WEBVTT - The Joy In Getting ‘Rich’ 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.159 Heyba fan, Mandra here all right. I know everyone is 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.000 missing Tiffany while she's on this much needed epic vacation, 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.600 but listen, I'm still here, y'all. I got you. I'm 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.320 kicking off this incredible beginning of summer with a special 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.559 series of guest co hosts, starting with the one and 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.800 only Chris Browning from the Popcorn Finance podcast. He's joining 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.280 me next Wednesday, June ninth. Chris is basically someone who 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:47.040 invented the perfect snackable money podcast with his show, which 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.879 was recently featured on a list of great podcasts from 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.640 none other than The New York Times. Not shabby at all. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.040 This week, though, I've got a little something special for you. Honestly, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.720 we've recorded dozens of episodes of this podcast, but if 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.279 we had to choose our favorite episode ever, it could 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.560 very well be this conversation we had with Christina and 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.600 Aman of our Rich Journey last year. Christina and Aman 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.200 are former government employees and parents of two who use 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.360 savvy investing strategies and a whole latta hustle to retire 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.319 before age forty in Portugal. Now they help other people 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:27.080 pursue fire financial independence early retirement on their YouTube channel, 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.399 Our Rich Journey. They get super candid with us on 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.600 the show, revealing just how much they squirreled away before 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.920 they determined they had enough in the bank to retire forever. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.800 But look beyond the dollars and cents, really what left. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.920 The biggest impression on us had to be the insanely 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:49.560 palpable waves of joy they exuited. It was seriously contagious. Honestly, 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.400 it sent Tiffany on her own journey to find joy 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.160 in her business and success, and it helped me get 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.360 back in touch with that twenty two year old girl 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.520 I used to be the one who turned down a 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.840 job to travel internationally after college. She's someone I honestly 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.080 didn't know I was still allowed to be in my 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.560 thirties with a kid and a husband and a mortgage. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.840 That was until I spoke with Christina and Aman. Suddenly 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.440 I remembered what all my hard work and passion for 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.280 saving and investing husband for my own ticket, not just 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.440 to wealth, but my own version of a truly rich 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.920 and fulfilled life. Okay, Okay, that's enough rambling for me. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.160 Here's our conversation with Christina and Amman. I'd love to 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.440 hear from you, guys. Feel free to hit us up. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.680 We're at Brown Ambition on Instagram, or you can shoot 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.760 us an email directly at brand Ambition Podcast at gmail 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.840 dot com. We are joined today by the fabulous Our 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.440 Rich Journey. The brains behind Our Rich Journey, Christina and 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.640 Amman Browning. Welcome to the show. 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:50.800 Hey, thanks for having us. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.360 Yeah, thank you. We have been looking forward to this. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.400 We were so excited about this call. So we are 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.360 so glad to be speaking with you guys. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:58.600 Now we're geek. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.680 I'm like, ugh, I just don't our audience is going 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:01.120 to love you. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.079 Oh money too. Let me brag on y'all for a 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.200 little bit because your story is so inspirational and I 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.360 know that our audience will love you. But as we mentioned, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.200 the Brownings come from the San Francisco Bay area. You 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.240 guys both worked for the federal government until your late thirties. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.040 You decided, let's just quit our jobs. Let's just retire. Now, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.080 how about that? With what a ten and a twelve 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:22.880 year old at the time. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.679 Yes, yeah, well so they're eleven and thirteen now, so yeah, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.480 they were about ten and twelve at the time. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.760 What better not only quit your job. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.639 Yeah, very casually. Well, no, I mean, I'm kind of 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.720 making it seem easier than it was. You guys planned 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.360 for this. You joined the Fire movement before you even 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.080 knew there was a Fire movement? Is that right? 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.520 Oh, that is totally right. I love how you said 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:44.800 that too. 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.360 It's like we didn't even really know what we were 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.320 doing as we were doing it in terms of classifying 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.080 it as a Fire movement, because when we started, it 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.600 wasn't like this huge thing. It's not a huge thing now, 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.920 I would say, but it's much bigger than when we started. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.840 So Fire is really financial independence retiring early. And the 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.200 concept is really that you save as much money as 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.240 you can, you make as much money as you can, 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.480 and then you invest that money and then that money 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.200 will grow enough to a point where you have enough 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.880 money that you can reach financial independence and retire and 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.520 never have to work again. So that whole sort of 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.040 introduction to Fire was we were sort of working on 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.440 it and doing all these things towards Fire, but there 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.840 wasn't really we didn't know the name of it at 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.000 the time when we started. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.159 We'll talk about I mean, so take us back to 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.080 eight years ago. Was it eight or nine years ago 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.640 when y'all decided as a couple was it was it 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.679 one big conversation where y'all where you were both like, hey, 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.000 we should retire early? How soon? Eight years? How's eight years? 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:48.760 And then you put it like, how did that? How 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.720 does it work as a couple? How do you decide 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.120 we are going to both strive for this goal? Get 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.440 on the same page and talk about the steps that 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.919 y'all took in your early thirties to be able to 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:00.120 retire before. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.920 Well, you know, it was a AHA moment for me 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.760 at work. I was at work working for the federal government, 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.400 and I was going through the motions every day in 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.640 the rat race. And I was at work one day 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.200 and I received an award for my length of service 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.040 with the federal government for ten years. And at this 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.359 awards assembly, there was another federal employee that had gotten 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.680 an award for thirty years of service. And I just remember, 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:29.320 at this assembly, my ten years was just insignificant. They 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.840 hurried me off the stage. It was nothing. And at 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.919 that moment, I realized that I didn't want to be 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.040 here thirty years just to get another piece of paper. 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.000 And so I went home. I had this conversation with Christina, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.240 and you know, there were so many things that we 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.200 wanted to do besides just spend the rest of our 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.760 lives in our cubicle. And so we had this conversation 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.640 and we didn't really know how we were going to 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.000 do it, you know, we had it was just a goal. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.360 A goal was to be able to develop enough passive income, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.599 either with real estate or with the stock market, to 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.960 be able to quit our jobs and live off of that. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.560 And so when I went home and me and Christina 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.520 had this conversation, what Christina did is what she always does. 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.160 She was like all in for she said, let's do it. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:15.600 Let's figure out a way to get it done. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.039 Plus your heart. I mean, my husband and I can't 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.440 even ngram what to order on door Dash. I mean 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.600 that's like a two hour conversation. Well, now, I think 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.600 y'all's relationship, I mean has to be so strong, such 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.360 a foundation of trust, and I just and it comes 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.719 across from me and your YouTube channel and your videos. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.400 You can really tell that y'all are all in with 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.359 each other, and that's that's beautiful to see. TIF what 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:38.560 do you want to ask now? 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.080 I just want to know, like what in your I know, 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.040 so you have that initial excitement, but what were there 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.560 things that made you nervous about about this journey that 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.360 you were like, how were we going to handle these things? 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.279 Some because I'm sure there are certain people who were. 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.000 Listening and they're like, I'd love to retire early, but 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.360 I'm nervous about dot dot dot And how did you 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:57.240 handle those things? 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.400 There was a list. I think the biggest thing on 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.520 our list was the amount of money that it would 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.240 take to retire to do it. You know, we have 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.880 this thing called a fire number, and it's a number 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.320 that you calculate and it's based off of the amount 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.360 of money that you would need in an investment portfolio 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:19.200 in order to call yourself financially independent. And just calculating 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.680 that number and seeing that number on paper, that was 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.080 very intimidating. So that was one thing for sure. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.960 Yeah, and I think you know it's for us. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.960 It's really like, when we have maybe these challenges, are 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.080 we thinking, Okay, how much is it going to take 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.720 in order to retire? Because I think one of the 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.640 things that man forgot to say is when he came 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.440 home and we were talking about it, he said, I 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.240 want to retire before I'm forty, and so for us 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.840 it was like, wow, that's not a huge amount of time, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.920 So what are the things that we need to do 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.000 in order to make that happen. So I think the 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.120 challenge for us too was at the time, like I said, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.440 there wasn't a lot of information out there, There wasn't 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.680 a lot of information in general in terms of how 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.239 to pursue fire. And Aman and I also both came 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.480 from backgrounds where we didn't learn about investing or even 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.160 saving money, really making money extra money, how do you 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.720 go about doing that? So we didn't have that type 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.040 of background in terms of learning how to really deal 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.840 with our finances. So that was definitely a struggle. I mean, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.480 I think part of it is really becoming comfortable in 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.600 how do you make these real estate transactions, how do 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.679 you make these stock market investments, and really becoming financially 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.840 literate and understanding how to try and grow our money. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.439 So I think a lot of people when they're on 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.320 the fire journey, that can be a struggle because it 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.000 can seem sort of overwhelming. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.400 You have to make all this money, and then you 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:47.239 have to figure. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.160 Out how do you grow your money because you can't 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.240 just allow it to sit in a savings account. It's 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.080 not going to happen. You're not going to get that 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.320 type of money to retire early. So those were some 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.280 of the challenges that I guess the biggest challenges that 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.080 we had when we're pursuing. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.280 Fire and you had so you're in your early thirties. 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:05.480 You have two girls at the time. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.760 They're young, right, yes, so they were I think around 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.200 three and five, probably Christie. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:13.800 Why didn't you just completed law school? 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:14.880 Yeah, I was. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.880 I actually started law school. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.080 I went to law school at UCLA, and the girls 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.400 were down in LA with me, and Aman was actually 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.000 working at the time, but he was working in San Francisco, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.600 and so he was coming back and forth every weekend. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.760 I mean, I cannot even imagine, you know, I was 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.440 there with the girls at law school, but every single 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.920 weekend a mon was driving down or flying down from 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.120 San Francisco to LA to be with us and support us. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.200 It's like he didn't even skip a beat. And so 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.000 for us, yeah, that was part of the journey, was 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.439 really trying to manage to get in like two separate households, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.080 managing little kids on this. 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:54.960 Journey of fire. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.839 And really trying to make everything work because at the 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.040 same time we're supposed to be saving money and making money. 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.520 So yeah, that was another challenge. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.080 Your thirties are like that decade, and I'm right where 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.680 you guys were eight years ago. So I am listening 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.240 with these big olds, like, tell me what to do, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.280 because this is the time in your life where year 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.080 of responsibilities get bigger. You have the baby, you get 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.520 the house, maybe you get a dog, you get a 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.120 you know, you move to the burbs or whatnot, and 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.720 you start to I feel the pressure of it all, 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.760 you know, the pressure of providing for my child, creating stability. 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.000 And what I love about you guys is that you said, yeah, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.520 we have it. I'm sure you guys had a decent life, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.360 I mean comfortable life. You both had great careers. Christina, 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.400 you went to law school. You also worked for the 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.800 federal government, but you chose to like even aim higher 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.760 at the time when you started to think about retiring 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.480 before forty, Where were you at financially? Were you just 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.440 basic four when k investors? Had you guys already bought 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.280 your properties, Had you had experience in the real estate 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.400 or did y'all start from Okay, let's start getting into 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.280 real estate, because I know that was a cornerstone of 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.120 your investing strategy, right, Yes. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.199 So you know we were doing what most people, well, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.400 I don't say most people. We had the fundamentals in place, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.720 so we had an emergency fund and we were putting 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.600 away about ten to fifteen percent of our income into 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.560 our retirement accounts. But a lot of the pressures that 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:20.160 you talked about. If we were to I guess get 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.200 deeper into some of those pressures, we would have failed 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.400 victim to lifestyle creep. And so what started to happen 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.200 to us in our thirties was that we had to 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.960 make a serious shift. And it was good that we 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.720 had this shift, and I had this moment at work 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.680 when I did, because we were at that point where 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.400 we were going to be starting to make more money. 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.040 A lot of these pressures were going to start to 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.600 pop up with the kids and with our friends, and 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.920 you can really fall victim to those things like getting 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.880 a bigger house, like driving a nicer car, and so 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:57.679 for us at that moment, breaking loose of this consumer 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.760 culture and deciding to live in a smaller house, to 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.000 drive an older car, and then take whatever extra money 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.000 that we started to make and instead prioritize that money 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.160 into our investments. It was definitely a crossroads for us, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.640 and we can definitely attribute our success to making that shift. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.599 Yeah, and I love how you say, Mandy, that you 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.480 know you're sort of at the stage that we were 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.280 eight years ago, right, Because when you're in your thirties, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.079 you start to notice that you're. 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.600 Maybe potentially making more money. 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:28.880 Right. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.400 You may have more responsibilities at your job, you may 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.720 be starting a family, you may be buying a house. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.720 All of these things are sort of coming to fruition. 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.199 Things that you may have wanted in your twenties, you're 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.640 starting to get more and more of them in your thirties. 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.080 And so that is one of the big things I 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:51.959 think for people pursuing fire is really not getting attached 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.000 to or not falling down that whole of lifestyle creep. 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.000 As you start to get more money. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.079 It's not this concept that, oh, you have more money 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.880 so that you can spend more money. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.600 It's this idea that when. 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.760 You're making this more money, you were able to live 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.600 off of less money before. When you make more money, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.280 it doesn't mean that you have to spend more money. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.800 The idea is that you can save that money and 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.640 then invest that money, and then that is starting to 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.679 grow during your fire journey. And you don't even have 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.760 to have the goal of retiring early. It could just 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.440 be that you want to be financially independent so that 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.439 when you get older, money is not. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:26.559 Going to be an issue for you. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.160 You can do whatever type of job makes you happy 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:30.920 and you don't have to think, I can't have this 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:32.880 job because I'm not going to make enough money to. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.560 You know, pay all the bills for my family and 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.920 things like that. So if you have this idea when 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.120 you're in the thirties. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:44.720 Of not falling down that path of lifestyle creep, then 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.080 you're way ahead of the game in terms of where 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:47.800 other people are. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:49.960 Yeah, I just got to get my husband on board 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:50.160 with that. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.720 So there's an African properb that my dad would say 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.840 that you cut your coat according to your size. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.079 You know, that's so many. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.520 People they're like, oh, I'm bigger, now I need a 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.199 bigger coat, or like I'm or they you know what 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.040 I mean. You keep increasing and so it just you're 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.440 keeping the pace of the increase, not realizing like, do 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.800 I really need to continue to increase. I mean, I'm 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.439 a cheapo, so I was like living my cheapest life 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.000 when I was thirty. So I also I lost my 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.679 job then. But one thing I really want to know, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.160 because this is something that I struggled with when I 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.600 was in my early thirties and I was starting my business, 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.640 is like, what do you do for insurance? Because honestly, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.120 back then my insurance was yoga, water and prayer. 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.640 So what do you do for insurance? What do you 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:33.600 do for insurance? 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:35.640 Was it in that order? Tiffany? 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:37.440 First? 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.040 I think you know that is one of the big 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:40.600 things too. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.400 You know, when you are accumulating more things, you have 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.840 to understand that you need insurance in place to protect 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.520 those things. You know that you do not want to 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.640 be in a worst case scenario where something happens and 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.600 you're not insurance. It could be your house, it could 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.840 be health insurance, it could be car insurance, it. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.080 Could any of these. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.440 You know, for you, Tipany if you're starting a business 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.880 having business insurance when you were in your thirties. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.640 But the idea is that insurance is supposed. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.400 To prevent you from losing all of your assets, because 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:18.840 how terrible would it be While you're gaining more money, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.120 you have more assets, and something happens and you're not 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.160 properly insured and then you can lose everything. Like right 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.560 before we fired a mon, we were in the States 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.480 and a mon got just this horrible, horrible food poisoning. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.160 And I'm not just saying like he was throwing up, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.040 he didn't feel well. He was hospitalized for a week. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:40.760 It was. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:42.240 It was awful. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:42.880 It was really bad. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:44.720 I mean, I don't even want to go to how 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.040 bad it was. But it was worst case scenario. And 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.960 thank god we were insured because the hospital bill was insane. 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.200 It was an insane amount of money, and then we 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.680 still had to pay our portion of it. But if 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.440 we had not been insured, and this was right before 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.040 we were firing too, if we would not have been insured, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.440 there would have been a huge impact on our wealth. 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.080 And so I think, you. 