Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I'm not comte stories of things. We simply
Speaker 1: don't know the answer to space, the Final Frontier. We're
Speaker 1: thinking sideways the podcast. Okay, wow, best intro ever if
Speaker 1: anybody's good future. I am Steve as always, I am
Speaker 1: joined by my co host, the orchestro Clap Joe, And
Speaker 1: as we did in our lovely musical intro, we are
Speaker 1: the t the host of Thinking Sideways. This is getting
Speaker 1: all out of control really fast. Yeah, no structure, we
Speaker 1: need structures. We do. But just if you don't know
Speaker 1: we solved mysteries. We tend to try to solve mysteries.
Speaker 1: Show lies about us solving mysteries. He does occasionally. Well,
Speaker 1: we have another mystery this week that we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about, which is the Black Knights satellite. This story
Speaker 1: got suggested to us a long time ago, and I
Speaker 1: really apologize to whoever was the first person to suggest
Speaker 1: it to us, because I sort of lost your email
Speaker 1: and didn't write it down and I don't have your name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Benjamin Uh suggested it a couple of months ago. I
Speaker 1: have that written down, so he gets the prize. But
Speaker 1: to whoever the other person was, thank you. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: it was Benjamin. I know this. We've this one's been
Speaker 1: in the hopper for all long time. We're trying to
Speaker 1: get better about writing that stuff down. Yeah, we've been
Speaker 1: doing pretty good, but in the beginning we're pretty sloppy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but let's talk about the Black Knights satellite. This. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna preface this right now, which this is one
Speaker 1: of those stories that has been told and rehashed and
Speaker 1: re told so many times that it is so hard
Speaker 1: to get to the roots story that I'm just gonna give. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell kind of the commingled version, which
Speaker 1: is what you see on a lot of the places
Speaker 1: that you read about it. Come to think of it,
Speaker 1: that's kind of seems to be the version of the
Speaker 1: story that we tell a lot version, Yeah, the ones
Speaker 1: that are all just full of all kinds of fun stuff.
Speaker 1: Ye An, yep. So we're we're gonna we're just gonna
Speaker 1: go with every little bit that is on here to
Speaker 1: tell this story today. According to the lore, the Black
Speaker 1: Knights satellite was first discovered by none other Nicola Tesla.
Speaker 1: That doesn't surprise me, yep, the one of the Granddaddy's
Speaker 1: a science The Granddaddy is he the granddaddy. Ink. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think they were. There's older granddaddies. But Tesla did
Speaker 1: some amazing He did some amazing stuff. The granddaddy. I'm
Speaker 1: not even gonna go there. In eighteen nine nine, Tesla
Speaker 1: was using a high voltage radio receiver is what you
Speaker 1: would be using, uh, And it was a two hundred
Speaker 1: foot tower he was I think he was in Colorado.
Speaker 1: He'd gotten funding by one of his major backers to
Speaker 1: build this thing. But he was picking up unusual transmissions,
Speaker 1: which he believed had to be intelligent because they were
Speaker 1: very consistent, they were repeating patterns, and he evidently thought
Speaker 1: that they were likely to be extraterrestrial. I know that
Speaker 1: he thought that they were intelligent, but I've also seen
Speaker 1: that it was said that he believed they were extraterrestrials.
Speaker 1: It was coming from space. It was coming from space.
Speaker 1: May actually later when we moved in this story, is
Speaker 1: gonna do this a bunch. We're gonna do a bunch
Speaker 1: of skips in time. We're gonna skip forward to the
Speaker 1: nine twenties. Unusual transmissions began being picked up by Ham
Speaker 1: radio operators, and they were they were obviously earthly in origin.
Speaker 1: Because they were transmissions coming from Earth, but they were
Speaker 1: weird and they shouldn't have been picked up where and
Speaker 1: when they were picked up. These are something that at
Speaker 1: the time no one understood and today we don't really
Speaker 1: know what they are or what causes them. But there
Speaker 1: what are referred to as l d s, which stands
Speaker 1: for long delay echoes, and people have attributed this to
Speaker 1: the Black Night satellite. We talked about thought a little
Speaker 1: bit during Lost Boil Area skipping skipping, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a similar phenomena to skipping. Yeah, so yeah, essentially that's
Speaker 1: what they're saying, then, is that the Black Knight satellite
Speaker 1: picked up these transmissions and then bounced them back to
Speaker 1: didn't just echo off the off the satellite, but it
Speaker 1: actually absorber it recorded it, retransmitted back down at different
Speaker 1: intervals and a delay. Yes, the delay was not consistent,
Speaker 1: though I understand correct. It is not a consistent delay
Speaker 1: can anywhere. I think it's anywhere from six to thirty
Speaker 1: to thirty seconds to sometimes up to a minute or so.
Speaker 1: It's it's really inconsistent. It's really weird, that a little weird.
Speaker 1: We're gonna move forward again to nine to Nino, and
Speaker 1: according to the story, the US government released information that
Speaker 1: they had detected two satellites that we're gonna polar orbit. First,
Speaker 1: you need to understand that we, and by we I
Speaker 1: mean the human race, not us specifically Team Side yes,
Speaker 1: not Team Sideways, but the actual human race had not
Speaker 1: yet developed a capability to put a satellite into orbit.
Speaker 1: That wouldn't happen until October four, nine seven, when sput
Speaker 1: Nick was put into orbit, So we hadn't launched a
Speaker 1: satellite at all. I guess we should clarify also that
Speaker 1: satellite can mean anything that's orbiting, right. It doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: mean that it's of the satellite. Yes, anything that is
Speaker 1: intentionally orbiting the Earth, So it doesn't necessarily mean it
Speaker 1: was mechanical or anything like that. Very true. The other
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind is that this, well, actually
Speaker 1: it's it says that there were two satellites at the
Speaker 1: time in a polar orbit. And I want to talk
Speaker 1: about a polar orbit real quick so that people know
Speaker 1: what this is, because this is important. Most satellites are
Speaker 1: in an equatorial or semi equatorial orbit. That means they're
Speaker 1: going around the equator, and most people do satellites even
Speaker 1: today that way because it's easier because when a rocket
Speaker 1: is launched, you use the the inertia of the Earth
Speaker 1: to propel it in that direction. Not the inertia, but
Speaker 1: the speed. The rotation. Rotation is what I was after.
Speaker 1: But it helps with it. Yeah, so it gets it going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why most most of them are west to east.
Speaker 1: There's only a few of the east to west. But
Speaker 1: but the thing is is going in the opposite direction,
Speaker 1: or even more so, going in a polar orbit is
Speaker 1: hard because you kind of negate all of that speed
Speaker 1: that you've picked up on launch and then get something
Speaker 1: to rotate over each of the poles. So instead of
Speaker 1: going around the equator, we're rotated at ninety degrees. Now
Speaker 1: you're going over both the poles of going east west
Speaker 1: or west east, they're going north, south or southa correctly.
Speaker 1: And that's a very good way to put it. And
Speaker 1: that's what you do for that is you just launched
Speaker 1: from a more northerly um launch point. That also helps
Speaker 1: a lot. But yeah, it's not tremendously unusual. A lot
Speaker 1: of survey and spice satellites have polar orbits because that's
Speaker 1: a great way to cover the entire surface of the
Speaker 1: plane didn't very short at the time. That's the upside
Speaker 1: of the polar orbit is you're circling around the poles
Speaker 1: while the Earth is circling around underneath you, so you
Speaker 1: can take images of the whole thing, right, Yeah, So yeah,
Speaker 1: lots of lots of survey satellites and stuff like that
Speaker 1: use use the polar that's that's yeah. I mean obviously,
Speaker 1: our our earliest launches were just west to ease. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and the first the first satellite, and I use
Speaker 1: that that satellite, what man made satellite? Yes, the first
Speaker 1: man made sate, thank you, uh that we put into
Speaker 1: a polar orbit of any kind didn't happen until nineteen sixty.
Speaker 1: And this report is from nineteen fifty four, so there's
Speaker 1: some strange this there. The other thing is that, according
Speaker 1: to these reports, that satellite was transmitting radio signals that
Speaker 1: could be detected, but it couldn't be picked up the
Speaker 1: satellites from both of them, yes, or at least one
Speaker 1: of them. Again, this is where the story gets a
Speaker 1: little fudgy. And I don't know, but signals are being sent,
Speaker 1: they're being picked up. We don't know what they are,
Speaker 1: and then the satellites just kind of disappear, or maybe
Speaker 1: we lost track of them. I'm not positive, but there's
Speaker 1: no more reporting on it at that time. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what our tracking abilities were back in those days,
Speaker 1: because I mean, these days we have radars because obviously
Speaker 1: we want to track all the satellites that are up there.
Speaker 1: And yeah, at that time, I don't know how. I
Speaker 1: don't even know how they picked them up. That's the
Speaker 1: hard part is, I don't know how these things were
Speaker 1: discovered because it can't find it in in the lore. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use that phrase. All of the retellings and
Speaker 1: the stuff that I've found and digging through, and I
Speaker 1: can't find out how it was picked up, just that
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, so it makes you wonder. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna skip ahead a couple of years to nine seven. Uh.
Speaker 1: There are accounts that the Black Night satellite was photographed
Speaker 1: following sput Nick two by a guy named Dr Caralis Coralis.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's Venezuela. It happened in Venezuela, so
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that it's it's a name that's of some
Speaker 1: Spanish origin, But I'm terrible at pronunciations, as we all
Speaker 1: know by now. So what I'm just gonna go with that.
Speaker 1: Somehow the b KS managed to swing out of its
Speaker 1: polar orbit and and and get behind Sputnik two. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: evidently who was shadowing sput Nick two. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: took he took this photo of it when he was
Speaker 1: in he was in Caracas. But again, this is this
Speaker 1: is another bit. It's so jumbled, it's so muddle. I
Speaker 1: can't get good details on this that's good enough to retell.
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna kind of leave it at that
Speaker 1: as it was. Photographs shadowing spot Nick two. And no,
Speaker 1: no pho, no copies of the photograph exists anywhere I
Speaker 1: take it. I can't find them. I haven't seen anything. Again,
Speaker 1: We're gonna skip forward in time a couple of years
Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty. At that time, the US and the
Speaker 1: Russians had put successfully quite a few satellites into orbit.
Speaker 1: But you got to remember those. Of course, now we're
Speaker 1: in the Cold War, and just freaks the US military
Speaker 1: out that, oh my god, there's satellites up there that
Speaker 1: could be, you know, recording us or taking pictures of us.
Speaker 1: You gotta keep track of those signs you do. And
Speaker 1: so they put up a net, a kind of a
Speaker 1: radar net like what you were alluding to a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier, Joe, so that they could track what came across.
Speaker 1: There was one on the eastern coast, one on the
Speaker 1: western coast, so they could track the things that came by.
Speaker 1: On February eleven of nineteen sixty, newspapers announced that an
Speaker 1: object was detected that was of unknown origins, and it
Speaker 1: was described as a dark, tumbling object that was at
Speaker 1: a seventy nine It's orbiting seventy nine degrees off the equator,
Speaker 1: so close to a polar orbit. Um. Yeah, kind of,
Speaker 1: it's not exactly a true polar orbit as it was
Speaker 1: described from the nineteen fifty four reports, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: But it's also said that it had an eccentric or
Speaker 1: erratic orbit, and it had an apogee of and this
Speaker 1: is where I'm gonna need your help here, Joe. So
Speaker 1: it says the apogee was one thousand, seven hundred twenty
Speaker 1: eight kilometers. What is that going to be in miles? Okay?
Speaker 1: And it had a parody of two hundred and sixteen kilometers,
Speaker 1: So what is that? Well, what is that equate two
Speaker 1: in miles. So yeah, is the low point in a bit,
Speaker 1: appig is the high point in the orbit. And the
Speaker 1: easy way that I always think of it is a
Speaker 1: way and appog will start with an A, which puts
Speaker 1: Paragy closer. Does that make sense? The A and the P.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a what's what's the word I'm
Speaker 1: looking for, Tom, thank you? It's not, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of It's the way I remembered is apps away that
Speaker 1: puts Paragy close. It's it's not the best thing, but
Speaker 1: that's how I keep it straight in my little headshare. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but now that was nine sixty. Now that this particular orbit,
Speaker 1: that this is what the U. S. Military reported, because
Speaker 1: I thought they reported something with a little bit not
Speaker 1: quite such an an erratic or that's again that's the
Speaker 1: difficulty here is that with retellings, it's hard to pin
Speaker 1: down exactly what was talked about or reported. I gotta
Speaker 1: say with you, if if this isn't indeed an alien
Speaker 1: object that they put in a put an orbit around
Speaker 1: the planet, they did kind of a crappy job. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing obviously that I don't like talking about because
Speaker 1: I don't want to ever think about it. But you know,
Speaker 1: the whole like lost cosmonaut thing is like nineteen fifty nine.
Speaker 1: Uh so, I mean, you know, to have some weird
Speaker 1: lost space stuff in accidental orbit of the Earth, isn't
Speaker 1: you know? It's not it's not. Here's here's something. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've been talking about the orbit and stuff being up there,
Speaker 1: but here's something that's weird about the orbit. To me
Speaker 1: is things that are in a stable orbit have to
Speaker 1: be two d two miles or more above the Earth.
Speaker 1: This thing was what was the miles, which to me
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense because that seems like it would come
Speaker 1: too close gravity and atmosphere would drag it and slow
Speaker 1: it down and pull it back to Earth. So it's
Speaker 1: a weird orbit to It would take a long time
Speaker 1: for that orbit the k but it would eventually. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's also said that, and this is talking about the
Speaker 1: size of the satellite. It's said that the object was
Speaker 1: calculated to be somewhere between ten to fifteen tons. How
Speaker 1: I have no idea how that calculation was done, but
Speaker 1: that is that is miles and miles heavier, much much
Speaker 1: heavier than anything we had been able to put into
Speaker 1: orbit at that time. For the aliens um and I
Speaker 1: can't get a clear bead on the size of it.
Speaker 1: And this is this is the part that really jumps
Speaker 1: out to me. Based on that weight is I've seen
Speaker 1: to a couple of places say that it was two
Speaker 1: ft by three foot, which would put it at what
Speaker 1: three six twelve cubic feet objects, Yeah, that's over a
Speaker 1: ton a cubic foot. That's freaking heavy. I mean there
Speaker 1: are some there are some metal cials that could be
Speaker 1: like that, but it has to be totally solid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some some asteroids are, they're made of heavy metals. But
Speaker 1: I don't think anything that down and yeah, I would
Speaker 1: have to be right. And so then you run into
Speaker 1: the problem of if it is broadcasting anything there can't
Speaker 1: also be contained within the technology to broadcasts that we
Speaker 1: know how to welfare that we know how to we
Speaker 1: know how to make, but you know how to make everything, Steve.
Speaker 1: Have you seen Joe's spacement? He makes everything down I
Speaker 1: got little elves down there, one of these things down there.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing about if it's only two by
Speaker 1: three feet, then how did doctor what's his name of
Speaker 1: karacoss wal to manage to snap a picture of it?
Speaker 1: Let's let's see it. Well, I don't think Sputnik was
Speaker 1: very big. I don't, Yeah, I guess, but Nick wasn't
Speaker 1: all that big either. Sputnik two would have been the
Speaker 1: same design, just the second one shot up into space.
Speaker 1: But I mean, the thing is is that what we're
Speaker 1: gonna find with this story is we go through the
Speaker 1: orbit changes, the weight changes, and the size changes. All
Speaker 1: these things change as we go and and so that's
Speaker 1: why I wanted to call it out. But if we
Speaker 1: go back to this nineteen sixties stuff, the military, according
Speaker 1: to the story, got really interested and they put a
Speaker 1: lot of effort into researching this mystery satellite, and they
Speaker 1: commissioned a special committee to gather information on it. And
Speaker 1: those findings have never been released. Nobody's ever seen them.
Speaker 1: After that's a good question. After tracking this, what they
Speaker 1: are people are saying was the Black Night satellite in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty for three weeks it again disappeared. But during
Speaker 1: that time, the strange transmissions, the l DSE, the long,
Speaker 1: the way echoes were being picked up. We're gonna move
Speaker 1: just slightly forward. In nineteen sixty to September three, there
Speaker 1: is a tracking camera at Grooming Aircraft Corporation. It was
Speaker 1: at their Long Island factory or facility, and it said
Speaker 1: that it took a photo of the Black Night satellite.
Speaker 1: This is where things get a little kinky to me,
Speaker 1: is people on the ground said they had been seeing
Speaker 1: it for about two weeks. They could make it out.
Speaker 1: It was red and glowing and moving east to west. Uh.
Speaker 1: The speed was about it was described as being about
Speaker 1: three times as normal. And it's shape like I talked
Speaker 1: about a minute ago, it's it's changed again in this
Speaker 1: It is now about nineteen ft long and ways thirty
Speaker 1: two thousand pounds. I don't I guess my question on that, right,
Speaker 1: is that just uh, how at what point do you
Speaker 1: just say, well, obviously it's something different, you know. I
Speaker 1: think at some point you say that doesn't sound anything
Speaker 1: like this. I don't know what your basis for claiming
Speaker 1: it's the Black Knight satellite is. It doesn't have any
Speaker 1: of the any kind of basic that's never been reported
Speaker 1: to glow red has been reported movies to west. Right.
Speaker 1: So I think at some point on a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff like this, and I know we are inclined to
Speaker 1: do that and I want to do it again, is
Speaker 1: just say, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's
Speaker 1: clearly not I'm I'm on board. I'm trying to throw
Speaker 1: that one out, absolutely because going from a near polar
Speaker 1: orbit to suddenly being in an equatorial orbit that's amazing.
Speaker 1: But not only that, but to have changed size and
Speaker 1: color so drastically and speed. It's a transformer clearly not
Speaker 1: actually that it's not an autobotic, it's a decepticon. Maybe
Speaker 1: if you're moving three's it's a fast that must mean
Speaker 1: that means also you're a lot lower in there, a
Speaker 1: lot lower down, because that's why that's how you keep
Speaker 1: from dropping into the gravity well of the planet is
Speaker 1: to to speed up. The closer you get the more
Speaker 1: the faster you have to go, and move farther out
Speaker 1: you can go slower. So you know, this thing apparently
Speaker 1: can move itself around pretty good. Maybe it's just something
Speaker 1: totally different. Yeah, it could be. We're gonna go to
Speaker 1: some more strange things that are attributed to the Black
Speaker 1: Knight satellite. Uh, do either of you know who Gordon
Speaker 1: Cooper is? Who is he Joe Mercury, Memricury ast or not? Yes,
Speaker 1: he was, he was on Mercury nine for anybody who
Speaker 1: doesn't know. The Mercury program was putting men in capsules
Speaker 1: and shooting them into space, and they were circling the
Speaker 1: globe and then splashing back down into the ocean to
Speaker 1: figure out how to survive in space. By the way,
Speaker 1: if you want to read a good book on the subject,
Speaker 1: The Right Stuff by Tom Wolf. It's a great book.
Speaker 1: I haven't I don't remember watching the movie as a kid,
Speaker 1: but I never read the book. You gotta read the book.
Speaker 1: The book. The book is much better, I can only
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be shocked by that. But if you want
Speaker 1: to know everything you wanted to know about the Mercury
Speaker 1: program and then read this book, it's awesome, awesome, Okay, uh, well,
Speaker 1: you know it's funny. Who was the first man in space? Um?
Speaker 1: It was Alan Shepherd? Yeah, yeah, So one of the
Speaker 1: things Cooper's first attempted launch, they scrubbed it. He was,
Speaker 1: he was in the cockpit, he's ready to go, and
Speaker 1: then they had described it for some technical reason. But
Speaker 1: like every single launched NASA has attempted in the last
Speaker 1: four years. Yeah, but who was it was? Shepherd? Shepherd?
Speaker 1: Believe I think you're right. I can't remember, but uh yeah,
Speaker 1: Cooper got into the cockpit and he found I a
Speaker 1: plunger from Shepherd. That's because when he had gone up,
Speaker 1: evidently there was an issue with the plumbing of his
Speaker 1: toilet system, and so as a joke, he had given
Speaker 1: him a plunger to take with him into space. But
Speaker 1: that didn't actually end up going into space because that
Speaker 1: mission got scrubbed. But when Cooper finally did get into space,
Speaker 1: he orbited the Earth twenty two times before he came
Speaker 1: back down on trip fifteen around the globe. That's where
Speaker 1: the strangeness comes in. Cooper reported a greenish UFO to NASA,
Speaker 1: and the people at the tracking station of NASA also
Speaker 1: saw this on his readouts and displays. And it's it's
Speaker 1: important to point out Cooper wasn't afraid to report UFOs.
Speaker 1: He evidently reported a couple of UFO in sightings because
Speaker 1: he was a test pilot and he would see things
Speaker 1: and he would call it a UFO because he didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was, and because it was by definition
Speaker 1: and flying, it's not what we would consider today to
Speaker 1: be a space aliene. Yeah no, but he he would
Speaker 1: report those things, so it's credible that he would have
Speaker 1: reported this, and according to the story, it's corroborated by
Speaker 1: this these I think it's up to a hundred people
Speaker 1: that were in the NASA tracking station in Australia that
Speaker 1: saw it on their screens. So, in other words, the
Speaker 1: blacke Knights satellite and once again changed the store. But
Speaker 1: now it's going west to east again. Oh, because it
Speaker 1: was because of the Shepherd instance, well, because Cooper incident. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know, at least in
Speaker 1: this writing. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was orbiting together.
Speaker 1: It just means that he saw go past them him, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's entirely possible. It was still orbiting north south,
Speaker 1: but it had never been described as having this greenish
Speaker 1: glow that he described what he had been that close
Speaker 1: to it before. Yeah, was it coming towards him or
Speaker 1: moving past him behind him? I don't know. Again, it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where the accounting of this is
Speaker 1: just so brief and it's just splashed and then that's it.
Speaker 1: You get you get the flash, but you don't in
Speaker 1: any of the follow up details. Now, some of this
Speaker 1: stuff we will be going into in more detail in
Speaker 1: the theory section. So before anybody, you know, screaming at
Speaker 1: us what's going on, just be aware. We're gonna come
Speaker 1: back to some of this stuff. But I just want
Speaker 1: to We're gonna have to circle back to a couple
Speaker 1: of times from Yeah. Another newspaper article that we have
Speaker 1: from nineteen nine said that the Apollo ten astronauts and
Speaker 1: those would be young Sernin and Stafford, were the first
Speaker 1: to actually fill a extraterrestrial beacon, which was called the Monolith.
Speaker 1: It's it's a small version of what you saw in
Speaker 1: the movie or read about in the book two one
Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. Yeah, okay, sorry, yep, no, but yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's it's from two thousand one. Like I said,
Speaker 1: the Apollo ten crew evidently filmed it from all angles.
Speaker 1: But I'm sorry I did. I did a quick Google search, um,
Speaker 1: and that footage doesn't exist on the internet somewhere I know,
Speaker 1: or depending on your perspective, not surprisingly yeah, depending yep.
Speaker 1: The first cosmonaut in space. Uh, let's see, that was
Speaker 1: Eerie Garon. Is that how you would say that? I
Speaker 1: believe that's how it's pronounced. He cited the Monolith in
Speaker 1: sixty one, and then Alan Shepard who were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1: Evidently he is supposedly supposedly his report had reported it
Speaker 1: as well. But I I say that with a lot
Speaker 1: of hesitance. I don't know. Again, this is just the
Speaker 1: way the story is told. And you see it. If
Speaker 1: we move then to ninety three again, we're that's a
Speaker 1: little farther skipping time. A researcher, his name is Duncan Lunin.
Speaker 1: He decided that he wanted to try to figure out
Speaker 1: what the l D transmissions that were being picked up meant,
Speaker 1: what the deal was. And he did an amazing job.
Speaker 1: He did. He went to the records of the transmissions
Speaker 1: and he analyzed him and what he determined was that
Speaker 1: they were from another race. And they included a star
Speaker 1: chart too. And I know I'm gonna butcher this pronunciations
Speaker 1: thet s a salon butts, but I know booties is incorrect.
Speaker 1: It's a double star in the bot S constellation. It's
Speaker 1: got that what is the little double dot over the
Speaker 1: east the out on the second oh, which makes it
Speaker 1: so hard to pronounce. But what here's how he figures
Speaker 1: this out is he figured this out by plotting the
Speaker 1: delay time of the signal against the order in which
Speaker 1: the echoes were received. That's what he said he did.
Speaker 1: Now what that means, I don't I don't have the
Speaker 1: scientific backing to to explain. But based on that research,
Speaker 1: he said the signals were twelve thousand, six hundred years old.
Speaker 1: Well they would have had. I mean, it would be
Speaker 1: not so hard to do the math on that, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, realistically, if if you can say, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: coming from that star, the science behind saying it's coming
Speaker 1: from there not, but to figure out how long it
Speaker 1: would have taken from something to get there from here?
Speaker 1: How how he figured out the star chart, because he
Speaker 1: says it it included you know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's coordinates or star chart, but that's how he figured
Speaker 1: out what consolation would language. Yeah, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how many how many light years from us long ways?
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear the are there are there recordings
Speaker 1: of l d s on the internet, of these specific
Speaker 1: l E d s. Well these I don't think these
Speaker 1: ones would be out there, the ones that Lunin was
Speaker 1: looking at, because this is in but l d s
Speaker 1: still happen, and I imagine that they're on the internet.
Speaker 1: I didn't think to look to listen to them, because
Speaker 1: from what I understand, l d s are repeats of
Speaker 1: signals from Earth. They're just echoes. So that's why it's
Speaker 1: a little weird to me that he found this extraterrestrial
Speaker 1: location called out. But yeah, I don't know, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was pondering that too. It seems a
Speaker 1: little fantastic, but it's uh, you know. My one thing
Speaker 1: is that if if you're a satellite and you just
Speaker 1: don't have the gumption to just broadcast a message directly
Speaker 1: at planet Earth, but you want to, you want to
Speaker 1: send a message, what a clever way to do it
Speaker 1: is to is to receive a radio signal and then
Speaker 1: retrans at it back. But they're the interval by which
Speaker 1: you traveled to transmit a mess and that and so
Speaker 1: the interval that the variation in the interval contains information.
Speaker 1: Actually it's not bad. You know, if we're gonna theorize
Speaker 1: for a second, I'm don't hop ahead to theories, but
Speaker 1: to just quickly theorial if we're if we are, if
Speaker 1: we were to say that the Black Knight satellite were,
Speaker 1: for instance, an alien spaceship that was stranded or something
Speaker 1: of that nature, right, that they were not powerful enough
Speaker 1: to exit our orbit, but also didn't want to die
Speaker 1: on their entry in or whatever trying to send a
Speaker 1: distress signal. If they're basically a dormant ship, that would
Speaker 1: be a really good, easy, like energy conserving way is
Speaker 1: to just hold one back, you know, to not You
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to actually broadcast a new message or anything
Speaker 1: like that. You just can delay it a little bit.
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, it's still broadcasting there. It makes
Speaker 1: me think, what was that movie that that came out
Speaker 1: last year, the Matthew McConaughey movie about space, Interstellar, And
Speaker 1: one of the things that they do is he transmitted
Speaker 1: messages in like binary code and stuff like that. I
Speaker 1: mean that to me is in line with what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, not exact, but it makes me think about that.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it. It's actually pretty good. But you
Speaker 1: can control the volume, because the volume on that movie
Speaker 1: is terrible. I will not in a movie about people
Speaker 1: in space, Steve, you know my thing about people in space.
Speaker 1: So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give Devon
Speaker 1: a DVD that says it's the movie Heathers and then
Speaker 1: she and I'm gonna actually print on it, so it
Speaker 1: says the Heathers. She'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna watch
Speaker 1: Heathers and then she's gonna pop it in. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be interstellar to you. And you got it. You gotta
Speaker 1: program so it disabled the off button. That's important. I
Speaker 1: will turn it off. Sorry, and we're at we're a
Speaker 1: little off. Let's get back to the story years old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's that's yeah. No, we're not gonna do that
Speaker 1: right now. Let's move to the last big thing about
Speaker 1: the Black Knights satellite, which is again skipping head in time.
Speaker 1: The astronauts aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavor, which was gonna
Speaker 1: go meet up with the International Space Station the I
Speaker 1: S S S. Sorry I added an extra s. It's
Speaker 1: the ICE think that's some other weird group. But they
Speaker 1: were going to go there because I don't remember what
Speaker 1: they were doing. At one point, they suddenly saw this
Speaker 1: strange black object out their window and they took a
Speaker 1: bunch of high quality photos of this black object traveling
Speaker 1: away from them. And if you go out on Google
Speaker 1: you can find these images. Yeah, any website that's about
Speaker 1: the Black satellite has at least one of these at
Speaker 1: least one, if not all and there, and they always
Speaker 1: crop them up just so you can just see it.
Speaker 1: Not everything around it, but you see a lot of it.
Speaker 1: And now everybody's favorite time theories. Let's go into the theories.
Speaker 1: And we've we've talked about the first theory a little bit,
Speaker 1: which is, Okay, it truly is something extraterrestrial. And I
Speaker 1: think that I've got a little guf for this in
Speaker 1: the past. It's not that I don't disbelieve in aliens.
Speaker 1: I just don't believe in aliens. Like no, I I
Speaker 1: believe in aliens. It's just a lot of things that
Speaker 1: are automatically attributed to aliens strike me wrong because it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. And and but but I'm going to
Speaker 1: suspend that, and we're going to talk about this. I
Speaker 1: don't understand why something like this would be circling the
Speaker 1: globe for so long basically doing nothing. Well, but we
Speaker 1: don't really know that's been circling the globe that long. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's your right. We don't know how long it's been there.
Speaker 1: According to what we evidently in the fifties is when
Speaker 1: we figured out something was up sixty years Okay, And
Speaker 1: then you can just go ahead and assume it's possible
Speaker 1: that a lifespan isn't the same, right, their time scale
Speaker 1: isn't the same. Also, there's something to be said for
Speaker 1: gathering data. Then you want a big cample source for
Speaker 1: that data. There might not be It might be a
Speaker 1: robotic probe, but not actually people by aliens, and and
Speaker 1: and and The thing that that I had, this is
Speaker 1: the way I had to deal with it in my
Speaker 1: head is okay, Well, we we keep hearing stuff about
Speaker 1: it disappearing and it changing its course a little bit.
Speaker 1: So maybe it's a little shy and it's happily rotating
Speaker 1: or circling the globe, and then oh, look, a couple
Speaker 1: of rockets pop up because I need to get out
Speaker 1: of the neighborhood. So it's got to have some kind
Speaker 1: of control, pushes itself farther away from the planet. Look
Speaker 1: the rockets are gone. Yeah, comes back in. Oh, now,
Speaker 1: we're us humans in space all the time, so it
Speaker 1: has to stay farther out to keep from being detected.
Speaker 1: So I can see if it is an information gathering
Speaker 1: thing and it doesn't want to be discovered, I can
Speaker 1: see why that would be. But it's still weird. To
Speaker 1: me that the orbit has changed so much. I guess
Speaker 1: I don't have that problem because I choose to disbelieve
Speaker 1: the reports of the orbit changing that much that I mean,
Speaker 1: there are consistent reports throughout time, right that it's been
Speaker 1: essentially the same orbit essentially right, versus like a few
Speaker 1: outliers where it's just people who are clearly describing something
Speaker 1: else exactly who are saying it's the Black Knight style.
Speaker 1: So it's not a problem to me that it would
Speaker 1: just be in the same orbit. Okay, I can run
Speaker 1: with that. And we've we've we've already gone into what
Speaker 1: the the reason for the d Yeah, so I don't
Speaker 1: think we need to hash that up and not really
Speaker 1: and the but you're right, it could it could well
Speaker 1: be that the whole point of that thing was just
Speaker 1: to wait until we started popping our rockets and then
Speaker 1: his job is done. Now would just notifies the home
Speaker 1: that we've achieved a level of technological advancement to where
Speaker 1: we can actually put things in orbit, and then it's
Speaker 1: it tells home and then Dodge either runs away or
Speaker 1: as far as this retro doesn't jump, plunges into our
Speaker 1: atmosphere and burns up the dormant. Who knows. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could have been what burned up in the atmosphere
Speaker 1: over Russia at the other Yeah, yeah, last year. You
Speaker 1: don't know it was really right, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I think it would have done the job earlier than that.
Speaker 1: But because we know it would, it would have detected
Speaker 1: all the radar waves, so it used to track things
Speaker 1: in orbit. But it might have waited long enough to
Speaker 1: make sure we didn't destroy ourselves. How's it going to
Speaker 1: stop us from destroying her? So wait to make sure
Speaker 1: we didn't before reporting home. We still could, We still
Speaker 1: could easily. Yeah, but well, as part as extraterrestrial origins,
Speaker 1: it actually could. And this is entirely credible. It could
Speaker 1: be extraterrestrial because extraterrestrial is just anything that's not on
Speaker 1: planet Earth and not of planet Earth. So imagine it's
Speaker 1: just a small asteroid or a meteor or something like
Speaker 1: meteoroid that just happened to, like, you know, come along
Speaker 1: and get caught for a while in orbit around that's
Speaker 1: got lassoed in the orbit around our planet, and you're
Speaker 1: highly irregular orbit. You would expect that it's something that
Speaker 1: like nabbed things don't just naturally go into perfect orbits. No,
Speaker 1: they don't. They're not going to go in a certain
Speaker 1: They're gonna go into a very erratic orbit like this one.
Speaker 1: And so it's entirely possible there's something came along and
Speaker 1: wound up an orbit around us for a while, and
Speaker 1: then just eventually it's orbit deteriorated and it plunged into
Speaker 1: our atmosphere and finally got a sling shot in a way,
Speaker 1: that's possible too. That sounds like this thing was in
Speaker 1: a fairly stable orbit from the way people are talking
Speaker 1: about it. The way people are talking about I think
Speaker 1: is an apt description makes it hard saying that that's
Speaker 1: a concrete fact. So, but it sounds like it was
Speaker 1: a stable laun term more. But and then it's not
Speaker 1: going to suddenly slingshot itself away, but it will eventually
Speaker 1: probably the sortab will decay and they'll go into the atmosphere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it could really be extra extra tre it could
Speaker 1: just be a bit of space debree, you're right, space rock. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Let's then. Now let's move into the next theory. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make some people mad, and I'm okay with that
Speaker 1: when I say that the next theory is that it
Speaker 1: was made up for fun or to stir people up.
Speaker 1: And bear with me. Is I go through this because
Speaker 1: I've you two know, but our listeners don't know where
Speaker 1: I'm heading with this in the images that I've shown you.
Speaker 1: For the reason why, because believe it or not, people
Speaker 1: do go on the Internet and they make things up
Speaker 1: or on a more mundane scale, they totally misinterpret something
Speaker 1: and then they shouted to everybody they know, and then
Speaker 1: that gets repeated as well. We do that all the time.
Speaker 1: There's an example I've seen it. There's an image out
Speaker 1: there that I've seen that is supposedly from Apollo ten
Speaker 1: showing the Black Night satellites, and I wasted so much
Speaker 1: time going through the Apollo ten photos and not finding it,
Speaker 1: and then I started just going through all of the
Speaker 1: photos that were available from NASA, and lo and behold,
Speaker 1: I actually found the photo itself in its raw format. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got but has a NASA has a ton of photographs.
Speaker 1: I know. I couldn't believe I found it. I couldn't
Speaker 1: believe I found it. But here's the thing. I then
Speaker 1: wasted even more time brewing around with that image in
Speaker 1: photos shot because here's the thing. The website that I
Speaker 1: have seen this on. There's a couple of them say,
Speaker 1: look at this alien spacecraft. That is the Black Knights
Speaker 1: satellite that was found in this Apollo ten image. The
Speaker 1: image has no date, it has no location that it
Speaker 1: was shot from. The image is not good quality, And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk through some of these facts because these
Speaker 1: are the things that make our jobs so hard. So
Speaker 1: when I find a very blatant one, I have to
Speaker 1: call it out so people can kind of think what's
Speaker 1: going on when they're seeing some of this. So the
Speaker 1: exposure is really bad. But there's also stuff all over
Speaker 1: this image's water spots and I found hairs on it,
Speaker 1: which tell me that it was a print and not
Speaker 1: a negative that was scanned in. And you got this
Speaker 1: off the NASA website or something else's website. Huge three
Speaker 1: D p I res huge image. It was, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like a hundred eggs or something. It was god
Speaker 1: awful huge. But if it had been scanned in from
Speaker 1: a negative, a hair would have been gigantic, but that
Speaker 1: wasn't the case. They were really small on the image,
Speaker 1: which means it has to be a print. And the
Speaker 1: same thing with the water spots negative even on a
Speaker 1: large format negative, which I haven't heard of those being
Speaker 1: used in those early programs. That would be a really
Speaker 1: really fine hair to be picked up like this. It
Speaker 1: just it looks like cat hair. But when I put
Speaker 1: it in Photoshop and I adjusted it multiple times in
Speaker 1: multiple ways to correct the exposure so that the background,
Speaker 1: which is space, is the right color, which is black,
Speaker 1: this thing disappears. So I'm pretty positive that this thing
Speaker 1: was dust or more likely lint or something. Plus, never
Speaker 1: mind the fact that this photo it hadn't been it
Speaker 1: can somewhere between the Earth and the Moon. For the
Speaker 1: size of the Earth and the photograph, they must have
Speaker 1: been at least a third of the way to the Moon. Yeahs,
Speaker 1: which means that probably as big as that thing was,
Speaker 1: it should have crashed and killed us all or unleashed
Speaker 1: the alien horde. Yeah, I mean it would have been.
Speaker 1: And obviously it would have been enormous to be a
Speaker 1: scale it wasn't that photograph would be. It would have
Speaker 1: been an altitude of thousands of miles, not just and
Speaker 1: so yeah, the whole thing is just absurd. So what
Speaker 1: I want people to do is I want them to
Speaker 1: keep this in mind and keep an objective view on this,
Speaker 1: so that when they're looking at it and they kind
Speaker 1: of pull the details out and not just take the
Speaker 1: bait and and just swallow it all at once, but
Speaker 1: really trying to figure out what you're looking at, which
Speaker 1: I told you'd have to be pretty damn guillable to
Speaker 1: look at that photograph and think it has anything to
Speaker 1: do with the Black Knight satellite. Well, if you know,
Speaker 1: in the original image that I showed you guys, looks
Speaker 1: kind of metallic space shippy because it's zoomed and it's
Speaker 1: fuzz and I can see how somebody without taking context
Speaker 1: into it, would be like, WHOA, what the heck is that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in the original photo, if if
Speaker 1: you're just looking at within the confines of a website
Speaker 1: or something like that, you're not going to see the hair.
Speaker 1: You're not going to see all of the other stuff there.
Speaker 1: It's all cropped and it does you know. I've seen
Speaker 1: that picture before and it's hard to kind of step
Speaker 1: away from that and say, oh, there, there could totally
Speaker 1: be something else going on there. It's easy to take
Speaker 1: it as face value, and we do that a lot.
Speaker 1: Next theory on the docket, what's that this is really
Speaker 1: just a bunch of stories that have been jammed together
Speaker 1: with hot glue to make it the Black Knight satellite.
Speaker 1: Do you do you get why I make the hot
Speaker 1: glue reference. Do you remember when you were a kid
Speaker 1: and you were an art class and you would hot
Speaker 1: glue stuff together and it would just come out to
Speaker 1: be this gnarly gross mass of like stuff. Did you
Speaker 1: ever do that? Because I as an artist. I'm an
Speaker 1: artist too, but I was still a kid. Now class
Speaker 1: we use wealthing equipment. No, I was just thinking. I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out if you were talking about
Speaker 1: a bunch of different stories jammed together or a bunch
Speaker 1: of different things jammed together like in that episode of Futuruma.
Speaker 1: Oh no, this is this is not not the future
Speaker 1: a bunch of stories jammed together. Which I know that
Speaker 1: the pair of you do this, and we've just been
Speaker 1: kind of harping on. This is when we start looking
Speaker 1: at these things, each individual piece in context, Suddenly it
Speaker 1: becomes much easier to see what's going on. And what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do is we've already walked through this entire story.
Speaker 1: We're now going to walk through a number of pieces
Speaker 1: of the story in sequence again, kind of shine some
Speaker 1: light on some things that were going on. Sounds good,
Speaker 1: There was a lot of that stuff. Yeah, well, let's
Speaker 1: let's start with Nikola Tesla because he's where we started
Speaker 1: in the beginning. Today, we do know that Tesla us
Speaker 1: picking up a repeating signal, but what he was picking
Speaker 1: up was a pulsar. We didn't know about pulsars in
Speaker 1: We didn't really figure out what they were officially or
Speaker 1: or classify them until nineteen. Pulsars put out radio waves
Speaker 1: in a very specific pattern that's repeating. He didn't know that,
Speaker 1: so he just he took his best guests. I totally
Speaker 1: understand that. I don't fault Tesla for that, but that's
Speaker 1: what that was, so I can't say that's the Black
Speaker 1: Knight satellite. We'll move forward to l D ease. We
Speaker 1: don't really know exactly what ld s are today, but
Speaker 1: there's a there's over a dozen theories out there, but
Speaker 1: basically what we think is going on is that a
Speaker 1: couple of the theories are is that it's possible that
Speaker 1: radio waves are being picked up and caught in Aurora
Speaker 1: activity cau is by solar storms, which is holding onto
Speaker 1: them before they get spun down Earth. There was just
Speaker 1: a really interesting article released about Aurora energy and how
Speaker 1: it affects the Earth. Who will post it on Facebook eventually,
Speaker 1: but just saying, like literally today there was a new
Speaker 1: very interesting Let's see what do we got. The next
Speaker 1: one up is it's reflections in the ionosphere that are
Speaker 1: caused by the magnet sphere. Yeah, like radio skipping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's radio skipping, is exactly what it is. And and
Speaker 1: actually the thing about the reflection the radio skipping is
Speaker 1: it's actually refraction. It's actually not things not bouncing off
Speaker 1: the atosphere. And I talked about the snailb lost boilery
Speaker 1: lbl Um is that they are actually refracted debt back
Speaker 1: downward by the ionosphere. And a similar phenomenon happens under
Speaker 1: the ocean submarine. Somebody's sonar as a PASTI sonars will
Speaker 1: pick up the same signal at two different times because
Speaker 1: they travel basically different pathways to get to you. You're
Speaker 1: listening with your with your hydrophone, and you hear the
Speaker 1: same noise twice because it goes it takes two different
Speaker 1: paths to get there. It's being refracted up and down
Speaker 1: one way, bouncing off the bottom of the ocean and
Speaker 1: the top of the ocean. Essentially, it's a similar kind
Speaker 1: of thing like a sound layer is a similar kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Is what the ionosphere does, and that is
Speaker 1: and that is it will bounce off the bottom of
Speaker 1: the ocean, then it goes up to a sound to
Speaker 1: like a layer where they say a sharp difference in temperature,
Speaker 1: and there are temperature gradients like that in the ocean.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't it it's some people look at it
Speaker 1: is bouncing up, but really what happens is it goes
Speaker 1: up into that and it's refracted bent back downwards, so
Speaker 1: it's refracted, not really reflected. And no, no, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not correcting you. What I was saying is that what
Speaker 1: i'd say is that what the experience that that what
Speaker 1: what the Navy's experienced with sonar is a similar thing
Speaker 1: where where something will follow two different tracks to get
Speaker 1: to the same place and it gets there at different times.
Speaker 1: The noise does it's the same thing can happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not. That's not really unexplainable. No, and and
Speaker 1: and yeah it's it's but it's weird. But here here's
Speaker 1: the last one that we've got for l D ease,
Speaker 1: which is it maybe that the radio signals are getting
Speaker 1: trapped between ionized layers in the atmosphere, because that we
Speaker 1: do know that happens. There's ionization up there and it's
Speaker 1: kind of bouncing around and then it quote unquote falls
Speaker 1: out a hole or bounces out a hole it's in
Speaker 1: the bottom. Now it's quite as likely that some of
Speaker 1: them they get trapped in there, are bouncing out of
Speaker 1: holes in the top and shooting into space. But once
Speaker 1: we're picking up or falling out of the bottom, that's
Speaker 1: what's causing the delays. They're skipping around until they finally
Speaker 1: find a hole to to bounce out of. That. The
Speaker 1: other thing about the l D ease is actually a
Speaker 1: lot of this is that if it's an ALIAS satellite,
Speaker 1: then why is it messing around with this whole l
Speaker 1: D crap. It's either gonna be totally its stealth mode
Speaker 1: or it's gonna be sending us direct transmiss and saying, hey, there,
Speaker 1: how's it going, you know, Garfield, and come see me
Speaker 1: kind because we really want to eat you. Yeah, our
Speaker 1: English isn't good yet. Yeah we didn't mean we didn't
Speaker 1: mean that at all, but yeah, and so I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be doing weird stuff
Speaker 1: like like re broadcasting our radio ways to us. That's
Speaker 1: I will, I'll get on board with that. Let's move forward.
Speaker 1: Remember we talked about the newspaper reporting of the two
Speaker 1: satellites that were in a polar orbit. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: turns out that's not real reporting. It's a couple of
Speaker 1: reporters and a couple of papers evidently ripping off the
Speaker 1: Dutch jacket of a UFO book. Oh, some guy was
Speaker 1: trying to sell his book about UFOs and they were
Speaker 1: having a little fun and they took some stuff directly
Speaker 1: out of it and published it and people went picked
Speaker 1: it up and believed it. And really it was just
Speaker 1: kind of a joke. I think it was an inside
Speaker 1: joke that gained more life than they ever thought it would.
Speaker 1: It was the day was April one, It was April first.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's what's going on there. Let's move
Speaker 1: forward again. We're gonna talk about nineteen sixty and what
Speaker 1: the U. S. Air Force or the U S and
Speaker 1: the U S government found. Here's what's going on in
Speaker 1: nineteen six. Do you remember there was that unknown dark
Speaker 1: tumbling object that was picked up, and everybody kind of
Speaker 1: wigged out because we're in Cold War times. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't at the time. So we're talking ninth late
Speaker 1: fifty nine, all of sixty part of sixty one. We're
Speaker 1: putting rockets up and it's part of the Discoverer program
Speaker 1: where the Discover program is going to put satellites out
Speaker 1: so that we can figure out what's in space, what's
Speaker 1: on Earth. We're gonna figure out all this stuff. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's figured it out already, right, that we did.
Speaker 1: Space is done. But it's not a mystery at all.
Speaker 1: It turns out the CIA um I think it was
Speaker 1: through the Freedom of Information Act because it was no
Speaker 1: longer classified. We found out the CIA was involved in
Speaker 1: the Discovery program and they were putting up is it
Speaker 1: Corona Corona satellites And it sounds like, Joe, you you
Speaker 1: actually have a pretty good idea of what the Corona
Speaker 1: satellites were or did you just kind of gone through them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Corona was really the earliest spy satellite at least
Speaker 1: that we had. And what Corona did is said it
Speaker 1: would be in a polar orbit, as we talked about before,
Speaker 1: for surveying and spying polar lower low altitude orbits to
Speaker 1: the best. And it had a number of high definitions,
Speaker 1: like really big cameras in it that took a lot
Speaker 1: of photographs and then thousand per yeah, just it would
Speaker 1: just use up as an entire roll, and then the
Speaker 1: camera would be ejected by the satellite and it would
Speaker 1: fall into the atmosphere and it would would deploy a
Speaker 1: parachute and then this this airplane would come along and
Speaker 1: snag it in midair. And it was really an elaborate operation.
Speaker 1: And luckily these days we've we've got electronic we can
Speaker 1: just broadcast digital images. Back yeah, we didn't have that.
Speaker 1: Back in those days. We didn't have digital imaging. So
Speaker 1: they actually had to take film and ejected and imagine
Speaker 1: how beautifully time that had to be. That plane had
Speaker 1: to be just in the perfect right spot. They lost
Speaker 1: a number of those satellites when they the bucket, they
Speaker 1: called it the bucket when it dropped its bucket. They
Speaker 1: lost a number of buckets in the first one that
Speaker 1: they lost eventually was found in Venezuela, and once it
Speaker 1: was found, they realized that what they needed to do
Speaker 1: was stop stenciling top secret on it. Yeah, they put
Speaker 1: they put some reward information in twenty two languages all
Speaker 1: over it so people would turn it in. That is
Speaker 1: the most amazing. Yeah, don't look at this tough secret,
Speaker 1: don't touch it. Yeah. Well, so here's the thing is
Speaker 1: that so we've we've talked about the Corona program. Well,
Speaker 1: what happened is Discover eight. There evidently was some kind
Speaker 1: of malfunction and when it went to drop its bucket,
Speaker 1: it's orbit was messed up and a big chunk of
Speaker 1: it came off in an unexpected way and it tumbled
Speaker 1: around the Earth. Gosh, when was it it? Uh? It
Speaker 1: came back and it re entered the atmosphere in March
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty. And they're pretty sure the bucket came
Speaker 1: back down or probably around that time, because it didn't
Speaker 1: dump the bucket as it was intended. But that was
Speaker 1: in a polar orbit and would have been in an
Speaker 1: erratic orbit because it was screwed up. So it's pretty
Speaker 1: positive that that's what was being picked up. Because the
Speaker 1: CIA isn't gonna tell the U s A Force what
Speaker 1: they've got up there because it's so secret, they're not
Speaker 1: gonna just spill. Oh sorry, ted this is what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're going to do that, particularly if it involves admitting
Speaker 1: a huge mistake, especially a giant program. Because I think
Speaker 1: there was fifteen or no, there was more than fifteen.
Speaker 1: There was I can't remember how many of those. It's
Speaker 1: there was lots and lots of those cameras, and they
Speaker 1: they evolved quite quickly, but they put a lot of
Speaker 1: those up there, and at a cold war time, that
Speaker 1: would have probably caused some kind of clash. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've already had the the whole Bay of Pigs thing
Speaker 1: happened right around it wasn't the Bay of Pigs nine
Speaker 1: sixty um, that was six. It was pretty close on
Speaker 1: the heels this this potential nuclear holocausts between two countries.
Speaker 1: So they didn't want to spill the beans and they
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to be doing this. And also it is
Speaker 1: again you know, you're not about to be like, oh, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: we have this classified program and we kind of messed
Speaker 1: it up and lost a half of something that cost
Speaker 1: more than you know, we've ever thought of spending anything
Speaker 1: on anything. You know, it's just you don't do that.
Speaker 1: You don't say that, you don't say that at all.
Speaker 1: Now you want to keep quiet about it, but just uh,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of a correction. I thought that
Speaker 1: what happened with that particular launch, it wasn't so much
Speaker 1: the bucket dropping dropping wrongly, but it was that on launch,
Speaker 1: the rocket goes up and then eventually a couple of
Speaker 1: case things pop off and the satellite is released. And
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought that one of those casings, for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, like wound up in orbit instead
Speaker 1: of going back into the atmosphere and burning up. I've
Speaker 1: seen that as well, and that and that was that
Speaker 1: that could would be. But I also know that there
Speaker 1: was an issue with the satellite itself and the bucket
Speaker 1: didn't come down right as well. So I don't know
Speaker 1: which it is. It could have been the casing, It
Speaker 1: could have been the bucket, it could have been the
Speaker 1: Corona satellite. The case thing, I think would would be
Speaker 1: a more likely candidate because it would have a much
Speaker 1: bigger radar signature. Um yeah, but yeah, certainly, Spice satellites
Speaker 1: would come a long ways. They're much sneakier, much sneakier,
Speaker 1: much better. You don't buckets. Let's move to the next.
Speaker 1: One of the next things we talked about which is
Speaker 1: Gordon Cooper. Remember that Gordon Cooper saw the green glowing
Speaker 1: thing at Loop number fifteen around the globe. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: has adamant He adamantly denied that ever ever happened. Well,
Speaker 1: of course he's denying it. He actually clearly got to
Speaker 1: He actually provided transcripts, his own transcripts from his end
Speaker 1: to prove that he didn't. Actually, I never said any
Speaker 1: of that I know, And so all those people in
Speaker 1: mission control they never never heard him say that. Even
Speaker 1: so I'm guessing they never actually saw it either. We're
Speaker 1: gonna then go to the nineties seventies when we had
Speaker 1: Duck Duncan Lunin. I almost called him Ducan Lunin, which
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. Duncan Lunin. He never actually said
Speaker 1: that the transmissions that he was looking at came from
Speaker 1: the Black Knight satellite. He also seems to believe that
Speaker 1: they came from two points in space, one that was
Speaker 1: sixty degrees ahead and one that was sixty degrees behind
Speaker 1: the moon the course of the moon. And he actually
Speaker 1: later on he acknowledged that he made some major mistakes
Speaker 1: and what he came up with was wrong, and he
Speaker 1: recounted the whole thing he renounced the retracted Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was like, I was wrong. Plus I don't know what
Speaker 1: I was smoking, but that was bad. Plus I believe
Speaker 1: Duncan Lunin wasn't actually a scientist. Wasn't he actually a
Speaker 1: science fiction writer? Bad was part of what he did,
Speaker 1: I believe. Yes. And the last one in the story
Speaker 1: that we talked about, which was the Endeavor photos. The
Speaker 1: Space Shuttle would always fly in a semi equatorial orbit,
Speaker 1: as does the Ice the International Space Station. Yeah that thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if there is an object moving in a polar orbit,
Speaker 1: it would have gone by the Space Shuttle. That would
Speaker 1: have been zip eight to twenty thousand miles per hour,
Speaker 1: which would be really hard to get all of those
Speaker 1: really awesome high resolution photos. Oh, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: That's I know, it's ridiculous. And that's let's space at
Speaker 1: the combined speed of the two because don't forget, they're
Speaker 1: also broken. They're rocketing along. They see how many sunrises
Speaker 1: do they see in a day? Do you remember the number?
Speaker 1: I don't remember. Something like that. Some crazy It would
Speaker 1: be fun. I'd love to go up there. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I just wish that I could afford the trip. I
Speaker 1: don't have that kind of money unless this podcast suddenly
Speaker 1: becomes a cash cow. Yeah. So, and also, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's pretty There's all these pictures that
Speaker 1: they took of this object, which you can't take when
Speaker 1: you're both moving, and if you had a really high
Speaker 1: speed camera you could get maybe one shot, but they
Speaker 1: took a whole bunch of shot. It took a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of shots. Here's what's going on, though, is the
Speaker 1: mission logs and stuff. Turns out that during an e
Speaker 1: v A, what does e v A stand for, it's
Speaker 1: it's like extra extra vehicular activity activity. Yeah, they're outside
Speaker 1: of the space. They went outside the space in a
Speaker 1: space suit. The claiman stern of it. They floated around,
Speaker 1: they floated around, they did some stuff. Well, they accidentally
Speaker 1: knocked loose a thermal blanket and it flew away from
Speaker 1: the space show. I'm guessing it was in the cargo compartment.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it tore loose, but it did.
Speaker 1: Those things are silver on one side and black on
Speaker 1: the other, and they're basically a giant chunk of insulated blankets.
Speaker 1: So if you ever think of the insulation in your house,
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen that and we had space blankets
Speaker 1: in our like in our Earth Quick survival kits. You
Speaker 1: know they come in like a little path that's fits
Speaker 1: in your pocket, something like that. Well it's a bulkier
Speaker 1: version of that. But it broke loose and it drifted away.
Speaker 1: It's dark on one side, silver on the other. Or
Speaker 1: got knocked loose. Sorry, I'm just I'm checking my head
Speaker 1: because I'm just thinking about how easy it is to
Speaker 1: just knock something loose into space like a human. Well
Speaker 1: it happened to Tim Robbins. Don't stop, just stop, okay, Uh,
Speaker 1: Well it was the blanket was crumpled and folded and
Speaker 1: it looked odd and it had some funny shapes as
Speaker 1: it drifted away. But if we're gonna have to link
Speaker 1: to this photo. But this is why I love the
Speaker 1: Internet is somebody actually took the time to take all
Speaker 1: of those photos, match up the cloud patterns and scale
Speaker 1: them appropriately, and you can actually see this thing kind
Speaker 1: of twisting and tumbling in space. And the only show,
Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier, one image cropped really close,
Speaker 1: and that one image does, in fairness look hole. It
Speaker 1: looks very much like it could have been a space Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: the right angle and the shiny bits are exactly where
Speaker 1: you'd wanted. Yeah, I mean, but but when you see
Speaker 1: this where they're all put together, not to make a
Speaker 1: bad joke, but it it takes the wind at an
Speaker 1: alien ships sail. I know that was terrible joke. I'm sorry. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really cannot make a joke in the last six months.
Speaker 1: It's sad. Yeah, I gotta get I gotta get joke
Speaker 1: act to me. Um. Okay, well, let's let's move forward.
Speaker 1: We're going to go to the last bit here, which
Speaker 1: is not really a theory, but it is a bit
Speaker 1: of an explanation of where maybe the name came from.
Speaker 1: The What Night. Didn't you ever see The Holy Grail? Yeah?
Speaker 1: My godnets classic? Remember that? Okay, Well, obviously it's British
Speaker 1: because Joe's making the Monty Python joke. Between nineteen fifty
Speaker 1: eight to nineteen sixty five, the Brits were launching and
Speaker 1: testing uh rockets and it was under the name the
Speaker 1: Black Night. The whole thing was initially a ballistic missile
Speaker 1: program so they could throw nukes it like I'm not
Speaker 1: quite dead yet. Yeah, yeah, they were gonna they were
Speaker 1: gonna throw nukes at the Soviet Union. But of course
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union the US quickly outpaces um. They have
Speaker 1: much better rocket technology. So what what they do is
Speaker 1: they just decided to salvage this program and it was
Speaker 1: using the Blue Streak missile was the actual missile that
Speaker 1: it was using, but they were gonna go ahead and
Speaker 1: use it to try hard to figure out how to
Speaker 1: get into space. I guess this next part is because
Speaker 1: they were trying to save money. They they farmed out
Speaker 1: different bits of it to different countries, to France and
Speaker 1: Germany and all these guys, and they did several launches,
Speaker 1: and every one of the launches, it appears, failed because
Speaker 1: like they had bad components on every every one of
Speaker 1: them from different places. It wasn't like the Germans were
Speaker 1: always screwing it up or the French were always screwing up.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, well they got it right, but
Speaker 1: you got it wrong this time. And so the whole
Speaker 1: thing was kind of a fiasco. It was. It got
Speaker 1: retired in I want to say before nineteen seventy they
Speaker 1: quit doing it because the whole thing was just a
Speaker 1: waste of money and not quite bad yet. Yes, well
Speaker 1: it is now, yeah, yeah, they still still got something
Speaker 1: about still has a bit of a bit of a
Speaker 1: space program that though that that's kind of the end
Speaker 1: of what I've got here for the Black Night. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on record and saying I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that there isn't something that is orbiting the Earth that
Speaker 1: we didn't put there, that is of an intelligent origin
Speaker 1: that we haven't figured out. I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: that because I can't say that. But what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say is that a lot of things that have been
Speaker 1: tacked onto this story shouldn't have been tacked on because
Speaker 1: they're they're not real. But that really part of the story.
Speaker 1: That's just kind of the fun of the whole thing. Though,
Speaker 1: well it's the fun of the whole thing until there's
Speaker 1: seven hundred different things that have been the big glued
Speaker 1: to it this podcast, it is, indeed, And so that's
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. I I think I do think that
Speaker 1: there may have been something up there that we didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was, whether it's still there or not,
Speaker 1: but it's not this giant, giant thing that the Black
Speaker 1: Knight satellite story has grown to be in my opinion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just you know, probably like I was saying, naturally occurring,
Speaker 1: just a meteoroid that was captured for a while before
Speaker 1: burning up on our atmosphere, or the real left over
Speaker 1: from our you know, from our space program, but that's
Speaker 1: where one of our bad spice had the rocket, any
Speaker 1: number of things, but not you know, an alien probe
Speaker 1: or anything. Probably I don't think so, But I know
Speaker 1: if you had a doubt in that, because actually, you know,
Speaker 1: probably they would have been here by now. After surveying
Speaker 1: the planet and everything, and I'm figuring out there's lots
Speaker 1: of edible human beings down here, they would have been
Speaker 1: been here. Well, I think I know I've talked to
Speaker 1: you two about this, but I don't know if any
Speaker 1: of our listeners have. Is it always that makes me
Speaker 1: think is there's this book out there called Infected by
Speaker 1: a guy named Scott Sigler, and one of the things
Speaker 1: is that there's this probe circling the Earth that's dropping
Speaker 1: microbe spore things that are doing weird thing to people
Speaker 1: to try and you know, get its race going again.
Speaker 1: But that's what I would think about it, is like,
Speaker 1: if it's been there that long and it figures out
Speaker 1: we're here, and hey, there's yummy humans with the squashy inside.
Speaker 1: Let's do that. But none of that has happened that
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to do that. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: you don't know. Other I don't they might have snagged
Speaker 1: some people, you know. I mean, actually, you know, if
Speaker 1: you if you think of human beings as a delicacy,
Speaker 1: and then obviously a smart thing to do is just
Speaker 1: to come down here and nab enough reading pairs to
Speaker 1: take back to your home world that you can just
Speaker 1: you know, just breed a whole lot of herds of
Speaker 1: humans that you can you know that you can just
Speaker 1: turn the stakes. I mean, I was just going with
Speaker 1: the whole spore thing. I mean, there's nothing to say
Speaker 1: that the course that our revolution has taken has been
Speaker 1: the natural course that our evolution would have taken had
Speaker 1: we not been exposed to those spores. You don't know
Speaker 1: both of them. Although I do like Joe's theory a
Speaker 1: little bit better, because you guys don't like the idea.
Speaker 1: You don't like the idea of benevolent aliens like aliens.
Speaker 1: They're no, no, no, I want the I want the
Speaker 1: Joe cattle line. You know, there's there's what is o
Speaker 1: Macron Percy I eight and they've they've got a whole
Speaker 1: host of clones of Joe that are just walking around
Speaker 1: talking about submarines before they get cut up into cuts
Speaker 1: how our human horn har Yeah, they ain't gonna take
Speaker 1: me alive, but before they walk into the human chopper. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think this one's lad to rest. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that Yeah, it's uh, not alien. It's it's
Speaker 1: not as as at least it's not as it is
Speaker 1: led to be. It's sad ye. By the way, I
Speaker 1: was speaking back back to the whole thing about about aliens.
Speaker 1: I really really want the aliens that we eventually meet
Speaker 1: if we do, to be good and to be benevolent.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's possible, but I don't eat us. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I think that given given the fact that evolution applies,
Speaker 1: dartwinness of applies on all worlds, they're going to be
Speaker 1: aggressive and nasty and uh and they're probably gonna want
Speaker 1: what we have. We're probably gonna end up being space hillbillies.
Speaker 1: That's really what it's gonna boil down. Yeah, but we're wait,
Speaker 1: we're going after nob track. So let's let's give our
Speaker 1: our our final bit of important information here, which is
Speaker 1: our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Of course,
Speaker 1: there you're gonna find the episode. In all of our
Speaker 1: episodes that we've done on any story in the past,
Speaker 1: you will find our research links to this particular one.
Speaker 1: You can leave a comment on the website. You can
Speaker 1: download the episode on the website. Most people aren't doing that. Instead,
Speaker 1: most people are probably going iTunes. If you're on iTunes Blue,
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Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook because we have the
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Speaker 1: the Black Knight satellite and you want to talk to us,
Speaker 1: stop using those silly l d s and just send
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Speaker 1: We're always there. Will reply to everybody, maybe not within
Speaker 1: the first day, but we get to all of our emails,
Speaker 1: and I think that's just about all the details we
Speaker 1: need to share with folks. All Right, we're going to
Speaker 1: close this one up. Thanks, ladies and gentlemen. It's been
Speaker 1: fun and we will talk to you next week Bye Guys, Aliens,