1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: our compatried Noel is away at the moment, but never 6 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: fear he will be returning very soon. In the meantime, 7 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: they still call me Ben. We're here with our super 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: producer Paul Deck and you are you and that makes 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. Another person 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: who works here. His name is Christopher Hassiotis. He's on 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: the research team at stuff Media. I guess how stuff works. 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Stuff Media, and he sent us something that we He 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: sent it to us yesterday I think, or maybe the 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: day before, and Ben Nolan I all just went, oh, 15 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: this is an episode that we are producing right now 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: and we can't wait to get you into it. But 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: we're not going to spoil it. The first thing we're 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: gonna do is just talk about health. Yes, health, medicine, 19 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: What does it mean? Yes? Panaceas? Did they exist? What 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: is the cure for what all ails? You? I do 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: want to say if you would like to hear some 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: of Christopher's other works he is he is consistently recommending 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: some great stories for us to share on social media 24 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 1: under our various conspiracy stuff monikers. Uh. You can also 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: hear Christopher semi live and definitely in person behind a 26 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: hot mic by tuning into an excellent show that Lauren 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Vogelbaum produced called How Stuff Works Now. And it's sort 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: of a cavalcade a very interesting stories, So do check 29 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: that out. In the meantime, as Matt said, healthy and 30 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, 31 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: when we when we think about health in this day 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: and age, you know, it's no secret that there are horrible, 33 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: horrific things going on in the world. Zimbabwe, as we 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: record this is currently on the tread even closer to 35 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: the brink of destabilization. Earthquake in Iran Iraq border. They're 36 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: just killed some thousand or people. Puerto Rico also devastated 37 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: by a hurricane. Killings in the United States, the Pacific, 38 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: the Pacific region, the Pacific theater is inching closer and 39 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: closer to a nuclear exchange. But despite all of these 40 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: horrible things, Oh and someone keeps making Transformer movies, Paul 41 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: looking at you. No, no, no, actually I watched Transformer 42 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: movies too. But despite these horrific things, which are not jokes, 43 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: and the terrible jokes we make about terrible things, you 44 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: have to sit back and admit overall, we as a 45 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: species have it pretty good right now, especially in a 46 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: medical sense. I mean absolutely. Can you imagine getting sick 47 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: five hundred years ago, even a hundred years ago, getting 48 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: sick to the point of needing let's say, a surgeon, 49 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: Oh boy, yeah, And depending on kind of how far 50 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: back in the timeline we go, needing a surgeon becomes 51 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: increasingly disturbing. It's the worst. You know. It's like the 52 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: old story about barber poles and how they came about. 53 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: You remember that, right, Yeah? Yeah, So, way back in 54 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: the day in Western Europe, there was this concept that 55 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: barber were also inherently qualified to be surgeons, the argument 56 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: being that, well, if they can figure out how to 57 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: cut your hair, they should be capable of cutting anything else. Yeah. 58 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of people died, a lot 59 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: of good people, probably some bad ones too. Yeah, street 60 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: razors could be used for a lot of things. Absolutely, 61 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: And if we were to attempt to describe all the 62 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: medical advancements made from just nineteen seventeen to twenty seventeen, 63 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: we would have to start an entirely different show, and 64 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: Paul Matt and I would have to go somewhere and brainstorm. 65 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: Uh title that was better than all the medical advancements 66 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: made from nineteen seventeen to seen. I don't know. I'm 67 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: kind of digging that, you know. I think it's a 68 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: cool idea, But that name is way too long. I 69 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: think that's what makes it special. There you go. Uh, 70 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: it is nomenclature aside, it is an important perspective to 71 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: consider when we think about this. We can look at 72 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: it another way too. We can look at it in 73 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: a different direction and ask ourselves, what will people living 74 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: in twenty one seventeen think of the medical technology and 75 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: techniques used today in our time here in good old WHOA, 76 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: What essentially will be the future of medicine. Well, I mean, 77 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: I have some ideas, but you know, you know me, 78 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: it gets a little dark. Uh, But but that's okay. 79 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about integrating man and machine and how 80 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: that's going to become the new normal. But just to 81 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: get this out of the way, up front. Sure, we 82 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: know that this can be a touch of subject anytime 83 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: you're talking about health, because you're also inherently talking about mortality, absolutely, 84 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: and you know that is the one thing we all 85 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: have in common. But we want to be clear. We're 86 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: not doctors. But and I have no physician background anything 87 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: like that. We don't have degrees in any of that. 88 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: So we're not dispensing any kind of medical medical advice 89 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: to you. We're not trying to tell you how to 90 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: think about this stuff. We're just gonna telling how it 91 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: is pretty much. Well, for the record, I do know 92 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: first aid, so oh hey, me too, CPR and everything. Yeah, 93 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: so if you meet, if you meet us, and I 94 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: assume Paul does as well, No, okay, all right, Okay, 95 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: if you're choking, no, it's cool because we hang out 96 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: outside of work. And so if you if you happen 97 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: to see this in person, we can you know, reset 98 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: your disjointed or dislocated arm or make us splint for 99 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: you or something. But yeah, we are not giving anyone 100 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: medical advice. And if you have a compound fracture, don't 101 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: call me. Okay, go to go to bed with compound fractures, 102 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: all right, so we've established that here are the facts. 103 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: Here's here's the weirdest thing. Over the span of human civilization, 104 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: we have been making scientific advancements that later become medical 105 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: advancements or medical breakthroughs. Right now, every time we make 106 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: a mistake in some field, in some way, we learn 107 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: from it and we don't do it again. Well in theory, 108 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: and the weird thing is that these discoveries do not 109 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: exist in a vacuum. There's a bit of a positive 110 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: feedback loop that took a long time to get running. 