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Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. When most people think about

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Speaker 1: going to school, will they I think of its kind

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Speaker 1: of safe haven, a harbor, if you will, from the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world. It's a place where you go,

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Speaker 1: hopefully to develop and and learn to begin to prepare

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Speaker 1: yourself for the world outside of that environment. Back on

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day two thousand eighteen, at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School,

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Speaker 1: it became a killing ground. Today we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about a place frozen in time, the scene of a

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Speaker 1: mass murder. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body

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Speaker 1: Backs Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I think, in all of my years,

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Speaker 1: all the cases that I've covered, I've never heard, at

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Speaker 1: least in my recent memory, of a crime scene that

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Speaker 1: has been locked down and literally frozen in time like

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Speaker 1: this particular scene has been. Over all of these years.

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Speaker 1: I sit there and I think, you know, what's the

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Speaker 1: purpose of this? And it's quite fascinating when you begin

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Speaker 1: to think about a crime scene that has not been

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Speaker 1: touched by anyone since those moments when it was processed

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Speaker 1: and then Essentially, locks were put on the door and

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Speaker 1: the waiting began. This scene, Joe, as you say, has

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Speaker 1: not been touched in nearly five years. And that is

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Speaker 1: a great discussion and I can't wait to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about that. But let's go back and look at

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Speaker 1: what happened and discussed the forensics there first. In eighteen,

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Speaker 1: as you said, nineteen year old Nicholas Cruse opened fire

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Speaker 1: on the students and staff of Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High

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Speaker 1: School in Parkland, Florida. Seventeen people were killed, seventeen people

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Speaker 1: were injured, and Cruse was a former student at the school.

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Speaker 1: He arrived surprisingly by uber. He was dressed in an

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Speaker 1: unassuming way when he arrived. Yet his destruction is massive.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it was bigger and surpassed the Columbine High

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Speaker 1: School massacre. Fifteen people were killed in that Colorado mass shooting.

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Speaker 1: So when Nicolas Cruise opened fire, he really set it up.

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Speaker 1: He knew what he was doing. He entered the school

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Speaker 1: dressed in a certain way, carrying a backpack, and then

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Speaker 1: he set off a fire alarm and at that point

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Speaker 1: everybody's going to head out into the hallways. He knew

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Speaker 1: what he was doing. When crews entered this school, he

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Speaker 1: was purposed to do this mass shooting, and it's it

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Speaker 1: appears to be almost as if he was chameleon like.

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Speaker 1: He blended in with the environment. It was an environment

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Speaker 1: that he was familiar with because he had attended school there.

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Speaker 1: He knew where all the points of access were. He

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Speaker 1: knew where stairwells were, for instance, And when he entered

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Speaker 1: Building twelve, they referred to it also as Building twelve hundred.

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Speaker 1: You can actually hear that in the police transmissions over

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Speaker 1: the radio. When he showed up, he showed up with

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Speaker 1: this what they referred to as a weapon bag. It's

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Speaker 1: like a gunbag. And he is first witnessed getting access

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Speaker 1: to the building by kind of a safety patrol person

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Speaker 1: that's part of the staff. And I don't know at

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Speaker 1: that moment time they really thought too much of it,

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Speaker 1: but he entered through one of the access doors that's

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Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to an internal stairwell. The first point along

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Speaker 1: this the storyline is that he met a student that

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Speaker 1: is entering the stairwell right after he does, and in

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Speaker 1: a chilling remark, he looks at this kid because it

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Speaker 1: was a kid, a teenager looks at him and says,

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Speaker 1: you better get out of here. Things are about to

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Speaker 1: getting messy. And it's at that moment time he unzips

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Speaker 1: his back and he takes out a Smith and Wesson

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Speaker 1: m n P, a R fifteen style rifle, and he

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Speaker 1: begins to assemble it. So he's got this thing disassembled.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of broken down into its component parts at

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Speaker 1: that moment time. But before he goes out the door

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Speaker 1: and begins to shoot, he takes out what could be

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Speaker 1: termed as a tactical vest, but it doesn't have like

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Speaker 1: plates in it, like ballistic plates that prevents you from

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Speaker 1: being shot or being injured as a result of being shot.

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Speaker 1: It's a vest, however, that contains multiple pockets where you

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Speaker 1: can put magazines in These magazines that feed into the weapon.

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Speaker 1: These are not contrary to what you hear people always

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Speaker 1: use the term clip. There are very few weapons in

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Speaker 1: the world that actually use clips. Famously them one grand

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Speaker 1: from World War Two that used a clip. These are

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Speaker 1: not clips. These are magazines and they hold multiple rounds.

