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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Good Mom's Bad Choices. I'm Erica and

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Speaker 1: I'm Nila.

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Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: Happy Wednesday, everyone.

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Speaker 1: It is the last episode of Design Your Life August.

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Speaker 1: This month has been so amazing, you know, connecting with

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Speaker 1: so many different people talking about our experiences and you know,

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Speaker 1: designing our life. And I'm just really excited because I

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Speaker 1: think you guys have heard us talk about our book club,

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Speaker 1: and we have been meeting up with our book club

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Speaker 1: every two weeks and we're reading The Ethical Slut right

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Speaker 1: now by Janet Hardy and Dossy Easton, and it's just

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Speaker 1: been so empowering. So, I don't know, just a lot

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Speaker 1: of deep reflection happening.

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Speaker 3: A lot of enlightenment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like I'm connecting with my tribe just

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Speaker 4: but I'm like, I knew I.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't the only one. I knew it.

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Speaker 1: I knew this made sense. God, I knew I could

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Speaker 1: slat and be respected and happy.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm really really really excited. You know, Erica

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Speaker 4: and I are master manifestors. Our entity is on point.

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Speaker 4: And when we started reading this book and we started

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Speaker 4: this book club, we were like, oh my god, we

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Speaker 4: have to find Janet and Dossie. We have to find

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Speaker 4: them and we have to email them and they I

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Speaker 4: would really like to talk to her or them, And

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Speaker 4: sure enough we found Janet Hardy and she's joining us today.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Janet, the author of The Ethical Slut and

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Speaker 4: fellow Mama and just badass woman for coming on our

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Speaker 4: show today.

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Speaker 5: My very great pleasure. I love doing these.

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Speaker 3: How are you doing today?

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Speaker 5: My life is a little bit confusing right now, but

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Speaker 5: you don't want to hear about that. It's not relevant

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Speaker 5: to your audience.

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Speaker 4: Mostly fine, Well, I'm sure no matter what audience is listening,

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Speaker 4: anybody's audience always has some shit, because that's life, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, My stuff right now is aging related stuff. And

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Speaker 5: you get to, you know, your late sixties, and there

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Speaker 5: are things to be considered. So someday, you know, forty

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Speaker 5: years from now, you guys will look back and said, yeah,

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Speaker 5: Janet tried to tell me about that.

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Speaker 4: There's so many being a woman that shit people don't

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Speaker 4: tell you, I know, God, including Yeah, as you get

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Speaker 4: older and the things that you have to really be

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Speaker 4: mindful of, think about and consider.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll offline about that later. And I have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of questions, How can I better prepare?

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Speaker 2: So Janet.

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Speaker 1: At the top of our show, we typically pull a card,

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Speaker 1: and so I did pull a card. And today's card

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Speaker 1: is the page of cups.

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Speaker 4: The page of cups, guys, and this card, it's a

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Speaker 4: creative card for opportunities, intuitive messages, and curiosity impossibilities.

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Speaker 3: On the page of Cups, it's.

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Speaker 4: A man who's wearing like a blue tunic with a

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Speaker 4: floral print and a beret on his head that's long

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Speaker 4: and a flowing scarf. He stands on the shore with

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Speaker 4: a wavy sea behind him, holding a cup in his

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Speaker 4: right hand. Surprisingly, a fish pops its head out of

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Speaker 4: the cup and looks at the sea behind him.

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Speaker 3: What does all of this mean? Though?

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Speaker 4: The page of cup suggests a new idea or opportunity

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Speaker 4: has come to you out of the blue. Your creative

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Speaker 4: energy is flowing, and now the question is how you

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Speaker 4: will express it. Will you snap up this new idea

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Speaker 4: and turn it into something or will you let someone

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Speaker 4: else bring it into fruition. It is up to you

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Speaker 4: to spend the time exploring the idea and see what

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Speaker 4: you want to move forward. Hm, it's the time of birthing.

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Speaker 4: It seems you know, the fish always like when you

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Speaker 4: dream of fish, they always say like someone's pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Relax.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not saying that there's birthing as in an idea.

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Speaker 3: Women in the room and none of us have no baby.

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Speaker 4: There's no babies to be had between the three of us,

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Speaker 4: four of us.

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Speaker 3: I'm getting my hair braided.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, by the way, you guys, this say, isn't

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Speaker 1: get another episode of Jamale getting her hair braided.

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Speaker 4: Us getting her hair? Well, yeah, I'm getting my hair

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Speaker 4: braided this time. But you know, girls got to do

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Speaker 4: what a girl's got to do. So here we are

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Speaker 4: doing what we got to do.

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Speaker 1: Janet, do you have an affirmation that you can share today?

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm not really an affirmation kind of a person.

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Speaker 5: I get up in the morning and see what the

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Speaker 5: day looks like and make my decisions based on what's ahead.

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Speaker 5: So take it as it comes, I guess is my affirmation.

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Speaker 3: Take it as it comes.

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Speaker 4: That's a good affirmation because that is you got to

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Speaker 4: take everything as it comes. You can't overanalyze and overexpect.

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Speaker 3: I don't hate it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of an anti affirmation affirmation, but that's

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Speaker 5: my life.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, the same thing. Girls got to do,

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Speaker 3: girls gotta.

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Speaker 1: Do well, you can't do anything but take it as

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Speaker 1: it comes, because you don't know what the fuck is

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Speaker 1: gonna come.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I read the most marvelous poem the other day

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Speaker 5: that this man was writing about the battle between his

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Speaker 5: heart and his brain, and his brain was all in

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Speaker 5: the future and his heart was all in the past,

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Speaker 5: and eventually wound up spending time with his lungs because

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Speaker 5: breathing is what you do in the now. And I

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Speaker 5: loved it so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. It's true.

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Speaker 3: It is true.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes we worry so much about the shit we can't control,

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Speaker 4: we forget to be present, and like it ruins. You

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Speaker 4: wake up a morning like should have been stressing for

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Speaker 4: eight days or eight years or whatever, and you're like,

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Speaker 4: should have been present?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just want to jump into this book and

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Speaker 1: you know your journey with the Ethical Slut. This month's

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Speaker 1: theme on the podcast is designing your life, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like, obviously sex and sexuality is.

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Speaker 2: A huge part of that.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you, how has being an

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Speaker 1: ethical slut helped design your life?

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Speaker 5: It has less to do with who I'm having sex

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Speaker 5: with at the time, as it does with not making

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Speaker 5: hard boundaries between things. If the world is trying to

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Speaker 5: present me two options A and B, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: be thinking about what C might be. Because once you

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Speaker 5: step away from paradigm of lifelong monogamy, which let's face

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Speaker 5: it is not working very well for a lot of people,

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Speaker 5: then you get away from the kind of dualistic wrong

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Speaker 5: or right kind of thinking begin to consider all the

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Speaker 5: options that are out there, including doing nothing, which is

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Speaker 5: an option that I think doesn't get quite as much

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Speaker 5: attention as it should. It's just a more fluid way

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Speaker 5: of looking at the world.