111 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: There's a bit of a snowball effect that started rolling 112 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: very slowly at first. But now it is no secret 113 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: that the pace of medical advancement itself just what some 114 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: of our bosses like to call the cadence of this advancement. 115 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: It's accelerating, it's increasing. In an article for Forbes, Scott 116 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: Godly notes and got a quote here, the pace at 117 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: which fundamental discoveries of basic science are being uncovered is accelerating, 118 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: as is the speed at which medical practice is being 119 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: transformed by these inventions. Metamorphics changes, Gottlieb says, are sweeping 120 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: a wider breath of clinical areas more regularly than at 121 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: any time in the history of science. Wow, that's inspiring. 122 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: It is in a in a very real literal way. 123 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: Time is accelerating in the medical field. I mean saying 124 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: that does have sort of a buzz feede headline to it, 125 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: but it is true in the past. You know, the 126 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: first question is, well, well, what gives what made us 127 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: such a plotting Peters or stumbling Stevens earlier? Just making 128 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: up names, No worries. The plotting stumbling Peter Stevens had 129 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot to do with communication and how much it cost, 130 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: both in in real time and in materials to send 131 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: messages to someone, especially if you're sending it further away 132 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: than inside your town for something. Right, Yeah, we've we've 133 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: mentioned this in past that episodes. Long time listeners are 134 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: probably familiar with this concept and Matt's Matt spot on. 135 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: When we say costs of communication, we don't necessarily mean 136 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: how much did it how much whatever the currency at 137 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: the time was, did it take for you to send 138 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: a message? Or it's not just that, it's not about 139 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: your ex affinity account costs, right, it's it is, as 140 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: Matt said, time and materials, and time is the primary 141 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: factor here. So not only could people not learn about 142 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: a treatment on the internet, which is its whole, other, whole, 143 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: other sacic cats. But gosh, for much of human civilization, 144 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: books themselves were also incredibly rare, and literacy rates were 145 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: tremendously low. So even if you could communicate like easily 146 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: and effectively, maybe the person you're writing to can't understand you, 147 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: or maybe you can't understand. And most people lived and 148 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: died within a relatively small number of miles from where 149 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: they were born. So so let's imagine that you're a 150 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: patient back in these days, and you were trying to 151 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: get information about, you know, what's wrong with me. My 152 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: leg really hurts and there's some kind of hole in there, 153 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: but I can't figure out what's going on. I don't 154 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: know what it is. How do I find out? Well, 155 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: that whole thing where you can't communicate very well doesn't 156 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: only apply to you, the patient. It applies to the 157 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: physician that you would want to go and see. So 158 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: here's the other thing. These physicians, you know, they're across 159 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: the world, and their medical advancements happening in different pockets, 160 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: in different you know, parts of civilization. And when you 161 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: can't communicate between let's say Britain and Italy. They're not 162 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: going to know the advancements that are occurring on the 163 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: other side. They can't compare notes exactly, so it's having 164 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: to develop almost in isolation until you have you know, 165 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: someone who takes the ship, let's say, across from Italy 166 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: to Britain and spend some time in London or something, right, 167 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: or some sort of emissary is exploring for a different 168 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: for different reason than they also happen to know something 169 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: very obvious to them that is unknown to the people 170 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: at the time. For instance, uh, the idea that consuming 171 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: citrus fruits were impossible on a long maritime voyage will 172 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: combat scurvy, right and there. I'm sure that there were 173 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people at the time who didn't know that, 174 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: many because they would never write about exactly. But the 175 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's neither here nor there. The important 176 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: part is just as you said, Matt, which is that 177 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: these things are developing in isolation, and the pace of 178 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: communication did exist, but it was galacial compared to what 179 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: we have today. Physicians might also, it must be said, 180 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: be bound by spiritual or religious explanations for an ailment. 181 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: You did not get the plague because of a bite 182 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: from a flea that was carried by a rat. You 183 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: got the plague because you ate meat on Friday and 184 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: are therefore ungodly because you could have bought an indulgence 185 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: or dispensation but you didn't. So for you, for the 186 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: sin of not participating in extortion, you have the plague. 187 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: But we put a disclaimer here. We're not telling you 188 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: what to believe. But you know, think with your head, 189 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: all right, boy, well this is that's not a ding on. 190 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: That's not a ding on the concept of spiritual religious 191 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: explanations for an ailment, which you know in some cases 192 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: exist today. It's historical, right. People are as a species. 193 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: We are explainers, we are classifiers. We seek to understand 194 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: the inexplicable and the incomprehensible, and so we have to 195 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: find a cause. We have to have an If then 196 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: the other thing that would happen is physicians might aside 197 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: from any ideological beliefs, and ideological is probably a better 198 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: word than spiritual religious at this time. Aside from that, 199 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: and in a more secular way, they may cling to 200 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: traditional beliefs despite indications that other treatments might be more effective. 201 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: Not to mention less dangerous like like. For a long time, 202 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: there was a concept that, uh, just by overwhelming evidence 203 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: to the contrary, the consumption of mercury could possibly, um 204 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: could possibly allow people to live for a longer span 205 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: of time. As we know, and as was fairly apparent 206 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: right to many observers even in the time when this 207 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: belief was prevalent, especially after trying it for a little while, 208 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: especially after trying it, as we know now that consumption 209 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: mercury has the opposite effect in a to an extreme degree. 