WEBVTT - Killer Mom Trial: Lindsay Clancy Nearly Died, Baby Callan Momentarily Regained Heartbeat

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, folks. It is Monday, August third, and the

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<v Speaker 1>triple murder trial of Lindsey Clancy will continue today and

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<v Speaker 1>they're expected this week, in the second week of the trial,

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<v Speaker 1>to focus on whether or not she was insane at

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<v Speaker 1>the time of the killings. And with that, welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>this episode of Amy and TJ. Roped a very important

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<v Speaker 1>week after what was a very emotional and difficult week

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<v Speaker 1>last week that ended on Friday. We didn't get a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to talk about with a field trip of sorts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes there was. That's how the day began. Actually, so

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<v Speaker 2>the jurors and the lawyers walked through the home where

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<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children. But it began actually

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<v Speaker 2>with the route that Patrick Clancy took that night, they claim,

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<v Speaker 2>prosecutors say, and this is not really disputed, that Lindsay

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<v Speaker 2>sent her husband on an errand to go get some

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<v Speaker 2>takeout food, to go to the pharmacy to pick up

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<v Speaker 2>some medicaid for Clara, and so jurors were taken on

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<v Speaker 2>that route which ended at the home there.

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<v Speaker 1>It's something robes as much as we've been saying about

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<v Speaker 1>this case, to think that they that they were in

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<v Speaker 1>his they essentially went his route and hers through the house. Robes.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine how these folks felt. We've been hearing

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<v Speaker 1>some very difficult testimony, and this is one that, yes

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<v Speaker 1>there are cameras in the courtroom, we have been able

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<v Speaker 1>to hear this, see this, see the murder weapons, Robes.

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<v Speaker 1>This has been very difficult. Now they are physically in

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<v Speaker 1>that home that they say this does, and both sides

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<v Speaker 1>agreed and wanted the jury to have this, But Robes,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine what that felt like on Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is this is a hell of a first

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<v Speaker 2>week for an already difficult subject matter, the death's the

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<v Speaker 2>strangulation of three children at the hands of their own mother.

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<v Speaker 2>And to hear and see the nine one one call,

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<v Speaker 2>to see the murder weapons, those exercise bands, and then

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<v Speaker 2>to actually go to the crime scene itself. That is

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<v Speaker 2>something that very few people will ever experience in their life,

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<v Speaker 2>nor would they want to. But this jury, I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>realize the makeup twelve women, six men, So there are alternates.

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<v Speaker 2>No one knows who the alternates are, I believe until

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<v Speaker 2>the end. So there are eighteen jurors that went on

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<v Speaker 2>this field trip alongside the attorneys now.

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<v Speaker 1>Lindsey Kline, how that reads for her, how that helps

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<v Speaker 1>hurts in a case like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like it would help. I feel like it

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<v Speaker 2>would help because a woman, especially a woman who's given birth,

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<v Speaker 2>especially a woman who might have experienced postpartum, might be

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit more sympathetic I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, or understanding of how difficult it can get. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>just something a man will never comprehend.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, And I think a woman would understand a mother's love.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes, there are always outliers, There are evil people

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<v Speaker 2>in this world. We understand that. But I do think

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<v Speaker 2>seeing this mother so far, what we've been seen in

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<v Speaker 2>this first week, being presented with just the care she took,

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<v Speaker 2>the consideration she took for her kids, the pictures she

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<v Speaker 2>had with the kids, I think that resonates with a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the women. So yeah, I hadn't heard the

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<v Speaker 2>makeup of the jury until now. That's significantly So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>twelve women, six men.

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<v Speaker 1>I do wonder what is that final breakdown going to be? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Who the alternates are? We don't know right now and

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<v Speaker 2>neither do the jurors. But Lindsay Clancy notably did not

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<v Speaker 2>go on this field trip. We wondered if she would

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<v Speaker 2>or not, and it was noted she has not been

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<v Speaker 2>at that home since the night or the day of

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<v Speaker 2>those killings.

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<v Speaker 1>And the day of those killings. Of reminder, folks, this

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<v Speaker 1>was in January of twenty twenty three when Lindsay Clancy

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<v Speaker 1>strangled her three kids, five year old, three year old

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<v Speaker 1>and eight month old. Strangled the three kids, then she

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<v Speaker 1>slashed her own neck and jumped out a window in

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<v Speaker 1>an attempt to kill herself. She is now claiming not guilty,

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<v Speaker 1>not guilty by reason of insanity. And again, Robes, as

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<v Speaker 1>we've gone back and forth, the first witness of the

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<v Speaker 1>case was her now ex husband, who was supportive of

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<v Speaker 1>her in that He immediately came out and said publicly

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<v Speaker 1>put out a statement after the kids were killed, Robes saying,

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<v Speaker 1>you won't need to hear everything and have mercy on her.

