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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be nothing new here for you. But

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions. I did eat a

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Speaker 1: whole sleep oreos in front of a seven eleven today

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Speaker 1: and was scalded by a ten year old. It was

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Speaker 1: for medical reasons. Okay, how am I going to introduce?

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Speaker 1: How do we need to start? That's the start, we

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Speaker 1: already got it. Okay, yeah, we'll do the oreos yep,

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Speaker 1: ten year old children? Okay, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is where it works. And today everyone, because it's Monday,

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Speaker 1: we are starting something that we like to call shitty

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Speaker 1: Mas Monday. I don't know as we'll actually let us

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Speaker 1: put shitty in the in the in the title. They

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Speaker 1: might might we'll get that. That's that's what we're calling it.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're calling it on the I can't stop

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Speaker 1: us here. It would be funnier if it just had

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Speaker 1: like ten seconds of bleep and then it was like

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Speaker 1: a mayor's Monday, like I'd said, some truly unfathomable shit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we've noticed that across America right there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of mayors who ran and were elected as liberals, progressives,

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Speaker 1: certainly as Democrats, but tend to have governed in a

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Speaker 1: particularly shitty and terrible way that doesn't really have any

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Speaker 1: material difference from a Republican mayor, but like the way

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Speaker 1: that they post on Instagram is a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: So I guess that is nice. And we're starting with

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Speaker 1: the town I live in, which is San Diego, and

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Speaker 1: with the mayor we have, who is Todd Gloria. The

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Speaker 1: people might have heard of Todd Gloria, and last year

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Speaker 1: we did we did an episode with several people who

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Speaker 1: work with an housed people in San Diego, mutual Aid

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Speaker 1: workers advocates, and they spoke a lot about Tod Gloria.

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Speaker 1: Not in gloing terms, but we spoke about Tod Gloria.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about his record on homeless,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about his life a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to look at sort of the

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Speaker 1: promises he made when he was elected, I guess, and

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Speaker 1: the things that he's done, which it will shock you

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Speaker 1: to hear, are not the same things. And we're also

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Speaker 1: going to talk about his hip hop video. Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Bunnily really yeah he did. He did Return of the Mac,

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Speaker 1: but hilariously changed it to Todd Gloria is Back. Oh yeah, no.

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Speaker 1: If you want to see some problematically sinking, you're going

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, ok, brace yourself. Did a local newspaper had

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Speaker 1: a headline that called it the cringiest video ever, which

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Speaker 1: rare win for local media. Everyone's in a while local

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Speaker 1: news does one good thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, occasionally, like

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Speaker 1: like like a stopped clock there, yeah exactly. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right. So when Todd Gloria talks about his early life,

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Speaker 1: he talks about being the son of a maid in

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Speaker 1: a gardener, and it's a way I think of distinguishing

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Speaker 1: himself from the very few elites who have held power

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Speaker 1: in the city for a very long time, people whose

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Speaker 1: names are on every building. But his dad's LinkedIn profile

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit of a different story. According

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Speaker 1: to his own LinkedIn account, Phil Glorier A sixty four

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Speaker 1: has been in the aerospace industry for many years, including

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Speaker 1: as a production controller at General Atomics, who people might

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Speaker 1: remember as a manufacturers of the Predator and Reaper drones.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so it's a slightly different story, right, It's

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Speaker 1: different from maiden a gardener. Prior to working at General Atomics,

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Speaker 1: fil Gloria works for fourteen years the supervisor at United

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Speaker 1: Technologies and other errors space and technology company. Gloria has

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Speaker 1: clarified later that his parents didn't work in those specific fields,

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Speaker 1: that the son of a maiden a guidener thing recently,

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Speaker 1: but they did when he was born, so he wasn't

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Speaker 1: He's not. Yeah, I don't, that's bullshit. Like I could.

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Speaker 1: I I could take this argument and argue that, like

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Speaker 1: I am the child of like a pancake maker and

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Speaker 1: a dishwasher, like this is yeah, yeah, it's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's sort of classic like this classic politicians, right, like

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Speaker 1: like telling enough of the truth for it not to

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Speaker 1: be a lie, but but maybe not telling the whole truth.

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Speaker 1: And like I know, like like my folks worked in

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Speaker 1: agriculture when I was a kid. They still do, but

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Speaker 1: like they also worked very hard you know to like

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Speaker 1: provide for me and get a better place in life,

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Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want to run them down by denigrating

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Speaker 1: the work that they did, but hey, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be a mayor either. Um yeah, it's also like also, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't get to do your fucking like

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Speaker 1: burnishing working class credentials, and then your dad worked for

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Speaker 1: a fucking like like yeah, yeah, none of my parents

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Speaker 1: have ever made a Reaper drone, so I guess I

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Speaker 1: do have that in my favor. It is an extremely

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Speaker 1: San Diego story. In twenty twenty, to San Diego Union

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Speaker 1: Tribune wrote he was running. So the San Diego story

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Speaker 1: that allowed his mother a hotel maid and his father

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Speaker 1: a gardener, to work hard and afford a home doesn't

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Speaker 1: end with their generation. That story seemed to admit the

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Speaker 1: glaring reality that San Diego is one of the least

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Speaker 1: affordable cities in the world right now, and it's housing

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Speaker 1: as unaffordable as ever has been, and it's got worse

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Speaker 1: since tog Gloria became mayor. So who is tog Gloria.

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Speaker 1: He's an enrolled member of the Tlinget hyda Indian tribe

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Speaker 1: of Alaska. He was born and raised in San Diego

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Speaker 1: and graduated from the University of San Diego with a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's degree in history and political science. He began his

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Speaker 1: career to San Diego's Health and Human Services Agency, and

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Speaker 1: then he worked with Congresswoman's Susan Davis, who became his mentor.

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Speaker 1: He was elected to the city Council in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight and two and twelve and served as interim

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Speaker 1: mayor from August twenty thirteen to March twenty foty. He

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Speaker 1: was also elected to the California State Assembly in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen and twenty eighteen, and he chose not to seek

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Speaker 1: reelection for the Assembly when he launched his campaign for

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Speaker 1: mayor in twenty twenty. So he's done the kind of

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Speaker 1: the sort of the climb up of offices that you

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Speaker 1: see a lot of these folks do, right, And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that he has admissions to run for further office.

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Speaker 1: That would be my guests. So in twenty twenty he

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Speaker 1: was elected mayor of San Diego. He became our first

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Speaker 1: gay mayor, our first mayor of color, our first indigenous mayor.

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Speaker 1: So it was a lot of first for us, and

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Speaker 1: it is good to have a gay indigenous mayor, right

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Speaker 1: like if we're going to have a mayor. You didn't know.

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Speaker 1: It's nice to it's a position, it's over to more people.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately he hasn't done a lot else to encourage

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Speaker 1: up with social mobility. He made a big push for

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Speaker 1: private sector housing building as opposed to subsidize public housing,

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Speaker 1: and he promised police reform. In a twenty twenty op

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Speaker 1: ed for The Union Tribune, Lauria wrote, we watched in

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Speaker 1: horror as George Floyd was killed by four Minneapolis police officers.

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Speaker 1: Mister Floyd and other victims of excessive force by law

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Speaker 1: enforcement demand that we revisit, reconsider, and reimagine how police

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Speaker 1: operate in our community and how we expect them to

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Speaker 1: interact with the public. It's time we work together to

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Speaker 1: create a more just system of policing. The primary responsibility

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Speaker 1: of government is protected people, all people. Many of us

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Speaker 1: don't feel safe or protected, particularly our black community, so

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Speaker 1: it seems like like a pro at least reform statement, right.

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Speaker 1: He went on to say, whether it's our mental health

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Speaker 1: crisis or a homelessness crisis, we resort to the same solution.

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Speaker 1: Send the police and arrest people. We have to stop

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Speaker 1: severely penalizing some people for minor missteps and invest in

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Speaker 1: lifting people up from difficult situations. I will need to

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Speaker 1: put a pin in that. As we talk about his politics,

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Speaker 1: it will shock you to hear that he's done exactly that.

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Speaker 1: He also wrote, the rapidly expanding and secretive use of

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Speaker 1: digital surveillance of our community members is unconstitutional and it

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Speaker 1: should end. Again. Put a pin in that as we

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Speaker 1: get back to discussion of the cameras that we're putting

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Speaker 1: on street lights in San Diego. So In a PDF

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Speaker 1: of his plan to end homelessness, which has been removed

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Speaker 1: from his campaign website but were sank represerved by our

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Speaker 1: friends at Voice of San Diego, Gloria wrote, no more

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Speaker 1: criminalizing the existence of San Diego's poorest and residents. He

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Speaker 1: also told right wing news station KUSI that San Diego

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Speaker 1: cannot claim to be America's finest city, or even a

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Speaker 1: great city where thousands of people live, unsheltered and dying

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Speaker 1: on our streets. It's time to stop the band aids,

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Speaker 1: the temporary solutions, and bad policy from city hall on

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Speaker 1: this issue, he said, As mayor, my administration will prioritize

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Speaker 1: ending chronic homelessness. I will focus the city's energy and

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Speaker 1: resources on results oriented programs proven to get homeless individuals

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Speaker 1: off the street, connected to services, and back on their feet. Now,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, while it is tru one, is that

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Speaker 1: anything Okay, Like any person who was running from mayor

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Speaker 1: is a system out could lying to you about what

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Speaker 1: they're going to do. The second thing is, if you

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Speaker 1: ever hear someone say the words results oriented, it is

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Speaker 1: time to grab like the largest saber you have and like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: get to work. Oh yeah, and as we'll discover the

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Speaker 1: results that he has oriented towards. Somewhat disappointing for folk.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say for all of us hashtag

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Speaker 1: for all of us is his campaign slogan. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's very cringe and I don't know will it.

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Speaker 1: It's very sad when we see the impact of this

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Speaker 1: for like the least fortune of people in San Diego

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Speaker 1: and then like it, it is very funny, but when

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Speaker 1: you see how this plays out on the street, So

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Speaker 1: it's also very sad. You know what is also very

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Speaker 1: funny kind of sad mia the coin So yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a Ronald Reagan silver coins that pay for my

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Speaker 1: friends to get hormones so please enjoy these adverts. Thank

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Speaker 1: thank you Ally Ronald Reagan for funding HRT. Yeah, thanks

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Speaker 1: for Ronnie. All Right, we're back and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: Todd Gloria, san Diego's mayor, and we've just before the

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Speaker 1: break we talked about like his promises, right, so let's

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Speaker 1: see how he did on those promises. I want to

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Speaker 1: start with January nine, twenty tw one, told Gloria taken

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Speaker 1: office a few days before. If you can cost your

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Speaker 1: mind back, then there have been a significant event at

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Speaker 1: the Capitol a couple of days before Proud Boys, theo

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Speaker 1: Nazis ether assorted Chuds decided to visit San Diego. Three

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Speaker 1: days after they visited the capitol, anti fascists assembled shows

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Speaker 1: them they weren't welcome, and the police responded by declaring

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Speaker 1: the anti Fascis assembly illegal, escorting the Chuds around Pacific

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Speaker 1: Beach as they did various crimes, and trying to shoot

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Speaker 1: me in the dick with pepper balls. Garrison's just smirking,

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Speaker 1: I thought, Gloria, the guy who ran on police reform,

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Speaker 1: had this to say. Mayor Gloria spoke candidly about what

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Speaker 1: happened at the Capitol and how that's reverberating around the

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Speaker 1: country after seeing what happened in Washington on Wednesday. What

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Speaker 1: are you doing out on our streets supporting that mess right, racism, fascism,

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Speaker 1: anti democracy? Why would you choose to be out there,

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Speaker 1: Gloria says, despite his feelings, San Diego supports peaceful protests

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Speaker 1: of all kinds. But on Saturday, police say three people

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Speaker 1: were arrested and five officers suffered minor injuries. We're asking

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Speaker 1: for the public's assistance and helping us identify some of

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Speaker 1: those folks, but we were not able to apprehend yesterday

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Speaker 1: to make sure that how to account all these are

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Speaker 1: people on both sides of the debate, both sides, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both sides. So some of you remember some other people

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Speaker 1: have caught out people on both sides the debate. So

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Speaker 1: I think the most blatant sort of thing he did

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Speaker 1: with regards to the police comes after Derek Shovin the

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Speaker 1: copy murdered George Floyd was convicted of murder. I guess

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Speaker 1: a few you can probably remember where you were that day.

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Speaker 1: I can remember I was, and it was at the

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Speaker 1: very least after an entire summer of protest right it

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Speaker 1: was like the smallest token instance accountability, but I guess

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Speaker 1: at least it was something. And in that moment told Gloria,

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Speaker 1: who was looking at that same thing that nearly everyone

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Speaker 1: was looking at in this country that day. Right. He

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Speaker 1: thought about what he wanted to do, and he decided

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Speaker 1: that rather than talking to black organizers who have been

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Speaker 1: the street for almost a year and have been peppable

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Speaker 1: and tear gassed and mace and never stop demanding justice,

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Speaker 1: he was instead going to call the cops and in

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Speaker 1: such many such cases, yeah yeah, and checked out the

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Speaker 1: video that the verdict wasn't making them sad. What he

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Speaker 1: did was took over the entire police like scanner radio

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Speaker 1: thing and delivered a message to the cops, which I've

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Speaker 1: got audio of here. Collie. This is Mere Todd Gloriam.

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Speaker 1: I want to address each and every single one of

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Speaker 1: you who nobly serve our great city. Today's verdict is

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Speaker 1: just the beginning of building a deeper trust with our community.

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Speaker 1: Justice reserved today against someone who does not represent you,

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Speaker 1: or US, or our department, or who we are as

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Speaker 1: a nation. So I want you to hear from me today.

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Speaker 1: I know who you are. You are people who helped

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Speaker 1: complete strangers on the worst day in their life. You

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Speaker 1: are people who believe in collaboration, in community. You're who

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Speaker 1: put your lives on the line every single day to

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Speaker 1: protect this city. I and the people of sand are

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Speaker 1: grateful for your dedication and your service. With today's decision made,

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Speaker 1: there's now time for all of us to come together,

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Speaker 1: to heal and to move forward. Please take care of yourself,

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Speaker 1: of each other. You know the people of this great city.

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Speaker 1: Be safe. Everybody. Has anyone ever said the words to

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Speaker 1: move forward and not be like not just be an

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Speaker 1: absolute dipshit. It sounds like it was written by an

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Speaker 1: ai y. Yeah, if you had a chat GPT for

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Speaker 1: a liberal mayor, it wouldn't look hugely different to what

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Speaker 1: liberal mayor's statements. Yeah yeah, chat GPT right, liberal mayor

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Speaker 1: writing a ponto the cops. Now it's time to heal

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Speaker 1: and come together as a community. Yeah, stop you black

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Speaker 1: lives mattering. It's it's scary. Yeah. Yeah, it was extremely

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Speaker 1: cringe like, especially when you consider how it differs from

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Speaker 1: what he was saying just a few months ago. And

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Speaker 1: that again, like this was about a man who murdered

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Speaker 1: someone and that somebody in it was an STPD who

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Speaker 1: killed the person, but somebody in San Diego died in

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Speaker 1: similar circumstances with someone doing a carotid restraint on them.

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Speaker 1: A few days before this, Gloria also proposed a budget.

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Speaker 1: In his budget, he proposed that we cut library hour

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Speaker 1: significantly and lay off one hundred and fifty three library employees,

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Speaker 1: but give the police nineteen million dollars more than a

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Speaker 1: previous year. The previous year, I probably don't have to

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Speaker 1: remind people, is a year in which San Diegans had

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Speaker 1: turned up in droves at zoom council meetings to urge

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Speaker 1: the city to do the exact opposite of this. Let's

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Speaker 1: check in on that surveillance claim he made. You remember

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Speaker 1: that he said it was unconstitutional, right, So, on the

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Speaker 1: second of this year, told Gloria in a shocking vault

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Speaker 1: fast tweeted streetlight cameras and license plates readers can be

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Speaker 1: helpful public safety tools. You know, just because he thinks

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Speaker 1: it's unconstitution or doesn't mean he doesn't think it's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's once again been held back from protecting your people,

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Speaker 1: San Diego by that pesky constitution. The city pass strong

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Speaker 1: privacy protections last year and now it's time for at

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Speaker 1: San Diego PD to use this technology to keep us safe.

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Speaker 1: Public meetings to get this done start soon. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: these street lights, they were deactivated in twenty twenty, but

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Speaker 1: they had previously been introduced and build us a way

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Speaker 1: to assess traffic patterns, but in fact, they never assessed

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Speaker 1: traffic patterns. Yeah, yeah, this will shock you. They put

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Speaker 1: thousands of cameras and microphones on our streets, including one

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Speaker 1: outside a planned parenthood facility, you know, for traffic. You know,

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Speaker 1: the funniest part about this, this was literally the thing

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Speaker 1: about doing traffic science was this was literally Tom Cruise's

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Speaker 1: cover story and like one of the early Mission Impossible movies.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we have next. Is it fucking scientology

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Speaker 1: coming for San Diego. Yeah, it'll it'll shock you to

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Speaker 1: hear that we stopped using these for very reasonable people

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Speaker 1: had very reasonable concerns in twenty twenty that you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not a good idea for the cops to be

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Speaker 1: able to see and hear everything that you do, to

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Speaker 1: be able to read your license plate and see everywhere

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Speaker 1: that you go. Beton wants some back and if people

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Speaker 1: actually want to follow the discussion about having them back,

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Speaker 1: because every single time, like every single public meeting, there's

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Speaker 1: someone and they'll stand up and have a vehement like

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Speaker 1: position pro cameras, and then it'll turn out that they

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Speaker 1: are like a prosecutor at the DA's office, or in

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Speaker 1: one instance, there was a prosecutor in one instance who

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Speaker 1: insisted he was there in his personal capacity. But like

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Speaker 1: the lieutenant for Sauron is defending the surveillance cameras that

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Speaker 1: are being posted around Middle Earth. Curious this, this guy

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Speaker 1: whose name is not Big Brother, is here to advocate

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Speaker 1: for having cameras in your home. The king of the

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Speaker 1: new surveilance for a crash. But he's wearing a a

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Speaker 1: fake mustache, so you can't tell who he is. So

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Speaker 1: let's look at what he said about stopping criminalizing homelessness, right,

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Speaker 1: and this is a big, big issue. In San Diego.

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Speaker 1: We have a massive and growing unhouse population because our

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Speaker 1: rents are exceptionally high and our waits are not, so

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Speaker 1: the number of unhoused people has increased in the Gloria

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Speaker 1: so of death on the street, which hit a record

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Speaker 1: of five hundred and seventy four in the county last year.

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Speaker 1: So that's think it's more than one person dying every

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Speaker 1: single day in the streets. Right. He's opened some shelters,

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Speaker 1: but some scouters are scheduled to close. The shelter beds

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Speaker 1: and traditional transitional housing provided have failed to grow at

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Speaker 1: the same rate as the young house population. Let's haven't

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Speaker 1: stopped him taking photos and claiming every single one. It's

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Speaker 1: a huge step forward. We also continue to build what

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Speaker 1: it called congregate shelters, which don't give people privacy, right,

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Speaker 1: which don't give them A lot of people might not

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Speaker 1: want to go into a congreate shelter, into effectively a dormitory,

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Speaker 1: and there are a number of reasons why you might

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Speaker 1: not want to do that, and yet that's what we're building.

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Speaker 1: There are also some other sort of single lot composity shelters,

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Speaker 1: but nowhere near enough. He's been a huge backer of

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Speaker 1: something called California's Care Court. Are you guys familiar with

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Speaker 1: the care Court at all? No? No, this shit is dystopian.

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Speaker 1: This could be a whole episode. Maybe one day it

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Speaker 1: will be CARE stands for community assistance, recovery and empowerment,

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Speaker 1: which I have a feeling that this is not going

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Speaker 1: to be about empowerment. Yeah, when it's empowering someone Garrison,

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Speaker 1: but it's not empowered to people we might want to empower.

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Speaker 1: What it is in practice, it's a massive expansion of

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Speaker 1: force conservatives ship. So I'm going to quote from Human

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Speaker 1: Rights Watch here. Human Rights Watch said the plan promotes

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Speaker 1: a system of involuntary coerced treatment enforced by an expanded

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Speaker 1: judicial infrastructure that will, in practice simply remove unhoused people

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Speaker 1: with perceived mental health conditions from the public eye without

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Speaker 1: effectively addressing those mental health conditions. Jesus, Yeah, it's pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: It's it doesn't provide money for mental health services. It

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Speaker 1: takes money that's already existing in the budget and puts

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Speaker 1: it across to court mandated treatment. It doesn't provide housing,

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Speaker 1: which the multiple studies share that Housing First's approach a

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Speaker 1: housing first approach is a way to solve homelessness. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it allows for a broad range of people, which include

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Speaker 1: family members, first responders including cops and outreach workers, the

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Speaker 1: public guardian, service providers, and the director of the county

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Speaker 1: Behavioral Health Agency, to refer individuals to the jurisdiction of

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Speaker 1: the court to take away their autonomy and liberty. It

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Speaker 1: very broadly covers people it describes to having schizophrenia, spectrum

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Speaker 1: or other psychotic disorders. Under this system, judges can force

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Speaker 1: people into treatment and housing. If they don't comply, they

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Speaker 1: can be forced into conservatorship. Now, obviously evidence doesn't support

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Speaker 1: the conclusion that involuntary outpatient treatment it's more effective than

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Speaker 1: intensive voluntary outpatient treatment, and indeed it does show that

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Speaker 1: involuntary coercive treatment is harmful. But it isn't really about

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Speaker 1: people with mental health. It's about keeping a house people

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Speaker 1: where they can't be seen. And Human Rights Watch claims

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Speaker 1: that this violates due process and international human rights conventions.

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Speaker 1: And yet the quote Glory and Gavin you some to

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Speaker 1: be fair, who I'm sure we'll run for president soon,

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Speaker 1: have been cheer leading this and it's I'm surprised it

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Speaker 1: hasn't got more press coverage internationally and nationally. Sorry, because

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Speaker 1: it's a massive assault on personal freedoms, right, and it's

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Speaker 1: extremely easy to effectively say that somebody quote unquote need

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Speaker 1: to mental health, help force them into conservatorship. And if

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Speaker 1: they're not willing to attend these treatments, so they're not

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Speaker 1: able to attend these treatments, so they're not willing to

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Speaker 1: go into the housing that they are assigned. Let's say

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Speaker 1: that they don't want to live in in congret at housing,

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Speaker 1: right or something like that, Or they're in housing with

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Speaker 1: someone who they don't feel comfortable or safe with them,

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Speaker 1: they could be forced into conservatorship and effectively lose all

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Speaker 1: their liberty. Right. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's a new

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Speaker 1: and exciting way of criminalizing homelessness effectively. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't provide housing, it doesn't provide funding for behavioral healthcare.

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Speaker 1: It just directs existing funding to court mandated programs. So

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Speaker 1: I could pick hundreds of other examples of this tod

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Speaker 1: glorious stuff, but I want to pick one more to

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Speaker 1: focus on, and it's something that I think it gets

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Speaker 1: a little bit like inside politics, grifty stuff, but it

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Speaker 1: like it has ruined a good number of careers in

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Speaker 1: San Diego politics. And I'm really heavily indebted to that

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Speaker 1: plan certain Voice of San Diego for their reporting on this.

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Speaker 1: But let's start by talking about public restrooms. So I

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Speaker 1: think most of us are going to agree that like

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Speaker 1: having a safe place to shit and wash your hands

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Speaker 1: is a pretty basic human right, but in San Diego

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Speaker 1: it's something that not everyone has so since two thousand four,

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Speaker 1: grand jury reports have warned the city's inadequate public restroom

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Speaker 1: infrastructure could become a public health threat. That's what happened

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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen when a hepatip itis

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Speaker 1: a swept through the city, sickening five eighty two people

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Speaker 1: and killing twenty. So after the heapet, yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: a thing that like you expect, right and like like

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Speaker 1: on the left coast in America's find a city. Most

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Speaker 1: Americans will not encounter, thankfully, hepatitis in their lifetime and

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Speaker 1: sadly made this isn't our only hepatitis outbreak, so that's great.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, And so after the hep A outbreak, the

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Speaker 1: city stopped locking restrooms at night, which had done previously,

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Speaker 1: but that changed with the COVID pandemic when the facilities

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Speaker 1: were temporarily closed and some have since not returned to

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Speaker 1: twenty four seventh service. Following this, a twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: Shigella outbreak second at least forty one homeless residents, most

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Speaker 1: of whom were staying in Central San Diego, further shed

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Speaker 1: light on the city's restroom issues. Much as this was

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Speaker 1: dealt with in a great report by Bella Ross in

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Speaker 1: the Voice of San Diego, to which Gloria commented, the

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Speaker 1: goal here isn't to add as many permanent public restrooms

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Speaker 1: as possible. The goal is to help get unsheltered residents

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Speaker 1: off the streets and into safe, sanitary shelter and permanent housing.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't quite know where he was going for here,

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Speaker 1: but not having a place to shit is an everyone issue.

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Speaker 1: This isn't just an unhoused issue, right, Like everybody poops,

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Speaker 1: and not all of us live in houses and have

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Speaker 1: giant offices in city Hall downtown. And so it was

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Speaker 1: this bizarre kind of gas lighting approach, like we fundamentally

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Speaker 1: have an issue with access to bathrooms and to try

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Speaker 1: and like reframe this as another issue where he's also failing.

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Speaker 1: Was It's kind of indicative of their response, but also

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Speaker 1: very bizarre. Where the city has installed new bathrooms, they're

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Speaker 1: often installed by private groups as part of development projects,

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Speaker 1: which is great, right, A good old a public private

428
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: partnership has never gone wrong before. So it will shock

429
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: you to hear that these private groups are responsible for

430
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: maintaining and securing these facilities. And this means that they're

431
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: often a lot. So despite literal human shit being all

432
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: over downtown and people are being forced to endure the

433
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: massive a dignity of having nowhere to poop. In December

434
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,719
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, researched by stsu's Project for Sanitation Justice

435
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: found that less than half of the city's permanent restrooms

436
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: could be considered truly open access, and that just two

437
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: permanent facilities were available around the clock, seven days a week.

438
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Gloria has later acknowledged that city has an issue, but

439
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: he's chosen to blame residents. I just need folks to

440
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: quit acting a fool in these bathrooms. I mean, it's

441
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: not just a homeless population, it's everybody, he said in

442
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: an interview. In February twenty twenty three, nearly five years

443
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: after the last outbreak, San Diego County again began recording

444
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: an uptake and hepatitis say cases, which is great, Right,

445
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: We're back to where we started. Much of this reporting

446
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: was met with absolutely unhinged responses on Twitter from some

447
00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: of Glorious staff. They called themselves a todd squad that sucks. Yeah, yeah,

448
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: it's pretty bad. So not tour responses come from Dave

449
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: Roland who left the old weekly City Beak for a

450
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: job in PR and Rachel Lane, who she's tuggs I

451
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: think ahead of public relations. She spent June of twenty

452
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: twenty posting about black Lives Matter, whilst also doing volunteer

453
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: public relations to work for the cops. Wow, amazing, Yeah

454
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: yeah here public relations. Yeah yeah, yeah, like there there

455
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: there's there's like a there's like a joke on like

456
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: there's this like a sort of pejorative label for the okay,

457
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: so on Chinese Twitter, there's this there's a joke of

458
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: calling people unpaid five cent army, which is like army

459
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: is like or well, the number of sense changes over time.

460
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: But it's like there there used to be a thing

461
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: where like you could get paid by the government to

462
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: get like like to to to like that you get

463
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: paid pro post to like posts. Wow, whatever fucking shit

464
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: the Chinese government wanted to like have posts on. But

465
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: this person's actually literally an unpaid but like actual usually

466
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: literally like volume cheer. Yeah, volunteer public relations for the cops,

467
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck is this bullshit? Oh yeah, it

468
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: was really a magical public when I sent that PRRA email, Yeah, yeah,

469
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: I think she framed it as like helping the community

470
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: and the police talk to one another in a difficult time.

471
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: The future is the giant boot stamping on your faces

472
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: when people volunteer to paint the boot. Yes, yeah, yeah,

473
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: yeah it is a rainbow boot. Yeah, I mean you

474
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: can you can find their feed. Some of the attacks

475
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: on myself and some of my colleagues are like incredibly

476
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: petty and unprofessional and also quite nerving when you consider

477
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: the huge amounts of taxpair money that are wasted on

478
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: their salaries which pay them to post. And again, this

479
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: is a town where people die because they don't have

480
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: a place to take a shit. But but we're paying

481
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: people to get into Twitter beef. You know. It's it's

482
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: also it's it's also really cool that like the the

483
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: sort of two axes of American politics are you can't

484
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: use the bathroom because you're trans, and you can't use

485
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 1: the bathroom because you don't own one. And then sometimes

486
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: they just coverage and it's the same yeah yeah, yeah,

487
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: locking yeah, that's the hands clasping meme locking trans people

488
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom. All right, So now we're about

489
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: to get to Todd Squad's finest hour, which is when

490
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: they use city resources and work time to make a

491
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: video of them singing Return of the Mac. Only it

492
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: wasn't Return of the Mac. It was Todd Gloria's back

493
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm going to make you all watch it.

494
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: So that was that was? Was he walking through a

495
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: city hall? Yeah? Was the first part him walking to

496
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: a security line at the airport. Yeah, which is funny.

497
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: That's a security line to get into city hall. Yeah, okay, okay,

498
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: have you have you never been to a city hall before?

499
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: Mine didn't have that? Certainly does now Chicago, Yes, it

500
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: certainly has that. Now my local town one didn't. Are

501
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: they are they saying that the mayor lied to the city?

502
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: Is that what they're saying? They Yeah, the previous math

503
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: Oh the okay, wasn't he the previous mayor? Only for

504
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of time then he he was entering Math. Okay,

505
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: they're blake. Oh my god, I believe you when you said,

506
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: why is on me? One guy? That was like twelve guys. Yeah,

507
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: it feels like it's gone on for like forty minutes. Yeah,

508
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: if stalin grad there's a point where they come in

509
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: dressed as flavor flav but I think it's here and anyway,

510
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 1: one of them's wearing a medallion that just says Cocks

511
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: on it. The egg Glory is wearing a medallion here

512
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: we can probably no note, hang on here he is

513
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: again he said, franchise. That's some cops. What is the

514
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: leg of the ground circle? I think their heads touching.

515
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: There's a person with the cocks medallion. Again, this is okay.

516
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: So is one of the worst things that people showed

517
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: up with the chain that it was like an SD

518
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: for San Diego. When it first comes on to screen,

519
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: it really looks like a swassica the Padres logos. That's like, yes,

520
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: now shitty asked to go. The Padres did a different genocide,

521
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: and it should it be a conflict with the other genocide.

522
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm guessing this is like a sports thing or something. Yeah, yeah,

523
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: yeah they are the sports ball team. That's what I

524
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: thought baseball to be specific. M very proud of him. Yeah,

525
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, as you'll have noticed, one of the most

526
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: cringe things that has ever fucking happened. Yeah, it's pretty bad, right,

527
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: like like it's it's it's pretty crushing when like, like

528
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: I have personally known people who have died on our

529
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: streets and also my Merria is making return of the

530
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: Mac videos dressed as Flavor Flavor. So I think we're

531
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: mostly done. I want to talk about one more thing,

532
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: because no review of San Diego politics will be complete

533
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: without a mention of the giant monument to Griff that

534
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: is one on one Ash Street? So what is one

535
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: on one Street? In twenty sixteen, San Diego leased a

536
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: downtown high rise hoping to house city employees. It turned

537
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: out that building was riddled with asbestos. And it turns

538
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: out the city knew it is riddled when it started

539
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: to lease the building. Yeah. Yeah, And then it will

540
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: shock you to know that they deny this at first.

541
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: But in the agreement to lease to own the building,

542
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: it says Bayer acknowledges that the building contained asbestos and

543
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: that SEMPRA has maintained an asbestos monitoring and handling program.

544
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: So eventually, in twenty nineteen they managed to move staff

545
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: in after a renovation that ballooned in cost. In twenty twenty,

546
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: they were forced to evacuate the building because of the asbestos.

547
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: Since then, DA's investigation has been opened into Jason Hughes,

548
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: who publicly represented himself as a volunteer advisor to the city,

549
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: according to Voice of San Diego, but unbeknownst to the city,

550
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: collected nine point four million dollars from Cistero, who owned

551
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: one on one ashtreet. The City Attorney's office alleged but

552
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: could not prove that the city's former top bureaucrat, Chris Michael,

553
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: ordered City Information Technology Star to purge record tied to

554
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: the one on one as Street debarcle last year so

555
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: they can improve that she paid to records. But what

556
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: they do know that she did was pass a confidential

557
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: legal document to Corey Briggs, a candidate for the city attorney.

558
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: NBC reported that the memo included a footnote, which Eliot

559
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: and others later decried as fabricated. In the footnote, they

560
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: claimed that Elliot's office made an effort to shield Gloria

561
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: from an outside probe at the one on one Ash

562
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: Street debarcle. The footnote suggested an interview with Gloria might

563
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: have clarified why the city decided to go forward with

564
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: the Ash Street lease, given Gloria's skepticism about a similar

565
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: past deal. So it's not clear if this If this

566
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: footnote was real or fabricated like then it's alleged it

567
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: was fabricated, which it's bizarre, like this whole sort of weird, corrupt,

568
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: corrupt thing is resigned. It may this may well not

569
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: be true. To be clear, during this time, Dorian Hargrove,

570
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: who was a reporter, obtained some of those records, faced

571
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: legal threat of prosecution from the city attorney and lost

572
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: his job for obtaining those records. So far, the city

573
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: has poured more than sixty million into one oh one Street,

574
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: roughly the same amount of this annual library budget. It's

575
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: only occupied the office space. Yeah, it's great, it's absolutely into.

576
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: This has been occupied for like less than a couple

577
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: of months for the five years since the city acquired it.

578
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: Are they do? Do? Do do? Do we know what

579
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: their ties to like the contractors who are doing the

580
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: renovations are, and that will be an interesting thing. I

581
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: actually don't know that. Yeah, because that that's like that

582
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: that's that's that's like that's the classic Illinois griff. Yeah.

583
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: You just keep keep renovating a building, keep getting donations

584
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: from the from the contractors, well or or or the

585
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: contractors are just your friends and so that's okay, Yeah,

586
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: keep the money around. Yeah, well they're not doing any

587
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 1: more contracting on it here because the city agreed to

588
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: buy the building, which needs one hundred and fifteen million

589
00:33:54,920 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: million dollars in repairs, for eighty six million last year. Yeah,

590
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: it's good stuff. Amazing yep. This week, the UT reported

591
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: at San Diego's top real estate official did not seek

592
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: input from her staff or a view internal files before

593
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: recommending a city buy out the one or one as

594
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: Street lease. They also reported that in a confidential memo

595
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: to the city Auditor's office, anonymous employees wrote, the City

596
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: of San Diego should be aware of the level of

597
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: waste and abuse that is occurring within the Real Estate

598
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: and Airport Management Department, which has led to a toxic, hostile,

599
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 1: revenue wasting, and unproductive work environment. Which is great. Yep.

600
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: This is a San Diego we wanted hashtag for all

601
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: of us. So this is a lot of inside San

602
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: Diego politics, right. So it's a lot of lists of

603
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: things and promises made and promises broken. But I want

604
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: to come back to the fact that this is a

605
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: guy who ran for Mare on a ticket the push

606
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: compassion and a relative liberal set of policies, and he's

607
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: done the exact opposite in his time in office, he

608
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: ran as a progressive downe very well to differentiate himself

609
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: policy wise from mayor's like Republican Kevin Fulkner. Obviously, we're

610
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: just cracking the lid on some of these policies here.

611
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: He's consistently chosen to suppund it, to fund and support

612
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: the police over the people of the city. He's consistently

613
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: moved to make it harder to live on the streets

614
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: and harder to get off the streets, and he's consistently

615
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: chosen photo opportunities over real of governance for the city.

616
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: His pr people spend hours bashing mutual aid workers like

617
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: Michael who he had a guest on the show on Twitter,

618
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: and wasting taxpayer money doing it. Just this week, he

619
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: welcomed right wing maniac Rishi Sunac, who actually as Prime

620
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: Minister of the UK. Despite the fact that people haven't

621
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: noticed to our city and San Diego State University researchers

622
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: released a report saying negative interactions with police are driving

623
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: black people who are experiencing homelessness away from services and

624
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: housing opportunities. This is what we got from a mayor

625
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: who positioned himself as a progressive and as governed as

626
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: a Rainbow Republican. So yeah, that's I would say. That's

627
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: all I have to say about Todgloria. If you follow

628
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, you'll know that it's not the case,

629
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: and I will continue to have more to say about Gloria.

630
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's really sad. It's deeply sad. And like

631
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: I said, it's funny. The crnty Mutic music video is funny.

632
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: We'll linked to it in the show notes, but it's

633
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: it's also really deeply troubling that this has real impacts

634
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: for real people who are already down on their luck

635
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: and you know, living on the streets or experiencing you know,

636
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: over aggressive policing. All the things that he said he

637
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: would fix have just got worse. And yeah, it sucks.

638
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening to me why and about my

639
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: city everyone, And yeah, again, my apologies for traumatizing you

640
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: further with that video. It's fine. Next week. Next week,

641
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: we're well okay. So we would have been doing Chicago's

642
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: own version of this exact same person, which is Lloyd Lightfoot,

643
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: except to the surprise of absolutely zero people who live

644
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: in Chicago and everyone who doesn't live with Chicago, Lightfoot

645
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: didn't make it out of her fucking primary. So we're

646
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: Insteady Gore be doing Chicago's once in future while not

647
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: once potentially future mayor Paul Vallas, who absolutely sucks ass.