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.600 Know, a lot of people when they're younger, they want 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.160 to hope for the best. They think they're healthy. You know, 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.600 they don't need to be insured because nothing's going to happen. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.760 But even here, COVID is a great example of things 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.920 that can happen that are unpredictable, and so you have 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:26.480 to make sure you're properly insured. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.480 Have we mentioned the fact that y'all live in Portugal yet? 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.440 Can we just reiterate that y'all didn't just quit your 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.400 jobs and you know, kick back in the US. You 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.479 were like, no, let's take on a whole new country, Portugal. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.080 Talk to me about especially when it comes to healthcare. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.880 I've watched this video already on your YouTube channel. I've 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.720 watched them all, so I'm just trying to pretend like 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.520 I haven't been stalking y'all for the past three weeks. 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.880 But anyway, talk about the cost of health care in 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.800 Portugal and do you think that you could like, was 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.000 Portugal the key element of why you were able to 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.160 retire early because of the lower cost of living? I 0:16:58.200 --> 0:16:59.840 don't even know if there is a lower cost of living, 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.040 But do you think you would have been able to 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.080 retire early in the US or do you decide to 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.680 go out of the country for those financial reasons? And yeah, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.560 to Tiffany's question about health care costs, how are you 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.200 guys covering your healthcare while in Lisbon? 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.880 Yeah, so I'll go back to kind of when we 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.959 were first calculating our financial independence number, we based it 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.320 off of the location that we planned on retiring in. 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.199 And when we did that calculation, we had identified a 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.359 couple of different numbers based off of different areas in 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.840 the world that we were interested in, but we had 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.159 one big number that was based off of retiring in 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.479 the San Francisco Bay Area because that's our hometown and 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:40.760 we know that our children may eventually want to go 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.320 back to the US, and so we wanted to base 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.119 our number off of the highest number, and as a 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.480 part of that number definitely included healthcare. And I remember 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.520 looking at healthcare plans, and that's one of the things 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.880 that I think holds people back from leaving their jobs, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.960 especially government employees, is the good healthcare. And so for us, 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.399 we had to break from those golden handcuffs by including 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.040 the cost of health care in the US and our 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.040 fire number. And so we you know, we did that. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.560 But while we were on our journey, we stayed the course, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.520 even though we could have left a lot earlier and 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.920 moved to a lower cost of living area. We met 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.280 our San Francisco Bay Area number, but in the end, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.400 we chose we chose Lisbon, and it has been a 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.040 pleasant surprise as far as the cost of healthcare because 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.080 for our family of four, our health care is less 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.200 than two thousand dollars a year. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.920 A year, yes, isn't that crazy? 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.760 In California it would have been a month, right, like. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.320 A you know families. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:48.560 Yeah, hey, let me tell you this though. It's like 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.960 we have been to the hospitals here already too. It's 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.040 like we've gone for the girls have asthma, so they've 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.080 had the minor asthma things that we have to go 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.440 get treated at the hospital. We've even had done to work. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.680 Actually a moan was at the dentist earlier today. So 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.080 Noah has braces. 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.440 But I might get me some braces just because. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.760 But you know, we have had such an incredible experience 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.160 with the healthcare here. I mean there's nothing. We don't 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.600 have any language barriers. When we go to speak to 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.800 the doctors, to the nurses, to the staff, everything is 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.400 so smooth and we just show them our card and 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.280 and sometimes we have a very small copey and other 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:28.520 times it's like, oh, we don't have. 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.360 Anything at all. It's just you walk in and you 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.480 walk out. It is so simple. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:40.159 Yes, wow, my husband works for the Mandy your husband 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.200 works for the city, right, and so does mine. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.280 And that for the federal government. Yeah. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.000 So, and my husband works for the state. Well he 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.240 works for the city, but his pension and everything is 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.360 through his state. And that's been the thing that's been 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.120 like holding like a pensions us because yes, well it's 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.320 not the pension honestly, because I could get like, you know, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.760 we make more than enough that I would. I'm not 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.760 worried about that the pension payout. It's more so his 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.640 insurance is so amazing, especially in the United States, especially 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.120 in the East Coast, because I live in Jersey and 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.160 it's like, ah, he would love to leave any day now, 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.320 but he's got about five more years and it's like 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.480 the cost of health insurance in the United States, it's 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.800 so much so that it's like, bruh, wh need to 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.359 take that with us because you could take it with you. 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.320 So I totally get it. And yeah, but you know, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.240 I don't I wouldn't mind moving to Portugal, but I 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.240 know he wouldn't want to do that. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.439 But yeah, I know so many people have seen our 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.200 channel and we have videos on Portugal now and. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.440 Everyone's like, I never even thought about Portugal. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.520 Now Portugal is at the top of my list and 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.760 we're like man, Portugal is amazing. It's like this hidden secret, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.199 and it's not so hidden anymore. I think more and 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.199 more people are finding out about it. But just I 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.120 mean the healthcare. 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.680 Alone is something to think about because. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.439 Just moving here and having the lifestyle or the pace 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.000 that they have here in Portugal, it's just amazing. 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.919 Well, talk to me about the key for me is 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.879 I mean healthcare. And it's fascinating to hear what you 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.520 guys are spending on healthcare in Portugal versus the US. 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.040 But let's go back again to the early days. What 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.800 were some of the and so when you described how 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:19.960 y'all were saving back then, I think that really resonates 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.480 with me because that's what I had been doing since 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.760 in my early twenties, saving that ten to fifteen percent 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:26.720 and my four oh one K and feeling very smart 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.399 about it. But what was the first step y'all took 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.400 to ratchet up your investments? How did you start investing? 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.320 Did you just max out your four one ks? When 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.399 you max them out? Where did you go from there? 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.240 Can you walk us through like laddering up your investments 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.840 and build and really what it took to build and 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.360 grow your wealth in your thirties, Oh certainly. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.520 So you know, it started with having our fire number 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.280 in place, and then so with that number, we were 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.840 able to kind of figure out what we needed to 0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.000 get to as far as a savings rate in order 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.040 to retire in ten years based off of the returns 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.959 in the market or our returns in real estate. So 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:10.160 with that number in mind, we just tried to get 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.439 our savings rate up, and I'll say that our savings 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.959 rate by the end was as high as seventy percent. 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.359 So we went from saving ten to fifteen all the 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.240 way up to seventy percent. But we didn't do it overnight. 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.639 We just got one percent better as much as we 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.399 could and as soon as we could. So, you know, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.919 if we just were able to lower our bills and 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:36.080 increase our salary, and then that gap grew our savings rate. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.000 And so with that additional money that we were saving 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:44.280 and making, we were prioritizing our investments. And we have 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.200 something called a pay yourself first budget, but it's really 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:52.280 heavy on paying yourself into your investment accounts, and so 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.359 we started with our tax advantage accounts first and putting 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.800 as much money into those accounts because those are the 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:03.359 real accounts that you can really see uh wealth growth 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.840 in because of the because of all the tax incentives 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.919 and tax advantages, and so that was a big priority, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:10.960 was maxing out our tax advantage accounts. 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.040 Now you're talking about your four oh one K your 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.040 I know you guys use an HSA, what a tax 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:18.080 advantage accounts? 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.760 So we we talk about the basically the four accounts 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.400 that we call the four pillars of fire for us 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.159 was the four oh one K, the HSA, and the 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.880 roth IRA. So maxing those out at a minimum was 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.400 was really big for us. And then after that we 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:42.560 moved to basically a regular brokerage account, so just investing 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.359 in Vanguard and investing in low cost ETFs and index 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:51.040 funds at the same time that we were also investing 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.400 in the stock market. We had read all of these 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.480 books on real estate investing and really type people to 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:58.800 read something and then to take action with it. So 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.280 we had gotten all the real estate concepts down as 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:02.800 much as we were going to get them down, and 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.840 then we went to work. So we took an FAHA 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.439 loan and we bought our first house in the San 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:10.719 Fransco b area with three percent down and it was 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:12.800 it was it was a fixer upper, and we did 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:14.960 something called a live and flip where we lived in 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.640 the house, fixed it up, got equity in that home, 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:21.040 and then use that equity to buy other properties and 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.280 with an FAHA loan. That's the that's the best way 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.000 for someone to get started in real estate is doing 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.160 something like a live and flip because after you've lived 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.359 in that home for three years, you can sell that 0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.520 home and keep one hundred percent of your profits up 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.040 to a certain amount depending on if you're married or single. 