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful.

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Speaker 4: I have a question, like, can you tell us how

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Speaker 4: this came about? Like I know you've written other books,

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Speaker 4: but like Ethical Sled. We're reading right now the third

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Speaker 4: edition in our book club. But this is not before

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Speaker 4: It's time because people have been having sex and being

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Speaker 4: sexual for forever. Obviously we're existing, But like, what made

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Speaker 4: you motivated you to write this book? Like what's your

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Speaker 4: relationship with Dossie? How did you guys come together and

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Speaker 4: like start this journey? Because you've made the third edition,

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Speaker 4: so it's going to live forever. It's something that everyone

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Speaker 4: needs to hear and read through no matter what, like

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Speaker 4: what life, your style you're exploring. I feel like so,

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Speaker 4: I'm just curious at that time, when you wrote this book,

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Speaker 4: when it was less common and like acceptable to talk

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Speaker 4: about sex in this way, how did it come about?

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Speaker 5: Dossie and I had already written two other BDSM books

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Speaker 5: at the time. We'd written the Bottoming Book and the

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Speaker 5: Topping Book, and so we were getting invited to speak

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Speaker 5: about those and we met before we started writing books. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: she was doing a program at a BDSM club and

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Speaker 5: she needed a demo model for a caning demo she

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Speaker 5: wanted to do. And I got wind of this, and

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Speaker 5: I knew DOSSI to weigh at but not well, and

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Speaker 5: I said to me, I want to do that. So

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Speaker 5: we met up ahead of time to go over our

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Speaker 5: plans for the workshop and what my limits were and

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Speaker 5: so on. And during that conversation over coffee, I said,

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Speaker 5: you know, someone asked me the most interesting question the

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Speaker 5: other day. They asked, Okay, you have written a good

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Speaker 5: book about how to be a female top or dom,

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Speaker 5: and your partner Jay has written a good book about

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Speaker 5: how to do BDSM, mostly as a top or as

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Speaker 5: a dom. When is someone going to write a good

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Speaker 5: book about how to be a bottom? And I thought,

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Speaker 5: what a good question that is, because a lot of

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Speaker 5: people think that a bottom is a blank canvas, and

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Speaker 5: that is not the case. There's a lot of skills

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Speaker 5: involved in being a good bottom, and a lot of

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Speaker 5: ways of channeling the energy that you have to get

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Speaker 5: good at. And so here I was having coffee with Dossie,

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Speaker 5: who was one of the best bottoms I'd ever seen,

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Speaker 5: and I said, someone asked me this great question, would

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Speaker 5: you be interested in writing a book about that? Because

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Speaker 5: I was at the time running Greenery Press that published

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Speaker 5: all these books. And she said, well, yes, I think

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Speaker 5: it's a great idea for a book, but I don't

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Speaker 5: feel like I can write it by myself. I think

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Speaker 5: I would need a colleague to write this. And so

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Speaker 5: that was how we met. We wrote the book together,

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Speaker 5: and then we wrote another book together, and then we

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Speaker 5: wrote another book together, and then we wrote another book

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Speaker 5: together for in total. So, okay, what was the workshop

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Speaker 5: on It was called pain Play with Canes. Pain Play

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Speaker 5: with Canes from Psyche to Soma, because that's the way

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Speaker 5: to wow. We are both big fans of being on

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Speaker 5: either end of a cane, and so that was just

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Speaker 5: a really excellent way for us to connect because you know,

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Speaker 5: even in front of an audience something like that, where

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Speaker 5: you're doing intense sensation play, it's deeply intimate. And so

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Speaker 5: we connected very deeply through this demo and we've been friends, colleagues, sometimes, lovers,

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Speaker 5: sometimes play partners, always collaborators, and lovers, whether it's physical

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Speaker 5: lovers or emotional lovers for thirty years next time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so beautiful.

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Speaker 4: You know what, I've never heard anyone say, like physical

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Speaker 4: lovers or what was that other companion lovers emotion Well,

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Speaker 4: because Erica and I always call each other platonic wives.

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Speaker 4: We are emotional lovers because we support each other in

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Speaker 4: all things, but we're not physical lovers. But now I

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Speaker 4: have another term to add to our our LinkedIn.

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Speaker 2: Our emotional LinkedIn.

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Speaker 5: My current marriage is that we are emotionally deeply bonded,

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Speaker 5: but we are not sexual together, which is partly an

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Speaker 5: age thing and partly we have both had all the

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Speaker 5: kinds of sex to have in the world and we're

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Speaker 5: kind of done, so we don't connect at that level.

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Speaker 5: I ran across a term the other day in a

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Speaker 5: story I was reading queer platonic, and so I went

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Speaker 5: and looked it up, because nobody can keep up with

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Speaker 5: all the terminologies that are getting made these days. But

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Speaker 5: queer platonic is you, guys, and it's us. It's a

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Speaker 5: really useful construct. And I think that's also a part

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Speaker 5: of the way of looking at life that being an

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Speaker 5: ethical slut involves, is recognizing all of your love relationships

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Speaker 5: as being important, whether or not they are sexual, whether

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Speaker 5: or not they're romantic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's so important.

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Speaker 1: I think we talked about that last month on the

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Speaker 1: podcast just how platonic love or queer platonic, platonicy.

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Speaker 5: Queer platonic. Yes, it's not one of the easier ones

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Speaker 5: to say. The actors Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, the

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Speaker 5: British actors call their relationship, they call themself those heterosexual

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Speaker 5: life partners, which you know, gosh, so many men are

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Speaker 5: so bad at being nurtured by or nurturing other men,

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Speaker 5: and so that just makes me happy in a deep

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Speaker 5: place when I when I hear about men who are like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so important to treat your friends just like you,

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Speaker 1: you know, treat your lovers, check on them, tell them

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Speaker 1: you love them, be like intent, you know, kind when

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Speaker 1: you're having arguments and conversations, reach out when there's a disagreement,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of times, you know,

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Speaker 1: in friendships, well will be quick to end a friendship,

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Speaker 1: but we will keep a toxic lover around forever and ever.

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Speaker 5: Yeah we've all done it, And yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you kind of entered into

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Speaker 1: this space? Like, and how did that happen? Like what

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Speaker 1: was the catalyst to all of this and opening up

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Speaker 1: your sluttiness?

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Speaker 5: My interest in BDSM is lifelong. I can remember having

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Speaker 5: kinky fantasies when I was four, but this is a

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Speaker 5: generational thing. I had no role model for anything like that.