648
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that in another week when I

649
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: get a yell about Paul Vallas and inflict some truly

650
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: horrific bullshit on all of you. Very excited to get

651
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: my revenge. All right, well, I would look forward to

652
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: seeing Paul Vallas's hip hop video. Carriston's just sitting there

653
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: background of dying. This is this is, this is worse

654
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: than anything anything the Daily Wire can throw at me.

655
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: Should we just pivot to more come content? Garrisons, Okay,

656
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: this has been naken. Happen year. You can find us.

657
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: It happened here pot on Twitter, Instagram. But we're gonna

658
00:37:42,640 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: leave before one of us dies. Hello and welcome. It

659
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: could happen here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel

660
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: andrewism and today I'm joined by Miya and care Hello. Hello, Hello, Hello,

661
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about cities because I very

662
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: recently published a video on Sulapunk City Planet. I mean,

663
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're all going to hear this podcast,

664
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: but I did recently publish it, and you can check

665
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: that out of my channel. And I thought i'd share

666
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: a bit about a bit more about one particular historical

667
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: urban planet movement that I talk about in that video,

668
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: and that is Ebanez A. Howard's Garden Cities movement and

669
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: his book Garden Cities of Tomorrow. Are all familiar with either, No,

670
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Yeah, so Ebane's a Howard side note,

671
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't know who looks at a

672
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: child and names them Ebanez Howard. But he presented this

673
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: idea of the garden city concept in eighteen ninety eight

674
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: in a book called Tomorrow, A Peaceful Path through Real Reform.

675
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: Later he republished in nineteen or two under the name

676
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: of Garden Cities or Tomorrow, And take notes in the

677
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: title of the book of the use of reform and

678
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: peaceful path because it does highlight a noticeable lack within

679
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: Howard's vision that will discuss later. He wants to provide

680
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: access to the benefits of both town living and a

681
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: country living. As he describes, a town and country are

682
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: like magnets drawing people to them, you know. So, according

683
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: to him, town offers vibrant society and opportunity and transportation,

684
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: but it lacks the beauty of nature. It has pollution

685
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: and has crowded, it has disease. I mean this is

686
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: Victoria and era cities. He's talking about place what stink.

687
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: In contrast, country and country offers the space and the

688
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: beauty of nature and it's abundance, but it lacks society

689
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: and it can feel isolated and it really spread out.

690
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: So you wanted to create a hybrid of both concepts,

691
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: a third magnet of town country the combined the benefits

692
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: of both. I believe the secret Sorry I have to help.

693
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: I've jump in here and make a secret secret thing. Yes, yes,

694
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: thank you, yeah, country, but a secret third thing. We

695
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: fulfilled our we fulfilled our contractual obligations. One joke. All right,

696
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to side optical, Andrew, you take it from here. So, yeah,

697
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: a secret third thing. How I would believe that the

698
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: ideal living conditions for people of all economic backgrounds could

699
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: be created by establishing these town country cities with very

700
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: specific parameters run by strong government institutions. In Ebenezer Howard's context, again,

701
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: no offense to the Ebanese as the world, but jeez,

702
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't let go of those amplications. I

703
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: think I think we need to bring back the name Ebenezer.

704
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: Actually it's it's it's been too long since I've seen

705
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: an infant named Ebenezer, meaning I've never seen one. I

706
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: think I feel like we should see more. Just absolutely absurd.

707
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: All the timing names. What do you what do you

708
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: call the baby? Do you call them ebby or something like?

709
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: How do you call the baby Ebenezer? The baby's name?

710
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: Why would you you call it the baby's name? You

711
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: could call it Niza, you could eventually call it weezak

712
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: horrible nickname is awful? Oh yeah, that is okay. I'm

713
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: here on the amplications. I do never I never want

714
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: to hear that again. Yeah, I digress Howard's writing. I

715
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: just gonna call them Howard Howard's Rights in Journey Industry

716
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: Revolution was in response to well, the industrial Revolution, you know,

717
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: his response to the urban slums, the pollution, the lack

718
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: of access to the countryside, and much of his book

719
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: is dedicated the idea that cities as they existed in

720
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: his time were not sustainable in the long run. By

721
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: the middle of the nineteenth century, over half of Britain's

722
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: population lived in towns, and in nineteen hundred that proportion

723
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 1: had resuned over three quarters. But English towns and cities

724
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: presented social environmental problems of an unprecedented scale, and much

725
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: of Britain's history in that period could be connected with

726
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: the efforts to ameliorate the frightening conditions that a lot

727
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: of people lived in. When it comes to the design,

728
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: Howard wanted to create these highly structured, carefully laid out

729
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: communities to provide the best conditions possible for every kind

730
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: of person he saw. He wanted to put just like

731
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: large areas of land from aristocratic owners as a setting

732
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: up garden cities that would house up to thirty two

733
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: thousand people in individual homes on six thousand acres. And

734
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: that whole vision of individual homes is I think it

735
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,959
Speaker 1: belies a limitation the imagination there, but it's it's someone

736
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: understandable considering the historical conditions of the time where people

737
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: were living in these overcrowded slums and stuff. And the

738
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: dream was really to have a home of your own

739
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: that you didn't have to crowd out, it didn't be crowded,

740
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: you couldn't have to share with others. But anyway, I

741
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: think a sustainable city should trade the sprawl that single

742
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: family homes generate for more dense development. For the most part.

743
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: That is, but I digress once again. That's not all

744
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: his plan entailed. His garden cities would also include a

745
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: huge public garden with public buildings like a town hall,

746
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: lecture halls, theaters, and a hospital. An enormous arcade called

747
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: the Crystal Palace, not arcade as video game, where residents

748
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: would browse a covered market and enjoy a winter garden,

749
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: neighborhoods with cooperative kitchens and shared gardens, schools, playgrounds and churches, factories, warehouses, farms, workshops,

750
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: and access to a train line. In its ideal form,

751
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: the garden city would become a network of smaller garden

752
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: cities built around the larger central town. The idealized vision

753
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: of the garden city contained very specific utopian elements, like

754
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: small communities planned on a concentric pattern that woul accommodated housing, industry,

755
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: and agriculture, surrounded by green belts that would limit their growth. Now,

756
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: there's a diagram that he did up for his book

757
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: that has been popularized that represents like a sort of

758
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: a concentric circle design, but he didn't believe that that

759
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: necessarily had to be the shape of the garden city.

760
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: He still wanted the city to be adapted to local

761
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: layout somewhat, and these elements of garden city design were

762
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: all into dependent you know. He wanted strong community engagement,

763
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: he wanted community ownership of land. Although he wasn't a socialist,

764
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: mind you. He was a Georgist. Oh god, wait, that

765
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: explains it. That explains so much about all of his politics.

766
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: Of course he was a Georgeist. Yeah, quite an interesting

767
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: crew of characters. He wanted mixed ten years homes and

768
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: homes and types that were generally affordable, you know. To

769
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: go on another digression, I find Georgis Owe to be

770
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: such an interesting fixation of a philosophy. It's like, you know,

771
00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: looking all the problems in society, and you know what,

772
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: we need a land tax. That'll salt thing. I mean,

773
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: obviously that's something. All it is to the to the

774
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: that political philosophy, that economic approach. But I just found

775
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: I just find it every time I think about it.

776
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: I find it funny that it was just really like

777
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: the whole movement was basically this one like um tax proposal.

778
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 1: It's really that was the whole focus of it. Yeah,

779
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: it's really funny too because it has one of the

780
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: sort of largest like collapses of any ideology ever. Like

781
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: this is like it was just a very like very

782
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: it was. It was a big It was a big ideology.

783
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: You know. It literally helped to develop the the board

784
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: game Monopoly, you know what. It's like, it was a

785
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: huge thing. This is something I've actually been looking into

786
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: a lot of it. I've been trying to track down

787
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: some of the original like nineteen twenties copies of Monopoly

788
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: that's more based on the second game. Yes, I've been

789
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: trying to find the ones that were like pre pre

790
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: pre Parker Brothers UM, and I've I've I found I

791
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: found a few a few. I found a few like

792
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: two months ago, but before I could order them, it

793
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: was sold to somebody else on eBay. So I've been

794
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: trying to track down another another one in the U

795
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: in the past two months, and it's been a bit

796
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: more challenging, just because I'm kind of a Monopoly freak. Yeah,

797
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 1: it's um. It's really interesting to see how um that

798
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: game was developed and then changed over time, and how

799
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: hasbur was stepped in. Isn't Hasbro Poker Brothers without stepped in?

800
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: And did there do so I'm kind of basically rewrote

801
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: with the history of the board game entirely. Yeah, but anyway,

802
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,479
Speaker 1: elements to the garden city strong community engagement, communitytionship with land,

803
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: mixed tenure homes, homes in type so generally affordable, a

804
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: wide range of local jobs with easy commuting distances of homes,

805
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: well designed homes with gardens combining the best of town

806
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: and country, and green infrastructure that enhances a natural environment

807
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: with strong cultural, recreational and shopping facilities in addition to

808
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: integrated and accessible transportation. It's not all sunshine and roses, though.

809
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: I mean you could look at the sort of the

810
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: cream washing elements of the garden city design, and even

811
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: in the time they were criticized. I mean, they were

812
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: praised for being an alternative to the overcrowed industrial cities,

813
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: but they were also criticized for damage in the economy,

814
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: being destructive to the beauty of nature, and being in convenient.

815
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: You know, they weren't able to be Furthermore, because they

816
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: had this sort of top down design philosophy, they weren't

817
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: able to truly reflect the natural and organic developments of

818
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: a town or a country, you know, so secretly thing

819
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: couldn't do either other things that the original two stuff

820
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: could do. And then of course you have the mustached

821
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: man himself, Marie book Chin, stepping in in the limits

822
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: of the city to evaceorate the idea of the garden City.

823
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: He talks about how howards scheme was basically a system

824
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: of benevolent capitalism that presumed to avoid the extremes of

825
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: communism and individualism, and as a result, his entire book

826
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: was quote permeated by an underlying assumption. So typically British

827
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: that are compromised going to be struck between an intrinsically

828
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: irrational material reality and a moral ideology of high minded

829
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: conciliation microsh Yeah, I feel like the most brutal part

830
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: of that is just the typically British like, yeah, I

831
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: mean anything learning. Look at really the plan that Howard had,

832
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, the offices and industrial factories and shopping centers

833
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: that he intended to provide the Garden city with. Those

834
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: spaces are battlegrounds of conflicting social interests. You know, there's

835
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: alienated labor, their income differences, their disparities of work, time

836
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: and free time. All that conflict is not addressed just

837
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: because you make a pretty city. You know, there's no

838
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: resolution to the problems created under a capitalist factory office

839
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: or shopping center to just because you have a nice

840
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: transit system and a green belt. I feel like some

841
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: of some of these same problems crop up on some

842
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: of the solar punk stuff online as well. I mean

843
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: we've an attacked him definitely greenwashing throughout the solar punk

844
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: aesthetic and stuff. But yeah, I mean it is it

845
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: is an interesting, an interesting, interesting aspect that keeps propping up,

846
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: and it's just intriguing that it like dates back over

847
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, like this same exact thing. Yeah, exactly,

848
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: and funny enough, you know, his garden cities. We even

849
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: fallen short of utopias that were thought of before his time,

850
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm not even just utopias, but also

851
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: actual historical political experiments that you know, try to address

852
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: various social problems, you know, like unlike the Greek polis,

853
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 1: which had some basis of face to face democracy, Howard

854
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: just had a central council and a department structure based

855
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: on elections, Unlike in Thomas More's utopia, there's no proposal

856
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: for rotating agricultural and industrial work. Unlike the Paris Commune

857
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: of eighteen seventy one, which was established long before Howard

858
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: wrote his book, he had no sort of incorporation of

859
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: that sort of political experimentation in the garden city development.

860
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 1: The criticism really is how superficial a lot of Howards

861
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: ideas are, right, Like, there's just a lack of social

862
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: analysis analysis in fear of just design. Yeah, Georgism, Like

863
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: sure it would probably be like better than what we

864
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: have now. Well yeah, but but it by no means

865
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 1: like fixes all of the systemic issue. It's like Amsterdam, right,

866
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: I would rather have capitalism while riding a bike. But

867
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: Bookchin also talks about how these communities do not encompass

868
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: the full range of possibilities a human experience. Again quote

869
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: because you know Bookchin is Loki a boss. Right, Neighborliness

870
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: is mistaken for organic social intercourse and mutual aid. Well

871
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: manicured parks for the harmonization of humanity with nature, the

872
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: proximity of workplaces for the development of a new meaning

873
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: for work and its integration with play. An eclectic mix

874
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: of ranch houses, slab like apartments, and bachelor type flats

875
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: for spontaneous architectural variety, shopping, marked plazas in a vast

876
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: expanse of lawn for the agora, lecture halls for cultural centers,

877
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: hobby classes for vocational variety, benevolent trusts, so municipal councils

878
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: for self administration. One can add endlessly to this list

879
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: of misplays. Criteria for community that save to off your

880
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: skate rather than clarify the high attainment of the urban tradition. Indeed,

881
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: the appearance of community serves the ideological function of concealing

882
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: the incompleteness of an intimate and shared social life. Again, boom,

883
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, and people are brought together. You know, they

884
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: have all these conveniences in these pleasant trees, but they're

885
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: still culturally impoverished. They're still atomized, they still deal this

886
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: stark reality of capitalism in the spaces that they're they're

887
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: gonna inevitably spend most of their day at work. Like

888
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: it's nice that the city is well designed, but how

889
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: much of it are you going to get to see

890
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: if you still have to go to work for eight

891
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: hours plus a day. I mean, if there anything at

892
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: least you know, the commune will probably be shorter, but

893
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: that's about it. And that's if you get a job

894
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: in the city itself. This is interesting because in some ways,

895
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: the invention of the suburb in the in the years

896
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: after this kind of tried to solve for this issue

897
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: while also just doing it in an incredibly racist way.

898
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: Like you can you can you can see the invention

899
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: of the suburb of trying to create these little nestled

900
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: communities but also getting away from the the the urban center,

901
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: which was seen as this like scary place full of

902
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: people who were non white. So you have like this

903
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: white flight thing that developed this notion of the suburbs,

904
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: which in some ways kind of does this, but in

905
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: a in a much worse way. Actually, it makes it

906
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: makes the idea of the garden city look like a

907
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: much better alternative to what the suburbs did. And it's

908
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: it's just interesting that even the version of this that

909
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: got implemented was just done in a way that it's

910
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: so much more dystopian and depressing. Yeah, I mean, and

911
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 1: Booked Chin addresses that that comparison to the suburbs as well. Right.

912
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: He says, in the best of cases, the new towns

913
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 1: differ from suburbs, primarily because job commuting is short and

914
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: most services can be supplied within the community itself. In

915
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: the worst of cases, they are essentially bedroom suburbs of

916
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: the metropolis and add enormously to its congestion during working hours.

917
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't believe book beat me to the

918
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: punch on this one. I'm devastated. This is the first

919
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: time booktions ever has has ever has ever beaten me.

920
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: This is this is this is really terrible. So but

921
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: despite some of these flaws and criticisms, how it was

922
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: passionate about his idea, all right, I mean he published

923
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: the books. He also organized like he's actually he's not

924
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: sitting on Twitter, right, He's actually doing something about his ideas.

925
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: So he organized this Garden City Association in eighteen ninety

926
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: nine in England to promote the ideas of social justice,

927
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: economic efficiency, beautification, health and well being in the context

928
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: of City Planet. That Garden City Association later became the

929
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: Town and Country Planet Association, which still exists to this day.

930
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: Women played a very active role and continue to play

931
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: very active role in the organization. I mean, as Howard

932
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: says himself in his book, Women's Influences Too often ignored

933
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: here that ladies this guy's are feminist. But when the

934
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: garden city is built as a chokey will be woman's share.

935
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: And the work we found to have been a large one.

936
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: Whomen are among our most active missionaries. And so he's

937
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: doing some Abdullah now that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's

938
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: liberating life, you know. But yeah, the TCP in the

939
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: Town Country Planet Association has continued to campaign for a

940
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: new generation of garden city is based on modern modern

941
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: Godden City principles. They will cross sector and government influence

942
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: policy and legislation. There is awareness through guidance and training.

943
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: They promote affordable homes and inclusive, healthy and climate resilient places,

944
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: and they try to create texta world barriers, opportunities and

945
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: practical solutions necessary to make new garden cities a reality.

946
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: They also are genuinely interested in empowering people to have

947
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: a real influence over decisions about the environments and to

948
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: secure social justice within in between communities, or at least

949
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: that is what their website says. Outside of the TCPA,

950
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: the idea of godden city definitely sort of rooted itself

951
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: and urban planning and the urban planning tradition and it

952
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: did sort of feed into this rise of green spaces

953
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: within urban landscapes that we now find around the world.

954
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 1: The concept of the garden city is definitely still revisited today,

955
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: but it's considerably different from the original idea. It's also

956
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: taken the garden city as an inspiration, as an esthetic

957
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: inspiration to create greater integration between urban areas and green spaces.

958
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: In his time though, going back to the late nineteenth

959
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: and early twentieth century, Howard was a successful fundraise again

960
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: he was trying to get things going. In the first

961
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: years of the twentieth century. He built two garden cities,

962
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: Letchworth Garden City and Welwyn Garden City, both in Hertfordshire, England,

963
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: and both still exist today. Letchworth was an originally quite successful.

964
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: It was first you know, an ancient parish from like

965
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: the left hanth century and remained a small rural village

966
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: and so the start of twentieth century when the land

967
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: was purchased by a company called First Garden City Limited,

968
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: which was founded by Howard and supporters, and they went

969
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: on to establish the United Kingdom's first roundabout the Solar

970
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: Shot Circus. A lot of urban like park land and

971
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: open spaces, including a green space named after Howard called

972
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: Howard Park. But after Howard's passing, the first Garden City

973
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: Limited was sort of taken over in nineteen sixty and

974
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: the company so it changed how the town was managed.

975
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: The residents of the local council kind of lost, some

976
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: say the original Garden City ideals were reduced, and the

977
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: corporation eventually became for the first the company created a

978
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: corporation transferred ownership to the corporation which is now called

979
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: the lech Withth Goden City Cooperation, and then that cooperation

980
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: was replaced by a charter will body in the nineteen

981
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: nineties called the lech Withth god Cy Heritage Foundation, which

982
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: continues to own and manage the estate to this day.

983
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: Letchworth was a sort of an interesting experiment. The people

984
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: who were founded, who helped to found that town, were

985
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 1: very much otherworldly as some people would describe them. They

986
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: for example, they had some people describe them as health freaks.

987
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: They actually voted on a band to set against the

988
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: selling of alcohol, a ban on the selling of alcohol

989
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: in public premises. Oh boy, so which is I mean

990
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: for a British village? Right? In the early nineteen hundreds

991
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: to vote against having a pub. Unheard of, right, they

992
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: eventually create a pub. That pub didn't serve any alcohol.

993
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: Bumber bumber, hate to see it. Yeah, but lat truth

994
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: was still like a real pioneer, you know. It's approached

995
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: to blend in. Town country was used in the Australian

996
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: capital Canberra, in hell Rao, in Germany, in Tapanila and Finland,

997
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: and in Messa parks in that field, and of course

998
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: in the other Garden City well win how I had

999
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: arranged for that land to be purchased by a company

1000
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: called Second Gardain City Limited, real creative there. And first

1001
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: they were gonna call them the City Digs. Well, but

1002
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: a couple days later they changed their mind, probably because

1003
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: they realized as a dumb name. And then I wasn't

1004
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: gonna say anything, but yeah, that's not that's not a

1005
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: great name. Yeah. And so the town is laid out

1006
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: along these tree line boulevards. It's sort of a new

1007
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: George and town center. Um. There's a lot of ass

1008
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: out of parks, as to be expected. And the planners

1009
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: had intended to create the Guarden City to have like

1010
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: one shop called well Wind Stores, which is basically a

1011
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: monopoly that all the residents were expected to shop at. Lastly,

1012
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: I think I want to bring up one final inspiration.

1013
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: I was about to one on whether I would include

1014
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: this one or not, but I said, you know what,

1015
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: I might be entertaining and I might want to talk

1016
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: about it further in the future. A certain character by

1017
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: the name of Walt Disney. Oh no, this is Epcot.

1018
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: This is this is this is the experiments or prototypical

1019
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: city of tomorrow. Yes, this is the Florida Project. Oh no,

1020
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: Disney's Epcot was designed in concentric circles with radius. This

1021
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: is this is the worst job scare. Oh, but it

1022
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: should be noted, or rather it should be expected that,

1023
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: unlike Howard, mister Disney envisioned having a lot of personal

1024
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: control over the day to day management of life in

1025
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: his city. So really, Epcott was only loosely inspired by

1026
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: Howard's idea of combining the populace with industry. Um. This

1027
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: city would have had a hotel at the center with

1028
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,479
Speaker 1: more than thirty stories and a convention center. There would

1029
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: be an internationally themed town center. Um. There would be

1030
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: a mega mole. There would be themed restaurants, shops, and attractions.

1031
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: There would be a monorail, Yeah he was. He was

1032
01:04:51,880 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: a car free community advocate of Disney. Yeah. Like, his

1033
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: plan was that nobody would drive in Epcot. Delivery trucks

1034
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: and other autobiles and other automobiles that needed to enter

1035
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: the city were to be kept underground. So it's kind

1036
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: of like a fusion of Ebone's ah what an elon

1037
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: musk that sucks? That sucks. Yeah. Also, this city would

1038
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: be climb a controlled with a glass roof. Yes, I mean,

1039
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: And it's funny because like he couldn't even do this properly,

1040
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: Like he couldn't even build this instead instead of got

1041
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: turned into like a like a like a bare skeleton

1042
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: of what his original plan was because Epcot will failed

1043
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 1: in so in so many ways, the reason being that

1044
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: he ended up dying right Yeah. Yes, like even on

1045
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: his deathbed he was still sketching up designs for Epcot,

1046
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: so he never really got to implement it. Pro life

1047
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: Dictator dies anyways. Yeah. Actually, like the actual like living

1048
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: communities in in Disney World Florida are are so different

1049
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: and in many ways they're they're just like another suburb um,

1050
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: except you're in a suburb owned by Disney. Yeah, yeah,

1051
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: and I mean it's gonna be a peek into what

1052
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: life would have been like on the Epcot. Right. Your

1053
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: home would have been pre fabricated and modular. Certain materials

1054
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: and technologies could be tested as soon as they were beable.

1055
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: By the way, why they have nothing against free fab homes,

1056
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: I think they could be very useful. Um, But Disney's

1057
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: idea was basically, your home is pre fab so that

1058
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: any time he wanted to install an update on it,

1059
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: he could. It's great, you know, like the entire city

1060
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: was basically like a guinea pig for any technologies he

1061
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: came up with. Um, And so he wants to really

1062
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: retain absolute control of the city, like they wouldn't even

1063
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: own anything. Disney alone would own the land so that

1064
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: he and his success, says, can make updates and changes

1065
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: without ever being snowed down by this pesky thing called

1066
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: citizens votes and rights and all that. It's funny because

1067
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: this is actually now under attack by Ron de Santis

1068
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: in Florida. The sovereignty of Disney may like change a lot,

1069
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,919
Speaker 1: and I think already stripped it. Yes, But but but how

1070
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: this plays out in actuality as yet to be determined.

1071
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: But it is funny that this is actually like this

1072
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: is a very very recent thing, Like it's just like

1073
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,959
Speaker 1: a week or so. But see what we can see

1074
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: here is one of the inevitable transitions as as as

1075
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: we saw in British colonial rule in India, which is

1076
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: that direct corporate rules always replaced by injurrect corporate rule

1077
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: via the state. Yeah for know which, Yeah, it's in

1078
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: some ways. We will probably learn that it was better

1079
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: to live under Disney than Ron de Santis. But that's

1080
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: not saying much. Next time he opens up a disun

1081
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: this wild No, no, it's just it's just it's literally

1082
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: just like eighteen gipmo exhibitions. Oh lord, I mean Descenter's

1083
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: world will just be the United States with descent potential election. True,

1084
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: sad but true. But let me tell you a bit

1085
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 1: more about EPCOT. Right, if you were eighteen or older,

1086
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: you have to have a job. Also, you don't get

1087
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: to retire. Nobody is allowed to retire. You only get

1088
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: to stop working if you either die or leave amazing

1089
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: one way out. Also, he and reason being, he believed

1090
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: this would prevent slums or ghettos from foreman in any

1091
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 1: part of his magical city because I mean, if everyone

1092
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: has a job, then nobody will be struggling to pay

1093
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: rent or eat. Right. Funnily enough, of course, a lot

1094
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: of Disney workers today can't afford to pay rental eat.

1095
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 1: But hey, the theoretically everybody in Epcot would have their

1096
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 1: basic needs met also, though in exchange for that, they

1097
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't have any privacy because Epcott was also supposed to

1098
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: be like a tourist attraction. You know, you look outside,

1099
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: you win new, and tourists are like looking inside, you

1100
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: win new. That was a thing that was Epcott, thankfuley

1101
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: doesn't it wasn't fully implemented. I mean, some people have

1102
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: said that Singapore is like a dystopian city state run

1103
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 1: by Disney. But we could talk about that another time.

1104
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: That's a basic rundown on garden Cities past, present and future.

1105
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,480
Speaker 1: The idea of it, I think was, you know, notable, admirable,

1106
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: good effort, but flawed um and because it lacked a

1107
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: strong ideological foundation, economic foundation, an analysis that took into

1108
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: account the contentions speak within society that uh, you know,

1109
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 1: manifests in the urban landscape. And I think it's a

1110
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: clear oneing that for solo punks and for any people

1111
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: who are interested in urban planet as a whole. That.

1112
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: You know, aesthetics is not everything, design is not everything.

1113
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: You know, they asked me some some meat to those, Um,

1114
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: let's say some meats underneath that flesh. It's a really

1115
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: weird analogy. But yeah, yeah, no, but like yeah, the

1116
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: principle of Okay, I'm just gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna

1117
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: abandon the Walter Benjamin thing I was gonna do there,

1118
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: but no, try it, keep keep going, keep Benjamin thing

1119
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: I have. I haven't. I haven't actually read any of

1120
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: his stuff in like five years. But one of Benjamin's

1121
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:55,839
Speaker 1: things was when politics is sort of displaced, you're converted

1122
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 1: into aesthetic, it becomes fascism. So don't do that. In fact,

1123
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 1: have actual politics and not simply reduce your politics to

1124
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: an esthetic or to aesthetics, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, true, true.

1125
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,759
Speaker 1: All right, Well that's it for me. You can follow

1126
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: me on YouTube dot com slash Andrewism, on Twitter at

1127
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: and his School of Saying True, and on picture dot

1128
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: com slash Andrewism. You can find us at happen here,

1129
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: pod or cools on media, on Twitter and Instagram. Um,

1130
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: and you can find me tweeting about my desire to

1131
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: understand the mechanics of how Disney World operates at Hungry Boutie,

1132
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: mostly on Twitter. Yeah, welcome to Dick. It happened here

1133
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: the podcast that I am a Wong occasionally hijack talk

1134
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: about Asian American stuff, and you know, some some so

1135
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 1: some some pretty interesting Asian American stuff happened, which is that, Yeah,

1136
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: there was a sort of massive sweeping cultural victory question

1137
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: mark for the Asian American community TM when everything ever

1138
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: we're all at once did. Okay, I'm getting conflicting sources

1139
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,839
Speaker 1: about exactly the record that I said at the Oscars,

1140
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: but it won seven Oscars, did very well. Everyone is

1141
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: very happy. Um. Yeah, So I decided that I was

1142
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: going to use this to talk about some other stuff

1143
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: that is related to it, and with me to talk

1144
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: about many things, including sort of the family in patriarchy

1145
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: and Asian American culture and media. Is Tiffany Yang, a

1146
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: filmmaker from New York. Tiffany Welcome to the show. Hi,

1147
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on, Thanks thanks for being on. Um.

1148
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:59,520
Speaker 1: So we were for trying to figure out how precisely

1149
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: we want to sort of start this because you know,

1150
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sort of angles you can take.

1151
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: I think that the thing that I want to start

1152
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: with is well, like a okay, everything, every All it

1153
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 1: wants is a very good movie in a lot of ways.

1154
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: And I think it's sort of it's kind of the

1155
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: apotheosis of a structure of Asian American media that I've

1156
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 1: I've talked about before on this show. Um that I'm

1157
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna run through a brief explanation of what

1158
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: this is. So something that I, yeah, I've talked about

1159
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: a bit before that that I think about a lot

1160
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: is the way in which Asian American media has been

1161
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:47,719
Speaker 1: It has a basically a structural form. It has there's

1162
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: a very specific story or set of story structures into

1163
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 1: which anything you're trying to tell has to be fit

1164
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: and and that that series of things is okay. So

1165
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: you have a small business, you have you have a

1166
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: bunch of immigrants that come to the US or that

1167
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: they are well usually they're already in the US and

1168
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: they're trying to run a small business and they're having

1169
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: these issues sort of integrating into into sort of like

1170
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,799
Speaker 1: a wide American society, and there's some kind of conflict

1171
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: in the family, and the TV show or the movie

1172
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: is about like resolving this sort of conflict. Um. Yeah,

1173
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 1: And I think Everything Ever All at Once is like

1174
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: the best version of this that we've ever gotten in

1175
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But you know, and something I've

1176
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: talked about in a certain New Year's episode is that

1177
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: there's something about I guess Asian American like the way

1178
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: our sort of political culture works that makes it so

1179
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: that this is the only story that we tell. And

1180
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: you know, I mean you can look at a lot

1181
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: of the sort of like, sorry, I've been rambling for

1182
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 1: a lot, but I want to get this out of

1183
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 1: the way before you go further. But you know, like

1184
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: there there's a lot of movies that are like it's

1185
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: like you know, shows like Fresh off the Boat, like

1186
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: and Fist is also sort of like almost literally this, right, um,

1187
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: Like Turning Red is sort of like an emblematic example

1188
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: of sort of thing that is exactly this, Like Fresh

1189
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: off the Boat is basically this, right. I think part

1190
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 1: of the sort of there's a kind of ideological shell

1191
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: game happening here that's about the family. Everything Ever, All

1192
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: at Once has a lot of similarities. The Crazy Rich

1193
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,839
Speaker 1: Asians in ways that are kind of not immediately apparent.

1194
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: I have finally reached the point TM, but which is

1195
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 1: that both everything everywhere all at once in Crazy Rich

1196
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 1: Asians ends in exactly the same way, right, which is

1197
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: the the like the the sort of family tension that

1198
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: has had been sort of building up and playing out

1199
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: throughout the entire movie, like is resolved and everyone sort

1200
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: of goes back to being a family. And this is

1201
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: interesting specifically for Crazy Rich Asians because in the original,

1202
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: like in the book version of this story, the family shatters.

1203
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,879
Speaker 1: The plot of that movie is this this Asian American

1204
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: girl is dating like this guy who's from Singapore who

1205
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 1: has not told her that he's from like an unbelievably rich,

1206
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 1: like Singaporean family, and the story is about him going

1207
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: about them going to Singapore and realizing that this guy

1208
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 1: is unbelievably rich and that his family is just assholes

1209
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: who suck And in the book, like the family like

1210
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: mistreats both of them really badly, and so they just

1211
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: leave and they book it and they cut they cut

1212
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: off the rich family. But in the movie they some

1213
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 1: weird thing happens where like the the main character plays

1214
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: Ma Jung with the guy's mom and like a miracle

1215
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: occurs in the family works out and everything everyone wants.

1216
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: How's a very similar sort of thing where like the

1217
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: way this movie ends, and I would just say this,

1218
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: like I do, I do like this movie a lot,

1219
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,560
Speaker 1: but the way that it ends is Evelyn, who is

1220
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: Joy's mom, walks up to her and says, you're fat,

1221
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,639
Speaker 1: and I don't like that. You gotta tattoo. But also

1222
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: the family is good and like we should work it out,

1223
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: and then they do, like a baricle occurs, and there's

1224
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: this sort of running ideology in this which is that

1225
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:16,639
Speaker 1: like the family is sort of sort of too big

1226
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: to fail, like you're you're not allowed to have a

1227
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: a movie that's about something that's not about the family,

1228
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: or be a movie where you know, like the end

1229
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: of it is the people walk away from their family

1230
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 1: because it's hurt them a lot, right. And I will

1231
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: also say that sort of Asian American cultural production that

1232
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,679
Speaker 1: doesn't center the family, it actually just doesn't get read

1233
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: as being Asian American, right, like I think, I um,

1234
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this, but like Being

1235
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: View has this beautiful documentary called Minding the Gap and

1236
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: it's about like his trauma and his like sort of

1237
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,680
Speaker 1: youth growing up in a broken home and hanging out

1238
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: with skateboarding friends, some of whom are like black, and

1239
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: that just never gets talked about as an Asian American film,

1240
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 1: even though it's made by an Asian American filmmaker, and

1241
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: his experience as like someone who actually migrated from China

1242
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: is such a big part of his story, Like, because

1243
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: it's not about the sort of family conflict and reconciliation,

1244
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: it actually doesn't get read as an Asian American film

1245
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, which to me is interesting.

1246
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just wanted to second your point that

1247
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 1: like in both of these films, everything everywhere, all at

1248
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 1: once and crazy rich Asians, like nothing actually changes. You know,

1249
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 1: there's the reconciliation within the family, but nothing about the

1250
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: family structure changes. Like I think Evelyn her the sort

1251
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: of like conciliatory gesture she gives is like, oh, I'm

1252
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: your mom, and I would always choose to be with

1253
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 1: you in any universe. I forget, like the exact praising

1254
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I yea, it's something like that.

1255
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I would still want to be

1256
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: with you because I'm your mom. And it's like this

1257
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: very um the families is its own explanation. Yeah, and

1258
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: I think it points to sort of this is the

1259
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: movie that I think hit the exact limit of this

1260
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 1: kind of of this kind of sort of Asian family

1261
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,680
Speaker 1: politics because in it in in it's in in the

1262
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: sort of like moment where it needs to justify itself,

1263
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: it can't. It doesn't have anything. The moment's it's sort

1264
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: of it's it's it's it's it's empty of an actual

1265
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,440
Speaker 1: like it's it's empty of any sort of like ideological

1266
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 1: message about why this should be redemptive, right, like just

1267
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, and and I think this is something that

1268
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 1: like we don't think about enough, which is that like

1269
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: like okay, if if if your mother hurts you like

1270
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot, right, like them being your mother is not

1271
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: a redemptive thing. I mean, this is something I've been

1272
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: thinking about a lot in the context of sort of transness,

1273
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: and you know, and in the ways that like trans

1274
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 1: people like i mean literally get killed by their families,

1275
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: in the ways that they get you know, kicked out

1276
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 1: from their families, and the ways that sort of this

1277
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: this this sort of self justification of it's good because

1278
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: it is right that like the relationship. Yeah, this is

1279
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:37,680
Speaker 1: sort of what you were saying, right, is like it

1280
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 1: justifies itself by just like, well, I am your mother.

1281
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: It's like, well that's not an argument, right, yeah, right,

1282
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 1: and it's not enough. Like I think Joyce spunds the

1283
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: whole film like fighting to be seen by her mom,

1284
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: and in the end, her mom doesn't really give any

1285
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: reason why she loves Joy, Like there's nothing like specific

1286
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: to Joy herself as a person. It's just like you're

1287
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: my daughter, I'm your mother. Of course I love you. Um.

1288
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: And you know, like why should that be something a

1289
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 1: queer child settles for, like just this very basic baseline

1290
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: of acceptance rather than anything that like actually celebrates who

1291
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: they are as an individual. Yeah, and that's something that

1292
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: I also wanted to talk about with this is like

1293
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: and this this is not just like the specific thing.

1294
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking a lot about the specific movie

1295
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 1: because this is like the most recent one that's come out,

1296
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:39,720
Speaker 1: and and we're not sort of saying this to like

1297
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 1: like there is a lot of like good stuff in

1298
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: this movie, Like this is the movie like like Joy

1299
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: is probably the character who is like closest to me

1300
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:52,880
Speaker 1: who I have ever seen in anything at any point, right,

1301
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: and like there was something, you know, sort of incredibly emotional,

1302
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 1: like I cried a lodger in this movie that was

1303
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: like incredibly emotional about it, you know, like seeing yourself

1304
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: in it, Like yeah, yeah. But there's something about the

1305
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: way that Asian Americans, like especially sort of like cysaid

1306
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:12,560
Speaker 1: Asian Americans, think about queerness that that I think is

1307
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,759
Speaker 1: is you see in this movie, which is that. Okay,

1308
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: so this movie has two queer relationships in it, right

1309
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: unless you're going to count like the guy in the Raccoon,

1310
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: which it's funny, but I don't know about that one.

1311
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: But right, but but you know, the actual like the

1312
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: actual two sort of like queer relationships are between Joy

1313
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:39,759
Speaker 1: and her girlfriends and then between Evelyn and the tax lady.

1314
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 1: And there's two things that are interesting about that. One

1315
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: is that both of the both of the characters they're

1316
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 1: in relationships with are white and very and this this

1317
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: is a visit like something that's very very specifically like

1318
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 1: pointed out about Joy's girlfriends, and you know, you know

1319
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 1: that's the joke is like, well, she's half Mexican, but

1320
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 1: She's played throughout the entire hier thing as like an

1321
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:05,559
Speaker 1: outsider who like doesn't understand what's happening in this sort

1322
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: of scenes, like doesn't understand the family dynamic, doesn't doesn't

1323
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: understand his knees and you know, and you see this

1324
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 1: again with Okay, so who who have like you know,

1325
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: they're able to imagine a world in which, like Evelyn,

1326
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 1: the main character who has like just been homophobic this

1327
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: entire movie, is in a queer relationship and like, yeah,

1328
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 1: like I good for her. But if you look at

1329
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 1: who it's with, right, it's it's the character in the

1330
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: movie who is this tax lady who her thing is

1331
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 1: that she is like like she she she she is

1332
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:40,600
Speaker 1: like the human representation of the sort of white supremacists,

1333
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:44,719
Speaker 1: like capitalist bureaucracy that is, you know, attacking this family

1334
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 1: and is sort of like driving these people into the ground.

