1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: Channel one two. Taylor Swift is getting ready for a performance, 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: not on stage, but in a federal courtroom. She's getting 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: ready to take the stand in her civil suit against 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: a radio DJ who she accuses of groping her during 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: a photo of Swift is being sued by k Y 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: g O d J David Mueller. Swift claimed Mueller's hand 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: grabbed her backside inappropriately and his radio station fired him. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: This TMZ picture showing the two together will be at 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 1: the center of the trial. Look at where his hand us. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: It's an odd spot. My hand was never under her skirts. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: I never grabbed her. Mueller is asking for millions, Swift 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: just one dollar. It's about women's ride. It's something that's 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: been going on for years, and women are saying enough 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: is enough. It is day three for Taylor Swift, and 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about day three of a blockbuster concert 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: or a world tour. It's day three of Taylor Swift 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: at trial. That's right. And I noticed that every article 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: starts with what Taylor Swift wore. The superstar is reportedly 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: wearing a high necked black dress with her hair in 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: a sleep ponytail? Why is that important? We're talking about 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: a guy sexually groping her, according to Taylor Swift. I mean, 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: I see, grace. This is crime stories. Thank you for 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: being with us. We are taking your calls straight out 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: to the lines with Otis high. Otis, what's your question 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift? Before you even get cranked up? Otis, 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: did you know now there are reports that the DJ 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:48,919 Speaker 1: involved has changed his story seven times. She is stuck 29 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: with her story that he groped her bare skin rear 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: end at a meet and greet and took a picture 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: of it for Pete's sake, And now he has actually 32 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: sued her, claiming he lost his job because she brought 33 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: it to light. Okay, Otis, what's your question? Thanks to answering, 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: My question is what was his motivation? Is he really 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: was he really just trying to look for a quick 36 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: settlement from Taylor Swift or in or do he want 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: all this stuff to come? Hold on, Otis, maybe I 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: don't understand his motivation. What is any man's motivation when 39 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: they grab your rear? Is that what you're saying? What's 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: his motivation for grabbing Taylor Swift's rear end have helped 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: me somebody quick life support. What do you mean, what's 42 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: his motivation? Excuse me? You know if you call in 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: to crime stories, you've got to be clear. Okay, what 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: is his motivation for the lawsuit? Now that's a good one. 45 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: Hold on Otis, Alan Duke is joining me and investigative 46 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: reporter Nanette Sosa. Alan Duke Otis wants to know his motivation, 47 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: not for the the butt grab, but the lawsuit. Well, 48 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: I think this guy wanted publicity and now and and money. 49 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: But as far as grabbing, you know, I just don't 50 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: think that you get a lot at a photo shoot 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: when you grab and I don't. I don't think that 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: was anything other than an accident. But I think, now, 53 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: who did you say accident? I wish you could have 54 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: seen Jackie's head twirl or I'm looking at that picture 55 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: of the Exorcist, it went around three six an accident 56 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: to go down and up the photo A photo is 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: capturing less than one sixty of a second in image 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: of what happened. He says that all he did was 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: he reached, he put his arm on her, He felt 60 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: rib cage. He said his hand was closed. Under testimony, 61 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and he said he felt a rib cage, but his 62 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: hand was closed. This is what he said under oath, 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: he felt up the rib cage is it is still 64 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: on the line, Otice, did you hear that? Alan thinks 65 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: he mistook her rear end? Was the rear end? The 66 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: photo is? Photos are so deceptive. She's a sweet girl, lady. 67 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: You know what, Alan, You just need to stop when 68 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: you're ahead, okay with me? Nanette Sosa? Ninette Sosa is 69 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: a respected investigative reporter. Alan respected. Then that why has 70 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: this guy changed his stories seven times? And how has 71 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: he changed his story seven times? Why would anybody change 72 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: his story unless they're nervous about something and they're trying 73 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: to backtrack, you know, go left or right. That would 74 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: be about the only reason you would change your story. 75 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: In addition, why is he suing or why did this 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: all end up with Taylor Swift when he lost his job? 77 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: Why did he not go after his radio station or 78 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: its management in a lawsuit for terminating him. Back to 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: Otis's phone call, if Otis is still with us, that's 80 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: a really good point she's brought up. Otis is in 81 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: this lawsuit is not about quote clearing his good name, 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: But about a pay day? That's what I would think. Uh, 83 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: is it comes down the money anytime, you know, even 84 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: to investigate stories and so forth, a lot of times 85 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: to follow the money With this guy, I a DJ, 86 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: you follow the money and uh, what was there going 87 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: to be a quick resolution? Taylor Swift cage in pays off, 88 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, or however that might be. But it's now 89 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: dragged out for years and he has no job, or 90 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: if he does, there are small gigs that he's doing. 91 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: But again, why did he not go after his own 92 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: company for terminating him? Joining me right now is Max 93 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: from North Carolina. Hi, Max, what's your question? Well? Start 94 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: thinking that may not have rate connection. But he was 95 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: not wearing okay. You know, it's interesting how certain people 96 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: gravitate towards certain facts in a story. I think we've 97 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 1: established yesterday, and correct me if I'm wrong. Alan Duke 98 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: and Nnette Sosa that she was wearing a thong a 99 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: k A anal floss a k A one of those 100 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: little bitty skinny underwears that go up your rear end. 101 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: And um that she did have on underwear. And actually, 102 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: if she was giving a concert, I could see her 103 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: wearing something like that, so you wouldn't see lines out 104 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: hey hold on, hold on, guy, and so when the 105 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: guy grabbed her rer end, it was hand to skin contact, 106 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: but that she was wearing a thong. Now, I don't 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: know what that has to do with anything or choice 108 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: of underwear, but apparently it's it's concerning our friend from 109 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: North Carolina. Why are all the callers men today? That's interesting? Um, 110 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: your only question for North Carolina is was she wearing underwear? 