Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Monday, August third, and the
Speaker 1: triple murder trial of Lindsey Clancy will continue today and
Speaker 1: they're expected this week, in the second week of the trial,
Speaker 1: to focus on whether or not she was insane at
Speaker 1: the time of the killings. And with that, welcome to
Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. Roped a very important
Speaker 1: week after what was a very emotional and difficult week
Speaker 1: last week that ended on Friday. We didn't get a
Speaker 1: chance to talk about with a field trip of sorts.
Speaker 2: Yes there was. That's how the day began. Actually, so
Speaker 2: the jurors and the lawyers walked through the home where
Speaker 2: Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children. But it began actually
Speaker 2: with the route that Patrick Clancy took that night, they claim,
Speaker 2: prosecutors say, and this is not really disputed, that Lindsay
Speaker 2: sent her husband on an errand to go get some
Speaker 2: takeout food, to go to the pharmacy to pick up
Speaker 2: some medicaid for Clara, and so jurors were taken on
Speaker 2: that route which ended at the home there.
Speaker 1: It's something robes as much as we've been saying about
Speaker 1: this case, to think that they that they were in
Speaker 1: his they essentially went his route and hers through the house. Robes.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how these folks felt. We've been hearing
Speaker 1: some very difficult testimony, and this is one that, yes
Speaker 1: there are cameras in the courtroom, we have been able
Speaker 1: to hear this, see this, see the murder weapons, Robes.
Speaker 1: This has been very difficult. Now they are physically in
Speaker 1: that home that they say this does, and both sides
Speaker 1: agreed and wanted the jury to have this, But Robes,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what that felt like on Friday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is a hell of a first
Speaker 2: week for an already difficult subject matter, the death's the
Speaker 2: strangulation of three children at the hands of their own mother.
Speaker 2: And to hear and see the nine one one call,
Speaker 2: to see the murder weapons, those exercise bands, and then
Speaker 2: to actually go to the crime scene itself. That is
Speaker 2: something that very few people will ever experience in their life,
Speaker 2: nor would they want to. But this jury, I didn't
Speaker 2: realize the makeup twelve women, six men, So there are alternates.
Speaker 2: No one knows who the alternates are, I believe until
Speaker 2: the end. So there are eighteen jurors that went on
Speaker 2: this field trip alongside the attorneys now.
Speaker 1: Lindsey Kline, how that reads for her, how that helps
Speaker 1: hurts in a case like that.
Speaker 2: I feel like it would help. I feel like it
Speaker 2: would help because a woman, especially a woman who's given birth,
Speaker 2: especially a woman who might have experienced postpartum, might be
Speaker 2: a little bit more sympathetic I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, or understanding of how difficult it can get. Yes,
Speaker 1: just something a man will never comprehend.
Speaker 2: Correct, And I think a woman would understand a mother's love.
Speaker 2: And yes, there are always outliers, There are evil people
Speaker 2: in this world. We understand that. But I do think
Speaker 2: seeing this mother so far, what we've been seen in
Speaker 2: this first week, being presented with just the care she took,
Speaker 2: the consideration she took for her kids, the pictures she
Speaker 2: had with the kids, I think that resonates with a
Speaker 2: lot of the women. So yeah, I hadn't heard the
Speaker 2: makeup of the jury until now. That's significantly So yeah,
Speaker 2: twelve women, six men.
Speaker 1: I do wonder what is that final breakdown going to be? Right?
Speaker 2: Who the alternates are? We don't know right now and
Speaker 2: neither do the jurors. But Lindsay Clancy notably did not
Speaker 2: go on this field trip. We wondered if she would
Speaker 2: or not, and it was noted she has not been
Speaker 2: at that home since the night or the day of
Speaker 2: those killings.
Speaker 1: And the day of those killings. Of reminder, folks, this
Speaker 1: was in January of twenty twenty three when Lindsay Clancy
Speaker 1: strangled her three kids, five year old, three year old
Speaker 1: and eight month old. Strangled the three kids, then she
Speaker 1: slashed her own neck and jumped out a window in
Speaker 1: an attempt to kill herself. She is now claiming not guilty,
Speaker 1: not guilty by reason of insanity. And again, Robes, as
Speaker 1: we've gone back and forth, the first witness of the
Speaker 1: case was her now ex husband, who was supportive of
Speaker 1: her in that He immediately came out and said publicly
Speaker 1: put out a statement after the kids were killed, Robes saying,
Speaker 1: you won't need to hear everything and have mercy on her.
