WEBVTT - Pando: Earth’s Oldest, Hugest Organism Is Trees! 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.560 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.080 dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.599 and there's Charles W. Chuck, Brian over there, and there's 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.799 Jerry and this is Stuff you Should Know. This is 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:26.640 a current contemporary edition. Chuck, Oh, yeah it is. Yeah, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.560 we're talking about Pando and Pando's kind of made the 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:37.560 rounds of the news lately, current contemporary edition of a 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.560 topic that could be tens of thousands of years old. Yes, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.479 that's right. Yeah, that's well. Put Actually, did you know 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.879 about Pando? Yeah, you saw the news lately. No, I 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.760 just previously knew about Pando. Oh. Really, that's kind of 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.120 awesome because I knew about the giant mushroom out in Oregon. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.040 Um it, I didn't know about Pando, and now I do, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.800 and we'll get to it. But Panda's Panda is not 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.959 doing so hot right now. Spoiler. Yeah, that is a spoiler, 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.080 isn't it. It's a sad giant forest. It is a 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.080 genetically identical forest. So let's let's spell it out for 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.920 But what Pando is you want to Yeah, it's a 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:26.400 it's an aspen forest aspen trees, which, by the way, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.839 far and away the best trees, best looking trees at least. Uh, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.559 it's certainly one of them, depending on what you're out for. 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:39.759 Uh in your as your tree fetish, well, I tend 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.440 to like the white papery bark with um black eyes. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.200 That's usually the kind of tree I like. So aspens 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.640 it for me. Yeah, So I mean aspens in general, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.120 before we get to what Panda is. They are their 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:57.000 medium sized. Uh, they're deciduous. They're generally between twenty and 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.440 eighty feet high, about three to eighteen inches in diameter. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.240 And like you said, they have that bark that's that 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:09.280 sort of smooth greenish white, yellowish white gray or white. 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.080 And uh, they have a little green in the bark, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.839 but from chlorophyll, which is kind of interesting for a tree. Yeah, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.040 it's um from what I saw unique among North American 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.359 trees that that um aspen bark actually is living. It's 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.480 like tissue that actually produces chlorophyll and carries out some 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.520 of photosynthesis for the tree, and most other trees don't 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.480 do that. But that explains why the bark is so 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.840 unique too. Yeah. So the aspen is known for for 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.239 a lot of things, but one of the things where 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:44.720 their leaves produced. They're they're really thin and firm, almost round, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.880 about an inch and a half to three inches in diameter, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.960 with a little you know, pointy apex. They look kind 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.400 of like a spade in a suit of cards deck 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.240 of cards. Yeah, sort of like that. For sure, call 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:01.360 a spade a spade unless it's an aspen leaf. But 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.560 the sound that they make is really unique. If you're 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.440 in the forest, in a grove of aspen and the 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.480 wind kicks up, it's a really unique and i say, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:18.200 very very calming experience because the stems are flat instead 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:24.720 of round and perpendicular to the flatness of the leaf. Wow, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.520 that was a really great description. So the the leaf 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.959 kind of moves around, and then the stem in ways 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.639 that leaves typically don't, they kind of trembles in the wind. Yeah, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.360 it's like a fluttery butterfly wing almost. And then because 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.600 the leaves are sparse enough, you wouldn't just look at 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.240 and be like, look at how sparse that tree is. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.600 But compared to some other trees, say like a maple 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.720 or an oak or something, the space in between leaves 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.320 is greater, and so that allows the sunlight to kind 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.760 of come in through the canopy of the aspen, and 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.760 when the wind blows and it gets all of those 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.119 leaves going, that has an effect on the sunlight too. Yeah. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.440 So that sound though, is uh specifically Pando is a 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.200 quaking aspen. Uh. It just the sound that it creates 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.880 is very very unique. It's not even just like a 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.600 regular calming of the wind through the trees. It's more 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:19.919 like a quack quack. That's a pretty good aspen quaking 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:24.320 aspen impression. It sounds like a duck. No, that's a 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.080 lot of people confuse it for ducks, So it's it's 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.640 actually a pretty good aspen. So that's the aspen in general. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.320 But go ahead and drop it, drop it on everyone's 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.720 head what Panda is, because it's pretty remarkable. Are you're 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.560 letting me do it? Yeah? All right, So Pando is 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:44.560 an aspen forest, an enormous aspen force, a hundred and 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.720 six acre aspen force. And you'd say, well, I could 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.520 name the woods in my backyard Todd or Jimmy, who 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.000 cares somebody gave a name to a forest. But no, 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.640 there's something very special about Pando. Pando is not just 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.039 a force. Pando is a forest of trees that are 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:06.239 all genetically identical because they all come from one massive 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:14.880 roots structure that forms by mass, the largest organism on Earth. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:23.279 that's pando thirteen million pounds uh tons. And uh. While 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.200 we would love to say every single one of these, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.640 maybe up to fifty thou trees is connected literally, some 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.839 of them might not be. But we did learn through 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.680 this research that you can be uh cut off if something, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.400 you know, happens to cut you off from your from 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.839 the roots of your neighbor, you can still be considered 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.560 part of that because you're still genetically identical, right, yes, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.320 and so um Quaking aspens are kind of unique at 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.599 least as far as trees go, but not necessarily as 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.440 far as plants go, and that they reproduce through something 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.640 called vegetative reproduction. And it's pretty straightforward stuff. If you've 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.160 ever seen, like saying, augustine grass or a strawberry or 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.560 something like that. It just sends out like a stem 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.800 or something like that, and then the stem, once it 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.800 gets to certain points, starts to shoot down roots and 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.520 then it starts to grow like another section of the plant. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.400 But it's still kind of like a new plant growing 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.120 out of the original plant's arm. It's all the same plan. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:28.560 It's one big organism. Um. And that's how Pando has 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.479 spread through this vegetative reproduction. Yeah. And this can happen underground, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.400 like in the case of Pando, it's not like you 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:41.360 see this, uh, like horizontal fence of tree branches all 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.400 along the ground. It's actually roots underground. Sometimes it can 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.479 go like a hundred feet and say, I think I'd 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.320 like to grow up now, Yeah, it feels like a 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.359 good spot. Why don't you grow up? And the little 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.520 sprout called the ramit says, I will watch, and Pando 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:04.400 goes whoa with the light. Yes, and it looks like 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.200 its own tree. But uh, whether connected or not, it's 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:13.520 usually connected. Um, it's it's the same tree. Right. So um, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.320 you said something that some of the trees in Pando 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.080 might not actually be part of Pando. There's a couple 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.360 of ways that can happen. Like you said. One, they 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.840 could be cut off physically, but even still it's still 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.680 considered part of the same group of trees, the same organism. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:35.240 And when you're talking about a like a stand of 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:40.480 genetically identical aspen trees, they're called a clone, like a 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.600 pack of them or stand of them. It's called a clone, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:48.280 so you can have physically cut off, genetically identical trees 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.840 that are still considered part of the same clone. But 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:56.880 being a tree, pando Um can also reproduce sexually. And 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:01.280 aspens are also kind of unique or peculiar in that 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.960 they can reproduce vegetatively, but they also reproduce sexually, but 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.520 they don't have the equipment for both sides of sexual 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.040 reproduction on the same tree. So a tree is either 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.080 male or female, and in the case of pando, Pando's 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.520 a male. But that's pretty interesting too. I think if 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.440 that we're talking about like the biggest organism on Earth, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.000 the most massive organism on Earth, but to know that 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.680 it has a name and that it's a male just 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.560 makes it all that more endearing, you know. Yeah, And 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.280 like you said, even though they do have flowers and sexes, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.079 it's they almost always reproduce vegetatively. Yeah, I think it's 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.560 starting to become clear that they actually produce sexually more 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.080 than we realize. But for a long time they're like, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:52.840 that's basically it for aspen. Yeah, and it's uh, like 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.800 there are plenty of aspen grows and clones that are impressive, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.280 but this is one where every thing kind of came together, 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.800 and we'll talk about all those different things, but everything 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.760 kind of came together in the right way just to 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:11.640 create something this massive, Right, Yeah, Panda lucked out. In 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.800 other words, yeah, they're not normally this impressive and large. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.440 No huh um. One of the things about like a 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.199 clone of aspen trees like Pando is that in one 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.000 of the reasons why they can get so huge is 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.880 one that vegetative growth, of vegetative reproduction. But also when 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.960 you have, like when you're covering a hundred and six 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.160 acres of land, you've got a like a lot of 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.600 different resources available to you, and you're interconnected, you're just 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.600 one organism. And this whole thing makes me think, like, Chuck, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.440 what are we really talking about when we're talking about pando. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.360 We're talking about the collection of individual trees that we 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.560 typically see as like as individuals. Are we really talking 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.599 about like the roots system? Is that the real organism 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.680 that we're referring to? Are you asking a little bit? 