111 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: Forget about the alleged assault, but was she wearing underwear? 112 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: Is that the question? It's just it just amused me. 113 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: That's funny because that's what you said. It's funny that 114 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: that's not the question, because that that's that's what you said, 115 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: that that question updated aspects of this thing, an updated 116 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: aspect on this thing. Okay, going in, So that's not 117 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,119 Speaker 1: your question. What is your question? Max? Well, I wish 118 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: I hadn't a real question, but I know that which 119 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: side is obviously uh, you know, hurting, and some lawyers 120 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: somewhere said, hey, let's sewer, we can do that, and 121 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: whoever is hurting? Who whatever said why didn't they shoot 122 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the company that fired him over? That kind of information 123 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: from that short had the coalman and complained, well, her 124 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: people had, uh you know he maybe he don't you 125 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: think he should have sued the company that fired him 126 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: over that kind of Okay, I don't know really what 127 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: to think about that rambling question I heard? But did 128 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: did I hear you say that the DJ accused of 129 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: groping Taylor Swift is hurting? H U R T I 130 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: n G Did you say that? I think you did? 131 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: You know? Alan Duke with me on the story along 132 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: with investigative reporters and Sosa hurting. This guy's hurting? What? Why? 133 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: Why is he hurting? Well, he lost his career. Who's 134 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: going to hire him? A DJ who's this infamous now 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: another shot jock radio station? Probably probably you look at 136 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: his face. They look at his face. He looks like 137 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: he's a little creepy. Though. I'll have to give him that. 138 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: He's got the face. He's got, he's got the face 139 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: for creepy radio. Let's just say that. Let's talk about 140 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: for a moment with Nnette Sosa. Uh, the seven different 141 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: stories that David Mueller, fifty five year old DJ out 142 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: of Denver, allegedly has told. Okay, we are still taking 143 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: your calls on Taylor Swift before we head to our 144 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: next topic. But the various stories were, let's see our 145 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: hands touched and our arms touched. I know our arms 146 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: crossed and touched. Okay, that's one. Then there was a 147 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: time to Nette Sosa that he said he touched her 148 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: rear in by accident. And then there was a time 149 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: that he said, um, I didn't touch her rear end. 150 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: Then we've got the rib cage that he actudentally touched 151 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: her rib cage. I'm missing three stories. Let's see what 152 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: wasn't um, I'm missing three stories. And that what are 153 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: the other three versions? Uh? He testified that he had 154 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: no inkling. Remember that one. He had no inkling that 155 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: anything was happened until after uh Swift security team approached 156 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: him with the allegation. And so it was probably the 157 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: very first one. What what happened was his first take 158 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: on it. He didn't know what and the thing is. 159 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: And this often came up in rape cases and sex 160 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: assault cases, where if the victim waited for a period 161 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: of time, it made the case weaker because a jury 162 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: might think that it was fabricated. Whereas if there's an 163 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: immediate as we say in the law, outcry, an outcry 164 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: to a outcry witness where the victim immediately says, this 165 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: happened to me. It makes the case a lot stronger. 166 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: Many people think there is a so called gap time 167 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: in this case, but there's not true. Uh. The lawsuit 168 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: became a couple of years later where the DJ actually 169 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: sued her Taylor Swift, but she made an immediate outcry 170 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: in the Nette Sosa. She immediately told her parents, her team, 171 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: everybody in Fay. They tricked the guy down immediately out 172 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: in the concert, didn't they net They did, but it 173 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: was wasn't him face to face. They approached his his 174 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: team of people and through his work and the company 175 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: that hired him. So at the moment that the incident happened, 176 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: it's one of those gritty kind of smiles. And I'm sure, uh, 177 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: your head is thinking, Okay, do I say something now, 178 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: Do I cause a commotion? Do I embarrass this guy 179 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: at this a very minute, or do I do this 180 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: photo shoot and we'll take this up in about a 181 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: couple of hours. When I approached his his colleagues or 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: his bosses, well, they did kick him out of the concert. Yeah, 183 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: he got kicked out of the concert. But I think 184 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: she's right that they approached. Um, I'm not sure exactly 185 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: who they approached first, but somebody in his camp, Taylor 186 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: Swift's supposedly as a longtime friend of this guy's boss, 187 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: and so Taylor's mom called the boss. Well, this is 188 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: where it stands right now, and eight person jury in 189 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: Denver has started hearing testimony and Taylor Swift versus d J. 190 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: David Mueller. As you know, Mueller stands accused of grabbing 191 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: the superstar on her arian without her permission during a 192 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: visit backstage. It was at the Pepsi Center in Denver 193 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: June two thousand thirteen. Mueller is seeking money compensation, claiming 194 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: that when Swift reported the incident, it led to him 195 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: being fired from kyg O. The photo of the incident 196 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: is a major piece of evidence. It was shown during 197 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: opening statements. The jury has seen it multiple times throughout 198 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: Tuesday's testimony, and he repeatedly denied touching Swift inappropriately. He 199 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: described how he remembered the moment. Now, this is what 200 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: happened in court. The d J. Mueller states he didn't 201 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: want to go to the Sunday night concert right because 202 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: he had to work the next morning. Okay, you get 203 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: free tickets to a Teller Swift concert, but you don't 204 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: want to go. I didn't peach him right there on 205 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: that um. After standing in line for a really long time, 206 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: he and his then girlfriend and colleague Shannon Melcher, they 207 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: go into the photo boothroom where Swift is standing there 208 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: for meet and greets. He testifies he and Melcher were 209 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: in the room with Swift and five other people, including 210 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: a photographer, that something happened to cause him to conclude 211 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: Swift was acting quote cold and stand office. Gee, I 212 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: wonder what it was is what could have caused that 213 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: an immediate change and her behavior when she didn't invite 214 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: me to pose. I considered that was standoffice and cold. Now, 215 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: see he's stuck without Alan Duke and his deposition. He's 216 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: caught saying she swept? Was that to in cold and 217 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: standoffice suddenly? So how does he explain that? He says, 218 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: because she didn't want to do the meet and greet 219 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: That that's it. Okay, that that's a crack in the 220 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: armor right right there. But he goes on to say 221 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: that his right arm was extended with his hand closed 222 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: and his palm facing down. Okay, that's what's happening in 223 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: the tailor swift case. Her parents are flanking her and 224 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: the DJ has been on the stand. You know. Let's hold, 225 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: I want to thank our partner. Are you hiring? Do 226 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: you know where to post your job to find the 227 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: very best candidates? Well? With zip recruiter, you can post 228 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: your job to one hundred plus job sites with one 229 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: simple click. Then their technology efficiently matches the right people 230 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: to your job better than anybody else. And that's why 231 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: zip recruiter is different. Unlike other job sites, Zip recruiter 232 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: does not depend on candidates finding you, It finds them. 233 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, over eight percent of jobs 234 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: posted on zip recruiter get a qualified candidate in just 235 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, no juggling emails or calls to your office. 236 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: You simply screen, rate, and manage candidates all in one 237 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: place with zip recruiters easy to use dashboard. Find out 238 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: today why zip recruiter has been used by businesses of 239 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with 240 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: immediate results. And right now, my listeners can post jobs 241 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: on zip recruiter for free f R E E. That's 242 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: right free. Go to zip recruiter dot com slash Nancy 243 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: Grace that zip recruiter dot com slash Nancy Grace one 244 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: more time to try it for free, go to zip 245 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: recruiter dot com slash Nancy Grace, zip recruiter dot com. 246 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, and now on crime Stories, Mayweather and McGregor 247 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: will go toe to toe in Las Vegas on August. 248 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: Money for a reason. You know I'm gonna get it, 249 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: regardless of human trafficking is the problem everywhere, to include 250 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: the United States. The average age of the children who 251 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: are being sold is thirteen. Brothels, Massage, Parlors. I met 252 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: my first PILM before I was sixteen. What to look 253 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: for in regards to traffickers? I found myself trapped, afraid 254 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: to get out, and scared for my life. Marks Anniversary 255 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: of the Summer of Sam. To mark the occasion, Pocketbooks 256 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: is proud to release a special anniversary edition E book 257 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: of Son of Sam by Lawrence D. Klausner. This is 258 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,239 Speaker 1: an incredible story of how a single man, David Berkowitz, 259 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: dubbed Son of Sam, the demon haunted forty four caliber killer, 260 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: killed six, wounded several others, and terrorized millions of New Yorkers. 261 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: Over eight known attacks from July ninety six through August 262 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: nine seven. It's also the story of the greatest man 263 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: hunt in the history of the New York Police Department, 264 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: the intimate narrative of the men assigned to tracking down 265 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: a lone killer. The police task Force investigated more than 266 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: three thousand suspects, some of them cops, before finally making 267 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: an arrest. In the meantime, politicians watched a city right 268 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: and panic. Newspapers played upon the fears of their readers, 269 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: and the criminal justice system showed itself incapable of coping 270 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: with the man who committed such horrendous crimes. Download Summer 271 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: of Sam by Lawrence D. Cloustner today. Royalties earned from 272 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: the cell of this book will be shared between the 273 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: victims or their families and the author. Believe it or not, 274 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: human trafficking is at an all time high. And I'm 275 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: not talking about in Bangkok or some little village in Singapore. 276 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: I'm talking about right here on us soil. And believe 277 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: it or not, one of the hotbeds of human trafficking 278 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: seems to be not only the Atlanta International Airport, but Vegas, 279 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: and it only gets worse before a major sporting event 280 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: like the Super Bowl or the upcoming Mayweather McGregor fight, 281 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: expecting to bring in thousands of human trafficking victims on 282 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: American soil. Joining me right now is an expert in 283 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: addition to Nina Ninette Sosa, investigative reporter. Also with me, 284 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: Tim Ballard, the founder of Operation Underground Railroad, who started 285 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: his career at the c i A, where he worked 286 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: cases with terrorism and Latin America. He's spent over a 287 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: decade as a special agent for the Department of Homeland Security, 288 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: where he was then assigned to Internet crimes against children 289 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: and deployed as an undercover operative in the US Child 290 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: Sex Tourism Jump Team. There's so much more I could 291 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: say about Tim Ballard, our special guest today, but Tim, 292 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. It's 293 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,239 Speaker 1: hard for me to believe in my workaday world. You know, 294 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: where I'm working and taking care of the twins, and 295 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: working and taking care of the twins, It's