WEBVTT - Mommy goes missing, cracking hubby's secret computer code wide open 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.799 Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.799 Channel one thirty two. Susan Cox Powell vanished from her 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.840 West Valley City home in December two thousand nine. Her husband, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.400 Josh was suspected in her disappearance. He killed himself and 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.200 their children in two thousand twelve. Susan has never been found. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.960 This case is still being actively investigated. A private investigator 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.560 working for Susan Cox Powell's family tells me they've made 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.240 significant progress in cracking a computer owned by Josh Powell. 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.360 If they can get into it, they think this could 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.440 be a big breakthrough in the missing person's case. No one, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.040 especially in two thousand nine, we put that kind of 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.400 encryption on their computer unless they were turning to hide stuff. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.239 Where we would really like to find on that car 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.720 drive is any kind of information that leads us to 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.159 a body. This is the most hopeful lead we've had 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.960 yet in the process of trying to find Susan. As 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.279 long as I live, I will never forget when Susan 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:03.040 Cox Powell did appeared. As long as I live. This 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.640 beautiful young I think she was a stockbroker and investment banker. 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.360 But what always sticks out in my mind is that 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:16.280 she was devoutly religious and a mother of two beautiful 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.240 baby boys. Beautiful. I've listened over and over and over 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.760 to her friends and neighbors that said she had such 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.560 a happy marriage to her husband Josh. Well, I didn't 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.880 see that at all when I first heard that Susan 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.319 was missing, and that the day she goes missing, she 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.480 had a lady over at the house, and I've I've 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.280 listened to what the lady has to say, who was 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.720 working on a quilt or some project for the church 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.240 that afternoon until about five thirty, and Susan was tired 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.400 and she took a nap, and so the woman was 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.400 there until five thirty. Everything was fine. Then we learned 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:56.280 that night, at about midnight, her husband, Josh Powell, decides 0:01:56.360 --> 0:02:00.800 to take the boys camping, repeat camping. I think there 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.080 were two and four at that age, or four and six, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.880 and it was sub freezing weather. It's like fourteen degrees 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.880 out and he gets in the car and takes the 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.840 boys camping at midnight on a Sunday night with a 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:23.160 work day the next morning. That's when I knew something 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.320 was horribly wrong. I'm talking about the disappearance of Susan 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.919 Cox Powell and to this day I sware it then 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.960 and I swear it now. I'm not letting go of 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.400 this case until we know the truth. I Nancy Grace, 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.959 this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.840 I want to go straight out to a very special guest. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.640 Um with me is Rose Winquist, the Susan Cox family 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:56.000 private investigator, high profile lawyer, the Cox family lawyer. And 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:02.160 Bremner my personal friend, my friend ben levitant telecommunications expert, 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.840 tech expert, and boy do we need him today. And 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:11.720 Denise Cox Ernst. This is Susan's sister that I think 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:17.440 a great deal of. Denise. It's wonderful to hear your 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.240 voice again, and I only wish I knew you under 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.480 other circumstances. That's what I wish, Denise. Before I get 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.160 to what I perceived, a big development in the case, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.160 and that is Rose Winquest possibly being able to to 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.880 crack a highly encrypted computer belonging to the husband, Josh, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.880 can you tell us set the scene for this discussion 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:49.640 The day that Susan goes missing, Denise, I had talked 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.960 to her about a week before. She was planning to 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:56.080 come out to Washington a little early to spend some 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.520 time with my children. And we were planning on you know, 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.560 her favorite show was Friends, and we were planning on 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.360 doing a friend day and she likes to do my 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.320 kids hare and you know, everything was fine when we go. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.600 You were going to watch Friends all day? Is that 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.240 what you're gonna? Okay? Because I'm planning a Harry Potter weekend. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.039 As soon as the children get out of and have 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.599 skill friend, We're gonna just lay around and watch Harry 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.240 Potter and and Narnia. That's what We're just gonna watch 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:23.640 it and watch it and watch it until I just 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.080 can't watch it anymore. So she likes the show Friends. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.559 That was our favorite. You know what I like hearing 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.719 this about her. So she loved Friends. So y'all were 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:36.040 gonna banjon Friends and do here? Right? Sounds fun? Well, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:37.800 we had we also had a game and we always 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.760 had a contestancy who knew more about the show, you know, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.520 her eye and the game was a lot of fun. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.039 But you know, we got off the phone and she 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.200 had to go, of course. And you know, a week later, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.400 my dad called me and I was at work and 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.919 he asked me, wait a minute, wait a minute, today's everybody, 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.440 don't get mad at me for interrupting. You said she 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.400 had to go. Of course, now I know what that means, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.160 But could you tell everybody else what you mean? When 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.480 I was an abusive marriage at the time, and from 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.680 talking to her, I know it seemed like she had 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.800 the perfect marriage to everybody from you know, she put 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.640 up a good front. But with our conversations, I knew better. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.599 And we both had to sneak our conversations with each other. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.719 And when we did it with our husband's home, we 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.919 both had listening to ears and we had to be 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:35.320 careful what we said. And when I got to talk 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.839 to her, it was barely for about twenty minutes, you know, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.839 twenty five minutes, you know, when our husbands were listening, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.080 and then he you know, one of them would encourage 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.080 us to get off the phone because you know, there 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.280 are attentions not on them and I could always hear 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.760 Josh in the background saying in other words, when Josh 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.279 was around, you couldn't talk to not really at it. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.040 So she had to get off the phone. Then, um, 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.280 a week later, she just I got a phone call 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.080 from my dad asked if I darted from her, and 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.280 I knew where she was, and you know, obviously from 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.919 that week before I that was the last time I 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.480 had heard from her. Thinking then, you know, at first 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.480 I thought nothing of it because she had you know, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.200 my thought, maybe she went to a friends or you know, 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:30.239 she was busy doing something for work. But when it went, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.120 you know, three days not hearing from her, I got 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.599 alarmed then because I would have heard from her if 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:44.000 there was something going on. We're pretty close. Then what happened? 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:51.359 Search parties um a lot of anxiety, wondering where she 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:56.000 is waiting by the phone. Look, you know, just waiting 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.680 it's a waiting game, as it's a waiting game now, 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.559 and wondering what happened to her? Well, wait a minute, 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.840 didn't you ask Josh? Didn't you ask Josh where Susan? 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.880 Why is she not? He wouldn't answer my phone call. 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.800 I tried calling her phone, and of course she didn't answer. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.240 And you know, when I talked to my dad, had 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:21.440 tried to find out from Josh where she was, and 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.040 I tried asking him. He didn't want to talk to 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.560 our family at all. He didn't like our friendly at all, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.080 but he didn't he didn't talk to me very much, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.200 and he knew how I felt about him, so he 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.040 wasn't forthcoming on any information. He dodged the family. I'm 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.360 just having a hard time even getting my mind around that, 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.640 because if I couldn't find David, I mean, and then 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.520 somebody wouldn't his family or his friends are the people 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.080 at his building where he works, wouldn't answer me. I mean, 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.280 I go set the place on fire for Pete say, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:07:59.960 and I don't understand why he wouldn't even speak to 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.720 you or answer your calls to me. That's a very 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.960 bad sign. Okay. What we know happened after that is 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.080 based on a relative there in town. The police go 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.640 to the house. They get to the home, it's locked 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:20.480 up tight, and nobody answers. Very significant fact and Bremner 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:25.120 Cox family lawyer, is that when that morning when she 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.080 didn't show up to work, remember the camping trip in 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.480 the middle of the snow with two little tots was 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.600 on a Sunday night. The next morning, Monday, she she 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.880 Susan Cox Powell, did not show up to work. That 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.320 was a problem. And so the police go to the house. 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.520 The house is sealed up tight. A relative goes, yes, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.800 open the window, break in. The police break wind. They 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.640 get entered the door, they find a wet a big 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.959 wet spot on the carpet in front of the love seat, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.760 which I guess is in the living room with din 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.800 with two giant fans acing it, blowing on it. The 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:06.320 house was left like that. They also significant significant see 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.000 her purse, her I d her car, keys, her credit cards, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.880 for driver's license, everything is in the home. So what 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.040 did she do leave on foot? Her car car is 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.120 not missing. What did she leave on foot in the 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:24.560 snow that night? When Josh was Josh Powell was asked 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.920 later and I've watched him, I've watched his face when 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.560 he answers where why didn't she go with you camping 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.480 that night? He just simply says she didn't want to. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.000 It would have been a cold day and h G. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.600 Double l and Bremner high profile Seattle lawyer and Cox 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.960 family lawyer. Then I would let David Lynch take John, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.760 David and Lucy out on a Sunday night and sub 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:53.040 freezing temperatures to go camping. Uh n O and uh 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.680 absolutely Nancy. And that should have been probably cause alone 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.520 for the police in West Valley City. The jurisdiction where 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.760 this happened. And Josh had her phone. Um, and then 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:04.560 he took the SIM card out, and then he acted 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.400 like he was calling her at work. Wait wait wait 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.120 wa wa what and and it's like drinking from a 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.839 fire hydrant. Okay, it's just too much at once. So 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.200 Josh Powell and I do the same thing. I've studied 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.120 it so much, I just rattle off these facts. Let 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.600 me take in what you just said. So the husband 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:25.280 Josh Powell has her cell phone. Okay, again, it would 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.040 be a cold and h double l but I'm gonna 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:28.439 part with my cell phone. That's how I stay in 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.240 touch with the children's school and David and my mom 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.120 and everybody else. All right. Uh, So he has her 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.240 cell phone, then he takes the SIM card out. What okay, stop, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.840 hold on, ben Levitan. What does it mean to take 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.079 a SIM card, s I Amazon mother, out of a 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.120 cell phone? What does that mean? Nancy? The SIM card 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:51.640 is everything that identifies your phone is yours. If you 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.520 take that out, it's essentially like throwing the phone away. There. Uh, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.280 the phone will not send out any information. You could 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.280 not trace the phone very easily once that sim cards 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.439 out Nancy, Now, what do you have to do to 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.280 get the SIM card out? Ben Levitan? Everybody? Ben Levitan, Yeah, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.800 longtime friend and colleague joining me out of Raleigh is 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.480 the telecommunications and tech expert. So what do you have 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.240 to do to get a SIM card out of a phone? 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.760 And why would you do that? Well, Nancy, Uh, there's 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.079 two types of cell phones. There's the ones where you 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.960 go to the store and they program all your information 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.360 into that phone. It becomes your phone. So when someone 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.240 calls you, boom Uh, calls automatically go to you. You 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.800 can easily make calls. So that's those types of phones. Uh. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.079 That would be Verizon and Spread have that technology. The 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.840 other technology, which we call G S M. You can 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.719 go get any phone in the world and all that 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.600 programming information about your phone is on a little sim 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.319 card like a little memory card. You can stick that 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.880 little memory card into any phone that's compatible, and all 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.839 of a sudden, you can use your phone. If you 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.520 take that little memory card out of the phone. Uh, 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.920 we can't find the phone. And it's very easy to do. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.199 It's intended to come out in and out of phones 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.240 very easily. Because we anticipated back early in the days 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.480 that people would want to have, you know, one type 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.360 of phone for work, and then want to have a 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.520 different type of phone when you went out not at night, 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:21.880 and you want to have a little phone you put 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.439 in your pocketbooks. So we made these little cards that 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.400 you could easily encourage people to buy lots of phones 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.839 and just move the SIM card around. But once that's 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.280 SIM card, I don't know who has the money. I 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.240 don't know who has the money to buy three different phones. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.199 But you're living, you know, in a different world from 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:43.520 they've been leviting. We have because an iPhone have a 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.839 SIM card in it. Uh. The phones that are for yes, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.640 they do. They don't easily come out. It depends on 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.640 the type of phone, Nancy. Some phones, Uh, the SIM 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.000 card comes in and out very easily. It's almost like 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.040 an ATM card where once you put the UH ATM 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.200 card into a a t M machine, that machine is yours. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.800 You know it. It's programmed for you. So on some 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.199 phones it's very easy to do. Sometimes let me ask you, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.719 this is how I compare it. I compare it to 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.360 a car without the engine. It looks like a car. 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.880 The doors open and shut. You can stick the key 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.440 in the ignition but without the SIM card, the phone 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.480 won't work. Without the engine, the car won't work, and 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.520 you can't see that on the outside. So he cracks 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 open the phone, according to and Bremner, and removes the 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.400 SIM card. That's something I didn't know, So what else 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.319 are you telling me? And Bremner? He takes a SIM 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.560 card and what else? Um? And then he calls acting 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.520 like he's just checking on her at work, and he's 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.880 very invasive. He gives a police statement that is very bizarre, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.880 as do the kids? Can I back up? So that 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.840 we already know that she's not at work, so her 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.280 car is at work. So why they they know she's 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.960 not at work? Why would he call her at work 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.960 pretending she's there. What did he say on those messages 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.040 just checking in? He I can't remember if he said 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.959 something about giving her a ride, but he clearly was 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.480 trying to cover his tracks, you know, after the fact, 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.760 and he knew she was coming, I mean, and it 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.280 was very apparent from his behavior. I want to pause 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:17.480 very briefly and thank our partners making our program possible. 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.280 It's legal zoom. As business owners out there, you know 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.200 how important is You've gotta keep moving forward. 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To 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.920 speak with our I a team that's pound to fifty 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.080 and say keyword grace. Pound to fifty, keyword grace. We're 0:16:51.160 --> 0:17:00.280 ready to help with me. The sister or Susan Cox 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.920 and these Cox Arenest and the Cox family five and 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:07.240 investigator Rose Winklist. It's very significant, I believe to the 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.760 two of you, and I'll start with Rose. What the children, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.680 the two little boys said about what happened that night 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.240 and the pictures that they drew rose. What has Susan's 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.000 children the two little boys said happened that night? Well, 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.719 to start, I think, um, when Chuck and Judy Cox 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.600 essentially got custody of the children, they began to disclose information. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.080 Having been now at the ages of five and seven, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.159 they started to remember some things or be more verbal 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.399 about things, and they started to disclose different things that 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.160 they remembered about that night they so called went camping 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.320 in the middle of the night. I think Josh left 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:59.080 probably around twelve or twelve thirty and they only had 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.679 one car by the way, so they knew when they 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.800 went over to Susan's house that morning that the kids 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.040 didn't show up for daycare, that no one had been 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.120 there because there was no tire tracks. There was snow 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.679 in the dryway and there was no tracks, so they 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:19.680 knew something was amiss. Now, just a back up for 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.320 a moment, if you don't mind, um. Josh actually, in 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.080 his interview with the police, removed his own simcard as 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.440 well out of his phone because he had a sense 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.480 that the police were going to confiscate his phone, which 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.080 they should have and then gotten a search warrant for it, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.920 but they didn't, and so when they took his phone 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.240 to look at it, the SIM card had been removed 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.000 from his phone as well. So that was a pretty 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:52.760 just sit right now, That's a fact. And I've studied 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.960 this so much. I did not know this. And you know, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.680 I'm a big fan of law enforcement because I have 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.200 been part of law enforcement. I'm a whole legal career. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.880 But I don't understand this. Why in the world would 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.600 they not confiscate his phone and SIM card and hers 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:13.640 too immediately? That is the million dollar question. I wish 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.160 I knew they should have. Have you asked them? Why 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.280 do you think they didn't pursue him as a person 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.720 of interest immediately? You know, I haven't personally asked them. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.080 I don't know if that question has been asked directly 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.160 to the lead detectives that was assigned to the case. Um, 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.080 and we have asked it during deposition, But I'm not 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.560 sure about that. Let's find out. And Brenner, I mean, 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:41.520 I don't understand it because I firmly believe if Josh 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.080 Powell had been arrested immediately, the two little boys would 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.440 be alive today. The boys are dead, okay, And I 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:55.200 firmly believe if he had been prosecuted immediately, this would 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.560 not have happened. I agree in Answing even such a 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.520 friend to the family and throughout this tragic ordeal that 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.480 involved the deaths of the boys and potentially Susan although 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.720 she's still missing. Um. I tried to get their records. 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.639 I went to Utah three different times trying to get 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.520 records at three different hearings procedures. And you know, they 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.680 were slow to look at him as a suspect, and 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.600 they kept calling him a person of interest when actually 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.560 search warrants eventually did issue in the case, but they 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.600 had to sealed investigation. It was very hard to get 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.160 information about the specifics of what, if anything, they were doing. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.040 All right, just tell me Anne, too many words? Are 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.399 they all tangled up in the Mormon church together? Is 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.199 that what it is? You? No, I don't know. They 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.760 were just they kept saying they couldn't prosecute without a 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.800 body kind of the that's not true. I mean, he 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.639 was with her that night, and he goes on this 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.400 big fake camping trip at twelve thirty at night out 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.760 in sub sub freezing temperatures with two little boys. My 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.679 question was back to Rose Winkrest. She's the Cox family 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.280 private investigator who was actually got a little crack in 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.880 the case right now. But what the children said? They 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:11.920 said the two boys said, Mommy went looking for crystals 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:18.120 in the minds. She went into the mind Daddy came 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:23.879 back and Mommy didn't. They had the children draw pictures 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.520 of the night she goes missing, that mommy disappears off 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.840 the face of the earth, and they have the picture 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.480 of Mommy in the car that night, but in the 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:42.800 trunk of the car. Right then, he should have been arrested. 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.960 What does nobody know? Children can be witnesses. Denise Cox Ernst, 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:54.520 this is Susan's sister. Why wasn't he arrested? I think 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.399 he should have been arrested when he came back with 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.359 nos and cards in the phone, I think he should 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.480 have been arrested. You know, when he said she three 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.840 went camping, he had no proof to couldn't give a 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.359 straight answer where he was. I believe he should have 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.160 been arrested. You know, two days after she went missing 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.320 and still hadn't returned. The majority, I mean, the rule 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.359 is majority. You look towards the spouse when there's someone missing, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.680 that's who they usually first investigate. And I don't know 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.639 why they didn't do that in this case. It's very frustrating. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.159 Let me come on, she's missing. He says that she 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.640 just didn't want to go camping, and the children draw 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.320 this picture. And I've used this technique a million times 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.359 when I was prosecuting a case where there was a 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:41.879 child victim or witness. You get them to draw. If 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.000 they cannot articulate or verbalize what happened, they can draw it. 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.160 Sometimes they simply can't say the words. Sometimes it hurts 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.600 to say the words. Sometimes they don't want to want 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:52.879 to say the words, so they'll draw you a picture. 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.440 Those pictures get me shown to a jury. What is 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.560 so not true? It just makes me sick. When we 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.680 were younger, we were really big, you know, because my 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.920 dad wasn't boy Scouts in the church, and my sister 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.760 and I went Igloo camping. So to hear that she 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.040 didn't want to go camping, nor would she ever allow 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.040 Josh to take him camping. That night without her with him, 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:18.639 we went into Igloo camping, we were hiking. We were 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.359 very outdoorsy person. This is not my Susan was not 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.800 a stay at home, do your hair and nail's kind 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.160 of person. She was out there and very active person. 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:31.400 She didn't get to drive the family vehicle to work. 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:35.200 Most of the time she rode her bike. So when 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.440 he says that she didn't want to go, that makes 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.080 absolutely no sense to me. I know her better than that. Well, 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:45.000 wait a minute, it's midnight. It's midnight and degrees. Of 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:47.200 course she doesn't want to go camping for Pete's sake, 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.439 but I don't. I don't see her letting the children 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:53.480