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Speaker 1: Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views

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Speaker 1: and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host,

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Speaker 1: producers or parent company. Listener discretion is it find.

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Speaker 2: This is a rip Current bonus episode. You don't need

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Speaker 2: to listen to follow the Rip Current storyline, but it

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Speaker 2: provides more information, context, and analysis to enhance the main podcast. Enjoy.

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Speaker 3: To get an overview of the Symbionese Liberation Army's brief history,

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Speaker 3: I spoke with Rachel Hannell, author of the book Not

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Speaker 3: the Camilla We Knew One woman's path from small town

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Speaker 3: America to the Symbionese Liberation Army. We talked about the

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Speaker 3: group's formation, the internal dynamics, and the fierce and tragic

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Speaker 3: gunfight in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 4: The last days of the SLA will be covered in

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Speaker 4: episode eleven of the main podcast.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: I'm Rachel Hannel. I'm a writer and I also teach

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Speaker 2: creative nonfiction at Minnesota State University, Mankato.

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Speaker 4: What's got you interested in writing a book about Camillo Hall.

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I'm a history person. I have an undergraduate degree

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Speaker 2: in history as well as a master's degree in history,

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Speaker 2: and when I was working on my master's degree. This

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Speaker 2: was back in nineteen ninety nine. There was a major

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Speaker 2: story here in Minnesota, and it actually was national as well,

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Speaker 2: where a woman named Sarah Jane Olsen was arrested in

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Speaker 2: Saint Paul.

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Speaker 5: And here it.

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Speaker 2: Turned out that she had been in hiding for twenty

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Speaker 2: four years and she had been a member of the

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Speaker 2: Symbionese Liberation Army. And this was a huge story because

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Speaker 2: she was living just kind of this quote unquote normal,

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Speaker 2: quiet life. Her husband was a doctor, she was a volunteer,

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Speaker 2: they were raising three children. She was actually pretty active

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Speaker 2: in her community. So when the arrest happened, it was

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Speaker 2: really huge news. And alongside one of the main news stories,

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Speaker 2: there was a smaller story about the SLA to remind

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Speaker 2: people what the SLA was. And there was a little

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Speaker 2: picture of Camilla Hall next to that article. And Kamilla

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Speaker 2: Hall was from Saint Peter, Minnesota, and I'm from Mankato, Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: And Camilla had been a member of the SLA, and

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Speaker 2: she was killed in a shootout with police in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy four with five other SLA members. But I was

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Speaker 2: really struck by her picture because she looked just again,

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Speaker 2: quote unquote normal her dad had been a pastor and

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Speaker 2: a theology professor, and I had never heard of her,

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Speaker 2: and so that was really the surprising thing to me,

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Speaker 2: where a woman from small town Minnesota had gotten caught

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Speaker 2: up in this what we would call a domestic terrorist

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Speaker 2: organization out in the Bay Area, and I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to know how did that happen? And so that really

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Speaker 2: sent me down a rabbit hole.

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Speaker 4: What was her sort of first content tackt with anybody

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Speaker 4: that would lead eventually to the SLA.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so Camilla moved to California in nineteen seventy originally

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Speaker 2: to Los Angeles, and the next year she ended up

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Speaker 2: in Berkeley. And so it was right away when she

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Speaker 2: moved to Berkeley, she moved to an apartment on Channing Way,

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Speaker 2: and there was a young woman in a neighboring apartment

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Speaker 2: named Patricia soul To Sick, and so those two became

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Speaker 2: fast friends, and they quickly became lovers as well. And

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Speaker 2: it was really Patricia soul To Sick who was the

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Speaker 2: main architect of the SLA. So once the SLA started

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Speaker 2: really performing in nineteen seventy three, by late nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: Camilla was in the fold.

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Speaker 4: So a character who's I think is really interesting, who

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Speaker 4: I don't have in the main podcast at all is

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Speaker 4: Colston Westbrook and the program that he was running in Vacaville.