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Speaker 5: I thought, well up into my twenties pushing thirty, that

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Speaker 5: I was the only person in the world that wanted

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Speaker 5: to get spanked or spank someone. It was just my

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Speaker 5: little thing. And then when I found out that other

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Speaker 5: people were the same. By then, I was married and

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Speaker 5: had two kids, and we tried to explore that between us,

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Speaker 5: but it just wasn't his thing. And I had discovered

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Speaker 5: that this was not a want, this was a need

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Speaker 5: for me. That kind of sexual explorativeness and the desire

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Speaker 5: for ecstatic experience that's kind of hardwired in me, I think,

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Speaker 5: and a fairly standard suburban marriage was not ever going

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Speaker 5: to meet it. And we didn't have a book like

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Speaker 5: The Ethical Slut that might have taught us how we

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Speaker 5: could have that and have the dear friendship that we

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Speaker 5: had then and still have. We just didn't know how,

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Speaker 5: so we divorced, which was probably honestly the best decision.

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Speaker 5: We remained very good friends. We co raised our kids

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Speaker 5: full physical and legal custody. He's an important person in

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Speaker 5: my life. But we should have stayed friends, I think,

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Speaker 5: is what that boils down to. We should not have

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Speaker 5: tried to be spouses, and once we quit trying to

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Speaker 5: be spouses, we got to be friends again, which was lucky.

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Speaker 1: For some of our listeners that are not joining us

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Speaker 1: on the book club, I'm just wondering if you would

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Speaker 1: be able to share with them what is an ethical slut.

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Speaker 5: An ethical slut is a human being of any gender

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Speaker 5: or orientation who recognizes that sex connection romantic attraction are

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Speaker 5: ways of fulfilling oneself and fulfilling other people. That it

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Speaker 5: doesn't have to be done under the table, it can

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Speaker 5: be done honestly and with full disclosure, and that all

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Speaker 5: these things can be ways of growing and ways of

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Speaker 5: helping the people we love grow. So we are not

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Speaker 5: so much into limiting our possibilities. We sluts. We like

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Speaker 5: to see a little bit of everything that's out there

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Speaker 5: and choose at the time what looks good and what doesn't.

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Speaker 5: But we also recognize that what looks good to us

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Speaker 5: at thirty may not be what we want at forty.

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Speaker 5: What looks good on us on Tuesday may not look

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Speaker 5: good to us on Friday. I mean, it's being open

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Speaker 5: to possibilities, I think is what it boils down to,

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Speaker 5: including sexual possibility.

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Speaker 3: That's so beautiful.

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Speaker 4: I've always been you know, it's strange, like that seems

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Speaker 4: like a basic concept to like have ample possibilities and

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Speaker 4: be open to them and have ample love and express

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Speaker 4: that and like that love.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't you know it could be intimate? Could not.

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Speaker 4: I've had such platonic, great sexual experiences like one night

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Speaker 4: stance and I felt so fulfilled after I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that was great.

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Speaker 4: That was a lovely person, and like I don't have

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Speaker 4: to explore a deep relationship with them later. Like I

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Speaker 4: do have an issue with hoarding people. Erica calls it,

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Speaker 4: and I call it like I like to whole, Like

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Speaker 4: I'm not clingy, I don't really, I'm not needy. But

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Speaker 4: I'll call someone, I'll keep up with them, and I'll

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Speaker 4: them in my life. But like, sometimes it's okay to

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Speaker 4: have a platonic relationship and that that person in that

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Speaker 4: relationship doesn't serve you on a regular or active, you know,

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Speaker 4: regular basis.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely bass Darcy and I like to point out that

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Speaker 5: we've been doing what we do together for going on

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Speaker 5: thirty years now. If we ever tried to live together,

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Speaker 5: we would have to leave that just you know. We

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Speaker 5: will occasionally go to a workshop and stay in a

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Speaker 5: hotel room together for three or four days, and we're

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Speaker 5: ready to be done at the end of that. She

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Speaker 5: has this weird thought that I don't quite understand that

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Speaker 5: you should only spend money you actually have, and I've

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Speaker 5: never quite gotten that. And she also thinks it's important

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Speaker 5: to do the dishes within a day after you get

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Speaker 5: them dirty, and I don't quite get that either. So

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Speaker 5: we're not good models for the traditional monogamy centrist relationship

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Speaker 5: where you live together. What we are is terrific models

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Speaker 5: for different ways of being long term lovers with a person.

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Speaker 3: I think it's so beautiful.

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Speaker 4: I think as women, especially if you're lucky, you'll get

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Speaker 4: the ethel sled in your lifetime. If you're lucky, you'll

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Speaker 4: honor that part in yourself that says it's okay to

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Speaker 4: have these blotonic, you know, experiences and encounters. But so

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Speaker 4: often I feel like women are so riddled with shame,

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Speaker 4: even from a small age, that it literally fucks up

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Speaker 4: your whole shit. It fucks up how you express yourself,

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Speaker 4: it sucks up how you see yourself, and often for

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Speaker 4: some people who are you know, don't ever get to

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Speaker 4: receive the permission that it's okay and it's actually normal.

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Speaker 4: It's like it can really cause severe trauma with if

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Speaker 4: you don't try to remove the shame of it all.

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Speaker 4: Because I've told Rika so many times, like I'm a

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Speaker 4: sexual person and I've tried to be in certain type

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Speaker 4: of monogamous relationships and then I cheat, I fuck it up,

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Speaker 4: or I get shamed and I feel bad about explorative,

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Speaker 4: you know, curious person that I am, and it's taken

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Speaker 4: time to unfold those layers and unlearn those things, so

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Speaker 4: I just I can only imagine how it was for

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Speaker 4: you in a time where it was just so fucking

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Speaker 4: vanilla and so strict, and having these feelings because a

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Speaker 4: lot of times.

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Speaker 3: This is just deeply who the fuck you are, This

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Speaker 3: is who I am.

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Speaker 5: Well, let us not forget that I'm a child with

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Speaker 5: the sixties. It has not always been the way it

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Speaker 5: is now. When I was young and beginning to explore,

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Speaker 5: that was quite honored as a pathway for at least

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Speaker 5: some communities. But what happened to me, and I think

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Speaker 5: what happens to some of us, is I met the

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Speaker 5: guy that I would go on to marry my first husband,

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Speaker 5: and we just sort of defaulted to monogamy because that

356
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Speaker 5: was what you did. We never talked about it, it

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Speaker 5: was just what we did. And then it felt almost

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Speaker 5: like falling into a ripdwann Winkle sleep and waking up

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Speaker 5: ten years later going wait, I don't remember ever saying

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Speaker 5: I wanted this, but this is what I have now.

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Speaker 5: And when I ended that marriage, when we parted, it

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Speaker 5: was just very clear that I was never going to

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Speaker 5: promise monogamy again, and I never have. There have been

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Speaker 5: times that I have been functionally monogamous, but with the

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Speaker 5: understanding the mutual understanding, but if I meet someone that

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Speaker 5: looks appealing, I'm going to go check that out. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: we're going to need to accommodate that. It's been a while,

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Speaker 5: but I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

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Speaker 4: So like, speaking of going down this journey of this

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Speaker 4: monogamous marriage and then you know, having this epiphany and

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Speaker 4: coming out at how old were your kids at that point,

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Speaker 4: how did you like kind of transition them, and how

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Speaker 4: did you transition as a mother? You know, you've had

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Speaker 4: this epiphany and then now honoring yourself, right, because people

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Speaker 4: have epiphanies all the time, but they don't They stay

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Speaker 4: in marriages, they stay doing shit they don't want to do.

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Speaker 4: How did you say, I'm going to make this shift

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Speaker 4: and then how did you present it to your kids?

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Speaker 3: And how did that work out?

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Speaker 5: My kids were at the time, I think twelve and six,

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Speaker 5: and my ex and I told them that we weren't

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Speaker 5: going to live together anymore, and there was kind of

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Speaker 5: a big dark cloud over the household. We actually did

384
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Speaker 5: stay together for a couple of weeks when we were

385
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Speaker 5: looking for other places to live. That was a very

386
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Speaker 5: strange two weeks, but we explained that you know, we

387
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Speaker 5: still both wanted to be part of their lives and

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Speaker 5: we were going to make that happen, and we just

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Speaker 5: felt it was better if we don't live together anymore,

390
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Speaker 5: and so in the beginning, that's what we did. We

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Speaker 5: found an apartment in Sacramento, where we were living at

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Speaker 5: the time, and just switched the kids back and forth.

393
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Speaker 5: In the beginning, they were with me during the weekend,

394
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Speaker 5: with him on weekends, and then when I fell in

395
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Speaker 5: love with a person and with the kink community and

396
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Speaker 5: moved to San Francisco, we switched that because they didn't

397
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Speaker 5: want to change schools, so I became the weekend parent.

398
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Speaker 5: He became the weekday parent, which met meeting every Friday

399
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Speaker 5: and Sunday in a midpoint in Balletje for dinner, which

400
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Speaker 5: in hindsight I think was really great. I'm glad it

401
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 5: worked out that way, although it was a logistical decision

402
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Speaker 5: at the time, but those dinners, when we were sitting

403
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 5: and chatting and trading books that we thought the other

404
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 5: would like and so on, were how we rebuilt our friendship.

405
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Speaker 5: After you know, the difficulty of the marriage counseling and

406
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Speaker 5: the breakup and all of that, it gave us a

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Speaker 5: little intermediate space to begin to figure out who we

408
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 5: were going to be to each other again, and that

409
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Speaker 5: was how we kept on being friends. So that was great.

410
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Speaker 5: Although the commute was a bitch Friday night from Santa Clara,

411
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Speaker 5: where I was working at the time, to Valeo is

412
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Speaker 5: stop and go the whole way, So it just was

413
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Speaker 5: what it was, and I did it. And I went

414
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Speaker 5: through several years there in Sacramento of having a circle

415
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Speaker 5: of fuck buddies, which is a pattern that's really comfortable

416
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Speaker 5: for me. We all knew each other, several of us

417
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 5: were sleeping with several others of us. It was a

418
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 5: pretty free floating tangle of people and it was fun.

419
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Speaker 5: I did not introduce any of them to my kids

420
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Speaker 5: as my lovers. They knew one or two of them

421
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Speaker 5: as my friends, but I felt that I didn't want

422
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Speaker 5: to bring anybody into their lives until I was pretty

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Speaker 5: sure that they would be a long term arrangement. So

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Speaker 5: the first person I introduced to them as my lover

425
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Speaker 5: was Jay, the man that I lived with for thirteen

426
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Speaker 5: years when I moved to the Bay Area, and so

427
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Speaker 5: at that point, yes, I did bring him into their

428
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Speaker 5: lives and then we for a while we had a

429
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Speaker 5: housemate that I was occasional lovers with Tom and he

430
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Speaker 5: met the kids too and was taken into their life

431
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Speaker 5: as part of their family. But my other partners, the

432
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Speaker 5: people I was playing with and having sex with, I

433
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Speaker 5: did not present to my kids. It just felt like

434
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Speaker 5: that would be too confusing to them. Then we got

435
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Speaker 5: into a situation where I was involved with a much

436
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 5: younger guy that i'd met online, and he did sort

437
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Speaker 5: of become part of the household. He was around. I

438
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 5: don't know whether my kids were aware that he was

439
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 5: a lover or not, but we didn't tell them that.

440
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 5: But what happened was he wound up being really close

441
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 5: friends and still is to my younger son, at which

442
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 5: point I said, yeah, Okay, enough of the lover thing.

443
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 5: That feels kind of weird and creepy, so let's not

444
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 5: be that anymore. Let's just be friends. And he was.

445
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 5: He was a loved part of our household for all

446
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 5: the years that we were in the Bay area. And

447
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 5: I just saw him again for the first time a

448
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 5: couple of months ago when I happened to be in Sacramento,

449
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 5: and he's just dear. He's a dear person to me.

450
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 5: And he and Ben talk all the time. They talk

451
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 5: almost daily, so it's still a really important friendship. They

452
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 5: were roommates for a while. So this is what I

453
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 5: was saying about the fluidity of being a slot is

454
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 5: somebody can be your lover and then your friend, and

455
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 5: then your son's best friend, and then your son's roommate

456
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 5: and so on. I suppose, at least in theory, if

457
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 5: we lived close together, we could be lovers again, but

458
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 5: probably not. That feels like history that doesn't want to

459
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 5: be dug back up again. But that kind of fluidity

460
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 5: is what I love.

461
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 1: Was there ever a point where you had to have

462
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: a conversation with your son and say, like, I'm in

463
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: the BDSM community. This is my thing, this is my community,

464
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: These are my people. I know there's obviously a lot

465
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: of I think misconceptions to which I love for you

466
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: to share about your community that you know, one might

467
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: fear sharing with your child.

468
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know how has that benefited you?

469
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 4: And I'm sure your kids are grown now, so like,

470
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 4: how do you think that's made like affected their lives?

471
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 4: And now that they're obviously they have a better understanding

472
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 4: of who you are, and now that they're adults. How

473
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 4: do you think like that's shaped their personalities, their openness

474
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 4: or their or their lack thereof or whatever.

475
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 3: I don't know who they are, so.