1335
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: And then she's sort of redeemed by by like love

1336
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: and queerness. But there's this way that queerness gets positioned,

1337
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: this outside of asianness, by the way that like the

1338
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: by the way that the only possible crew relationship that

1339
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 1: they can imagine is with a white person, as you know,

1340
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: as someone who's explicitly marked as an outsider, right, Yeah,

1341
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. Like queerness, It

1342
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 1: queerness is like attached to these anxieties over assimilation. Yeah,

1343
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 1: from the perspective of like the older generation like evaln

1344
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: and Gong Gong is like the fear of them being

1345
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: assimilated too much into this Western culture um, which is

1346
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 1: just a very it's it's very strange to me that

1347
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 1: this is the thing that keeps coming up in like

1348
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Asian American narratives and discourses because obviously like Asian like

1349
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: Asian queer cinema in Asia is like such a powerful

1350
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: cultural force, and the film makes all these one car

1351
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: why references, and I feel like one car Hi has

1352
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:59,599
Speaker 1: made like one of the greatest works the cru cinema

1353
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: Happy Together um of like recent decades. And so it's

1354
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 1: just it's so strange, um how Creus is being positioned

1355
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 1: as like an external threat. And I mean, like you know,

1356
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: you you could you could take a sort of like

1357
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 1: like the if you if you want to do the

1358
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 1: lib analysis of this, like China has had queer rulers

1359
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 1: like there has there has the West produced one, like

1360
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 1: maybe I possibly at some point maybe but like, you know,

1361
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like it's ideologically frustrating, right, like

1362
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: like you know, you can fall back on the like

1363
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: we know that, like we have records of where people

1364
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 1: in China for like five thousand fucking years, right, Like

1365
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: it's you know, but like I think, I think what's

1366
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: really interesting about this is that this is something that's

1367
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: seen as so natural that people writing like even like

1368
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: like Asian American like writers writing about the film don't

1369
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: even notice it, like they just they just sort of

1370
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: passively reproduce it. Yeah, And I don't know, I think

1371
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: it's like I mean, it's deeply frustrating, like being an

1372
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: Asian queer person, because this is something that like, you know,

1373
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 1: the the kinds of right wing nationalism that like are

1374
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 1: like they you know, like there's a different kinds of

1375
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:23,559
Speaker 1: sort of Chinese nationalism, right that will make that will

1376
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 1: make this like explicitly make the same argument that like

1377
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,599
Speaker 1: gay people are like a like a sort of like

1378
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess they would have they would have

1379
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: said it was borgewab, but now it's a sort of

1380
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: like decadent Western like imposition onto the like onto the

1381
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: world of Asia. But it's like like no, but then,

1382
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: but then, but you know, you you get these like

1383
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 1: sort of like very well credentialed, like progressive like Asian

1384
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:51,480
Speaker 1: American writers who are just either implicitly or almost explicitly

1385
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: making exactly the same argument. Yeah. Yes, And it's also

1386
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: what the American right wing thing right like they want

1387
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 1: to China as like if you know, China represents this

1388
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:09,799
Speaker 1: like sexual threat of having like the society where everyone

1389
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 1: is in their place, you know, like they imagine that

1390
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 1: these sort of like traditional gender roles are much more

1391
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: adhered to in China, which is why it's like we're

1392
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: on the decline, like China's rising. So it's yeah, it

1393
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:28,120
Speaker 1: is a very weird idea that nationalists on both sides

1394
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: are attached to. And it's disappointing that UM Asian Americans

1395
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: who think of themselves as progressive or even radical kind

1396
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: of reproduce this unthinkingly. Yeah. I mean one of my

1397
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 1: like recent black Pill moments was I don't know if

1398
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 1: people remember this, um, but there were there, There was

1399
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:49,839
Speaker 1: there was someone on Twitter who very kind of famously

1400
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: got like just like obliterated for saying that. I first,

1401
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: for saying that like people people shouldn't like canceled. There's

1402
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 1: a scription to the New York Times after they like

1403
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 1: did the whole thing. They did this whole bullshit that

1404
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,479
Speaker 1: a few people don't know what the sort of scandal was.

1405
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 1: So the a bunch of people who'd written for The

1406
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 1: New York Times sent them a very very bild letter

1407
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 1: saying like, hey, can you guys like fix some obvious

1408
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 1: like like not even saying fix, like can you report

1409
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 1: on trans issues better here? Or some like glaring short

1410
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 1: of mistakes that you made in New York Times through

1411
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: a hissy fit and got really mad at them and

1412
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: and you know this, this person's reaction was like, oh,

1413
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 1: well you can't you like don't cancel your subscription, like

1414
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 1: you have to support the news. And it was this

1415
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: like sort of moment and she she is one of

1416
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 1: the hosts of like one of the big progressive ation

1417
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: American podcasts, and it was like it was just you know,

1418
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: for me, it was just really sort of like black

1419
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 1: pilling moment of like, oh, this is like this is

1420
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: like what like like you know what like like three three,

1421
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 1: three seventy five a month. It is what these people

1422
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: think my life is worth. Like yeah, I don't know,

1423
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,879
Speaker 1: I think This kind of ideological stuff is very deeply

1424
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 1: tied into the way that Nasian Americans have been representing

1425
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: and thinking about. The family said of recent years, and

1426
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: but but, but but before before we go into that,

1427
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 1: do you know when the family is trying to sell

1428
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: you it is it is the products and services that

1429
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: supported this podcast. We have to take an ad break.

1430
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 1: We will be right, okay, Miah, just out of just

1431
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 1: out of curiosity, since I don't have the pleasure of

1432
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: listening to the ads while we're recording, Like what is

1433
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 1: going to play during that? I have no idea, Like,

1434
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: it could be anything. I don't know. It could be

1435
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 1: a gold ad, it could be the f While we

1436
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 1: haven't had the FBI tried to do it yet, we've

1437
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 1: had We've had we've had law unfortunate agencies. We've had

1438
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:50,760
Speaker 1: people selling gold Ronald Reagan coins. We've had so I

1439
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 1: don't think I've seen that, like since I was a child.

1440
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: I think they used to have like television commercials. Yeah,

1441
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 1: they do it on podcast now. Apparently a thing that

1442
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: I discovered when people sent me thelyp so who look

1443
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 1: like maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe they'll do a Thatcher

1444
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:12,759
Speaker 1: one and you two can own the the immortal words.

1445
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: There is no such thing as society. There is only

1446
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: individuals in the family. Yeah. Wow, well whatever it takes

1447
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: to keep the podcast running. Yeah, so all right, something

1448
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to sort of circle back to is, you know,

1449
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 1: I think one of the one of the sort of

1450
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 1: one of the things about this kind of Asian American media.

1451
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: You know, you have this this sort of ambivalence of like, like,

1452
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:54,600
Speaker 1: who what the sort of queer child is supposed to be?

1453
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: And you know, like I would say this like it

1454
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: is a pretty common experience if you are like a

1455
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 1: queer child of an Asian family that your family does

1456
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 1: fucked up shit. Do you like that's a thing? Um?

1457
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: And this is I wanted to ask you about something

1458
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 1: that you've been talking about that I'm sort of interested in,

1459
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: which is one of the things that I don't know

1460
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 1: when you trying to talk about this stuff. There's this

1461
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 1: way in which the way we sort of collectively think

1462
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 1: about when I say we this is like I guess

1463
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 1: like a kind of specific Asian American thing, the way

1464
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: we think about trauma gets involved very quickly. Yeah, And

1465
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:42,600
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you talk about that some more. Yeah,

1466
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:45,720
Speaker 1: I feel like there's this there are these sort of

1467
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: like unspoken discursive rules where when you talk about trauma

1468
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 1: within an Asian immigrant family, there are like, first of all,

1469
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,559
Speaker 1: it's always intergenerational trauma, right Like you can't talk about

1470
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 1: like a queer child experiencing trauma without then like getting

1471
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:10,560
Speaker 1: into the fact that, oh, like the parents have experienced

1472
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,920
Speaker 1: traumatic things like through the process of immigration or like war,

1473
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 1: the refugee experience, etcetera, etcetera. And so there's this sort

1474
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: of like economy of trauma where some members within the

1475
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 1: family get their trauma treated as more legitimate and others don't.

1476
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:31,720
Speaker 1: I think it's like really common to hear this refrain,

1477
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 1: which is like, oh, um, second generation immigrants are like

1478
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:41,280
Speaker 1: the you know, people like US Asian immigrant children who

1479
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: were born in the West can't possibly know that like

1480
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:49,800
Speaker 1: the real trauma that our parents or grandparents went through

1481
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: because they were the ones who like fled their countries

1482
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:58,200
Speaker 1: or experienced war firstand or grew up in poverty. But

1483
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 1: then it's also just like when we talk about eight

1484
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:12,599
Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma, um, there's this sort of like obfuscation of

1485
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 1: who is enacting that trauma within the family, right Like

1486
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 1: if the intergenerational trauma exists, like who is passing it down?

1487
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 1: And so I don't I don't know if I'm articulating

1488
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: myself well on this, but um, yeah, I guess the

1489
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 1: essential ideas that I think there's this like mechanism which

1490
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 1: kind of um immediately delegitimizes any talk of abuse or

1491
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 1: trauma from the perspective of um Asian youth or from

1492
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 1: the perspective of like the child in the family. Yeah,

1493
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 1: and I think I think that's a kind of I

1494
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: don't know, there's just really baffling, deep unwillingness in a

1495
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: lot of ways to think about And I think this

1496
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:05,720
Speaker 1: is a sort of broader like cultural thing too. But

1497
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,640
Speaker 1: there's just deep unwillingness to think about the family as

1498
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,639
Speaker 1: a side of violence and as a side of sort

1499
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,680
Speaker 1: of profound violence. It's like, you know, like it's the

1500
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:17,600
Speaker 1: place where the violence that shapes you comes from in

1501
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: a lot of cases. And I mean, like, I know

1502
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 1: a lot of people this has happened to you, has

1503
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 1: happened to me to some extent, And there's this real

1504
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 1: kind of you know, this is what this is what

1505
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I actually really liked about everything everywhere, all at once.

1506
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:35,160
Speaker 1: It's like it like goes into that in a lot

1507
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 1: of ways, Like it is a movie for about ninety

1508
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: nine tenths of the movie. It is a movie about

1509
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:45,719
Speaker 1: how like the people around like how how the people

1510
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 1: in your family can hurt you repeatedly, and about the

1511
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 1: sort of like the ways that they think about it,

1512
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,920
Speaker 1: the way but you know, there's there's but but but

1513
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 1: but but I think this is where this sort of

1514
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: perspective thing comes into it where like, yeah, we're I think,

1515
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: like we don't really have a language to sort of

1516
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff, and the way the film deals

1517
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,240
Speaker 1: with it is sort of like you know, is is

1518
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: this kind of like very specific kind of nihilism, which

1519
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 1: is like definitely a thing that you can fall into,

1520
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: right like you know, like that like that that is

1521
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 1: definitely a reaction to being traumatized. But it's seen as

1522
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: like illegitimate and world destroying I think in a lot

1523
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:33,600
Speaker 1: of ways because it causes you to sort of like

1524
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:35,800
Speaker 1: if if that's your experience of the family, like you're

1525
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 1: going to leave or you're going to or you're only

1526
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: going to stay in by force, and so you know,

1527
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 1: the movie sort of rejects it. But but you know

1528
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 1: there's this way that it's very difficult to talk about

1529
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 1: this stuff and about the sort of like long arc

1530
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: of how people have thought about the family before us. Right,

1531
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:56,599
Speaker 1: what's an example of what you mean by like how

1532
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: people have thought about the family before us? Well, I

1533
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,240
Speaker 1: think I think in the Chinese context in particular, there's

1534
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 1: a very there's like there's I mean, if you look

1535
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 1: at what was happening in in the sort of rat

1536
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: like in the in the sort of very radical periods

1537
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 1: in Chinese history in the last you know, if you

1538
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:17,599
Speaker 1: like last sort of hundred years, you look at sort

1539
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 1: of what's going on in nineteen twenty five, if you

1540
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 1: look at what happens immediately like after the Chinese Revolution,

1541
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 1: like there is a real period of like questioning, questioning

1542
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 1: patriarchal authority, of questioning like what is the family for?

1543
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 1: Like why why are we doing this? And you know,

1544
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:35,599
Speaker 1: I think I think the answers they came to were

1545
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:37,640
Speaker 1: ultimately unsatisfying, which is that like, well, we need the

1546
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 1: family around because like we we are, our economy does

1547
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:47,640
Speaker 1: not function without uncompensated labor. So the maoists sort of

1548
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:50,679
Speaker 1: like attempt to grapple with this fails. But I don't

1549
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:54,759
Speaker 1: like as as as as with many things that Maoism

1550
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: attempt to grappled with, I don't think they were wrong

1551
01:36:57,080 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: to look at it. I think their solutions were all terrible.

1552
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 1: But I think there's this kind of I mean, there's

1553
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 1: this reaction. There's there's a kind of older Asian queer reaction,

1554
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,479
Speaker 1: which I think is like kind of deeply suspicious of

1555
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:15,200
Speaker 1: the family, as you know, this thing that has an

1556
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:18,559
Speaker 1: enormous amount of potential to sort of inflict violence on

1557
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:20,920
Speaker 1: you and sort of de stabilize your life and cut

1558
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 1: you off from resources and information. I mean, I was

1559
01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 1: struck by someone else making this comment about how like

1560
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 1: in everything everywhere, all at once, you know, they can

1561
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 1: imagine like this sort of infinite um number of universes,

1562
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:44,559
Speaker 1: but in every single one, the family unit remains the same. Um.

1563
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 1: You know, like the social arrangement never changes across all

1564
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 1: of these different universes. Um. Yeah, I thought that was

1565
01:37:54,840 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 1: a really good point. Um. There's just like the sense

1566
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:02,400
Speaker 1: in which a lot of the recent Asian American culture

1567
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: can't imagine the family as like something that can be transformed.

1568
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 1: It just kind of takes it for granted as this

1569
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:15,120
Speaker 1: like static eternal structure which can't be challenged, and people,

1570
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,680
Speaker 1: if they find reconciliation or happiness, it needs to be

1571
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 1: somehow within that same arrangement. Yeah, And I think a

1572
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:33,559
Speaker 1: lot of that has to do with like the thing

1573
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,840
Speaker 1: that we've decided about elders collectively, which is another one

1574
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 1: of those things that like is like the legitimacy of

1575
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:47,600
Speaker 1: the authority of elders is something that in Chinese revolutionary

1576
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: history is something that's very much up for debate, and

1577
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 1: almost everyone who decided to like take up arms against

1578
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:57,000
Speaker 1: the state, like almost all of those people were like,

1579
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:01,880
Speaker 1: this is messed up. And then you know, I think,

1580
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: I think partially as a result of how badly sort

1581
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 1: of the Maoist project goes, and then also I think

1582
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 1: as as as a kind of like explicit part of

1583
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:20,720
Speaker 1: state policy, there's this way in which that kind of

1584
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:23,599
Speaker 1: authority gets reinscribed and any sort of questioning of it

1585
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:25,680
Speaker 1: gets gets looked at as like, oh or like a

1586
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 1: return to sort of like Maoist egalitarianism or whatever. Which

1587
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:33,719
Speaker 1: the thing that I see a lot in the ways

1588
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 1: that like not really Asian Americans, but like in the

1589
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:39,120
Speaker 1: in in in in, I don't know, you see this

1590
01:39:39,160 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 1: in Chinese discourse like a decent amount. I mean, you

1591
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: see this in kind of um messed up ways and

1592
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:51,520
Speaker 1: some of the Asian American discourse from people whose families

1593
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 1: never participated directly in the Maose project. You know, they

1594
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:59,559
Speaker 1: might have like a lot of people who immigrated here

1595
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 1: to the u US weren't like they were connected to

1596
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 1: the KMT. They were on the nationalist side. There are

1597
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: people who ideologically were never aligned with um any sort

1598
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: of socialist project, and you know, Bill Bill, Bill invoke

1599
01:40:17,439 --> 01:40:20,600
Speaker 1: things like well, you know, this is exactly what my

1600
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:25,599
Speaker 1: ancestors were fleeing from China. Yeah, and it's like, okay,

1601
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 1: like you guys, like I I have really bad news

1602
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 1: for you about like what the KMT's ideology was, and

1603
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:36,680
Speaker 1: like I feel like this is sort of these are

1604
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 1: like the egg monopoly people, right, Yeah, And but I

1605
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 1: think I think like this has two effects, right, which

1606
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:47,439
Speaker 1: is like, on the one hand, those people like that

1607
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: like specific kind of very weird Chinese anti communist is

1608
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 1: sort of incredibly privileged in in the way that like

1609
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:59,679
Speaker 1: that stuff's thought about. But then you know, like there

1610
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are in like from

1611
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:07,840
Speaker 1: like from China who are in the US, like specifically

1612
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:09,600
Speaker 1: because of the failure of this project. And this is

1613
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:12,000
Speaker 1: something else you talked about in the Atlanta episodes, but

1614
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:15,839
Speaker 1: like several of the people like who were killed in Atlanta,

1615
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:23,600
Speaker 1: like were there because like liberalization drove them to a

1616
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: point where like they you know where where they had

1617
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 1: to work to support their families, and you know, and

1618
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 1: and and the the other thing that sort of comes

1619
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: hand in hand with liberalization is that that and I

1620
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:43,360
Speaker 1: don't know, this is something that like people really don't

1621
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 1: want to think about, which is that you know, economic

1622
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: at somebody said political liberalization in China came hand in

1623
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:53,160
Speaker 1: hand with this massive and transport to the patriarchal project,

1624
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 1: which is the one shot policy just sort of slamming

1625
01:41:56,479 --> 01:41:58,960
Speaker 1: down like a hammer of being of the state, just

1626
01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 1: being like we're going to just directively like we are

1627
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 1: going to directly control your reproductive autonomy. We are going

1628
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 1: to you know, we are going to force we sterilize people.

1629
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 1: We are going to like would literally just limit the

1630
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: amount of kids you can have. We are going to

1631
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 1: make this sort of like giant, I don't know, like

1632
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:20,840
Speaker 1: this enormous state intervention into like social reproduction and the

1633
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 1: people who were the victims of that, Like you don't

1634
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:26,800
Speaker 1: really hear from them much. I mean, like what one

1635
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:30,360
Speaker 1: of the stories I'm still just haunted by is that

1636
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:32,800
Speaker 1: one of the people who died in Atlanta, like her

1637
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 1: family refused to bury her, like refused to take her

1638
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 1: remains to bury her because like their village was like no,

1639
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:42,160
Speaker 1: you you you never married, so you can't be like

1640
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:47,880
Speaker 1: buried in the village. And wow. Yeah, and so you know,

1641
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 1: like her like she had a funeral in the US

1642
01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:52,120
Speaker 1: that was attended by no one who knew her because

1643
01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 1: none of her friends could roll up because they get

1644
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 1: a rushed by the cops. And you know, there there

1645
01:42:56,439 --> 01:42:59,960
Speaker 1: were these like there were these kinds of like transnational

1646
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 1: linkages of like the violence of people's families that just

1647
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:09,439
Speaker 1: disappears from this sort of like narrative of like like

1648
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:16,240
Speaker 1: Asian Americans like is the family is this union basis relation? Right?

1649
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:20,880
Speaker 1: And on that note, did we also want to talk

1650
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 1: about how the sort of like focus on the small

1651
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: business slash family or the family as a small business

1652
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 1: obscures some of the class conflicts within the Asian American community,

1653
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:36,519
Speaker 1: Like yeah, these very massage workers you're talking about, I

1654
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:39,680
Speaker 1: remember in the wake of that Atlanta shooting, a lot

1655
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:44,719
Speaker 1: of people started they kind of use the massage workers

1656
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 1: as like an emblem of the Asian American community more

1657
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: broadly one in fact, like a lot of the sort

1658
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 1: of like more professional class Asian Americans or like the

1659
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:02,599
Speaker 1: Asian Americans who get platforms in the media. Um, they

1660
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 1: aren't like, they aren't from the same class as like

1661
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 1: the massage workers are. Um, we heard from like a

1662
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 1: lot of small business owners, but those are those are

1663
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:17,840
Speaker 1: the same people who like own massage parlors and hire

1664
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:21,960
Speaker 1: these exploited workers, who like have undocumented status and who

1665
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:26,920
Speaker 1: can thus be like put into much more precarious positions

1666
01:44:26,960 --> 01:44:35,240
Speaker 1: than like you know, US citizens and so um, yeah,

1667
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 1: I did you want to talk a bit more about that. Yeah,

1668
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think the small business owners

1669
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: are it's a really sort of interesting and powerful character,

1670
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:50,639
Speaker 1: like especially in the US, because it's it's like it's

1671
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:52,800
Speaker 1: possible to be a small business owner to be really

1672
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:57,599
Speaker 1: poor but also not be propertyless. Yeah, and I think

1673
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 1: that like the like the specificically like the core of

1674
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 1: the American dream is to own property. And you know,

1675
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:07,680
Speaker 1: so here is this class you can point out as

1676
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,559
Speaker 1: like oh, well, we're really poor, but you don't actually

1677
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 1: you never have to look at labor relations at all, right,

1678
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:15,799
Speaker 1: and that that like frees you from having to actually

1679
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,599
Speaker 1: think about what capitalism is. And and it also lets

1680
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:23,640
Speaker 1: you it lets really like the actual sort of like

1681
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:27,840
Speaker 1: the real sort of Asian American ruling class, right, like

1682
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 1: the actual billionaires, right. And you know there are Asian

1683
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:32,800
Speaker 1: American billionaires. There's there's a good number of them. There's

1684
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 1: also just a bunch of just Asian billionaires. Because there

1685
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 1: is a there's just an Asian ruling class. It lets

1686
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:42,280
Speaker 1: those people, especially in the US, hide behind the image

1687
01:45:42,280 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 1: of the Citi small business owner, right, and they can

1688
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: you know, and they can use it the launder their

1689
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:50,200
Speaker 1: sort of reputation because like it's in the US, like

1690
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 1: being anti small business is like the hardest position you

1691
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:58,559
Speaker 1: can possibly take. It is like like it is you

1692
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:02,680
Speaker 1: you like, I don't I don't know if people remember this. Um,

1693
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:05,639
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, Vicky Osterwall, wrote this book called

1694
01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 1: in Defensive Looting. Oh yeah, yeah, great book. Everyone should

1695
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 1: read it. Like they were like sitting US senators were

1696
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:17,280
Speaker 1: like like yelling about the book, like like a huge

1697
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: swasp left left got like unbelievably mad about it. Like

1698
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 1: a lot of you will probably also get mad about it.

1699
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:24,760
Speaker 1: But like, like one of the things that always comes

1700
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:29,240
Speaker 1: up with with with looting is like, I you know,

1701
01:46:29,240 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: it's like, well, are you gonna loot small businesses? And

1702
01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 1: it's like, well, actually yeah, Like like in so far

1703
01:46:34,600 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 1: as people looting small businesses, a lot of times it's

1704
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: the people who work there and it sucks because working

1705
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:43,680
Speaker 1: for small businesses is fucking terrible and right, yeah, are

1706
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: people in the community where those like small businesses are

1707
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 1: and like our discriminatory towards Yeah, And Vicky makes this

1708
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: point about this, there's just kind of populism that gets

1709
01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 1: invoked where you know, one of the police statements about

1710
01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:02,439
Speaker 1: I think it was about ferguson Um was they're talking

1711
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 1: about like they burned down our Walmart and it's like, well,

1712
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,759
Speaker 1: what do you mean our Walmart? Like fucking owned the Walmart,

1713
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:10,720
Speaker 1: Like don't get shipped from it, Like everyone who works

1714
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: on the walmartt's fucked. Everyone has to buy it from

1715
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 1: the Walmart. But it's it's just really hollow like populism,

1716
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,880
Speaker 1: Like it's this thing that like you assemble a community

1717
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:22,760
Speaker 1: based around then around the corporation. And I think that's

1718
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 1: kind of what's been happening with Like I think it's

1719
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:27,639
Speaker 1: the reason why Asian American culture is like like this

1720
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: because it's it's this. It's like, you know, there's there's

1721
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:34,760
Speaker 1: this this very hollow like in a lot like like

1722
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:38,599
Speaker 1: multinational like populism has been assembled around like the figure

1723
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,479
Speaker 1: of the small business owner, but it's ultimately like it

1724
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:45,479
Speaker 1: doesn't really have ideas other than you should let us

1725
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:48,639
Speaker 1: like you should let us make money without being racist.

1726
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 1: And also the fact like the it has that idea,

1727
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:54,560
Speaker 1: and then it has the idea that the family is

1728
01:47:54,600 --> 01:48:04,519
Speaker 1: good because it is and that's kind of it. Yeah, yeah,

1729
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,240
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know why. I think there's there's

1730
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:11,639
Speaker 1: a lot about well, okay, I would say this, like

1731
01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:16,679
Speaker 1: the the the day people are okay with looting small

1732
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,680
Speaker 1: businesses is the day the US can actually fall, and

1733
01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:23,040
Speaker 1: any until before then, like it will it will survive

1734
01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,320
Speaker 1: because that's always the sort of last defense of capitalism

1735
01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 1: is like what about small businesses? And you will you

1736
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:31,200
Speaker 1: will get people who call themselves communists who will be

1737
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:33,360
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, actually these are fine. It's like

1738
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 1: I mmmm mmmmm, Okay, so I wanted to kind of

1739
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:44,040
Speaker 1: pivot back around a bit to talk about elders a

1740
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:46,360
Speaker 1: bit more because I feel like I kind of sidetracked

1741
01:48:46,439 --> 01:48:50,559
Speaker 1: us off of that, and I, yeah, I think there's this,

1742
01:48:50,840 --> 01:48:54,760
Speaker 1: really I don't know, there's been this kind of like

1743
01:48:54,840 --> 01:49:00,599
Speaker 1: rehabilitation of the elder in a way that like was

1744
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 1: something that was deeply questioned in periods where it was

1745
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:06,800
Speaker 1: kind of like it was more obvious and less and

1746
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:09,280
Speaker 1: more socially statable to sort of look at the power

1747
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:14,160
Speaker 1: these people have and how much it can suck. H Well, yeah,

1748
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:17,880
Speaker 1: I think I noticed this picking up during you know,

1749
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:21,760
Speaker 1: the sort of like first state of anti Asian attacks

1750
01:49:21,880 --> 01:49:26,599
Speaker 1: during COVID. I think that's when like a lot of

1751
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:31,320
Speaker 1: progressive Asians started invoking the figure of the elder, right,

1752
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:36,600
Speaker 1: like our elders are being attacked, Like an attack on

1753
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:39,280
Speaker 1: our elders is an attack on our community, Like that

1754
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 1: sort of thing um where the elder is kind of

1755
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,560
Speaker 1: like used as a sort of emblem of the innocence

1756
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 1: of the Asian American community or what do you like,

1757
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,719
Speaker 1: what work do you think the elder is doing there

1758
01:49:54,280 --> 01:49:57,640
Speaker 1: in this discourse? Like why does it have to be

1759
01:49:57,720 --> 01:49:59,599
Speaker 1: an elder? Like what if you were just saying Asian

1760
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:02,759
Speaker 1: people being attacked, or like what if it was Asian

1761
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:04,920
Speaker 1: youths being attacked? Like what why does it have to

1762
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,599
Speaker 1: be the Asian elder? Because I think we were talking

1763
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:11,120
Speaker 1: about this earlier. Empirically it's not exactly true, right, it

1764
01:50:11,240 --> 01:50:16,599
Speaker 1: wasn't mostly old people who are victims of these attacks. Yeah,

1765
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 1: And I mean I think this is one of the

1766
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:20,920
Speaker 1: areas where like the murky, like you know, it's really

1767
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:25,000
Speaker 1: really hard to get good data on cruise being attacked

1768
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:28,439
Speaker 1: because I mean, police reports are obviously incredibly unreliable, right,

1769
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:32,160
Speaker 1: and then you know, like they're self collected data, but

1770
01:50:32,200 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 1: the self collected data is not all encompassing it, you know,

1771
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 1: it's sort of skewed in its own ways. But yeah,

1772
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 1: I think I think there's this way in which, like,

1773
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:45,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I think there's almost as way

1774
01:50:45,880 --> 01:50:48,320
Speaker 1: in which elder is almost like they're also like like

1775
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 1: personally infantilized by it, where it's like the pick as

1776
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:56,280
Speaker 1: this sort of like like part of like they used

1777
01:50:56,280 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 1: as a sort of symbol of like people who can't

1778
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 1: defend themselves, which partially isn't true. Like there were actually

1779
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:05,559
Speaker 1: examples of like Asian elders like defending themselves. But but

1780
01:51:05,720 --> 01:51:08,680
Speaker 1: it does this kind of like and also like the

1781
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:13,800
Speaker 1: rates of gun purchase purchases one up with it. I mean,

1782
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:17,759
Speaker 1: I know, like just the ncdotally in the Chinese American community,

1783
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: I knew so many like like elderly Chinese people who

1784
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:23,720
Speaker 1: are like, I'm going to go out and buy a

1785
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:29,919
Speaker 1: gun though. Yeah, yeah, I think like the way that

1786
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,559
Speaker 1: that thing it was invoked has a lot of sort

1787
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:36,760
Speaker 1: of like I don't know, it was it was like

1788
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:42,120
Speaker 1: there was this way in which they like they became framed,

1789
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,840
Speaker 1: is like this is sort of like this is the

1790
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:47,680
Speaker 1: apotheosis of like everything that it is to like be

1791
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:51,200
Speaker 1: Asian American h and that like that like the fact

1792
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 1: that that was under attack was this sort of incredible crisis, right,

1793
01:51:56,680 --> 01:51:59,519
Speaker 1: And I think like I think there's like that as

1794
01:52:00,360 --> 01:52:02,519
Speaker 1: gears a lot about what was happening, which is that

1795
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:06,719
Speaker 1: like if there was one clear trend in the data,

1796
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:08,680
Speaker 1: it was that women were being attacked at like a

1797
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:13,080
Speaker 1: way higher rate than anyone else. And you know, and

1798
01:52:13,360 --> 01:52:16,400
Speaker 1: this has been a thing that has sort of continued,

1799
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:20,519
Speaker 1: which is like I don't know, like there's been more

1800
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 1: attacks in the last like few months, right, and it's

1801
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:25,599
Speaker 1: it's it's it's been a lot of like young women

1802
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:27,799
Speaker 1: getting like young Asian women getting pushed in front of trains,

1803
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:36,200
Speaker 1: and people have just really stopped caring, like yeah, to

1804
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:39,000
Speaker 1: the extent where like it's it's like literally a meme

1805
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:41,479
Speaker 1: that you can like watch the cycle of like the

1806
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:45,599
Speaker 1: stop API hate like signs coming up and down. Right.

1807
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think I think the elder

1808
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 1: part of it kind of like it obscured a lot

1809
01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:55,800
Speaker 1: of what was actually happening. Yeah. I feel like the

1810
01:52:55,880 --> 01:53:01,480
Speaker 1: last incident that really made a splash in the media was, um,

1811
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:06,320
Speaker 1: the murder of Christina Una is that urt I forget

1812
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 1: what her last name is, but um, Christina Una leave

1813
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 1: um getting murdered in Chinatown And this was already a

1814
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:25,960
Speaker 1: year ago. Um, And I haven't really heard anything since,

1815
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:30,320
Speaker 1: Like I see things in the local news. Um that

1816
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:34,840
Speaker 1: where I live in Queens recently had a couple of attacks,

1817
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:39,160
Speaker 1: um just a week ago, I think, but it didn't

1818
01:53:39,160 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 1: make the national news or anything. Yeah, And I think

1819
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:50,840
Speaker 1: the way that the kind of like hierarchy of victimhood

1820
01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 1: I guess affected that like has had I you know,

1821
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's the biggest like single reason why

1822
01:53:56,920 --> 01:53:59,840
Speaker 1: everyone has sort of stopped caring. But like I like

1823
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:02,080
Speaker 1: I I think the sort of stop api hate like

1824
01:54:03,720 --> 01:54:09,000
Speaker 1: that moment kind of only happened because there was this

1825
01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:12,559
Speaker 1: sort of backlash against like there's this backlash against Black

1826
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:14,960
Speaker 1: Lives Matter and against the insurrection, and people needed another

1827
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:19,599
Speaker 1: people needed a kind of like ideologically safe like thing,

1828
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:22,960
Speaker 1: like way of demonstrating like how good their politics were

1829
01:54:23,080 --> 01:54:27,760
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I think it definitely contributed to sort

1830
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:37,280
Speaker 1: of why like stuff has been abandoned. And I also

1831
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:39,920
Speaker 1: wanted to ask, do you see this, this thing, this

1832
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:44,440
Speaker 1: stixation on elders um is happening at the same time

1833
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:49,760
Speaker 1: that ancestors get invoked a lot in like Asian American literature,

1834
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 1: especially queer literature. Um, I'm thinking of authors like Ocean Wong,

1835
01:54:55,560 --> 01:55:00,280
Speaker 1: Like how did ancestors become such a thing? Yeah, really,

1836
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:03,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, I really don't understand how that happens.

1837
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 1: Like a lot of my ancestors fucking sucked. Like I

1838
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:10,280
Speaker 1: don't know, like like I don't know how to sort

1839
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 1: of like I don't know. I have this sort of

1840
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:24,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I have this sort of weird sense

1841
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 1: of the kind of politics at work here, which is

1842
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of kinds of politics that I

1843
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 1: think can work in for example, in indigenous contexts that

1844
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 1: are very very powerful, that don't really work in the

1845
01:55:40,160 --> 01:55:43,760
Speaker 1: Asian American context where like like our ancestors, Like if

1846
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:46,680
Speaker 1: you're a Chinese, right your ancestors did some fucked up shit,

1847
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,120
Speaker 1: Like your ancestors did a lot of jedicides, like you

1848
01:55:51,120 --> 01:55:52,960
Speaker 1: you like you know, And I think I think that's

1849
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:55,120
Speaker 1: something that's actually at the core of the kind of

1850
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 1: like right wing Chinese nationalism, which is that like right

1851
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:02,640
Speaker 1: when Chinese nationalism is basically about the anger that China

1852
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:04,879
Speaker 1: was like ceased to be able to be an empire

1853
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:08,640
Speaker 1: because like if you look at the sort of colonization process, right,

1854
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:14,960
Speaker 1: like the Qing are this very very expansionist like like

1855
01:56:15,040 --> 01:56:18,320
Speaker 1: sort of militarist imperial state, right like they're they're they're

1856
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 1: they're they're like they conquered, like they if they find

1857
01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:24,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of wars around Tibet, they conquered shing Jun

1858
01:56:24,320 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 1: and they do a genocide, They're like immediately they're pushing south.

1859
01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 1: They're pushing like they're they're basically pushing like in every

1860
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:35,680
Speaker 1: direction they could possibly push and then they kind of

1861
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:39,040
Speaker 1: like you know, they they hit like a pretty impressive

1862
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 1: territorial boundaries, and then their ability to do imperialism gets

1863
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:48,000
Speaker 1: kind of halted because suddenly there's other imperial powers like

1864
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 1: in the region, and you know, and the sort of

1865
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:51,560
Speaker 1: end of this is like they they lose all these

1866
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:54,120
Speaker 1: wars and you have the start of like you have

1867
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 1: the start of the Century of Humiliation and all of

1868
01:56:55,960 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 1: the sort of stuff that happens there. But it's like

1869
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:00,800
Speaker 1: the actual thing that they're like the actual thing that

1870
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:05,480
Speaker 1: the Century of Humiliation people are humiliated about. Well, I

1871
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:07,280
Speaker 1: mean the fact that it's called the Center of Humiliation

1872
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:09,240
Speaker 1: and not like I don't know, like the like the

1873
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 1: Century of Death or something, which for people who don't

1874
01:57:13,040 --> 01:57:16,640
Speaker 1: know what Century of Humiliation is. Um, So, I think

1875
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:18,840
Speaker 1: it's it's I think that the actuals I think it's

1876
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:20,840
Speaker 1: like eighteen forty nineteen forty. There's this is sort of

1877
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:25,520
Speaker 1: nationalist term around understanding this period in which China is undergoing,

1878
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:29,160
Speaker 1: like you know, it is genuinely like like people in

1879
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:33,800
Speaker 1: China are like suffering enormous imperial violence. Um Like, I

1880
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:37,720
Speaker 1: like unfathomable numbers people die in this period this is

1881
01:57:37,720 --> 01:57:39,560
Speaker 1: like the Opium but basically a period from the Opium

1882
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 1: Wars until you know, sort of through the various Japanese

1883
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:46,440
Speaker 1: conquests and then sort of ending essentially with the Revolution.