Speaker 1: She's hurting and I forgive her. He saw her spiral
Speaker 1: into whatever she wherever she ended. This psychosis she says
Speaker 1: she was in. It is as a layperson, Robes, it's
Speaker 1: hard to understand. But it's also hard to understand why
Speaker 1: the prosecution gives her no room, no possibility that she
Speaker 1: was ill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a little surprising. And look, we may
Speaker 2: understand it better as they continue to present their case,
Speaker 2: but this field trip was notable and it is rare.
Speaker 2: I mean, this does happen, but we can kind of
Speaker 2: name on one hand, maybe the amount of times at
Speaker 2: least from a high profile standpoint, this has actually occurred.
Speaker 2: Where you have the jury go on a field trip,
Speaker 2: so to speak, retracing the rout that Patrick Clancy took
Speaker 2: that night. They started out driving past the CBS, which
Speaker 2: is about a mile from the home where Patrick got
Speaker 2: pedilex and skittles. I don't know why, just he picked
Speaker 2: up some candy for the kids, Like, I don't know why.
Speaker 2: That part of it just struck a nerve for me.
Speaker 1: I don't know who. I don't know if you remember
Speaker 1: if that was just a matter of just a matter
Speaker 1: of fact in adding that detail, or was it added
Speaker 1: for effect, Like you're sitting here just recalling it now
Speaker 1: and clutching your chests, right, it's just you hear that,
Speaker 1: and it it messes with you.
Speaker 2: It does because he was so unsuspecting, he had no idea.
Speaker 2: He was picking up medicine for his child and got
Speaker 2: a little candy to go along with it. We've all
Speaker 2: been there, we've all done that, we all remember when
Speaker 2: we had young kids, and just it just it brings
Speaker 2: it home. And then they went by the three V restaurant,
Speaker 2: which is about five and a half miles away from
Speaker 2: the family home, where he picked up and they made
Speaker 2: they got it very specific, a Mediterranean bull and some risotto.
Speaker 2: Again thought he was coming home to have dinner with
Speaker 2: his family. And then they yes, went to the home
Speaker 2: exactly as Patrick did in Duxbury, Massachusetts. And I thought
Speaker 2: this was interesting. The new owners, we've talked a lot
Speaker 2: about this. They've renovated some of the home, but someone
Speaker 2: did buy that home. They actually tried to block this
Speaker 2: from happening. They actually sought an injunction to block the
Speaker 2: jury from coming to their home and to their property
Speaker 2: for purposes of this trial. But the judge overruled it
Speaker 2: and said, nope, this is important to the case.
Speaker 1: Wondery. Yeah, that's what rights do you have? Apparently none
Speaker 1: to say stay off my property.
Speaker 2: Because they did say that and it didn't work.
Speaker 1: I don't want cameras here. I don't want this mess here.
Speaker 1: I don't want a reminder of this here. There might
Speaker 1: be somebody that home. Maybe they're kids. They don't even
Speaker 1: realize what had happened. Who knows what? Man, that is
Speaker 1: something that you have no choice.
Speaker 2: I thought that was really interesting because we didn't know,
Speaker 2: we haven't heard any That was the first I heard that. Yes,
Speaker 2: they did not want this to happen. It occurred anyway.
Speaker 2: The media were they were ordered to stay one hundred
Speaker 2: yards away. And look you can see there's some images
Speaker 2: of them trying to just show the buses lining up,
Speaker 2: but they could not obviously show any jurors, so very
Speaker 2: limited in what they were able to show or see.
Speaker 2: But we do know that the jurors were escorted in
Speaker 2: groups of six, so six at a time, I guess
Speaker 2: three different groups went in and they went to the basement. Oh,
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what that was like. And then they
Speaker 2: went into the yard where Lindsay was found by Patrick
Speaker 2: after she jumped from that second story window. And it
Speaker 2: was about a forty minute visit. That's what they said.
