Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody.
Speaker 2: It is Sunday, August sixteenth, And there is a fine
Speaker 2: line between love and love bombing, and with that, welcome
Speaker 2: to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 3: Supposed to be a fine line between love and hate?
Speaker 3: Isn't that the way you goes?
Speaker 4: Yes, that is what they usually say.
Speaker 1: Okay, but there's a fine line between that.
Speaker 3: Love bombing is something I only am up on the
Speaker 3: past couple of years because you started talking to me
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: It sounded like a good thing to me.
Speaker 5: I get it, and at first it does feel like
Speaker 5: a good thing, and oftentimes most people don't recognize it's
Speaker 5: happening to them until the love bombing shifts into something
Speaker 5: else and sometimes more sinister, borderline abuse abusive.
Speaker 4: It goes from being effusive.
Speaker 5: To controlling, and that is where psychologists step in and
Speaker 5: say women and men who are in these types of
Speaker 5: relationships need to pay attention to the red flags because
Speaker 5: it could just be ick or annoying, or it could
Speaker 5: actually be controlling and abuses.
Speaker 3: I got so many questions throughout. I know you've got
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff in front. This is one of
Speaker 3: those episodes, folks, where she has she has a whole
Speaker 3: list of notes and things in front of her that
Speaker 3: she's gonna hit me with that she's just gonna let
Speaker 3: me react or overreact to perhaps. But I got a
Speaker 3: bunch of questions already, and the first one is is
Speaker 3: this mostly something done by men to women or women?
Speaker 5: It is, yes, absolutely, that is because it's the courtship,
Speaker 5: it's the chase, it's the you know, the conquest, so
Speaker 5: to speak.
Speaker 3: So yeah, another question, because it's only during your dating
Speaker 3: period or does it happen once you're in.
Speaker 5: An The love bombing happens in the courtship focus. And
Speaker 5: so that is why it is so effective, because it's
Speaker 5: early on and it's done by someone to capture your heart.
Speaker 4: There they are a little Okay.
Speaker 5: A clinical psychologist put it like this, I'll give you
Speaker 5: the clinical definition.
Speaker 4: Of love bombing.
Speaker 1: Wait they're studying.
Speaker 5: This, Oh yeah, and I'm going to give you some
Speaker 5: history on it too. I learned some things. So a
Speaker 5: clinical psychologist put it like this, It is a full
Speaker 5: form of idealization and seduction that becomes the prelude to
Speaker 5: what will be emotional manipulation and control.
Speaker 1: Okay, the first part didn't sound terrible? Is that bad?
Speaker 1: Was the first part?
Speaker 4: That's why it feels so good. Yeah, it's a form
Speaker 4: of idealization.
Speaker 5: They're idolizing you, they're putting you up, and they're they're
Speaker 5: making you feel.
Speaker 4: Like you're perfect, and they think you're perfect.
Speaker 3: And another question, can you do that part without getting
Speaker 3: to the next part? Can you just give the love
Speaker 3: without the bomb? I'm saying, can you do all these
Speaker 3: things that idolize somebody but then stop short of the
Speaker 3: control thing? Is that still it is possible?
Speaker 5: And they did say that not all love bombers become abusive,
Speaker 5: but this was interesting. A woman who is in the
Speaker 5: John Jay Criminal John Jay College of Criminal Justice, I
Speaker 5: thought this was so interesting. She said, she has noticed
Speaker 5: in every domestic violence case she's ever had, there was
Speaker 5: a period of love bombing. Wow, not all love bombers
Speaker 5: become abusive, but most women who find themselves in abusive
Speaker 5: situations were love bombed.
Speaker 3: Can I ask this, can even if the love bombing
Speaker 3: doesn't lead to the abusive stuff later physical or emotional otherwise,
Speaker 3: is it still bad?
Speaker 1: Yes, love bombing is still bad.
Speaker 4: Manipulative.
Speaker 5: It's not necessarily coming from a place of truth, It's
Speaker 5: coming from a place of manipulation.
Speaker 4: They want to make you feel so.
