1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,300 Speaker 1: All right, Chuck here winding it down with number 11. 2 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: We wanted to finish on an odd number because odd 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,940 Speaker 1: things are weird. And this is the SYSK Gets Weird playlist. 4 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: The Story of the Nuclear Boy Scout. What a great episode. 5 00:00:16,460 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy it. I enjoyed it listening 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,579 Speaker 1: to it in QA the other day all over again. 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: So listen to it right now. The Story of the 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:31,670 Speaker 1: Nuclear Boy Scout. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a 9 00:00:31,690 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 10 00:00:36,659 --> 00:00:41,940 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,700 Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And this is a good old-fashioned 12 00:00:44,740 --> 00:00:48,300 Speaker 2: barn burner of a Stuff You Should Know type topic. Woo! 13 00:00:48,450 --> 00:00:48,970 Speaker 1: Whiz-bang! 14 00:00:49,370 --> 00:00:53,750 Speaker 2: Chuck, somebody sent this in as a suggestion recently, I think, right? 15 00:00:54,410 --> 00:00:55,950 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think you and I had both 16 00:00:55,970 --> 00:00:58,350 Speaker 1: been aware of this story, but we did get a 17 00:00:58,410 --> 00:01:01,230 Speaker 1: recent suggestion from David Parcher. 18 00:01:01,430 --> 00:01:04,660 Speaker 2: Yeah, David Parcher. I think just a couple of weeks 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: ago sent in this suggestion, and look at the timing. 20 00:01:09,020 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you, David. And we're going to talk 21 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:15,259 Speaker 1: about another David. That is David Hahn, the nuclear Boy Scout. Yep. 22 00:01:15,740 --> 00:01:17,450 Speaker 1: And this is one of those where we owe a 23 00:01:17,530 --> 00:01:22,810 Speaker 1: huge debt to a single human because this story may 24 00:01:22,830 --> 00:01:27,940 Speaker 1: have just gone– Fairly unnoticed as a pretty localized local 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,259 Speaker 1: newspaper item. 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:30,220 Speaker 2: Yeah. 27 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: If it hadn't have been found by a gentleman named 28 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:37,060 Speaker 1: Ken Silverstein, who ended up writing a very large piece 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,130 Speaker 1: in Harper's Magazine and then a book called The Radioactive 30 00:01:40,150 --> 00:01:42,870 Speaker 1: Boy Scout, colon, the true story of a boy in 31 00:01:42,910 --> 00:01:47,230 Speaker 1: his backyard nuclear reactor. So big thanks to Ken. A 32 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:48,350 Speaker 1: lot of this came from your work. 33 00:01:48,830 --> 00:01:52,290 Speaker 2: Yeah, and shout out also to the journalists from the 34 00:01:52,370 --> 00:01:58,270 Speaker 2: Natural Resources News Service, which is this investigative journalist group 35 00:01:58,890 --> 00:02:02,830 Speaker 2: that just does a public good, like investigate stories and 36 00:02:02,850 --> 00:02:05,550 Speaker 2: then turn around and give them to news outlets. And 37 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:08,990 Speaker 2: apparently that's how Ken came across the story and began 38 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:12,390 Speaker 2: researching it. So there's two people that were responsible for it, 39 00:02:12,450 --> 00:02:12,850 Speaker 2: at least. 40 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:16,470 Speaker 1: Yeah, and three, because we have to count David Hahn. Yeah. 41 00:02:17,210 --> 00:02:21,380 Speaker 1: the Michigan teenager who in the 90s managed to create 42 00:02:21,530 --> 00:02:25,500 Speaker 1: a nuclear reaction in the potting shed of his mom's house. 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,660 Speaker 1: It is a story that is interesting and amazing, but 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: also very sad in its ending. 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, and technically we should thank five people because it 46 00:02:35,980 --> 00:02:40,820 Speaker 2: took Patty and Ken Hahn to reproduce and create David Hahn. 47 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:43,019 Speaker 2: So we're at five people now that we need to thank. 48 00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: All right. 49 00:02:45,139 --> 00:02:50,020 Speaker 1: So David was born October 1976. That's the year you 50 00:02:50,060 --> 00:02:50,540 Speaker 1: were born, right? 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was just a couple months older than him. 52 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:54,700 Speaker 1: Yeah. And look what this guy did. 53 00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,310 Speaker 1: What have you ever done? 55 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,170 Speaker 2: Thanks for that. 56 00:03:00,550 --> 00:03:02,150 Speaker 1: You got to hit podcast. You're not sweating it. 57 00:03:02,830 --> 00:03:03,470 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sweating. 58 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:07,109 Speaker 1: When he was a little, and we say this because 59 00:03:07,169 --> 00:03:09,650 Speaker 1: it very much figures into the end of David's story. 60 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:12,470 Speaker 1: It's very sad. But his mother, Patty, was diagnosed with 61 00:03:13,190 --> 00:03:18,709 Speaker 1: depression and paranoid schizophrenia, was hospitalized through his early childhood 62 00:03:18,810 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: off and on, and she would eventually take her own 63 00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:22,570 Speaker 1: life in 1996. 64 00:03:22,570 --> 00:03:25,820 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that will play into the story later on. 65 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: But Patty remains a character throughout most of it. So 66 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:33,300 Speaker 2: too does David's father, Ken, who we mentioned. He's person five, 67 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: we need to thank. Patty and Ken got divorced, I think, 68 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: when David was really little, like maybe a toddler. And 69 00:03:40,260 --> 00:03:44,070 Speaker 2: Ken ended up marrying a coworker, Person number six we 70 00:03:44,090 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: need to thank, Kathy Missig. Ken and Kathy were both 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: engineers at General Motors. This whole thing took place in 72 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:57,340 Speaker 2: the suburbs of Detroit, specifically Clinton Township, Michigan, specifically later 73 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,970 Speaker 2: on in a subdivision called Gulf Manor, as we'll see. 74 00:04:02,130 --> 00:04:05,510 Speaker 2: So David lives with Ken and Kathy, and then on 75 00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:08,010 Speaker 2: weekends he goes and stays with his mom, Patty, and 76 00:04:08,230 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: her boyfriend, person number seven who we need to thank, 77 00:04:11,010 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: Michael Palasek. And they're the ones I believe who lived 78 00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: in Golf Manor. And under by all accounts, like David 79 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: lived a pretty normal childhood, just doing normal childhood things. 80 00:04:23,980 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: It wasn't until he was 10 that his life found 81 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,780 Speaker 2: its purpose, which is pretty early if you think about 82 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,380 Speaker 2: it for your life to find its purpose. 83 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. And by the way, if you live in Golf Manor, 84 00:04:34,940 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: hold your emails. We know you're in Commerce Township. Yes. 85 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,029 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. I think his dad lived in 86 00:04:42,089 --> 00:04:43,570 Speaker 2: Clinton Township. Yeah. 87 00:04:43,810 --> 00:04:45,930 Speaker 1: It's probably like where I lived in New Jersey. It's 88 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:48,370 Speaker 1: like all these old townships just run together. Yeah. 89 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:49,610 Speaker 2: That's what it looked like on the map. 90 00:04:50,089 --> 00:04:53,330 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the person we really need to thank. 91 00:04:53,890 --> 00:04:55,230 Speaker 2: This is number eight, person eight. 92 00:04:56,830 --> 00:04:58,729 Speaker 1: Is like you mentioned, when Dave was 10 years old, 93 00:04:58,870 --> 00:05:02,570 Speaker 1: his step mom's father. So I guess his step grandfather, 94 00:05:02,610 --> 00:05:05,450 Speaker 1: if you count that as a thing. He was also 95 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,219 Speaker 1: an engineer at GM. He gave little David a book 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,900 Speaker 1: called The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments. And little David 97 00:05:12,940 --> 00:05:18,170 Speaker 1: was fascinated with science and chemistry, but in particular with 98 00:05:18,550 --> 00:05:22,450 Speaker 1: the stories of Mary and Pierre Curie and their radium discovery. 