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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and we both have antlers on our head and

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Speaker 2: this is stuff you.

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Speaker 1: Should Just a couple of wooded pagans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited about this one man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we'll reference some previous episodes. We covered

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Speaker 1: WICCA and our witchcraft up and there's some Alistair Crowley

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Speaker 1: in here, of course. Yeah, for sure, you knew he

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Speaker 1: was going to make an appearance, and it seems like

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Speaker 1: there was something else too. But well, if you want

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Speaker 1: the full picture, you know, go back and listen to

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Speaker 1: all those together. Just for a spooky Why don't I

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Speaker 1: say spooky? This is not even spooky. That's the whole problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Conception.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's so ingrained that even have to know

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Speaker 2: about it. You know, it's hard not to just shake that.

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Speaker 1: I was a church kid, I was raised Baptist Pagans.

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Speaker 1: We're spooky, they killed the sacrifice things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I ran across a couple of websites, Christian websites

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Speaker 2: that essentially still think all of the same things that

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Speaker 2: the church originally said about pagan's back. You know, fifteen

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Speaker 2: hundred years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's still alive and well it's cool to

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Speaker 1: know the story now, having you know, left the Baptist

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Speaker 1: Church many many years ago to finally understand like, oh,

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Speaker 1: at a certain point in history, they were just like

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Speaker 1: this is the religion and everything else is the devil.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And in retrospect looking at this now, it's like, gosh,

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Speaker 2: talk about getting your wires crossed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're talking about paganism everybody, And hats off

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Speaker 2: to Dave two first of all for helping us with this.

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Speaker 2: This is a huge, big lump of a topic that

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Speaker 2: almost every one of the things we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about could be broken out into its own episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we're gonna have to summarize in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get a lot of stuff wrong. So

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Speaker 2: apologies already to all of our pagan listeners out there,

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Speaker 2: and let us know, correct us about what we do

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Speaker 2: get wrong. But we're going to try our best not

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Speaker 2: to get stuff wrong because it's a really interesting set

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Speaker 2: of religions. We should say, that's what paganism is. It's

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Speaker 2: not a religion, it's a set of typically nature based

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Speaker 2: religions that before the original ancient paganism predated any of

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Speaker 2: what we call the Abrahamic religions, the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity,

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Speaker 2: and Islam. And that's my definition of paganism.

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Speaker 1: Can we stop there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't gotten anything wrong so far.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, Well you mentioned those religions, and it's

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Speaker 1: pretty key to mention the Abrahamic religions because basically anything

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Speaker 1: else outside of that was considered pagan. Historically, the word

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Speaker 1: pagan actually was pretty much an insultant firs first, when

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Speaker 1: Christianity was on the rise, and we'll talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about that here in a second. In the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 1: if you did not convert to Christianity Christianity, you were

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Speaker 1: called paganas, which is Latin for country dweller, which is

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Speaker 1: basically like, hey, if you're not a Christian, you're a

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Speaker 1: bumpkin aka pagan which is interesting.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's definitely interesting. It's funny because that means

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Speaker 2: that at some point in time, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: when that happened, Christianity suddenly leapt forward as like a

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Speaker 2: sophisticated thing, which is so the tables basically turned because

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Speaker 2: originally some of the Greek or actually Roman pagans were

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Speaker 2: very suspicious of Christianity and said all sorts of libelist

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Speaker 2: things against them, and then as Christianity rose to prominence,

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Speaker 2: it used that same playbook against pagans. But yeah, it

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Speaker 2: makes sense that it's like you were considered a hick

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Speaker 2: or not up to date if you were still a

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Speaker 2: pagan once Christianity became a thing in the Roman Empire.

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Speaker 1: I think Bumpkin summed it up nicely.

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Speaker 2: I thought so too. I like Bumpkin, cause it's like

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Speaker 2: it's an insult, but it's just so round and happy

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Speaker 2: that it's hard to be angered by it if somebody

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Speaker 2: calls you a bumpkin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for some reason, Bumpkin does have just sort of

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Speaker 1: a like, I feel like bumpkins are.

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Speaker 2: Happy, right, they don't care what you think of them.

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Speaker 1: All right, So should we talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: you know, there's kind of two parts of this. There's

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Speaker 1: ancient paganism, which is one thing that we're going to

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Speaker 1: speak about now, and then later we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about modern paganism. But the kind of

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Speaker 1: key distinction here is modern paganism isn't like, hey, we

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Speaker 1: just brought back everything they were doing back then because

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Speaker 1: it went away for a long time, and now we're

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Speaker 1: going to do that same stuff. It was, you know,

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Speaker 1: inspired by some of this stuff. But as you'll see,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of text survived. So modern paganism is

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Speaker 1: basically its own new thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll talk about where it came from. But

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of well just incorrect facts on the

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Speaker 2: Internet that basically says this tradition has continued uninterrupted. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in secret. It had to be driven into secret by

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Speaker 2: the rise of Christianity. That just does not seem to

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Speaker 2: be true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but if we're going to go back to ancient paganism,

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Speaker 1: we can talk about some of the different elements of because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, this is a lot of different things

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Speaker 1: that they're wrapped up under the term paganism. But animism

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Speaker 1: is the first one, and that is the belief that

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Speaker 1: every object on the planet basically has a spirit. People do,

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Speaker 1: my dog does, your dog does, which I totally believe,

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Speaker 1: the rivers, trees, everything in nature does, animate or inanimate,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's called animism. And they thought that

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Speaker 1: nature can be like a great thing, it can help

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Speaker 1: protect us or it can be a dangerous thing. It

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Speaker 1: can cause us harm, and it's up to us to

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Speaker 1: influence that through sacrifice and these rituals that we perform.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, A good example of this, just real quick, is

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Speaker 2: there's no absolute good and evil. That's one of those

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Speaker 2: Abrahamic religious ideas, and paganism does not believe in that. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, if you are crossing a raging river, that

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Speaker 2: river might kill you and drown you, but it's not

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Speaker 2: like the river is evil and wants to do that.

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Speaker 2: It just can happen. So there's a risk, but it

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Speaker 2: can also be a neutral thing. You can increase your

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Speaker 2: chances of successfully crossing that river by maybe praying to

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Speaker 2: it the spirit or the god of that river, or

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Speaker 2: maybe offering a sacrifice. But it's not there's no evil

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Speaker 2: rivers in any of the pagan religions except for the

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Speaker 2: river sticks. Yeah. I guess maybe, but I think even

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Speaker 2: then it's not necessarily absolutely evil.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, We've got shamanism, which is sort of like animism

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Speaker 1: plus animism with a mascot, and that the shaman is

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Speaker 1: the person who steps forward and says, all right, we've

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Speaker 1: got all these objects that have spirits and I'm the

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Speaker 1: person that can communicate with them. I will enter a trance,

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Speaker 1: may take some drugs, maybe a little singing and dancing

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Speaker 1: to get there, don't you worry about that. But I'll

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Speaker 1: get there in that trance state, and I'll be able

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Speaker 1: to communicate with these spirits like go through me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the singing and dancing is subsequent to

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Speaker 2: taking the drugs.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I went to a raver two in my day.

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Speaker 2: Exactly every single person there was a shaman at that moment.

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Speaker 1: At this is what it felt like at the time,

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Speaker 1: probably right.

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Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things just from the ancient

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Speaker 2: pagan religions that are still carried on today. Ancestor worship

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Speaker 2: is another big one, Yeah, especially as we'll see in

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Speaker 2: the neo pagan Norse traditions. But it's essentially you can

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Speaker 2: see evidence of this and the fact that we buried

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Speaker 2: people in the way that we started burying people as

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Speaker 2: if they're venerated, as if we understand that they need

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Speaker 2: grave goods because there's an afterlife, and so it's not

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Speaker 2: like a hard leap to the idea that those ancestors

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Speaker 2: can help us out now that they're in the spirit world.

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Speaker 2: And so you can worship them. That's a big part

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Speaker 2: of it too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, then we're going to get into this

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Speaker 1: whole idea that and something I found that looking through

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Speaker 1: a lot of these pagan rights and religions is that

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Speaker 1: they looked at women very differently than early Christian and

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Speaker 1: some might even argue late Christian religions do, and that

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Speaker 1: women were worshiped and venerated. The earth Mother was a

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Speaker 1: big part of the early deities and worshiped. And they

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Speaker 1: found venus figurines, these clay and stone figures from like

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Speaker 1: thirty five thousand years ago that are clearly like probably

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Speaker 1: used in fertility rights because they have you know, exaggerated

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Speaker 1: breasts on these figures and wide hips, and so the

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Speaker 1: whole idea of the earth Mother has been around for

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Speaker 1: a long long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you can pretty clearly demonstrate that the

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Speaker 2: earth Mother eventually evolved into Gaia from the Greek pantheon.

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Speaker 2: Guya is the mom of all the other gods, which

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Speaker 2: brings up to another point polytheism. It's not monotheistic. There

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Speaker 2: is not one single god. Even if there's a head

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Speaker 2: of the gods like say Zeus or Odin or something

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Speaker 2: like that. There's still plenty of other gods who are gods.

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Speaker 2: They're not saints, they're not angels, they're not assistants, they

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Speaker 2: are gods in and of themselves. And so Polytheism is

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Speaker 2: a huge, huge part of any pagan religion, ancient or

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Speaker 2: modern too.

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Speaker 1: And I've never looked into this, but I mean, the

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Speaker 1: idea of Mother Nature that probably kind is kind of

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Speaker 1: a trickle down from goddess Mother Earth Mother, right.

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Speaker 2: I would think so too, Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just taking a stab at that though.

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Speaker 2: So you gotta be right, you know. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: not like that was just coincidental. Somebody came up with

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Speaker 2: that in the sixties or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: What about sacrifice, the stuff that Pagans don't like to

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Speaker 2: talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is a can of worms that

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Speaker 1: you know, we can't fully open because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of debate about how much sacrifice there has been in

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Speaker 1: all religions throughout ancient world history. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: these the people that say, like, oh, they were just

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Speaker 1: killing babies left and right, are written by the enemies

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Speaker 1: of these people, in this case, Christian and Roman accounts

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Speaker 1: about how widespread it would be because they're trying to

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Speaker 1: paint them in a certain way. But there definitely has

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Speaker 1: been sacrifice, whether it was human or your finest crop

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Speaker 1: or your best sheep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we know for a fact that Germanic

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Speaker 2: and Celtic tribes sacrificed humans. Just from the presence of

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Speaker 2: bog bodies in the state that they were, the way

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Speaker 2: that they died, they're pretty much proof positive that there

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Speaker 2: was sacrifice. And even outside of Europe. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: know the Inca Maiden, the lu Laya, you know, lou

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Speaker 2: Lailo lu Layelo.

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Speaker 1: I think you mean Leilani the maiden.

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Speaker 2: You remember the Inca maiden that has like your knees

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Speaker 2: pulled up her chest and she looks sleeping. But she

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Speaker 2: was sacrificed five hundred years ago. I mean, like it

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Speaker 2: did happen, but the idea that it was widespread, or

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Speaker 2: that they like drank baby's blood or that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 2: that was the exaggeration that really kind of were smears.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I finally watched it the other day.

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Speaker 1: It was about a month ago, I guess, the mel Gibson.

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Speaker 2: Apocalypto.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd never seen that. For some reason, I finally

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Speaker 1: watched it.

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Speaker 2: How was it?

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Speaker 1: Did you see it?

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Speaker 2: No, but I've seen the scene that made you think

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was pretty good. You know. I'm not

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Speaker 1: like championing Mel Gibson, of course, but I just hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen that movie. And I had a I guess Emily

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Speaker 1: was clearly not with me, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I've got a window and it popped up and I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I never saw that. Let

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Speaker 1: me check it out. Very gross in gory in its depictions,

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Speaker 1: but you know it was okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mel Gibson is basically into snuff porn, like, he

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Speaker 2: loves that stuff. Have you ever seen We Were Soldiers?

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Speaker 1: I did not see that, But that's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: pretty gory too, right.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the most violent, yeah, glorious war movies

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now I've seen The Guns of Navarone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh was that Telly Sabalis?

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Speaker 2: Now he was in the Dirty Dozen, that's what you think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a good or forced in from Navarone

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Speaker 1: was seeing that one too.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he was one, he was definitely

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Speaker 2: in the Dirty Dozen. That was a great one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, We're getting away from off topic here though,

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Speaker 1: because we need to talk about idol worship and tree worship.

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Speaker 1: That's another pretty common element and a lot of different

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Speaker 1: pagan religions. You know, it's right there in the Ten Commandments,

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Speaker 1: do not worship false idols. Idolatry was a big no

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Speaker 1: no to Christians, and that's basically any physical representation of

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Speaker 1: a God or a spirit. We usually, you know, growing

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Speaker 1: up Baptist thought him of his like statues and stuff

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Speaker 1: from biblical stories, but it can be a rock or something.

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Speaker 1: And then trees. Trees are big in many, many, most

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Speaker 1: pagan religions. They love their trees.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they love them for sure. So yeah, those are

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Speaker 2: some high points or basics, I guess is a better

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Speaker 2: way to put it, of ancient pagan religions. And because

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Speaker 2: as we said before, there's not really a lot that

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Speaker 2: survived from the ancients to today, a lot of that

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Speaker 2: stuff has been gleaned by archaeologists anthropologists, and it's from

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Speaker 2: that base of knowledge that modern Pagans draw from to

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Speaker 2: create the newer versions of the pagan religions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like a break time, right, yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So all right, we'll take a break, and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and talk about when Christianity decided that's it. We're

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Speaker 1: going to change the narrative right after this, all right,

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Speaker 1: So we promised talk of Christianity stamping out Paganism, or

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Speaker 1: trying to at least, and that started with Constantine, who

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Speaker 1: was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity officially.

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Speaker 1: I think you sort of hinted earlier that Christianity was

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Speaker 1: a pretty smallish persecuted sect of people at first, until

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Speaker 1: Constantine came along and said, actually, I'm Christian now, and

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Speaker 1: all the other Roman elites were like, well, off, Constantine

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Speaker 1: the Emperor's Christian, then maybe we should look into this

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Speaker 1: a little more.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so the tide turned on Pagans basically right

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Speaker 2: out of the gate. But Constantine himself didn't do anything

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Speaker 2: to persecute He didn't use his official position as emperor

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Speaker 2: to persecute pagans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he did his to in the pool publicly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So actually I think he was fully

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Speaker 2: immersed in the baptismal font instead. Well yeah, his son, though,

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Speaker 2: went full boar after Pagan's and outlawed Paganism. He passed

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Speaker 2: the first Laws Constantineous Constantius, not Constantinople Constantius. Yes. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he passed the first laws that made paganism and practices

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Speaker 2: of paganism illegal. It was basically amounted to any public

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Speaker 2: displays of paganism were outlawed. But not too long after

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Speaker 2: a couple of decades his successor, Theodosius, he said, Christianity's

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Speaker 2: the state religion of the Roman Empire, and if you

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Speaker 2: do anything pagan, including in your own home, like your

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Speaker 2: your toast, don't let us see you go anywhere near chicken,

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Speaker 2: or you're in big trouble.

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Speaker 1: And they said, what is toast? When your bread gets

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Speaker 1: too close to the fire and it tastes better, that's doped.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't tried that.

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Speaker 1: So Christianity is on the rise. And they started to

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Speaker 1: stamp out pagan religions all over the Roman Empire through

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Speaker 1: the laws that you mentioned and through a pretty brilliant plan,

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Speaker 1: which was literally demonizing them. I never really have thought

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Speaker 1: about that word much until this is like, you know

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Speaker 1: that demon is the root there, but that's literally what

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Speaker 1: they did. They were like, you know what everyone that

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Speaker 1: you're have been worshiping, they are the devil in disguise, right,

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Speaker 1: like the literal devil Satan.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And they actually took some of the existing gods

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Speaker 2: and just basically copy pasted them into the conception of

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Speaker 2: the devil of Satan. And again keep in mind here,

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Speaker 2: these these pagan religions, they don't have anything even approximating Satan.

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Speaker 2: Like gods can be good or protective or dangerous, but

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Speaker 2: there's no like one evil polar foil to God, because

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Speaker 2: there is no one God. It's not dual, it's plural.

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Speaker 2: That's that's part of pagan religion, right, So it's ironic

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Speaker 2: that they're like, your god is Satan, and they're like

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Speaker 2: which one. They're like, the one with the horns, the

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Speaker 2: one with the antlers, right, And so that's that's basically

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Speaker 2: how the modern conception of Satan came along. And so

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Speaker 2: basically any god would just be equated with evil, with

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Speaker 2: a demon, with Satan himself. And if you were caught

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Speaker 2: practicing this, now you started to risk being killed by

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Speaker 2: the people in charge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they found this one pretty prominent Celtic gods. Yeah yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: ce r In you in in.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's a yeah, it's like a mashup of

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Speaker 2: Michael Sarah, John Cena, and John Sanunu.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Man, I almost said it wrong again. Sir Nunas was,

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Speaker 1: like I said, a prominent Celtic god and had it

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Speaker 1: was the antler god had antlers. And they basically look

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Speaker 1: back now and say between Sir Nunos and the Greek

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Speaker 1: god Pan, like, it's not a far leap to go

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Speaker 1: from antlers to horns. And that was basically the probably

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Speaker 1: the model for the Christian devil that you know, once

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Speaker 1: they decided, hey, we're just going to be binary from.

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Speaker 2: Now on, right, But the Sir Nunos is wearing antlers

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Speaker 2: because they were They indicated protectiveness, not necessarily of humans,

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Speaker 2: but of the forest and the countryside. And you could

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Speaker 2: be in Sir Nunosi's good graces by taking care of

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Speaker 2: those things, or you could run a foul of Sir Nunos.

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Speaker 2: And if you say, just stepped on a bunch of

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Speaker 2: docks for no good reason. Yeah, but that he became

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Speaker 2: Satan eventually, or he was one of the ones. I

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Speaker 2: think they went basically local religion by local religion and

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Speaker 2: then identified who could be Satan and then demonized them

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Speaker 2: and all the others.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that makes sense. Like who do they identify with, Like,

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Speaker 1: who's going to scare them?

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Speaker 2: Exactly? So, now, because your god, your ancient pagan god,

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Speaker 2: is Satan. If you are caught worshiping that god, or

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Speaker 2: any god or any kind of polytheistic pagan religion, you're

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Speaker 2: now in league with the devil. And again you can

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Speaker 2: be put to death for that kind of thing. And

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Speaker 2: that developed into which trials, the Inquisition, all sorts of

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Speaker 2: terrible stuff that was essentially the Christian Church persecuting in

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Speaker 2: an effort to stamp out it's like any local rival religions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, stamp out is one thing they did, and

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Speaker 1: you know, with the Christian armies and colonialism and missionaries,

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Speaker 1: that was what they were doing all over the West.

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Speaker 1: And then what they couldn't stamp out or I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was what they couldn't stamp out, but

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Speaker 1: they were stamping out everything they wanted to. And then

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Speaker 1: they also said, but actually this Halloween and Christmas Easter

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Speaker 1: are pretty fun, and those are pagan you know based,

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Speaker 1: So we're just gonna tweak those and make them our own.

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Speaker 1: Because who doesn't like Halloween?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody likes Halloween. Which started out as Sowin as

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Speaker 2: we'll see. I think we've talked about that probably fifteen times. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know what I think actually triggered this me thinking

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Speaker 2: of this topic.

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Speaker 1: What movie?

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Speaker 2: No, it was Easter I was thinking about. I happened

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Speaker 2: to be up and out around sunrise on Easter and

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Speaker 2: it reminded me, as a kid, being raised Catholic, of

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Speaker 2: going to Sunrise mass in Eastern Yeah, and I was like, dude,

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Speaker 2: you're standing there celebrating a religious service, watching the sun

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Speaker 2: rise on a specific day in the spring. Like it

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Speaker 2: is so pagan based, and it's like in every single way,

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Speaker 2: I think even Easter is like a shift or an

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Speaker 2: adaptation of like oh Stare, which I believe was one

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Speaker 2: of the Polytheiets pagan gods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like it was.

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Speaker 2: It's just there out in the open basically, and that

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Speaker 2: made me wonder about the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, growing up in Stone Mountain, Georgia, the

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Speaker 1: most dedicated would hike up Stone Mountain in the in

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Speaker 1: the dead of night to go to the sunrise service

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Speaker 1: on top of Stone Mountain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So they were basically stamping with one foot, giving back

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Speaker 2: rubs with the other other with their hands stamp stamp

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Speaker 2: rub rob That's what the Christians did to basically win

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Speaker 2: the pr war of the religions and take over. Essentially.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're looking at the pagan comeback, which we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into now, you can go back to

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Speaker 1: the Renaissance when they said, Hey, the Greek and Roman

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Speaker 1: philosophers and all those books they were writing, it's like

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Speaker 1: super interesting, we're into that stuff again. And we have

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Speaker 1: the printing press now, so we can really print this

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Speaker 1: stuff up and disseminate it. And there were Renaissance painters

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Speaker 1: painting all these amazing romantic paintings of like mythological creatures

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Speaker 1: and gods. And then the Enlightenment came along and said Renaissance,

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Speaker 1: hold my meed.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, the Enlightenment was like, in a couple of

402
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Speaker 2: strange ways, it was really fertile ground for like an

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Speaker 2: interest in paganism to come along. For one, the Enlightenment

404
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Speaker 2: thinkers just essentially as a first step, just rejected Christianity

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Speaker 2: and monotheism in particular. And they also were like, I

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Speaker 2: really like the philosophy of these ancient Greeks and ancient Romans.

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Speaker 2: They were polytheistic. Maybe I could be too, So it

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Speaker 2: kind of aroused like an intellectual interest in that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But it also it created an interest in paganism in

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Speaker 2: a different way too, because the Enlightenment created such rational

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Speaker 2: thinking that some people were kind of repelled by it

413
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Speaker 2: and they're like, I'm going to go seek answers and

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Speaker 2: purpose in nature instead. And yeah, probably more than anything,

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Speaker 2: is how the Enlightenment led to an interest in paganism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And also I thought it was super interesting how

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Speaker 1: much the arts played into all this. You know, I

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Renaissance painters, but also Romantic poets like you

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Speaker 1: can't read Wordsworth and Keats and Shelley without like wanting

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Speaker 1: to go out into the woods and like be among nature.

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Speaker 1: There were very just very moving poems about the world,

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Speaker 1: the natural world around us, and the sort of unseen

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Speaker 1: magic in nature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you've never wanted to take your clothes off in

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Speaker 2: the woods? Read some Keats, right, See how you feel

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Speaker 2: after that?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not a big naked in the I'm not

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Speaker 1: a big naked guy period. I think it's been established,

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Speaker 1: but probably because of the Baptist upbringing. But I feel

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Speaker 1: too vulnerable out there in the woods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I get that there's mosquitoes and beetles

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Speaker 2: and those worms that crawl up your pehle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just you can find me in my skivvies

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Speaker 1: at least are you a never nude? Yeah? I shower

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Speaker 1: in a bathing suit in cut off gene. Yeah, to

436
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: cut off. So man, it's so great.

437
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: What else?

438
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: Oh?

439
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: Oh, there was another thing that kind of created it

440
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: might it might have grown out of this interest essentially,

441
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: like kind of scholarship on paganism. Yeah, some was good.

442
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: Some was the kind of stuff that you would equate

443
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: with finding on the History Channel today. You know.

444
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: That was in the article and we talked about it

445
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: a little bit offline. I did not know. I don't

446
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: watch enough History Channel. I thought the History Channel was

447
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: just like we used to call it the War Channel

448
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: because it was always just black and white World War

449
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: Two documentaries. But I know there is another side of

450
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: the History Channel where with the alien sky, like did

451
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: they have a lot of that kind of stuff?

452
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty much all Yeah, that is it?

453
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: Really okay?

454
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much, And I think it has been that

455
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 2: way for a really long time. And I mean not

456
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: to bag on the History Channel. It's interesting, but I

457
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: guess what I'm equating it to is really interesting unsupported

458
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: theories that like, if you're an actual scientist and you

459
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 2: look into it, you're like, this is just made up.

460
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: They're trying to make the entertaining television basically.

461
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: Yes, but the problem is is they present it factually

462
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: and it gets taken factually by a lot of people.

463
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: So they've caused a lot of problems. They essentially have

464
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: ruined the world single handedly.

465
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: The History Channel has well I'm glad I know this

466
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: because I'm going to stop saying, well, the History Channel,

467
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: I said.

468
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: Its top that.

469
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah. There were a couple of key people

470
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: that came out of this that you kind of referenced.

471
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: One was a guy named James Fraser. He was an

472
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: anthropologist who wrote a book, very influential book in eighteen

473
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: ninety called The Golden Bow. Bo I'm sorry, yeah, you

474
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: w jesus, what's going on with me? B o U

475
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: g H.

476
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 2: I'm going with boo.

477
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 1: It's pronounced bo.

478
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 2: I think that's a History Channel type.

479
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: Okay, we're not gonna argue with this because who cares.

480
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: But that's the way it's spelled. And his argument was

481
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: that you know, all religions basically go back to this

482
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: one pagan myth about a king that was sacrificed to

483
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: bless the land with fertility, and you can kind of

484
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: trace them all back to this.

485
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so modern historians have said it's a great

486
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: theory Fraser, but it's not correct. Fraser is not a

487
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: history channel type. He was a legitimate anthropologist. And one

488
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: of the reasons the Golden Bow Bow figures in is

489
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: that he did an amazing amount of exhaustive research that

490
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: in the book he describes a lot of ancient pagan

491
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: traditions and beliefs and stuff. So The Golden Bow became

492
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: kind of like a handbook for the modern pagan movements

493
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: that followed.

494
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: Do you know what I feel like concerning here? What

495
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: the way that you pronounce the word be? Like? Why

496
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: did they get count Dracula to Who is that guy?

497
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: I don't know? What was this like a book on tape?

498
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: You heard once? No?

499
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: No, no, no, this is the YouTube guy when you

500
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: look up pronunciations. Oh oh, one, gentleman, that dogs he

501
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: came from Thrensylvan.

502
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really does, doesn't he? I never thought about it.

503
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: He's great.

504
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: Well, now this is saying bo. But I looked at

505
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: up earlier and it said bo.

506
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: Okay, boo boo.

507
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if I believe that, lady.

508
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: Like when the bow breaks, wouldn't you just sit up

509
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: and tell your mom that she got it wrong if

510
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: she's saying when the bow breaks.

511
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: I've always said bow, But you know, maybe I'm wrong

512
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 1: or maybe the internet's wrong. That'd be a first How

513
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: about boh, yeah, when the book breaks?

514
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: Uh.

515
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: And then there is a History Channel type person that

516
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: we should talk about, the Egyptologist Margaret Murray. She was

517
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: She's definitely on that side of things, right.

518
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. She came up in the Bella and the Witch

519
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: Elm episode because she was saying, like Bella was murdered

520
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: by a witch right And she's one of the people

521
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 2: who argued that the modern European witches trace their lineage

522
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: unbroken back to fertility feminist cult that's been in the

523
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: British Isles ever since time immemorial, and that that's one

524
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: of the things that's been debunked, is that it's just

525
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: not true. Like the Christian Church and in their turn,

526
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: Judaism in Islam as well, did such a thorough job

527
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 2: of interrupting the transmission from the ancient world to the

528
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: modern world that it's just like that's just not really possible. Now,

529
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: that's not to say that like in certain like super

530
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: you know, rural local areas, there's like not folk traditions

531
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: that actually do date back really far. I mean, everybody's

532
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: seen wicker Man, right, But the thing is, like, like

533
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: Wickerman would be actually a bad example because that like

534
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: is an actual ritual. They knew exactly what they were doing,

535
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: they were performing rites that kind of stuff. This would

536
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: be more like, hey, we're dancing around the may pole,

537
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: but we don't necessarily know every single thing that's going on.

538
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: We're not performing every single aspect of this ancient ritual.

539
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: Even though the ritual in some form or fashion still

540
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: survive today, it's not the full the full Monty, it's

541
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: not the full manty of the actual pagan folk religion

542
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: that they're they're kind of venerating. Still, yeah, does that

543
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: make sense?

544
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely? Okay, should we take our second break?

545
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah?

546
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take that break and we're gonna

547
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: move into the world of modern paganism right after this.

548
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Well, by the way, Chuck, you, me and I have

549
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: a friend named Alex Mary who's an artist and she

550
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: does something called Morris dancing, and a lot of the

551
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: Morris dances like resemble paganism, like there's sometimes there's antlers

552
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. But also, more than anything, reminds

553
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: me of stuff they would have done in that A

554
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: twenty four movie Midsommer, and it's basically like folk dancing

555
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: that dates back to like the fifteenth century and probably before,

556
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: but they can definitely trace it back that far. I

557
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: was asking her about paganism. She's like, Nope, not a

558
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: pagan I'm a Morris dancer.

559
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: That's super cool. Yeah, And not to get off topic,

560
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: but since you brought up a twenty four I just

561
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: have to shout out their newest weird comedy from Tim Robinson.

562
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, actually not from Tim Robinson, he's in it.

563
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: But the movie Friendship I can highly recommend. And I

564
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: went to the opening eleven am screening in Atlanta and

565
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: my friend, because you love Tim Robinson, you'll be glad

566
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: to know. At Phipps Plaza at eleven am on a Friday,

567
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: there were probably twenty five to thirty like Tim Robinson

568
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: fans in there. Nice at that first showing.

569
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: Was it rowdy?

570
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been a long time since I've

571
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: seen a crowded and it was crowded because it was

572
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: probably a fifty person theater, so it was seventy percent full.

573
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: A crowded like movie with other people, like a comedy

574
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: where just a bunch of people are laughing at once,

575
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: and it was so much fun.

576
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: That's awesome, man, it was great. I wish I could

577
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: have gone.

578
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: I wish you could have gone too.

579
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, are talking about what modern paganism.

580
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we mentioned, you know, in several different ways

581
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: that modern paganism is its own thing. One of the

582
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: reasons why it's its own thing is because they just

583
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: didn't write down a lot of stuff back then. And

584
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: stuff that was written down, it wasn't like the literal,

585
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: detailed handbook of how to do this ritual this right,

586
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: that's pretty rare. Yeah, So that's one of the reasons,

587
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: and it was all stamped out. Some of the stuff

588
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: that we've gotten modern wise comes from these Icelandic or

589
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: maybe all of it, these Icelandic texts called the Eda's,

590
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: Is that right.

591
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. As far as Norse religions, Norse pagan religions that

592
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: fall under the umbrella term Heathenism. This is where they

593
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 2: get all their stuff. Yeah, I don't know if it's

594
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: Das or Eda's. I think I agreed too soon. Okay, Okay,

595
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: maybe as that and then the Viking sagas, and so

596
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: the Viking sagas aren't like you said, it's not a

597
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: handbook of how to worship Norse gods, but just mentions

598
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: of it, like incidental references to stuff like that. The

599
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: neo Pagans who worship Norse gods have kind of taken that,

600
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: glean from that what some of these rituals and thoughts

601
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: and mythologies were.

602
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not going to talk about all modern

603
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: pagan religions, but we're gonna mention if you know, we're

604
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: going to highlight a few. We have to talk briefly

605
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: at least about their medic Order of the Golden Dawn.

606
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: But again, if you want to hear a lot about that,

607
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: listen to our Alistair, a really good episode, I think

608
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley episode. Yeah, this was the secret society that

609
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: Aleister Crowley was a member of. He was never the leader,

610
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: right or was he just sort of a.

611
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: I think he did break off and try to become

612
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: a leader at some point.

613
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: I don't remember. Yeah, maybe I should go back and

614
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: listen to it.

615
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: I don't remember either. But their whole thing, the reason

616
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: we mentioned them is they were probably the first what

617
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: you could consider modern pagan religion. They practiced magic and

618
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: they were into the Egyptian cult stuff. Yeah, so that's

619
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: why we bring them up there. I don't think there's

620
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: too many Golden Dawn people running around, but I guarantee

621
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: there are some.

622
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's got to be.

623
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: What about Wicca.

624
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about wick and our Witchcraft episode that

625
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: was from a long time and ago, though, so it

626
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: may not be our best.

627
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: Work, No, I would. That's one that would probably be

628
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: pretty good to redo someday.

629
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: We're not going to read this stuf't fine Modern Witchcraft

630
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: or wicka Wicca. Originally it was Wica as named by

631
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: a guy named Gerald Gardner, who was a British customs

632
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: official who worked in Malaysia then came back to England

633
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six, wrote a bunch of Golden Dawn stuff,

634
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of Alistair Crowley stuff, a bunch of Margaret

635
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: Murray stuff, our History Channel lady. And he said, you

636
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: know what, one night in nineteen thirty nine, a covin

637
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: of witches initiated me, and they were members of this

638
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: ancient fertility cult that I read about from Margaret Murray.

639
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it depends on who you talk to. Gardner

640
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: might either be described as a huckster who made all

641
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: this up, or a very gentle man. I saw somebody

642
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: describe him who knew him as utterly without malice, may

643
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: have made all this up. But he was known for

644
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: writing what's called the Book of Shadows, which has become

645
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: a big part of the wick and religion, which is

646
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 2: essentially a personal recipe book of spells and rituals that

647
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: has worked for a particular witch or coven, and sometimes

648
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: it's shared and people can borrow from it and add

649
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: to it and they create their own Book of Shadows,

650
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: but having your own basically, you know in those Bugs

651
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: Bunny cartoons where that witch is like looking through her

652
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: book that would technically be a book of shadows that

653
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: she's looking through to find like the ingredients for her

654
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: potions or whatever. That's a pretty literally cartoonish depiction of it,

655
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: but that's, you know, essentially what she was doing.

656
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: My favorite part is when she would leave the frame

657
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: very quickly, and her hairpins would fall out, her hair

658
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: float in the air.

659
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: She was one of the most disturbing cartoon characters of

660
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: all time if you ask me, man, Yeah, like she was.

661
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: She had the high pitched voice, and didn't she have

662
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: like kind of a red cousin it type who wore

663
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 2: like tennis shoes. He was a little off putting as well.

664
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: I don't remember that, but if I saw it, I'd

665
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: probably know it.

666
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, yeah, the witch from Bugs Bunny.

667
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: That's right. But back to Wickens. They became very popular

668
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies with the feminist set and

669
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: the environmentalist set, and there's still the Gerald Gardner focused.

670
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: They call it gardenerian wicca. But if you're out at

671
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 1: the seven eleven and you meet a modern Wickan, she's

672
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: probably practicing what's called dianic wicca, which is small woman centered.

673
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: It came around in nineteen seventy one by wicked activist

674
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: name not Susannah but Susanna Budapest. Great name.

675
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't until twenty I think fifteen that

676
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: Susanna Budapest indoctrined her first male clergy member into dianic

677
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 2: wicca and other Dianic Wicca temples split off, and so

678
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: it's it's rare to find a man. And in this religion,

679
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 2: like it's all women. And I read that they're anti patriarchy.

680
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: They actually try to use their magic against the patriarchy.

681
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: But they're not anti male. The reason that they exclude

682
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: males is because their religion is created to celebrate and

683
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: honor the life cycles, the biological cycles in a lot

684
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: of cases of a woman as she's born and then

685
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: ages and then dies, and that essentially there's not a

686
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: lot of role for men in that religion. But yeah,

687
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: you know, you guys, go form your own stuff. Go

688
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: become druids, I think is their motto.

689
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's a little dinner party factoid. If someone

690
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: brings up wicking it around the table, you can say, hey,

691
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: did you know that it was actually first recognized as

692
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: a true religion in nineteen eighty six in the United

693
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: States when the Supreme Court ruled and debtmer v. Landen.

694
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: You don't have to know that part, but you could

695
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: really knock their socks off if you do. It was

696
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: where a prisoner was denied the use of ritual ritual

697
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: Wiccan objects and they're like, hey, this is my religious

698
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: stuff and the First Amendment protects this, and the Supreme

699
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: Court said, you know what, you're right.

700
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably a liberal court.

701
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: Right.

702
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: One other thing I gotta say, I ran across the

703
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: UK finally suspended their witchcraft laws. They're bans against practicing

704
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: witchcraft in nineteen fifty one, which is why Gerald Gardner's

705
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: books start popping up in the fifties, even though he'd

706
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: been doing this since the late thirties.

707
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: Mile isn't that interesting, Like he.

708
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 2: Could have been arrested and thrown in prison for practicing

709
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: witchcraft before nineteen fifty one.

710
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: Wow. All right, So those were sort of the big

711
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: heavy hitters that were the first big ones that of

712
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: modern paganism when it staged its comeback. But there are

713
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: dozens of other smaller, much smaller modern pagan movements. Wick

714
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: is definitely the largest, but heathenry is one of them,

715
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: which is basically a umbrella term for people who, like

716
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: you mentioned the Norse and Germanic deities. They're really into Marvel, I.

717
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: Guess Marvel and Lord of the Rings. Like if you

718
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: thought led Zeppelin was into Lord of the Rings, may

719
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: introduce yourself to a heathen like, they are into that stuff. Yeah,

720
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: and I think the two biggest Germanic Heathen religions actually,

721
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: I guess I don't even think they're sex but one

722
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: is true. They worship the Acr gods, who would be

723
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: the highest of the pantheon of Norse mythology, like Odin

724
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 2: and Thor, and so people who are into Asatru are

725
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: very much into honor and valor and getting into Valhalla.

726
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 2: And then there's the Vanatru, which they're concerned with the

727
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: Veneer gods, who are the rest of the gods who

728
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: are more earthy, more nature based. They're into prosperity, that

729
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. And I think there's way more Asatru

730
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 2: than Vanatru right now. And then one other thing about Heathenism.

731
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: There's a really interesting kind of side history that you

732
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: can go look up about the black metal scene, specifically

733
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 2: the Norwegian black metal scene that essentially turned into turned

734
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: their focus from satanism like traditional metal to heathenry, and

735
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: so you've got like folk metal, Viking metal, like they

736
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 2: essentially just became heathens but metal, and it just got

737
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: really out of hand in the early nineties. It was

738
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: really interesting stuff.

739
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I don't know if we could get

740
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: a whole episode out of this. We probably could, or

741
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: maybe a short stuff. But there was the very famous

742
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: case of well, there were there were these series of arsons,

743
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: these church arsens, like twenty of them, these very very

744
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: old wooden medieval churches in Norway that were burned down.

745
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: I think twenty of them were attributed. These arsens were

746
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: attributed to black metal fans, and a couple of the

747
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: arsonists were very prominent in the early Norwegian black metal scene.

748
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: These guys there were bandmates at first in this band Mayhem,

749
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: but I think Vargu Vicranese, sure he left Mayhem at

750
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: a certain point, but Uronymous is how this guy's known

751
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: ostein Arseth no aka Uronymous, I think stayed in this

752
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: black metal group Mayhem for the run until he was

753
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: murdered by varg.

754
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't exactly like set paganism's general public

755
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: image on fire. Well actually they kind of did. Y. Yeah,

756
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: Arsith was a Satanist. Vickernese is in addition to being

757
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: a murderer, he's avowed neo Nazi, and the whole scene

758
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 2: in particular kind of gets caught up with nationalism a lot.

759
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: So it's not a very representative make sure of paganism

760
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: as a whole or neo paganism as a whole, but

761
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 2: it's still I mean, it's just ridiculously interesting. What happened there?

762
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally mentioning, I guess, yeah, I remember when this happened,

763
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: and I just I didn't know much about I still

764
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: don't know much about that whole music scene, but it's

765
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: it's super interesting. My cousin is into it.

766
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was checking a lot of it out and

767
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 2: some of it's really good. I'm not into folk metal

768
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: though at all.

769
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: What is that? What does it sound like?

770
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: It's you know, that kind of like super proud Irish

771
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: music that's like rock from like Boston. Imagine that is

772
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: like metal or almost almost yeah or no, I'm the

773
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: so yes that that Irish like rock does from Boston.

774
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: This is like the Norwegian metal version of that.

775
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I'll listen to something, see see what it

776
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: does to me.

777
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: Okay, just look up folk metal and you'll see. But

778
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: some of the other stuff was really good, like Mayhem's

779
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: stuff was pretty interesting.

780
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: What if this changed my life and set me on?

781
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: Of course that one would never have expected, right, here

782
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: fifty four years old.

783
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: He still wearing corpse makeup.

784
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe get some antlers.

785
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, why not? Man? Why not, like really ask yourself,

786
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: why not do that?

787
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: I mean, no, no, it's no crazier than any of the

788
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: rest of them if you ask me. Yeah, uh, you

789
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: mentioned druids earlier. Kind of been passing. But that is

790
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: a modern belief system that is tied to pre Christian

791
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: British Isle sort of religion. That's where the Druids came from.

792
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I saw that Druids are a big

793
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: difference between them and others is that the nature itself

794
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: is the divine. It's not like a manifestation of God

795
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: or the goddesses or anything like. It's nature. And I

796
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: also saw that the practitioners don't really consider it a religion.

797
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: They consider it more of philosophy or a way of life.

798
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it was modern Druidry was started. I

799
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: got named Ross Nichols, and I don't know why. I

800
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: just find it funny that, like the modern Druids and

801
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: modern Wickens were started by a guys named Ross and Gerald.

802
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

803
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 1: Is that a little weird?

804
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they sound like a couple of guys who might

805
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: live in a van together.

806
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: They might who knows.

807
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: There's also ceremonial magic, which would trace itself to I

808
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: guess the Golden Dawn. There's neopaganism, which we should talk

809
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: about because a lot of people use neopaganism as a

810
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 2: term incorrectly to describe modern paganism, which is what we've

811
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: been talking about this whole time. Neopaganism itself is a

812
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 2: specific kind of pagan religion. So all neopagans are pagan,

813
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 2: but all pagans aren't neopagans. And if you basically want

814
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: to just come at this by saying I like a

815
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: little of this, I like a little of that. Oh,

816
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: I would like to do a little bit of ritual magic. Yes,

817
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: I want to go out in the woods and practice

818
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: all this stuff, then neopaganism is for you. It is

819
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: wide open. They believe that everybody's beliefs are equal. They're

820
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 2: very much opposed to the idea of absolute good and evil.

821
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 2: They're very into nature. It's pretty much, I think what

822
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: people think about when they think about modern pagan religions.

823
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: And that's neopaganism.

824
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, And if you want to know more

825
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: about that, there's a great site called neo paganism dot org.

826
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: They seem to be pretty authoritative on it.

827
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: They should be with that website. That'd be a real

828
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: shame if they weren't.

829
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in comic sane. And just one other thing

830
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 2: about neopaganism. I think I said that a lot of

831
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: people that's what they think of, but they might be

832
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 2: saying WICKA when they're talking about neopaganism. There's big differences

833
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: between those two. Wicka is very magical based. The intent

834
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: is to harness the power of nature to get something done,

835
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: like get a job successfully, or make someone fall in

836
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: love with you, whatever. And WICKA is very very much esoteric.

837
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 2: So that means that there's a set amount of knowledge

838
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: out there. There's hidden mystery knowledge in the universe that

839
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: if you are an initiate into wika, like you have

840
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 2: to be initiated into a coven, and you apply yourself

841
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: in work and study, and you can have these mysteries

842
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: of the universe revealed to you. Not at all what

843
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: neo pagans believe. There's just a ton of differences. But

844
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: I mean, if any of this has floated your boat

845
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 2: and you're like, I really want to check this out.

846
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff on the internet that you

847
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: can go read up on. I would just say use

848
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: your you're just general common sense to decide what site

849
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: you're on is, whether it's legitimate or authoritative, or if

850
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: it's just some dude making stuff up.

851
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: You got to have the right font where you know

852
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: you're in.

853
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 2: Trouble exactly giveaway.

854
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: You also mentioned a great band name in there, hidden

855
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: Mystery Knowledge.

856
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: That's a good one. I feel like that's more an

857
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 2: album though, Okay, and you better believe they're gonna have

858
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: some Lord of the Rings character? Was the illustration true? Well,

859
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: if you want to know more about that stuff, like

860
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: I said, go out on the internet. And since I

861
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 2: said that and Chuck had just said true, that means

862
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: that it's time for a listener, ma'am.

863
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this popcorn cooking tip. I'm surprised I

864
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: haven't thought of. Oh okay, hey, guys, writing because I

865
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: want to tell you about my favorite way to cook

866
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: popcorn and bacon grease.

867
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've heard of that.

868
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard of it. It's just right there in

869
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: front of my face too.

870
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: You got bacon grease in front of your face.

871
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. My aunt taught me her tried and

872
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: true method for cooking popcorn in the soap top. She

873
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: puts a spoonful of bacon grease in a skillet, pours

874
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: a popcorn salt over the grease. Oh boy, plops a

875
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: couple of kernels in there and heats the whole thing up,

876
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: And when the grease is the right temperature, those kernels

877
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: are going to pop and alert you you can start

878
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: cooking for in the rest of the kernels, cover your

879
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 1: skillet and let it pop away. The bacon grease gives

880
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: a popcorn a little extra flavor. It really makes it

881
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: even more delicious. You should give it a try sometime.

882
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: Just don't forget to cover your skillet.

883
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: Okay.

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00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the years of podcasting listening pleasure you

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00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: provided for me. I wish you both the best. That

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00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: is from Randy with an Eye.

887
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Randy with an Eye. Did Randy sign

888
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: the eye with a little heart instead of a dot,

889
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: because I'd be fantastic. Yeah, thanks a lot, Randy. That

890
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: was a great tip. We appreciate it. I'm quite sure

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00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 2: everybody who loves popcorn and bacon that's listening appreciated that.

892
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: If you want to be like Randy and send us

893
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: a tip that everybody can appreciate, you can send it

894
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.