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.359 And so that was that was a big game changer 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:41.040 for us as well. 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.119 So I think, really, you know, there's there's different ways 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.439 that you can reach financial independence or financial independence and 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:50.840 retire early. So you could do it through investing in 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.399 the stock market. So in the stock market, you know, 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.520 if that is someone's plan, then they absolutely want to 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.600 make sure that they're maxing out their tax advantage accounts 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.440 first because then you're protecting more of your money from 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.440 it being taken away by taxes, and by protecting it more, 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:08.480 then you can allow it to grow more. So the 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.000 idea though is that you have to max out that account, 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.000 but you have to go beyond that. So once you 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.760 max out your tax advantage accounts. Then the idea is 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.159 that you open up a traditional brokerage account and you 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:21.520 start throwing money there as well. So there's one way 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.399 to reach financial independence. But then the other way is 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:28.160 also through real estate. If you want to start investing 0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:31.840 in real estate and putting money into different real estate 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:37.520 real estate properties and creating rentals and creating rental income, 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:39.800 that is another way. Or you can just invest in 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:41.600 real estate and do like what a mon said is 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.399 basically flipping the properties and then eventually selling them and 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.639 taking the profit from that. Or you can do a 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:51.640 combination of real estate and investing in the stock market. 0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:54.840 But it all comes down really to these fundamental pieces. 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.280 When you're pursuing fire, is that the idea is that 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.840 somehow you have to find to try and make more money. 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:05.960 And it could be through getting ah more money through 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:08.320 your salary, or it can be doing different side hustles, 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:10.680 but then it's saving more money and then it's focusing 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.359 on that investment piece as well. 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.119 Y'all. Side hustles. Literally, I get so many giggles out 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.919 of hearing about how you guys found creative ways to 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:21.480 build wealth. First of all, I'm like where do you 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.280 get the energy with two bait? Like two little girls, 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:27.439 and y'all are like what building furniture out of wine 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:33.840 crates and digging through ikeas reduced like returns bins and 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:37.280 like selling flipping furniture online. Talk about how y'all brought 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:39.840 in extra money and like what was the most meaningful 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:42.440 source of extra income y'all created? 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.240 You know, we always talk about this because looking back 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:47.240 on it, we laugh about some of the things that 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.280 we did. But for us, it's weird. When you're on 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:56.320 this journey, it's like your mind like produces income out 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:58.719 of out of nowhere. There's literally money in the streets 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.439 and you just have to go pick it up. So, actually, 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:03.520 someone sent us a message today because one of our 0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:08.960 side hustles was we had Christina was writing tooth fairy 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:12.840 letters on Etsy. She created an Etsy store, and my 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.880 favor it was like it was it was so funny 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:17.560 and when she when she came up with this idea, 0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:20.240 I was like, people really people really buying letters like that. 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:21.280 They're families that do that. 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:22.160 Yeah. 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:24.919 But but someone actually reached out to reached out to 0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:28.040 us today, which is so funny, asking us about you know, 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:28.840 the details of it. 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:29.560 How do you do it? 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:31.480 How are you sending it out? Are you sending it 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:33.679 out already pre packaged? Do you send it out to 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:35.399 the parent or to the child? So it was so 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.400 interesting because you know, people are interested in finding these 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:40.520 new ways to make money, and so I just thought, 0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:43.040 you know, this is a creative thing. But like you said, 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:47.080 we we uh, we're not too shy to go dumpster diving. 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:49.320 We did that at one point, and I'll tell you 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.080 the specific specifics of that. 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.520 We were driving around in Oakland, which is in the 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:58.600 San Francisco Bay area, and we drove past this huge 0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:01.960 dumpster and it had all of these, I don't guess, 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.159 not brand new wine crates, but it had all of 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:06.800 these wine crates in them, and they were so beautiful. 0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:08.320 It's like these wine boxes wood. 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.000 Yes, And there was a liquor store that had dumped 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:15.440 them all out into this garb, into this dumpster getting 0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:17.560 rid of them. And we went into the to the 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.560 liquor store and we said, are you dumping these? Are 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:21.840 you you don't want these? Can we have them? 0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:25.000 And so they said yes, So we filled. 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:28.119 Up our car with so many wine boxes and then 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:30.640 we took them home in our garage was just piled 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:33.240 full of wine boxes and we ended up selling those. 0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:35.840 We got them for free, and we ended up selling 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:39.200 them on like Facebook and Craigslist, and people were just 0:28:39.320 --> 0:28:42.200 it was so easy to sell because people thought they 0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.000 were really beautiful wine boxes and they couldn't find them anywhere, 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:46.719 and people were willing to pay us for that. 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:47.480 Yeah. 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:49.800 I was like a bougie broke hipster ten years ago 0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:52.600 living in Queens with my boyfriend at the time, my husband. Now, 0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:55.200 we were the dumb dumbs. Not the dumb dumbs. We 0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.840 were the ones buying wine, trying to find wine crates 0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:00.720 on Craigslist and begging liquors or was to give them 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.560 to us. Y'all stumbled upon a little jackpot right there. 0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:04.800 I was like, oh, I would love that. 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:06.120 Yeah, we did that. 0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:08.560 I mean we also, like Aman said, we had flipped 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.120 our properties. So one of the things we found at Ikea, 0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:14.680 which is I feel like Ikeas everywhere, I mean there's 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:17.760 even an Ikea. There's like five Ikeas in Portugal here, 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:21.240 but in Ikea they have this as is section. So 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.880 that was another one of our side hustles. We discovered this. 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.120 I'm not saying like we are the only ones who've 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:29.560 discovered it. But we discovered that you can buy these 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:33.920 items in the as is section and they're anywhere. 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:35.040 I mean, you can get things for. 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:38.080 Ninety percent off of yes, up to ninety percent off, 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.040 or if they're you know, if they're no longer having 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:45.280 a certain product, like an entire free or entire kitchen display, 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:47.920 you can get for up to ninety percent off. So 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:51.800 we started buying these really nice items in Ikea and 0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:53.160 reselling those all sets. 0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:55.880 That's what we had a niche. How our niche was kitchen. 0:29:56.640 --> 0:30:00.000 It was basically like kitchen construction material, so the cabinet's, 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.080 the countertops, refrigerators, hoods, all of these different things. When 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:07.840 Ikia changes out its kitchens in the showroom, they would 0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:10.920 put their entire kitchen down into the as this section 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.600 and we'd be waiting for it, pick it right up. 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:16.960 It was ninety percent off, and you can resell this 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:21.320 stuff and make a lot of money. My kids hate 0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:23.080 Ikea now because I was taking them in there all 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:27.080 the time. And this is a side thing, but every Wednesday, 0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:30.560 kids eat free at Ikea, so we were there every Wednesday. 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:35.080 They're probably thinking those meatballs, but I know I lived 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:37.240 up that if I furnished my whole first apartment was 0:30:37.280 --> 0:30:38.560 the Ikea as a section. 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:41.120 I was like, oh, no, we will have qute things, 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:42.280 but cute things on a budget. 0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:43.720 So I feel, you I never thought about this. 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:46.880 I am a victim of lifestyle creep. I'll fess up 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:49.720 to it. We bought our house and it was West 0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:54.080 Elm all the way y'all, And I feel foolish, but 0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:57.120 it's true. We did West Elm, And like Creighton Barrel, 0:30:57.160 --> 0:31:00.000 you want to have nice stuff. And I always can 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.120 considered myself to be you know, I mean, I've been 0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:05.160 doing personal finance for over a decade, and I you know, 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:08.640 I know better, but the allure of just being comfortable 0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:11.920 and having nice things, especially for people who you know, 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:15.200 for me personally, coming from family, we weren't like super poor, 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:17.880 but we didn't have like really nice stuff. And you know, 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:20.720 you want to you want to like enjoy the fruits 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:24.200 of your your hard work, and that felt like a 0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:27.680 way of acknowledging the hard work and about you know, 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.920 investing in our own comfort. But I'm a little surprised, 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:34.479 you know, two years out from that renovation, where I'm thinking, 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:36.840 you know, was that the best way to celebrate our 0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:42.320 you know, our success, like giving another company all this money, 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.520 you know, like there's probably other ways. So I'm I'm 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.680 thinking so much about some of the choices I've made 0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:51.200 and how emotions play into that, you know, especially as 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.560 you're starting to build and build a family and earn 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:55.400 more in your thirties. 