1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Hello, Burden followers and fans. This is Steve Fishman and 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to introduce you to another great true 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: crime listen Smoke Screen My Friend the serial Killer. This 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: isn't just any story. This is a story of my 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: real life, first hand experience, and it's as terrifying as 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: it is fascinating. It begins with a simple car ride. 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: It's the seventies. I'm a young journalist hitchhiking and I 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: get picked up by a friendly, soft spoken stranger with 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: a charming Southern accent. But behind that charm hides a dark, 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: chilling secret. What I wouldn't find out until later was 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: that this stranger was a serial killer, hunting for his 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: next victim among hitchhikers. Smoke Screen My Friend the serial 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: Killer is available now wherever you get your podcasts, and 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: if you're a subscriber to The Binge, you can enjoy 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: all episodes ad free today. Here's a sneak peek a 16 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: quick warning before we start. This show contains descriptions of 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: sexual violence and murder. Listener discretion is advised. 18 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: Tell me about your first big break as a journalist. 19 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's nineteen seventy five. I'm a college dropout. 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: My dad has recently kicked me out of the house, 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: and I'm an intern at this small newspaper in Connecticut, 22 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: which means I get the pizza and the coffee. I 23 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: work weekends and do anything I can to get my 24 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: byline in the newspaper. Now, I love being in the newsroom. 25 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: It's full of life. I mean typewriters, police scanners, people shouting, 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: and in the back of the newsroom there's a kind 27 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: of closet with these newswire machines, and all day and 28 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: all night they found out breaking news stories. And when 29 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: there's an important story, bells ring one or two for 30 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: a minorly important story, to maybe a dozen bells for 31 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: say the invasion of a country or for big local news. 32 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: So one day I'm in the newsroom and the bells 33 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: start ringing like crazy. I rush over and watch as 34 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: the machine prints out this story. A man has just 35 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: confessed to the cops that he committed a series of 36 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: rapes and murders, crimes they didn't even know existed. And 37 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: he's a local man, the serial killer next door. Then 38 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: it prints the guy's name. Wait a second, I know 39 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: this guy, and it makes me realize I came close 40 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: to being a victim myself. 41 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: I was looking for a hit child, potential red victor. 42 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: This is my friend, the serial killer. I'm Steve Fishman. 43 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: Since starting out at the Norwich Bulletin, that small Connecticut paper, 44 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: I've had a long journalism career. One Awards covered a 45 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: lot of big, dark stories. The serial killer, son of 46 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: Sam opened up to me. So did the guy behind 47 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, Bernie Madoff. But this 48 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: story about the serial killer I knew, the serial killer 49 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: I became friendly with, was different. It was personal, and 50 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: in a sense, it's where journalism began for me. This 51 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: story has haunted me for years, for decades, really, which 52 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: is why for a long time I resisted it. I 53 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to revisit this territory. I didn't want to 54 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: think about the horror of the serial killer's crimes. But 55 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: there was another reason I resisted. I'm afraid my younger 56 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: self got this story wrong, and I haven't wanted to 57 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: revisit that either until now. Episode one. Local Man. 58 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: All right, so take me back to the very beginning 59 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: where this story. 60 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: Starts, well, probably in my parents' basement in suburban New Jersey. 61 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: I just dropped out of car all those discussions about 62 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: enlightenment poetry, and you know, whatever had stopped feeling exciting 63 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: to me certainly stopped feeling important. And anyway, dropping out 64 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: was kind of a thing in the seventies find yourself, remember, 65 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: So at first where I found myself was in my parents' house, 66 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: diligently trying to be a writer. My parents had this 67 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: basement kind of had small windows, so it was always 68 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: kind of gloomy, and they had this wet bar that 69 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: they never used. It had like a blue for micah countertop, 70 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: and that's where I set up my office. Every day. 71 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: I write these short stories out by long hand ardent accounts. 72 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know teenage romance in the style 73 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: of who was then my favorite writer, Hemingway. Listen, my 74 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: parents were not enthusiastic about my current lifestyle choice. My 75 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: father in particular, had no idea what the hell I 76 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: was doing. He wore a suit every day he worked 77 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: in the city. He commuted to a skyscraper, and every 78 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: now and then he would thump down these stairs and 79 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: he'd say to me, so, when are you going to 80 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: be done? When are you going to be published these 81 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: short stories. It was as if he was asking me, like, 82 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing. I think he kind 83 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: of thought I was pulling a stunt to him. You know, 84 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: I was avoiding being an adult, and then one day 85 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: he cracks. 86 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: What do you mean he cracks? 87 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: Well, it must have been a weekend. I remember he 88 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: sat me down at our breakfast table. He's backly by 89 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: the sun, so he's got this kind of fuzzy halo 90 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: effect on him, and he tells me I have to 91 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: leave the house. I have to leave home. And then 92 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: he starts to cry. 93 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: Wait, so he is telling you to leave the house, 94 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: but that he's crying. 95 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's confusing. It was confusing. Then it confuses me. 96 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Now I have this reaction like he's crying, so I 97 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: got to comfort him. It's all right, dad, I understand. 98 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: I'll go pack a few things. I think the idea 99 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: for him of tossing me out of my childhood home 100 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: must have seemed sadistic, which in a way it was. 101 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: But he had this idea that at nineteen years old, 102 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: I should be on my way to taking on responsibilities. 103 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: So my dad hustles me into the car and drives me. 104 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: I think it was like fifteen minutes away and says basically, 105 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: all right, here you are and dumps me on the sidewalk. 106 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: And in my memory, he just leaves me on the 107 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: sidewalk to hitchhike. And the truth is, you know, I 108 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: was okay with that. Frankly, I hated being in that basement. 109 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: I knew I had to get out of that dungeon. 110 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: I had needed to leave college, and now I needed 111 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: to leave the suburbs. I mean, if I was going 112 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: to write anything, I needed to find something to write about. 113 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: So there I am on the side of that road. 114 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: I stick out my thumb. You have to remember that 115 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: back then, it's like nineteen seventy five, it's just not 116 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: such a big deal to hitchhike. It's a way to 117 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: get around, especially if you don't have a car, which 118 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: I didn't. I start getting rides and soon I land 119 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: that internship at that daily newspaper in Norwich, Connecticut, and 120 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, I figured Emmingway had been a journalist too, 121 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: And at that newspaper is where the course of my 122 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: directionless life changes forever. I mean, I will never forget 123 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: the first time I walked into this newspaper. It's like 124 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: eight o'clock at night. The town is totally dead. But 125 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: I walk into the paper's office, which is on the 126 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: second floor, and the place is lit up like a ballpark. 127 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: So remember this is back before everyone is on the internet. 128 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: People still trust journalists. Newspapers are booming. I mean I 129 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: could hear it all the clatter of typing and yelling. 130 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: It was really vibrant. It was really alive. And then 131 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: I sit down with the managing editor in his little office. Oh, 132 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: by the way, seemed really old to me at the 133 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: time though he was twenty eight. And the managing editor 134 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: seems confused. I'm not really sure he knew that the 135 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: paper had an internship program, so he kind of ignores me. 136 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: He sits across the desk, goes about his business, and 137 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: gets on the phone with one of his cop buddies, 138 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: because I think this guy really wanted to be a 139 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: cop more than a journalist. And as I'm sitting there, 140 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: he's got this cop on the line and he's holding 141 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: forth and they're having a grand old time. And then 142 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: I overhear the cop who's on the other end of 143 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: the line revealed the name of a dead person so 144 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: that the paper can include it. Before deadline. And now 145 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: this editor, my future boss, stands up and yells across 146 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: the newsroom to the reporter who's covering homicides do you 147 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: have the name of that dead guy yet? And then 148 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: he turns to me and his face breaks into a 149 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: wicked smile. As I would later find out, the boss 150 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: loved trauma. He loved competition, he loved journalism, and he 151 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: loved journalism prizes. I took it all in. This did 152 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: not feel like college. It felt like there were steaks, 153 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: there were deadlines, there were dead bodies, and so I'm 154 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: thinking this is going to be fun. So now I 155 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: fall into the routine of the newspaper, and also I 156 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: keep hit jriking. Sometimes the rides are great. You would 157 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: get these mothers who would have their children in the 158 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: back seat, or you know, young hippies and mini buses 159 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: who would offer me drugs, and also you know dreams 160 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: of changing my life, like buying a van and painting 161 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: it purple and driving across America. And then there were 162 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: other kinds of rides. One time, a couple of guys 163 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: took me to the end of a dirt road and 164 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: right before they steal my backpack, one