Speaker 5: Good and that they're the only ones who can make
Speaker 5: you feel that good, that you're beholden to them in
Speaker 5: a way that you wouldn't have been otherwise.
Speaker 4: That's what it is.
Speaker 5: But listen to where this came from. This actually was
Speaker 5: a tactic. The phrase love bombing was coined by the
Speaker 5: Unification Church in South Korea. This was referred to it's
Speaker 5: referred to as a cult by former members. But this
Speaker 5: is from the nineteen seventies, and this was something they
Speaker 5: did where they would shower potential recruits into this cult
Speaker 5: by giving them warmth and praise, and they would feel
Speaker 5: so good that they would join. And that's how they
Speaker 5: would get new cult members into their group. And so
Speaker 5: they called it love bombing, and that is now what
Speaker 5: we casually refer to oftentimes men laying it on thick
Speaker 5: to try and get a woman to date him.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I need examples. Okay, because what stops short
Speaker 3: of love bombing?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: Because sending flowers nice notes? How much is too much?
Speaker 3: Does it needs to be a grand gesture that makes
Speaker 3: it love bombing? What exactly are we talking about?
Speaker 5: Okay, it's all of the above, So how it begins.
Speaker 5: If this is what they say to start looking for.
Speaker 5: He starts praising you, incessantly, tells you you're perfect, that
Speaker 5: sounds complimentary, tells you you're the woman he's been waiting
Speaker 5: for his entire life. I send you flowers, takes you
Speaker 5: out on lavish day, he send you loving texts. Yes,
Speaker 5: but it's all day, every day, they say, love bombers.
Speaker 5: Won't go a day without seeing you, won't go a
Speaker 5: day without texting you, and.
Speaker 4: Will check in with you. They'll send you funny jokes.
Speaker 5: But it's just non stop, and it's over the top,
Speaker 5: and it never sees says who is.
Speaker 1: Over the top?
Speaker 3: Would won't You find a lot of women who hear
Speaker 3: then go wow, wish my man would do.
Speaker 5: That exactly, And that is the lure most Yes, most
Speaker 5: of us are like, it feels really good, especially when
Speaker 5: it's someone you're attracted to, someone you think is marriage
Speaker 5: material or boyfriend material. Yeah, you're going to get swept
Speaker 5: up in it, that's the whole point.
Speaker 4: Yes, it does feel good.
Speaker 3: But isn't there robes room that needs to be left
Speaker 3: for that being sincere?
Speaker 5: Yes, and they do say that it is possible that
Speaker 5: it's just a fine line between someone who is courting
Speaker 5: you and someone who is love bombing you. Here's when
Speaker 5: you know it begins to shift. He starts monitoring your
Speaker 5: texts and calls. He starts challenging you when you're talking
Speaker 5: to other friends or you say you have other things
Speaker 5: to do. He makes you feel like you have to
Speaker 5: go along with what he wants or you'll lose him.
Speaker 5: So they start to he starts and oh, here's the
Speaker 5: other thing. You start to recognize this a love bomber.
Speaker 5: A true love bomber has a strategy, and they play
Speaker 5: on your weakness. So if you don't think you're that attractive,
Speaker 5: he will constantly tell you how beautiful you are. If
Speaker 5: you don't feel like you're that smart, he will constantly
Speaker 5: tell you how intelligent you are. He will feed off
Speaker 5: your vulnerabilities. He will see where you're weak and he
Speaker 5: will lavish praise specific to those weaknesses.
Speaker 3: Okay again, though, can do we not recognize a love
Speaker 3: bomber until the bad stuff starts happening? Because what you
Speaker 3: are explaining, and I'm the pushback here I hear is that, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's lifting a woman up who might have areas that
Speaker 3: she's not confident it.
Speaker 1: Some would say that's awesome.
Speaker 5: Yes, but then some would say that's manipulative, and some
Speaker 5: would say that it's they say, you know, as a woman,
Speaker 5: deep down, this doesn't feel right, like why is he
Speaker 5: saying all of these things like it? Yes, So there
Speaker 5: is a final line. And here's the other thing. This
Speaker 5: was the big this is the big difficult part about this.