0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:58.880 Like y'all said, yeah, I know, I think definitely there's 0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:01.720 this idea that and Aman and I talk about it 0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:05.400 a lot. Actually, it's like you can make short term 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:09.000 sacrifices for long term gains. And that's really how we 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:11.600 thought about it. When we're thinking about or even if 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.200 you're thinking about how much it costs to do X, 0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:17.880 Y or z, converting that into hours of work, right, 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.040 it's like, would you put that many hours of work 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:21.520 so that you could have this or so that you 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:24.400 could do something or do that? And so that's an 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:28.600 interesting way to start to think about it. But also realizing, 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:30.280 you know, what is in your future, what do you 0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:33.280 look for, what do you look forward to the most 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:37.120 in the future, and really thinking about it at that way, 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:39.920 thinking that you know, if I if I maybe don't 0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:42.360 spend my money in this area, or if I cut 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:46.000 back in this area. It may be a little hard initially, 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:49.239 but if you're looking at the long term results, what 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.040 you can get in return for maybe not buying the 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.200 big TV or the new car or something like that, 0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:59.840 then you can start really pursuing fire in a meaningful 0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:03.320 way where you're really focused on cutting out expenses, not 0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:05.680 buying big expenses, and really trying to make more in 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:07.640 funnel towards your investments. 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:43.480 Y'all didn't just focus on cutting cutting cutting expenses. Y'all 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:47.000 still took time and you invested in experiences that meant 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.120 a lot to y'all. Could you talk about how you 0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:52.800 balanced experiences and things that you would continue to splurge 0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:55.600 on and then balance that with your mission to save 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:56.480 as much as you could. 0:33:57.080 --> 0:33:57.360 Yeah. 0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:01.960 I would say one of our biggest expences in terms 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:03.840 of what we cut that we really wanted to do 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:06.440 that we're able to figure it out, was traveling. Like 0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:11.160 we lived in Spain, we lived in Japan, we now 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:12.239 live in Portugal. 0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:15.840 We traveled to Hawaii a lot. Among's brother lives in Hawaii. 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:19.239 So we were definitely a huge travel family and that 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:21.600 was very important to us and we really didn't want 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:24.080 to give that up. But it can be expensive for 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:28.440 a family of four traveling abroad all the time or Hawaii. 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:29.400 And making these trips. 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:33.080 And so we figured out travel hacking where we would 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:37.360 take out credit cards and we would use the bonus 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.880 points for the credit cards by taking them out, and 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:43.960 we would use them for hotel stays and for airfare, 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:47.120 and we were able to start traveling for free. Now, 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:50.920 I would say though, that this travel hacking concept is 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:54.239 absolutely not for everyone. I mean, you have to understand 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:56.439 how credit works. You have to start off with good 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:58.759 credit and maintain good credit, and don't go in this 0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.360 rabbit hole where you're just trying to spend money on 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:03.680 your credit card so that you can get the points. 0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.080 It doesn't work like that. There's a it's a bit 0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:09.160 more nuanced than that. So it's not for everyone, but 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.280 for us. For Aman and I, we had excellent credit. 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.200 We never had any debt on our credit cards. We 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:18.720 always paid our credit card off in full every single month, 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:22.040 and so by figuring out travel hacking, we were able 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.839 to continue to travel the world and still enjoy all 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:27.680 of the different things we could by traveling, but we 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:28.640 got to do it for free. 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.000 Oh yeah, Tif and I love to talk about what 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.600 how to not you know, fall into that to that 0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:37.440 black hole of credit card spending just to get some points. 0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:41.080 Yeah. Absolutely, So the struggle that I have is not 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:45.520 it's not the living frugally got that you know. And 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:49.680 so but did you ever feel like are we over sacrificing, 0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:53.319 because that is something that I struggle with that I 0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:57.520 sometimes struggle with the enjoying on the other side. And 0:35:57.600 --> 0:35:59.239 so do you ever feel like, you know, you were 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:03.120 oversackled sacrificing And if so, how did you manage that 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.200 or if not, how did you avoid that? 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:08.360 Yeah? I think that for us, we didn't feel like 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:11.839 we were over sacrificing because we built in things on 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:13.880 our journey so that we could enjoy things. So, like 0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:16.160 I said, we did traveling. We traveled quite a lot, 0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:18.319 and we also this is something that we didn't save 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:20.400 any money on, but we still did it. We were 0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:23.319 from the We're from Oakland, like I said, and we 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:26.319 went to a lot of warrior games and we didn't 0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:28.680 get the nosebleed seats. We were sitting you know, I 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:31.560 wouldn't say on the floor, but maybe five rows back 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:34.120 off of the floor. So that was one of the 0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:36.600 expenses that we splurged on when we were in Oakland. 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:40.759 But I like to tell people a lot that you 0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:45.000 should you should enjoy the journey. You should enjoy your 0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:49.320 journey towards fire, because sometimes it's not all just about 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.000 that destination of being able to retire. Right If you're 0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:55.800 miserable on your journey, you're not spending a single time 0:36:55.960 --> 0:37:00.759 doing anything. You are are you know, not going out 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:03.400 with your friends, or you're not doing anything with anyone 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:07.320 your family members. It's a miserable journey and it's not sustainable. 0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.319 So you have to you have to figure out what 0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:12.920 the right balance is for you. So we're not I 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:16.840 wouldn't encourage everyone to just you know, count every single 0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:21.440 penny and live in a way where they're just not 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:23.040 able to enjoy anything. 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.000 Yeah, And I think this is a this is a 0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.560 misconception about the Fire movement, is that the people that 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:32.520 are on this journey are eating beans and sacrifice and 0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:34.960 they don't have cable or Netflix, you know, they don't 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:39.600 go anywhere. That's that's absolutely not true. To do this, 0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:43.440 you have to just find creative ways to enjoy yourself 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.560 and you have to figure out a way to make 0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:49.360 more money. That's the other side of the equation, preach 0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:52.399 on it. Say it again that I wish the Fire 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:54.480 movement talk more about is you have to get out 0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:57.640 there and if you're in your thirties, twenties, if you're forties, fifties, 0:37:57.760 --> 0:38:01.640 you have to get on the grind liked. People would 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:04.000 say to us, how do you how are you able 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:06.799 to do this with kids? You're in law school. It's like, 0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:09.799 we don't know anything else but this. So we didn't 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:13.200 set a low bar. We set a high bar and 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:17.879 that's all we knew. So for us, we don't define, 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:21.160 you know, our journey in any particular way. It's just 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:23.600 it is what it is. That's why we called our 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:27.920 YouTube channel our Rich Journey, because this is this is 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.880 how we live our life. When people find out what 0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:35.120 our budget is here in Portugal, we live pretty luxuriously. 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.839 You know. We spend four thousand dollars a month here 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.680 in Portugal. And you know, for some people they say, 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:43.840 oh my god, that's too much, or some people say, 0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:47.359 oh that's not enough. But it's relative and I think 0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:49.640 anyone that's on this journey, they have to figure out 0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:53.359 a way to do it relatively well so that they 0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:57.440 enjoy themselves. Someone reached out to me today and they said, 0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:00.359 you know, we're on this journey and we're wondering whether 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:03.680 or not we should start to cut some of the 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:07.799 activities for our children. And I immediately thought, no, why 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:12.279 would you. No, don't do that. Don't sacrifice your child's childhood. 0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:16.440 You know, for this journey. Figure out different ways to 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:20.520 approach the problem, you know. So that's what we did 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:23.200 on our journey. We would we would encounter a problem 0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:27.759 like childcare, like travel, like owning a home, and we 0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:30.279 would just figure out a way to get through the 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:32.960 challenge or over or around it. But we never we 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:34.320 never let it stop us. 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:36.759 Yeah, I mean your girls were in basketball, you said 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:40.280 they do swimming like you've never You've always encouraged those hobbies. 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:42.600 I mean, now they're YouTube stars, so it's not going 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:45.840 to be their new hobby. But before we let y'all go, 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:47.959 we have I really want to talk to y'all about 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:51.399 your investing philosophy and how you are weathering because your 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:54.560 investments are mostly still in the US, right, Yes, so 0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:56.719 talk to us about because I know people listening right now. 0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.799 I mean, let's not let's let's not men's words here. 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:02.600 Like we are. We're the US is being crippled by 0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:05.160 this current pandemic and economic crisis. I mean, we have 0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.480 what tens of millions of Americans out of work. My 0:40:08.560 --> 0:40:12.239 own fathers is still laid off. Congress can't get their 0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:16.560 act together with these stimulus checks and federal you know, 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:19.640 unemployment benefits are in limbo right now. So there's people 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:23.560 out there who are truly, truly hurting. And even people 0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:25.600 who have been doing it quote unquote the right way 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:27.520 and investing in their four one k have seen their 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:32.040 four one ks you know, take dips this year. So y'all, 0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:34.520 y'all have retired. What do you say to people who 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:36.799 are feeling like, oh shit, like is this the right 0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:39.400 time to be putting money in the market, and how like, 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:43.160 how can we trust that things will work out? Talk 0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:45.560 to us about your approach to investing right now in 0:40:45.600 --> 0:40:48.279 this moment, you know, how you're weathering what's happening in 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:50.880 the US, even though you're in Portugal now. And what 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:53.680 do you say to people who are feeling a little 0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:56.319 gun shy about getting into the market now? 0:40:57.000 --> 0:40:59.120 Yeah, well, you know, that's that's a great question. And 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:04.160 I always tell people this, don't invest money that you 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:06.480 that you need to live off of every day. So 0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:10.000 before you even buy your first investment, you should have 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:13.080 the fundamentals in place. You should have your credit paid 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:16.319 down and emergency fund in place, and then you can 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:20.400 start investing in the stock market. Because when you invest 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:23.279 in the stock market, you shouldn't need that money in 0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:25.520 the next five to ten years. This is this is 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:29.360 long term money. You shouldn't want this money for decades. 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:33.840 So what's happening right now? It is. It is completely awful, 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:37.080 you know, but if you have a plan in place, 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.799 this should not distract you. If it's not taking away 0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:43.080 from your income. If you still have your income and 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:45.560 you still have the ability to invest, you should be 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:49.440 investing that money. Don't get consumed by what's going on 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.640 in the world. Yes you should should you should definitely 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.719 be involved in it socially and politically. But if you 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:01.480 have your investments on cruise control, then money should be 0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:03.120 the least of your worries right now. You should just 0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:06.480 let that money ride. So I always say that, you know, 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:08.440 once you have those fundamental things in place, and you 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:12.080 have your investments on cruise control, then you can focus 0:42:12.160 --> 0:42:13.200 on everyday life. 0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:16.799 Yeah, and I would also say, you know, when you 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:20.840 think about the stock market, it seems so backwards because 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:24.920 when the stock market plummets, a lot of people are 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:29.000 pulling their investments out because they're afraid that they're going 0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:31.520 to lose all of their money. So it's like, let 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:33.759 me get let me get my investments out. I'm going 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.560 to take the loss, but it's better than not having 0:42:36.600 --> 0:42:40.240 any money at all. And then then the stock market 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:42.480 ultimately goes back up, and then if they would have 0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:45.240 just left their money in, they would have been better 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.480 off in the long run. It's almost like you sort 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:50.520 of have to go against the herd mentality when it 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:54.400 comes to the stock market because once you once you 0:42:55.000 --> 0:42:58.560 learn more about the stock market and understand the history 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:00.600 of the stock market. And this is not to stay 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.040 that the history of the stock market will predict the 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:07.400 future of the stock market, but historically, since forever, the 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:11.080 stock market has always ultimately gone up. And so when 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:13.600 people are thinking, I don't know if I should invest 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:16.759 right now because the stock market just dropped something like that, 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:18.680 or maybe I should pull my money out because I'm 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:20.520 losing money and I don't want to lose it all, 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:24.680 the idea should really be if the stock market has 0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:29.919 historically always gone up, then when the stock market goes 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:34.040 down is an excellent time to invest. Is an excellent 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:36.960 time if you have any money, to throw your money 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:39.920 into the stock market when it's down, because when it 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:44.720 ultimately goes up, then you are then you're you're making 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:46.200 money and you're getting a return on that. 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:46.879 And the same thing. 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:48.440 If your money is in there and you keep it 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:51.239 in there rather than sell it and it ultimately goes up, 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.680 then your portfolio is worth more. 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.080 But I think, Mandy, you want to know what we're 0:43:57.120 --> 0:44:00.560 doing right. You want to know how we're weathering this storm, 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.279 and I think I think a lot of people have 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:10.000 that question. But when we first started our plan, we 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:16.520 devised a plan that involved front loading our investments into 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:21.640 very aggressive index funds, so technology and total stock market 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:24.120 index funds. And then as we got towards the latter 0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:27.000 half of our journey, we started to build up what's 0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:30.040 called the stock market Emergency Fund for dips like this 0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:35.080 that was over two years worth of living expenses in 0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:37.200 case the stock market were to drop and we would 0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:39.600 have to make that switch from not pulling from the 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.719 stock market, because you don't want to pull from the 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:44.719 stock market when it drops and instead pull from our 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:48.880 stock market emergency fund. And so when March hit and 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:53.200 the stock market crashed, we thought, okay, are we going 0:44:53.280 --> 0:44:56.880 to have to make that switch? But two three months later, 0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:01.160 the stock market has fully recovered. So this is this 0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:05.960 is the the I mean, this is the thing about investing. 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:08.120 When you have a plan in place, you already know 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:12.640 what to do before it happens. But what we've found 0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:15.640 is that we haven't had to even rely on some 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:20.719 of those contingencies because the stock market has always recovered. 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:25.040 And I always say this on our YouTube channel. You know, 0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:27.239 the stock market's going to go up and down, but 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:30.240 in the end, it's going to go up. It always has. 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:32.880 And I will say also, you know, just to piggyback 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:35.120 off of what Aman said. With that crash in March 0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.560 twenty March twenty twenty, there were a lot of people 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:41.839 at that time they were selling out their portfolios because 0:45:41.840 --> 0:45:44.080 they didn't want to take any more of a loss. 0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:48.200 And on our channel, we actually created a new portfolio, 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:52.280 just sort of a very many portfolio to show people listen, 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:55.960 if you invest now, it's a good it's a good thing. 0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:58.880 You can start growing your money by investing now. It 0:45:58.880 --> 0:46:01.640 doesn't matter that they're was a huge crash. You can 0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:02.800 start investing now. 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:04.520 And so many. 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:06.640 People were like, why would you invest now, it's a crash, 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:08.440 it's the worst time to invest, And we're like, no, 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.880 that's the very opposite of how you should be thinking. 0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:14.120 You know, you should continuously be investing whether it's a 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.000 good whether the market's doing well or whether it's doing bad. 0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:19.600 You should just be dollar cost averaging into the market. 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:22.359 But when the market is doing bad, it is an 0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:24.120 excellent opportunity to. 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:25.160 Grow your wealth. 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:28.120 And so that's what we're really demonstrating with this portfolio 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:31.240 to our followers is like, listen, when people are running 0:46:31.520 --> 0:46:33.840 and trying to cash out their portfolios when there's a 0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:37.880 big crash, don't do that. Do the opposite. Do the 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:39.760 opposite and start building your wealth. 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:42.880 I think y'all really illustrate beautifully the power of the 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:46.200 mindset when it comes to building wealth, Like you've got 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:48.960 to really you've got to look at your emotions, as 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:51.719 my lovely therapist always says, look at the thought or 0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:54.520 the feeling and just acknowledge that it exists, and then 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:58.640 just attack it with reason and logic. And I love that, y'all. 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:01.040 I've been following that is that, y'all, where you share 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:03.080 your portfolio and how you invest at the bottom of 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:04.960 the market or at least you know, you never know 0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:06.840 when it's the bottom, but how you guys invested in 0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:09.120 the spring and I and I love that lesson. I 0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:11.239 just think people have to be ready for it and 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:13.120 really want to. I want to home in on the 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.279 point that y'all made too about that emergency fund. And 0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:16.719 just to be clear, when you say it's a stock 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:19.520 stock market emergency fund, you don't have the money in 0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:22.160 the stock market. It's your emergency fund, so that you 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:26.120 don't touch your money, yes, just cash, right, regular old Yeah. 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:29.279 So that's key because you know, people think that like 0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:31.520 if you're if you're worried about losing everything when a 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:34.200 market goes down, then you're probably not investing money that 0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:37.000 you're willing to put away for the long term, like 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:39.399 your money that you want to hold with your money 0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:41.160 that you want to be able to access if an 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.040 emergency happens. That should be really, it should be liquid, 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:46.600 it should be available to you. It should be enough 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:49.560 for the you know, for whatever a period of time 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:52.240 you feel comfortable with you guys, two years seems reasonable 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:57.560 because y'all are you know, you're you're entirely without you know, well, 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:00.759 you have your passive income, but you've left, you've left 0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.440 your jobs, and you're living your fire lifestyle. But for 0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:06.120 other people maybe at six months or year's worth of expenses. 0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:08.880 And I love that y'all have that cushion because it 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.640 helps you kind of like stamp down those emotional fears 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:14.839 around when the market dips, like oh no, I've got 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:17.600 to take my money out because I don't want to 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:19.080 lose it, because we need to have food on the 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:23.200 table with that emergency fund, y'all, you provide a cushion 0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:25.680 for yourself, and you provide the security that you can 0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:28.759 continue with your investing strategy, continue building your wealth, and 0:48:28.760 --> 0:48:31.680 you don't need to sacrifice that when your emotions start 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.640 to take over. I think that's a really important point 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.359 for people, and that's why we're always like, before y'all 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:39.520 start asking about investing, I'm talking to my dad and 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:41.799 my uncle Mark. He will call me all the time, 0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:43.279 what about hurts? Should we invest in. 0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:46.520 Bankrupt Yes? 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.279 Oh my god, I'm like, listen if my uncle Mark 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:51.920 is talking about it. Do not do that. Don't go 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:55.279 to Hurts. But my dad he still saves money in 0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:57.480 his coat closet. I'm like, you trying to talk about 0:48:57.480 --> 0:48:59.360 investing in Hurts. Can I get you to put some 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:02.760 money in the bank? First? Is so backwards? Go ahead? 0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:05.520 No, and no shade to the people who listen. 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:08.080 But if you're willing to do the blessing loom, that's 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:08.960 not a blessing. 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:11.000 I think you can try this. 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:13.399 That's a little shady because so many of my dream 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:14.520 catchers are like, girl, I want. 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:16.720 To do a blessing loom. It's not a blessing loom. 0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:18.680 I've never heard enough before. 0:49:18.920 --> 0:49:20.120 You never heard of the blessing loom? 0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:21.400 Quits quick sidebar? 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:21.800 What is that? 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:22.600 No? 0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:25.239 We talked about it on the podcast, Remember I said, 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:28.600 it's it's basically the pyramid scheme, but they keep renaming 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:31.160 it blessing loom. Pyramid scheme where you bring more people 0:49:31.160 --> 0:49:33.000 in and they bring money, and then you move to 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:35.839 the center or to the top and they see yeah, 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:37.880 but they just keep calling it new things. But I 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:39.719 did want to ask, like what because I want to 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:42.319 get just a little nitty gritty, like what percentage are 0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:45.120 you living off? Of are you doing it where you're 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.640 anticipating like on average is seven to eight percent return 0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:51.040 and you're living off four percent of your of what 0:49:51.120 --> 0:49:54.560 your investments yield or is it more so you're living 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:58.439 off you if you have rental properties or is it? 0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:02.000 And then two, like what was your fire number? Because 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:05.120 I know, like my financial advisor, my financial planner, you know, 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:08.319 I mean, I guess technically I don't have to work now, 0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:10.560 I guess. I mean, I just like I like doing 0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:14.080 budget Nista, but I my husband and I help out 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:17.720 a lot of people. So what we spend a month 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.759 is like half of what we spend actually goes to 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:23.160 us and just the rest goes to helping family and friends. 0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:24.640 But so like, what's that? 0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:25.960 What was that number for you? 0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:28.440 Like, it's we set aside this amount plus with the 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:30.200 real estate coming in, we should be good. 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:31.319 I'm curious about that. 0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:34.480 Yeah, so we don't have the real estate anymore. 0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:36.560 Okay, we sold our real estate and then we put 0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:40.040 that in the stock market. But our fire number was 0:50:40.080 --> 0:50:42.839 based off of living in the San Francisco Bay area. 0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:46.000 So I'll caveat with that caveat that that our number 0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:48.840 was over two million, close to two and a half million, 0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:52.320 But again this is because we live in the sand. 0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:55.719 Our fire number was based off of living in the 0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.800 San Francisco Bay area. So some people will probably think 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:01.040 that that can be very very high, or some people 0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:02.960 actually think like, maybe that's low. 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:05.600 So it's really relative to where. 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:08.200 You plan on retiring, where you live, what your family 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:11.200 size is, and what type of stuff you plan on 0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:14.120 doing in retirement, and how much is that stuff going 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:16.320 to cost. So ours was close to two and a 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:20.000 half million dollars, but I will say because we moved 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:25.160 to Portugal, we are living off of obviously not close 0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:28.440 to that, because when you calculate your fire number, the 0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:30.880 ideas that you can live off of four percent of 0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:35.239 your portfolio in order to cover your monthly expenses and 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:38.400 then in turn your annual expenses. So the idea is 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:41.440 that you can pull four percent from your portfolio, and 0:51:41.480 --> 0:51:45.359 then your portfolio could continue to grow so that you're 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:48.560 only pulling from the gains in your portfolio. You're not 0:51:48.640 --> 0:51:51.920 actually pulling from the principal balance, so it continues to 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:54.600 grow and you're able to continuously pull out four percent. 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:57.680 And that's based off of there's a study called the 0:51:57.680 --> 0:52:01.279 Trinity Study that really explains this cont of the four 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:04.160 percent rule, how you can live off of your portfolio 0:52:04.280 --> 0:52:08.120 and the portfolio allocation that you have, whether it's stocks 0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:10.960 and bonds or one hundred percent stocks one hundred percent bonds. 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:13.920 But the concept is once you get your fire number, 0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:16.080 you're supposed to be able to live off of four 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:19.440 percent of that and pull money from your portfolio, and 0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:20.960 that pays for all of your expenses. 0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:23.319 But we are here in Portugal and our. 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:25.759 Expenses are much much lower, like we said, I mean, 0:52:25.760 --> 0:52:29.520 we gave you the example of the healthcare how much 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:32.239 cheaper it is, or i'd say how much more affordable 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:34.959 it is here in Portugal. So for us, we don't 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:38.240 have to pull a full four percent. We pull under 0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:40.800 four percent. And if you ever are in a situation 0:52:40.840 --> 0:52:43.120 where you're pulling less than four percent, then it's even 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:48.400 better because then your portfolio can continue to grow even more. 0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:50.319 So the idea is if you're able to pull less 0:52:50.320 --> 0:52:52.600 than four percent, it can grow even more. 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:54.160 And so that's a perfect situation. 0:52:54.680 --> 0:52:59.120 But I would say for people that have different locations 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:01.919 in mind. For example, like we said, we were thinking 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:04.279 about the San Francisco Bay area and we were thinking 0:53:04.320 --> 0:53:05.120 about Portugal. 0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:07.040 For us, it was really. 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:10.360 Important to not retire until we hit the mark for 0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:12.840 the higher cost of living, which is the San Francisco 0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:13.320 Bay Area. 0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:16.280 And again that's because if we come. 0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:19.080 Here to Portugal and we decide, you know, four or 0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:21.719 five years down the road, we want to return to 0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.160 the Bay Area, or you know, our girls will be 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:26.680 going away to school soon, not soon soon to me, 0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:30.440 but you know in another four and six years if 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:32.920 they returned to the States, maybe at that time we'll think, oh, 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:34.960 we should return with them, or maybe we want to 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.040 live back in the States. If we would have picked 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:40.600 a fire number associated with living in Portugal, then we 0:53:40.719 --> 0:53:43.400 would be stuck. We would be limited in terms of 0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:45.880 where we can go after that. So for people that 0:53:46.080 --> 0:53:50.320 have multiple areas in mind, I would recommend picking the 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:53.319 higher cost of living area, and then when you go 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:56.000 live in a lower cost of area, you're pulling less 0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:58.160 than that four percent and your portfolio is able to 0:53:58.200 --> 0:53:59.520 grow even more because of it. 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:34.160 Now I wanted to know, because you guys have your 0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:36.239 YouTube channel, I know you have a course now in 0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:39.520 stock investing. When y'all were planning, you know, sources of 0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:43.400 income or planning your portfolio and hitting your fire number. 0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:47.000 Did y'all think, okay, we'll also bring in income from 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:48.880 our YouTube and maybe we can teach people and have 0:54:48.920 --> 0:54:52.360 a course. Was that part of your plan or was 0:54:52.400 --> 0:54:54.600 this just like a happenstance, Because it doesn't strike me 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:56.840 that you guys set out, because that's honestly one of 0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:58.799 the things that kind of annoys me about some fire. 0:54:58.840 --> 0:55:01.040 I'll just be totally frank. Christina knows I can be, 0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:03.759 but like, yeah, I mean I kind of roll my 0:55:03.840 --> 0:55:05.759 eyes sometimes because people are like, oh, yeah, I'm going 0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:07.440 to retire early. Then I'm going to teach people how 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:08.800 to do it, and that's how I'm going to retire 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:11.680 early by making money off of the courses. But y'all 0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.040 strike me as totally different, whereas it's kind of a 0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:16.360 you know, you did your fire thing and then people 0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:18.279 were asking you to start a channel, and you did it, 0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:20.680 and now you just happened to be YouTube stars. 0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:21.560 Yeah. 0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:24.239 I love that you asked that, because you know, right 0:55:24.280 --> 0:55:28.240 now we have we have almost three hundred thousand subscribers 0:55:28.320 --> 0:55:29.000 on our channel. 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:33.400 But when we started, we started a little over two years. 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:37.359 Ago and it was the lowest start ever and when 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:40.720 when we actually retired. I don't think we had even 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:45.680 hit fifty thousand subscribers at that point. And so for us, 0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:47.960 when we started the channel, it was more like a 0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:50.280 friend had mentioned it to us because we were talking. 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:54.000 We were always talking to family members and friends about listen, 0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:56.239 you guys should be doing this, you should save this money. 0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:58.240 I mean, we were sort of getting a little extra 0:55:58.280 --> 0:56:00.880 into people's business, saying hey, why don't you invest in this? 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:02.160 You should say this, you do it. 0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:05.920 But it just became something that we talked about so 0:56:06.080 --> 0:56:07.680 much that one of our friends said, hey, you should 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:09.960 start this channel, and we thought, well, that is pretty 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:13.800 cool because then we could tell people about fire, like. 0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:15.520 Like when we didn't know what fire was when we started. 0:56:15.520 --> 0:56:17.440 If someone was sort of guiding us and telling us 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:20.680 about all these concepts, that would be really cool. So 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:24.440 we started the channel, and we we absolutely did not 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:27.000 think that our channel would grow like it was. So 0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:29.600 it was definitely not something where we're like, oh, yeah, 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:31.120 we can we can rely. 0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:31.840 On YouTube and. 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:36.359 Just retire early and live off of YouTube or something 0:56:36.440 --> 0:56:37.040 like that. 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:38.960 That was definitely not the case. 0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:42.200 Oh yeah, and it became it became kind of like 0:56:42.840 --> 0:56:45.520 a gift that we couldn't give up. And when I 0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:48.200 say a gift is we have this ability to be 0:56:48.239 --> 0:56:52.840 able to really share and inspire people with our YouTube channel. 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:55.480 So when we start our YouTube channel, we were doing 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:57.279 it like two or three times a week, but since 0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:00.480 we retired, really do it once a week. But it's 0:57:00.480 --> 0:57:02.799 something that we want to keep doing because so many 0:57:02.840 --> 0:57:06.319 people are getting getting value out of it. But what 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:10.120 happened was because we made so many videos, people were 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:14.040 asking us like questions that were there were very linear 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:16.640 questions like how to get to a to z and 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:18.120 we would say, oh, you got to go back to 0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:22.360 video one hundred or video fifty five, and so we 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.920 were like, okay, we need to do like a course 0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:27.920 they walk someone from a to z. And so that's 0:57:27.920 --> 0:57:29.800 when we came up with the idea for the course. 