WEBVTT - Bonus: The Symbionese Liberation Army 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.040 Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.560 and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host, 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.360 producers or parent company. Listener discretion is it find. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:17.960 This is a rip Current bonus episode. You don't need 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.440 to listen to follow the Rip Current storyline, but it 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:25.960 provides more information, context, and analysis to enhance the main podcast. Enjoy. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.960 To get an overview of the Symbionese Liberation Army's brief history, 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.839 I spoke with Rachel Hannell, author of the book Not 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.440 the Camilla We Knew One woman's path from small town 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.560 America to the Symbionese Liberation Army. We talked about the 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.920 group's formation, the internal dynamics, and the fierce and tragic 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.520 gunfight in Los Angeles. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.560 The last days of the SLA will be covered in 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:58.880 episode eleven of the main podcast. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:03.240 So. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.880 I'm Rachel Hannel. I'm a writer and I also teach 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.600 creative nonfiction at Minnesota State University, Mankato. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.160 What's got you interested in writing a book about Camillo Hall. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:16.000 Yeah? 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.520 So I'm a history person. I have an undergraduate degree 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.440 in history as well as a master's degree in history, 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.319 and when I was working on my master's degree. This 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.600 was back in nineteen ninety nine. There was a major 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.880 story here in Minnesota, and it actually was national as well, 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.319 where a woman named Sarah Jane Olsen was arrested in 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:37.000 Saint Paul. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:38.360 And here it. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.480 Turned out that she had been in hiding for twenty 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.000 four years and she had been a member of the 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.040 Symbionese Liberation Army. And this was a huge story because 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.200 she was living just kind of this quote unquote normal, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.200 quiet life. Her husband was a doctor, she was a volunteer, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.200 they were raising three children. She was actually pretty active 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.640 in her community. So when the arrest happened, it was 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.800 really huge news. And alongside one of the main news stories, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.000 there was a smaller story about the SLA to remind 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.320 people what the SLA was. And there was a little 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.480 picture of Camilla Hall next to that article. And Kamilla 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.920 Hall was from Saint Peter, Minnesota, and I'm from Mankato, Minnesota. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.520 And Camilla had been a member of the SLA, and 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.840 she was killed in a shootout with police in nineteen 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.040 seventy four with five other SLA members. But I was 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.280 really struck by her picture because she looked just again, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.079 quote unquote normal her dad had been a pastor and 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.639 a theology professor, and I had never heard of her, 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.400 and so that was really the surprising thing to me, 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.600 where a woman from small town Minnesota had gotten caught 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.440 up in this what we would call a domestic terrorist 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.880 organization out in the Bay Area, and I just wanted 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.800 to know how did that happen? And so that really 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.280 sent me down a rabbit hole. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.600 What was her sort of first content tackt with anybody 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.639 that would lead eventually to the SLA. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.160 Yes, so Camilla moved to California in nineteen seventy originally 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.480 to Los Angeles, and the next year she ended up 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.160 in Berkeley. And so it was right away when she 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.040 moved to Berkeley, she moved to an apartment on Channing Way, 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.280 and there was a young woman in a neighboring apartment 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.440 named Patricia soul To Sick, and so those two became 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.799 fast friends, and they quickly became lovers as well. And 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.720 it was really Patricia soul To Sick who was the 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.399 main architect of the SLA. So once the SLA started 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:40.240 really performing in nineteen seventy three, by late nineteen seventy three, 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:41.920 Camilla was in the fold. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.800 So a character who's I think is really interesting, who 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.320 I don't have in the main podcast at all is 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.880 Colston Westbrook and the program that he was running in Vacaville. 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:55.800 Can you talk about that a little bit? 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.200 What I will say is that Westbrook is a really 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.000 fascinating character, and I think there's a lot of mystery 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:08.000 surrounding him. I think maybe his full story is not 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.760 known or people aren't talking. So there's some speculation that 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:17.000 he had worked for a company that was in Vietnam 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.120 during the war doing something. I'm really sure if it 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.440 was some kind of CIA mission. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:25.800 You know. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.640 Again, it's all very mysterious. But he comes back to 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:35.040 the States and is organizing these groups and prisons, which 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.520 again kind of on paper, you know, this is good, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.479 like any kind of education or any community orientation in 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.000 prisons would be a good thing. But there is definitely 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.880 speculation because of his kind of mysterious background. Was he 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:51.440 a plant of the government? 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:51.760 You know? 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.560 Was he put into prisons to kind of like discredit 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.599 the far left, or to kind of rile things up 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.360 so they could be discredited for to kind of spy 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.760 on what's going on in the prisons. Again, a whole 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.039 lot isn't known. You have like the official story, and 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.440 then you have kind of all of these conspiracy theories 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:12.520 that go along with him. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.920 And so is his program which was where Defreese met 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.960 Willie Wolf and I think Russell Little is that is 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:21.520 that correct? 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:23.520 Yeah? Several on them. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.000 I think the Harrises were also in those prison groups 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:26.400 as well. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.720 So what is their sort of first activity. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.320 So the SLA is forming in early nineteen seventy three, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.600 and so they're writing manifestos, they're writing these guiding principles 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:45.359 and again on paper, you know, it looks good like 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.840 they want equality, and they want less division between rich 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.080 and poor, and they want a racial harmony and gender 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.440 equity like all of these things that we would say, yeah, okay, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.400 you know that sounds good. But they definitely had the 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.680 more militaristic view like if this can't happen through kind 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.240 of regulated channels, then we are willing to take up 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.360 arms and basically have a revolution to fight for these things. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.880 So their first main action was in November nineteen seventy three, 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:20.680 and they killed the Oakland School superintendent Marcus Foster and 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:26.280 they seriously injured his deputy superintendent, Robert Blackburn, and the 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.120 thing was though Foster was a black man, he had 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.159 come from Philadelphia, he had done great things for the 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.919 Philadelphia School District, came to Oakland doing great things for 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.400 the Oakland School District, like really turning these districts around 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.440 to have a lot of student success. So right away, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.960 I mean from the very beginning, almost everyone after this 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.080 happened is saying, what the heck, what are you doing? Like, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.000 by all accounts, this guy is doing really great things. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.040 And plus he's black. You know, if you want racial harmony, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:58.760 this is not going to be the way to do it. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.080 So it was a really kind of bizarre first move 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:03.680 that the SLA undertook. 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.359 Yeah, and that's sort of connected to some sort of 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.600 conspiracy theories that Dufreeze had about like a central database 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.880 that was going to get information from kids because of 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:15.920 their ID cards. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.440 That was exactly it. There was a talk in some circles, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.880 and you know, there were people at school board meetings 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.840 because they were really curious about this program. That it 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.240 did seem that Foster wanted to implement a student identification program, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:35.040 mostly because there had been violence on school district property 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.600 perpetuated by people who were not students, you know, So 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.520 it was kind of like, hey, we just want to know, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.480 like you're going to be on school property, we need 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.880 to know that you are actually part of this school, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:46.920 so let's give you a badge. So it was kind 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.920 of more for safety measures. But yes, there was a 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.880 small population that said, oh, you're just going to feed 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.480 these students and their pictures into these databases and they 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.920 might be troubled students. And so they really saw the 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.560 quote unquote school to prison pipeline is what they thought 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:04.200 of this plan. 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:09.520 So they claim responsibility for the killing, right, and then 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.440 so how does that kind of change, you know, their situation. 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.640 Well before the murder of Foster, again just kind of 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.120 through their manifestos and communicats, you know, I think they 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.360 could have gotten maybe decent support, not a ton of support. 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.880 I mean, it's still very militaristic, but you know, we 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.560 are in the Bay area that is really quite left 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.360 of center. But as soon as they murdered Foster, there 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.360 was hardly any support whatsoever to be found. And the 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.440 group's really tiny at this point to maybe ten people 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.480 that are part of the SLA. So if they really 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.559 did want to have a revolution and an army, you're 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.680 not going to do that with ten people, but after 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.199 they kill Foster, nobody wants to sign up to be 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:56.120 a part of this group. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.120 So sort of the next sort of beat in their 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:05.080 story is that the arrest of Ramiro and Little, or 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:06.320 is that the bank. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.560 It would be the arrest of Ramiro in Little. So 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:14.920 in January nineteen seventy four, there's traffic stop and Russ 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.800 Little and Joe Ramiro are in a car or a 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.240 van and it's the middle of the night, so the 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.280 police officer is pretty suspicious what's going on. I think 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.080 one of them gives a false ID, and I can't 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.199 remember if they search the vehicle or what happens, but 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.959 they find a gun and then that gun is linked 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.280 to the Foster murder, and so Little and Ramiro are 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.640 arrested right there where it gets back to the safe 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.040 house where the SLA had been staying, so they have 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.440 to abandon that safe house right away. So basically anybody 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.480 who's part of the ESLA at this point is going underground. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.800 So what's going on with Camilla Hall at this point? 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.520 Yeah, So Camilla's only entry into this group is through 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.880 Patricia Souldasik, who later changed her name to Miss Moon. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:03.440 So people might remember that name. By all accounts, it's sketchy. 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.200 In terms of documentation, Camilla is dead. Anybody who knew 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.000 her well is dead. So as far as when she 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.600 actually became part of the group little mysterious. But as 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.199 far as what I can tell, she was not part 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.960 of the group during the Foster murder and a couple 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.040 of other people who would eventually be members. There was 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.920 a meeting on New Year's Eve in nineteen seventy three, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.479 and it looks at that point the SLA really coalesced, 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.120 and I believe, as far as I can tell, that's 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.440 when Camilla says, Okay, I'm all in. Because then two 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.800 days later, on January second, she buys a gun. 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.079 That was an interesting scene actually in the book. Yeah, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.280 she goes in and the guy is selling guns. Is 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.080 like trying to process like this young single woman coming 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.480 in to buy a gun without like a man at 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:52.560 her side and stuff. 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.160 Exactly when you think about it, you know, you think 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.839 of gun shops in the seventies, I mean even today, right, 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.640 I don't think a lot of single women are marching 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.280 in the guns shops and signing up to get guns. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:08.200 So at what point do they decide and why to 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:09.720 kidnap Patty Hurst. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:16.040 Yeah, so the kidnapping, like a general plan to kidnap 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.080 someone does seem to have been a conversation in the 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.360 months leading up to the actual kidnapping in those prison groups, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.560 just in terms of attention and in terms of possible 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.240 you know, monetary gain by kidnapping somebody who has some wealth. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:31.760 So it looks like there. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.240 Was a fairly lengthy list of people who were possible 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.200 targets for kidnapping when Ramiro and Little were arrested in 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.559 January and police could get into the house after everyone 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.960 had fled, that's where they're finding these lists, and it 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.560 looks like Hurst was on that list and some other people. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.640 Strangely enough, I don't know why, but nobody who was 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.080 on that list was notified that they might be a 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.960 potential kidnapping target. So something got lost in translation there. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:02.439 But as far. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.800 As why Hurst, the group is starting to kind of 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.800 scope out her residence. You know, she's living with her fiancee. 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.240 They're just in this regular apartment in Berkeley. I mean, yeah, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.080 she's very wealthy, but it's not like she's ensconced in 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.920 some gated mansion or anything like that. So she's very accessible, 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.920 and she's very young too, right, So I'm sure that 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.280 all of those factors combined is why they thought, Okay, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.000 let's make her armin target. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:35.360 So they kidnap Patty Hurst and they take her to 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.720 a safe house and they put her in a closet. 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.679 So do you have a sense how that affected the 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.800 dynamics within the group now that they have high profile 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.360 hostage and then be you know, suddenly the entire country 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.120 is paying attention to them. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.480 Yeah, I mean that stealed their fate, right, nobody's going 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.280 anywhere at those points. I mean, if you're in the SLA, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.960 you are in hiding. With the exception of Camilla again, 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.640 because she really wasn't connected to the other people in 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.199 the group, She's the last one to go around, so 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.680 she manages to stay above ground about three weeks after 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.240 the kidnapping, by the time the FBI is finally closing 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.200 in on acquaintances. But yeah, they're not going anywhere. They 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.800 certainly have to be very very careful. Now, how are 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:25.160 they going. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:25.959 To get supplies? 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.560 They moved around a lot, so anytime they felt like, 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.439 oh this safe house, you know, we feel like we're 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.320 under target here, you know, let's pick up and let's 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.680 move to another one. So it was just a matter 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.480 of just consistently kind of having to scurry from place 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:41.960 to place. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.200 I mean. The next sort of public action, that's a 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.840 Hibernia bank right, yes, yes, can you talk about that 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:52.439 a little bit. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:59.040 Yeah, So they need money, so they decide to conduct 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.439 a bank robber. So this is April fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.640 about two and a half months after the kidnapping. A 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.000 couple of weeks before this, though, is when we get 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:13.040 the famous message from Patty Hurst herself and the famous 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.319 photograph of her holding a machine gun in front of 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.480 the SLA flag that says, I'm a member of the SLA. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.520 My name is Tanya. They told me I could leave. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.960 I didn't want to leave. I've decided to stay and fight. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.960 So by the time they do the bank robbery, Hurst 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.440 is by all accounts a member of the SLA, and 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.040 indeed she is in the bank. We can see the 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.400 surveillance tapes from that day and she's holding her machine 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.360 gun right there in the bank. So five members had 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.320 gone into the bank, they got about ten thousand dollars, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.880 and the four other members were outside in a getaway car, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.760 and so it all happened very very quickly, but they 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.680 were able to escape and nobody caught them right away. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.640 After this, I think is when they start of split 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.920 up into three different like quote unquote cells. I guess 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.960 I thought that was kind of an interesting little insight 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.920 into the interpersonal dynamics that were going on there. Can 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.200 you talk about that a little bit? 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.880 Yeah, I mean it's all just so strange, you know 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.360 that it's nine people living in one apartment and they're 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:22.000 never leaving. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.680 They're never going out, you know. So if we think 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:24.960 of the. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.320 COVID lockdowns and how terrible that was, I mean, this 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.800 is just like that on steroids, to think of you're 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.080 never leaving anywhere, and so yeah, I think about that 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.000 a lot. Kind of the group dynamics group psychology, so 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.760 kind of in terms of like military tactics, they decide 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.720 to split into three different cells of three people just 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.239 to move around a little bit, you know, differently, especially 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.120 as they have to move from place to place instead 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.360 of all nine of them being together, they kind of 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.920 do this separation. So there was a little controversy there 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.800 because Patty Hurst was considered a week member and Camilla 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:04.080 was considered a week member. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.640 So it's like nobody wanted them on their teams. 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.880 But somehow it had to work out that way, so 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.960 they were able to find their places. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.560 Yeah, they were both on Bill Harris's team, and then 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.800 Bill Harris was angry that he wasn't with Emily, so 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:20.960 they basically traded. 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.680 Yes, Bill did not want both Patty and Camilla, but 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.800 the idea was, well, you didn't want the husband and 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.040 wife together because you weren't supposed to have those kind 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.360 of relationships. But he went out yes, and so it 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.920 was he and Emily and Patty and that. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.760 Sort of you know, foreshadows later events, what's important that 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.960 happens next or between this and then when they go 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:44.720 to La. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.520 Yes, it's relatively quiet for them in the Bay Area 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.520 right after the bank robbery, but they are feeling very, 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.720 very pressured and they're getting increasingly paranoid. So anytime they 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.720 see a police car, anytime they hear helicopters, and for 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.560 a while I think they're in East Oakland where there 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.280 was a pretty major police presence on a daily basis. Anyway, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.919 they're always hearing sirens and they're always hearing helicopters, so 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.600 they're getting very very paranoid. I'm not sure how close 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.479 the FBI was to getting them at this point, but 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.879 they really felt like something was going to happen, and 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.600 so they decide to leave the Bay Area and go 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.480 to Los Angeles because Donald Deafries had spent years in 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.080 LA so they feel like he's familiar with that city, 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:33.000 all right, So they. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.520 Go to Los Angeles. Why aren't the Harrises and Patty 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:42.040 Hurst with the rest of the group when the shootout happens. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.840 So they do go to LA in the three separate vehicles, 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.600 but then they all get to the same place when 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.280 they're looking for a place to rent where on May sixteenth, 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.360 Now it's determined that they need some supplies, so one 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.760 of the groups has to go get supplied, and so 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.879 that task is given to the Harrises and Patty Hurst. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.199 So the other six are remaining in the house that 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.199 they found in south central LA to hide out, and 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.840 the Harris is in Hirst going to a sporting goods 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.800 store to get some supplies, and. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.680 That being a fairly fraught shopping. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.639 Expedition, it sure does. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.240 So they're going to get supplies and they are buying everything. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.160 They're going through the checkout line. For some reason, Bill 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.520 Harris decides to put a pair of socks in his 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.800 shirt to steal them, you know, like a dollar pair 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.000 of socks, and the clerk sees them. I think the 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.080 clerk has a gun. So the clerk decides to chase 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.159 them out of the store and confront Harris, and Harris 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.960 has his gun, and so there's a scuffle, and Patty 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.400 Hurst is in the van watching this whole thing. While 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.639 she said she's been trained to step in, you know, 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.880 if she sees any trouble for a member, and so 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.280 she starts to shoot at the scuffling pair. Paris manages 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.600 to get away, get into the van, and the van. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.879 Takes off, all right. So while this is going on 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.440 at the safe house which they found, which is actually 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.639 they sort of pick it almost randomly. It's because it 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.040 has its lights on way way in the wee hours 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.399 of the morning. What's going on there? 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.840 Yeah, So the rest of the group is at this 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.920 safe house, the Harris's and hearst are in this van. Well, 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.320 they have to get rid of the van because everybody 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.720 witnesses have seen this van. So they get rid of 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.320 that van. They hijack another car to take but in 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.560 the van. When the police get to the van and 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.600 look through it, there's parking ticket. And so that's how 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.520 the police are able to get to where the other 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.960 six SLA members are hiding out. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.760 It's all about the details. 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.959 Yeah, so you know, the police kind of figure out, oh, 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.359 here's where the SLA is, they start to close in. 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.880 They're trying to be quiet about it because they want 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.720 to kind of sneak up on the SLA. But slowly 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.160 there's more and more police present. The people who are 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.760 living in the area, they know something's going on. Houses 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.159 nearby are like quietly being evacuated. They're setting up the 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.439 perimeters to take out the people in the house. And 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:16.160 so it ends up being over four hundred police officers 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.639 are on the scene, including what had been a fairly 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.080 newly established SWAT team. So you have the tactical police 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.280 officers here too to take on the six people who 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:28.879 are in the house. 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:34.200 And what sort of is the culmination of this encounter. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.920 Yeah, So, I mean all we have for the official 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.480 record is the police report, and so that the police 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.920 report says that the SLA started to shoot. Then the 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.760 police throw some tear gas into the house, there's shooting 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.520 there's about forty minutes of shooting, of back and forth shooting. 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.639 The tear gas is you know, kind of catching fire 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.320 in the house, and so quickly there's this inferno. And yeah, 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:01.920 it was just completely wild. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:02.280 You know. 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.160 It was just kind of a stunning show of force 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.320 and just a really horrendous way for these six people 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:11.000 to die. 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.479 It's interesting that that. I guess it's just because there 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.240 they were on the liberal side of things. But that's 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.679 not part of the litany of sort of government overreach 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.919 in you know, it doesn't fall in the you know, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:30.080 Branch Davidians or Ruby Ridge or any of that stuff. 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.120 It sort of it seems like it sort of exists 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.240 outside that. Yeah, and I guess it must just be ideological. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:37.840 I haven't really thought about it that much. 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.439 Yeah, you know, and I really compare it to you know, 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.320 like friend Fred Hampton, you know, how the guy was 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:48.000 just you know, they were not going to let this 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.440 guy live, you know, because he was he was such 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.080 a firebrand and people loved him and he was so 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:55.679 charismatic that they thought, wow, this guy could be a 0:21:55.720 --> 0:22:00.159 real danger to our you know, existing systems. And I 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.359