210 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: Oh side note, Matt, I feel you already know this one, 211 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: so stop me if you've heard it. Do you remember 212 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: do you know why the mad hatter is no alice 213 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: in Wonderland? Do you know the story of mad hatters? No? No, no, no, 214 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: just the phrase mad hatter? I do not. So when 215 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: these habit dashers would create or form hats, get historically 216 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: they would use chemicals like mercury to assist in the 217 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, solidifying the shape, right, And what happened is 218 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: that over time, exposure to these chemicals started affecting the 219 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: mental faculties of these hat makers, these haberdashers, and then 220 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: the phrase mad as a hatter originated from that it's 221 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: not a it's not just a funny joke. March Hare 222 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: by the way of course, being like spring repert to madness. 223 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: But the the interesting thing to me is that now 224 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: was some point in time where somebody, probably in Europe, 225 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: looked at someone else and they're like, hey, man, I'm 226 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: worried about Steve, like he's been acting real weird, and 227 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, but his hat game is so on point. Yeah, 228 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: And that's how you end up with stuff like mustard. 229 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: Don't let's be Silley. That's perfect. That is a direct quote. Yeah, Mustard, 230 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: that's not a serious condiment. Can you imagine we don't 231 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: really believe that. Don't send us hey mail about Mustard. 232 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: So you see the problem here, folks. You see the dilemma. 233 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: The There are multiple completely understandable reasons why the pace 234 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: of medical treatment and medical breakthroughs is slow at this 235 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: point in time. And we can journey through history and 236 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: explore this relationship between just the what we would call 237 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: the pure scientific discovery and the medical applications. Paul, can 238 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: we get like some sort of time travel noise. Okay, 239 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: here we go. We're in century, We're in the sixteenth century. 240 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: That's like everything looks so assassined, creety. Right now, I 241 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: can hear the horses, and you can smell the smells right, potent, yes, potent. Indeed, 242 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: my friend, we are actually at the exact, well, the 243 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: approximate moment in time where the concept of germ theory 244 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: was first proposed. Germ theory this is, this is the 245 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: idea that somehow disease whenever your body gets sick, it's 246 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: somehow linked to these tiny little things that we now 247 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: know are micro organisms, right invisible to the naked eye. 248 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: So over the next few centuries, now we're now we're 249 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: traveling through centuries really quickly. Over the next few centuries 250 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: there would be additional discoveries that lent further credence to 251 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: this concept. However, it wasn't until the nineteen century that doctors, 252 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: or the western ones at least, even began washing their 253 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: hands at all. Check it out. Matt In Hungarian physician 254 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: named Ignaz Philip Samuel Weiss proposed that maternal death death 255 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: during childbirth could be sharply cut when obstetricians washed their 256 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: hands before conducting you know, before uh, the before that's right, 257 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: you have Specifically, they recommend a chlorinated lime solution. You 258 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: can't use that coal? Oh man. Yeah, okay, I just 259 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: had a flashback of work. We're good. But it seems 260 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: so simple, right, Yeah, it does seem pretty simple. Uh. 261 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: Here's what happened to Ignaz. Well, nobody took this guy seriously. 262 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: He was ridiculed for having this belief and for in 263 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: his mind figuring out, oh, this might be the problem. 264 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: His colleagues just just ribbed him the whole time. He 265 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: died in an asylum in eighteen sixty five, where he 266 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: was put involuntarily. Yeah, because he was crazy telling people 267 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: to wash their hands. You tell me to wash my 268 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: hands like some kind of peasant doing laundry. Get out 269 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: of here, simil vice. Go back to your room. But 270 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: there was only two weeks after guards. Let's just say 271 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: they beat him up. They beat him up to the 272 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: niche of his life. Look, I think we should use 273 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: an accurate description. And it's fine to beat if you want. 274 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: They beat the ever living out of him in eighteen 275 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: sixty five. He died two weeks after this vicious beating. 276 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: Only later, much later, did history acknowledge his prescience. Yeah, 277 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: his understanding, And man, this guy could have saved a hole. 278 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: He did to save a whole bunch of people in 279 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: a way, but ultimately he was just persecuted for it. 280 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: And Louis Pasteur around somewhere at the same time, confirmed 281 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: the germ theory in the eighteen sixties, and then few 282 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: years after that, Joseph Lister began introducing sterile techniques into surgery. 283 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: And ah, you don't have to just wash your hands, 284 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: you wash your implements too. You mean, like a peasant 285 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: doing laundry. I'm just imagining, why would you get so 286 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: angry about this idea, because you know, we have the 287 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: privilege of retrospect now, and it is an immense and 288 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: powerful privilege because you know, the average person living in 289 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: the US washes their hands multiple times a day, right, 290 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: thanks to Pasteur, And I wonder if it's just the 291 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: At the time, it was the implication that this physician 292 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: is dirty in some way, or this physician, you know, 293 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: this physician's tools are unclean. Right. So it wasn't until 294 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: much much later that these original findings began to significantly 295 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: impact medical practice and the experimental methods, the lab tools, 296 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: the scientific insights were finally at hand, not only to 297 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: explain how germs caused disease, but to explain how this 298 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: how this process could be mitigated or somewhat controlled to 299 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: help patients and all at all, this took about three 300 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: years from the sixteenth century to the nineteenth century. And 301 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: this is just one discovery, and each single one leads 302 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: to other discoveries. And so as long as there aren't 303 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, any kind of giant at asteroids that impact 304 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: your Earth or some other catastrophe, and we'll just cross 305 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: our fingers that nothing's going to happen in the next 306 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: few hours here, it makes sense for our species to 307 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: discover and apply all these new technologies at an increasingly 308 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: rapid pace. Especially you've taken to that communication thing. Now, 309 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: now that I can get on this laptop here and 310 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: shoot an email email off to anybody anywhere in the 311 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: entire planet that has access to the Internet, I mean, 312 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: we can do this, right, So, yes, okay, It's true 313 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: it took three years for the world to agree that 314 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: doctors should wash their