Speaker 1: Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2: Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Speaker 2: Other Side.
Speaker 1: Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
Speaker 1: everything on the other side.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
Speaker 2: or to some the invisible world, life is going to
Speaker 2: be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1: Uh heck, yes it can, because, let's be honest, br in,
Speaker 1: earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2: That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1: Well, hello, my witchy o pooh, have I missed you?
Speaker 1: You've been like doing our show without me. It's like
Speaker 1: Insider Guide from Brenda.
Speaker 2: No, it's not like that at all. It's just holding
Speaker 2: a space, just holding sacred space. Yeah yeah, So where
Speaker 2: what have you been up to, my olf?
Speaker 1: Well, I've been working, moving, and not sleeping.
Speaker 2: That's not like you.
Speaker 1: No, it's not like me. Uh so, I actually wanted
Speaker 1: to hijack this episode. I'm a psychic haijacker. I'm like
Speaker 1: jacking the other side I and I think part of
Speaker 1: why I haven't been sleeping is I've been actually uh. There.
Speaker 1: I have an unresolved grief situation. I had somebody in
Speaker 1: my life that just jumped I say, in my life.
Speaker 1: But and I'm not going to reveal it. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to reveal it yet reveal I can't even speak
Speaker 1: reveal it yet. Want to tell the story. Breathe elf, breathe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to actually unveil the story. And I think
Speaker 1: part of what has been keeping me up was I
Speaker 1: believe this person contacted me the other night. But I've
Speaker 1: been wanting, I've been, I've been, I think, dealing with it,
Speaker 1: this this unresolved thing in my life, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to share it because I've made I think I've made
Speaker 1: a promise to everybody if I didn't say it this way,
Speaker 1: is you know, to be as transparent as I can
Speaker 1: be vulnerable. I really believe I think everybody's probably learned
Speaker 1: this at least once. Is because I think we learned
Speaker 1: from other people's stories. And I just I think this
Speaker 1: is a doozy and I can't possibly be the only
Speaker 1: one that has that is dealing with it, will deal
Speaker 1: with it, or will ever deal with it. So I
Speaker 1: just want to share the story and and hopefully I
Speaker 1: can sleep tonight, So I'm gonna use y'all to sleep.
Speaker 2: Is there anything before you get started? Is there anything
Speaker 2: specific that you would like from me to hold the
Speaker 2: space for you? Because it sounds like it comes from
Speaker 2: a deep space.
Speaker 1: We'll find out it does come from you know what.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna So just so y'all know, Brenda doesn't know. Shit,
Speaker 1: I didn't you like the pause in between Brenna doesn't
Speaker 1: know and then the pause and shit. But I actually said,
Speaker 1: I go, I need. I feel like this is important.
Speaker 1: It's definitely important to me, I hope will be important
Speaker 1: to other people. And I actually want you to experience
Speaker 1: the unfolding of it so you know where to come in. Okay,
Speaker 1: So yeah, of course you will. I mean you're Brenda,
Speaker 1: for the love of God. Okay. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: start with the story, and I'm going to start in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, okay, as everything like that wasn't that
Speaker 1: by centennial centennial? So in nineteen seventy six, I was
Speaker 1: seven years old, and I remember the day that mom
Speaker 1: came home, Margaret came home and she goes, I got
Speaker 1: you something, and she got me a seven iron a No.
Speaker 1: Nine iron, a seven iron, and a five iron, and
Speaker 1: she took me out to the driving range at our
Speaker 1: little crappy country club in my Oklahoma, and she had
Speaker 1: a bucket of range balls what they're called, and she
Speaker 1: sitt here, no instruction, no nothing. So I picked up
Speaker 1: the club. I held it like a baseball bat because
Speaker 1: I had I mean, I had no instruction. I just
Speaker 1: held the thing. The first time I swung and hit
Speaker 1: a ball, it went high in the air and far
Speaker 1: it was. I had a gift that was I was
Speaker 1: born with. I had this incredible hand eye coordination. Mom
Speaker 1: later in life used to say, give the kid a
Speaker 1: stick and a ball, and she can play anything. And
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of what became an early career
Speaker 1: in golf for me. By the time I was nine
Speaker 1: years old, I was beating about ninety five percent of
Speaker 1: the people at the country club. Yeah. When I was ten,
Speaker 1: I won my first state championship in Oklahoma in the
Speaker 1: nine holers group because they have nine holes in eighteen
Speaker 1: holes for those that don't play. And so the first
Speaker 1: year I played, I won at Southern Hills Country Club
Speaker 1: u Tulsa, Oklahoma. When I was eleven, I won again
Speaker 1: when I was twelve, I went up to the big
Speaker 1: girls group and the eighteen holers and I was actually
Speaker 1: runner up in the state and still hold a record
Speaker 1: for being the youngest to ever achieve that.
Speaker 2: So at twelve, you were playing eighteen holes in competition. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: After that, I was competing nationally. I think by the
Speaker 1: time I was a senior in high school, I was
Speaker 1: ranked in the top ten in the country, being recruited
Speaker 1: by different colleges to play golf, all the while, uh
Speaker 1: not really enjoying the game. Just to be really frank
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: What what kept you playing?
Speaker 1: So what kept me playing was most people know about
Speaker 1: my not so fabulous on the Virgius super tragic childhood
Speaker 1: with the stepfather. It was I got out of the house,
Speaker 1: which was big bonus, and I had it was like
Speaker 1: many famous in a small shitty town, you know. I
Speaker 1: was Julie the golfers, really great at something. It started
Speaker 1: to grow a little bit more. It was it was
Speaker 1: I was adored. I was admired ways I didn't feel
Speaker 1: when I was in mom's presence. Yeah, A mom was different,
Speaker 1: Like it's you know, it's that whole weird household thing
Speaker 1: of one side of the house was like heaven. The
Speaker 1: other side was hell, you know, So it was there
Speaker 1: was a way to escape my life, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: But honestly, I never liked it. But I was really
Speaker 1: good at it, which is a really weird thing, just
Speaker 1: for the record, like to be really good at something
Speaker 1: but to really not give a shit about it. And
Speaker 1: also the worst part of it, well know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of worse parts of it, but a really bad
Speaker 1: part of it is I was good without practicing, and
Speaker 1: everybody knew I didn't practice, and so the other girls
Speaker 1: or boys that I would play against were so frustrated
Speaker 1: because I didn't try. You know. I'd go out and
Speaker 1: practice a little bit, and the thing is I was good.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of I mean, imagine if I focused
Speaker 1: and gave a shit the only thing that I truly loved,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't even me what I truly loved. And
Speaker 1: I remember my mom doing this at a golf course
Speaker 1: called Cedar Springs, I think it was Theater something and Tulsa,
Speaker 1: and it was she would follow me, she would like
Speaker 1: hide in the rough behind trees because she just wanted
Speaker 1: to watch me play. And the joy I got was
Speaker 1: the joy I saw on her face. That was truly
Speaker 1: the joy that I had. Did she play, Oh my god, yes,
Speaker 1: she was terrible. She made me hit her ball, and
Speaker 1: I remember one time she made me play with her
Speaker 1: and I hit all of them. I mean, like I
Speaker 1: she would hit from where I'd hit her ball. And
Speaker 1: one time she got so pissed off because she hit
Speaker 1: her ball in the sand trap. She got in there,
Speaker 1: couldn't get out of the sandtrap, and she's yelling, God,
Speaker 1: damn it, and she leans down, picks up the ball
Speaker 1: and tosses it up on the green and I fell
Speaker 1: over laughing for just how frustrated she was. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: she was not that good of a My mom wasn't.
Speaker 1: She was a swimmer, she wasn't a golfer. Okay, she
Speaker 1: did it for fun, you know. But yeah, so she
Speaker 1: had a kid that was really good at this shit,
Speaker 1: like I. You know, I remember being in my early
Speaker 1: teens and I would go play by myself, you know,
Speaker 1: just go out and play around, and I would hear
Speaker 1: guys that were very intimidated. Some guys were great because
Speaker 1: they thought it was cute. A girl was good, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not really great. It was just condescending. Then there
Speaker 1: were ones who were actually horrified, and then they would
Speaker 1: say things like, well, she gets to play from the
Speaker 1: red tea. So in golf, there are three teas. There's
Speaker 1: the and when I play, there were the red tees.
Speaker 1: The white teas were the men's teas, which were further
Speaker 1: back made the whole longer. And then behind that was
Speaker 1: the championship teas, and those were the blue teas. So
Speaker 1: just to fuck with them all, I would play from
Speaker 1: the blue teas them not exaggerating, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: roll on. It was just what my world. What my
Speaker 1: world was. So so then came college recruitment, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to take a break because I want to come
Speaker 1: back because this is a good time to hit part
Speaker 1: two of this story.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll be right back and welcome back to next
Speaker 2: the cliffhanger. Here we go.
Speaker 1: For being unresolved.
Speaker 2: For being unresolved, here we go.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so college of recruitment came up and I
Speaker 1: was for I was supposed to go to Georgia University
Speaker 1: of Georgia. I was going to be a Georgia Bulldog.
Speaker 1: At the time, Georgia was ranked second in the country.
Speaker 1: They were ranked behind University of Tulsa and UH. In
Speaker 1: college athletics, they only have a set amount of scholarships,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe golf usually had between like six
Speaker 1: full scholarships and sometimes they would split them and do whatever.
Speaker 1: In the scholarship I was supposed to get at Georgia
Speaker 1: was actually held by a young woman who ended up
Speaker 1: red shirting. In red shirting, is you kind of sit
Speaker 1: out the year so you could keep your skull Like
Speaker 1: what happens is most at most college athletes cannot make
Speaker 1: it through a university in four years.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: It is. It's a lot to be a taxing athlete.
Speaker 1: It is very tax It's you don't have hardly a
Speaker 1: minute to yourself. So the one I was supposed to
Speaker 1: actually get this from ended up red shirting kind of late,
Speaker 1: so the coach had to pull it from me. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I was, as you can imagine, devastated. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: always been quite sensitive, let's be honest. I mean it's
Speaker 1: not something that came up later in life. It's something
Speaker 1: that came.
Speaker 2: Up to birth.
Speaker 1: Before that, from the get go, from the tike go,
Speaker 1: being kind of sensitive, and I was pretty despondent, like
Speaker 1: for a couple of days, I was just distant to
Speaker 1: really do anything, and my mom said to me, she said, well, honey,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been recruited by Oklahoma. I might as well's just
Speaker 1: go there. Like it was. It was that that level
Speaker 1: of excitement. Yeah, and I'm being totally truthful, Like my
Speaker 1: level excitement was very low.
Speaker 2: It's not what I wanted. Yeah, it's despondent, right, it was.
Speaker 1: I was desponded. So I made it just really, this
Speaker 1: is interesting. So the decision I made. You're going to
Speaker 1: find out how that paid off here in a minute.
Speaker 1: So I ended up getting scholarship to Oklahoma, lived in
Speaker 1: the jock dorms. My college roommate named Cindy was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Our coach was. I say it was because now we're
Speaker 1: headed to part of the What's end resolved. Her name
Speaker 1: was Carol Ludvigsen, who just jumped last week. And so
Speaker 1: I played on the team for two years, so in
Speaker 1: nineteen we started in nineteen seventy six. Now we're going
Speaker 1: to fast forward to nineteen eighty nine. So I was
Speaker 1: nineteen two months shy of twenty. My frontal cortex was
Speaker 1: not fully formed, just to remind everybody. And somehow my
Speaker 1: mother let me take an internship in Chicago, Oh mercy,
Speaker 1: and let me drive there by myself, oh, as a
Speaker 1: nineteen year old, right on the verge of twenty March. No,
Speaker 1: it was all fine. I mean I made everything was fine.
Speaker 1: But while I was driving and by myself, I had
Speaker 1: my ship packed in my little Mazda six two six
Speaker 1: that was silver. And it's weird the things you remember
Speaker 1: when you're up at three am thinking about all these
Speaker 1: fine details. But I remember driving, and it was kind
Speaker 1: of late in the evening. I think it was late,
Speaker 1: like two am, but it was late in the evening.
Speaker 1: And my whole life, I've been a fan of three artists,
Speaker 1: Neil Diamond and Murray and Barry Maneloe because that's what
Speaker 1: my mother listens to. And still to this day, I
Speaker 1: love all three and for all of our Canadian listeners
Speaker 1: and the Canadian I'm with I'm with you to boot.
Speaker 1: So on this drive, I had a cassette tape also
Speaker 1: signifies the era. Also the era I had this cassette
Speaker 1: tape and no cell phone, so just clear that up.
Speaker 1: I was listening to this Barry Manlow Greatest Hits, and
Speaker 1: this song came up and it was I made it
Speaker 1: through the Rain. I won't bother everybody, but he could
Speaker 1: listen to it later if you care to. While that
Speaker 1: song is playing, I start thinking about I don't want
Speaker 1: to play golf anymore. Oh yeah. And so I'm listening
Speaker 1: to Barry saying I made it through the rain. Couldn't
Speaker 1: stop it. I had to do it, y'all. And and
Speaker 1: as I'm listening to this song, I make a decision
Speaker 1: that I'm going to quit the golf team.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I just want to back up from it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, back up.
Speaker 2: So obviously, when we're driving alone, we have a lot
Speaker 2: of time. You know that we can't distract ourselves because
Speaker 2: we're driving, so that can be helpful. Plus you have
Speaker 2: music hitting the emotional field, right, But you had been
Speaker 2: aware of this thought, like I don't love golf. But
Speaker 2: did you know that I don't want to play anymore?
Speaker 2: Did you? Were you conscious of that before you got.
Speaker 1: In the car?
Speaker 2: Okay, now that's what that's what it feels.
Speaker 1: But insight, it's a little obvious though it also shows
Speaker 1: you frontal cortex. The cortex thing, is it wasn't really
Speaker 1: like clicking. Because I took an internship at an ad
Speaker 1: agency in Chicago. I did not plan to spend my
Speaker 1: summer playing in tournaments and practicing golf. So let's just
Speaker 1: be real clear, like there were signs, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, but also just because you're taking an internship in
Speaker 2: Chicago doesn't isn't overtly saying I'm not going to golf
Speaker 2: this summer. Did you not pack your clubs?
Speaker 1: Fuck? No, I didn't pack my clubs. Okay, No, didn't
Speaker 1: take them with me? Nothing?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, so obviously I and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: my well i'll get to the I'll get to in
Speaker 1: the second. And so, so I made this decision. I've
Speaker 1: never felt this feeling. I never felt what I'm about
Speaker 1: to describe prior to this moment, and I've never felt
Speaker 1: it after. So when I'm driving me and Barry, so
Speaker 1: I he shot done, and I made and I made
Speaker 1: like it was like the final decision. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. I want an education,
Speaker 1: is really what it was like. I want an education,
Speaker 1: and I'll give it them more than yourself. A second,
Speaker 1: but the most powerful thing. I physically felt chains being
Speaker 1: lifted off my neck and shoulders. I felt them, I
Speaker 1: felt weight and it was chained.
Speaker 2: Awesome, right, So I so I knew that.
Speaker 1: Was my sign. Yeah, wow, doing the right thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know. I was so constrained by this right,
Speaker 2: so blesant to buy it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like imprisoned by something. I was awesome
Speaker 1: at weird, right, but.
Speaker 2: It's so, it's so amazing because the body always knows.
Speaker 2: The body knows, the body knows.
Speaker 1: So now remember, no cell phone, I can't talk to anybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's only me and Barry. Still, I make it to
Speaker 1: Chicago and Anne and Neil and I know. But it
Speaker 1: was Barry who was like, he was my man help keeper.
Speaker 1: He was my he's also my gay keeper. So so
Speaker 1: I get to Chicago. I pulled into the place that
Speaker 1: Mom had set up this rent, like for me to rent. Okay,
Speaker 1: so here's what I thought. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what I thought was good I was walking into,
Speaker 1: but I pretty much think I rent. I got a
Speaker 1: room in a halfway house. You weren't allowed to stay
Speaker 1: there more than three months, and they provided breakfast and dinner,
Speaker 1: and you had a room and he had to share
Speaker 1: a bathroom on the floor. So I think I stayed
Speaker 1: in a half way house when I interned in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Just f y everybody, Oh my god. So but here's
Speaker 1: what's funny. I had a great time. I made it great.
Speaker 2: Of course he did.
Speaker 1: So they had a payphone, so I got a pay
Speaker 1: phone in the hall, Yeah they did. It was a payphone.
Speaker 2: Didn't everyone else there have ankle bracelets?
Speaker 1: So I mean, right, I mean it kind of seems
Speaker 1: like I was. I think I was in a half
Speaker 1: way house and he was like five hundred bucks a month,
Speaker 1: and back in that was a lot. Yeah, but no,
Speaker 1: well it was five hundred buck. My rent in Dallas
Speaker 1: was one hundred and forty.
Speaker 2: So so.
Speaker 1: I'm in the halfway house. But they fed me twice
Speaker 1: a day, and uh that not unpacked my stuff. And
Speaker 1: the first thing I did was I went to a payphone.
Speaker 1: I called my mom and I'm like, Mom, I don't
Speaker 1: think I want to play golf anymore. Said in fact,
Speaker 1: it's not just I think I don't want to. And
Speaker 1: I wasn't terrified to tell her because that's wasn't the
Speaker 1: relationship that we had. And she goes baby I will
Speaker 1: support you. I you know, tell me more. And I said,
Speaker 1: you know, Mom, I I I think I realized something
Speaker 1: was off when I took this episode. By the way,
Speaker 1: Micah cut along, y'all, so get comfy. So I told her.
Speaker 1: I said, when I took the entrance exam to get
Speaker 1: into the journalism school at University of Oklahoma, it was
Speaker 1: very rare for people to pass the first time. And
Speaker 1: I actually passed the first time, and I was accepted
Speaker 1: to the j school. And I remember seeing my name
Speaker 1: is back in the days again, pre computer, pre all
Speaker 1: this shit, right like dark ages, they would they would
Speaker 1: post they would post it on the glass wall or
Speaker 1: glass yeah and so, and my name was on it
Speaker 1: that I passed. And I remember walking out of there
Speaker 1: and I swear I floated down the stairs or ind
Speaker 1: and I felt like I jumped like Mary Tyler Moore.
Speaker 1: And I told Mom, I said, I have never felt
Speaker 1: that way about golf. Oh, in fact, I'll say about anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I never felt it. And i've and I had had
Speaker 1: a hole in one and didn't give a shit. I
Speaker 1: literally had a hole in one and I kind of didn't
Speaker 1: give a shit.
Speaker 2: You had a hole in one before you were twenty yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. I was fifty playing at an AJJ
Speaker 1: tournament in uh like Lake Tahoe, uh in front of
Speaker 1: a guy named Phil Mickelson for anybody who follows golf,
Speaker 1: who was one of the most famous male professional golfers.
Speaker 1: Didn't give a shit. I mean, I just literally didn't
Speaker 1: give a shit. So I told her. And so when
Speaker 1: I told her the story, right, I told you working,
Speaker 1: you didn't know any of this stuff.
Speaker 2: I did not know any of that.
Speaker 1: No, and here's the thing nobody did until today. I
Speaker 1: never talked about this. No, I've never talked about this.
Speaker 1: This has been this like kind of deep seated thing
Speaker 1: and like it's ps it's going to get way worse
Speaker 1: here in a minute. So so I told mom about it. Shees, honey,
Speaker 1: I understand, she said, no, I'm going to tell you.
Speaker 1: I go. What's that? She says, this is your decision.
Speaker 1: You're an adult, and you need to go take care
Speaker 1: of it. You need to call coach. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: because she also raised me that way. She raised me
Speaker 1: to make your decisions and live with them, deal with
Speaker 1: the bad ones, celebrate the good ones, but you take
Speaker 1: care of your own stuff. I really didn't want her
Speaker 1: to say that because I wanted her to call coach
Speaker 1: for me. Secretly, I'm just gonna let y'all know I
Speaker 1: wanted my mama to like step in and rescue me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, knew that was not going to happen.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't going to happen. It was not Margaret.
Speaker 1: So I called Carol and told her I didn't want
Speaker 1: to play anymore. I vaguely remember the conversation. I remember
Speaker 1: we were both crying on the phone. I'm pretty much.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I think the overall message that I
Speaker 1: gave was it's not you, it's me. It's also true
Speaker 1: breaking up. I mean it kind of in a way.
Speaker 1: So you know that was was rough and emotional and
Speaker 1: all of those things. And so I ended up transferring
Speaker 1: to SMU, but I had to spend one more semester
Speaker 1: at University of Oklahoma because I had decided this big
Speaker 1: decision was too late to get into SMU and in
Speaker 1: the fall. Okay, so I embarked on probably the loneliest
Speaker 1: time I've ever had in my life. I ended up
Speaker 1: getting an apartment that was out off campus.
Speaker 2: By your people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was by myself because my world were the golfers,
Speaker 1: the team, and the coach, and no one spoke to
Speaker 1: me again except my friend Audra Mel's wife, Audra. They
Speaker 1: all were done with me. I'm gon get into the
Speaker 1: part here. Yeah right, uh yeah.
Speaker 2: What the hell? That's awful we were. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make excuses. I'm just going to
Speaker 1: say this is what it was. I spent I mean
Speaker 1: as the lonely at four months I've ever had in
Speaker 1: my life. I remember being on campus and seeing my
Speaker 1: freshman roommate and I saw her and I was getting
Speaker 1: ready to like wave, and she turned over. She turned around,
Speaker 1: she looked at me, she saw me, and then she
Speaker 1: looked back and walked away. And I remember thinking, wow,
Speaker 1: I bailed you out.
Speaker 2: Of jail, and now I want to put you back in. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I bailed her now, I mean she she went to
Speaker 1: still Water with her boyfriend on the football team, and
Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of other football players, got hammered,
Speaker 1: went to a kettle restaurant where they used to have
Speaker 1: that all you can eat breakfast for four bucks, you
Speaker 1: know buffet thing. It's very Oklahoma.
Speaker 2: Okay, you take your word for it, but still you
Speaker 2: would think you would think on a team, you're building camaraderie,
Speaker 2: you take care of each other.
Speaker 1: Friendships, right, So so the things that would roll through
Speaker 1: the things that roll through my head were things like
Speaker 1: I abandoned them, which I can see that they would
Speaker 1: feel that way. I also funny enough, because I quit
Speaker 1: at the top of my game. For the record, I
Speaker 1: quit after we played in Las Crusis, New Mexico, and
Speaker 1: I think I shot par for the tournament.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, like I quit at like literally the height of
Speaker 1: my game, and but it made room for other people
Speaker 1: to go in and compete for that spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I did hear some trash talk that happened
Speaker 1: and things like that, but you know, it was a
Speaker 1: really lonely time. So is this good for another break?
Speaker 1: I do part three? Yeah, we'll do part three. Okay,
Speaker 1: y'all hang with me, y'all. It'll be worth it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Going to resolve the unresolved? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1: Something? I don't know.
Speaker 2: We'll we'll be right back and welcome back, okay, my ouf, Yes,
Speaker 2: take us, take us with it. Yeah, where are we going?
Speaker 1: I want to bring us home the dark Knight of
Speaker 1: the Soul. Yeah, I'm going to bring us home, I
Speaker 1: think is so, you know, here's this event in my
Speaker 1: life that was, you know, pretty substantial. And I don't
Speaker 1: even think at the time I knew exactly why I
Speaker 1: didn't want to play anymore. I think I I think later,
Speaker 1: when I would talk more to my mom about it,
Speaker 1: I would tell her things like, you know, uh, I
Speaker 1: use it as a crutch. I needed to grow up.
Speaker 1: I needed to not be Julie the golfer anymore. Because
Speaker 1: I did. I felt that's what I did with the sport.
Speaker 2: So here's what.
Speaker 1: Happened for the last fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your stepfather still in the house at this now? No?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no he no. I think I
Speaker 1: was twelve when Mom booted him. Okay, well, okay, this
Speaker 1: ship last. It still hangs around. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: gonner rihea. It never goes away. So exactly what my
Speaker 1: mother would say. By the way, people are like, what's
Speaker 1: gone a rhea? Or she called the clap So yeah,
Speaker 1: she called goner rihea, diarrhea, all these which called the
Speaker 1: Ria sisters. She was a mother, a freak of awesome nature.
Speaker 1: She was funny shoes funny. So I think I started
Speaker 1: to understand more and I would express and I would
Speaker 1: talk to her about it, and that I just I
Speaker 1: didn't need it in my life. I needed just to
Speaker 1: be who I was, whoever that may be. I wasn't
Speaker 1: quite sure, you know, but I'm gonna fast forward to
Speaker 1: let's call it fifteen years ago. We all have cell phones,
Speaker 1: we have Facebook, you know, we have the interweb, we
Speaker 1: have all these things. I ended up getting Carol's phone,
Speaker 1: her cell phone number, and I would reach out for
Speaker 1: fifteen years.
Speaker 2: You were looking, you were looking for it.
Speaker 1: No, I actually got it from Audra like I had.
Speaker 1: Audre gave me Carol's cell phone and I had I had.
Speaker 1: She was on Facebook. I think, so I had ways
Speaker 1: and I would constantly, consistently, if not twenty years, would
Speaker 1: reach out. And I wasn't looking for anything in particular.
Speaker 1: I think what I was really looking for was, I
Speaker 1: don't know, to maybe apologize for how I handled it.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether I needed to sit there and
Speaker 1: listen to where I failed anybody for any reason? Did
Speaker 1: I not communicate clearly? I was really open. I wanted
Speaker 1: to clean it up. I wanted I wanted Carol to
Speaker 1: know that for that part of my life, like everybody
Speaker 1: was so incredibly important to me, and I just was
Speaker 1: so sorry that it didn't extend beyond that, Like it
Speaker 1: just felt so unfinished, you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: it was like you know, baking a cake and it
Speaker 1: comes out half bad or half caked. It's like it
Speaker 1: wasn't done. I just needed to I needed to know,
Speaker 1: so I needed to understand something I needed to And
Speaker 1: I'm all willing to apologize. I'm all willing to do
Speaker 1: any of those things. That's actually been a pretty consistent,
Speaker 1: I think, part of a good chunk of my life.
Speaker 1: And so I call and then I'd get a text
Speaker 1: that says, oh really, because I was called Reager back
Speaker 1: then too, Oh Reager, you know, sorry I missed you.
Speaker 1: Call me in a few days. So this went on
Speaker 1: for decades. I think I saw her on a zoom
Speaker 1: call during COVID because there was this They were having
Speaker 1: a zoom call with some old players them like my
Speaker 1: generation and my old teammates were on there, and I
Speaker 1: knew because Audra right. So Audra like kept me in
Speaker 1: the loop on things and invited me to join this,
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I really would like for
Speaker 1: you to ask if it's okay, because I don't want
Speaker 1: to trigger anybody like I because I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm here in the dark, right right. I see Carol,
Speaker 1: and I'll see another teammate who also jumped not long
Speaker 1: after that named Audrey, who was amazing and she had
Speaker 1: cancer as well. That's Carol actually passed last week of cancer.
Speaker 1: And it's sixty three. And I think Audrey, I know,
Speaker 1: I think Audrey was in her mid fifties. And I
Speaker 1: was able to tell Audrey at the time on that
Speaker 1: call in front of everyone, how incredibly important she was.
Speaker 1: She was like our grounding force. She was this you know,
Speaker 1: very loving, supportive energy that she gave to everyone. So
Speaker 1: I was able to at least tell her that. You know,
Speaker 1: we've talked before, Brenda on air off air about when
Speaker 1: people have come to us and shared their stories about
Speaker 1: the impact that we had on them, and I always
Speaker 1: want to give that back, you know. I always want
Speaker 1: to tell people who have done that for me. And
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I wanted to tell Carol. I don't
Speaker 1: know what I wanted to tell her.
Speaker 2: But this is the first time you're able to speak
Speaker 2: to her.
Speaker 1: Correct, That's the first time I had spoken to her
Speaker 1: in thirty two years, maybe after chasing her, trying to
Speaker 1: resolve right, and I knew so I knew she was sick. Audra,
Speaker 1: because I'm still close with Audra. She told me that,
Speaker 1: you know, Caeren wasn't doing well. And then mel actually
Speaker 1: called me when I was in Los Angeles last week
Speaker 1: to tell me that Carol had passed. And I haven't
Speaker 1: slept great since then. In fact, the other night, when
Speaker 1: I actually did get some I swear to you, she
Speaker 1: came to me. I can't remember exactly what was said,
Speaker 1: but I swear she came to me. Didn't feel resolved,
Speaker 1: you know, I because I still I'm still dealing with
Speaker 1: the unresolved nature. And I don't know if it's just
Speaker 1: her I'm unresolved about, or if it's the whole experience,
Speaker 1: the larger group, the whole thing it was. Even though
Speaker 1: it was my choice and I recognize that and I
Speaker 1: and I made the right shore. I don't regret my
Speaker 1: choice whatsoever. Oh my god, No, no, like zero regret
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: She she just loved you so much.
Speaker 1: Is that why.
Speaker 2: She just loved you so much? And she felt one
Speaker 2: she didn't want to lose you. Obviously, she because because
Speaker 2: she felt like golf actually had more to give to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's fair, that's fair, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she actually loved the game. She knew what you
Speaker 2: did for the team, she knew what golf did you
Speaker 2: know to get you to school. But she actually thought
Speaker 2: golf could help you connecting with more of your own
Speaker 2: power right now, just between you and golf, and she
Speaker 2: didn't get a chance to do that. So she felt
Speaker 2: like she failed you. And the fact that you had
Speaker 2: a whole trajectory for a vision for your whole life
Speaker 2: that she wasn't even aware of. She felt like she
Speaker 2: failed you because while she loved the game and she
Speaker 2: wanted to give that talk to the team, to every girl,
Speaker 2: every young woman who was there, she felt like she
Speaker 2: missed this from you. So she felt like a terrible
Speaker 2: coach because she knew, she knew how to how to
Speaker 2: navigate some other of the young women. You know, away
Speaker 2: from golf.
Speaker 1: There were some really players that thought they were done.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was way nicer than that. But she's
Speaker 1: totally right about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she she didn't realize that you had this
Speaker 2: other vision and we're perfectly suited for She never doubted
Speaker 2: your intelligence or your gifts and how fast your mind moved.
Speaker 2: But she she didn't see that. She was blind and
Speaker 2: so she felt insecure and in sufficient for you, and
Speaker 2: so it blindsided her in a way that she had
Speaker 2: so much shame. Fuck, that's why she couldn't take your call,
Speaker 2: not because she didn't love you, for the opposite reason.
Speaker 2: She had so much shame that she had had had
Speaker 2: failed you.
Speaker 1: Wow. Right, So y'all, this is an unresolved exactly why
Speaker 1: I needed to talk about it today.
Speaker 2: She loves you so much, she's in awe of you.
Speaker 2: She watched your whole career.
Speaker 1: On the innerweb machine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: In those shame no, no, but just the fact that.
Speaker 2: She couldn't receive you, Okay, I try?
Speaker 1: Or did I try?
Speaker 2: I tried, and it was her insecurity, right, it was
Speaker 2: her insecurity and shame.
Speaker 1: So she did come to me the other night. Huh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I knew she did. She knows something staying up thinking
Speaker 1: about this for nights.
Speaker 2: Says you are always sensitive.
Speaker 1: We all knew that. No mystery there. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's laughing when she says you can sleep now,
Speaker 2: Thank you were good. I died that she needed it too.
Speaker 1: Carrying this around for a long time.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I did try.
Speaker 2: She's so sorry that she put you through that. That's
Speaker 2: not what she intended. She wasn't aware. She wasn't aware.
Speaker 2: She thought she was the only one in pain about it.
Speaker 2: You had nothing to be ashamed of. You were doing
Speaker 2: exactly what students are supposed to do, find themselves, and
Speaker 2: you did better than most. Okay, you did it better
Speaker 2: than most, like you do everything else.
Speaker 1: In my When I thought she visited me, I could
Speaker 1: have sworn I reminded her to go hang out with mom.
Speaker 1: Did she happen to do that? She loved my mother,
Speaker 1: and my mother loved her.
Speaker 2: Told her to say, hey, it hasn't happened yet, she's
Speaker 2: not been there that long. No, but she's on the list.
Speaker 2: She's on the list.
Speaker 1: My mother loved her. She used to talk about me
Speaker 1: behind my back and it didn't bother me. She would
Speaker 1: like reach out to my mom and talk to mom,
Speaker 1: and I'm like.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, they needed that. They both loved you. That
Speaker 2: was what they hadn't come, and it was me. Yeah right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they'd love for you. That's what they hadn't come, and
Speaker 2: that's what they celebrated. Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1: Not what I expected. Never is yeah, right, yeah, it
Speaker 1: never is. Wow. Well, everybody welcome for this joyous fucking episode.
Speaker 1: M But I think that.
Speaker 2: You can let it go. You can let it go,
Speaker 2: she says, you can let it go. Well, I will
Speaker 2: see you again. And she had a beautiful life plan
Speaker 2: for you, she knows it. But you would not have
Speaker 2: had had to work so hard if only you loved golf.
Speaker 2: The fact that you didn't kind of got in the way,
Speaker 2: I know, she said. But the thing is, you not
Speaker 2: being attached to the game helped you play with freedom.
Speaker 2: So it never looked like you were suffering. You played
Speaker 2: with such freedom. But that's what we all longed for. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She used to bitch at me for not wearing socks.
Speaker 1: By the way, I've hated socks my whole life. She
Speaker 1: may be playing this sleek one time, and I wouldn't
Speaker 1: wear socks like the things that I remember. It was such.
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, it's like you look at
Speaker 1: different times of your life and everything has different levels
Speaker 1: of power, and to it right that time that was
Speaker 1: held a lot of power. If I'm sitting here at
Speaker 1: fifty four going on fifty five, right, I just talked
Speaker 1: about from nineteen going on twenty and the power it
Speaker 1: holds from night kin going on twenty to fifty four
Speaker 1: going on fifty five is a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2: It's a lot. And without this tension in this decision,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have you wouldn't have developed the resolve and
Speaker 2: the resilience to tackle what you tackled in life. Right.
Speaker 2: This served you. I see that it didn't wound you
Speaker 2: in a way that was damaging. It created a wound
Speaker 2: for you to recover from. Right. Like when you break
Speaker 2: a bone and then the bone heels, it's stronger in
Speaker 2: that place than the rest of the bone because of
Speaker 2: the cartilage laid down. That's that's how it served you.
Speaker 2: This was not a mistake, This was not an error
Speaker 2: in your life. This was part of your path for
Speaker 2: your strength and for your resilience. Think of the fights
Speaker 2: that you had to fight right because you knew it
Speaker 2: was right and you stood up and it exhausted you sometimes,
Speaker 2: but you had that inner strength because of the decisions
Speaker 2: like this that you made when you were twenty that
Speaker 2: you made. I think that was my correction.
Speaker 1: Nineteen going on twenty. I'm an August baby. And so
Speaker 1: is Carol.
Speaker 2: And I remember her birthday, Augustabeth Leo to Leo.
Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? But like, I can't remember so many
Speaker 1: people's birthdays, but I remember hers. But you know what,
Speaker 1: It's true. It was actually the first time I've ever
Speaker 1: made a really hard decision.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, she's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, should we rename this podcast resolved? I'm not sure?
Speaker 1: Now I knew, I didn't. I knew. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to tell you about any of it ahead of time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you were with me the whole way.
Speaker 2: I was with you the whole way. Didn't you did
Speaker 2: not know where it was going. And there's one other thing, Yeah,
Speaker 2: she wanted to know. She wants you to know it
Speaker 2: was only out of sheer love and admiration for you
Speaker 2: that she did not ever approach you as a student
Speaker 2: to come back. She wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: So many time, so for me to come back to OU.
Speaker 2: She'd come back to the to the to the t
Speaker 2: even if like, even if you didn't come back to play,
Speaker 2: but to heal. And she said she felt like it
Speaker 2: would have been disrespectful of your decision. And it was
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things she's ever done. Wow, to
Speaker 2: not reach out to you for years, for years, this
Speaker 2: was hard for her.
Speaker 1: Well, we sure did break each other's hard, didn't we?
Speaker 2: Out of love and stubbornness and fear.
Speaker 1: Wait? Was I the stubborn one in the scenario? I
Speaker 1: have to sit up for this answer.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think the stubbornness and the fear,
Speaker 2: especially when you reached out to her so many times,
Speaker 2: that was all on her. It was shame. It was shame.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, Well, this has probably been the longest episode
Speaker 1: we've ever had. And thank you. I thank you Carol,
Speaker 1: and certainly thank you my Witchiboo of course. And I
Speaker 1: hope those who have been able to make it through
Speaker 1: this because I barely did myself, that you kind of
Speaker 1: look at your own life and you look at these
Speaker 1: situations and learn from them. Sometimes it's a little late.
Speaker 1: I think. Know a few things is that if you
Speaker 1: can resolve, make an effort. If you can't, it eventually
Speaker 1: will be I guess I am not sure exactly what
Speaker 1: else to say.
Speaker 2: If you can't. If you can't resolve, if you don't
Speaker 2: have direct actus access through your own dreams and meditation
Speaker 2: or mediumship, just choose.
Speaker 1: Lovey that's best advice ever.
Speaker 2: And I want to thank everyone for listening and remember
Speaker 2: that our school is hard, so very hard sometimes, and
Speaker 2: it is never without the presence and love and support
Speaker 2: of the other side. Thanks for listening, everybody, Thank you
Speaker 2: for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks to our
Speaker 2: producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard,
Speaker 2: who guides us while we guide.
Speaker 1: You hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
Speaker 1: or shoot us a note at high Hi at vibes
Speaker 1: dot store.
Speaker 2: We want to know what you think, we want to
Speaker 2: know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
Speaker 2: And remember, our school is hard.
Speaker 1: Without the other Side. Insider's Guide to the Other Side
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