Speaker 1: They say, these things help, right, we've been hearing about it,
Speaker 1: hearing about it just like they have now. They got
Speaker 1: to see how many steps she took up and down
Speaker 1: the stairs of the basement, how high was that window
Speaker 1: she jumped out of. Right, you can say it all
Speaker 1: day long, and feet and everything else, but ropes, it
Speaker 1: makes a difference. And they're trying to convince this jury,
Speaker 1: the prosecution is that this was this was not a
Speaker 1: real suicide attempt. If you go in there and they
Speaker 1: said blood was all over the floor office because they's
Speaker 1: cleaned up now, but they're getting to see the stuff
Speaker 1: in this room and getting to see would you say,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, a jump out that window and you
Speaker 1: said she was just faking it like that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff matters.
Speaker 2: It does, And so imagine just the emotion behind seeing
Speaker 2: all of that. After hearing the testimony, you've done and
Speaker 2: then you got to go back to court and hear
Speaker 2: more testimony. So yeah, just before noon, testimony resumed and
Speaker 2: the prosecution called five witnesses. They called two police officers,
Speaker 2: two er doctors, and a hospital lab technician. And look,
Speaker 2: some of this stuff was hard to hear, but the
Speaker 2: police officers were talking about what they saw in terms
Speaker 2: of Lindsay Clancy's wounds and her condition. One of them
Speaker 2: testified that the medical staff was not actively treating her wounds,
Speaker 2: which the prosecutions trying to claim were superficial, But the
Speaker 2: defense had him confirmed that he did see those blood
Speaker 2: stains inside and outside the home. And then I thought
Speaker 2: this was interesting. The second police officer did have to
Speaker 2: admit from the defense that there was a code blue
Speaker 2: her first night. He was with her the whole evening,
Speaker 2: which means that, yes, they thought she was dying.
Speaker 1: I mean, that sounds like she had serious injuries. What
Speaker 1: wasn't the prosecution at some point trying to call them superficial?
Speaker 2: Correct? And then the er doctor who treated little Dawson
Speaker 2: at three just described the broken blood vessels on his face,
Speaker 2: that there was no pulse. They worked on him for
Speaker 2: forty minutes, but there was no chance. And then the
Speaker 2: one who treated little eight month old Callen, and this
Speaker 2: is where Lindsay reportedly began to sob in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: But they said that he did regain a heartbeat ten
Speaker 2: minutes after he arrived at the hospital, but there was
Speaker 2: no brain function.
Speaker 1: You remember baby, the kid on the side here. How
Speaker 1: long did they work on that kid in Arizona that
Speaker 1: they found in the morgue?
Speaker 2: Not very sounded like six minutes.
Speaker 1: Or so right in the hospital and the doctor just
Speaker 1: called it. And then they find the kid and the morgue.
Speaker 1: How many hours laid.
Speaker 2: Five hours, five hours later.
Speaker 1: I think about that and that that is what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. There's a kid, there's in front of you
Speaker 1: that's dead by all measures. They worked for forty minutes
Speaker 1: to do anything they could.
Speaker 2: And yes, that's what you imagine, that's what Yes, that's
Speaker 2: what we've always been I guess that's what I've always
Speaker 2: heard happen. So that was why that one case was
Speaker 2: just significant. And yeah, and then this hospital lab supervisor
Speaker 2: who was the final witness of the day on Friday,
Speaker 2: gave some background about how her lab worked, but she
Speaker 2: preserved Lindsay's blood and urine samples that were taken after
Speaker 2: the killings. And I'm guessing we'll get evidence of what
Speaker 2: that showed in terms that they were just establishing chain
Speaker 2: of command and how it was all done properly. So
Speaker 2: that was significant. That wrapped up Friday. When we come back,
Speaker 2: we're going to tell you when testimony resumes today on
Speaker 2: Monday Day, what we are expecting as week two of
Speaker 2: the Killer Mom trial gets underway. Welcome back everyone to
Speaker 2: Amy and TJ. We are talking about week two now
Speaker 2: of the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial. The mom, the
Speaker 2: thirty five year old Massachusetts mom who is admitted to
Speaker 2: strangling and killing her three young children, but her defense
Speaker 2: is that she is not criminally responsible because she was
Speaker 2: suffering from postpartum psychosis. And look, as we have gone
Speaker 2: over what the first week's testimony was, it was gruesome,
Speaker 2: it was emotional, it was chilling. We are expecting now
Speaker 2: the prosecution to begin presenting evidence that Lindsey Clancy was sane.
Speaker 2: On January twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait to hear this expert. But I
Speaker 1: can't wait. I would love to hear them. The battle
Speaker 1: of the experts. Now, how do you go about saying Nope,
Speaker 1: she was faking it, or nope, she doesn't she didn't
Speaker 1: rise to a certain threshold. This is going to be fascinating.