hands, But by way of contrast, 315 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: it only took thirty years for modern scientific work on 316 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: immune cells to translate into the development of some of 317 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: the world's most powerful, most efficacious drugs. However, this is 318 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: not all uh warm fuzzies, hugs from Grandma, fresh cookies, 319 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: unicorns and rainbows. It's not even rickshaws, stiff drinks and 320 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: lava lamps, no, sir. As you see, along with the 321 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: increase in effectiveness, we are also as a species seeing 322 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: unequal access to medicine, rising cost especially in the field 323 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: of proprietary biotech or drugs. And we're seeing increasingly disturbing 324 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: possibilities for the future of patient privacy. And we're not 325 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: even getting into healthcare costs in the United States, which 326 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: is a whole other thing. Will inevitably be called to 327 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: make an update for that one pretty soon too, with 328 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: what's going on. But these concerns that men's talking about 329 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: about privacy, they they are particularly strange. Yes, longtime listeners, 330 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, you've heard us explore the erosion of 331 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: privacy of multiple fields, from the world's governments to its 332 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: grocery stores and even unto the phone you may be 333 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: using to listen to this podcast right now. But it 334 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: goes deeper than that. The future of medicine, you see, 335 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: is upon us digital medicine. Welcome to the rabbit hole. 336 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: Don't worry, will monitor your vitals while this handy message 337 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: from our sponsor invades your headholes. Here's where it gets crazy. 338 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: In a recent article for The New York Times dated No. 339 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: Actually of this year, right before we recorded this podcast, 340 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: a journalist named Pam Billock Bellock Let's Say explores the 341 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: u s. Food and Drug Administration the f d a's 342 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: decision to approve a quote digital pill, Oh boy, a 343 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: medicine containing a sensor that can tell doctors when and 344 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: if a patient is taking their medicine. You may be 345 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: asking what sort of pill are we talking. This choice 346 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: was very interesting to us because the pilling question is 347 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: a variant of a name brand anti psycho day Abilify Yes, 348 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: and this product is approved for the treatment of schizophrenia, 349 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: acute treatment of mannequin mixed episodes associated with bipolar one disorder, 350 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: and for use as an add on treatment for depression 351 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: in adults. The FDA granted the approval of Abilify my 352 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: site to Otsuka Pharmaceutical Company Limited, and the sensor technology 353 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: and the patch are made by this company called Proteus 354 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: Digital Health. What's that, you say, a smart pill? Well, 355 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: how does it work? Well, let me tell you. The 356 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: patient takes a pill. You see that makes sense. Then 357 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: the pill sensor tracks that it's been ingested. Okay, Then 358 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: that pill sends a signal to a patch worn by 359 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: the patient. Then the patch sends a signal to a 360 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: mobile application that allows patients to track their medication use. 361 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: And here's where it gets really interesting. Um for people 362 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: who are thinking already, oh my god, my alarms going off, 363 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: I don't like this concept at all. I'm not even 364 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: ever going to use this, but I hate this idea. Well, 365 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: the patient has to give permission to the caregiver or 366 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: to the physicians to access the information, and they do 367 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: that through a web based portal. But in theory, your 368 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: privacy is not immediately being hacked just by taking the 369 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: pill itself for now. However, if you are a patient 370 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: going through you know, schizophrenia, mannequin mixed episodes, bipolar disorder, um, 371 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: serious depression, making those kind of decisions become a little 372 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: harder and uh it's a little more gray. M hmm. Yeah, agreed. 373 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: And for proponents this pill, this specific variant of abilify, 374 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: is just one more contribution to the growing wave of 375 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: monitoring techniques and technologies used to address one of medicine 376 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: primary woes. Which I was not fully aware of. Man 377 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: I didn't understand this either. Patients, you see, apparently have 378 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: a real devil of a time taking their medication on 379 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: a schedule and in the manner prescribed by their doctor 380 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: or a health provider. What does that mean? That means 381 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: that let's say you have poison iving, got poison iving 382 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: really bad, and they they prescribed to you a blister 383 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: pack that is essentially a steroid treatment, and you have 384 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: to take X number of pills the first day, Why 385 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: number of pills the next day, and so on and 386 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: so forth until your poison ivy is gone. You have 387 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: learned your lesson, go in peace and do not touch 388 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: strange plants. A getting yes, well yes. And this is 389 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: a like Ben said, a big issue for the healthcare 390 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: industrial complex. Let's call it um so what they call 391 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: it patient non adherents to prescribe to medication. That's like 392 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: the long way about it. And it's associated with all 393 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: kinds of things, UM, poor outcomes for you know, being 394 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: prescribed prescribed medication that's supposed to do something well, it 395 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: doesn't happen if you don't take the medication correctly. UM. 396 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: It's associated with progression of diseases because again, it's not 397 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: being treated properly, and it's got a huge estimated burden 398 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars on the healthcare industry, Like, it 399 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: costs billions of dollars because people don't take their medications correctly. 400 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: That was mind blowing to me. Didn't you have the 401 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: didn't you dig up the stat there the estimate that 402 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: between one hundred and three hundred billion dollars have been 403 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: attributed to this. Yeah, yeah, that's that's just in the 404 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: US specifically, and you're talking about a privatized health care system. 405 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: But still that represents three to ten of the total 406 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: United States healthcare costs. So what are the top reasons 407 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: that people don't take the the medicine they're prescribed. Well, 408 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: according to this one academic paper that was referencing several 409 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: different I Guess polls, um number one is forgetfulness. Number 410 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: two is side effects or perceived side effects. Uh. Number 411 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: three is high drug costs, Like it costs way too 412 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: much for me to take all these pills. I'm gonna, 413 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to separate it out a little 414 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: more than what's prescribed. And that statistic is probably going 415 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: to increase in the US. Oh absolutely. And then um 416 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: number four was just that the drug does little to 417 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: nothing to actually affect what I'm going through. Is that 418 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: is that a self report on the patient's part. These 419 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: are all self reports. Yeah, this is what patients say 420 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: about why they're not taking their medications. So maybe just 421 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: to be completely clear with everyone, maybe maybe we should 422 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: say the patient believes the drug does little. Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, 423 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: that is all. Yeah, patient belief all that stuff. The 424 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: patient believes the drug cost is too high according to 425 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: their budget. The patient believes the side effects are happening 426 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: to them, you know, according to them. You know, it 427 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: seems strange, doesn't it, Because while we know that there 428 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: are multiple cases of terrible situations happening when people are 429 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: over prescribed. You know, when someone takes a drug for 430 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: a condition a but it produces a side effect and 431 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: they have to take a drug for that side effect 432 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: and then have to take another drug for that side effect. 433 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: With this giant cocktail of drugs are taking in side effects. 434 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: And although we know that happens, in my case, I 435 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: feel like if I already went I don't want to 436 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: sound too Larry David about this, but like if I 437 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: already had to take some time off from work, and 438 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: I had to go to a doctor's office and it 439 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: might have had to pay the park. It was this 440 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: whole thing, you know. And and then they prescribe some 441 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: sort of medication for cold or whatever. I'm going to 442 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: trust them and I'm gonna probably take it unless it's 443 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: something really weird, you know. All Right, we're gonna We're 444 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: gonna do the first ever episode of Honesty Corner with 445 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: Maddie Fred And here goes. I have a bad back. 446 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: I've had it for a long time. I just have 447 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: back pain. It's it works fine, it does everything I 448 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: needed to do. I can still lift heavy stuff. But man, 449 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: does it hurt. It's the only bad thing about you. 450 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: By the way, I'll stop it. Well, Well, I've been 451 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: to several physicians and talked about this, finding ways to 452 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: help me. And I was once prescribed this drug called Soma, 453 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: which is a mule a muscle relaxer, and I was 454 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: told to take it and and then come back and see 455 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: them and see if anything happened. But I chose not 456 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: to after researching the drug um and its side effects 457 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: and what it does to you. But you know that 458 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: in this case, it was a physician trying to give 459 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: me a medication that would make me feel better for 460 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: my ailment. But I, as the patient, chose not to um. 461 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: And I wonder, I wonder, Oh gosh, I just contributed 462 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: to the several billion dollars Oh yeah, healthcare costs. That's 463 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: on you now. So it's true, though, there are there 464 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: are these honest concerns, and they come from a very 465 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: valid place, right. And it's not only is it very 466 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: difficult and ill informed to call one group of people 467 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: in this argument the bad guys quote unquote and another 468 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: group the good guys, it's also unethical because there are 469 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: situations where uh, okay, just a little bit of a 470 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: weird comparison, if you're cool with it, Matt. So, I've 471 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: always thought that your body, you're listening to this specifically you, 472 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: your body is a lot like a car. And you know, 473 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: if you own a car for a while, you are 474 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: probably and you drive it every day. You might not 475 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: be a mechanic, but you know your particular car very 476 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: very well, and you know and you know second gear 477 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: slips a little, uh, you know that you might have 478 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: to give it a little extra gas on a cold day, 479 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: and when to check the tires and that one door 480 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: doesn't quite line up. But you remember what you know 481 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: that you hit something in that parking lot or whatever. 482 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: You know your car and the thing is in many ways, 483 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: even if you are not a mechanic, even if you 484 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: are not a doctor, your body is going to be 485 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: the body you know the best, the car you know 486 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: the best, because you only get out of it once 487 00:32:54,200 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: when you die. Okay, okay, okay, you're right, and I'm 488 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: glad you said that. All right, so some people will 489 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: tell you you can sneak out of your car occasionally 490 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: right circumstances. Yes, yeah, well, I think it's I think 491 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: the concept of remote viewing or accidental astral travel as 492 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: an experience, a subjective experience. I think it's way more common, 493 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: and it's often reported. And in fact, if I recall, 494 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: we did a couple of episodes on this or aspects 495 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,239 Speaker 1: of it. Anyway, you know you're the car that you 496 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: only get out of permanently once. Yes, And with the 497 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: advancement of technology, perhaps we'll be able to just jump 498 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: cars whenever we feel like it, or get a flying car. 499 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how you want to ride this comparison? So, 500 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: before we take the body as car analogy on a 501 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: on our long road trip. We should talk about um, 502 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: the opponents here. I mean we we just did that 503 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: extended comparison to say, in defense of of people who 504 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: have decided that they are not going to take a 505 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: particular medication because you know, they have any number of 506 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: valid reasons. One might be that they have an incurable 507 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: condition that um, they would rather live with than uh 508 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: suffer from the side effects of the medication they're supposed 509 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: to be taking, right uh, And it goes back to 510 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: their perception of their own quality of life. But again 511 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: they are not They are not medical professionals often right. 512 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: But now that we've established that, we should look at 513 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: the opponents of this um, of this emerging technology, specifically 514 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: of digital medicine in general. You know, one of the 515 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: one of the biggest issues I've seen is that the 516 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: amount of money that this would save and the benefit 517 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: I guess benefit to cost ratio and all the varying 518 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: ways this will cost us as humans and you know, 519 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: as a private company selling a technology as well, it 520 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: doesn't balance out. Like they don't think this is the 521 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: solution to get people patients to take their medicine just 522 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: just by having the ability to track the medication doesn't 523 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: mean that the person is going to take it. It'll 524 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: mean it'll help the physician know if they get access 525 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: to the information that the patients not taking their medicine. 