1884
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know, Like, I think it's interesting

1885
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 1: that it's it's understood in the in terms of national humiliation,

1886
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:56,200
Speaker 1: in terms of sort of like the loss of disability

1887
01:57:56,280 --> 01:58:01,720
Speaker 1: to do I mean to do imperialism, and instead of

1888
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:04,720
Speaker 1: in sort of terms of like the just unfathomable human

1889
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:10,160
Speaker 1: suffering that one on. And I think this all of

1890
01:58:10,200 --> 01:58:13,560
Speaker 1: this sort of comes back to this weird kind of

1891
01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:19,000
Speaker 1: intensification of nationalism kind of among everyone in the last

1892
01:58:19,080 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 1: like especially since twenty twenty. You know, I mean there's

1893
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:24,920
Speaker 1: been there's been like a kind of like explicit like

1894
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:27,000
Speaker 1: Chinese nationalist terms and parts of left. But I think

1895
01:58:27,040 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 1: I think it's really kind of like hit everyone in

1896
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:39,560
Speaker 1: ways that like hasn't really been examined. There's been this

1897
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:45,440
Speaker 1: kind of difficulty in having a kind of like theoretical

1898
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:50,000
Speaker 1: and cultural language to speak about Asian American nous, partially

1899
01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:52,440
Speaker 1: because well because like the you know, I've talked about

1900
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:58,200
Speaker 1: this before, right, but like the term Asian American was

1901
01:58:58,240 --> 01:59:02,120
Speaker 1: created by like Third worldists, right, many of who are

1902
01:59:02,120 --> 01:59:04,240
Speaker 1: a Maoist someone whom are certain Marxist Lendinness. But like

1903
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:08,600
Speaker 1: that that whole language just died. I mean, like you

1904
01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, you know you can still find like Boba

1905
01:59:11,160 --> 01:59:14,040
Speaker 1: Vankian or whatever, but like the sort of language is

1906
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:16,840
Speaker 1: like understanding yourself was part of the Third World. And

1907
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 1: like you know, like as as like a liberal national

1908
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:23,360
Speaker 1: liberation movement, like that's over. National liberation is basically dead

1909
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:26,360
Speaker 1: as a politics, like and any and anyone who tried

1910
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:29,080
Speaker 1: it after a certain point like just got called sessionists

1911
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:33,200
Speaker 1: and now just get murdered horribly. Um. And like you know,

1912
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 1: and there's there's obviously also the sort of like China, Vietnam,

1913
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:38,839
Speaker 1: Cambodia fighting each other thing that that has this massive

1914
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:42,400
Speaker 1: impact on that kind of politics, and it gets replaced

1915
01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:46,720
Speaker 1: with um, this kind of politics that's based that's you know,

1916
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 1: it gets sort of replaced by like the Asian civil

1917
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:54,760
Speaker 1: rights movement stuff. Right, But like there's there's no but

1918
01:59:54,800 --> 01:59:57,120
Speaker 1: the things like ASI Rescue is it doesn't have politics,

1919
01:59:57,320 --> 02:00:00,080
Speaker 1: like as politics are completely incoherent. Like you have of

1920
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:03,840
Speaker 1: like you literally have these marches where you have like

1921
02:00:04,080 --> 02:00:07,080
Speaker 1: old school like camp desk squad guys like marching next

1922
02:00:07,080 --> 02:00:11,080
Speaker 1: to maoists, And it's like why you you can because

1923
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:13,120
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be a sort of like panaty logical

1924
02:00:13,160 --> 02:00:15,640
Speaker 1: thing and over time, like all the all the ideologies

1925
02:00:15,760 --> 02:00:18,960
Speaker 1: they're supposed to compose, it die. And but but that

1926
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: meant that like there's there's no like there's no actual

1927
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:26,440
Speaker 1: language to sort of talk about the experience because the

1928
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:29,360
Speaker 1: two sets of vocabularies that like or like wait like

1929
02:00:29,480 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 1: frames of understanding the struggle or just have both kind

1930
02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:40,280
Speaker 1: of like eire basically collapsed or been discredited. And I

1931
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:42,920
Speaker 1: think that leaves this whole and people are trying to

1932
02:00:43,120 --> 02:00:47,160
Speaker 1: fill the hole by like adopting other people's politics, But

1933
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:50,480
Speaker 1: like it doesn't work for us. I don't think, Like

1934
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:54,080
Speaker 1: I I don't know, like I like, I think people

1935
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:57,560
Speaker 1: will disagree with me about the potential of of sort

1936
02:00:57,560 --> 02:00:59,720
Speaker 1: of ancestor politics and politics of elders, but like, I

1937
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:06,280
Speaker 1: don't think it does that much for us. Yeah, I

1938
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:08,840
Speaker 1: think the last thing that I do want to say is,

1939
02:01:08,880 --> 02:01:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, if we've reached the limits of a lot

1940
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:18,120
Speaker 1: of the politics that we've been seeing here, Um, what

1941
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: what what kinds of politics and what kind you also

1942
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:22,320
Speaker 1: sort of what kind of media do you do? You

1943
02:01:22,400 --> 02:01:24,040
Speaker 1: do you see as stuff that we can used to

1944
02:01:24,040 --> 02:01:25,840
Speaker 1: go beyond this, because I think there is a lot

1945
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:29,560
Speaker 1: of like like, there are a lot of like people

1946
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:40,080
Speaker 1: creating good like queer stuff, not like yeah, actually I

1947
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:43,560
Speaker 1: think I mentioned this to you. Um. I recently watched

1948
02:01:43,560 --> 02:01:47,680
Speaker 1: this film called Return to Soul Um. It's by a

1949
02:01:47,760 --> 02:01:53,720
Speaker 1: director called Davy two, and it's about a French Korean adoptee.

1950
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:57,280
Speaker 1: So she was adopted from Korea as a baby, I

1951
02:01:57,320 --> 02:01:59,720
Speaker 1: mean yeah, as a baby by French parents and grew

1952
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:02,360
Speaker 1: up in friends and the film is like kind of

1953
02:02:02,360 --> 02:02:06,560
Speaker 1: a journey of her going back to Korea and meeting

1954
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 1: her birth family. But it's like, it's not it doesn't

1955
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 1: fall into the same sort of like family natalist politics.

1956
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:24,120
Speaker 1: It's very like deeply questioning of of the family and

1957
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 1: of even like this idea that um, I guess what

1958
02:02:32,400 --> 02:02:39,880
Speaker 1: the sort of like wayward queer stray Asian child like

1959
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:43,200
Speaker 1: needs in order to heal from trauma, Like she doesn't

1960
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:50,160
Speaker 1: really have reconciliations with either family, like either her French

1961
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:52,800
Speaker 1: family that she comes from, like they're very much sidelined

1962
02:02:52,840 --> 02:02:56,720
Speaker 1: in this film, they just don't play that big of

1963
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,800
Speaker 1: a role. And then she and then when she goes

1964
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:02,360
Speaker 1: to Korea, you know, she has these very like awkward

1965
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:06,880
Speaker 1: encounters meeting her birth family because they're like immediately like, oh,

1966
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, we're so sorry we gave you away. Now

1967
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:12,240
Speaker 1: you're back, you could come live with us. And then

1968
02:03:12,320 --> 02:03:15,160
Speaker 1: she's just like hold on, like I don't even know

1969
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:19,040
Speaker 1: if I consider you my family. And so it it

1970
02:03:19,160 --> 02:03:23,520
Speaker 1: seemed to me like to really depart from this like

1971
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:28,120
Speaker 1: script that we've become so accustomed to in Asian diasporic

1972
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:32,520
Speaker 1: film in a really interesting way, I thought. And it's

1973
02:03:32,560 --> 02:03:34,720
Speaker 1: also a lot about music, Like it's a very moody,

1974
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:40,280
Speaker 1: music driven film. It doesn't feel that identitarian. Yeah, I

1975
02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:45,520
Speaker 1: would recommend everyone to watch it everything every all at once.

1976
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: Is we have that we have now told the best

1977
02:03:47,880 --> 02:03:50,480
Speaker 1: version of that story, and I think we can find

1978
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, I would just like like this is this

1979
02:03:54,360 --> 02:03:57,000
Speaker 1: is a really broad recommendation, but like, go watch One

1980
02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:58,440
Speaker 1: car Way. This is this, Okay, this is the most

1981
02:03:58,440 --> 02:04:01,440
Speaker 1: film nerd I'm ever gonna get that doesn't involve I

1982
02:04:03,200 --> 02:04:05,520
Speaker 1: am I suddenly blanking in the name of the thing. Sorry,

1983
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:08,280
Speaker 1: Danel The most film nerd I'm ever going to get

1984
02:04:08,280 --> 02:04:10,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't involve the Commune de Paris eighteen seventy one

1985
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:14,360
Speaker 1: is go watch one Car? Why like they're there? I

1986
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I I think I think there is something

1987
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,920
Speaker 1: to be gained by looking at you know, I mean

1988
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:24,880
Speaker 1: they're like looking at Hong Kong cinema looking at I

1989
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 1: don't know, I I like good, good Americans have finally

1990
02:04:28,400 --> 02:04:33,320
Speaker 1: realized that Korean cinema was really good, which is wonderful. Um,

1991
02:04:33,320 --> 02:04:36,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad, I'm glad. We're, you know, getting to the

1992
02:04:36,480 --> 02:04:38,880
Speaker 1: place where people realize that it's that like, there's a

1993
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 1: lot of great stuff going on there. But we know

1994
02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:45,240
Speaker 1: it is possible for Asians to tell different stories because

1995
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:48,800
Speaker 1: all across the world they already are, right like we

1996
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:51,000
Speaker 1: we are already telling stories that are different and more

1997
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:54,480
Speaker 1: interesting than this. And I think, well then, and I

1998
02:04:54,600 --> 02:04:56,720
Speaker 1: must typically saying, like, then everything everywell it wants. But

1999
02:04:56,720 --> 02:04:59,760
Speaker 1: then that then then the specific structure that that the

2000
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:03,560
Speaker 1: the Asian American movies fallen too, and yeah, people should

2001
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:07,560
Speaker 1: go discover them because they're great, and yeah, we can

2002
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 1: find new and better kinds of queer joy and yeah, yeah, Tiffany,

2003
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us and being on.

2004
02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm saying us as if there's

2005
02:05:17,640 --> 02:05:21,520
Speaker 1: more than me here, but yeah, thank you, thank you

2006
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:24,920
Speaker 1: for being on the show. Yeah anytime. Thank you for

2007
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:30,560
Speaker 1: having me on. And it's been a really stimulating conversation. Yeah. Yeah,

2008
02:05:30,680 --> 02:05:32,840
Speaker 1: this has been naked Happened Here. You can find us

2009
02:05:32,920 --> 02:05:35,400
Speaker 1: at Happened Here pod on Twitter and Instagram. You can

2010
02:05:35,400 --> 02:05:38,960
Speaker 1: find Coals on Media at Coals on Media. I hope

2011
02:05:38,960 --> 02:05:41,680
Speaker 1: it's Cools on Media. I'm actually not one hundred percent suffets.

2012
02:05:41,800 --> 02:05:45,160
Speaker 1: I should know this by now. I simply have not learned.

2013
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:50,280
Speaker 1: M Yeah, go go, go, go into the world. B

2014
02:05:50,440 --> 02:06:09,400
Speaker 1: gad crime. Welcome Dick had Happened Here The show about

2015
02:06:09,480 --> 02:06:11,840
Speaker 1: things following apart and how to put them back together again.

2016
02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:14,280
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Mia Wong, and today we have a

2017
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:16,960
Speaker 1: really exciting episode. We're gonna be talking to a group

2018
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:20,680
Speaker 1: of workers from the California Nurses Association, which is specifically

2019
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:23,480
Speaker 1: their national Organizing Committee, which is I think better known

2020
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:25,720
Speaker 1: to most people. And then you are a national Nurses

2021
02:06:25,800 --> 02:06:31,920
Speaker 1: United and these people are part of a shift of

2022
02:06:31,920 --> 02:06:35,040
Speaker 1: workers who was for the first time running a rank

2023
02:06:35,080 --> 02:06:38,680
Speaker 1: and file slate for the Council of Presidents, which is

2024
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:41,400
Speaker 1: sort of they're a body that combines the positions of

2025
02:06:41,480 --> 02:06:44,520
Speaker 1: vice president president in the Union. They're called Shift Change

2026
02:06:44,640 --> 02:06:48,200
Speaker 1: and so, Eric, do you want to introduce yourself? All right?

2027
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:51,320
Speaker 1: My name is Eric Cook. I've been a nurse for

2028
02:06:51,440 --> 02:06:56,920
Speaker 1: thirty two years. I currently work in the cardiac telemetry floor.

2029
02:06:57,400 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 1: And I became a nurse after being a Navy corn

2030
02:07:00,280 --> 02:07:05,240
Speaker 1: in the First Gulf War and just continued in healthcare

2031
02:07:05,280 --> 02:07:08,320
Speaker 1: from there. I was originally an alvin and then became

2032
02:07:08,360 --> 02:07:11,880
Speaker 1: a registered nurse, and I've been on the past three

2033
02:07:11,920 --> 02:07:18,320
Speaker 1: negotiating teams for Altabates Summit Hospital and I've seen a

2034
02:07:18,320 --> 02:07:22,400
Speaker 1: lot of changes in the attitude and movement of the

2035
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:29,720
Speaker 1: union in the past twelve years. So I'm hoping with

2036
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:34,120
Speaker 1: John and Raina and Mark to make a change for

2037
02:07:34,200 --> 02:07:37,480
Speaker 1: our union and our members for the better. Yeah. I'm glad,

2038
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:41,200
Speaker 1: glad you could be here to join us. Thank you. Yeah, Rina,

2039
02:07:41,240 --> 02:07:44,520
Speaker 1: do you want to introduce yourself? Hi? There, I'm Rina Lindsay.

2040
02:07:45,080 --> 02:07:49,560
Speaker 1: I have been a California nurse for over thirteen years,

2041
02:07:50,280 --> 02:07:54,080
Speaker 1: and out of those thirteen years, eight of them I've

2042
02:07:54,120 --> 02:07:57,320
Speaker 1: been in Altibate's Medical Center, which was my first union

2043
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:02,760
Speaker 1: as an r N how I And also I'm sorry,

2044
02:08:02,760 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 1: And also I work in ice you and I've been

2045
02:08:06,800 --> 02:08:13,520
Speaker 1: there through been there for about seven years wow. And

2046
02:08:13,560 --> 02:08:17,880
Speaker 1: I've worked with Eric a year prior to that. So

2047
02:08:19,240 --> 02:08:22,120
Speaker 1: the reason why I became a nurse is a long story,

2048
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:27,520
Speaker 1: but the bridge version is at the beginning, I wanted

2049
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:30,600
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. So when I went to college

2050
02:08:31,560 --> 02:08:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of fight. I was dyslexic, so that kind of

2051
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:38,040
Speaker 1: backed out. And then I also was a teen mom,

2052
02:08:38,280 --> 02:08:41,200
Speaker 1: which that's something that a lot of people do not

2053
02:08:41,360 --> 02:08:46,720
Speaker 1: know about me. And during that whole process, I wanted

2054
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,760
Speaker 1: to find something that I could be an advocate for

2055
02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:53,480
Speaker 1: people and also know the political side of it. So

2056
02:08:53,640 --> 02:08:56,440
Speaker 1: nursing became the best benefit. One thing I love about

2057
02:08:56,520 --> 02:09:00,320
Speaker 1: nursing is you can learn everything about the world to

2058
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:04,440
Speaker 1: know about people without going anywhere, So that was the thrill.

2059
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:08,160
Speaker 1: And then also being an advocate for the patients I

2060
02:09:08,280 --> 02:09:12,960
Speaker 1: take care for. In addition to that, you know, knowing

2061
02:09:13,160 --> 02:09:17,000
Speaker 1: my peers and knowing that we all have the similar

2062
02:09:17,080 --> 02:09:20,960
Speaker 1: struggles when it comes to the systems that we work for.

2063
02:09:21,160 --> 02:09:25,120
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter which employer you work for, and so being

2064
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:29,400
Speaker 1: in the union, it gives you that way of a

2065
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:33,160
Speaker 1: contract between you and your employer. And along the way

2066
02:09:33,560 --> 02:09:36,200
Speaker 1: there has been some issues which Eric and I and

2067
02:09:36,360 --> 02:09:42,520
Speaker 1: John all been experiencing where things do need to change,

2068
02:09:42,920 --> 02:09:48,720
Speaker 1: and being part of shift change is part where we

2069
02:09:49,120 --> 02:09:52,440
Speaker 1: have to change of leadership and be more transparent between

2070
02:09:52,880 --> 02:10:00,000
Speaker 1: the union, the employer, and the people in general. Hell yeah,

2071
02:10:00,040 --> 02:10:02,800
Speaker 1: and yeah, John, do you want to introduce yourself? Yeah? Sure,

2072
02:10:03,200 --> 02:10:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm John Horonymous. I'm a packy recovery nurse at University

2073
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:12,840
Speaker 1: of Chicago. Before that, I was in the medical U

2074
02:10:12,920 --> 02:10:18,680
Speaker 1: for six and a half years. And then before that,

2075
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:22,600
Speaker 1: I was like a associate's degree r END working at

2076
02:10:22,640 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 1: the emergency room at holy Cross Hospital. And I also started,

2077
02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 1: which is funny to me, as an LPN, which is

2078
02:10:30,040 --> 02:10:33,280
Speaker 1: the same thing as an LVN that Eric did. And

2079
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:37,000
Speaker 1: I was a CNA before that. I decided to become

2080
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:40,280
Speaker 1: a nurse way back in the day when I was

2081
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:42,360
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what I wanted to do after

2082
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:45,720
Speaker 1: dropping out of high school, and I was thinking about

2083
02:10:45,760 --> 02:10:47,800
Speaker 1: man and maybe I should become like a history teacher,

2084
02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:49,320
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, why would I want to

2085
02:10:49,360 --> 02:10:51,200
Speaker 1: go back to this place I hate so much? I

2086
02:10:51,280 --> 02:10:55,680
Speaker 1: dropped out of it. And I personally got like incredibly

2087
02:10:55,960 --> 02:10:58,640
Speaker 1: sick with something called ul sort of kalitis, and I

2088
02:10:58,680 --> 02:11:03,040
Speaker 1: got bunch of surgeries done and got some really amazing

2089
02:11:03,720 --> 02:11:08,280
Speaker 1: experience being taken care of by nurses, and it became

2090
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:11,360
Speaker 1: really immediately obvious to me, like I also, like Raina,

2091
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:15,280
Speaker 1: wanted to help people. And also I thought that nursing

2092
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:19,640
Speaker 1: was like a way where even like for you know, individuals,

2093
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:22,400
Speaker 1: I could change someone's day just a little bit for

2094
02:11:22,440 --> 02:11:26,600
Speaker 1: the better, but also like maybe changed some bigger things.

2095
02:11:26,960 --> 02:11:28,880
Speaker 1: And so I thought nursing was just like a really

2096
02:11:28,880 --> 02:11:32,080
Speaker 1: great way to do that. Also, it's really fortunate to

2097
02:11:32,120 --> 02:11:35,240
Speaker 1: be raised by an amazing nurse. My mom was a

2098
02:11:35,360 --> 02:11:40,040
Speaker 1: nurse and she was always like she's like one of

2099
02:11:40,080 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 1: those people was my hero. And a lot of other

2100
02:11:45,000 --> 02:11:49,440
Speaker 1: nurses in my family, both men and women, including someone

2101
02:11:49,480 --> 02:11:52,360
Speaker 1: who is like a Kentucky frontier nurses like the first

2102
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:55,400
Speaker 1: group of nurse practitioner nurse midwife back in the like

2103
02:11:55,440 --> 02:12:00,280
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, back in Kentucky. So I got a

2104
02:12:00,280 --> 02:12:03,200
Speaker 1: lot of nurses in my family and on this like

2105
02:12:03,680 --> 02:12:09,040
Speaker 1: incredibly proud to be like paring on all the stuff

2106
02:12:09,040 --> 02:12:11,400
Speaker 1: that they have been doing for all their years as

2107
02:12:11,520 --> 02:12:16,400
Speaker 1: like nurses, so and like meeting the folks out in California,

2108
02:12:16,520 --> 02:12:18,840
Speaker 1: like Raina and Eric. It just makes me feel so good,

2109
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:23,360
Speaker 1: like we're doing really important stuff in terms of both

2110
02:12:23,520 --> 02:12:27,640
Speaker 1: our daily practice of being a nurse, but also like

2111
02:12:28,080 --> 02:12:31,760
Speaker 1: that we can have like this bigger impact on how

2112
02:12:31,800 --> 02:12:34,360
Speaker 1: things are happening in our profession, in the healthcare industry,

2113
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:39,400
Speaker 1: and just the broader world. Yeah. Yeah, we've we've talked

2114
02:12:39,440 --> 02:12:43,000
Speaker 1: like a decent amount on this show now about sort

2115
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:45,480
Speaker 1: of the labor issues that have been facing nurses both

2116
02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:47,920
Speaker 1: actually here and in the UK, and I think a

2117
02:12:47,960 --> 02:12:49,920
Speaker 1: little bit in a couple of other countries. Yeah, I was.

2118
02:12:49,960 --> 02:12:52,280
Speaker 1: I was wondering what were the sort of specific things

2119
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:55,960
Speaker 1: that you all were dealing with, both just in the

2120
02:12:56,000 --> 02:13:00,440
Speaker 1: profession and then also in the union that got altogether

2121
02:13:00,600 --> 02:13:04,680
Speaker 1: to run this sleep Okay, So one of the things

2122
02:13:04,760 --> 02:13:10,280
Speaker 1: that caused us to actually meet, by coincidence was one

2123
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:15,360
Speaker 1: of my co workers, told Doordall, who's a Norwegian nurse

2124
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:20,760
Speaker 1: who's been a nurse here in America for over thirty years.

2125
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:27,920
Speaker 1: She contacted labor notes and you know, realizing something was

2126
02:13:27,960 --> 02:13:32,480
Speaker 1: wrong in our union, she started talking with specifically Sarah

2127
02:13:32,600 --> 02:13:38,440
Speaker 1: Hughes at labor Notes, and through labor Notes and Sarah,

2128
02:13:38,480 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 1: we were able to connect with John and Chicago, and

2129
02:13:42,040 --> 02:13:46,240
Speaker 1: it was amazing that what we discovered is that our

2130
02:13:46,280 --> 02:13:54,920
Speaker 1: problems here in California were mimicking what they've experienced in Chicago,

2131
02:13:55,640 --> 02:14:01,000
Speaker 1: and through Sarah finding out from other diverse communities of

2132
02:14:01,080 --> 02:14:07,000
Speaker 1: nurses in Texas, Florida, North Carolina, New York, in Minnesota

2133
02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:10,680
Speaker 1: that the same things are happening there under our same union.

2134
02:14:11,320 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 1: And our complaint was through our union, was that we

2135
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:17,880
Speaker 1: felt we were being siloed. And of course, when I

2136
02:14:17,920 --> 02:14:23,160
Speaker 1: say siloed, is actually in our negotiations. We had seventeen

2137
02:14:23,240 --> 02:14:27,280
Speaker 1: facilities negotiating, but we were told that we were not

2138
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:30,440
Speaker 1: allowed to communicate with each other. I said, it was

2139
02:14:30,680 --> 02:14:38,400
Speaker 1: it was forbidden by the federal mediator. Now why this is? Yes, yes,

2140
02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:43,000
Speaker 1: I know that was my reaction initially too. There were

2141
02:14:43,000 --> 02:14:46,840
Speaker 1: two other negotiators on the team and it was highly

2142
02:14:46,880 --> 02:14:51,880
Speaker 1: suspicious because the union wanted to put all new nurses

2143
02:14:52,560 --> 02:14:56,200
Speaker 1: onto the negotiating team, and that was a little bit

2144
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:59,040
Speaker 1: of a red flag. There were so many red flags

2145
02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:04,080
Speaker 1: through this negotiation. I swear I could almost see Lennon's tomb.

2146
02:15:04,160 --> 02:15:08,760
Speaker 1: That's how many red flags there were. It was amazing

2147
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:12,720
Speaker 1: to us is that they said the mediator forbade us

2148
02:15:12,720 --> 02:15:16,440
Speaker 1: from talking to each other, because that was part of

2149
02:15:16,440 --> 02:15:20,800
Speaker 1: the agreement to have the federal mediator. The three of

2150
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:26,680
Speaker 1: us that had previous experience with negotiating just knew that

2151
02:15:26,880 --> 02:15:33,400
Speaker 1: was the wrong thing. And it took over at least

2152
02:15:33,480 --> 02:15:36,840
Speaker 1: about seven months before we started breaking through to other

2153
02:15:36,960 --> 02:15:41,240
Speaker 1: tables and communicating with them on text and having our

2154
02:15:41,240 --> 02:15:45,040
Speaker 1: own zoom conversations with them to convince them that no,

2155
02:15:45,320 --> 02:15:47,760
Speaker 1: this is a lie. We are allowed to talk to

2156
02:15:47,800 --> 02:15:51,520
Speaker 1: each other. And we end up finding out that we

2157
02:15:51,520 --> 02:15:55,960
Speaker 1: were kind of being railroaded into what we considered an

2158
02:15:55,960 --> 02:16:00,760
Speaker 1: agreement that was less than satisfactory for the workers, for

2159
02:16:00,800 --> 02:16:05,400
Speaker 1: the nurses who have suffered during the pandemic, we could

2160
02:16:05,400 --> 02:16:10,560
Speaker 1: have gotten probably one of the greatest contracts that any

2161
02:16:11,080 --> 02:16:16,560
Speaker 1: nursing body had ever received. We had the industry by

2162
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:20,440
Speaker 1: the throat. We suffered so much, you know, John, everybody

2163
02:16:20,440 --> 02:16:23,960
Speaker 1: throughout the country, all the nurses suffered, everybody's suffered, but

2164
02:16:24,920 --> 02:16:30,280
Speaker 1: everybody that was at that bedside during the pandemic. We

2165
02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:35,360
Speaker 1: it was a horrific experience. It's great when you take

2166
02:16:35,400 --> 02:16:38,000
Speaker 1: care of people and you heal them. Yes, it's that's

2167
02:16:38,040 --> 02:16:43,440
Speaker 1: a great thing. But the stress and the you know,

2168
02:16:43,600 --> 02:16:47,920
Speaker 1: the unending anxiety that you felt, and then in the

2169
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:51,840
Speaker 1: midst of this, you have a union that short changes

2170
02:16:51,920 --> 02:16:55,480
Speaker 1: you at a point when we had so much power,

2171
02:16:56,600 --> 02:17:00,800
Speaker 1: And thank Heavens for Sarah to put us into contact

2172
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:04,200
Speaker 1: with all these other nurses to realize that it wasn't

2173
02:17:04,240 --> 02:17:09,039
Speaker 1: just the subter division of the California Nurses Association that

2174
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:14,400
Speaker 1: was running things among it was actually it seemed to

2175
02:17:14,440 --> 02:17:19,040
Speaker 1: be a perceived playbook plan of what they were doing

2176
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:24,640
Speaker 1: throughout the country. And I think nobody perceives themselves as

2177
02:17:24,720 --> 02:17:28,199
Speaker 1: doing evil or anything like that. I think they always

2178
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:33,160
Speaker 1: think that they're doing it for the better interest of everybody.

2179
02:17:33,200 --> 02:17:37,640
Speaker 1: But that's what's important about a rank and file movement

2180
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:42,440
Speaker 1: is that every nurse, every person in the union is

2181
02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:47,039
Speaker 1: important and deserves a voice. And we don't need to

2182
02:17:47,080 --> 02:17:52,200
Speaker 1: be gas lit, we don't need to be mistreated by

2183
02:17:52,360 --> 02:17:57,920
Speaker 1: the union that we pay to represent us. We need

2184
02:17:57,959 --> 02:18:01,720
Speaker 1: to be marching on the boss. We could have had

2185
02:18:03,640 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: an unending euphoria for nurses with a contract. We could

2186
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:13,720
Speaker 1: have had great staffing, we could have had better pay,

2187
02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:16,120
Speaker 1: we could have had everything that we wanted to make

2188
02:18:16,160 --> 02:18:20,080
Speaker 1: our work lives to be the best they could be,

2189
02:18:21,400 --> 02:18:25,360
Speaker 1: and it seemed our union already had a preplanned agreement

2190
02:18:25,720 --> 02:18:30,760
Speaker 1: with the corporation. Now they deny that, but it's kind

2191
02:18:30,840 --> 02:18:33,280
Speaker 1: of hard to believe when they had the same agreement

2192
02:18:34,520 --> 02:18:40,000
Speaker 1: that they were supposedly negotiating in silos, that they weren't communicating.

2193
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:42,879
Speaker 1: Each table was supposedly negotiating their own, but it was

2194
02:18:42,920 --> 02:18:46,480
Speaker 1: the same thing they wanted at every table, and not

2195
02:18:46,560 --> 02:18:51,080
Speaker 1: all the tables were equal. It was very sad for us.

2196
02:18:51,520 --> 02:18:53,960
Speaker 1: Like I said, this is the third negotiating team. I

2197
02:18:54,120 --> 02:18:57,760
Speaker 1: was on the first negotiating team I was on. We

2198
02:18:58,560 --> 02:19:02,600
Speaker 1: lasted over two years negotiating, and we went through nine

2199
02:19:02,720 --> 02:19:07,439
Speaker 1: strikes and threatened a tenth and until we got an agreement.

2200
02:19:08,040 --> 02:19:13,560
Speaker 1: So our hospital, obviously it's Altibates Hospital in Berkeley. Our

2201
02:19:13,720 --> 02:19:18,279
Speaker 1: sister hospital Summit Hospital in Oakland, and we have affiliated

2202
02:19:18,320 --> 02:19:23,280
Speaker 1: with us is the Herrot Campus, which is the the

2203
02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:31,360
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility. And we have struggled so much through this pandemic,

2204
02:19:32,480 --> 02:19:35,360
Speaker 1: and it was amazing to us that we came up

2205
02:19:37,120 --> 02:19:40,040
Speaker 1: with less than what we should have gotten. I will

2206
02:19:40,080 --> 02:19:43,600
Speaker 1: tell you that thanks to Sarah and meeting all these

2207
02:19:43,600 --> 02:19:47,280
Speaker 1: other nurses. We were able to come back, and I

2208
02:19:47,320 --> 02:19:52,240
Speaker 1: think through fear and intimidation, our union was forced to

2209
02:19:52,280 --> 02:19:57,520
Speaker 1: back us and we're able to get economically what we wanted.

2210
02:19:58,000 --> 02:20:00,200
Speaker 1: But like the rest of the country is nurse is,

2211
02:20:00,240 --> 02:20:04,800
Speaker 1: we wanted better staffing, we needed more more bodies at

2212
02:20:04,800 --> 02:20:11,360
Speaker 1: the bedside. We're overworked, we're fatigued. Raina worked in the

2213
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:15,160
Speaker 1: ICU and they had their own COVID unit there. Um,

2214
02:20:16,640 --> 02:20:18,960
Speaker 1: I don't think there was enough tums and roll aids

2215
02:20:19,000 --> 02:20:24,800
Speaker 1: to go around for all those nurses. The anxiety and um,

2216
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, the heart in your throat. And of course

2217
02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:32,200
Speaker 1: John himself, I don't want to his personal business, but

2218
02:20:32,640 --> 02:20:36,840
Speaker 1: you know his experience. He has long COVID. So we

2219
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:39,760
Speaker 1: we as nurses, have suffered quite a bit and we

2220
02:20:39,840 --> 02:20:44,080
Speaker 1: expected a lot more from our union. Yeah, and I

2221
02:20:44,120 --> 02:20:48,520
Speaker 1: mean even just on a very basic level, like no

2222
02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:50,480
Speaker 1: matter what you go through, you have the right for

2223
02:20:50,480 --> 02:20:53,040
Speaker 1: your union not to light you. Let's see, this is

2224
02:20:53,240 --> 02:20:59,280
Speaker 1: a very elementary sort of that. That's a really elementary thing. Yeah,

2225
02:20:59,400 --> 02:21:06,879
Speaker 1: but it's really, um, it's really scary how comfortable some

2226
02:21:06,959 --> 02:21:10,360
Speaker 1: of the people who are paid their wages out of

2227
02:21:10,360 --> 02:21:14,080
Speaker 1: our dues are with lying to us. I think that's

2228
02:21:14,080 --> 02:21:17,720
Speaker 1: a thing that like, um, you know, like we're one

2229
02:21:17,760 --> 02:21:20,520
Speaker 1: of the things we're specifically fighting for is like transparency

2230
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:28,600
Speaker 1: and accountability, especially for our staff. And you know, when I,

2231
02:21:28,760 --> 02:21:30,720
Speaker 1: you know, Eric mentioned that I had had long COVID,

2232
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm finally getting I've been to the point where I'm

2233
02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:35,760
Speaker 1: like as recovered as I probably ever will be, and

2234
02:21:36,000 --> 02:21:39,480
Speaker 1: which is great. You know, being recovered from long COVID

2235
02:21:39,560 --> 02:21:43,720
Speaker 1: is so much better than having long COVID. But you know,

2236
02:21:44,240 --> 02:21:46,160
Speaker 1: I was always like someone that they came to to

2237
02:21:46,200 --> 02:21:49,760
Speaker 1: ask for help with like political sorts of issues inside

2238
02:21:49,760 --> 02:21:53,640
Speaker 1: the union, where they would come to me for Medicare

2239
02:21:53,680 --> 02:21:59,480
Speaker 1: for all or um, you know, speaking around things like

2240
02:21:59,600 --> 02:22:02,000
Speaker 1: ratio was that sort of stuff. Or they would send

2241
02:22:02,040 --> 02:22:04,360
Speaker 1: me off to When the Chicago teachers went on strike

2242
02:22:04,400 --> 02:22:07,760
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, I was sent to speak on behalf

2243
02:22:07,800 --> 02:22:09,800
Speaker 1: of our union for them, and you know, just doing

2244
02:22:09,840 --> 02:22:12,960
Speaker 1: the work of I'm kind of a I'm a bit

2245
02:22:13,000 --> 02:22:19,920
Speaker 1: of an agitator. And then COVID hit and it was

2246
02:22:20,600 --> 02:22:26,520
Speaker 1: just a really surreal experience. And my area, the hospital

2247
02:22:26,879 --> 02:22:29,879
Speaker 1: is one of those places where they basically did everything

2248
02:22:29,920 --> 02:22:32,280
Speaker 1: they could to minimize the amount of surgeries we were

2249
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:34,960
Speaker 1: doing initially when the lockdowns were happening for the first

2250
02:22:35,000 --> 02:22:39,080
Speaker 1: six months of pandemic, and then but they were moving

2251
02:22:39,160 --> 02:22:42,000
Speaker 1: us into because we are all former ICU nurses, so

2252
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:44,080
Speaker 1: I would do my shift a few shifts up in

2253
02:22:44,080 --> 02:22:47,440
Speaker 1: the medical U than we made a special clean ICU

2254
02:22:47,560 --> 02:22:50,640
Speaker 1: because we were still getting traumas. A University of Chicago

2255
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:57,400
Speaker 1: apparently sees more penetrating gunshot and stab wounds than any

2256
02:22:57,440 --> 02:23:00,680
Speaker 1: other hospital in the United States. Thirty percent of traumas

2257
02:23:00,680 --> 02:23:07,640
Speaker 1: are are from some sort of violence, which is substantially

2258
02:23:07,680 --> 02:23:12,400
Speaker 1: higher than anywhere else in the US. And then I

2259
02:23:12,480 --> 02:23:15,320
Speaker 1: got sick, right, and so to me, the union was

2260
02:23:15,360 --> 02:23:16,960
Speaker 1: like a thing that was like, man, this is nice

2261
02:23:16,959 --> 02:23:19,680
Speaker 1: to have. I had never worked at any union hospital before.

2262
02:23:20,360 --> 02:23:23,080
Speaker 1: Getting union raises was like a big step up in

2263
02:23:23,160 --> 02:23:28,000
Speaker 1: my life, you know. And it was also like, oh, yeah,

2264
02:23:28,000 --> 02:23:30,760
Speaker 1: our union's progressive, Like I kind of I like most

2265
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:35,680
Speaker 1: of the things that it stands for, and I didn't

2266
02:23:35,720 --> 02:23:38,199
Speaker 1: really think of it as someone that needed the union

2267
02:23:38,400 --> 02:23:40,720
Speaker 1: right to do. The things that unions really kind of

2268
02:23:40,760 --> 02:23:43,000
Speaker 1: like is the bread and butter of unions, which is

2269
02:23:43,040 --> 02:23:46,560
Speaker 1: like coming in and like helping you when you need help.

2270
02:23:46,800 --> 02:23:51,000
Speaker 1: As an individual worker, and you know, when you're not

2271
02:23:51,040 --> 02:23:53,840
Speaker 1: in the middle of like a contract negotiation, and I

2272
02:23:53,879 --> 02:23:58,200
Speaker 1: got sick with long COVID and lost. We had negotiated

2273
02:23:58,200 --> 02:24:03,279
Speaker 1: this great you know, like COVID six pay policy, and

2274
02:24:03,959 --> 02:24:07,600
Speaker 1: management just took that away without like from me, without

2275
02:24:07,600 --> 02:24:11,080
Speaker 1: really giving any notice or you know, explaination why. And

2276
02:24:11,840 --> 02:24:14,200
Speaker 1: you sit there trying to get like the help that

2277
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:17,440
Speaker 1: you need from your Union's like I'm trying to explain

2278
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:19,720
Speaker 1: why it is that like this is a problem for

2279
02:24:19,840 --> 02:24:23,360
Speaker 1: me to our labor rep, who's like our they called

2280
02:24:23,360 --> 02:24:26,040
Speaker 1: them business agents, labor reps whatever. There are people who

2281
02:24:26,800 --> 02:24:30,800
Speaker 1: basically are paid out of our dues to kind of

2282
02:24:31,240 --> 02:24:35,320
Speaker 1: help us in theory like stay organized and be pushing

2283
02:24:35,400 --> 02:24:39,920
Speaker 1: management to do, you know, to follow the contract. And

2284
02:24:40,560 --> 02:24:44,160
Speaker 1: it got to the point where like my partner who's

2285
02:24:44,240 --> 02:24:46,880
Speaker 1: like is like literally screaming at the labor repel. I'm

2286
02:24:46,879 --> 02:24:48,760
Speaker 1: on the phone with the labor rep and she's, you know,

2287
02:24:48,920 --> 02:24:51,080
Speaker 1: just like what the fuck is your union even doing?