476
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know what there's their sexualities

477
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 5: are at all. They keep that private and that's entirely appropriate,

478
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 5: so we don't talk about that. At the time, when

479
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 5: they were still young, my partner then and I made

480
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 5: the decision that it wouldn't have been our choice to

481
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 5: be as closetive to them as we were, But we

482
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 5: were both at that point becoming fairly visible people. We

483
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 5: were on the national speaking circuit, we were giving interviews,

484
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 5: and we both knew from what we've seen happen in

485
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 5: other communities that if people who think BDSM or poly

486
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 5: or whatever are awful, terrible things and they decided to

487
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 5: get you for it, that's the first place they're going

488
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 5: to look at your kids. And we wanted to be

489
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 5: able to stand up in front of a judge if

490
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 5: need be, and say no, we have kept this entirely separate.

491
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 5: Our books are locked up, our things are locked up.

492
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 5: So we did that until they turned eighteen, until the

493
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: first one turned eighteen, and then we had a formal

494
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 5: coming out thing, which it didn't surprise him even a

495
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 5: tiny bit. He knew what outfits he'd seen me leaving

496
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 5: the house in he'd you know, we used to give

497
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 5: a big Christmas pot luck every year, and he'd probably

498
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 5: been overhearing conversations between our friends there. But we maintained

499
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 5: that formal boundary between that part of our life and

500
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 5: my life as a parent until they were of age.

501
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 6: So I finally met someone on the Field. You guys,

502
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 6: oh my god, you did. Yes, I met someone on Field.

503
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 6: If you guys have heard me talk about this app,

504
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 6: it is an alternative lifestyle dating app. I have just

505
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 6: been interested in meeting more open people, people that are

506
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 6: not afraid to just, I don't know, go there with me,

507
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 6: whether it's in conversation, sex exploring, and Field provided that

508
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 6: for me.

509
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 4: It's the largest dating community of progressive humans across the globe,

510
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 4: so you can meet like minded people who are willing

511
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: to explore. That's f e e l dot slash good Moms.

512
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 6: That's right.

513
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 4: You can download Field for free today and support good

514
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 4: Moms when you go to f E e l d

515
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 4: dot com slash good Moms. So you know, I have

516
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: a little bit in New York, right, and we FaceTime

517
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 4: all the time, and FaceTime sex gets old. But I've

518
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: recently got a new toy from Satisfire and it comes

519
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: with this app, the Satisfy or Connect app, and he

520
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: can control my vibrator from his home. So we're like

521
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 4: playing virtually with my vibrator.

522
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 6: What that's amazing because sometimes distance disconnects people. But it

523
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: sounds like with this toy, you guys can stay connected

524
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 6: and he can still please you from afar.

525
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: Yes, it's like floor play from Afar.

526
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: And you know what.

527
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: I've went on their website and the satisfied devices are

528
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: so beautiful. They're using cutting edge technology, they're high quality

529
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: designs and their affordable prices.

530
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 4: And not only that, I couldn't just record his voice

531
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: and it creates a vibration just to the tone of

532
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: his voice and even songs that I like.

533
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 6: So you're fucking his voice basically what I know.

534
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: And right now, the Satisfier is offering our lucky listeners

535
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: thirty percent off any Satisfire when you go to satisfire

536
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 4: dot com and enter GMBC thirty at checkout.

537
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: Again, if you're looking for one of our favorite new devices,

538
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: you guys, you have to try this. Go to sa

539
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: tis f y Er dot com and use promo code

540
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: GMBC thirty for thirty percent off.

541
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: You're welcome.

542
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: You have a chapter in the book about motherhood or parenthood,

543
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: and I read this interesting part and it struck me.

544
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: I think, because you know, Jamila and I we are

545
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: very transparent with our kids, obviously within reason of what's appropriate,

546
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: but we do, you know, I think we a lot

547
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: of things that are I guess would be deemed taboo.

548
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: We like, you know, our kids know that we smoke cannabis.

549
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: We are very upfront about having our kids understand their

550
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: bodies and the proper names for them, and just honestly

551
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: answering questions in an honest way. And so when I

552
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: was reading this chapter, you were talking about how your

553
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: kids did not choose your lifestyle. And therefore, when like

554
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: kids come over, when their friends come over, if you

555
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: have those inappropriate pictures hanging up, or you have, you know,

556
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: I guess, remnants of your lifestyle around your home. It's

557
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: respectful and it should be you know, I guess addressed

558
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: in some capacity to remove them from your home so

559
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: that your kid doesn't have to explain you know, like

560
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: the spank people on the weekends. Yes, for me, I

561
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: thought I was conflicted about that. To be honest, I

562
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: was like, yes, I think it's not Your kid didn't

563
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: choose the lifestyle, you know. Yeah, they get to have

564
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: their boundaries corrected.

565
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 5: And if one of their boundaries is, you know, keep

566
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 5: it on the download when my friends are here, then

567
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 5: you do. That's respectful of their boundaries. I can't see

568
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 5: any other way other to do Otherwise, when they've asked

569
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 5: you to keep it quiet, strikes me as profoundly disrespectful.

570
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 5: I do want to point out that there is a

571
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 5: great deal of difference between the era and which this

572
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 5: was happening to me and the era in which this

573
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 5: is happening to you. All of these alternative lifestyles are

574
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 5: much better understood and less taboo than they were when

575
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 5: I was a young parent. Which is not to say

576
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 5: there isn't still trouble out there, but the chances of

577
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: it turning into a real problem are lower now than

578
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 5: they were then. Of course, on what part of the

579
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 5: country you live in, what your community is, what your

580
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 5: job is, you know, if you were a preschool teacher

581
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 5: or a minister, then coming out might not be a

582
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 5: good idea to your kids or otherwise.

583
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: And I thought about that too, because I was like,

584
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: this was like a different time too, but even still,

585
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: even still now, I mean, there is a lot of

586
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: stigma attached to lifestyles, even as open and things that

587
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: are changing. I do think that, you know, for you know,

588
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: especially Jamila and I would live in Los Angeles and

589
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: then like you could go to New York, if you

590
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: go to Chicago, Atlanta, like those places, you know, there's

591
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: just a community and it's more open. But if you

592
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: go to like these smaller towns, like this is still

593
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: very much you know, hush hush taboo, and like you

594
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: might have to be careful what you have in your home.

595
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: You might have to be careful who comes over and

596
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: your kids go through your shit, because you know, kids

597
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: loved to do that shit.

598
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: I was that kid. I was that kid.

599
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: I was like, what is this.

600
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 5: One of the stories I've been writing. I'm working on

601
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 5: another book, an other memoir called Slut and Sons that

602
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 5: takes place in the period of time when my kids

603
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 5: were still young and I was becoming well known as

604
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 5: an author and speaker and educator. In BDSM in Polly

605
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 5: and how that balance happened back then. And one of

606
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 5: the stories I tell is finding a magazine under my

607
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 5: son's mattress that he had stolen out of my nightstand,

608
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 5: And the reason it was in my nightstand is that

609
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 5: it had a story in it that I had written,

610
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: a smutty story, fortunately published under a pseudonym, but it's

611
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 5: going to happen. They're going to find your stuff. Even

612
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: if you choose not to be out to your kids,

613
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 5: be prepared to answer questions if your secrecy doesn't hold up.

614
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 5: If you come out to your kids to any degree,

615
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 5: they need to know that you're safe. That's going to

616
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 5: be their main concern, that you're not going to get hurt,

617
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 5: that you're not going to get sick. Of course, back

618
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 5: when this was all happening with me, AIDS was still

619
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 5: a huge issue, and so they needed to know I

620
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 5: wasn't doing high risk sex behavior. They needed to know

621
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 5: I wasn't doing high risk kink behavior. That's only fair

622
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 5: if you're dependent on someone, you know what, you want

623
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 5: to know that that someone is taking care of themselves.

624
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: One of the things I know you were talking about,

625
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: as far as like the fluidity that you've had in

626
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: relationships over time, and I often think about obviously, jealousy

627
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: is a really big, you know, issue in relationships and

628
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons why people choose monogamy. And

629
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: even in your book, you have this quote where you say,

630
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: let us point out that monogamy is not a cure

631
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: for jealousy. And I love that quote because I think

632
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: so much of that is based on why people are monogamous,

633
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: because they think that if they are monogamous, then just

634
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: eliminates that feeling of jealousy. And like, I know your mind,

635
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: you're in, you know you're I'm yours, but we all

636
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: know that literally, like monogamy is oftentimes the recipe for jealousy.

637
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 5: I don't think there's any way to escape jealousy. I mean,

638
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 5: if you want to be celibate, then you can escape

639
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 5: sexual jealousy, but you're still going to feel jealous about

640
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 5: other things that people have that you don't. One of

641
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 5: our insights about jealousy when we were working on the

642
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 5: later editions of the book is that there is no

643
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 5: one emotion it's called jealousy. Jealousy is a whole bunch

644
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 5: of different emotions that it can be territorial, it can

645
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: be insecure, it can be fearful, it can be competitive,

646
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 5: And so that's one of the things I think that

647
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 5: makes it so difficult to overcome jealousy is we treat

648
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 5: it as though it were monolithic, and it isn't. It

649
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 5: can be any one of a number of things. And

650
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 5: what my jealousy is might not be your jealousy, And

651
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 5: so you have to tease it apart and get a

652
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 5: better read on what it is you're afraid of or

653
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 5: angry about before you can begin to solve it. Jealousy.

654
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 5: You know, anybody who's raised more than one child knows

655
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 5: that jealousy is something that's pretty well programmed into it.

656
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I was going to ask you that,

657
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 1: do you think that jealousy is innate or it's a

658
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: social construct?

659
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 5: My dogs get jealous I mean if you're petting. If

660
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 5: you're petting one of them, the other one will come

661
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: and try to stick itself between the two of them.

662
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: I think it's pretty much hardwired into not even being

663
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 5: a mammal, into being a sentient being on the face

664
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 5: of the earth. People are going to have something that

665
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 5: you want, and sometimes the answer is to get some

666
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 5: of that for yourself, but sometimes the answer is to

667
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 5: take it away from them. And that's what jealousy looks like,

668
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 5: is somebody else wants something you have, and or somebody

669
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 5: you want something somebody else has, and you want to

670
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 5: take it away from them so that you can have it,

671
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 5: which you know it's not the best way of dealing

672
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 5: with that problem, but it has to be unlearned, and

673
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 5: it has to be unlearned over and over. You never

674
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 5: get so good at polly or at monogamy that you're

675
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 5: not going to get sucker punched. Once in a while,

676
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 5: something's going to happen that you didn't know was going

677
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 5: to be a problem and turns how it is, and

678
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 5: then you have to sit down and talk to yourself

679
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 5: first about what it is you're feeling, and then start

680
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 5: looking for some help, whether it's from the person that's

681
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 5: directly involved or from your friends in not feeling so bad.

682
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 5: There's a lot of self care techniques you can use.

683
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: There's a lot of reassurances you can ask for, there's

684
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 5: all kinds of ways to cope when you share that.

685
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: Maybe some self care tips, Because I feel like jealousy

686
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: is an overarching theme in so many of women's lives,

687
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: especially as it pertains to their relationships with their lovers.

688
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 5: So in terms of just bringing yourself back to ground

689
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 5: zero before you lose your shit and make it into

690
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 5: a big thing. Is what you would use to calm

691
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 5: yourself anytime you are feeling a very strong negative emotion,

692
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 5: If you're really angry, if you're really in deep grief,

693
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 5: what would you do to help. If you're the kind

694
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 5: of person who likes a bubble bath and some fresh flower,

695
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 5: then that's what you do to sort of get all

696
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 5: that adrenaline back down. I like to exercise myself into

697
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: exhaustion when I'm feeling really strong emotion, preferably something constructive,

698
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 5: like going into the messiest, shittiest part of the house

699
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: and throwing stuff around until I can't move anymore, which

700
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 5: is getting less and less appropriate as I get older,

701
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 5: but there it is, is what I do. I need

702
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 5: to try this, Yeah, it works for me. Or go

703
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: to the gym. Go to the gym and lift until

704
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 5: all your muscles are shaking. Yeah. Darcy likes to play

705
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 5: solitaire to calm herself when she's feeling overly stimulated. So

706
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 5: it's just a matter of finding what works for you. Yourself.

707
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 5: Some people like to journal, some people like to draw,

708
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 5: some like to dance. It's just a matter of what

709
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 5: works best with your limbic system to get it back

710
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 5: down to where it needs to be, and then you

711
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 5: can start talking to people about what you need to

712
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 5: not feel so bad.

713
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: My child's father we broke up, and then I started dating.

714
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: And I had been in that relationship, and it was

715
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: a monogamous relationship at least I was monogamous, but he

716
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: was ethically non monogamou unethically non monogamous. But after that,

717
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: because even in that relationship, like it was the same thing,

718
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: like we entered in this relationship and it was just

719
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: monogamous because that was like the only option I thought

720
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: we had. And I always knew that I was interested

721
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: in women. I always knew that I was interested in exploring,

722
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: like you know, I guess three sums or group sex

723
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: elements and just I guess and some just like uninhibited

724
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: love and sex. And so when I ended that relationship,

725
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: I started seeing someone and we were dating under the

726
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: circumstances that he was he knew that he could not

727
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: be monogamous. It was just not physically possible for him.

