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Speaker 1: On October first, nineteen eighty four, a forty nine year

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Speaker 1: old mother named Catherine Fuller took a shortcut through an

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Speaker 1: alleyway in a busy area of Washington, d C. Known

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Speaker 1: as eighth and h. She was beaten and violated in

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Speaker 1: a particularly brutal fashion, and she succumbed to her injuries.

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Speaker 1: Even though only two men were seen fleeing when police arrived,

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Speaker 1: it was believed that there just had to be more

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Speaker 1: assailants involved. An alleged anonymous tip confirmed that fear and

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Speaker 1: led to seventeen arrests and eight convictions, none of whom

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Speaker 1: were the two who had fled the scene. This is

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Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent

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Speaker 1: people in prison, and now we're expanding that voice to you.

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Speaker 1: Call us at eight three three two seven four six

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Speaker 1: sixty six and tell us how these stories make you

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Speaker 1: feel and what you've done to help the cause, even

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Speaker 1: if it's something as simple as telling a friend or

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Speaker 1: sharing on social media, and you might just hear yourself

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Speaker 1: in a future episode. Call us A three three two

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Speaker 1: oh seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,

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Speaker 1: where we've got a historical case from a historical place Washington, DC, where,

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Speaker 1: even though two assailants were witnessed fleeing the scene of

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Speaker 1: a sexually violent robbery and murder, somehow a narrative about

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Speaker 1: a frenzied gang assault took hold and our guest, Chris Turner,

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Speaker 1: was roped into this precursor to the Central Park five,

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Speaker 1: now known as the Exonerated five. Only in this case,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't five.

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Speaker 2: There was seventeen people.

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Speaker 3: The first time ever in the history of America that

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Speaker 3: many people were charge for the murder one person without

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Speaker 3: it being a conspiracy or anything.

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Speaker 1: So seventeen were charged an eight conviction stuck. And we're

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Speaker 1: just super relieved and glad that you survived and are

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Speaker 1: here joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very welcome and returning to the show from

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Speaker 1: the mid Atlantic Innocence Project is one of my personal heroes.

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Speaker 1: Sean Armbrus, John, welcome back.

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Speaker 4: Any chance to talk about this case, I am happy

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Speaker 4: to take.

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Speaker 1: So this story when it happened was huge news. The

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Speaker 1: graphic gang assault narrative stuck in people's minds, and the

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Speaker 1: setting Chris's hometown also has the distinction of being the

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Speaker 1: nation's Capital.

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Speaker 3: I literally grew up on Capitol hill Man when Union Station,

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Speaker 3: all those fountains that you see down Pennsylvania Avenue, Constitution Avenue,

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Speaker 3: I swim in all in my I played hide and

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Speaker 3: go see in the bushes at the Supreme Court. We

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Speaker 3: used to ride our bikes and around the Capitol, around

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Speaker 3: the stairs, and I was your average.

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Speaker 2: Kid growing up.

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Speaker 3: The neighborhood was like any average middle class neighborhood. The

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Speaker 3: community supported each other. My grandmother was one of the

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Speaker 3: highest ranking members in Peace Corps. She used to take

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Speaker 3: us all over the place my siblings. I had two

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Speaker 3: brothers and a sister, and my parents were separated, but

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Speaker 3: my grandmother was the foundation in the family.

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Speaker 2: She took us everywhere.

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Speaker 3: So we would hang out at the Pentagon. From being

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Speaker 3: around that atmosphere, my dream was to go in the

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Speaker 3: Air Force. I graduated when I was seventeen years old.

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Speaker 3: Never been arrested. Used to hang out with a bunch

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Speaker 3: of guys and we'd go to the go gos. We

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Speaker 3: go to different shows, we go to club.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: We were trying to get a band, started a go

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Speaker 3: go band.

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Speaker 1: Go go music for those who don't remember, it was

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Speaker 1: a subgenre of funk born out of the DC area,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just going to do you a favor and

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Speaker 1: link one of the originating groups in the episode description

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Speaker 1: to give you a feel a flavor for the soundtrack

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Speaker 1: for this group of friends, among whom were the children

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Speaker 1: of the victim in this case, Catherine Fuller.

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Speaker 3: Yes absolutely new Well neewer son David her Son. Willim

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Speaker 3: was younger than us, but they both looked up to

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Speaker 3: me as a big brother. So we had some instruments

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Speaker 3: and then we thought we could make some go go music.

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Speaker 3: I used to be the so called manager of the

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Speaker 3: band because I was the one who was putting it together,

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Speaker 3: the drama, the guitars, the keyboards. But we only had

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Speaker 3: really two guys in the band that was any good,

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Speaker 3: and that was James Gomellia and Gregory Williams, who would

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Speaker 3: end up charged with the case.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to get to the laundry list of

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Speaker 1: people from the neighborhood who were dragged into this, including

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Speaker 1: Chris and his alibi witness, Calvin Smith. But first let's

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Speaker 1: go to the afternoon of October first, nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 4: October first, eighteen four, kind of a drizzly day in DC.

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Speaker 4: But it's a busy day at eighth and H Streets Northeast.

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Speaker 4: That area is a very populated section of the city.

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Speaker 4: A whole bunch of bus lines come together. It's check day,

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Speaker 4: so you have people out shopping, doing whatever. And I

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Speaker 4: actually like to tell the story the way it actually happened,

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Speaker 4: as opposed to the way the government has it happened.

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Speaker 4: So on that day, there was a street vendor who

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Speaker 4: was at the corner of eighth and H Streets and

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Speaker 4: his job was kind of watching the area, making sure

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Speaker 4: nobody touched the merchandise, looking for customers. So he's watching

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Speaker 4: the corner, he's watching the alley, and he sees two

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Speaker 4: guys kind of walking up and down H Street Northeast

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Speaker 4: looking like their case in the joint. But that's about it.

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Speaker 4: At around six or six thirty, he goes into the

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Speaker 4: alley to take a leak, and he goes kind of

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Speaker 4: over to where this garage is at the t point

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Speaker 4: of the alley, and he sees blood and he finds

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Speaker 4: the body of Catherine Fuller, who is a very tiny

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Speaker 4: I think like four foot nine ninety eight pounds mother

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Speaker 4: in the neighborhood, and she's been badly beaten. She's clearly dead.

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Speaker 4: He calls the police. Him and a couple of his

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Speaker 4: friends are kind of like monitoring the alley waiting for

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Speaker 4: the police. As the police show up, the two guys

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Speaker 4: who had been kind of walking up and down each

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Speaker 4: street the street vender sees them agin as police were arriving,

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Speaker 4: those two guys bolt. One of them has something puffy

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Speaker 4: in his jacket.

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Speaker 3: They're literally at the garage what a victim is, and

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Speaker 3: they're tucking someone in the jacket and I think the

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Speaker 3: police here. The guys say don't run, and then both

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Speaker 3: of them take off running, So.

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Speaker 4: The police start processing the scene. Missus Fuller's body is

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Speaker 4: in a very small, cluttered garage. She's been badly beaten

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Speaker 4: anally sodomized, so she's got pretty significant brutal injuries. And

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Speaker 4: if you look at the crime scene, evidence looks like

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Speaker 4: it's happened in this garage. There are a group of

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Speaker 4: witnesses who come forward who say they'd been walking through

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Speaker 4: the alley at around five thirty that evening and the

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Speaker 4: garage doors were closed and they heard some low like

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Speaker 4: moans or groans coming through the garage. If you look

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Speaker 4: in that garage, there's all sorts of stuff all over

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Speaker 4: the place, and you don't see that stuff as disturbed

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Speaker 4: that there was room for ten, fifteen, twenty people to

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Speaker 4: be committing this crime. So, if you are someone who's

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Speaker 4: looking at this case like first blush, what you probably

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Speaker 4: think is those two guys who were walking up and down,

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Speaker 4: who were running from the garage, seem important, and this

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Speaker 4: might have been happening at around and so you might ask,

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Speaker 4: how do you go from that to a mob of

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Speaker 4: crazed young people beating Missus Fuller to death in an

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Speaker 4: alley in a total frenzy and sodomizing her with an object, right,

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Speaker 4: Because that's not what that crime looks like.

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Speaker 1: Well, as we mentioned, many of the kids who eventually

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Speaker 1: were convicted were friends with Missus Fuller's sons, never been

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Speaker 1: in trouble, and would not likely be motivated to do

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Speaker 1: something like this for any reason at all, let alone

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Speaker 1: the jewelry and fifty dollars that were stolen. But according

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Speaker 1: to the investigators McGuinness and Sanchez Torano, they received an

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Speaker 1: anonymous tip and I'm not buying it. It's like a

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Speaker 1: go to fallback, you know, something about that sounds fishy to.

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Speaker 3: Me, I'm glad you say that because I'd never brought

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Speaker 3: the theory of anonymous call, because they just created a

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Speaker 3: theory and say, way, it was an anonymous tip that

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Speaker 3: it was these even age guys talking about snatches on

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Speaker 3: one in alley.

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Speaker 4: They don't tend to be huge organized gangs in DC

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Speaker 4: the way there are in like Chicago ORLA. DC has cruise.

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Speaker 4: There was not an eighth and H Crew, though another

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Speaker 4: DC thing is go go clubs, go go's like the

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Speaker 4: DC homegrown music, and the eighth and H Crew was

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Speaker 4: kind of like a go go thing. Someone would say,

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Speaker 4: is the eighth and H Crew in the house, and

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Speaker 4: people from eighth and H would cheer. So there's not

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Speaker 4: really an eighth and H Crew. But in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 4: four you're kind of at the early talk about wilding

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Speaker 4: and youths and.

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Speaker 1: Gangs, and this alleged tip led them to a guy

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Speaker 1: named Clifton Yardborough as well as his brother Ernie, and

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Speaker 1: to their alleged involvement in this fabricated gang.

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Speaker 4: Cliff Yardborough is sixteen at the time, super talented basketball

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Speaker 4: player but very low IQ. So they pick up Cliff,

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Speaker 4: separate him from his older brother and tell Cliff that

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Speaker 4: they know he was at this scene, that if he

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Speaker 4: denies it, he's lying, and if he keeps denying it,

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Speaker 4: he's going to end up getting charged with it.

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Speaker 3: That right there should tell everyone the story that you

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Speaker 3: pick this guy, the youngest, weakest guy who didn't have

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Speaker 3: the mental capacity, and that's where you win at you

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Speaker 3: just drill them for nineteen hours, the problem of food,

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Speaker 3: water anything.

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Speaker 4: Cliff gives police a statement telling them that a guy

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Speaker 4: named Alfonso Harris, his nickname was Monk, a guy named

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Speaker 4: Levi Rouse, Roland Franklin, and a couple of other guys

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Speaker 4: robbed Missus Fuller, and on that basis they arrest Monk Harris.

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Speaker 4: At that point though, all they have is cliff statement,

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Speaker 4: and so they keep investigating. Their next big break, to

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Speaker 4: the extent that we can call it, that comes from

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Speaker 4: a young woman who is sixteen, a heavy PCP user,

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Speaker 4: also has an IQ of sixty three, someone who by

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Speaker 4: the time of trial has changed the specifics of her

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Speaker 4: story so many times that it's hard to keep track.

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Speaker 1: And that was Carrie Ellerby, whose initial statement was made

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Speaker 1: while she was high on PCP. And for those of

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Speaker 1: you who don't know PCP is a powerful drug, and

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Speaker 1: she identified a guy named Calvin Austin.

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Speaker 4: The police are talking to her about some kind of

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Speaker 4: unrelated fight at one of the go go clubs, and

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Speaker 4: she kind of spontaneously tells them that she knows who

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Speaker 4: killed Missus Fuller.

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Speaker 3: First, she says she was riding in a car coming

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Speaker 3: from a go go somewhere in southeast and she over

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Speaker 3: heard a Calvin Austin tell them mal killed the woman

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Speaker 3: in an alley.

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Speaker 4: So police bring in Calvin Alston, very low IQ teenager

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Speaker 4: interrogated by the same police. Officers who interrogated Cliff tell

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Speaker 4: him that they know he was there. He's denying it.

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Speaker 4: They tell him he faces life in prison if he

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Speaker 4: doesn't talk to them. He can either have a piece

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Speaker 4: of the pie or they can have the whole thing.

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Speaker 4: And Austin eventually says he witnessed.

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Speaker 3: A group assault thirteen other people. Yeah, when you're hearing

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Speaker 3: the three, you like y'all got this room, man, people

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Speaker 3: would have random Missus Fuller's defense on a street.

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Speaker 2: This wouldn't have happened that way.

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Speaker 4: He says, it's on video, and he thought he was

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Speaker 4: going to give the statement and go home.

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Speaker 1: Calvin Austin immediately recanted it, but it was too late.

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Speaker 1: His statement named thirteen other people, including Chris Turner, his

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Speaker 1: younger brother Charles, and a friend named Timothy Catlett.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me and Katnet went to a late night movie

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Speaker 3: and watched Beverly Hills Cop and came home and the

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Speaker 3: next morning they kicking out doors. And the crazy thing

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Speaker 3: about it is is someone that you know that you

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Speaker 3: had to grieve about, You had to greeve what a

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Speaker 3: friend about. That's the difference in the Central Park case,

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Speaker 3: in the Norfolk case, and this is somebody that you

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Speaker 3: actually know.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen to this

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Speaker 1: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early

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Speaker 1: and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 3: The people that were charged on the case have never

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Speaker 3: been together. No one has ever heard of an aph

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Speaker 3: and H gang like. I know all the people that

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Speaker 3: were charged, but some of the people on the case

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Speaker 3: don't know each other. The only person I did not

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Speaker 3: know in the case was Lisa Ruffin. Some of the

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Speaker 3: guys are.

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Speaker 2: Meeting each other.

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Speaker 3: They like, Chrissy, who is this? I'm like, oh, that's

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Speaker 3: such and such. That's Bobo or man?

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Speaker 2: Who is this?

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Speaker 3: I ain't never seen this dude for in our neighborhood

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, no, he live in the neighborhood, just.

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Speaker 2: Live up top.

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Speaker 3: And there was a total of seventeen people charged with

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Speaker 3: the case, so naturally people saw on TV that they

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Speaker 3: are arresting people and they are up to seventeen. So

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Speaker 3: you better come up and tell them something when they

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Speaker 3: come knocking on your door or you will be number eighteen, nineteen,

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Speaker 3: and twenty.

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Speaker 4: The other witnesses were mostly teenagers who the police interviewed

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Speaker 4: multiple times, and they just keep bringing people in until

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Speaker 4: they finally broke. There was one witness, Linda Jacobs, who

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Speaker 4: was friend of Carrie Ellerby's.

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Speaker 1: Linda Jacobs gave a statement making her and Carrie ellerbe

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Speaker 1: witnesses instead of just eavesdroppers to Calvin Austin's confession, and

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Speaker 1: the police went back to Carrie ellerb.

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Speaker 3: Now the story changes and now she's a witness tutor

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Speaker 3: murder at the scene in the alley, her and her

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Speaker 3: best friend. Now, if you dare Calvin Austen, don't have

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Speaker 3: to tell you about it. But that was her initial

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Speaker 3: statement they used her against Calvin Austen and then got

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Speaker 3: her to change all her whole testimony around to Kelvin Smith.

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Speaker 3: Curry Elab was supposed to have had a baby by

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Speaker 3: Kelvin Smith, which was ludicrous because Kelvin Smith he didn't

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Speaker 3: need meet Curry Llerb till after missus Fuller's death.

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Speaker 1: Now, if you recall, Kelvin Smith was Chris's alibi witness.

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Speaker 1: They were at Kelvin's during the crime. So this new

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Speaker 1: statement from Ellerb somehow gave Llerb credibility making a statement

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Speaker 1: that incriminated her alleged baby's father and discredited Chriss alibi,

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Speaker 1: even though it was all a total departure from the

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Speaker 1: statement Llerb had made about Calvin Austen. But nevertheless, seventeen

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Speaker 1: people from the eighth and H area were now in

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Speaker 1: jail awaiting trial.

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Speaker 3: Many of the defendants would blame in each other because

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Speaker 3: they didn't know each other. Like, man, whatever y'all guys

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Speaker 3: got me into, y'all need to get me the f

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Speaker 3: off for this case. Man, y'all need to take your

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Speaker 3: fucking weight if you did this. And everybody's agging back

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Speaker 3: and forth, and so we got argaments and fight among

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Speaker 3: ourselves about man. What you know about this man? You

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Speaker 3: better tell the people whatever you know and get me

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Speaker 3: off of this case. And everybody on the case is

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Speaker 3: just lost and dumbfounded, except for Harry Bennett. Harry Bennett

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Speaker 3: is not from that neighborhood. He put itself on the

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Speaker 3: case to take away a drug charge that he had,

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Speaker 3: but he's not from that neighborhood. He's never mentioned in

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Speaker 3: any of the.

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Speaker 1: False confessions, and he's referred to Calvin Austin's statement and

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Speaker 1: a striking inconsistency.

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Speaker 3: Calvin Austin and Bennett said the similar story, but they

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Speaker 3: switched up different people doing different things, and they don't

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Speaker 3: implicate each other. Why because Harry Bennett don't know Calvin

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Speaker 3: alst Kavin don't know Harry Bennett, so they never implicate

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 1: Which sounds like a blazing red flag.

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Speaker 4: What the government says is essentially, well, these inconsistencies don't

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Speaker 4: matter because they all basically say the same thing, so

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Speaker 4: that there was a large grip that attacked Missus Fuller.

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Speaker 4: And first of all, as details do matter when you're

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Speaker 4: looking at those inconsistencies and trying to tell a story

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Speaker 4: and figure out how the witnesses got.

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Speaker 1: There, and not only are they inconsistent with the each other,

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Speaker 1: but with the objective facts of the crime.

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Speaker 4: When we asked a pathologist before the twenty twelve hearing

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Speaker 4: to take a look at this and sort of see, like,

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Speaker 4: are these injuries possible for one or two people to

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Speaker 4: have inflicted? He said, yes, It's actually much more likely

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Speaker 4: that this is one or two people than a large

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Speaker 4: grip crime because of the way they're concentrated.

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Speaker 3: But Calvin Alsen and Harry Bennett said that all these

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Speaker 3: guys was dead. Oh yeah, Chrissy he hit her, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Charles he kicked her. Snot Rag he hit her. Stephen Webb,

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Speaker 3: yeah he kicked her. It's like it was a similar line,

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Speaker 3: like guys had taken torry, Okay, now you go kick

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Speaker 3: And the autos report didn't support this.

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Speaker 4: This pathologist looked at some of the witness statements and said,

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Speaker 4: if this had happened the way this witness said, here

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Speaker 4: are the injuries he would have expected. If it had

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Speaker 4: happened the way this witness had said, here are the

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Speaker 4: injuries he would have expected, and they're not there. The

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Speaker 4: other piece of that is that the government has often

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Speaker 4: said in this case that the injuries were so severe

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Speaker 4: that they couldn't have been inflicted by one or two people.

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Speaker 4: The pathologist said, that's absolutely not the case. If what

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Speaker 4: the witnesses are saying is true, it would have actually

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Speaker 4: been a more brutal crime.

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Speaker 1: In addition, Calvin Austin fought to suppress his own false confession,

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Speaker 1: a process he began upon leaving the interrogation room.

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Speaker 4: He immediately retracts the confession and is writing everybody under

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Speaker 4: the sun telling them he falsely confessed. Was planning to

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Speaker 4: go to trial up until very late in the game.

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Speaker 3: He was in the sale right next to me, across

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Speaker 3: from Lamont Bobby, Calvin Smith, and Daryl Murchison. And once

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Speaker 3: he lost that suppression motion for the video, they actually

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Speaker 3: moved Calvin Alsten. We don't know why they move them.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say they moved him intentionally, but

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Speaker 3: they put them with people who were sentenced already and

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Speaker 3: he ended up right.

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Speaker 4: He was sixteen, He got raped in the DC jail

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Speaker 4: and at that point he said, like, I've got to

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Speaker 4: get out here, and so he agreed to testify for

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Speaker 4: the government Jesus.

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Speaker 1: So they had Austin Bennett Yarborough, Ellerbye Jacobs, and a

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Speaker 1: young man named Maurice Thomas, who claimed to be able

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Speaker 1: to identify Chris Turner from a distance by the shape

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Speaker 1: of his head. Yeah, and that is what passed Muster

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Speaker 1: as the state's evidence that they planned to present at

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Speaker 1: two separate trials, the first of which was for ten

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Speaker 1: of the seventeen co defendants.

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Speaker 3: They told the public that they were more and they

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Speaker 3: were gonna get more. The other seven were supposed to

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Speaker 3: be indicted on full of two but the one guy,

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Speaker 3: Darryl Merchison, was not indicted because he had a time

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Speaker 3: cause showing that he was at work at the time.

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Speaker 3: Lamart Bobbitt, his girlfriend had a detailed journal hour on

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Speaker 3: the hour and her and.

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Speaker 2: Lamont was together.

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Speaker 3: Another one of the guys, we were not in town

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Speaker 3: or was locked up somewhere else at the time, maybe Rowland,

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Speaker 3: Franklin or something. And so they don't want none of

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Speaker 3: that stuff to come out.

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Speaker 1: The alibi evidence would have impeached the credibility of all

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Speaker 1: of the state's witnesses, so those whose alibis could be

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Speaker 1: undermined went to trial, including Chris and Charles Turner, Kelvin Smith,

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Speaker 1: Timothy Catlett, Levi Rouse, Stephen Webb, Russell Overton, Clifton, Yarborough,

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Speaker 1: Alfonso Harris, and Lisa Ruffin.

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Speaker 3: One person had public defendant Alfonso Harris, because he was

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Speaker 3: the first person arrested, so the public Defender's office couldn't

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Speaker 3: represent no one else on the case because of conflict

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Speaker 3: they're interests. So we all received quarter pointed attorneys. They

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Speaker 3: never did no investigation work, They never did any research.

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Speaker 3: This would have been came out, but they thought that

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Speaker 3: we all were gonna plead guilty. How could you not

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Speaker 3: plead guilty to the worst case ever in the history

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Speaker 3: of DC when they offer you plead deals to six years.

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Speaker 3: They offered me a plea deal to two years at

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Speaker 3: least a rough and one year, and offered everybody else

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Speaker 3: a plead.

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Speaker 2: Deal to six years.

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Speaker 3: And I told him I'm not pleading juilty to somebody

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Speaker 3: didn't do. And it should have woke the lawyers up

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Speaker 3: if they were actually defense attorneys. Even when trial was

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Speaker 3: going on, they offered us plead They kept on convincing

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Speaker 3: us that we need to plead out to this and

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Speaker 3: move on.

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Speaker 1: But they refused, and the prosecutor, Jerry Goren, took them

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Speaker 1: to trial in late nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 4: The evidence that it is presented at trial is the

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Speaker 4: testimony of Calvin Austen and Harry Bennett that they, along

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Speaker 4: with the defendants of some other individuals, were hanging out

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Speaker 4: at a bus stop at the corner of eighth and

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Speaker 4: H Streets when cliff Yarborough started singing a go go

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Speaker 4: song about getting some money. That someone saw Missus Fuller

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Speaker 4: from across the street and said let's go get her,

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Speaker 4: and that they accosted her, drag her into the alley,

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Speaker 4: rob her her, beat her in a wild frenzy, and

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Speaker 4: somehow they all come to agree eventually that the person

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Speaker 4: who committed the analsodomy with an object was Leevi Ross,

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Speaker 4: and that they then left. That's the overarching narrative. Bennett

400
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Speaker 4: and Alston put themselves in the crime. Carrie Ellebie and

401
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Speaker 4: her friend Linda Jacobs. They tell very different stories about

402
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Speaker 4: what they saw, but they put themselves there watching the crime.

403
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Speaker 4: Another teenage witness, Maurice Thomas. Police were initially looking for

404
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Speaker 4: a different Maurice who they heard knew something about the crime,

405
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Speaker 4: but they found Maurice Thomas, and he ultimately told them

406
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Speaker 4: that he had been walking by the alley, and he

407
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Speaker 4: was able to sort of identify some of the people,

408
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Speaker 4: including Chris Turner, by the shape of his head. The

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Speaker 4: witnesses weren't great. They weren't super credible, so the jury.

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Speaker 1: Must have picked up on some of the inconsistencies. But then,

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Speaker 1: out of ten attorneys, only the public defender, Michelle Roberts

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Speaker 1: raised the suspects who ran from the scene, and without

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Speaker 1: Clifton Yarborough testifying to what had been coerced out of him,

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Speaker 1: the case against her client, Alfonso Harris was basically non existent.

415
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Speaker 3: Calvin Austen didn't know Afonso Hers, Harry Bennett didn't know

416
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Speaker 3: Afonso Hers really, and then the girls lay what from

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Speaker 3: the neighborhood and didn't know Afonso Hers.

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Speaker 1: So Harris had a shot. Meanwhile, none of the attorneys

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Speaker 1: even bothered questioning the state's theory of a group assault. Instead,

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Speaker 1: there was a great deal of call it friendly fire.

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Speaker 4: They were just all fighting with each other. So it

422
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Speaker 4: was this defendant was there, but my client wasn't, and

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Speaker 4: so they adopted the government's narrative and just quiverled with

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Speaker 4: the specifics. And again the witnesses weren't super credible. But

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Speaker 4: the crime was awful and there wasn't any sort of

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Speaker 4: real competing theory presented.

427
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Speaker 2: It was a mess.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we had the worst attorneys that you could

429
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Speaker 3: possibly have if anyone had just went to the crime scene.

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Speaker 3: We kept begging for attorneys just go down there and

431
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Speaker 3: just look. Just take pictures. You'll see. This not possible

432
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Speaker 3: to happen like this. This can't occur the way they're

433
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Speaker 3: saying it.

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Speaker 1: So it appears that the only person who worked in

435
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: the service of justice was the public defender. And meanwhile

436
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: the jury was stuck with these inconsistent witnesses and a

437
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Speaker 1: defense panel that resembled crabs in a barrel.

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Speaker 4: The initial convictions took a really long time. I think

439
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Speaker 4: the jury was out for about a week.

440
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: One jury told me that they voted over seventy times

441
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: before they reached the verdict. They found two not guilty

442
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: right then and there, and then they convicted six.

443
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 4: The two who are acquitted are Alfonso Harris and then

444
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 4: Felicia Ruffin, frankly, because I think there's like nothing against her.

445
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: It's unclear how she ended up there, which.

446
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: Left two more for the jury, Russell Overton and Chris Turner.

447
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: I was already grieving because they found my brother and

448
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 3: other men guilty of a crime. I knew that they

449
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 3: had not committed, so I was already grieving. But it

450
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: was just like you had found me guilty already before.

451
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: So over the course of.

452
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: The next two days, the juriors kept telling the judge,

453
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: we can't reach a verdict, that they wanted to go home.

454
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 3: They've been sequestered in a hotel, they haven't seen their family,

455
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 3: they hadn't been able to take care of their homes.

456
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: This trial been going on for two months. This impossible

457
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 3: for a verdict to be reached, and my attorney moved

458
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: for a mistrial, and Russell over theon attorney didn't want

459
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 3: a mistrial. The judge continued to send them back there

460
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: to deliberate anyway, and basically told them what they know

461
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 3: what their verdict should be. They had a duty to

462
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: bring back a verdict and they found us guilty.

463
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 4: So Chris ultimately was convicted of murdering Missus Fuller. He

464
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 4: was sentenced to twenty six years to life in prison.

465
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: He was nineteen at the time, and that was actually

466
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: the latest sentence received by any of the eight men

467
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 4: who were convicted.

468
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: It was gut Rich, and it had broke my spirit

469
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: because I thought that I let so many people down,

470
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 3: and so.

471
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 2: It was a tough time for me.

472
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 3: I didn't want people who had invested so much in

473
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: me to think that I threw that all the way

474
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: and that I did the crime, and so it put

475
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: me at the lowest point in my life.

476
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: They gave most of the US federal destination.

477
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: I was sent to Ashland, Kentucky, and so I would

478
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: spend the next three years there. I angry, mad as

479
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: hell solitary confinement most of the time. The gods hated me,

480
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: the inmates hated me. They applied to kill me a

481
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: couple of times. They told me that my life was

482
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: in danger. I just didn't even care at that time.

483
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 3: I'm like, you guys think you mad, you should imagine

484
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: how mad I am.

485
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: But I also made the transformation there.

486
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: I was locked down twenty three hours a day by myself.

487
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: So I began to read everything that I could get

488
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: my own hands on. The more I read, the more

489
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: I love reading. And so I read a book Call

490
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: for a Boy, and it changed my life.

491
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 2: I thought my.

492
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: Situation was the worst situation in the world, and I

493
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 3: thought no one could relate to it. When I read

494
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: that book about the trocity in South Africa. As bad

495
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: as I thought my situation was, it was not the

496
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: worst situation in the world.

497
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: That's when the transformation made place.

498
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: That was when I made up in my mind that Chris,

499
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: you get a chance to make this your monastery, or

500
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: you get the chance to make this your place of

501
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: how I learned in it. And so from that point on,

502
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: I began to.

503
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: Change my perception.

504
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: I changed people's perception of how they was gonna perceive me.

505
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: I stopped feeling sorry for myself. I stopped feeling bitter,

506
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: I stopped being angry, and I said, I'm gonna do

507
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 3: something about it. I began studying the law. I said,

508
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm gonna get myself out of prison.

509
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: And part of that journey was reaching out to a

510
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: journalist named Patrice Gaines, who had covered the trial for

511
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: the Washington Post.

512
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: I was blaming Patrese in Washington Post and everyone for

513
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: our conviction, because I told him that we were convicted

514
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: in the newspaper long before we ever went to trial,

515
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: and we were never given a fair trial. And I

516
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: reminded her that I was still innocent, and she wrote

517
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: me back and told me that the case didn't set

518
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: well with her and she had a problem with it.

519
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: Then then she was new to the Post and she

520
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: didn't have no backing.

521
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 4: Patrese was the lone black journey Us there who was

522
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: covering the case. Even then, she had serious doubts about

523
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: the case, but she was the only one at the

524
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: Post who felt that way, And so when she heard

525
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: from Chris again later, I think it really stirred something

526
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: inside her. Patrese talks to Calvin Alston and Harry Bennett.

527
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 4: I think Calvin Alston had been kind of recanting for

528
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: a while at this point, and he recanted to her.

529
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 4: Bennett recanted to her. In two thousand and one. She

530
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: ultimately wrote a story for the Post, but this case,

531
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: at least back then, still had a lot of power

532
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: in DC and instead of a series like she was hoping,

533
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 4: it became one article in the Style section. But it

534
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 4: got the attention of the then newly formed mid Atlantic

535
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: Innocence Project.

536
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: And she had a literal bombshell to share. Patrese discovered

537
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: that a woman named Amy Davis had told the police

538
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: about her boyfriend James Blue just weeks after Catherine Fuller's awful.

539
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 4: Murder, Amy Davis comes forward and says she witnessed her

540
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 4: boyfriend James Blue commit the murder. Police follow up, they

541
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: decide they don't think Ammy Davis is credible.

542
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: They say they never believe their story. Her family vividly

543
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: says they went to visit her and witness protection in

544
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: Annapolis at a hotel that the government is known to

545
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: have used for witness protection. The family wouldn't have had

546
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: no reason to make this up. Amy Davis actually had

547
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: Missus Fuller's wedding ring. They actually sold her ring to

548
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: a group of people down on a street when they

549
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: took it to the police office and say we got

550
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: this ring. We think that might be described as the

551
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: ring miss fullet. It was last scene when she left home.

552
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 4: Ammy Davis statement just goes in a pile. It's never

553
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: just close to the defense. Eventually, Amy Davis is actually

554
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 4: murdered by.

555
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: That boyfriend, a murder that happened the week before the

556
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: Fuller trial. Now, James Blue died in prison in nineteen

557
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: ninety three, and it's possible that Amy Davis was lying

558
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: to gain protection for herself from an abusive partner and

559
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: the wedding ring was just a coincidence, but either way,

560
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: it's Brady material.

561
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: And so based on the initial recantations and the Amy

562
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 4: Davis evidence, the initial lawyers filed a joint Innocence Protection

563
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: Act petition and post conviction petition.

564
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: And while this filing was processed, Chris had already done

565
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: twenty six long, miserable years and was finally eligible for parole.

566
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: We told him ahead of time that we were not

567
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: beingmit and guilt, and we presented this Brady material to

568
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 3: the parole boy and they had enough sense to believe

569
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: in my innocence. I'm the first person to ever parole

570
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: first time up without admitting guilt.

571
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: By now, Sean and her team at the mid Atlanticainnis's

572
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: project had officially taken over the.

573
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 4: Case, so we sought formal discovery, and that's where we

574
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 4: got information about all of the times the government interviewed

575
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: its own witnesses, all of the times those stories were changed,

576
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: about the people walking through the alley who saw the

577
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: garage door closed and heard moans at five point thirty.

578
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 4: That's where we got some of the most valuable information

579
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: in the case, including information about James McMillan.

580
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: If you recall the street vendor who discovered the body.

581
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: He and his friend saw two men fleeing the scene.

582
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: The police arrived, well, they had actually made an id

583
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty four.

584
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: One of the men, identified a guy named James McMillan,

585
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 4: is known to police. He lives right on that alley

586
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: with his aunt, and he's known to police because he's

587
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: been robbing and beating women in alleys in that area,

588
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: and the beatings are particularly brutal and nasty.

589
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: But it appears that since this didn't fit the gang narrative,

590
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: McMillan was merely prosecuted for his other violent robberies at

591
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: that time.

592
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: And just months after getting out of prison for those robberies,

593
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety two, James McMillan happened to murder and

594
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: Analie Sodoma as another young woman in an alley a

595
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 4: couple of blocks away. And when you look at the

596
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 4: later crime, those injuries actually have a similar pattern and

597
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 4: if anything, are even more severe, and we know that

598
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 4: crime was only committed by one person.

599
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the nineteen ninety two murder doesn't qualify as Brady

600
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: material since it didn't exist at trial. But the nineteen

601
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: eighty four identification and McMillan's nineteen eighty four violent crimes

602
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: absolutely did so. In twenty twelve, they filed a motion

603
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: that contained the Brady material as well as some really

604
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: helpful supporting evidence.

605
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 4: So at the twenty twelve hearing, all of the recanters,

606
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 4: a bunch of witnesses from the neighborhood testify, including two

607
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 4: women with CIA level security clearances, who testify about the

608
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: ways in which the police interrogated them in this case

609
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 4: and were making accusations and just kind of assuming that

610
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 4: every teenager in the neighborhood was potentially guilty. But at

611
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: the end of the day it was all denied by

612
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 4: the trial judge, who had been friends with the original

613
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 4: trial judge on the case, so I think came in

614
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 4: with some pretty strong preconceived notions and brought those to bear.

615
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: It appears this judge felt similarly to the trial prosecutor,

616
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: Jerry Goren, who also took the.

617
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 4: Stand, specifically with the macmillan evidence. He said, it really

618
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: would have only made a difference if this had been

619
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 4: a one or two person crime, and of course, like

620
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 4: that's the point, that's exactly the point.

621
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: Both Goren and the judge had ignored the new evidence

622
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: because it had flown in the face of the trial evidence,

623
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: which was also shown to have been wholly unreliable.

624
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 4: So we appeal that to the DC Court of Appeals.

625
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 4: We also lost there, and then as kind of what

626
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 4: we saw as hail Mary, we filed a petition for

627
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: regisource errari with the US Supreme Court. And in the

628
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 4: US Supreme Court, we couldn't bring forward the evidence of innocence,

629
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 4: so we couldn't bring the recantations because that's only a

630
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: claim under DC law, but we could raise the Brady issues.

631
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: When they said the Supreme Court I accepted it, I

632
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: thought it was a dune dee. I don't recall a

633
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: Brady violation that they accepted that they did not overturn.

634
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: We figured we.