2288
02:24:51,200 --> 02:24:53,400
Speaker 1: Like why are they not making sure that you're taking

2289
02:24:53,440 --> 02:24:55,680
Speaker 1: care of And it was like this really like come

2290
02:24:55,720 --> 02:24:58,360
Speaker 1: to Jesus moment where you're like, oh, yeah, like this

2291
02:24:58,600 --> 02:25:02,920
Speaker 1: union ship isn't just like you know, platitudes about like

2292
02:25:02,920 --> 02:25:05,760
Speaker 1: we need a ratio bill in Illinois or you know,

2293
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:09,040
Speaker 1: Medicare for all or Bernie Sanders. It's like, oh, this

2294
02:25:09,080 --> 02:25:13,320
Speaker 1: shit is actually like about my material well being and

2295
02:25:13,440 --> 02:25:16,119
Speaker 1: like my family still hasn't recovered from all that because

2296
02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:20,120
Speaker 1: they only you know, after an enormous amount of pressure

2297
02:25:20,280 --> 02:25:23,080
Speaker 1: was put on staff, they finally started looking into it,

2298
02:25:23,800 --> 02:25:27,560
Speaker 1: um and we got you know, payouts for not just me,

2299
02:25:27,680 --> 02:25:30,400
Speaker 1: but for ten other nurses who had had their COVID

2300
02:25:30,480 --> 02:25:36,600
Speaker 1: pay like cut, you like, really unjust ways um. And

2301
02:25:36,680 --> 02:25:38,920
Speaker 1: it really opened my eyes as to like what a

2302
02:25:39,120 --> 02:25:42,080
Speaker 1: union should be doing. Um. And it really opened my

2303
02:25:42,120 --> 02:25:45,640
Speaker 1: eyes that maybe there's a problem with how staff interact

2304
02:25:45,720 --> 02:25:50,840
Speaker 1: with us as workers, because like there should be um.

2305
02:25:51,440 --> 02:25:53,280
Speaker 1: You know, we try and like say, like you know,

2306
02:25:53,320 --> 02:25:58,000
Speaker 1: there's a service union service business or service unionism, and

2307
02:25:58,000 --> 02:26:00,640
Speaker 1: then there's rank and value unionism. We had this weird

2308
02:26:00,680 --> 02:26:02,760
Speaker 1: situation union where they tell us where a rank and

2309
02:26:02,800 --> 02:26:08,680
Speaker 1: file democratic union, except the staff kind of treat us like,

2310
02:26:08,879 --> 02:26:11,199
Speaker 1: you know, it's a business union. So we get told

2311
02:26:11,240 --> 02:26:14,280
Speaker 1: one thing, but then we see another thing and like

2312
02:26:15,760 --> 02:26:19,880
Speaker 1: not that I think that like, uh, it's you know,

2313
02:26:20,400 --> 02:26:22,280
Speaker 1: the whole point of a union, you kind of pull

2314
02:26:22,320 --> 02:26:24,240
Speaker 1: together to take care of people who can't necessarily take

2315
02:26:24,280 --> 02:26:26,960
Speaker 1: care of themselves in that moment, and like, it just

2316
02:26:27,000 --> 02:26:30,280
Speaker 1: took an enormous amount of effort on my family's part

2317
02:26:30,320 --> 02:26:34,240
Speaker 1: to like get that moving, and it just seemed incredibly

2318
02:26:34,320 --> 02:26:36,039
Speaker 1: It was just very eye opening for me as a

2319
02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:41,240
Speaker 1: you know, my experience here in Chicago. No, that that's

2320
02:26:41,320 --> 02:26:43,800
Speaker 1: really bleak. I mean that that's another thing that you

2321
02:26:43,800 --> 02:26:47,879
Speaker 1: would you know, you would expect a union like to

2322
02:26:48,080 --> 02:26:50,440
Speaker 1: just be on top of not not even just a

2323
02:26:50,520 --> 02:26:53,160
Speaker 1: sort of oh well, you asked them and they started

2324
02:26:53,160 --> 02:26:55,560
Speaker 1: doing it. Like you you would think that, hey, the

2325
02:26:55,600 --> 02:26:58,640
Speaker 1: people who got COVID doing this job not getting paid

2326
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:02,000
Speaker 1: what they're to be getting paid would be like a

2327
02:27:02,040 --> 02:27:03,879
Speaker 1: priority and not something you have to fight them over.

2328
02:27:04,760 --> 02:27:10,480
Speaker 1: That is, Oh, that is incredibly krim. I don't know, well,

2329
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:13,240
Speaker 1: I haven't a story for you. So my first year

2330
02:27:13,800 --> 02:27:18,160
Speaker 1: working at out debates. Before that, I was working in

2331
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:22,680
Speaker 1: Swaller hospitals and they gave you certain packages about your benefits.

2332
02:27:23,440 --> 02:27:26,000
Speaker 1: So when it was time for me to get my benefits,

2333
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't get my benefits at all because during that

2334
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:31,000
Speaker 1: time they were doing it at the yearly. So I said,

2335
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:33,920
Speaker 1: is there any way possible at least to get something,

2336
02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:36,360
Speaker 1: because mind you, they are paying for my benefits, I'm

2337
02:27:36,360 --> 02:27:40,039
Speaker 1: not paying for it anything for it that there should

2338
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:42,320
Speaker 1: be a reason because if I had any medical issues,

2339
02:27:43,680 --> 02:27:48,520
Speaker 1: what would happen? And basically the union was very lackluster

2340
02:27:48,640 --> 02:27:50,720
Speaker 1: about it. Now, of course I went to the manager,

2341
02:27:51,160 --> 02:27:54,680
Speaker 1: went to human resources. Basically they basically told me where

2342
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:58,280
Speaker 1: there's eighteen hundred nurses, and you know what we're going

2343
02:27:58,320 --> 02:28:02,760
Speaker 1: to do about this issue, and pretty much it was.

2344
02:28:04,879 --> 02:28:07,200
Speaker 1: It's pretty much disappeared about it. There was nothing I

2345
02:28:07,200 --> 02:28:10,400
Speaker 1: could do so for that whole year, so I worked

2346
02:28:10,560 --> 02:28:15,280
Speaker 1: in January of twenty fifteen, I had to wait till

2347
02:28:15,280 --> 02:28:19,959
Speaker 1: the following year to get benefits, to get medical benefits.

2348
02:28:20,080 --> 02:28:23,160
Speaker 1: J Now, I got everything else, so let be honest,

2349
02:28:23,200 --> 02:28:25,720
Speaker 1: I got everything else, but the medical benefits is important.

2350
02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:28,920
Speaker 1: But thank god I don't have any health issues. Thank

2351
02:28:28,959 --> 02:28:32,320
Speaker 1: god my daughters didn't have any health issues where we

2352
02:28:32,400 --> 02:28:35,840
Speaker 1: didn't require any help and there wasn't in an emergency.

2353
02:28:36,480 --> 02:28:39,600
Speaker 1: But when I started noticing there were other nurses or

2354
02:28:39,720 --> 02:28:41,720
Speaker 1: teas that were spirits of the same thing, because a

2355
02:28:41,720 --> 02:28:44,960
Speaker 1: lot of us got hired within that time, frame. They

2356
02:28:45,000 --> 02:28:48,800
Speaker 1: weren't telling us these issues, and we would end up

2357
02:28:48,800 --> 02:28:53,280
Speaker 1: getting these things sooner. And it's all about the transparency,

2358
02:28:53,879 --> 02:28:57,280
Speaker 1: It's all about our value. And then over the years

2359
02:28:57,360 --> 02:29:02,600
Speaker 1: people always complain on these dudes, why are they're not helping?

2360
02:29:02,640 --> 02:29:06,800
Speaker 1: Why are not supportive? And when I was actually hired,

2361
02:29:07,120 --> 02:29:10,000
Speaker 1: they were quick to give you the paperwork to tell

2362
02:29:10,040 --> 02:29:12,240
Speaker 1: you how to pay this all so they could take

2363
02:29:12,280 --> 02:29:15,480
Speaker 1: money off your dues. Quicker than what about the history

2364
02:29:15,600 --> 02:29:19,040
Speaker 1: about the union? Why is the history is? Why is

2365
02:29:19,080 --> 02:29:22,960
Speaker 1: the union important? And what you can do if there's

2366
02:29:23,000 --> 02:29:26,160
Speaker 1: a grievemance? There was none of that, And to this

2367
02:29:26,280 --> 02:29:30,080
Speaker 1: day it's still the same thing because I precept new

2368
02:29:30,160 --> 02:29:32,960
Speaker 1: grads and I tell them about, you know, part of

2369
02:29:33,000 --> 02:29:35,359
Speaker 1: the union. What he got, Oh I didn't get a booklet,

2370
02:29:36,160 --> 02:29:38,200
Speaker 1: or oh I didn't hear anything about it, but I

2371
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:41,520
Speaker 1: got this paper here so they could take out my dues.

2372
02:29:42,080 --> 02:29:45,880
Speaker 1: That's what pisses me off of anything. Is that part

2373
02:29:46,879 --> 02:29:53,360
Speaker 1: so so? And then all this stuff dealing with what

2374
02:29:53,520 --> 02:29:55,440
Speaker 1: Eric has told you, what we've been doing with the

2375
02:29:55,480 --> 02:30:00,800
Speaker 1: strikes and the negotiations. Me personally, we should done negotiates

2376
02:30:00,800 --> 02:30:03,080
Speaker 1: it within the first year the pandemic and I think

2377
02:30:03,080 --> 02:30:05,640
Speaker 1: we got everything, but they were quick to say, no,

2378
02:30:05,959 --> 02:30:08,680
Speaker 1: we're going to get all these facilities all together at

2379
02:30:08,720 --> 02:30:11,520
Speaker 1: one and so we can all negotiate. And then the

2380
02:30:11,560 --> 02:30:15,000
Speaker 1: gag order happened, the slam of the gag order, and

2381
02:30:15,080 --> 02:30:18,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, there is a lot of collusion going on

2382
02:30:18,120 --> 02:30:23,160
Speaker 1: and that shit needs to stop. So, I mean, things

2383
02:30:23,160 --> 02:30:25,200
Speaker 1: that they don't really tell us, which I think is

2384
02:30:25,240 --> 02:30:27,800
Speaker 1: really a thing that we want to resolve, is they

2385
02:30:27,840 --> 02:30:30,400
Speaker 1: don't really inform you of what your union rights are.

2386
02:30:30,959 --> 02:30:32,879
Speaker 1: You kind of get the initial like here's your wine

2387
02:30:32,879 --> 02:30:34,320
Speaker 1: garden rights, which means that you have a right to

2388
02:30:34,720 --> 02:30:38,720
Speaker 1: representation whenever you're being disciplined. But aside from that, there's

2389
02:30:38,840 --> 02:30:43,359
Speaker 1: very little discussion inside of our union facilities, in particular

2390
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:48,680
Speaker 1: about the kinds of things that we have as like

2391
02:30:48,879 --> 02:30:51,920
Speaker 1: union members, what our rights are, what are our rights

2392
02:30:52,000 --> 02:30:56,320
Speaker 1: within the union, how the union works. So many of

2393
02:30:56,360 --> 02:30:59,000
Speaker 1: my co workers don't like a big part of our

2394
02:30:59,040 --> 02:31:01,680
Speaker 1: work is just explore aiming that there's an election happening,

2395
02:31:02,440 --> 02:31:06,160
Speaker 1: and so you would hear that an election it happened,

2396
02:31:06,200 --> 02:31:09,600
Speaker 1: maybe and you know, you would be like, well, who voted,

2397
02:31:09,640 --> 02:31:13,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, like and you'd get these like you know,

2398
02:31:14,640 --> 02:31:18,600
Speaker 1: all of the communication from about the election to us

2399
02:31:18,640 --> 02:31:21,599
Speaker 1: as the people who are like the you know, the opposition,

2400
02:31:22,160 --> 02:31:25,960
Speaker 1: has all been in these very like plane plane envelopes

2401
02:31:25,959 --> 02:31:28,480
Speaker 1: that don't look like anything like it could be like

2402
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:32,760
Speaker 1: just an anonymous bill you wouldn't know or junk mail.

2403
02:31:33,360 --> 02:31:36,600
Speaker 1: And so like, you know, as a union member, you

2404
02:31:36,680 --> 02:31:42,240
Speaker 1: have something called a right to represent representation. So and

2405
02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:47,840
Speaker 1: every union, every union employee and elected officer is considered

2406
02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:51,480
Speaker 1: a fiduciary, has a fiduciary obligation to look out for

2407
02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:54,480
Speaker 1: your financial interests, and if they don't do that, it's

2408
02:31:54,520 --> 02:31:59,120
Speaker 1: called a failure to represent our union. In particular, Spends

2409
02:32:00,160 --> 02:32:04,520
Speaker 1: had brags internally about never having a They called them

2410
02:32:04,600 --> 02:32:08,320
Speaker 1: unfair labor practice. Like if a nurse or any worker

2411
02:32:08,360 --> 02:32:11,680
Speaker 1: in any union decides that their union, you know, did

2412
02:32:11,720 --> 02:32:14,920
Speaker 1: not represent them in their financial interests, they can file

2413
02:32:15,000 --> 02:32:18,360
Speaker 1: something called an unfair labor practice claim for failure to

2414
02:32:18,400 --> 02:32:22,440
Speaker 1: represent our union. Is like, they've never had an unfair

2415
02:32:22,520 --> 02:32:25,879
Speaker 1: labor practice claim. Stick we foy had one of their

2416
02:32:25,959 --> 02:32:29,360
Speaker 1: unfair labor practice claims and somehow it got like withdrawn

2417
02:32:29,879 --> 02:32:33,720
Speaker 1: like in this really like sketchy way, and it was

2418
02:32:33,760 --> 02:32:35,720
Speaker 1: like just a random one that we picked to to

2419
02:32:35,760 --> 02:32:39,360
Speaker 1: see what happened, and so then it got like assigned

2420
02:32:39,480 --> 02:32:44,240
Speaker 1: like a special like liaison like afterwards, like they're like, oh,

2421
02:32:44,280 --> 02:32:47,080
Speaker 1: we weren't supposed to do that, like when we contacted

2422
02:32:47,080 --> 02:32:50,240
Speaker 1: the Department of Labor, We're going to look at that

2423
02:32:50,400 --> 02:32:53,360
Speaker 1: again and figure out what's going on with this. And

2424
02:32:53,400 --> 02:32:56,280
Speaker 1: it also turns out when we started doing research, which

2425
02:32:56,320 --> 02:32:58,879
Speaker 1: I think every union member listening to this should know,

2426
02:32:59,080 --> 02:33:03,280
Speaker 1: every union has to file paperwork. They're legal. There's legally

2427
02:33:03,280 --> 02:33:07,760
Speaker 1: mandated reporting. So there's things called LM two's and nine

2428
02:33:07,959 --> 02:33:10,680
Speaker 1: nineties that you can get from the Office of Labor Management.

2429
02:33:10,760 --> 02:33:14,080
Speaker 1: You google them and they'll figure you can search for

2430
02:33:14,120 --> 02:33:18,600
Speaker 1: your own union and you get to see the union finances.

2431
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:20,680
Speaker 1: And we found out that there's like forty two million

2432
02:33:20,720 --> 02:33:23,800
Speaker 1: dollars that our union chief in the bank account. And

2433
02:33:23,879 --> 02:33:28,480
Speaker 1: this goes to there was an article it wasn't Jacobin,

2434
02:33:28,520 --> 02:33:31,720
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about, like the financialization of unions and

2435
02:33:31,959 --> 02:33:34,280
Speaker 1: for like forty two million dollars, what is that? It's

2436
02:33:34,480 --> 02:33:36,520
Speaker 1: like and they you know, unions will practice like, oh,

2437
02:33:36,560 --> 02:33:38,640
Speaker 1: we've got a forty two million dollars war chest, but like,

2438
02:33:38,680 --> 02:33:40,720
Speaker 1: what are we spending that forty two million dollars on

2439
02:33:41,800 --> 02:33:44,840
Speaker 1: is it to like fight arbitrations and constantly be making

2440
02:33:44,879 --> 02:33:47,800
Speaker 1: like our like working conditions better and taking fights to

2441
02:33:47,800 --> 02:33:50,600
Speaker 1: the bosses. It's like, no, Actually, what they're doing is

2442
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:54,279
Speaker 1: they're spending that money on settling unfair labor practice claims,

2443
02:33:54,280 --> 02:33:58,199
Speaker 1: so they don't actually officially stick. So the war chests

2444
02:33:58,240 --> 02:34:00,920
Speaker 1: and even against the you know, isn't to go to

2445
02:34:01,000 --> 02:34:04,040
Speaker 1: war against our you know, supposed you know, I mean

2446
02:34:04,440 --> 02:34:06,680
Speaker 1: to go to war against management. It's to go to

2447
02:34:06,800 --> 02:34:10,360
Speaker 1: war against kind of us. When you think about it,

2448
02:34:10,360 --> 02:34:12,800
Speaker 1: it's just it's just so wild when you start digging

2449
02:34:12,800 --> 02:34:15,840
Speaker 1: into this stuff, it's just crazy. Um, Eric, you want

2450
02:34:15,840 --> 02:34:20,960
Speaker 1: to tell them about the Office of Oakland. Yeah, so

2451
02:34:21,240 --> 02:34:24,640
Speaker 1: obviously we're in the heart of the empire. Um. You know,

2452
02:34:24,720 --> 02:34:28,360
Speaker 1: I live of just a few miles from the CNA

2453
02:34:28,440 --> 02:34:32,440
Speaker 1: headquarters and I've been there many times prior to the pandemic, um,

2454
02:34:33,120 --> 02:34:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I have taken part in lobbying in Washington,

2455
02:34:38,200 --> 02:34:41,920
Speaker 1: DC on behalf of the union. You know, nurses from

2456
02:34:41,959 --> 02:34:44,960
Speaker 1: all across the country that are in the union go

2457
02:34:45,040 --> 02:34:49,400
Speaker 1: to DC and we lobby for uh, you know, not

2458
02:34:49,440 --> 02:34:52,840
Speaker 1: only for single payer UH and medicare for all but

2459
02:34:53,840 --> 02:34:58,240
Speaker 1: you know, individual bills that will benefit nurses across the country,

2460
02:34:58,320 --> 02:35:02,360
Speaker 1: whether they're in the union or not. And you know,

2461
02:35:02,600 --> 02:35:05,680
Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with it. I've lobbied in Sacramento, and

2462
02:35:05,720 --> 02:35:09,520
Speaker 1: I've bent to the NNU convention in Minnesota. So I've

2463
02:35:09,560 --> 02:35:12,320
Speaker 1: met a lot of nurses across our union. In fact,

2464
02:35:12,879 --> 02:35:16,440
Speaker 1: it's one of the when you do that, that's about

2465
02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:18,960
Speaker 1: the only time you get to reach out and see

2466
02:35:19,040 --> 02:35:23,760
Speaker 1: other union members. One of the things I will tell

2467
02:35:23,800 --> 02:35:27,440
Speaker 1: you that John and I and the person that's not

2468
02:35:27,560 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 1: on the call right now is Mark Goodick. He is

2469
02:35:30,560 --> 02:35:33,800
Speaker 1: an American citizen now, but he was a Canadian nurse

2470
02:35:33,920 --> 02:35:38,360
Speaker 1: before and he is right now working on our campaign

2471
02:35:38,520 --> 02:35:44,680
Speaker 1: video to introduce us to a broader audience. And that's

2472
02:35:44,680 --> 02:35:48,959
Speaker 1: why he's not on the call tonight. We should be

2473
02:35:50,320 --> 02:35:55,560
Speaker 1: intermingling and talking with other nurses across the country. I

2474
02:35:55,600 --> 02:35:59,320
Speaker 1: should not be siloed here in Oakland and not knowing

2475
02:36:00,080 --> 02:36:05,720
Speaker 1: that what a nurse is doing in Texas. And yeah,

2476
02:36:05,840 --> 02:36:09,640
Speaker 1: we need to be part of our pledges that we

2477
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:16,160
Speaker 1: need to join hands across this country. Every nurse needs

2478
02:36:16,160 --> 02:36:20,200
Speaker 1: to see. We need to digitalize our contract. We need

2479
02:36:20,240 --> 02:36:24,879
Speaker 1: to see University of Chicago's contract digitalized. We need to

2480
02:36:24,920 --> 02:36:27,880
Speaker 1: be sharing our contracts so we know what good things

2481
02:36:27,920 --> 02:36:31,119
Speaker 1: that maybe they got in Texas, or what good things

2482
02:36:31,120 --> 02:36:33,760
Speaker 1: they got at the University of Chicago, or what good

2483
02:36:33,760 --> 02:36:36,320
Speaker 1: things we have in our contract. We need to see

2484
02:36:36,320 --> 02:36:39,200
Speaker 1: that nurses can say, hey, I want that language. We

2485
02:36:39,240 --> 02:36:41,320
Speaker 1: need to be sharing that. I don't know why it's

2486
02:36:41,360 --> 02:36:45,640
Speaker 1: not happening or why it's just at the upper tiers

2487
02:36:45,680 --> 02:36:49,120
Speaker 1: of union management that they see these things, but we

2488
02:36:50,160 --> 02:36:55,680
Speaker 1: need to be joined together. No more siloing nurses. You know,

2489
02:36:55,840 --> 02:37:01,360
Speaker 1: altivates the nurses stay in your lane, Kaiser, stay in

2490
02:37:01,400 --> 02:37:05,320
Speaker 1: your lane, University of Chicago staying You're like, no, no no, no, no.

2491
02:37:05,400 --> 02:37:11,880
Speaker 1: We need to be one fighting body for the betterment

2492
02:37:11,959 --> 02:37:16,640
Speaker 1: of nurses. Uh doubt. You know, it's amazing when you

2493
02:37:16,720 --> 02:37:21,160
Speaker 1: find out that we have a beautiful building that the

2494
02:37:21,280 --> 02:37:25,400
Speaker 1: union purchased in downtown Oakland. Um. You know, they only

2495
02:37:25,440 --> 02:37:27,960
Speaker 1: occupy a few floors of it and they rent out

2496
02:37:28,000 --> 02:37:33,439
Speaker 1: the rest, and you know what, it is a fabulous

2497
02:37:33,440 --> 02:37:36,440
Speaker 1: building and it would be great for it to be

2498
02:37:36,480 --> 02:37:41,080
Speaker 1: a headquarters where we're we're not just fighting and lobbying

2499
02:37:41,160 --> 02:37:48,200
Speaker 1: for Democratic politicians, but we're actually fighting for nurses at

2500
02:37:48,200 --> 02:37:52,920
Speaker 1: the bedside and that's what you know. Our whole mission

2501
02:37:53,040 --> 02:37:54,879
Speaker 1: is that we're going to be running for is for

2502
02:37:54,959 --> 02:38:00,080
Speaker 1: the council presidents. We need to take the macro focus

2503
02:38:00,120 --> 02:38:03,880
Speaker 1: down to what is happening at the bedside for every

2504
02:38:03,959 --> 02:38:07,039
Speaker 1: nurse across the country and make the change for the

2505
02:38:07,080 --> 02:38:11,760
Speaker 1: better for them. And that's the big difference here. I'm

2506
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:15,879
Speaker 1: all for an activist union and I think and we

2507
02:38:15,959 --> 02:38:18,960
Speaker 1: have been the union is active, and you know climate

2508
02:38:19,040 --> 02:38:22,640
Speaker 1: change and you know how the environment affects the community.

2509
02:38:23,840 --> 02:38:27,720
Speaker 1: These things are important, but it's more important that we

2510
02:38:28,240 --> 02:38:31,440
Speaker 1: take care of the nurses at the bedside and offer

2511
02:38:31,480 --> 02:38:34,760
Speaker 1: opportunities for those nurses who want to be involved to

2512
02:38:34,959 --> 02:38:38,320
Speaker 1: make the community better. We need to have those resources

2513
02:38:38,320 --> 02:38:41,760
Speaker 1: available for them. And if we make nurses lives at

2514
02:38:41,760 --> 02:38:45,039
Speaker 1: the bedside better, we're going to have more nurses available

2515
02:38:45,080 --> 02:38:48,200
Speaker 1: to make the community better. And that's what we need

2516
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:52,280
Speaker 1: to be working on. It is a it is going

2517
02:38:52,320 --> 02:38:59,160
Speaker 1: to be a fight. I can't be more more honest

2518
02:38:59,200 --> 02:39:04,080
Speaker 1: than to tell you we are David versus Goliath. We

2519
02:39:04,240 --> 02:39:12,000
Speaker 1: are four nurses who really have no big national exposure.

2520
02:39:12,520 --> 02:39:15,400
Speaker 1: But the most important thing we have is that we're

2521
02:39:15,440 --> 02:39:20,640
Speaker 1: bedside nurses and we know what's important for bedside nurses.

2522
02:39:21,280 --> 02:39:23,640
Speaker 1: I do want to say, like, there's four of us

2523
02:39:23,720 --> 02:39:27,600
Speaker 1: who are running for the for the council presidents, but

2524
02:39:28,240 --> 02:39:30,760
Speaker 1: we would not be even talking to you if we

2525
02:39:30,800 --> 02:39:35,480
Speaker 1: didn't have like at least one hundred nurses all over

2526
02:39:35,800 --> 02:39:38,600
Speaker 1: like the hospitals that we're based in, like doing the

2527
02:39:38,600 --> 02:39:42,080
Speaker 1: work of building our campaign. So I do want to

2528
02:39:42,120 --> 02:39:45,960
Speaker 1: point out that, like, because like our slate is like

2529
02:39:46,440 --> 02:39:49,760
Speaker 1: three white guys and it's Raina, and Raina is like

2530
02:39:50,040 --> 02:39:54,160
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that we're not that

2531
02:39:54,440 --> 02:39:57,560
Speaker 1: it's we made a cho The choice that we made

2532
02:39:57,720 --> 02:40:00,680
Speaker 1: was not you know, us coming to together as four

2533
02:40:00,680 --> 02:40:03,360
Speaker 1: individuals being like we should fix the union by ourselves.

2534
02:40:03,840 --> 02:40:07,360
Speaker 1: It was this we keep mentioning labor notes, there's a

2535
02:40:07,400 --> 02:40:10,320
Speaker 1: healthcare worker chat with a fair number of nurses in

2536
02:40:10,360 --> 02:40:14,240
Speaker 1: our union. And we noticed that there was an election

2537
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:16,280
Speaker 1: coming up. And this is also at the time when

2538
02:40:16,879 --> 02:40:20,039
Speaker 1: both altbates was having their issues. And then in Cook

2539
02:40:20,040 --> 02:40:24,840
Speaker 1: County we had a particularly traumatic firing of a very

2540
02:40:24,879 --> 02:40:32,240
Speaker 1: popular staffer who without any without any input from the

2541
02:40:32,400 --> 02:40:36,520
Speaker 1: local nurses or elected local nurse leadership. And we got

2542
02:40:36,560 --> 02:40:38,160
Speaker 1: together and we all were like, what are we going

2543
02:40:38,240 --> 02:40:42,360
Speaker 1: to do this is crazy, and we had people like

2544
02:40:42,440 --> 02:40:44,760
Speaker 1: we are like, well, who would do Like, we have

2545
02:40:44,840 --> 02:40:47,480
Speaker 1: this opportunity and if we run as a slate, we

2546
02:40:47,520 --> 02:40:50,440
Speaker 1: can do things like get access to we can send

2547
02:40:50,480 --> 02:40:53,680
Speaker 1: emails out to other nurses and break down those silos

2548
02:40:53,720 --> 02:40:58,560
Speaker 1: connect nurses from across the country. And we're like, well,

2549
02:40:58,600 --> 02:41:01,520
Speaker 1: if we don't do anything, we're kind of stuck in

2550
02:41:01,560 --> 02:41:04,160
Speaker 1: this kind of like square one. You know, a few

2551
02:41:04,200 --> 02:41:08,800
Speaker 1: small hospitals talking to each other, not small, but you know,

2552
02:41:08,920 --> 02:41:11,880
Speaker 1: a few hospitals talking to each other, still struggling against

2553
02:41:11,959 --> 02:41:13,960
Speaker 1: like these kind of silos that have been constructed for

2554
02:41:14,040 --> 02:41:17,720
Speaker 1: us by staff. And we had a vote and there

2555
02:41:17,800 --> 02:41:21,280
Speaker 1: was you know, over twenty nurses all together raise their

2556
02:41:21,280 --> 02:41:24,160
Speaker 1: hands and where like, we could do this with an

2557
02:41:24,200 --> 02:41:27,320
Speaker 1: imperfect group of people that we recognize asn't like the

2558
02:41:27,760 --> 02:41:31,640
Speaker 1: fully representative of everyone in the union, but are fully

2559
02:41:31,640 --> 02:41:36,360
Speaker 1: committed to democratizing the union, or we could sit and wait.

2560
02:41:36,640 --> 02:41:40,680
Speaker 1: And a nurse who had been in the union for

2561
02:41:40,720 --> 02:41:43,680
Speaker 1: a very long time and she's now retired, said, if

2562
02:41:43,720 --> 02:41:45,920
Speaker 1: you all don't take this chance, you don't know what

2563
02:41:45,959 --> 02:41:48,760
Speaker 1: could happen in you know, three years from now union

2564
02:41:48,800 --> 02:41:52,720
Speaker 1: could be completely different and so two thirds of everyone

2565
02:41:52,760 --> 02:41:55,240
Speaker 1: in that call said it's time to go, and we

2566
02:41:55,320 --> 02:41:58,440
Speaker 1: don't care. We would rather that you run and take

2567
02:41:58,480 --> 02:42:02,120
Speaker 1: that swing and maybe get big for all of us.

2568
02:42:02,640 --> 02:42:06,680
Speaker 1: So a big part of what we're doing is got

2569
02:42:06,760 --> 02:42:09,920
Speaker 1: like I've got a meeting with you know, Cook County

2570
02:42:10,000 --> 02:42:13,120
Speaker 1: nurses on Thursday, and they're all basically going to come

2571
02:42:13,120 --> 02:42:14,680
Speaker 1: to me and tell me all the ship that I

2572
02:42:14,720 --> 02:42:18,720
Speaker 1: need to do for them, not the other way around.

2573
02:42:19,480 --> 02:42:24,320
Speaker 1: When you're the rank and file leadership, you know, it's

2574
02:42:24,360 --> 02:42:27,080
Speaker 1: like taking that pyramid and you invert it, right. The

2575
02:42:27,160 --> 02:42:31,440
Speaker 1: people who are matter the most are the regular bedside nurses,

2576
02:42:31,959 --> 02:42:35,920
Speaker 1: And all we can do, as like people who step

2577
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:38,600
Speaker 1: up into that role is we take that. We take

2578
02:42:38,680 --> 02:42:42,160
Speaker 1: that heat and put ourselves out there so that we

2579
02:42:42,200 --> 02:42:45,280
Speaker 1: can enact what our coworkers are asking us for. I

2580
02:42:45,360 --> 02:42:48,960
Speaker 1: literally have co workers walking up to me completely unsolicited.

2581
02:42:49,040 --> 02:42:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm a very like I'm not walking around telling I

2582
02:42:51,320 --> 02:42:53,680
Speaker 1: like I told a few people up front in the beginning,

2583
02:42:53,720 --> 02:42:55,640
Speaker 1: because I was like, all right, you're about to see

2584
02:42:55,640 --> 02:42:57,879
Speaker 1: my face on some flyers, let me tell you why.

2585
02:42:59,040 --> 02:43:02,720
Speaker 1: But I now have coworkers coming to me and they're like, John,

2586
02:43:02,720 --> 02:43:05,320
Speaker 1: you've got to tell me what's going on because I

2587
02:43:05,400 --> 02:43:06,800
Speaker 1: heard a little bit about it and I need to

2588
02:43:06,840 --> 02:43:11,080
Speaker 1: help you. I'm just like, okay, it's very it's like

2589
02:43:11,480 --> 02:43:13,240
Speaker 1: it's a little bit like a drug. But I have

2590
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:16,400
Speaker 1: to be careful because like I like, I can't let

2591
02:43:16,440 --> 02:43:19,160
Speaker 1: this whole thing like none of this. We all have

2592
02:43:19,200 --> 02:43:22,240
Speaker 1: to stay humble as they're doing this. Because all four

2593
02:43:22,280 --> 02:43:25,560
Speaker 1: of us, John, all four of us were volunteering to

2594
02:43:25,600 --> 02:43:30,960
Speaker 1: help other people to run exactly. We were like, okay,

2595
02:43:31,000 --> 02:43:35,280
Speaker 1: we're here, you know, John, are raining on myself, We're

2596
02:43:35,400 --> 02:43:38,560
Speaker 1: here to help you. Guys who's running now, I'm going

2597
02:43:38,640 --> 02:43:41,640
Speaker 1: to help you. We're gonna help you. And then it's

2598
02:43:41,680 --> 02:43:46,959
Speaker 1: like their crickets, you know, and it's like and it

2599
02:43:47,000 --> 02:43:50,000
Speaker 1: goes to show exactly what happened. It goes to show

2600
02:43:50,040 --> 02:43:53,440
Speaker 1: how impoverished the internal democracy of our union is that

2601
02:43:53,560 --> 02:43:58,160
Speaker 1: people who are leaders already did not feel comfortable or

2602
02:43:58,440 --> 02:44:01,920
Speaker 1: prepared to take on that kind of leadership role. You know,

2603
02:44:01,959 --> 02:44:04,439
Speaker 1: these are nurses who have been in our union for decades,

2604
02:44:05,720 --> 02:44:10,439
Speaker 1: who are taking fights to their bosses all the time already,

2605
02:44:10,760 --> 02:44:13,080
Speaker 1: and they did not feel that they knew enough about

2606
02:44:13,080 --> 02:44:18,800
Speaker 1: the union. Because there's an intentional I believe like obscuring

2607
02:44:18,920 --> 02:44:22,920
Speaker 1: of how the union works. And that's like how you

2608
02:44:23,040 --> 02:44:25,000
Speaker 1: end up with a situation where people are like, well,

2609
02:44:25,040 --> 02:44:27,360
Speaker 1: I guess we're just kicking the door down for all

2610
02:44:27,400 --> 02:44:30,000
Speaker 1: these people who we know will be doing it better

2611
02:44:30,160 --> 02:44:32,360
Speaker 1: when when we get it situated so that they can

2612
02:44:32,400 --> 02:44:35,800
Speaker 1: do it better. It's amazing though, to tell us that

2613
02:44:36,160 --> 02:44:39,560
Speaker 1: an America and History class, or you have Civics class,

2614
02:44:39,840 --> 02:44:42,520
Speaker 1: you learn about the US government, right, you know how

2615
02:44:42,560 --> 02:44:46,280
Speaker 1: it functions, how it runs. But when it comes to

2616
02:44:46,320 --> 02:44:49,600
Speaker 1: our union, we were all asking each other. You know,

2617
02:44:49,640 --> 02:44:55,440
Speaker 1: we're putting pieces together. Oh wait, I know the council presidents. Yeah, well,

2618
02:44:55,480 --> 02:44:58,039
Speaker 1: how does this person fit into it? How does the

2619
02:44:58,120 --> 02:45:01,960
Speaker 1: board fit into this? Well does the election run? How

2620
02:45:02,080 --> 02:45:05,320
Speaker 1: is it done? We had no We had to search

2621
02:45:05,440 --> 02:45:08,960
Speaker 1: out the answers. We had to call all sorts of people,

2622
02:45:09,200 --> 02:45:12,680
Speaker 1: and we were only getting bits and pieces. There should

2623
02:45:12,720 --> 02:45:16,359
Speaker 1: be a clear outline of how you run a democracy

2624
02:45:16,600 --> 02:45:20,160
Speaker 1: and a union. I mean, it shouldn't even be that difficult.

2625
02:45:20,360 --> 02:45:24,240
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there'd be specific rules for the union,

2626
02:45:24,600 --> 02:45:28,840
Speaker 1: but they shouldn't be occluded. They should be you know,

2627
02:45:28,879 --> 02:45:33,240
Speaker 1: there shouldn't be occulted from the members. We should clearly

2628
02:45:33,320 --> 02:45:39,840
Speaker 1: know how you step forward to be a more of

2629
02:45:39,879 --> 02:45:42,800
Speaker 1: a contributing member to the union to run and to

2630
02:45:42,920 --> 02:45:46,000
Speaker 1: serve the others in the union. And that was an

2631
02:45:46,040 --> 02:45:51,760
Speaker 1: amazing thing that we're finding out amongst each other. It's like, wow,

2632
02:45:51,280 --> 02:45:54,480
Speaker 1: how how does our union run? I mean, how why

2633
02:45:54,560 --> 02:45:58,000
Speaker 1: is it difficult to find out these things? And I

2634
02:45:58,000 --> 02:46:01,640
Speaker 1: mean I don't think it's insurmountable for us. I don't

2635
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:05,360
Speaker 1: think that should disqualify us. I don't think if we

2636
02:46:05,400 --> 02:46:08,440
Speaker 1: can step in and do healthcare in a pandemic, we

2637
02:46:08,480 --> 02:46:13,200
Speaker 1: can very easily learn how to how the union functions

2638
02:46:13,760 --> 02:46:17,879
Speaker 1: and a quick, a quick little tutorial. I don't think

2639
02:46:17,920 --> 02:46:21,000
Speaker 1: that's going to be a big deal for us. But yeah,

2640
02:46:21,040 --> 02:46:24,360
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing if we're talking about democracy and the union.

2641
02:46:24,959 --> 02:46:29,400
Speaker 1: How is it that it takes I mean to find

2642
02:46:29,440 --> 02:46:31,840
Speaker 1: the buy laws. We can all tell you it took

2643
02:46:32,000 --> 02:46:34,480
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of effort to find the by laws

2644
02:46:34,800 --> 02:46:37,560
Speaker 1: that are runs by hold on, hold on, let me

2645
02:46:37,560 --> 02:46:40,080
Speaker 1: tell sorry about the by laws. So we have a

2646
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:44,280
Speaker 1: nurse in Chicago who decided to make a pain of

2647
02:46:44,320 --> 02:46:47,520
Speaker 1: themselves about how to get the by laws and then

2648
02:46:47,480 --> 02:46:50,080
Speaker 1: instead they went to the union, Like I want to

2649
02:46:50,080 --> 02:46:51,360
Speaker 1: see the by laws. I want to see the by

2650
02:46:51,440 --> 02:46:53,760
Speaker 1: laws and they were lists like you know, like and

2651
02:46:53,840 --> 02:46:58,280
Speaker 1: they give them the runaround, and eventually they gave him.