0:57:30.880 --> 0:57:33.000 But it was, you know, all of this was just 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:36.920 it just it just kind of started to happen because 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:39.000 we were being asked to do these things. 0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:41.360 Yeah, but I will also say that, you know, people 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:43.160 have been asking us for a while to do the 0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:45.360 course and we're like, yeah, you know, maybe maybe we'll 0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:48.000 get around to it. But what really prompted us to 0:57:48.040 --> 0:57:51.480 do the course was COVID. Yes, because we were stuck 0:57:51.560 --> 0:57:55.120 in the house for over over and over a month. 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:57.360 Oh yes, if you see that course, my hair was 0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:59.360 looking raggedy the whole course. 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:04.400 I know it's not as bad compared to people some 0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:06.560 people in the States, right, but yeah, we were just 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:09.520 getting fidgety, like, oh my gosh, we cannot. 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:11.120 Just sit in this house and do nothing. 0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:14.080 And we were telling people, you know, go out and exercise, 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:17.120 go out and read or exercise in your home, read, write, 0:58:17.200 --> 0:58:20.120 do what you can to stay productive. Don't try and 0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:22.880 be busy, because busy is just sort of taking up time. 0:58:23.160 --> 0:58:24.560 What can you do to be productive? 0:58:24.640 --> 0:58:26.360 And then we thought, you know what, why don't we 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:29.200 just sit down and really focus on creating this course? 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:33.760 And I think, you know, because we had that extra time, 0:58:33.840 --> 0:58:36.160 it was it was really a fun project to be 0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:36.800 able to do. 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:41.800 I mean, y'all are so young, you're clearly incredibly intelligent. 0:58:43.040 --> 0:58:47.600 You guys have so much, so much energy, Like, so, 0:58:47.680 --> 0:58:49.560 what does retirement look like for y'all? Can you kind 0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:52.480 of paint the picture? You know, do you see yourselves 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:55.800 kicking back on beaches? Like what does your retirement look like? 0:58:55.840 --> 0:58:59.600 Do you think you'll be satisfied, you know, with with 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.280 obviously you you know, sitting back in the house is 0:59:03.600 --> 0:59:06.160 not what you're excited about. I think those of us 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:08.360 in quarantine are all just like, get us out of here. 0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:11.080 But talk about how do y'all plan on spending your 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:13.840 retirement with the next fifty years ahead of you. 0:59:15.000 --> 0:59:16.439 Oh, we spend a lot of time at the beach. 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:21.280 Don't don't don't knock that. That's really nice, sou And 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:23.400 that's one of the nice things about living here in 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:26.000 Portugal is that we're near the water. The outdoors are 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:29.439 really amazing, so we do spend a lot of time 0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:33.360 in the outdoors. We wanted to retire early. A big 0:59:33.400 --> 0:59:35.840 reason was so that we could spend more time with 0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:39.120 our girls. You know, after your children leave your house, 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:43.000 you have already spent ninety percent of the time you're 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:44.920 going to spend with them while they're in your house. 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:47.480 After that, they're gone and they're you know, they're going 0:59:47.520 --> 0:59:50.000 to live their lives. So that's a gift that we 0:59:50.040 --> 0:59:51.720 also have, is that we get to spend more time 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:54.360 with our kids. We get to coach our daughters in sports. 0:59:54.480 --> 0:59:58.480 Christina swims with Malia, I play basketball with Sona we 0:59:58.560 --> 1:00:04.680 volunteer a lot. Recently, we've been doing calls with underserved 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.600 kids talking about financial independence, talking about talking about money 1:00:08.640 --> 1:00:12.400 and financial literacy. And so what's really great is that 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:14.640 we get to do whatever we want to do whenever 1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:17.920 we want to on Sunday nights. We don't have that 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.520 anxiety that Monday morning is rolling around. So it's just 1:00:22.320 --> 1:00:24.960 it's really an unexplainable feeling to be able to have 1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:27.280 this freedom. And it goes back to what we talked 1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:31.040 about earlier, making that short term sacrifice for the long 1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:34.320 term gain. And yes, we're we're young, and we have 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:37.000 you know, we have a lot of things that that 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:40.040 we're working on, but they're all things that we're passionate about. 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:42.040 And that's what we didn't have the ability to do 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:45.200 before when we were working forty hours a week. You know, 1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:47.480 now we have those forty hours back to do whatever 1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:48.600 we want to do with them. 1:00:49.120 --> 1:00:51.520 And I really love that you asked that question too, Mandy, 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:56.520 because I think when people are thinking about financial independence 1:00:56.560 --> 1:00:58.439 and retiring early, you know, there's a split. You could 1:00:58.440 --> 1:01:00.680 just do financial independence and you can you to do 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:04.640 the job that you love, or you can actually retire early. 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:07.800 And so I think when people are on that retire 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.840 early path, if they ultimately want to retire early, they 1:01:10.880 --> 1:01:14.800 really need to envision what they think their life is 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:18.920 going to be like when they retire, because I'll tell you, 1:01:18.680 --> 1:01:21.520 if you're just sort of running from something, if you're 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:24.040 running from your job because you don't like your job 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:27.240 and so that's the reason you want to retire, your 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:30.840 retirement may not feel very fulfilling because then you're in 1:01:30.880 --> 1:01:32.520 retirement and it's sort of like, well, what do I 1:01:32.560 --> 1:01:36.200 do now? But if you really envision what your life. 1:01:36.080 --> 1:01:37.480 Can be like in retirement. 1:01:37.640 --> 1:01:39.880 If you love to travel, if you love to cook, 1:01:39.920 --> 1:01:42.080 if you love to spend time with your kids and 1:01:42.120 --> 1:01:44.560 your family, if you love to work out, if you 1:01:44.640 --> 1:01:47.600 like to build things, those are all things that people 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:51.160 can run towards versus running away from something. So they 1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:53.600 really have to think about if they want to pursue fire, 1:01:53.720 --> 1:01:55.240 what's the purpose behind that. 1:01:56.000 --> 1:02:01.920 I love that you guys have inspired me to expand 1:02:02.120 --> 1:02:05.880 my own possibilities for what the next decade and beyond 1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:08.880 can look like. And I love that you guys have 1:02:09.600 --> 1:02:12.800 you've proven to I think so many people like don't 1:02:12.840 --> 1:02:14.760 even know how to imagine a world where they don't 1:02:14.760 --> 1:02:18.120 work for someone else, you know, like or and if 1:02:18.160 --> 1:02:20.040 they don't work for someone then it's like owning their 1:02:20.040 --> 1:02:23.520 own business or whatever. But what about a world where 1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:27.920 you're just free to, you know, work on what you 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:32.520 find fulfilling, be with your family. Like it's really it's 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:34.760 it's a little sad to me that this is such 1:02:35.160 --> 1:02:38.840 like an extraordinary mindset to have. But you guys, truly 1:02:38.880 --> 1:02:42.720 are extraordinary because you have You've seen it, and you said, 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:45.040 this should be the normal, Like this should be the norm. 1:02:45.480 --> 1:02:47.400 This will be our normal. We are going to create 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:50.160 the life that we want. And I it really resonates 1:02:50.200 --> 1:02:53.560 with me if you can't tell, because I feel like 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:59.160 I am on this path toward this a good life, 1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:02.360 but a good life according to the you know, what's 1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:06.720 what's considered the norm in America and what's considered a 1:03:06.720 --> 1:03:09.520 good life according to I don't know what the mainstream 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:13.600 idea of a good life is. And I'm starting to 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:16.800 even challenge my own expectations and challenge some of the 1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:19.200 own some of my own ways of thinking about the 1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:21.880 next couple of decades in my life. And I mean 1:03:21.920 --> 1:03:24.080 even just being stuck in quarantine with my baby. You 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:25.760 can probably hear me in the background. He's a very 1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:30.280 vocal eater. He gets really mad, he's very angry. He's 1:03:30.320 --> 1:03:33.720 my child. But even just being in quarantine, I'm like, oh, 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:35.680 so I could just work at home and be with 1:03:35.720 --> 1:03:39.520 the baby all the time. This isn't that bad anyway. 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:42.160 I just want to thank y'all because I'm so glad 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:46.680 that you are sharing your story and and I know 1:03:46.720 --> 1:03:49.280 that forget about you know you can, we can forget 1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:51.720 about race for a second. I mean, the show is 1:03:51.760 --> 1:03:54.840 called Brown Ambition, so it's always there. We acknowledge we 1:03:54.880 --> 1:03:57.560 are two black women speaking to an audience, and first 1:03:57.600 --> 1:03:59.880 and foremost we want to talk to other black women 1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:02.680 and how to build wealth because we understand that, you know, 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:04.560 there's not a lot of people like us talking to them. 1:04:04.600 --> 1:04:08.280 And I am you guys are like unicorns, you know 1:04:08.360 --> 1:04:11.720 in the Fire movement, a black couple with two daughters 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:14.560 and your girls seeing them. And I even said this 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:16.880 to Christina in the email. I really meant it, if 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:20.040 only I had seen your two girls talking about financial 1:04:21.200 --> 1:04:24.960 financial h What am I thinking? Like? What are we 1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:27.880 talking about investing? Investing in wealth building? At a young 1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:30.680 age when I was you know, twelve or thirteen. Y'all 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:34.080 are so important and your stories are so important and 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:37.760 I and thank y'all for using your time when you 1:04:37.800 --> 1:04:41.919 could be doing anything else to educate and pour back 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:45.160 into communities who may not be getting this kind of knowledge. 1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:48.080 I it just it's I'll shut up now, but it's 1:04:48.160 --> 1:04:49.600 just y'all are the best. 1:04:50.000 --> 1:04:50.800 Thank you so much. 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:54.640 Know it's so nice. It's it's so nice. So you know, 1:04:54.720 --> 1:04:56.200 we wanted to talk to you guys anyway. 1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:59.560 So it was just like, oh, it's your baby that 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:00.800 this is it right, like. 1:05:02.840 --> 1:05:04.120 A pitome of brown ambition. 1:05:04.240 --> 1:05:05.920 And I think that it's just good for people to 1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.920 see that life can be lived differently, you know. 1:05:11.480 --> 1:05:14.080 And one hundred million less words than what I. 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:19.000 Used now, so just for me, just because Amandy and 1:05:19.040 --> 1:05:22.800 I are the way we live is so different, so 1:05:22.840 --> 1:05:26.800 they get to see different sides of like from both 1:05:26.840 --> 1:05:29.200 of us being bosses in our own right, but via 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:31.160 the corporate side or owning your own business. So this 1:05:31.280 --> 1:05:34.520 is just a nice we're pree from. This is another 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:37.720 way to live and people can find themselves in your journey. 1:05:37.760 --> 1:05:39.720 So we do really thank you, thank. 1:05:39.520 --> 1:05:42.400 You, thank you guys. Yeah, I'm so glad we able 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:43.040 to talk to. 1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:48.480 You well, Thank y'all, and and go live your fabulous life, 1:05:48.680 --> 1:05:52.080 you know on the two folks. Where they can find you, 1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:57.080 your your our Rich Journey on YouTube, on Instagram, anything 1:05:57.080 --> 1:05:59.200 else y'all want to anything you'll want to promote. 1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:02.120 Oh no, you know you mentioned our daughters too. 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:04.200 They have their channel out so it's called Our Rich 1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:05.280 Journey Junior. 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:07.360 So we'll show the kids some love. 1:06:07.640 --> 1:06:09.560 Yeah, check the girls out also. 1:06:09.760 --> 1:06:12.000 Yeah, but that's really where you can find us is 1:06:12.040 --> 1:06:16.520 on YouTube or Instagram at Rich Journey and send us 1:06:16.520 --> 1:06:20.360 a message. We eventually get to all of the questions. 1:06:20.360 --> 1:06:22.240 I mean, we are retired, we have nothing else to do. 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:26.880 I love it. 1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:30.800 Join the journey. That's how you always end your YouTube videos. 1:06:32.160 --> 1:06:35.440 Go join the journey. Thank y'all for sharing your story 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:37.040 with us. I would love to have y'all on the 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:41.840 show again sometime in the future. But be well, stay healthy. Yes, 1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:43.880 I mean, honestly, y'all should be wishing us luck. I 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:46.120 feel like we're the one. I feel like y'all are 1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:48.560 on the right track in Portugal. But yeah, be well, 1:06:48.560 --> 1:06:50.919 stay healthy and thank y'all again for coming on the show. 1:06:51.240 --> 1:07:09.400 Yes, thanks so much, guys,