Speaker 5: And that's why you hear on Love Island and all
Speaker 5: these relationship shows women with other women questioning or saying
Speaker 5: he's love bombing you or I feel like he might
Speaker 5: be love bombing me.
Speaker 4: It's a it's a red flag, it's a warning sign.
Speaker 4: It doesn't feel genuine.
Speaker 5: And so the problem is oftentimes you get lured into
Speaker 5: the relationship before you realize what's happening, and.
Speaker 4: That is part of the problem.
Speaker 5: So you have to kind of have a an antenna
Speaker 5: up that this is something that happens, This is something
Speaker 5: that men do. So it is the basis and the
Speaker 5: intent behind it is controlled.
Speaker 3: So if a guy is being very loving, attentive, giving
Speaker 3: you compliments, sending you flowers and notes, run no it
Speaker 3: had I.
Speaker 1: Know you're saying, yeah, I did.
Speaker 5: Obviously, you know what all of those things are great.
Speaker 5: It's about the intensity of them. It's the intensity because
Speaker 5: all of those things are great. And that's why it's
Speaker 5: a fine line. Because, yes, what woman who's attracted to
Speaker 5: a man doesn't want to get flowers from him, surprise
Speaker 5: in the office. What woman doesn't want to hear she's beautiful,
Speaker 5: or that dress looks hot on you, baby, or someone
Speaker 5: who gets sent funny.
Speaker 3: Joe, I don't want to hear it, or.
Speaker 4: Like this made me think of you texts someone who
Speaker 4: wants to see you every day. That's great, but all
Speaker 4: of a sudden.
Speaker 5: There's an intensity, almost like a mania behind it, and
Speaker 5: that you should just have an intent up. It's not
Speaker 5: to distrust love or to distrust affection or attention.
Speaker 4: But there is.
Speaker 5: I do think we all have spidy senses. Okay, let
Speaker 5: me flip it and reverse it.
Speaker 4: I know, I don't know. Do men feel immediate immediately
Speaker 4: one way or the other if a woman intensely likes.
Speaker 3: Them, Yeah, we say she's too much and we go
Speaker 3: about our business. We don't need to stick around and
Speaker 3: await from manipulation. She's almight, she's feeding my egos, she's
Speaker 3: doing this, and she's texting out, oh my God, this
Speaker 3: is too much and we will step back. I guess
Speaker 3: it doesn't get to that next point necessarily because many
Speaker 3: guys do respond to a woman doing that by saying, what.
Speaker 4: She's crazy, she's controlling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's some obsessed obsession.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: This whole idea of the crazy girlfriend be that kind
Speaker 3: of thing. Guys recognize that and run from that fairly immediately.
Speaker 5: Guys don't like that type of attention typically, correct would
Speaker 5: you say? They don't like being lavish with gifts and
Speaker 5: texts and phone calls.
Speaker 3: Let me go with Casey from Love Island for you,
Speaker 3: what happened when he finally got some attention?
Speaker 1: What fine?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: Remember that he.
Speaker 3: Didn't have it and then he got it. It can
Speaker 3: feed a guy's ego. It can make him feel warm, welcomed.
Speaker 3: It can be that case I guess the line you
Speaker 3: use robes with the word is intensity. Yes, and that's
Speaker 3: the first thing you said that. It started to make
Speaker 3: sense to me, like, okay, intensity, there is a different
Speaker 3: level of intensity. Sincerity and intensity don't necessarily go hand
Speaker 3: in hand in my opinion, because when you're being sincere,
Speaker 3: it goes over a line to where you are trying
Speaker 3: to do something.
Speaker 1: You are trying to get a result.
Speaker 3: You are trying, you are you do have a plan
Speaker 3: if it gets to that level of intensity sincerity with
Speaker 3: a note. We can recognize that somebody leaving sending flowers
Speaker 3: just for that, we can recognize it. But intensity was
Speaker 3: the first thing that finally helped me understand this.
Speaker 1: A little bit.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, and you know what, I think you also
Speaker 5: just hit something when you feel like someone is trying
Speaker 5: to prove something to you that that to me belies
Speaker 5: their sincerity right there, that they're they're trying too hard
Speaker 5: for a reason, and that should be noticed.