728
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: And but that he loved me and that we were

729
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: going to date and we were going to be open,

730
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: and so I was like, great, I finally get to

731
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: explore this this space with someone that I care about,

732
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: and so I did, But really I just defaulted back

733
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: to monogamy because it was just something that I was

734
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: so used to doing, and when I love someone, I'm

735
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: very hyper focused on them. So I literally like I

736
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: had to like force myself to like open myself up

737
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: in that way. And the only reason that it happened

738
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: was because one day we were out and he showed

739
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: me his phone and some woman was texting him, and

740
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: I could tell that it was like very emotional, and

741
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: I was like, we hadn't we had not been We

742
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: had been saying we're non monogamous, but we hadn't ever

743
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: really talked about what we were doing. So it came

744
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: as like this, like oh my god, Like oh no,

745
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, Like you love someone else,

746
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: when do you have the time I'm with you all

747
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: the time? Like and we were actually at a museum.

748
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: We're like walking through this like very like fine art

749
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: museum when you showed me this text by accident, and

750
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: I was like okay, and I just remember like.

751
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 2: Okay, Erica, like you have to breathe, because what are

752
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: you gonna do.

753
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: You're not gonna throw a fit because you agreed to

754
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: this shit.

755
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me just.

756
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: I did so much breathing and so much talking to

757
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: myself and like, and then by the end, by the

758
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: time I left that museum, because I had literally just

759
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: had so many conversations with myself about you wanted to

760
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: do this. This is part of the growing pain of

761
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: navigating in a new space. It's fucking uncomfortable at first,

762
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: and it feels foreign, and then you're like do I

763
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: want this because this doesn't this feels not good or

764
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how this feels.

765
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: But I think that's with any space.

766
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: But by the time I left that museum, like I

767
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: was like I almost felt excited in a way because

768
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I need to go do my thing,

769
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: like I just gave myself permission, and also like just

770
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: excited just like that you know, this is a new

771
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: space that I'm in.

772
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: I'm excited to.

773
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: Navigate through all of the feelings and it doesn't have

774
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: to be this like scary negative thing. I knew that

775
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: he didn't love me any less, even though there was

776
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: a process of me like, oh, this is bitch, Who

777
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: the fuck is she?

778
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: What does she looks like? She looks like?

779
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: Women always want to know, We always want to know

780
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: what she looks like.

781
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: Must know what she looks like.

782
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: We can talk shit, like it's just this comparison thing.

783
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: But now I'm in a space and this was like

784
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: two and a half years ago where I feel very

785
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: little jealousy. Like in relationships, there's like a and it

786
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: feels so it really feels so free, Like there's moments

787
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: where I catch myself but I do not dwell I'm

788
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: not a dweller, and like it's just feels so liberating,

789
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: whether you are in a monogamous relationship or whatever relationship

790
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: you are, to like really really focus on the jealousy

791
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: part because A, it ain't cute. B it's stressful, it's draining.

792
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: And see it's.

793
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: Just I just feel like especially with sex, like I think,

794
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: like for me personally, like I would not end a

795
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: relationship because my partner had sex with someone else, especially

796
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: if like we were especially unless that would I don't

797
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: even think if that was the agreement, I would do that,

798
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: I think because sex is important. But like my emotional

799
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: bond and like my trust is not wrapped up all

800
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: in sex.

801
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 4: I mean, I understand that I've had sex that's not

802
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 4: emotionally driven. I understand that, but you know, it's interesting.

803
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: I have an interesting relationship with jealousy. As we're having

804
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 4: this conversation, it's like reminding me like growing up my parents,

805
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 4: my mom was crazy jealous, crazy jealous, like constantly asking

806
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 4: my dad where he was going, constantly like a woman would.

807
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: Pass by and say, hi, Like what was that bitch?

808
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 5: It must be a really painful way to live.

809
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 3: And I thought that and I saw that. I said, God,

810
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: that's painful.

811
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: And I also saw my dad do stupid shit and

812
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 4: like be neglectful and be and have outside relationships.

813
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: I saw how it affected her.

814
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 4: But it made me say, for one a, I felt

815
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: and I understand, like if you haven't developed this part

816
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: of yourself and this is like it made me.

817
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: I felt like it was weak.

818
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 4: I felt like it was weak because you are essentially

819
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 4: putting yourself in this position with this person that is

820
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 4: obviously an unethical slut, but you were it, doesn't you know?

821
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 4: And obviously that adds to someone's insecurity. That adds to

822
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 4: someone's jealousy. So when I as I got older and

823
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 4: I experienced jealousy, it irritated me to feel that way,

824
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 4: you know, like I don't want to feel this way.

825
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 4: Like honestly, it was between like not wanting to have

826
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: attachments to people. But as I've evolved and had these

827
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 4: conversations when I do care about people and things come

828
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: up and I'm like, I'm able to be like how

829
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: much do I really care?

830
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 3: Do I still love them?

831
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

832
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: Do they still love me? Probably?

833
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 4: And also like I don't have a fear of Like

834
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 4: I don't have a fear of losing someone, like I'm

835
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 4: a cool I'm cool. You're lucky to have me, And

836
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 4: like if I don't want to be in fear of

837
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 4: someone stealing my person. And you know, honestly, I'm like

838
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: working through a lot of like childhood trauma right now,

839
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 4: and I'm my parents are still this way, you guys,

840
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 4: and nothing has changed. They're still married, there's still the

841
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 4: same people, And it makes me really sad. It makes

842
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 4: me sad that like you didn't have opportunity to have

843
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 4: the ethical slut to release those feelings, like I just like,

844
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 4: how much of your life did you waste with these emotions.

845
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: It's so unhealthy.

846
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 5: My parents' marriage ended over serial infidelity, and I wonder

847
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 5: sometimes if I had written this book in time for them,

848
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 5: whether they'd still be together, and what that might look like.

849
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: I think we need to give the book to her parents.

850
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 4: I used to think that my behavior was a rebellion

851
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 4: to the way I grew up.

852
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 3: I'm like, am I doing this too?

853
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 4: As a like a reactive of the things that I've witnessed.

854
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 5: You know, there's a term in the poly community. It's

855
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 5: called compersion. That is the feeling of being happy to

856
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 5: see your partner happy with someone else, and a lot

857
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 5: of educators define it as the opposite of jealousy, but

858
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 5: I don't think it is. I think it is entirely

859
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 5: possible to feel both jealousy and compersion at the same time,

860
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 5: where part of you is happy to see your partner

861
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 5: having a great time with someone else, and part of

862
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 5: you is feeling a little small and jealous about the

863
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 5: whole that.