like a 296 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: circle that out there, really, right under my nose, human 297 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: trafficking is happening here on American soil. You have suggested 298 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: that the Mayweather McGregor upcoming fight is expected to bring 299 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: in hordes of human traffickers explain, Yeah, this is it's 300 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: it's it's a tragic thing. It's it's an epidemic, it's 301 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: a plague. I mean you consider the demand. I mean 302 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: it's it's estimated by the U n UH that there 303 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: are over two million children in the world who are 304 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: currently being exploited in traffic. These are children, not even 305 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: mentioned the adults. And unfortunately, uh, you know, you ask 306 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: yourself what kind of demand would justify that number. And 307 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: when you consider that the United States has the highest 308 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: child porn consumption rate and the highest child porn production rate, 309 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: the demands coming from right here. And so when there's 310 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people showing up in the United States 311 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: and these these these horrible human beings who are we're 312 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: looking at child pornography, who are looking for children to 313 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: have sex with them wherever they congregate, whether it's at 314 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: that the Mayweather Fight or a Super Bowl, these traffickers 315 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: will bring these kids that are here in the United 316 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: States to service that demand. Uh. It's there's two hundred 317 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand estimated children in the United States, Uh 318 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: that are foresell in this in this way and uh, yeah, 319 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: listen to you, is like drinking from a fire hydrant. 320 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: I just can't take it in. It's just coming, it's 321 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: just coming so fast, and and I don't want to 322 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: stop you because I want to hear every single word. 323 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: But did you just say two hundred and fifty thousand 324 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: children children in the United States? That's the estimate that 325 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: are currently forced into the commercial sex trade here, and 326 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: that number increases. Where are they? How? First of all, 327 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: how do they get taken? So generally it's kids who 328 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of parental supervision, they don't have 329 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: a lot of uh, you know, people taking care of them. 330 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: Kids who run run away, they'll they'll get picked up 331 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: by pimps um a lot of them. According to State Department, 332 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: ten thousand, roughly ten thousand kids a year are smuggled 333 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: from outside the United States. Uh, interned states? How do 334 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: they get in? What's that? How do they get in? 335 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: How do they get in without being coll Smuggling people 336 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: internited states is is pretty you know, it's pretty easy 337 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: to do. Uh. It's I worked along the border for 338 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: ten years of my career and those are poorest borders indeed, 339 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: and so uh, if a trafficker knows what they're doing, 340 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: not to snuggle people in and out, and they can 341 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: get kids into into into the country. Um. You know, 342 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: a lot of the Americans that we catch are are 343 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: overseas who catch them in Mexico and Thailand where law 344 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: enforcement is less effective. Um that for those who don't 345 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: want to travel, they can find them here and they 346 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: and the traveickers bring them to to our to to 347 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: their clients in the United States. Do you remember, and 348 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure you do, the former Subway sandwich pitchman Jared Fogel, 349 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: who was go now convicted going through all those machinations 350 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: to have underage sex and allegedly brought juveniles to the 351 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: Plaza Hotel. While I'm downstairs with John, David and Lucy 352 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: having tea with Eloise, you know, he's upstairs trying to 353 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: have underage sex. So there is a huge appetite for that, 354 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: not just in other countries here in the US, and 355 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how how it happens or how 356 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: it can be stopped. Let me ask you this. There 357 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: were a lot of theories, and not not just theories. 358 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: In fact, a major investigation launched on this because new 359 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: information allegedly came to light in the search for a 360 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: missing child, Maddie McCann. Do you remember when beautiful Mattie 361 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: McCann went missing from the family vacation and nobody could 362 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: figure out what had happened, But then it came to 363 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: light that she may have been taken by human traffickers. 364 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: That really brought this topic to the forefront in the US. 365 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: Tim Yeah, absolutely, I mean, there's there's with Maddie's case, 366 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: there are a number of reasons that would have taken her. 367 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: What we find is that kids are taken for either 368 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: for sex trafficking, for for labor trafficking, and and and 369 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: for organ harvesting, which is a very real thing, oregan harvesting. 370 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: So that's not an urban myth. That is not an 371 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: urban myth. That is an absolute thing that that happens. 372 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: We work in developping countries. You know, it's funny, I'm 373 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that there's so much attention came to 374 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: the Matti mccan case. Uh, but people need to remember 375 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: that what happened to Mattie mccan is happening every day 376 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: in a country like Haiti or Colombia or you know 377 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: a lot of these developing countries where we work and 378 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: their parents love them just as much as these parents 379 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: loved her. But we somehow forget that. You know, this 380 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: is happening every day, cases just as profound, uh, where 381 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,959 Speaker 1: kids are being taken and used um. And yes, we 382 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: we run into people who come into a country like Haiti, 383 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: for example. They'll buy a child, take that child back 384 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: to their country where they have a wealthy family who 385 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: who needs a heart or or or or a little 386 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: liver or something for their child, and they will perform 387 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: that surgery, pull that um what they need out and 388 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: and and dispose of the child. So these are very 389 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: real cases. Wit what guys, Guys, this is not a 390 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: sci fi movie. I am talking with a former CIA 391 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: operative with me as Tim Ballard, they found of Operation 392 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: Underground Railroad Go to our Rescue dot org. He spent 