2652
02:46:58,480 --> 02:47:01,720
Speaker 1: He got personally to the liver envelope that was like

2653
02:47:02,040 --> 02:47:05,320
Speaker 1: a photocopy of a photocopy of photocopy of the by laws.

2654
02:47:07,080 --> 02:47:09,840
Speaker 1: And it's funny because the legally, the by laws are

2655
02:47:09,840 --> 02:47:12,039
Speaker 1: all spops to be filed with the federal government. And

2656
02:47:12,400 --> 02:47:15,560
Speaker 1: like from our pressure and organizing to figure out how

2657
02:47:15,560 --> 02:47:17,760
Speaker 1: our union worked, they had to publish the newest set

2658
02:47:17,760 --> 02:47:22,160
Speaker 1: of by laws and on the federal reporting websites. UM.

2659
02:47:22,720 --> 02:47:25,840
Speaker 1: I was in Oakland in twenty nineteen for the Global

2660
02:47:25,879 --> 02:47:28,080
Speaker 1: Nurse Assembly and there was an after party and it

2661
02:47:28,240 --> 02:47:30,080
Speaker 1: was a bunch of staffers and like, you know, some

2662
02:47:30,240 --> 02:47:33,720
Speaker 1: nurses and you know, just chit chatting, and I was like, man,

2663
02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:35,959
Speaker 1: be really good. I told the story about you know,

2664
02:47:35,959 --> 02:47:39,160
Speaker 1: like the you know, the nurse you tried to get

2665
02:47:39,240 --> 02:47:41,440
Speaker 1: by finally got a copy of the by laws to

2666
02:47:41,800 --> 02:47:43,880
Speaker 1: you know, some of these One of these staffers like, man,

2667
02:47:43,879 --> 02:47:46,360
Speaker 1: it'd be really great if we, you know, could figure

2668
02:47:46,360 --> 02:47:49,119
Speaker 1: out how are you know, getting hints for other union works,

2669
02:47:49,120 --> 02:47:51,760
Speaker 1: and just as like good luck with that, and they

2670
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:57,720
Speaker 1: just disappeared ways I'm not. Yeah, I mean because because

2671
02:47:57,800 --> 02:48:01,119
Speaker 1: what we're finding is to add any staff that helped

2672
02:48:01,520 --> 02:48:06,160
Speaker 1: nurses learn how the union works find themselves out of

2673
02:48:06,160 --> 02:48:10,200
Speaker 1: a job. Like that's what's really that's what really sketches

2674
02:48:10,200 --> 02:48:13,600
Speaker 1: everyone out is when like people, I mean, you all

2675
02:48:13,600 --> 02:48:17,800
Speaker 1: can tell tell the story about the staffer who like

2676
02:48:19,000 --> 02:48:24,800
Speaker 1: got ran afoul. So I will tell you that there

2677
02:48:24,840 --> 02:48:29,120
Speaker 1: are a lot of great labor reps, a lot of

2678
02:48:29,200 --> 02:48:32,960
Speaker 1: really great people out there. But to tell you that

2679
02:48:33,600 --> 02:48:37,800
Speaker 1: they would communicate with us, because obviously I told you

2680
02:48:37,840 --> 02:48:40,039
Speaker 1: I've done all these other actions. So I know a

2681
02:48:40,040 --> 02:48:43,400
Speaker 1: lot of people and they have my personal number just

2682
02:48:43,400 --> 02:48:45,840
Speaker 1: because we would. You know, when we're in other cities,

2683
02:48:45,879 --> 02:48:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, you text each other and hey, we're at

2684
02:48:49,560 --> 02:48:52,840
Speaker 1: this place, now where do we meet you? Etc. So

2685
02:48:53,280 --> 02:48:58,080
Speaker 1: we were getting texts from some labor reps in the

2686
02:48:58,200 --> 02:49:01,360
Speaker 1: union saying, you know, you guys need to stand tall.

2687
02:49:02,520 --> 02:49:05,840
Speaker 1: There are a lot of us supporting you. We can't

2688
02:49:05,840 --> 02:49:10,760
Speaker 1: come out and publicly support you because we'll get fired. What. So, yeah,

2689
02:49:10,800 --> 02:49:13,680
Speaker 1: so we were getting these texts from the labor reps

2690
02:49:13,680 --> 02:49:16,400
Speaker 1: saying what they're doing to you is wrong, and they

2691
02:49:16,400 --> 02:49:22,119
Speaker 1: were you know, we actually got together and we we

2692
02:49:22,160 --> 02:49:25,119
Speaker 1: wanted to go out on strike in October, and we

2693
02:49:25,120 --> 02:49:30,000
Speaker 1: were getting this runaround from a group of this I

2694
02:49:30,040 --> 02:49:33,160
Speaker 1: thought they were it was just an inner cabal. Little

2695
02:49:33,200 --> 02:49:36,040
Speaker 1: did I know that it probably extends throughout the you know,

2696
02:49:36,120 --> 02:49:39,880
Speaker 1: the organization, but that they were telling us that there

2697
02:49:39,920 --> 02:49:42,760
Speaker 1: was no need for a strike, and it seemed they

2698
02:49:42,800 --> 02:49:45,760
Speaker 1: were trying to just pressure us into taking a pretty

2699
02:49:46,920 --> 02:49:54,200
Speaker 1: low ball contract. And so, uh, we're getting push you know,

2700
02:49:54,200 --> 02:49:57,640
Speaker 1: the good labor reps are texting us like stick it,

2701
02:49:57,879 --> 02:50:01,440
Speaker 1: stick to it, stick to it. And we actually got

2702
02:50:01,440 --> 02:50:04,680
Speaker 1: a postcard campaign and we actually drove up to the

2703
02:50:04,720 --> 02:50:09,520
Speaker 1: executive director's house in Sacramento, knocked on our door and

2704
02:50:09,600 --> 02:50:14,160
Speaker 1: delivered five hundred some postcards that we organized on our own,

2705
02:50:14,280 --> 02:50:17,720
Speaker 1: not with you know, it wasn't a union driven, it

2706
02:50:17,800 --> 02:50:22,360
Speaker 1: was just nurses union, nurses driven, and we delivered postcards

2707
02:50:22,400 --> 02:50:26,360
Speaker 1: saying we want to go out on strike, and the union,

2708
02:50:26,400 --> 02:50:28,160
Speaker 1: of course still fought us on it, but we were

2709
02:50:28,160 --> 02:50:31,800
Speaker 1: allowed to go out on strike. And there's a video

2710
02:50:31,800 --> 02:50:36,039
Speaker 1: of us confronting the executive director at our strike line

2711
02:50:36,879 --> 02:50:40,120
Speaker 1: asking her why we were gagged, why the mediator gagged us,

2712
02:50:40,120 --> 02:50:43,480
Speaker 1: and she clearly didn't know what was going on. She said,

2713
02:50:44,200 --> 02:50:46,600
Speaker 1: the mediator wouldn't gag you. Why would they gag you?

2714
02:50:47,280 --> 02:50:50,240
Speaker 1: So she didn't even know what was going on at

2715
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:54,560
Speaker 1: our table. We then got we were contacted and they

2716
02:50:54,680 --> 02:50:58,560
Speaker 1: we were told, oh my god, they're running around like

2717
02:50:58,680 --> 02:51:02,760
Speaker 1: chickens with their heads at all because they're petrified that

2718
02:51:02,840 --> 02:51:05,600
Speaker 1: they might use their jobs, that they've been exposed to

2719
02:51:05,720 --> 02:51:09,640
Speaker 1: what they've been doing to you. And so one of

2720
02:51:09,640 --> 02:51:13,600
Speaker 1: the labor reps that used to work for us, she

2721
02:51:13,720 --> 02:51:16,680
Speaker 1: used to be at our hospital, and then she moved

2722
02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:22,560
Speaker 1: along and she was at Sutter Cilano and her nurses

2723
02:51:22,560 --> 02:51:25,480
Speaker 1: were asking, hey, did you see this video of this

2724
02:51:25,520 --> 02:51:29,880
Speaker 1: speech Eric made on this you know, at the strike line.

2725
02:51:30,959 --> 02:51:35,119
Speaker 1: And it was a speech where I kind of excoriated

2726
02:51:35,160 --> 02:51:38,400
Speaker 1: the union about why they would gag us, that that

2727
02:51:38,600 --> 02:51:41,240
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, we needed to be united and we

2728
02:51:41,320 --> 02:51:45,320
Speaker 1: didn't need a union, you know, working behind our back.

2729
02:51:45,640 --> 02:51:50,400
Speaker 1: They needed to stand with us. And so she says, well,

2730
02:51:50,480 --> 02:51:53,120
Speaker 1: let's see. So she was looking at the video on

2731
02:51:53,200 --> 02:51:59,440
Speaker 1: her union cell phone and with the negotiators, nurse negotiators

2732
02:51:59,560 --> 02:52:02,560
Speaker 1: at her hospitals at our Salana who were also in

2733
02:52:02,600 --> 02:52:05,640
Speaker 1: negotiations with us, that we weren't supposed to talk to

2734
02:52:06,320 --> 02:52:10,600
Speaker 1: because you know, the mediator forbade us. So she's showing

2735
02:52:10,640 --> 02:52:16,400
Speaker 1: the video and they thought because she was formerly in

2736
02:52:16,480 --> 02:52:19,840
Speaker 1: our hospital, that she was our inside scoop for all

2737
02:52:19,920 --> 02:52:23,600
Speaker 1: this information. What I can swear to God and take

2738
02:52:23,640 --> 02:52:27,400
Speaker 1: a lie detector test. I had one exchange with her

2739
02:52:28,080 --> 02:52:32,439
Speaker 1: during like the twenty one months that we were negotiating,

2740
02:52:32,920 --> 02:52:36,600
Speaker 1: and it was at a joint Bargaining Council meeting on

2741
02:52:36,720 --> 02:52:41,360
Speaker 1: zoom where they kept the union kept muting us on

2742
02:52:41,560 --> 02:52:44,800
Speaker 1: zoom and prevent and preventing us from writing in the

2743
02:52:44,920 --> 02:52:46,600
Speaker 1: chat because we were saying we want to go out

2744
02:52:46,640 --> 02:52:48,720
Speaker 1: on strike, we want to go out on strike, and

2745
02:52:48,840 --> 02:52:50,600
Speaker 1: next thing you know, we would find out we couldn't

2746
02:52:50,640 --> 02:52:54,280
Speaker 1: type in the in the chat. So I texted her

2747
02:52:54,320 --> 02:52:58,119
Speaker 1: and says, can you see this. I'm trying to write

2748
02:52:58,120 --> 02:53:00,560
Speaker 1: in the chat and I'm forbidden from writing in the chat.

2749
02:53:00,600 --> 02:53:04,320
Speaker 1: They muted me, they I can't type in and she goes,

2750
02:53:04,360 --> 02:53:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm feel for you, buddy, I feel for you. That

2751
02:53:06,879 --> 02:53:10,360
Speaker 1: was my only exchange with her that caused her and

2752
02:53:10,520 --> 02:53:14,160
Speaker 1: the fact that her nurses asked her to look at

2753
02:53:14,160 --> 02:53:17,200
Speaker 1: this video with them, that's what cost her her job.

2754
02:53:18,080 --> 02:53:22,400
Speaker 1: She's it was. It was clearly guilt by association and

2755
02:53:22,560 --> 02:53:26,920
Speaker 1: the charges were outrageous for her. We had labor reps

2756
02:53:27,040 --> 02:53:32,200
Speaker 1: leave because they just felt that it was they couldn't

2757
02:53:32,240 --> 02:53:36,920
Speaker 1: live with themselves with what they were doing to the nurses.

2758
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:40,960
Speaker 1: It was incredible for them that they're here to work

2759
02:53:41,080 --> 02:53:43,640
Speaker 1: for the nurses, They're here to work for the most

2760
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:48,800
Speaker 1: progressive union in the country, and it was a fraud.

2761
02:53:49,520 --> 02:53:52,440
Speaker 1: That's been like a big, like consistent problem is that

2762
02:53:52,480 --> 02:53:54,720
Speaker 1: we know that they are busting their own Like the

2763
02:53:54,760 --> 02:53:58,640
Speaker 1: staff are supposed to have a union. The staff have

2764
02:53:58,720 --> 02:54:02,680
Speaker 1: their own contract, and that's a normal thing inside unions, right, yeah,

2765
02:54:02,720 --> 02:54:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, to keep you know, we believe in or

2766
02:54:05,959 --> 02:54:08,960
Speaker 1: that every worker who you know, works for wages should

2767
02:54:09,000 --> 02:54:12,320
Speaker 1: be in a union. And we have seen time and

2768
02:54:12,360 --> 02:54:17,000
Speaker 1: again that like the like the contracts, that they've busted

2769
02:54:17,000 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 1: their own unions. So like that they've there was a

2770
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:25,640
Speaker 1: slate that was run of nurses in um Our, not

2771
02:54:25,840 --> 02:54:29,320
Speaker 1: nurses of the staffers. I think it was in twenty

2772
02:54:29,360 --> 02:54:32,320
Speaker 1: twenty one where they were like trying to get something

2773
02:54:32,360 --> 02:54:36,640
Speaker 1: together to change you know, things inside you know, how

2774
02:54:36,680 --> 02:54:41,680
Speaker 1: they relate to their management and and several of those

2775
02:54:41,800 --> 02:54:47,440
Speaker 1: uh staffers were basically illegally fired Jesus. So this is

2776
02:54:47,480 --> 02:54:49,560
Speaker 1: like I mean, and I know you keep saying Jesus

2777
02:54:49,600 --> 02:54:53,200
Speaker 1: a lot, but like there's a reason me, you know me,

2778
02:54:53,800 --> 02:54:56,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be running into this sort of situation if

2779
02:54:56,640 --> 02:55:00,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't like so like out of out of this world.

2780
02:55:00,879 --> 02:55:03,720
Speaker 1: The stories that we hear, and they're the same. This

2781
02:55:03,800 --> 02:55:07,119
Speaker 1: is what's disturbing, is it? And it's because the union

2782
02:55:07,360 --> 02:55:09,800
Speaker 1: is baited. Like I was just talking to a lawyer today.

2783
02:55:10,280 --> 02:55:12,600
Speaker 1: She was looking over the by laws of our union

2784
02:55:12,640 --> 02:55:14,840
Speaker 1: and she's like, this is set up like a local

2785
02:55:15,640 --> 02:55:19,560
Speaker 1: like it's one big local union. It's got like a

2786
02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:22,920
Speaker 1: tiny little committee of people who are making the decisions

2787
02:55:22,959 --> 02:55:27,320
Speaker 1: that effect or we believe that it's mostly the director

2788
02:55:27,600 --> 02:55:31,000
Speaker 1: non nurse director staff that make the decisions, but these

2789
02:55:31,000 --> 02:55:35,119
Speaker 1: four people kind of rubber stamp them and that they

2790
02:55:35,560 --> 02:55:38,680
Speaker 1: make decisions for one hundred and fifty you know, thousands

2791
02:55:38,720 --> 02:55:44,920
Speaker 1: some on nurses and it's so centralized. You know, this

2792
02:55:45,040 --> 02:55:47,760
Speaker 1: is one of the things describe as like it's almost

2793
02:55:47,760 --> 02:55:51,800
Speaker 1: irresponsible because you know, we live in you know, you know,

2794
02:55:52,200 --> 02:55:55,520
Speaker 1: crazy times, and all it takes is one wrong election

2795
02:55:55,680 --> 02:55:59,360
Speaker 1: or bad decision in Supreme court, and it would literally

2796
02:55:59,360 --> 02:56:03,280
Speaker 1: our union could be dissolved with like you know, if

2797
02:56:03,280 --> 02:56:07,760
Speaker 1: they just arrested you know, a handful of people and

2798
02:56:07,360 --> 02:56:12,640
Speaker 1: uh and froze our bank accounts. And a big part

2799
02:56:12,680 --> 02:56:16,200
Speaker 1: of our goal is to help disperse those resources out

2800
02:56:16,760 --> 02:56:20,160
Speaker 1: into foster more local leaderships so that any event that

2801
02:56:20,320 --> 02:56:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, something you know like that terrible happens like that,

2802
02:56:25,120 --> 02:56:28,560
Speaker 1: we're not caught without anything. Because the way it situated

2803
02:56:28,600 --> 02:56:33,440
Speaker 1: now is we have this massive concentration of all of

2804
02:56:33,440 --> 02:56:37,240
Speaker 1: the decision making and resources in a very small group

2805
02:56:37,240 --> 02:56:40,800
Speaker 1: of hands. And most of these people are are not

2806
02:56:40,959 --> 02:56:44,199
Speaker 1: have never been nurses, or if they've been nurses they've

2807
02:56:44,360 --> 02:56:48,320
Speaker 1: been you know, out of practice for so long that

2808
02:56:48,400 --> 02:56:50,879
Speaker 1: they wouldn't know how. I mean, maybe they could put

2809
02:56:50,879 --> 02:56:53,080
Speaker 1: band aids on. I don't need to, like, I don't

2810
02:56:53,120 --> 02:56:55,120
Speaker 1: want to disparage anybody. You know, A nurse is a nurse.

2811
02:56:55,160 --> 02:56:57,480
Speaker 1: I know nurses, you know, you learn it and you

2812
02:56:57,600 --> 02:56:59,760
Speaker 1: learn a lot of things. It's really important, great skill,

2813
02:56:59,840 --> 02:57:03,160
Speaker 1: but there's something to be in practice. If I you know,

2814
02:57:03,280 --> 02:57:06,080
Speaker 1: I can walk back into the medical issue I used

2815
02:57:06,080 --> 02:57:09,640
Speaker 1: to work in, you know now it's going on like

2816
02:57:09,720 --> 02:57:12,240
Speaker 1: five years and be the same nurse that I was

2817
02:57:12,280 --> 02:57:14,000
Speaker 1: when I was at the peak of my practice there.

2818
02:57:14,360 --> 02:57:17,440
Speaker 1: And there's a real key thing too, I think we're

2819
02:57:17,480 --> 02:57:19,640
Speaker 1: all committed. None of us are doing this because we

2820
02:57:19,680 --> 02:57:24,720
Speaker 1: want to be the face of California Nurses Association National

2821
02:57:24,800 --> 02:57:28,800
Speaker 1: Nurses United for the next twenty thirty years. We're doing

2822
02:57:28,800 --> 02:57:33,280
Speaker 1: this because we feel that there's a real value to

2823
02:57:33,600 --> 02:57:38,400
Speaker 1: there being a continual turnover in leadership, new ideas, people

2824
02:57:38,440 --> 02:57:43,240
Speaker 1: bringing in new energy. We think that nurses should have

2825
02:57:43,360 --> 02:57:46,640
Speaker 1: the opportunity to work release time so that they could

2826
02:57:46,840 --> 02:57:49,720
Speaker 1: see how the union works as staffers from the inside

2827
02:57:49,720 --> 02:57:52,280
Speaker 1: and then go back to the regular jobs. We're doing

2828
02:57:52,320 --> 02:57:55,400
Speaker 1: everything we can to like I like my job. I

2829
02:57:55,400 --> 02:57:56,800
Speaker 1: think my job is great. I don't want to leave

2830
02:57:56,840 --> 02:58:01,440
Speaker 1: my job. But doing what we can to bring our

2831
02:58:01,480 --> 02:58:07,199
Speaker 1: met our mentality as those bedside nurses to the sensibility

2832
02:58:07,200 --> 02:58:10,120
Speaker 1: of running the union. Because nursing does give you a

2833
02:58:10,120 --> 02:58:13,959
Speaker 1: lot of really powerful tools, as like you have to

2834
02:58:14,000 --> 02:58:16,640
Speaker 1: be able to listen to people. We're not listening a

2835
02:58:16,640 --> 02:58:18,160
Speaker 1: lot tonight, but you know, we've got to talk and

2836
02:58:18,200 --> 02:58:22,120
Speaker 1: get the word out. Being able to kind of see.

2837
02:58:22,440 --> 02:58:24,280
Speaker 1: A big thing we see is like, you know, you

2838
02:58:24,360 --> 02:58:27,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of people who will tell youths things

2839
02:58:27,800 --> 02:58:30,880
Speaker 1: and then they act in a different way. And that's

2840
02:58:30,879 --> 02:58:34,160
Speaker 1: a big part of nursing practices, being able to understand

2841
02:58:34,240 --> 02:58:39,039
Speaker 1: what people's real deal is. And you know, it's kind

2842
02:58:39,040 --> 02:58:40,840
Speaker 1: of that's one of the things where it's real frustrating,

2843
02:58:40,959 --> 02:58:43,960
Speaker 1: is like we know when people are lying to us,

2844
02:58:44,160 --> 02:58:47,800
Speaker 1: Like I know, we all know when, like the staff

2845
02:58:47,840 --> 02:58:51,240
Speaker 1: are lying to us. Nurses do have bullshit detectors, that's

2846
02:58:51,240 --> 02:58:55,040
Speaker 1: for sure. You know. I slept through the class in

2847
02:58:55,160 --> 02:58:57,080
Speaker 1: nursing school where they teach you how to grow eyes

2848
02:58:57,120 --> 02:59:00,480
Speaker 1: in the back of your head. The class slept through

2849
02:59:00,520 --> 02:59:02,640
Speaker 1: where they teach you to get a through arm. And

2850
02:59:02,680 --> 02:59:05,320
Speaker 1: I really regret sleeping through the class where they teach

2851
02:59:05,400 --> 02:59:09,400
Speaker 1: you how nurse mitosis like being able to asexually reproduce

2852
02:59:09,440 --> 02:59:13,000
Speaker 1: an extra nurse. But I definitely didn't sleep through the

2853
02:59:13,000 --> 02:59:15,800
Speaker 1: class where I can learn where I can see when

2854
02:59:15,959 --> 02:59:18,440
Speaker 1: someone is saying one thing and then but it's like

2855
02:59:18,760 --> 02:59:21,039
Speaker 1: what they're fucking lying to me? Yeah, And that's a

2856
02:59:21,280 --> 02:59:24,520
Speaker 1: that's like a constant theme, and that's one of the

2857
02:59:24,520 --> 02:59:26,520
Speaker 1: things that's driving a lot of our organizing is that

2858
02:59:26,600 --> 02:59:28,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people are tired of just being lied

2859
02:59:28,680 --> 02:59:32,640
Speaker 1: to by people who were paying their paychecks. And it's

2860
02:59:32,680 --> 02:59:35,920
Speaker 1: like and it's like they think that we I mean,

2861
02:59:36,040 --> 02:59:39,880
Speaker 1: we have staff informants, right, we know people inside staff

2862
02:59:39,920 --> 02:59:43,120
Speaker 1: who are allied with us. We know how they talk

2863
02:59:43,160 --> 02:59:45,880
Speaker 1: about us when we're not there, they talk about us

2864
02:59:45,879 --> 02:59:49,039
Speaker 1: like we can't figure this shit out, And it's like, motherfucker,

2865
02:59:49,080 --> 02:59:51,440
Speaker 1: I know how to keep a person alive who like

2866
02:59:51,680 --> 02:59:54,840
Speaker 1: who shouldn't be alive, Like I know how to walk

2867
02:59:54,840 --> 02:59:58,280
Speaker 1: a family through like you know, multiple family members with

2868
02:59:58,360 --> 03:00:02,119
Speaker 1: conflicting opinions through like an end of life discussion, and

2869
03:00:02,480 --> 03:00:05,000
Speaker 1: along with a doctor who can't really make up his mind,

2870
03:00:05,360 --> 03:00:07,400
Speaker 1: like you don't think it while I've got you know,

2871
03:00:07,520 --> 03:00:12,320
Speaker 1: like multiple pressors and like continuous dialysis. You don't think

2872
03:00:12,320 --> 03:00:15,000
Speaker 1: I can't figure out like when you are like telling

2873
03:00:15,200 --> 03:00:17,480
Speaker 1: us one thing and then another thing's happening. We know

2874
03:00:17,520 --> 03:00:20,480
Speaker 1: why they're canceling meetings right now. They don't want us

2875
03:00:20,480 --> 03:00:23,840
Speaker 1: talking to each other where we get that, and this

2876
03:00:23,920 --> 03:00:26,279
Speaker 1: is kind of like it's it's almost like a feminist

2877
03:00:26,280 --> 03:00:33,160
Speaker 1: practice of women talking to each other makes men nervous, right,

2878
03:00:33,720 --> 03:00:38,440
Speaker 1: And it's like nurses talking to each other makes management nervous,

2879
03:00:38,480 --> 03:00:40,680
Speaker 1: and it sure as hell is making our union nervous.

2880
03:00:41,000 --> 03:00:43,440
Speaker 1: We want our union to be encouraging nurses talking to

2881
03:00:43,480 --> 03:00:47,039
Speaker 1: each other and not like discouraging it. And anytime someone

2882
03:00:47,120 --> 03:00:49,720
Speaker 1: is discouraging people from talking to each other who have

2883
03:00:50,600 --> 03:00:54,760
Speaker 1: similar concerns, that is an immediate you know, like Eric

2884
03:00:54,879 --> 03:00:56,800
Speaker 1: was saying the red flags, it's like this is the

2885
03:00:56,879 --> 03:00:58,560
Speaker 1: kind of thing that like this is. It's like an

2886
03:00:58,560 --> 03:01:02,160
Speaker 1: almost an abusive relation. Shift. You know, I would not

2887
03:01:02,240 --> 03:01:06,359
Speaker 1: be running if it wasn't this intense of a problem

2888
03:01:06,400 --> 03:01:09,280
Speaker 1: this has been. It could happen here. Join us tomorrow

2889
03:01:09,320 --> 03:01:12,280
Speaker 1: for part two of the interview, where Shift Change discusses

2890
03:01:12,320 --> 03:01:14,240
Speaker 1: more of their vision for what the union could be.

2891
03:01:15,160 --> 03:01:17,720
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can find us on Twitter or Instagram.

2892
03:01:17,720 --> 03:01:20,280
Speaker 1: That happened here at pod and you can find cool

2893
03:01:20,320 --> 03:01:23,320
Speaker 1: Zone Media the same places at cool Zone Media. We've

2894
03:01:23,360 --> 03:01:25,760
Speaker 1: also posted a link in the description to Shift Changes

2895
03:01:25,760 --> 03:01:27,720
Speaker 1: go fund Me if you want to help support their campaign.

2896
03:01:43,280 --> 03:01:45,920
Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could Happen here. We now continue

2897
03:01:45,920 --> 03:01:50,279
Speaker 1: our conversation with the team from shift Change enjoy Outside

2898
03:01:50,280 --> 03:01:54,039
Speaker 1: of the obvious the union is doing landlordism for some reason,

2899
03:01:54,160 --> 03:01:57,160
Speaker 1: part which is just sort of I can't get over, like, well,

2900
03:01:57,160 --> 03:02:00,440
Speaker 1: what do you what do your media forty four dollars.

2901
03:02:00,440 --> 03:02:02,800
Speaker 1: The thing you're doing is being a landlord. But yeah,

2902
03:02:02,840 --> 03:02:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean it seems like they're you know, like out

2903
03:02:04,760 --> 03:02:06,680
Speaker 1: of one side of their mouth saying this is a

2904
03:02:06,680 --> 03:02:08,520
Speaker 1: democratic union. In their side of their mouth, they're doing

2905
03:02:08,560 --> 03:02:13,200
Speaker 1: political purges. They're like doing everything possible to make sure

2906
03:02:13,200 --> 03:02:16,280
Speaker 1: people don't know how to like democratic process works, which

2907
03:02:16,680 --> 03:02:20,760
Speaker 1: I think is a pretty like basic precept of democracy

2908
03:02:21,400 --> 03:02:24,480
Speaker 1: is that if if, if it's impossible to figure out

2909
03:02:24,520 --> 03:02:26,440
Speaker 1: how the system actually works, it's not it's not it's

2910
03:02:26,440 --> 03:02:31,400
Speaker 1: not actually a democracy in any real sense. Yeah, and

2911
03:02:32,200 --> 03:02:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and this is the thing you're saying

2912
03:02:33,720 --> 03:02:36,160
Speaker 1: is like they seem they seem to be acting like bosses,

2913
03:02:36,240 --> 03:02:40,400
Speaker 1: like they're firing people. They get nervous when people start organizing,

2914
03:02:40,440 --> 03:02:43,560
Speaker 1: which is not a thing that you would think a

2915
03:02:43,680 --> 03:02:46,879
Speaker 1: union would be ecstatic, and it's like, oh, heir, there's

2916
03:02:46,879 --> 03:02:49,680
Speaker 1: this one wors like organized themselves. I don't know, it's

2917
03:02:49,760 --> 03:02:53,200
Speaker 1: just I mean, there's a there's a there's a mentality

2918
03:02:53,280 --> 03:02:56,120
Speaker 1: inside among some people and even among some of the

2919
03:02:56,200 --> 03:03:00,080
Speaker 1: nurses that like, you know, when people are causing problem

2920
03:03:00,240 --> 03:03:06,640
Speaker 1: or you know, it's the Yeah, it's it's a very

2921
03:03:06,680 --> 03:03:09,840
Speaker 1: it's a very perplexing situation to be in, and many

2922
03:03:09,879 --> 03:03:12,160
Speaker 1: of us it's taken us years to really figure it out,

2923
03:03:12,200 --> 03:03:15,120
Speaker 1: because you don't we all come to work right to

2924
03:03:15,160 --> 03:03:17,560
Speaker 1: do our job, you know. I don't come to work

2925
03:03:17,600 --> 03:03:20,440
Speaker 1: to like figure out every like little nuanced thing about

2926
03:03:20,480 --> 03:03:23,120
Speaker 1: what's going on inside my union. I didn't become a

2927
03:03:23,320 --> 03:03:26,760
Speaker 1: union nurse because I wanted to be like a hero

2928
03:03:27,240 --> 03:03:30,640
Speaker 1: union member. I did it because it was down the

2929
03:03:30,640 --> 03:03:32,120
Speaker 1: street and it was a good job, and like I

2930
03:03:32,320 --> 03:03:34,680
Speaker 1: wanted to be a nurse more than anything in the world.

2931
03:03:36,520 --> 03:03:38,920
Speaker 1: So you know this, But this is what we do,

2932
03:03:39,000 --> 03:03:41,959
Speaker 1: and this is why things like labor notes and learning

2933
03:03:42,000 --> 03:03:45,400
Speaker 1: how your union works is really important. We've been self

2934
03:03:45,520 --> 03:03:47,959
Speaker 1: educating ourselves. Like it's almost like you have to become

2935
03:03:47,959 --> 03:03:52,360
Speaker 1: a jail house lawyer, right, yeah, like a yeah, We've

2936
03:03:52,400 --> 03:03:55,040
Speaker 1: been sharing our favorite resources for like how do you

2937
03:03:55,120 --> 03:03:58,080
Speaker 1: learn about how union works or what your rights are,

2938
03:03:58,680 --> 03:04:01,440
Speaker 1: and like we're basically taking notes for what we're going

2939
03:04:01,520 --> 03:04:03,400
Speaker 1: to have to do when we if we get in

2940
03:04:03,440 --> 03:04:07,200
Speaker 1: power inside the union to educate all the nurses in

2941
03:04:06,959 --> 03:04:09,320
Speaker 1: our union. One of the things a little too, I

2942
03:04:09,360 --> 03:04:12,000
Speaker 1: mean every time I talk with people about this, to

2943
03:04:12,080 --> 03:04:14,520
Speaker 1: try and give little tips and tricks. Don't leave your

2944
03:04:14,760 --> 03:04:18,320
Speaker 1: staff are a loan in at the negotiating table. They'll

2945
03:04:18,320 --> 03:04:21,000
Speaker 1: tell you everything's going great, go get go, get some dinner,

2946
03:04:21,360 --> 03:04:23,720
Speaker 1: and you come back. And you can't do regressive bargaining.

2947
03:04:23,720 --> 03:04:27,160
Speaker 1: You can't unbargain like a thing when someone's been empowered

2948
03:04:27,160 --> 03:04:32,320
Speaker 1: to decide something for you. And this is where especially

2949
03:04:32,400 --> 03:04:37,320
Speaker 1: new like new units in hot in countries or parts

2950
03:04:37,320 --> 03:04:40,600
Speaker 1: of the country without strong union culture are finding that

2951
03:04:40,640 --> 03:04:43,560
Speaker 1: they'll step away from the bargaining table and they'll come back,

2952
03:04:43,600 --> 03:04:45,600
Speaker 1: and then all these decisions will be made that they

2953
03:04:45,600 --> 03:04:48,400
Speaker 1: don't have any You can't go back on it. It's

2954
03:04:48,520 --> 03:04:52,440
Speaker 1: like literally no backsies in like in union negotiations. No.

2955
03:04:54,360 --> 03:04:57,920
Speaker 1: And so there's no such thing as regressive bargaining. If

2956
03:04:57,920 --> 03:05:02,360
Speaker 1: if if I say that I want a you you

2957
03:05:02,440 --> 03:05:06,440
Speaker 1: offer a fifty percent increase in fifty cent an hour

2958
03:05:06,640 --> 03:05:12,160
Speaker 1: increase for floating to another union unit, I can't turn

2959
03:05:12,200 --> 03:05:15,959
Speaker 1: around and you can't offer me forty five cents the

2960
03:05:16,120 --> 03:05:19,960
Speaker 1: next go round. You cannot go back if you said

2961
03:05:20,000 --> 03:05:22,400
Speaker 1: fifty percent, it has to be you know, more than

2962
03:05:22,440 --> 03:05:25,280
Speaker 1: fifty percent on the next offer, or you just say

2963
03:05:25,320 --> 03:05:29,040
Speaker 1: that's my final offer, so you know the idea of

2964
03:05:29,040 --> 03:05:33,520
Speaker 1: regressive bargaining is I have to tell you it's amazing,

2965
03:05:33,680 --> 03:05:38,879
Speaker 1: is that when we negotiate against Sutter in twenty eleven

2966
03:05:38,959 --> 03:05:44,080
Speaker 1: through twenty thirteen, we had multiple cases of ulps filed

2967
03:05:44,080 --> 03:05:51,039
Speaker 1: for regressive bargaining on their part. They constantly made these

2968
03:05:51,080 --> 03:05:54,920
Speaker 1: mistakes which we as nurses and the labor reps caught.

2969
03:05:56,280 --> 03:06:00,800
Speaker 1: And now for us, it's so important that we don't

2970
03:06:01,560 --> 03:06:07,160
Speaker 1: regressive bargain regressive bargaining on our own members here. We

2971
03:06:07,240 --> 03:06:10,840
Speaker 1: need to be moving forward. We should be making quantum

2972
03:06:10,959 --> 03:06:14,640
Speaker 1: leaps and bounds as nurses. Well, what we've gone through,

2973
03:06:15,640 --> 03:06:20,520
Speaker 1: we're supposedly the most trusted profession in the country. I

2974
03:06:20,560 --> 03:06:23,840
Speaker 1: think it's the past twenty years. The only time we

2975
03:06:23,920 --> 03:06:28,080
Speaker 1: have not been the most progressive or the most respected

2976
03:06:29,080 --> 03:06:32,039
Speaker 1: profession was in two thousand and one, and you can

2977
03:06:32,040 --> 03:06:36,560
Speaker 1: obviously guess that it was firemen. It was firemen. But

2978
03:06:36,640 --> 03:06:38,800
Speaker 1: it's like twenty five years or so in a row

2979
03:06:38,840 --> 03:06:43,600
Speaker 1: we've been the most trusted profession. It's because, you know,

2980
03:06:44,040 --> 03:06:47,320
Speaker 1: how can you not trust somebody who's cleaning you up

2981
03:06:47,440 --> 03:06:51,000
Speaker 1: when you soiled yourself in the bed, who's holding your

2982
03:06:51,000 --> 03:06:56,280
Speaker 1: hand when you're scared. That's why we're the most trusted

2983
03:06:56,280 --> 03:06:59,879
Speaker 1: profession and we should be the most respected for what

2984
03:07:00,040 --> 03:07:05,240
Speaker 1: we do. It's just amazing that our union can't carry

2985
03:07:05,320 --> 03:07:09,400
Speaker 1: us through that. Our union was formed in a revolution

2986
03:07:11,120 --> 03:07:17,520
Speaker 1: that we overthrew and kicked out management nurses and formed

2987
03:07:17,879 --> 03:07:23,279
Speaker 1: the California Nurses Association, the bargaining part of the organization.

2988
03:07:23,320 --> 03:07:28,080
Speaker 1: The association broke away from the management part and we

2989
03:07:28,760 --> 03:07:31,920
Speaker 1: toraled her. It all as a wonderful example somebody who

2990
03:07:32,040 --> 03:07:36,360
Speaker 1: was part of that revolution. And for about twenty over

2991
03:07:36,440 --> 03:07:42,520
Speaker 1: twenty some years, we were a rapidly progressive union. We

2992
03:07:42,520 --> 03:07:44,800
Speaker 1: didn't have all the rank and file things that we

2993
03:07:44,840 --> 03:07:49,000
Speaker 1: should have had in the union, but it was in

2994
03:07:49,040 --> 03:07:52,920
Speaker 1: the right direction for nurses. And we've kind of made

2995
03:07:52,959 --> 03:07:59,720
Speaker 1: in the past ten years this U turn and the Association,

2996
03:08:00,000 --> 03:08:03,520
Speaker 1: which I think is bad for nurses. We need to

2997
03:08:03,520 --> 03:08:07,680
Speaker 1: be going forward and we have new nurses and new

2998
03:08:09,120 --> 03:08:13,199
Speaker 1: a new generation that is joining the union and they

2999
03:08:13,240 --> 03:08:17,160
Speaker 1: need to be a part of it. And they can't

3000
03:08:17,160 --> 03:08:19,960
Speaker 1: look at me and say that that old fogy that's

3001
03:08:20,240 --> 03:08:23,959
Speaker 1: been in the union for thirty some years. You know

3002
03:08:24,040 --> 03:08:26,280
Speaker 1: that I'll be doing the work for them. They need

3003
03:08:26,320 --> 03:08:28,360
Speaker 1: to be active in that union and they need to

3004
03:08:28,480 --> 03:08:31,879
Speaker 1: love the idea of solidarity, you know, out of the

3005
03:08:31,920 --> 03:08:35,879
Speaker 1: fires of desperation, burn hope and solidarity. It was one

3006
03:08:35,920 --> 03:08:40,879
Speaker 1: of the ladies said, I think Sharon Borrow from Australia,

3007
03:08:40,959 --> 03:08:45,160
Speaker 1: an Australian labor activists, said that we need to have

3008
03:08:45,280 --> 03:08:48,640
Speaker 1: every union member. I don't think every one of them

3009
03:08:48,640 --> 03:08:50,840
Speaker 1: has to be rabbit about it, but they should be

3010
03:08:50,879 --> 03:08:55,240
Speaker 1: aware that they need to stand tall and support each other,

3011
03:08:55,520 --> 03:08:59,199
Speaker 1: and not just even they need to support the non

3012
03:08:59,320 --> 03:09:01,640
Speaker 1: union nurses they need to get. We need to get

3013
03:09:01,680 --> 03:09:08,360
Speaker 1: more nurses unionized. The problem with unions is there's not

3014
03:09:08,560 --> 03:09:12,199
Speaker 1: enough unions out there. There's not enough people in the unions.

3015
03:09:12,680 --> 03:09:16,560
Speaker 1: We need to get more nurses unionized and our union

3016
03:09:16,600 --> 03:09:18,640
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to do that in quite a while.

3017
03:09:19,400 --> 03:09:22,720
Speaker 1: We haven't. We we've been raiding a lot of other unions,

3018
03:09:22,760 --> 03:09:27,440
Speaker 1: but we need to get out there, uh and get

3019
03:09:27,440 --> 03:09:31,160
Speaker 1: people in the South unionized. We need to get other

3020
03:09:31,680 --> 03:09:35,080
Speaker 1: nurses and you know in the Midwest organized that aren't

3021
03:09:35,200 --> 03:09:39,960
Speaker 1: unionized yet. We have a bigger vision as bedside nurses,

3022
03:09:39,959 --> 03:09:45,199
Speaker 1: and I think that our our national union has I'm

3023
03:09:45,200 --> 03:09:47,280
Speaker 1: only as strong as the person next to me. I

3024
03:09:47,680 --> 03:09:51,879
Speaker 1: need support. As John said, yeah, we're four people running

3025
03:09:52,160 --> 03:09:58,039
Speaker 1: for the Council of Presidents, but behind us, there's there's

3026
03:09:58,080 --> 03:10:02,920
Speaker 1: so many nurses supporting us. Nurses are texting me all

3027
03:10:02,959 --> 03:10:06,920
Speaker 1: the time, Hey, give me some pliers, give me some buttons.

3028
03:10:06,959 --> 03:10:10,880
Speaker 1: I want to pass them out. It's it's important for us.

3029
03:10:10,920 --> 03:10:14,600
Speaker 1: I know we're we're at a disadvantage we don't have.

3030
03:10:15,320 --> 03:10:18,800
Speaker 1: You know, the people were running against even though it's

3031
03:10:18,840 --> 03:10:24,039
Speaker 1: illegal for them to have the union promote them, they're

3032
03:10:24,080 --> 03:10:27,040
Speaker 1: obviously going to have that advantage like a city president

3033
03:10:27,440 --> 03:10:30,240
Speaker 1: because they're going to be in the National Nurse magazine,

3034
03:10:30,400 --> 03:10:33,760
Speaker 1: going around the country, you know, doing the things they

3035
03:10:33,800 --> 03:10:36,840
Speaker 1: do as sitting presidents, so they're going to get that

3036
03:10:36,959 --> 03:10:41,400
Speaker 1: free publicity. I wish the union presidents went around the

3037
03:10:41,400 --> 03:10:44,280
Speaker 1: country because as far as I know, they've never come

3038
03:10:44,320 --> 03:10:47,760
Speaker 1: here at Chicaca. Yeah, I think the only time we

3039
03:10:47,879 --> 03:10:51,720
Speaker 1: bet to Chicago's when we had that People Power convention

3040
03:10:51,800 --> 03:10:55,480
Speaker 1: there and that was my first visit back to Chicago,

3041
03:10:55,600 --> 03:10:58,600
Speaker 1: and I think ten years was when I went there.

3042
03:11:00,320 --> 03:11:05,240
Speaker 1: And it's amazing. Is it should be our union should rotate,

3043
03:11:06,280 --> 03:11:10,560
Speaker 1: rotate where they have their their their conventions. They should

3044
03:11:10,600 --> 03:11:12,480
Speaker 1: we should be all around the country. We should be

3045
03:11:12,520 --> 03:11:15,600
Speaker 1: going to the south and having conventions so that we

3046
03:11:15,640 --> 03:11:21,320
Speaker 1: can attract people. Um. I think it's important we need

3047
03:11:21,360 --> 03:11:24,760
Speaker 1: to make inroads. UM. You know, I know a lot

3048
03:11:24,800 --> 03:11:26,600
Speaker 1: of it is They're going to say the pandemic, and

3049
03:11:26,680 --> 03:11:34,200
Speaker 1: I think the pandemic did hasten this siloing. Um. And

3050
03:11:34,360 --> 03:11:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, some of it was a little understandable. But

3051
03:11:37,400 --> 03:11:39,640
Speaker 1: even when it was evident that they should have come

3052
03:11:39,680 --> 03:11:45,400
Speaker 1: out of the borough, they never did. And they people

3053
03:11:45,400 --> 03:11:50,120
Speaker 1: have been saying how tired they are from the pandemic, right, Like,

3054
03:11:50,400 --> 03:11:52,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how they could have been tired. The

3055
03:11:52,800 --> 03:11:55,879
Speaker 1: union could have been tired when they were just having

3056
03:11:55,959 --> 03:11:59,920
Speaker 1: zoom calls. No, no, I mean the nurses are saying

3057
03:12:00,000 --> 03:12:03,720
Speaker 1: that they're tired. Like. But here's what's interesting. This is

3058
03:12:03,720 --> 03:12:05,800
Speaker 1: a thing that I'm seeing in real time as we're

3059
03:12:05,840 --> 03:12:09,400
Speaker 1: doing this work, is that nurses who have been exhausted

3060
03:12:09,800 --> 03:12:12,680
Speaker 1: and some of the most beat down like like nurses

3061
03:12:12,720 --> 03:12:17,320
Speaker 1: who are like in the worst situations here in Chicago,

3062
03:12:18,200 --> 03:12:23,280
Speaker 1: are tired. But then they hear something interesting is going

3063
03:12:23,280 --> 03:12:25,720
Speaker 1: on with the union that is actually something that they

3064
03:12:25,760 --> 03:12:29,199
Speaker 1: have a say in, which is very unusual in our union,

3065
03:12:29,680 --> 03:12:33,240
Speaker 1: and people get very excited. So I'm having coworkers coming

3066
03:12:33,280 --> 03:12:37,199
Speaker 1: up to me who are the least interested in union

3067
03:12:37,360 --> 03:12:42,879
Speaker 1: business until maybe it's time for a strike. And you know,

3068
03:12:42,959 --> 03:12:46,359
Speaker 1: it's interesting because like when we did our strike organizing

3069
03:12:46,360 --> 03:12:50,280
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, the first strike in Chicago's of nurses

3070
03:12:50,560 --> 03:12:55,160
Speaker 1: in like forty years in Chicago. You know, they kept

3071
03:12:55,720 --> 03:12:58,800
Speaker 1: it would call these small kind of symbolic actions, and

3072
03:12:58,879 --> 03:13:02,520
Speaker 1: they call them stress tests or structure tests for like,

3073
03:13:02,560 --> 03:13:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to do we're going to do

3074
03:13:05,360 --> 03:13:07,080
Speaker 1: a press conference and you have like you know, a

3075
03:13:07,080 --> 03:13:09,200
Speaker 1: handful of nurses come out for the press conference, yet

3076
03:13:09,240 --> 03:13:12,360
Speaker 1: like ten or fifteen nurses to come out, and they're like, oh,

3077
03:13:12,400 --> 03:13:15,480
Speaker 1: they're all wringing their hands. And then we start started

3078
03:13:15,480 --> 03:13:20,000
Speaker 1: calling pickets and then we start blowing past our turnout numbers.

3079
03:13:20,040 --> 03:13:23,360
Speaker 1: And then when we did our strike, they were expecting

3080
03:13:23,400 --> 03:13:28,080
Speaker 1: eight hundred nurses with twelve fourteen hundred nurses, more nurses

3081
03:13:28,080 --> 03:13:30,600
Speaker 1: than ever been in anyone place in our hospital. Like

3082
03:13:30,640 --> 03:13:33,080
Speaker 1: it was like a giant party. So it's kind of

3083
03:13:33,080 --> 03:13:36,040
Speaker 1: like when people have know that there's something that really

3084
03:13:36,360 --> 03:13:39,960
Speaker 1: has like they has a stake in, right, there's an

3085
03:13:40,000 --> 03:13:45,480
Speaker 1: infinite amount of energy almost and this election is really

3086
03:13:45,560 --> 03:13:48,879
Speaker 1: kind of like we can't make the buttons fast enough

3087
03:13:49,760 --> 03:13:52,960
Speaker 1: to give away like they keep people keep coming up

3088
03:13:52,959 --> 03:13:54,800
Speaker 1: and they're like, here, give me a handful. I've got

3089
03:13:54,920 --> 03:13:58,880
Speaker 1: coworkers and we're doing there's you know, let's get the

3090
03:13:58,920 --> 03:14:01,280
Speaker 1: pictures of everyone with their nurse with their with their

3091
03:14:01,320 --> 03:14:05,960
Speaker 1: shift change buttons shift change, and you know, we're turning

3092
03:14:06,000 --> 03:14:09,280
Speaker 1: that stuff into we're getting ramped up and prepared for

3093
03:14:09,520 --> 03:14:13,520
Speaker 1: like our social media like outreach, and this is part

3094
03:14:13,560 --> 03:14:15,440
Speaker 1: of it, is like getting people to see like, hey,

3095
03:14:15,480 --> 03:14:19,640
Speaker 1: there are people out there who want to do something

3096
03:14:19,680 --> 03:14:22,480
Speaker 1: different and that put you like as a as a

3097
03:14:22,520 --> 03:14:25,440
Speaker 1: bedside nurse. This is our opportunity to get you into

3098
03:14:25,440 --> 03:14:27,960
Speaker 1: the driver's seat of how your union is run, how

3099
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:31,120
Speaker 1: strikes are called, how we negotiate, Like we want to

3100
03:14:31,120 --> 03:14:35,520
Speaker 1: have a council of hospitals in contract campaigns. It's just

3101
03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:40,400
Speaker 1: nurses from negotiating teams so that they can all so

3102
03:14:40,440 --> 03:14:42,440
Speaker 1: we can coordinate and decide when we want to go

3103
03:14:42,440 --> 03:14:44,760
Speaker 1: on strike. And it's not someone who's never been a

3104
03:14:44,840 --> 03:14:50,480
Speaker 1: nurse making that call for us, Yeah, which seems just

3105
03:14:50,600 --> 03:14:53,600
Speaker 1: baffling that you'd have some random person who hasn't been

3106
03:14:53,640 --> 03:14:56,120
Speaker 1: a nurse making strike decisions to this I mean the

3107
03:14:56,160 --> 03:14:58,640
Speaker 1: fact that it's not also just there seems like there's

3108
03:14:58,640 --> 03:15:01,720
Speaker 1: such an enormous gap between the things you would just

3109
03:15:01,959 --> 03:15:05,320
Speaker 1: basically fundamentally expect a union to be doing and what's

3110
03:15:05,360 --> 03:15:08,040
Speaker 1: actually happening, which has nothing to do with that, And

3111
03:15:08,040 --> 03:15:09,560
Speaker 1: it's just the sort of I mean it almost it

3112
03:15:09,640 --> 03:15:13,640
Speaker 1: seems like like intentional dubobilization. Well, they want to treat

3113
03:15:13,680 --> 03:15:16,240
Speaker 1: us like a spigot, like they want like you can

3114
03:15:16,320 --> 03:15:18,760
Speaker 1: turn us on and turn us off. You know. The

3115
03:15:18,840 --> 03:15:21,160
Speaker 1: problem is is that people don't respond to that well,

3116
03:15:21,320 --> 03:15:24,520
Speaker 1: and you kind of constantly have to be honing your

3117
03:15:24,560 --> 03:15:28,400
Speaker 1: practice through defending the contract, which is a big thing

3118
03:15:28,440 --> 03:15:31,680
Speaker 1: that like a lot of my coworkers are just constantly

3119
03:15:31,680 --> 03:15:35,400
Speaker 1: annoyed that the contract we're not defending. Our chief nurse

3120
03:15:35,440 --> 03:15:38,199
Speaker 1: rep is always annoyed that she can only know scrape

3121
03:15:38,240 --> 03:15:42,160
Speaker 1: together you know, like four or five people, and you know,

3122
03:15:42,280 --> 03:15:45,440
Speaker 1: I do it, and I'm not like I'm really good

3123
03:15:45,440 --> 03:15:47,400
Speaker 1: when I'm in the room with you know, I've my

3124
03:15:47,480 --> 03:15:49,560
Speaker 1: coworkers think that I do a good job, but you know,

3125
03:15:49,600 --> 03:15:52,400
Speaker 1: when it comes down to like doing all of the

3126
03:15:52,440 --> 03:15:54,600
Speaker 1: reading and everything to make sure it's done, I need

3127
03:15:54,760 --> 03:15:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, It's the thing that I'm always working on

3128
03:15:56,680 --> 03:15:59,840
Speaker 1: and trying to get better at m But you know,

3129
03:16:00,160 --> 03:16:03,040
Speaker 1: the that is kind of the lifeblood of trade unionism

3130
03:16:03,160 --> 03:16:04,960
Speaker 1: is like, if you're going to have a contract, you

3131
03:16:04,959 --> 03:16:08,600
Speaker 1: need to in between contract barting campaigns where you can

3132
03:16:08,640 --> 03:16:11,680
Speaker 1: go on strike, you need to be constantly probing and

3133
03:16:11,720 --> 03:16:15,240
Speaker 1: pushing and finding where the weak spots are and keeping

3134
03:16:15,280 --> 03:16:19,080
Speaker 1: people in the practice of like fighting. And if you

3135
03:16:19,160 --> 03:16:21,440
Speaker 1: do that and you're really effective at it, you can

3136
03:16:21,600 --> 03:16:29,320
Speaker 1: affect some pretty impressive changes in between contracts. When our

3137
03:16:29,360 --> 03:16:34,879
Speaker 1: friends was was the labor rep at Cook County, they

3138
03:16:34,920 --> 03:16:38,800
Speaker 1: went from having maybe like ten people doing like the

3139
03:16:38,800 --> 03:16:41,640
Speaker 1: rep work to over sixty people doing the rep work.

3140
03:16:41,760 --> 03:16:46,600
Speaker 1: She partnered with a really phenomenal chief nurse rep who

3141
03:16:46,840 --> 03:16:50,200
Speaker 1: had a family Her dad had been president of a

3142
03:16:50,240 --> 03:16:57,080
Speaker 1: SEIU local, and they were they had pushed so hard

3143
03:16:57,120 --> 03:17:01,920
Speaker 1: that they were able to read to open negotiations for

3144
03:17:02,080 --> 03:17:06,760
Speaker 1: attention bonuses, which after you've settled a contract is like

3145
03:17:07,240 --> 03:17:11,760
Speaker 1: to open something on economics, like on the order of fifteen,

3146
03:17:12,480 --> 03:17:16,840
Speaker 1: fifteen or ten thousand dollars, retention bonuses is a huge deal. Yeah,

3147
03:17:17,440 --> 03:17:19,720
Speaker 1: the problem was is that that then they fired her

3148
03:17:19,920 --> 03:17:23,480
Speaker 1: when she connected us at Cooke County, or the nurses

3149
03:17:23,480 --> 03:17:26,840
Speaker 1: at Coo County with nurses at University of Chicago, and

3150
03:17:27,520 --> 03:17:29,879
Speaker 1: we started comparing notes with what our staff were like,

3151
03:17:29,959 --> 03:17:35,480
Speaker 1: and their chief nurse reps started asking the director of bargaining,

3152
03:17:35,520 --> 03:17:37,800
Speaker 1: who's not a nurse and has never been a nurse,

3153
03:17:38,240 --> 03:17:40,600
Speaker 1: to say, why is it that we are bringing in

3154
03:17:40,959 --> 03:17:43,800
Speaker 1: why is my facility bringing in four million dollars worth

3155
03:17:43,840 --> 03:17:47,640
Speaker 1: of dues? And we get like, you know, two hundred

3156
03:17:47,840 --> 03:17:51,440
Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars worth maybe of staff, Like what's the deal?

3157
03:17:51,480 --> 03:17:53,119
Speaker 1: And why is it that we don't spend any money

3158
03:17:53,120 --> 03:17:56,800
Speaker 1: on arbitration or any of the stuff. They're constantly afraid

3159
03:17:56,879 --> 03:18:01,720
Speaker 1: of doing anything. And that's when they fired Natalie. And

3160
03:18:01,720 --> 03:18:03,920
Speaker 1: then and now they're down to they're trying to whittle

3161
03:18:04,000 --> 03:18:08,000
Speaker 1: those those nurses retention bonus negotiations down to like three

3162
03:18:08,000 --> 03:18:11,480
Speaker 1: thousand and four thousand bucks from like fifteen thousands. You know,

3163
03:18:11,600 --> 03:18:13,520
Speaker 1: you bring in the right people, and all of a sudden,

3164
03:18:14,080 --> 03:18:19,080
Speaker 1: management has to like hire in like um an entire

3165
03:18:19,160 --> 03:18:24,199
Speaker 1: legal extra legal department at cook Anty Health Services. It's

3166
03:18:24,280 --> 03:18:28,000
Speaker 1: not it's not that somebody is not a nurse. That

3167
03:18:28,040 --> 03:18:31,039
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Natalie was not a nurse, yet she was

3168
03:18:31,280 --> 03:18:37,160
Speaker 1: an outstanding example what a labor rep should be. An organizer. Yeah,

3169
03:18:37,200 --> 03:18:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean she you stand with the workers. I just

3170
03:18:42,879 --> 03:18:47,519
Speaker 1: I do believe that we need more nurses involved in

3171
03:18:46,360 --> 03:18:51,600
Speaker 1: UH in organizing and inside the union. But I have

3172
03:18:51,720 --> 03:18:54,879
Speaker 1: no issues with you know, when you have labor reps

3173
03:18:54,879 --> 03:18:58,240
Speaker 1: like Natalie, that's that's what you need to keep the

3174
03:18:58,360 --> 03:19:04,440
Speaker 1: union thriving. And unfortunately to cut her down when she

3175
03:19:04,600 --> 03:19:09,480
Speaker 1: was making inroads to really empower nurses and the union

3176
03:19:10,200 --> 03:19:13,600
Speaker 1: was it's just beyond the pale to make that decision.

3177
03:19:14,280 --> 03:19:17,840
Speaker 1: Why they made that decision is something that I think

3178
03:19:17,879 --> 03:19:20,160
Speaker 1: if we won the presidency, we'd want to find out

3179
03:19:20,800 --> 03:19:25,360
Speaker 1: why was that decision made because the big part of

3180
03:19:25,360 --> 03:19:29,040
Speaker 1: this is holding the staff accountable is our big thing,

3181
03:19:29,360 --> 03:19:32,879
Speaker 1: Like we just need to know right now, there's no

3182
03:19:32,920 --> 03:19:36,280
Speaker 1: accountability to So imagine having a job where like if

3183
03:19:36,280 --> 03:19:38,760
Speaker 1: you are a nurse, Like if we're speaking to our

3184
03:19:38,800 --> 03:19:42,000
Speaker 1: coworkers right now, imagine being a nurse and no one

3185
03:19:42,000 --> 03:19:44,760
Speaker 1: ever checking your charting, no one ever checking what a

3186
03:19:44,800 --> 03:19:48,080
Speaker 1: patient has to say about the care they got. No

3187
03:19:48,120 --> 03:19:52,400
Speaker 1: one asking a doctor like what you did during a shift, right,

3188
03:19:53,200 --> 03:19:55,560
Speaker 1: No one checking your like to see if like all

3189
03:19:55,600 --> 03:19:58,039
Speaker 1: of your vital signs are actually really reflected in like

3190
03:19:58,080 --> 03:20:01,080
Speaker 1: the monitor. That's the situation. Or we're dealing with staff

3191
03:20:01,160 --> 03:20:06,560
Speaker 1: right now, no one who's outside of their staff bosses

3192
03:20:06,640 --> 03:20:10,400
Speaker 1: at the director level has they're they're only accountable to

3193
03:20:10,440 --> 03:20:13,400
Speaker 1: those people, and they are only accountable and they're not

3194
03:20:13,440 --> 03:20:18,560
Speaker 1: actually accountable. They just write like they write everything themselves.

3195
03:20:18,560 --> 03:20:21,440
Speaker 1: They write their own reports. They get they you know,

3196
03:20:21,560 --> 03:20:23,400
Speaker 1: they'll take you know, a nurse will come up with

3197
03:20:23,400 --> 03:20:25,720
Speaker 1: a good idea, they'll run it up the flag pool.

3198
03:20:25,800 --> 03:20:32,800
Speaker 1: Check out this awesome idea, have, boss. I mean, it

3199
03:20:32,840 --> 03:20:35,400
Speaker 1: sounds like a downer I guess is like it all

3200
03:20:35,440 --> 03:20:38,519
Speaker 1: sounds very like this is all grim and like depressing.

3201
03:20:38,560 --> 03:20:40,680
Speaker 1: But the fact is is that we are at a

3202
03:20:40,720 --> 03:20:42,560
Speaker 1: point now where we see what's going on and what

3203
03:20:42,600 --> 03:20:45,280
Speaker 1: we need to do. We've been educating ourselves about what

3204
03:20:45,560 --> 03:20:47,959
Speaker 1: can be done to change the union because the union

3205
03:20:48,040 --> 03:20:51,160
Speaker 1: is a democratic structure, even in like just the shell

3206
03:20:51,320 --> 03:20:54,480
Speaker 1: form of it, and as nurses, we've got a lot

3207
03:20:54,520 --> 03:20:56,720
Speaker 1: of faith that as nurses we can figure this out

3208
03:20:56,760 --> 03:21:00,879
Speaker 1: and come up with a much better, more democratic way

3209
03:21:00,879 --> 03:21:03,520
Speaker 1: to run our union. And I think it will fundamentally

3210
03:21:03,560 --> 03:21:06,760
Speaker 1: be a much stronger organization. I think That's the fear

3211
03:21:06,879 --> 03:21:09,080
Speaker 1: is that somehow we like, you know, some people are like, oh,

3212
03:21:09,160 --> 03:21:12,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna make it worse. It's like I

3213
03:21:12,040 --> 03:21:13,840
Speaker 1: don't know that you could make it worse. It's like,

3214
03:21:15,120 --> 03:21:18,720
Speaker 1: you know, there's the healthcare industry is changing. I think

3215
03:21:18,720 --> 03:21:20,960
Speaker 1: we're seeing this in real time as the healthcare industry

3216
03:21:21,040 --> 03:21:25,600
Speaker 1: is changing, and we are seeing to the you know,

3217
03:21:26,040 --> 03:21:29,040
Speaker 1: you have hospitals that come up with the most cutting

3218
03:21:29,120 --> 03:21:33,920
Speaker 1: edged version of healthcare, like the Universe Chicago, or the

3219
03:21:34,040 --> 03:21:37,680
Speaker 1: university systems out in California, or maybe like Stanford that's

3220
03:21:37,720 --> 03:21:40,440
Speaker 1: like the very like the top end of like what

3221
03:21:41,040 --> 03:21:44,280
Speaker 1: healthcare is, and those hospitals are like basically they might

3222
03:21:44,320 --> 03:21:47,200
Speaker 1: as well be gold mines. And then you've got the

3223
03:21:47,200 --> 03:21:50,480
Speaker 1: safety net hospitals. And my fear is that the safety

3224
03:21:50,520 --> 03:21:55,680
Speaker 1: net hospitals they would like to casualize to uber They

3225
03:21:55,800 --> 03:21:59,000
Speaker 1: keep telling us about, oh, they're going to uberize nursing. Well,

3226
03:21:59,040 --> 03:22:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, what is it that they're doing to stop

3227
03:22:01,520 --> 03:22:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, over half of the nurses being at Cook

3228
03:22:04,320 --> 03:22:07,520
Speaker 1: County Health Service from being replaced with agency nurses right now?

3229
03:22:08,680 --> 03:22:10,840
Speaker 1: Like how long is that going to go until there's

3230
03:22:10,879 --> 03:22:13,280
Speaker 1: like you know, they go from a bargaining unit of

3231
03:22:13,440 --> 03:22:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, over fifteen hundred nurses in the union or

3232
03:22:16,000 --> 03:22:18,640
Speaker 1: seventeen hundred nurses in the union to like, you know,

3233
03:22:18,720 --> 03:22:22,240
Speaker 1: it could theoretically drop down to you know, a handful

3234
03:22:22,240 --> 03:22:26,240
Speaker 1: of union nurses. And so they like they it's like

3235
03:22:26,280 --> 03:22:29,879
Speaker 1: an unofficial layoff, right, people quit and they institute a

3236
03:22:29,920 --> 03:22:33,040
Speaker 1: hiring freeze, and then they don't replace them. They bring

3237
03:22:33,080 --> 03:22:35,680
Speaker 1: them in as agency nurses because they would rather in

3238
03:22:35,720 --> 03:22:40,040
Speaker 1: these safety net institutions, not pay benefits, not pay pensions.

3239
03:22:40,760 --> 03:22:43,440
Speaker 1: You know, our hospital we lost, they took our pension away,

3240
03:22:43,440 --> 03:22:46,200
Speaker 1: and the union didn't do anything to fight that back.

3241
03:22:46,280 --> 03:22:49,480
Speaker 1: I was in the pension plan for like two years

3242
03:22:49,520 --> 03:22:52,880
Speaker 1: and then they're like, guess what, no more pensions and

3243
03:22:54,040 --> 03:22:56,520
Speaker 1: the union to do shit about it, and they could

3244
03:22:56,560 --> 03:22:58,840
Speaker 1: have done something. I mean, it was like it's because

3245
03:22:58,879 --> 03:23:01,560
Speaker 1: the contract language is like, well, you get whatever we

3246
03:23:01,640 --> 03:23:06,400
Speaker 1: offer you. And our teamsters in our facility took like

3247
03:23:06,480 --> 03:23:10,800
Speaker 1: a very like a hundred two to four hundred dollars

3248
03:23:10,840 --> 03:23:13,560
Speaker 1: buyout to get rid of their pensions, and that was

3249
03:23:13,640 --> 03:23:17,440
Speaker 1: the end of our pensions for the entire medical center.

3250
03:23:18,840 --> 03:23:22,400
Speaker 1: And then our union where our staffers are all bought

3251
03:23:22,400 --> 03:23:27,680
Speaker 1: into the Steelworkers pension, right, they have a pension. They're like, well, John,

3252
03:23:28,280 --> 03:23:30,840
Speaker 1: maybe you'd have to strike six or eight times, which

3253
03:23:30,879 --> 03:23:32,760
Speaker 1: is what they say whenever they don't want to do anything.

3254
03:23:33,040 --> 03:23:35,879
Speaker 1: And they certainly aren't telling us about hospitals, like the

3255
03:23:35,920 --> 03:23:38,600
Speaker 1: folks that all debates who have struck like ten times

3256
03:23:38,959 --> 03:23:41,680
Speaker 1: to get what it takes. And it's just like, you know, striking.

3257
03:23:41,840 --> 03:23:44,440
Speaker 1: I think there's this idea that it's scary. I have

3258
03:23:44,480 --> 03:23:46,320
Speaker 1: co workers who are telling me, John, just tell me

3259
03:23:46,360 --> 03:23:48,160
Speaker 1: when the next strike is. I can't wait for the

3260
03:23:48,160 --> 03:23:50,760
Speaker 1: next strike. But we've been through it. We have a

3261
03:23:50,800 --> 03:23:53,560
Speaker 1: lot of coworkers who haven't. Half of our nurses are new,

3262
03:23:54,080 --> 03:23:56,480
Speaker 1: they've never been through a strike. But you know, you

3263
03:23:56,600 --> 03:23:59,160
Speaker 1: build a union through strikes, which is the thing that

3264
03:23:59,640 --> 03:24:01,959
Speaker 1: is a little counterintuitive, especially if you do it the

3265
03:24:02,040 --> 03:24:05,440
Speaker 1: right way and you're strategic about it. Raina, You've been

3266
03:24:05,480 --> 03:24:07,880
Speaker 1: real quiet, like what do you think about all this?

3267
03:24:08,560 --> 03:24:12,240
Speaker 1: That's really number one. I'm a lady, and I don't

3268
03:24:12,240 --> 03:24:18,640
Speaker 1: interject unless I absolutely have to. So to go back earlier,

3269
03:24:19,040 --> 03:24:24,879
Speaker 1: what was said about how unique are Slate is, well,

3270
03:24:25,600 --> 03:24:29,199
Speaker 1: it's unique in itself. For one, of course, I kind

3271
03:24:29,200 --> 03:24:34,120
Speaker 1: of sit with being a female and minority. But you

3272
03:24:34,240 --> 03:24:37,400
Speaker 1: also got to think about the men. Now, there is

3273
03:24:37,520 --> 03:24:41,360
Speaker 1: not a lot of men in nursing in general, and

3274
03:24:41,400 --> 03:24:44,440
Speaker 1: I think that's what also they need to look at,

3275
03:24:44,480 --> 03:24:49,320
Speaker 1: because I heard the criticism about that. But let's flip

3276
03:24:49,360 --> 03:24:53,680
Speaker 1: the script on this. I mean we individually, as Eric

3277
03:24:53,760 --> 03:24:58,920
Speaker 1: and John did say before, that we were not here

3278
03:24:58,959 --> 03:25:00,840
Speaker 1: to be a counsel of present. This lay on every

3279
03:25:00,840 --> 03:25:03,840
Speaker 1: who was actually jumping on it to help other people.

3280
03:25:03,959 --> 03:25:07,119
Speaker 1: But form you know, I myself and Eric, we've been

3281
03:25:07,120 --> 03:25:11,400
Speaker 1: knowing each other for what seven six seven years, yeah,

3282
03:25:11,520 --> 03:25:16,880
Speaker 1: something like that. And yeah, and you know, I have

3283
03:25:17,000 --> 03:25:21,240
Speaker 1: seen the changes with the union. I feel that the

3284
03:25:21,440 --> 03:25:25,120
Speaker 1: union has been really stagnant. I think our dudes should

3285
03:25:25,160 --> 03:25:30,640
Speaker 1: be used for community. And now during the pandemic, there

3286
03:25:30,760 --> 03:25:34,200
Speaker 1: is a lot of nurses are totally burnt out and

3287
03:25:34,280 --> 03:25:39,600
Speaker 1: they're slowing to realize that nursing is not what I thought.

3288
03:25:39,640 --> 03:25:42,480
Speaker 1: I did not signed for for this pandemic. I never

3289
03:25:42,720 --> 03:25:45,000
Speaker 1: I've been a nurse for thirteen years. I never knew

3290
03:25:45,040 --> 03:25:47,240
Speaker 1: that was never thought it was gonna be a pandemic

3291
03:25:47,280 --> 03:25:50,119
Speaker 1: like this. So it changed your whole spectrum of what

3292
03:25:50,280 --> 03:25:54,360
Speaker 1: nursing stands and also what we should do to preserve it. Now.

3293
03:25:54,959 --> 03:25:58,120
Speaker 1: I you know, I look young, but I am a

3294
03:25:58,200 --> 03:26:01,680
Speaker 1: grandma about to be a full and so one of

3295
03:26:01,680 --> 03:26:03,280
Speaker 1: them are going to be a nurse one day. And

3296
03:26:03,360 --> 03:26:06,200
Speaker 1: actually one of them is a ten year old. And

3297
03:26:06,240 --> 03:26:08,800
Speaker 1: he told me, he said, you know, looking at all

3298
03:26:08,920 --> 03:26:13,200
Speaker 1: my nursing books and looking at you know, all my

3299
03:26:13,360 --> 03:26:15,240
Speaker 1: medical stuff, and he's looking at me, he said, you

3300
03:26:15,280 --> 03:26:17,760
Speaker 1: know what, I may want to be a nurse now.

3301
03:26:17,920 --> 03:26:19,720
Speaker 1: Mind you, two years ago he wanted to be a

3302
03:26:19,840 --> 03:26:24,320
Speaker 1: race car driver. So it happened. So it kind of

3303
03:26:24,360 --> 03:26:27,360
Speaker 1: inspired me a little bit, like I need to do

3304
03:26:27,520 --> 03:26:31,560
Speaker 1: more leadership. I mean, I think I'm a natural leader

3305
03:26:31,560 --> 03:26:34,600
Speaker 1: in itself. It's just how to do it, where to

3306
03:26:34,680 --> 03:26:37,680
Speaker 1: go And this is just a step for me. I'm

3307
03:26:37,720 --> 03:26:42,520
Speaker 1: at that age. You know, I need to look behind me,

3308
03:26:42,600 --> 03:26:46,360
Speaker 1: if all the younger nurses my family and what my

3309
03:26:46,480 --> 03:26:49,280
Speaker 1: young grandchildren, what they may be. And I want to

3310
03:26:49,280 --> 03:26:53,440
Speaker 1: preserve that. And that's a third reason why I'm standing

3311
03:26:53,560 --> 03:26:59,160
Speaker 1: to do this. So and my peers, I mean, you work,

3312
03:27:00,040 --> 03:27:02,959
Speaker 1: any nurse work eight to twelve hours. The facility that

3313
03:27:03,040 --> 03:27:05,200
Speaker 1: you work with is almost a second home to you.

3314
03:27:05,840 --> 03:27:09,360
Speaker 1: So you want to stand up with your peers. You know,

3315
03:27:09,600 --> 03:27:13,160
Speaker 1: there shouldn't be no divide. We're all standing for an

3316
03:27:13,200 --> 03:27:17,560
Speaker 1: employer who has been trying to take benefits away, trying

3317
03:27:17,560 --> 03:27:22,200
Speaker 1: to take you know, anything that makes it decent for

3318
03:27:22,240 --> 03:27:25,000
Speaker 1: you to just work, and also is wearing and tearing

3319
03:27:25,120 --> 03:27:28,800
Speaker 1: on your wellness and your work life balance and just

3320
03:27:28,879 --> 03:27:33,119
Speaker 1: your whole mental state. So it's so important to really

3321
03:27:33,200 --> 03:27:38,320
Speaker 1: know about your union, about the breakdown of it, about

3322
03:27:38,320 --> 03:27:43,400
Speaker 1: the history, about everything. You need to keep your employer

3323
03:27:43,480 --> 03:27:47,360
Speaker 1: accountable and also within the union. Just like nurses have

3324
03:27:47,440 --> 03:27:49,640
Speaker 1: to be accountable for everything we do, and if we

3325
03:27:49,680 --> 03:27:52,040
Speaker 1: get in trouble, of course we're going to be reprimanded.

3326
03:27:52,200 --> 03:27:54,160
Speaker 1: The union needs to also go through the same thing

3327
03:27:54,200 --> 03:27:59,400
Speaker 1: as we do. It's only fair. So that's pretty much

3328
03:27:59,400 --> 03:28:04,240
Speaker 1: it for me. Any other questions you're reading, are you

3329
03:28:04,640 --> 03:28:09,720
Speaker 1: have you finished up your copy of Solidary Unionism yet? Arena? Oh,

3330
03:28:09,800 --> 03:28:12,640
Speaker 1: you mean the rank and File I am on chapter

3331
03:28:12,760 --> 03:28:15,400
Speaker 1: three has been on. It's been interesting and since I

3332
03:28:15,480 --> 03:28:18,199
Speaker 1: will be going on vacation, well, I am on vacation

3333
03:28:18,320 --> 03:28:21,280
Speaker 1: right now. I'll be leaving tomorrow. I should be finished

3334
03:28:21,320 --> 03:28:24,760
Speaker 1: up with that book by then. That's a That's one

3335
03:28:24,800 --> 03:28:27,560
Speaker 1: thing that like, I don't want anyone to think just

3336
03:28:27,640 --> 03:28:30,720
Speaker 1: because I can speak about the union in a halfway

3337
03:28:30,720 --> 03:28:33,480
Speaker 1: intelligible way that I've been studying this for a long time.

3338
03:28:34,000 --> 03:28:37,000
Speaker 1: A lot of my knowledge about the union is pretty

3339
03:28:37,080 --> 03:28:42,440
Speaker 1: new and recent, and uh, like I got, you know,

3340
03:28:42,520 --> 03:28:45,560
Speaker 1: I picked up a copy of Stoughton Lens The Rank

3341
03:28:45,640 --> 03:28:49,000
Speaker 1: and File Labor Law for the rank and Filer. There's

3342
03:28:49,000 --> 03:28:51,960
Speaker 1: an audiobook of it. It's just a great, like short

3343
03:28:52,040 --> 03:28:54,240
Speaker 1: little book about everything you need to know to kind

3344
03:28:54,280 --> 03:28:57,000
Speaker 1: of like exercise your rights and try and stay out

3345
03:28:57,040 --> 03:29:02,440
Speaker 1: of like trouble. Picked up a copy of you know, uh,

3346
03:29:02,760 --> 03:29:06,800
Speaker 1: Jamie Mccayfleery's No Shortcuts. We've been passing around a copy

3347
03:29:06,959 --> 03:29:12,520
Speaker 1: of Stoughton Len's Solidary Unionism, and like there's a lot.

3348
03:29:12,560 --> 03:29:15,080
Speaker 1: And then we went to Labor Notes and like it's

3349
03:29:15,080 --> 03:29:17,720
Speaker 1: funny because our union sent us to Labor Notes. Like

3350
03:29:18,000 --> 03:29:21,119
Speaker 1: I've got pictures of me and like other shift change

3351
03:29:21,480 --> 03:29:26,160
Speaker 1: people that were taken by staff if we were at

3352
03:29:26,160 --> 03:29:29,360
Speaker 1: the Labor Notes conference. The funny thing was that I

3353
03:29:29,400 --> 03:29:32,280
Speaker 1: was in the talks about how to build a caucus

3354
03:29:32,320 --> 03:29:35,160
Speaker 1: and how to exercise their democratic rights as one of

3355
03:29:35,200 --> 03:29:38,160
Speaker 1: the funeral the only nurses in some of those spaces,

3356
03:29:40,879 --> 03:29:43,439
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I don't know what they expected

3357
03:29:43,480 --> 03:29:45,520
Speaker 1: to happen, but the way they're treating this whole thing,

3358
03:29:45,680 --> 03:29:48,000
Speaker 1: every little thing that we've gotten, the fact that we

3359
03:29:48,040 --> 03:29:49,520
Speaker 1: can send that we were about to be able to

3360
03:29:49,560 --> 03:29:51,960
Speaker 1: send emails out was the thing that we had to

3361
03:29:52,000 --> 03:29:55,320
Speaker 1: fight for every step of the way. They gave us

3362
03:29:55,360 --> 03:29:57,800
Speaker 1: a set of rules that the rules were the most

3363
03:29:57,840 --> 03:30:01,959
Speaker 1: conservative interpretation of our leagual democratic rights that are set

3364
03:30:02,040 --> 03:30:05,360
Speaker 1: in federal law. They gave us like the nineteen fifties,

3365
03:30:05,480 --> 03:30:11,160
Speaker 1: like carpenters union interpretation of like those those rights. They

3366
03:30:11,240 --> 03:30:13,640
Speaker 1: ignored all the case law that we have to be

3367
03:30:13,680 --> 03:30:16,720
Speaker 1: able to communicate with our coworkers through normal union channel,

3368
03:30:16,800 --> 03:30:20,280
Speaker 1: like every communication method our union uses to normally communicate

3369
03:30:20,320 --> 03:30:24,600
Speaker 1: with us legally we should have access to. Now they're

3370
03:30:24,640 --> 03:30:26,680
Speaker 1: trying to throttle that's like all you can only send

3371
03:30:26,760 --> 03:30:29,680
Speaker 1: an email communication every fifteen days. It's like you know what,

3372
03:30:29,840 --> 03:30:32,800
Speaker 1: like you're doing your little whisper campaign like twenty four hours,

3373
03:30:33,120 --> 03:30:35,760
Speaker 1: twenty four seven just by and then you have to

3374
03:30:35,800 --> 03:30:40,600
Speaker 1: opt into like to communication about the about the election,

3375
03:30:40,760 --> 03:30:44,600
Speaker 1: like they were trying to keep and they're cutting meetings short,

3376
03:30:44,640 --> 03:30:47,480
Speaker 1: they're cutting meetings off. They were trying to bury this.

3377
03:30:47,640 --> 03:30:50,040
Speaker 1: Now we think that they're they're trying to shift gears

3378
03:30:50,040 --> 03:30:51,840
Speaker 1: because they know that this is a lot more serious

3379
03:30:53,080 --> 03:30:55,920
Speaker 1: than they thought it was. You know, we're not here

3380
03:30:55,959 --> 03:30:59,560
Speaker 1: to you know, turn the union upside like well, maybe

3381
03:30:59,560 --> 03:31:01,200
Speaker 1: turn the an upside down is a good way to

3382
03:31:01,200 --> 03:31:03,200
Speaker 1: think of it, but in a good productive way, not

3383
03:31:03,320 --> 03:31:05,879
Speaker 1: in a you know, turn it upside down and shake it,

3384
03:31:06,000 --> 03:31:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, to like, you know, destroy it. We want

3385
03:31:08,040 --> 03:31:10,360
Speaker 1: to turn it upside down so that it's the way

3386
03:31:10,600 --> 03:31:13,080
Speaker 1: a real union is supposed to be, is it. People

3387
03:31:13,080 --> 03:31:15,560
Speaker 1: who are elected into leadership are accountable to the people

3388
03:31:16,120 --> 03:31:21,200
Speaker 1: who elect them. And our goal is to you know,

3389
03:31:21,360 --> 03:31:24,880
Speaker 1: to make the union like we want to go from

3390
03:31:25,560 --> 03:31:28,440
Speaker 1: something like you know, Chicago Teachers Union, which is really

3391
03:31:28,520 --> 03:31:33,040
Speaker 1: powerful and famously like democratic. It wasn't always that way.

3392
03:31:33,040 --> 03:31:36,200
Speaker 1: It was only focused on very basic stuff, you know,

3393
03:31:36,280 --> 03:31:40,200
Speaker 1: before the women in the Chicago Teachers Union took it

3394
03:31:40,240 --> 03:31:43,240
Speaker 1: over and changed it for the better. M you know,

3395
03:31:43,320 --> 03:31:45,800
Speaker 1: that's our goals. We want our union to be to

3396
03:31:45,879 --> 03:31:49,680
Speaker 1: have that internal, vibrant discussion and debate about how the

3397
03:31:49,760 --> 03:31:52,480
Speaker 1: union should be working should work because we know that

3398
03:31:52,520 --> 03:31:55,240
Speaker 1: as nurses that we've got the skills in the capacity

3399
03:31:55,320 --> 03:31:57,920
Speaker 1: to have an impact on the others are said, we

3400
03:31:57,959 --> 03:32:00,280
Speaker 1: don't think that people who are paid out of our

3401
03:32:00,320 --> 03:32:03,039
Speaker 1: due should ever be afraid when a nurse opens their

3402
03:32:03,080 --> 03:32:05,840
Speaker 1: mouth and says I think things could be better or

3403
03:32:05,879 --> 03:32:12,920
Speaker 1: I don't like how this is happening. Yeah, And I

3404
03:32:12,959 --> 03:32:14,320
Speaker 1: think I think one more thing I do you kind

3405
03:32:14,320 --> 03:32:18,520
Speaker 1: of want to add is that you know, you were

3406
03:32:18,520 --> 03:32:22,800
Speaker 1: talking a bit earlier about sort of the risk of stagnation,

3407
03:32:23,280 --> 03:32:26,240
Speaker 1: and I mean, I think something that people don't want

3408
03:32:26,280 --> 03:32:29,080
Speaker 1: to hear, is it, like, you know, there's been a

3409
03:32:29,120 --> 03:32:31,280
Speaker 1: wave of militancy in the last few years, but the

3410
03:32:31,320 --> 03:32:34,720
Speaker 1: actual union like the actual unionization rate of the US

3411
03:32:34,920 --> 03:32:38,920
Speaker 1: keeps going down. And I think a big part of

3412
03:32:38,959 --> 03:32:41,680
Speaker 1: that is, you know, like even even in the periods

3413
03:32:41,680 --> 03:32:44,800
Speaker 1: when unions are really strong, they got into these sort

3414
03:32:44,800 --> 03:32:47,039
Speaker 1: of bureaucratic patterns where people were busy sort of fighting

3415
03:32:47,080 --> 03:32:50,160
Speaker 1: their own internal like like busy fighting their own rank

3416
03:32:50,160 --> 03:32:51,720
Speaker 1: and file, and then when the bosses came for them,

3417
03:32:51,760 --> 03:32:55,520
Speaker 1: they got destroyed. And I don't know, like it really

3418
03:32:55,600 --> 03:32:59,320
Speaker 1: seems like a moment where either unions are going to

3419
03:33:00,320 --> 03:33:02,320
Speaker 1: people like you are going to win and you get

3420
03:33:02,320 --> 03:33:05,480
Speaker 1: these rank and file movements that are changing what the

3421
03:33:05,560 --> 03:33:07,520
Speaker 1: union is to be what it's supposed to be or

3422
03:33:07,959 --> 03:33:11,119
Speaker 1: the last remnants of unionism is going to die. And

3423
03:33:11,200 --> 03:33:14,039
Speaker 1: that's I don't know, Like I mean, it's depressing, but

3424
03:33:15,080 --> 03:33:17,280
Speaker 1: that's like if you if you just look at the

3425
03:33:17,320 --> 03:33:19,760
Speaker 1: unionization rich chart, it just keeps going down and down

3426
03:33:19,840 --> 03:33:21,560
Speaker 1: and down, and every time it seems like it's hit

3427
03:33:21,640 --> 03:33:23,600
Speaker 1: to do low, it's like it finds another way to

3428
03:33:23,640 --> 03:33:27,040
Speaker 1: go out, which I guess is kind of a room

3429
03:33:27,080 --> 03:33:30,320
Speaker 1: way to look at it. But I don't know. I mean,

3430
03:33:30,400 --> 03:33:35,680
Speaker 1: it is very positive to think about how how there's

3431
03:33:35,800 --> 03:33:38,320
Speaker 1: organizing that's difficult. It's hard to get people to do

3432
03:33:38,440 --> 03:33:44,080
Speaker 1: some things right. It's difficult to pull people together for

3433
03:33:44,720 --> 03:33:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, um certain types of organizing when they don't

3434
03:33:49,040 --> 03:33:50,640
Speaker 1: feel like they have a say or a stake in

3435
03:33:50,720 --> 03:33:53,480
Speaker 1: what's going on. But I will say that like it

3436
03:33:53,520 --> 03:33:56,600
Speaker 1: has been, it is always eye opening when I watch

3437
03:33:57,240 --> 03:34:01,320
Speaker 1: my co workers pull together in this thing, and I

3438
03:34:01,360 --> 03:34:05,000
Speaker 1: think that there's that common experience at work and especially

3439
03:34:05,000 --> 03:34:09,080
Speaker 1: care workers right now, it is like that is driving

3440
03:34:09,320 --> 03:34:11,720
Speaker 1: us to do different things. There's a reason why we're

3441
03:34:11,760 --> 03:34:14,000
Speaker 1: having a rank and file movement in our union now

3442
03:34:14,560 --> 03:34:18,920
Speaker 1: and things aren't just continue like continuing to stagnate I

3443
03:34:18,959 --> 03:34:21,720
Speaker 1: think that people recognize that their union has to be

3444
03:34:21,800 --> 03:34:23,960
Speaker 1: fighting for them. I think that's a big thing. People

3445
03:34:24,000 --> 03:34:28,360
Speaker 1: want the union to fight, not to just kind of

3446
03:34:28,400 --> 03:34:31,520
Speaker 1: like sit there and you know, you know, people get

3447
03:34:31,560 --> 03:34:33,760
Speaker 1: really frustrated when they feel like their dues are being

3448
03:34:33,760 --> 03:34:37,879
Speaker 1: taken and they're not seeing that immediate benefit. The immediate

3449
03:34:37,920 --> 03:34:40,840
Speaker 1: benefit only comes when we pull together and we fight back.

3450
03:34:41,680 --> 03:34:45,440
Speaker 1: So I think that I totally see what you're saying.

3451
03:34:45,440 --> 03:34:47,240
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that comes down to people

3452
03:34:47,920 --> 03:34:50,200
Speaker 1: who get into these positions. And this is why we

3453
03:34:50,240 --> 03:34:54,280
Speaker 1: believe in the principle of like rotation and like and

3454
03:34:55,160 --> 03:34:59,840
Speaker 1: churning over the leadership as much as possible. Is that

3455
03:35:00,080 --> 03:35:02,920
Speaker 1: I think when you stay and no one should be

3456
03:35:02,959 --> 03:35:05,840
Speaker 1: in the position of organize yourself out of a job.

3457
03:35:05,959 --> 03:35:09,040
Speaker 1: Right if you're doing you're if you're being effective, you're

3458
03:35:09,160 --> 03:35:12,600
Speaker 1: organizing yourself out of a job. And I have organized

3459
03:35:12,600 --> 03:35:15,640
Speaker 1: out of myself out of some jobs. And right now

3460
03:35:15,760 --> 03:35:18,840
Speaker 1: I've organized myself out of telling people that there's a

3461
03:35:18,920 --> 03:35:20,879
Speaker 1: movement and that we've got to participate in it. And

3462
03:35:20,920 --> 03:35:23,119
Speaker 1: now I'm moving on to other things because I have

3463
03:35:23,240 --> 03:35:25,879
Speaker 1: like a whole crew of people in my hospital who

3464
03:35:26,040 --> 03:35:29,000
Speaker 1: are doing that organizing work without me having to do it.

3465
03:35:29,480 --> 03:35:33,040
Speaker 1: So I think that there's like it's can be little

3466
03:35:33,080 --> 03:35:36,040
Speaker 1: depressing when you look at like the raw numbers, but

3467
03:35:36,080 --> 03:35:37,840
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that is Like it's

3468
03:35:37,840 --> 03:35:42,039
Speaker 1: like if you if your union is clearly not great

3469
03:35:42,080 --> 03:35:44,160
Speaker 1: and people kind of complain about it, then yeah, no

3470
03:35:44,160 --> 03:35:46,760
Speaker 1: one's going to want to join it. Like if your

3471
03:35:46,840 --> 03:35:50,520
Speaker 1: union thinks it's more important to be a landlord or

3472
03:35:50,600 --> 03:35:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, stash forty two million dollars in the bank,

3473
03:35:53,080 --> 03:35:55,600
Speaker 1: then it is to invest that money in actually building

3474
03:35:56,360 --> 03:36:01,400
Speaker 1: organizational expertise or you know, building, And I see the unorganized,

3475
03:36:01,400 --> 03:36:04,200
Speaker 1: like Eric was saying, in places or like right to

3476
03:36:04,240 --> 03:36:07,120
Speaker 1: work states, which we've won. We have won contracts in

3477
03:36:07,280 --> 03:36:11,760
Speaker 1: right right to work states. But you have to be looking.

3478
03:36:11,920 --> 03:36:14,320
Speaker 1: You have to be constantly pushing for it. And if

3479
03:36:14,360 --> 03:36:17,000
Speaker 1: you can't just take a little win here there and

3480
03:36:17,040 --> 03:36:19,960
Speaker 1: then be excited because you just got another union to

3481
03:36:19,959 --> 03:36:22,959
Speaker 1: affiliate you like our union does. Like we need to

3482
03:36:22,959 --> 03:36:26,000
Speaker 1: be working on actually bringing more and more workers into

3483
03:36:26,040 --> 03:36:30,280
Speaker 1: our union and if we don't do that, it will die.

3484
03:36:30,720 --> 03:36:33,560
Speaker 1: But um, I think that there's a spirit in the

3485
03:36:33,959 --> 03:36:36,879
Speaker 1: you know that you know when you come to a

3486
03:36:36,920 --> 03:36:39,600
Speaker 1: place to work, with coworkers and you face common enemy

3487
03:36:39,680 --> 03:36:44,280
Speaker 1: and common problems, common conditions. You do see what it

3488
03:36:44,320 --> 03:36:46,440
Speaker 1: can look like when people decide to do something on

3489
03:36:46,480 --> 03:36:50,240
Speaker 1: their own. You know, to get back to MIA's point

3490
03:36:50,959 --> 03:36:55,720
Speaker 1: about declining unionism in this country. In order to, you know,

3491
03:36:55,800 --> 03:36:59,959
Speaker 1: to change this decline in unionism, we need to change

3492
03:37:00,520 --> 03:37:03,840
Speaker 1: who we are as union members. We need to You

3493
03:37:03,879 --> 03:37:06,840
Speaker 1: know that I'm not a big doctor phil fan, but

3494
03:37:06,920 --> 03:37:09,880
Speaker 1: he used to say that thing all the time. Well,

3495
03:37:09,879 --> 03:37:13,280
Speaker 1: how's that working for you? Unions need to take a

3496
03:37:13,280 --> 03:37:16,680
Speaker 1: look at themselves and say how, how how is this

3497
03:37:16,760 --> 03:37:21,880
Speaker 1: working for you? We are declining. Why do we continue

3498
03:37:21,920 --> 03:37:24,800
Speaker 1: to do the same thing we're doing over and over again.

3499
03:37:26,160 --> 03:37:29,200
Speaker 1: We need to change who we are. For example, as

3500
03:37:29,200 --> 03:37:31,760
Speaker 1: a nurse, a nurse needs to know when they stand

3501
03:37:31,840 --> 03:37:34,760
Speaker 1: up and speak out that when they stand up they

3502
03:37:34,760 --> 03:37:38,000
Speaker 1: won't be standing alone, that there'll be somebody around them,

3503
03:37:38,040 --> 03:37:41,320
Speaker 1: that other nurses are going to be there right behind them,

3504
03:37:41,360 --> 03:37:45,720
Speaker 1: backing them up. And that goes for any trade. You know,

3505
03:37:46,000 --> 03:37:52,880
Speaker 1: we we can't progress as workers without struggle, and there

3506
03:37:52,879 --> 03:37:56,760
Speaker 1: will be struggle. We need to march forward. We need

3507
03:37:56,800 --> 03:38:02,240
Speaker 1: to be able to say everybody that can be any

3508
03:38:02,360 --> 03:38:06,840
Speaker 1: union should be any union, and we need to expand

3509
03:38:06,879 --> 03:38:10,320
Speaker 1: ourselves as nurses. I mean, I don't want to harp

3510
03:38:10,400 --> 03:38:14,840
Speaker 1: on it, but this pandemic was devastating for us, and

3511
03:38:15,120 --> 03:38:20,879
Speaker 1: I obviously no nurses worked remotely. I should say no

3512
03:38:21,040 --> 03:38:24,039
Speaker 1: bedside nurse worked remotely. I know many of our nurse

3513
03:38:24,080 --> 03:38:27,959
Speaker 1: managers worked remotely and checked in on us through you know,

3514
03:38:28,080 --> 03:38:32,040
Speaker 1: online things, But for the most part, every nurse, bedside

3515
03:38:32,120 --> 03:38:38,280
Speaker 1: nurse was at that bedside. It was not it was

3516
03:38:38,360 --> 03:38:41,199
Speaker 1: not pleasant, it was it was something that I'm sure

3517
03:38:42,879 --> 03:38:46,480
Speaker 1: many nurses are probably in uh, you know, counseling for

3518
03:38:47,720 --> 03:38:51,880
Speaker 1: they were that traumatized by it. Many people had lost

3519
03:38:51,959 --> 03:38:55,080
Speaker 1: family members, just like the rest of the public did,

3520
03:38:55,240 --> 03:38:58,760
Speaker 1: yet they still had to continue to work. I think

3521
03:38:58,840 --> 03:39:03,120
Speaker 1: as a as a union, we need to change who

3522
03:39:03,160 --> 03:39:07,119
Speaker 1: we are. And like I said, I don't want to

3523
03:39:07,200 --> 03:39:10,480
Speaker 1: point fingers or anything that you know, people that are

3524
03:39:11,360 --> 03:39:13,680
Speaker 1: in the union now or the people are running against

3525
03:39:14,280 --> 03:39:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're good people, but we have a different

3526
03:39:17,560 --> 03:39:20,720
Speaker 1: idea and we want to bring a change to how

3527
03:39:20,760 --> 03:39:25,080
Speaker 1: the union runs. And I think that change will make

3528
03:39:25,200 --> 03:39:28,000
Speaker 1: us a stronger and better union and I think will

3529
03:39:28,080 --> 03:39:32,360
Speaker 1: be will have happier nurses and wind up with more

3530
03:39:32,440 --> 03:39:36,520
Speaker 1: activist nurses who will expand the union. It's going to

3531
03:39:36,560 --> 03:39:40,280
Speaker 1: be a word of mouth. You know, one thing. You

3532
03:39:40,320 --> 03:39:43,000
Speaker 1: can have the best organization in the world, but the

3533
03:39:43,080 --> 03:39:47,520
Speaker 1: things that are the best product, but what really makes

3534
03:39:47,520 --> 03:39:51,840
Speaker 1: your product worthwhile is word of mouth campaigns. People have

3535
03:39:51,920 --> 03:39:55,160
Speaker 1: to talk about you. People have to say, hey, you

3536
03:39:55,160 --> 03:40:00,600
Speaker 1: know that California Nurses Association that and then you they're

3537
03:40:00,600 --> 03:40:04,560
Speaker 1: really doing something. I want to be a part of that. Uh,

3538
03:40:05,000 --> 03:40:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, we need to you know, we've been pressing

3539
03:40:08,280 --> 03:40:12,400
Speaker 1: on a Medicare for all, single payer and and of

3540
03:40:12,440 --> 03:40:17,240
Speaker 1: course ratios for everybody, but we need to start organizing

3541
03:40:17,280 --> 03:40:21,240
Speaker 1: more and all those states where those workers suffer. Because

3542
03:40:21,280 --> 03:40:24,160
Speaker 1: I can tell you this right now. You know, I'd

3543
03:40:24,160 --> 03:40:27,960
Speaker 1: ever talked about it with John. Our hospital is filled

3544
03:40:28,000 --> 03:40:32,400
Speaker 1: with nurses from the South and they tell you, oh,

3545
03:40:32,600 --> 03:40:37,760
Speaker 1: I came to California for the ratios. They need to

3546
03:40:37,800 --> 03:40:41,160
Speaker 1: fight for those ratios back in Alabama and Mississippi and

3547
03:40:41,280 --> 03:40:44,480
Speaker 1: all the states they come from. We need to help them,

3548
03:40:45,240 --> 03:40:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, bring unions to the South. You know, the

3549
03:40:49,160 --> 03:40:53,199
Speaker 1: basic core of right of right to work it was racism.

3550
03:40:53,640 --> 03:40:57,360
Speaker 1: The racism is what drove right to work. It was

3551
03:40:57,400 --> 03:41:00,240
Speaker 1: the same people that brought you. Segregation is what brought

3552
03:41:00,240 --> 03:41:03,960
Speaker 1: you right to work, and uh, you know that's a fact.

3553
03:41:04,879 --> 03:41:08,560
Speaker 1: Oh and it's important for us that uh you know,

3554
03:41:08,640 --> 03:41:11,600
Speaker 1: we want to be an activist union and I'm not

3555
03:41:11,680 --> 03:41:16,360
Speaker 1: opposed to that, but we can do that by unionizing

3556
03:41:16,360 --> 03:41:21,720
Speaker 1: these hospitals and making those nurses bedside lives a lot better. Um,

3557
03:41:22,560 --> 03:41:26,000
Speaker 1: you know Stouton Lynn. It's funny, is that I always laugh,

3558
03:41:26,160 --> 03:41:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, John brings it up. I'm from originally from Canton, Ohio,

3559
03:41:30,760 --> 03:41:33,480
Speaker 1: and of course Stoughton Lynn taught I believe it was

3560
03:41:33,520 --> 03:41:37,080
Speaker 1: at Youngstown State. He was from. He was He spent

3561
03:41:37,160 --> 03:41:39,720
Speaker 1: the last part of his life after his Vietnam War

3562
03:41:39,800 --> 03:41:44,880
Speaker 1: activism in Youngstown, in the Youngstown area. And I think

3563
03:41:44,920 --> 03:41:47,320
Speaker 1: the last book I read by him was Bob Lee's

3564
03:41:47,560 --> 03:41:52,280
Speaker 1: and Zapatistas. You know, he was talking about the It's

3565
03:41:52,280 --> 03:41:55,920
Speaker 1: a great book. And not many people know about him.

3566
03:41:55,959 --> 03:41:59,200
Speaker 1: I knew about him in Ohio because you know, you

3567
03:41:59,240 --> 03:42:04,920
Speaker 1: know social justice work there. Uh you know at Walsh

3568
03:42:05,040 --> 03:42:09,320
Speaker 1: at that time it was Walsh College and then Walsh University. Now, uh,

3569
03:42:09,360 --> 03:42:13,400
Speaker 1: you know Joe Turma, the professor there, you know, was

3570
03:42:13,520 --> 03:42:16,480
Speaker 1: often talk about Stoughton Lynn and that's how I you know,

3571
03:42:16,720 --> 03:42:21,160
Speaker 1: started reading a lot of his works. Um, the things

3572
03:42:21,200 --> 03:42:25,160
Speaker 1: that he says about rank and file workers is something

3573
03:42:25,240 --> 03:42:28,480
Speaker 1: that we need to make part of the national conversation.

3574
03:42:29,440 --> 03:42:33,280
Speaker 1: And we need to get that message out. We need

3575
03:42:33,320 --> 03:42:37,879
Speaker 1: to to to tone down the big union actions and

3576
03:42:37,920 --> 03:42:42,600
Speaker 1: the big union talk and let's just make it a

3577
03:42:42,720 --> 03:42:47,279
Speaker 1: nurse's conversation. We always talked about our union about nurses values.

3578
03:42:48,040 --> 03:42:54,520
Speaker 1: Nurses valuables. Values are invaluable. Uh. They apply to every

3579
03:42:54,560 --> 03:42:58,039
Speaker 1: walk of life, every trade. And I think that's what

3580
03:42:58,080 --> 03:43:00,960
Speaker 1: we need to do. And I know that's what Mark

3581
03:43:00,959 --> 03:43:02,640
Speaker 1: would say if he was on the call with us.

3582
03:43:03,120 --> 03:43:05,480
Speaker 1: I just got a text from him. He's almost finished

3583
03:43:05,520 --> 03:43:09,480
Speaker 1: with our video, so he's working hard. I mean, the

3584
03:43:09,520 --> 03:43:12,440
Speaker 1: guy took two weeks of his own time. And that's

3585
03:43:12,440 --> 03:43:15,880
Speaker 1: another thing. Here we are, we are bedside nurses. He

3586
03:43:16,600 --> 03:43:20,800
Speaker 1: had to self teach himself how to make pretty high

3587
03:43:20,920 --> 03:43:26,400
Speaker 1: end quality videos. And we're not bought and sold. We

3588
03:43:26,440 --> 03:43:30,080
Speaker 1: don't hire anybody to do our work for us. We're

3589
03:43:30,120 --> 03:43:33,360
Speaker 1: doing this ourselves. We're bootstrapping it, as you know what

3590
03:43:33,440 --> 03:43:37,359
Speaker 1: they call bootstrapping it yourself. Up here. We are bootstrapping

3591
03:43:38,400 --> 03:43:41,920
Speaker 1: a campaign and a movement. I don't know if we're

3592
03:43:41,959 --> 03:43:45,039
Speaker 1: going to win, we are at least going to make

3593
03:43:45,040 --> 03:43:49,160
Speaker 1: a hell of an impression on people. And I hope,

3594
03:43:49,879 --> 03:43:54,200
Speaker 1: whether we win or lose, that impression goes far and

3595
03:43:54,320 --> 03:43:58,280
Speaker 1: that people listen to what we're saying and demand what

3596
03:43:58,320 --> 03:44:02,560
Speaker 1: we're staying for. What we want our union to be.

3597
03:44:03,440 --> 03:44:06,600
Speaker 1: We don't want to have an sciu like union. We

3598
03:44:06,680 --> 03:44:11,119
Speaker 1: don't want to uh like we're paying for services here.

3599
03:44:11,600 --> 03:44:14,920
Speaker 1: We want a union that listens to us and does

3600
03:44:14,959 --> 03:44:19,840
Speaker 1: what we want. Um, a nurse shouldn't have to beg

3601
03:44:20,480 --> 03:44:25,480
Speaker 1: a labor rep to say no. We said no to

3602
03:44:25,520 --> 03:44:28,120
Speaker 1: a last, best and final and our labor rep said no.

3603
03:44:28,160 --> 03:44:31,039
Speaker 1: This in our professional opinion, this is a good deal.

3604
03:44:31,720 --> 03:44:34,840
Speaker 1: Well guess guess what, Mia, We got ten percent more

3605
03:44:34,920 --> 03:44:41,160
Speaker 1: by saying no. And I know that that sounds greedy,

3606
03:44:41,200 --> 03:44:45,600
Speaker 1: but in reality, um, you know, we do get paid

3607
03:44:46,080 --> 03:44:49,959
Speaker 1: considerably more in California than another place in the country.

3608
03:44:49,959 --> 03:44:53,280
Speaker 1: But also, to buy a house in a bad neighborhood

3609
03:44:53,320 --> 03:44:56,560
Speaker 1: is a million and a half dollars, So it's so

3610
03:44:56,640 --> 03:45:00,280
Speaker 1: it's I have to drive an hour away just get

3611
03:45:00,280 --> 03:45:03,960
Speaker 1: to work. It is cheaper where I live right now

3612
03:45:04,040 --> 03:45:05,680
Speaker 1: than it is in the Bay Area. I could not

3613
03:45:06,080 --> 03:45:07,879
Speaker 1: get a house in the Bay Area at all. And

3614
03:45:07,959 --> 03:45:12,080
Speaker 1: we should be incorporating housing demands into our negotiations as well,

3615
03:45:12,200 --> 03:45:16,760
Speaker 1: like especially the years gonna be a landlord, Like come on, well, okay,

3616
03:45:16,800 --> 03:45:19,800
Speaker 1: how about we you know, the first public housing was

3617
03:45:19,840 --> 03:45:24,520
Speaker 1: really cooperative housing built by unions. Like there's no reason why. Um,

3618
03:45:25,080 --> 03:45:29,039
Speaker 1: you know these some of these institutions are like incredibly

3619
03:45:29,080 --> 03:45:33,480
Speaker 1: wealthy and building. Uh, you know, if we can we

3620
03:45:33,600 --> 03:45:35,959
Speaker 1: have the kind of power to bring them to you know,

3621
03:45:36,000 --> 03:45:39,760
Speaker 1: a screeching halt. We should be able to like, you know,

3622
03:45:39,920 --> 03:45:43,560
Speaker 1: get the kind of things that we need to live

3623
03:45:43,720 --> 03:45:46,240
Speaker 1: by in our community, like we should be living where

3624
03:45:46,280 --> 03:45:50,240
Speaker 1: our patients are anyway. And it's you know, and it's

3625
03:45:50,280 --> 03:45:54,680
Speaker 1: a way of bringing our bringing us ourselves into our

3626
03:45:54,720 --> 03:45:57,480
Speaker 1: community so that our community is you know that we're

3627
03:45:57,680 --> 03:46:02,879
Speaker 1: part of our community. Um. And you know, I think

3628
03:46:02,920 --> 03:46:06,280
Speaker 1: we're I'm just gonna say I'm gonna be waking up

3629
03:46:06,280 --> 03:46:08,840
Speaker 1: in six hours so that I can go back to work.

3630
03:46:10,000 --> 03:46:12,160
Speaker 1: And we want to make sure that people know a

3631
03:46:12,200 --> 03:46:16,720
Speaker 1: couple of key things. So there is an election happening.

3632
03:46:16,720 --> 03:46:21,120
Speaker 1: If you are a nurse in a CNA, California Nurses

3633
03:46:21,160 --> 03:46:26,320
Speaker 1: Association or National Nurses United and NOC like Hospital, there's

3634
03:46:26,360 --> 03:46:29,600
Speaker 1: an election happening. Ballots are being mailed out to you

3635
03:46:30,840 --> 03:46:36,600
Speaker 1: on channel tenth. We expect that they're going to start

3636
03:46:36,680 --> 03:46:39,680
Speaker 1: arriving a day or two after that. We are the

3637
03:46:39,680 --> 03:46:42,400
Speaker 1: shift Change slate, so the four of us are running

3638
03:46:42,400 --> 03:46:47,440
Speaker 1: for the Council of Presidents. It's Eric, Raina, John and

3639
03:46:48,200 --> 03:46:51,959
Speaker 1: Mark And if you want to find us on social media,

3640
03:46:52,040 --> 03:46:55,400
Speaker 1: we just got our Instagram account. We are called shift

3641
03:46:55,480 --> 03:46:58,400
Speaker 1: Change and on you. We're on TikTok Now we're going

3642
03:46:58,440 --> 03:47:02,000
Speaker 1: to be releasing some video Shift Change and and You,

3643
03:47:02,120 --> 03:47:05,120
Speaker 1: And then we're also going to have we've got our

3644
03:47:05,160 --> 03:47:09,280
Speaker 1: YouTube and Facebook set up as well. Look for us there.

3645
03:47:09,800 --> 03:47:12,320
Speaker 1: And we've got to go fund maybe because we've got

3646
03:47:12,360 --> 03:47:15,720
Speaker 1: to buy the materials that we are using to help

3647
03:47:15,840 --> 03:47:19,879
Speaker 1: organize with. Thankfully, by the sounds of it, our lawyers

3648
03:47:19,920 --> 03:47:25,040
Speaker 1: are going to be working for us for because they

3649
03:47:25,240 --> 03:47:27,480
Speaker 1: believe in what we're doing. And these are movement lawyers.

3650
03:47:27,480 --> 03:47:31,360
Speaker 1: These are not right wing people who want to fight unions.

3651
03:47:31,400 --> 03:47:34,800
Speaker 1: They want unions to be accountable to their workers and

3652
03:47:34,800 --> 03:47:38,199
Speaker 1: to be strong fighting unions. And that's our main goal

3653
03:47:38,320 --> 03:47:41,200
Speaker 1: is we think that our union could be one of

3654
03:47:41,240 --> 03:47:44,720
Speaker 1: the most powerful unions in the country if we organize

3655
03:47:44,720 --> 03:47:49,200
Speaker 1: and fight, and we organize by building our relationships on

3656
03:47:49,240 --> 03:47:53,359
Speaker 1: trust and solidarity, by constantly working to defend our contract,

3657
03:47:53,400 --> 03:47:55,280
Speaker 1: and we think that as we build that energy, we

3658
03:47:55,320 --> 03:47:57,640
Speaker 1: can take that to all the other things that we

3659
03:47:57,680 --> 03:48:01,040
Speaker 1: think are portness nurses. So we talked about nurses values.

3660
03:48:01,040 --> 03:48:03,280
Speaker 1: We know those are actually nurses values and not some

3661
03:48:03,400 --> 03:48:05,760
Speaker 1: person who decided that they're going to tag along with

3662
03:48:05,840 --> 03:48:08,560
Speaker 1: us and ride on our coat tails to you know,

3663
03:48:08,600 --> 03:48:13,600
Speaker 1: whatever political future that they think they have. You know,

3664
03:48:13,680 --> 03:48:16,240
Speaker 1: we are you know, this is our union, and we're

3665
03:48:16,280 --> 03:48:19,280
Speaker 1: going to make it you know, accountable to us so

3666
03:48:19,320 --> 03:48:21,760
Speaker 1: that we can change the world and change our workplace

3667
03:48:21,760 --> 03:48:24,480
Speaker 1: and make you know, being a nurse one of those

3668
03:48:24,560 --> 03:48:27,039
Speaker 1: kind of jobs that people aspire to and not something

3669
03:48:27,040 --> 03:48:28,879
Speaker 1: that they come into for two or three years and

3670
03:48:28,879 --> 03:48:34,280
Speaker 1: then leave because it's so terrible. So I don't know

3671
03:48:34,280 --> 03:48:36,560
Speaker 1: what else to say. I'm ready for chift change, Rain,

3672
03:48:36,640 --> 03:48:39,680
Speaker 1: Are you ready for chift change? Yep? And just like

3673
03:48:39,879 --> 03:48:45,039
Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela saying I never lose, I either win or

3674
03:48:45,120 --> 03:48:50,840
Speaker 1: I learn. Hell yes, hell yeah, I love this. This

3675
03:48:50,879 --> 03:48:52,840
Speaker 1: is the stuff I look for. Thank you so much,

3676
03:48:54,720 --> 03:48:57,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mia, thank you, thank you all for being on.

3677
03:48:57,600 --> 03:48:59,840
Speaker 1: This is great and I really hope you all win

3678
03:49:01,240 --> 03:49:04,400
Speaker 1: and if we win, bring us back. Yeah. I was

3679
03:49:04,440 --> 03:49:07,000
Speaker 1: about to say, yeah, give us a report back. We'll

3680
03:49:07,040 --> 03:49:09,200
Speaker 1: tell you, We'll tell you everything that happened, and maybe

3681
03:49:09,320 --> 03:49:11,920
Speaker 1: if we win, we'll have a nice victory party and

3682
03:49:11,960 --> 03:49:15,360
Speaker 1: maybe we'll let you come out, you and the rest

3683
03:49:15,400 --> 03:49:18,040
Speaker 1: of the It could Happen Here crew, Maybe do some

3684
03:49:18,120 --> 03:49:20,480
Speaker 1: live stuff for us, because I think be a kick

3685
03:49:20,480 --> 03:49:22,920
Speaker 1: out of that. Every time I hear a nurse say

3686
03:49:22,960 --> 03:49:25,320
Speaker 1: that I listened to It could Happen Here, a part

3687
03:49:25,360 --> 03:49:31,400
Speaker 1: of me just like does a little snoopy happy dance. Hey.

3688
03:49:31,480 --> 03:49:34,600
Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3689
03:49:34,640 --> 03:49:37,200
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe. It Could

3690
03:49:37,240 --> 03:49:39,520
Speaker 1: Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For

3691
03:49:39,680 --> 03:49:42,400
Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

3692
03:49:42,440 --> 03:49:45,320
Speaker 1: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3693
03:49:45,360 --> 03:49:48,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3694
03:49:48,560 --> 03:49:51,240
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

3695
03:49:51,280 --> 03:49:54,520
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,