99 00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:26,110 Speaker 1: And the glow, I think the glow of that whole 100 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:29,230 Speaker 1: thing really enthralled this young guy. 101 00:05:29,470 --> 00:05:32,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, this book was heavily illustrated and like the instructions 102 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:35,010 Speaker 2: kind of looked, had the same look as like those 103 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:40,310 Speaker 2: Ripley's Believe It or Not comic strips almost. Totally something 104 00:05:40,330 --> 00:05:41,970 Speaker 2: that would appeal to a kid that age or a 105 00:05:41,990 --> 00:05:45,570 Speaker 2: little older. You can find it online in its entirety 106 00:05:45,630 --> 00:05:48,940 Speaker 2: as a PDF. And I looked at the illustration and 107 00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:52,220 Speaker 2: don't really know what he saw. And it's actually black 108 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,190 Speaker 2: and white. that glows to some lines coming off of 109 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:56,110 Speaker 2: a beaker or whatever. 110 00:05:56,450 --> 00:05:57,350 Speaker 1: Imagination, my friend. 111 00:05:57,390 --> 00:06:00,190 Speaker 2: For some reason, it enthralled him so much so that 112 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:04,229 Speaker 2: within two years of receiving that book, he was devouring 113 00:06:04,290 --> 00:06:08,190 Speaker 2: his father's chemistry textbooks at age 12. 114 00:06:08,190 --> 00:06:10,100 Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was, I mean, these were books that 115 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: were more advanced than his age. Clearly a smart guy. 116 00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:18,740 Speaker 1: At the age of 14, he apparently made nitroglycerin by himself, 117 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: which evidently isn't the hardest thing to do, but is 118 00:06:21,860 --> 00:06:25,500 Speaker 1: very dangerous to do. There are other stories like he 119 00:06:25,550 --> 00:06:29,049 Speaker 1: brought wanted to make his own fireworks at Boy Scout camp. 120 00:06:29,089 --> 00:06:32,650 Speaker 1: So he brought some powdered magnesium, ended up catching on 121 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:38,310 Speaker 1: fire and ruined a tent. So what else? He tried 122 00:06:38,330 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: to develop a self tanning method that didn't work out right. Yeah. 123 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,180 Speaker 2: He overdosed on canthoxanthin, which I can't remember which one, 124 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: which episode that came up in. But it's a pigment 125 00:06:49,540 --> 00:06:51,940 Speaker 2: that turns your skin orange from the inside out. And 126 00:06:51,980 --> 00:06:53,460 Speaker 2: that's what he did. He was trying to come up 127 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,820 Speaker 2: with a self-tanning method that didn't use any kind of 128 00:06:57,020 --> 00:06:57,940 Speaker 2: UV radiation. 129 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,180 Speaker 1: Yeah. No comment. 130 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 2: But he was that kind of dude. He would just 131 00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: turn up at like a scout meeting or something bright 132 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,260 Speaker 2: orange and be like, yeah, too much canthoxanthin. 133 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,180 Speaker 1: So, yeah, he's exactly that kid. He's also the kind 134 00:07:11,220 --> 00:07:17,170 Speaker 1: of kid who essentially– destroys his bedroom because he's doing science. 135 00:07:18,210 --> 00:07:21,470 Speaker 1: The walls were wrecked. The carpet was stained. They had 136 00:07:21,510 --> 00:07:24,230 Speaker 1: to move the carpet out. Eventually, his dad was like, listen, 137 00:07:25,630 --> 00:07:30,210 Speaker 1: this is getting serious. You're destroying our home. You got 138 00:07:30,230 --> 00:07:32,710 Speaker 1: to move him to the basement, first of all. And 139 00:07:32,890 --> 00:07:35,710 Speaker 1: when we're not here, you can't be in here. either. 140 00:07:36,670 --> 00:07:41,700 Speaker 1: They took away equipment. They took away some chemicals. And finally, 141 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,300 Speaker 1: they said, all right, this is out of hand. You 142 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. So he said, all right, I'll 143 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: do it like every divorced kid says, I'll do it 144 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: at the other parent's house. 145 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,510 Speaker 2: That's right. And so he did. He ended up setting 146 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:57,490 Speaker 2: up a lab in his mom's potting shed in Golf 147 00:07:57,530 --> 00:08:02,550 Speaker 2: Manor in Commerce Township. And this is where the story 148 00:08:02,590 --> 00:08:06,590 Speaker 2: really starts to kind of take off. Because his dad 149 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:15,540 Speaker 2: was getting really worried that his son was basically creating 150 00:08:15,740 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: and selling drugs. That's what he was doing with his 151 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:22,810 Speaker 2: chemistry experiments. And so he and his stepmom would drop 152 00:08:22,870 --> 00:08:24,750 Speaker 2: in on the library when he was supposedly there to 153 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:26,989 Speaker 2: see if he was there. They really did not trust 154 00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:30,710 Speaker 2: this fascination with chemistry anymore. Which I mean, I can 155 00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:33,330 Speaker 2: understand if your kid blows himself up a couple of times, 156 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:36,050 Speaker 2: you're like, what are you doing exactly here? 157 00:08:36,070 --> 00:08:36,490 Speaker 1: Yeah. 158 00:08:36,970 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: So I don't know if he knew that David went 159 00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:43,740 Speaker 2: and set up a lab in his mom's potting shed 160 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,030 Speaker 2: or not. And just was like, it's fine as long 161 00:08:47,050 --> 00:08:48,470 Speaker 2: as it's out of my house. I'm not sure. I've 162 00:08:48,510 --> 00:08:50,910 Speaker 2: never seen that either way. But one thing that he 163 00:08:50,950 --> 00:08:52,850 Speaker 2: did do to try to be like, OK, I think 164 00:08:52,890 --> 00:08:55,510 Speaker 2: you're creating drugs. You're probably on them. You may or 165 00:08:55,530 --> 00:08:57,209 Speaker 2: may not be selling them. None of those seem to 166 00:08:57,270 --> 00:08:59,189 Speaker 2: be true from what I can tell. You need to 167 00:08:59,230 --> 00:09:02,010 Speaker 2: become an Eagle Scout. And he pushed his son to 168 00:09:02,030 --> 00:09:02,939 Speaker 2: become an Eagle Scout. 169 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's exactly what he did, as we will 170 00:09:06,179 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: later find out. But when it came time for merit 171 00:09:09,179 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: badge selection, he said, I want the one that says 172 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:18,770 Speaker 1: atomic energy. And the Scoutmaster said, I think he told 173 00:09:19,090 --> 00:09:22,729 Speaker 1: the writer of the book, no one had ever chosen 174 00:09:22,750 --> 00:09:24,030 Speaker 1: that before in the history of the troop. 175 00:09:24,429 --> 00:09:24,609 Speaker 2: Right. 176 00:09:25,210 --> 00:09:27,050 Speaker 1: So it kind of reminds me of the Brian Cox 177 00:09:27,070 --> 00:09:30,820 Speaker 1: scene in Rushmore with Bill Murray when he says he's 178 00:09:30,890 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: one of the worst students we've got. I can just 179 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: picture Brian Cox saying that, that no one's ever tried 180 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: for this badge before. But it was a legit badge. 181 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny that it existed. It's different now, 182 00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:46,270 Speaker 1: as we'll see. But yeah. In 1963, they introduced the 183 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: Atomic Energy Badge. It came with a pamphlet that they 184 00:09:50,860 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: created with the nuclear energy industry that turned out to 185 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,660 Speaker 1: have a lot of really useful information, almost like a 186 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,140 Speaker 1: starter kit. on how to like source radioactive elements in 187 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: the real world. 188 00:10:03,820 --> 00:10:04,380 Speaker 2: Yeah. 189 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,230 Speaker 1: And how to get your own reactor going. 190 00:10:06,490 --> 00:10:09,630 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the projects you could do was to 191 00:10:09,730 --> 00:10:13,410 Speaker 2: build your own Geiger counter. Like it was serious stuff. 192 00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:16,750 Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe so legit that, like I said, the Boy 193 00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:20,890 Speaker 1: Scouts would eventually change that badge. I think probably because 194 00:10:20,929 --> 00:10:24,370 Speaker 1: of what happened with David in 2005, they replaced it 195 00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:26,890 Speaker 1: with the nuclear science badge. Yes. 196 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:30,290 Speaker 2: So, but he's still working on the original, the atomic 197 00:10:30,380 --> 00:10:32,819 Speaker 2: energy badge from 1963, right? 198 00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:33,500 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 199 00:10:33,980 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: So he's just devouring this. He's having the best time. 200 00:10:37,980 --> 00:10:42,980 Speaker 2: He visits a hospital ward to learn about x-rays, which 201 00:10:43,059 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: is part of the merit badge certification. And, The thing 202 00:10:47,540 --> 00:10:51,100 Speaker 2: that really changed things, though, Chuck, is he decided just 203 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:53,620 Speaker 2: these things the merit badge was having him do, like 204 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 2: one of the things was draw a diagram of a 205 00:10:57,140 --> 00:11:01,340 Speaker 2: fission reaction. Yeah. Or build a model of a nuclear reactor, 206 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,479 Speaker 2: but a model, like a cardboard model, basically, or paper mache. Or? 207 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:07,780 Speaker 1: Yes. 208 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:13,309 Speaker 2: Or I will create my own nuclear reactor in my 209 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:17,500 Speaker 2: mom's potting shed. he decided he was so psyched about 210 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: atomic energy that he wanted to do it himself. 211 00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:23,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I guess you do the model and 212 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:27,180 Speaker 1: you're like, hey, that wasn't so hard. Let me see 213 00:11:27,210 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: if I can do it for real. And he wanted 214 00:11:28,970 --> 00:11:31,730 Speaker 1: to build, and this shows that he was a kid. 215 00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:35,390 Speaker 1: I don't think this was to cause harm. He wanted 216 00:11:35,410 --> 00:11:39,329 Speaker 1: to build a neutron gun. And the way I, just 217 00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:42,229 Speaker 1: for my research, this is speculation, but it didn't seem 218 00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:44,850 Speaker 1: like he was like, I want to build a neutron 219 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:47,370 Speaker 1: gun to try and blow up the city that I 220 00:11:47,410 --> 00:11:47,730 Speaker 1: live in. 221 00:11:47,830 --> 00:11:48,579 Speaker 2: Not at all. 222 00:11:48,929 --> 00:11:51,459 Speaker 1: It seemed more like a kid who was really into 223 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:54,819 Speaker 1: science and sci-fi and chemistry and wanted to make a 224 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,060 Speaker 1: little pew-pew gun. Yeah. 225 00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: I think neutron gun is a misleading term. I can't 226 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,939 Speaker 2: get the Nintendo duck hunt gun out of my head 227 00:12:05,980 --> 00:12:09,500 Speaker 2: whenever I hear neutron gun. But really what a neutron 228 00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: gun is, at least the one that David made, it's 229 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,650 Speaker 2: a block of lead with a cavity carved out and 230 00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:18,370 Speaker 2: you put radioactive material in the cavity and then cover 231 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:20,830 Speaker 2: it over with like aluminum foil. And then you just 232 00:12:20,950 --> 00:12:25,020 Speaker 2: point the aluminum foil side of that block of lead 233 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: At what you want to irradiate and then you try 234 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:32,270 Speaker 2: to start a chain reaction, a nuclear reaction. That seems 235 00:12:32,330 --> 00:12:35,030 Speaker 2: to be the sum total of his goals. He wasn't 236 00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:37,110 Speaker 2: trying to build a bomb. He wasn't trying to sell 237 00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:40,530 Speaker 2: plutonium to the Libyans. He wasn't doing anything like that. 238 00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 2: He just wanted to see if he could start a 239 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,239 Speaker 2: nuclear chain reaction, this thing that had fascinated him since 240 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:49,420 Speaker 2: he was 10 years old. And so he set about 241 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,260 Speaker 2: doing that with help from this Eagle Scout merit badge pamphlet. Yeah. 242 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:55,090 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. 243 00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:58,349 Speaker 2: Which makes the whole thing that much more nuts. 244 00:12:59,030 --> 00:13:03,290 Speaker 1: Yeah, and also by adopting a persona as a professor 245 00:13:03,309 --> 00:13:07,650 Speaker 1: because he starts writing into organizations trying to get information, 246 00:13:08,050 --> 00:13:11,569 Speaker 1: trying to get materials, trying to get schematics. He said 247 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:14,270 Speaker 1: he was Professor Han that taught at his high school, 248 00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:18,330 Speaker 1: Chippewa Valley High School. Go chipmunks. Are they? 249 00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:20,450 Speaker 2: I don't know. They better be. 250 00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:24,550 Speaker 1: And over the next few years, basically— And apparently, you know, 251 00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:28,140 Speaker 1: he he applied himself. He didn't apply himself in school. 252 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,950 Speaker 1: He was smart, but he was failing academically. almost failing out, 253 00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:35,710 Speaker 1: basically barely passing like the math and English exams needed 254 00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:38,750 Speaker 1: to graduate eventually. But that is to say these letters 255 00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:42,830 Speaker 1: had like spelling errors and grammatical errors. It didn't seem 256 00:13:42,850 --> 00:13:45,989 Speaker 1: like they were written by a professor, but people bought it. 257 00:13:46,250 --> 00:13:49,010 Speaker 1: And before you know it, he's like corresponding as a 258 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:50,330 Speaker 1: professor to these adults. 259 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:53,910 Speaker 2: Yeah. And these adults are just totally into this correspondence. 260 00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:57,569 Speaker 2: They're really enjoying helping this, who they think a high 261 00:13:57,610 --> 00:14:01,610 Speaker 2: school physics teacher learn math, the stuff he's looking for 262 00:14:01,650 --> 00:14:05,010 Speaker 2: about nuclear energy to ostensibly go and teach to the kids. Right. 263 00:14:05,050 --> 00:14:08,979 Speaker 2: So this correspondence is like genuine. The only thing illegitimate 264 00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: about it was that he was misrepresenting who he actually was. 265 00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:12,660 Speaker 1: Yeah. 266 00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:15,100 Speaker 2: A professor rather than a high school student. But other 267 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: than that, everything else about it seems to be pretty neat. 268 00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Except for the fact that it's dangerous and illegal. Yes. 269 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,570 Speaker 2: So one of the people that he corresponded with, I 270 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:28,590 Speaker 2: think he corresponded with him the most, was named Donald Erb, E-R-B. 271 00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:31,190 Speaker 2: And he was the guy who was the head of 272 00:14:31,250 --> 00:14:35,530 Speaker 2: the department that produces isotopes. If you need isotopes, you 273 00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: can go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This is not you, 274 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: but like if you are in some sort of industry 275 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: that uses isotopes. And this herb will be like, I 276 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,150 Speaker 2: got you. I got you covered. For some reason, they 277 00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:53,310 Speaker 2: come in these little baggies with like card suits printed 278 00:14:53,390 --> 00:14:56,050 Speaker 2: all over them. It's weird. That's a herb kind of touch. 279 00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:57,270 Speaker 1: It's so nice. 280 00:14:57,470 --> 00:15:01,150 Speaker 2: But he worked for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and nobody 281 00:15:01,390 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: helped David Hahn more than Donald Erb did, again, unwittingly. 282 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. So should we take a break? 283 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: We should. 284 00:15:11,260 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: Okay. All right. I was about to keep going, but 285 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: let's take a break, and we're going to talk about 286 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:21,690 Speaker 1: his pursuit of radioactive materials right after this. Radioactive Materials. 287 00:15:43,650 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: By the way, Chuck, it's the Chippewa Valley Big Red, 288 00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: which appears to be a giant cardinal. Oh. If you 289 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: ask me, that was a missed opportunity. 290 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:54,300 Speaker 1: Chipmunks? 291 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: Chippewa chipmunks, the rabid chipmunks. 292 00:15:57,860 --> 00:16:00,270 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. All right. So when we left off, 293 00:16:00,290 --> 00:16:05,850 Speaker 1: David Hahn was getting serious about building this nuclear reactor. 294 00:16:06,890 --> 00:16:11,180 Speaker 1: He needs material to do that. So and we should 295 00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: point out that, you know, I said it was dangerous. 296 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,690 Speaker 1: It was dangerous. He did know this. He still pursued it. 297 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: But he like he had a lead shield. That he 298 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,630 Speaker 1: worked with. He threw away his contaminated clothes. He left 299 00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:25,810 Speaker 1: his shoes in there and didn't take them in his house. 300 00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:28,050 Speaker 2: It was like his driving shoes, but in a potting 301 00:16:28,090 --> 00:16:30,570 Speaker 2: shed that he was building a breeder reactor in. 302 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:32,130 Speaker 1: Do you have driving shoes? Is that a thing? 303 00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:35,690 Speaker 2: I know that it's a thing from watching old episodes 304 00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:36,270 Speaker 2: of Frasier. 305 00:16:37,580 --> 00:16:38,220 Speaker 1: I've never heard that. 306 00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: Yes, you've seen driving shoes. People wear them and they're 307 00:16:41,940 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: totally unaware that you're not supposed to wear them out 308 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: of your car. But it's like if your car is 309 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: so nice... You take off your outdoor shoes and put 310 00:16:49,060 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: on your driving shoes that never leave your car. And 311 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:54,140 Speaker 2: that way you don't get your car dirty. 312 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if I have seen them. I guess 313 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: I just maybe didn't. 314 00:16:58,580 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 2: They look kind of like a cross between a loafer 315 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,139 Speaker 2: and a moccasin. And then the dead giveaway is the 316 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:07,419 Speaker 2: tread on the bottom comes up the back of the 317 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,340 Speaker 2: heel as well because of the position that your foot 318 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: is in when you're driving. It gives you grip. 319 00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:14,219 Speaker 1: All right. I'm going to have to look this up. 320 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:14,830 Speaker 2: You've seen them. 321 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:21,449 Speaker 1: All right. All right. So it's amazing. 52 years old. 322 00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:22,490 Speaker 1: Never knew about this. 323 00:17:23,380 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: I was only probably 40 when I learned about it. 324 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 2: So I don't feel bad. 325 00:17:26,140 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: All right. So he starts looking for materials. And these 326 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,460 Speaker 1: are just a few sort of stories about he would 327 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: go about that. He wanted some americium 241 for this 328 00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:42,419 Speaker 1: neutron gun. in the booklet that he got from the 329 00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:45,820 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts, said you can get this stuff in smoke detectors. 330 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:50,450 Speaker 1: So he tries to steal them from the Boy Scout camp, 331 00:17:51,330 --> 00:17:54,450 Speaker 1: got caught and sent home early. Then he writes smoke 332 00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:57,690 Speaker 1: detector companies saying, I need a bunch of these things 333 00:17:57,730 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: for a school project. Eventually, one company sold him 100 334 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,469 Speaker 1: broken ones for 100 bucks. Yeah. Couldn't figure out how 335 00:18:04,510 --> 00:18:07,669 Speaker 1: to find this americium. So got in touch with another 336 00:18:08,060 --> 00:18:10,419 Speaker 1: smoke detector company. It was like, oh, well, here's where 337 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: you find it. And was able to extract americium enough 338 00:18:14,740 --> 00:18:17,860 Speaker 1: to like weld together with a blowtorch. Yes. 339 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:20,270 Speaker 2: So remember I was talking about the neutron gun is 340 00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:23,190 Speaker 2: a lump of lead with a cavity hollowed out. And 341 00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:26,710 Speaker 2: then you put your radioactive material in the cavity of lead. 342 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,530 Speaker 2: Now we have this radioactive material. 343 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,370 Speaker 1: That's right. 344 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:33,449 Speaker 2: Amerisium is– I looked up why it would be in 345 00:18:33,490 --> 00:18:37,170 Speaker 2: smoke detectors. Did you see why? No. It's really interesting. 346 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:43,220 Speaker 2: Just for a second. So amerisium, because of its radioactive decay, 347 00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:48,220 Speaker 2: it creates a flow of ions, positive and negative ions, 348 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: that are moved across like this metal plate. And there's 349 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,790 Speaker 2: a constant movement of ions that this amerisium is creating 350 00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 2: from the air around it. And when smoke interacts with 351 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,419 Speaker 2: those ions, it actually breaks that flow. That flow is 352 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,109 Speaker 2: detected by the smoke detector, which triggers it to go off. 353 00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:09,990 Speaker 2: Isn't that just so bizarre? That's how your smoke detector works. 354 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:11,670 Speaker 1: And that's how they still work? 355 00:19:11,869 --> 00:19:15,230 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's still americium in smoke detectors today. 356 00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:19,629 Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah. So you said he built his own Geiger counter. 357 00:19:21,020 --> 00:19:22,980 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was this one or if 358 00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:24,859 Speaker 1: he ended up getting another one, but he would drive 359 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,050 Speaker 1: around upper Michigan. with this Geiger counter on, just looking 360 00:19:30,109 --> 00:19:34,500 Speaker 1: for naturally occurring uranium out in the world. And then 361 00:19:34,540 --> 00:19:37,500 Speaker 1: eventually he's like, this isn't working out. So he got 362 00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:41,420 Speaker 1: a Czechoslovakian firm that the NRC told him about and 363 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:42,830 Speaker 1: sourced uranium ore. 364 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:46,330 Speaker 2: Yeah, he had that Geiger counter mounted to his dashboard. 365 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:49,130 Speaker 2: And apparently any time he drove, he had it turned on. 366 00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:50,510 Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? 367 00:19:50,609 --> 00:19:52,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you've got to find this stuff. 368 00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:55,030 Speaker 2: And he actually did find some stuff. It's called pitch blend, 369 00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:58,990 Speaker 2: and it's a source of low-grade uranium. And he tried 370 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: to extract it, but he couldn't purify it enough. So 371 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 2: like you said, he was like, well, I'll just buy 372 00:20:03,140 --> 00:20:07,020 Speaker 2: some pure uranium from a firm in Czechoslovakia. that he 373 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,700 Speaker 2: heard about either from the pamphlet or from Donald Erb, 374 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:10,500 Speaker 2: one of the two. 375 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, another thing he did was the little mantle, like 376 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: the little mesh sacks that you tie onto a gas lantern. 377 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,379 Speaker 1: He bought thousands of those because they have little tiny 378 00:20:22,420 --> 00:20:28,420 Speaker 1: amounts of thorium-232. And so, you know, he buys thousands 379 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:31,830 Speaker 1: of these from surplus stores, buys thousands of dollars in 380 00:20:31,890 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: lithium batteries to extract lithium. So he's being very... you know, 381 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: I think showing a lot of initiative in at least 382 00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:40,940 Speaker 1: how to find this stuff. 383 00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:45,450 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, he's using his after-school job money 384 00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:48,930 Speaker 2: to buy $ 1, 000 in lithium batteries to purify the thorium 385 00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:51,409 Speaker 2: that he got from the gas lanterns that he purchased 386 00:20:51,790 --> 00:20:53,830 Speaker 2: and extracted it from. Like, I can't imagine how much 387 00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:57,250 Speaker 2: time and effort this took. And by the way, he 388 00:20:57,290 --> 00:20:59,790 Speaker 2: did purify that thorium pretty well. I saw that he 389 00:20:59,830 --> 00:21:03,449 Speaker 2: got it to 9,000 times the level found in Nature 390 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 2: of radioactivity. And about 170 times the level that you 391 00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: would need a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to possess. 392 00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: He also went around, of course, where you're going to 393 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,550 Speaker 1: find old dangerous radioactive things, junkyards and antique shops. So 394 00:21:21,630 --> 00:21:24,850 Speaker 1: he would take that Geiger counter into a junk shop 395 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:27,470 Speaker 1: or an antique store and he would walk around until 396 00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:32,379 Speaker 1: something lit up like radium paint. If you remember, I 397 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: think it was pretty excellent podcast on the radium girls. 398 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:34,780 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 399 00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: And he would find radium paint in an old clock. 400 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,580 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he found a vial of paint just tucked 401 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: away inside of one. Then he really had his radioactive 402 00:21:46,619 --> 00:21:50,460 Speaker 2: material for his neutron gun. He actually stepped it up 403 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:53,770 Speaker 2: and built a second gun. He'd also, from corresponding with 404 00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:58,010 Speaker 2: Donald Erb, gotten even better at creating a neutron gun 405 00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:02,389 Speaker 2: that was going to be useful in creating a nuclear reaction. 406 00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:07,980 Speaker 2: He also found that when he used the radium on, 407 00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 2: I think, the thorium that he purified, he was trying 408 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 2: to trigger a chain reaction by bombarding thorium with neutrons. 409 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,459 Speaker 2: That's what he was trying to do. He found that 410 00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:20,550 Speaker 2: the thorium wasn't converting into uranium like it was supposed to. 411 00:22:20,890 --> 00:22:23,590 Speaker 2: So he contacted Donald Erb and Donald Erb said, your 412 00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:25,530 Speaker 2: neutrons are too fast. You got to slow them down. 413 00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:27,950 Speaker 2: One of the best ways to slow them down is tritium. 414 00:22:28,690 --> 00:22:30,550 Speaker 2: And he said, well, where would I find tritium? And 415 00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:34,740 Speaker 2: apparently they use tritium to make the glowing sites on 416 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,300 Speaker 2: gun scopes and gun sights. So he ordered, I think, 417 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:43,550 Speaker 2: dozens of gun sights from mail order catalogs from stores. 418 00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:45,850 Speaker 2: And then he would scrape the tritium off and then 419 00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:49,090 Speaker 2: send them back and say, I need this sight repaired. 420 00:22:49,109 --> 00:22:51,230 Speaker 2: There's no tritium on it. And they would put more 421 00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:53,070 Speaker 2: tritium on it and send it back. And he'd just 422 00:22:53,109 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: create a new pseudonym and send that back. And that's 423 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:57,300 Speaker 2: how methodical that kid was. 424 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,830 Speaker 1: So this is all kid stuff. He's like, 14, 15 425 00:23:01,830 --> 00:23:05,850 Speaker 1: years old. Eventually, he turns 17 and he says, all right, 426 00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:09,990 Speaker 1: I think I want to build an actual nuclear reactor. 427 00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:14,550 Speaker 1: It's called a tiny breeder reactor. They've been around since 428 00:23:14,670 --> 00:23:18,689 Speaker 1: the early 1950s when the U.S. developed them, when we 429 00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:20,660 Speaker 1: were sort of the beginning of the age of trying 430 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,189 Speaker 1: to use nuclear power for electricity. Mm-hmm. And they're like, well, 431 00:23:24,210 --> 00:23:26,330 Speaker 1: these little tiny breeder reactors might be a good way 432 00:23:26,369 --> 00:23:30,410 Speaker 1: to extend the supply of fuel or something. It never 433 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: quite worked out that way. I think they're still working 434 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: on that kind of thing in Russia and China. But 435 00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:38,659 Speaker 1: it never really went off the ground. But it was 436 00:23:38,740 --> 00:23:41,830 Speaker 1: enough to inspire David to think that maybe I can 437 00:23:42,010 --> 00:23:45,410 Speaker 1: build a small thing like this in my mom's potting 438 00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:47,510 Speaker 1: garage or potting shed. 439 00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. The difference between a breeder reactor and a regular 440 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,820 Speaker 2: reactor is that in a regular reactor, you just use 441 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: fuel and you get energy from the fuel. With the 442 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,500 Speaker 2: breeder reactor, you get energy from the fuel, but it 443 00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 2: also creates more fuel, and you end up with more 444 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,540 Speaker 2: fuel than you started with. I saw it likened to 445 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:08,139 Speaker 2: leaving your house or the car with a half a 446 00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: tank of gas, and when you return home, the tank 447 00:24:12,340 --> 00:24:14,619 Speaker 2: is full. That's kind of like what it does, and 448 00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 2: yet they just could never get it to work. But 449 00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:18,210 Speaker 2: that's what he was trying to do. And the reason 450 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:21,429 Speaker 2: why is because you start with uranium-238, and that's the 451 00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:23,490 Speaker 2: most abundant uranium found in nature. 452 00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:28,410 Speaker 1: That's right. So he doesn't have enough uranium, no matter 453 00:24:28,450 --> 00:24:32,210 Speaker 1: what kind it is, to create an actual chain reaction 454 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: for a normal reactor. So he says, maybe I can 455 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: at least do something. It seemed like he became sort 456 00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:41,740 Speaker 1: of obsessed just with this goal of creating some kind 457 00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:45,300 Speaker 1: of nuclear reaction himself. Yeah, yeah. Got a blueprint from 458 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: one of his dad's textbooks, took that americium and the 459 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,230 Speaker 1: radium from his neutron guns, mixed it with some aluminum shavings, 460 00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:58,290 Speaker 1: some beryllium, wrap that up in aluminum foil. And basically, 461 00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:02,370 Speaker 1: you have yourself a very small reactor core right there. 462 00:25:02,590 --> 00:25:05,139 Speaker 2: Yeah, he created an atomic pile like the first one 463 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: that Fermi created in Chicago, but on a much, much 464 00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:11,020 Speaker 2: smaller scale. But it worked. It worked. Like, it worked. 465 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:13,719 Speaker 2: He created, like you said, a nuclear reactor, and it 466 00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:18,300 Speaker 2: started a nuclear chain reaction. And it started to take off, actually, 467 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:19,500 Speaker 2: pretty quickly. 468 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. He's got that Geiger counter, and he's measuring this thing, like, 469 00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:28,020 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. And he's like, it's actually growing. Like, 470 00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:32,330 Speaker 1: it's getting more radioactive in here. I imagine he was 471 00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:37,650 Speaker 1: thrilled and also possibly a little bit like Matthew Broderick 472 00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:40,460 Speaker 1: in War Games where it's like, oh, wait a minute. Like, 473 00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: what have I done here such that he was worried 474 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: and took it apart? 475 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: He did. Apparently, he could detect it from five houses 476 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,609 Speaker 2: down the street. And I looked up pictures of Golf Manor. And, 477 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,050 Speaker 2: I mean, their yards are decent size. So five houses 478 00:25:57,109 --> 00:25:59,169 Speaker 2: away is a pretty good distance to be able to 479 00:25:59,210 --> 00:26:02,950 Speaker 2: pick up his nuclear reactor in his mom's potting shed 480 00:26:02,970 --> 00:26:04,670 Speaker 2: with his Geiger counter. 481 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:05,750 Speaker 1: Big side yards there. 482 00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:07,790 Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of big side yards. 483 00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:10,190 Speaker 1: No zero lot lines. 484 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:12,820 Speaker 2: No, no, no. Nothing like that. No, this is Golf Manor, man, 485 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,260 Speaker 2: that we're talking about. So he took it apart and 486 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,140 Speaker 2: he just kind of distributed the different parts to try 487 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: to drop the radioactivity levels in his mom's potting shed. 488 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 2: And he kind of went about his life after he 489 00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:33,780 Speaker 2: disassembled his reactor. He'd achieved his goal, but apparently he 490 00:26:33,859 --> 00:26:37,370 Speaker 2: had a penchant for stealing wheels and tires off of cars. 491 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:42,170 Speaker 2: He admitted as much in an interview later on as 492 00:26:42,210 --> 00:26:45,660 Speaker 2: an adult. And he seems to have gotten caught doing 493 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,540 Speaker 2: that by the police shortly after he disassembled his reactor. 494 00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: And when the police called him, they said, we're going 495 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,859 Speaker 2: to search your car. And he said, go ahead and 496 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,699 Speaker 2: search my car, but do not open that toolbox. That 497 00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:00,580 Speaker 2: toolbox is highly radioactive. 498 00:27:01,869 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: Is that a good cliffhanger for a break? 499 00:27:03,369 --> 00:27:06,030 Speaker 2: I think so. Imagine the cops going, what? 500 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: You're like, we've got to listen to ads before we 501 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: know what happens? 502 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,420 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Sorry. 503 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,170 Speaker 1: All right. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. 504 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: All right, so it's August, almost September, 1994. That reactor 505 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,109 Speaker 1: is taken apart. I think he put the thorium in 506 00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:50,389 Speaker 1: a shoebox. The radium in the americium was in the 507 00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:53,330 Speaker 1: shed still, and the rest is in the trunk of 508 00:27:53,369 --> 00:27:55,750 Speaker 1: his car. He's just been pulled over, like you said, 509 00:27:56,369 --> 00:28:01,190 Speaker 1: because there was reports that he was stealing tires and wheels. 510 00:28:01,210 --> 00:28:04,689 Speaker 1: And he said, warning, that thing's radioactive. Don't open up 511 00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:08,990 Speaker 1: that toolbox. So they said, well, maybe we should. This 512 00:28:09,010 --> 00:28:12,970 Speaker 1: sounds like an IED to me, an improvised explosive device. 513 00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:14,670 Speaker 1: Why don't we call in the bomb squad to be safe? 514 00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: Called in the bomb squad. They said this whole car 515 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: basically is radioactive. And all of a sudden, the federal 516 00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:26,859 Speaker 1: radiological emergency response plan is triggered. And the EPA and 517 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: the FBI and the NRC and the DOE are in 518 00:28:30,380 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: the state and local authorities are all like. trying to, 519 00:28:35,770 --> 00:28:37,810 Speaker 1: not trying to get this kid, but trying to figure 520 00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:39,850 Speaker 1: out what in the world is going on with this kid. Yeah. 521 00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:42,390 Speaker 2: He's 17 at the time still. And all of a 522 00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: sudden these huge agencies are like swooping down on him 523 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:49,420 Speaker 2: to figure out what's going on. The thing is, I 524 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: guess they didn't think to ask the right questions or 525 00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:57,300 Speaker 2: their imaginations just didn't go as far as they could have, 526 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,330 Speaker 2: but they seem to have in this initial questioning, not 527 00:29:01,390 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: really have gotten any further than his car. And he 528 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:09,700 Speaker 2: didn't offer up any information whatsoever about his actual nuclear 529 00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:12,770 Speaker 2: reaction experiments in his mom's potting shed. They didn't even 530 00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:14,610 Speaker 2: know there was a potting shed at his mom's house 531 00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:14,930 Speaker 2: at this point. 532 00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:16,250 Speaker 1: That's really hard to believe. 533 00:29:16,330 --> 00:29:18,570 Speaker 2: Yes, but that's the level of questioning that this kid 534 00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:21,770 Speaker 2: was subjected to. And I mean, in retrospect, you're like, 535 00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:24,090 Speaker 2: are you guys kidding? You didn't know about the potting 536 00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 2: shed right off the bat? But if you're an FBI 537 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:29,940 Speaker 2: agent or a Department of Energy agent and you're talking 538 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,700 Speaker 2: to a 17-year-old kid, You're probably not going to assume 539 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,150 Speaker 2: that because they have this stuff in a toolbox in 540 00:29:38,190 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 2: their car, they actually were successful. successfully creating nuclear chain 541 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: reactions in their mom's potting shed. I can kind of 542 00:29:45,060 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: commiserate with that. 543 00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: Sure. You probably assume he just got it at radiation 544 00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: or us. 545 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 2: Pretty much. 546 00:29:53,540 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: So a few months later is when they finally got 547 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,740 Speaker 1: an expert from the State Department of Public Health to 548 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,500 Speaker 1: interview David more thoroughly, and that turned up the potting shed. 549 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,540 Speaker 1: David's mom at this point had gathered most of the 550 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: radioactive stuff and gotten rid of it. I imagine not 551 00:30:13,790 --> 00:30:16,050 Speaker 1: in a very safe way at all. No. Probably just 552 00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:16,770 Speaker 1: went in the trash can. 553 00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:18,070 Speaker 2: Yeah. 554 00:30:18,370 --> 00:30:20,870 Speaker 1: And they still found a lot of radiation at the 555 00:30:20,910 --> 00:30:24,550 Speaker 1: house in the materials there in the shed. Apparently there 556 00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:27,690 Speaker 1: was a vegetable can that had about 1,000 times the 557 00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:29,090 Speaker 1: normal background radiation. 558 00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:29,190 Speaker 2: Yeah. 559 00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:34,450 Speaker 1: And so they called in federal authorities and they said, well, 560 00:30:34,570 --> 00:30:37,390 Speaker 1: your house is, well, the potting shed at least is 561 00:30:37,450 --> 00:30:38,290 Speaker 1: a super fun site. 562 00:30:38,550 --> 00:30:43,190 Speaker 2: Yeah. They ended up spending 60 grand on a two, 563 00:30:43,330 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: three day operation between June 26th and 28th of 1995, 564 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 2: disassembling the potting shed. I think getting some of the 565 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: earth around it out of there, putting them in sealed 566 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,450 Speaker 2: barrels with radioactive hazard symbols on it, and they send 567 00:30:58,510 --> 00:31:01,310 Speaker 2: it to the Great Salt Lake Desert, where they were 568 00:31:01,390 --> 00:31:07,770 Speaker 2: buried with other canisters of low-level radioactive waste. His mom's 569 00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:11,150 Speaker 2: potting shed is in the Great Salt Lake Desert, buried 570 00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:15,790 Speaker 2: with other radioactive material. That's kind of neat. The real stuff, though, 571 00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:19,690 Speaker 2: like you said, it ended up in the landfill nearby. 572 00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:22,810 Speaker 2: There was a quote from David that I saw where 573 00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:27,690 Speaker 2: he said, The authorities got the garbage and the garbage 574 00:31:27,730 --> 00:31:30,470 Speaker 2: got the good stuff in reference to what his mom 575 00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:33,810 Speaker 2: had thrown away. So, yeah, there's some lumps of americium 576 00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:39,070 Speaker 2: and radium sitting somewhere in the garbage pile outside of 577 00:31:39,610 --> 00:31:40,970 Speaker 2: Clinton Commerce Township. 578 00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:44,390 Speaker 1: And what's in like a thousand years, it'll be safe? 579 00:31:44,780 --> 00:31:45,690 Speaker 2: Probably something like that. 580 00:31:47,260 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: I was just I don't know how long that would be. 581 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: I bet somebody knows. 582 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:50,850 Speaker 2: Oh, they'll write in. 583 00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:58,020 Speaker 1: So David falls into depression after this. His high school 584 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,310 Speaker 1: classmates were not kind to him, of course. They called 585 00:32:02,350 --> 00:32:05,950 Speaker 1: him Radioactive Boy. The EPA said, hi, we should, you know, 586 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:09,390 Speaker 1: we can examine you and your body to see if 587 00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:11,970 Speaker 1: you're OK. He said, no, no, no, I don't want 588 00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:14,910 Speaker 1: anything to do with that. I'll be fine. He did 589 00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: get that Eagle Scout badge. I think the scout leaders 590 00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: were like, should we really do this? But they did. 591 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:25,980 Speaker 1: They gave him that Eagle Scout badge. And no, apparently 592 00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:31,830 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, all those huge side yards came in handy 593 00:32:31,870 --> 00:32:34,770 Speaker 1: because no one in the neighborhood and no one at 594 00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:37,850 Speaker 1: the home or in his family apparently ever suffered from 595 00:32:37,910 --> 00:32:39,190 Speaker 1: any kind of radiation sickness. 596 00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:40,410 Speaker 2: That is so lucky. 597 00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:41,430 Speaker 1: Yeah. 598 00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: Like that is really lucky for him and for everybody. 599 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 2: But no one got hurt. That's just mind boggling at 600 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,670 Speaker 2: this point. He went on and joined the Navy a 601 00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:56,970 Speaker 2: couple of years later and he served for several years, 602 00:32:56,990 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: was honorably discharged and ironically served on the USS Enterprise, 603 00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 2: which is a nuclear submarine. But he didn't work in 604 00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:07,540 Speaker 2: any capacity near the nuclear part of the submarine. 605 00:33:09,740 --> 00:33:12,180 Speaker 1: I think he fully served his time in the Navy. 606 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: He did. Yeah, he was honorably discharged. No, no, no. 607 00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:17,420 Speaker 1: I think I think he was discharged from the Marines. 608 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: I think he like he fully served his time in 609 00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:22,620 Speaker 1: the Navy. Oh, I thought he was never discharged. 610 00:33:22,660 --> 00:33:24,690 Speaker 2: I thought they discharged you when your time was up, too. 611 00:33:25,850 --> 00:33:29,710 Speaker 1: No, you just you're just done. Like a discharge means 612 00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:31,870 Speaker 1: it's time for you to go. And they're like, wait, 613 00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:33,450 Speaker 1: I got three more years. And they're like, no, it's 614 00:33:33,470 --> 00:33:34,190 Speaker 1: time for you to go. 615 00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:37,050 Speaker 2: OK, I got you. All right. So, yes, in between 616 00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: the Navy and the Marines, he went to college. and 617 00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 2: started working on an associate's degree. Like you said, he 618 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 2: joined the Marines. He was honorably discharged. And his life 619 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,469 Speaker 2: was just not going the way he wanted it to. 620 00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:55,730 Speaker 2: 2007 found him unemployed. His mental illness had really kind 621 00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:58,410 Speaker 2: of kicked in. And toward the end of his life, 622 00:33:58,890 --> 00:34:04,100 Speaker 2: spoiler alert, he died at age 39. There was an 623 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,540 Speaker 2: FBI report on him where somebody had been informing on 624 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,310 Speaker 2: him that he was not using his meds, that he 625 00:34:11,330 --> 00:34:15,549 Speaker 2: was heavily using cocaine, and that he was acting really paranoid. 626 00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:19,330 Speaker 2: From what I can tell, based on the FBI documents, 627 00:34:19,370 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: it seems like the person informing on him seems concerned, 628 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: not like they're doing it out of any kind of 629 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: vengeful reason. 630 00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:26,620 Speaker 1: Right. 631 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,739 Speaker 2: But when the FBI showed up and interviewed him, again, 632 00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:35,500 Speaker 2: this is when he's in his 30s, he passed all 633 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,850 Speaker 2: the inspection or queries that they gave him, questioning that 634 00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:40,370 Speaker 2: they gave him. 635 00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there were, you know, there were other complaints 636 00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: and reports with the police that, you know, he was 637 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: trying to do this again, that he had a small 638 00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: reactor at his house. Another landlord, I think, said that 639 00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:58,180 Speaker 1: he had stolen some smoke detectors that they were missing 640 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: and they found them like, you know, torn apart, basically 641 00:35:02,219 --> 00:35:05,670 Speaker 1: near David's garage. But they never they never found any 642 00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:07,890 Speaker 1: kind of radiation. He said he hadn't done that kind 643 00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:10,350 Speaker 1: of stuff in a decade. And, you know, they went 644 00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:12,710 Speaker 1: and checked like where he was living and they never 645 00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:15,610 Speaker 1: found any evidence that he had at least started up 646 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: any more radioactive work. Yeah. 647 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:23,209 Speaker 2: Imagine during your FBI questioning. You're like, I haven't done 648 00:35:23,290 --> 00:35:26,109 Speaker 2: any nuclear reactions at home for like 10 years, man. 649 00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:28,150 Speaker 2: That's like that is a different chat. It's like a 650 00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:28,910 Speaker 2: whole lifetime. 651 00:35:28,930 --> 00:35:29,589 Speaker 1: Teenage stuff. 652 00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:35,049 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. The FBI documents also give just kind of 653 00:35:35,090 --> 00:35:38,270 Speaker 2: a sad note in 2010, which is where the FBI's 654 00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:41,900 Speaker 2: investigation of him as an adult left off. Based on 655 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: those complaints, they noted that he was in rehab after 656 00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:49,820 Speaker 2: being charged with a bunch of drug charges. So apparently 657 00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:54,569 Speaker 2: the cocaine use thing was true. That was 2010. Six 658 00:35:54,590 --> 00:35:58,180 Speaker 2: years later, like I said, he was dead at age 39. Yeah. 659 00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:02,180 Speaker 1: So in the media, of course, initially there were some 660 00:36:02,219 --> 00:36:07,020 Speaker 1: people that said that the radioactivity did him in, or 661 00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:10,930 Speaker 1: that was a factor at least. Very sadly, the report 662 00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:14,170 Speaker 1: came back that wasn't true, but he died from combined 663 00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:19,610 Speaker 1: effects of alcohol and fentanyl and Benadryl. And he suffered 664 00:36:19,650 --> 00:36:22,569 Speaker 1: from mental illness, just like his mom, I think, from 665 00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:28,090 Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenia and depression. And it's just a very sad 666 00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:31,089 Speaker 1: end to a story of a kid who sounds like 667 00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:33,989 Speaker 1: he was really smart and just wanted to try and 668 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:35,950 Speaker 1: do something really amazing, you know? 669 00:36:36,060 --> 00:36:39,340 Speaker 2: Yeah. He was found dead in the bathroom at a 670 00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:42,100 Speaker 2: Walmart that he had gone shopping in the night he died. 671 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: And it is a sad end. I don't quite know 672 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:46,660 Speaker 2: what to make of it, Chuck. 673 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:48,509 Speaker 1: Like, Same. 674 00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:51,489 Speaker 2: It's if he was still alive. I don't know. I 675 00:36:51,530 --> 00:36:54,270 Speaker 2: think it would be a much different story somehow. 676 00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:55,170 Speaker 1: Yeah. 677 00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:57,270 Speaker 2: But he did something. I don't know. Maybe it's the 678 00:36:57,310 --> 00:37:00,310 Speaker 2: story of somebody who was just so single minded. They 679 00:37:00,350 --> 00:37:03,130 Speaker 2: did something that most other people would have given up 680 00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:06,069 Speaker 2: on or never even attempted. And that's worth mentioning, you know. 681 00:37:06,850 --> 00:37:10,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And I try to look at other angles, too. 682 00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:13,770 Speaker 1: I just I never saw anything like nefarious, really. 683 00:37:13,810 --> 00:37:17,850 Speaker 2: No, no. Either an FBI interview or a media interview. 684 00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:20,910 Speaker 2: The interviewer was like, I mean, were you thinking of 685 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:23,820 Speaker 2: making a bomb or whatever? And they said they reported 686 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,339 Speaker 2: like he seemed to just be like that never even 687 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,060 Speaker 2: crossed my mind. Like, no, that's not at all what 688 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,180 Speaker 2: I was doing. He was just obsessed with creating a 689 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 2: nuclear reaction. And he did it. 690 00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thankfully, we don't have to end it on 691 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,300 Speaker 1: that sad note because Livia found this other great story 692 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,299 Speaker 1: of a kid named Taylor Wilson who got the Radioactive 693 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,140 Speaker 1: Boy Scout book from his grandmother as an 11-year-old science 694 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: kid and operating under supervision and oversight and getting real 695 00:37:56,980 --> 00:38:01,580 Speaker 1: experts to help. actually became the youngest person to achieve 696 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,259 Speaker 1: nuclear fusion at the age of 14. 697 00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is amazing. I mean, fusion's a whole new ballgame. 698 00:38:07,980 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, 14. 699 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,070 Speaker 1: And works as a nuclear physicist as an adult. 700 00:38:13,180 --> 00:38:15,550 Speaker 2: Yeah, and is supposedly, according to The Guardian, a super 701 00:38:15,590 --> 00:38:16,490 Speaker 2: cool dude, too. 702 00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:19,790 Speaker 1: Yeah, and directly inspired from David's story. 703 00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:23,450 Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently his grandmother lived to regret it, again, 704 00:38:23,489 --> 00:38:24,510 Speaker 2: according to The Guardian. 705 00:38:25,210 --> 00:38:25,589 Speaker 1: Oh, really? 706 00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:28,890 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what The Guardian said. Because I guess his 707 00:38:28,930 --> 00:38:31,070 Speaker 2: grandmother was giving it to him as a cautionary tale, 708 00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:34,210 Speaker 2: and he was like, ooh, I want to try this myself. 709 00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:35,830 Speaker 1: Very interesting. 710 00:38:36,810 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 2: Taylor Wilson's grandmother is the 11th person we need to 711 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 2: thank in this episode, Taylor Wilson being 10 and Donald 712 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 2: Erb being number 9. Right. 713 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:45,899 Speaker 1: Nice work. 714 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 2: If you want to know more about the nuclear or 715 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: radioactive Boy Scout David Hahn, there's a lot of stuff 716 00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:55,510 Speaker 2: out there, but you would be remiss in not reading 717 00:38:55,969 --> 00:38:59,940 Speaker 2: Ken Silverstein's article, at least if not his book, on 718 00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:03,049 Speaker 2: David Hunt. And while you're looking that up, we'll just 719 00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:04,210 Speaker 2: go ahead and do listener mail. 720 00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:09,290 Speaker 1: Alright, this is from Tiffany. Hey guys, thank you for 721 00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:12,130 Speaker 1: bringing back some vivid memories from my 8th grade reading class. 722 00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:15,710 Speaker 1: Too many decades ago to admit, but my reading teacher 723 00:39:15,730 --> 00:39:18,290 Speaker 1: was also the social studies teacher, and I guess that 724 00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:22,069 Speaker 1: explains why all of our reading lists included Animal Farm, Hiroshima, 725 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,580 Speaker 1: All Quiet on the Western Front, and you know it, 726 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,899 Speaker 1: The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. To hammer home what we read, 727 00:39:28,940 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: he would incorporate details of the book into a little 728 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: imaginary coin toss he did each day to determine whether 729 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,259 Speaker 1: the boys or girls got to go first and walk 730 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: to lunch in single file line. For the weeks we 731 00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:43,740 Speaker 1: discussed The Jungle, it would sound something like this. Today's 732 00:39:43,780 --> 00:39:46,410 Speaker 1: menu includes hot dogs. Call it in the air. Is 733 00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:48,310 Speaker 1: it the rusty nail or the severed finger? 734 00:39:48,450 --> 00:39:48,609 Speaker 2: Hmm. 735 00:39:49,590 --> 00:39:52,109 Speaker 1: What a great teacher. One day we noticed that half 736 00:39:52,130 --> 00:39:53,810 Speaker 1: the kids in the class had an edition of the 737 00:39:53,830 --> 00:39:57,550 Speaker 1: book that included this. And yes, I still remember it 738 00:39:57,590 --> 00:40:01,589 Speaker 1: decades later. Mary had a little lamb. And when she 739 00:40:01,650 --> 00:40:05,410 Speaker 1: saw it sicken, she sent it off to the packing town. 740 00:40:05,830 --> 00:40:09,710 Speaker 1: And now it's labeled chicken. I was really hoping you 741 00:40:09,730 --> 00:40:12,690 Speaker 1: guys had seen this so we could hear a recitation 742 00:40:13,219 --> 00:40:16,180 Speaker 1: during the podcast. But we just did it right there, Tiffany. 743 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,060 Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, I didn't run across that. 744 00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:19,899 Speaker 1: I didn't either. That's a great ad. 745 00:40:20,219 --> 00:40:22,860 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiffany. That's a great email, and 746 00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:25,710 Speaker 2: we appreciate it big time. And hats off to your teacher, 747 00:40:26,130 --> 00:40:28,690 Speaker 2: the 13th person we need to thank in this episode. 748 00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:30,350 Speaker 2: You're number 12, Tiffany. 749 00:40:30,650 --> 00:40:31,450 Speaker 1: Can we thank Jerry? 750 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:35,049 Speaker 2: Sure, why not? We'll go with 14. We could thank 751 00:40:35,110 --> 00:40:37,260 Speaker 2: ourselves and just bring it up to 16, a nice 752 00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 2: even number. 753 00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: Sweet 16. 754 00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 2: We're going to make it 17, because we want to 755 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,339 Speaker 2: thank you for listening, and we want to thank you 756 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: in advance for getting in touch with us via email 757 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:52,250 Speaker 2: at stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a 758 00:40:52,270 --> 00:40:53,589 Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. 759 00:40:54,090 --> 00:40:58,330 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 760 00:40:58,489 --> 00:41:00,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.