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Speaker 1: He had a variety of these. Some had thirty round capacity,

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Speaker 1: some I think there were a couple that may have

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Speaker 1: been a forty round capacity and it's a semi automatic weapon,

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Speaker 1: so that means that every time you pull the trigger,

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Speaker 1: and you have to pull it, it's not fully automatic.

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Speaker 1: You have to engage that trigger in order for it

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Speaker 1: to fire. It automatically ejects around and then seeds a

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Speaker 1: new round into the chamber. So he assembles this thing

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Speaker 1: and then exits in in another kind of moment in

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Speaker 1: time that you see, it's this frozen segment that door

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Speaker 1: opens and he goes into what would be termed as

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Speaker 1: a tactical stance where he's kind of leaned forward into

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Speaker 1: the weapon and he is now moving down the hallway,

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Speaker 1: and it's at that point in time he begins to

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Speaker 1: fire rounds. And that's like within i don't know, probably

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Speaker 1: a minute after he has arrived through those doors. Now

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Speaker 1: this has happened very quickly. Can you imagine engaging with somebody,

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Speaker 1: talking to them, warning them, then assembling a weapon, putting

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Speaker 1: on a tactical vest, and eggs out the door, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're popping off rounds. And some

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Speaker 1: people have stated that he had pulled the fire alarm

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Speaker 1: and then started firing. That's not what happened. He started

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Speaker 1: firing and then after about forty five seconds, the fire

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Speaker 1: alarm is engaged, and people believe the investigators believed that

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Speaker 1: this was kind of like drawing the students out because

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Speaker 1: we can all identify with this, can't we, You know,

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Speaker 1: like fire drills that we went through in school. What

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Speaker 1: do they do? They tell you to line up at

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Speaker 1: the door, We're gonna march you out of the building

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna go out onto the playground or the

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Speaker 1: adjacent grounds. Said that we're clear of the building. That's actually,

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Speaker 1: I think probably what his purpose was. And when you

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Speaker 1: get people contained in this small space in the hallways,

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Speaker 1: there's not too many places you can go. Do we know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: whether or not Cruis actually pulled the fire alarm or

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Speaker 1: if the fire suppression system was triggered by the smoke

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Speaker 1: that would have come from these rounds being fired. The

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Speaker 1: authorities have stated on several occasions that they believed that

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Speaker 1: he initiated a fire alarm. It was at that point

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Speaker 1: in time that these children were drawn out into the

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Speaker 1: hallway and these rounds are continuing to be fired. Now

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Speaker 1: this creates a panic at this point in time because

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Speaker 1: you've got the fire alarm going off and many people

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Speaker 1: can identify with that sound. I mean, it just rings

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Speaker 1: in your ears. It's meant to do that because it's

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Speaker 1: trying to get your attention that there's danger, and it

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Speaker 1: was initiated and the people flood the hallway and then

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Speaker 1: the rounds are being popped off and suddenly they have

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Speaker 1: an awareness that there's gunfire and they fled back into

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Speaker 1: the classrooms. So you've got this kind of panicked environment

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Speaker 1: that's going on, and it kind of from a psychological standpoints,

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Speaker 1: kind of fascinating because you know, if you get people

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Speaker 1: in fear many times like this, they're easily controlled. I

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Speaker 1: think about gunfire. People are terrified at that moment time,

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Speaker 1: so they're gonna, you know, kind of clutch together, if

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Speaker 1: you will. And one of the first rooms that crews

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Speaker 1: fired into, no one was actually hit, but he fired

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Speaker 1: through the glass window of the door. It was at

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Speaker 1: that point in time that people knew that there was

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Speaker 1: something horrible afoot. I think the size of the building

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Speaker 1: would make for a forensic nightmare on top of the

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Speaker 1: already nightmarish scene of seeing bodies and blood and dispelled

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Speaker 1: brass and so many things. This was a three story

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Speaker 1: building which normally contained about nine students thirty classrooms, what

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Speaker 1: kind of a scene would have greeted them? What would

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Speaker 1: they have seen. Over the course of my career, I

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Speaker 1: worked several mass fatality events. And there's a way that

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Speaker 1: you go about this, and you have to purpose yourself

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Speaker 1: in it. It's not like a single investigator goes out

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Speaker 1: to the scene and directs maybe a crime scene photographer,

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Speaker 1: maybe a crime scene investigator that would collect physical evidence

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Speaker 1: at the scene and document it and pull measurements and

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Speaker 1: all that. No, that's that's not the way it happens.

