WEBVTT - Ep. 51: Bear Grease [Render] - Mustaches, Bear Collars, and Wild Turkey Biologist, Jeremy Wood

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production

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<v Speaker 1>of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,

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<v Speaker 1>where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the

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<v Speaker 1>scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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<v Speaker 1>HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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<v Speaker 1>that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of big mustaches, if you notice in this room

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<v Speaker 1>somebody is missing a mustache, and I think we should

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<v Speaker 1>do something about that. You get to take your pick,

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<v Speaker 1>so uh yeah, Misty. Misty is usually and today the

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<v Speaker 1>only one in the room without a mustache. If you

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<v Speaker 1>would who would make you feel better? If you would

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<v Speaker 1>make it make you feel better. I've purchased months ago

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<v Speaker 1>to make you feel welcome, and so you should feel

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<v Speaker 1>So there's the food Man Chew, the Dolly, the Disco Brave,

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<v Speaker 1>the lawn art con artist Roland Rowly, Rich Uncle Nickel bags. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Nickel bags. I'm not sure that food man Chew. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think I have a long enough chin. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think you looked good in a number of those. So

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<v Speaker 1>you get to take your pick. So this is a gift,

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<v Speaker 1>so that I yeah, all right, you know I've always

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<v Speaker 1>been kind of grateful to to not have ancestors. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the Beargrease Render Podcast. We have we have a

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<v Speaker 1>very special guest today for real, like a real special guest.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we introduced him, I'm going to Uh, I

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<v Speaker 1>got a few things I want to show you, guys. Okay, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>Missy's picking out her mustache. So Josh has bought her.

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<v Speaker 1>Josh went to like a Dollar General or something and

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<v Speaker 1>online retailer which we will is there official? Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>Misty's Uh, Misty's putting on her her stash so she'll

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<v Speaker 1>feel see. I feel like you've made an excellent choice here. Okay, good, yeah, now, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>this is gonna be pure chaos. Oh yeah, you look.

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<v Speaker 1>You look amazing. You've never looked better. Misty as her

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<v Speaker 1>as her husband. This is approved for this setting you

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<v Speaker 1>feel about it might be like a waxing deal, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like the ladies do where they rip it off. That

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<v Speaker 1>would be awesome. That would be awesome. So I've got

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<v Speaker 1>a few things I'd like to I'd like to share

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<v Speaker 1>with you before I introduce our guests. Now, guests, you

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<v Speaker 1>feel free to chime in at any time. They're just

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<v Speaker 1>if they hear your voice, they'll they'll just wonder who

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<v Speaker 1>you are. I was out on the phone today. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you know much about air heads, jeremy little bit stone points?

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<v Speaker 1>I was. I was out today talking on the phone,

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<v Speaker 1>walking through the mule pasture, and any time we get

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<v Speaker 1>a big rain, I'm telling you, any time we get

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<v Speaker 1>a big rain, if you want to walk out there,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll find flint points. I found actually found two. But

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<v Speaker 1>this is a broken it's it's half a point. And

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<v Speaker 1>I really believe that was probably an actual erahead. Most

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<v Speaker 1>of the points you find that are slightly bigger are

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<v Speaker 1>adladdle or spirit points. Look good, it's really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>take you serious. This is uh so, this is what

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<v Speaker 1>what I have is the is the half and the

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<v Speaker 1>two corner notches. But that's pretty that's a that's a

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<v Speaker 1>really nice yeah. And man, I'll tell you what. When

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<v Speaker 1>I saw this, you know what I did. I picked

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<v Speaker 1>it up and took it back to my office with me. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of on a little bit of a tangent

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<v Speaker 1>about people saying don't pick up stone points if you're

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<v Speaker 1>on public land. You can't. It's a law. And that's like,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't pick it up. That's okay. If you're on

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<v Speaker 1>private land or can cannot, cannot pick up artifacts or

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<v Speaker 1>really anything off of private on publicly, that's okay. But

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<v Speaker 1>I've had some kind of people say that you shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>pick up a stone point, and I I just it

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<v Speaker 1>just doesn't make any sense to me, because if this were,

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<v Speaker 1>if this were the fulsome site, if like, if people,

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<v Speaker 1>if archaeologists here that I'm finding stone points in my

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<v Speaker 1>front yard and they want to come to my house

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<v Speaker 1>and do a full excavation, come on, man, we'll make coffee.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll have you on the podcast. Like, if y'all want

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<v Speaker 1>to do an archaeological dig in my front yard, you're

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to. I don't think that's gonna happen because there's

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<v Speaker 1>about thirty thousand other places that are more likely for

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<v Speaker 1>this to happen. Are you with me? I'm totally with you,

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't see the what would be the point

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<v Speaker 1>of leaving what would be the point of leaving it there? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>so the only point, and I agree with this, is

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<v Speaker 1>that by taking something out of you know, they call

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<v Speaker 1>it n C two when it's found at a point

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<v Speaker 1>or artifact found just like it lays there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of value inside of that for archaeologist. If you mess

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<v Speaker 1>around with it, then a lot of the story is lost.

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<v Speaker 1>But if that stone point is sitting on the surface

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<v Speaker 1>and the next rain that's going to be in the creek,

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what's the point of right and the legality of it? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>if I was on somebody else's land and I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have express permission to take a stone point, I wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>In every stone point I've ever found on someone else's land,

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<v Speaker 1>I have gone and asked them if I could keep it,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is the truth. Um. But anyway, I have

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<v Speaker 1>quite the collection up here, Jeremy of stone points. Most

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<v Speaker 1>of them came from my front yard down here. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you feel like there's an inordinate number of stone points

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<v Speaker 1>in that field? I think there's a couple of factors

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<v Speaker 1>right here that are important. There's a big year round

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<v Speaker 1>spring about a hundred yards from right here where we sit. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also it's the intersection of two creeks on a

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<v Speaker 1>little low spot down here. I think this valley had

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<v Speaker 1>a fair bit of Native American camping activity. Um So,

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<v Speaker 1>just the fact that it's a valley probably means that

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<v Speaker 1>it had some maybe a little bit more than normal.

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<v Speaker 1>But like the next valley over, I mean, there's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>special about this one. Your neighbor found a pretty good

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<v Speaker 1>sized stump point. Did he show you that which one? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes he did? Yeah? Far away from here? Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>not far away from here he found note he founded

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<v Speaker 1>the place. He didn't found it back in here. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But no, I feel like the most respectful thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I could do for the human that made that was

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<v Speaker 1>to pick that up and ponder about it. Yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>and show it to people. Yeah. So I just what

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<v Speaker 1>do you think, Misty? Well, I think sometimes Misty thinks

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<v Speaker 1>about pick fights. I mean, I just think I don't

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<v Speaker 1>I don't love that when he gets all snippy like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a soapbox, and everybody have their soapbox. He's got

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<v Speaker 1>more than one. You know, everyone's entitled there as in

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<v Speaker 1>you know, anybody can start a podcast. I did get

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<v Speaker 1>on I did get onto my daughter the other day

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<v Speaker 1>about being opinionated. Okay, we'll move on past. And I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to say I I deeply respect the archaeological community,

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<v Speaker 1>and I do not intend to disturb any kind of

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<v Speaker 1>major sites. But I mean, like I put up stone

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<v Speaker 1>points and people pick on me for picking it up,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, let me just say this. I think

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<v Speaker 1>one of the Jeremy o our guest here has been

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<v Speaker 1>has been thrust into I think one of the cool

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<v Speaker 1>things that Clay does with those points. Though. I will

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<v Speaker 1>just say this, since our kids were little, he would

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<v Speaker 1>like show him to him and he would be he

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<v Speaker 1>would tell him and the last guy that you're laughing

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm on my stage. It's going to be difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>Also it is um but he said he would always

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<v Speaker 1>like hold up the he'd always hold up the points.

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<v Speaker 1>Who made me like the last guy that held this

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<v Speaker 1>was you know, sharpen In this for his dinner and

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<v Speaker 1>he'd like make a little story for him about And

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like that always gave our kids some appreciation

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<v Speaker 1>for for the people who came before, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's a value. It makes you feel like a part

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<v Speaker 1>of the whole story when you do that, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>a bizarre human experience to not get your food from

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<v Speaker 1>the killing of an animal with a stone point. For real.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's been it's estimated that like a hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and eight billion humans have ever lived on planet Earth. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>right now, there's about seven point seven something billion people

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<v Speaker 1>on Earth, So there have been about a hundred billion

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<v Speaker 1>people that are no longer alive that have been on

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<v Speaker 1>the earth. We've only been experimenting with this whole agriculture

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<v Speaker 1>thing for about ten thousand years. For real. It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>a it's a It could be argued, but it would

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<v Speaker 1>be a legitimate statement to say the people who live

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<v Speaker 1>in modern times are absolutely, absolutely experimenting with the way

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<v Speaker 1>humans should live. Most humans that have ever lived, we're

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<v Speaker 1>killing their animals with stone points. Great question, follow up,

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<v Speaker 1>is the experiment working? You have to that's got yeah? Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So I hold in my hand a beautiful watercolor painting

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<v Speaker 1>that's water color. I didn't know it was watercolor. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what it is. She painted this, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>come on, just go with it, Okay. I hold my

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful water beautiful watercolor painting of Warner Glenn with the

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<v Speaker 1>with the jaguar. So a well known artist by the

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<v Speaker 1>last name of DeMoss. And I purchased this online. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and so if you type in uh Warner Glenn jaguar painting,

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<v Speaker 1>you can get a reprint of this. And I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to hang this up in the office and so this

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<v Speaker 1>image of this jaguar is the actual photo. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>that that's what the jack, That's what Warner Glenn's photo

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<v Speaker 1>looked like when he took the picture of the jaguar.

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<v Speaker 1>But he wasn't but he wasn't, So the the author

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<v Speaker 1>took some liberty to put Warner Glenn coming up there

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<v Speaker 1>with his white Walker dogs. But Jeremy, so we we've

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<v Speaker 1>interviewed and spent quite a bit of time with this

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<v Speaker 1>old man named Warner Glenn. He's eighties six years old.

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<v Speaker 1>He lives in southeast Arizona, and he was the first

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<v Speaker 1>person in modern times to document a live jaguar in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. So he these jaguars. Does Arkansas have

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<v Speaker 1>a jaguar biologist? If it was to be Myron means

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<v Speaker 1>my Iron means is our jaguar biologist. He's my jaguar biologist.

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<v Speaker 1>Um not my biologist. Uh So Warner has the original

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<v Speaker 1>painting of this hanging in his house. Is huge. It

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<v Speaker 1>is huge. I mean it's like six foot by probably

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<v Speaker 1>five ft maybe bigger, maybe eight it's huge. But we

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<v Speaker 1>were right in this country back in early March when

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<v Speaker 1>we went to Warner Glenn's we made a film. And

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'll go ahead and tell you there's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be a film come out about Warner Glenn. No, I

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<v Speaker 1>really don't, but just gonna be incredible. He's eighty six

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<v Speaker 1>years old, Jeremy and still rides a mule miles a year,

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<v Speaker 1>just a bad to the bone, dry ground lion hunter.

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<v Speaker 1>He really is living legend, Warner Glenn. That being said

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly Glenn Kimbro his daughter. Uh sent me an email

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday and Warner Glenn's oldest best dog named Hook died

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<v Speaker 1>passed away. Hook was twelve years old. So we hunted

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<v Speaker 1>with Hook. Yeah, yeah, he did, he did. And uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Hook bade a lion in a bluff on let's see

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<v Speaker 1>on like in early April, he bade a lion in

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<v Speaker 1>a bluff and the lion jumped off a big cliff

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<v Speaker 1>and Hook he didn't jump, but Hook went down after

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<v Speaker 1>thee and the only dog in the pack. As I

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<v Speaker 1>understood it, that went down in the in the end,

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<v Speaker 1>the rock around that area is just incredible. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>like you could get in a bind in a hurry,

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<v Speaker 1>and this line went off and Hooked twelve years old,

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<v Speaker 1>went off with the lion and got down there and

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<v Speaker 1>was baying the lion. They end up killing the lion

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<v Speaker 1>and then it took Hook forty five minutes of just

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<v Speaker 1>scratching up the rock bluff to get back up, and

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<v Speaker 1>then later they had he was fine after that, but

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<v Speaker 1>but later he just he had some not complications for that,

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<v Speaker 1>but they had to put him down. But anyway, Old Hook,

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<v Speaker 1>but I wanted to show you all that. What say

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<v Speaker 1>on the podcast he said this might be his last

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<v Speaker 1>well he said, he said this might be Hooks last year,

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<v Speaker 1>and it might be mine, is what he said. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, me and Old Hook might go at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time. So I don't think that's gonna happen though.

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<v Speaker 1>Um hey, I wanted to show you all that. And

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<v Speaker 1>then look at this. Colby made this for me. Before

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<v Speaker 1>Colby made this for me, So this is a what

0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 1>is that watercolor? It is paint on painting. Cooby had dismayed.

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 1>So you guys remember the podcast I did about white

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Tail Secrets, and I talked about this big deer that

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I've been hunting for several years that we believe is dead. Um,

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>and we named him Jody, And I didn't tell why

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 1>we named him Jody. There's a song by David Allen

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Co called Jody like a melody in the song, Oh,

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>I wish we could sing it. I wish we could

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.320
<v Speaker 1>sing it. We don't need to do it today. But

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>we can't sing that song. Yeah, we can't. But if

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 1>they like melody, yeah, it's there's like if you listen

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 1>to the song with the thoughts of a white tailed

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 1>deer that just comes in and out of your life. Jody,

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 1>like a melody you play inside my head fill the

0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 1>thought of you is more than I can stand awake

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.040
<v Speaker 1>and wait for you to come on my technicam and

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>when you tell you know, almost lose my mind. Jodi,

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 1>like a melody you want. So we named this Dear

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Jody so Kobe had been out like a white buffalo.

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 1>It's something that legend. Yeah, all right, enough enough foolishness.

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 1>We have a very distinguished guest with us today, Jeremy

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 1>would from the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. Welcome Jeremy.

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 1>I told you we were going to cut up a

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:34.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit before before we got serious. Yeah. So Jeremy

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.600
<v Speaker 1>is the wild turkey biologist for State of Arkansas, which

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 1>is a big deal. Um, so we're gonna I just

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted to introduce him. Do we get to question him later?

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.200
<v Speaker 1>This is the most this is the most hated man

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 1>in Arkansas. What did you do? We're gonna he didn't

0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 1>know he's walked into a trap. No, no, no, no, no,

0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 1>we all got great. I mean I want to hear

0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 1>what have to say before that? Let me introduce all

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>my guests. Misty n Newcomb, Misty Mustache Nukem No. Great

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.960
<v Speaker 1>to have you. Miss y'all know that. But I don't

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 1>know if I can say this or not. Uh, I'm

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna be on the live podcast and in the Live

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Mediator podcast. It's next week in Bozeman, Montana, and I'm

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>gonna have a special guest with me on the live podcast.

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I won't say who, but anyway, that's gonna be a

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>big deal. Um so if it words for shadowing left,

0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Josh Lambridge filmmaker. Great to see you, Josh. And if

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>that special guest can't go, I'd be happy to go

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>with you. All right. Good to see you, Josh. Here

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 1>to your left a guest who's been on here before,

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 1>but it's been a while. Colby Moorhead, Good to see you.

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Mane the bear Tex gonna be back so so Colby

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.440
<v Speaker 1>For anybody who wouldn't know Colby from my from my world,

0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Colby runs Bear Honey Magazine. Facts. Don't talk to me

0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>about Bear Honey Magazine. Talked to Kolby. Yeah, I spend

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>most of my life directing people to Kolbe. Yeah. Bear

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>Honey Magazine For those who wouldn't know much about it.

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Baronni Magazine has been in print for twenty two years

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 1>two thousand. Yeah, since two thousand, the only print Bear

0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Hunting magazine in the world. Facts, yep, just the facts.

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>Just take it or leave it. And um, the magazine

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.440
<v Speaker 1>described the magazine, what what do we have in there? Well,

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's just a beautiful collection of stories and information.

0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>If that's not a kind of polished no, it's uh,

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.920
<v Speaker 1>it's just a collection of just people's stories. We take

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 1>some missions we have freelance writers and they just uh,

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 1>they'll be tips and tactics and just stories and you

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 1>really never know what to expect except that it's going

0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 1>to be very well produced and laid out. And then

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>we'll we always try to tell the story visually as well,

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, as just do the written words. So if

0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 1>you're someone that likes to just flip through a magazine,

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 1>look at the pretty pictures. That's cool. If you want

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>to dive in and just read it cover to cover,

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.720
<v Speaker 1>that's cool. If you're just into hounds and just want

0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:07.919
<v Speaker 1>to read that content and look at everything else, like,

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 1>it really is something that if you're interested in bear

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.679
<v Speaker 1>hunting or just like to know more about that. You know,

0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.680
<v Speaker 1>there's people that get it and never have intentions of

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 1>bear hunting. So it's just a good just a good interface.

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 1>But I would say that as a subscriber, it is

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.959
<v Speaker 1>some fantastic tactile bathroom reading m good. I don't think

0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 1>we want to know what that means. You can put

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>two and two together. So I always tell people if

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 1>you want to get into any kind of bear hunting,

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>so Bear Hunting Magazine we've always tried to give the

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>full gamut of North American bear hunting, which is interesting

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of times a species will be so

0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>isolated to one region, Like if you're hunting elk, I mean,

0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 1>you're pretty much gonna talk about the Rocky Mountain West

0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.960
<v Speaker 1>if you're I mean, there's other species that are widespread,

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.960
<v Speaker 1>but the bear is the most widely, naturally widely distributed,

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.640
<v Speaker 1>big game mammal other than the mountain lion in North America.

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Chew on that, just chew on it. Then think about it.

0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:19.640
<v Speaker 1>So pre European settlement, the most wide, widely distributed mammal

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 1>in North America big game mammal was the mountain lion.

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 1>They were just almost coast to coast from Canada to Mexico.

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.679
<v Speaker 1>Second second was the black bear. So I say that

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 1>to say, we hunt black bear in the East and

0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.760
<v Speaker 1>all these different methods, a lot of hounds, a lot

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>of big woods, eastern deciduous forests, spotting stock stuff, driving dry,

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, doing drives in Pennsylvania. But then you get

0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.119
<v Speaker 1>into the West and you have this big spot in

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 1>stock type hunting. You also have hounds up in Canada

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 1>in the boreal forest. There's it's so thick. Typically it's uh,

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>you're you're hunting bears over bay. You can go to

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Alaska and have all kinds of different hunting. Come to Arkansas,

0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, you hunt them over bait, spot and stock whatever.

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.479
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of different ways to do it. So

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 1>the magazine tries to reflect that. That's all I wanted

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 1>to say. But Kalbi, so what we're trying to do.

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 1>We're there's a there's a thing that Robbi Kroeger at

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Blood Origins, Yeah, at at Blood Origins tell us about

0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 1>what he's doing. Yeah. So there's a project he's wanting

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.239
<v Speaker 1>to help support the Arkansas fishing game. Especially it was

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.120
<v Speaker 1>specifically inside of the black bear research and so they're

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 1>looking to expand and and really seeing how that's going

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>to affect things. They're just wanting to learn more about

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.480
<v Speaker 1>the population of black bears in the and it's particularly

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.160
<v Speaker 1>with the southeastern United States where they United States, Southeast

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Arkansas where they well, southern the Gulf Coastal Plain of

0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Arkansas was like the southern one third where they are

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 1>now opening up a season yeah, yeah, further furthering out

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the previous drawn zones. And uh. Anyways, they're starting a fundraiser.

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.880
<v Speaker 1>They're trying to raise seventy thou dollars to to give

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.719
<v Speaker 1>to this project, and so they're having people open up

0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 1>their own fundraising and and help, you know, commit to

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.360
<v Speaker 1>to trying to reach that goal. And so what we're

0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 1>gonna do is Bare Hunting Magazine is gonna start a

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.760
<v Speaker 1>fundraising runner inside under Blood Origins that we're gonna be

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.960
<v Speaker 1>given away two different hunts to people. One is gonna

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 1>go to the top donor they're gonna be able to

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 1>pick between the two hunts. And then we're also anyone

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.880
<v Speaker 1>who donates even a dollar or whatever the minimum would

0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.879
<v Speaker 1>be will be thrown into a hat to uh to

0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 1>get the remaining hunt. And so one hunt is gonna

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.120
<v Speaker 1>be a coon hunt in Arkansas and the other hunt

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 1>is going to be a hog hunt in East Texas,

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.120
<v Speaker 1>and uh, that hunt's gonna be a lot of fun.

0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 1>Were riding around side by side with thermals and and

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.720
<v Speaker 1>doing some night hunting, could do some day hunting to

0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.680
<v Speaker 1>but just get into uh, just some fun different activities

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.160
<v Speaker 1>that won't get in the way of your personal hunting season.

0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:08.880
<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna be very flexible on on dates and

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.200
<v Speaker 1>we'll we'll be around you know, we're gonna be really

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>uh going around your schedules. And so are you gonna

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 1>tell who the coon hunts with? The coon hunt is

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:24.199
<v Speaker 1>with Mr Velty Smooth voice print reefs Yeah yeah, and

0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:28.679
<v Speaker 1>then uh yeah, and I'll be at that hunt and

0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>so will the uh. David McDaniels, he's East Texas cam

0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 1>on on Instagram. He's going to be hosting the hunt

0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 1>with I think it's Foul Bore Outfitters and in East Texas.

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.560
<v Speaker 1>So basically what he's saying is that you go to

0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.840
<v Speaker 1>the Blood Origins website and you click on the the

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Black Bear Fund Arkansas Black Bear Fund, and you're going

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>there and you'll see a bunch of teams and you

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 1>basically pick which team you want to donate money too.

0:21:56.160 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 1>And so Colby saying, magazine Bear Hunting Magazine the the

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>highest donors. So you know you could give ten bucks

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.760
<v Speaker 1>or a hundred bucks, or a thousand bucks or if

0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:13.560
<v Speaker 1>you're Elon Musk and you know, billions, um you could buy.

0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I tell you, I'm gonna make it offer Elon Musk

0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>right now, Okay, Meat Eater and me will sell him

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the Bear Greache podcast for one billion dollars. I'm gonna

0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:29.479
<v Speaker 1>even just go above my pay grade. On sure you're

0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 1>authorized to. I know I'm not, but I think they

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.399
<v Speaker 1>would be okay with this. So okay, back on track here,

0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:43.159
<v Speaker 1>So the pers that's only for Elon Musk, so no

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.320
<v Speaker 1>one else with a billion dollars. Good step, because think

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.080
<v Speaker 1>of what they would do with it. It could be anything.

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I'd trust Elon ye so so the person that donates

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>the most gets to pick whether they on a hog

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 1>hunt or a coon hunt with Brent Reeves. Yeah, and

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.200
<v Speaker 1>then the second person just entered into or anybody is

0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.720
<v Speaker 1>entered into a draw. Really, they're they're they're raising seventy dollars,

0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 1>which is a pretty noble cause to give to the

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 1>game and fish to buy tracking collars, to study Arkansas

0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.520
<v Speaker 1>black Bears understand what's going on. Big deal. I love it.

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.399
<v Speaker 1>That's that's pretty cool. Hats off to them for working

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.639
<v Speaker 1>hard for that. Hey, before we go much further, I

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about the last Bargaras podcast. So it

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:30.760
<v Speaker 1>was it was quite different than anything we've ever done.

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 1>We've never had just a compilation of stories. I think

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.399
<v Speaker 1>we had eight turkey stories on there, and U I've

0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 1>really enjoyed gathering the stories. I mean it was fun talk. Yeah,

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>so all of you, most of you listen to the podcast, Josh,

0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.720
<v Speaker 1>what was your favorite? What was your favorite one? Okay,

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>so I I have a favorite story and a favorite

0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 1>part of the story. That's my favorite story was honest story. Yeah,

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.800
<v Speaker 1>because I just love I love that that idea of

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 1>his wife. First of all, I love it when a

0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 1>dad takes care of his kids, so his wife can

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>go do something. That's an honorable thing. And I found

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 1>it interesting that the honest wife was gone for like

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 1>nine hours and he was just like, I want to

0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:22.640
<v Speaker 1>go to bed, She'll be fine. But but I love

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.119
<v Speaker 1>the fact that she got so excited about it and

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.119
<v Speaker 1>she was able to detail to him where the turkey

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 1>was and then him going and kill it. What a

0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>cool thing. I mean, that's a great, great, great story

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of partnership. But I before before you go to can

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I can I comment on honest stories. I had somebody go, man,

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 1>what a chauvinistic move to go kill your wife's turkey.

0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 1>He never made any mention of that, but apparently, you know,

0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 1>they had some agreement or something that you know, he

0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 1>was the one that was gonna hunt the next morning.

0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:02.159
<v Speaker 1>And since that was recorded, Oh yeah, well, since that

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 1>was recorded, Janice and his wife went out on their

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:09.160
<v Speaker 1>annual turkey hunt and they both killed turkeys like last week.

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:11.240
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I thought that was a good one, okay.

0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.320
<v Speaker 1>And then the favorite part of another Turkey Now, the

0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 1>favorite part of the other Turkey story was Andy Brown

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>telling the story about the guy with the turkey on

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the other side of the log. And my favorite part

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:26.160
<v Speaker 1>of it is when he said, and I just Rich,

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:35.880
<v Speaker 1>what a redneck terri stuff underneath? I love it. Yeah,

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>I could tell when he started telling that story. That's

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 1>something I didn't He didn't tell me what it was about.

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:43.480
<v Speaker 1>He just said, he said, I got one more I'd

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:45.760
<v Speaker 1>like to tell you. And he had spoken in his

0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:49.120
<v Speaker 1>like normal voice the whole time, and he said, there

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>was an old boy and you know, he kind of

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 1>like dove into kind of this character, you know, and uh,

0:25:55.000 --> 0:26:01.560
<v Speaker 1>and started telling that story. And that reminded me of

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:05.439
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a term it's using the Ozark's probably

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.640
<v Speaker 1>used in the Appalachians too, um, where words are sometimes

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 1>uh like the plural of the word is is was

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:19.040
<v Speaker 1>warped like Ori Province when I when I interviewed Ori Province,

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 1>this old mountain man out here, he said he'd clumb

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:27.800
<v Speaker 1>a tree, clumb past tense like wretched is past tense

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:32.120
<v Speaker 1>of reach. Yeah, past tense, not plural past tense. Yeah,

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:35.679
<v Speaker 1>they're applying standard English rules towards that we don't okay,

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>is that what they're doing, Yeah, that's what they're because

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:43.760
<v Speaker 1>think about it, reach, Rich drug, what did what did

0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 1>Ori Province say, I clumb clumb clumb, I clumb the tree.

0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah anyway, Yeah, that that was I like that story

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Doc Robern about in Louisiana. Maybe actually they're they're applying

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 1>irregular applications. Misty, Hey, that brings up, that brings up

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:03.879
<v Speaker 1>something I've been wanting to talk about. And we're not

0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:07.639
<v Speaker 1>because we're gonna go right to Kobe. Um. But Jerry

0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Clower we did an episode on Jerry Cloud and they

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 1>constantly used the word that. What they were that which

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:19.679
<v Speaker 1>are daughter? They would say until she was like seven,

0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean she was pretty old and and she inate Lea.

0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.160
<v Speaker 1>They would say like, rather than saying, um, we're gonna

0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 1>take the car that we used to on Sunday but

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 1>we're not, they'd say, we're gonna take the car what

0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>we used to drive on Sunday but now we don't anymore.

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.639
<v Speaker 1>That like constantly he used the word what where We

0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 1>would say that. Okay, Kobe moving right along favorite Turkey story,

0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 1>which sounds normal to me. I was like, what are

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.639
<v Speaker 1>we talking? What are we talking about? Uh? Man? I

0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.159
<v Speaker 1>Like the general theme is it always involved someone else

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 1>and there was a lot of perseverance inside like, I

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.280
<v Speaker 1>thought that was really cool. But my hat tip would

0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:00.720
<v Speaker 1>probably go to Mr. Will. You know, just I could

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 1>put myself in that story of just like I could.

0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 1>I could visualize that whole thing. It was like I

0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:09.240
<v Speaker 1>was just there with him inside of it, and uh,

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>it was it the way he told it. It was

0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the way he told it, It was the relationship he

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 1>had with the landowner. And then it was also like overcoming, like, man,

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:20.120
<v Speaker 1>nobody has been able to get this one for years

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:22.560
<v Speaker 1>and he's just going there and he's like, you know,

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if he just wasn't thinking what if I

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:27.640
<v Speaker 1>gotten myself into They didn't name this birden, I can't

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:30.239
<v Speaker 1>get to him, and so I was like, man, I'm

0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>like to work hard. What do I do? You know?

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 1>And then just overcoming an obstacle and just you know,

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 1>I just like the the whole kind of climatic the

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>way that he told the story story. Yeah, and you

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 1>know of all the Turkey's wills killed, which he's killed hundreds, bro,

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And you could just hear his humility inside of it.

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 1>You know. I thought that was cool too. Yeah, he

0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 1>seems like a really humble guy. Cool. Jeremy, what was

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>your favorite story so I got I got to and

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 1>then but both basically kind of bowls down to one point.

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:02.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, I was listening to one of yours and

0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 1>one of Steve's, you know, talking about taking the kids

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 1>out hunting and thinking about you know how literal you know,

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 1>kids take a lot of things, so I don't remember

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>it's your daughter or niece that you know, you know, yeah,

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:17.320
<v Speaker 1>you know taking out. I don't open your eyes, and like,

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 1>did you see it? No, I heard all of this unfolding,

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:23.440
<v Speaker 1>but I was just like I couldn't do it. And

0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:25.960
<v Speaker 1>then Steve's you know, thinking about his daughter and like

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, shooting in the head and I can't see

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>the hen and he's telling me to shoot well and

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 1>I can't talk, and I can't talk. So I got

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 1>shoot here, and so I was like just trying to

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.160
<v Speaker 1>like just so call that in thinking, you know, six

0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>seven years down the line or more, you know, whenever

0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:42.120
<v Speaker 1>we feel comfortable enough with our own son and be like, okay,

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe we can try to get out here

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.640
<v Speaker 1>and try to take one, Like okay, you know, how

0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:50.440
<v Speaker 1>do you learn from those those kind of mistakes? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.000
<v Speaker 1>you can take literal cues from those stories of what

0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>not walking through well? And then Andy Brown talked about

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 1>his son Scott, who who didn't shoot a walk in Turkey?

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Remember that? And that was that was the exact I

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 1>hadn't even put all those three together, but those three

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 1>stories from Steve's story of his daughter shooting a turkey

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 1>when when she didn't have a good shot because he

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.280
<v Speaker 1>had told her not to talk, so she couldn't tell

0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:22.240
<v Speaker 1>him that he she shouldn't shoot, but he said shoot.

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:27.960
<v Speaker 1>So she's just like okay. And then to Mallory closing

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 1>her eyes and we told her, turkey, you'll see the

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>watch of your eyes. So she's like, solve that problem,

0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 1>closed her eyes. Turkey's come strutting in. And then too

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Andy Brown telling Scott, don't shoot a walk in Turkey.

0:30:40.440 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 1>And so this turkey just just walks right and from anyway,

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:49.160
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, Jeremy, I had never connected those three. That's good, Yeah,

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:50.720
<v Speaker 1>but no, that that that was really it, you know,

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.040
<v Speaker 1>just like taking those lessons you know, the heart and

0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.240
<v Speaker 1>like just thinking about me. They're all fun stories to

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 1>listen to obviously, and then but yeah, just thinking that

0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:00.720
<v Speaker 1>into my own personal you know, just buying Okay, how

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>how do I how do I wordless you know, down

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>the line when I'm trying to go through those same lessons,

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:07.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, be Okay, you need to shoot it in

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the head, but don't don't just focus like you know,

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:11.479
<v Speaker 1>just make sure you focus and you shoot it out

0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:13.280
<v Speaker 1>the head. But don't if I tell you to shoot,

0:31:13.320 --> 0:31:15.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, tell me if you can't shoot, or something

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:17.960
<v Speaker 1>like that. You see, what's the developmental thing that's going

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>on there with kids when they take you they're concrete thinkers.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.400
<v Speaker 1>They haven't developed abstract thought yet. So if you say,

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 1>don't shoot a turkey walking, your dad really didn't mean

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.640
<v Speaker 1>that entirely. He just means if you have a choice,

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:35.080
<v Speaker 1>and the turkeys, like, yeah, they're taking it concretely. They don't.

0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 1>They're not picturing like they're just applying literal, concrete rules

0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:42.600
<v Speaker 1>to this. And that's pretty much the way kid should

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:45.280
<v Speaker 1>take what their parents say during that period of their

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 1>life exactly what I say, don't take any liberty of

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 1>yourself to think on your own sort of Okay, my

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 1>my my favorite story, I think, and and all of

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:02.800
<v Speaker 1>them had a lot of unique dynamics, but I liked

0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:07.000
<v Speaker 1>most story and part of so there's when I just

0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>petition these guys to tell me their favorite turkey story.

0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 1>In my mind, a turkey story was good because of

0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:19.200
<v Speaker 1>some dynamic hunting component or something like really exciting that

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.960
<v Speaker 1>was said, but or exciting that happened, like a turkey

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:26.400
<v Speaker 1>did something really wild. It was interesting for me to

0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:28.960
<v Speaker 1>hear all the reasons why because I didn't try to

0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>coach him of like what why something would be good

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 1>or bad? And Jannat and Steve both said, hey, our

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>stories are like they kind of we're like, I hope

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 1>this is what you're looking for. And I was like, no,

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.240
<v Speaker 1>you just you get to decide what your favorite again

0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>story is. And so it's interesting for Johannese because he's

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 1>killed a lot of turkeys and had a lot of

0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 1>real exciting hunts and he tells us one story about

0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 1>his wife, you know. And then Steve has killed a

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:56.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of turkeys, had a lot of exciting turkey hunts

0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and he tells the story about his daughter. I thought

0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>os was interesting. I like that his dad woke him up.

0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:07.080
<v Speaker 1>And this is when Moe was an adult. His dad

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 1>woke him up and said you might as well go.

0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>And that was a theme I know from talking to

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Mo that that was the theme of his His dad

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 1>always used to say, I can't kill him when you're

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 1>on the couch like that was just just go, let's go.

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:21.880
<v Speaker 1>And that's a good If you want to be a

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 1>successful hunter, you just gotta go. You can't wait for

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 1>conditions to always be right. His dad said, well, you

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:34.160
<v Speaker 1>thought you heard one that's better than all the ones. Yeah, yeah,

0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:37.880
<v Speaker 1>And it basically two mornings, exact same scenario. Very unlikely.

0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, killing a bird and pouring down rain off

0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:43.080
<v Speaker 1>the roost. I mean, I would say is a highly

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:49.040
<v Speaker 1>unlikely scenario to mourners row, same spot, same story. I mean,

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that would never line up, That would line up once

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 1>in a lifetime for something like that to happen. I

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.680
<v Speaker 1>thought it was pretty cool. One of my favorite quotes

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.760
<v Speaker 1>from from one of the stories was Will Premost when

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.440
<v Speaker 1>he said he said it may not have worked any

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 1>other day, but it worked exactly. That was good. That

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:19.080
<v Speaker 1>was good. All right. I hold him my right hand

0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:24.040
<v Speaker 1>here the Arkansas Turkey Hunting guide Book, and so we're

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.239
<v Speaker 1>gonna talk. We're gonna talk here to Mr Jeremy. We're

0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:32.399
<v Speaker 1>going to see if you have this memorize. I once

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.680
<v Speaker 1>knew a guy This is a true story. I once

0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:37.839
<v Speaker 1>knew a guy and I can't say his name. He's

0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:41.239
<v Speaker 1>still alive. I mean, he's not even that old. And

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:44.560
<v Speaker 1>he once handed us a book, me and my dad

0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 1>about ornithology, ornithology, birds, study of birds and uh. And

0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 1>he said he just handed it to it. He was

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.239
<v Speaker 1>trying to show us that he knew a lot. And

0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 1>he said, pick out any page on there and ask

0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:02.520
<v Speaker 1>me any question. And Dad, I was standing there, that

0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:04.799
<v Speaker 1>just picks it up, opens it up and says, all right,

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:10.080
<v Speaker 1>page one thirty three, you know the speckled belly winged

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Tarminger And he and he read verbatim like what it

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:20.160
<v Speaker 1>said about that. The guy just like a freak genius.

0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:23.359
<v Speaker 1>And he said, I've memorized that book and he had,

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.839
<v Speaker 1>he at least convinced us yeah this was let's unless

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:28.759
<v Speaker 1>he had it rigged where you opened it up and

0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 1>your fer went to like the same spot. Long story. Okay,

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:39.359
<v Speaker 1>so Jeremy back to Jeremy man you are you're not

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 1>from Arkansas, but tell me a little bit about your

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 1>career and wildlife biology, like where have you been and

0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:48.600
<v Speaker 1>how did you get here? Okay? Yeah, so I mean, yeah,

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>transplant not not from Arkansas, from Massachusetts. Originally, UM went

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>to the University of Maine for my undergraduate and wildlife

0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:00.160
<v Speaker 1>coology and trying to figure out what I want to

0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:02.239
<v Speaker 1>do in this world. You know, I hadn't figured my

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 1>place by the time I finished my undergraduate degree, so

0:36:04.640 --> 0:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I jumped around the country. I lived in Wyoming, Louisiana, Florida,

0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:14.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, working with different state agencies, different federal agencies, universities,

0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 1>really trying to figure out my place in the world,

0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:20.360
<v Speaker 1>and got into working with wild turkeys under Mike Chamber

0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:24.200
<v Speaker 1>and their university UM. Early on, one of his grad

0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:26.080
<v Speaker 1>students took a chance on me. I hadn't had any

0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>experience with game birds to that point, and you know,

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 1>I basically got hooked at that point with turkeys and

0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 1>did that position. Jumped the next year, worked with another

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:37.840
<v Speaker 1>graduate student before I ended up getting my own graduate

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:42.120
<v Speaker 1>project under Mike back in So I did that for

0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 1>a few years, graduated with my master's from the University

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 1>of Georgia, and then moved down to Florida, got with

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:51.040
<v Speaker 1>their turkey program. I was their assistant wild turkey program

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:54.000
<v Speaker 1>coordinator for about a year. When this opportunity came up

0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.680
<v Speaker 1>here in Arkansas, and I took a chance and agency

0:36:56.719 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>to chance. Uh so what year did you become the

0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 1>wild turkey? About? Just here here late summer? So it's

0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:08.400
<v Speaker 1>my fourth season, fourth turkey season here in Arkansas, just

0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:10.600
<v Speaker 1>out of curiosity. When you were in Massachusetts, what got

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.880
<v Speaker 1>you interested in wildlife? It was, you know, honestly, I

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 1>grew up fishing. My grandfather hunted his whole life. I

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:19.560
<v Speaker 1>shot a little bit when I was growing up with him.

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Never got into hunting. And I went to undergraduate thinking,

0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm gonna go on the wildlife side of things.

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:28.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I like to fish too much. I'm not

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:29.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna I'm not gonna do that, you know, and go

0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 1>for fisheries degree or anything like that. I'm gonna go

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:34.880
<v Speaker 1>go for wildlife because fishing is what I love to do.

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to ruin that by going going to

0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:39.359
<v Speaker 1>work in wildlife. And next thing, you know, I got

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:43.400
<v Speaker 1>into hunting outside of um undergraduate, you know, early twenties.

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Once I graduated, I got into hunting, and it's you know,

0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 1>been but I love affair basically ever since what was

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.920
<v Speaker 1>your thesis on with so with Mike? So I looked

0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:58.359
<v Speaker 1>at the reproductive ecology of female wild turkeys. So they're

0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 1>looking at nesting broodery and relation to small scale prescribed

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 1>fires during the nesting season. You know, obviously a lot

0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:12.840
<v Speaker 1>of that. Honestly, you know, very few nests are actually

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:14.880
<v Speaker 1>lost the fire. You know, there's at least in that

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.360
<v Speaker 1>in that system where I was at in southwest Georgia.

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're managing it more for quail um, So

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:26.120
<v Speaker 1>they're talking about a lot of smaller burns, um frequent fires,

0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and so they're burning on a two to three year

0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:31.759
<v Speaker 1>fire returnat well, sometimes sooner it depending on the objectives

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:33.799
<v Speaker 1>and what they needed to do within that stand. But

0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about acreages that may range from you know,

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.400
<v Speaker 1>fifty acres to a couple of hundred acres in size

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:41.320
<v Speaker 1>and a typical burn and they may be doing to

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:44.200
<v Speaker 1>three units a day if the conditions were right. We're

0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 1>working in long leaf pine savannah, so really open, kind

0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 1>of flat communities that you know, you let a match

0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:53.440
<v Speaker 1>and you could get them to roll across that fairly quickly.

0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:56.880
<v Speaker 1>But you know, in general, most of the stands of

0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 1>those birds were targeting to nest. You know, we're about

0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:02.960
<v Speaker 1>a year to post fire and they weren't. They were

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:05.560
<v Speaker 1>still a year or more out from from having another

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:08.359
<v Speaker 1>burn rolled through there. So you know, we didn't lose

0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.560
<v Speaker 1>a single nest in the study to fire. When would

0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:14.719
<v Speaker 1>they burning? They're burning anywhere from January all the way

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>up into June. Really give us a give us a

0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 1>rundown of the Arkansas turkey situation, because so two podcasts ago,

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, we talked with Mike Chamberlain and we always

0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:31.359
<v Speaker 1>hear how Arkansas is like the poster child for the

0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Southeast turkey decline. And so give us kind of a

0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:40.239
<v Speaker 1>timeline of history of the Arkansas turkey population to the

0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.359
<v Speaker 1>best of your knowledge, bringing it up till today. So

0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, from from my understanding, basically, you know, if

0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:47.839
<v Speaker 1>if we go back about a hundred years or so,

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:51.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, early nineteen hundreds, populations in the state were

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:54.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, hitting there about lowest points. By nineteen thirty,

0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:57.760
<v Speaker 1>nineteen forties, they're estimated wo be only about seven thousand

0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:01.680
<v Speaker 1>wild turkeys left in the state. Game Fish Commission was

0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:05.360
<v Speaker 1>created in around nineteen fifteen, and you know, late teens,

0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 1>early twenties, they're already starting to think about, you know,

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:10.560
<v Speaker 1>what they needed to do with wild turkeys started setting

0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 1>seasons justin bag limits, though still incredibly liberal to what

0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you see today. But they also started considering restocking with

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 1>captive raised wild turkeys, you know, game farm birds, and

0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 1>they put those out for many years and wasn't really

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:28.200
<v Speaker 1>successful at all. Those birds didn't have the natural instincts,

0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:30.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, to actually survive in the wild. They weren't

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:33.760
<v Speaker 1>used to predators anything like that. It wasn't until rocket

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:37.719
<v Speaker 1>nets were really picked up in popularity and that technique

0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:40.640
<v Speaker 1>was developed in the late forties early fifties that you know,

0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:44.800
<v Speaker 1>catching wild wild birds and moving this. That's when they

0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:47.760
<v Speaker 1>would put out bait for turkeys. Big flock of turkeys

0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 1>would come in and they had rocket propelled nets that

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 1>would shoot out and catch a whole flock of turkeys

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.879
<v Speaker 1>and then they take those turkeys transport them somewhere else.

0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:02.399
<v Speaker 1>So that was in the night, so they were able

0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 1>and they were bringing turkeys in from other states or

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.440
<v Speaker 1>just other places where we had turkeys some other states.

0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:10.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, we had some birds coming in from places

0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:12.520
<v Speaker 1>like Missouri. I think we did get some birds from

0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Pennsylvania at points um both captive reared ones and actual

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 1>wild stock birds. But the majority of birds in the

0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:22.480
<v Speaker 1>state actually came from Brandywine Islands, an island over I

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 1>think it's Mississippi County in the middle of Mississippi River.

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Really good turkey populations over there, and so they caught

0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.160
<v Speaker 1>a lot of birds there and moved them too different

0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:33.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of refuges around the state where they were stocked.

0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:36.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, early on, they let hunting still go and

0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:38.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, realized that some of those situations wasn't working

0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that well. So they got to the point where they

0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 1>started closing those areas for a period of years to

0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 1>allow those birds to naturally repopulate the area and expand.

0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think they were estimating that they expand

0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:52.279
<v Speaker 1>somewhere ten to twenty miles over several years um and

0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:55.719
<v Speaker 1>kind of fill those those habitats at the time. And

0:41:55.760 --> 0:41:59.400
<v Speaker 1>so most of that restocking was finished by the the

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:02.600
<v Speaker 1>early to mid nineties, though there were still so for

0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.319
<v Speaker 1>fifty years they were really stocking turkeys. Yeah, and the

0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 1>majority of those, you know, they kind of focused in

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:10.800
<v Speaker 1>and around the national forest lands and large public lands

0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:13.840
<v Speaker 1>because you know, early on the idea was that you know,

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:17.279
<v Speaker 1>wild turkeys were you know, they needed thick forest, not

0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.560
<v Speaker 1>necessarily thick forest, but large expanses of forest, because that

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 1>those are the areas that turkeys were left, you know,

0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:24.800
<v Speaker 1>all these places that were harder to exploit. They hadn't

0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:28.399
<v Speaker 1>really been harassed to the point that they were extirpated

0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:30.279
<v Speaker 1>from the area like they were in a lot of

0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:32.279
<v Speaker 1>other areas where there was there was more people and

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.440
<v Speaker 1>it was easier access. So you know, those early efforts

0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:38.640
<v Speaker 1>focused there first and then built upon it. It wasn't

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:41.319
<v Speaker 1>until you started getting into the seventies and eighties and

0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.000
<v Speaker 1>maybe the nineties where they started looking at what they

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 1>considered these more marginal habitats where you had this more

0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:51.600
<v Speaker 1>of a combination interspersion of kind of open land and

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:54.400
<v Speaker 1>forested habitats and realized that that's actually more of an

0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:59.120
<v Speaker 1>ideal turkey habitats. And that's when populations really exped and

0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:04.080
<v Speaker 1>and so the Arkansas turkey populations by the late seventies

0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:09.040
<v Speaker 1>and eighties just skyrocketed. Yeah, they started to jump. I mean,

0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I think there were some periods, you know, even back

0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:14.520
<v Speaker 1>in the seventies and eighties that you saw these fluctuations

0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>where we had good numbers and then there were some

0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:19.719
<v Speaker 1>bad years, you know, following poor weather events poor hatches,

0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.280
<v Speaker 1>but in general that trend was continuing to to increase

0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.520
<v Speaker 1>all through time, and we hit about the early two thousands,

0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and that's when when things peak, you know, the late

0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:31.200
<v Speaker 1>late nineties, early two thousands. You know, we ended up

0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:34.399
<v Speaker 1>The highest harvest year we had was two thousand and three.

0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:37.480
<v Speaker 1>The state we harvest had just under twenty thousand turkeys

0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that year, and then there was we refer to that

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 1>time period as the good old days. Yes, yes, that's

0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:45.399
<v Speaker 1>what I hear off them. So twenty thousand was our

0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:49.319
<v Speaker 1>biggest number of birds taken, Yes, yes, just under that.

0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Now that that's always been an interesting number to me,

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:57.600
<v Speaker 1>because like Missouri, they might kill fifty thousand turkeys, Is

0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:00.120
<v Speaker 1>that about right? Yeah? I mean in recent years has

0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:01.680
<v Speaker 1>been a lot less, but I think at their peak,

0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:03.799
<v Speaker 1>which was in and around that same time, they killed

0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:06.920
<v Speaker 1>about sixty thousand turkeys up there, that's a lot. And

0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>I know you can't it's not comparing apples to apples,

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 1>to compare to states. I mean, they had a lot

0:44:11.719 --> 0:44:15.040
<v Speaker 1>of agg land, maybe more agg land than us. I

0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:17.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know what about Mississippi. What would have there been

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:21.520
<v Speaker 1>their peak harvest numbers? I can't remember exactly what their

0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:24.080
<v Speaker 1>peaks were, but you know, I think typically you see

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:26.880
<v Speaker 1>nowadays that they estimate somewhere in the twenty five to

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.720
<v Speaker 1>thirty thousand range. It was probably somewhat higher and higher

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 1>than Arkansas that yeah, yeah, I can't remember what those

0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 1>figures were exactly, but it was probably you know, thirty

0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:41.160
<v Speaker 1>five forty thousand something. Would Oklahoma not have had more

0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:45.439
<v Speaker 1>birds than us even historically at our peak. Oklahoma gets

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:48.920
<v Speaker 1>difficult because you start moving into Rio Grand wild turkeys

0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and the majority of the state and you know, basically

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:54.000
<v Speaker 1>your southeastern corner of the states where you're you have

0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:56.640
<v Speaker 1>true Easterns and then they you know, they talk about

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 1>this sort of hybrid zone between the two, but the

0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:01.759
<v Speaker 1>majority of the kind of central and western portion of

0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.520
<v Speaker 1>the states Rio, So it starts getting a little different

0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:06.759
<v Speaker 1>when you know, it gets to that apples to oranges comparison.

0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:10.280
<v Speaker 1>To truly say what's going on, I honestly can't couldn't

0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:13.839
<v Speaker 1>tell you what their harvests look like through time. Yeah, well,

0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of it's interesting to me when we talk

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 1>about the turkey situation here in Arkansas, because really it's

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 1>a pretty i mean, twenty years isn't that long when

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:26.239
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at wildlife management and looking at like a

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:31.239
<v Speaker 1>broad scale of animal population is going up and down. Um,

0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:35.520
<v Speaker 1>And and humans including myself and Josh are pretty finicky

0:45:35.640 --> 0:45:40.160
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to uh, turkey numbers. Um. I mean

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:43.359
<v Speaker 1>you can go from a three year period and people

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:45.920
<v Speaker 1>might say, oh, man, there's no turkeys anymore, and you know,

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:49.160
<v Speaker 1>three years before they were wearing them out, you know,

0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:53.239
<v Speaker 1>but just to get just so so I can be

0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:56.400
<v Speaker 1>clear on this, what you're describing is an enormous amount

0:45:56.400 --> 0:46:00.600
<v Speaker 1>of effort to get turkeys, which was still lower than

0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 1>what are the surrounding states had at our peak. We

0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 1>were still smaller. Yeah, and that and the other states

0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:10.440
<v Speaker 1>put forth the effort that we did. It's it's hard

0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:14.879
<v Speaker 1>as far as restocking them. Yeah, so I mean mostly yep, yep,

0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:17.440
<v Speaker 1>all these all these are this was happening across the

0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:21.600
<v Speaker 1>country during this entire period. Um. You know, north south

0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Louisiana to Wisconsin east, you know, the Maine in Florida,

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:28.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, all those states were experiencing these same declines,

0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:30.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the early nineteen hundreds and then through

0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 1>time through the middle nineteen hundreds really started ramping up

0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:38.239
<v Speaker 1>that um those efforts in restock, and I think Mississippi

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:40.720
<v Speaker 1>was one of those states that was was fairly early

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:43.200
<v Speaker 1>in there where they considered things to be successful and

0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:45.919
<v Speaker 1>kind of complete. We we were right there, probably within

0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.040
<v Speaker 1>a few years of what they would have assumed. And

0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>so you can't really, like me, comparing Arkansas Missouri is

0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:54.200
<v Speaker 1>really not fair. I mean, Missouri might be bigger, I

0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:56.359
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it just says a different habitats, so that's

0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 1>not really relevant. But I just kind of was trying

0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to get like a bigger picture of because that was

0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.160
<v Speaker 1>my understanding is that Missouri has always killed a bunch

0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:07.520
<v Speaker 1>more than us. Mississippi is always killed a bunch more

0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:09.440
<v Speaker 1>than us. What's interested is, you know a lot of

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:12.200
<v Speaker 1>people look at those bordering states, but I very rarely

0:47:12.239 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 1>hear folks look south of the border. You know that

0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.879
<v Speaker 1>they don't talk about Louisiana often. And you know, that's

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:19.719
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that I've tried to do since

0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.759
<v Speaker 1>I got here was kind of take a look at

0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.120
<v Speaker 1>that that landscape context. What are we looking at here

0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:27.160
<v Speaker 1>in Arkansas? Because you know, people talk about that that

0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:30.520
<v Speaker 1>twenty thousand birds, and you know there's some some interesting things,

0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, in regards to what our regulations were like

0:47:32.600 --> 0:47:35.239
<v Speaker 1>at that time to where we're at now. That that

0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:37.840
<v Speaker 1>make it even harder to compare harvest to now to

0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:41.040
<v Speaker 1>back then. But when you just look at the landscape context,

0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:44.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, most of Arkansas are a larger proportion of

0:47:44.840 --> 0:47:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Arkansas looks a lot like Louisiana, and I feel they

0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:51.080
<v Speaker 1>typically harvest you know, about three to five thousand birds

0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:54.160
<v Speaker 1>or so on average their estimates, Yeah, between their you know,

0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 1>game check and then their estimates you know on hunter surveys,

0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:01.200
<v Speaker 1>their estimating right in that ballpark. So we're just a

0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:03.480
<v Speaker 1>little bit above that. And then you move into Missouri

0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:05.360
<v Speaker 1>and you know, obviously they're they're killing a ton of

0:48:05.360 --> 0:48:08.280
<v Speaker 1>different birds. But you know, Arkansas is this unique mix

0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:15.080
<v Speaker 1>of these different regional landskates all coming together. I mean essentially, yeah,

0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:17.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you've got the Ozarks on the kind of

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the northern quarter of the state. You're moving down south

0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:23.240
<v Speaker 1>below the River Valley. You know, that's a whole unique area.

0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Then you get into the Washington Mountains below that, you've

0:48:26.120 --> 0:48:28.240
<v Speaker 1>got that large pro portion of the states, the Gulf

0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Coastal Plain, you know, primarily pine managed timber and then

0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:35.080
<v Speaker 1>you move over in the entire eastern about quarter to

0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:39.040
<v Speaker 1>third of the states that's really developed m agricultural land,

0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:42.960
<v Speaker 1>bottom land laying around all these major river corridors. So

0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you know that really the only remaining habitat out there

0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:48.399
<v Speaker 1>is the bottom land tracks along the White Cash River,

0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:52.600
<v Speaker 1>the Mississippi River, Crowley's Ridge, that formation. But outside of that,

0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's essentially non habitat. So you know, that

0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 1>really restricts the amount of available habitat. And it's like

0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:03.640
<v Speaker 1>the eastern third of the state at least, it's like

0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:07.360
<v Speaker 1>pretty limited turkey habitat. I mean, what he's saying is

0:49:07.400 --> 0:49:12.200
<v Speaker 1>just along the rivers and stuff. There's there's places for him. Um, okay,

0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:14.440
<v Speaker 1>I want to I want to ask you. I want

0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:16.839
<v Speaker 1>to ask you about three things. I want to talk

0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:21.040
<v Speaker 1>about burning big national forests and specifically the timing of it.

0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to you about bag limits, and

0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:27.799
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to you about this is kind

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:32.719
<v Speaker 1>of like your personal opinion of what's what's going on,

0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:35.080
<v Speaker 1>because I think there's a lot. So I'm declaring that.

0:49:35.160 --> 0:49:37.719
<v Speaker 1>So ah, y'all canna help me stay on track, Okay, Oh,

0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:40.719
<v Speaker 1>we'll help you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. So, man, I

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:45.040
<v Speaker 1>understand like anybody that's paying attention to wild turkey management

0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:49.440
<v Speaker 1>has heard this statement and can grab onto it pretty easily.

0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Is that burning helps turkeys more than it helps them. Yeah,

0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:56.360
<v Speaker 1>maybe if fire would burn up and nests as possible,

0:49:56.760 --> 0:49:59.640
<v Speaker 1>but turkeys can have another nest in the same spring.

0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:03.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm just giving you the simple version. But what happens

0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:05.440
<v Speaker 1>when you burn is that's one spring, and then the

0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:10.400
<v Speaker 1>habitat has improved so much the next however many years

0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:13.840
<v Speaker 1>that anything you lost during that one spring has gained

0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:18.920
<v Speaker 1>so much more in previous years. Because Mr nukelem everybody

0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:22.640
<v Speaker 1>where I grew up, everybody. This week I heard it

0:50:22.719 --> 0:50:24.960
<v Speaker 1>from a guy. He said, Man, we used to have

0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:28.239
<v Speaker 1>turkeys in the National Forest. Boy started burning all the

0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:31.680
<v Speaker 1>timber in in April, burning up at turkey nests. That

0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:35.600
<v Speaker 1>actually sounds like his accent um. And uh. And I

0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:37.839
<v Speaker 1>didn't even I mean, I didn't even want to get

0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:40.560
<v Speaker 1>into it with him. But that was that guy. And

0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:43.200
<v Speaker 1>then I heard another guy who I deeply respect, who

0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 1>has a wildlife biology degree, who gave a little ramp

0:50:47.160 --> 0:50:51.319
<v Speaker 1>the other day and he, uh, he said, I know

0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:54.960
<v Speaker 1>all the benefits of burns, like you don't have to

0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:56.680
<v Speaker 1>tell me about the benefits of burns and how it

0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:59.879
<v Speaker 1>helps Turkey habitat. But he says, we're burning so late

0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:05.080
<v Speaker 1>that we're inevitably burning up nests and inevitably putting birds

0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:09.000
<v Speaker 1>at in a vulnerable place by having them to lay

0:51:09.080 --> 0:51:12.640
<v Speaker 1>eggs again and make a second clutch. And basically he

0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:15.760
<v Speaker 1>was like, yeah, I've heard all that stuff about good habitat,

0:51:15.800 --> 0:51:19.080
<v Speaker 1>but we're still burning up nests and really compromising the

0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:22.040
<v Speaker 1>hands ability to nest. Do you understand what I'm talking about, mister?

0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:25.279
<v Speaker 1>I do. I'm What I don't understand is why I'm

0:51:25.320 --> 0:51:27.279
<v Speaker 1>the fall guy for the person who doesn't know much

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:34.560
<v Speaker 1>in this particular tricky experts. Right, No, No, I don't.

0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:36.680
<v Speaker 1>I just want to make sure you're following. So do

0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you understand what I'm saying? So what's the truth? Man? So?

0:51:39.560 --> 0:51:42.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, no to fires are created equal

0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:44.160
<v Speaker 1>that you know that's the reality. And you know a

0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:46.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of people that look at the national forests and

0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:48.520
<v Speaker 1>you know what's going on there, and you know, you

0:51:48.600 --> 0:51:51.719
<v Speaker 1>gotta remember that that's only a signy segment of this

0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:54.360
<v Speaker 1>entire state. So the idea that you know we're burning

0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:56.719
<v Speaker 1>up all the nests and that's what's causing population to

0:51:56.800 --> 0:51:59.279
<v Speaker 1>clients in this entire state, you know, is probably a

0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:04.200
<v Speaker 1>little bit near sided. I mean, they're they're not right there.

0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:05.919
<v Speaker 1>Before you even get on, because that's a good point.

0:52:06.200 --> 0:52:09.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like, it's not just on national forests that turkeys

0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:12.040
<v Speaker 1>are scrambling. Yep, yep, exactly. That's kind of your point.

0:52:12.080 --> 0:52:14.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like, well, then it must not be the fire. Yeah,

0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:16.000
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily. I mean there there still is, you know,

0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:18.799
<v Speaker 1>obviously issues. You know, most of the research that's out

0:52:18.800 --> 0:52:22.080
<v Speaker 1>there these days suggest that there is really minimal loss

0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:24.880
<v Speaker 1>due to fire. It's not saying that there's not potentially

0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:27.960
<v Speaker 1>lost happening, but you know it in the grand scheme

0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:30.239
<v Speaker 1>of things, with all the other factors that are out there,

0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:33.600
<v Speaker 1>it's it's relatively small fish, you know, and most people

0:52:33.680 --> 0:52:34.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I put this out in a lot of

0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:37.319
<v Speaker 1>the presentations that I do. You know, you walk up

0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:39.600
<v Speaker 1>on a turkey nest that's in one of those burns,

0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:41.400
<v Speaker 1>you see it. You know, it's it's either got a

0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 1>bunch of crushed eggs or it's got a bunch of

0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:45.840
<v Speaker 1>whole eggs. You don't know the whole story, Ben, what

0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:49.160
<v Speaker 1>what's actually happened there. So you know, I look back

0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:52.360
<v Speaker 1>to my master's degree, and we're looking specifically these burns,

0:52:52.400 --> 0:52:54.799
<v Speaker 1>specifically this time of year. Granted, these are a lot

0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:57.640
<v Speaker 1>smaller scale than what we're talking about here, you know,

0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:00.879
<v Speaker 1>on national forests and maybe thousands of acres. But you'd

0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:02.719
<v Speaker 1>walk up on a nest and you say, okay, well

0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.400
<v Speaker 1>that that burned. But well, now I know that this

0:53:05.440 --> 0:53:07.359
<v Speaker 1>one has had a GPS transmitter on it. I can

0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:09.480
<v Speaker 1>go back and I can look and see see what

0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 1>happened and realize, you know, she abandoned the nest two

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:15.160
<v Speaker 1>days before this fire ever showed up. Nothing had taken

0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:17.920
<v Speaker 1>those eggs. You walk in there, you know it's been burned.

0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:20.279
<v Speaker 1>The eggs are clearly visible. You assume, you know, if

0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:23.640
<v Speaker 1>you don't have that information, that that that nest was

0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:26.200
<v Speaker 1>was burned up, and so that that kind of further

0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:30.480
<v Speaker 1>some of those simple story to say that the fires,

0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:32.680
<v Speaker 1>but what did it? But but you don't know that

0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:35.480
<v Speaker 1>whole back story, and and so there's more things to

0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:38.759
<v Speaker 1>go into it. Why wouldn't they just not burn in April? Yeah?

0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:41.200
<v Speaker 1>The reality you know here national forest land, I mean,

0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:44.000
<v Speaker 1>you have so many thousands of acres that you're millions

0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:46.440
<v Speaker 1>acres that you're attempting to manage for, and they're managing

0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:50.040
<v Speaker 1>for for multiple uses. It's not just turkey population. I wish,

0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:52.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, as a as a turkey biologist, that we

0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:54.400
<v Speaker 1>could manage every you know, acre in the state for

0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:57.080
<v Speaker 1>wild turkeys. But that's, you know, not the reality. They're

0:53:57.080 --> 0:54:00.239
<v Speaker 1>they're they're burning for you know, fuels, met again sation,

0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:03.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfires, all

0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:06.640
<v Speaker 1>of these different things. And you've got to kind of

0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:11.160
<v Speaker 1>get those burns and wildfires in Arkansas. I'm sure there

0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:13.399
<v Speaker 1>have been at some point, I know in recent years.

0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:16.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, you look east of us in Tennessee. You know,

0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:18.160
<v Speaker 1>you had those big fires that occurred. I think it

0:54:18.200 --> 0:54:21.040
<v Speaker 1>was around Gatlinburg and in that area. I mean, so

0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:23.840
<v Speaker 1>there is the potential in the east, particularly with some

0:54:23.920 --> 0:54:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of the fuel loads we have. You think about how

0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:29.000
<v Speaker 1>overstocked a lot of our timber is these days, and

0:54:29.040 --> 0:54:31.600
<v Speaker 1>the fuel loads that are in there because they haven't burned.

0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:33.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, historically a lot of Arkansas would have been

0:54:34.120 --> 0:54:37.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of woodlands, savannah type habitats particularly and your your uplands,

0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:39.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, the top of these hills and stuff like

0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:42.480
<v Speaker 1>that that you know, fires would have moved through frequently

0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:44.560
<v Speaker 1>and it would have reduced some of that naturally. But

0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:47.880
<v Speaker 1>now we have so much you know, over stocked timber,

0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:50.919
<v Speaker 1>a lot of just dead decame fuel because we spent

0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.200
<v Speaker 1>years and years and years trying to keep those fires

0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 1>at bay. You know, if we did have a wildfire

0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.040
<v Speaker 1>pop up, you try to you know, knock it out,

0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:00.200
<v Speaker 1>stomp it out as quick as you could, so it

0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:02.239
<v Speaker 1>didn't burn a lot of acres. In reality, that probably

0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:04.000
<v Speaker 1>would have been have been better if you could have

0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:06.160
<v Speaker 1>just let it, let it go burn. So that time

0:55:06.200 --> 0:55:08.919
<v Speaker 1>period is just kind of when they can burn. Yeah,

0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 1>it's the best time period for burning there. So so

0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:15.360
<v Speaker 1>what you're saying is if we were managing solely for

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:18.320
<v Speaker 1>wild turkeys, we wouldn't burn during that time. Yeah, not necessarily,

0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:20.479
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and I tell managers this all the time.

0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:23.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, when we look at game fish on properties

0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:26.200
<v Speaker 1>in particular, you know, you've got to look holistically, what

0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about, what the habitats telling you. Um, you know, ideally,

0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, we burn in the dormant season, you know,

0:55:32.480 --> 0:55:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and this is you know a little bit of arbitrary,

0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:37.319
<v Speaker 1>but you know, January into mid March or something like that,

0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:39.960
<v Speaker 1>try to finish it up and then you know, now

0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:42.720
<v Speaker 1>we're starting to shift what we consider growing season fires,

0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:45.920
<v Speaker 1>which could be anywhere from mid late March, early April

0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:48.759
<v Speaker 1>all the way and through you know, October November. You know,

0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:52.120
<v Speaker 1>while those trees are still actively sending nutrients up and down,

0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:54.759
<v Speaker 1>we can still get a lot of the same benefits

0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:57.800
<v Speaker 1>of burning you know, April and May, if the conditions

0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:02.719
<v Speaker 1>were there. We can get those same benefit fits burning August, September, October,

0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:05.840
<v Speaker 1>if we can get those same weather variables in line,

0:56:05.880 --> 0:56:08.000
<v Speaker 1>so we can run the fire at that point. So

0:56:08.080 --> 0:56:10.640
<v Speaker 1>generally we we try to avoid that nesting season as

0:56:10.640 --> 0:56:13.600
<v Speaker 1>an agency. But you know, if if it comes up,

0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:15.640
<v Speaker 1>if you know, you've got to stand that's you know,

0:56:15.719 --> 0:56:18.120
<v Speaker 1>towards the end of its rotation. It needs to be burned,

0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.920
<v Speaker 1>you know. And and we're talking about it's already missed,

0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:25.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, one window, and you're saying, well, you know,

0:56:25.080 --> 0:56:27.480
<v Speaker 1>it's turkey season. You know, we we can't burn if

0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:29.200
<v Speaker 1>if you keep doing that, you know, if you never

0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.280
<v Speaker 1>get anything accomplished because you have so many different seasons.

0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:36.319
<v Speaker 1>I am, I am, you know, I tell folks all

0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:38.840
<v Speaker 1>the time. You know, if if that conditions allow, you know,

0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:40.560
<v Speaker 1>and you've got the burn weather, because you know, not

0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:43.400
<v Speaker 1>every day is is equal when it comes to the

0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:46.520
<v Speaker 1>weather for burning. You've got to have certain variables I'll

0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:48.080
<v Speaker 1>have to line up. So if you hit one of

0:56:48.120 --> 0:56:50.680
<v Speaker 1>those days, you better take advantage of it, because the

0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:53.560
<v Speaker 1>idea that if you don't burn that and then you know,

0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:55.279
<v Speaker 1>you hit later in the fall, you may not be

0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:57.120
<v Speaker 1>able to burn it then. And now we're talking a year,

0:56:57.600 --> 0:56:59.600
<v Speaker 1>two years post when you could have burned an Now

0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:02.480
<v Speaker 1>we're we're outside of the usable space, you know, for

0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:04.239
<v Speaker 1>a turkey nowt so thick that they don't want to

0:57:04.239 --> 0:57:06.400
<v Speaker 1>touch it, and it may end up costing you a

0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:09.200
<v Speaker 1>lot more money to go in there with herbicide or

0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:11.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, bringing in something to masticate, you know, mulch

0:57:11.760 --> 0:57:13.680
<v Speaker 1>that that timber to get it back to a point

0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:15.400
<v Speaker 1>where you could roll a fire through it. And that's

0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:17.200
<v Speaker 1>gonna be a lot more expensive, and it may take

0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:19.680
<v Speaker 1>years in the budget to be able to afford to

0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:22.040
<v Speaker 1>do that and have it have it set aside. So

0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:23.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of a sudden, you went from having

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.160
<v Speaker 1>something that yeah, you may have lost one nest this year,

0:57:26.840 --> 0:57:29.640
<v Speaker 1>but now you've instead of burning it, now you have

0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:32.320
<v Speaker 1>no nests in it for the next handful of years.

0:57:32.680 --> 0:57:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Or the predation rate on those ones is so much

0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:38.240
<v Speaker 1>higher that by getting it done, you lose that nest. Yeah,

0:57:38.400 --> 0:57:42.280
<v Speaker 1>this year, but hopefully you've benefited the same block of

0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:44.760
<v Speaker 1>woods every single year, right, I mean there, And so

0:57:44.800 --> 0:57:46.480
<v Speaker 1>that's the other thing to think about. It's like, yeah,

0:57:46.560 --> 0:57:50.360
<v Speaker 1>maybe the south side of that mountain this year gets burned.

0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:53.080
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, maybe maybe a turkey loses her nest and

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:57.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe she's unsuccessful nest and later worst case scenario, but

0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:00.520
<v Speaker 1>they're not gonna burn it for another how many years?

0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:02.920
<v Speaker 1>What's the cycle on some of those, you know, depending here,

0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:05.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, it could be two to three years down

0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:07.480
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of this, particularly the Gulf coastal flane

0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:09.840
<v Speaker 1>and and maybe in some of the washtaws and the

0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:11.600
<v Speaker 1>pine blue stem. You know, you get up here in

0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.920
<v Speaker 1>the Ozarks, you're probably talking three, four or five years.

0:58:14.920 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 1>You get spread out a little bit for four years

0:58:17.200 --> 0:58:22.320
<v Speaker 1>of greatly improved habitat for them to have great potential

0:58:22.400 --> 0:58:25.680
<v Speaker 1>nesting with no fires at all. Right, Yeah, since I'm

0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the fall guy for people who who who are unaware

0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:31.280
<v Speaker 1>of a fire extinguisher here if you need it? All right, So,

0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:33.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess how long does it take for a turkey

0:58:33.880 --> 0:58:36.200
<v Speaker 1>to settle into a place? Like? Is four years enough

0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:38.160
<v Speaker 1>time for a turkey to say? Oh? I like that?

0:58:38.240 --> 0:58:41.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean that is help? What is it's almost immediate?

0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean those birds, I mean, if they typically their

0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:45.960
<v Speaker 1>home range isn't probably gonna get changed all that much

0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:48.480
<v Speaker 1>as a fire that's going out, they'll move out. But

0:58:48.600 --> 0:58:50.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm honestly that they move right back in. I mean

0:58:50.560 --> 0:58:52.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the research that Mike and a lot

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:54.760
<v Speaker 1>of other folks have done in the southeastern recent years,

0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, those birds are moving back in there. You.

0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's something like fifty percent of the birds

0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:01.439
<v Speaker 1>that we've had marked move back into a burned area

0:59:01.520 --> 0:59:04.120
<v Speaker 1>within forty eight hours and by you know, the end

0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:09.160
<v Speaker 1>of a week. It's like, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

0:59:08.240 --> 0:59:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Ye do other states, And I know we can't compare

0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:15.320
<v Speaker 1>it to not apples to apples. I'm just curious, mainly

0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:18.240
<v Speaker 1>because I'd like to figure out the turkey situation, because

0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:21.240
<v Speaker 1>it is the real stress is it's the end of

0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:23.200
<v Speaker 1>April and we don't have a Turkey in the Newcomes.

0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Miss wakes up all their in Turkey season and it's like,

0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:29.080
<v Speaker 1>are you gonna go kill a Turkey today? And I

0:59:29.160 --> 0:59:31.520
<v Speaker 1>usually he's like no, and it really bothers her. It

0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:34.240
<v Speaker 1>doesn't that why I'm having to provide your family Rainbow Trout.

0:59:36.600 --> 0:59:39.440
<v Speaker 1>It's true. It's true. Do other states? There are other

0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:42.520
<v Speaker 1>states seeing a decline like we are for sure? For sure?

0:59:42.680 --> 0:59:45.160
<v Speaker 1>And are they Burnie, Yes, yes, I mean a lot

0:59:45.200 --> 0:59:46.920
<v Speaker 1>of a lot of those states. You know this. Missy's

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.080
<v Speaker 1>gonna have it all figured out. She's gonna tell us

0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:51.560
<v Speaker 1>like something that Mike Chamberlain and Jeremy never thought of.

0:59:51.640 --> 0:59:54.240
<v Speaker 1>She's gonna be like, well, why don't you just we

0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.240
<v Speaker 1>don't even know what that X is? Yeah, didn't you

0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.919
<v Speaker 1>listen to the podcast with Mike Chamberlain? You didn't? Did

1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that was two podcasts you weren't on the render. Yeah,

1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:07.040
<v Speaker 1>so we talked all about the southeast decline of Turkey.

1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Isaac take that out? Uh um, Okay, that's great, Burns

1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:17.919
<v Speaker 1>got it, got it? Yeah? My, So that's good. Number two,

1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:22.960
<v Speaker 1>bats bag limits. Is it just a social issue that

1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:26.320
<v Speaker 1>we don't just say one Turkey? By social you mean

1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:31.840
<v Speaker 1>like political? I mean, is it. Yes, people, I think

1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:33.760
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of people that that look at bag

1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:36.080
<v Speaker 1>limits like they're the the end all be all, like

1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:38.280
<v Speaker 1>if if we we do this. You know, here in Arkansas,

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:40.760
<v Speaker 1>we've got a relatively conservative bag limit already. We have,

1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:42.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's a two turkey bag limit in the state.

1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Got other states in the southeast that have made some

1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:47.600
<v Speaker 1>changes recently, but a lot of them have had three, four,

1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:53.680
<v Speaker 1>even five until recently I think just I think just

1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:56.480
<v Speaker 1>this year they moved from five down to four. But

1:00:56.520 --> 1:00:59.240
<v Speaker 1>it's still, you know, relatively high number. And you know,

1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:02.080
<v Speaker 1>when you start getting up three, four or five birds

1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:04.480
<v Speaker 1>and your bag limit, you know, you can have potentially

1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:07.680
<v Speaker 1>a disproportionate amount of your harvest come come from those

1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 1>folks that are harvesting much more than two. But you know,

1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:14.720
<v Speaker 1>here in Arkansas we've had you know, two bird bag

1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.400
<v Speaker 1>limits for for many years, even three, you know, going

1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:20.880
<v Speaker 1>back into the seventies, eighties, nine, early nineties, you know

1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:23.840
<v Speaker 1>around there in portions of the state, um particularly like

1:01:23.840 --> 1:01:27.600
<v Speaker 1>along the Mississippi River, some areas in the Washingtas and

1:01:28.000 --> 1:01:29.520
<v Speaker 1>you know the reality is, you know, that was all

1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:33.320
<v Speaker 1>occurring while populations were rebounding you know, being actively stocked.

1:01:33.320 --> 1:01:36.520
<v Speaker 1>So we had a higher bag limit earlier when there

1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:38.360
<v Speaker 1>were a lot less turkey hunters on the landscape, but

1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:41.840
<v Speaker 1>when those turkeys were you know, just basically becoming kind

1:01:41.840 --> 1:01:45.080
<v Speaker 1>of whole, you know, coming back around. Um, you know,

1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I look at it now, nine percent of our harvest

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:51.400
<v Speaker 1>in Arkansas comes from folks filling just that first tag. Okay,

1:01:51.480 --> 1:01:54.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a great, Okay, that's that's the kind of reasoning

1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:56.640
<v Speaker 1>I needed to hear. That makes sense. That's like, not

1:01:56.760 --> 1:01:59.680
<v Speaker 1>a ton of people are killing two turkeys. Yeah, not

1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:01.480
<v Speaker 1>not at all. I mean in general. I mean we're

1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.000
<v Speaker 1>talking with the recent years where our harvest has been

1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:06.560
<v Speaker 1>in the seven eight thousand kind of range. We're looking

1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:09.160
<v Speaker 1>at seven hundred eight hundred turkeys, you know, out of

1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:13.560
<v Speaker 1>the entire harvest being somebody's second bird. And you know,

1:02:13.560 --> 1:02:16.400
<v Speaker 1>there's been interesting. Yeah, there's there's been times in the past,

1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:19.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, the nineties, particularly Washtas. I looked at this

1:02:19.320 --> 1:02:22.200
<v Speaker 1>just recently because we do have a proposal out there

1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:24.280
<v Speaker 1>right now to to move to a one bird limit.

1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:26.640
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't something that the Turkey program put out there,

1:02:26.640 --> 1:02:28.480
<v Speaker 1>but it was something that came from some public comment.

1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:30.760
<v Speaker 1>The agency decided to put it out for public comment

1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:33.440
<v Speaker 1>during a recent REIG survey. So what I did was

1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:37.480
<v Speaker 1>I look back at these seven or so counties in

1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:39.919
<v Speaker 1>the in the Washtas where they went from a three

1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:42.440
<v Speaker 1>bird bag limit to a two bird bag limit, to

1:02:42.560 --> 1:02:44.440
<v Speaker 1>a one bird bag limit and then back to a

1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:46.320
<v Speaker 1>two bird bag of lim whis which we have still

1:02:46.360 --> 1:02:49.520
<v Speaker 1>through today. And what you see is, you know, populations

1:02:49.520 --> 1:02:51.880
<v Speaker 1>were declining a bit. You know, reproduction have been kind

1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:54.800
<v Speaker 1>of poor in general terms. When you look back now,

1:02:55.240 --> 1:02:58.120
<v Speaker 1>you know the reproduction compared to now to back then

1:02:58.160 --> 1:03:01.440
<v Speaker 1>it usually yeah pretty good. Uh, you know it's declining.

1:03:01.600 --> 1:03:04.439
<v Speaker 1>You shall harvest the climb. So the institute a two

1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:08.320
<v Speaker 1>bird bag limit, population continued to decline or the harvest

1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:10.120
<v Speaker 1>continue to climb, but you moved to a one bird

1:03:10.160 --> 1:03:12.600
<v Speaker 1>bag limit. There really wasn't any difference between those two

1:03:12.680 --> 1:03:15.280
<v Speaker 1>year two bird limit ears and that one bird limit

1:03:15.320 --> 1:03:18.440
<v Speaker 1>ear because again there's there's not that many more birds

1:03:18.480 --> 1:03:21.320
<v Speaker 1>getting shot because somebody's killing a second one and in

1:03:21.360 --> 1:03:25.200
<v Speaker 1>most cases you're probably just seeing other people fill that tag.

1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:27.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, if you were restricted to one, you didn't

1:03:27.040 --> 1:03:28.800
<v Speaker 1>get to go, but you know you took your son

1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:33.400
<v Speaker 1>out Okay, man, that's yeah, that's a great, that's a great.

1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:36.240
<v Speaker 1>That's a great analogy. Now I can see if you

1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:39.919
<v Speaker 1>had a five bird bag limit and guys really had

1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:43.440
<v Speaker 1>some you know, their spots dialed in and had the time,

1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:46.520
<v Speaker 1>and we're really good turkey hunters, like you could really

1:03:46.800 --> 1:03:48.800
<v Speaker 1>hurt something. But with a two bird I see how

1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:53.120
<v Speaker 1>that the possibilities are less for for hurting. And man,

1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I like that. I don't know, you know, I put

1:03:55.720 --> 1:03:57.400
<v Speaker 1>on that survey that I would be fine with a

1:03:57.400 --> 1:04:00.520
<v Speaker 1>one bird bag limit, like I just wouldn't be a problem,

1:04:00.520 --> 1:04:02.920
<v Speaker 1>just thinking, you know, we've got to sacrifice some for

1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:05.680
<v Speaker 1>the resource. But I'm one of those guys that I mean,

1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to be honest with you, it's been a long time

1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:10.520
<v Speaker 1>since I've killed two turkeys in Arkansas, and so you know,

1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:12.680
<v Speaker 1>maybe to me that's not a big deal, but yeah,

1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:15.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean you think about the opportunity that's lost to

1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:17.200
<v Speaker 1>that point you go from two to one, you know,

1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Like for me, I was I was successful this year.

1:04:19.720 --> 1:04:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I went an open to day. I was lucky enough

1:04:21.200 --> 1:04:29.160
<v Speaker 1>I got a bird. Guy of Shring tied up there

1:04:29.200 --> 1:04:30.520
<v Speaker 1>for me so I could got to make sure I

1:04:30.520 --> 1:04:32.360
<v Speaker 1>got a bird. This year, I probably had a live

1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:36.160
<v Speaker 1>hand decoy. But I mean, now, you know, obviously we've

1:04:36.200 --> 1:04:38.200
<v Speaker 1>we've kind of limited that harvest in the front end

1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:40.720
<v Speaker 1>of the season. So when we consider, you know, some

1:04:40.800 --> 1:04:43.040
<v Speaker 1>of that harvest could be more impactful to to that

1:04:43.120 --> 1:04:45.720
<v Speaker 1>breeding chronology, we tried to limit that push some of

1:04:45.720 --> 1:04:47.560
<v Speaker 1>that back a little bit too later in the season

1:04:47.560 --> 1:04:50.120
<v Speaker 1>when it may be less impactful. So you know, I've

1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:52.880
<v Speaker 1>got that bird, I'm out of the woods for seven days.

1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.600
<v Speaker 1>There's a new there's a new regulation misty where if

1:04:56.640 --> 1:04:59.080
<v Speaker 1>you kill a turkey you can't kill another one. If

1:04:59.120 --> 1:05:02.280
<v Speaker 1>you kill one the first week, any time within the

1:05:02.280 --> 1:05:04.600
<v Speaker 1>first seven days, you can't go until basically the eight

1:05:04.680 --> 1:05:07.240
<v Speaker 1>day of the season. So this morning, if I killed

1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:09.080
<v Speaker 1>one on the first day, which I wasn't even in

1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the country, I couldn't hunted until later in the week

1:05:11.680 --> 1:05:14.680
<v Speaker 1>because that that kind of takes away a little bit

1:05:14.720 --> 1:05:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of an opportunity for a second bird. But if you

1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:19.920
<v Speaker 1>could take somebody else hunting, like if I had some

1:05:19.960 --> 1:05:22.600
<v Speaker 1>birds dialed in, I mean that second day, I could

1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:29.000
<v Speaker 1>have taken my son or taken Josh. Josh is just

1:05:29.000 --> 1:05:31.840
<v Speaker 1>sitting nowhere there. You can't go turkey out. You mustache.

1:05:31.960 --> 1:05:34.160
<v Speaker 1>I have a stick on breaks up your outline. Turkeys

1:05:34.200 --> 1:05:37.320
<v Speaker 1>recognized human faith. If you have a big line across

1:05:37.360 --> 1:05:43.560
<v Speaker 1>the it doesn't work. I don't know. Okay, So that

1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:47.920
<v Speaker 1>that that clears it up with me on on bag limits. Um,

1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:51.120
<v Speaker 1>it's like a the whole thing is sort of like

1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:53.880
<v Speaker 1>all the problems in life. Right now, we assume the

1:05:53.960 --> 1:05:56.880
<v Speaker 1>simplest you know, you want to make it a really

1:05:56.960 --> 1:06:00.160
<v Speaker 1>simple it's because of this, but in reality, everything's lot

1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:02.920
<v Speaker 1>more comment it's a you know, like Chamberlain said, like

1:06:02.920 --> 1:06:05.880
<v Speaker 1>everybody said, it's death by a thousand cuts, and and

1:06:05.920 --> 1:06:08.720
<v Speaker 1>like I always go back to, you can't trust the

1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:11.920
<v Speaker 1>ground nesting bird because they're they're going to create problems

1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:15.240
<v Speaker 1>for you. There's just so many reasons why ground nesting

1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:19.800
<v Speaker 1>birds have trouble but also can do really great. But okay,

1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:22.120
<v Speaker 1>let me ask you this, and this is uh, like,

1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:26.280
<v Speaker 1>why are our turkeys declining? Like okay, off the record,

1:06:26.320 --> 1:06:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna I'm gonna turn this off. Okay, wink wink.

1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Why what do you what's what is I mean? We

1:06:35.520 --> 1:06:39.720
<v Speaker 1>already know everything that like everybody said, you know, it's

1:06:39.800 --> 1:06:42.640
<v Speaker 1>it's just like death by thousand cuts. It's can be

1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:47.520
<v Speaker 1>bag limits, it can be predation. It's the the forest regime.

1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:52.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't know why. Why, what's the real reason? Yeah,

1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:56.000
<v Speaker 1>what's the what are you hiding from us? Jerry? I

1:06:56.000 --> 1:06:57.920
<v Speaker 1>wish it was as easy to just pulling something out

1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:00.040
<v Speaker 1>of the bag of tricks. I'm saying, yeah, this is it,

1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:02.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, that that smoking gun, that silver bullet, that

1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:05.120
<v Speaker 1>would fix everything. I mean, I think there's a lot

1:07:05.160 --> 1:07:07.600
<v Speaker 1>of stuff that's going into what's what's gone on here

1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.320
<v Speaker 1>in the state in Arkansas, UM, you know, coming in

1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:13.080
<v Speaker 1>from that outside perspective, not being from here. You know,

1:07:13.120 --> 1:07:16.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm thankful that I I didn't experience turkey populations in

1:07:16.120 --> 1:07:18.000
<v Speaker 1>the early two thousands. You know, I was alive, but

1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:20.439
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't hunting turkeys at that point. I wasn't hunting

1:07:20.440 --> 1:07:23.960
<v Speaker 1>turkeys in the South in particular. So you know, I

1:07:24.000 --> 1:07:27.320
<v Speaker 1>started hunting turkeys in my mid twenties, twenty three, twenty four,

1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>somewhere in that ballpark. And I've never had a bad

1:07:30.400 --> 1:07:32.840
<v Speaker 1>turkey hunt. And I've never had a bad turkey season

1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:35.760
<v Speaker 1>since I started hunting, mostly public land, but I never

1:07:35.840 --> 1:07:37.760
<v Speaker 1>had that experience. You know, I hear from most folks

1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:39.200
<v Speaker 1>that I used to go out to the spot and

1:07:39.200 --> 1:07:41.640
<v Speaker 1>I'd hear twelve birds gobl on the ridge that I've

1:07:41.680 --> 1:07:43.240
<v Speaker 1>never had that. I mean, I've had some spots where

1:07:43.280 --> 1:07:46.360
<v Speaker 1>I've heard three, four or five something like that, but

1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:48.680
<v Speaker 1>but still all in these recent years. And you know,

1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I kill some, I don't kill some of other chances,

1:07:51.280 --> 1:07:54.240
<v Speaker 1>but I've heard birds goblin. It's it's great experience. But

1:07:54.560 --> 1:07:57.000
<v Speaker 1>if some of it you're dealing with that expectation that

1:07:57.080 --> 1:07:59.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, you've got folks that that started turkey hunting

1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.560
<v Speaker 1>right there when things were perfect, those populations were at

1:08:03.600 --> 1:08:07.600
<v Speaker 1>their highest point, but it may not have been you know, sustainable,

1:08:07.640 --> 1:08:10.440
<v Speaker 1>that may not have been the reality. In particularly what

1:08:10.480 --> 1:08:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I look at here in the state is you know,

1:08:12.560 --> 1:08:14.600
<v Speaker 1>thinking about the number of turkey hunters that we were

1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:17.000
<v Speaker 1>on the landscape. You know, you think about you know,

1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:19.000
<v Speaker 1>if you're around you're hunting in the eighties, maybe even

1:08:19.000 --> 1:08:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the early nineties. You know, a lot of folks that

1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:23.080
<v Speaker 1>I talked to the count on one hand, the number

1:08:23.120 --> 1:08:25.280
<v Speaker 1>of other turkey hunters they even knew, you know, they

1:08:25.280 --> 1:08:28.120
<v Speaker 1>were hunting in the area that they hunted, and you know,

1:08:28.160 --> 1:08:29.920
<v Speaker 1>you get into the late nineties, you know, you were

1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:33.599
<v Speaker 1>talking with Will and the previous podcasts and thinking about

1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:35.360
<v Speaker 1>the truth and you know, all of that kind of

1:08:35.360 --> 1:08:38.560
<v Speaker 1>blowing up and people just eating all that information, explosion

1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:42.840
<v Speaker 1>of turkey hunting knowledge and people wanting to become turkey hunters. Yeah,

1:08:42.840 --> 1:08:44.160
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like what they talked about in the

1:08:44.160 --> 1:08:47.439
<v Speaker 1>waterfowl world, like this duck dynasty bump, you know, and

1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:50.479
<v Speaker 1>hunter numbers. And I think we saw that at that

1:08:50.520 --> 1:08:52.800
<v Speaker 1>time when things were peaking. And then you know, when

1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:55.840
<v Speaker 1>you look back in time, you know, I think Mike

1:08:55.920 --> 1:08:58.400
<v Speaker 1>brought this up where you know, it was kind of

1:08:58.479 --> 1:09:01.520
<v Speaker 1>right there under our fingers, but we didn't really recognize

1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:03.280
<v Speaker 1>what was happening at the time because a couple of

1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:05.320
<v Speaker 1>bad years in a row wasn't wasn't that big of

1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:07.280
<v Speaker 1>a deal in the grand scheme of things at that time.

1:09:07.320 --> 1:09:09.680
<v Speaker 1>But now twenty years later, you know, we can look

1:09:09.680 --> 1:09:12.400
<v Speaker 1>back and see how long that actually, you know, continue

1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:16.559
<v Speaker 1>to occur in reproduction kept declining, and you know here

1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:19.639
<v Speaker 1>in the state, you know, you saw the agency look

1:09:19.680 --> 1:09:22.120
<v Speaker 1>at how good populations were doing, look at the interests.

1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:24.800
<v Speaker 1>They started adding more days to the season. So you

1:09:24.840 --> 1:09:27.880
<v Speaker 1>went from you know, the mid eighties through the early

1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:29.960
<v Speaker 1>two thousands, you were looking I think we had about

1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:32.439
<v Speaker 1>twenty three twenty four day long season about where we're

1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.320
<v Speaker 1>at now with the youth hunt, and all of a

1:09:35.360 --> 1:09:38.599
<v Speaker 1>sudden you started going up into thirty thirty five days,

1:09:38.680 --> 1:09:41.840
<v Speaker 1>thirty nine days by two thousand three, two thousand and four,

1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:45.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's an incredible amount of pressure to put on

1:09:45.360 --> 1:09:47.720
<v Speaker 1>that that population and in a short period of time.

1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:49.360
<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of birds, but there's a lot

1:09:49.400 --> 1:09:51.840
<v Speaker 1>more turkey hunters coming into the fold at that time,

1:09:52.280 --> 1:09:54.760
<v Speaker 1>so people were really being successful. And but I think

1:09:54.840 --> 1:09:56.880
<v Speaker 1>what we do was the overshot. You know, at that

1:09:56.960 --> 1:09:59.120
<v Speaker 1>period of time, it's not likely that you know, I

1:09:59.160 --> 1:10:00.960
<v Speaker 1>think we we look out there and we say, okay,

1:10:01.280 --> 1:10:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, harvest is estimated at roughly ten percent of

1:10:03.720 --> 1:10:06.559
<v Speaker 1>your population, and so you extrapolate out from that number

1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:09.960
<v Speaker 1>what you anticipate your population was. And we would have said, okay,

1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:13.000
<v Speaker 1>we were nearly two hundred thousand turkeys back around that time.

1:10:13.640 --> 1:10:15.759
<v Speaker 1>But if we were over harvesting them at that period

1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:18.000
<v Speaker 1>of time, it's it's unlikely that we were ever truly

1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:21.000
<v Speaker 1>that that hive of population. We had a better population

1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:23.800
<v Speaker 1>than we do now, but it's hard to go back

1:10:23.800 --> 1:10:25.760
<v Speaker 1>and look at that and then compare it to now

1:10:25.800 --> 1:10:28.799
<v Speaker 1>and say, okay, did we drop sixty to sixty five percent?

1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:30.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, like a lot of people say, when you're

1:10:30.840 --> 1:10:33.800
<v Speaker 1>just looking at those harvest numbers, because you know, you're

1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:36.800
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at the harvest number and that's one static number,

1:10:36.840 --> 1:10:38.519
<v Speaker 1>but you're not looking at all the things that go

1:10:38.520 --> 1:10:40.599
<v Speaker 1>go into that, so you're not looking at those seasoned

1:10:40.760 --> 1:10:45.519
<v Speaker 1>length fluctuations. You're not looking at bag limits like you know, Arkansas,

1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Mississippi only two states out there that restrict jake harvest.

1:10:49.280 --> 1:10:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Prior to two thousand, nearly forty of our harvest was

1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.160
<v Speaker 1>made up of jake's here in the state. UM it's

1:10:55.200 --> 1:10:58.519
<v Speaker 1>credible numbers. And then you get from two thousand to

1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:02.000
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and ten, we restricted that the one jake

1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:05.120
<v Speaker 1>for every hunter. That dropped that percentage from forty down

1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:08.600
<v Speaker 1>to about twenty. And then in two thousand eleven we

1:11:08.640 --> 1:11:11.639
<v Speaker 1>instituted the no jake rule, so only youth hunters had

1:11:11.640 --> 1:11:14.240
<v Speaker 1>that exception. They could kill one jake. That's dropped that

1:11:14.320 --> 1:11:16.559
<v Speaker 1>number even further. Now we're down to four percent of

1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:19.639
<v Speaker 1>our harvest each years made up of jakes. Ten years

1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:23.840
<v Speaker 1>it has now no jake policy has been successful and

1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:27.040
<v Speaker 1>at least protecting Jakes and at least protecting Jake's well.

1:11:27.240 --> 1:11:31.120
<v Speaker 1>The unfortunate reality is we don't know early on what

1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:34.320
<v Speaker 1>those survival rates looked like. We recently finished up some

1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:37.080
<v Speaker 1>research here in the last few years that looked at

1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:40.920
<v Speaker 1>the impact of that regulation. We're looking at survival of

1:11:41.160 --> 1:11:44.080
<v Speaker 1>adult and juvenile males, and we were seeing about nine

1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:47.360
<v Speaker 1>survival of those Jake's. You know, very few, if any,

1:11:47.439 --> 1:11:49.760
<v Speaker 1>were actually even shot during the season. Most of them

1:11:49.760 --> 1:11:52.720
<v Speaker 1>were just dying a natural mortality, which isn't much. You know,

1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:55.360
<v Speaker 1>they have pretty good survival, you know, in the absence

1:11:55.360 --> 1:11:58.200
<v Speaker 1>of hunting pressure, once they get about four weeks older,

1:11:58.240 --> 1:11:59.880
<v Speaker 1>so I mean, you get past that first month and

1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you know they're fairly golden. But what we're seeing now

1:12:03.240 --> 1:12:05.000
<v Speaker 1>is that, you know, our two year olds and stuff,

1:12:05.000 --> 1:12:09.479
<v Speaker 1>we're hammering them about thirty percent survival um once they

1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:13.680
<v Speaker 1>hit two. Pressure off the Jake's. It's all going to

1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:15.439
<v Speaker 1>the two years, the two year olds, and then then

1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:17.559
<v Speaker 1>you start getting the three four plus year old birds,

1:12:17.560 --> 1:12:19.840
<v Speaker 1>and you jump back up about fifty and you think

1:12:19.840 --> 1:12:22.000
<v Speaker 1>about it, those birds are they've been through the game

1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:23.719
<v Speaker 1>a time or two at that point, they're the smarter

1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:25.479
<v Speaker 1>ones out there there. You know, they don't just come

1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:27.360
<v Speaker 1>running into your calling like you know a two year

1:12:27.400 --> 1:12:29.720
<v Speaker 1>old would do. You know, they're hard gobble and you

1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>know the hunts that you get really really excited about,

1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:35.120
<v Speaker 1>and because because I just come in that they act

1:12:35.160 --> 1:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the way you know, most people think that the birds

1:12:37.120 --> 1:12:41.040
<v Speaker 1>should um. But what we don't know is back prior,

1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:43.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, back when we could kill two of those birds,

1:12:43.640 --> 1:12:45.720
<v Speaker 1>you know what those survival rates look like. You know,

1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:48.720
<v Speaker 1>did we instead of nine survival of Jake? Did we

1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:52.559
<v Speaker 1>see sixty seventy survival of Jake? But what about those

1:12:52.560 --> 1:12:55.000
<v Speaker 1>two year olds that that then increased that two year

1:12:55.040 --> 1:12:57.559
<v Speaker 1>old survival because somebody, somebody shot at Jake and they

1:12:57.560 --> 1:13:00.400
<v Speaker 1>couldn't kill another one today, So the law young beard

1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:02.000
<v Speaker 1>that may have been in there with them, you know,

1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:05.559
<v Speaker 1>survived another day or maybe the season, and so maybe

1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:07.840
<v Speaker 1>their survival actually went up a little bit. And you know,

1:13:07.920 --> 1:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>is that biologically significant to see see those fluctuations, But

1:13:12.000 --> 1:13:14.000
<v Speaker 1>but we don't know what those those numbers were like,

1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:16.080
<v Speaker 1>So it's hard to say. It's in the one hand

1:13:16.120 --> 1:13:20.800
<v Speaker 1>that that regulation has has worked. It generated the idea

1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:23.599
<v Speaker 1>that we're seeing more of those Jakes survived that first year,

1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:26.719
<v Speaker 1>but we don't know, you know, how it truly compares

1:13:26.760 --> 1:13:29.439
<v Speaker 1>to what our earlier regulations were like and whether or

1:13:29.439 --> 1:13:33.160
<v Speaker 1>not that that's a problem or not. So do you

1:13:33.200 --> 1:13:35.600
<v Speaker 1>think that, uh, are we ever going to get our

1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:38.120
<v Speaker 1>turkeys back? I mean, like so if this is part

1:13:38.160 --> 1:13:41.920
<v Speaker 1>of a cycle, and also part of you know, part

1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:43.920
<v Speaker 1>of it is just there's not as many places for

1:13:44.200 --> 1:13:48.599
<v Speaker 1>turkeys to be, but that doesn't fully make sense for like,

1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:50.320
<v Speaker 1>like if you just took national forest, like we have

1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:53.840
<v Speaker 1>the same amount of National forest, and there's some interior

1:13:54.200 --> 1:13:57.040
<v Speaker 1>sections of the National forests that probably aren't really affected

1:13:57.080 --> 1:14:01.519
<v Speaker 1>by the encroachment of civilization. I'm kind of thinking about

1:14:01.520 --> 1:14:04.600
<v Speaker 1>this idea that habitat is being lost, but in a

1:14:04.640 --> 1:14:08.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of places, habitat necessarily wouldn't be lost. It's not

1:14:08.439 --> 1:14:11.320
<v Speaker 1>being lost, you know outright. You know, like there's still

1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:15.000
<v Speaker 1>forested landscape, but the condition of that forested landscape is

1:14:15.000 --> 1:14:17.280
<v Speaker 1>is different than potentially it has been in years past.

1:14:17.760 --> 1:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>That's not as as desirable from a Turkey standpoint. You know,

1:14:20.960 --> 1:14:23.840
<v Speaker 1>we were talking about overstock Tember. I mean just driving up,

1:14:23.880 --> 1:14:25.519
<v Speaker 1>I was driving the pig trail, you know, all my

1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:28.360
<v Speaker 1>way way up here, and you know, you're you're driving

1:14:28.360 --> 1:14:30.720
<v Speaker 1>through National Forest through there, and there's some spots here

1:14:30.760 --> 1:14:33.320
<v Speaker 1>there that look a little more woodland type condition. You

1:14:33.360 --> 1:14:35.680
<v Speaker 1>can see a little bit of understory, but most of

1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the area you're driving through there, whether it's pine hardwood,

1:14:38.960 --> 1:14:41.400
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at a lot of leaf litter, a lot

1:14:41.400 --> 1:14:44.800
<v Speaker 1>of pine straw, very little understory vegetation. So you know,

1:14:44.800 --> 1:14:47.519
<v Speaker 1>a turkey can still nest in there, but there's not

1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:51.000
<v Speaker 1>really it's not quality nesting habitats still gonna be a

1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:54.439
<v Speaker 1>little more vulnerable to two predators. It's easier for them

1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:56.519
<v Speaker 1>to see here potentially. But then on top of that,

1:14:56.560 --> 1:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>there's there's not really good brooderer and habitat. There's not

1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:03.320
<v Speaker 1>that that growing lush green vegetation that's you know, just

1:15:03.439 --> 1:15:05.759
<v Speaker 1>low enough off the ground that it can hide upol

1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:08.160
<v Speaker 1>the hand can see over it. And there's lots of insects.

1:15:08.200 --> 1:15:10.600
<v Speaker 1>There's not a lot of that out there. And you know,

1:15:10.640 --> 1:15:13.479
<v Speaker 1>you see that across the lot of and we had

1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:16.360
<v Speaker 1>that years ago, I'm guessing, you know, I mean, that's

1:15:16.400 --> 1:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>me not being here in the state, but I think

1:15:18.160 --> 1:15:21.240
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirty forty years ago you saw a different management.

1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:23.240
<v Speaker 1>You know in some of those areas. You know, I

1:15:23.600 --> 1:15:28.040
<v Speaker 1>look nowadays at at how a lot of agencies operate,

1:15:28.120 --> 1:15:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and we we've seen a lot of reductions in field

1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:33.400
<v Speaker 1>staff and things like that where you know, even particular

1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:35.679
<v Speaker 1>here you look at a lot of our national forest lands,

1:15:36.040 --> 1:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>we've got a lot of conglomerates of ranger districts. You know,

1:15:39.560 --> 1:15:43.400
<v Speaker 1>in areas that used to have um, three separate ranger

1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:46.640
<v Speaker 1>districts with three separate staff that all had you know,

1:15:46.720 --> 1:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>responsibilities for a much smaller acres. Now you've got all

1:15:49.920 --> 1:15:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of those in one single district with about a third

1:15:53.000 --> 1:15:55.400
<v Speaker 1>of the staff that they once had. And there but

1:15:55.479 --> 1:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>now they're responsible for three times the acreage that they

1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:00.120
<v Speaker 1>used to be. And you know, I think that all

1:16:00.160 --> 1:16:03.160
<v Speaker 1>starts putting challenges on things. That's that's part of that.

1:16:03.200 --> 1:16:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I just don't understand. It's like, how is the habitat

1:16:07.160 --> 1:16:09.960
<v Speaker 1>so much different now than it was at the peak

1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:14.240
<v Speaker 1>you know of Turkey populations that then And I mean

1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I think you answered it is that there's just a

1:16:16.880 --> 1:16:19.799
<v Speaker 1>thousand different things. I mean, the forests are twenty years older.

1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:26.400
<v Speaker 1>There's uh, there is differences in management of stuff, and

1:16:26.439 --> 1:16:29.920
<v Speaker 1>it may not be that significant from from that time period,

1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:32.280
<v Speaker 1>but you think we were kind of leading up to it.

1:16:32.320 --> 1:16:34.120
<v Speaker 1>So a lot of the stuff that produced the birds

1:16:34.160 --> 1:16:36.479
<v Speaker 1>that were on the landscape twenty years ago would have

1:16:36.479 --> 1:16:39.240
<v Speaker 1>been just a few more years before that. So you know,

1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:43.040
<v Speaker 1>over time, you know, talking about a forty year fifty

1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:46.760
<v Speaker 1>year time span, because yeah, maybe what happened forty years

1:16:46.760 --> 1:16:50.080
<v Speaker 1>ago produced the birds that we had twenty years ago,

1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>but then that faded away. Missy if you figured this

1:16:53.640 --> 1:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>out yet, well, I do have a question. I know,

1:16:56.040 --> 1:16:59.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm a little bit more familiar with bear and and

1:16:59.240 --> 1:17:01.720
<v Speaker 1>how that's by the game in fish and they go

1:17:01.800 --> 1:17:04.120
<v Speaker 1>in and they like they can tell you how many

1:17:04.160 --> 1:17:06.599
<v Speaker 1>how many babies they're having? Do you all have? Do

1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:08.920
<v Speaker 1>you met? Is there any way that you can figure

1:17:08.960 --> 1:17:11.280
<v Speaker 1>out if turkeys are laying more eggs or less eggs?

1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:13.719
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, not specifically the number of eggs. We

1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>occasionally we do research projects and they have over time.

1:17:16.840 --> 1:17:19.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, back in the nineties and in the early

1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:21.400
<v Speaker 1>to mid you know, twenty teens, we had some other

1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>research going on where they actually went out cop birds,

1:17:24.320 --> 1:17:27.920
<v Speaker 1>put transmitters on them, follow them around, and you know,

1:17:27.920 --> 1:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>they track the nesting um effort and so they go

1:17:31.360 --> 1:17:33.679
<v Speaker 1>to nest whether they're successful or not, they can count

1:17:33.680 --> 1:17:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the eggs, get all that information. To my knowledge, the

1:17:36.880 --> 1:17:39.479
<v Speaker 1>number of eggs things like that hasn't changed. I'm sure

1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:41.920
<v Speaker 1>the hat rate hasn't really changed all that much. I

1:17:41.920 --> 1:17:44.400
<v Speaker 1>think we're still seeing of the ones that are successful,

1:17:44.479 --> 1:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the the number of eggs that hatch is

1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:48.920
<v Speaker 1>usually relatively high. But what we do do, you know,

1:17:48.960 --> 1:17:50.920
<v Speaker 1>on a regular basis, and it's been going on since

1:17:50.960 --> 1:17:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the early eighties, is we do a population survey or

1:17:54.040 --> 1:17:56.919
<v Speaker 1>a lot of folks called a brood survey. So that's

1:17:56.960 --> 1:17:59.519
<v Speaker 1>historically from the eighties until just a few years ago

1:17:59.520 --> 1:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>when I came on board. That was completed by agency

1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>personnel law enforcement officers with an agency um US for

1:18:08.240 --> 1:18:11.920
<v Speaker 1>service personnel, other you know, agency partners, um fish and

1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Wildlife service folks like that. And what they do is

1:18:14.800 --> 1:18:17.639
<v Speaker 1>during the summer months June through August, they'd record all

1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:19.479
<v Speaker 1>of the turkeys that they saw. It didn't matter if

1:18:19.520 --> 1:18:21.240
<v Speaker 1>it was just a group of gobblers, it was a

1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:23.120
<v Speaker 1>hand with a group of poults, a few hands all

1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:25.960
<v Speaker 1>together alone. And what we do is we compile all

1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that information and we calculate out what's known as a

1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:31.639
<v Speaker 1>pulper hand ratio, and so we look at the number

1:18:31.680 --> 1:18:34.920
<v Speaker 1>of poults that are observed versus the number of adult

1:18:35.000 --> 1:18:37.680
<v Speaker 1>females that are observed, and we get that ratio, and

1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>you're able to look at the reproductive rate. So basically

1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:46.240
<v Speaker 1>it's just people's observations. So turkeys are pretty hard to

1:18:46.240 --> 1:18:49.160
<v Speaker 1>to gauge in terms of study like that. You probably

1:18:49.160 --> 1:18:51.959
<v Speaker 1>would have known that if you listen to the Mike Chamberlain.

1:18:52.680 --> 1:18:59.120
<v Speaker 1>We talked extensively about that. Yeah, it's a can you

1:18:59.200 --> 1:19:02.360
<v Speaker 1>imagine if the game of fish that uh turkey polt

1:19:03.000 --> 1:19:05.320
<v Speaker 1>trip like they do with the bears, remember the pictures

1:19:05.360 --> 1:19:10.040
<v Speaker 1>of everybody. Yeah, but if we did, we were Jeremy smiling,

1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>just a big cheeky grin holding a little turkey eggs,

1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:18.040
<v Speaker 1>little photos. That's probably what y'all should do. I don't

1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:20.160
<v Speaker 1>know about that. I get real words when you start

1:19:20.200 --> 1:19:25.160
<v Speaker 1>bumping hands off the nests and doing stuff like sneak

1:19:25.240 --> 1:19:28.400
<v Speaker 1>up on it, tranquil you hold the hand up by

1:19:28.439 --> 1:19:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the legs. Maybe we should bring the rocket nets back rockets. Yeah, okay,

1:19:34.439 --> 1:19:36.920
<v Speaker 1>so is this just like, are we just always gonna

1:19:36.960 --> 1:19:39.880
<v Speaker 1>have turkey numbers like we do right now? Or do

1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:42.720
<v Speaker 1>you think we're at a low a low point and

1:19:42.720 --> 1:19:45.320
<v Speaker 1>we're probably gonna bounce back up just a little bit

1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and kind of equalized. I think we have been at

1:19:49.960 --> 1:19:51.880
<v Speaker 1>a low point. I mean, you look back through time.

1:19:52.280 --> 1:19:56.519
<v Speaker 1>You know, just prior to my getting here, nineteen were

1:19:56.560 --> 1:19:59.880
<v Speaker 1>the four of the five lowest reproductive us he said

1:20:00.760 --> 1:20:12.559
<v Speaker 1>before you. But I mean a lot of this is,

1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:14.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, just obviously, you know, something that's out of

1:20:14.720 --> 1:20:16.600
<v Speaker 1>our control. A lot of times, weather and things like

1:20:16.720 --> 1:20:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that are are impacting those a lot more than everything else.

1:20:19.960 --> 1:20:23.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously habitat all those influence too, but overarching

1:20:23.439 --> 1:20:26.519
<v Speaker 1>weather patterns have been pretty poor. Lot that that period

1:20:26.560 --> 1:20:31.240
<v Speaker 1>time wet, cold, so I mean, you know poults, you know,

1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:34.000
<v Speaker 1>in that first couple of weeks of life, they can't thermoregulate,

1:20:34.120 --> 1:20:36.519
<v Speaker 1>so if they're getting their cold, they're getting wet, they're

1:20:36.560 --> 1:20:39.200
<v Speaker 1>dying a hypothermia, things like that, and you're losing a

1:20:39.200 --> 1:20:41.880
<v Speaker 1>ton of birds really really quick. Whereas when you get

1:20:41.920 --> 1:20:44.120
<v Speaker 1>to some dryer spring weather like we've actually had the

1:20:44.160 --> 1:20:46.000
<v Speaker 1>last couple of years. I was a little worried in

1:20:46.000 --> 1:20:47.880
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of that, you know, it was too

1:20:47.880 --> 1:20:49.599
<v Speaker 1>wet at the wrong time. But it must have hit

1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:51.880
<v Speaker 1>just right within a lot of our hatching, because we've

1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:55.800
<v Speaker 1>had a decent hatch in one and so what I

1:20:55.840 --> 1:20:58.519
<v Speaker 1>look at is that our populations are probably coming up

1:20:58.560 --> 1:21:00.479
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. We've kind of hit that low point.

1:21:01.120 --> 1:21:04.439
<v Speaker 1>Twenty didn't help things because you know, everybody was off work,

1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:07.400
<v Speaker 1>so we kind of hammered them in that year. We

1:21:07.400 --> 1:21:10.600
<v Speaker 1>we had a higher harvest, but that was probably inflated.

1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:13.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, we probably should have been going down that year,

1:21:13.680 --> 1:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>but we spiked up. So then last year we ended

1:21:16.200 --> 1:21:19.160
<v Speaker 1>up dropping you know, pretty good amount with our harvest

1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:22.519
<v Speaker 1>could be probably overshot what kind of surplus we had

1:21:22.560 --> 1:21:24.479
<v Speaker 1>from the year before, which wouldn't have been a whole

1:21:24.520 --> 1:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>heck of a lot of birds. Whereas now, you know,

1:21:26.800 --> 1:21:29.320
<v Speaker 1>we went from those four to five poor years, had

1:21:29.360 --> 1:21:31.600
<v Speaker 1>a good year. You know, they suggest in a in

1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.720
<v Speaker 1>a good year reproduction, you can about double your population.

1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, you think about two poles per hand. You know,

1:21:37.280 --> 1:21:39.960
<v Speaker 1>she's replacing herself in another bird. You could be just

1:21:40.040 --> 1:21:43.320
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years away from numbers being pretty high. Yeah,

1:21:43.320 --> 1:21:45.120
<v Speaker 1>it really doesn't take much. I mean a lot of

1:21:45.160 --> 1:21:49.439
<v Speaker 1>the old literature talks about populations, you know, fluctuating upwards

1:21:49.479 --> 1:21:52.280
<v Speaker 1>of fifty, you know, above and below the long term,

1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:54.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of average because you have those years

1:21:54.760 --> 1:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>working that when you have an animal that has the

1:21:58.040 --> 1:22:01.400
<v Speaker 1>potential to have like seven or eight you know, maybe

1:22:01.720 --> 1:22:04.639
<v Speaker 1>you know hand, real successful hand might raise a whole

1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:10.240
<v Speaker 1>clutch of pols and you've just like doubled your population immediately.

1:22:10.600 --> 1:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>I like the I like the hope inside of that.

1:22:13.040 --> 1:22:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm going to be a turkey biologist. Now.

1:22:15.520 --> 1:22:18.160
<v Speaker 1>See like bear populations, man, you want to spike up

1:22:18.160 --> 1:22:20.960
<v Speaker 1>a bear populations, get ready to sit there and twiddle

1:22:21.040 --> 1:22:25.280
<v Speaker 1>your thumbs about twenty years because a bear doesn't reach

1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:28.639
<v Speaker 1>sexual maturity till it's about four years old, only has

1:22:29.160 --> 1:22:33.320
<v Speaker 1>cubs every other year. Jeremy's in the right business because

1:22:33.360 --> 1:22:37.320
<v Speaker 1>you could double your population, right, Jeremy, do you right place?

1:22:37.360 --> 1:22:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Strike up, Jeremy, yep, we're counting on you to double

1:22:41.760 --> 1:22:45.240
<v Speaker 1>our turkey population. You were. That's it's all on you

1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:48.799
<v Speaker 1>man on the five bird bag limits. Isn't that funny

1:22:48.840 --> 1:22:51.479
<v Speaker 1>how it's like Jeremy's here, he's he's in charge of it,

1:22:51.520 --> 1:22:55.719
<v Speaker 1>and we're like, he saw you man, make turkey hunting

1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>great again. When do you feel do you feel the pressure.

1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:01.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like, really, is there is there social pressure

1:23:01.720 --> 1:23:05.639
<v Speaker 1>on you about turkeys? We're giving you a hard time here.

1:23:05.680 --> 1:23:08.200
<v Speaker 1>We realize you're just doing your job. No, I mean

1:23:08.240 --> 1:23:11.280
<v Speaker 1>for sure. I mean, you know, I get constant contacts

1:23:11.320 --> 1:23:13.800
<v Speaker 1>from folks all the time about have you thought about

1:23:13.800 --> 1:23:15.599
<v Speaker 1>doing this? Have you thought about doing that? We need

1:23:15.640 --> 1:23:17.760
<v Speaker 1>to do what this states do and that states doing.

1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:19.880
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I take a lot of this stuff personally,

1:23:19.880 --> 1:23:21.960
<v Speaker 1>and especially when I start hearing stuff you know about

1:23:22.040 --> 1:23:25.360
<v Speaker 1>me or what we're doing, you know what we're thinking about.

1:23:26.320 --> 1:23:28.559
<v Speaker 1>It's hard not to I mean, I'm passionate about turkeys,

1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>and I just me and my wife has had a

1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:32.200
<v Speaker 1>little boy back in the fall, and you know, I'm

1:23:32.240 --> 1:23:34.640
<v Speaker 1>thinking about you know, him six seven years down the

1:23:34.720 --> 1:23:36.960
<v Speaker 1>road when he's able to hunt. You know, I'm trying

1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>to manage for him and everybody else's kids that are

1:23:39.760 --> 1:23:41.400
<v Speaker 1>out there, you know, thinking about the future and not

1:23:41.439 --> 1:23:45.040
<v Speaker 1>necessarily thinking about you know, today and just tomorrow. You

1:23:45.080 --> 1:23:46.800
<v Speaker 1>know what what we're hunting. You know, we've got to

1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:49.120
<v Speaker 1>think about what what do we need to do now

1:23:49.200 --> 1:23:51.360
<v Speaker 1>that we can set you know, the future up for

1:23:51.360 --> 1:23:55.000
<v Speaker 1>for success. And you know that may take some some

1:23:55.040 --> 1:23:58.240
<v Speaker 1>reduction and what we're able to do now for that

1:23:58.320 --> 1:24:01.320
<v Speaker 1>long term benefit. And so I've been pretty happy and

1:24:01.360 --> 1:24:03.720
<v Speaker 1>pretty excited that our agency is has been willing to,

1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:06.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, take that kind of leap of faith at

1:24:06.000 --> 1:24:08.679
<v Speaker 1>this point in time and and move in that direction

1:24:08.720 --> 1:24:11.799
<v Speaker 1>and kind of try to put the resource first and foremost,

1:24:11.840 --> 1:24:14.960
<v Speaker 1>still trying to maintain you know, some some quality opportunity

1:24:15.040 --> 1:24:17.960
<v Speaker 1>there for for folks. So you still have that, you know,

1:24:18.000 --> 1:24:21.360
<v Speaker 1>go out and experience and participate in turkey hunting. But

1:24:21.640 --> 1:24:24.519
<v Speaker 1>that hopefully that sets us up for success, you know

1:24:24.600 --> 1:24:26.439
<v Speaker 1>here down the line to where we get to a

1:24:26.479 --> 1:24:28.680
<v Speaker 1>point where we can maintain some sort of you know,

1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:30.720
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of stable regulations. We don't I don't think

1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:32.920
<v Speaker 1>we want to get to a point where we're chasing

1:24:32.920 --> 1:24:35.719
<v Speaker 1>populations Like things are great, you know, now let's let's

1:24:35.800 --> 1:24:38.040
<v Speaker 1>keep just like dialing up the pressure. Now we're gonna

1:24:38.080 --> 1:24:40.559
<v Speaker 1>add bag limits, We're gonna add time. Like I think,

1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:43.360
<v Speaker 1>what you need to do is maintain those consistent regulations,

1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:45.600
<v Speaker 1>be be a little bit conservative to make up for

1:24:45.640 --> 1:24:48.080
<v Speaker 1>those potential poor years that you have down the road,

1:24:48.720 --> 1:24:51.040
<v Speaker 1>and it balances out. You know, you'll have some good years,

1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:53.479
<v Speaker 1>you'll have some bad years. But that way you don't

1:24:53.520 --> 1:24:55.960
<v Speaker 1>have some really really really bad years and you're you know,

1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:57.719
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to pull yourself up out of a hole.

1:24:58.240 --> 1:25:00.400
<v Speaker 1>So what do we what do you what would you

1:25:00.400 --> 1:25:03.800
<v Speaker 1>say the major like one or two things that you

1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:07.360
<v Speaker 1>guys are doing right now that is going to help

1:25:07.439 --> 1:25:10.240
<v Speaker 1>us get a handle on it. So from the from

1:25:10.280 --> 1:25:13.040
<v Speaker 1>the regulatory standpoint, you know, obviously you know that's one

1:25:13.080 --> 1:25:15.680
<v Speaker 1>of the major things that we can control. So you know,

1:25:15.720 --> 1:25:18.559
<v Speaker 1>pushing the season back to where we did right in

1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:20.960
<v Speaker 1>and around April nineteenth, and that's gonna vary based on

1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:23.880
<v Speaker 1>calendar creep because we put it as the third Monday

1:25:23.920 --> 1:25:27.320
<v Speaker 1>in April um to limit some of that that early

1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:29.560
<v Speaker 1>pressure because you know, you set it up on Saturday,

1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:32.839
<v Speaker 1>everybody can go, you end up having a lot more issues,

1:25:32.880 --> 1:25:37.040
<v Speaker 1>safety issues, hunter interference issues, you know, it's a greater conflict.

1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:38.960
<v Speaker 1>So we we keep it on a Monday to kind

1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:41.160
<v Speaker 1>of spread some of that pressure out throughout the week

1:25:41.240 --> 1:25:43.760
<v Speaker 1>so it's not all just a free for all on

1:25:43.800 --> 1:25:45.600
<v Speaker 1>the on the opening day because then then a lot

1:25:45.640 --> 1:25:47.800
<v Speaker 1>of folks just aren't happy with that and we've had

1:25:47.840 --> 1:25:50.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of you know, complaints over the years when

1:25:50.320 --> 1:25:52.920
<v Speaker 1>they did that and moving it back to Monday. But

1:25:53.360 --> 1:25:55.759
<v Speaker 1>by pushing us back to that kind of April nineteenth

1:25:55.800 --> 1:25:59.519
<v Speaker 1>time frame, we're allowing more of those hands to be bred.

1:26:00.080 --> 1:26:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Us to the information I had to work with with

1:26:02.400 --> 1:26:06.240
<v Speaker 1>some of our research projects, with those population surveys, we

1:26:06.240 --> 1:26:08.920
<v Speaker 1>could actually you know, we take age estimates on the

1:26:08.960 --> 1:26:11.800
<v Speaker 1>pulse so we can back date how old we anticipate those,

1:26:11.840 --> 1:26:13.960
<v Speaker 1>and I usually go pretty conservative. You know, if somebody

1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:16.759
<v Speaker 1>says they're two weeks old, okay, I'm saying there fourteen days.

1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, at that point, I go back from that

1:26:19.120 --> 1:26:21.920
<v Speaker 1>fourteen days that's when they hatched. I can go back

1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:24.960
<v Speaker 1>eight days. They usually go twenty eight. Just go on

1:26:25.000 --> 1:26:28.200
<v Speaker 1>the far far side of things when they're hatching, to say, okay,

1:26:28.240 --> 1:26:30.920
<v Speaker 1>this is when they first started incubating that nest, and

1:26:30.960 --> 1:26:33.400
<v Speaker 1>then go back even further when they started laying that

1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:36.680
<v Speaker 1>about fourteen days before that. So that that's what we're

1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:39.120
<v Speaker 1>talking about in that April nineteenth time frame, is that's

1:26:39.120 --> 1:26:42.160
<v Speaker 1>the peak nest initiation or egg laying time period in

1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the state. So there's a bunch of is being done

1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>in March. Some of the breeding is being done in March.

1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Most of it's probably ramping up right there in the

1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:53.799
<v Speaker 1>middle of April. You know, typically some of the old research,

1:26:53.840 --> 1:26:56.560
<v Speaker 1>and this is looking at captive birds, but basically suggests

1:26:56.560 --> 1:26:59.240
<v Speaker 1>that you know, those birds are getting bread and going

1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:01.840
<v Speaker 1>to lay there that start that laying process probably within

1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:05.080
<v Speaker 1>forty seventy two hours of of when they were bred.

1:27:05.680 --> 1:27:07.519
<v Speaker 1>So and it's not to say that some of those

1:27:07.520 --> 1:27:09.960
<v Speaker 1>hands aren't getting bred early. I mean I get reports

1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:12.080
<v Speaker 1>every year. You know, here's trail camera picture and there's

1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:14.599
<v Speaker 1>a bird, you know, breeding a hand first of March,

1:27:15.080 --> 1:27:17.679
<v Speaker 1>seventh of March, something like that. Well, that's that's all occurring,

1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:20.599
<v Speaker 1>and some of those birds aren't ready to actually lay

1:27:20.680 --> 1:27:23.639
<v Speaker 1>that nest, so they continue to breed with more times

1:27:23.760 --> 1:27:25.640
<v Speaker 1>right up until the time that they're they're ready to

1:27:25.960 --> 1:27:29.360
<v Speaker 1>start that process. And most of that occurs right around

1:27:29.360 --> 1:27:32.519
<v Speaker 1>now this previous week or so. And so you know

1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:35.120
<v Speaker 1>where we had had seasons time about the tenth or

1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:38.040
<v Speaker 1>so of April that fell right within probably that peak

1:27:38.120 --> 1:27:40.559
<v Speaker 1>breeding period in the States. So that's when most of

1:27:40.560 --> 1:27:42.640
<v Speaker 1>those times didn't have to gobble as much. You know,

1:27:42.680 --> 1:27:44.519
<v Speaker 1>they're sitting up there on the limb. They might gobble

1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:46.520
<v Speaker 1>a few times, but a lot of those hands are

1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:48.639
<v Speaker 1>right there roosted around them because they're gonna come down,

1:27:48.720 --> 1:27:51.160
<v Speaker 1>they're gonna breed with them early, and then they're gonna

1:27:51.200 --> 1:27:54.400
<v Speaker 1>move off and potentially start that that laying sequence pretty

1:27:54.439 --> 1:27:58.320
<v Speaker 1>shortly thereafter. And so that obviously reduces you know a

1:27:58.360 --> 1:28:01.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of the um satisfaction with with hunting. You know,

1:28:02.000 --> 1:28:04.519
<v Speaker 1>Goblin's going down, You're not hearing as much. You know,

1:28:04.600 --> 1:28:07.080
<v Speaker 1>this week, you know, this first week here, the season

1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:08.760
<v Speaker 1>wasn't the best, but you know, some of that's been

1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:12.000
<v Speaker 1>influenced probably more by weather, um spring green up this

1:28:12.080 --> 1:28:14.240
<v Speaker 1>year was actually probably a little bit delayed for it

1:28:14.360 --> 1:28:16.920
<v Speaker 1>has been UM. So you know, we may actually be

1:28:17.000 --> 1:28:19.080
<v Speaker 1>hitting more of that kind of low period right now

1:28:19.120 --> 1:28:20.880
<v Speaker 1>and some of that may really start to ramp up

1:28:20.880 --> 1:28:22.720
<v Speaker 1>here in the ladder, you know, two thirds of the

1:28:22.760 --> 1:28:25.320
<v Speaker 1>season over the next few days. What so, what if

1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:29.360
<v Speaker 1>you had a message for people about Turkey hunting, what

1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:32.160
<v Speaker 1>would you say, like just in terms of you being

1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:34.719
<v Speaker 1>a part of the agency, Like what would you ask

1:28:34.760 --> 1:28:38.120
<v Speaker 1>of people? I would ask aspects to have have some patience.

1:28:38.160 --> 1:28:40.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously, we we didn't get to the point

1:28:40.200 --> 1:28:43.640
<v Speaker 1>that we're at right now overnight, and we're not going

1:28:43.680 --> 1:28:45.880
<v Speaker 1>to change that overnight. Um, you know, I mean I

1:28:45.920 --> 1:28:47.800
<v Speaker 1>thought you were going to double the turkey. Did you

1:28:47.880 --> 1:28:51.000
<v Speaker 1>say that? Didn't he say that in one year he

1:28:51.040 --> 1:28:55.120
<v Speaker 1>could double the turkey. I wish it worked that way.

1:28:55.120 --> 1:28:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I wish it was that easy. But my whole quote, Yeah,

1:29:00.080 --> 1:29:02.760
<v Speaker 1>my hope is that you know, over time here that

1:29:02.800 --> 1:29:05.040
<v Speaker 1>we can get some of those those good springs, Like

1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:07.040
<v Speaker 1>we've had two pretty good hatches. If we get another

1:29:07.120 --> 1:29:09.600
<v Speaker 1>really good hatch this year, I mean, you think about it.

1:29:09.640 --> 1:29:11.840
<v Speaker 1>You might have doubled your population two years ago, but

1:29:11.840 --> 1:29:14.280
<v Speaker 1>you're at a real low point. So then last year,

1:29:14.320 --> 1:29:16.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, if we about doubled it again. You know,

1:29:16.600 --> 1:29:18.880
<v Speaker 1>now we're even better and we're really starting to see it.

1:29:18.880 --> 1:29:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Well now if we get a third year back to

1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:22.760
<v Speaker 1>back to back, now we really see it, you know,

1:29:22.800 --> 1:29:24.519
<v Speaker 1>in these future years, because you're gonna have a lot

1:29:24.520 --> 1:29:26.960
<v Speaker 1>more young birds running around and then maybe potentially you're

1:29:27.160 --> 1:29:30.160
<v Speaker 1>your gobblin activity is gonna increase. But but the likelihood

1:29:30.160 --> 1:29:32.360
<v Speaker 1>is will have a poort year. You know, there's no

1:29:32.400 --> 1:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>guarantee that we're going to get that back to back

1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:36.240
<v Speaker 1>to back because we just don't know what that weather

1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:38.040
<v Speaker 1>is going to do. So I would just say to

1:29:38.080 --> 1:29:40.920
<v Speaker 1>have patients, you know, to take take some time, you know,

1:29:41.400 --> 1:29:45.080
<v Speaker 1>maybe kind of recalibrate those expectations. Don't don't look back

1:29:45.080 --> 1:29:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to the early two thousands and say, Okay, we killed

1:29:48.360 --> 1:29:52.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty thousand birds. We need to kill kill twenty thousand again,

1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:53.960
<v Speaker 1>because it's it's unlikely that we're ever going to see

1:29:54.000 --> 1:29:56.880
<v Speaker 1>our harvest numbers get that high again. Because of the

1:29:56.880 --> 1:29:59.439
<v Speaker 1>new regulations that we have in place. You know, everything

1:29:59.479 --> 1:30:01.800
<v Speaker 1>that's changed from back then to now, it's not going

1:30:01.880 --> 1:30:04.360
<v Speaker 1>to allow those numbers to quite get to that point.

1:30:04.760 --> 1:30:06.800
<v Speaker 1>You know. I look back to when we had a

1:30:06.880 --> 1:30:10.120
<v Speaker 1>later season, just a handful of years ago, twelve to

1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:14.000
<v Speaker 1>sixteen time period, we killed about ten to eleven thousand

1:30:14.120 --> 1:30:16.439
<v Speaker 1>or so birds in the state that was we were

1:30:16.439 --> 1:30:18.160
<v Speaker 1>one of the states at that time. We actually saw

1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:20.479
<v Speaker 1>we had declined a whole bunch and then we started

1:30:20.479 --> 1:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>coming up. We actually made this this increase during those years,

1:30:23.240 --> 1:30:25.320
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of out of the norm for a

1:30:25.360 --> 1:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of the other states. Most people were either just

1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:30.519
<v Speaker 1>kind of staying steady or still declining, and we saw

1:30:30.600 --> 1:30:33.760
<v Speaker 1>this nice spike. We don't know if that was the regulations.

1:30:33.800 --> 1:30:35.920
<v Speaker 1>We we know we had good reproduction on the front

1:30:36.000 --> 1:30:39.400
<v Speaker 1>end of that twelve and thirteen, but we didn't kind

1:30:39.400 --> 1:30:42.479
<v Speaker 1>of follow through for it those remaining years, So we

1:30:42.520 --> 1:30:44.400
<v Speaker 1>don't know would we have just continued to go down

1:30:44.400 --> 1:30:47.479
<v Speaker 1>where we've leveled out, you know, anything about that which

1:30:47.520 --> 1:30:49.600
<v Speaker 1>is unfortunate. And the hope will be that, you know,

1:30:49.640 --> 1:30:51.800
<v Speaker 1>we can keep the regulations we have in place now

1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:54.519
<v Speaker 1>for some time to to watch those those trends and

1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:57.840
<v Speaker 1>actually get trend data because you know, going back the

1:30:57.880 --> 1:31:00.960
<v Speaker 1>last thirty forty years, we've made so many regulation changes

1:31:01.000 --> 1:31:03.840
<v Speaker 1>as an agency and it it's actually you know a

1:31:03.880 --> 1:31:05.680
<v Speaker 1>lot of folks look at you know, what what is

1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:07.639
<v Speaker 1>the agency done, and well, they've actually done a lot

1:31:07.720 --> 1:31:10.120
<v Speaker 1>compared to a lot of other agencies. We've made so

1:31:10.160 --> 1:31:13.200
<v Speaker 1>many raggs changes. But it makes it impossible to you know,

1:31:13.280 --> 1:31:15.320
<v Speaker 1>de termineate a sort of trend data because of all

1:31:15.360 --> 1:31:19.760
<v Speaker 1>those those different kind of interwoven REGs changes that you know,

1:31:19.800 --> 1:31:23.080
<v Speaker 1>each one has its own different impact on what that

1:31:23.120 --> 1:31:25.200
<v Speaker 1>harvest is going to be, So it makes trying to

1:31:25.240 --> 1:31:28.960
<v Speaker 1>compare from one year to the next, you know, almost impossible. Um,

1:31:29.000 --> 1:31:31.760
<v Speaker 1>So hopefully we can kind of maintain some and see

1:31:31.760 --> 1:31:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it out and then if we do need to make

1:31:33.240 --> 1:31:35.880
<v Speaker 1>a change. We make one change at a time and say, okay,

1:31:35.880 --> 1:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>how how is this this impact it? Maybe study that

1:31:38.880 --> 1:31:41.840
<v Speaker 1>and see, okay, we went to this, we didn't see

1:31:41.840 --> 1:31:43.920
<v Speaker 1>any change. Okay, maybe we can return that and we

1:31:44.000 --> 1:31:47.080
<v Speaker 1>move one of these other factors, and you know, hopefully

1:31:47.160 --> 1:31:48.559
<v Speaker 1>in time we'll get to a point where we can

1:31:48.600 --> 1:31:50.679
<v Speaker 1>actually say, you know, how many how many turkey hunters

1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:52.240
<v Speaker 1>do we have in the state. I don't know how

1:31:52.320 --> 1:31:54.719
<v Speaker 1>many we have, and you know, some of our estimates,

1:31:54.720 --> 1:31:56.599
<v Speaker 1>as do we We don't have any idea how many

1:31:56.720 --> 1:31:59.000
<v Speaker 1>we don't we We have some estimates based on some

1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:01.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of deer and key hunter opinion surveys that we're

1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:04.840
<v Speaker 1>done in fourteen, sixteen, and eighteen that say, okay, maybe

1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:08.400
<v Speaker 1>about forty percent of our license holders hunt turkeys. Well,

1:32:08.600 --> 1:32:12.280
<v Speaker 1>depending on which number you use and the exact you know,

1:32:12.360 --> 1:32:14.719
<v Speaker 1>license holders that you know, I could be anywhere from

1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:17.360
<v Speaker 1>seven to a hundred and something thousand turkey hunters in

1:32:17.400 --> 1:32:19.720
<v Speaker 1>the state. So you know, when I look at a

1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:22.519
<v Speaker 1>year where we have say, say we have seventy thousand

1:32:22.520 --> 1:32:26.519
<v Speaker 1>we last year we killed seven thousand turkeys. Well, okay,

1:32:26.520 --> 1:32:29.439
<v Speaker 1>that says, okay, maybe you have about ten percent success.

1:32:29.479 --> 1:32:31.160
<v Speaker 1>But you know, when I look at some of my

1:32:31.200 --> 1:32:33.880
<v Speaker 1>counterparts talk to like Georgia, that they estimate they've got

1:32:33.880 --> 1:32:36.479
<v Speaker 1>fifty to sixty thousand turkey hunters. They're much larger state

1:32:36.520 --> 1:32:39.439
<v Speaker 1>than us, They've got more birds than us. I'd be

1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of hard pressed to expect we have more turkey

1:32:41.479 --> 1:32:44.200
<v Speaker 1>hunters here in Arkansas than there. So you know, say

1:32:44.200 --> 1:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>we have half as much, say we have thirty five

1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:48.400
<v Speaker 1>forty thousand turkey hunters. Well, now all of a sudden,

1:32:48.400 --> 1:32:52.559
<v Speaker 1>your success rates and that's actually maybe more in line

1:32:52.600 --> 1:32:54.599
<v Speaker 1>with a lot of these other states throughout the country.

1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that's more normal, and we're kind of in the

1:32:57.000 --> 1:32:59.040
<v Speaker 1>ballpark where we should be. And you know, you're just

1:32:59.080 --> 1:33:02.439
<v Speaker 1>gonna see those fluctuations depending on what that hatch looks like.

1:33:02.840 --> 1:33:04.599
<v Speaker 1>And it's gonna be every other year because we don't

1:33:04.640 --> 1:33:07.479
<v Speaker 1>harvest jake. So you don't see those trends. You know,

1:33:07.520 --> 1:33:09.800
<v Speaker 1>wherever you see a spike in reproduction, you don't see

1:33:09.840 --> 1:33:12.839
<v Speaker 1>that spiking harvest, you know, come for two years instead

1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:15.120
<v Speaker 1>of in a lot of states where since you're able

1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>to harvest jakes, you know, it happens that following years,

1:33:18.320 --> 1:33:20.200
<v Speaker 1>like if this summer, you know you had a good year.

1:33:20.400 --> 1:33:22.120
<v Speaker 1>In a lot of states, you'd see that spike and

1:33:22.200 --> 1:33:25.519
<v Speaker 1>harvest next spring, whereas here we'd see it a little

1:33:25.560 --> 1:33:30.479
<v Speaker 1>two years later. Yeah, well, fascinating stuff. Yeah, that's great man,

1:33:30.600 --> 1:33:33.960
<v Speaker 1>thanks a ton for coming up here. Really appreciate it.

1:33:34.280 --> 1:33:37.200
<v Speaker 1>And uh, we'll be We'll give you a couple more years, Jeremy,

1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:40.200
<v Speaker 1>we'll be patient with you. But you know, by about

1:33:40.320 --> 1:33:44.720
<v Speaker 1>two years from now, I need like five bird bag limit. No, man,

1:33:46.160 --> 1:33:48.160
<v Speaker 1>let us know. We'll get Austin to get it for you.

1:33:48.360 --> 1:33:54.720
<v Speaker 1>That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. No, no, no, man,

1:33:54.760 --> 1:33:57.360
<v Speaker 1>we appreciate what you're doing for real. We we know

1:33:57.439 --> 1:33:59.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not an easy chair to sit in. And uh

1:34:00.280 --> 1:34:04.400
<v Speaker 1>and Gili man, it's a it's a dynamic and complex

1:34:04.439 --> 1:34:08.720
<v Speaker 1>system that's constantly changing. I mean with the landscape and

1:34:09.040 --> 1:34:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the human involvement and weather changing. You know, weather patterns

1:34:13.920 --> 1:34:17.960
<v Speaker 1>are undoubtedly changing. It's like such a complex system. I mean,

1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:20.000
<v Speaker 1>all we can do is give it our best and

1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and I know, I mean I have full faith. You know,

1:34:23.120 --> 1:34:24.880
<v Speaker 1>there's some I mean I have a lot of faith

1:34:24.920 --> 1:34:27.760
<v Speaker 1>in game agencies just doing the absolute best they can.

1:34:27.840 --> 1:34:31.360
<v Speaker 1>It's in their best interests. I mean, every state agency

1:34:31.520 --> 1:34:34.599
<v Speaker 1>wants engagement from people they know. To get that engagement,

1:34:34.600 --> 1:34:36.639
<v Speaker 1>they've got to have wildlife. I mean, we're all kind

1:34:36.640 --> 1:34:38.719
<v Speaker 1>of on the same team in terms of these things,

1:34:39.320 --> 1:34:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and these are the guys that are that have the

1:34:42.120 --> 1:34:45.720
<v Speaker 1>day to have the research are doing the best that

1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:48.400
<v Speaker 1>we know how inside of the bounds of science and

1:34:49.000 --> 1:34:52.760
<v Speaker 1>human relations to make all this stuff work. So yeah,

1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:55.760
<v Speaker 1>we appreciate the hard work and the you know, considering

1:34:55.800 --> 1:34:59.599
<v Speaker 1>the habitat of wildlife and the hunters, and I think

1:34:59.640 --> 1:35:02.640
<v Speaker 1>because do a great job balancing that out right on

1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:12.360
<v Speaker 1>mm hm