of them says 165 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: to me, don't you know you shouldn't hitchhike. Maybe I'm 166 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: willfully oblivious, but I figure I've been lucky enough. I'm 167 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: gonna keep hitch shaking. One weekend, it must have been 168 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: around the fall of nineteen seventy five, I just turned 169 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: twenty and I need to get back to Norwich from Boston, 170 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: where i'd been visiting friend. So here I am again 171 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: on the side of the road, thumb out and waiting 172 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: for a ride. 173 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: Do you remember the moment when the car picked you up? 174 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: So I was on the side of the road and 175 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: there's a saber. The car, in my memory is kind 176 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: of a green, you know, a sedan, like a nice 177 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: enough car pulled up and I was just really happy. 178 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: But there's this guy, like nice enough. He had a 179 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: kind of like a bit of a drawl. He seemed 180 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: to be kind of my size, kind of red orange hair. 181 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: He probably was ten fifteen years older than me at 182 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: the time. I tell him I'm going to Norwich and 183 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm lucky. He says he's from Norwich and he knows 184 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: a shortcut. Nice guy tells me his nickname is red 185 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: like his hair. So he seemed like a little bit 186 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: like a stranger, but not like strange, but a stranger. 187 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: And we kind of fell into conversation about like, so 188 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: where are you from what do you do? And he says, well, 189 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm kind of an electrician, but you know, I'm trying 190 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: to get on my feet. I said, yeah, it's not 191 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: easy always. He said, well that's you know, I just 192 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: him out of prison. So that's both like a conversation stopper. 193 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: And now I'm thinking, wow, this could be a story, 194 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, like feature a guy just coming out of 195 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: prison reintegration into society. Now I'm trying to draw him 196 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: out about it, and would you be open to doing 197 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: a story about it? And he says sure, Yeah, sure. 198 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean he's a guy who's articulate, he's friendly, he's open. 199 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: Fifteen twenty minutes go by, and we're getting to my destination. 200 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: I jock down his contact information. The car stops. I 201 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: reach for the door handle and it doesn't open. The 202 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: handle just doesn't work. I turned quickly see what the 203 00:14:51,600 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: hell's going on, and I feel panic taking over. We're 204 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: going to come back to that ride, but first I 205 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: need to introduce you to a guy in Miami. 206 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: My name's Ed O'Donnell. 207 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm an attorney now. It's June nineteen seventy six. Ed 208 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: O'Donnell is a prosecutor in Miami, Florida, where something strange 209 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: is about to happen in the courtroom. 210 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: The case started as a rape case. He got basically 211 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: caught in the air. 212 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: So the alleged rapist is awaiting his bond hearing to 213 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: see if he'll get bail. Before the hearing starts, the 214 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: suspect motions to an officer in the courtroom, and the 215 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: officer in uniform walks over, clearly annoyed. Is this important, 216 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: he says. The suspect replies, is important. 217 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: He started wanting to talk to the uniform guy about murders. 218 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: And you know, the uniform guys are just that they 219 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: don't take statements. They contacted homicide. 220 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: The suspect is brought from the bond hearing to a 221 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: couple of homicide detectives. 222 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 3: And they came to me and told me that this 223 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: guy wants to confess to these murders. And I said, well, 224 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: what you know, let them confess. You know, you never 225 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 3: know people confess the things they didn't do. But let's 226 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: find out. 227 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: The detectives give the guy a notepad. On it, he 228 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: writes four names of people, two boys, a girl, and 229 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: a young woman. The detectives don't recognize any of these names. 230 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: The suspect tells the cops to go check missing persons. 231 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: One of these detectives, this guy named Charlie's Atra Palak, 232 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: heads over to the missing person's desk. He starts with 233 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: the two boys the suspect mentioned. 234 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 4: I said, well, I'm looking for two kids. 235 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 3: They're together. 236 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: And I said, you got anything like that, I mean, 237 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 4: whether the detectives had to be sitting there. He goes, yeah, 238 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 4: he's got a case like that. 239 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: He said, we thought they ran away that, so I 240 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 3: don't think they did. 241 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: Okay, consider this scene for a moment. Here is a 242 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: suspect caught in the act of rape who now wants 243 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: to voluntarily confess to being a serial killer. The murders 244 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 1: he wants to claim are not active cases. They're not 245 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: even cold cases. No one knew these were murders to 246 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: solve until he starts talking. 