393 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: over ten years a special agent with the Department of 394 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: Homeland Security and assigned to the Internet Crimes Against Children 395 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: Task Force. He was deployed as an undercover operative for 396 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: the U S Child Sex Tourism Jump Team. Okay, this 397 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: is beyond what I had expected you to say to him, 398 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: that children are actually bought in a country like Haiti, 399 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: brought here, their organs harvested and the child, as you said, 400 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: disposed of. Much of the child human trafficking came to 401 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: light when Mattie McCann, beautiful little Mattie McCann, was kidnapped 402 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: and according to Portuguese police and British detectives, they both 403 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: have been investigating the fear, focusing on the theory that 404 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: Maddie McCann and was kidnapped by human traffickers. Portuguese police 405 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: say they are completely in tune with British detectives. Following 406 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: a tip that a gang of European traffickers snatched Mattie McCann. 407 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: That brought it all to the forefront for many US citizens. 408 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: But according to Tim, this has been going on for many, 409 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: many years. What is a US child sex tourism jump team? 410 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: What what? First of all, what is a child sex 411 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: tour that's referring to you know, when when people travel, 412 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: these pedophiles travel, whether you know, interstate within the United 413 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: States or travel overseas to resort towns, uh to look 414 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: for children. And that's what we we We worked largely overseas. 415 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: What do you mean overseas like where like any any 416 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: developing nation that has a resort town, you can be 417 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: sure that there are children pen eleven twelve years old 418 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: who are being sold for sex. And what what our 419 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: team does is we we sign up with UM with 420 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: foreign law enforcement, and they'll they'll have us sit on 421 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: a beach where they think traffickings happening, and well, what 422 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: really just sit there and we have video footage of 423 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: this we we can even share, but we put on 424 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: our our undercover you know, UM video cameras, audio video, 425 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: and we capture these guys who approach us on a 426 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: beach or a street corner, uh and offer kids to us. 427 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: And they expect this since we're Americans sitting on this beach, 428 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: that they know why we're there. And they have a 429 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: twelve year old block away in the house if we'd 430 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: like to partake of that. And that's how we help 431 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: these especially foreign and to these foreign governments, because because 432 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: we are Americans, we can infiltrate the the the trafficking 433 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: situation in their country a lot quicker. And it is everywhere. 434 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,719 Speaker 1: It's it's absolutely everywhere. So let me understand something. I 435 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: remember the first time as a rookie prosecutor, I had 436 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: a case where on the place report the cop I 437 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: drove into ABC Housing Project and defendant Alan Duke held 438 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: up a glass sing bag at me from the street corner. 439 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: I undercover cop went over and immediately arrested him, and 440 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: it turned out he had twenty five glassing bags of cocaine. 441 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: I'll call that cop in. I chewed him and he 442 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: really end said, do you think I'm an idiot? Do 443 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: you think I believe somebody would wave cocaine in a 444 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: glassing bag on a corner? Get out of here, and 445 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: I handed the case off to my investigator to drop. Okay, 446 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: fast forward, maybe three or four weeks. I was out 447 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: investigating homicide case. I drove into ABC Housing Project and 448 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: guess what, a guy standing on the corner waved a 449 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: bunch of glassing bags at me. I'm like, holy crap. Okay, 450 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: So my point is you're saying that you go sit 451 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: on the beach and people will come up to you 452 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: in other countries because they know you're there to find 453 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: child sex. Absolutely right. See what I'm saying is Alan, 454 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: I know you and Annette are with me. Let me 455 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: go to the Nette Nanette. It's not far fetched. See 456 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: I would have thought that's crazy. I go sit on 457 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: the beach and somebody just walks up and offers me 458 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 1: a child. Why would that happen? Not far but it 459 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: does happen and not far fetched at all. I have 460 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: been in Central America where men and women even come 461 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: in under the guise of a care team or missionaries. 462 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: And I have witnessed men sitting at restaurants with ten 463 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: and eleven year old boys just questioning and grooming them, 464 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: waiting to get up to the hotel rooms. I have 465 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: sat there and watched this, and it's so frustrating because 466 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: you think, where are where's the cops? Where? Where get 467 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: me police? But I have to respect that I'm in 468 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: another country. I'm not gonna happen. What country was it, Nanette? 469 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: But I've witnessed it non at what was that Guatemala 470 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: outside of Guatemala City. And I have seen Indian mothers 471 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: cry and cry up to the steps of the U 472 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: N Building for taking the Indian babies. And I have 473 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: seen American couples and families waiting to take these Indian 474 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: babies from these moms who do not want to give 475 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: up their children. But the and I believe there's a 476 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: pause right now for adoption, even in a Central amer 477 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: and at least in Guatemala. It's really chokes me out 478 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: because I have seen it, and I'll just share quickly. 479 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: One other case, and this is here in the United States, 480 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: of a thirteen year old girl coming across the border, 481 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: and I was taking a great hound bus. I took 482 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: a greathound bus because I like to see the small 483 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: cities in the US. This is from Arkansas to Atlanta, 484 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: and I saw the exchange of thirty dollars between the men. 485 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: The girl gets on the bus next to me, and 486 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: then we pitched stop at a small town and I 487 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: bought her a soda pop and she tells me her 488 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: story and that when she gets too Atlanta, they're there 489 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: to pick her up. And I so desperately tried to intervene. 