526 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: I see, because for right now it's opt in on 527 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: the part of the patient. It's often and it's you know, 528 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: and then it will turn into opt out. And then 529 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: a few years from now, um, maybe even before your 530 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: son is in his twenties, it's going. Yeah, it's going 531 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: to be strange if it doesn't have some if the 532 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: medicine doesn't have some sort of tracery, it's possible. It's 533 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: it's quite possible. At this point, opponents do argue that 534 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: this is another case of the erosion of privacy and 535 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: one of the big sticking points is um going to 536 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: be familiar to a lot of people in any medicine 537 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: related field. One of the big sticking points is the 538 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: sale of your the most personal of your personal information 539 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: to third parties. These could be advertisers, These could be 540 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:41,479 Speaker 1: insurance companies, These could be employers, These could be banks. Yeah, 541 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: that's another good call. Uh, this could be these could 542 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: be any number of people, and unless laws change, you 543 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: will never know until maybe your uh, maybe your bank 544 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: turns down alone, or maybe you suddenly get a higher 545 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: interest rate, or a number of things that would be 546 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: seemingly inexplicable or out of the blue begin to occur 547 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: to you, and then you have to sort of be 548 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: like what's his name, Guy Pearson Memento and work backwards 549 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: and just put the pieces together to figure out what happened, who, 550 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: who sold this and why? And again, unless the laws change, 551 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: you will also not be given a cut of what 552 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: they sell. And we we do want to be clear 553 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: right now, right now, the party line is that this 554 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: information is going to be somehow anonymous, right and it's 555 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: just too it's just to aggregate data set to build 556 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: better predictions you see general trends. I think it goes 557 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: a little further than that, Ben, I think it's a 558 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 1: system that we set up to where only your phone 559 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: is going to get the information unless you send it 560 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: out to anybody else. So I guess it would be 561 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: kind of like I'm trying to find an analogy for this, 562 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: but taking a picture. Every time you take one of 563 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: these pills, it's like taking a picture, and unless you 564 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: decide to send it to you know, your doctor or 565 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: your friends. Nobody is going to know about it unless 566 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: they hack your phone, I guess, is the way I'm 567 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: imagining it, or the server of the company Proteus that's 568 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: making the software. Right, That's that's the question, you know, 569 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: And that's that's the concern. Whether it's a government or 570 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: whether it's a private entity, the question remains the same. 571 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 1: Who watches the watchers, who holds the powerful accountable? And 572 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: this may seem like a little bit of alarmism. Perhaps 573 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: this may seem like a little bit of a doom 574 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: and gloom for something that is inarguably a good thing, right, 575 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: especially according to the proponents, because the you know, it 576 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: goes back to the idea that this could save lives. 577 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: And we know that continual monitoring has already existed, right 578 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: for anybody with a fit bit or some sort of 579 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: app on your phone that tells you to um quit smoking, 580 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: or to count your calories, or to make sure that 581 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 1: you take a minimum of ten thousand steps a day, 582 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: we know that this stuff already exists. This is a 583 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: step to put it inside you, and right now it's 584 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: a simple check in system. Right It's so, for instance, 585 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: right now, there is nothing to stop someone if they 586 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: for some reason said, you know what, I'm gonna take 587 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: six of these pills because woo whatever, I'm going to 588 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: share it with my doctor, and they need to know that, 589 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm taking them this way. There's nothing 590 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: physically stopping it, you know what I mean, Like, there's 591 00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:00,479 Speaker 1: not a mechanism to prevent the release maybe of the sure. Yeah, 592 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: like what if what if this sort of technology became 593 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: mandatory and not opt in and was applied to legally 594 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,919 Speaker 1: prescribed opiates, right, which are very dangerous and addictive substances. 595 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: So then it would be in a situation, especially if 596 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: you had a past history of abuse, where you would 597 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: be monitored to make sure that not only did you 598 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: take it at whatever pill your proscribed, that three PM 599 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: or something, but that you only take it then and 600 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: that you don't take two or three or whatever. And 601 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: then also to make sure that that ping happens every 602 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: number of times one per pill, right, so that they 603 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 1: know you're not selling it on the black market. And see, 604 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: what starts as a very little helpful thing does indeed 605 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: have wide reaching implications. Oh yeah, I've got two examples 606 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 1: right here. So if each one has a specific let's 607 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: say mac address. It's not address, but each one has 608 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: a specific serial number or something each pill. Then you 609 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: will know if someone sells their pills and to whom 610 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: sells those pills. If you, you know, are tracking the 611 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: ingestion of these, that could get really interesting in the future. 