1 00:00:08,285 --> 00:00:19,165 Speaker 1: School of Humans. That's what he said today, and he 2 00:00:19,205 --> 00:00:24,365 Speaker 1: said he didn't strangle her. Yeah, I don't understand, and 3 00:00:24,405 --> 00:00:26,445 Speaker 1: I mean, look again, glad justice was served, but I 4 00:00:26,445 --> 00:00:29,845 Speaker 1: don't understand why they can't get some of these contradictions. 5 00:00:30,605 --> 00:00:33,445 Speaker 2: This case sitting here right now, we know less about 6 00:00:33,485 --> 00:00:36,125 Speaker 2: what happened to Repbecker's you two and afters. 7 00:00:35,805 --> 00:00:44,725 Speaker 1: Ago, after the news broke that Billy Miller was convicted 8 00:00:44,765 --> 00:00:48,845 Speaker 1: of Rebecca Gould's murder, I had some mixed feelings. It 9 00:00:48,845 --> 00:00:50,925 Speaker 1: would have been so much easier for me to believe 10 00:00:51,165 --> 00:00:54,645 Speaker 1: that justice had been done and to celebrate. After consuming 11 00:00:54,805 --> 00:00:57,285 Speaker 1: my life for so many years, as it has so 12 00:00:57,325 --> 00:01:01,485 Speaker 1: many other people, this case would finally be over. And 13 00:01:01,525 --> 00:01:05,205 Speaker 1: I am happy about Billy Miller's arrest and conviction. Given 14 00:01:05,205 --> 00:01:08,245 Speaker 1: the fact that Billy Miller is a dangerous sexual predator 15 00:01:08,405 --> 00:01:12,925 Speaker 1: who I absolutely believe participated in Rebecca's murder, I definitely 16 00:01:12,925 --> 00:01:15,805 Speaker 1: consider this a good thing. I also want to give 17 00:01:15,845 --> 00:01:19,285 Speaker 1: credit to the Arkansas State Police. I am thrilled that 18 00:01:19,365 --> 00:01:23,285 Speaker 1: Mike McNeil took over the case because for me, this 19 00:01:23,525 --> 00:01:26,685 Speaker 1: was never about being right or wrong. Remember, I had 20 00:01:26,765 --> 00:01:29,285 Speaker 1: no access to the police case file, so what I 21 00:01:29,325 --> 00:01:31,765 Speaker 1: was trying to do with Helengn was to go out 22 00:01:31,805 --> 00:01:34,765 Speaker 1: and talk to anyone I could, anyone who I believed 23 00:01:34,925 --> 00:01:38,645 Speaker 1: could have information to share. My hope was that after 24 00:01:38,685 --> 00:01:42,325 Speaker 1: the podcast aired, Dennis Simons would someday be off the 25 00:01:42,365 --> 00:01:45,765 Speaker 1: case and someone knew a fresh pair of eyes would 26 00:01:45,765 --> 00:01:48,405 Speaker 1: be put on the case. And that's exactly what happened. 27 00:01:48,965 --> 00:01:51,645 Speaker 1: I think that Mike McNeil has done excellent police work 28 00:01:51,885 --> 00:01:54,765 Speaker 1: and has been much more open minded than his predecessors. 29 00:01:55,405 --> 00:01:58,485 Speaker 1: But as with so many things in this case, it 30 00:01:58,525 --> 00:02:01,565 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it's over yet. It feels like that 31 00:02:01,645 --> 00:02:04,365 Speaker 1: moment in the horror movie where you think it's all 32 00:02:04,405 --> 00:02:07,405 Speaker 1: done and everyone is starting to feel relieved, and then 33 00:02:07,445 --> 00:02:12,725 Speaker 1: the monster lunges out for that one last scare. I'm 34 00:02:12,765 --> 00:02:53,045 Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone. In Billy Miller's confession, 35 00:02:53,565 --> 00:02:57,005 Speaker 1: he called himself a monster. This was during his interview 36 00:02:57,125 --> 00:03:00,125 Speaker 1: when detectives were asking him why he did it, why 37 00:03:00,245 --> 00:03:04,405 Speaker 1: he killed Rebecca. He said that there was no sexual motivation. 38 00:03:04,965 --> 00:03:07,685 Speaker 1: But I find that very hard to believe. I talked 39 00:03:07,725 --> 00:03:11,525 Speaker 1: investigator Jennifer Buckle about her impression of Billy. How do 40 00:03:11,565 --> 00:03:14,685 Speaker 1: you feel about William Miller? I mean his history. 41 00:03:15,005 --> 00:03:19,725 Speaker 3: You know, a monster, she's a predator. We know he 42 00:03:20,125 --> 00:03:22,645 Speaker 3: you know, sexually assaulted other women. We know he had 43 00:03:22,685 --> 00:03:24,925 Speaker 3: a pattern of getting women overly drunk at bars and 44 00:03:24,965 --> 00:03:27,685 Speaker 3: taking them home to have sex with them, I eat, 45 00:03:27,885 --> 00:03:30,325 Speaker 3: rape them. He would take photos of them when they 46 00:03:30,325 --> 00:03:34,485 Speaker 3: were unconscious. We joke about killing prostitutes. You know, was 47 00:03:34,525 --> 00:03:36,925 Speaker 3: the suspect and a sexual assault in two thousand and two, 48 00:03:36,925 --> 00:03:40,085 Speaker 3: according to Mike. So, I mean, he obviously has a 49 00:03:40,125 --> 00:03:42,805 Speaker 3: pattern in a history. And like George and I talked 50 00:03:42,805 --> 00:03:44,565 Speaker 3: about this the other day, but George is like, what 51 00:03:45,005 --> 00:03:47,245 Speaker 3: do you think the chances are that this is Williams 52 00:03:47,245 --> 00:03:50,085 Speaker 3: filmy murder? And I'm like, I think the chance is 53 00:03:50,085 --> 00:03:54,925 Speaker 3: pretty low. But clearly he has these sexual compulsions or whatever. 54 00:03:55,205 --> 00:03:57,165 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't like the word normal and abnormal, 55 00:03:57,205 --> 00:04:01,445 Speaker 3: but like his sexual preferences are abnormal, and knowing this 56 00:04:01,485 --> 00:04:05,765 Speaker 3: other stuff about his history, I just don't see. Unfortunately, Rebeca, 57 00:04:05,765 --> 00:04:08,205 Speaker 3: it's probably not his only murder victim. 58 00:04:08,405 --> 00:04:10,245 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's hard to find information because he was 59 00:04:10,245 --> 00:04:13,285 Speaker 1: in the Philippines for so long exactly who knows what 60 00:04:13,285 --> 00:04:13,725 Speaker 1: one on them. 61 00:04:14,845 --> 00:04:16,765 Speaker 3: You're never yep, you're never going to be able to 62 00:04:16,765 --> 00:04:19,685 Speaker 3: find the victims over there, and that sucks. 63 00:04:31,725 --> 00:04:34,645 Speaker 1: I went to see Rebecca's dad, doctor Larry Gould again 64 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:37,965 Speaker 1: near Mountain Home. It's been over two years since I've 65 00:04:38,045 --> 00:04:40,885 Speaker 1: last seen Larry, since the podcast happened, and then the 66 00:04:40,965 --> 00:04:45,725 Speaker 1: arrest and then COVID made travel so hard it was emotional. 67 00:04:46,285 --> 00:04:48,085 Speaker 1: I gave him a big hug before I went into 68 00:04:48,125 --> 00:04:52,525 Speaker 1: the house. Larry has had some changes in his life. 69 00:04:52,605 --> 00:04:55,285 Speaker 1: His two younger daughters have grown up into young women. 70 00:04:56,485 --> 00:04:59,445 Speaker 1: His oldest is getting ready to start college. I gave 71 00:04:59,485 --> 00:05:04,285 Speaker 1: them both hugs too. The last time I was in 72 00:05:04,285 --> 00:05:08,845 Speaker 1: this kitchen where were poring over autopsy diagrams and countless 73 00:05:08,845 --> 00:05:11,445 Speaker 1: piles of letters to the prosecutor, to the district attorney, 74 00:05:11,525 --> 00:05:15,725 Speaker 1: to the police, Larry was basically begging for help in 75 00:05:15,725 --> 00:05:19,725 Speaker 1: finding his daughter's killer. This time, the mood is different. 76 00:05:20,445 --> 00:05:24,245 Speaker 1: We're happier because obviously Rebecca's killer has been caught and 77 00:05:24,445 --> 00:05:26,485 Speaker 1: will be sent to prison for what amounts to the 78 00:05:26,485 --> 00:05:29,445 Speaker 1: rest of his natural life. So in some sense it's 79 00:05:29,485 --> 00:05:33,445 Speaker 1: a celebration. Larry finally has some answers about what happened 80 00:05:33,445 --> 00:05:43,605 Speaker 1: to his daughter. Larry first saw Billy Miller in August 81 00:05:43,685 --> 00:05:47,685 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two at the Suppression hearing where Billy's confession 82 00:05:47,765 --> 00:05:48,525 Speaker 1: video was played. 83 00:05:50,805 --> 00:05:54,005 Speaker 4: As a man and as a father, I really wanted 84 00:05:54,045 --> 00:05:58,445 Speaker 4: to size up this guy. I wanted to see what 85 00:05:58,645 --> 00:06:01,525 Speaker 4: type of person could do this to my daughter. 86 00:06:02,205 --> 00:06:06,165 Speaker 1: At that hearing, Larry sat right behind Billy and he 87 00:06:06,325 --> 00:06:10,725 Speaker 1: spent the hours of confession watching Billy, hearing the graphic 88 00:06:10,805 --> 00:06:14,125 Speaker 1: details of the man he would confess to brutally murdering 89 00:06:14,165 --> 00:06:17,925 Speaker 1: his daughter, watching her die, cleaning up her blood, and 90 00:06:17,965 --> 00:06:19,965 Speaker 1: throwing her body off the side of the road like 91 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:23,805 Speaker 1: a bag of trash. And through it all he maintained 92 00:06:23,845 --> 00:06:27,005 Speaker 1: his composure because he said of a promise that he 93 00:06:27,045 --> 00:06:30,405 Speaker 1: made to Rebecca that someday he would find her killer. 94 00:06:32,045 --> 00:06:37,405 Speaker 4: I found that his body language was his entire demeanor 95 00:06:38,245 --> 00:06:43,405 Speaker 4: was highly offensive. He's a very unattractive man. And that's 96 00:06:43,925 --> 00:06:48,405 Speaker 4: a loaded statement because a lot of what you learn 97 00:06:48,845 --> 00:06:52,325 Speaker 4: about William Miller is that a good portion of his 98 00:06:52,405 --> 00:06:56,645 Speaker 4: life was predicated on some forms of perversion and things 99 00:06:56,645 --> 00:07:00,485 Speaker 4: that just were not what you would consider normal behavior. First, 100 00:07:00,485 --> 00:07:04,325 Speaker 4: he didn't have to be there, he wasn't subpoenaed, and 101 00:07:04,365 --> 00:07:06,125 Speaker 4: they told him many times you could get up and 102 00:07:06,165 --> 00:07:09,005 Speaker 4: leave any time he wanted to. By the end of 103 00:07:09,045 --> 00:07:12,125 Speaker 4: the day, your thought on who William Miller was, by 104 00:07:12,125 --> 00:07:17,245 Speaker 4: his own statements, was this is an arrogant, pompous, egotistical 105 00:07:17,765 --> 00:07:25,005 Speaker 4: man who drew pleasure out of making people feel foolish. 106 00:07:25,405 --> 00:07:28,645 Speaker 4: And those were his exact words many times in the film, 107 00:07:29,005 --> 00:07:31,725 Speaker 4: was that he had made fools out of all of 108 00:07:31,765 --> 00:07:33,685 Speaker 4: these people, and he took a lot of pride in 109 00:07:33,685 --> 00:07:38,285 Speaker 4: that that in itself is a sickness. The man is sick, 110 00:07:38,365 --> 00:07:40,285 Speaker 4: and the man has a lot of problems and his 111 00:07:40,365 --> 00:07:44,245 Speaker 4: own egos what defeated him. He reminded me of what 112 00:07:44,285 --> 00:07:49,125 Speaker 4: you typically associate with people that are arsenists. They light 113 00:07:49,165 --> 00:07:51,525 Speaker 4: a fire and they want to go back and watch 114 00:07:51,565 --> 00:07:52,085 Speaker 4: it burn. 115 00:08:01,165 --> 00:08:03,965 Speaker 1: When we were still preparing for Billy Miller's trial to 116 00:08:04,005 --> 00:08:08,205 Speaker 1: begin on October thirty first, Larry learned on October fourteenth, 117 00:08:08,605 --> 00:08:11,325 Speaker 1: the very last day that the defense had to present 118 00:08:11,325 --> 00:08:14,685 Speaker 1: a plea deal. He learned from prosecutor Eric Hants that 119 00:08:14,725 --> 00:08:18,205 Speaker 1: a deal was in the works. From there, things moved 120 00:08:18,325 --> 00:08:22,725 Speaker 1: very fast over that weekend. On Monday night, Larry texted 121 00:08:22,765 --> 00:08:24,805 Speaker 1: me to say the hearing would be the very next 122 00:08:24,805 --> 00:08:28,205 Speaker 1: morning at eight am. The plea deal had been accepted, 123 00:08:28,285 --> 00:08:31,285 Speaker 1: so it would be quick Larry was there with his 124 00:08:31,325 --> 00:08:35,725 Speaker 1: two younger daughters, Rebecca's half sisters, Katie and Macy. He 125 00:08:35,805 --> 00:08:38,485 Speaker 1: wanted to show them how the criminal justice system worked 126 00:08:39,005 --> 00:08:43,005 Speaker 1: and for them to finally see their half sister get justice. 127 00:08:43,205 --> 00:08:47,085 Speaker 1: It was an emotional day and Larry only had the 128 00:08:47,205 --> 00:08:49,365 Speaker 1: night before to prepare his victim statement. 129 00:08:50,085 --> 00:08:53,405 Speaker 4: That evening, I had an hour one hour to write 130 00:08:53,565 --> 00:08:57,245 Speaker 4: my victim statement. So you know, when you watch these programs, 131 00:08:57,285 --> 00:08:59,685 Speaker 4: you see people up there and they're spewing off for 132 00:08:59,845 --> 00:09:02,445 Speaker 4: hours about different things and stuff. They told me I 133 00:09:02,485 --> 00:09:07,845 Speaker 4: could only submit two type three pages. So I made 134 00:09:07,925 --> 00:09:11,005 Speaker 4: notes and then I got panicky. I thought, geez, I'm 135 00:09:11,005 --> 00:09:13,125 Speaker 4: not going to have this ready. And so I sat 136 00:09:13,205 --> 00:09:16,165 Speaker 4: in bed at ten o'clock at night and I wrote 137 00:09:16,205 --> 00:09:20,005 Speaker 4: it out and typed it and was I knew I 138 00:09:20,005 --> 00:09:21,525 Speaker 4: had to get some sleep because the next day was 139 00:09:21,525 --> 00:09:23,565 Speaker 4: the hearing. So it took me an hour and I 140 00:09:23,565 --> 00:09:26,365 Speaker 4: wrote it out and that was that's it. And then 141 00:09:26,485 --> 00:09:28,765 Speaker 4: I read it in court, and so I'd be happy 142 00:09:28,805 --> 00:09:29,205 Speaker 4: to read. 143 00:09:29,085 --> 00:09:29,325 Speaker 3: It to you. 144 00:09:29,405 --> 00:09:35,005 Speaker 4: I'd love you did that in an hour? Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, 145 00:09:35,005 --> 00:09:38,165 Speaker 4: it's you don't know what to do. You know, you 146 00:09:38,245 --> 00:09:40,525 Speaker 4: sit there and you've got eighteen years to think about 147 00:09:40,565 --> 00:09:44,805 Speaker 4: your daughter and all the different things that has happened. 148 00:09:44,845 --> 00:09:47,405 Speaker 4: So you go, do you what do I write? So 149 00:09:49,125 --> 00:09:49,765 Speaker 4: Dot read it? 150 00:09:49,845 --> 00:09:50,045 Speaker 3: Yeah? 151 00:09:50,245 --> 00:09:55,245 Speaker 1: Please Larry read me. It's the witness statement that he 152 00:09:55,285 --> 00:09:58,685 Speaker 1: read in court, his final goodbye to his daughter Rebecca. 153 00:09:59,645 --> 00:10:03,005 Speaker 1: This sentencing hearing, liked the hearings before, it took place 154 00:10:03,085 --> 00:10:05,925 Speaker 1: in a tiny court room and no cameras or recording 155 00:10:05,925 --> 00:10:09,405 Speaker 1: devices were allowed, so only a few people were there 156 00:10:09,485 --> 00:10:13,445 Speaker 1: to hear Larry's words. So it's really important to me 157 00:10:13,565 --> 00:10:16,925 Speaker 1: to play this witness statement in its entirety because I 158 00:10:17,005 --> 00:10:19,685 Speaker 1: want everyone who has been following this case to hear it. 159 00:10:22,605 --> 00:10:27,325 Speaker 4: Eighteen years ago, my life changed forever. Eighteen years ago, 160 00:10:27,405 --> 00:10:32,685 Speaker 4: many lives were changed forever. My precious daughter, Rebecca Christian 161 00:10:32,725 --> 00:10:36,565 Speaker 4: Gould was taken from us. She was taken from family, 162 00:10:36,685 --> 00:10:40,565 Speaker 4: her friends, and taken from her own future, her dreams, 163 00:10:40,605 --> 00:10:44,565 Speaker 4: her desires, her wants, her hopes, and all the possibilities 164 00:10:44,605 --> 00:10:47,445 Speaker 4: that life at age twenty two presents to a young lady. 165 00:10:48,485 --> 00:10:53,445 Speaker 4: No marriage, no children, no graduation from college, no career, 166 00:10:53,645 --> 00:10:57,245 Speaker 4: no good times and bad You took away a chance 167 00:10:57,285 --> 00:11:00,605 Speaker 4: for a young, tenacious and blossoming girl to dream of 168 00:11:00,645 --> 00:11:04,525 Speaker 4: her possibilities in life. You took away from me my 169 00:11:04,685 --> 00:11:10,365 Speaker 4: opportunity to watch those things happen. William Miller Eighteen years ago, 170 00:11:10,485 --> 00:11:12,845 Speaker 4: I was working in my office seeing patients when I 171 00:11:12,925 --> 00:11:17,045 Speaker 4: received a frantic call that Rebecca was missing. Little did 172 00:11:17,085 --> 00:11:21,725 Speaker 4: I know then that my own world would shortly changed forever, 173 00:11:22,365 --> 00:11:24,965 Speaker 4: and soon a living hell would find its way into 174 00:11:25,005 --> 00:11:28,925 Speaker 4: my life. A hell you created, and now a hell 175 00:11:29,045 --> 00:11:34,965 Speaker 4: you must face. No rest, little sleep, searching early morning 176 00:11:35,045 --> 00:11:38,485 Speaker 4: until late at night to try to find Rebecca. Hope 177 00:11:38,525 --> 00:11:42,845 Speaker 4: diminishes daily, but never went away until the day she 178 00:11:42,925 --> 00:11:47,005 Speaker 4: was found, and reality set in. My daughter was dumped 179 00:11:47,085 --> 00:11:57,565 Speaker 4: like trash left for the animal, left for the animals 180 00:11:57,805 --> 00:12:01,845 Speaker 4: and the maggots to devour slowly each night. You were 181 00:12:01,845 --> 00:12:06,565 Speaker 4: long gone. You have had eighteen years of life, family, children, money, 182 00:12:06,685 --> 00:12:09,405 Speaker 4: a career, and had you not been a truly sick 183 00:12:09,445 --> 00:12:12,605 Speaker 4: person at such a young age, you probably would have 184 00:12:12,645 --> 00:12:17,125 Speaker 4: had a nice life. Today that ends, and today I grieve. 185 00:12:17,725 --> 00:12:20,325 Speaker 4: I had no time to grieve then, because I could 186 00:12:20,365 --> 00:12:24,045 Speaker 4: not rest a funeral to plan, and my child to bury. 187 00:12:25,085 --> 00:12:28,045 Speaker 4: What you didn't know was at that burial site. I 188 00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:31,525 Speaker 4: took my kids aside and made a pledge that nothing 189 00:12:31,525 --> 00:12:34,685 Speaker 4: would ever stop us from finding the person who murdered Rebecca. 190 00:12:35,325 --> 00:12:40,045 Speaker 4: And today, today I looked to heaven and simply whisper 191 00:12:40,885 --> 00:12:45,205 Speaker 4: promise made, promise kept. The eighteen years of hell you 192 00:12:45,325 --> 00:12:49,645 Speaker 4: put me through has cost me dearly. It cost me family, 193 00:12:49,965 --> 00:12:54,205 Speaker 4: loved ones, my enjoyment of life, hundreds and hundreds of 194 00:12:54,205 --> 00:12:58,565 Speaker 4: thousands of dollars, precious time. Basically everything I had hoped 195 00:12:58,565 --> 00:13:01,525 Speaker 4: for in my own life was placed on hold forever. 196 00:13:03,125 --> 00:13:05,925 Speaker 4: Simply avoid or hold in my heart that could never 197 00:13:06,005 --> 00:13:11,445 Speaker 4: be repaired or patched back to a healthy state until now. See, 198 00:13:11,485 --> 00:13:13,805 Speaker 4: my glass is always going to be half full and 199 00:13:13,885 --> 00:13:18,485 Speaker 4: never half empty. I teach my children to never give up, 200 00:13:19,085 --> 00:13:22,525 Speaker 4: fight and never quit, to salute our precious American flag, 201 00:13:22,645 --> 00:13:25,205 Speaker 4: to salute law enforcement above all the men and women 202 00:13:25,245 --> 00:13:30,285 Speaker 4: who serve this great country. As I did. Rebecca represented 203 00:13:30,325 --> 00:13:34,525 Speaker 4: that combination of beliefs. She would fight for the underdog, 204 00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:38,565 Speaker 4: and at one hundred pounds of her ringing wet was 205 00:13:38,645 --> 00:13:41,885 Speaker 4: the courage of a hero. You took away the life 206 00:13:42,005 --> 00:13:45,845 Speaker 4: of someone I believed could have become anything she wanted, 207 00:13:46,245 --> 00:13:49,005 Speaker 4: The taking of my daughter's life in such a brutal 208 00:13:49,405 --> 00:13:52,525 Speaker 4: and self serving manner, And then to treat her in 209 00:13:52,565 --> 00:13:55,565 Speaker 4: the most undignified way tells me everything I need to 210 00:13:55,565 --> 00:14:00,205 Speaker 4: know about you. This court judges you and has sentenced you. 211 00:14:00,205 --> 00:14:03,965 Speaker 4: You still have two more courts to face, the prison 212 00:14:04,085 --> 00:14:09,045 Speaker 4: system itself and the ultimate judgment by God himself. My 213 00:14:09,245 --> 00:14:11,765 Speaker 4: pain will never go away, but it will diminish my 214 00:14:11,885 --> 00:14:14,645 Speaker 4: Lord and Savior. As stated in the poem Footprints in 215 00:14:14,685 --> 00:14:17,845 Speaker 4: the Sand, never let me fall. Gave me courage and 216 00:14:17,885 --> 00:14:21,165 Speaker 4: carried me through these eighteen years, only to set me 217 00:14:21,245 --> 00:14:24,605 Speaker 4: down as a stronger, more faithful, more loving, more compassionate, 218 00:14:24,725 --> 00:14:28,565 Speaker 4: and truly better human being. We are all victims from you. 219 00:14:29,405 --> 00:14:34,525 Speaker 4: In your confession, you boastfully stated how you made fools 220 00:14:34,565 --> 00:14:37,925 Speaker 4: out of everybody. I am here to tell you that 221 00:14:37,925 --> 00:14:41,925 Speaker 4: that arrogance and your obvious pathology of needing to watch 222 00:14:42,005 --> 00:14:45,165 Speaker 4: the fire burn you set is what special Agent Mike 223 00:14:45,245 --> 00:14:50,885 Speaker 4: McNeil brilliantly used against you. In closing, I cannot describe 224 00:14:50,885 --> 00:14:53,645 Speaker 4: the amount of emotional trauma you have created in so 225 00:14:53,805 --> 00:14:57,165 Speaker 4: many lives. I can speak for hours regarding why you 226 00:14:57,205 --> 00:15:00,005 Speaker 4: should never be allowed out of the prison. I will 227 00:15:00,085 --> 00:15:03,645 Speaker 4: leave you with this one statement. Rebecca lives in all 228 00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:06,685 Speaker 4: of us. She will never die. She is sitting at 229 00:15:06,685 --> 00:15:09,685 Speaker 4: the right hand of the father, looking down a place 230 00:15:09,725 --> 00:15:12,485 Speaker 4: you will probably never see, but that is not my 231 00:15:12,605 --> 00:15:17,005 Speaker 4: place to judge. Rebecca inspires us all to better our 232 00:15:17,085 --> 00:15:20,325 Speaker 4: lives and to know that love and grace are words 233 00:15:20,805 --> 00:15:26,045 Speaker 4: I will always remember her by. 234 00:15:38,365 --> 00:15:40,645 Speaker 3: It's rasonal, It's so beautiful. 235 00:15:42,485 --> 00:15:44,765 Speaker 4: Thank you that one came from heart. 236 00:15:48,005 --> 00:15:50,525 Speaker 1: I got really emotional when he read that, and you 237 00:15:50,525 --> 00:15:53,125 Speaker 1: can probably hear it. As much as I try to 238 00:15:53,165 --> 00:15:56,085 Speaker 1: remain impartial and detached because I want to be able 239 00:15:56,125 --> 00:15:58,445 Speaker 1: to help the victims and not burden them with my pain, 240 00:15:58,805 --> 00:16:00,685 Speaker 1: and also I want to be able to see things 241 00:16:00,725 --> 00:16:03,205 Speaker 1: with an objective eye. At the end of the day, 242 00:16:03,445 --> 00:16:06,725 Speaker 1: we're all human. I've gone their challenges and losses of 243 00:16:06,725 --> 00:16:09,285 Speaker 1: my own over the past few years, and one of 244 00:16:09,285 --> 00:16:11,965 Speaker 1: the many things that I admire about Larry is his 245 00:16:12,045 --> 00:16:15,365 Speaker 1: ability to stay positive in the face of darkness. Over 246 00:16:15,365 --> 00:16:18,605 Speaker 1: the years, he sent me several supportive texts, even when 247 00:16:18,605 --> 00:16:20,845 Speaker 1: a lesser man would have been drowning in his own pain. 248 00:16:21,645 --> 00:16:23,885 Speaker 1: I admire him and I consider him a close friend, 249 00:16:24,325 --> 00:16:26,925 Speaker 1: and my friendships with George and Jennifer have been life 250 00:16:27,005 --> 00:16:30,925 Speaker 1: changing as well. Rebecca's death caused so many people pain, 251 00:16:31,325 --> 00:16:34,165 Speaker 1: but in her short life, she inspired so many people, 252 00:16:34,645 --> 00:16:37,445 Speaker 1: and that is something that I'm grateful for every single day. 253 00:16:46,445 --> 00:16:49,925 Speaker 1: But then Larry said he got a shock. After the 254 00:16:49,965 --> 00:16:53,365 Speaker 1: sentencing was passed, Billy indicated that he would be willing 255 00:16:53,405 --> 00:16:56,325 Speaker 1: to talk to Larry privately, and the judge said that 256 00:16:56,365 --> 00:16:59,485 Speaker 1: he would allow that to take place. Larry and Rebecca's 257 00:16:59,485 --> 00:17:02,205 Speaker 1: older sister, Tiffany went to a small back room where 258 00:17:02,245 --> 00:17:04,005 Speaker 1: Billy was seated behind a glass barrier. 259 00:17:04,725 --> 00:17:09,125 Speaker 4: I was still to size him up and understand this man. 260 00:17:10,205 --> 00:17:14,445 Speaker 4: I interjected a few questions to him right off the bat, 261 00:17:15,125 --> 00:17:19,125 Speaker 4: and I gave him an opportunity to tell the truth 262 00:17:19,965 --> 00:17:23,885 Speaker 4: that I wanted to know exactly what happened. You know, 263 00:17:23,925 --> 00:17:26,485 Speaker 4: he's already convicted, he's already in there. This is a 264 00:17:26,525 --> 00:17:29,645 Speaker 4: good chance to get it all out. So what I 265 00:17:29,805 --> 00:17:34,445 Speaker 4: found in this face to face approach with him was 266 00:17:35,085 --> 00:17:38,845 Speaker 4: a man that was not so much wanting to talk 267 00:17:39,605 --> 00:17:44,445 Speaker 4: as he felt compelled to talk, and he was willing 268 00:17:44,485 --> 00:17:49,005 Speaker 4: to answer questions. But as he began to talk about 269 00:17:49,005 --> 00:17:55,085 Speaker 4: what actually happened, everything changed. He sat up a little straighter, 270 00:17:56,165 --> 00:17:59,125 Speaker 4: his chest came out a little bit more, his voice 271 00:17:59,165 --> 00:18:03,405 Speaker 4: elevated a little bit, and he began to take control 272 00:18:03,765 --> 00:18:07,325 Speaker 4: of the room. So it all changed. And I think 273 00:18:07,365 --> 00:18:10,485 Speaker 4: it changed because had he been sincere, he would have 274 00:18:10,565 --> 00:18:13,845 Speaker 4: wanted want of me and Tiffany was there. He would 275 00:18:13,885 --> 00:18:19,285 Speaker 4: have wanted us to feel that he was apologetic, to 276 00:18:19,325 --> 00:18:23,445 Speaker 4: feel that he was remorseful. He was placating. He was 277 00:18:23,485 --> 00:18:29,125 Speaker 4: trying to make everything appear not a way that was acceptable, 278 00:18:29,685 --> 00:18:33,285 Speaker 4: but a way that did not make him appear like he's, 279 00:18:34,805 --> 00:18:40,685 Speaker 4: like I said, monster like minimizing completely. So the part 280 00:18:40,725 --> 00:18:44,605 Speaker 4: that change was okay. He enters a trailer. He I 281 00:18:44,605 --> 00:18:46,965 Speaker 4: think he had originally said that he wanted to use 282 00:18:47,005 --> 00:18:50,925 Speaker 4: the phone. Rebecca goes back, which would have been I guess, 283 00:18:50,965 --> 00:18:55,085 Speaker 4: to the bedroom. He's pacing back and forth, and the 284 00:18:55,125 --> 00:18:59,605 Speaker 4: words he used there was all of a sudden, it 285 00:18:59,725 --> 00:19:03,805 Speaker 4: just was building in him, and then the switch went 286 00:19:03,885 --> 00:19:07,205 Speaker 4: off and then he went in and he grabbed a 287 00:19:07,245 --> 00:19:11,805 Speaker 4: piano leg. He went in and he struck her twice. Now, 288 00:19:11,965 --> 00:19:15,325 Speaker 4: in the actual confession he says that he strangled her 289 00:19:15,725 --> 00:19:20,165 Speaker 4: with a necktie and that she was lifeless. Now he's 290 00:19:20,205 --> 00:19:23,085 Speaker 4: saying that he didn't strangle her, that he actually started 291 00:19:23,085 --> 00:19:26,645 Speaker 4: to perform CPR, and that every time he would pump 292 00:19:26,685 --> 00:19:29,365 Speaker 4: on her the blood would go all over. So now 293 00:19:29,365 --> 00:19:32,005 Speaker 4: he's making it look like he's a rescuer. And then 294 00:19:32,165 --> 00:19:35,125 Speaker 4: it gets to where in his testimony basically he took 295 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:38,005 Speaker 4: her like a sack of whatever and threw over the fence, 296 00:19:38,125 --> 00:19:41,925 Speaker 4: threw into the truck, threw off the truck. Now it's 297 00:19:42,045 --> 00:19:46,765 Speaker 4: I gingerly put her over the fence. I eased her 298 00:19:46,805 --> 00:19:51,845 Speaker 4: into the truck. It's all this appeasement. He wasn't doing 299 00:19:51,845 --> 00:19:56,485 Speaker 4: it for us, he was doing it for himself. And 300 00:19:56,525 --> 00:19:58,645 Speaker 4: I had had enough, so I got up and I 301 00:19:58,765 --> 00:19:59,525 Speaker 4: left after that. 302 00:20:03,005 --> 00:20:06,645 Speaker 1: So I agree with Larry's interpretation that there are parts 303 00:20:06,685 --> 00:20:09,405 Speaker 1: of the confession where it seems that Billy Miller is 304 00:20:09,445 --> 00:20:11,765 Speaker 1: trying to make himself seem more compassionate than he was, 305 00:20:12,765 --> 00:20:15,725 Speaker 1: Like when Billy says he was trying to give Rebecca 306 00:20:15,805 --> 00:20:19,005 Speaker 1: CPR or crying. I believe that this is his way 307 00:20:19,005 --> 00:20:23,125 Speaker 1: of explaining why investigators could potentially find his DNA on 308 00:20:23,205 --> 00:20:26,325 Speaker 1: Rebecca's shirt or in her facial area. And I don't 309 00:20:26,365 --> 00:20:29,405 Speaker 1: believe for one second that that DNA came from attempts 310 00:20:29,445 --> 00:20:33,125 Speaker 1: to save Rebecca's life or from Billy's tears. If any 311 00:20:33,205 --> 00:20:36,885 Speaker 1: trace of Billy's bodily fluids are there. I believe that 312 00:20:36,885 --> 00:20:39,925 Speaker 1: they would be there because he was attacking Rebecca, and 313 00:20:40,045 --> 00:20:43,085 Speaker 1: Billy using words like placed her body instead of through 314 00:20:43,125 --> 00:20:46,365 Speaker 1: her body. I would put that in the same category. Again, 315 00:20:46,565 --> 00:20:49,525 Speaker 1: he's trying to minimize his actions. We always have to 316 00:20:49,565 --> 00:20:52,805 Speaker 1: remember that every single thing that Billy Miller says has 317 00:20:52,805 --> 00:20:55,685 Speaker 1: a purpose, and that purpose is serving his own self interest. 318 00:20:56,485 --> 00:20:58,845 Speaker 1: He's trying to mislead and he's doing things for his 319 00:20:58,845 --> 00:21:02,685 Speaker 1: own reasons, which is why I Ann, Jennifer and George 320 00:21:02,685 --> 00:21:05,325 Speaker 1: and others are surprised by the fact that the ASP 321 00:21:05,565 --> 00:21:08,285 Speaker 1: have relied so heavily on Billy's own words and on 322 00:21:08,325 --> 00:21:11,765 Speaker 1: his confession. Because after being one of the only people 323 00:21:11,845 --> 00:21:14,645 Speaker 1: so far to view the crime scene photos, I have 324 00:21:14,685 --> 00:21:18,245 Speaker 1: to say, so far parts of that confession do not 325 00:21:18,405 --> 00:21:21,645 Speaker 1: seem to match up with the physical evidence. Let's look 326 00:21:21,645 --> 00:21:24,965 Speaker 1: at some of the other major differences in the confession. First, 327 00:21:25,085 --> 00:21:28,245 Speaker 1: Billy said that he strangled Rebecca with a necktie, but 328 00:21:28,525 --> 00:21:31,525 Speaker 1: he later told Larry that he didn't. What does the 329 00:21:31,565 --> 00:21:35,005 Speaker 1: evidence say? In that pre trial hearing on October third, 330 00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:38,525 Speaker 1: I was also able to finally hear what the medical 331 00:21:38,565 --> 00:21:42,805 Speaker 1: examiner had to say about Rebecca's body Charles Cocus was 332 00:21:42,805 --> 00:21:46,165 Speaker 1: the medical examiner on the Rebecca Gould case. Doctor Cocus 333 00:21:46,205 --> 00:21:50,005 Speaker 1: confirmed that Rebecca's hyoid bone was intact. It was not broken. 334 00:21:50,605 --> 00:21:54,925 Speaker 1: Rebecca's thyroid bone was also intact. These are the two 335 00:21:55,045 --> 00:21:59,125 Speaker 1: organs that are often damaged when someone is strangled. Now, 336 00:21:59,165 --> 00:22:02,285 Speaker 1: it is possible for those bones to not be broken 337 00:22:02,405 --> 00:22:06,285 Speaker 1: in a case involving strangulation, especially since Rebecca would have 338 00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:09,285 Speaker 1: been hitting the head multiple times and be very weak, 339 00:22:09,845 --> 00:22:12,285 Speaker 1: so it wouldn't have taken much force to strangle her. 340 00:22:12,845 --> 00:22:16,365 Speaker 1: While this isn't definitive, it does make it less likely 341 00:22:16,445 --> 00:22:19,845 Speaker 1: that she was strangled. What's interesting to me is that 342 00:22:19,885 --> 00:22:23,725 Speaker 1: Billy Miller seemed to modify his story after he saw 343 00:22:23,765 --> 00:22:26,685 Speaker 1: the crime scene photos and the autopsy photos in court. 344 00:22:27,685 --> 00:22:30,965 Speaker 1: I know through George and Jennifer that Billy was active 345 00:22:31,005 --> 00:22:34,525 Speaker 1: on their social media community Unsolved Murder of Rebecca Gould, 346 00:22:35,045 --> 00:22:38,285 Speaker 1: and that the strangulation theory was one that a lot 347 00:22:38,325 --> 00:22:42,325 Speaker 1: of people talked about on that page. In fact, George 348 00:22:42,325 --> 00:22:44,685 Speaker 1: and Jennifer and I are noticing that a lot of 349 00:22:44,685 --> 00:22:48,005 Speaker 1: the terminology that Billy used in his confession was almost 350 00:22:48,045 --> 00:22:50,925 Speaker 1: word for word what had been written on that social 351 00:22:51,005 --> 00:22:56,525 Speaker 1: media site in Billy's original confession, he said that he 352 00:22:56,605 --> 00:22:59,405 Speaker 1: attacked and beat Rebecca while she was lying down in 353 00:22:59,445 --> 00:23:03,405 Speaker 1: bed in the bedroom. But remember in Helen Gone season one, 354 00:23:03,525 --> 00:23:06,285 Speaker 1: we talked to a witness, someone who told us that 355 00:23:06,405 --> 00:23:09,325 Speaker 1: Casey had hit Rebecca while she was standing up outside 356 00:23:09,365 --> 00:23:12,565 Speaker 1: the bedroom arguing with him. Now, in the crime scene 357 00:23:12,565 --> 00:23:15,685 Speaker 1: photos that I saw in the courtroom, there appeared to 358 00:23:15,725 --> 00:23:18,205 Speaker 1: be a large amount of blood on the brown carpeting 359 00:23:18,245 --> 00:23:21,845 Speaker 1: outside the bedroom and in the kitchen area. Billy says 360 00:23:22,005 --> 00:23:25,925 Speaker 1: that he did all of this alone. So if that's true, 361 00:23:26,205 --> 00:23:29,485 Speaker 1: why would he lie about where it happened. There are 362 00:23:29,525 --> 00:23:33,245 Speaker 1: a lot of other contradictions. For example, Billy said that 363 00:23:33,285 --> 00:23:36,125 Speaker 1: there were folded clothes on the bed, which presumably belonged 364 00:23:36,165 --> 00:23:39,285 Speaker 1: to Rebecca. This matched what we had always read in 365 00:23:39,365 --> 00:23:42,885 Speaker 1: newspaper articles about the case. But after seeing the crime 366 00:23:42,925 --> 00:23:46,045 Speaker 1: scene photos, there were no folded clothes on the bed. 367 00:23:46,085 --> 00:23:48,885 Speaker 1: There was nothing on the bed. Billy said that he 368 00:23:48,925 --> 00:23:51,365 Speaker 1: struck Rebecca with a piano leg and then it shattered. 369 00:23:51,765 --> 00:23:54,685 Speaker 1: So where are the wood fragments? And if he was 370 00:23:54,765 --> 00:23:57,605 Speaker 1: working alone and panicking to clean up that crime scene, 371 00:23:58,165 --> 00:24:00,925 Speaker 1: why were there brand new cleaning products out on the counter. 372 00:24:01,725 --> 00:24:04,005 Speaker 1: Did he go buy cleaning products and bring them back. 373 00:24:04,525 --> 00:24:06,565 Speaker 1: And if he did start cleaning up and took the 374 00:24:06,605 --> 00:24:09,685 Speaker 1: time to put bloody clothes on a wash cycle, why 375 00:24:09,685 --> 00:24:12,565 Speaker 1: would he not deal with the blood soaked carpet? Was 376 00:24:12,605 --> 00:24:15,365 Speaker 1: he planning to come back? Wouldn't he worry that the 377 00:24:15,405 --> 00:24:17,965 Speaker 1: stuff would be visible to Casey and others who came 378 00:24:18,005 --> 00:24:18,725 Speaker 1: into that trailer. 379 00:24:24,725 --> 00:24:28,085 Speaker 4: This man definitely did it, but the gray area was 380 00:24:28,085 --> 00:24:31,645 Speaker 4: not answered. And the gray area is was there somebody 381 00:24:31,645 --> 00:24:32,205 Speaker 4: else there? 382 00:24:33,405 --> 00:24:33,605 Speaker 1: Yeah? 383 00:24:34,045 --> 00:24:37,205 Speaker 4: Is there somebody else help help with this? He was 384 00:24:38,405 --> 00:24:40,125 Speaker 4: He wasn't going to tell you to tell the truth 385 00:24:41,085 --> 00:24:44,085 Speaker 4: and so and that's that became really obvious real fast, 386 00:24:44,725 --> 00:24:47,205 Speaker 4: And that's what I was hoping for. I thought, you know, 387 00:24:47,245 --> 00:24:49,365 Speaker 4: give the guy a chance. Let's see if he'll, if 388 00:24:49,365 --> 00:24:53,165 Speaker 4: he will break down and really detail exactly what happened 389 00:24:53,765 --> 00:24:55,205 Speaker 4: and didn't happen. 390 00:24:59,885 --> 00:25:03,125 Speaker 1: So, if Billy is not telling the truth about how 391 00:25:03,165 --> 00:25:07,365 Speaker 1: Rebecca died, I wonder or could he be hiding something else? 392 00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:11,485 Speaker 1: I talked to George Jarrett and Jennifer Buckles about these 393 00:25:11,485 --> 00:25:15,925 Speaker 1: two different confessions, and he said he placed her and 394 00:25:15,965 --> 00:25:17,285 Speaker 1: he said he didn't strangle her. 395 00:25:18,325 --> 00:25:20,765 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I noticed that. 396 00:25:20,845 --> 00:25:23,205 Speaker 6: So when he went before the judge, and the Judge's like, 397 00:25:23,285 --> 00:25:24,805 Speaker 6: you know, this is we're being charguate. This is what 398 00:25:24,805 --> 00:25:27,325 Speaker 6: you're pleading to Okay, now explain to the court why 399 00:25:28,125 --> 00:25:32,125 Speaker 6: for what you did that meets this charge. And he said, well, 400 00:25:32,765 --> 00:25:38,685 Speaker 6: on September twentieth, two thousand and four, I hit Rebecca. 401 00:25:39,045 --> 00:25:40,645 Speaker 6: I can't remember if you said her last name or not, 402 00:25:41,085 --> 00:25:43,565 Speaker 6: but I hit Rebecca twice and then I dumped her 403 00:25:43,605 --> 00:25:44,765 Speaker 6: body off Highway nine. 404 00:25:44,845 --> 00:25:46,085 Speaker 3: That's literally what he said. 405 00:25:46,325 --> 00:25:48,725 Speaker 6: And I immediately noticed, like, wait a minute, what happened 406 00:25:48,725 --> 00:25:52,205 Speaker 6: to the strangulation. But then when doctor Gould came out 407 00:25:52,245 --> 00:25:53,925 Speaker 6: from talking to him, he's like, well, he told me 408 00:25:54,005 --> 00:25:58,605 Speaker 6: he did not strangle her and instead try to perform CPR, 409 00:25:58,805 --> 00:26:00,965 Speaker 6: which is why there was blood all over the house. 410 00:26:02,165 --> 00:26:05,965 Speaker 5: And can't What I think happened is he found out 411 00:26:06,045 --> 00:26:10,045 Speaker 5: that they didn't find the necktie and the necktie thing 412 00:26:10,765 --> 00:26:14,565 Speaker 5: is for whatever reason, and it jumped out to me 413 00:26:15,045 --> 00:26:17,325 Speaker 5: it just seems like a more heinous crime because he 414 00:26:17,405 --> 00:26:19,485 Speaker 5: hit her in the head, she was probably gonna. 415 00:26:19,285 --> 00:26:21,485 Speaker 2: Die, and then he takes the necktie and strangles her, 416 00:26:21,725 --> 00:26:24,165 Speaker 2: and a lot of people see it that way. And 417 00:26:24,325 --> 00:26:27,525 Speaker 2: he also told doctor Gould that he wasn't sure if 418 00:26:27,565 --> 00:26:29,285 Speaker 2: she was dead when he left her on the side 419 00:26:29,285 --> 00:26:32,805 Speaker 2: of the road. And so what he's doing is he's saying, Hey, 420 00:26:32,805 --> 00:26:34,925 Speaker 2: I did hurt her, and she was hurt when I 421 00:26:35,005 --> 00:26:37,845 Speaker 2: left her, but maybe she didn't die because of that. 422 00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:40,405 Speaker 2: Why is it a TBR. 423 00:26:40,725 --> 00:26:44,125 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's minimizing. He's just trying to minimize what he did. 424 00:26:44,325 --> 00:26:45,845 Speaker 3: Probably, Yeah, it. 425 00:26:45,805 --> 00:26:48,125 Speaker 6: Was to alleviate his own guilt, is what he did. 426 00:26:48,285 --> 00:26:52,485 Speaker 6: And then you're revictimizing these family members again. 427 00:26:53,165 --> 00:26:55,205 Speaker 1: Oh of course because then because then they're thinking about 428 00:26:55,205 --> 00:26:57,925 Speaker 1: her land on the side of the road. 429 00:26:58,125 --> 00:27:02,605 Speaker 6: Yeah, And it's too totally two totally different, basically totally 430 00:27:02,605 --> 00:27:04,965 Speaker 6: different confessions. So it's like, well, what are we supposed 431 00:27:04,965 --> 00:27:05,285 Speaker 6: to believe? 432 00:27:08,165 --> 00:27:11,565 Speaker 1: As anyone who listens to Helen God knows, I am 433 00:27:11,645 --> 00:27:15,445 Speaker 1: much more interested in victimology, in understanding the victims and 434 00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:18,405 Speaker 1: getting into their world, than I am into delving into 435 00:27:18,445 --> 00:27:21,085 Speaker 1: the mind of a killer. I guess that could be 436 00:27:21,085 --> 00:27:24,325 Speaker 1: because I don't see anything special about killers. But I 437 00:27:24,365 --> 00:27:27,165 Speaker 1: made a promise to myself and to Rebecca Gould back 438 00:27:27,165 --> 00:27:29,845 Speaker 1: in the very beginning that I would talk to anyone 439 00:27:30,085 --> 00:27:32,845 Speaker 1: who could provide more information that would help lead to 440 00:27:32,925 --> 00:27:36,125 Speaker 1: answers as to what really happened to her, and that 441 00:27:36,165 --> 00:27:44,085 Speaker 1: includes Billy Miller. I'm writing a letter to Billy Miller. 442 00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:48,845 Speaker 1: It reads, Billy, this is a strange letter to write, 443 00:27:49,165 --> 00:27:51,925 Speaker 1: because even though we are strangers, I feel like, in 444 00:27:51,965 --> 00:27:54,565 Speaker 1: a very weird way, we have been part of each 445 00:27:54,565 --> 00:27:57,765 Speaker 1: other's lives for the past several years. When I started 446 00:27:57,805 --> 00:28:00,525 Speaker 1: Helen Gone, I wanted two things. To find out the 447 00:28:00,565 --> 00:28:03,365 Speaker 1: truth about what really happened to Rebecca Gould and to 448 00:28:03,405 --> 00:28:06,685 Speaker 1: bring her killer to justice. I assumed that if the 449 00:28:06,725 --> 00:28:10,285 Speaker 1: second one happened, the first one would two. But after 450 00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:13,445 Speaker 1: everything that has gone down, I and our audience, which 451 00:28:13,485 --> 00:28:15,605 Speaker 1: at this point, as I'm sure you know, is tens 452 00:28:15,605 --> 00:28:18,765 Speaker 1: of millions of people all around the world, still have 453 00:28:19,005 --> 00:28:22,845 Speaker 1: so many unanswered questions. They and I want to know 454 00:28:22,885 --> 00:28:25,485 Speaker 1: who you are so that they can understand why you 455 00:28:25,525 --> 00:28:28,325 Speaker 1: did what you did. All anyone is seen of you 456 00:28:28,445 --> 00:28:30,965 Speaker 1: so far is the guy in the confession video who 457 00:28:31,005 --> 00:28:34,525 Speaker 1: called himself a monster. Just so you'll know where I'm 458 00:28:34,525 --> 00:28:37,685 Speaker 1: coming from, I don't believe life is that simple. I 459 00:28:37,685 --> 00:28:40,565 Speaker 1: don't believe that anyone is all good or all evil. 460 00:28:41,045 --> 00:28:43,325 Speaker 1: I don't believe in heaven or hell, or that there 461 00:28:43,365 --> 00:28:45,565 Speaker 1: is a higher power with a plan who intervenes in 462 00:28:45,605 --> 00:28:50,325 Speaker 1: our lives. A lot of people, myself included, have violent urges, 463 00:28:50,765 --> 00:28:52,845 Speaker 1: which I'm sure is part of the reason why true 464 00:28:52,845 --> 00:28:56,765 Speaker 1: crime and horror movies are so popular. I do care 465 00:28:56,885 --> 00:29:00,645 Speaker 1: passionately about justice and finding answers, but I have to 466 00:29:00,685 --> 00:29:02,725 Speaker 1: admit there is also a part of me that is 467 00:29:02,805 --> 00:29:05,885 Speaker 1: drawn to that darkness in all of us, and that's 468 00:29:05,925 --> 00:29:09,325 Speaker 1: probably the reason why I do this job. But you 469 00:29:09,405 --> 00:29:12,365 Speaker 1: actually went to the next level and acted on your urges. 470 00:29:12,965 --> 00:29:15,325 Speaker 1: I would like to know why, Why do you think 471 00:29:15,325 --> 00:29:17,325 Speaker 1: you feel these things, and what makes you make the 472 00:29:17,365 --> 00:29:20,245 Speaker 1: decision to act on them. Would you be interested in 473 00:29:20,285 --> 00:29:22,565 Speaker 1: doing an interview with me, either over the phone or 474 00:29:22,605 --> 00:29:25,205 Speaker 1: in person. If you agree to talk to me, I 475 00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:27,685 Speaker 1: can promise you that I will put your story, your 476 00:29:27,725 --> 00:29:31,325 Speaker 1: words out there in a fair way. A lot of 477 00:29:31,365 --> 00:29:33,445 Speaker 1: people have tried to talk me out of contacting you, 478 00:29:34,085 --> 00:29:37,485 Speaker 1: but I'm reaching out anyway because there is still a 479 00:29:37,525 --> 00:29:40,525 Speaker 1: big piece missing of what actually happened to Rebecca that day, 480 00:29:40,965 --> 00:29:43,925 Speaker 1: and there are answers that only you can provide. I 481 00:29:43,925 --> 00:29:47,045 Speaker 1: have zero agenda beyond getting to the truth. If you 482 00:29:47,125 --> 00:29:50,405 Speaker 1: acted alone, this is your chance to explain the discrepancies 483 00:29:50,405 --> 00:29:52,365 Speaker 1: in the story in a way that could really help 484 00:29:52,445 --> 00:29:55,765 Speaker 1: the rest of your family escape suspicion. I would also 485 00:29:55,885 --> 00:29:58,765 Speaker 1: like to understand why you did what you did. I'm 486 00:29:58,805 --> 00:30:02,125 Speaker 1: hoping that through that understanding, maybe someone who is having 487 00:30:02,125 --> 00:30:04,405 Speaker 1: the types of feelings and urges that you were describing 488 00:30:04,805 --> 00:30:06,685 Speaker 1: might be able to get help or channel them in 489 00:30:06,725 --> 00:30:09,965 Speaker 1: another way. You may not be able to control what 490 00:30:10,005 --> 00:30:13,125 Speaker 1: happened in the past, but you can control whether the 491 00:30:13,205 --> 00:30:15,285 Speaker 1: last thing your children read about you as they grow 492 00:30:15,365 --> 00:30:18,845 Speaker 1: up is that you were a monster who brutally murdered someone. 493 00:30:19,045 --> 00:30:21,885 Speaker 1: You can choose what to do next. It's your call. 494 00:30:27,725 --> 00:30:31,685 Speaker 1: We'll see if he gets back to me. I'm Catherine Townsend. 495 00:30:32,045 --> 00:30:49,205 Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of 496 00:30:49,245 --> 00:30:53,245 Speaker 1: School of Humans and iHeartMedia. Our producer is Gabby Watts. 497 00:30:53,925 --> 00:30:58,125 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and L. C. Crowley. 498 00:30:58,845 --> 00:31:02,245 Speaker 1: Music is by Ben Sale Special thanks to season one 499 00:31:02,285 --> 00:31:22,205 Speaker 1: producers Taylor Church and James Morrison m H. School of Humans. 500 00:31:23,885 --> 00:31:24,805 Speaker 1: School of Humans