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Speaker 1: You have to call in when you have all of

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Speaker 1: these elements to the crime scene, which the building itself

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Speaker 1: is going to be the primary scene, and then for

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Speaker 1: that building, you will have individual spots that have to

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Speaker 1: be focused on. And the only way you can accomplish

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Speaker 1: that is to form up into teams. And generally there

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Speaker 1: three person teams or maybe four person teams, and you'll

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Speaker 1: have a primary lead detective, you'll have a crime scene

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Speaker 1: investigator as I mentioned, and you'll have a photographer, and

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Speaker 1: then you might have what's referred to as a scribe,

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Speaker 1: which is an individual that is literally taking notes. They'll

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Speaker 1: take measurements many times along with the crime scene investigator

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Speaker 1: who is separate from the detective so that all of

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Speaker 1: this data can be compiled, because as you mentioned, it's overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: I remember on any number of cases where I've walked

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Speaker 1: in and I've got multiple deaths at a scene where

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Speaker 1: somebody has just gone in and just you know, wiped out.

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Speaker 1: I remember one case in particular where I had a

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Speaker 1: family of nine that were completely decimated and it was

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Speaker 1: a very tiny, tiny house maybe a thousand to eleven

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Speaker 1: square feet, had three bedrooms in it, and there were

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Speaker 1: dead bodies everywhere. There was blood everywhere. You have to

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Speaker 1: be very aware of your surroundings. You have to be

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Speaker 1: very familiar with the people that you're working with. It's

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Speaker 1: not a good idea to pair or group individuals that

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Speaker 1: have never worked together before at all, because everybody, like

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Speaker 1: in every area of life, have their own tendencies that

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Speaker 1: are on strengths, they're own weaknesses. So you have to

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Speaker 1: be really solid when you go into this environment so

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Speaker 1: that everything is documented. Keep in mind. One of the

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Speaker 1: way is that I like to describe crime scene investigators

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Speaker 1: and detectives. I described them as historians and people kind

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Speaker 1: of scoff at that. Sometimes I'll mention that to my students,

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Speaker 1: But you are a historian because there's no one else

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Speaker 1: in this environment that is going to go back and

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Speaker 1: specifically document these events that occurred on that date, on

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Speaker 1: that that February day, and that it will be studied

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Speaker 1: for years and years and years to come. Okay, And

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Speaker 1: you look back in the historical record and you can

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Speaker 1: see this, and there's been an actually kind of a

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Speaker 1: neat evolution with crime scene investigation over the years relative

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Speaker 1: to this. In the early years, you could see, you know,

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Speaker 1: how vague and non specific many crime scene reports are.

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Speaker 1: I remember years ago I was given the report that

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Speaker 1: was generated from bodying Clyde's deaths in North Louisiana. Actually

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Speaker 1: they were handed to me by the corner of that

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Speaker 1: particular parish at that time, and I remember reading over

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Speaker 1: that and thinking it was really neat reading the clothing

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Speaker 1: descriptions and some of the injuries that were documented, but

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Speaker 1: it lacked a lot of specificity. That's not the case today.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of specifics that go into this,

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Speaker 1: and I think that when you look back at this historically,

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Speaker 1: it's something that is fantastic that it has been documented.

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Speaker 1: But also the most important thing is that it memorializes

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Speaker 1: the dead and what occurred that day, and it's not

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Speaker 1: something that's just you know, they just kind of side

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Speaker 1: and then vanished and there's no record of it. It's

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Speaker 1: something solid that you can kind of look at scientifically

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Speaker 1: and analytically and go back and begin to understand the

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Speaker 1: measure of a good report, the measure of a great

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Speaker 1: documentation on any case like this, is that with measurements

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Speaker 1: and photographs, I want to be able to take a

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Speaker 1: case file and go back out to the scene, and

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Speaker 1: when I begin to read that and look at the environment,

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Speaker 1: I can go back in time to that day and

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Speaker 1: I can see precisely where everything is. And there have

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Speaker 1: been many cases where we've had to go out and

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Speaker 1: reconstruct crime scenes, and it's those reconstructions are completely dependent

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Speaker 1: upon what you did at that one moment. Tom as

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Speaker 1: an investigator, Well, that is certainly going to come in

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Speaker 1: handy with what we're going to talk about in just

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Speaker 1: a minute, Joe. But there's one more point that I

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Speaker 1: want to bring up about this case. Investigators tell us

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Speaker 1: and what we see from the surveillance video from the

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Speaker 1: school and other things, this attack only lasted six minutes,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and that is, from the beginning when he

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Speaker 1: walks in the school till he exits the actual shootings themselves.