247 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 4: Following interviews being videotaped at to Day County Public Safety 248 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: Departments located at thirteen to twenty Northwest fourteenth Street, Miami Dade, County, Florida, 249 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 4: Room five eighteen on June seventeen, if I think seventy six, 250 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 4: starting at approximately eight pm. 251 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: They've brought the suspect to a kind of TV studio 252 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: they have at the police station. It's typically used to 253 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: record training sessions, but they've decided to use it to 254 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: film these confessions. They will be one of the first 255 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: ever videotape murdered confessions in US history, and much of 256 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: this tape has never been heard before. The suspect goes 257 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: willingly without his lawyer. 258 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 5: And sir, would you identify yourself by name? Is prov. 259 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: On the video. The two homicide detectives face the suspect, 260 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: Robert F. Carr, the third. They're just a couple of 261 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: feet apart. Remember it's the seventies. One cop looks mod 262 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: with a mustache and bangs kind of Beatles style. The 263 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: suspect is smoking. There's a clock on the wall showing 264 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: the time and dated the recording. Behind the suspect is 265 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: a blackboard, as if it's a classroom. The two detectives 266 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: called the suspect by his first name, Bob, like their pals. 267 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 5: Should you talk to me anything, what you say, Ken, 268 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 5: and we'll be introduced into everything court against you. You 269 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 5: understand that, Bob, if you want an attorney to represent 270 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 5: you at this time or anytime, if you're in questioning, 271 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 5: you're intalitled to such constant. 272 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: You understand that. 273 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: That's so. 274 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 3: You know, he was obviously advised of his rights and 275 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 3: told that no promises could be made to him. You 276 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 3: know anything he told us, and we made it real explicit. 277 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 3: You know, we're gonna we're gonna find out whether all 278 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 3: this is true. Boy, he unloaded. I'll tell you that 279 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: they'd asked the questions, he'd answer them, and then he'd 280 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: go he you missed this, or he'd give you more. 281 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like it. And forty years later, 282 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 3: whatever it is, I've never seen anything like it since. 283 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 3: And I've done a lot of homicide work. 284 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: On the tape. One detective asks Bob a question. 285 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 5: Well, Corn your attention to March nineteen seventy six. Do 286 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 5: you have an occasion of being the Daye County area. 287 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 6: Yes, as there as I can figure. I arrived in 288 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 6: the Dade County area in Miami on March twenty fifth 289 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 6: from Connecticut, and on arriving in Miami, I perceived because 290 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 6: certain fighting said, I considered to be necessary in the 291 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 6: crime that I'm planned to commit. What kind of clime? 292 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 6: When did you play like many? When you came down 293 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 6: althoad kidnappen Right. I knew that I was going to 294 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 6: take a trip. I knew that I was going to 295 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 6: Mississippi on this trip. 296 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: Uh. 297 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 6: I proceeded to make a list of what items I 298 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 6: thought I would need in order to make this trip. 299 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 6: And every time I thought of something, I was guided 300 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 6: on a piece of paper. 301 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: He's making a shopping list. 302 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 6: I knew the night that was that was that the 303 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 6: sight of it would writing somebody. 304 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 5: It had to be chrome so that it would show 305 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 5: it and them life. Uh. 306 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 6: I needed rope, gasoline, can goods, UH, paper. 307 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: Towels and uh. 308 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 6: First on this list of items was uh the connect 309 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 6: the door handle on the right hand side of the car. 310 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: The door handle disconnected on purpose. 311 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: I was looking for a hitchhi potential. 312 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 5: Right. 313 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 6: There many victims that grabbed the door hand. That seems 314 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 6: to be. 315 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 5: Not a reaction for everybody. 316 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 6: That's the first thought. 317 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 5: Grab the ball handle, try to get out. 318 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 6: The minute the ball handle doesn't work, Like was like, 319 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 6: I don't know what to doing it. 320 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do when it was me 321 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: in that seat. So there I am in Connecticut, hitch shiking, 322 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: about to get out of that green sedan, and I'm 323 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: grabbing the door handle, but nothing happens, like it doesn't 324 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: care hatch and I freeze. 325 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: What are you thinking in this moment? 326 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm thinking at all. But if I'm thinking, 327 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking what the hell is going on and what 328 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: is going to happen? Except that this guy seems nice. 329 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: We had a nice conversation. He's from the same town 330 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: where I live, and so for a moment I'm on 331 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: the edge of panic. But before it escalates, this nice 332 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: guy interrupts. He's almost apologetic. He says, oh, sorry, there's 333 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: something wrong with the door handle. I gotta get it fixed. 