1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Can'st play goun. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: Well, this is Buddsnight, the host of Taking a Walk, 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 2: Music History on Foot, and you could follow us wherever 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: you find your podcast Apple, Spotify, the podcast Playground and 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: kindly share it with a friend and leave a review. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 3: Today we have a very special virtual guest. The best 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: selling novelist of so many great stories Mystic River, Gone 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 3: Baby Gone, Shutter Island. His great novels turned into amazing movies, 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 3: Dennis Lahane. His new book is called Small Mercies and 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 3: it's described as a jaw dropping thriller set in the 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: days of the nineteen seventy four Boston school segregation crisis. 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Well, welcome Dennis Lahane. Next on Taking a Walk. 13 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: Well, Dennis, thanks for being on Taking a Walk, and 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 4: congratulations on the release of the new book, Small Mercies. 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: Oh thanks a lot. Thank you. So take us. 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 4: Back if you can to what it was like literally 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 4: taking a walk through those Dorchester neighborhoods back in nineteen 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: seventy four, of those big row houses and everything. 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: What was that like? I mean it was it was 20 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: for me as a kid. It was wonderful right up 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: until you started to see the graffiti and then you'd 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: start to see. I mean, imagine seeing KKK in Boston. 23 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: That to me is just burned into my memory. You'd 24 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: see kill all the Nwards, You'd see Edwards stay out. 25 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: It was. It was a crazy, crazy time. This was 26 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, Vietnam was winding down, Nixon just resigned. I mean, 27 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: it was. It was a pretty historic summer. And that's 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: the same summer they desegregated the you know, the public schools. 29 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: And Bill Russell, as a great leader for the Boston Celtics, 30 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 4: often talked about the difficulty of being an African American 31 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: during that period too correct. 32 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. I think if you were look, 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: there were two there were two very clear issues that 34 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: were happening in Boston that summer. One was desegregation, which 35 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: absolutely had to happen. It had been delayed for nine years. 36 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: The Boston School Committee had blocked it for nine years, 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: and it had to happen, and it had to happen 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: right then, and it had to happen, you know, without question. 39 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: And then there was the other issue, which was the 40 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: method by which it was, which was busting and it 41 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: being I believe that if the suburbs had stuck with 42 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: it and they pulled out at the eleventh hour and 43 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: left Garrity and the neighborhoods holding the bag. I believe 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: that if it had been a county wide desegregation of 45 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: all schools, that it would have been a raging success. 46 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: But because it was dropped into the poor neighborhoods like Southe, 47 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: like Dorchester, like Charlestown, it gave them a one more 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: reason to feel as if the powers that be were 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: telling them what they were going to do, whether they 50 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: wanted it or not. And b it stoked a racism 51 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: that had that had been lying, not dormant, but I 52 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: think quiet and until that moment and then it just exploded. 53 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: It just was like ripping the you know, ripping the 54 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: band aid off a scar. 55 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 4: What was the soundtrack musically during that period that you recall, 56 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 4: either listening on the radio or what was popular then? 57 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: Oh, on the radio, Yeah, it's even in the book. 58 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: In the you know it was Don't let the Sun 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: Go Down on Me. I remember it was a big 60 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: song that summer. I think there was things like you know, 61 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: the Night Day Drove Old Dixie Down, I think was 62 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: a big hit. It was like Tony Orlando and Don 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: and stuff like that was it was big. Maybe Seasons 64 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: in the Sun might have been around that time. I'm 65 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just reaching back here. You know, my 66 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: mom would listen to WHDH Jess Kine on WHDH because 67 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: they had this. They had this. Every hour, they would 68 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: give you a number. I'll never forget this, and they 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: would give you this number. It would be like say 70 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: one O three eight point three three, and it was 71 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: the magic number, and you would call in and if 72 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: you could get through the busy signal, which you never could, 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: you would and you were the tenth caller, you would 74 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: win that money. And they would give this away every hour, 75 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: every hour, on the hour. So my mother constantly had 76 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: whdh H. So whatever was the crappy pop songs of 77 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: that time, I knew them all. And there were some 78 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: bad ones, right, there were some really bad ones. There 79 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: were some really bad ones. They're still stuck in my head. 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 4: But it's an interesting backdrop to such a crazy period 81 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 4: that the book focuses on with that, you know, that 82 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 4: pop music and you know, just that really tense period. 83 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was a it was a very it's 84 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: a very strange thing to see people who wave at 85 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: you and smile at you and are you you know, 86 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: would you know? You know, I live right over the 87 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: border with with with South Yea and Dorchester. It was 88 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: the first neighborhood south of South Austin. And to see 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: these people who you know, would help shovel your walk 90 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: if you ask them to, you know, I mean just 91 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: just you know, good solid people. And then simultaneously those 92 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: people are torn rocks at buses with school children in them. 93 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: And you can't get your head around that at nine. 