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Speaker 1: We're done in less than four minutes. When you think

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Speaker 1: about the horror that befell the staff and these children,

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Speaker 1: these lives that had been lived up to this point

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Speaker 1: are completely changed and altered in almost the twinkling of

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Speaker 1: an eye. That these kids are gone or these kids

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Speaker 1: are so damaged now, not just physically but emotionally that

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Speaker 1: the course of their lives have been changed. And then

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Speaker 1: you kind of extend that out par fully to everybody

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Speaker 1: they're connected to in their circle. That's a moment time

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Speaker 1: that will last forever and ever. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: he was able to perpetrate this crime, and he, I

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Speaker 1: mean Nicholas Cruz, he was able to perpetrate this This

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Speaker 1: goes to a big issue. When you begin to kind

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Speaker 1: of put together the facts around the caation, you think

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Speaker 1: about how much thought went into this, how much time

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Speaker 1: would it take to execute this And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: any walk around stop watch, but the efficiency and tom

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Speaker 1: that short amount of time goes to efficiency. The efficiency

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Speaker 1: that he executed this with is quite striking. That it

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Speaker 1: could all occur and then not just that, but the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was able to almost literally dump everything

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Speaker 1: that he had. Remember we talked about earlier on that

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Speaker 1: that gun bag and the tack vest that he had,

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Speaker 1: and of course the weapon. You dump that and you

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Speaker 1: exit out away from where the police are congregating, and

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Speaker 1: you make your way out into the children that are

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Speaker 1: now just absolutely fleeing for their lives, and you begin

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Speaker 1: to blend in. At that moment time he's like a

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Speaker 1: fanom he he can't be seen. One of the more

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Speaker 1: striking things about this, you know, we talked about the

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Speaker 1: fire alarm and all of this. He went to I

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Speaker 1: think it was the third floor teacher's lounge that was

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Speaker 1: up there. You know, we're talking about Florida. So they've

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Speaker 1: got hurricane proof glass in these in these buildings that

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Speaker 1: is the external window. Is the way he had the

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00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 1: setup that he had for this rifle that he was using.

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Speaker 1: He actually had what's called the deployable bipod, which are

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Speaker 1: two little legs that can drop down and extent on

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Speaker 1: the front of this weapon, and it gives you stability.

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Speaker 1: You think about an old fashioned machine gun, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you see in World War two pictures where you

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Speaker 1: know it takes a team of guys to put the

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Speaker 1: thing up on a tripod. Well, this is a bipod,

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Speaker 1: and it gives you the ability to steady the weapon.

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Speaker 1: He tried to fire through the glass with his high

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Speaker 1: velocity rounds, and he would have been targeting the police officers.

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Speaker 1: These defects in the window were actually pointed toward where

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Speaker 1: the cops were egressing on the building. He was going

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Speaker 1: to mow down every everybody that was going to approach,

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Speaker 1: so he's drawing them in again. This is I think

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Speaker 1: it goes to kind of this idea that he had

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Speaker 1: form and function right, that I'm going to take as

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Speaker 1: many people as I can't. It was only the fact

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Speaker 1: that that glass was made the way it was, that

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Speaker 1: it was resistant at least to a certain point ballistically,

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Speaker 1: that saved more people's lives. It's at that point that

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Speaker 1: he fled out another stairwell and made his way into

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Speaker 1: the crowd and disappard. You have to think a little

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Speaker 1: bit about Nicholas Cruise's home environment, because you know, he's

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Speaker 1: got all of this gear at his house, He's living

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Speaker 1: with people that have essentially adopted him. He's got a

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Speaker 1: gun bag, he's got a rifle. He's got on a

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Speaker 1: soul vest and all of the magazines and ammunition that

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Speaker 1: goes along with it. Joe, you said that Nicholas Cruise

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Speaker 1: intended and planned and did in fact blend in with

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Speaker 1: the students to make his escape, which again sets up planning,

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Speaker 1: but actually how deep because we all we all know

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Speaker 1: what teenagers dress like. They wear hoodies and T shirts

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Speaker 1: and jeans. Is that what he did? One interesting little

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Speaker 1: side note about Nicholas Cruise was that he was had

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Speaker 1: been at least involved in the junior RTC program at

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Speaker 1: the high school. He was part of the rifle team

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00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: and you call the rifle team, but they used pellet

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Speaker 1: guns and they would do practice and they be in

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00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: competitions and all those sorts of things. So he actually

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00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,439
Speaker 1: had clothing that married up with the clothing that you

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00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: see the kids were that are in RTC. And it's

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Speaker 1: not a common military uniform that you might think of

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00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: like camos or anything like that. It was actually kind

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00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: of a maroon pullover that had a crest on it

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00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 1: and just pair kind of nondescript slacks and lasap shoes.

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Speaker 1: He did actually blend in very well. So after Cruise

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Speaker 1: left the building, he went to a couple of fast

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00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 1: food restaurants, was on his way to the mall, and

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Speaker 1: that's where police arrested him. They stopped him in a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood of the Wyndham Lakes neighborhood of Coral Springs, and

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Speaker 1: that's where he was arrested. Did he have with him

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Speaker 1: at the time the backpack that he took into the

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Speaker 1: school carrying the guns? Were police able to recover that? Yeah,

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00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: they were able to recover everything, you know, including the weapon.

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Speaker 1: Where was it? Did he hide it? Did he drop everything?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if I had shot a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, I wouldn't want my weapon to be recovered,

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Speaker 1: so I would have tried to hide it. No, he

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Speaker 1: just he dropped it right there because he knew, you know,

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Speaker 1: after he had attempted to fire through that window, he

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Speaker 1: knew the game was up at that point in time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he had already been spotted going into the school. People

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Speaker 1: could easily identify him. I think he was lucid enough

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Speaker 1: to understand that. And I also think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: if he has seen outside the grounds of that school

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Speaker 1: carrying that weapon and being dressed like he set up

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Speaker 1: to go and assault a position in the military, he's

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Speaker 1: going to have eyes on him, and he didn't. He

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00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: just literally dropped it right there and in its pristine state,

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00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: and pristine meaning from an investigative standpoint, from a forensic standpoint,

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00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: it tracks his movement. Okay, we know where he dropped it,

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00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: we know where he dropped the vest, and you go

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00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: back and you can analyze that and that goes back

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00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: to the movement. And they've they've spent a lot of time,

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00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: the investigators have over the years going back and kind

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00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: of tracking his his movement with every single shot that

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Speaker 1: he took. I cannot imagine, thankfully, but I cannot imagine

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Speaker 1: that as these nine odd students and teachers poured out

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Speaker 1: into the hallway, the image of seeing this guy holding

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Speaker 1: a gun coming towards you, pointing it at you. How

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00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: frightening that would have been. Yeah, it would have been terrifying.

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Speaker 1: I think for a moment, and many of us can

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Speaker 1: identify on a certain level where you're thinking, you have

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00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: an event that occurs in your life and you're sitting

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00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: and thinking, this can't really be happening. I'm having a

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00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: visual hallucination here or something. This can't be accurate, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, maybe you see a muzzle flash,

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Speaker 1: which is the little flame that shoots out of the weapon.

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Speaker 1: You hear the report because you see the flash before

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Speaker 1: you hear the report. Remember we're talking about something that

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00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: is going faster than speed of sound. And then you

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00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: hear the crack of the weapon and you look next

357
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Speaker 1: to you and somebody that maybe you started off school

358
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Speaker 1: with an elementary school, is lying dead on the floor

359
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: next to you, or is bleeding out, or is moaning

360
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: in pain because they've been shown a leg and suddenly

361
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: it becomes real, and that's when the adrenaline starts to

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00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: flow and panic sets in. It would have absolutely been horrendous.

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Speaker 1: And going back we were talking about the fire alarms

364
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: and systems and all that sort of thing, there would

365
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: have been smoke, that smoke that is actually initiated and

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: generated from that weapon being fired, and it has a

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00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 1: very distinctive odor to it for those that have never

368
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: smelt gun smoke, literally, the burning of that powder has

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00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: a very distinctive smell. So that would have filled the

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00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: environment as well. So you're being impacted by sight, by smell,

371
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Speaker 1: by sound, everything, you're being assaulted by screams, as well,

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Speaker 1: and it would have been just a complete horror show.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned to me before we started our conversation off

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Speaker 1: air something called the big Black Gun theory, and as

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Speaker 1: long as I have been doing this, it is something

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00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: that I had never heard of before. It made perfect

377
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: sense when you explained it to me, but I had

378
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: never heard of it. What is the Big Black Gun theory?

