1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Fan Duel. It's never been easier to play fantasy on 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Fan Duel, whether the love basketball, golf, soccer, or any 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: fantasy sport. There is a contest for every fan Fan 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Duel more ways to win. Hi, everybody, Welcome to the 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Wednesday Morning Podcast. I can't wait for the guest today, 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Sam Smith. He covered the Chicago Bulls for from seventy 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: nine to two thousand and eight, the Dynasty Years. Michael 9 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: Jordan didn't always like him, author of several books, including 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller The Jordan Rules. I always thought 11 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Sam didn't have a lot of bullshit or time for it, 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: and I think that's why he'll be a perfect guest 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: to talk about Scottie Pippen's new book, which is getting 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: kind of slammed. It has a boomerang effect that's coming 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: back to hit him. You know. Scottie Pippen and Carmelo 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: Anthony would make my first team All lack of self 17 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: awareness team. I covered Scottie for a couple of years. 18 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: Scotty's really talented, a great athlete, but he just never 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: had an understanding of how he was viewed he was 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: really athletic and really talented, and one of the great 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: defenders in the history the league. Great length, great quickness 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: for his size, offensively a great slasher. But you know, 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: Scottie was always viewed as somebody who when he was 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: briefly given the number one role for the Bulls after 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: a year, he unraveled. Scotty was never emotionally mentally a one. 26 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: He was a two. He was a small town kid 27 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: that Chicago's the big city and Michael was big enough 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: for the room. Scotty wasn't. He was in a perfect 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: role as a two, from the interviews to run the team, 30 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: to a practice guy, to somebody that you could rely on. 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: He was always viewed as a great two. But Scotty 32 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: always kind of wanted to be paid like a one 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: and treated like a one. Now many people have insinuated, well, 34 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: Scotty had a bad contract. He had a right to 35 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: be mad. Nobody had a worse contract than Michael Jordan 36 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: Magic Johnson's first contract was twenty five years, twenty five 37 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: million dollars. Guys back then, a lot of stars had 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: bad contracts. They made money, though they started to make 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: big money obviously with Jordan and Magic with their shoes. 40 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: But Scottie's always had a little bit of an axe 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: to grind. And so when Jordan comes out with his 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: ten part documentary and it kind of you marginalizes Scotty, 43 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: I didn't think it did. I thought, you know, Scotty 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: wasn't that interesting. He was just the second best player 45 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: on a really fascinating team. Rodman was fascinating. The Steve 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: Kerr Michael Jordan relationship where Michael punched him fascinating, The 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: Michael Jerry Krause relationship fascinating, the Coup coach Pippin Jordan 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: relationship fascinating. You know, I mean, Rodman was nuts. Scotty wasn't. 49 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: Michael was a superstar off the court. Scotty wasn't. Scotty 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: was just really good. And I think the documentary really 51 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: is the ignition switch for years of an axe to 52 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: grind and a feeling that, you know, I'm not viewed 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: as I should be, when in fact, Scotty's viewed, in 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: my opinion, perfectly, never ever could give him the number 55 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: one role. In fact, Paul George to me, is a 56 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: more reliable one than and he's viewed as wildly inconsistent. 57 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: I would build around Paul George before I'd build around 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: Scottie Pippen. Pippin went to Houston. He and Barkley couldn't 59 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: stand each other. Scotty went to Portland. They didn't dial 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: up place for Scottie. I mean, Rashid Wallace would take 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: the big shot, Steve Smith would take the big shot, 62 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: or Vitas Sabonis would take the big shot. Scotty was 63 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: never a guy you'd dialed up the big shot for. 64 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: I said it the other day on television, that Laker 65 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: Blazer Series eleven gamer in the Western Conference Finals. Scottie 66 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: was three for ten in the game, and oh for 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: three and the fourth. You don't dial up plays for 68 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: Scottie Pippen. That was never his role. So he writes 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: a book all about vengeance vindictiveness, and it's boomerang come 70 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: right back in his face. And that's what it should do. 71 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: If you do anything in your life out of vindictiveness, 72 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you 73 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: in the ass. And that's what Scotty did and that's 74 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: the result. All right, here's Sam Smith Bulls dot Com 75 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: Chicago trip for years. The Jordan Rules a great book. 76 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I've read it twice New York Times bestseller, So it 77 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: seems like about once a year, Sam, I call you, 78 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: or my guys call you. I say, okay, I gotta 79 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: bring in Sam Smith. We got to talking about this 80 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: because the bulls that you covered are more fascinating certainly 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: than the bulls today and ninety percent of the league 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: they were. I always said, I said today, it's like 83 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones. If you did a documentary on him, 84 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: there'd be the Keith Richards didn't show up to the concert. 85 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: You know, there would be the Jagger Keith fights, there 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: would be It's just a fascinating team that you covered. 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: And I covered Scottie for two years in Portland, and 88 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: I always felt he had a little bit of an 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: axe to grind, but didn't. He would talk to you 90 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: privately about it. And then Michael does the documentary and 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: he's like, Okay, the gloves are off, I'm going to 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: write a book. Here we go. So I think sam 93 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: My gut feeling is it's an ill advised book that 94 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: he would not have written if there wasn't a documentary. 95 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: Am I right or wrong on that? Yes? And no? 96 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: When you're with him and you get to talk to him, 97 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you have to, you know, know him 98 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: in in Portland. You know, he's very personable. I find 99 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: to get along with him well. And then and in 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: these outrages come along every so often you're like, you're 101 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: like a maze, like where did that come from? But 102 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, one thing I wanted to say about Scottie, 103 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: because you know, I was around him from when he 104 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: came into the NBA his entire career. I'd never run 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: across an athlete that or you know, act or whatever. 106 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: You make these great comparisons. Who has such a resilient 107 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: ability to come off to Matt from things that nobody 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: would survive, you know, not only eight seconds, which gets discussed. 109 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: It was your favorite grad uh, you know in the 110 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety finals, nineteen you know, seventh game of the 111 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Conference finals, sitting there with a towel over his head, 112 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: but the sort of the ultimate of quitting and comes 113 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: back and there's a Star War Champions in the next year. 114 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, and so many outrages where I remember one 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: great story if you have time. We were in Boston 116 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: on a trip and Scotti goes off on Jerry Krause. 117 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: I hate him, just bashing him, and so you know, 118 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: this is a newspaper here, would you know before you 119 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: know media, you know, Twitter, all that sort of stuff. 120 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: So we get to Chicago the next morning and the 121 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: TV truck's all because the media didn't travel back then, 122 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: the TV and radio and his truck's all over the 123 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: place and TV and Scotty walks in and to Phil, 124 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: what's you know what? What's all the TV here? What's 125 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: did something happened? And Phil goes, well, know to hit 126 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: to see you? He said, well why, he said, well, 127 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: well you said last night. He's gotta go what I say, 128 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, like it was a big deal. And it's 129 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: always been like that that he says he does. He's 130 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, sort of like you know Mark Twain, the 131 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: old you know, better to keep your mouth closed and 132 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: let him think you're the full than open it, and 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: and you know, show otherwise, and Scotty does and then 134 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: just keeps going on, so you know, writing a book 135 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: like you said, yeah it maybe it'd be ill advised. 136 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: And you're thinking, you know, here he comes again, but no, 137 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: it's Scottie Pippen. You know, he'll do it and then 138 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: get up off the mat again. You know, you know, 139 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: first of all, you know that he claimed that, you know, 140 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: Phil Jackson was racist, didn't let him have the final shot. 141 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of pushback on that because Pippin 142 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: did have a couple of shots at the end of 143 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: that game didn't hit him, and then they dialed up 144 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: a shot for Ku coach and he hit it. So 145 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: that's boomerang back that's been bad for Scottie. I said 146 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: this in my preamble before you came on, is when 147 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: I covered him in Portland. If you go back to 148 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Game seven Blazers Lakers, when he was the highest profile Blazer. 149 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: He was oh for three and the fourth quarter three 150 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: for ten for the game. They didn't dial up place 151 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: for him. He was a great athlete, but Rashid and 152 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: Steve Smith and Stademeyer and Arvidas were better pure shooters. 153 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: So Scotty wasn't a dial up the play guy. I means, 154 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: that's Sam. That's how I viewed him. You how did 155 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: you view him? Well, he never was I don't think 156 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: he ever hit a closing shot of his entire career. 157 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: But that was the whole point why it worked so 158 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: well with Jordan, because he was the facilitator for years 159 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: when the Bulls, you know, Jordan lost nine of the 160 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: first ten playoff games he played in. You know, now 161 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: he would people would kill him for that. Oh you 162 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: loser one and nine in the playoffs. But the problem 163 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: the Bulls had with him all the time was he 164 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: wanted to take the ball and bring it up full court. 165 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't until Scotty came along with this point forward, 166 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, mentality that Michael could go up. They could 167 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: send Michael up and now you draw the defense back, 168 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: because the defense was always up waiting for Michael. Now 169 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: with Scottie, you know, Michael could go down, draw the 170 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: defense and now Scotti could bring it up and be 171 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: the facilitator. And that really was the turning point that 172 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: changed the offense for the Bulls when Scotty could take 173 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: that role and Michael could trust him to take that role. 174 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: But he you know, Tony, Tony was very undervalued, but 175 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: he was a great, great shooter. And in fact that 176 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: that season, there's a famous Reggie Miller game where Reggie 177 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: hits up three with I think it was three seconds 178 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: left in the stadium and literally bows they you know, 179 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: does that bow all four is a classic thing. It 180 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: turns four different ways in the stadium. Bows they have 181 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: to hitting this three with like two seconds left and 182 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: they throw it into the coach at the buzzer and 183 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: he hits the winner and the Bulls run off. And 184 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: when I was that very season, so no, Phil knew 185 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: that this was his finisher. You know, with Michael not there, 186 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: Ku coach was the guy and that you know, I mean, 187 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: obviously you know we've over this ground probably with this, 188 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: but you know, it's a team thing, the idea. You know, 189 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: how many times is Lebron at the end of the 