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<v Speaker 1>She's hurting and I forgive her. He saw her spiral

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<v Speaker 1>into whatever she wherever she ended. This psychosis she says

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<v Speaker 1>she was in. It is as a layperson, Robes, it's

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<v Speaker 1>hard to understand. But it's also hard to understand why

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecution gives her no room, no possibility that she

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<v Speaker 1>was ill.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is a little surprising. And look, we may

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<v Speaker 2>understand it better as they continue to present their case,

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<v Speaker 2>but this field trip was notable and it is rare.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this does happen, but we can kind of

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<v Speaker 2>name on one hand, maybe the amount of times at

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<v Speaker 2>least from a high profile standpoint, this has actually occurred.

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<v Speaker 2>Where you have the jury go on a field trip,

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<v Speaker 2>so to speak, retracing the rout that Patrick Clancy took

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<v Speaker 2>that night. They started out driving past the CBS, which

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<v Speaker 2>is about a mile from the home where Patrick got

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<v Speaker 2>pedilex and skittles. I don't know why, just he picked

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<v Speaker 2>up some candy for the kids, Like, I don't know why.

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<v Speaker 2>That part of it just struck a nerve for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know who. I don't know if you remember

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<v Speaker 1>if that was just a matter of just a matter

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<v Speaker 1>of fact in adding that detail, or was it added

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<v Speaker 1>for effect, Like you're sitting here just recalling it now

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<v Speaker 1>and clutching your chests, right, it's just you hear that,

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<v Speaker 1>and it it messes with you.

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<v Speaker 2>It does because he was so unsuspecting, he had no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>He was picking up medicine for his child and got

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<v Speaker 2>a little candy to go along with it. We've all

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<v Speaker 2>been there, we've all done that, we all remember when

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<v Speaker 2>we had young kids, and just it just it brings

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<v Speaker 2>it home. And then they went by the three V restaurant,

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<v Speaker 2>which is about five and a half miles away from

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<v Speaker 2>the family home, where he picked up and they made

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<v Speaker 2>they got it very specific, a Mediterranean bull and some risotto.

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<v Speaker 2>Again thought he was coming home to have dinner with

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<v Speaker 2>his family. And then they yes, went to the home

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<v Speaker 2>exactly as Patrick did in Duxbury, Massachusetts. And I thought

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<v Speaker 2>this was interesting. The new owners, we've talked a lot

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<v Speaker 2>about this. They've renovated some of the home, but someone

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<v Speaker 2>did buy that home. They actually tried to block this

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<v Speaker 2>from happening. They actually sought an injunction to block the

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<v Speaker 2>jury from coming to their home and to their property

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<v Speaker 2>for purposes of this trial. But the judge overruled it

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<v Speaker 2>and said, nope, this is important to the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Wondery. Yeah, that's what rights do you have? Apparently none

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<v Speaker 1>to say stay off my property.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they did say that and it didn't work.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want cameras here. I don't want this mess here.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want a reminder of this here. There might

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<v Speaker 1>be somebody that home. Maybe they're kids. They don't even

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<v Speaker 1>realize what had happened. Who knows what? Man, that is

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<v Speaker 1>something that you have no choice.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought that was really interesting because we didn't know,

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<v Speaker 2>we haven't heard any That was the first I heard that. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they did not want this to happen. It occurred anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>The media were they were ordered to stay one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>yards away. And look you can see there's some images

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<v Speaker 2>of them trying to just show the buses lining up,

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<v Speaker 2>but they could not obviously show any jurors, so very

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<v Speaker 2>limited in what they were able to show or see.

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<v Speaker 2>But we do know that the jurors were escorted in

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<v Speaker 2>groups of six, so six at a time, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>three different groups went in and they went to the basement. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine what that was like. And then they

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<v Speaker 2>went into the yard where Lindsay was found by Patrick

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<v Speaker 2>after she jumped from that second story window. And it

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<v Speaker 2>was about a forty minute visit. That's what they said.

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<v Speaker 1>They say, these things help, right, we've been hearing about it,

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<v Speaker 1>hearing about it just like they have now. They got

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<v Speaker 1>to see how many steps she took up and down

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<v Speaker 1>the stairs of the basement, how high was that window

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<v Speaker 1>she jumped out of. Right, you can say it all

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<v Speaker 1>day long, and feet and everything else, but ropes, it

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<v Speaker 1>makes a difference. And they're trying to convince this jury,

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecution is that this was this was not a

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<v Speaker 1>real suicide attempt. If you go in there and they

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<v Speaker 1>said blood was all over the floor office because they's

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<v Speaker 1>cleaned up now, but they're getting to see the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>in this room and getting to see would you say,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, a jump out that window and you

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<v Speaker 1>said she was just faking it like that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff matters.

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<v Speaker 2>It does, And so imagine just the emotion behind seeing

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<v Speaker 2>all of that. After hearing the testimony, you've done and

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<v Speaker 2>then you got to go back to court and hear

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<v Speaker 2>more testimony. So yeah, just before noon, testimony resumed and

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution called five witnesses. They called two police officers,

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<v Speaker 2>two er doctors, and a hospital lab technician. And look,

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<v Speaker 2>some of this stuff was hard to hear, but the

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<v Speaker 2>police officers were talking about what they saw in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of Lindsay Clancy's wounds and her condition. One of them

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<v Speaker 2>testified that the medical staff was not actively treating her wounds,

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<v Speaker 2>which the prosecutions trying to claim were superficial, But the

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<v Speaker 2>defense had him confirmed that he did see those blood

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<v Speaker 2>stains inside and outside the home. And then I thought

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<v Speaker 2>this was interesting. The second police officer did have to

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<v Speaker 2>admit from the defense that there was a code blue

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<v Speaker 2>her first night. He was with her the whole evening,

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<v Speaker 2>which means that, yes, they thought she was dying.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that sounds like she had serious injuries. What

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't the prosecution at some point trying to call them superficial?

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<v Speaker 2>Correct? And then the er doctor who treated little Dawson

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<v Speaker 2>at three just described the broken blood vessels on his face,

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<v Speaker 2>that there was no pulse. They worked on him for

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<v Speaker 2>forty minutes, but there was no chance. And then the

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<v Speaker 2>one who treated little eight month old Callen, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is where Lindsay reportedly began to sob in the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 2>But they said that he did regain a heartbeat ten

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<v Speaker 2>minutes after he arrived at the hospital, but there was

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<v Speaker 2>no brain function.

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<v Speaker 1>You remember baby, the kid on the side here. How

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<v Speaker 1>long did they work on that kid in Arizona that

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<v Speaker 1>they found in the morgue?

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<v Speaker 2>Not very sounded like six minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>Or so right in the hospital and the doctor just

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<v Speaker 1>called it. And then they find the kid and the morgue.

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<v Speaker 1>How many hours laid.

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<v Speaker 2>Five hours, five hours later.

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<v Speaker 1>I think about that and that that is what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. There's a kid, there's in front of you

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<v Speaker 1>that's dead by all measures. They worked for forty minutes

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<v Speaker 1>to do anything they could.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes, that's what you imagine, that's what Yes, that's

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<v Speaker 2>what we've always been I guess that's what I've always

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<v Speaker 2>heard happen. So that was why that one case was

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<v Speaker 2>just significant. And yeah, and then this hospital lab supervisor

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<v Speaker 2>who was the final witness of the day on Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>gave some background about how her lab worked, but she

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<v Speaker 2>preserved Lindsay's blood and urine samples that were taken after

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<v Speaker 2>the killings. And I'm guessing we'll get evidence of what

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<v Speaker 2>that showed in terms that they were just establishing chain

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<v Speaker 2>of command and how it was all done properly. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was significant. That wrapped up Friday. When we come back,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to tell you when testimony resumes today on

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<v Speaker 2>Monday Day, what we are expecting as week two of

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<v Speaker 2>the Killer Mom trial gets underway. Welcome back everyone to

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<v Speaker 2>Amy and TJ. We are talking about week two now

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<v Speaker 2>of the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial. The mom, the

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five year old Massachusetts mom who is admitted to

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<v Speaker 2>strangling and killing her three young children, but her defense

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<v Speaker 2>is that she is not criminally responsible because she was

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<v Speaker 2>suffering from postpartum psychosis. And look, as we have gone

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<v Speaker 2>over what the first week's testimony was, it was gruesome,

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<v Speaker 2>it was emotional, it was chilling. We are expecting now

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution to begin presenting evidence that Lindsey Clancy was sane.

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<v Speaker 2>On January twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can't wait to hear this expert. But I

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<v Speaker 1>can't wait. I would love to hear them. The battle

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<v Speaker 1>of the experts. Now, how do you go about saying Nope,

0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.640
<v Speaker 1>she was faking it, or nope, she doesn't she didn't

0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.160
<v Speaker 1>rise to a certain threshold. This is going to be fascinating.

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:12.959
<v Speaker 1>How do you prove somebody saying or not when you

0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 1>got two people with doctor in front of their names

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:16.760
<v Speaker 1>saying two doily different things.

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.800
<v Speaker 2>It's true. And so yes, we're expecting psychiatric experts to

0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.080
<v Speaker 2>testify for the prosecution in the days ahead. And I

0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>say experts because it'll be certainly more than one. But

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm also curious, like with the reports of just the

0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 2>jurors watching Lindsey Clancy being wheeled into the courtroom. She

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 2>cannot walk based on the injury she suffered after she

0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.360
<v Speaker 2>threw herself outside of that second story window.

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Injury she's paralyzed for.

0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.840
<v Speaker 2>She's paralyzed for the rest of her life. I wonder

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the sympathy just seeing her sob when they describe her children,

0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.960
<v Speaker 2>seeing her sob during that nine to one one call,

0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 2>seeing her sob throughout this I just I wonder what

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.720
<v Speaker 2>that is saying to how jurors are experiencing that and

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 2>how that's going to shape what their verdict ultimately is.

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Robes, there is not a moment we have seen in

0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 1>this courtroom, and we've watched the majority of testimony where

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 1>she came off like a monster. Nothing they describe about her,

0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 1>nothing that she has shown in the courtroom. Nothing. There

0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>was one one something they were going after the prosecution

0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 1>saying she was a control freak. Robes.

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>That's though, that's that's what mom isn't. I'll be honest,

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm a control freak. I think every woman understands that.

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.080
<v Speaker 1>You can't see a monster. You do not see anything

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 1>in her behavior in her past in her present robes

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 1>that suggests that there were times during that was that

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Cora the woman out in the with the book.

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Cory Richards, Cora Richards robes.

0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 1>She's still sitting there, hair pulled back, looks like a young,

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.160
<v Speaker 1>put together mom Rose. They described and things about her,

0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 1>and we saw some stuff in the courtroom from her.

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.720
<v Speaker 3>They go, whoa pretty monstrous. Yeah, there's nothing of that here, baby,

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.840
<v Speaker 3>No there is. So how in the world do you

0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.560
<v Speaker 3>convince this jury that's sitting there crying themselves elves watching

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 3>this woman shape cry paralyzed, and you're going to have

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 3>to go and say, yep, she is guilty of first

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 3>degree murder.

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 1>That's a babe. That's so far tough one.

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>And look, this is and people have said that Massachusetts

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.079
<v Speaker 2>in particular, just the way things work in that state,

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 2>this is going to be This is a heavy lift

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 2>for the prosecution because, in addition to proving that Lindsay

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Clancy was sane at the time of the murders, the

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.240
<v Speaker 2>state also has to establish one of the two theories

0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>that she either premeditated these murders in insane fashion, or

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 2>that she committed extreme atrocity or cruelty in how she

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>murdered them. Look, that might not be as difficult to prove.

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I think murdering a child just is

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>in like just is just cruel period. I don't know

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 2>how you separate a non cruel murder of a child.

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure what.

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Would even call it. What's the standard for us? Say

0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>it again?

0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 2>You have to they have to prove that she committed

0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 2>a extreme atrocity or cruelty. So extreme cruelty, extreme atrocity,

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>strangling a child to death.

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 1>They should all qualify. However, the child should qual it.

0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 1>So but it must mean something else if they had

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:11.960
<v Speaker 1>to put it in there.

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, and so they have I think. Look, the

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 2>main issue is to prove that she was saying. That

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>is going to be That is what is going to

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 2>be fascinating about the days and weeks to come here,

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.680
<v Speaker 2>because that is going to be the prosecution's next effort. Obviously,

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 2>they've established the crime, they've established just the horror of

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the crime. But now this becomes the real battle back

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 2>and forth between the prosecution and the defense, and it

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 2>should begin starting later today, Yes, nine am this morning,

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>so Eastern time. We will continue to watch this trial,

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.320
<v Speaker 2>bring you all the updates from it. We always appreciate

0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 2>you listening to us. Everyone. I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ. Holmes.

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk soon.