379
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: The bb G Big Black Gun theory has been something

380
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of been kicked around for years, and this

381
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: idea that when you see a platform like this weapon,

382
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: it immediately draws the eye and people understand it. They

383
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: look at it and they say, well, that's a weapon

384
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: that I've seen in movies, are seen on the news,

385
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: and it's scary, all right. The reason that comes into

386
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: play in this particular cases, you know, we've talked about

387
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: it before with with Nicholas Cruz, how he's kind of

388
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: a chameleon that he blended in in this environment and

389
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: he knew probably that if he presents with this weapon

390
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: when he initially makes his way, you know, think about

391
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: that first person that saw him, the safety monitor that's

392
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: kind of riding around in this golf cart. If that

393
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Speaker 1: person at that moment time saw him as a military says,

394
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: I'll kit it out. That means with the tax best

395
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: on and the weapon, you know, worn on his chest,

396
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: that would have raised the alarm at that moment time

397
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, oh my god, we've got an active shooter

398
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: before he ever pops off around. But in this case,

399
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: like he had awareness of that, but yet he wanted

400
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: the power of that weapon because it is powerful weapon.

401
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's used you know, bio military or platform

402
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: similar to that, not that specific weapon, but it's firing

403
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: ammunition that's very similar to what our military uses. And

404
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: he knew he was going to descend on all of

405
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: these students with and the faculty with at that moment time.

406
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: So he had to keep it hidden because with the

407
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: big black gun theory, if people see you with that,

408
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: you're going to scare the hell out of them, you know,

409
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: when they see it, And so he had to keep

410
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: it considering I don't think so. No, the purpose is

411
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: not to scare people, Jackie. Not to scare people. He

412
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: wanted to eradicate people. That's what this was all about.

413
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: And he wanted to make sure that he could insert

414
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: himself into that environment as passively as possible, go into

415
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: that stairwell where he would be concealed and get all

416
00:26:41,880 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: of this equipment together and then he'll followed after. On

417
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: all the crime scenes I've ever been on death scenes.

418
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: With a few exceptions, there's been a few that we

419
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: have kind of held for I don't know, I can

420
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: think of maybe one or two for a two week period, Okay.

421
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: Never Never, in my experience, my individual a little slice

422
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: of the pie. Have I seen been a party two

423
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: or heard of a scene like this that is this

424
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: large being frozen in time for allow these many years,

425
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: and no one and I mean no one has been

426
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: through there. It really creates an environment that I think,

427
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: in this particular case, where juror members can actually go

428
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: back and begin to experience and get a taste for

429
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: what actually occurred on that date. The idea of going

430
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: back to this scene five years later and things are,

431
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: as you said, frozen in time. But Joe, we know

432
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: the importance of forensics being unchanged. As forensic evidence is

433
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: collected now it is placed inside a bag of some kind.

434
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: Usually depending on the investigator, A lot say they like

435
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: paper because it doesn't leave any other kind of residue

436
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: at all, the same plastic because it preserves it better.

437
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: I'm not a I'm not an investigator. I don't know,

438
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: but I do know that the evidence that has collected

439
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: as is sealed. How do you seal a building? I

440
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: got to be a little clear about this because in

441
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: the immediate when the teams went into this high school

442
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: and began to work this scene, evidence was collected, you know,

443
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: like the spent casings that would have been ejecting out

444
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: of the port and striking the ground and bouncing all

445
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: over the place. If there were projectiles that could be recovered,

446
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: they were recovered. Okay, that's important for everybody to understand.

447
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: But you know, there's a there's a bigger thing at

448
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: play here. When you have, like, for instance, large pools

449
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: of blood. There's nothing you can do, okay, to collect

450
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: a large pool of blood. The blood is going to

451
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: be there, unless, of course, you have staff that comes in,

452
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, afterwards, and begins to clean this and this

453
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: does happen. That's, you know, where this whole industry is

454
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: kind of rising up crime scene clean up companies and whatnot.

455
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: But I find it compelling in this particular case that

456
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: it was at that moment time that after that initial

457
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: processing of the scene with the photographs and measurements and

458
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: the collecting of spent brass um, the authorities, and probably

459
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: at the behest of the d A, made this incre

460
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: doable decision that we're gonna lock this thing down. We're

461
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: gonna lock it down, we're gonna put up offense around

462
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: this place, we're gonna seal it up. There's only gonna

463
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: be one person or maybe a couple of people that

464
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: actually have keys to this place where folks can actually

465
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: go in and have access to it. And that's that's

466
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: quite interesting, you know, because um, there's still evidence there,

467
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: but it's not evidence in the classic sense like we

468
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: think of um where we're collecting uh, you know, first off,

469
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: we're collecting remains. We're collecting tufts of hair, which is

470
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating because one of the people that was

471
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: out of the scene actually saw a tuft of hair

472
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: that was still on the floor adjacent to a large

473
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: pool of blood. That some items are still left behind.

474
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: And I think that when you begin to think this

475
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: out and you think, well, why in the world would

476
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: they want to do? Though you read my mind, I

477
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: was just waiting for a great point to jump in

478
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: and say I don't understand why why would you want

479
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: to do this Because they had a suspect that they

480
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: caught that day, the day of the event, that had survived.

481
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: Many times when you have events that occur like this,

482
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: you'll have a shooter that will take their own life

483
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,719
Speaker 1: or will be taken out by the police. Not in

484
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: this case. Nicholas Cruz was arrested, I mean, and they

485
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: processed him, and it was so well documented the media,

486
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: and you know, we had first court appearances images from that,

487
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: we had all all manner of things that kind of

488
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: we saw where this was going. To their credit, the

489
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: prosecutors and and you know, probably the state a g

490
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: and all of the investigators that were involved, they came

491
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: to conclusion, we need to lock this thing down because

492
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: at some point in time, unless something odd happens, this

493
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: is going to go to trial. And it turned out

494
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: that it did. It did go to trial. They had

495
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: this thing sealed up to the point where you were

496
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: going to be able to witness the tryers of fact,

497
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, those individuals that are sitting in that jury box.

498
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: They were going to be able to go back and

499
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: look at this from an evidentiary standpoint, from an event standpoint,

500
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: and maybe from I don't know, maybe from a history standpoint,

501
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: maybe some of these people on the jury didn't really

502
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: have a full awareness of what had happened because they

503
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: were selected for the jury. Maybe maybe they didn't know

504
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: the extent. But when those jury members are eventually taken

505
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: back out there, I can tell you this, it hit

506
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: them full force in their chest. Okay, So I've got

507
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: to go back to my original question, how did they

508
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: do this? We're not talking something being you know, hermetically sealed.

509
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: They didn't seal every crack and and lock every door.

510
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: They locked access from the outside. Is that all they did?

511
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: They locked access from the outside. You know, obviously the

512
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: doors and everything we're sealed, But then you've got this

513
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: fencing that goes up around it. My suspicion is my

514
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: suspicion is, and I can't necessarily confirm this right now,

515
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: but is that there were probably cameras trained on this

516
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: as well to document all the comings and goings over

517
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: all these years. Anybody that might have access, and I

518
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: can tell you that probably defense would want to know

519
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: that information. They would want to be able to and this. Yeah,

520
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: what's really interesting is that one of the things we

521
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: talked about um in forensics is chain of custody. You

522
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: talked about the bagging of evidence and all these sorts

523
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: of things. When evidence is handed off, you have to

524
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: be able to account for it and track it because

525
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: if you don't, if anything enters that chain and breaks

526
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: that chain at any point in time, not in every case,

527
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: but in many cases, that evidence becomes invalidated because you

528
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: can't attest to the security of that evidence. It's one

529
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: thing to have bagged evidence that goes from the detective

530
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: to the evidence custodian at the state crime lab and

531
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: it's passed onto the scientists who tested. That's one thing.

532
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: Right now, we're talking about the security of a structure.

533
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: Just imagine that, if you will, the security of a

534
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: structure where it has to be accounted for from beginning

535
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: to end. Because this is this building. The structure actually

536
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: is a big part of the case itself, the case

537
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: in total, because you're using this environment, which in a

538
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: weird way, the whole building becomes a piece of evidence.

539
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of odd when you think about it, that

540
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: you're going to walk through a piece of evidence. Isn't

541
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: that interesting? You know, when you think about it from

542
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: the perspective of the courts. You're gonna walk through a

543
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: piece of evidence that has already essentially been processed and documented.

544
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: Now we're going to go back and enter this environment

545
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: that has been sealed for all of this period of time,

546
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to give you the timeline that we

547
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: have put forward as to how this thing went down.

548
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: And it's really hard for the defense, I think, in

549
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: this case, to deny that it happened in any other manner.

550
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: They have to go through and see marked by Tom.

551
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: And they have this thing marked by Tom of his

552
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: movements all the way from when he first got out

553
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: of that uber to the moment Tom he exited out

554
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: of the structure. I'm still trying to wrap my mind

555
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: around this a little bit so that I understand the

556
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: point of sealing the building keeping everyone out is not

557
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: necessarily to preserve whatever evidence there is, as you talked

558
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: about the blood was going to be remaining, the tuft

559
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: of hair. It's not necessarily to preserve that evidence for

560
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: future collection, because after this period of time, it's gonna

561
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: degrade and be contaminated by dust, by settling from the building,

562
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: by rodents, by insects that may have been able to

563
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: get inside the building. So the preservation is for an

564
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: entirely different reason. Yeah, it is. It tells a story.

565
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Let's go to blood specifically. Blood is not a standalone substance.

566
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: It has multiple components. One of the chief components is

567
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: that it's got you know, water in it. There is

568
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: water that is in dwelling in the components of blood.

569
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: And once that blood is outside of the body and

570
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: it's on an open surface like this, and we're talking

571
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: about it, I don't want to use it. I love Florida.

572
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word hostile necessarily. But

573
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: let's face it, environmentally, it's very very hot, right, and

574
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: we all know that he causes things to degrade significantly.

575
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: So the pools of blood that would have been left behind,

576
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: for instance, are not there necessarily to be tested. What

577
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: remained of the blood, those components are simply there as

578
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: an illustration of what it occurred heard at that environment,

579
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: and it can be implied at least as the jurors

580
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 1: and the court members of the court are walking through,

581
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: they can see these spots and how would they have looked? Well,

582
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: since the water essentially is all gone, the other substances contained,

583
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, we have serum and we have red blood

584
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: cells and whatnot. Those components now have become dried, and

585
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: many people can identify with dried blood. If you've injured

586
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: yourself at some point in time, you know that it

587
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: has and maybe you didn't clean up the blood afterwards.

588
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: You can see that it changes color. It doesn't look

589
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: like that vibrant red you know from an amating injury.

590
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: And in this particular case and what people have reported,

591
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: I urge anybody that's within the sound of my voice

592
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: to go and listen to what these reporters had to

593
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: say that walk through this environment. The blood is essentially

594
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: brown now and has begun to flake. And that's very common,

595
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: and we see this a lot at crime scenes, particularly

596
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: where there has been a homicide and the body has

597
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: been taken off from that location and disposed of in

598
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: another location. We go back and we find blood that

599
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: gives us an indication that's something violent happened. Well, there

600
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: was a lot of violence here. There was a lot

601
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: of blood, But all of that collection of blood is

602
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: going to be brown, cracked, flaked, It will be peeling up.

603
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: It almost looks like old dried paint and it's very

604
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: very fragile. There's another component to this as well. You

605
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: got bullet strikes where you have these areas, say, for instance,

606
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: in the floor, that are notched out, and you can

607
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 1: see those. You can see where the bullets actually struck

608
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: and maybe ricocheted off of the floor. You can see

609
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: a defect in a wall or a door where a

610
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: projectile actually either embedded itself or passed through it. That's

611
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: not something that you would normally see in a school

612
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: when you walk through, but it marks that moment in

613
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: time when all of this happened, and you begin to

614
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: get an appreciation I think if you're the person that's

615
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: task with judging all of this, because that's what the

616
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: jurors do, right, you're given a sense of of that

617
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: time and place when this occurred. You know that there's

618
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: been a certain level of violence here. And uh, for me,

619
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: one thing that really tugs at your heart strings in

620
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: this not that there's not so much other but this

621
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: occurred on Valentine's Day. One of the stories that is

622
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, put out there is that one

623
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: of the things that one of these reporters a pool

624
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: report I think it is with the AP actually noticed

625
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: is that he saw a teddy bear laying on the

626
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: floor and it had a heart, and you know, you

627
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: can imagine a youngster that receives some little token of

628
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: of love and affection from somebody that's interested in I'm

629
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day and now they're fleeting for their life

630
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: and suddenly that that teddy bear is not as important,

631
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: they drop it and they leave it there, and the

632
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: investigators didn't remove that. They talk about how there's m

633
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: unopened Valentine's cards lying about one of the things part

634
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: of the flowers. There were roses in a lot of

635
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: these places, and they're wilted and kind of you know,

636
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: drooping down and dried petals are falling off and the

637
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: sort of thing. It's quite amazing that they were able

638
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: to lock this down and keep it sealed up so that,

639
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: you know that the jurors could go back and revisit

640
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: the horror that took place there. Um, Joseph's got Morgan

641
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: and this is body backs