334 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: It's warm out and the car window is open. I 335 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: reach my arm out and open it from outside. I 336 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: shall goodbye and then hustle along. I push that really 337 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: weird moment out of my mind and I start thinking, 338 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, I need a feature story for the week. 339 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: This guy told me he was in a rehab program 340 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: for ex cons. He'd gotten a job at a gas station, 341 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: and I think that might be a story. A local 342 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: man trying to reintegrate into society after prison. When I 343 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: get back to the newsroom, I track down the supervisor 344 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: of this rehab program, and the supervisor gets on the 345 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: phone and he says, do you know what this guy 346 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: did to get into jail? And I realize I don't. 347 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: I hadn't asked him. You know, I'm still an inexperienced journalist. 348 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to know, he says, in other words, 349 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: no story. Kind of amazing to me now that I 350 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: didn't push to find out what crime could be so 351 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: awful that this supervisor would veto an interview. So that 352 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: was it. And then you know, you had that kind 353 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: of gray metal desk, and I pulled out a bottom 354 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: drawer night and I slipped his name and number into 355 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: a folder and put his name on the tab of 356 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: the folder, Robert Carr, and kind of forgot about it. 357 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: Months go by and I start getting assignments everything from 358 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: high school football games to a highly competitive local easter 359 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: a hunt. I know how that sounds, but I will 360 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: tell you that I felt like I was in the 361 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: thick of it, and I was having a blast, still 362 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: really looking to make a splash. Back then, as I 363 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: think about it now. I was pretty full of myself. 364 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: I'm pretty eager for the rest of the world to 365 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: see how important I was, or you know, going to be, 366 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: and that noisy little newsroom felt like the place where 367 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: I was going to prove myself. Looking back, I realized 368 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: that I was very ambitious and maybe blinded by my ambition. 369 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: I think that explains what happens next. The newsflash comes 370 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: across the wire, the one with the bells ringing like crazy, 371 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: the one that reports on the local man arrested for 372 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: a series of rapes and murders. I'm standing in front 373 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: of the wire machine in my tie. The newspaper had 374 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: a strict dress code. I can read this story as 375 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: the teletype is spitting it out, and I start to 376 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: get more details. It says the man captured his victim's hitchhiking, 377 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: and then it prints his name, and I shiver, Robert F. Carr, 378 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: the third. I go back to my filing cabin and 379 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: then I pull out the contact info I'd stuffed in 380 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: there months before. It matches, and suddenly I realize I'd 381 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: taken a ride with a serial killer, A serial killer 382 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: who got his victim's hitchhiking, who had trapped them with 383 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: a disconnected door handle. I had sat in that seat, 384 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: had a friendly conversation with him, and then I had 385 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: tried to open that door handle, just like his victims 386 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: must have done. And for a moment, my mind is 387 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: back there in that car with what I now know 388 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: to be a serial killer, and I can feel the 389 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: panic rides in my stomach. But then my thoughts turn elsewhere, 390 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking this could be the break that I've 391 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: been looking for. This could be a big story, and 392 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: if I landed, it could win awards. And you know what, 393 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: my dad would understand awards, And so me, ambitious twenty 394 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: year old me who duck, kidnapping or worse, is thrilled. 395 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: What a break for my career. I'd met a local 396 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: man who is a confessed serial killer, and I have 397 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: his phone number. I dial the number, A woman answers. 398 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: I tell her I'm calling from the Norwich Bulletin and 399 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: I say missus Carr. She says yes, and I say 400 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: I have to come over and see you. That's next time. 401 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm on My Friend the serial Killer for the full story, 402 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: search for smokescreen My Friend the Serial Killer. Wherever you 403 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: get your podcasts to listen now. My Friend the Serial 404 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: Killer is a production of Orbit Media in association with 405 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: Ron creator and host That's Me, Steve Fishman. Our senior 406 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: producer is Dan Bobkoff. Our associate producer and production coordinator 407 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: is Austin Smith. Editorial consulting by Annie Avilese, fact check 408 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: Katherine Newhan. Our mixer and sound designer is Scott Somerville 409 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: from Sony Music Entertainment. Our executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch 410 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: and Katherine Saint Louis. Additional reporting by Daniel Bates, Ben 411 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: furderherd Andy Tibau, and Francisco Alvarado. Special thanks to Cassie 412 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: Epps at Otis Library in Norwich, Connecticut