Speaker 1: How do you prove somebody saying or not when you
Speaker 1: got two people with doctor in front of their names
Speaker 1: saying two doily different things.
Speaker 2: It's true. And so yes, we're expecting psychiatric experts to
Speaker 2: testify for the prosecution in the days ahead. And I
Speaker 2: say experts because it'll be certainly more than one. But
Speaker 2: I'm also curious, like with the reports of just the
Speaker 2: jurors watching Lindsey Clancy being wheeled into the courtroom. She
Speaker 2: cannot walk based on the injury she suffered after she
Speaker 2: threw herself outside of that second story window.
Speaker 1: Injury she's paralyzed for.
Speaker 2: She's paralyzed for the rest of her life. I wonder
Speaker 2: the sympathy just seeing her sob when they describe her children,
Speaker 2: seeing her sob during that nine to one one call,
Speaker 2: seeing her sob throughout this I just I wonder what
Speaker 2: that is saying to how jurors are experiencing that and
Speaker 2: how that's going to shape what their verdict ultimately is.
Speaker 1: Robes, there is not a moment we have seen in
Speaker 1: this courtroom, and we've watched the majority of testimony where
Speaker 1: she came off like a monster. Nothing they describe about her,
Speaker 1: nothing that she has shown in the courtroom. Nothing. There
Speaker 1: was one one something they were going after the prosecution
Speaker 1: saying she was a control freak. Robes.
Speaker 2: That's though, that's that's what mom isn't. I'll be honest,
Speaker 2: I'm a control freak. I think every woman understands that.
Speaker 1: You can't see a monster. You do not see anything
Speaker 1: in her behavior in her past in her present robes
Speaker 1: that suggests that there were times during that was that
Speaker 1: Cora the woman out in the with the book.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Cory Richards, Cora Richards robes.
Speaker 1: She's still sitting there, hair pulled back, looks like a young,
Speaker 1: put together mom Rose. They described and things about her,
Speaker 1: and we saw some stuff in the courtroom from her.
Speaker 3: They go, whoa pretty monstrous. Yeah, there's nothing of that here, baby,
Speaker 3: No there is. So how in the world do you
Speaker 3: convince this jury that's sitting there crying themselves elves watching
Speaker 3: this woman shape cry paralyzed, and you're going to have
Speaker 3: to go and say, yep, she is guilty of first
Speaker 3: degree murder.
Speaker 1: That's a babe. That's so far tough one.
Speaker 2: And look, this is and people have said that Massachusetts
Speaker 2: in particular, just the way things work in that state,
Speaker 2: this is going to be This is a heavy lift
Speaker 2: for the prosecution because, in addition to proving that Lindsay
Speaker 2: Clancy was sane at the time of the murders, the
Speaker 2: state also has to establish one of the two theories
Speaker 2: that she either premeditated these murders in insane fashion, or
Speaker 2: that she committed extreme atrocity or cruelty in how she
Speaker 2: murdered them. Look, that might not be as difficult to prove.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think murdering a child just is
Speaker 2: in like just is just cruel period. I don't know
Speaker 2: how you separate a non cruel murder of a child.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what.
Speaker 1: Would even call it. What's the standard for us? Say
Speaker 1: it again?
Speaker 2: You have to they have to prove that she committed
Speaker 2: a extreme atrocity or cruelty. So extreme cruelty, extreme atrocity,
Speaker 2: strangling a child to death.
Speaker 1: They should all qualify. However, the child should qual it.
Speaker 1: So but it must mean something else if they had
Speaker 1: to put it in there.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and so they have I think. Look, the
Speaker 2: main issue is to prove that she was saying. That
Speaker 2: is going to be That is what is going to
Speaker 2: be fascinating about the days and weeks to come here,
Speaker 2: because that is going to be the prosecution's next effort. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they've established the crime, they've established just the horror of
Speaker 2: the crime. But now this becomes the real battle back
Speaker 2: and forth between the prosecution and the defense, and it
Speaker 2: should begin starting later today, Yes, nine am this morning,
Speaker 2: so Eastern time. We will continue to watch this trial,
Speaker 2: bring you all the updates from it. We always appreciate
Speaker 2: you listening to us. Everyone. I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ. Holmes.
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon.