously guess that it was firemen. It was firemen. But 3:06:36.640 --> 3:06:38.800 it's like twenty five years or so in a row 3:06:38.840 --> 3:06:43.600 we've been the most trusted profession. It's because, you know, 3:06:44.040 --> 3:06:47.320 how can you not trust somebody who's cleaning you up 3:06:47.440 --> 3:06:51.000 when you soiled yourself in the bed, who's holding your 3:06:51.000 --> 3:06:56.280 hand when you're scared. That's why we're the most trusted 3:06:56.280 --> 3:06:59.879 profession and we should be the most respected for what 3:07:00.040 --> 3:07:05.240 we do. It's just amazing that our union can't carry 3:07:05.320 --> 3:07:09.400 us through that. Our union was formed in a revolution 3:07:11.120 --> 3:07:17.520 that we overthrew and kicked out management nurses and formed 3:07:17.879 --> 3:07:23.279 the California Nurses Association, the bargaining part of the organization. 3:07:23.320 --> 3:07:28.080 The association broke away from the management part and we 3:07:28.760 --> 3:07:31.920 toraled her. It all as a wonderful example somebody who 3:07:32.040 --> 3:07:36.360 was part of that revolution. And for about twenty over 3:07:36.440 --> 3:07:42.520 twenty some years, we were a rapidly progressive union. We 3:07:42.520 --> 3:07:44.800 didn't have all the rank and file things that we 3:07:44.840 --> 3:07:49.000 should have had in the union, but it was in 3:07:49.040 --> 3:07:52.920 the right direction for nurses. And we've kind of made 3:07:52.959 --> 3:07:59.720 in the past ten years this U turn and the Association, 3:08:00.000 --> 3:08:03.520 which I think is bad for nurses. We need to 3:08:03.520 --> 3:08:07.680 be going forward and we have new nurses and new 3:08:09.120 --> 3:08:13.199 a new generation that is joining the union and they 3:08:13.240 --> 3:08:17.160 need to be a part of it. And they can't 3:08:17.160 --> 3:08:19.960 look at me and say that that old fogy that's 3:08:20.240 --> 3:08:23.959 been in the union for thirty some years. You know 3:08:24.040 --> 3:08:26.280 that I'll be doing the work for them. They need 3:08:26.320 --> 3:08:28.360 to be active in that union and they need to 3:08:28.480 --> 3:08:31.879 love the idea of solidarity, you know, out of the 3:08:31.920 --> 3:08:35.879 fires of desperation, burn hope and solidarity. It was one 3:08:35.920 --> 3:08:40.879 of the ladies said, I think Sharon Borrow from Australia, 3:08:40.959 --> 3:08:45.160 an Australian labor activists, said that we need to have 3:08:45.280 --> 3:08:48.640 every union member. I don't think every one of them 3:08:48.640 --> 3:08:50.840 has to be rabbit about it, but they should be 3:08:50.879 --> 3:08:55.240 aware that they need to stand tall and support each other, 3:08:55.520 --> 3:08:59.199 and not just even they need to support the non 3:08:59.320 --> 3:09:01.640 union nurses they need to get. We need to get 3:09:01.680 --> 3:09:08.360 more nurses unionized. The problem with unions is there's not 3:09:08.560 --> 3:09:12.199 enough unions out there. There's not enough people in the unions. 3:09:12.680 --> 3:09:16.560 We need to get more nurses unionized and our union 3:09:16.600 --> 3:09:18.640 hasn't been able to do that in quite a while. 3:09:19.400 --> 3:09:22.720 We haven't. We we've been raiding a lot of other unions, 3:09:22.760 --> 3:09:27.440 but we need to get out there, uh and get 3:09:27.440 --> 3:09:31.160 people in the South unionized. We need to get other 3:09:31.680 --> 3:09:35.080 nurses and you know in the Midwest organized that aren't 3:09:35.200 --> 3:09:39.960 unionized yet. We have a bigger vision as bedside nurses, 3:09:39.959 --> 3:09:45.199 and I think that our our national union has I'm 3:09:45.200 --> 3:09:47.280 only as strong as the person next to me. I 3:09:47.680 --> 3:09:51.879 need support. As John said, yeah, we're four people running 3:09:52.160 --> 3:09:58.039 for the Council of Presidents, but behind us, there's there's 3:09:58.080 --> 3:10:02.920 so many nurses supporting us. Nurses are texting me all 3:10:02.959 --> 3:10:06.920 the time, Hey, give me some pliers, give me some buttons. 3:10:06.959 --> 3:10:10.880 I want to pass them out. It's it's important for us. 3:10:10.920 --> 3:10:14.600 I know we're we're at a disadvantage we don't have. 3:10:15.320 --> 3:10:18.800 You know, the people were running against even though it's 3:10:18.840 --> 3:10:24.039 illegal for them to have the union promote them, they're 3:10:24.080 --> 3:10:27.040 obviously going to have that advantage like a city president 3:10:27.440 --> 3:10:30.240 because they're going to be in the National Nurse magazine, 3:10:30.400 --> 3:10:33.760 going around the country, you know, doing the things they 3:10:33.800 --> 3:10:36.840 do as sitting presidents, so they're going to get that 3:10:36.959 --> 3:10:41.400 free publicity. I wish the union presidents went around the 3:10:41.400 --> 3:10:44.280 country because as far as I know, they've never come 3:10:44.320 --> 3:10:47.760 here at Chicaca. Yeah, I think the only time we 3:10:47.879 --> 3:10:51.720 bet to Chicago's when we had that People Power convention 3:10:51.800 --> 3:10:55.480 there and that was my first visit back to Chicago, 3:10:55.600 --> 3:10:58.600 and I think ten years was when I went there. 3:11:00.320 --> 3:11:05.240 And it's amazing. Is it should be our union should rotate, 3:11:06.280 --> 3:11:10.560 rotate where they have their their their conventions. They should 3:11:10.600 --> 3:11:12.480 we should be all around the country. We should be 3:11:12.520 --> 3:11:15.600 going to the south and having conventions so that we 3:11:15.640 --> 3:11:21.320 can attract people. Um. I think it's important we need 3:11:21.360 --> 3:11:24.760 to make inroads. UM. You know, I know a lot 3:11:24.800 --> 3:11:26.600 of it is They're going to say the pandemic, and 3:11:26.680 --> 3:11:34.200 I think the pandemic did hasten this siloing. Um. And 3:11:34.360 --> 3:11:37.240 you know, some of it was a little understandable. But 3:11:37.400 --> 3:11:39.640 even when it was evident that they should have come 3:11:39.680 --> 3:11:45.400 out of the borough, they never did. And they people 3:11:45.400 --> 3:11:50.120 have been saying how tired they are from the pandemic, right, Like, 3:11:50.400 --> 3:11:52.680 I don't know how they could have been tired. The 3:11:52.800 --> 3:11:55.879 union could have been tired when they were just having 3:11:55.959 --> 3:11:59.920 zoom calls. No, no, I mean the nurses are saying 3:12:00.000 --> 3:12:03.720 that they're tired. Like. But here's what's interesting. This is 3:12:03.720 --> 3:12:05.800 a thing that I'm seeing in real time as we're 3:12:05.840 --> 3:12:09.400 doing this work, is that nurses who have been exhausted 3:12:09.800 --> 3:12:12.680 and some of the most beat down like like nurses 3:12:12.720 --> 3:12:17.320 who are like in the worst situations here in Chicago, 3:12:18.200 --> 3:12:23.280 are tired. But then they hear something interesting is going 3:12:23.280 --> 3:12:25.720 on with the union that is actually something that they 3:12:25.760 --> 3:12:29.199 have a say in, which is very unusual in our union, 3:12:29.680 --> 3:12:33.240 and people get very excited. So I'm having coworkers coming 3:12:33.280 --> 3:12:37.199 up to me who are the least interested in union 3:12:37.360 --> 3:12:42.879 business until maybe it's time for a strike. And you know, 3:12:42.959 --> 3:12:46.359 it's interesting because like when we did our strike organizing 3:12:46.360 --> 3:12:50.280 in twenty nineteen, the first strike in Chicago's of nurses 3:12:50.560 --> 3:12:55.160 in like forty years in Chicago. You know, they kept 3:12:55.720 --> 3:12:58.800 it would call these small kind of symbolic actions, and 3:12:58.879 --> 3:13:02.520 they call them stress tests or structure tests for like, 3:13:02.560 --> 3:13:05.320 you know, we're going to do we're going to do 3:13:05.360 --> 3:13:07.080 a press conference and you have like you know, a 3:13:07.080 --> 3:13:09.200 handful of nurses come out for the press conference, yet 3:13:09.240 --> 3:13:12.360 like ten or fifteen nurses to come out, and they're like, oh, 3:13:12.400 --> 3:13:15.480 they're all wringing their hands. And then we start started 3:13:15.480 --> 3:13:20.000 calling pickets and then we start blowing past our turnout numbers. 