612 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: And another thing was overdoses. You if you could find 613 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: a way to control the release mechanism, you could prevent 614 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: overdosing of practically anything that isn't injectable. Yeah, and like 615 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: that's the silver lining I'm I'm saying totally because for 616 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: proponents of this trend, and make no mistake, it is 617 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: a trend. This is not the last you're going to 618 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: hear about this technology. In for proponents of this, that 619 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: just seems like another good thing, another tick in the 620 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: box of pros because you're saying, oh, we could stop 621 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: drug dealers, we could maybe comb at some level what 622 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: are they called pill mills. Yeah, it's tough for me 623 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: to say that because different accents I have come out. Yeah. Um, 624 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: so the of course, I just have to say at 625 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: that point, if you wanted, I'm telling people how to 626 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: mark itself, but you were just depending on what the 627 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: pills made out of I'm assuming it can't be indestructible 628 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: because you have to process it through your body. But 629 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: you just get the pills and then break them up 630 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: and then you know, leave out the sensors. Oh, I 631 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: see change the method of delivery. Just saying that there is. 632 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: But I think that's a problem that humanity a lot 633 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: of times forgets when we're trying to solve these huge 634 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: problems when you're trying to deal especially with substance abuse 635 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: of any kind. Mankind is very inventive. Sure, and we'll 636 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: find a way. I mean, that's just all right. They 637 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: you you owe it to everybody. Paul and I included 638 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: to do a gold bloom version in that one, a 639 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: gold bloom version of that one of that line. I 640 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: don't know if I have a gold bloom. I don't 641 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: think I can do it. Yeah, gold blooms like life, 642 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: Uh finds a way. There's something I think it's worth 643 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: at the cadence you do that? Could you do that one? 644 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: That was it? That was it? Swinging a miss whift 645 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: pretty hard on that. I enjoyed it a lot. That's 646 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: very kind. You're a very kind person. So there's another 647 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: thing we could say here to Matt it's the question 648 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: would be, so we're talking about changing the means of 649 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: delivery or we're talking about somehow removing the sensor. Right. 650 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: Another option, at least in this case this variant of abilify, 651 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: would be to remove the patch, because the patches the 652 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: means of transmission for the app on the phone and 653 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: later the web portal. That might work. However, this variant 654 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: of abilify is only one instance of a larger see 655 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: change your medical advancement. Right. That is probably past the 656 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: point of no return at this time. So what else 657 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: is out there? We'll tell you after a word from 658 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:21,720 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Okay, so let's say, hypothetically, Matt, you said 659 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,280 Speaker 1: you don't know me, you can't run my business. I'll 660 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 1: take the drugs I want what I want them, may Man, 661 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 1: you don't know me. I'm gonna take drugs I want 662 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: on my time, in my schedule. All right, Yeah, that's good. 663 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: I didn't want I was going soft on a Southern 664 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: accent there because I didn't want to offend you. But 665 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: I think you nailed it. You know. Just it lives 666 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: inside me and sometimes it escapes. That's how I feel 667 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 1: about some things too. Moving on, there's no need to 668 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: get get into uh those sorts of episodes. Yet, we'll 669 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: wait until next Halloween. Maybe. So you're you're telling me 670 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: you left me on a cliffhanger. Here, it's true. You 671 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: said before we went to the break that there are 672 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: other people making digital drugs. Oh yes, yes, of course. Uh. 673 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: A Florida company named detect are X is making another 674 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: sort of sensor, inguestable sensor. There's is called the I 675 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 1: D CAP and as we record this, it has already 676 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: been tested or it's being tested on a number of 677 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,240 Speaker 1: different drugs, including opioids and HIV medication. Here's all it works. 678 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,240 Speaker 1: It's made of magnesium and silver chloride, and it's encapsulated 679 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: with pills and you don't need a patch because the 680 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: entire time it's inside the body as it's being ingested, 681 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: it generates a low power radio signal that can be 682 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: picked up by a little antenna if it's near you. Yep. 683 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: And that's that's according to Harry Travis, the president of 684 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: attacked our X. They are currently seeking FDA clearance for 685 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: this application. In and of course f d A applications 686 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: are notoriously difficult unless you know the right people and uh, 687 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, have the right, political connections. Hold on a second, 688 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: I just thought of something. With these new digital pills, 689 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: does that mean we will all be pooping out tiny 690 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: little sensors every time we go to the bathroom. I mean, 691 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: that's the dream, right, Like especially I'm kidding, I'm kidding, kidding, 692 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: that's not the dream. But especially if you're taking multiple medications, 693 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: each of them having a sensor, your bowel movement is 694 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: going to be metal and and microelectronics. I mean depending, 695 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: because you're talking about a period anyway. All right, Well, 696 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: I'm just saying we're pooping a lot of metal stuff out. 697 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,319 Speaker 1: So this might sound comedic of us, and to a 698 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: degree it is. Right we're talking about pop Yeah, the 699 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: future of weird defication, that's that's something that concerns a 700 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: lot of people. Uh. And I think we earned that 701 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: joke because we talked about fecal matter transplants once years ago, 702 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: and we both kept a like a straight street a 703 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,399 Speaker 1: serious tone the whole way through. Seriously, I don't even 704 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: think we mentioned pooping back and forth forever we we 705 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 1: have now and Uh. But even even though it does 706 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: feel comedic, and to a degree it is, what we're 707 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,280 Speaker 1: seeing is that every time there's a medical advancement, there 708 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,760 Speaker 1: are inherently going to be ripple effects, many of which 709 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: not all, but many of which are going to be unpredictable, 710 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: right and some of which may be very dangerous. Now, 711 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: back when it took us as a species three hundred 712 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: years to figure out things that seem simple today, we 713 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: have had a little bit more buffer time. Collectively, we 714 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,280 Speaker 1: had a little bit more of a of a margin 715 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,280 Speaker 1: in which to experience these implications and these ripple effects 716 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: as they rolled out. But now with this increasing frequency 717 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: of medical advancements, which again barring an asteroid at gamma 718 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: ray burst, a coronal mass ejection, then unless something destroys 719 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 1: civilization as we understand it, this pace is going to 720 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: continue increasing, and there are going to be um smaller 721 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: and smaller windows of time two analyze, address, and if necessary, 722 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:47,400 Speaker 1: mitigate these ripple effects. We are right now on the 723 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: bleeding edge of not only the future of medicine, but 724 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:58,359 Speaker 1: also the future of monitoring. Absolutely, and I for one, 725 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: have played entire early too many video games to be 726 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: okay with this. Looking at you, d a sex specifically 727 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: looking at you, I I completely understand the goals set 728 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 1: out by the health care industry reduce costs and get 729 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: patients to take their medicines so we can actually help people. 