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: It's hard enough to get your head around that at twenty. 95 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know, it's a very it's a very 96 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: strange thing to try. And I watch my kids go 97 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: through this. Now, how do you reconcile not only the 98 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: bad that's in good people, but the good that's in 99 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: bad people? Like, how do you how do you how 100 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: do you connect those two? You know? I don't, I 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: don't think. I think it's a lifelong process. 102 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,559 Speaker 4: And your inspirations as a writer really have always gone 103 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 4: to themes of crime and corruption and intensity. So I 104 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 4: have to think at nine years old, that's one of 105 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 4: the things that happened that really shaped you around small mercies. 106 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 5: Oh without it out, without it out, Yeah, you just 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 5: you're I think when I was writing this book, one 108 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 5: of the things that was really surprising to me was 109 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 5: it's a dark book. 110 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's a dark book. It drops the 111 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: hammer and it just keeps going and it never stops. 112 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: It's like it's a one way, you know, elevator drop 113 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: to hell in a lot of ways. But writing it 114 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: was a really pleasant experience. It was uplifting. It was 115 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: I think it was because I was purging a lot, 116 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: and I was purging a lot of things that nine 117 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: year old me had needed to purge, and so I 118 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: started to feel as overwhelming sadness as I was writing 119 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: the book, and I realized that I was really just 120 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: trying to process my own sadness at that age, because 121 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: I just couldn't make sense of any of this, you know, 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: and the vitriol, the level of vitriol. I mean, we're Bostonians, right, Buzzy. 123 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: You from here. 124 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 4: I've lived here much in my life. I'm originally from Connecticut, 125 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 4: but I've been here since the early nineties. 126 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: Got it, So I grew up in Boston. One of 127 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: the things that is really common, because it's it's such 128 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: an immigrant based culture, is you know, they they have 129 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: a common way of saying, oh, the Polls, Oh, the Irish, Oh, 130 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: the Jews, oh, the Italians, right, you know, because it's 131 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: very European in that way, and there's something kind of 132 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: with a soft eye roll, and it's and it's it's 133 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: almost a sweetness to it in a strange way. You know. 134 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: That sweetness disappears when they say, oh, the Blacks completely 135 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: disappears and then they're you're not using the word black, 136 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: and and they was. I think I was shocked by 137 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: that because at first, when I was nine, I thought 138 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: it was all part of the same stew. But what 139 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: busting did was say, no, you wouldn't be reacting this 140 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: way if they were busting in Italian kids from the 141 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: from you know, if it if it was a neighborhood's 142 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: rights issue and they had decided to switch the population, 143 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: say of South Boston High and Revere High, so that 144 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: you're switching Italian American kids with Irish American kids, would 145 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: there have been the same level of vitrio. Absolutely not. 146 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: Would there have been a legitimate anger over, hey, you're 147 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: forcing us to do something that we don't want to do. Yeah, sure, absolutely, 148 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't have reached this level of Bridge that 149 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: was particular to African Americans coming into our neighborhoods, is 150 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: how they looked at it. Do you feel Boston is 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: ever going to shake this? No, that's the that's the 152 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: real legacy of this is because I was nine, I'm 153 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: sitting there and I'm going, what are we doing on what? 154 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: What are we doing on the CBA? What is Walter 155 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: Cronkite doing talking about my city? That's it was national 156 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: You have to understand how big it was. It was 157 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: leading the national news every night for weeks. Was the 158 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: was the bussing crisis and they started having to bring 159 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: in state troopers, you know, and they started to have 160 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: to bring in the city cops to escort these buses 161 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: up the hill. That was national news. And so everybody 162 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: looked and we became a symbol of East Coast racism. 163 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: And that's I don't think the city will ever shake it. 164 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: Maybe one hundred years from now. But we're talking, you know, 165 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm writing about it fifty almost fifty years full years 166 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: after it happened, and it's no, it's right there, like 167 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: very fresh in the rare view mirror. 168 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 4: Could you go back in time and give your younger 169 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: self writing advice maybe that you would sort of consider. 170 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: No, No, because I got great writing advice, you know, 171 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: very young, sixteen. You know, the first thing I ever 172 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: taught was, you know, write what you know. What that 173 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: means is. That doesn't mean if you come from a 174 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: family as a dry cleaning business, that you write about 175 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: a family from a dry clean you know you're right 176 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: about the dry cleaning business. It means right about what 177 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: you know. It means that most universal things will have 178 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: happened to you by yours. By the time you're a 179 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: certain age, you'll have had your heart broken, you'll have 180 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: lost your illusions, You'll have understood both the taste of 181 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: victory and this sting of defeat. You will know all 182 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: of these things that are super important to every human being. 