1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production 2 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render, 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the 4 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f 5 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear 6 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. 7 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Speaking of big mustaches, if you notice in this room 8 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: somebody is missing a mustache, and I think we should 9 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: do something about that. You get to take your pick, 10 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: so uh yeah, Misty. Misty is usually and today the 11 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: only one in the room without a mustache. If you 12 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: would who would make you feel better? If you would 13 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: make it make you feel better. I've purchased months ago 14 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: to make you feel welcome, and so you should feel 15 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: So there's the food Man Chew, the Dolly, the Disco Brave, 16 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: the lawn art con artist Roland Rowly, Rich Uncle Nickel bags. Yeah, 17 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: Nickel bags. I'm not sure that food man Chew. I 18 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: don't think I have a long enough chin. Yeah, I 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: think you looked good in a number of those. So 20 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: you get to take your pick. So this is a gift, 21 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: so that I yeah, all right, you know I've always 22 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: been kind of grateful to to not have ancestors. Welcome 23 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: to the Beargrease Render Podcast. We have we have a 24 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: very special guest today for real, like a real special guest. 25 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: But before we introduced him, I'm going to Uh, I 26 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: got a few things I want to show you, guys. Okay, Well, 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Missy's picking out her mustache. So Josh has bought her. 28 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Josh went to like a Dollar General or something and 29 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: online retailer which we will is there official? Okay, so 30 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: Misty's Uh, Misty's putting on her her stash so she'll 31 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: feel see. I feel like you've made an excellent choice here. Okay, good, yeah, now, okay, 32 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: this is gonna be pure chaos. Oh yeah, you look. 33 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: You look amazing. You've never looked better. Misty as her 34 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: as her husband. This is approved for this setting you 35 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: feel about it might be like a waxing deal, you know, 36 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: like the ladies do where they rip it off. That 37 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: would be awesome. That would be awesome. So I've got 38 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: a few things I'd like to I'd like to share 39 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: with you before I introduce our guests. Now, guests, you 40 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: feel free to chime in at any time. They're just 41 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: if they hear your voice, they'll they'll just wonder who 42 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: you are. I was out on the phone today. Do 43 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: you know much about air heads, jeremy little bit stone points? 44 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: I was. I was out today talking on the phone, 45 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: walking through the mule pasture, and any time we get 46 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: a big rain, I'm telling you, any time we get 47 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: a big rain, if you want to walk out there, 48 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: you'll find flint points. I found actually found two. But 49 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: this is a broken it's it's half a point. And 50 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: I really believe that was probably an actual erahead. Most 51 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: of the points you find that are slightly bigger are 52 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: adladdle or spirit points. Look good, it's really hard to 53 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: take you serious. This is uh so, this is what 54 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: what I have is the is the half and the 55 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: two corner notches. But that's pretty that's a that's a 56 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: really nice yeah. And man, I'll tell you what. When 57 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: I saw this, you know what I did. I picked 58 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: it up and took it back to my office with me. Yeah. 59 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm kind of on a little bit of a tangent 60 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: about people saying don't pick up stone points if you're 61 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: on public land. You can't. It's a law. And that's like, 62 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: you can't pick it up. That's okay. If you're on 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: private land or can cannot, cannot pick up artifacts or 64 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: really anything off of private on publicly, that's okay. But 65 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: I've had some kind of people say that you shouldn't 66 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: pick up a stone point, and I I just it 67 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense to me, because if this were, 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: if this were the fulsome site, if like, if people, 69 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: if archaeologists here that I'm finding stone points in my 70 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: front yard and they want to come to my house 71 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: and do a full excavation, come on, man, we'll make coffee. 72 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: We'll have you on the podcast. Like, if y'all want 73 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: to do an archaeological dig in my front yard, you're 74 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: welcome to. I don't think that's gonna happen because there's 75 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: about thirty thousand other places that are more likely for 76 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: this to happen. Are you with me? I'm totally with you, 77 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: And I don't see the what would be the point 78 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: of leaving what would be the point of leaving it there? Well, 79 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: so the only point, and I agree with this, is 80 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: that by taking something out of you know, they call 81 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: it n C two when it's found at a point 82 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: or artifact found just like it lays there's a lot 83 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: of value inside of that for archaeologist. If you mess 84 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: around with it, then a lot of the story is lost. 85 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: But if that stone point is sitting on the surface 86 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: and the next rain that's going to be in the creek, 87 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: exactly what's the point of right and the legality of it? Now, 88 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: if I was on somebody else's land and I didn't 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: have express permission to take a stone point, I wouldn't. 90 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: In every stone point I've ever found on someone else's land, 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: I have gone and asked them if I could keep it, 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: and that is the truth. Um. But anyway, I have 93 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: quite the collection up here, Jeremy of stone points. Most 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: of them came from my front yard down here. Do 95 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: you feel like there's an inordinate number of stone points 96 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: in that field? I think there's a couple of factors 97 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: right here that are important. There's a big year round 98 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: spring about a hundred yards from right here where we sit. Uh. 99 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: There's also it's the intersection of two creeks on a 100 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: little low spot down here. I think this valley had 101 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: a fair bit of Native American camping activity. Um So, 102 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: just the fact that it's a valley probably means that 103 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: it had some maybe a little bit more than normal. 104 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: But like the next valley over, I mean, there's nothing 105 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: special about this one. Your neighbor found a pretty good 106 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: sized stump point. Did he show you that which one? Oh? 107 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: Yes he did? Yeah? Far away from here? Yeah, yeah, 108 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: not far away from here he found note he founded 109 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: the place. He didn't found it back in here. Um. 110 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: But no, I feel like the most respectful thing that 111 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: I could do for the human that made that was 112 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: to pick that up and ponder about it. Yeah, absolutely, 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: and show it to people. Yeah. So I just what 114 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: do you think, Misty? Well, I think sometimes Misty thinks 115 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: about pick fights. I mean, I just think I don't 116 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: I don't love that when he gets all snippy like that. 117 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: It's a soapbox, and everybody have their soapbox. He's got 118 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: more than one. You know, everyone's entitled there as in 119 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: you know, anybody can start a podcast. I did get 120 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: on I did get onto my daughter the other day 121 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: about being opinionated. Okay, we'll move on past. And I 122 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: just want to say I I deeply respect the archaeological community, 123 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: and I do not intend to disturb any kind of 124 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: major sites. But I mean, like I put up stone 125 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: points and people pick on me for picking it up, 126 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: and I'm like, let me just say this. I think 127 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: one of the Jeremy o our guest here has been 128 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: has been thrust into I think one of the cool 129 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: things that Clay does with those points. Though. I will 130 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: just say this, since our kids were little, he would 131 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: like show him to him and he would be he 132 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: would tell him and the last guy that you're laughing 133 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: because I'm on my stage. It's going to be difficult. 134 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: Also it is um but he said he would always 135 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: like hold up the he'd always hold up the points. 136 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: Who made me like the last guy that held this 137 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: was you know, sharpen In this for his dinner and 138 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: he'd like make a little story for him about And 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: I feel like that always gave our kids some appreciation 140 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: for for the people who came before, and I think 141 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: that's a value. It makes you feel like a part 142 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: of the whole story when you do that, because it's 143 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: a bizarre human experience to not get your food from 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: the killing of an animal with a stone point. For real. 145 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's been it's estimated that like a hundred 146 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: and eight billion humans have ever lived on planet Earth. Okay, 147 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: right now, there's about seven point seven something billion people 148 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: on Earth, So there have been about a hundred billion 149 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: people that are no longer alive that have been on 150 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: the earth. We've only been experimenting with this whole agriculture 151 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: thing for about ten thousand years. For real. It's it's 152 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: a it's a It could be argued, but it would 153 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: be a legitimate statement to say the people who live 154 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: in modern times are absolutely, absolutely experimenting with the way 155 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: humans should live. Most humans that have ever lived, we're 156 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: killing their animals with stone points. Great question, follow up, 157 00:08:54,320 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: is the experiment working? You have to that's got yeah? Okay. 158 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: So I hold in my hand a beautiful watercolor painting 159 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: that's water color. I didn't know it was watercolor. Well, 160 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. She painted this, I mean, 161 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: come on, just go with it, Okay. I hold my 162 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: beautiful water beautiful watercolor painting of Warner Glenn with the 163 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: with the jaguar. So a well known artist by the 164 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: last name of DeMoss. And I purchased this online. Yeah, 165 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: and so if you type in uh Warner Glenn jaguar painting, 166 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: you can get a reprint of this. And I'm going 167 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: to hang this up in the office and so this 168 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: image of this jaguar is the actual photo. I mean 169 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: that that's what the jack, That's what Warner Glenn's photo 170 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: looked like when he took the picture of the jaguar. 171 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: But he wasn't but he wasn't, So the the author 172 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: took some liberty to put Warner Glenn coming up there 173 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: with his white Walker dogs. But Jeremy, so we we've 174 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: interviewed and spent quite a bit of time with this 175 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: old man named Warner Glenn. He's eighties six years old. 176 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: He lives in southeast Arizona, and he was the first 177 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: person in modern times to document a live jaguar in 178 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: the United States. So he these jaguars. Does Arkansas have 179 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: a jaguar biologist? If it was to be Myron means 180 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: my Iron means is our jaguar biologist. He's my jaguar biologist. 181 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: Um not my biologist. Uh So Warner has the original 182 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: painting of this hanging in his house. Is huge. It 183 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: is huge. I mean it's like six foot by probably 184 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: five ft maybe bigger, maybe eight it's huge. But we 185 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: were right in this country back in early March when 186 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: we went to Warner Glenn's we made a film. And 187 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll go ahead and tell you there's gonna 188 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: be a film come out about Warner Glenn. No, I 189 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: really don't, but just gonna be incredible. He's eighty six 190 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: years old, Jeremy and still rides a mule miles a year, 191 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: just a bad to the bone, dry ground lion hunter. 192 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: He really is living legend, Warner Glenn. That being said 193 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: Kelly Glenn Kimbro his daughter. Uh sent me an email 194 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: yesterday and Warner Glenn's oldest best dog named Hook died 195 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: passed away. Hook was twelve years old. So we hunted 196 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: with Hook. Yeah, yeah, he did, he did. And uh, 197 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: Hook bade a lion in a bluff on let's see 198 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: on like in early April, he bade a lion in 199 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: a bluff and the lion jumped off a big cliff 200 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: and Hook he didn't jump, but Hook went down after 201 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 1: thee and the only dog in the pack. As I 202 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: understood it, that went down in the in the end, 203 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: the rock around that area is just incredible. I mean, 204 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: like you could get in a bind in a hurry, 205 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: and this line went off and Hooked twelve years old, 206 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: went off with the lion and got down there and 207 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: was baying the lion. They end up killing the lion 208 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: and then it took Hook forty five minutes of just 209 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: scratching up the rock bluff to get back up, and 210 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: then later they had he was fine after that, but 211 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: but later he just he had some not complications for that, 212 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: but they had to put him down. But anyway, Old Hook, 213 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: but I wanted to show you all that. What say 214 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: on the podcast he said this might be his last 215 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: well he said, he said this might be Hooks last year, 216 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: and it might be mine, is what he said. Yeah, 217 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: he said, me and Old Hook might go at the 218 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: same time. So I don't think that's gonna happen though. 219 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: Um hey, I wanted to show you all that. And 220 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: then look at this. Colby made this for me. Before 221 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: Colby made this for me, So this is a what 222 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: is that watercolor? It is paint on painting. Cooby had dismayed. 223 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: So you guys remember the podcast I did about white 224 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: Tail Secrets, and I talked about this big deer that 225 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: I've been hunting for several years that we believe is dead. Um, 226 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: and we named him Jody, And I didn't tell why 227 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: we named him Jody. There's a song by David Allen 228 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: Co called Jody like a melody in the song, Oh, 229 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: I wish we could sing it. I wish we could 230 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: sing it. We don't need to do it today. But 231 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: we can't sing that song. Yeah, we can't. But if 232 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: they like melody, yeah, it's there's like if you listen 233 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: to the song with the thoughts of a white tailed 234 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: deer that just comes in and out of your life. Jody, 235 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: like a melody you play inside my head fill the 236 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: thought of you is more than I can stand awake 237 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: and wait for you to come on my technicam and 238 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: when you tell you know, almost lose my mind. Jodi, 239 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: like a melody you want. So we named this Dear 240 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Jody so Kobe had been out like a white buffalo. 241 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: It's something that legend. Yeah, all right, enough enough foolishness. 242 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: We have a very distinguished guest with us today, Jeremy 243 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: would from the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. Welcome Jeremy. 244 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: I told you we were going to cut up a 245 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: little bit before before we got serious. Yeah. So Jeremy 246 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: is the wild turkey biologist for State of Arkansas, which 247 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: is a big deal. Um, so we're gonna I just 248 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: wanted to introduce him. Do we get to question him later? 249 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: This is the most this is the most hated man 250 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: in Arkansas. What did you do? We're gonna he didn't 251 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: know he's walked into a trap. No, no, no, no, no, 252 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: we all got great. I mean I want to hear 253 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: what have to say before that? Let me introduce all 254 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: my guests. Misty n Newcomb, Misty Mustache Nukem No. Great 255 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: to have you. Miss y'all know that. But I don't 256 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: know if I can say this or not. Uh, I'm 257 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: gonna be on the live podcast and in the Live 258 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: Mediator podcast. It's next week in Bozeman, Montana, and I'm 259 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: gonna have a special guest with me on the live podcast. 260 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: I won't say who, but anyway, that's gonna be a 261 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: big deal. Um so if it words for shadowing left, 262 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: Josh Lambridge filmmaker. Great to see you, Josh. And if 263 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: that special guest can't go, I'd be happy to go 264 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: with you. All right. Good to see you, Josh. Here 265 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: to your left a guest who's been on here before, 266 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: but it's been a while. Colby Moorhead, Good to see you. 267 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: Mane the bear Tex gonna be back so so Colby 268 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: For anybody who wouldn't know Colby from my from my world, 269 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: Colby runs Bear Honey Magazine. Facts. Don't talk to me 270 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: about Bear Honey Magazine. Talked to Kolby. Yeah, I spend 271 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: most of my life directing people to Kolbe. Yeah. Bear 272 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: Honey Magazine For those who wouldn't know much about it. 273 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: Baronni Magazine has been in print for twenty two years 274 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: two thousand. Yeah, since two thousand, the only print Bear 275 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: Hunting magazine in the world. Facts, yep, just the facts. 276 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: Just take it or leave it. And um, the magazine 277 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: described the magazine, what what do we have in there? Well, 278 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a beautiful collection of stories and information. 279 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: If that's not a kind of polished no, it's uh, 280 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: it's just a collection of just people's stories. We take 281 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: some missions we have freelance writers and they just uh, 282 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: they'll be tips and tactics and just stories and you 283 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: really never know what to expect except that it's going 284 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: to be very well produced and laid out. And then 285 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: we'll we always try to tell the story visually as well, 286 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, as just do the written words. So if 287 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: you're someone that likes to just flip through a magazine, 288 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: look at the pretty pictures. That's cool. If you want 289 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: to dive in and just read it cover to cover, 290 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: that's cool. If you're just into hounds and just want 291 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: to read that content and look at everything else, like, 292 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: it really is something that if you're interested in bear 293 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: hunting or just like to know more about that. You know, 294 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: there's people that get it and never have intentions of 295 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: bear hunting. So it's just a good just a good interface. 296 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: But I would say that as a subscriber, it is 297 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 1: some fantastic tactile bathroom reading m good. I don't think 298 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: we want to know what that means. You can put 299 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: two and two together. So I always tell people if 300 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: you want to get into any kind of bear hunting, 301 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: so Bear Hunting Magazine we've always tried to give the 302 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: full gamut of North American bear hunting, which is interesting 303 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: because a lot of times a species will be so 304 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: isolated to one region, Like if you're hunting elk, I mean, 305 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: you're pretty much gonna talk about the Rocky Mountain West 306 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: if you're I mean, there's other species that are widespread, 307 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: but the bear is the most widely, naturally widely distributed, 308 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: big game mammal other than the mountain lion in North America. 309 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: Chew on that, just chew on it. Then think about it. 310 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: So pre European settlement, the most wide, widely distributed mammal 311 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: in North America big game mammal was the mountain lion. 312 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: They were just almost coast to coast from Canada to Mexico. 313 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: Second second was the black bear. So I say that 314 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: to say, we hunt black bear in the East and 315 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: all these different methods, a lot of hounds, a lot 316 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: of big woods, eastern deciduous forests, spotting stock stuff, driving dry, 317 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, doing drives in Pennsylvania. But then you get 318 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: into the West and you have this big spot in 319 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: stock type hunting. You also have hounds up in Canada 320 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: in the boreal forest. There's it's so thick. Typically it's uh, 321 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: you're you're hunting bears over bay. You can go to 322 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: Alaska and have all kinds of different hunting. Come to Arkansas, 323 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, you hunt them over bait, spot and stock whatever. 324 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: There's a lot of different ways to do it. So 325 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: the magazine tries to reflect that. That's all I wanted 326 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: to say. But Kalbi, so what we're trying to do. 327 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: We're there's a there's a thing that Robbi Kroeger at 328 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: Blood Origins, Yeah, at at Blood Origins tell us about 329 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: what he's doing. Yeah. So there's a project he's wanting 330 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 1: to help support the Arkansas fishing game. Especially it was 331 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: specifically inside of the black bear research and so they're 332 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: looking to expand and and really seeing how that's going 333 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: to affect things. They're just wanting to learn more about 334 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: the population of black bears in the and it's particularly 335 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: with the southeastern United States where they United States, Southeast 336 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: Arkansas where they well, southern the Gulf Coastal Plain of 337 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: Arkansas was like the southern one third where they are 338 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: now opening up a season yeah, yeah, further furthering out 339 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: the previous drawn zones. And uh. Anyways, they're starting a fundraiser. 340 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: They're trying to raise seventy thou dollars to to give 341 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: to this project, and so they're having people open up 342 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: their own fundraising and and help, you know, commit to 343 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: to trying to reach that goal. And so what we're 344 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: gonna do is Bare Hunting Magazine is gonna start a 345 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: fundraising runner inside under Blood Origins that we're gonna be 346 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: given away two different hunts to people. One is gonna 347 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: go to the top donor they're gonna be able to 348 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: pick between the two hunts. And then we're also anyone 349 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: who donates even a dollar or whatever the minimum would 350 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: be will be thrown into a hat to uh to 351 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: get the remaining hunt. And so one hunt is gonna 352 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: be a coon hunt in Arkansas and the other hunt 353 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: is going to be a hog hunt in East Texas, 354 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: and uh, that hunt's gonna be a lot of fun. 355 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: Were riding around side by side with thermals and and 356 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: doing some night hunting, could do some day hunting to 357 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: but just get into uh, just some fun different activities 358 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: that won't get in the way of your personal hunting season. 359 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: So we're gonna be very flexible on on dates and 360 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: we'll we'll be around you know, we're gonna be really 361 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: uh going around your schedules. And so are you gonna 362 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: tell who the coon hunts with? The coon hunt is 363 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: with Mr Velty Smooth voice print reefs Yeah yeah, and 364 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: then uh yeah, and I'll be at that hunt and 365 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: so will the uh. David McDaniels, he's East Texas cam 366 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: on on Instagram. He's going to be hosting the hunt 367 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: with I think it's Foul Bore Outfitters and in East Texas. 368 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: So basically what he's saying is that you go to 369 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: the Blood Origins website and you click on the the 370 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: Black Bear Fund Arkansas Black Bear Fund, and you're going 371 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: there and you'll see a bunch of teams and you 372 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: basically pick which team you want to donate money too. 373 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: And so Colby saying, magazine Bear Hunting Magazine the the 374 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: highest donors. So you know you could give ten bucks 375 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: or a hundred bucks, or a thousand bucks or if 376 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: you're Elon Musk and you know, billions, um you could buy. 377 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: I tell you, I'm gonna make it offer Elon Musk 378 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: right now, Okay, Meat Eater and me will sell him 379 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: the Bear Greache podcast for one billion dollars. I'm gonna 380 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: even just go above my pay grade. On sure you're 381 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: authorized to. I know I'm not, but I think they 382 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: would be okay with this. So okay, back on track here, 383 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: So the pers that's only for Elon Musk, so no 384 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: one else with a billion dollars. Good step, because think 385 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: of what they would do with it. It could be anything. 386 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: I'd trust Elon ye so so the person that donates 387 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: the most gets to pick whether they on a hog 388 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: hunt or a coon hunt with Brent Reeves. Yeah, and 389 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: then the second person just entered into or anybody is 390 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: entered into a draw. Really, they're they're they're raising seventy dollars, 391 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: which is a pretty noble cause to give to the 392 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: game and fish to buy tracking collars, to study Arkansas 393 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: black Bears understand what's going on. Big deal. I love it. 394 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: That's that's pretty cool. Hats off to them for working 395 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: hard for that. Hey, before we go much further, I 396 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: want to talk about the last Bargaras podcast. So it 397 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: was it was quite different than anything we've ever done. 398 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: We've never had just a compilation of stories. I think 399 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: we had eight turkey stories on there, and U I've 400 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: really enjoyed gathering the stories. I mean it was fun talk. Yeah, 401 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: so all of you, most of you listen to the podcast, Josh, 402 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: what was your favorite? What was your favorite one? Okay, 403 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: so I I have a favorite story and a favorite 404 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: part of the story. That's my favorite story was honest story. Yeah, 405 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: because I just love I love that that idea of 406 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: his wife. First of all, I love it when a 407 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: dad takes care of his kids, so his wife can 408 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: go do something. That's an honorable thing. And I found 409 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: it interesting that the honest wife was gone for like 410 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: nine hours and he was just like, I want to 411 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: go to bed, She'll be fine. But but I love 412 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: the fact that she got so excited about it and 413 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: she was able to detail to him where the turkey 414 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: was and then him going and kill it. What a 415 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: cool thing. I mean, that's a great, great, great story 416 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: of partnership. But I before before you go to can 417 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: I can I comment on honest stories. I had somebody go, man, 418 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: what a chauvinistic move to go kill your wife's turkey. 419 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: He never made any mention of that, but apparently, you know, 420 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: they had some agreement or something that you know, he 421 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: was the one that was gonna hunt the next morning. 422 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: And since that was recorded, Oh yeah, well, since that 423 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: was recorded, Janice and his wife went out on their 424 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: annual turkey hunt and they both killed turkeys like last week. 425 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, I thought that was a good one, okay. 426 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: And then the favorite part of another Turkey Now, the 427 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: favorite part of the other Turkey story was Andy Brown 428 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: telling the story about the guy with the turkey on 429 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: the other side of the log. And my favorite part 430 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: of it is when he said, and I just Rich, 431 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: what a redneck terri stuff underneath? I love it. Yeah, 432 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: I could tell when he started telling that story. That's 433 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: something I didn't He didn't tell me what it was about. 434 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: He just said, he said, I got one more I'd 435 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: like to tell you. And he had spoken in his 436 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: like normal voice the whole time, and he said, there 437 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: was an old boy and you know, he kind of 438 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: like dove into kind of this character, you know, and uh, 439 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: and started telling that story. And that reminded me of 440 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: there's a there's a term it's using the Ozark's probably 441 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: used in the Appalachians too, um, where words are sometimes 442 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: uh like the plural of the word is is was 443 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: warped like Ori Province when I when I interviewed Ori Province, 444 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: this old mountain man out here, he said he'd clumb 445 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: a tree, clumb past tense like wretched is past tense 446 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: of reach. Yeah, past tense, not plural past tense. Yeah, 447 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: they're applying standard English rules towards that we don't okay, 448 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: is that what they're doing, Yeah, that's what they're because 449 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: think about it, reach, Rich drug, what did what did 450 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: Ori Province say, I clumb clumb clumb, I clumb the tree. 451 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, Yeah, that that was I like that story 452 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: Doc Robern about in Louisiana. Maybe actually they're they're applying 453 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: irregular applications. Misty, Hey, that brings up, that brings up 454 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: something I've been wanting to talk about. And we're not 455 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: because we're gonna go right to Kobe. Um. But Jerry 456 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: Clower we did an episode on Jerry Cloud and they 457 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: constantly used the word that. What they were that which 458 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: are daughter? They would say until she was like seven, 459 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean she was pretty old and and she inate Lea. 460 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: They would say like, rather than saying, um, we're gonna 461 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: take the car that we used to on Sunday but 462 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: we're not, they'd say, we're gonna take the car what 463 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: we used to drive on Sunday but now we don't anymore. 464 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: That like constantly he used the word what where We 465 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: would say that. Okay, Kobe moving right along favorite Turkey story, 466 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: which sounds normal to me. I was like, what are 467 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: we talking? What are we talking about? Uh? Man? I 468 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: Like the general theme is it always involved someone else 469 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of perseverance inside like, I 470 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: thought that was really cool. But my hat tip would 471 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: probably go to Mr. Will. You know, just I could 472 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: put myself in that story of just like I could. 473 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: I could visualize that whole thing. It was like I 474 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: was just there with him inside of it, and uh, 475 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: it was it the way he told it. It was 476 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: the way he told it, It was the relationship he 477 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: had with the landowner. And then it was also like overcoming, like, man, 478 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: nobody has been able to get this one for years 479 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: and he's just going there and he's like, you know, 480 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if he just wasn't thinking what if I 481 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: gotten myself into They didn't name this birden, I can't 482 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: get to him, and so I was like, man, I'm 483 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: like to work hard. What do I do? You know? 484 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: And then just overcoming an obstacle and just you know, 485 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: I just like the the whole kind of climatic the 486 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: way that he told the story story. Yeah, and you 487 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: know of all the Turkey's wills killed, which he's killed hundreds, bro, 488 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: And you could just hear his humility inside of it. 489 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: You know. I thought that was cool too. Yeah, he 490 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: seems like a really humble guy. Cool. Jeremy, what was 491 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: your favorite story so I got I got to and 492 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: then but both basically kind of bowls down to one point. 493 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: You know, I was listening to one of yours and 494 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: one of Steve's, you know, talking about taking the kids 495 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: out hunting and thinking about you know how literal you know, 496 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: kids take a lot of things, so I don't remember 497 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: it's your daughter or niece that you know, you know, yeah, 498 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: you know taking out. I don't open your eyes, and like, 499 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: did you see it? No, I heard all of this unfolding, 500 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: but I was just like I couldn't do it. And 501 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: then Steve's you know, thinking about his daughter and like 502 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, shooting in the head and I can't see 503 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: the hen and he's telling me to shoot well and 504 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: I can't talk, and I can't talk. So I got 505 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: shoot here, and so I was like just trying to 506 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: like just so call that in thinking, you know, six 507 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: seven years down the line or more, you know, whenever 508 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: we feel comfortable enough with our own son and be like, okay, 509 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we can try to get out here 510 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: and try to take one, Like okay, you know, how 511 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: do you learn from those those kind of mistakes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 512 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: you can take literal cues from those stories of what 513 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: not walking through well? And then Andy Brown talked about 514 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: his son Scott, who who didn't shoot a walk in Turkey? 515 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: Remember that? And that was that was the exact I 516 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: hadn't even put all those three together, but those three 517 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: stories from Steve's story of his daughter shooting a turkey 518 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: when when she didn't have a good shot because he 519 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: had told her not to talk, so she couldn't tell 520 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: him that he she shouldn't shoot, but he said shoot. 521 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: So she's just like okay. And then to Mallory closing 522 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: her eyes and we told her, turkey, you'll see the 523 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: watch of your eyes. So she's like, solve that problem, 524 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: closed her eyes. Turkey's come strutting in. And then too 525 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: Andy Brown telling Scott, don't shoot a walk in Turkey. 526 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: And so this turkey just just walks right and from anyway, 527 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: go ahead, Jeremy, I had never connected those three. That's good, Yeah, 528 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: but no, that that that was really it, you know, 529 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: just like taking those lessons you know, the heart and 530 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: like just thinking about me. They're all fun stories to 531 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: listen to obviously, and then but yeah, just thinking that 532 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: into my own personal you know, just buying Okay, how 533 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: how do I how do I wordless you know, down 534 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: the line when I'm trying to go through those same lessons, 535 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: you know, be Okay, you need to shoot it in 536 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: the head, but don't don't just focus like you know, 537 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: just make sure you focus and you shoot it out 538 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: the head. But don't if I tell you to shoot, 539 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: you know, tell me if you can't shoot, or something 540 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: like that. You see, what's the developmental thing that's going 541 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: on there with kids when they take you they're concrete thinkers. 542 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: They haven't developed abstract thought yet. So if you say, 543 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: don't shoot a turkey walking, your dad really didn't mean 544 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: that entirely. He just means if you have a choice, 545 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: and the turkeys, like, yeah, they're taking it concretely. They don't. 546 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: They're not picturing like they're just applying literal, concrete rules 547 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: to this. And that's pretty much the way kid should 548 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: take what their parents say during that period of their 549 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: life exactly what I say, don't take any liberty of 550 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: yourself to think on your own sort of Okay, my 551 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: my my favorite story, I think, and and all of 552 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: them had a lot of unique dynamics, but I liked 553 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: most story and part of so there's when I just 554 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: petition these guys to tell me their favorite turkey story. 555 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: In my mind, a turkey story was good because of 556 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: some dynamic hunting component or something like really exciting that 557 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: was said, but or exciting that happened, like a turkey 558 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: did something really wild. It was interesting for me to 559 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: hear all the reasons why because I didn't try to 560 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: coach him of like what why something would be good 561 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: or bad? And Jannat and Steve both said, hey, our 562 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: stories are like they kind of we're like, I hope 563 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: this is what you're looking for. And I was like, no, 564 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: you just you get to decide what your favorite again 565 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: story is. And so it's interesting for Johannese because he's 566 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: killed a lot of turkeys and had a lot of 567 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: real exciting hunts and he tells us one story about 568 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: his wife, you know. And then Steve has killed a 569 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: lot of turkeys, had a lot of exciting turkey hunts 570 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: and he tells the story about his daughter. I thought 571 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: os was interesting. I like that his dad woke him up. 572 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: And this is when Moe was an adult. His dad 573 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: woke him up and said you might as well go. 574 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: And that was a theme I know from talking to 575 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: Mo that that was the theme of his His dad 576 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: always used to say, I can't kill him when you're 577 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: on the couch like that was just just go, let's go. 578 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: And that's a good If you want to be a 579 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: successful hunter, you just gotta go. You can't wait for 580 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: conditions to always be right. His dad said, well, you 581 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: thought you heard one that's better than all the ones. Yeah, yeah, 582 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: And it basically two mornings, exact same scenario. Very unlikely. 583 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean, killing a bird and pouring down rain off 584 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: the roost. I mean, I would say is a highly 585 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: unlikely scenario to mourners row, same spot, same story. I mean, 586 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: that would never line up, That would line up once 587 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: in a lifetime for something like that to happen. I 588 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: thought it was pretty cool. One of my favorite quotes 589 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: from from one of the stories was Will Premost when 590 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: he said he said it may not have worked any 591 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: other day, but it worked exactly. That was good. That 592 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: was good. All right. I hold him my right hand 593 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: here the Arkansas Turkey Hunting guide Book, and so we're 594 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: gonna talk. We're gonna talk here to Mr Jeremy. We're 595 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: going to see if you have this memorize. I once 596 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: knew a guy This is a true story. I once 597 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: knew a guy and I can't say his name. He's 598 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: still alive. I mean, he's not even that old. And 599 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: he once handed us a book, me and my dad 600 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: about ornithology, ornithology, birds, study of birds and uh. And 601 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: he said he just handed it to it. He was 602 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: trying to show us that he knew a lot. And 603 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: he said, pick out any page on there and ask 604 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: me any question. And Dad, I was standing there, that 605 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: just picks it up, opens it up and says, all right, 606 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: page one thirty three, you know the speckled belly winged 607 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: Tarminger And he and he read verbatim like what it 608 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: said about that. The guy just like a freak genius. 609 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: And he said, I've memorized that book and he had, 610 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: he at least convinced us yeah this was let's unless 611 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: he had it rigged where you opened it up and 612 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: your fer went to like the same spot. Long story. Okay, 613 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: so Jeremy back to Jeremy man you are you're not 614 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: from Arkansas, but tell me a little bit about your 615 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: career and wildlife biology, like where have you been and 616 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: how did you get here? Okay? Yeah, so I mean, yeah, 617 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: transplant not not from Arkansas, from Massachusetts. Originally, UM went 618 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: to the University of Maine for my undergraduate and wildlife 619 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: coology and trying to figure out what I want to 620 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: do in this world. You know, I hadn't figured my 621 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: place by the time I finished my undergraduate degree, so 622 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: I jumped around the country. I lived in Wyoming, Louisiana, Florida, 623 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, working with different state agencies, different federal agencies, universities, 624 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: really trying to figure out my place in the world, 625 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: and got into working with wild turkeys under Mike Chamber 626 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: and their university UM. Early on, one of his grad 627 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: students took a chance on me. I hadn't had any 628 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: experience with game birds to that point, and you know, 629 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: I basically got hooked at that point with turkeys and 630 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: did that position. Jumped the next year, worked with another 631 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: graduate student before I ended up getting my own graduate 632 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: project under Mike back in So I did that for 633 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: a few years, graduated with my master's from the University 634 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: of Georgia, and then moved down to Florida, got with 635 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: their turkey program. I was their assistant wild turkey program 636 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: coordinator for about a year. When this opportunity came up 637 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: here in Arkansas, and I took a chance and agency 638 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: to chance. Uh so what year did you become the 639 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: wild turkey? About? Just here here late summer? So it's 640 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: my fourth season, fourth turkey season here in Arkansas, just 641 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: out of curiosity. When you were in Massachusetts, what got 642 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: you interested in wildlife? It was, you know, honestly, I 643 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: grew up fishing. My grandfather hunted his whole life. I 644 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: shot a little bit when I was growing up with him. 645 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: Never got into hunting. And I went to undergraduate thinking, 646 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna go on the wildlife side of things. 647 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: You know, I like to fish too much. I'm not 648 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: gonna I'm not gonna do that, you know, and go 649 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: for fisheries degree or anything like that. I'm gonna go 650 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: go for wildlife because fishing is what I love to do. 651 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to ruin that by going going to 652 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: work in wildlife. And next thing, you know, I got 653 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: into hunting outside of um undergraduate, you know, early twenties. 654 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: Once I graduated, I got into hunting, and it's you know, 655 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: been but I love affair basically ever since what was 656 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: your thesis on with so with Mike? So I looked 657 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: at the reproductive ecology of female wild turkeys. So they're 658 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: looking at nesting broodery and relation to small scale prescribed 659 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: fires during the nesting season. You know, obviously a lot 660 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: of that. Honestly, you know, very few nests are actually 661 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: lost the fire. You know, there's at least in that 662 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: in that system where I was at in southwest Georgia. 663 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean, they're managing it more for quail um, So 664 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: they're talking about a lot of smaller burns, um frequent fires, 665 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: and so they're burning on a two to three year 666 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: fire returnat well, sometimes sooner it depending on the objectives 667 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: and what they needed to do within that stand. But 668 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: you're talking about acreages that may range from you know, 669 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: fifty acres to a couple of hundred acres in size 670 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: and a typical burn and they may be doing to 671 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: three units a day if the conditions were right. We're 672 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: working in long leaf pine savannah, so really open, kind 673 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: of flat communities that you know, you let a match 674 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: and you could get them to roll across that fairly quickly. 675 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: But you know, in general, most of the stands of 676 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: those birds were targeting to nest. You know, we're about 677 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: a year to post fire and they weren't. They were 678 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: still a year or more out from from having another 679 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: burn rolled through there. So you know, we didn't lose 680 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: a single nest in the study to fire. When would 681 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: they burning? They're burning anywhere from January all the way 682 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: up into June. Really give us a give us a 683 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: rundown of the Arkansas turkey situation, because so two podcasts ago, 684 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, we talked with Mike Chamberlain and we always 685 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: hear how Arkansas is like the poster child for the 686 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: Southeast turkey decline. And so give us kind of a 687 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: timeline of history of the Arkansas turkey population to the 688 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: best of your knowledge, bringing it up till today. So 689 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, from from my understanding, basically, you know, if 690 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: if we go back about a hundred years or so, 691 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: you know, early nineteen hundreds, populations in the state were 692 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: you know, hitting there about lowest points. By nineteen thirty, 693 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, they're estimated wo be only about seven thousand 694 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: wild turkeys left in the state. Game Fish Commission was 695 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: created in around nineteen fifteen, and you know, late teens, 696 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: early twenties, they're already starting to think about, you know, 697 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: what they needed to do with wild turkeys started setting 698 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: seasons justin bag limits, though still incredibly liberal to what 699 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: you see today. But they also started considering restocking with 700 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: captive raised wild turkeys, you know, game farm birds, and 701 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: they put those out for many years and wasn't really 702 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: successful at all. Those birds didn't have the natural instincts, 703 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,439 Speaker 1: you know, to actually survive in the wild. They weren't 704 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 1: used to predators anything like that. It wasn't until rocket 705 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: nets were really picked up in popularity and that technique 706 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: was developed in the late forties early fifties that you know, 707 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: catching wild wild birds and moving this. That's when they 708 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: would put out bait for turkeys. Big flock of turkeys 709 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: would come in and they had rocket propelled nets that 710 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: would shoot out and catch a whole flock of turkeys 711 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: and then they take those turkeys transport them somewhere else. 712 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: So that was in the night, so they were able 713 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: and they were bringing turkeys in from other states or 714 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: just other places where we had turkeys some other states. 715 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: You know, we had some birds coming in from places 716 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: like Missouri. I think we did get some birds from 717 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania at points um both captive reared ones and actual 718 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: wild stock birds. But the majority of birds in the 719 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: state actually came from Brandywine Islands, an island over I 720 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: think it's Mississippi County in the middle of Mississippi River. 721 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: Really good turkey populations over there, and so they caught 722 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: a lot of birds there and moved them too different 723 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: kind of refuges around the state where they were stocked. 724 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: You know, early on, they let hunting still go and 725 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, realized that some of those situations wasn't working 726 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: that well. So they got to the point where they 727 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: started closing those areas for a period of years to 728 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: allow those birds to naturally repopulate the area and expand. 729 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: You know, I think they were estimating that they expand 730 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: somewhere ten to twenty miles over several years um and 731 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: kind of fill those those habitats at the time. And 732 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: so most of that restocking was finished by the the 733 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: early to mid nineties, though there were still so for 734 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: fifty years they were really stocking turkeys. Yeah, and the 735 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: majority of those, you know, they kind of focused in 736 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: and around the national forest lands and large public lands 737 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: because you know, early on the idea was that you know, 738 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: wild turkeys were you know, they needed thick forest, not 739 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: necessarily thick forest, but large expanses of forest, because that 740 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: those are the areas that turkeys were left, you know, 741 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 1: all these places that were harder to exploit. They hadn't 742 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: really been harassed to the point that they were extirpated 743 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: from the area like they were in a lot of 744 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: other areas where there was there was more people and 745 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: it was easier access. So you know, those early efforts 746 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: focused there first and then built upon it. It wasn't 747 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,319 Speaker 1: until you started getting into the seventies and eighties and 748 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: maybe the nineties where they started looking at what they 749 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: considered these more marginal habitats where you had this more 750 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: of a combination interspersion of kind of open land and 751 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: forested habitats and realized that that's actually more of an 752 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: ideal turkey habitats. And that's when populations really exped and 753 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: and so the Arkansas turkey populations by the late seventies 754 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: and eighties just skyrocketed. Yeah, they started to jump. I mean, 755 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: I think there were some periods, you know, even back 756 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties that you saw these fluctuations 757 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: where we had good numbers and then there were some 758 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: bad years, you know, following poor weather events poor hatches, 759 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,280 Speaker 1: but in general that trend was continuing to to increase 760 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: all through time, and we hit about the early two thousands, 761 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: and that's when when things peak, you know, the late 762 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: late nineties, early two thousands. You know, we ended up 763 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 1: The highest harvest year we had was two thousand and three. 764 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: The state we harvest had just under twenty thousand turkeys 765 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: that year, and then there was we refer to that 766 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: time period as the good old days. Yes, yes, that's 767 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 1: what I hear off them. So twenty thousand was our 768 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: biggest number of birds taken, Yes, yes, just under that. 769 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: Now that that's always been an interesting number to me, 770 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: because like Missouri, they might kill fifty thousand turkeys, Is 771 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: that about right? Yeah? I mean in recent years has 772 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: been a lot less, but I think at their peak, 773 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: which was in and around that same time, they killed 774 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: about sixty thousand turkeys up there, that's a lot. And 775 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: I know you can't it's not comparing apples to apples, 776 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: to compare to states. I mean, they had a lot 777 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: of agg land, maybe more agg land than us. I 778 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: don't know what about Mississippi. What would have there been 779 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: their peak harvest numbers? I can't remember exactly what their 780 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: peaks were, but you know, I think typically you see 781 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: nowadays that they estimate somewhere in the twenty five to 782 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,720 Speaker 1: thirty thousand range. It was probably somewhat higher and higher 783 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: than Arkansas that yeah, yeah, I can't remember what those 784 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: figures were exactly, but it was probably you know, thirty 785 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: five forty thousand something. Would Oklahoma not have had more 786 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,439 Speaker 1: birds than us even historically at our peak. Oklahoma gets 787 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: difficult because you start moving into Rio Grand wild turkeys 788 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: and the majority of the state and you know, basically 789 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: your southeastern corner of the states where you're you have 790 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: true Easterns and then they you know, they talk about 791 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: this sort of hybrid zone between the two, but the 792 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: majority of the kind of central and western portion of 793 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: the states Rio, So it starts getting a little different 794 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: when you know, it gets to that apples to oranges comparison. 795 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 1: To truly say what's going on, I honestly can't couldn't 796 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: tell you what their harvests look like through time. Yeah, well, 797 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of it's interesting to me when we talk 798 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: about the turkey situation here in Arkansas, because really it's 799 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: a pretty i mean, twenty years isn't that long when 800 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: you're looking at wildlife management and looking at like a 801 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: broad scale of animal population is going up and down. Um, 802 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: And and humans including myself and Josh are pretty finicky 803 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to uh, turkey numbers. Um. I mean 804 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: you can go from a three year period and people 805 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: might say, oh, man, there's no turkeys anymore, and you know, 806 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: three years before they were wearing them out, you know, 807 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: but just to get just so so I can be 808 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: clear on this, what you're describing is an enormous amount 809 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: of effort to get turkeys, which was still lower than 810 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: what are the surrounding states had at our peak. We 811 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: were still smaller. Yeah, and that and the other states 812 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: put forth the effort that we did. It's it's hard 813 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: as far as restocking them. Yeah, so I mean mostly yep, yep, 814 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: all these all these are this was happening across the 815 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: country during this entire period. Um. You know, north south 816 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: Louisiana to Wisconsin east, you know, the Maine in Florida, 817 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, all those states were experiencing these same declines, 818 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,839 Speaker 1: you know, in the early nineteen hundreds and then through 819 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 1: time through the middle nineteen hundreds really started ramping up 820 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: that um those efforts in restock, and I think Mississippi 821 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 1: was one of those states that was was fairly early 822 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: in there where they considered things to be successful and 823 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,919 Speaker 1: kind of complete. We we were right there, probably within 824 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: a few years of what they would have assumed. And 825 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: so you can't really, like me, comparing Arkansas Missouri is 826 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: really not fair. I mean, Missouri might be bigger, I 827 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: don't know, it just says a different habitats, so that's 828 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,839 Speaker 1: not really relevant. But I just kind of was trying 829 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: to get like a bigger picture of because that was 830 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: my understanding is that Missouri has always killed a bunch 831 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: more than us. Mississippi is always killed a bunch more 832 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: than us. What's interested is, you know a lot of 833 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: people look at those bordering states, but I very rarely 834 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: hear folks look south of the border. You know that 835 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: they don't talk about Louisiana often. And you know, that's 836 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: one of the things that I've tried to do since 837 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: I got here was kind of take a look at 838 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: that that landscape context. What are we looking at here 839 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: in Arkansas? Because you know, people talk about that that 840 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: twenty thousand birds, and you know there's some some interesting things, 841 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, in regards to what our regulations were like 842 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: at that time to where we're at now. That that 843 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: make it even harder to compare harvest to now to 844 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,040 Speaker 1: back then. But when you just look at the landscape context, 845 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: you know, most of Arkansas are a larger proportion of 846 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 1: Arkansas looks a lot like Louisiana, and I feel they 847 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: typically harvest you know, about three to five thousand birds 848 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: or so on average their estimates, Yeah, between their you know, 849 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: game check and then their estimates you know on hunter surveys, 850 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: their estimating right in that ballpark. So we're just a 851 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: little bit above that. And then you move into Missouri 852 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,360 Speaker 1: and you know, obviously they're they're killing a ton of 853 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,280 Speaker 1: different birds. But you know, Arkansas is this unique mix 854 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: of these different regional landskates all coming together. I mean essentially, yeah, 855 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the Ozarks on the kind of 856 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: the northern quarter of the state. You're moving down south 857 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,240 Speaker 1: below the River Valley. You know, that's a whole unique area. 858 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: Then you get into the Washington Mountains below that, you've 859 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,240 Speaker 1: got that large pro portion of the states, the Gulf 860 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: Coastal Plain, you know, primarily pine managed timber and then 861 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: you move over in the entire eastern about quarter to 862 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: third of the states that's really developed m agricultural land, 863 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: bottom land laying around all these major river corridors. So 864 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: you know that really the only remaining habitat out there 865 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,399 Speaker 1: is the bottom land tracks along the White Cash River, 866 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, Crowley's Ridge, that formation. But outside of that, 867 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's essentially non habitat. So you know, that 868 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: really restricts the amount of available habitat. And it's like 869 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,640 Speaker 1: the eastern third of the state at least, it's like 870 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 1: pretty limited turkey habitat. I mean, what he's saying is 871 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: just along the rivers and stuff. There's there's places for him. Um, okay, 872 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you. I want 873 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: to ask you about three things. I want to talk 874 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: about burning big national forests and specifically the timing of it. 875 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about bag limits, and 876 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about this is kind 877 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: of like your personal opinion of what's what's going on, 878 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: because I think there's a lot. So I'm declaring that. 879 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: So ah, y'all canna help me stay on track, Okay, Oh, 880 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 1: we'll help you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. So, man, I 881 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: understand like anybody that's paying attention to wild turkey management 882 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: has heard this statement and can grab onto it pretty easily. 883 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 1: Is that burning helps turkeys more than it helps them. Yeah, 884 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 1: maybe if fire would burn up and nests as possible, 885 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: but turkeys can have another nest in the same spring. 886 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm just giving you the simple version. But what happens 887 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: when you burn is that's one spring, and then the 888 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,400 Speaker 1: habitat has improved so much the next however many years 889 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 1: that anything you lost during that one spring has gained 890 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: so much more in previous years. Because Mr nukelem everybody 891 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: where I grew up, everybody. This week I heard it 892 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 1: from a guy. He said, Man, we used to have 893 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,239 Speaker 1: turkeys in the National Forest. Boy started burning all the 894 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: timber in in April, burning up at turkey nests. That 895 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: actually sounds like his accent um. And uh. And I 896 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,839 Speaker 1: didn't even I mean, I didn't even want to get 897 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: into it with him. But that was that guy. And 898 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: then I heard another guy who I deeply respect, who 899 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: has a wildlife biology degree, who gave a little ramp 900 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,319 Speaker 1: the other day and he, uh, he said, I know 901 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 1: all the benefits of burns, like you don't have to 902 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 1: tell me about the benefits of burns and how it 903 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,879 Speaker 1: helps Turkey habitat. But he says, we're burning so late 904 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: that we're inevitably burning up nests and inevitably putting birds 905 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: at in a vulnerable place by having them to lay 906 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: eggs again and make a second clutch. And basically he 907 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,760 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I've heard all that stuff about good habitat, 908 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,080 Speaker 1: but we're still burning up nests and really compromising the 909 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,040 Speaker 1: hands ability to nest. Do you understand what I'm talking about, mister? 910 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,279 Speaker 1: I do. I'm What I don't understand is why I'm 911 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 1: the fall guy for the person who doesn't know much 912 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: in this particular tricky experts. Right, No, No, I don't. 913 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you're following. So do 914 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: you understand what I'm saying? So what's the truth? Man? So? 915 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, no to fires are created equal 916 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: that you know that's the reality. And you know a 917 00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: lot of people that look at the national forests and 918 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: you know what's going on there, and you know, you 919 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: gotta remember that that's only a signy segment of this 920 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,360 Speaker 1: entire state. So the idea that you know we're burning 921 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: up all the nests and that's what's causing population to 922 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,279 Speaker 1: clients in this entire state, you know, is probably a 923 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: little bit near sided. I mean, they're they're not right there. 924 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:05,919 Speaker 1: Before you even get on, because that's a good point. 925 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not just on national forests that turkeys 926 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,040 Speaker 1: are scrambling. Yep, yep, exactly. That's kind of your point. 927 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: It's like, well, then it must not be the fire. Yeah, 928 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: not necessarily. I mean there there still is, you know, 929 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: obviously issues. You know, most of the research that's out 930 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: there these days suggest that there is really minimal loss 931 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: due to fire. It's not saying that there's not potentially 932 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: lost happening, but you know it in the grand scheme 933 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: of things, with all the other factors that are out there, 934 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: it's it's relatively small fish, you know, and most people 935 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, I put this out in a lot of 936 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 1: the presentations that I do. You know, you walk up 937 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: on a turkey nest that's in one of those burns, 938 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,400 Speaker 1: you see it. You know, it's it's either got a 939 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,000 Speaker 1: bunch of crushed eggs or it's got a bunch of 940 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,840 Speaker 1: whole eggs. You don't know the whole story, Ben, what 941 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: what's actually happened there. So you know, I look back 942 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,360 Speaker 1: to my master's degree, and we're looking specifically these burns, 943 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,799 Speaker 1: specifically this time of year. Granted, these are a lot 944 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: smaller scale than what we're talking about here, you know, 945 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,879 Speaker 1: on national forests and maybe thousands of acres. But you'd 946 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: walk up on a nest and you say, okay, well 947 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,400 Speaker 1: that that burned. But well, now I know that this 948 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,359 Speaker 1: one has had a GPS transmitter on it. I can 949 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,480 Speaker 1: go back and I can look and see see what 950 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,120 Speaker 1: happened and realize, you know, she abandoned the nest two 951 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,160 Speaker 1: days before this fire ever showed up. Nothing had taken 952 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 1: those eggs. You walk in there, you know it's been burned. 953 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,279 Speaker 1: The eggs are clearly visible. You assume, you know, if 954 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,640 Speaker 1: you don't have that information, that that that nest was 955 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 1: was burned up, and so that that kind of further 956 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,480 Speaker 1: some of those simple story to say that the fires, 957 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: but what did it? But but you don't know that 958 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: whole back story, and and so there's more things to 959 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,759 Speaker 1: go into it. Why wouldn't they just not burn in April? Yeah? 960 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 1: The reality you know here national forest land, I mean, 961 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 1: you have so many thousands of acres that you're millions 962 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,440 Speaker 1: acres that you're attempting to manage for, and they're managing 963 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,040 Speaker 1: for for multiple uses. It's not just turkey population. I wish, 964 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, as a as a turkey biologist, that we 965 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: could manage every you know, acre in the state for 966 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: wild turkeys. But that's, you know, not the reality. They're 967 00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: they're they're burning for you know, fuels, met again sation, 968 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,319 Speaker 1: you know, to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfires, all 969 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,640 Speaker 1: of these different things. And you've got to kind of 970 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: get those burns and wildfires in Arkansas. I'm sure there 971 00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,399 Speaker 1: have been at some point, I know in recent years. 972 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: You know, you look east of us in Tennessee. You know, 973 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: you had those big fires that occurred. I think it 974 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: was around Gatlinburg and in that area. I mean, so 975 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: there is the potential in the east, particularly with some 976 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: of the fuel loads we have. You think about how 977 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,000 Speaker 1: overstocked a lot of our timber is these days, and 978 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 1: the fuel loads that are in there because they haven't burned. 979 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 1: I mean, historically a lot of Arkansas would have been 980 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,840 Speaker 1: kind of woodlands, savannah type habitats particularly and your your uplands, 981 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, the top of these hills and stuff like 982 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: that that you know, fires would have moved through frequently 983 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,560 Speaker 1: and it would have reduced some of that naturally. But 984 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,880 Speaker 1: now we have so much you know, over stocked timber, 985 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,919 Speaker 1: a lot of just dead decame fuel because we spent 986 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: years and years and years trying to keep those fires 987 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: at bay. You know, if we did have a wildfire 988 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: pop up, you try to you know, knock it out, 989 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,200 Speaker 1: stomp it out as quick as you could, so it 990 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,239 Speaker 1: didn't burn a lot of acres. In reality, that probably 991 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 1: would have been have been better if you could have 992 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,160 Speaker 1: just let it, let it go burn. So that time 993 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,919 Speaker 1: period is just kind of when they can burn. Yeah, 994 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: it's the best time period for burning there. So so 995 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: what you're saying is if we were managing solely for 996 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,320 Speaker 1: wild turkeys, we wouldn't burn during that time. Yeah, not necessarily, 997 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,479 Speaker 1: I mean, and I tell managers this all the time. 998 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: You know, when we look at game fish on properties 999 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,200 Speaker 1: in particular, you know, you've got to look holistically, what 1000 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: you're talking about, what the habitats telling you. Um, you know, ideally, 1001 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, we burn in the dormant season, you know, 1002 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,360 Speaker 1: and this is you know a little bit of arbitrary, 1003 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,319 Speaker 1: but you know, January into mid March or something like that, 1004 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,960 Speaker 1: try to finish it up and then you know, now 1005 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,720 Speaker 1: we're starting to shift what we consider growing season fires, 1006 00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,920 Speaker 1: which could be anywhere from mid late March, early April 1007 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,759 Speaker 1: all the way and through you know, October November. You know, 1008 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,120 Speaker 1: while those trees are still actively sending nutrients up and down, 1009 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,759 Speaker 1: we can still get a lot of the same benefits 1010 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,800 Speaker 1: of burning you know, April and May, if the conditions 1011 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,719 Speaker 1: were there. We can get those same benefit fits burning August, September, October, 1012 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,840 Speaker 1: if we can get those same weather variables in line, 1013 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: so we can run the fire at that point. So 1014 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,640 Speaker 1: generally we we try to avoid that nesting season as 1015 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,600 Speaker 1: an agency. But you know, if if it comes up, 1016 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: if you know, you've got to stand that's you know, 1017 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,120 Speaker 1: towards the end of its rotation. It needs to be burned, 1018 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: you know. And and we're talking about it's already missed, 1019 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, one window, and you're saying, well, you know, 1020 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,480 Speaker 1: it's turkey season. You know, we we can't burn if 1021 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,200 Speaker 1: if you keep doing that, you know, if you never 1022 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,280 Speaker 1: get anything accomplished because you have so many different seasons. 1023 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: I am, I am, you know, I tell folks all 1024 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,840 Speaker 1: the time. You know, if if that conditions allow, you know, 1025 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,560 Speaker 1: and you've got the burn weather, because you know, not 1026 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,400 Speaker 1: every day is is equal when it comes to the 1027 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,520 Speaker 1: weather for burning. You've got to have certain variables I'll 1028 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 1: have to line up. So if you hit one of 1029 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: those days, you better take advantage of it, because the 1030 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,560 Speaker 1: idea that if you don't burn that and then you know, 1031 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,279 Speaker 1: you hit later in the fall, you may not be 1032 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,120 Speaker 1: able to burn it then. And now we're talking a year, 1033 00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 1: two years post when you could have burned an Now 1034 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,480 Speaker 1: we're we're outside of the usable space, you know, for 1035 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,239 Speaker 1: a turkey nowt so thick that they don't want to 1036 00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,400 Speaker 1: touch it, and it may end up costing you a 1037 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,200 Speaker 1: lot more money to go in there with herbicide or 1038 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, bringing in something to masticate, you know, mulch 1039 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: that that timber to get it back to a point 1040 00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,400 Speaker 1: where you could roll a fire through it. And that's 1041 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,200 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot more expensive, and it may take 1042 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,680 Speaker 1: years in the budget to be able to afford to 1043 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,040 Speaker 1: do that and have it have it set aside. So 1044 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden, you went from having 1045 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: something that yeah, you may have lost one nest this year, 1046 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,640 Speaker 1: but now you've instead of burning it, now you have 1047 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: no nests in it for the next handful of years. 1048 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 1: Or the predation rate on those ones is so much 1049 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,240 Speaker 1: higher that by getting it done, you lose that nest. Yeah, 1050 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 1: this year, but hopefully you've benefited the same block of 1051 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,760 Speaker 1: woods every single year, right, I mean there, And so 1052 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 1: that's the other thing to think about. It's like, yeah, 1053 00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,360 Speaker 1: maybe the south side of that mountain this year gets burned. 1054 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe maybe a turkey loses her nest and 1055 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: maybe she's unsuccessful nest and later worst case scenario, but 1056 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: they're not gonna burn it for another how many years? 1057 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 1: What's the cycle on some of those, you know, depending here, 1058 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, it could be two to three years down 1059 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of this, particularly the Gulf coastal flane 1060 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 1: and and maybe in some of the washtaws and the 1061 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,600 Speaker 1: pine blue stem. You know, you get up here in 1062 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: the Ozarks, you're probably talking three, four or five years. 1063 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: You get spread out a little bit for four years 1064 00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:22,320 Speaker 1: of greatly improved habitat for them to have great potential 1065 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,680 Speaker 1: nesting with no fires at all. Right, Yeah, since I'm 1066 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 1: the fall guy for people who who who are unaware 1067 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,280 Speaker 1: of a fire extinguisher here if you need it? All right, So, 1068 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,880 Speaker 1: I guess how long does it take for a turkey 1069 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,200 Speaker 1: to settle into a place? Like? Is four years enough 1070 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,160 Speaker 1: time for a turkey to say? Oh? I like that? 1071 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean that is help? What is it's almost immediate? 1072 00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean those birds, I mean, if they typically their 1073 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 1: home range isn't probably gonna get changed all that much 1074 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,480 Speaker 1: as a fire that's going out, they'll move out. But 1075 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm honestly that they move right back in. I mean 1076 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the research that Mike and a lot 1077 00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 1: of other folks have done in the southeastern recent years, 1078 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,680 Speaker 1: I mean, those birds are moving back in there. You. 1079 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 1: I think it's something like fifty percent of the birds 1080 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,439 Speaker 1: that we've had marked move back into a burned area 1081 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,120 Speaker 1: within forty eight hours and by you know, the end 1082 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:09,160 Speaker 1: of a week. It's like, I'm surprised you didn't know that. 1083 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 1: Ye do other states, And I know we can't compare 1084 00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,320 Speaker 1: it to not apples to apples. I'm just curious, mainly 1085 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,240 Speaker 1: because I'd like to figure out the turkey situation, because 1086 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 1: it is the real stress is it's the end of 1087 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,200 Speaker 1: April and we don't have a Turkey in the Newcomes. 1088 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,560 Speaker 1: Miss wakes up all their in Turkey season and it's like, 1089 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,080 Speaker 1: are you gonna go kill a Turkey today? And I 1090 00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,520 Speaker 1: usually he's like no, and it really bothers her. It 1091 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,240 Speaker 1: doesn't that why I'm having to provide your family Rainbow Trout. 1092 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,440 Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. Do other states? There are other 1093 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,520 Speaker 1: states seeing a decline like we are for sure? For sure? 1094 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,160 Speaker 1: And are they Burnie, Yes, yes, I mean a lot 1095 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:46,920 Speaker 1: of a lot of those states. You know this. Missy's 1096 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 1: gonna have it all figured out. She's gonna tell us 1097 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: like something that Mike Chamberlain and Jeremy never thought of. 1098 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 1: She's gonna be like, well, why don't you just we 1099 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: don't even know what that X is? Yeah, didn't you 1100 00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,919 Speaker 1: listen to the podcast with Mike Chamberlain? You didn't? Did 1101 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,760 Speaker 1: that was two podcasts you weren't on the render. Yeah, 1102 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,040 Speaker 1: so we talked all about the southeast decline of Turkey. 1103 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Isaac take that out? Uh um, Okay, that's great, Burns 1104 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,919 Speaker 1: got it, got it? Yeah? My, So that's good. Number two, 1105 01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,960 Speaker 1: bats bag limits. Is it just a social issue that 1106 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,320 Speaker 1: we don't just say one Turkey? By social you mean 1107 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,840 Speaker 1: like political? I mean, is it. Yes, people, I think 1108 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that that look at bag 1109 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: limits like they're the the end all be all, like 1110 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 1: if if we we do this. You know, here in Arkansas, 1111 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 1: we've got a relatively conservative bag limit already. We have, 1112 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: you know, it's a two turkey bag limit in the state. 1113 01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:44,840 Speaker 1: Got other states in the southeast that have made some 1114 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: changes recently, but a lot of them have had three, four, 1115 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:53,680 Speaker 1: even five until recently I think just I think just 1116 01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,480 Speaker 1: this year they moved from five down to four. But 1117 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: it's still, you know, relatively high number. And you know, 1118 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,080 Speaker 1: when you start getting up three, four or five birds 1119 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,480 Speaker 1: and your bag limit, you know, you can have potentially 1120 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,680 Speaker 1: a disproportionate amount of your harvest come come from those 1121 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,000 Speaker 1: folks that are harvesting much more than two. But you know, 1122 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,720 Speaker 1: here in Arkansas we've had you know, two bird bag 1123 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,400 Speaker 1: limits for for many years, even three, you know, going 1124 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,880 Speaker 1: back into the seventies, eighties, nine, early nineties, you know 1125 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,840 Speaker 1: around there in portions of the state, um particularly like 1126 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,600 Speaker 1: along the Mississippi River, some areas in the Washingtas and 1127 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,520 Speaker 1: you know the reality is, you know, that was all 1128 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,320 Speaker 1: occurring while populations were rebounding you know, being actively stocked. 1129 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: So we had a higher bag limit earlier when there 1130 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,360 Speaker 1: were a lot less turkey hunters on the landscape, but 1131 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: when those turkeys were you know, just basically becoming kind 1132 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,080 Speaker 1: of whole, you know, coming back around. Um, you know, 1133 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,680 Speaker 1: I look at it now, nine percent of our harvest 1134 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,400 Speaker 1: in Arkansas comes from folks filling just that first tag. Okay, 1135 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,000 Speaker 1: that's a great, Okay, that's that's the kind of reasoning 1136 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,640 Speaker 1: I needed to hear. That makes sense. That's like, not 1137 01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,680 Speaker 1: a ton of people are killing two turkeys. Yeah, not 1138 01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,480 Speaker 1: not at all. I mean in general. I mean we're 1139 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,000 Speaker 1: talking with the recent years where our harvest has been 1140 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,560 Speaker 1: in the seven eight thousand kind of range. We're looking 1141 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,160 Speaker 1: at seven hundred eight hundred turkeys, you know, out of 1142 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: the entire harvest being somebody's second bird. And you know, 1143 01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: there's been interesting. Yeah, there's there's been times in the past, 1144 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, the nineties, particularly Washtas. I looked at this 1145 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,200 Speaker 1: just recently because we do have a proposal out there 1146 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,280 Speaker 1: right now to to move to a one bird limit. 1147 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't something that the Turkey program put out there, 1148 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,480 Speaker 1: but it was something that came from some public comment. 1149 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,760 Speaker 1: The agency decided to put it out for public comment 1150 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,440 Speaker 1: during a recent REIG survey. So what I did was 1151 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,480 Speaker 1: I look back at these seven or so counties in 1152 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,919 Speaker 1: the in the Washtas where they went from a three 1153 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,440 Speaker 1: bird bag limit to a two bird bag limit, to 1154 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,440 Speaker 1: a one bird bag limit and then back to a 1155 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,320 Speaker 1: two bird bag of lim whis which we have still 1156 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,520 Speaker 1: through today. And what you see is, you know, populations 1157 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,880 Speaker 1: were declining a bit. You know, reproduction have been kind 1158 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: of poor in general terms. When you look back now, 1159 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,120 Speaker 1: you know the reproduction compared to now to back then 1160 01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,440 Speaker 1: it usually yeah pretty good. Uh, you know it's declining. 1161 01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,439 Speaker 1: You shall harvest the climb. So the institute a two 1162 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,320 Speaker 1: bird bag limit, population continued to decline or the harvest 1163 01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,120 Speaker 1: continue to climb, but you moved to a one bird 1164 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,600 Speaker 1: bag limit. There really wasn't any difference between those two 1165 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,280 Speaker 1: year two bird limit ears and that one bird limit 1166 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,440 Speaker 1: ear because again there's there's not that many more birds 1167 01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: getting shot because somebody's killing a second one and in 1168 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,200 Speaker 1: most cases you're probably just seeing other people fill that tag. 1169 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,040 Speaker 1: You know, if you were restricted to one, you didn't 1170 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:28,800 Speaker 1: get to go, but you know you took your son 1171 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,400 Speaker 1: out Okay, man, that's yeah, that's a great, that's a great. 1172 01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,240 Speaker 1: That's a great analogy. Now I can see if you 1173 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,919 Speaker 1: had a five bird bag limit and guys really had 1174 01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,440 Speaker 1: some you know, their spots dialed in and had the time, 1175 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,520 Speaker 1: and we're really good turkey hunters, like you could really 1176 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: hurt something. But with a two bird I see how 1177 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:53,120 Speaker 1: that the possibilities are less for for hurting. And man, 1178 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,680 Speaker 1: I like that. I don't know, you know, I put 1179 01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,400 Speaker 1: on that survey that I would be fine with a 1180 01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 1: one bird bag limit, like I just wouldn't be a problem, 1181 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,920 Speaker 1: just thinking, you know, we've got to sacrifice some for 1182 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,680 Speaker 1: the resource. But I'm one of those guys that I mean, 1183 01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's been a long time 1184 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,520 Speaker 1: since I've killed two turkeys in Arkansas, and so you know, 1185 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,680 Speaker 1: maybe to me that's not a big deal, but yeah, 1186 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,360 Speaker 1: I mean you think about the opportunity that's lost to 1187 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,200 Speaker 1: that point you go from two to one, you know, 1188 01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,720 Speaker 1: Like for me, I was I was successful this year. 1189 01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,160 Speaker 1: I went an open to day. I was lucky enough 1190 01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:29,160 Speaker 1: I got a bird. Guy of Shring tied up there 1191 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:30,520 Speaker 1: for me so I could got to make sure I 1192 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,360 Speaker 1: got a bird. This year, I probably had a live 1193 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,160 Speaker 1: hand decoy. But I mean, now, you know, obviously we've 1194 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 1: we've kind of limited that harvest in the front end 1195 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,720 Speaker 1: of the season. So when we consider, you know, some 1196 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,040 Speaker 1: of that harvest could be more impactful to to that 1197 01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,720 Speaker 1: breeding chronology, we tried to limit that push some of 1198 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,560 Speaker 1: that back a little bit too later in the season 1199 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,120 Speaker 1: when it may be less impactful. So you know, I've 1200 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: got that bird, I'm out of the woods for seven days. 1201 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,600 Speaker 1: There's a new there's a new regulation misty where if 1202 01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,080 Speaker 1: you kill a turkey you can't kill another one. If 1203 01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: you kill one the first week, any time within the 1204 01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,600 Speaker 1: first seven days, you can't go until basically the eight 1205 01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: day of the season. So this morning, if I killed 1206 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,080 Speaker 1: one on the first day, which I wasn't even in 1207 01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,680 Speaker 1: the country, I couldn't hunted until later in the week 1208 01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,680 Speaker 1: because that that kind of takes away a little bit 1209 01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,840 Speaker 1: of an opportunity for a second bird. But if you 1210 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,920 Speaker 1: could take somebody else hunting, like if I had some 1211 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: birds dialed in, I mean that second day, I could 1212 01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:29,000 Speaker 1: have taken my son or taken Josh. Josh is just 1213 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,840 Speaker 1: sitting nowhere there. You can't go turkey out. You mustache. 1214 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,160 Speaker 1: I have a stick on breaks up your outline. Turkeys 1215 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,320 Speaker 1: recognized human faith. If you have a big line across 1216 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:43,560 Speaker 1: the it doesn't work. I don't know. Okay, So that 1217 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:47,920 Speaker 1: that that clears it up with me on on bag limits. Um, 1218 01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,120 Speaker 1: it's like a the whole thing is sort of like 1219 01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,880 Speaker 1: all the problems in life. Right now, we assume the 1220 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,880 Speaker 1: simplest you know, you want to make it a really 1221 01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,160 Speaker 1: simple it's because of this, but in reality, everything's lot 1222 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,920 Speaker 1: more comment it's a you know, like Chamberlain said, like 1223 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,880 Speaker 1: everybody said, it's death by a thousand cuts, and and 1224 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,720 Speaker 1: like I always go back to, you can't trust the 1225 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,920 Speaker 1: ground nesting bird because they're they're going to create problems 1226 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,240 Speaker 1: for you. There's just so many reasons why ground nesting 1227 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,800 Speaker 1: birds have trouble but also can do really great. But okay, 1228 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, and this is uh, like, 1229 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,280 Speaker 1: why are our turkeys declining? Like okay, off the record, 1230 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna turn this off. Okay, wink wink. 1231 01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,480 Speaker 1: Why what do you what's what is I mean? We 1232 01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: already know everything that like everybody said, you know, it's 1233 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,640 Speaker 1: it's just like death by thousand cuts. It's can be 1234 01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:47,520 Speaker 1: bag limits, it can be predation. It's the the forest regime. 1235 01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:52,000 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why. Why, what's the real reason? Yeah, 1236 01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:56,000 Speaker 1: what's the what are you hiding from us? Jerry? I 1237 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,920 Speaker 1: wish it was as easy to just pulling something out 1238 01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,040 Speaker 1: of the bag of tricks. I'm saying, yeah, this is it, 1239 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, that that smoking gun, that silver bullet, that 1240 01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,120 Speaker 1: would fix everything. I mean, I think there's a lot 1241 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,600 Speaker 1: of stuff that's going into what's what's gone on here 1242 01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:10,320 Speaker 1: in the state in Arkansas, UM, you know, coming in 1243 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,080 Speaker 1: from that outside perspective, not being from here. You know, 1244 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,080 Speaker 1: I'm thankful that I I didn't experience turkey populations in 1245 01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the early two thousands. You know, I was alive, but 1246 01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't hunting turkeys at that point. I wasn't hunting 1247 01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,960 Speaker 1: turkeys in the South in particular. So you know, I 1248 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,320 Speaker 1: started hunting turkeys in my mid twenties, twenty three, twenty four, 1249 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,360 Speaker 1: somewhere in that ballpark. And I've never had a bad 1250 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,840 Speaker 1: turkey hunt. And I've never had a bad turkey season 1251 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,760 Speaker 1: since I started hunting, mostly public land, but I never 1252 01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:37,760 Speaker 1: had that experience. You know, I hear from most folks 1253 01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,200 Speaker 1: that I used to go out to the spot and 1254 01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,640 Speaker 1: I'd hear twelve birds gobl on the ridge that I've 1255 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,240 Speaker 1: never had that. I mean, I've had some spots where 1256 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,360 Speaker 1: I've heard three, four or five something like that, but 1257 01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,680 Speaker 1: but still all in these recent years. And you know, 1258 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 1: I kill some, I don't kill some of other chances, 1259 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,240 Speaker 1: but I've heard birds goblin. It's it's great experience. But 1260 01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,000 Speaker 1: if some of it you're dealing with that expectation that 1261 01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, you've got folks that that started turkey hunting 1262 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 1: right there when things were perfect, those populations were at 1263 01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,600 Speaker 1: their highest point, but it may not have been you know, sustainable, 1264 01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 1: that may not have been the reality. In particularly what 1265 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,440 Speaker 1: I look at here in the state is you know, 1266 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,600 Speaker 1: thinking about the number of turkey hunters that we were 1267 01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,000 Speaker 1: on the landscape. You know, you think about you know, 1268 01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,000 Speaker 1: if you're around you're hunting in the eighties, maybe even 1269 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,760 Speaker 1: the early nineties. You know, a lot of folks that 1270 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,080 Speaker 1: I talked to the count on one hand, the number 1271 01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,280 Speaker 1: of other turkey hunters they even knew, you know, they 1272 01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,120 Speaker 1: were hunting in the area that they hunted, and you know, 1273 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:29,920 Speaker 1: you get into the late nineties, you know, you were 1274 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,599 Speaker 1: talking with Will and the previous podcasts and thinking about 1275 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: the truth and you know, all of that kind of 1276 01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,560 Speaker 1: blowing up and people just eating all that information, explosion 1277 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,840 Speaker 1: of turkey hunting knowledge and people wanting to become turkey hunters. Yeah, 1278 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:44,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of like what they talked about in the 1279 01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,439 Speaker 1: waterfowl world, like this duck dynasty bump, you know, and 1280 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,479 Speaker 1: hunter numbers. And I think we saw that at that 1281 01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,800 Speaker 1: time when things were peaking. And then you know, when 1282 01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,840 Speaker 1: you look back in time, you know, I think Mike 1283 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,400 Speaker 1: brought this up where you know, it was kind of 1284 01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,520 Speaker 1: right there under our fingers, but we didn't really recognize 1285 01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,280 Speaker 1: what was happening at the time because a couple of 1286 01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,320 Speaker 1: bad years in a row wasn't wasn't that big of 1287 01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:07,280 Speaker 1: a deal in the grand scheme of things at that time. 1288 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,680 Speaker 1: But now twenty years later, you know, we can look 1289 01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,400 Speaker 1: back and see how long that actually, you know, continue 1290 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,559 Speaker 1: to occur in reproduction kept declining, and you know here 1291 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,639 Speaker 1: in the state, you know, you saw the agency look 1292 01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,120 Speaker 1: at how good populations were doing, look at the interests. 1293 01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,800 Speaker 1: They started adding more days to the season. So you 1294 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,880 Speaker 1: went from you know, the mid eighties through the early 1295 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,960 Speaker 1: two thousands, you were looking I think we had about 1296 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,439 Speaker 1: twenty three twenty four day long season about where we're 1297 01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,320 Speaker 1: at now with the youth hunt, and all of a 1298 01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,599 Speaker 1: sudden you started going up into thirty thirty five days, 1299 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,840 Speaker 1: thirty nine days by two thousand three, two thousand and four, 1300 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,320 Speaker 1: And that's an incredible amount of pressure to put on 1301 01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:47,720 Speaker 1: that that population and in a short period of time. 1302 01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:49,360 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of birds, but there's a lot 1303 01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,840 Speaker 1: more turkey hunters coming into the fold at that time, 1304 01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:54,760 Speaker 1: so people were really being successful. And but I think 1305 01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,880 Speaker 1: what we do was the overshot. You know, at that 1306 01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,120 Speaker 1: period of time, it's not likely that you know, I 1307 01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:00,960 Speaker 1: think we we look out there and we say, okay, 1308 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, harvest is estimated at roughly ten percent of 1309 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,559 Speaker 1: your population, and so you extrapolate out from that number 1310 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,960 Speaker 1: what you anticipate your population was. And we would have said, okay, 1311 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,000 Speaker 1: we were nearly two hundred thousand turkeys back around that time. 1312 01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:15,759 Speaker 1: But if we were over harvesting them at that period 1313 01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,000 Speaker 1: of time, it's it's unlikely that we were ever truly 1314 01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,000 Speaker 1: that that hive of population. We had a better population 1315 01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,800 Speaker 1: than we do now, but it's hard to go back 1316 01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: and look at that and then compare it to now 1317 01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,799 Speaker 1: and say, okay, did we drop sixty to sixty five percent? 1318 01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:30,800 Speaker 1: You know, like a lot of people say, when you're 1319 01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,800 Speaker 1: just looking at those harvest numbers, because you know, you're 1320 01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,800 Speaker 1: you're looking at the harvest number and that's one static number, 1321 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 1: but you're not looking at all the things that go 1322 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,599 Speaker 1: go into that, so you're not looking at those seasoned 1323 01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 1: length fluctuations. You're not looking at bag limits like you know, Arkansas, 1324 01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,679 Speaker 1: Mississippi only two states out there that restrict jake harvest. 1325 01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,240 Speaker 1: Prior to two thousand, nearly forty of our harvest was 1326 01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:55,160 Speaker 1: made up of jake's here in the state. UM it's 1327 01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,519 Speaker 1: credible numbers. And then you get from two thousand to 1328 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:02,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, we restricted that the one jake 1329 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,120 Speaker 1: for every hunter. That dropped that percentage from forty down 1330 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,600 Speaker 1: to about twenty. And then in two thousand eleven we 1331 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,639 Speaker 1: instituted the no jake rule, so only youth hunters had 1332 01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,240 Speaker 1: that exception. They could kill one jake. That's dropped that 1333 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,559 Speaker 1: number even further. Now we're down to four percent of 1334 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,639 Speaker 1: our harvest each years made up of jakes. Ten years 1335 01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,840 Speaker 1: it has now no jake policy has been successful and 1336 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,040 Speaker 1: at least protecting Jakes and at least protecting Jake's well. 1337 01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,120 Speaker 1: The unfortunate reality is we don't know early on what 1338 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,320 Speaker 1: those survival rates looked like. We recently finished up some 1339 01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,080 Speaker 1: research here in the last few years that looked at 1340 01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,920 Speaker 1: the impact of that regulation. We're looking at survival of 1341 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,080 Speaker 1: adult and juvenile males, and we were seeing about nine 1342 01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,360 Speaker 1: survival of those Jake's. You know, very few, if any, 1343 01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,760 Speaker 1: were actually even shot during the season. Most of them 1344 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,720 Speaker 1: were just dying a natural mortality, which isn't much. You know, 1345 01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,360 Speaker 1: they have pretty good survival, you know, in the absence 1346 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,200 Speaker 1: of hunting pressure, once they get about four weeks older, 1347 01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:59,880 Speaker 1: so I mean, you get past that first month and 1348 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,120 Speaker 1: you know they're fairly golden. But what we're seeing now 1349 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,000 Speaker 1: is that, you know, our two year olds and stuff, 1350 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,479 Speaker 1: we're hammering them about thirty percent survival um once they 1351 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:13,680 Speaker 1: hit two. Pressure off the Jake's. It's all going to 1352 01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:15,439 Speaker 1: the two years, the two year olds, and then then 1353 01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,559 Speaker 1: you start getting the three four plus year old birds, 1354 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,840 Speaker 1: and you jump back up about fifty and you think 1355 01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,000 Speaker 1: about it, those birds are they've been through the game 1356 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,719 Speaker 1: a time or two at that point, they're the smarter 1357 01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:25,479 Speaker 1: ones out there there. You know, they don't just come 1358 01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:27,360 Speaker 1: running into your calling like you know a two year 1359 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,720 Speaker 1: old would do. You know, they're hard gobble and you 1360 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,400 Speaker 1: know the hunts that you get really really excited about, 1361 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,120 Speaker 1: and because because I just come in that they act 1362 01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,120 Speaker 1: the way you know, most people think that the birds 1363 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:41,040 Speaker 1: should um. But what we don't know is back prior, 1364 01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,639 Speaker 1: you know, back when we could kill two of those birds, 1365 01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,720 Speaker 1: you know what those survival rates look like. You know, 1366 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,720 Speaker 1: did we instead of nine survival of Jake? Did we 1367 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:52,559 Speaker 1: see sixty seventy survival of Jake? But what about those 1368 01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,000 Speaker 1: two year olds that that then increased that two year 1369 01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,559 Speaker 1: old survival because somebody, somebody shot at Jake and they 1370 01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,400 Speaker 1: couldn't kill another one today, So the law young beard 1371 01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,000 Speaker 1: that may have been in there with them, you know, 1372 01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,559 Speaker 1: survived another day or maybe the season, and so maybe 1373 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:07,840 Speaker 1: their survival actually went up a little bit. And you know, 1374 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:12,000 Speaker 1: is that biologically significant to see see those fluctuations, But 1375 01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,000 Speaker 1: but we don't know what those those numbers were like, 1376 01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,080 Speaker 1: So it's hard to say. It's in the one hand 1377 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,800 Speaker 1: that that regulation has has worked. It generated the idea 1378 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,599 Speaker 1: that we're seeing more of those Jakes survived that first year, 1379 01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,719 Speaker 1: but we don't know, you know, how it truly compares 1380 01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,439 Speaker 1: to what our earlier regulations were like and whether or 1381 01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:33,160 Speaker 1: not that that's a problem or not. So do you 1382 01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,600 Speaker 1: think that, uh, are we ever going to get our 1383 01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:38,120 Speaker 1: turkeys back? I mean, like so if this is part 1384 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,920 Speaker 1: of a cycle, and also part of you know, part 1385 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,920 Speaker 1: of it is just there's not as many places for 1386 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:48,599 Speaker 1: turkeys to be, but that doesn't fully make sense for like, 1387 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,320 Speaker 1: like if you just took national forest, like we have 1388 01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,840 Speaker 1: the same amount of National forest, and there's some interior 1389 01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,040 Speaker 1: sections of the National forests that probably aren't really affected 1390 01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:01,519 Speaker 1: by the encroachment of civilization. I'm kind of thinking about 1391 01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,600 Speaker 1: this idea that habitat is being lost, but in a 1392 01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:08,400 Speaker 1: lot of places, habitat necessarily wouldn't be lost. It's not 1393 01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,320 Speaker 1: being lost, you know outright. You know, like there's still 1394 01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,000 Speaker 1: forested landscape, but the condition of that forested landscape is 1395 01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,280 Speaker 1: is different than potentially it has been in years past. 1396 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,920 Speaker 1: That's not as as desirable from a Turkey standpoint. You know, 1397 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,840 Speaker 1: we were talking about overstock Tember. I mean just driving up, 1398 01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:25,519 Speaker 1: I was driving the pig trail, you know, all my 1399 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,360 Speaker 1: way way up here, and you know, you're you're driving 1400 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,720 Speaker 1: through National Forest through there, and there's some spots here 1401 01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,320 Speaker 1: there that look a little more woodland type condition. You 1402 01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,680 Speaker 1: can see a little bit of understory, but most of 1403 01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,960 Speaker 1: the area you're driving through there, whether it's pine hardwood, 1404 01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,400 Speaker 1: you're looking at a lot of leaf litter, a lot 1405 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:44,800 Speaker 1: of pine straw, very little understory vegetation. So you know, 1406 01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,519 Speaker 1: a turkey can still nest in there, but there's not 1407 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,000 Speaker 1: really it's not quality nesting habitats still gonna be a 1408 01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,439 Speaker 1: little more vulnerable to two predators. It's easier for them 1409 01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:56,519 Speaker 1: to see here potentially. But then on top of that, 1410 01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,960 Speaker 1: there's there's not really good brooderer and habitat. There's not 1411 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 1: that that growing lush green vegetation that's you know, just 1412 01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:05,759 Speaker 1: low enough off the ground that it can hide upol 1413 01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,160 Speaker 1: the hand can see over it. And there's lots of insects. 1414 01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,600 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of that out there. And you know, 1415 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,479 Speaker 1: you see that across the lot of and we had 1416 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,360 Speaker 1: that years ago, I'm guessing, you know, I mean, that's 1417 01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:18,160 Speaker 1: me not being here in the state, but I think 1418 01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,240 Speaker 1: twenty thirty forty years ago you saw a different management. 1419 01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,240 Speaker 1: You know in some of those areas. You know, I 1420 01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:28,040 Speaker 1: look nowadays at at how a lot of agencies operate, 1421 01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,840 Speaker 1: and we we've seen a lot of reductions in field 1422 01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,400 Speaker 1: staff and things like that where you know, even particular 1423 01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,679 Speaker 1: here you look at a lot of our national forest lands, 1424 01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,200 Speaker 1: we've got a lot of conglomerates of ranger districts. You know, 1425 01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:43,400 Speaker 1: in areas that used to have um, three separate ranger 1426 01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,640 Speaker 1: districts with three separate staff that all had you know, 1427 01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:49,880 Speaker 1: responsibilities for a much smaller acres. Now you've got all 1428 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,000 Speaker 1: of those in one single district with about a third 1429 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,400 Speaker 1: of the staff that they once had. And there but 1430 01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,040 Speaker 1: now they're responsible for three times the acreage that they 1431 01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,120 Speaker 1: used to be. And you know, I think that all 1432 01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,160 Speaker 1: starts putting challenges on things. That's that's part of that. 1433 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,000 Speaker 1: I just don't understand. It's like, how is the habitat 1434 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,960 Speaker 1: so much different now than it was at the peak 1435 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,240 Speaker 1: you know of Turkey populations that then And I mean 1436 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,760 Speaker 1: I think you answered it is that there's just a 1437 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,799 Speaker 1: thousand different things. I mean, the forests are twenty years older. 1438 01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:26,400 Speaker 1: There's uh, there is differences in management of stuff, and 1439 01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,920 Speaker 1: it may not be that significant from from that time period, 1440 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,280 Speaker 1: but you think we were kind of leading up to it. 1441 01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,120 Speaker 1: So a lot of the stuff that produced the birds 1442 01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,479 Speaker 1: that were on the landscape twenty years ago would have 1443 01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:39,240 Speaker 1: been just a few more years before that. So you know, 1444 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,040 Speaker 1: over time, you know, talking about a forty year fifty 1445 01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:46,760 Speaker 1: year time span, because yeah, maybe what happened forty years 1446 01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,080 Speaker 1: ago produced the birds that we had twenty years ago, 1447 01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,600 Speaker 1: but then that faded away. Missy if you figured this 1448 01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,960 Speaker 1: out yet, well, I do have a question. I know, 1449 01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more familiar with bear and and 1450 01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,720 Speaker 1: how that's by the game in fish and they go 1451 01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,120 Speaker 1: in and they like they can tell you how many 1452 01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,599 Speaker 1: how many babies they're having? Do you all have? Do 1453 01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,920 Speaker 1: you met? Is there any way that you can figure 1454 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,280 Speaker 1: out if turkeys are laying more eggs or less eggs? 1455 01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,719 Speaker 1: So I mean, not specifically the number of eggs. We 1456 01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,800 Speaker 1: occasionally we do research projects and they have over time. 1457 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,320 Speaker 1: You know, back in the nineties and in the early 1458 01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,400 Speaker 1: to mid you know, twenty teens, we had some other 1459 01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:24,240 Speaker 1: research going on where they actually went out cop birds, 1460 01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:27,920 Speaker 1: put transmitters on them, follow them around, and you know, 1461 01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,280 Speaker 1: they track the nesting um effort and so they go 1462 01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,679 Speaker 1: to nest whether they're successful or not, they can count 1463 01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the eggs, get all that information. To my knowledge, the 1464 01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,479 Speaker 1: number of eggs things like that hasn't changed. I'm sure 1465 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,920 Speaker 1: the hat rate hasn't really changed all that much. I 1466 01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,400 Speaker 1: think we're still seeing of the ones that are successful, 1467 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, the the number of eggs that hatch is 1468 01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,920 Speaker 1: usually relatively high. But what we do do, you know, 1469 01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:50,920 Speaker 1: on a regular basis, and it's been going on since 1470 01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,000 Speaker 1: the early eighties, is we do a population survey or 1471 01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:56,919 Speaker 1: a lot of folks called a brood survey. So that's 1472 01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,519 Speaker 1: historically from the eighties until just a few years ago 1473 01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,080 Speaker 1: when I came on board. That was completed by agency 1474 01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:08,040 Speaker 1: personnel law enforcement officers with an agency um US for 1475 01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,920 Speaker 1: service personnel, other you know, agency partners, um fish and 1476 01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:14,720 Speaker 1: Wildlife service folks like that. And what they do is 1477 01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,639 Speaker 1: during the summer months June through August, they'd record all 1478 01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,479 Speaker 1: of the turkeys that they saw. It didn't matter if 1479 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,240 Speaker 1: it was just a group of gobblers, it was a 1480 01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,120 Speaker 1: hand with a group of poults, a few hands all 1481 01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,960 Speaker 1: together alone. And what we do is we compile all 1482 01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,920 Speaker 1: that information and we calculate out what's known as a 1483 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,639 Speaker 1: pulper hand ratio, and so we look at the number 1484 01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,920 Speaker 1: of poults that are observed versus the number of adult 1485 01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,680 Speaker 1: females that are observed, and we get that ratio, and 1486 01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,320 Speaker 1: you're able to look at the reproductive rate. So basically 1487 01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:46,240 Speaker 1: it's just people's observations. So turkeys are pretty hard to 1488 01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:49,160 Speaker 1: to gauge in terms of study like that. You probably 1489 01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:51,959 Speaker 1: would have known that if you listen to the Mike Chamberlain. 1490 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:59,120 Speaker 1: We talked extensively about that. Yeah, it's a can you 1491 01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,360 Speaker 1: imagine if the game of fish that uh turkey polt 1492 01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,320 Speaker 1: trip like they do with the bears, remember the pictures 1493 01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:10,040 Speaker 1: of everybody. Yeah, but if we did, we were Jeremy smiling, 1494 01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,320 Speaker 1: just a big cheeky grin holding a little turkey eggs, 1495 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:18,040 Speaker 1: little photos. That's probably what y'all should do. I don't 1496 01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,160 Speaker 1: know about that. I get real words when you start 1497 01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:25,160 Speaker 1: bumping hands off the nests and doing stuff like sneak 1498 01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: up on it, tranquil you hold the hand up by 1499 01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:34,320 Speaker 1: the legs. Maybe we should bring the rocket nets back rockets. Yeah, okay, 1500 01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,920 Speaker 1: so is this just like, are we just always gonna 1501 01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,880 Speaker 1: have turkey numbers like we do right now? Or do 1502 01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,720 Speaker 1: you think we're at a low a low point and 1503 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,320 Speaker 1: we're probably gonna bounce back up just a little bit 1504 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,960 Speaker 1: and kind of equalized. I think we have been at 1505 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:51,880 Speaker 1: a low point. I mean, you look back through time. 1506 01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:56,519 Speaker 1: You know, just prior to my getting here, nineteen were 1507 01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,880 Speaker 1: the four of the five lowest reproductive us he said 1508 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:12,559 Speaker 1: before you. But I mean a lot of this is, 1509 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, just obviously, you know, something that's out of 1510 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,600 Speaker 1: our control. A lot of times, weather and things like 1511 01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,920 Speaker 1: that are are impacting those a lot more than everything else. 1512 01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,400 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously habitat all those influence too, but overarching 1513 01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:26,519 Speaker 1: weather patterns have been pretty poor. Lot that that period 1514 01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:31,240 Speaker 1: time wet, cold, so I mean, you know poults, you know, 1515 01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,000 Speaker 1: in that first couple of weeks of life, they can't thermoregulate, 1516 01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:36,519 Speaker 1: so if they're getting their cold, they're getting wet, they're 1517 01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,200 Speaker 1: dying a hypothermia, things like that, and you're losing a 1518 01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,880 Speaker 1: ton of birds really really quick. Whereas when you get 1519 01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,120 Speaker 1: to some dryer spring weather like we've actually had the 1520 01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,000 Speaker 1: last couple of years. I was a little worried in 1521 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,880 Speaker 1: the last couple of that, you know, it was too 1522 01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,599 Speaker 1: wet at the wrong time. But it must have hit 1523 01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:51,880 Speaker 1: just right within a lot of our hatching, because we've 1524 01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:55,800 Speaker 1: had a decent hatch in one and so what I 1525 01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,519 Speaker 1: look at is that our populations are probably coming up 1526 01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,479 Speaker 1: a little bit. We've kind of hit that low point. 1527 01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:04,439 Speaker 1: Twenty didn't help things because you know, everybody was off work, 1528 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,400 Speaker 1: so we kind of hammered them in that year. We 1529 01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,600 Speaker 1: we had a higher harvest, but that was probably inflated. 1530 01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,400 Speaker 1: You know, we probably should have been going down that year, 1531 01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,160 Speaker 1: but we spiked up. So then last year we ended 1532 01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,160 Speaker 1: up dropping you know, pretty good amount with our harvest 1533 01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,519 Speaker 1: could be probably overshot what kind of surplus we had 1534 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:24,479 Speaker 1: from the year before, which wouldn't have been a whole 1535 01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,720 Speaker 1: heck of a lot of birds. Whereas now, you know, 1536 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,320 Speaker 1: we went from those four to five poor years, had 1537 01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,600 Speaker 1: a good year. You know, they suggest in a in 1538 01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,720 Speaker 1: a good year reproduction, you can about double your population. 1539 01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,000 Speaker 1: You know, you think about two poles per hand. You know, 1540 01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:39,960 Speaker 1: she's replacing herself in another bird. You could be just 1541 01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,320 Speaker 1: a couple of years away from numbers being pretty high. Yeah, 1542 01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:45,120 Speaker 1: it really doesn't take much. I mean a lot of 1543 01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:49,439 Speaker 1: the old literature talks about populations, you know, fluctuating upwards 1544 01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:52,280 Speaker 1: of fifty, you know, above and below the long term, 1545 01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,759 Speaker 1: you know, kind of average because you have those years 1546 01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,000 Speaker 1: working that when you have an animal that has the 1547 01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:01,400 Speaker 1: potential to have like seven or eight you know, maybe 1548 01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:04,639 Speaker 1: you know hand, real successful hand might raise a whole 1549 01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,240 Speaker 1: clutch of pols and you've just like doubled your population immediately. 1550 01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,680 Speaker 1: I like the I like the hope inside of that. 1551 01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:14,800 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to be a turkey biologist. Now. 1552 01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,160 Speaker 1: See like bear populations, man, you want to spike up 1553 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:20,960 Speaker 1: a bear populations, get ready to sit there and twiddle 1554 01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,280 Speaker 1: your thumbs about twenty years because a bear doesn't reach 1555 01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,639 Speaker 1: sexual maturity till it's about four years old, only has 1556 01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:33,320 Speaker 1: cubs every other year. Jeremy's in the right business because 1557 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:37,320 Speaker 1: you could double your population, right, Jeremy, do you right place? 1558 01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:41,719 Speaker 1: Strike up, Jeremy, yep, we're counting on you to double 1559 01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,240 Speaker 1: our turkey population. You were. That's it's all on you 1560 01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,799 Speaker 1: man on the five bird bag limits. Isn't that funny 1561 01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:51,479 Speaker 1: how it's like Jeremy's here, he's he's in charge of it, 1562 01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:55,719 Speaker 1: and we're like, he saw you man, make turkey hunting 1563 01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,080 Speaker 1: great again. When do you feel do you feel the pressure. 1564 01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,639 Speaker 1: I mean, like, really, is there is there social pressure 1565 01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:05,639 Speaker 1: on you about turkeys? We're giving you a hard time here. 1566 01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,200 Speaker 1: We realize you're just doing your job. No, I mean 1567 01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,280 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, you know, I get constant contacts 1568 01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,800 Speaker 1: from folks all the time about have you thought about 1569 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:15,599 Speaker 1: doing this? Have you thought about doing that? We need 1570 01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:17,760 Speaker 1: to do what this states do and that states doing. 1571 01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:19,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I take a lot of this stuff personally, 1572 01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,960 Speaker 1: and especially when I start hearing stuff you know about 1573 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,360 Speaker 1: me or what we're doing, you know what we're thinking about. 1574 01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,559 Speaker 1: It's hard not to I mean, I'm passionate about turkeys, 1575 01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,040 Speaker 1: and I just me and my wife has had a 1576 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,200 Speaker 1: little boy back in the fall, and you know, I'm 1577 01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,640 Speaker 1: thinking about you know, him six seven years down the 1578 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:36,960 Speaker 1: road when he's able to hunt. You know, I'm trying 1579 01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,720 Speaker 1: to manage for him and everybody else's kids that are 1580 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,400 Speaker 1: out there, you know, thinking about the future and not 1581 01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:45,040 Speaker 1: necessarily thinking about you know, today and just tomorrow. You 1582 01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:46,800 Speaker 1: know what what we're hunting. You know, we've got to 1583 01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,120 Speaker 1: think about what what do we need to do now 1584 01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,360 Speaker 1: that we can set you know, the future up for 1585 01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:55,000 Speaker 1: for success. And you know that may take some some 1586 01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,240 Speaker 1: reduction and what we're able to do now for that 1587 01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,320 Speaker 1: long term benefit. And so I've been pretty happy and 1588 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:03,720 Speaker 1: pretty excited that our agency is has been willing to, 1589 01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, take that kind of leap of faith at 1590 01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,679 Speaker 1: this point in time and and move in that direction 1591 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,799 Speaker 1: and kind of try to put the resource first and foremost, 1592 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,960 Speaker 1: still trying to maintain you know, some some quality opportunity 1593 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,960 Speaker 1: there for for folks. So you still have that, you know, 1594 01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:21,360 Speaker 1: go out and experience and participate in turkey hunting. But 1595 01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:24,519 Speaker 1: that hopefully that sets us up for success, you know 1596 01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,439 Speaker 1: here down the line to where we get to a 1597 01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:28,680 Speaker 1: point where we can maintain some sort of you know, 1598 01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of stable regulations. We don't I don't think 1599 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,920 Speaker 1: we want to get to a point where we're chasing 1600 01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,719 Speaker 1: populations Like things are great, you know, now let's let's 1601 01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:38,040 Speaker 1: keep just like dialing up the pressure. Now we're gonna 1602 01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:40,559 Speaker 1: add bag limits, We're gonna add time. Like I think, 1603 01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,360 Speaker 1: what you need to do is maintain those consistent regulations, 1604 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:45,600 Speaker 1: be be a little bit conservative to make up for 1605 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,080 Speaker 1: those potential poor years that you have down the road, 1606 01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:51,040 Speaker 1: and it balances out. You know, you'll have some good years, 1607 01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:53,479 Speaker 1: you'll have some bad years. But that way you don't 1608 01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,960 Speaker 1: have some really really really bad years and you're you know, 1609 01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:57,719 Speaker 1: you're trying to pull yourself up out of a hole. 1610 01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:00,400 Speaker 1: So what do we what do you what would you 1611 01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,800 Speaker 1: say the major like one or two things that you 1612 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:07,360 Speaker 1: guys are doing right now that is going to help 1613 01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,240 Speaker 1: us get a handle on it. So from the from 1614 01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:13,040 Speaker 1: the regulatory standpoint, you know, obviously you know that's one 1615 01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:15,680 Speaker 1: of the major things that we can control. So you know, 1616 01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:18,559 Speaker 1: pushing the season back to where we did right in 1617 01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,960 Speaker 1: and around April nineteenth, and that's gonna vary based on 1618 01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,880 Speaker 1: calendar creep because we put it as the third Monday 1619 01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:27,320 Speaker 1: in April um to limit some of that that early 1620 01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:29,560 Speaker 1: pressure because you know, you set it up on Saturday, 1621 01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,839 Speaker 1: everybody can go, you end up having a lot more issues, 1622 01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:37,040 Speaker 1: safety issues, hunter interference issues, you know, it's a greater conflict. 1623 01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:38,960 Speaker 1: So we we keep it on a Monday to kind 1624 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,160 Speaker 1: of spread some of that pressure out throughout the week 1625 01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:43,760 Speaker 1: so it's not all just a free for all on 1626 01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,600 Speaker 1: the on the opening day because then then a lot 1627 01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:47,800 Speaker 1: of folks just aren't happy with that and we've had 1628 01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, complaints over the years when 1629 01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:52,920 Speaker 1: they did that and moving it back to Monday. But 1630 01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:55,759 Speaker 1: by pushing us back to that kind of April nineteenth 1631 01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:59,519 Speaker 1: time frame, we're allowing more of those hands to be bred. 1632 01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,360 Speaker 1: Us to the information I had to work with with 1633 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:06,240 Speaker 1: some of our research projects, with those population surveys, we 1634 01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:08,920 Speaker 1: could actually you know, we take age estimates on the 1635 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,800 Speaker 1: pulse so we can back date how old we anticipate those, 1636 01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,960 Speaker 1: and I usually go pretty conservative. You know, if somebody 1637 01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,759 Speaker 1: says they're two weeks old, okay, I'm saying there fourteen days. 1638 01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:18,960 Speaker 1: You know, at that point, I go back from that 1639 01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:21,920 Speaker 1: fourteen days that's when they hatched. I can go back 1640 01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:24,960 Speaker 1: eight days. They usually go twenty eight. Just go on 1641 01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:28,200 Speaker 1: the far far side of things when they're hatching, to say, okay, 1642 01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:30,920 Speaker 1: this is when they first started incubating that nest, and 1643 01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:33,400 Speaker 1: then go back even further when they started laying that 1644 01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,680 Speaker 1: about fourteen days before that. So that that's what we're 1645 01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,120 Speaker 1: talking about in that April nineteenth time frame, is that's 1646 01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:42,160 Speaker 1: the peak nest initiation or egg laying time period in 1647 01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,200 Speaker 1: the state. So there's a bunch of is being done 1648 01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,000 Speaker 1: in March. Some of the breeding is being done in March. 1649 01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:51,000 Speaker 1: Most of it's probably ramping up right there in the 1650 01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:53,799 Speaker 1: middle of April. You know, typically some of the old research, 1651 01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,560 Speaker 1: and this is looking at captive birds, but basically suggests 1652 01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:59,240 Speaker 1: that you know, those birds are getting bread and going 1653 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,840 Speaker 1: to lay there that start that laying process probably within 1654 01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,080 Speaker 1: forty seventy two hours of of when they were bred. 1655 01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,519 Speaker 1: So and it's not to say that some of those 1656 01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,960 Speaker 1: hands aren't getting bred early. I mean I get reports 1657 01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:12,080 Speaker 1: every year. You know, here's trail camera picture and there's 1658 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,599 Speaker 1: a bird, you know, breeding a hand first of March, 1659 01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,679 Speaker 1: seventh of March, something like that. Well, that's that's all occurring, 1660 01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:20,599 Speaker 1: and some of those birds aren't ready to actually lay 1661 01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,639 Speaker 1: that nest, so they continue to breed with more times 1662 01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:25,640 Speaker 1: right up until the time that they're they're ready to 1663 01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:29,360 Speaker 1: start that process. And most of that occurs right around 1664 01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,519 Speaker 1: now this previous week or so. And so you know 1665 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,120 Speaker 1: where we had had seasons time about the tenth or 1666 01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,040 Speaker 1: so of April that fell right within probably that peak 1667 01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,559 Speaker 1: breeding period in the States. So that's when most of 1668 01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:42,640 Speaker 1: those times didn't have to gobble as much. You know, 1669 01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,519 Speaker 1: they're sitting up there on the limb. They might gobble 1670 01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,520 Speaker 1: a few times, but a lot of those hands are 1671 01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,639 Speaker 1: right there roosted around them because they're gonna come down, 1672 01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna breed with them early, and then they're gonna 1673 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:54,400 Speaker 1: move off and potentially start that that laying sequence pretty 1674 01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:58,320 Speaker 1: shortly thereafter. And so that obviously reduces you know a 1675 01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:01,960 Speaker 1: lot of the um satisfaction with with hunting. You know, 1676 01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,519 Speaker 1: Goblin's going down, You're not hearing as much. You know, 1677 01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,080 Speaker 1: this week, you know, this first week here, the season 1678 01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:08,760 Speaker 1: wasn't the best, but you know, some of that's been 1679 01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:12,000 Speaker 1: influenced probably more by weather, um spring green up this 1680 01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:14,240 Speaker 1: year was actually probably a little bit delayed for it 1681 01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:16,920 Speaker 1: has been UM. So you know, we may actually be 1682 01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,080 Speaker 1: hitting more of that kind of low period right now 1683 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:20,880 Speaker 1: and some of that may really start to ramp up 1684 01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:22,720 Speaker 1: here in the ladder, you know, two thirds of the 1685 01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,320 Speaker 1: season over the next few days. What so, what if 1686 01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:29,360 Speaker 1: you had a message for people about Turkey hunting, what 1687 01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,160 Speaker 1: would you say, like just in terms of you being 1688 01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,719 Speaker 1: a part of the agency, Like what would you ask 1689 01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,120 Speaker 1: of people? I would ask aspects to have have some patience. 1690 01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, we we didn't get to the point 1691 01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,640 Speaker 1: that we're at right now overnight, and we're not going 1692 01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,880 Speaker 1: to change that overnight. Um, you know, I mean I 1693 01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:47,800 Speaker 1: thought you were going to double the turkey. Did you 1694 01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:51,000 Speaker 1: say that? Didn't he say that in one year he 1695 01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:55,120 Speaker 1: could double the turkey. I wish it worked that way. 1696 01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:59,600 Speaker 1: I wish it was that easy. But my whole quote, Yeah, 1697 01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,760 Speaker 1: my hope is that you know, over time here that 1698 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,040 Speaker 1: we can get some of those those good springs, Like 1699 01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:07,040 Speaker 1: we've had two pretty good hatches. If we get another 1700 01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,600 Speaker 1: really good hatch this year, I mean, you think about it. 1701 01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:11,840 Speaker 1: You might have doubled your population two years ago, but 1702 01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:14,280 Speaker 1: you're at a real low point. So then last year, 1703 01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, if we about doubled it again. You know, 1704 01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:18,880 Speaker 1: now we're even better and we're really starting to see it. 1705 01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:20,479 Speaker 1: Well now if we get a third year back to 1706 01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:22,760 Speaker 1: back to back, now we really see it, you know, 1707 01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:24,519 Speaker 1: in these future years, because you're gonna have a lot 1708 01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,960 Speaker 1: more young birds running around and then maybe potentially you're 1709 01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:30,160 Speaker 1: your gobblin activity is gonna increase. But but the likelihood 1710 01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:32,360 Speaker 1: is will have a poort year. You know, there's no 1711 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:34,320 Speaker 1: guarantee that we're going to get that back to back 1712 01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,240 Speaker 1: to back because we just don't know what that weather 1713 01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:38,040 Speaker 1: is going to do. So I would just say to 1714 01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:40,920 Speaker 1: have patients, you know, to take take some time, you know, 1715 01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:45,080 Speaker 1: maybe kind of recalibrate those expectations. Don't don't look back 1716 01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,360 Speaker 1: to the early two thousands and say, Okay, we killed 1717 01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:52,000 Speaker 1: twenty thousand birds. We need to kill kill twenty thousand again, 1718 01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:53,960 Speaker 1: because it's it's unlikely that we're ever going to see 1719 01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:56,880 Speaker 1: our harvest numbers get that high again. Because of the 1720 01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,439 Speaker 1: new regulations that we have in place. You know, everything 1721 01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:01,800 Speaker 1: that's changed from back then to now, it's not going 1722 01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,360 Speaker 1: to allow those numbers to quite get to that point. 1723 01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:06,800 Speaker 1: You know. I look back to when we had a 1724 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,120 Speaker 1: later season, just a handful of years ago, twelve to 1725 01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:14,000 Speaker 1: sixteen time period, we killed about ten to eleven thousand 1726 01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:16,439 Speaker 1: or so birds in the state that was we were 1727 01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,160 Speaker 1: one of the states at that time. We actually saw 1728 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:20,479 Speaker 1: we had declined a whole bunch and then we started 1729 01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,200 Speaker 1: coming up. We actually made this this increase during those years, 1730 01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:25,320 Speaker 1: which is kind of out of the norm for a 1731 01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of the other states. Most people were either just 1732 01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:30,519 Speaker 1: kind of staying steady or still declining, and we saw 1733 01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,760 Speaker 1: this nice spike. We don't know if that was the regulations. 1734 01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:35,920 Speaker 1: We we know we had good reproduction on the front 1735 01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,400 Speaker 1: end of that twelve and thirteen, but we didn't kind 1736 01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,479 Speaker 1: of follow through for it those remaining years, So we 1737 01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:44,400 Speaker 1: don't know would we have just continued to go down 1738 01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,479 Speaker 1: where we've leveled out, you know, anything about that which 1739 01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,600 Speaker 1: is unfortunate. And the hope will be that, you know, 1740 01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,800 Speaker 1: we can keep the regulations we have in place now 1741 01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,519 Speaker 1: for some time to to watch those those trends and 1742 01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,840 Speaker 1: actually get trend data because you know, going back the 1743 01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:00,960 Speaker 1: last thirty forty years, we've made so many regulation changes 1744 01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:03,840 Speaker 1: as an agency and it it's actually you know a 1745 01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:05,680 Speaker 1: lot of folks look at you know, what what is 1746 01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:07,639 Speaker 1: the agency done, and well, they've actually done a lot 1747 01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,120 Speaker 1: compared to a lot of other agencies. We've made so 1748 01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:13,200 Speaker 1: many raggs changes. But it makes it impossible to you know, 1749 01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:15,320 Speaker 1: de termineate a sort of trend data because of all 1750 01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:19,760 Speaker 1: those those different kind of interwoven REGs changes that you know, 1751 01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:23,080 Speaker 1: each one has its own different impact on what that 1752 01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:25,200 Speaker 1: harvest is going to be, So it makes trying to 1753 01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,960 Speaker 1: compare from one year to the next, you know, almost impossible. Um, 1754 01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,760 Speaker 1: So hopefully we can kind of maintain some and see 1755 01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:33,200 Speaker 1: it out and then if we do need to make 1756 01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:35,880 Speaker 1: a change. We make one change at a time and say, okay, 1757 01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,760 Speaker 1: how how is this this impact it? Maybe study that 1758 01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:41,840 Speaker 1: and see, okay, we went to this, we didn't see 1759 01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:43,920 Speaker 1: any change. Okay, maybe we can return that and we 1760 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,080 Speaker 1: move one of these other factors, and you know, hopefully 1761 01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:48,559 Speaker 1: in time we'll get to a point where we can 1762 01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:50,679 Speaker 1: actually say, you know, how many how many turkey hunters 1763 01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:52,240 Speaker 1: do we have in the state. I don't know how 1764 01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:54,719 Speaker 1: many we have, and you know, some of our estimates, 1765 01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:56,599 Speaker 1: as do we We don't have any idea how many 1766 01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,000 Speaker 1: we don't we We have some estimates based on some 1767 01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,599 Speaker 1: kind of deer and key hunter opinion surveys that we're 1768 01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,840 Speaker 1: done in fourteen, sixteen, and eighteen that say, okay, maybe 1769 01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,400 Speaker 1: about forty percent of our license holders hunt turkeys. Well, 1770 01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,280 Speaker 1: depending on which number you use and the exact you know, 1771 01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,719 Speaker 1: license holders that you know, I could be anywhere from 1772 01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:17,360 Speaker 1: seven to a hundred and something thousand turkey hunters in 1773 01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:19,720 Speaker 1: the state. So you know, when I look at a 1774 01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,519 Speaker 1: year where we have say, say we have seventy thousand 1775 01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:26,519 Speaker 1: we last year we killed seven thousand turkeys. Well, okay, 1776 01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:29,439 Speaker 1: that says, okay, maybe you have about ten percent success. 1777 01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,160 Speaker 1: But you know, when I look at some of my 1778 01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:33,880 Speaker 1: counterparts talk to like Georgia, that they estimate they've got 1779 01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:36,479 Speaker 1: fifty to sixty thousand turkey hunters. They're much larger state 1780 01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,439 Speaker 1: than us, They've got more birds than us. I'd be 1781 01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:41,400 Speaker 1: kind of hard pressed to expect we have more turkey 1782 01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,200 Speaker 1: hunters here in Arkansas than there. So you know, say 1783 01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:45,960 Speaker 1: we have half as much, say we have thirty five 1784 01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,400 Speaker 1: forty thousand turkey hunters. Well, now all of a sudden, 1785 01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,559 Speaker 1: your success rates and that's actually maybe more in line 1786 01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:54,599 Speaker 1: with a lot of these other states throughout the country. 1787 01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:56,720 Speaker 1: Maybe that's more normal, and we're kind of in the 1788 01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:59,040 Speaker 1: ballpark where we should be. And you know, you're just 1789 01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,439 Speaker 1: gonna see those fluctuations depending on what that hatch looks like. 1790 01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:04,599 Speaker 1: And it's gonna be every other year because we don't 1791 01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:07,479 Speaker 1: harvest jake. So you don't see those trends. You know, 1792 01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,800 Speaker 1: wherever you see a spike in reproduction, you don't see 1793 01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,839 Speaker 1: that spiking harvest, you know, come for two years instead 1794 01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,120 Speaker 1: of in a lot of states where since you're able 1795 01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,200 Speaker 1: to harvest jakes, you know, it happens that following years, 1796 01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,200 Speaker 1: like if this summer, you know you had a good year. 1797 01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,120 Speaker 1: In a lot of states, you'd see that spike and 1798 01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:25,519 Speaker 1: harvest next spring, whereas here we'd see it a little 1799 01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:30,479 Speaker 1: two years later. Yeah, well, fascinating stuff. Yeah, that's great man, 1800 01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:33,960 Speaker 1: thanks a ton for coming up here. Really appreciate it. 1801 01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:37,200 Speaker 1: And uh, we'll be We'll give you a couple more years, Jeremy, 1802 01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:40,200 Speaker 1: we'll be patient with you. But you know, by about 1803 01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:44,720 Speaker 1: two years from now, I need like five bird bag limit. No, man, 1804 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,160 Speaker 1: let us know. We'll get Austin to get it for you. 1805 01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:54,720 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. No, no, no, man, 1806 01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:57,360 Speaker 1: we appreciate what you're doing for real. We we know 1807 01:33:57,439 --> 01:33:59,880 Speaker 1: it's not an easy chair to sit in. And uh 1808 01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:04,400 Speaker 1: and Gili man, it's a it's a dynamic and complex 1809 01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:08,720 Speaker 1: system that's constantly changing. I mean with the landscape and 1810 01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:13,920 Speaker 1: the human involvement and weather changing. You know, weather patterns 1811 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,960 Speaker 1: are undoubtedly changing. It's like such a complex system. I mean, 1812 01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,000 Speaker 1: all we can do is give it our best and 1813 01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:22,720 Speaker 1: and I know, I mean I have full faith. You know, 1814 01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:24,880 Speaker 1: there's some I mean I have a lot of faith 1815 01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,760 Speaker 1: in game agencies just doing the absolute best they can. 1816 01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,360 Speaker 1: It's in their best interests. I mean, every state agency 1817 01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:34,599 Speaker 1: wants engagement from people they know. To get that engagement, 1818 01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:36,639 Speaker 1: they've got to have wildlife. I mean, we're all kind 1819 01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:38,719 Speaker 1: of on the same team in terms of these things, 1820 01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,040 Speaker 1: and these are the guys that are that have the 1821 01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:45,720 Speaker 1: day to have the research are doing the best that 1822 01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,400 Speaker 1: we know how inside of the bounds of science and 1823 01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:52,760 Speaker 1: human relations to make all this stuff work. So yeah, 1824 01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,760 Speaker 1: we appreciate the hard work and the you know, considering 1825 01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,599 Speaker 1: the habitat of wildlife and the hunters, and I think 1826 01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,640 Speaker 1: because do a great job balancing that out right on 1827 01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:12,360 Speaker 1: mm hm