Speaker 3: How much this is different from the what's the other thing?
Speaker 3: It's performative when someone does something because they want everybody
Speaker 3: else to see, or their grand gesture and they get credit.
Speaker 5: For like throwing you a part of your kind of
Speaker 5: I think that's a part of it too, But that's
Speaker 5: more just ego right where you act like you're giving
Speaker 5: a gift to someone else, but it's more like, look
Speaker 5: at the gift I just gave you. Everybody look at me.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's okay, that's a different thing. You don't want
Speaker 3: to money the waters, Yeah, I'm sorry, Please.
Speaker 4: Continu all right, when we come back.
Speaker 5: We are going to go over some of the traits
Speaker 5: of love bombers and what to do if you think
Speaker 5: you're with one. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. Yes,
Speaker 5: we are going over some of the traits of love bombers.
Speaker 5: And again, I do think this needs to be said.
Speaker 5: While some well it looks like a lot of abusers
Speaker 5: were love bombers, not all love bombers become abusive, and
Speaker 5: I do think that that should be noted. We're not
Speaker 5: saying just because someone's intense in their affection and attention
Speaker 5: towards you, that that somehow means they're going to turn
Speaker 5: into a controlling, abusive, horrific significant out there.
Speaker 3: And again we're talking about what point of clarity here, babe,
Speaker 3: physical and emotional abuse are we talking about?
Speaker 4: Well, yes, in cases, yes, mostly it's emotional abuse. But
Speaker 4: this woman who.
Speaker 5: Was at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice said
Speaker 5: that she did see and that was physical that almost
Speaker 5: in every single instance of domestic violence, of physical violence,
Speaker 5: she could go back and talk to the woman and
Speaker 5: there was a history where she was being love bombing.
Speaker 5: It was a part of the tactic to get women
Speaker 5: under their control. They had to feel like we always
Speaker 5: wonder why does she stay? Why would she be with
Speaker 5: someone like this? There was often a pretty intense period
Speaker 5: leading up to that abuse where she felt loved and
Speaker 5: cared for and special, and special being the big part
Speaker 5: of this. They say, love bombers make you feel like
Speaker 5: they're the only ones who will love you the way
Speaker 5: you're being loved, so that feeling, that dopamine hit that Wow,
Speaker 5: it feels so good to feel loved.
Speaker 4: I won't get that from anyone else.
Speaker 5: And so they keep staying and they keep trying because
Speaker 5: they're hoping that feeling comes back.
Speaker 1: Another thing, the.
Speaker 3: Do we put manipulation in the same category as abuse,
Speaker 3: as emotional abusive some kind?
Speaker 1: That is?
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, and this is a part of it, so yes,
Speaker 5: And they say those who do become emotionally abusive do
Speaker 5: not think they're doing it. They don't even recognize that
Speaker 5: their emotional abusers. It's it's not even a conscious thing.
Speaker 5: And they'll even describe themselves as well, the world just
Speaker 5: doesn't understand me, and they'll just kind of act like
Speaker 5: they're different than everyone else, but they'll never cop to
Speaker 5: actually being manipulative and actually being emotionally abusive. And the
Speaker 5: other thing that they all possess narcissistic traits and behaviors
Speaker 5: indicating entitlement. So if you are with this person and
Speaker 5: they they have narcissist traits, and just how they walk
Speaker 5: around the world, how they move, are they entitled? How
Speaker 5: do they treat other people? It's this, It all goes
Speaker 5: in line. Love bombers are entitled narcissists almost all the time.
Speaker 3: That's something you can recognize even outside of your relationship.
Speaker 1: You can see this how they go about moving around
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 5: Yes, so as you're questioning, hmm, this isn't feeling right,
Speaker 5: then you start seeing other traits and other behaviors. It
Speaker 5: all falls in line and they say something else that
Speaker 5: love bombers do. Oftentimes they make ghost you for a
Speaker 5: few days to illicit panic. They want you to want
Speaker 5: to realize I might leave, and so again that's the
Speaker 5: controlling thing. They'll ghost for a couple of days so
Speaker 5: that you start freaking out, like, oh my god, where
Speaker 5: they go? So they love bomb, love bomb, love bomb,
Speaker 5: and then disappear and then come back.