635
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: Had at least four votes, because that's what it takes

636
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 4: to get cert in the US Supreme Court, and why

637
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 4: would they bother granting cert if four people weren't fairly

638
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 4: sure they wanted to reverse the lower court decision. So

639
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 4: we had oral argument in the case, and it was

640
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: pretty clear that we did not have justice sodomor, which

641
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 4: was a bad sign, and we ultimately lost. We had

642
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 4: given it our best shot. There was a lot of

643
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 4: stuff that was withheld from the defendants at trial, But

644
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the most powerful evidence

645
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 4: we have is the similarity between the murder of Missus

646
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: Fuller and the nineteen ninety two murder that James McMillan committed.

647
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 4: But the Supreme Court can't consider that or chooses not

648
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 4: to consider that, because it is about what the prosecutor

649
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 4: knew at the time and what they should have turned

650
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: over at the time, and what the trial would have

651
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: been like at the time. So anything that happens after

652
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 4: that isn't really relevant.

653
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: Since this defeat in twenty seventeen, Chris has been focused

654
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: on living even though his name still hasn't been fully cleared.

655
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: The charge is still come up on the certain criterias.

656
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 3: I try to apply for a job with Homeland Security TSA,

657
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: the charge is still come up. This case is over

658
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: forty years old and we still get back down on verse.

659
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 4: People who are convicted in local DC courts can't go

660
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: to the mayor. We don't have a governor because we're

661
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 4: not a state. What we have is the president. The

662
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: Central Park five now exonerated five just spoke at the

663
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 4: Democratic National Convention. And if there's any case that this

664
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 4: case reminds me of, it is the Central Park five

665
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 4: case that kids were like having kind of a wild

666
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 4: night in Central Park and ergo, they must have all

667
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 4: just gang raped someone that if you browbeat teenagers for

668
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 4: long enough, they'll either confess or give you the witness

669
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 4: statements you want. And at the end of the day,

670
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 4: this type of case is exactly what a pardon is for.

671
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 4: Right a pardon is supposed to be a chance for

672
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 4: you to bring evidence that you can't take to court.

673
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 4: And so no one with any kind of unbiased view

674
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: has ever looked at the facts of this case.

675
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: Right now we have a pardon and in front of

676
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 3: the president by we're confident that we have enough evidence

677
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 3: to get him to do the right thing, and all

678
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: the guys on the case, some of the families can

679
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 3: finally get the relief that they deserve, including the fullest family.

680
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 3: They hoping that we get the pardon and they can

681
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 3: actually get the rest that they deserve and finally move

682
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: past the case, because until justice is to serve, no

683
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: one can actually move forward.

684
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: Amen to that, and we're going to link some action

685
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: steps in the episode description and with that, let's now

686
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: go to closing arguments, my favorite part of the show,

687
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: where once again I thank you Sean and Chris from

688
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: the bottom of my heart. And it works like this. Sean,

689
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: you know you've been here several times before. I'm going

690
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: to turn my microphone off and leave my headphones on

691
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: and just listen to anything else you want to share

692
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: with me and our wonderful audience. Sean, you go first,

693
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: and then just hand the mic off to Chris and

694
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: he'll take us off into the sunset.

695
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 4: Nobody wins when innocent people are convicted. Family of the

696
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 4: person James McMillan murdered when he got out of prison

697
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 4: like that never should have happened, and the guys who

698
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 4: were convicted shouldn't have to live their lives with the

699
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 4: stain of allegedly committing one of the most gruesome murders

700
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 4: in DC history. Yes, they're out of prison, but I

701
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 4: don't like being falsely accused of knowingly parking in someone

702
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 4: else's parking space. Imagine that you are just known in

703
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 4: DC and have been since you were a child, for

704
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 4: committing a murder like that. Imagine being nineteen years old,

705
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: being convicted of something you didn't do and going back

706
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 4: to the DC jail and having the whole jail erupt

707
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: in cheers because you were convicted. That's what happened to them.

708
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 4: Imagine being target in prison because of the crime you're

709
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 4: convicted of even though you didn't do it. Like that's

710
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 4: what they've been living with for most of their adult

711
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 4: lives and some of their non adult life. And the

712
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 4: President has the power to undo that, and he should

713
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 4: or she should.

714
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: I extend my honest to you, Jason and the entire

715
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: staff there and the work you're doing. Whether we get

716
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 3: the partner or don't get the partner, we'll still be

717
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: talking about it. My closing thoughts is just extend honors

718
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 3: to the entire wrongful conviction community and the advocates and

719
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: the tremendous work that's being done on so many fronts

720
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 3: behind the scenes to bring.

721
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: This to the forefront.

722
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: We wish that the Justice Department get behind it, pull

723
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 3: your head out of the sand, but I think they're

724
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: afraid to get behind it.

725
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: This is the one case that they.

726
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: Don't allow any of their attorneys to have opinion about

727
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: one way or another. Because you got to ask yourself

728
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: if you did this in a case that everybody was watching,

729
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 3: What the hell is going on? In cases where nobody

730
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: is watching, and I think that's the thing that they're

731
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: afraid of, that there'll be a windfall, you know, when

732
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: you think about what's really going on behind the scenes.

733
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

734
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

735
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

736
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our

737
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as

738
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn.

739
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time

740
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

741
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and

742
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram

743
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of

744
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number

745
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: one