730 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: Um But and I would argue that the cost is 731 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: probably the most important thing for the health care industry, 732 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: at least in the United States. UM But I'm not 733 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: sure that trackable medicine really is the answer. But and 734 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: I do agree with you, Ben, like this is a 735 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: good stepping point in you know, the way we're going 736 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,239 Speaker 1: to get to the better future, the better medicine. It's 737 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: that you can definitely see the linkage there to how 738 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: it can help. But right now, I guess you just 739 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: have to take that step in order to get there. 740 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: I think you do. Yeah, you have to. But it 741 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,560 Speaker 1: still bothers me because it feels like it's something ripped 742 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 1: out of the science fiction novel or again day a 743 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 1: Sex that I don't want to be a part of 744 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 1: what happened. That's just where humans are becoming androids and 745 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 1: replacing different parts of their body and upgrading and humanity, 746 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 1: the state of humanity is really looked into. You're not 747 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: gonna do that. You're not gonna take some cyber implants. 748 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 1: I you know, I haven't decided yet. Philosophically, I think 749 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: it's if I could just take my brain my nerro like, 750 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,320 Speaker 1: if you could map my brain out and then send 751 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: that as a piece of software into a robot. I'm 752 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,800 Speaker 1: okay with that, I think really, because I feel like 753 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,360 Speaker 1: I could live forever. But having pieces of metal integrated 754 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: into my body, I don't know. I wonder if Paul 755 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: would uh like get electric eyes or something. He's he's 756 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:45,359 Speaker 1: saying maybe he's giving a probably not shrug. Yeah, he's 757 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: pointing to his chest and saying, pacemaker. Okay. See you're 758 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: saying that pacemakers already exist. So this is to some 759 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: extent already happening. Wow, we're like miming to each other 760 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: through this is great. Well, off air, Paul did, Paul 761 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 1: did chime in, and we'd love you to chime in 762 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: on air sometime. We'll see if we can convince him 763 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: in a future episode, don't let him see behind the curtain. Well, 764 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,279 Speaker 1: let us know if you want to hear what Paul 765 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: sounds like, and if he is amenable to it, we 766 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: will we will see. We will see. But right now, 767 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: we are not fans of things being mandatory. We think 768 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 1: that people should have agency and the ability to make 769 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,439 Speaker 1: their own decisions. And it is true. Look, it is true. 770 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: This is not an inherently evil thing. It just has implications. 771 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: Not to sound too much like Dennis the implication on 772 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 1: always Sunny in Philadelphia, but yes, yes, it is true. 773 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: And I just want to list something that would be 774 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,280 Speaker 1: a very good aspect of this. Imagine if we're talking 775 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: about an elderly patient who maybe has memory problems right, 776 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 1: and then has a regiment of multiple drugs that they 777 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: must take. This could save their lives. This could easily, 778 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 1: without a doubt, save their lives and maybe increase the 779 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 1: quality of their life at the at the same time. 780 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,759 Speaker 1: But it's still doesn't address the larger question, which is 781 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,600 Speaker 1: at what price progress we have established the frequency of 782 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:23,319 Speaker 1: significant medical advances is increasing, and you know, unbalanced. Overall, 783 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: this looks to be a wonderful phenomenon. It has the 784 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 1: potential to save lives, which is what medicine is supposed 785 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: to be about, saving lives and increasing the quality of 786 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,320 Speaker 1: those lives until everybody finally hops out of their cars. 787 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 1: Diseases that once ravaged entire communities can now be fixed 788 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,839 Speaker 1: with something as simple as a once a day pill 789 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: schedule or a shot in the arm. But the problem 790 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,560 Speaker 1: is that with this stellar progress in the field of medicine, 791 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: we do not see the same amount of progress, the 792 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: same increasing advances, or the frequency of the senses in 793 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,320 Speaker 1: the halls of government, right, the people making the laws 794 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,839 Speaker 1: are still moving at the same pace. We don't see 795 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,839 Speaker 1: it in the field of bioethics or academian philosophy. There 796 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: are people who are tackling these problems conceptually right and 797 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 1: in an applied manner. But the medicine is evolving faster 798 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: than the social constructs that we have to address it 799 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: or to handle it in the best possible way. And 800 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Are you for this? 801 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,520 Speaker 1: Are you against it? Do you think, on balance this 802 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,560 Speaker 1: it's better for this to exist, or do you think 803 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,440 Speaker 1: it could be misused abused somehow, and if so, in 804 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: what way? Do you think it could benefit your life 805 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 1: in some way to be able to tract the medications 806 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,920 Speaker 1: you take? Or are you nervous about metal in your poop? 807 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I am. We didn't We didn't prove that. Though, yeah, 808 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 1: I know, maybe the sensors are made out of something else, 809 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,920 Speaker 1: something biological that breaks down. I didn't see anything about 810 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,600 Speaker 1: that in the messaging from the website, but you know, 811 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:09,600 Speaker 1: for us, so we want to hear from you. This 812 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: is typically the time where we would do shout out Corner. However, 813 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:21,000 Speaker 1: as we are missing our our third half where we're 814 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 1: going to hold because this this letter that we were 815 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,080 Speaker 1: going to read is is a very meaningful one and 816 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,360 Speaker 1: I think we may have teased in a previous episode 817 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,239 Speaker 1: solving some of the mysteries of Georgia guide Stone. So 818 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 1: we will wait until we are voltrons together. Captain planted 819 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,960 Speaker 1: it up in full force for that letter m for 820 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,879 Speaker 1: our shout out Corner. In the meantime, you can find 821 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: us on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook, you 822 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,279 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, and you can write to 823 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: us on all of those avenues with suggestions for stories, 824 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: with reactions with stuff that you think your fellow listeners 825 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 1: would be intr did in hearing it's really simple conspiracy 826 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:24,640 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com