490 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: When she did get to Atlanta, and I lost her 491 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: and I see her drive away in a car, and 492 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: and that's that's the end of her story as far 493 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: as I can see. But it happens. It happens all 494 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: the time. Guys. We're not talking about justin Haiti. We're 495 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: not talking about just India. We're not talking about just 496 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: Bangkok or Singapore. We're talking about on us soil, in 497 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: our back yard. And it's all coming to a head 498 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: right now with the Mayweather fight in Vegas with me 499 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: two special guests. Tim Ballard from the c I A 500 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: formerly an operative on sex rings geared toward children human trafficking, 501 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: and investigative reporter Nanette Sosa tell me why child sex 502 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: trafficking would reach a zenith in Vegas at the Mayweather 503 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: McGregor fight. Tim, Well, you know it goes through this, this, this, 504 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: this why people want sexess one of this uh. And 505 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: you know most people have in carrogated dozens and dozens 506 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: of people through my career, and a lot of them 507 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: have a very very similar story where they talk about 508 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: their their poorn their pornography addiction that just got out 509 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: of hand, and you know they weren't getting the chemical 510 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: reaction they wanted from the adult stuff, so they move 511 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: on to somebody to shock their system, and they're looking 512 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: at fiscality, child pornography, and all of a sudden they're 513 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: they're looking for this and so this tomad is just 514 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: through the roots. And so any time that there's any 515 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: event where a lot of people come together, you can 516 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: you can bet that hold on just a moment, Ho 517 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: ho ho ho ho. The demand. You make it sound 518 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: like the demand for fidget spinners or for uh, the 519 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: latest fad food or diet, the demand for it. These 520 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: are little children, young kids, the demand it is a felony. 521 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: You can do life behind bars for this. Doesn't that 522 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: change anything for these people, you know, their their desire. 523 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: Just I've watched I watched smart people who who are pedophiles, 524 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: who who desire this do the craziest things, you know, 525 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: on a steam operation. I'm thinking they're not gonna come 526 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: to They're not They're not gonna actually show up to 527 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: the house. And they show up to the house and 528 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's us on the steam because their 529 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: desire is so great it's a drug. Hold on just 530 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: a second, let me put this in here one eight 531 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight. The 532 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: National Human Trafficking Resource Center repeat toll free eight eight 533 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: eight three seven three seven eight eight eight. So why 534 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: would this giant, highly publicized fight be a haven for 535 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: child human trafficking? I mean, is it like um prostitution 536 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: in Vegas? Now? Why anything goes and nobody he's trying 537 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: to stop it? M Well, yeah, it's it's it's it's 538 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: not just this fight, it's any it's any big event, 539 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean anything at the Staples Center in l A. 540 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: You know, a big football game, especially as Super Bowl. 541 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: Anytime there's a lot of people coming, you can guess 542 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: you can bet that a good portion of those people 543 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: showing up watch child sex. And the pimps and the 544 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: traffickers know that. And and what they do is they'll 545 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: they advertise it's all online, you know, in Colombia and 546 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: eight might be a beach, uh. In the US, it's 547 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: gonna be online. It's gonna be on seeing like like 548 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: back page or other social media sites where they know 549 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: where to drop certain words and advertisements that that pedophiles 550 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: will understand and they connect. Like for example, they'll there's 551 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: there's codes they've used for a while. I can say 552 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: this one because it's it's it's outdated now, but they 553 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: used to call uh. They used to talk about selling 554 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: cheese pizza. So if you went to the escort site 555 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: and you hear someone talk about cheese pizza, uh, you 556 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: know that that was short for child pornography. And then 557 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: the person would say, I want cheese pizza. Okay, well 558 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: you know what, you know, how many pieces do you want? 559 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: I want twelve pieces? What I means I want a 560 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: twelve year old. Then they get offline and what's your number? 561 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: And then and then they get offline and they make 562 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: the deal. Um, I've infiltrated dozens and dozens of those 563 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: kind of deals online where we pretend to be one 564 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: of the buyers or or or a seller, and that's 565 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: how we can get our make our way into this market. 566 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: So there's a whole kind of language that these pedophiles. Guys, 567 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: you don't think that it's surreal. As of a couple 568 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: of days ago, updated in the Vegas Review Journal, a 569 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: sex trafficking ring with ties to Vegas was busted in 570 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: California just this past week, and l A detective says 571 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: it is common for pimps based in l A to 572 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: operate in Vegas. California authorities announced that three people were 573 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: arrested in connection with the sex trafficking ring involving eight 574 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: children sold for sex in California, Nevada, and Texas. The 575 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: Associated Press reports a thirty year old, a thirty two 576 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: year old, and a thirty two year old woman face 577 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: a total of fifty four charges, including identity theft and 578 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: pimping of these victims. I mean it's happening. It's happening 579 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: right now. You send your kids off to school, other 580 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: kids are being used in this manner. And now we 581 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: hear there are code words, code words like cheese pizza. 