183 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: That's what right what you know means doesn't mean you know, 184 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: my dad was a foremant at Sitisan Roebucks right right 185 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: about Seian Robock. No, you know. It means right about 186 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: your broken heart, right about your disillusionment, right about your triumphs, 187 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: right about your happy moments, whatever you know through the 188 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: filter of characters, through the filter of other things. And 189 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: I got that lesson very young. I also grew up 190 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: clearly in a very interesting time. And if you grow 191 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: up in a very interesting time, you're giving a gift 192 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: as a writer in an interesting time, in an interesting place. 193 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: I think, you know. People say, how you know I 194 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: get credit for both characters and dialogue, and I'm like, 195 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: if you grew up in my neighborhood and listen to 196 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: the way people spoke and looked at how just wonderfully 197 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: nuts everybody was, you'd write good characters too. It's not 198 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: a lot hard, you know. So do you go back there? Ever? 199 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: I go back a ton, but I haven't been back 200 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: because of COVID. I used to go back every single year. 201 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: Every single year, I'd take my daughters to a Red 202 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: Sox game. I'd see all my buddies, and then COVID 203 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: hit and I haven't done it. But the last time 204 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: I was there, something truly magical happened, which was I 205 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: took my daughters and my wife and we went by 206 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: a house where I grew up and it was being 207 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: It was literally they were moving trucks on the street, 208 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: and everybody was that the people who'd been living there 209 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: since my dad sold it were moving out because the 210 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: house had sold. And I walked up with my daughters. 211 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: It were little, little time and said, hey, how you doing. 212 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: I grew up here. Can I take a look? And 213 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: they were like sure, they didn't care. They were leaving, 214 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: and I walked in and I took my daughters to 215 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: every room in the house where I and I could 216 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: still remember. They were running around from room to room 217 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: and just saying, Daddy used to be play with Uncle 218 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: Jerry here and Daddy used to you know. It was fantastic. 219 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: It was the greatest gift. Those people were so kind. 220 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: And the guy said to me, oh, I got to 221 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: ask you something. I wanted to know this for years. 222 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: And he opened up this door and on the other 223 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: side of the door was a wall and he said, 224 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: what's there? And I said a staircase. He was like, 225 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: there's a staircase on the other side of that wall. 226 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I don't know why I got 227 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: threw up a wall. I don't know why the owner 228 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: threw up a wall. But yeah, it was just the 229 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: case right there. Amazing. It was magic. It was magic. 230 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: That was the last time I was in Boston. 231 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 4: So in closing, Dennis, as we think of our divided 232 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 4: country today, what lessons are in small mercies that apply. 233 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: Now, we're all idiots. We're all the same idiots. Stop 234 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: acting like that your anger is special, that your unhappiness 235 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: is special. Stop trying to wrap it into something, some 236 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: sort of movement, and just accept that we're all the 237 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: same idiotic species. And I don't care what color you are. 238 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't care what your ideology is. I don't care 239 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: what your religion is. We're all the same idiots. And 240 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: I really feel like if you could get there. You know, 241 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite lines is from a movie 242 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: I love called Bull Durham, you know, and he says, 243 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: why are you so nervous? And he says, because my 244 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: dad's in the stands, And Costner says, he's your dad. 245 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: He's as full of shit as anyone. I love that, 246 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's just like, where's all 247 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: just we need to I mean, when your ideology allows 248 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: you to pick up an AR fifteen a machine gun 249 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: and go shoot a bunch of children in a mall, 250 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: your ideology is bullshit, like it just it needs to stop. 251 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: It needs to stop to just we need to stop 252 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: with the rage and the hate. And I think that 253 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: starts by just saying you know, we're all the same. 254 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: We're all the same, and we're not. We're a couple 255 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: of steps above, and the rest of the animals like 256 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: not by much. You know it. Just ease up, man, 257 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: live your life, Let people live their life. Let people 258 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: enjoy their lives and protect their kids. That's it. That's 259 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: that's the only advice I got. And Bobby in the 260 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: book Small Mercy says something very similar along those lines. 261 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: You know, you're amazing. 262 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 4: Your work's amazing. I'm grateful that I had John, And 263 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 4: congratulations on Small Mercies. 264 00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 265 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: Buss Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify 266 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,239 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.