Speaker 4: And now you won't.
Speaker 5: Do anything to upset them because you don't want them
Speaker 5: to leave. They create this feeling of need and panic.
Speaker 5: That was really fascinating to me.
Speaker 3: Roll this is and you tell me if I'm taking
Speaker 3: it too far, But yes, we hear love bombing, and
Speaker 3: oftentimes I think sometimes we can be dismissive and have
Speaker 3: even cute little conversations. Oh that's too much, bro, Just
Speaker 3: sounds like this is serious, something you should look out for.
Speaker 3: I say, But yes, a woman who treats women with
Speaker 3: domestic violence is telling us that this was a first sign.
Speaker 1: Yes, really, this is significant.
Speaker 4: And so that was what really piqued my interest.
Speaker 5: I didn't realize, like, and I'm not trying to discount
Speaker 5: or dismiss emotional abuse, because that is real and awful,
Speaker 5: but to think it does make sense. I never consider
Speaker 5: that being another step or another possibility. But that makes
Speaker 5: a lot of sense now. And so what the experts
Speaker 5: say is be wary of partners who resent your boundaries,
Speaker 5: resent your personal interests, resent your friendships, or put pressure
Speaker 5: on you to prove your loyalty to them. Those are
Speaker 5: all very significant signs that you're in a love bombing relationship.
Speaker 3: If they resent your independence in anything that brings you
Speaker 3: joy outside of them.
Speaker 4: Exactly, holy hell, exactly.
Speaker 5: And they say when in these kinds of relationships, they say,
Speaker 5: are really really hard to end because once you walk
Speaker 5: away as a woman or I'm just saying a woman,
Speaker 5: because that's the most most likely scenario or the one
Speaker 5: that is most prominent. They say that if you try
Speaker 5: to end it, you oftentimes get retaliation, angry texts, stalking it.
Speaker 5: Does they just be aware when you end it, it
Speaker 5: is tough, and so getting up early and recognizing it
Speaker 5: early is far better. Ultimately, trust your gut. If it
Speaker 5: feels like it's too much, it probably is.
Speaker 4: And that is it.
Speaker 5: We all know deep down, if it feels like it's
Speaker 5: too much, it probably is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You're rarely wrong about these things.
Speaker 4: It's true. We can have moments of hmm.
Speaker 5: But if you are getting a constant, constant feeling that
Speaker 5: you are being just overwhelmed by somebody, there's a reason
Speaker 5: behind it. And I just thought this was This is
Speaker 5: the New York Times, by the way, if anyone wants
Speaker 5: to read this article really really fascinating about love bombing.
Speaker 1: You've been love bombed.
Speaker 4: I have. I have had it happen once in my life.
Speaker 5: It was not not a love bomber.
Speaker 4: You have you know what you were so.
Speaker 5: I wanted to qualify it because you do. Like you
Speaker 5: left roses by my nightstand one day this week.
Speaker 1: I'll never do that again.
Speaker 5: It was so every now and then we get I
Speaker 5: get a gift in the mail, it'll be a new
Speaker 5: pair of shoes.
Speaker 4: No, it's just sweet little moments.
Speaker 1: I'm back. Those are expensive shoes. It was too much.
Speaker 4: You're the opposite. You're very kind and considerate, but it's
Speaker 4: not manipulative. So thank you for being you.
Speaker 3: No, but now I'm learning I don't want to even
Speaker 3: be anywhere close to the category of love bombitka.
Speaker 1: I will back from a little bit.
Speaker 4: Go ahead and tell me how beautiful I am.
Speaker 1: There's a few things that you can't tell me.
Speaker 4: Actually, I'm cool with that too.
Speaker 3: I actually do tell you that alright.
Speaker 5: And without everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us.
Speaker 4: I may be robot alongside T. J.
Speaker 5: Holmes.
Speaker 4: We'll talk soon.