582 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: With me. Is Nanette Sosa who just told a horrible 583 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: but true story about her encounter on a Greyhound bus 584 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: with a child being trafficked, and also with US expert 585 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: Tim Ballard, founder of Operation Underground Railroad to bus these 586 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: child sex trafficking rings. So I noticed all around the 587 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: Atlanta airport, Tim and Annette that there are signs human 588 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: trafficking not wanted here. Why is that, Tim, and how 589 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: do you spot it? Sure? I love when I see 590 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: these advertisements in airports. I'm seeing them more and more 591 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: people are asked to look out for for for child trafficking. Um. 592 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: The airline attendants are getting training now And there was 593 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: a case recently where an airline attendant saw a child 594 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: sitting next to a man. It didn't make sense, something 595 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: didn't feel right. And she saw this little girl was 596 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: going into the bathroom and she left the note in 597 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: the bathroom and said you need help, I'm here, And 598 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: the little girl walks out and says, yes, I do, 599 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: and she the flight attendant was right and they were 600 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: able to deliberate this this child and get this guy arrested. 601 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: This is this is the fruits of these campaigns of training, 602 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: especially in places like like airports, bus depots, places where 603 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: people are moving in and out. We need more of it. 604 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: But because there's this problem is so enormous that the 605 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: people of the world, the citizens of the world, need 606 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: to be the eyes and ears for law enforcement because 607 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: they are in the places where trafficking is rang every day, 608 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: and the nette is with us. It does happen. The 609 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: airports are the place where transfers can happen. There was 610 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: at one time at within Central America, I believe it 611 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: was Costa Rica, that when you entered that airport, there 612 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: would be a sign posted that if you are a 613 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: single white male traveling alone over the age of whether 614 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: it was thirty or fifty, you will be uh questioned 615 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: upon entry. I only know that because I had a 616 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: friend who happened to be a single white male traveling 617 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: to that country. He actually just turned around and came 618 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: back because he just didn't even want to deal with that. 619 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: He had never seen a sign so such a preposterous 620 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: sign like that but uh, it's it's out there, and uh, 621 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: the trafficking happens right just right underneath your nose. I mean, 622 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: it could be the kid next to you with a 623 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: guardian type person and you just keep your ear to 624 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: the ground and hope to make eye contact. I mean 625 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: that's about the most I can I can relay about information. 626 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: But as an individual, what do you do to change 627 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: that or get help without putting yourself in danger? A 628 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: and our authorities going to believe you. According to the 629 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: A p l A County deputies found over a dozen 630 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: female victims, including children, working out of apartments turned brothels 631 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: cops provided very few details when asked about it. He 632 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 1: said that Las Vegas role um was being kept close 633 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: to the vest because they don't want any chance of 634 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: compromising their case by releasing information to the media. But 635 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: he did say that Vegas is considered a matrock quote 636 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: metropolis for trafficking because of large scale events like the 637 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: Mayweather McGregor fight upcoming and the reputation Vegas has. Sex 638 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: traffickers move from city to city to avoid the police 639 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: and capitalize on special events like NASCAR. This cop says 640 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: Detective Hicks, one day they're in l A. Then they're 641 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: in Vegas or Texas the next day. They actually call 642 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: it a quote circuit that they see an influx of 643 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: human trafficking, including children on weekends. And this is a 644 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: Las Vegas lieutenant speaking. The link between California in Vegas 645 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: is so strong that they attend meetings, regular meetings in 646 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: each other's jurisdictions to try to stop this. They're in 647 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: constant contact with each other, but it's not slowing down 648 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: the trade. Back out to Tim Ballard, Tim, how would 649 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: it go down if you are trying to book a 650 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: sex tour, a child sex tour, and you're going to 651 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: the Mayweather fight? How does that happen? So what they 652 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: would do is they're going to go online and and 653 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: this is why they're so mobile. This is why it's 654 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: easy to connection between l A, Las Vegas, Atlanta, wherever 655 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: they're moving these kids, because it's all online. They can 656 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: go online to any escort site, any legitimate social media site, 657 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: uh Craig's List, anywhere where people are buying things, are 658 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: exchanging things because they can use these legitimate sites and 659 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: the like I said, use code words and no one, 660 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: No one would know if if it was watching Um. 661 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: But they'd go there first, usually escort sites, and they 662 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: just start looking through because I've done this many many 663 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: times as a special agent, as an investigator. Um. It 664 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: goes through the different ads until you see something that 665 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: this looks a little bit different, looks a little bit 666 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: you know. For example, a lot of times these pims 667 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: have the kids write their own ads, even though they say, 668 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: you know, when they sign up because they have to 669 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: buy law, I'm over eighteen. But you you read the words, 670 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: you think that that sounds like a twelve year old's writing. 671 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: You know, there's something that that throws you, and you 672 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: you you go to that PIM and you say, I'm 673 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: interested in this, and then you get them offline and 674 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: start start the exchange. And you gotta know how to 675 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: talk to them without entrapping them and so forth. Um. 676 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: But because that's how they're doing it. They're booking it 677 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: through e sports sites, through legitimate social media sites Facebook pages, 678 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: and the word gets around, right, the word gets around 679 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: in the pedophile communities about who's selling what where, and 680 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: and you guys go up and down. They'll put up 681 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: a Facebook page, they'll take it down to pop up 682 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: somewhere else. Uh. To try to invade the police, but 683 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: so much of it's online any net stage especially well. 684 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: I can remember with me also in addition to Tim 685 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: Ballard is Nanette Sosa also with me Alan Duke, investigative reporter. Alan. 686 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: I can remember the first time I worked to bust 687 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: to child prostitution ring and we would be it would 688 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: be me and three other vice cops on the street. 