3:13:20.040 --> 3:13:23.360 And then when we did our strike, they were expecting 3:13:23.400 --> 3:13:28.080 eight hundred nurses with twelve fourteen hundred nurses, more nurses 3:13:28.080 --> 3:13:30.600 than ever been in anyone place in our hospital. Like 3:13:30.640 --> 3:13:33.080 it was like a giant party. So it's kind of 3:13:33.080 --> 3:13:36.040 like when people have know that there's something that really 3:13:36.360 --> 3:13:39.960 has like they has a stake in, right, there's an 3:13:40.000 --> 3:13:45.480 infinite amount of energy almost and this election is really 3:13:45.560 --> 3:13:48.879 kind of like we can't make the buttons fast enough 3:13:49.760 --> 3:13:52.960 to give away like they keep people keep coming up 3:13:52.959 --> 3:13:54.800 and they're like, here, give me a handful. I've got 3:13:54.920 --> 3:13:58.880 coworkers and we're doing there's you know, let's get the 3:13:58.920 --> 3:14:01.280 pictures of everyone with their nurse with their with their 3:14:01.320 --> 3:14:05.960 shift change buttons shift change, and you know, we're turning 3:14:06.000 --> 3:14:09.280 that stuff into we're getting ramped up and prepared for 3:14:09.520 --> 3:14:13.520 like our social media like outreach, and this is part 3:14:13.560 --> 3:14:15.440 of it, is like getting people to see like, hey, 3:14:15.480 --> 3:14:19.640 there are people out there who want to do something 3:14:19.680 --> 3:14:22.480 different and that put you like as a as a 3:14:22.520 --> 3:14:25.440 bedside nurse. This is our opportunity to get you into 3:14:25.440 --> 3:14:27.960 the driver's seat of how your union is run, how 3:14:28.000 --> 3:14:31.120 strikes are called, how we negotiate, Like we want to 3:14:31.120 --> 3:14:35.520 have a council of hospitals in contract campaigns. It's just 3:14:35.920 --> 3:14:40.400 nurses from negotiating teams so that they can all so 3:14:40.440 --> 3:14:42.440 we can coordinate and decide when we want to go 3:14:42.440 --> 3:14:44.760 on strike. And it's not someone who's never been a 3:14:44.840 --> 3:14:50.480 nurse making that call for us, Yeah, which seems just 3:14:50.600 --> 3:14:53.600 baffling that you'd have some random person who hasn't been 3:14:53.640 --> 3:14:56.120 a nurse making strike decisions to this I mean the 3:14:56.160 --> 3:14:58.640 fact that it's not also just there seems like there's 3:14:58.640 --> 3:15:01.720 such an enormous gap between the things you would just 3:15:01.959 --> 3:15:05.320 basically fundamentally expect a union to be doing and what's 3:15:05.360 --> 3:15:08.040 actually happening, which has nothing to do with that, And 3:15:08.040 --> 3:15:09.560 it's just the sort of I mean it almost it 3:15:09.640 --> 3:15:13.640 seems like like intentional dubobilization. Well, they want to treat 3:15:13.680 --> 3:15:16.240 us like a spigot, like they want like you can 3:15:16.320 --> 3:15:18.760 turn us on and turn us off. You know. The 3:15:18.840 --> 3:15:21.160 problem is is that people don't respond to that well, 3:15:21.320 --> 3:15:24.520 and you kind of constantly have to be honing your 3:15:24.560 --> 3:15:28.400 practice through defending the contract, which is a big thing 3:15:28.440 --> 3:15:31.680 that like a lot of my coworkers are just constantly 3:15:31.680 --> 3:15:35.400 annoyed that the contract we're not defending. Our chief nurse 3:15:35.440 --> 3:15:38.199 rep is always annoyed that she can only know scrape 3:15:38.240 --> 3:15:42.160 together you know, like four or five people, and you know, 3:15:42.280 --> 3:15:45.440 I do it, and I'm not like I'm really good 3:15:45.440 --> 3:15:47.400 when I'm in the room with you know, I've my 3:15:47.480 --> 3:15:49.560 coworkers think that I do a good job, but you know, 3:15:49.600 --> 3:15:52.400 when it comes down to like doing all of the 3:15:52.440 --> 3:15:54.600 reading and everything to make sure it's done, I need 3:15:54.760 --> 3:15:56.640 you know, It's the thing that I'm always working on 3:15:56.680 --> 3:15:59.840 and trying to get better at m But you know, 3:16:00.160 --> 3:16:03.040 the that is kind of the lifeblood of trade unionism 3:16:03.160 --> 3:16:04.960 is like, if you're going to have a contract, you 3:16:04.959 --> 3:16:08.600 need to in between contract barting campaigns where you can 3:16:08.640 --> 3:16:11.680 go on strike, you need to be constantly probing and 3:16:11.720 --> 3:16:15.240 pushing and finding where the weak spots are and keeping 3:16:15.280 --> 3:16:19.080 people in the practice of like fighting. And if you 3:16:19.160 --> 3:16:21.440 do that and you're really effective at it, you can 3:16:21.600 --> 3:16:29.320 affect some pretty impressive changes in between contracts. When our 3:16:29.360 --> 3:16:34.879 friends was was the labor rep at Cook County, they 3:16:34.920 --> 3:16:38.800 went from having maybe like ten people doing like the 3:16:38.800 --> 3:16:41.640 rep work to over sixty people doing the rep work. 3:16:41.760 --> 3:16:46.600 She partnered with a really phenomenal chief nurse rep who 3:16:46.840 --> 3:16:50.200 had a family Her dad had been president of a 3:16:50.240 --> 3:16:57.080 SEIU local, and they were they had pushed so hard 3:16:57.120 --> 3:17:01.920 that they were able to read to open negotiations for 3:17:02.080 --> 3:17:06.760 attention bonuses, which after you've settled a contract is like 3:17:07.240 --> 3:17:11.760 to open something on economics, like on the order of fifteen, 3:17:12.480 --> 3:17:16.840 fifteen or ten thousand dollars, retention bonuses is a huge deal. Yeah, 3:17:17.440 --> 3:17:19.720 the problem was is that that then they fired her 3:17:19.920 --> 3:17:23.480 when she connected us at Cooke County, or the nurses 3:17:23.480 --> 3:17:26.840 at Coo County with nurses at University of Chicago, and 3:17:27.520 --> 3:17:29.879 we started comparing notes with what our staff were like, 3:17:29.959 --> 3:17:35.480 and their chief nurse reps started asking the director of bargaining, 3:17:35.520 --> 3:17:37.800 who's not a nurse and has never been a nurse, 3:17:38.240 --> 3:17:40.600 to say, why is it that we are bringing in 3:17:40.959 --> 3:17:43.800 why is my facility bringing in four million dollars worth 3:17:43.840 --> 3:17:47.640 of dues? And we get like, you know, two hundred 3:17:47.840 --> 3:17:51.440 twenty thousand dollars worth maybe of staff, Like what's the deal? 3:17:51.480 --> 3:17:53.119 And why is it that we don't spend any money 3:17:53.120 --> 3:17:56.800 on arbitration or any of the stuff. They're constantly afraid 3:17:56.879 --> 3:18:01.720 of doing anything. And that's when they fired Natalie. And 3:18:01.720 --> 3:18:03.920 then and now they're down to they're trying to whittle 3:18:04.000 --> 3:18:08.000 those those nurses retention bonus negotiations down to like three 3:18:08.000 --> 3:18:11.480 thousand and four thousand bucks from like fifteen thousands. You know, 3:18:11.600 --> 3:18:13.520 you bring in the right people, and all of a sudden, 3:18:14.080 --> 3:18:19.080 management has to like hire in like um an entire 3:18:19.160 --> 3:18:24.199 legal extra legal department at cook Anty Health Services. It's 3:18:24.280 --> 3:18:28.000 not it's not that somebody is not a nurse. That 3:18:28.040 --> 3:18:31.039 doesn't matter. Natalie was not a nurse, yet she was 3:18:31.280 --> 3:18:37.160 an outstanding example what a labor rep should be. An organizer. Yeah, 3:18:37.200 --> 3:18:42.720 I mean she you stand with the workers. I just 3:18:42.879 --> 3:18:47.519 I do believe that we need more nurses involved in 3:18:46.360 --> 3:18:51.600 UH in organizing and inside the union. But I have 3:18:51.720 --> 3:18:54.879 no issues with you know, when you have labor reps 3:18:54.879 --> 3:18:58.240 like Natalie, that's that's what you need to keep the 3:18:58.360 --> 3:19:04.440 union thriving. And unfortunately to cut her down when she 3:19:04.600 --> 3:19:09.480 was making inroads to really empower nurses and the union 3:19:10.200 --> 3:19:13.600 was it's just beyond the pale to make that decision. 3:19:14.280 --> 3:19:17.840 Why they made that decision is something that I think 3:19:17.879 --> 3:19:20.160 if we won the presidency, we'd want to find out 3:19:20.800 --> 3:19:25.360 why was that decision made because the big part of 3:19:25.360 --> 3:19:29.040 this is holding the staff accountable is our big thing, 3:19:29.360 --> 3:19:32.879 Like we just need to know right now, there's no 3:19:32.920 --> 3:19:36.280 accountability to So imagine having a job where like if 3:19:36.280 --> 3:19:38.760 you are a nurse, Like if we're speaking to our 3:19:38.800 --> 3:19:42.000 coworkers right now, imagine being a nurse and no one 3:19:42.000 --> 3:19:44.760 ever checking your charting, no one ever checking what a 3:19:44.800 --> 3:19:48.080 patient has to say about the care they got. No 3:19:48.120 --> 3:19:52.400 one asking a doctor like what you did during a shift, right, 3:19:53.200 --> 3:19:55.560 No one checking your like to see if like all 3:19:55.600 --> 3:19:58.039 of your vital signs are actually really reflected in like 3:19:58.080 --> 3:20:01.080 the monitor. That's the situation. Or we're dealing with staff 3:20:01.160 --> 3:20:06.560 right now, no one who's outside of their staff bosses 3:20:06.640 --> 3:20:10.400 at the director level has they're they're only accountable to 3:20:10.440 --> 3:20:13.400 those people, and they are only accountable and they're not 3:20:13.440 --> 3:20:18.560 actually accountable. They just write like they write everything themselves. 3:20:18.560 --> 3:20:21.440 They write their own reports. They get they you know, 3:20:21.560 --> 3:20:23.400 they'll take you know, a nurse will come up with 3:20:23.400 --> 3:20:25.720 a good idea, they'll run it up the flag pool. 3:20:25.800 --> 3:20:32.800 Check out this awesome idea, have, boss. I mean, it 3:20:32.840 --> 3:20:35.400 sounds like a downer I guess is like it all 3:20:35.440 --> 3:20:38.519 sounds very like this is all grim and like depressing. 3:20:38.560 --> 3:20:40.680 But the fact is is that we are at a 3:20:40.720 --> 3:20:42.560 point now where we see what's going on and what 3:20:42.600 --> 3:20:45.280 we need to do. We've been educating ourselves about what 3:20:45.560 --> 3:20:47.959 can be done to change the union because the union 3:20:48.040 --> 3:20:51.160 is a democratic structure, even in like just the shell 3:20:51.320 --> 3:20:54.480 form of it, and as nurses, we've got a lot 3:20:54.520 --> 3:20:56.720 of faith that as nurses we can figure this out 3:20:56.760 --> 3:21:00.879 and come up with a much better, more democratic way 3:21:00.879 --> 3:21:03.520 to run our union. And I think it will fundamentally 3:21:03.560 --> 3:21:06.760 be a much stronger organization. I think That's the fear 3:21:06.879 --> 3:21:09.080 is that somehow we like, you know, some people are like, oh, 3:21:09.160 --> 3:21:12.000 you know, you're gonna make it worse. It's like I 3:21:12.040 --> 3:21:13.840 don't know that you could make it worse. It's like, 3:21:15.120 --> 3:21:18.720 you know, there's the healthcare industry is changing. I think 3:21:18.720 --> 3:21:20.960 we're seeing this in real time as the healthcare industry 3:21:21.040 --> 3:21:25.600 is changing, and we are seeing to the you know, 3:21:26.040 --> 3:21:29.040 you have hospitals that come up with the most cutting 3:21:29.120 --> 3:21:33.920 edged version of healthcare, like the Universe Chicago, or the 3:21:34.040 --> 3:21:37.680 university systems out in California, or maybe like Stanford that's 3:21:37.720 --> 3:21:40.440 like the very like the top end of like what 3:21:41.040 --> 3:21:44.280 healthcare is, and those hospitals are like basically they might 3:21:44.320 --> 3:21:47.200 as well be gold mines. And then you've got the 3:21:47.200 --> 3:21:50.480 safety net hospitals. And my fear is that the safety 3:21:50.520 --> 3:21:55.680 net hospitals they would like to casualize to uber They 3:21:55.800 --> 3:21:59.000 keep telling us about, oh, they're going to uberize nursing. Well, 3:21:59.040 --> 3:22:01.000 you know, what is it that they're doing to stop 3:22:01.520 --> 3:22:04.280 you know, over half of the nurses being at Cook 3:22:04.320 --> 3:22:07.520 County Health Service from being replaced with agency nurses right now? 3:22:08.680 --> 3:22:10.840 Like how long is that going to go until there's 3:22:10.879 --> 3:22:13.280 like you know, they go from a bargaining unit of 3:22:13.440 --> 3:22:15.960 you know, over fifteen hundred nurses in the union or 3:22:16.000 --> 3:22:18.640 seventeen hundred nurses in the union to like, you know, 3:22:18.720 --> 3:22:22.240 it could theoretically drop down to you know, a handful 3:22:22.240 --> 3:22:26.240 of union nurses. And so they like they it's like 3:22:26.280 --> 3:22:29.879 an unofficial layoff, right, people quit and they institute a 3:22:29.920 --> 3:22:33.040 hiring freeze, and then they don't replace them. They bring 3:22:33.080 --> 3:22:35.680 them in as agency nurses because they would rather in 3:22:35.720 --> 3:22:40.040 these safety net institutions, not pay benefits, not pay pensions. 3:22:40.760 --> 3:22:43.440 You know, our hospital we lost, they took our pension away, 3:22:43.440 --> 3:22:46.200 and the union didn't do anything to fight that back. 3:22:46.280 --> 3:22:49.480 I was in the pension plan for like two years 3:22:49.520 --> 3:22:52.880 and then they're like, guess what, no more pensions and 3:22:54.040 --> 3:22:56.520 the union to do shit about it, and they could 3:22:56.560 --> 3:22:58.840 have done something. I mean, it was like it's because 3:22:58.879 --> 3:23:01.560 the contract language is like, well, you get whatever we 3:23:01.640 --> 3:23:06.400 offer you. And our teamsters in our facility took like 3:23:06.480 --> 3:23:10.800 a very like a hundred two to four hundred dollars 3:23:10.840 --> 3:23:13.560 buyout to get rid of their pensions, and that was 3:23:13.640 --> 3:23:17.440 the end of our pensions for the entire medical center. 3:23:18.840 --> 3:23:22.400 And then our union where our staffers are all bought 3:23:22.400 --> 3:23:27.680 into the Steelworkers pension, right, they have a pension. They're like, well, John, 3:23:28.280 --> 3:23:30.840 maybe you'd have to strike six or eight times, which 3:23:30.879 --> 3:23:32.760 is what they say whenever they don't want to do anything. 3:23:33.040 --> 3:23:35.879 And they certainly aren't telling us about hospitals, like the 3:23:35.920 --> 3:23:38.600 folks that all debates who have struck like ten times 3:23:38.959 --> 3:23:41.680 to get what it takes. And it's just like, you know, striking. 3:23:41.840 --> 3:23:44.440 I think there's this idea that it's scary. I have 3:23:44.480 --> 3:23:46.320 co workers who are telling me, John, just tell me 3:23:46.360 --> 3:23:48.160 when the next strike is. I can't wait for the 3:23:48.160 --> 3:23:50.760 next strike. But we've been through it. We have a 3:23:50.800 --> 3:23:53.560 lot of coworkers who haven't. Half of our nurses are new, 3:23:54.080 --> 3:23:56.480 they've never been through a strike. But you know, you 3:23:56.600 --> 3:23:59.160 build a union through strikes, which is the thing that 3:23:59.640 --> 3:24:01.959 is a little counterintuitive, especially if you do it the 3:24:02.040 --> 3:24:05.440 right way and you're strategic about it. Raina, You've been 3:24:05.480 --> 3:24:07.880 real quiet, like what do you think about all this? 3:24:08.560 --> 3:24:12.240 That's really number one. I'm a lady, and I don't 3:24:12.240 --> 3:24:18.640 interject unless I absolutely have to. So to go back earlier, 3:24:19.040 --> 3:24:24.879 what was said about how unique are Slate is, well, 3:24:25.600 --> 3:24:29.199 it's unique in itself. For one, of course, I kind 3:24:29.200 --> 3:24:34.120 of sit with being a female and minority. But you 3:24:34.240 --> 3:24:37.400 also got to think about the men. Now, there is 3:24:37.520 --> 3:24:41.360 not a lot of men in nursing in general, and 3:24:41.400 --> 3:24:44.440 I think that's what also they need to look at, 3:24:44.480 --> 3:24:49.320 because I heard the criticism about that. But let's flip 3:24:49.360 --> 3:24:53.680 the script on this. I mean we individually, as Eric 3:24:53.760 --> 3:24:58.920 and John did say before, that we were not here 3:24:58.959 --> 3:25:00.840 to be a counsel of present. This lay on every 3:25:00.840 --> 3:25:03.840 who was actually jumping on it to help other people. 3:25:03.959 --> 3:25:07.119 But form you know, I myself and Eric, we've been 3:25:07.120 --> 3:25:11.400 knowing each other for what seven six seven years, yeah, 3:25:11.520 --> 3:25:16.880 something like that. And yeah, and you know, I have 3:25:17.000 --> 3:25:21.240 seen the changes with the union. I feel that the 3:25:21.440 --> 3:25:25.120 union has been really stagnant. I think our dudes should 3:25:25.160 --> 3:25:30.640 be used for community. And now during the pandemic, there 3:25:30.760 --> 3:25:34.200 is a lot of nurses are totally burnt out and 3:25:34.280 --> 3:25:39.600 they're slowing to realize that nursing is not what I thought. 3:25:39.640 --> 3:25:42.480 I did not signed for for this pandemic. I never 3:25:42.720 --> 3:25:45.000 I've been a nurse for thirteen years. I never knew 3:25:45.040 --> 3:25:47.240 that was never thought it was gonna be a pandemic 3:25:47.280 --> 3:25:50.119 like this. So it changed your whole spectrum of what 3:25:50.280 --> 3:25:54.360 nursing stands and also what we should do to preserve it. Now. 3:25:54.959 --> 3:25:58.120 I you know, I look young, but I am a 3:25:58.200 --> 3:26:01.680 grandma about to be a full and so one of 3:26:01.680 --> 3:26:03.280 them are going to be a nurse one day. And 3:26:03.360 --> 3:26:06.200 actually one of them is a ten year old. And 3:26:06.240 --> 3:26:08.800 he told me, he said, you know, looking at all 3:26:08.920 --> 3:26:13.200 my nursing books and looking at you know, all my 3:26:13.360 --> 3:26:15.240 medical stuff, and he's looking at me, he said, you 3:26:15.280 --> 3:26:17.760 know what, I may want to be a nurse now. 3:26:17.920 --> 3:26:19.720 Mind you, two years ago he wanted to be a 3:26:19.840 --> 3:26:24.320 race car driver. So it happened. So it kind of 3:26:24.360 --> 3:26:27.360 inspired me a little bit, like I need to do 3:26:27.520 --> 3:26:31.560 more leadership. I mean, I think I'm a natural leader 3:26:31.560 --> 3:26:34.600 in itself. It's just how to do it, where to 3:26:34.680 --> 3:26:37.680 go And this is just a step for me. I'm 3:26:37.720 --> 3:26:42.520 at that age. You know, I need to look behind me, 3:26:42.600 --> 3:26:46.360 if all the younger nurses my family and what my 3:26:46.480 --> 3:26:49.280 young grandchildren, what they may be. And I want to 3:26:49.280 --> 3:26:53.440 preserve that. And that's a third reason why I'm standing 3:26:53.560 --> 3:26:59.160 to do this. So and my peers, I mean, you work, 3:27:00.040 --> 3:27:02.959 any nurse work eight to twelve hours. The facility that 3:27:03.040 --> 3:27:05.200 you work with is almost a second home to you. 3:27:05.840 --> 3:27:09.360 So you want to stand up with your peers. You know, 3:27:09.600 --> 3:27:13.160 there shouldn't be no divide. We're all standing for an 3:27:13.200 --> 3:27:17.560 employer who has been trying to take benefits away, trying 3:27:17.560 --> 3:27:22.200 to take you know, anything that makes it decent for 3:27:22.240 --> 3:27:25.000 you to just work, and also is wearing and tearing 3:27:25.120 --> 3:27:28.800 on your wellness and your work life balance and just 3:27:28.879 --> 3:27:33.119 your whole mental state. So it's so important to really 3:27:33.200 --> 3:27:38.320 know about your union, about the breakdown of it, about 3:27:38.320 --> 3:27:43.400 the history, about everything. You need to keep your employer 3:27:43.480 --> 3:27:47.360 accountable and also within the union. Just like nurses have 3:27:47.440 --> 3:27:49.640 to be accountable for everything we do, and if we 3:27:49.680 --> 3:27:52.040 get in trouble, of course we're going to be reprimanded. 3:27:52.200 --> 3:27:54.160 The union needs to also go through the same thing 3:27:54.200 --> 3:27:59.400 as we do. It's only fair. So that's pretty much 3:27:59.400 --> 3:28:04.240 it for me. Any other questions you're reading, are you 3:28:04.640 --> 3:28:09.720 have you finished up your copy of Solidary Unionism yet? Arena? Oh, 3:28:09.800 --> 3:28:12.640 you mean the rank and File I am on chapter 3:28:12.760 --> 3:28:15.400 three has been on. It's been interesting and since I 3:28:15.480 --> 3:28:18.199 will be going on vacation, well, I am on vacation 3:28:18.320 --> 3:28:21.280 right now. I'll be leaving tomorrow. I should be finished 3:28:21.320 --> 3:28:24.760 up with that book by then. That's a That's one 3:28:24.800 --> 3:28:27.560 thing that like, I don't want anyone to think just 3:28:27.640 --> 3:28:30.720 because I can speak about the union in a halfway 3:28:30.720 --> 3:28:33.480 intelligible way that I've been studying this for a long time. 3:28:34.000 --> 3:28:37.000 A lot of my knowledge about the union is pretty 3:28:37.080 --> 3:28:42.440 new and recent, and uh, like I got, you know, 3:28:42.520 --> 3:28:45.560 I picked up a copy of Stoughton Lens The Rank 3:28:45.640 --> 3:28:49.000 and File Labor Law for the rank and Filer. There's 3:28:49.000 --> 3:28:51.960 an audiobook of it. It's just a great, like short 3:28:52.040 --> 3:28:54.240 little book about everything you need to know to kind 3:28:54.280 --> 3:28:57.000 of like exercise your rights and try and stay out 3:28:57.040 --> 3:29:02.440 of like trouble. Picked up a copy of you know, uh, 3:29:02.760 --> 3:29:06.800 Jamie Mccayfleery's No Shortcuts. We've been passing around a copy 3:29:06.959 --> 3:29:12.520 of Stoughton Len's Solidary Unionism, and like there's a lot. 3:29:12.560 --> 3:29:15.080 And then we went to Labor Notes and like it's 3:29:15.080 --> 3:29:17.720 funny because our union sent us to Labor Notes. Like 3:29:18.000 --> 3:29:21.119 I've got pictures of me and like other shift change 3:29:21.480 --> 3:29:26.160 people that were taken by staff if we were at 3:29:26.160 --> 3:29:29.360 the Labor Notes conference. The funny thing was that I 3:29:29.400 --> 3:29:32.280 was in the talks about how to build a caucus 3:29:32.320 --> 3:29:35.160 and how to exercise their democratic rights as one of 3:29:35.200 --> 3:29:38.160 the funeral the only nurses in some of those spaces, 3:29:40.879 --> 3:29:43.439 and uh, you know, I don't know what they expected 3:29:43.480 --> 3:29:45.520 to happen, but the way they're treating this whole thing, 3:29:45.680 --> 3:29:48.000 every little thing that we've gotten, the fact that we 3:29:48.040 --> 3:29:49.520 can send that we were about to be able to 3:29:49.560 --> 3:29:51.960 send emails out was the thing that we had to 3:29:52.000 --> 3:29:55.320 fight for every step of the way. They gave us 3:29:55.360 --> 3:29:57.800 a set of rules that the rules were the most 3:29:57.840 --> 3:30:01.959 conservative interpretation of our leagual democratic rights that are set 3:30:02.040 --> 3:30:05.360 in federal law. They gave us like the nineteen fifties, 3:30:05.480 --> 3:30:11.160 like carpenters union interpretation of like those those rights. They 3:30:11.240 --> 3:30:13.640 ignored all the case law that we have to be 3:30:13.680 --> 3:30:16.720 able to communicate with our coworkers through normal union channel, 3:30:16.800 --> 3:30:20.280 like every communication method our union uses to normally communicate 3:30:20.320 --> 3:30:24.600 with us legally we should have access to. Now they're 3:30:24.640 --> 3:30:26.680 trying to throttle that's like all you can only send 3:30:26.760 --> 3:30:29.680 an email communication every fifteen days. It's like you know what, 3:30:29.840 --> 3:30:32.800 like you're doing your little whisper campaign like twenty four hours, 3:30:33.120 --> 3:30:35.760 twenty four seven just by and then you have to 3:30:35.800 --> 3:30:40.600 opt into like to communication about the about the election, 3:30:40.760 --> 3:30:44.600 like they were trying to keep and they're cutting meetings short, 3:30:44.640 --> 3:30:47.480 they're cutting meetings off. They were trying to bury this. 3:30:47.640 --> 3:30:50.040 Now we think that they're they're trying to shift gears 3:30:50.040 --> 3:30:51.840 because they know that this is a lot more serious 3:30:53.080 --> 3:30:55.920 than they thought it was. You know, we're not here 3:30:55.959 --> 3:30:59.560 to you know, turn the union upside like well, maybe 3:30:59.560 --> 3:31:01.200 turn the an upside down is a good way to 3:31:01.200 --> 3:31:03.200 think of it, but in a good productive way, not 3:31:03.320 --> 3:31:05.879 in a you know, turn it upside down and shake it, 3:31:06.000 --> 3:31:08.040 you know, to like, you know, destroy it. We want 3:31:08.040 --> 3:31:10.360 to turn it upside down so that it's the way 3:31:10.600 --> 3:31:13.080 a real union is supposed to be, is it. People 3:31:13.080 --> 3:31:15.560 who are elected into leadership are accountable to the people 3:31:16.120 --> 3:31:21.200 who elect them. And our goal is to you know, 3:31:21.360 --> 3:31:24.880 to make the union like we want to go from 3:31:25.560 --> 3:31:28.440 something like you know, Chicago Teachers Union, which is really 3:31:28.520 --> 3:31:33.040 powerful and famously like democratic. It wasn't always that way. 3:31:33.040 --> 3:31:36.200 It was only focused on very basic stuff, you know, 3:31:36.280 --> 3:31:40.200 before the women in the Chicago Teachers Union took it 3:31:40.240 --> 3:31:43.240 over and changed it for the better. M you know, 3:31:43.320 --> 3:31:45.800 that's our goals. We want our union to be to 3:31:45.879 --> 3:31:49.680 have that internal, vibrant discussion and debate about how the 3:31:49.760 --> 3:31:52.480 union should be working should work because we know that 3:31:52.520 --> 3:31:55.240 as nurses that we've got the skills in the capacity 3:31:55.320 --> 3:31:57.920 to have an impact on the others are said, we 3:31:57.959 --> 3:32:00.280 don't think that people who are paid out of our 3:32:00.320 --> 3:32:03.039 due should ever be afraid when a nurse opens their 3:32:03.080 --> 3:32:05.840 mouth and says I think things could be better or 3:32:05.879 --> 3:32:12.920 I don't like how this is happening. Yeah, And I 3:32:12.959 --> 3:32:14.320 think I think one more thing I do you kind 3:32:14.320 --> 3:32:18.520 of want to add is that you know, you were 3:32:18.520 --> 3:32:22.800 talking a bit earlier about sort of the risk of stagnation, 3:32:23.280 --> 3:32:26.240 and I mean, I think something that people don't want 3:32:26.280 --> 3:32:29.080 to hear, is it, like, you know, there's been a 3:32:29.120 --> 3:32:31.280 wave of militancy in the last few years, but the 3:32:31.320 --> 3:32:34.720 actual union like the actual unionization rate of the US 3:32:34.920 --> 3:32:38.920 keeps going down. And I think a big part of 3:32:38.959 --> 3:32:41.680 that is, you know, like even even in the periods 3:32:41.680 --> 3:32:44.800 when unions are really strong, they got into these sort 3:32:44.800 --> 3:32:47.039 of bureaucratic patterns where people were busy sort of fighting 3:32:47.080 --> 3:32:50.160 their own internal like like busy fighting their own rank 3:32:50.160 --> 3:32:51.720 and file, and then when the bosses came for them, 3:32:51.760 --> 3:32:55.520 they got destroyed. And I don't know, like it really 3:32:55.600 --> 3:32:59.320 seems like a moment where either unions are going to 3:33:00.320 --> 3:33:02.320 people like you are going to win and you get 3:33:02.320 --> 3:33:05.480 these rank and file movements that are changing what the 3:33:05.560 --> 3:33:07.520 union is to be what it's supposed to be or 3:33:07.959 --> 3:33:11.119 the last remnants of unionism is going to die. And 3:33:11.200 --> 3:33:14.039 that's I don't know, Like I mean, it's depressing, but 3:33:15.080 --> 3:33:17.280 that's like if you if you just look at the 3:33:17.320 --> 3:33:19.760 unionization rich chart, it just keeps going down and down 3:33:19.840 --> 3:33:21.560 and down, and every time it seems like it's hit 3:33:21.640 --> 3:33:23.600 to do low, it's like it finds another way to 3:33:23.640 --> 3:33:27.040 go out, which I guess is kind of a room 3:33:27.080 --> 3:33:30.320 way to look at it. But I don't know. I mean, 3:33:30.400 --> 3:33:35.680 it is very positive to think about how how there's 3:33:35.800 --> 3:33:38.320 organizing that's difficult. It's hard to get people to do 3:33:38.440 --> 3:33:44.080 some things right. It's difficult to pull people together for 3:33:44.720 --> 3:33:49.040 you know, um certain types of organizing when they don't 3:33:49.040 --> 3:33:50.640 feel like they have a say or a stake in 3:33:50.720 --> 3:33:53.480 what's going on. But I will say that like it 3:33:53.520 --> 3:33:56.600 has been, it is always eye opening when I watch 3:33:57.240 --> 3:34:01.320 my co workers pull together in this thing, and I 3:34:01.360 --> 3:34:05.000 think that there's that common experience at work and especially 3:34:05.000 --> 3:34:09.080 care workers right now, it is like that is driving 3:34:09.320 --> 3:34:11.720 us to do different things. There's a reason why we're 3:34:11.760 --> 3:34:14.000 having a rank and file movement in our union now 3:34:14.560 --> 3:34:18.920 and things aren't just continue like continuing to stagnate I 3:34:18.959 --> 3:34:21.720 think that people recognize that their union has to be 3:34:21.800 --> 3:34:23.960 fighting for them. I think that's a big thing. People 3:34:24.000 --> 3:34:28.360 want the union to fight, not to just kind of 3:34:28.400 --> 3:34:31.520 like sit there and you know, you know, people get 3:34:31.560 --> 3:34:33.760 really frustrated when they feel like their dues are being 3:34:33.760 --> 3:34:37.879 taken and they're not seeing that immediate benefit. The immediate 3:34:37.920 --> 3:34:40.840 benefit only comes when we pull together and we fight back. 3:34:41.680 --> 3:34:45.440 So I think that I totally see what you're saying. 3:34:45.440 --> 3:34:47.240 I think a lot of that comes down to people 3:34:47.920 --> 3:34:50.200 who get into these positions. And this is why we 3:34:50.240 --> 3:34:54.280 believe in the principle of like rotation and like and 3:34:55.160 --> 3:34:59.840 churning over the leadership as much as possible. Is that 3:35:00.080 --> 3:35:02.920 I think when you stay and no one should be 3:35:02.959 --> 3:35:05.840 in the position of organize yourself out of a job. 3:35:05.959 --> 3:35:09.040 Right if you're doing you're if you're being effective, you're 3:35:09.160 --> 3:35:12.600 organizing yourself out of a job. And I have organized 3:35:12.600 --> 3:35:15.640 out of myself out of some jobs. And right now 3:35:15.760 --> 3:35:18.840 I've organized myself out of telling people that there's a 3:35:18.920 --> 3:35:20.879 movement and that we've got to participate in it. And 3:35:20.920 --> 3:35:23.119 now I'm moving on to other things because I have 3:35:23.240 --> 3:35:25.879 like a whole crew of people in my hospital who 3:35:26.040 --> 3:35:29.000 are doing that organizing work without me having to do it. 3:35:29.480 --> 3:35:33.040 So I think that there's like it's can be little 3:35:33.080 --> 3:35:36.040 depressing when you look at like the raw numbers, but 3:35:36.080 --> 3:35:37.840 I think that a lot of that is Like it's 3:35:37.840 --> 3:35:42.039 like if you if your union is clearly not great 3:35:42.080 --> 3:35:44.160 and people kind of complain about it, then yeah, no 3:35:44.160 --> 3:35:46.760 one's going to want to join it. Like if your 3:35:46.840 --> 3:35:50.520 union thinks it's more important to be a landlord or 3:35:50.600 --> 3:35:53.040 you know, stash forty two million dollars in the bank, 3:35:53.080 --> 3:35:55.600 then it is to invest that money in actually building 3:35:56.360 --> 3:36:01.400 organizational expertise or you know, building, And I see the unorganized, 3:36:01.400 --> 3:36:04.200 like Eric was saying, in places or like right to 3:36:04.240 --> 3:36:07.120 work states, which we've won. We have won contracts in 3:36:07.280 --> 3:36:11.760 right right to work states. But you have to be looking. 3:36:11.920 --> 3:36:14.320 You have to be constantly pushing for it. And if 3:36:14.360 --> 3:36:17.000 you can't just take a little win here there and 3:36:17.040 --> 3:36:19.960 then be excited because you just got another union to 3:36:19.959 --> 3:36:22.959 affiliate you like our union does. Like we need to 3:36:22.959 --> 3:36:26.000 be working on actually bringing more and more workers into 3:36:26.040 --> 3:36:30.280 our union and if we don't do that, it will die. 3:36:30.720 --> 3:36:33.560 But um, I think that there's a spirit in the 3:36:33.959 --> 3:36:36.879 you know that you know when you come to a 3:36:36.920 --> 3:36:39.600 place to work, with coworkers and you face common enemy 3:36:39.680 --> 3:36:44.280 and common problems, common conditions. You do see what it 3:36:44.320 --> 3:36:46.440 can look like when people decide to do something on 3:36:46.480 --> 3:36:50.240 their own. You know, to get back to MIA's point 3:36:50.959 --> 3:36:55.720 about declining unionism in this country. In order to, you know, 3:36:55.800 --> 3:36:59.959 to change this decline in unionism, we need to change 3:37:00.520 --> 3:37:03.840 who we are as union members. We need to You 3:37:03.879 --> 3:37:06.840 know that I'm not a big doctor phil fan, but 3:37:06.920 --> 3:37:09.880 he used to say that thing all the time. Well, 3:37:09.879 --> 3:37:13.280 how's that working for you? Unions need to take a 3:37:13.280 --> 3:37:16.680 look at themselves and say how, how how is this 3:37:16.760 --> 3:37:21.880 working for you? We are declining. Why do we continue 3:37:21.920 --> 3:37:24.800 to do the same thing we're doing over and over again. 3:37:26.160 --> 3:37:29.200 We need to change who we are. For example, as 3:37:29.200 --> 3:37:31.760 a nurse, a nurse needs to know when they stand 3:37:31.840 --> 3:37:34.760 up and speak out that when they stand up they 3:37:34.760 --> 3:37:38.000 won't be standing alone, that there'll be somebody around them, 3:37:38.040 --> 3:37:41.320 that other nurses are going to be there right behind them, 3:37:41.360 --> 3:37:45.720 backing them up. And that goes for any trade. You know, 3:37:46.000 --> 3:37:52.880 we we can't progress as workers without struggle, and there 3:37:52.879 --> 3:37:56.760 will be struggle. We need to march forward. We need 3:37:56.800 --> 3:38:02.240 to be able to say everybody that can be any 3:38:02.360 --> 3:38:06.840 union should be any union, and we need to expand 3:38:06.879 --> 3:38:10.320 ourselves as nurses. I mean, I don't want to harp 3:38:10.400 --> 3:38:14.840 on it, but this pandemic was devastating for us, and 3:38:15.120 --> 3:38:20.879 I obviously no nurses worked remotely. I should say no 3:38:21.040 --> 3:38:24.039 bedside nurse worked remotely. I know many of our nurse 3:38:24.080 --> 3:38:27.959 managers worked remotely and checked in on us through you know, 3:38:28.080 --> 3:38:32.040 online things, But for the most part, every nurse, bedside 3:38:32.120 --> 3:38:38.280 nurse was at that bedside. It was not it was 3:38:38.360 --> 3:38:41.199 not pleasant, it was it was something that I'm sure 3:38:42.879 --> 3:38:46.480 many nurses are probably in uh, you know, counseling for 3:38:47.720 --> 3:38:51.880 they were that traumatized by it. Many people had lost 3:38:51.959 --> 3:38:55.080 family members, just like the rest of the public did, 3:38:55.240 --> 3:38:58.760 yet they still had to continue to work. I think 3:38:58.840 --> 3:39:03.120 as a as a union, we need to change who 3:39:03.160 --> 3:39:07.119 we are. And like I said, I don't want to 3:39:07.200 --> 3:39:10.480 point fingers or anything that you know, people that are 3:39:11.360 --> 3:39:13.680 in the union now or the people are running against 3:39:14.280 --> 3:39:17.520 I'm sure they're good people, but we have a different 3:39:17.560 --> 3:39:20.720 idea and we want to bring a change to how 3:39:20.760 --> 3:39:25.080 the union runs. And I think that change will make 3:39:25.200 --> 3:39:28.000 us a stronger and better union and I think will 3:39:28.080 --> 3:39:32.360 be will have happier nurses and wind up with more 3:39:32.440 --> 3:39:36.520 activist nurses who will expand the union. It's going to 3:39:36.560 --> 3:39:40.280 be a word of mouth. You know, one thing. You 3:39:40.320 --> 3:39:43.000 can have the best organization in the world, but the 3:39:43.080 --> 3:39:47.520 things that are the best product, but what really makes 3:39:47.520 --> 3:39:51.840 your product worthwhile is word of mouth campaigns. People have 3:39:51.920 --> 3:39:55.160 to talk about you. People have to say, hey, you 3:39:55.160 --> 3:40:00.600 know that California Nurses Association that and then you they're 3:40:00.600 --> 3:40:04.560 really doing something. I want to be a part of that. Uh, 3:40:05.000 --> 3:40:08.240 you know, we need to you know, we've been pressing 3:40:08.280 --> 3:40:12.400 on a Medicare for all, single payer and and of 3:40:12.440 --> 3:40:17.240 course ratios for everybody, but we need to start organizing 3:40:17.280 --> 3:40:21.240 more and all those states where those workers suffer. Because 3:40:21.280 --> 3:40:24.160 I can tell you this right now. You know, I'd 3:40:24.160 --> 3:40:27.960 ever talked about it with John. Our hospital is filled 3:40:28.000 --> 3:40:32.400 with nurses from the South and they tell you, oh, 3:40:32.600 --> 3:40:37.760 I came to California for the ratios. They need to 3:40:37.800 --> 3:40:41.160 fight for those ratios back in Alabama and Mississippi and 3:40:41.280 --> 3:40:44.480 all the states they come from. We need to help them, 3:40:45.240 --> 3:40:49.160 you know, bring unions to the South. You know, the 3:40:49.160 --> 3:40:53.199 basic core of right of right to work it was racism. 3:40:53.640 --> 3:40:57.360 The racism is what drove right to work. It was 3:40:57.400 --> 3:41:00.240 the same people that brought you. Segregation is what brought 3:41:00.240 --> 3:41:03.960 you right to work, and uh, you know that's a fact. 3:41:04.879 --> 3:41:08.560 Oh and it's important for us that uh you know, 3:41:08.640 --> 3:41:11.600 we want to be an activist union and I'm not 3:41:11.680 --> 3:41:16.360 opposed to that, but we can do that by unionizing 3:41:16.360 --> 3:41:21.720 these hospitals and making those nurses bedside lives a lot better. Um, 3:41:22.560 --> 3:41:26.000 you know Stouton Lynn. It's funny, is that I always laugh, 3:41:26.160 --> 3:41:29.800 you know, John brings it up. I'm from originally from Canton, Ohio, 3:41:30.760 --> 3:41:33.480 and of course Stoughton Lynn taught I believe it was 3:41:33.520 --> 3:41:37.080 at Youngstown State. He was from. He was He spent 3:41:37.160 --> 3:41:39.720 the last part of his life after his Vietnam War 3:41:39.800 --> 3:41:44.880 activism in Youngstown, in the Youngstown area. And I think 3:41:44.920 --> 3:41:47.320 the last book I read by him was Bob Lee's 3:41:47.560 --> 3:41:52.280 and Zapatistas. You know, he was talking about the It's 3:41:52.280 --> 3:41:55.920 a great book. And not many people know about him. 3:41:55.959 --> 3:41:59.200 I knew about him in Ohio because you know, you 3:41:59.240 --> 3:42:04.920 know social justice work there. Uh you know at Walsh 3:42:05.040 --> 3:42:09.320 at that time it was Walsh College and then Walsh University. Now, uh, 3:42:09.360 --> 3:42:13.400 you know Joe Turma, the professor there, you know, was 3:42:13.520 --> 3:42:16.480 often talk about Stoughton Lynn and that's how I you know, 3:42:16.720 --> 3:42:21.160 started reading a lot of his works. Um, the things 3:42:21.200 --> 3:42:25.160 that he says about rank and file workers is something 3:42:25.240 --> 3:42:28.480 that we need to make part of the national conversation. 3:42:29.440 --> 3:42:33.280 And we need to get that message out. We need 3:42:33.320 --> 3:42:37.879 to to to tone down the big union actions and 3:42:37.920 --> 3:42:42.600 the big union talk and let's just make it a 3:42:42.720 --> 3:42:47.279 nurse's conversation. We always talked about our union about nurses values. 3:42:48.040 --> 3:42:54.520 Nurses valuables. Values are invaluable. Uh. They apply to every 3:42:54.560 --> 3:42:58.039 walk of life, every trade. And I think that's what 3:42:58.080 --> 3:43:00.960 we need to do. And I know that's what Mark 3:43:00.959 --> 3:43:02.640 would say if he was on the call with us. 3:43:03.120 --> 3:43:05.480 I just got a text from him. He's almost finished 3:43:05.520 --> 3:43:09.480 with our video, so he's working hard. I mean, the 3:43:09.520 --> 3:43:12.440 guy took two weeks of his own time. And that's 3:43:12.440 --> 3:43:15.880 another thing. Here we are, we are bedside nurses. He 3:43:16.600 --> 3:43:20.800 had to self teach himself how to make pretty high 3:43:20.920 --> 3:43:26.400 end quality videos. And we're not bought and sold. We 3:43:26.440 --> 3:43:30.080 don't hire anybody to do our work for us. We're 3:43:30.120 --> 3:43:33.360 doing this ourselves. We're bootstrapping it, as you know what 3:43:33.440 --> 3:43:37.359 they call bootstrapping it yourself. Up here. We are bootstrapping 3:43:38.400 --> 3:43:41.920 a campaign and a movement. I don't know if we're 3:43:41.959 --> 3:43:45.039 going to win, we are at least going to make 3:43:45.040 --> 3:43:49.160 a hell of an impression on people. And I hope, 3:43:49.879 --> 3:43:54.200 whether we win or lose, that impression goes far and 3:43:54.320 --> 3:43:58.280 that people listen to what we're saying and demand what 3:43:58.320 --> 3:44:02.560 we're staying for. What we want our union to be. 3:44:03.440 --> 3:44:06.600 We don't want to have an sciu like union. We 3:44:06.680 --> 3:44:11.119 don't want to uh like we're paying for services here. 3:44:11.600 --> 3:44:14.920 We want a union that listens to us and does 3:44:14.959 --> 3:44:19.840 what we want. Um, a nurse shouldn't have to beg 3:44:20.480 --> 3:44:25.480 a labor rep to say no. We said no to 3:44:25.520 --> 3:44:28.120 a last, best and final and our labor rep said no. 3:44:28.160 --> 3:44:31.039 This in our professional opinion, this is a good deal. 3:44:31.720 --> 3:44:34.840 Well guess guess what, Mia, We got ten percent more 3:44:34.920 --> 3:44:41.160 by saying no. And I know that that sounds greedy, 3:44:41.200 --> 3:44:45.600 but in reality, um, you know, we do get paid 3:44:46.080 --> 3:44:49.959 considerably more in California than another place in the country. 3:44:49.959 --> 3:44:53.280 But also, to buy a house in a bad neighborhood 3:44:53.320 --> 3:44:56.560 is a million and a half dollars, So it's so 3:44:56.640 --> 3:45:00.280 it's I have to drive an hour away just get 3:45:00.280 --> 3:45:03.960 to work. It is cheaper where I live right now 3:45:04.040 --> 3:45:05.680 than it is in the Bay Area. I could not 3:45:06.080 --> 3:45:07.879 get a house in the Bay Area at all. And 3:45:07.959 --> 3:45:12.080 we should be incorporating housing demands into our negotiations as well, 3:45:12.200 --> 3:45:16.760 like especially the years gonna be a landlord, Like come on, well, okay, 3:45:16.800 --> 3:45:19.800 how about we you know, the first public housing was 3:45:19.840 --> 3:45:24.520 really cooperative housing built by unions. Like there's no reason why. Um, 3:45:25.080 --> 3:45:29.039 you know these some of these institutions are like incredibly 3:45:29.080 --> 3:45:33.480 wealthy and building. Uh, you know, if we can we 3:45:33.600 --> 3:45:35.959 have the kind of power to bring them to you know, 3:45:36.000 --> 3:45:39.760 a screeching halt. We should be able to like, you know, 3:45:39.920 --> 3:45:43.560 get the kind of things that we need to live 3:45:43.720 --> 3:45:46.240 by in our community, like we should be living where 3:45:46.280 --> 3:45:50.240 our patients are anyway. And it's you know, and it's 3:45:50.280 --> 3:45:54.680 a way of bringing our bringing us ourselves into our 3:45:54.720 --> 3:45:57.480 community so that our community is you know that we're 3:45:57.680 --> 3:46:02.879 part of our community. Um. And you know, I think 3:46:02.920 --> 3:46:06.280 we're I'm just gonna say I'm gonna be waking up 3:46:06.280 --> 3:46:08.840 in six hours so that I can go back to work. 3:46:10.000 --> 3:46:12.160 And we want to make sure that people know a 3:46:12.200 --> 3:46:16.720 couple of key things. So there is an election happening. 3:46:16.720 --> 3:46:21.120 If you are a nurse in a CNA, California Nurses 3:46:21.160 --> 3:46:26.320 Association or National Nurses United and NOC like Hospital, there's 3:46:26.360 --> 3:46:29.600 an election happening. Ballots are being mailed out to you 3:46:30.840 --> 3:46:36.600 on channel tenth. We expect that they're going to start 3:46:36.680 --> 3:46:39.680 arriving a day or two after that. We are the 3:46:39.680 --> 3:46:42.400 shift Change slate, so the four of us are running 3:46:42.400 --> 3:46:47.440 for the Council of Presidents. It's Eric, Raina, John and 3:46:48.200 --> 3:46:51.959 Mark And if you want to find us on social media, 3:46:52.040 --> 3:46:55.400 we just got our Instagram account. We are called shift 3:46:55.480 --> 3:46:58.400 Change and on you. We're on TikTok Now we're going 3:46:58.440 --> 3:47:02.000 to be releasing some video Shift Change and and You, 3:47:02.120 --> 3:47:05.120 And then we're also going to have we've got our 3:47:05.160 --> 3:47:09.280 YouTube and Facebook set up as well. Look for us there. 3:47:09.800 --> 3:47:12.320 And we've got to go fund maybe because we've got 3:47:12.360 --> 3:47:15.720 to buy the materials that we are using to help 3:47:15.840 --> 3:47:19.879 organize with. Thankfully, by the sounds of it, our lawyers 3:47:19.920 --> 3:47:25.040 are going to be working for us for because they 3:47:25.240 --> 3:47:27.480 believe in what we're doing. And these are movement lawyers. 3:47:27.480 --> 3:47:31.360 These are not right wing people who want to fight unions. 3:47:31.400 --> 3:47:34.800 They want unions to be accountable to their workers and 3:47:34.800 --> 3:47:38.199 to be strong fighting unions. And that's our main goal 3:47:38.320 --> 3:47:41.200 is we think that our union could be one of 3:47:41.240 --> 3:47:44.720 the most powerful unions in the country if we organize 3:47:44.720 --> 3:47:49.200 and fight, and we organize by building our relationships on 3:47:49.240 --> 3:47:53.359 trust and solidarity, by constantly working to defend our contract, 3:47:53.400 --> 3:47:55.280 and we think that as we build that energy, we 3:47:55.320 --> 3:47:57.640 can take that to all the other things that we 3:47:57.680 --> 3:48:01.040 think are portness nurses. So we talked about nurses values. 3:48:01.040 --> 3:48:03.280 We know those are actually nurses values and not some 3:48:03.400 --> 3:48:05.760 person who decided that they're going to tag along with 3:48:05.840 --> 3:48:08.560 us and ride on our coat tails to you know, 3:48:08.600 --> 3:48:13.600 whatever political future that they think they have. You know, 3:48:13.680 --> 3:48:16.240 we are you know, this is our union, and we're 3:48:16.280 --> 3:48:19.280 going to make it you know, accountable to us so 3:48:19.320 --> 3:48:21.760 that we can change the world and change our workplace 3:48:21.760 --> 3:48:24.480 and make you know, being a nurse one of those 3:48:24.560 --> 3:48:27.039 kind of jobs that people aspire to and not something 3:48:27.040 --> 3:48:28.879 that they come into for two or three years and 3:48:28.879 --> 3:48:34.280 then leave because it's so terrible. So I don't know 3:48:34.280 --> 3:48:36.560 what else to say. I'm ready for chift change, Rain, 3:48:36.640 --> 3:48:39.680 Are you ready for chift change? Yep? And just like 3:48:39.879 --> 3:48:45.039 Nelson Mandela saying I never lose, I either win or 3:48:45.120 --> 3:48:50.840 I learn. Hell yes, hell yeah, I love this. This 3:48:50.879 --> 3:48:52.840 is the stuff I look for. Thank you so much, 3:48:54.720 --> 3:48:57.560 Thank you, Mia, thank you, thank you all for being on. 3:48:57.600 --> 3:48:59.840 This is great and I really hope you all win 3:49:01.240 --> 3:49:04.400 and if we win, bring us back. Yeah. I was 3:49:04.440 --> 3:49:07.000 about to say, yeah, give us a report back. We'll 3:49:07.040 --> 3:49:09.200 tell you, We'll tell you everything that happened, and maybe 3:49:09.320 --> 3:49:11.920 if we win, we'll have a nice victory party and 3:49:11.960 --> 3:49:15.360 maybe we'll let you come out, you and the rest 3:49:15.400 --> 3:49:18.040 of the It could Happen Here crew, Maybe do some 3:49:18.120 --> 3:49:20.480 live stuff for us, because I think be a kick 3:49:20.480 --> 3:49:22.920 out of that. Every time I hear a nurse say 3:49:22.960 --> 3:49:25.320 that I listened to It could Happen Here, a part 3:49:25.360 --> 3:49:31.400 of me just like does a little snoopy happy dance. Hey. 3:49:31.480 --> 3:49:34.600 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:49:34.640 --> 3:49:37.200 now until the heat death of the Universe. It Could 3:49:37.240 --> 3:49:39.520 Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For 3:49:39.680 --> 3:49:42.400 more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 3:49:42.440 --> 3:49:45.320 zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:49:45.360 --> 3:49:48.520 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:49:48.560 --> 3:49:51.240 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 3:49:51.280 --> 3:49:54.520 cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,