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Speaker 4: Can you talk about that a little bit?

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Speaker 2: What I will say is that Westbrook is a really

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Speaker 2: fascinating character, and I think there's a lot of mystery

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Speaker 2: surrounding him. I think maybe his full story is not

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Speaker 2: known or people aren't talking. So there's some speculation that

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Speaker 2: he had worked for a company that was in Vietnam

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Speaker 2: during the war doing something. I'm really sure if it

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Speaker 2: was some kind of CIA mission.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: Again, it's all very mysterious. But he comes back to

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Speaker 2: the States and is organizing these groups and prisons, which

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Speaker 2: again kind of on paper, you know, this is good,

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Speaker 2: like any kind of education or any community orientation in

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Speaker 2: prisons would be a good thing. But there is definitely

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Speaker 2: speculation because of his kind of mysterious background. Was he

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Speaker 2: a plant of the government?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 2: Was he put into prisons to kind of like discredit

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Speaker 2: the far left, or to kind of rile things up

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Speaker 2: so they could be discredited for to kind of spy

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Speaker 2: on what's going on in the prisons. Again, a whole

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Speaker 2: lot isn't known. You have like the official story, and

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Speaker 2: then you have kind of all of these conspiracy theories

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Speaker 2: that go along with him.

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Speaker 4: And so is his program which was where Defreese met

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Speaker 4: Willie Wolf and I think Russell Little is that is

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Speaker 4: that correct?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Several on them.

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Speaker 2: I think the Harrises were also in those prison groups

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 4: So what is their sort of first activity.

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Speaker 2: So the SLA is forming in early nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and so they're writing manifestos, they're writing these guiding principles

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Speaker 2: and again on paper, you know, it looks good like

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Speaker 2: they want equality, and they want less division between rich

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Speaker 2: and poor, and they want a racial harmony and gender

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Speaker 2: equity like all of these things that we would say, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know that sounds good. But they definitely had the

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Speaker 2: more militaristic view like if this can't happen through kind

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Speaker 2: of regulated channels, then we are willing to take up

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Speaker 2: arms and basically have a revolution to fight for these things.

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Speaker 2: So their first main action was in November nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and they killed the Oakland School superintendent Marcus Foster and

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Speaker 2: they seriously injured his deputy superintendent, Robert Blackburn, and the

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Speaker 2: thing was though Foster was a black man, he had

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Speaker 2: come from Philadelphia, he had done great things for the

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia School District, came to Oakland doing great things for

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Speaker 2: the Oakland School District, like really turning these districts around

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Speaker 2: to have a lot of student success. So right away,

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Speaker 2: I mean from the very beginning, almost everyone after this

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Speaker 2: happened is saying, what the heck, what are you doing? Like,

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Speaker 2: by all accounts, this guy is doing really great things.

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Speaker 2: And plus he's black. You know, if you want racial harmony,

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Speaker 2: this is not going to be the way to do it.

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Speaker 2: So it was a really kind of bizarre first move

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Speaker 2: that the SLA undertook.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's sort of connected to some sort of

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Speaker 4: conspiracy theories that Dufreeze had about like a central database

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Speaker 4: that was going to get information from kids because of

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Speaker 4: their ID cards.

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Speaker 2: That was exactly it. There was a talk in some circles,

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Speaker 2: and you know, there were people at school board meetings

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Speaker 2: because they were really curious about this program. That it

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Speaker 2: did seem that Foster wanted to implement a student identification program,

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Speaker 2: mostly because there had been violence on school district property

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Speaker 2: perpetuated by people who were not students, you know, So

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Speaker 2: it was kind of like, hey, we just want to know,

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Speaker 2: like you're going to be on school property, we need

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Speaker 2: to know that you are actually part of this school,

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Speaker 2: so let's give you a badge. So it was kind

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Speaker 2: of more for safety measures. But yes, there was a

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Speaker 2: small population that said, oh, you're just going to feed

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Speaker 2: these students and their pictures into these databases and they

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Speaker 2: might be troubled students. And so they really saw the

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Speaker 2: quote unquote school to prison pipeline is what they thought

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Speaker 2: of this plan.

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Speaker 4: So they claim responsibility for the killing, right, and then

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Speaker 4: so how does that kind of change, you know, their situation.

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Speaker 2: Well before the murder of Foster, again just kind of

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Speaker 2: through their manifestos and communicats, you know, I think they

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Speaker 2: could have gotten maybe decent support, not a ton of support.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's still very militaristic, but you know, we

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Speaker 2: are in the Bay area that is really quite left

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Speaker 2: of center. But as soon as they murdered Foster, there

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Speaker 2: was hardly any support whatsoever to be found. And the

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Speaker 2: group's really tiny at this point to maybe ten people

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Speaker 2: that are part of the SLA. So if they really

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Speaker 2: did want to have a revolution and an army, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to do that with ten people, but after

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Speaker 2: they kill Foster, nobody wants to sign up to be

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Speaker 2: a part of this group.

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Speaker 4: So sort of the next sort of beat in their

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Speaker 4: story is that the arrest of Ramiro and Little, or

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Speaker 4: is that the bank.

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Speaker 2: It would be the arrest of Ramiro in Little. So

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Speaker 2: in January nineteen seventy four, there's traffic stop and Russ

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Speaker 2: Little and Joe Ramiro are in a car or a

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Speaker 2: van and it's the middle of the night, so the

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Speaker 2: police officer is pretty suspicious what's going on. I think

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Speaker 2: one of them gives a false ID, and I can't

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Speaker 2: remember if they search the vehicle or what happens, but

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Speaker 2: they find a gun and then that gun is linked

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Speaker 2: to the Foster murder, and so Little and Ramiro are

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Speaker 2: arrested right there where it gets back to the safe

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Speaker 2: house where the SLA had been staying, so they have

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Speaker 2: to abandon that safe house right away. So basically anybody

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Speaker 2: who's part of the ESLA at this point is going underground.

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Speaker 4: So what's going on with Camilla Hall at this point?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Camilla's only entry into this group is through

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Speaker 2: Patricia Souldasik, who later changed her name to Miss Moon.

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Speaker 2: So people might remember that name. By all accounts, it's sketchy.

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Speaker 2: In terms of documentation, Camilla is dead. Anybody who knew

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Speaker 2: her well is dead. So as far as when she

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Speaker 2: actually became part of the group little mysterious. But as

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Speaker 2: far as what I can tell, she was not part

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Speaker 2: of the group during the Foster murder and a couple

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Speaker 2: of other people who would eventually be members. There was

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Speaker 2: a meeting on New Year's Eve in nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and it looks at that point the SLA really coalesced,

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Speaker 2: and I believe, as far as I can tell, that's

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Speaker 2: when Camilla says, Okay, I'm all in. Because then two

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Speaker 2: days later, on January second, she buys a gun.

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Speaker 4: That was an interesting scene actually in the book. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: she goes in and the guy is selling guns. Is

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Speaker 4: like trying to process like this young single woman coming

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Speaker 4: in to buy a gun without like a man at

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Speaker 4: her side and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Exactly when you think about it, you know, you think

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Speaker 2: of gun shops in the seventies, I mean even today, right,

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Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of single women are marching

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Speaker 2: in the guns shops and signing up to get guns.

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Speaker 4: So at what point do they decide and why to

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Speaker 4: kidnap Patty Hurst.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the kidnapping, like a general plan to kidnap

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Speaker 2: someone does seem to have been a conversation in the

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Speaker 2: months leading up to the actual kidnapping in those prison groups,

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Speaker 2: just in terms of attention and in terms of possible

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Speaker 2: you know, monetary gain by kidnapping somebody who has some wealth.

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Speaker 5: So it looks like there.

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Speaker 2: Was a fairly lengthy list of people who were possible

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Speaker 2: targets for kidnapping when Ramiro and Little were arrested in

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Speaker 2: January and police could get into the house after everyone

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Speaker 2: had fled, that's where they're finding these lists, and it

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Speaker 2: looks like Hurst was on that list and some other people.

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Speaker 2: Strangely enough, I don't know why, but nobody who was

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Speaker 2: on that list was notified that they might be a

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Speaker 2: potential kidnapping target. So something got lost in translation there.

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Speaker 5: But as far.

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Speaker 2: As why Hurst, the group is starting to kind of

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Speaker 2: scope out her residence. You know, she's living with her fiancee.

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Speaker 2: They're just in this regular apartment in Berkeley. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's very wealthy, but it's not like she's ensconced in

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Speaker 2: some gated mansion or anything like that. So she's very accessible,

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Speaker 2: and she's very young too, right, So I'm sure that

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Speaker 2: all of those factors combined is why they thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: let's make her armin target.

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Speaker 4: So they kidnap Patty Hurst and they take her to

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Speaker 4: a safe house and they put her in a closet.

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Speaker 4: So do you have a sense how that affected the

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Speaker 4: dynamics within the group now that they have high profile

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Speaker 4: hostage and then be you know, suddenly the entire country

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Speaker 4: is paying attention to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that stealed their fate, right, nobody's going

231
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Speaker 2: anywhere at those points. I mean, if you're in the SLA,

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Speaker 2: you are in hiding. With the exception of Camilla again,

233
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Speaker 2: because she really wasn't connected to the other people in

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Speaker 2: the group, She's the last one to go around, so

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Speaker 2: she manages to stay above ground about three weeks after

236
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Speaker 2: the kidnapping, by the time the FBI is finally closing

237
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Speaker 2: in on acquaintances. But yeah, they're not going anywhere. They

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Speaker 2: certainly have to be very very careful. Now, how are

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Speaker 2: they going.

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Speaker 5: To get supplies?

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Speaker 2: They moved around a lot, so anytime they felt like,

242
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Speaker 2: oh this safe house, you know, we feel like we're

243
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Speaker 2: under target here, you know, let's pick up and let's

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Speaker 2: move to another one. So it was just a matter

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Speaker 2: of just consistently kind of having to scurry from place

246
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Speaker 2: to place.

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Speaker 4: I mean. The next sort of public action, that's a

248
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Speaker 4: Hibernia bank right, yes, yes, can you talk about that

249
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Speaker 4: a little bit.

250
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So they need money, so they decide to conduct

251
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Speaker 2: a bank robber. So this is April fifteenth, nineteen seventy four,

252
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Speaker 2: about two and a half months after the kidnapping. A

253
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Speaker 2: couple of weeks before this, though, is when we get

254
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Speaker 2: the famous message from Patty Hurst herself and the famous

255
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 2: photograph of her holding a machine gun in front of

256
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: the SLA flag that says, I'm a member of the SLA.

257
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Speaker 2: My name is Tanya. They told me I could leave.

258
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Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave. I've decided to stay and fight.

259
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Speaker 2: So by the time they do the bank robbery, Hurst

260
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 2: is by all accounts a member of the SLA, and

261
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 2: indeed she is in the bank. We can see the

262
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 2: surveillance tapes from that day and she's holding her machine

263
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Speaker 2: gun right there in the bank. So five members had

264
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Speaker 2: gone into the bank, they got about ten thousand dollars,

265
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Speaker 2: and the four other members were outside in a getaway car,

266
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Speaker 2: and so it all happened very very quickly, but they

267
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 2: were able to escape and nobody caught them right away.

268
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Speaker 4: After this, I think is when they start of split

269
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Speaker 4: up into three different like quote unquote cells. I guess

270
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Speaker 4: I thought that was kind of an interesting little insight

271
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Speaker 4: into the interpersonal dynamics that were going on there. Can

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Speaker 4: you talk about that a little bit?

273
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's all just so strange, you know

274
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Speaker 2: that it's nine people living in one apartment and they're

275
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Speaker 2: never leaving.

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Speaker 5: They're never going out, you know. So if we think

277
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Speaker 5: of the.

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Speaker 2: COVID lockdowns and how terrible that was, I mean, this

279
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Speaker 2: is just like that on steroids, to think of you're

280
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Speaker 2: never leaving anywhere, and so yeah, I think about that

281
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Speaker 2: a lot. Kind of the group dynamics group psychology, so

282
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Speaker 2: kind of in terms of like military tactics, they decide

283
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Speaker 2: to split into three different cells of three people just

284
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Speaker 2: to move around a little bit, you know, differently, especially

285
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Speaker 2: as they have to move from place to place instead

286
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 2: of all nine of them being together, they kind of

287
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 2: do this separation. So there was a little controversy there

288
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 2: because Patty Hurst was considered a week member and Camilla

289
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 2: was considered a week member.

290
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Speaker 5: So it's like nobody wanted them on their teams.

291
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Speaker 2: But somehow it had to work out that way, so

292
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Speaker 2: they were able to find their places.

293
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were both on Bill Harris's team, and then

294
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 4: Bill Harris was angry that he wasn't with Emily, so

295
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 4: they basically traded.

296
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Speaker 2: Yes, Bill did not want both Patty and Camilla, but

297
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 2: the idea was, well, you didn't want the husband and

298
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 2: wife together because you weren't supposed to have those kind

299
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 2: of relationships. But he went out yes, and so it

300
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 2: was he and Emily and Patty and that.

301
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 4: Sort of you know, foreshadows later events, what's important that

302
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 4: happens next or between this and then when they go

303
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 4: to La.

304
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Speaker 2: Yes, it's relatively quiet for them in the Bay Area

305
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: right after the bank robbery, but they are feeling very,

306
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 2: very pressured and they're getting increasingly paranoid. So anytime they

307
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 2: see a police car, anytime they hear helicopters, and for

308
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 2: a while I think they're in East Oakland where there

309
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,280
Speaker 2: was a pretty major police presence on a daily basis. Anyway,

310
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,919
Speaker 2: they're always hearing sirens and they're always hearing helicopters, so

311
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 2: they're getting very very paranoid. I'm not sure how close

312
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,479
Speaker 2: the FBI was to getting them at this point, but

313
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 2: they really felt like something was going to happen, and

314
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 2: so they decide to leave the Bay Area and go

315
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles because Donald Deafries had spent years in

316
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 2: LA so they feel like he's familiar with that city,

317
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Speaker 2: all right, So they.

318
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Speaker 4: Go to Los Angeles. Why aren't the Harrises and Patty

319
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 4: Hurst with the rest of the group when the shootout happens.

320
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Speaker 2: So they do go to LA in the three separate vehicles,

321
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: but then they all get to the same place when

322
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: they're looking for a place to rent where on May sixteenth,

323
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Speaker 2: Now it's determined that they need some supplies, so one

324
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 2: of the groups has to go get supplied, and so

325
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,879
Speaker 2: that task is given to the Harrises and Patty Hurst.

326
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,199
Speaker 2: So the other six are remaining in the house that

327
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 2: they found in south central LA to hide out, and

328
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 2: the Harris is in Hirst going to a sporting goods

329
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 2: store to get some supplies, and.

330
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Speaker 4: That being a fairly fraught shopping.

331
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Speaker 5: Expedition, it sure does.

332
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Speaker 2: So they're going to get supplies and they are buying everything.

333
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 2: They're going through the checkout line. For some reason, Bill

334
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 2: Harris decides to put a pair of socks in his

335
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 2: shirt to steal them, you know, like a dollar pair

336
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 2: of socks, and the clerk sees them. I think the

337
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 2: clerk has a gun. So the clerk decides to chase

338
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 2: them out of the store and confront Harris, and Harris

339
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 2: has his gun, and so there's a scuffle, and Patty

340
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 2: Hurst is in the van watching this whole thing. While

341
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 2: she said she's been trained to step in, you know,

342
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 2: if she sees any trouble for a member, and so

343
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 2: she starts to shoot at the scuffling pair. Paris manages

344
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 2: to get away, get into the van, and the van.

345
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 4: Takes off, all right. So while this is going on

346
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 4: at the safe house which they found, which is actually

347
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 4: they sort of pick it almost randomly. It's because it

348
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 4: has its lights on way way in the wee hours

349
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 4: of the morning. What's going on there?

350
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the rest of the group is at this

351
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,920
Speaker 2: safe house, the Harris's and hearst are in this van. Well,

352
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 2: they have to get rid of the van because everybody

353
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 2: witnesses have seen this van. So they get rid of

354
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 2: that van. They hijack another car to take but in

355
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 2: the van. When the police get to the van and

356
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 2: look through it, there's parking ticket. And so that's how

357
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: the police are able to get to where the other

358
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 2: six SLA members are hiding out.

359
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 4: It's all about the details.

360
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, the police kind of figure out, oh,

361
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 2: here's where the SLA is, they start to close in.

362
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 2: They're trying to be quiet about it because they want

363
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 2: to kind of sneak up on the SLA. But slowly

364
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 2: there's more and more police present. The people who are

365
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: living in the area, they know something's going on. Houses

366
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 2: nearby are like quietly being evacuated. They're setting up the

367
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,439
Speaker 2: perimeters to take out the people in the house. And

368
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 2: so it ends up being over four hundred police officers

369
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 2: are on the scene, including what had been a fairly

370
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 2: newly established SWAT team. So you have the tactical police

371
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 2: officers here too to take on the six people who

372
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 2: are in the house.

373
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 4: And what sort of is the culmination of this encounter.

374
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean all we have for the official

375
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 2: record is the police report, and so that the police

376
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 2: report says that the SLA started to shoot. Then the

377
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 2: police throw some tear gas into the house, there's shooting

378
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: there's about forty minutes of shooting, of back and forth shooting.

379
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 2: The tear gas is you know, kind of catching fire

380
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 2: in the house, and so quickly there's this inferno. And yeah,

381
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: it was just completely wild.

382
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 5: You know.

383
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 2: It was just kind of a stunning show of force

384
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: and just a really horrendous way for these six people

385
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: to die.

386
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,479
Speaker 4: It's interesting that that. I guess it's just because there

387
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 4: they were on the liberal side of things. But that's

388
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 4: not part of the litany of sort of government overreach

389
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 4: in you know, it doesn't fall in the you know,

390
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 4: Branch Davidians or Ruby Ridge or any of that stuff.

391
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 4: It sort of it seems like it sort of exists

392
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 4: outside that. Yeah, and I guess it must just be ideological.

393
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 4: I haven't really thought about it that much.

394
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I really compare it to you know,

395
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: like friend Fred Hampton, you know, how the guy was

396
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: just you know, they were not going to let this

397
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: guy live, you know, because he was he was such

398
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 2: a firebrand and people loved him and he was so

399
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 2: charismatic that they thought, wow, this guy could be a

400
00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 2: real danger to our you know, existing systems. And I

401
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: think that's definitely how they viewed the SLA too, Like,

402
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: no way were we going to let this group continue on,

403
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, with their militant revolutionary talk. We got to

404
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 2: take them out.

405
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 4: So Camilla Hall, she wasn't found for a couple of

406
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 4: days after the shootout.

407
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So apparently she comes out of the house,

408
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: you know. Some reports will say she came out to surrender.

409
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 2: The official police report says that she was shooting at

410
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: officers when she came out, So she was shot at.

411
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: Somebody inside of the house grabbed her body and dragged

412
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: it back inside. And these houses they didn't have full basements,

413
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 2: but they had like crawl spaces, so Camilla's body is

414
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 2: in a crawl space. So yes, when police can finally

415
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: get on the scene after everything's said and done, the

416
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: five bodies they find right away are just kind of

417
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 2: right there, you know, like on that mean level. And

418
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: they didn't find a six body. So yeah, it was

419
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: a couple of days before they found Camilla's body.

420
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 4: So it says that she'd been killed by a police

421
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: gunfire or what she wounded.

422
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 2: And then yeah, I think she was killed right away.

423
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: It seemed like that they were able to shoot her

424
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 2: right away in the head and I realized.

425
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 4: We're starting to get outside the scope of the book

426
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 4: a little bit. But what happens to the SLA after

427
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 4: the LA shootout?

428
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so basically there's three members left of the SLA

429
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: after the shootout. You have the Harrises and you have Hers.

430
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: So they want to keep.

431
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 5: Going and they need help.

432
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: So they get back to the Bay Area and they

433
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: do find some people who were sympathetic to their cause,

434
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: and you know, maybe they even knew them before all

435
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: of this, but they weren't official members of the SLA.

436
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: So now they're kind of going to like, hey, who

437
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: can help us? Who can help us?

438
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 5: And so they do manage to reform with a few

439
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 5: new members.

440
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: And then the Harrises and Patty sort of go on

441
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: the lamb in Pennsylvania at a farmhouse.

442
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they cross the country like two different times.

443
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: I mean, they are on the move, but there is

444
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: a period of time that they are yep, at a

445
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania farmhouse. It's the three of them, and I believe

446
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: it's Wendy Yeshimura is the fourth one, who are living

447
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: in this farmhouse for like three months or something like that.

448
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 4: And then they go back. They end up eventually sort

449
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 4: of leaving Pennsylvania, they go back to the Bay Area

450
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: and that's where they're finally apprehended, and strangely it happens

451
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: in between the two assassination attempts.

452
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: It's a wild time. I mean, I just keep thinking

453
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 2: of the seventies and especially in California, just I mean,

454
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: we live in weird times now, but also that must

455
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: have been very weird time to live through.

456
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 4: In the end, sort of what did you or kind

457
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 4: of your conclusions about Camilla Hall and her whole part

458
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 4: in this very brief but violent and high profile existence

459
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 4: of the SLA.

460
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

461
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: Well, you know, one thing that this really made me

462
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 2: realize or think more about is that nobody makes a

463
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: sudden turn. And I think a lot of times in

464
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: the media it kind of looks like, oh, people just snap,

465
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: you know, the snap, and you know, one morning they

466
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: were just great and normal, the next day they're, you know,

467
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: a radical. And for Camilla, you know that certainly wasn't

468
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: the case. So it's kind of like anything with history, right,

469
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: you have to dig deeper and know that there's kind

470
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: of this.

471
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 5: Huge, full, well rounded story.

472
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: But there were just so many factors that went into

473
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: her radicalization. She had a lot of loss in her life.

474
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: All three siblings had died before her when they were

475
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: quite young, so you know, it was a very very

476
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: grief stricken, very sad upbringing. She was close to her parents,

477
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: but not especially so. She was gay, but it was

478
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: a time where you couldn't really be coming out to

479
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: your parents or family members. That there was a lot

480
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: of cleariness about that. So she's keeping these secrets and

481
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: she has.

482
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 5: A lot of grief.

483
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: She is angry, you know, I mean people, many people

484
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: were angry in the sixties and seventies, and so there

485
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: are things about the government that she doesn't agree with,

486
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: and I think she just found a group of people

487
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 2: that accepted her. And you know, at the surface, we're

488
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: saying things that she believed in, and I think she

489
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: just also thought, what did she have to lose?

490
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: Thank you to Rachel Hannell, author of the book Not

491
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: the Camilla We Knew. One woman's path from small town

492
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: America to the Symbionese Liberation Army.

493
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 4: I'm Toby Ball.

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00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

495
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite show. For more

496
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 3: information on rip current, visit the show website at ripcurrentpod

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00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: dot com.