190 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: game he get criticized for it, but he would always saying, 191 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm about making the right play to win the game. 192 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: And people would you know, there would be critics of 193 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: Lebron and say, well, he needed to take the last 194 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: shot even if he's tripled team, because that's what great 195 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: players doing. Lebrons would say, no, I want to make 196 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: the right play. And this era of NBA players, you 197 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: hear it now, you know they're not Michael and Kobe 198 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: kind of guys. They're Lebron guys. They talk about the 199 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: right play all the time, not finishing because it's kind 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: of been drilled into their head. Because you know, Lebron's 201 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: poster was on their wall, not Michael and Kobe, so 202 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, and so that really should be you know, 203 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the ultimate test. Scotty was always making the right play, 204 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: So I mean, he had the great answer for the argument, 205 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: he just didn't make it. You know. It is interesting, 206 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: and I do believe the inspiration, if that's the right 207 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: word for this book, is that documentary. And by the way, 208 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the documentary is certainly to be argued 209 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Lebron winning that series over. I think it was Golden 210 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: State and people saying, oh, Lebron is better than Michael, 211 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: and Michael's like, timeout, let's go back and revisit my 212 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: great career. So it would make sense that that the 213 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: documentary Scotty then says, time out, let's reboot the vision 214 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: of my career. Let's go back to the last dance. 215 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: I have said that. I think it was it was 216 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's view. And this is all documentaries, they're not journalism. 217 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: Whoever the documentarian is, it's their view of an event 218 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: or a time period. I think mostly MJ's last dance. 219 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: I remember the moments it did have a Michael lean 220 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: to it. Were there things in it the last Dance 221 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: that Sam, you just take exception too and go, Okay, 222 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: that's a bunch of bullshit, all right, that didn't happen 223 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: were there because a lot of it was public. We 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: knew about Krause MJ. We knew a lot, but Sam, 225 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: were there are things in the last Dance that forget 226 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: Pippin that you took exception to. People have asked me 227 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: about it, obviously you have, and what I say, I said, 228 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: it's one of those TV movies that you see on 229 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: and they put up a disclaimer and say based on 230 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: a true story. So yeah, the story essentially is true, 231 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: but a lot of elements were and it's sort of 232 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: for drama, like with the pizza thing in the Utah hotel, 233 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: but the actually he didn't have the flu what he 234 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: really had, and nobody'd ever said it. You know, I knew, 235 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: we knew what the doctors he had altitude sickness, but 236 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: it didn't sound cool enough. Now I don't know why 237 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: he changed it to make up the pizza poison pizza thing, 238 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: you know, because he got out he sort of escaped 239 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: with the flu. Everybody bought that. It sounded good, but 240 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: they were up in Park City and kept traveling back 241 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: and forth into the valley, you know, for practice, back 242 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: and forth, back and forth, and the doctors around the 243 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: team felt what he had was altitude sickness, but it 244 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: didn't sound like something Michael Jordan would have. The biggest 245 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: thing was, and it's been the history that that the 246 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: Bulls broke up the team, that they forced this, and 247 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: Jordan in the documentary says they should have given us actually, 248 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: and I know this. Jordan has since apologized to the 249 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: Bulls and said, well, maybe I shouldn't have said that, 250 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: but what happened. They saw the stuff that happened, you know, 251 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: between the Bulls did offer contracts to every buddy Jordan 252 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: would come back, and of course they were getting they 253 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: were all free agents and we're getting bigger offers. Scotty, 254 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: particularly with Houston, and the Bulls accommodated at Scotty's top 255 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: deal was thirty eight million. They did a sign and 256 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: trade to get him to seventy six. Now, of course 257 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: Houston regretted that because Scotty had back surgery again after 258 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: the ninety eighth season, and that's when you saw him 259 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: in Portland. He was no longer an athlete that's why 260 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: he couldn't do you know, he was a facilitator completely. 261 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: He couldn't make plays then like he could athletically with 262 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: the bulls. But that that what Jordan commediately left. That 263 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: was during that lockout season in ninety seven ninety eight 264 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: he cut his finger open on a cigar thing and 265 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: out of surgery, so he wasn't gonna be able to 266 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: play that season. So this give us a chance to 267 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: come back. Thing was like, what are you talking about? 268 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: You couldn't play. So there was that. So there were 269 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: a couple of things like that. But you know, it's 270 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: like like I said, with a good movie. You know 271 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: you said, a lot of time you're watching a good 272 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: movie and you say, well that you think to yourself, 273 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: that couldn't happen any want to let it go along 274 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: because it's just a good drama. And yeah, basically we 275 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: all knew that that story. That was the story. It 276 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: was a chance for all of us to look back 277 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: and appreciate it, you know, me included, because when you're 278 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: going through it, you know, you didn't appreciate not that 279 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: I was there, but you probably didn't appreciate the Gettysburg 280 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: address as much. When you look back on it. But 281 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: at the time when he read those, you know, twenty 282 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: minutes of words, you were thinking, all right, that's good, 283 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: but I've heard better than that, you know. And then 284 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: when you you know, you think about it, it's pretty cool. 285 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: And so when it's every day and you're going to 286 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: the next game, in the next game and building the 287 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: next story and can they you know, you don't appreciate 288 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: it as much. And so now you know, twenty thirty 289 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: years later, to stand back and see it like we did. 290 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: So I wasn't going to quibble about some of the 291 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: some of the things that came up that were maybe 292 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: not exactly but you know, for the story made a 293 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: good story. The callin Coward podcast proud to be presented 294 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: by FanDuel. Never played FanDuel Fantasy before. Great FanDuel's offering 295 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: users the chance to play free, no deposit required. 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I only cover the team as a 322 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: row reporter. I would be in Portland or I would 323 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: be somewhere and they would come into town and I 324 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: would cover Jordan. And there was a mystique to the Bulls. 325 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: I can remember when they came into town. They were 326 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: always the lead story on the news, not in sports. 327 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: The Bulls were in town. There's never been another team 328 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: in my life for that was the lead story. You know, 329 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: in Portland there's always a salmon or a fisheries issue 330 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: or a forestry issue. You don't lead with sports ever. 331 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: Right when when you look at those Bulls teams, and 332 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: this is where I feel like Scotty doesn't doesn't quite 333 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: feel appreciated. You go back to that the Magic Johnson 334 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: teams where after game one they put Scotty on Magic 335 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: and he was a pain in the butt. Do you 336 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: feel at least a little bit sam that we have 337 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: because of Michael's glamour. I mean, he was not only 338 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: the best player, he was the most clutch, He was 339 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: the most glamorous. That it did shrink Scotty and that 340 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: Scotty was probably a little better than we remember him. 341 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: Is that fair, No, Paul Uh. Back to contrary, Scottie 342 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: Pippen became a top fifty player a team and that circumstance, 343 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: he was a great contributor to it, and he was 344 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: a big part of it. You know, he was one 345 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: of the you know, became a star on the on 346 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: the Dream team. You know, if he in that draft 347 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: in eighty seven, there was a lot of maneuvering going on. 348 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: The Bulls traded up at number eight and they moved 349 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: up to five, and the deal was, you know with 350 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: Seattle that if their player was there that they wanted, 351 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: they weren't. I think it was Reggie what's his name 352 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: from Georgetown, Reggie Williams, and I think he got taken 353 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: just before. So if sac and Sacramento at six, they 354 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: were trying to move up to. So if Scottie had 355 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: gone to Sacramento, you know, instead of Kenny so as 356 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: he as he was the Bulls at eight, Sacramento was 357 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: going to take him to six for sure. Do you 358 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: think he would have in a top fifty player? You know, 359 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: if you played great defense for a team that's winning 360 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: thirty games, who what's the difference if you lose by 361 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: thirty or fifteen, you still lost. Nobody would notice, right, 362 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: you know. So there's Robin Scotty had. And this played 363 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: out a lot during the Bulls too. You know, he 364 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: was very close with Horrors when they started, and they 365 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: were inseparable. I've never seen teammates like that. They literally 366 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: would call each other before the games to see what 367 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: they were gonna wear, and wear matching outfits. They bought 368 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: the same cars, they bought the same dogs, they bought 369 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: the same clothes. And so Scottie would hang out with 370 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: with the Horrors all the time. But then he would 371 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: be entrance by seeing Michael and all the glamour, and 372 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: then he would go and try and join Michael's circle. 373 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: But if you joined Michael circle, you know you're you're 374 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: a acolyte. You know you're not You're not the star. 375 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: And then Scotty would get upset and he would go 376 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: back to Harras and say, ah, you know, Michael. So 377 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: scott He's had this throughout his life. I don't know 378 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: if you know about some of his investments. He got 379 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: involved with some high rollers in Chicago and bought a 380 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: plane and a yacht, and of course when bankrupt with 381 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: it and lost a lot of money because you know, 382 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: and who knows what you know? We try to suck 383 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: analyze in. You know, you always do a good job 384 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: in getting behind people's votives and stuff. You know ten 385 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: ten ten siblings too. Room house is grinding poverty people 386 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: are he literally he was on a work study. He 387 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: didn't get a basketball scholarship. He was the towel guy 388 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: in the locker room as a freshman in college. How 389 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: do you get to be a top player from the 390 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: being the guy giving out the towels? Not only not 391 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: only the players I mean the freshman, but the players 392 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: at Central Arkansas. So imagine the arc of this guy 393 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: and so probably summoned that. But he's always been caught 394 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: between with us. I don't get enough, I don't get 395 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: enough credit. I want to be with the big guys too. 396 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: When he gets over there. Don't like the way he's treated. 397 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: But actually I think I think Scott Scottie is fine. 398 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: Besides all the all the outrages, Scott, he's one of 399 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: the most celebrated players in the history of the game, 400 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: with top fifty. Who gets on Magic Johnson in the 401 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: finals and changes the course of the series. You know, 402 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: some of the things he's done at extraordinary So whatever, 403 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: you know, whatever his notion is that he's not appreciated, 404 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: I feel badly in that sense because he is, and 405 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: he keeps he keeps bringing himself down by by in effect, 406 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: saying he's not and coming up with all these excuses 407 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: he is appreciated. Yeah, No, I always felt he was 408 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: viewed appropriately that I never thought he quite had the 409 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: mentality or self awareness to be a number one. You know, 410 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: he wanted the money and the accolades that come with it, 411 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: but to be a number one you have Michael Jordan 412 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: did the interviews, and Michael Jordan got the heat, and 413 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: people wrote books about Michael, and it's hard to be 414 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: a number one. I mean, you know, a great example 415 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: is Zach Levine for the Bulls. Tremendous talent, but you're 416 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: not going championships if he leads the team. I don't 417 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: think we you know, Mark Cuban and I had this 418 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: discussion once over email. He goes, there's a lot fewer 419 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: ones than all you media guys think. You know, there's 420 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: about six in the league and then everybody else is 421 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: a one era two, And you know, I think that 422 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: is largely true. That and I think it's almost Sam, 423 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: it's harder now because of the social media. You know, 424 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: players now have their income from playing, income from shoes, 425 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: and income from social media, and a lot of these 426 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: guys lose the equilibrium on that. They go too far 427 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: into social media, like Kevin Durant and they kind of 428 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: forget who they are. And I think in a weird 429 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: way that Jordan and Pippen were very lucky because there 430 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: was basketball and you know, you may have your shoe deal. 431 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 1: I kind of sometimes think it's harder today. I mean, 432 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: go back to your era. It was a simpler time 433 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: for players. Be great, get a shoe deal, win and 434 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: then Sam smithell Barkett. You once in a while, you're 435 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: not gonna have fans crushing you on social media when 436 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: you when you go back to that, those Jordan Bull 437 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: teams and you look at the league today. Was it simpler? 438 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: It wasn't an easier time for players? Well, it was 439 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: a lot of coaches say, you know, it's less noisy. 440 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: You know, it's less outside noises. You know, as far 441 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: as the one thing, you know, Scotty wasn't a one 442 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: and that was that was the point. He's like, he's 443 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: like more like Ben Simmons, you know, he he could 444 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: he with his sighs and his athletic ability all these 445 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: other things. But you would never give it in the 446 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: ball at the end of the game and say win 447 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: a game that that that would that would that would 448 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: that would hurt him and the team because that's not 449 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: what he was. But you know that there was scrutiny, 450 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: but the NBA was a smaller you know, it wasn't 451 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: the monolith that it's become. You know, you can't write 452 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: the Jordan rules today, not because somebody you know it's 453 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: not good enough, but you don't have access. There's no 454 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: access to They were just other guys. You know, you 455 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: probably know from being around some too. You know when 456 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: you went back in the eighties into the nineties and 457 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, nobody out a plane who traveled like after 458 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: the games when you went out and out with a player, 459 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, just because they didn't have an entourage, they 460 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: didn't have bloodies traveling with him, and you know something 461 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: like you know, Jordan would often say to me, he said, 462 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, come up to the room, hang out. You know, 463 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: I got I got a ping pong tape to bringing up. 464 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: I got no one to fund with, you know, because 465 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: Harrace was hanging around with Scotty and he didn't like 466 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: Bill Cartwright. So but that wasn't unusual that just the 467 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: way it was, you were a little traveling family circus. 468 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean the scrutiny was nowhere near 469 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: it near it was. But at the same time, people 470 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: don't know those players like people like fans did then, 471 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, because we could spend so much time with them, 472 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: we got to know them, and there's no access to them, 473 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: and they don't open themselves up other than you know, 474 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: social media and and I don't know what you could 475 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: get from one hundred and twenty characters in really poor English. 476 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: On the last dance, I had said, Michael looked the 477 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: best of everybody. Kraus looked the worst. I thought Phil 478 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: Jackson came across as very smart Ethereald was sort of 479 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: the ringmaster of all of that. That's what it felt 480 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: like to me. Michael was the talent and Phil was 481 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: the orchestra conductor of it. That was my perception. He 482 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: looks second best when you were covering it back then. 483 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: Did it feel like that that he had as much control, 484 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: nuance ability to contextualize situations. Did it feel like that 485 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: during that dynasty. Yeah, it's good observation because I think 486 00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: that's exactly who Phil was. You know, he was always 487 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: often criticized, you know, for lack of axes and all 488 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: those because of the zen and all that other stuff 489 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: and the mysticism that they would make up and the 490 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: practicing without the ball and the dark and this stuff. 491 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: Bill was a very good X and OL Guy's really 492 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: a basketball guy. So Phil, Because when when Phil came Michael, 493 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: Michael liked Doug Collins. There was this notion at Michael 494 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: Collins fired. Not true at all. He liked Doug a lot. 495 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean, Doug gave him the ball and basically said, 496 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: he come Michael Jordan. You know, he was this seventeen 497 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: point scorer and he wasn't going to be Michael Jordan. 498 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: You know. Rob Thorn at the day at a draft said, look, 499 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: you know he's going to be a good player, but 500 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: we're not talking about it around a franchise. So you know, 501 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: this wasn't a guy that people were expecting was going 502 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: to come in the league and not only win scoring 503 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: champion septs every year, you know, but be regarded as 504 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: one of the elite of all time. So but so 505 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: Doug comes in and gives him the ball and says, 506 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: you know, go Actually, when he was a rookie, I 507 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: remember talking to Michael of A. Kevin was his coach, 508 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: and Kevin was a scoring player in the NBA, score 509 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: first guy. And Michael gave a lot of credit to 510 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 1: Kevin because he said, Kevin gave me the ball and 511 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: said go ahead and score on those guys. And he 512 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: said that gave me the confidence to be able to 513 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: think I could do it. I wasn't sure I could 514 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: do it. Phil takes over very surprising leader Bulls go 515 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: to the conference finals in eighty nine. Du gets fired 516 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: different issues, you know, and Michael even no, Phil Bill 517 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: was on the staff for two years. He'd never even 518 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: spoken to him in Phil tellsand what he wants to 519 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: do and he and he comes over to him and 520 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: he says, this was like that first conversation after Phil 521 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: came coach, and he no, this would before, this would 522 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: before Phil kame coach. And he said, you know, in 523 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: the history in the last thirty five years in the game, 524 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: is only one player that's won a scoring title, and 525 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: his team won the championship that season. You know who 526 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: that is. Michael says no, he says it was Kareem 527 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: And so Phil says, does that mean anything to you? 528 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: Michael said no and walked away. So then when Phil 529 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: Bill becomes coach, he talks about he's going to implement 530 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: this offense, try and go offense, and uh so I 531 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: remember talking. I talked to Michael after camp. You know, 532 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: we went through games eight exhibitions back then, and so 533 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: before the first game, I said, well, so what do 534 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: you think about the new offense. He said, I'll give 535 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: it two games to see how it works. It wasn't 536 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: like he saw Phil that this was going to be 537 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: the savior. He was very unsure and suspicious about Phil. 538 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: The biggest thing, obviously, you know, which Michael sort of 539 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: copped to in the end, was Phil finally got him 540 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: to accept and trust the other guys and it manifested itself. 541 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: And you know in the final game and ninety one finals, 542 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: and you know in that time out where he says 543 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: to Michael, who's open, you know in my missing shots 544 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: and they're you know, Lakers are catching up. You know, 545 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: Magic's not playing, Byron Scott's not playing, and he says, 546 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: finally said Paxson and Phil says, yeah, throw him in 547 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: the ball is everybody else? He said, you know, Michael, 548 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: you got to be the one to carry us through. 549 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: And then that was really the beginning of the dynasty, 550 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: and that was Phail's influence. I want to throw a 551 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: few topics at you on the current NBA. So you 552 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: mentioned Ben Simmons. Now you you said you trade him 553 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: without hesitation. So would I. I do think if you 554 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: have shooters on the wings like Golden State, he's kind 555 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: of a point forward, a great defender, scores at the rim. 556 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: I don't think he can play with a dominant scoring big, 557 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: which is exactly what mbiad is. I don't think it 558 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: works your thought on what you're seeing. I said the 559 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: other day, Stime, I thought Ben Simmons was a cautionary 560 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: tale that you see rarely, but a cautionary tale of 561 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: sort of AU basketball. You're great early, you're designated as 562 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: a transformational talent, and just on talent, you dominate AU 563 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: in college. You get to the pros and you're damn good. 564 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: But you don't want to work on your game. You're 565 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: not entirely coachable. You lack some self awareness, and I 566 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: don't think you can coach that out of Ben Simmons, Like, 567 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: I think he's indifferent. I think he's casual. He's he's 568 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: sort of too casual for me, too indifferent. I don't 569 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: think you can coach that. I always say it reminds 570 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,719 Speaker 1: me of Jay Cutler when he quarterbacked. He was just indifferent. 571 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: I want my guys to be Philip Rivers and care 572 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: so damn much they're arguing with guys that weigh one 573 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: hundred pounds more. I think Ben Simmons, I think this 574 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: is what he's going to be. Your thoughts, That's that's 575 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: at our heart here in Chicago with Cutler. But actually, 576 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: actually it's actually a pretty good comparison because he had 577 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: this incredible athletic ability. The way through the ball was, 578 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, incredible. What happens with a lot of guys 579 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: in sports like Ben Simmons, and you're right it might 580 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, they a thing. Two elements. One is they 581 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: come in so young that they're not you know, Michael 582 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: Jordan was in college three years playing with not only 583 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: under Dean Smith's system, but playing with James Worry Sam, 584 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, being in these circumstances where he could grow 585 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: and mature so now you know, we see them as teenagers, 586 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: but more than that, we see them and because we 587 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: need them to succeed so quickly, because and now there's 588 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: rookie limitations. You only have them for four years, five years, 589 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: maybe whatever the case might be, before you got to 590 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: give him big money. We want them to be who 591 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: we need rather than who we are, So we don't 592 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: give Ben Simmons a chance to be who he is. 593 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: What I like about Simmons particular, he's got a real 594 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: edge to him. They may say that, well, it doesn't 595 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: work hard, but I don't know how hard he works. 596 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how hard anybody works. He's he's a 597 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: six ten, uh you know, point guard basically would handle 598 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: the ball the fen and he's got an edge to him. 599 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: You know, you're going to have your guy who works 600 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: hard t J. McConnell or whatever and throws himself all 601 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: over the court, but he's only going to be what 602 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: he is and he's never going to be special. This 603 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: guy still has a chance to be special, and he's 604 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: just a kid. Still. Second issue, when I look at 605 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving, I've said before we always underrated Eli Manning's 606 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: ability to be available. We underrate Paul George's ability to 607 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: be available. I like Anthony Davis, I like Kawhi Leonard, 608 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: and I like Kyrie, but I can't tell if they're 609 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: physically or mentally ready to play in half their big games. 610 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: The other day, I was talking to a guy that's 611 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: covered the league for a while, Chris Mannox, and he 612 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,719 Speaker 1: said something to me, and I was kind of shocked. 613 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: He said, I think. He said, I think Kyrie's untradeable. 614 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: Who in God's name would buy would acquire that contract? 615 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: And I thought, God, you can sell any contract. You 616 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: could sell Westbrooks, John Walls, you could And I started thinking, Ya, 617 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: Westbrooks flawed, but he shows up to play. Is Kyrie? 618 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: I can't think of another player that was this gifted 619 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: and is virtually untradeable. Is that reasonable? Well, like you 620 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: pointed out John Wall, you know who was who was 621 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: not available? And you're right in this NBA, especially availability 622 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: and maybe the number one skill. You really got to 623 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: give credit, and not that we should, because we always 624 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: assumed they just wanted to play, and they always talk about, oh, 625 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: how much I loved the game, So we get that, 626 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: I don't nobody's untradeable. We found that because we always 627 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: we always called contracts. You know, John Howard's contract was 628 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: untraded live. He's not athletic, you know, an ulst, and 629 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: he gets traded multiple times after that. Um. Kyrie is 630 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: such a unique talent. I mean, I think he has 631 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: some issues, some personal issues obviously U that you know, 632 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: that go to mood and things like that that affect 633 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: his daily ability. That's beyond sports. I think there are 634 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: other jews you're dealing with there. But because like you 635 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: said before in a conversation with Cuban, there's a lot 636 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: fewer ones than you think, and teams because of that 637 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: will always take a chance. If you put Kyrie Irving 638 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: on the market, I have no doubt there'd be a 639 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: half dozen teams would line up right away and say, 640 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'll take a chance. I can fix that. 641 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: Because you can't find talent, you always think you can 642 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: fix personality. Zach Levine, you watch him on a nightly basis, 643 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: I don't twenty seven a game yet has one of 644 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: the lower winning percentages I've said about Zach levine talents 645 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: there doesn't feel like a winning basketball player, just a 646 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: super talented basketball player. You tell me you see him 647 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: more than I do. What's the story with him? Well, 648 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: because you know, probably because I see him every game, 649 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: you know, i'd be biased, But I think it's really 650 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: unfair to judge a player as as a failure to 651 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: win because he hasn't won, which it would sound, you know, 652 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: the circumstances of Zach and I mean he he came 653 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: to a Minnesota team that was rebuilding, essentially was starting over. 654 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: You know, it gets into his third year when's you know, 655 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,439 Speaker 1: done contestant all shows his athleticism, and then it gets 656 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: traded to a team that again is starting over. So 657 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: basically six of his first seven years he was playing 658 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: with teams trying to lose for draft picks. And so yeah, 659 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how you can necessarily, I mean you can, 660 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, because we judge, we judge. It sort of 661 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: been reversed. We say, well, let's see what happened and 662 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: then we'll tell you why it happened. Rather than saying 663 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: we think this will happened, we say, well, if they look, 664 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: if he lost, he must be a loser. And I 665 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: think he's I think he's a unique town. He fortunately 666 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: this season and at Leasta with the Balls, has not 667 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: been able to play with a Chris Paul. I think 668 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: Phoenix is the perfect example. Look at Devin Booker. Zach 669 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: is way better than Devin Booker. He can do everything 670 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: Devin Booker can and better, and he's bigger, and he's 671 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,720 Speaker 1: more athletic. And Devin Booker scored seventy or eighty points, 672 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: but seventy points whatever he got and never was in 673 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: a playoff game. And then what do you know, Chris 674 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: Paul shows up and a guy who knows how to 675 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: play pass the game, knows when to get you the 676 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: ball at the right spot and you don't have to 677 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: be carrying the ball over the place making turnovers and 678 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: things you notice at the end of games when Booker, 679 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: when they give book Of the ball is a turnover. 680 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: It is a bad isolation, is a bad shot. When 681 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: Chris has the ball and he can score and get 682 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: a position, that's what Zach needs. If you get Yeah, 683 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: he's not you know, he's not Michael Jordan that you're 684 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: going to give him the ball and he can finish 685 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: every game without making mistakes. He's not a natural ball handler. 686 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: He's good enough, you know, he's good enough to you know, 687 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: big ball screens or pick and roll and play and 688 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: make plays off the dribble, but not being as your 689 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: primary guy against the defense. If the balls can get 690 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: someone like that and it's hard to do, he can 691 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: be with Devin Booker has become Devin Booker was a loser. 692 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: Now he's in the you know, probably going to be 693 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: in the finals or you know, Lucy how a Clipper 694 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: series goes. But you know Zach's but he is. He 695 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: is a way better player than he's been given credit for. 696 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: And one thing it's like with D're into this is 697 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: the most amazing recovery to me in the history of sports. 698 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: He had the worst knee injury possible ECL. I saw 699 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: that happening with Derek Rose, and Derek as good as 700 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: he'd come back, is not the same physical player. Doesn't 701 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: go in the air like he did. Zach goes in 702 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: the air like nobody in the AA after an ACL 703 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: unheard of. Nobody's ever played like this after an ACL, 704 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 1: with that kind of athleticism on a game by game basis, 705 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: I think he's just truly remarkable player about you know, 706 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: about to burst through and hopefully gets a chance. You know, 707 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: he made the Olympic team, Sam, that was just great. 708 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna call you again. You're good. Well, 709 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: I need your guidance. I need you, I need your 710 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: expertise when Zach becomes, when Zach starts to get to 711 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: the conference finals, I'm going to call you and just 712 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: let you go because I've always been a doubter of Zach. 713 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: He's from Ballard, by the way, which is an hour 714 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: fifteen from my hometown. I watched them in high school. 715 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: I saw clips of him in high school. YouTube was around. 716 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: He was an unbelievable talent. That was never the issue. 717 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: But I like the fact that you defended him because 718 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: I think the Booker thing is fascinating. I was watching 719 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: Booker the other night. I didn't pass a lot. Peter 720 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: Vessey was ripping him on Twitter saying this he ever passed, which, 721 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: by the way, for you young star players who score, 722 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: they don't. They don't have to at AYU. They just 723 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: score right right. But that's also their job for the team, 724 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: you know. I mean how many times we criticized Lebron 725 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: because he did pass and we said, hey, you got 726 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: to take that shot. Get to the line. Chris Lebron, 727 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, that's the other issue. Doesn't want to go 728 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: to the line, you know, but those are other two. 729 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,879 Speaker 1: But the point is, you know, it's like a lot 730 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: of players say, be a star in your role and 731 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: whatever your role is, Well, if your role is to 732 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: be a score, be a star and that you know score, 733 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: I think Zach is h yeah, and we I hear 734 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: it all the time in Chicago from fans. You know, 735 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: let's trade Zach. He's not a winner. But you know, 736 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of players who've been in 737 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: that situation before, you know, and that's the element of 738 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: getting the team in that like I said with Phoenix, 739 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: to me, it's Chris Paul is the perfect example of 740 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: elevating you know, these other players that none of them 741 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: that team had made the playoffs with for ten or 742 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: eleven years, eleven year and not are going to be 743 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: in the finals. How does that happen? You know? But 744 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: so it shows, you know, it shows with a little 745 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: tweak obviously, that was an extraordinary example. But Zach, Zach 746 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: isn't is an amazing talent. I mean, he is to me, 747 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: one of the one He's as good a score as 748 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: there is in the NBA. And if you look at 749 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: the numbers, he's got the best shooting percentage among shooting 750 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: guards in the lake. So he's an efficient player. Two, 751 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: he's shooting forty two percent on threes. He shot fifty 752 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: percent overall, makes you know, eighty eight percent of with 753 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: E five whatever, I mean, he's almost fifty forty ninety. 754 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: So what's the problem. You know, what's the issue here? Sam? 755 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,439 Speaker 1: A pleasure, great seeing you. I love that you still 756 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: follow it. You're always thought provoking and I appreciate you 757 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: doing this. Good to talk to you, Colin. Thanks for 758 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: remembering me, and I'll see you in twenty twenty two. 759 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: You sure well. Thanks man, All right, take care, all right. 760 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: My Action Network pick of the night. I'm gonna take 761 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: Phoenix minus one to beat the Clippers. I think they 762 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: wrap up the Western Conference finals. They play with intensity, 763 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 1: don't fall behind early, aren't chasing the Clippers for three 764 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: and a half hours. I'll take the Suns to win 765 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: by three or four points. And there we go, my 766 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: Action Network pick of the week. Thanks for listening. Great podcast. 767 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: Sam Smith has all sorts of interesting stuff at The Volume, Sports, Twitter, 768 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: and Instagram. Rate review and subscribe. We'll talk soon. The 769 00:42:59,040 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: Volume