689 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: And I remember it was cold every day and I 690 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: had some thin little coat I had gotten it. I 691 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: don't know where. It would be freezing trying to bust 692 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: this this ring. And I remember going into some flop 693 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: house and they said the girls in there. It was 694 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: a girl that had just like two days before turned thirteen. 695 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: And I went in the room and there are a 696 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: bunch of women and they're just kind of sitting around. 697 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 1: And I came back and I said, those are all women. 698 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: Where's the girl because I needed to get her so 699 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: I could talk to her, take care of her and 700 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 1: bust the case. They went, that's her in the boots. 701 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: I went back him. It looked like a thirty one 702 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: year old woman. She had on the high boots like 703 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: on pretty woman, and that the we've the long hair 704 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: all down her back turns of makeup, the long nails. 705 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: I look, I went that one, and he goes, yeah, 706 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: it was a little just turned thirteen year old girl. 707 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 1: And then you know we busted. We go to trial. 708 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: I take the three pimps is what they were then 709 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: now they're called even traffickers to trial. I got a 710 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: mistrial in my opening statement because I called one of 711 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 1: them a pimp and he wasn't charged with pimping. I 712 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: got a mistrial. The whole thing thrown out. Well, that 713 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: was on Monday, Tuesday. I took it back to the 714 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: grand jury and I had him charged with a simple 715 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: misdemeanor kunt of pimping. Got a new jury on Thursday 716 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: with a new indictment and retried him. But you know, 717 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: she was so scared that the night before testimony she 718 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: went missing. We had to do an a p B 719 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: all points bulletin, put it on the news all the 720 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: six o'clock and eleven o'clock news. We found in about 721 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 1: two am, and then you know, I was up all 722 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: night and then started the case again the next morning. 723 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: Needless to say, this guy was put in jail. But 724 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: how many more are out there? Alan? I mean, when 725 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: you hear stories like this and you're at the airport 726 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: or anywhere, it's scary. These are the age of my 727 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: children that are getting sold into human trafficking. Alan, It's 728 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: in every every small town, every small town. You see 729 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: that massage parlor thing. It may or may not be, 730 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: but that is one of the places they actually I've 731 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: read the State Department report on on that they actually 732 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: traveled in a circuit between those those massage parlors, if 733 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: you will. Another thing, um, Alan Nanette, Tim, is that 734 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: I spoke many many times with a team at Mercer 735 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: University that was undercovering human trafficking, and I think it 736 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: was massage parlors, just like Alan just said. And what's 737 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: so amazing is the case I was telling you about 738 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: between California and Vegas. There was a transaction where a 739 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: girl was sold in plane sight, in open sight, and 740 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: it turned into a six month investigation. It all started 741 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: with one missing child, one missing girl who turned up 742 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: to be one of these kids sold into sex trafficking. Yeah, 743 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: I'm missing kid now. Every now that I know that, 744 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: every time I see a missing team girl, I'm like, 745 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,959 Speaker 1: I wonder where she is? Right now? What about it? Tim? Yeah, 746 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,399 Speaker 1: I mean, it's you find that one kid and there's 747 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: gonna be there's there's there's others attached to it. I mean, 748 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad we're talking about this because people 749 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: think it's too often that it's it's an isolated incidences 750 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: like oh that the Mannie McCann case and Elizabeth Smart 751 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: that happens once every decade. I mean, there's why people 752 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,439 Speaker 1: who speak that, you know, and it's like, no, it's 753 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: it's it's multiple times a day in every country in 754 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: the world. And until we start talking about it, it's 755 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: not going away. Uh. You know, law enforcement, especially in 756 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: the US is doing uh an awesome, terrific job, but 757 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: it's just getting too big for anyone government, anyone agency. 758 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: People need to get involved. Media needs to talk about it. 759 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: People need to be reporting. They need to know that 760 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: number by heart that you gave earlier than uh, you know, 761 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: trafficking line. People need to get involved or this is 762 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,319 Speaker 1: not going away. Nancy May, I entergen four days ago. 763 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: I just wrote a story about forty four year old 764 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: Lee Hall, who was arrested in Fayetteville, Arkansas. He is 765 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: a resident of that small town that Alan Duke's talking about. 766 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: He's from Alma, Arkansas, UH for UH trafficking, human trafficking 767 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: and also for wanting to sell prostitutes. He is he's 768 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,399 Speaker 1: a Level three registered sex offender and Alma. He's also 769 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: a registered sex offender in Las Vegas. So you talk 770 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: about that small town circuit, it's ridiculous, Ninette and Tim, 771 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: My heart is just sick, sick when I think about 772 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: my little babies, who you know, they still right to Santa, 773 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,719 Speaker 1: they still believe in the tooth fairy, you know, and 774 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: children this age being sold into human trafficking. That number 775 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: is eight eight a three seven three seven eight a 776 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: A repeat eight eight eight three seven three seven eight 777 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:40,399 Speaker 1: eight eight. You can text help or info to three 778 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: three seven three three twenty four hours seven days a 779 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: week seven three sixty five eight eight eight three seven 780 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,959 Speaker 1: three seven eight eight. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 781 00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend one