WEBVTT - Billie Eilish's Longtime Agent Tom Windish on Booking Coachella, Touring Post-COVID and Working at Wasserman 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:12.480 M H. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.120 conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.600 This is Shirley Halperin, executive editor of Music for Variety, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.720 and my guest today is Tom Wendish, the head of 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.800 business development and a r for the town agency Wasserman Music, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.840 where his clients include the artists Lord the XX and 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:37.400 Coachella headliner Billie Eilish. Like the most seasoned of booking agents, 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.440 Tom got his start while still in college Binghamton, New York, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.200 to be exact. That's where he first caught the bug 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.159 for buzzing bands that were sort of left of center. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.120 Upon graduating, he had a short lived internship at William 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.760 Marris where he would bug the agents to show him 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.120 the ropes. It's why Tom would name his own company, Bug, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.279 launched a little over thirty years ago as the rock 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.760 scene was exploding. In fact, the word indie is practically 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.319 baked into Tom's last name, which makes his career track 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:13.760 seemed practically predestined. Circumstances led him to Chicago, where he 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.600 would build a formidable roster of bands most people had 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.320 never heard of, and he would scale up to include 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.520 dozens more. That led to gaining the attention of the 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.760 budding Midwest booking agency Billions, which took Tom under its 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:32.440 wing from to two thousand four. For the next thirteen years, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.800 Tom called the Windish Agency home. He operated a lean 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.840 and mean machine that looked after hundreds of artists, but 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.640 it was his own skills as a talent scout and 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:44.760 being in the right place at the right time that 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.640 resulted in identifying the singular talent that is Billie Eilish. 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.920 As Billy and other clients got more popular competing agencies, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.360 he says, we're all trying to steal them. The solution, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.320 as Tom Windish saw it, was to align with bigger entity. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.920 He chose Paradigm in seventeen as it was absorbing several 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.400 small to mid size indies like his own. Among them 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.520 the firm's Little Big Man, a m Only Coda and 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.960 X Ray Touring, which brought to the roster such touring 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.720 giants as Ed Sharon Coplay, David Getta and Fish, among 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.480 many many more. Not long after arriving at Paradigm, Tom 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.760 Windish marveled at the health of his industry. Little did 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.040 he know what was coming in the form of COVID. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.120 The pandemic not only disrupted touring in its physical form, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.040 it turned the business of live music upside down. All 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.280 agencies were impacted, but Paradigm in particular lost its financial 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:49.120 footing and began exploring a merger or a sale. The 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.440 buyer would turn out to be Ksey Wasserman, grandson of 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.360 Lou Wasserman, who was among Hollywood's founding fathers, working for 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:01.640 over eight decades to completely reshape entertainment. The deal for 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:06.560 Paradigm closed in March, and the agency was re christened 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.600 Wasserman Music. Not surprisingly, Tom was well read on the 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.959 Wasserman dynasty, and it's proven to be an asset as 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.280 he and his new boss navigate the post COVID landscape, 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:23.520 passing on that guidance to his artists. As Tom Winters 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:25.959 prepares to fly from his home base of New York 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.959 to India, California for Coachella, where he has multiple acts 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.200 on the bill, he cautiously exhales while recounting the routing 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.600 and supply chain problems COVID has wrought. How Billie Eilish's 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.080 live career progressed memphodically despite second guessing by his peers 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.800 and what he's learned from decades spent directing artists on 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.840 the road. We pick up Tom Story in Chicago in 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:59.760 the early nineties. Welcome back to Strictly Business. Here's Tom 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.760 win Dish. So, Tom win Dish, thanks so much for 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.920 being on Strictly Business. Welcome, nice to be here. Thanks 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.520 for inviting me. M the indie rock music scene in 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:18.440 Chicago at that time, this is like ninety something was great, 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:25.120 Touch and Go Records, Thrilled Jockey, Drag City, Tupelo. Yeah, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.960 so I ended up like meeting tons of people. Everyone 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.240 was super nice, very supportive of each other. Everyone was 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.240 saying you should move here. I think maybe I was 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.640 living with my parents at the time because I was broke. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.520 I was spending all the money I made on the 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.400 booking on the phone bill, like literally, and he said, 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.400 you can live up above the club. He lived above 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.000 the club too. You can live in this other one 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.040 bedroom or something or studio for a hundred fifty bucks 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.479 a month. So I then went over to Lounge Jackson 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.000 met the people on that place, Sue Miller, and that 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.320 was from Julia and those two clubs were they hated 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.359 each other. Arrivals they were trying to book the same bands. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.440 They get really upset with you if you booked your 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.440 band at the other club. And they took me out 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:13.200 to dinner. I said, I'm thinking about moving here. Oh really, yeah, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.760 I think I might live above the empty bottle. He 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.719 said I could live there for a hundred fifty dollars 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.960 and they were like that, you can live above our 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:27.080 club for hundred bucks a months utiles included. And I 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.839 drove out in January three weeks later, like my car 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.279 full of stuff basically like a file cabinet and dot 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.400 matrix printer and an old McIntosh ch s e this 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.640 big cube computer thing. And and I lived about I mean, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.640 this was not really an apartment. It was like, I 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.280 don't know what you described it as a room at 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.040 four walls. My kitchen was in a bathroom. The rent 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.560 was great, and I lived above this club. And and 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.119 I never thought twice about like this is a dump. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.960 This is awful. I was in heaven. You must have 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.960 seen so many amazing shows I did. And the talk 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.840 about Uncle Tupelo. This is when Jeff Tweedy was playing 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.120 their solo all the time and was dating or engaged 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.640 to Sue Miller. They ended up getting married at the 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.760 club when I lived there. It was like the one 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.680 time that I had to like go away for a 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:24.520 while because they like used my room as like dressing. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.600 But I went to the wedding and everything. It was fantastic. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.599 And then you know, like probably six months after I 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.440 got to Chicago, Batch from Billions called me up and 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.560 asked if I'd be interested in joining Billions. Tell me 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.800 about him because the listeners of this podcast are definitely 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.960 not familiar with these characters, So describe him. Okay, Well, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.680 he booked Pavement and John Spencer, Blues Explosion and loads 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.279 of bands on Touch and Go and was a legend. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.640 And I mean he just had one of the best 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.840 independent booking agencies in the country and was on the 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.039 up and up. Jesus A Zero it was another band 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.800 and they were all like doing really well. I had 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.920 so much respect for him. I was afraid of him, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.159 so I kind of worshiped this guy. Maybe we worked 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:10.600 out I deally. I went and worked there and it 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.840 was great. Learned a lot. So when did you form 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.720 your own agency? Um? I think I was at Billions 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.840 six or seven years something like that. Maybe a little 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:25.480 more and I had a little roster of thirty or 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.120 so artists. Remember I put it up. There was like 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.200 one page on the website. Yeah, I have like a 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.480 link to that somewhere or something. It's pretty funny. I 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.640 think there's like a spelling error on it. One of 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.480 the bands was spelled from for a minute. Yeah, it 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.160 was a long time ago. I my office was the 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.760 second bedroom of my condo and I had an employee. 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.840 That was the main thing, Like, the main reason I 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.360 wanted to start my own thing was I didn't have 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.480 an assistant, and I was booking a lot of bands 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.840 and doing a lot of the contracts and stuff myself, 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.760 and I thought if I have an assistant, I could 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.520 book more shows. I was there for like eight for 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.440 ten years quite a while. It was great. I'm really 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.440 glad that I started things there and not New York 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.720 in l A. Why do you say that I didn't 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.200 really have like a handle at all on what was 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.600 going on in New York in l A with you know, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.920 this hot band and that hot band. But I'm happy 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.800 that I wasn't comparing myself to others and losing out 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.720 on things to others. We really carved our own Lane. 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.360 I would say probably other people in the business probably 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.560 hadn't even heard of a lot of the stuff that 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.240 we were signing. God Speed You, Black Emperor Low. We 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.160 signed Diplo early on. I was doing a lot of 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.000 electronic stuff to a lot of people on Warp records 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.800 like Apex Twin really never played, but Square Pusher, aw 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.839 Teckers group, Cold Cut, who started a label called Ninja Tune, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.640 Kid Koala, and on Tobin, Saint Germain or Sanchoman. So 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.680 like electronic live, which hardly anyone was booking that before 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.720 other than Jerry Girard and his was more mainstream live 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.160 electronic stuff in DJ's and ours was like quite underground. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.320 They would sell some of them would sell a hundred tickets, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.560 two hundred tickets, not not very big. And then when 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.600 streaming happened, it was like someone turned a floodlight onto 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.120 these things. Like before a lot of these records you 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.679 just couldn't find. There might be one store or two 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.520 stores in New York and l A and a few 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.440 other spots, and you'd go there and order it and 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.640 it would show up like a month or six weeks later. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.480 So all of a sudden, streaming and I guess illegal downloading. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.040 Even I noticed more tickets being sold. Interesting, I mean 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.400 discovery is that that is the challenge of the people 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.320 who make music, who sell music. So one thing about 0:09:54.360 --> 0:10:00.160 the Windows Agency that I remember, even before you joined Paradigm, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.400 is that you had a lot of acts. Is like 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:07.400 you scaled up even as an indie. What was the 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.200 thinking behind that and what do you look for in 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.920 an artist? I mean fundamentally, like I'm looking I'm listening 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.120 for music that gives me butterflies or goose bumps, or 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.840 that I just really enjoy that. I like things that 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.240 are a little bit different than anything I've ever heard before, 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.200 whatever element, the way the voice sounds, the way the 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.560 drum sound, the style, and if I hear something that 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.000 I like, especially back then, like you'd hear things you 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.760 like and there was like an audience. You didn't really 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.160 know how big it was, but you could book it 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.400 and put up a few shows, see how it did, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.600 and then if it went well, like then you do 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.480 some more. I remember signing in this band Jagga jazzi 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.959 Ist or Yaga Yazzis. They were on Ninja Tune. It 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:58.560 was like an eight piece in Norwegian electronic jazz band. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.040 I had never heard anything like it. They were incredible. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:02.920 I had no idea how it was going to go. 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.920 And we did like three to five tickets to night 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.280 on the first tour in like eight or ten cities, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:14.880 and the shows were incredible, and everyone said that was amazing. Um, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.080 that was a success for us to you know, selling 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.800 that number of tickets was really good. I would sign 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.360 bands or artists that I had never seen before, and 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.480 I remember back then other agents really looking down on that. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.680 I would never sign a band I haven't seen, and 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.800 I did that because I didn't have the financial means 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.720 to go sign these bands. It didn't make sense for 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.400 me to fly to Norway first to see Jagga jazz 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.000 Is to make sure they were good. Because when they 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.480 toured and they did sell eight cities and three to 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.720 five tickets, that meant we made like four thousand bucks 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.480 or something, you know, or three thousand bucks. You know, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.040 if I had flown there and stayed in a hotel, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.120 that would have been half the money. It almost always 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.600 worked out. There's very few times I can remember where 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.640 the band wasn't good, and then you flash forward to today, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.120 Like Billy had never played a show when I signed her. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.440 Lord had never played a show when I signed her, 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.680 so and I was fine with it. I just thought, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.400 they make great music, they'll figure it out. I'll do 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.000 whatever I need to help, but they'll figure it out. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.680 And if they don't, then we won't do many more shows. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.200 But they did, I'll figure it out. That's so interesting 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.680 because it's like, that's not how it used to be. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:25.760 It was like you had to pay your dues, you 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.280 had to start at the clubs and make your way up. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.360 And today it's like you can have a giant hit, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.400 your first record out be playing arenas in no time 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:40.560 with zero touring experience. I think streaming had a lot 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.880 to do with everything changing, at least for the kind 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.520 of people I worked with, because I mean I saw 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.800 I remember with Hot Chip we did one tour, it 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.000 went well. Streaming kind of took off that. Back then, 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:54.920 it was like Pirate Bay or whatever it was. You 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:59.800 could practically google things and find places to like download 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.560 this stuff, and everybody like certain people are just doing 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.840 They had computers running twenty four hours a day just 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.400 downloading stuff. It was like it was like getting the 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.200 keys to fdo Schwartz or something. You have whatever you want. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.760 But then the next tour they did like there were 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.360 a lot more people there. I'd say, like the chunk 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.800 of their fans were doing that stuff right, probably because 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.880 they couldn't afford to buy the music. That was the 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.200 whole thing. Afford and it's like hard to get your 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.079 hands on it, hard hard to find, of course. Okay, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:39.280 so tell me about when disjoined Paradigms in something like that. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.120 What was the thinking behind that. At the time, you 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.320 had a staff of more than eighty in six cities 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.600 and over a thousand clients. Clearly things were working. So 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.040 what did Paradigm offer? I guess what I felt was 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.959 that the more successful we became, and the more successful 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.400 our artists became m and at the time that meant 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:10.000 Lord the x ax diplo Odessa Flu, the more intense 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.320 the competition became. It was great when we were under 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.600 the radar and no one had heard of the bands 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.000 in terms of the competition and the stress. And but 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.840 like then, these artists got more popular and the agencies 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.280 were all trying to steal them, and they would say no, 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.360 but then the agency would go back again a month 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.760 or two or three later, and that went on for years, 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.280 so that it felt like towards the end like these 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.360 people were offering their relative enough they would change I'll 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.040 give you my my my house or something, and I 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.080 was like, jeez, what else is going to happen? And 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.680 I was always thinking what this started almost day one 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.920 when I started Windance Agency. What can we do to 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.520 provide a better service to the artist. I know it 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.240 sounds like everyone does that, but I was the first 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.960 agency to start password protected webs site where you could 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.640 see how much you were being paid and if we 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.840 had the deposit and the signed contract and all those things. 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:11.040 Very sounds incredibly simple. Now. We had a tour marketing department. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.400 I think before anybody, we had a branding department. These 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.800 were all things like I was either thinking, what's gonna 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.000 be helpful for the artists, what are they gonna appreciate, 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.840 what's gonna help sell more tickets? Or what is everybody 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.000 else saying they do? And we need to compete with that? 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.320 We need to like have an answer. We had people 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.800 that would like help with acting or would meet with 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.640 our artists and basically asked like, what are your dreams 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.040 outside of music and then go and try and implement 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.600 them and they did very interesting things, and we did 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.960 that for years. I basically got to a point where 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.800 I thought it's never gonna be enough. I could have 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.720 twenty people doing these things instead of six and still 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:55.200 wouldn't be enough because it's all about perception, not reality. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.600 So I need to join one. And the perception is 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.560 like bigger, bigger, better, we'll get more from the artist. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.480 So I did it. You know, I went with ones 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.200 that were nice people, and they had all been indies too. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.280 They were really cut from the same cloth. Paradigms or 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:18.480 Party Diamonds Company, Little big Man Am Only Monterey, Dakota 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.880 may have come after, I can't remember. And when I 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.280 would speak with these people, the former owners of these agencies, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.520 they sort of had the same experience as me in 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.360 different ways. They all started these things like in the 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.480 second bedroom or in a little garage or whatever, and 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.800 it group And I don't know, there's something about that 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.880 DNA that makes you feel comfortable, right, Were you being 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:47.240 courted by the other agencies? Yeah? What was that like? 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.680 I mean, it's nice to be wanted. Did you feel 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.880 like the way that they sort of sell the artists. 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.920 I'm like, we'll do this for you and this will happen. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.680 We have these whatever tools. I mean, it's interesting because 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.400 back then, like I didn't really know they say that, Yeah, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:05.960 they say they have all these things, they say they 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.440 do all these things. I wasn't really sure like which 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.040 one is telling the truth or which one is the 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.000 most true? Right, Well, so that's really going to do it. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.880 This is what the artists go through, right when CIA 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.800 and W M E and U t A are all yeah, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.280 and when they have to choose a label. Yeah, that's true, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.199 you know, um, and I guess ultimately it kind of 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.040 comes down to your gut again where you feel most comfortable, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.320 which was obviously paradigm for you. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.560 a little bit about festivals, because we're coming out of 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.439 this very dark couple of years which really upended the 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:46.280 touring industry. But we're days away from Coachella at this point. 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.040 Lollapalooza went off without a hitch. What's your view of 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.280 the return of festivals, Amid Covid. I mean, I went 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.320 to the Lalla Closa. I figured it was great. I 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.359 went to us the city limits. It felt like every 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.359 other obsously limits. I went to it was great. They 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.920 waited in lines for food. I saw a ton of bands. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.520 It was really good. How do I feel about it? 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.840 I mean, I'm really happy it's back. What was the 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.119 pandemic like for you? As a booking person? It was 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.800 brutal and horrible in a lot of ways. You like 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.600 to see everything you've built and what you do. I 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.920 would say booking and live shows, that's the thing that 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.560 that makes me tick, that's the thing that excites me. 