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:04.880 I think it's both. It's all the same, right, Okay, 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.040 I guess it is all the same, but but you 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.600 tend to think of like an organism is like, you know, 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.240 a tree is a thing, but a whole bunch of 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.240 trees that are all connected to a root system that's 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.640 just different in some weird way that I can't quite 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.760 put my finger on. Yeah. I like to think that 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:23.240 they're all just holding hands underground, right, but it's all 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.599 just one hand. Yeah. But like you were saying, uh, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.160 like the benefits of something like this is that they 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.800 are they do have different access to different things depending 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.280 on where they are in that forest. So like there 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.840 may be you know, three or four big old trees 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.920 down near the water that are just sucking up water 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.439 and sharing it with the trees near them. They can 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.640 just send that right down the old shared root pipeline 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.480 and say, I know you're thirsty over there, so why 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.040 don't you enjoy this spring water? Yeah, exactly, it's delicious 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.800 spring water. Um. They can also shuttle newt treents around 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.120 pando Can from one area to another, and so as 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.679 a result, you'll find aspens in some like really surprising places. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.079 They're really hearty, and they really they show up everywhere 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.480 from like kind of wet rainforesty type areas to semi 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.559 arid um kind of brush land, Like they'll grow everywhere. 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.800 And they have a huge range too. You can find 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:26.400 aspen in North America from Alaska down to Mexico and 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.720 from Vancouver over to Maine. So they have a pretty good, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.280 pretty good range. Uh, and they've grow just about everywhere. Yeah, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.760 but they need a lot of sunshine. The one thing 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.480 that um, the aspen does not like a shade, and 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.760 as their kryptonite it kind of is um. Moist soil 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:50.840 is the best. Plenty of sunshine and uh, gravelly slopes, 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:56.080 sandy sandy ground is great. But they are pretty um, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.360 pretty hardy as long as as long as you don't 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.000 have anything big that's creating a canopy nearby to block 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.440 out that sunshine. Yeah, because think about you've got some 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.680 shoots that grew up and they're like, oh, I'm in 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.120 a semi arid area, now i could use some water 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.480 over here, and it just sends it from the wetlands. 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:19.920 I just think that's amazing. Josh Love, Pando Chuck Love 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.439 message break. Okay, let's do it then. All right, Well, 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.480 now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.839 to learn a thing or two from Josh Pan Chuck. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:52.600 It's stuff you should know, all right, than alright, Chuck, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.520 So we could probably stop here, and I just I'd 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.120 stand by my statement about loving PANDO. I think PANDO 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.520 is just an amazing inter seing organism. But I think 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.760 like all aspen stands are now all clones of aspen 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.240 let's think they're really cool. But we haven't even begun 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.199 to scratch the surface and how interesting these things are. Yeah, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.560 you want to talk about fire, I do, because this 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.720 is one of the reasons why I love earth science, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.040 Like everything fits together, and everything has an explanation, and 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.320 if you mess with one thing over here, something else 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.800 way over here goes weird. I just love earth science 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.000 for that and this is a good example of it. Yeah, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.240 so in our forest fires episode, which I think was 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.480 a great one, and go back and revisit that if 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:38.960 you want to learn more about this kind of thing. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:44.320 But fire, as it happens, forest fires are kind of 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:51.760 great for aspens. Yeah, they thrive in fire pretty much 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.160 not in fire. It's a little little complicated, but it's 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.520 actually very simple. So um, So there's a few things 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.440 that happened like with fire. Supposedly, a wildfire when it 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.520 reaches an aspen stand will will sometimes die out because 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.920 aspens actually don't burn very well. They have really wet leaves, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.040 and their bark says pretty moist too, and so does 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.719 their branches, So they don't burn well. Um, but they 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.040 are sensitive to fire, and that they've kind of seems 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.480 like kind of evolved to respond to fire, but not 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.840 necessarily in the ways you think like they can burn, 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.400 especially their canopy, their tops can burn pretty pretty badly. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.800 But the way that they react to fire is if 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.400 fire comes through and wipes out some of their sprouts, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.840 those little ramlets, the seedlings basically that grow up from 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.960 the roots system. If fire wipes some of those out, 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.880 those things send like a hormonal signal to the rest 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.160 of the tree saying we've got this area covered. We 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 don't need any competition, just keep the sprouts in check here. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.320 When when those things are gone and those hormonal signals 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.440 are lost to the tree responds by shooting up many, 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.880 many times the number of sprout that were lost to 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.040 fire and repopulates an area that's been ravaged by fire 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.160 very very quickly and comes to dominate it for the 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.280 next hundred, two hundred, possibly thousand years. Yeah, twenty or 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.560 thirty years is all it takes. Uh, if an area 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.040 has been wiped out by wildfire to get that aspen 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.360 grove is plentiful or even more so than it was before. Uh. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.560 And they do this because, uh, well, the conifer is 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.800 sort of the enemy. We like to think all trees 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.880 like each other, and they probably do emotionally, but the 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:40.080 conifer is what really provides that that upper canopy that 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.680 that is really bad for the aspen. So during a wildfire, 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.040 the aspen is fire resistant to a certain degree because, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.640 like you said, with the wetness of the leaves and 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.160 twigs and branches. But those conifers go up like a match, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.320 so they're killed off first. A lot of times, like 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.480 you said that, the aspens are just left and they're great. 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.680 We we got rid of those jerky conifers over there, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.200 and now we're good. But even if it does kill 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.760 it all out, the aspens grow up a lot faster 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.000 than the new conifers do, so they basically sort of 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.240 beat them to the punch post wildfire, right exactly. And 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.160 not just wildfires. They show up after like mud slides 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.280 and rock slides and landslides and avalanches and everything you 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.400 can think of that could wipe out a forest. You're 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.880 gonna if if it's within the aspens range, you're gonna 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.720 find aspen there first. And you know, we were talking 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.040 about how one of the things about it is that quaking, 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.680 trembling sunlight that allows filter light through well. That obviously 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:44.160 allows saplings of um aspen to shoot up and grow. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.960 And and as you were saying, when the conifers come in, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.680 they block out that sunlight, and so the aspen seedlings 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.360 don't have any kind of chance at growing up as 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:59.600 the conifers start to uh interlope through the borders. I 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.640 think that right interloped through the borders of the clone, 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.240 the aspen clone, and then eventually make their way further 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.639 and further in. And then if everything's going well for 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.960 the aspen, and as is the case with nature, fire 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.240 comes along wipes all the conifers out and the cycle 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.240 starts again. And through this an aspen clone can live 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.040 for a very very long time as long as there's 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.280 a cycle of fire that doesn't come too frequently and 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.120 keep the aspen from growing back or come to infrequently 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.920 and allow the conifers to really take over and kill 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.359 off any new growth in the aspen clone. Yeah, if 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.840 it wasn't for like if America, if North America had 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.399 never had humans here and it was just allowed to 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.600 do whatever happens, Uh, there would be a lot more fire. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.960 You know. Fire suppression is a is a human thing 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.040 because we like to put out fires for the most part. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.800 And if that had never happened, the United States would 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.800 have I don't want to say it would be largely aspen, 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.919 but there would be a lot of aspen forest and 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.480 forest grows, yeah, and the ones that are around still today, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.920 it would be in a lot better shape because I mean, 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.760 just another way to put it is aspen grows need 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.200 fire to thrive. Yeah, just as simple as that. It's 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.560 really really interesting. So um, one of the things that 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.840 I ran across I kept seeing was that a lot 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.119 of the and I got the impression that was like 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.600 old time or stuff. And I was right that you 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.840 can you can tell one aspen grow from another, like 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.240 a clone from another clone, because they'll grow up against 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.800 each other and sometimes intermingle. Um. Sometimes in the spring 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.200 you can see the leaf formation kind of come out 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.240 in certain ways, but really in the fall you can see, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.440 you know, one aspen clone from another one will have 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.280 like a like a brilliant gold other will be like 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.399 a scarlet red or something like that. And then in 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.800 the fall you can kind of see the boundaries between 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.760 one aspen clone and another aspen clone. And for many 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.760 of myn of years, that's just how they did it. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.160 And then genetics came along and they said, yeah, you're 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.159 wrong about a lot of this. Yeah. So like the 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.880 old timey researchers would say, look at those twenty five 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.879 trees all grouped together. They have the same exact bright 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.159 yellow color. Uh so that's that's all one clone. And 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.800 these guys over here red. But like you said, when 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.480 they actually finally got the technology to check, that was 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.560 not necessarily the case, and they'd walk away like kind 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.760 of dust in their hands off and fine, going off 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.960 to the no after before they're like, it was a 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:40.120 fine days work using my peepers to to tell one 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.359 clone apart from another. Peepers. I know that word. I 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.360 came across it again. You remember that episode. Oh yeah, 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:49.919 I think that's one of the worst slang terms of 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:54.200 all times. Peepers, one of the worst non offensive slang 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.119 terms of all time. Yeah, that's a good that's a 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.919 good call leaf peepers. Yeah, and that the whole thing 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.960 the genetic zo is. For a while there that was 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.720 causing a little bit of uh, well, I mean just confusion. 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.840 I guess it's not. It wasn't like the end of 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.200 the world or anything, but it was a little confusing 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.480 because at one point, like you know, thirty years ago, 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.159 they the scientists were there watching what they thought was 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.120 that single clone of aspen, and they thought, oh my god, 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.879 we've just learned something. This this this tree or this 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.359 you know, this clone has actually changed sex. It's amazing. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.760 It's producing pollen this year and last year it produced flowers, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.960 and oh my god, what a breakthrough. And then now 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:40.760 that we have genetic testing, they're like, oh no, that's 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.760 actually two different clones. Yeah, when they started looking at 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.720 at um some of those trees more closely, like, yeah, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.960 they look alike, but actually this is they're not genetically identical. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.440 They're not part of the same Aspen clone, but they 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.639 could still be a direct descendant from that Aspen clone, 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.240 because remember and aspens reproduced. They can do it one 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.720 of two ways, vegetatively, which produces trees that are genetically 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.480 identical to other trees that have sprouted up from the 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.280 same root system, or they can do it sexually um, 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.280 and the seeds that come out are um are not 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:22.720 genetically identical, So you can have offspring and genetic genetically 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.080 identical clones of the same tree all intermingled in the 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:31.359 same little area. It's pretty fascinating, it is. Uh. And 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.240 as far as age of these things, it kind of 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.919 depends um on where you are. Like, usually an aspen 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.080 tree won't live more than a hundred and fifty years, 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:45.960 occasionally up to two hundred in in Colorado, where Panda is. 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.840 I just love saying his name. I know, it's so cute. 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.560 It's close to Panda, that's why. That's definitely why. But oh, 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.680 it's nice of fat on the end, so it looks 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.960 like it's got some chubby cheeks you just want to pinch. 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.520 Probably does. As far as as Panda goes in Colorado, 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.040 they usually don't get to be more than about seventy 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.199 five years old. And it's not like you can go 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.280 to a clone either and pluck out what you think 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:11.920 is the oldest tree and say this is how old 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.280 the clone is, because it may be oh yeah, it 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.399 may be the newest tree. That's why I'm like, Okay, 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.760 so is the organism really the root system if a tree, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.399 if a tree just like dies. I think around the 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:27.520 area where Pando grows in Utah, uh, I think on 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.040 the Colorado Front Range is what it's called. They said 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:36.040 Colorado Emit Colorado Front Range, Colorado Front Range, so um, 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.119 in that area they usually live that well we call trees, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.640 but what are really just stems growing up from Pando's 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.040 root system. Those things live for about seventy five years. 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.920 The oldest aspens live for about two hundred years. Pando 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:54.640 is way way older than that, even by the most 0:22:54.840 --> 0:23:00.000 conservative estimates. Yeah, I mean they say thirteen thousand years 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.960 old to eighty thousand years old. Yeah, and I think 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.920 thirteen thousand is really hedging bets because they're like, well, 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.399 that's about when the last ice age ended, so Pando 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:12.960 probably couldn't have lived through that. But I was looking 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:17.080 at ice sheet maps. There was not an ice sheet 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:21.040 anywhere near where Panda's going. So it's it's entirely possible 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:25.120 with a hardy and resilient as um aspen stands are 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.760 that Pando is as far far older than that. You 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.720 mean the ice sheet map on your bedroom wall. He 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:33.800 just got out of bed, went let me look at 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.080 this again. Well, you haven't been over for a while. 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.440 I haven't pasted to the ceiling, so I don't even 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.240 oh man, just lay there in point. I'm like, you're 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:47.240 really getting efficiencies the laurentide kind of day. That's great. Yeah, 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.080 uh yeah. So I mean and this one article sent 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.880 over the said in principle, clones may even be essentially immortal. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:59.480 That's you know. But yeah, they've they hedged it within principle, 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.159 like and it can die from disease like aspen or 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.520 they're not like indestructible. There's all sorts of things that 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.280 can hurt them. Because of their really soft bark, they're 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.680 susceptible to boring insects and diseases that can come from 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:15.080 that um. A lot of birds that bore live in 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.359