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.520 And to not have that sort of it swept out 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.960 from under you and and sometimes thinking like this is 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.840 ever going to come back, just not really knowing it 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.560 really sucks. Yeah, and probably something you've never experienced. Hell no, 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.280 of course not. Yeah. It was I mean sometimes very awful, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.360 very stressful. And then also it's a responsibility to guide 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.439 artists make them feel like it's going to be okay. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.479 It was really brutal a lot of ways. There were 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.639 a lot of silver linings, but definitely being able to 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.720 spend lots of extra time with my son when he 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.199 was one and two years old, it was amazing and 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.560 I feel just so grateful that I got to do 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.440 that because normally I would travel every week or two 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.640 and go out to a show every other night and 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.760 that's what I do. Now you're back. I'm back. Yeah. 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.000 I was talking to someone today. It was asking me, like, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.120 do you think that, like we'll do less small trips 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.119 and not go to as many shows. I said, I'd 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.240 like to think that would be the case. But I'm 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.320 going to shows every night now and I'm on a 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.920 plane every week for the next eight weeks. I feel 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.680 like it will go back to that, at least for 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.439 a while. I mean, yeah, maybe I'll say no to 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.920 some things, but there's an awful lot going on, and 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.719 I'm also happy and grateful that it's going on. We 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:53.800 need to take a quick break, but we'll be back 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:59.680 with more from Tom Wendish, and we're back with Wasserman 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.520 Muse six Tom Wendish. I mean, Billie Eilish's tour was 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.920 one of those tours that that was impacted. It seemed 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.320 like she was able to pivot, do a lot of 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:14.760 other projects, be available for awards shows and things like that. 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.520 But what were those conversations like about having the postpone 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.640 a tour for a year or maybe two years. Who knows, 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:23.840 she might have a new album by then. You could 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:28.040 be a completely different cycle. They were repetitive because we 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:32.159 did it several times. Yeah, and it wasn't just with hers, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.879 with everybody. You'd get to the point where you're moving 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.800 moving the thing for like the third or fourth time, 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.639 and it feels like you're beating a dead horse or something, 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.119 and it's I mean, it's not great. I've had this 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.760 feeling the other night. I've been feeling really happy to 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.280 be out at shows. There have been moments where I've 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:56.440 been overwhelmed with emotion or goose bumps or tears. I mean, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.000 it's actually like quite a beautiful thing to be even 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.080 it doesn't matter how big the artist is, whether they're 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.240 playing the twenty people or a hundred, to be there 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.679 and just to be so happy that like this amazing 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.240 musical moments happening, you're in a room with all these people, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.600 you realize, like this is why I do it, and 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.879 this thing that the reason I do it, being in 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.520 the room and experiencing these things and helping to bring 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.280 this joy to these fans and musicians. Like not having 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.920 that and doing it for two years, like it was dark, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.920 Like it kind of sucks talking about shows that are 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:39.639 sort of fictional might happen. And I'm really glad that 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.640 the things I'm talking about now are really happening. It's 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.480 the same for the artists and for the fans and 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.720 for the promoters. It's amazing. Like sometimes I go backstage 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.800 after the show and we're hugging each other and we're 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.840 all like so happy that they have that feeling too, 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:58.560 and when they're on stage they get it. It's not 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.320 just me. It comes to like rescheduling a tour, like 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.320 there are many challenges that pop up with that, the 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.639 availability of venues and what kind of things were you 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.600 up against when you were moving a major tour two three, 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.439 four times, other people that want the buildings to and 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.360 as you push things back further and further into the future, 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.280 you just run into more and more people that are planning. 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.680 Everyone's planning a tour, and it feels like you're kind 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.520 of squishing into a time when just everybody wants the 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.000 same real estate and it's hard to get. And yeah, 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.760 I mean we were talking about it before. How when 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.840 I first started doing this, artist booked themselves so they 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:42.560 kind of understood the routing process and stuff. But most 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:44.880 are almost all artists these days, have not done that 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.360 at least like at the level that I'm dealing with. 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:50.119 I was talking too artists the other day. It was 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.360 like they couldn't understand why they had to drive from 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.879 Washington to Boston and it was like nine and a 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.959 half hours or something, and it's like, I know, that 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.240 sucks it as of bales, And normally, I'm sort of 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.720 known for booking things very far in advance, and part 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.400 of the reason for that is to just get perfect rating. 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.800