864
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: Happened to me at the sex club with you with me,

865
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: we share that story on our Patreon guys, so if

866
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: you want to hear about our experience at the sex

867
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: club in Brooklyn, you should because.

868
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 5: I think I spoke there a couple of years back,

869
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 5: and I know the place you're talking about that I

870
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 5: can't wait to go back. Nice folks, Nice folks. I

871
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 5: had a very good time there.

872
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 1: So about I just have a question about monogamy because

873
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: we just we recently did at our book club, we

874
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: did a poll and we asked our you know, the

875
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: people that are in the club, like what kind of

876
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,959
Speaker 1: relationship structure are they currently interested in.

877
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 2: Or are in?

878
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 1: And most of them, you know, said monogamy. Some of them,

879
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: I think it was like six percent said poly a

880
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: few said monogamish, but overall it was monogamy, which kind

881
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: of surprised me, only because, you know, because I don't know,

882
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: I guess I assumed that someone who would pick up

883
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: this book is it's because they are either interested in

884
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: other alternative lifestyle or monogam mischi, or they are already

885
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: you know, tapped into that.

886
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: What are your views on monogamy?

887
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: I know there's a chapter in here where you praise monogamy,

888
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: and for me, sometimes I feel like monogamy can almost

889
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: be can be kind of like a kink in some capacity.

890
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 5: Like, yes, it can. My colleague Tristan Tarmino calls it

891
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 5: radical monogamy, and I think that that's kind of cool.

892
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 5: I like the idea. I have nothing against monogamy as

893
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 5: long as it's freely chosen. If someone takes a look

894
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 5: at all the options there are on the buffet and says,

895
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 5: you know, this is the one that looks good to me,

896
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 5: and nothing against these other ones. But at this point

897
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 5: in my life, I want to be monogamous. Go I'm

898
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 5: all for it. I think it can be a great relationship.

899
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 5: It isn't for me, But for example, my first husband,

900
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 5: I think is just deep down in his hardwiring, he's

901
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 5: a monogamous guy, and he's read my books. I mean,

902
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: he knows there are other options, but that's not what

903
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 5: he wants. So as long as everybody is choosing it

904
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 5: freely and with awareness of the other options, I think

905
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 5: it can be a really good way to go. Particularly

906
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 5: if you have a lot of other commitments in your

907
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 5: life to work or making art or the things you do.

908
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 5: It may not be that you want to put the

909
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 5: amount of energy and effort into maintaining multiple relationships that

910
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 5: could otherwise happen. So it's just an issue of what's

911
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 5: important to you.

912
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: At the time as I journeying in my relationships and

913
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 1: understanding what I want out of a partner, I've been

914
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: more leading into monogamish whereas before I was open, which

915
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: I find I'm like, is this my life going to

916
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: be like this all the time? Like I don't want

917
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: say flip flopping, but like it will evolve.

918
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: You'll feel differently at different times, I know, differently with

919
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 4: different partners.

920
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 3: With you, this is what I feel like with you.

921
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 4: I feel like we have a space to be more

922
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 4: open because this is just who we are.

923
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 3: I think it kind of will change and shift how

924
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: way you feel.

925
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 5: I think if we all lived in a world where

926
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 5: we all had access to all the dishes on the buffet,

927
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 5: what would happen in many cases is we would want

928
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 5: to slut around when we were young and exploring, And

929
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 5: then during our years of being parents, we might want

930
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 5: to be monogamous, because God knows, an active parent has

931
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 5: enough on their plate without trying to maintain multiple relationships.

932
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 5: And then when we get older and more established in

933
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 5: our careers and the kids aren't demanding constant attention, we

934
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 5: might want to be polly again or open or monogamoush

935
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 5: or whatever, and then going on into old age, some

936
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 5: of us might choose to be celibate. It's about maintaining

937
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 5: the possibilities and not judging them except as to how

938
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 5: useful they are to you at the time.

939
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 2: Amen.

940
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: Amen, Yeah, that makes sense to me.

941
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 4: I feel like the more I talk to my grandma

942
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 4: and she's the disappointment she has in God for making

943
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 4: her work and men not work, I'll probably be more

944
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 4: of a lesbian again.

945
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 5: I would be pissed off too if I were her.

946
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 5: That's an excellent thing to be on it.

947
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 4: She was like, you know, I just want to let

948
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 4: you know God really he played an evil trick on women.

949
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 4: I'm like, what's going on? She's like, ice work, fine,

950
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 4: everything's fine. None of these men can do it.

951
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 5: If I had another lifetime to be a writer and educator,

952
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 5: I would be looking at in particular heterosexual sis he

953
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 5: men and what a raw deal they've been dealt, and

954
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 5: how they need what they need to get their ship

955
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 5: back together, because I think they're often pretty broken these days,

956
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 5: and I would want to help fix them if I

957
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 5: could start all over again, do something differently.

958
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny.

959
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: Jamila said something we recently are like, we should do

960
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: something for the men or some shit, and I was like,

961
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm not working for these men, like I'm.

962
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 3: But I get it.

963
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 4: But I said, oh, what are we going to do

964
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 4: when all the women are healed and ready and open

965
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 4: and smart and the men are there's no one. There's

966
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 4: gonna be a community of lesbian I know.

967
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: I know, you're totally right.

968
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: It just felt like, oh my god, this is such

969
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: a daunting task. Must we fix everything? Yeah?

970
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: We have fun.

971
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 5: I had a theory when Queer Eye for the Straight

972
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 5: Guy was first on the air and a huge hit

973
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 5: that what was drawing us to it was the opportunity

974
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 5: to see men taking care of each other and not

975
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 5: depending on women to do it. That to me was

976
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 5: really healing to watch. Oh here's a great story I

977
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 5: was told by a gay man at an event where

978
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 5: I was speaking. He said, I have the cure for jealousy.

979
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 5: And I said, okay, I mean, you know, tell me,

980
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 5: I'll make a million dollars. He said, no, here's the

981
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 5: cure for jealousy. My boyfriend had another boyfriend who I

982
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 5: really didn't much like, and the guy showed up at

983
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 5: our house one day when my boyfriend wasn't home, and

984
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 5: when I said so, he said, would it be okay

985
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 5: if i'd take a nap in your spare room because

986
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 5: I'm exhausted and I really need to sleep for a while.

987
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 5: And I couldn't think of a reason say no, so

988
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 5: I said sure and showed him to the spare room.

989
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 5: And then I thought, you know, I'm kind of tired too,

990
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 5: And I got on the bed and took a nap

991
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 5: with him, and seeing him there sleeping and totally open

992
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 5: and totally vulnerable, I couldn't dislike him anymore. I didn't

993
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 5: feel jealous anymore, and I thought that was the sweetest story.

994
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 5: So sweet.

995
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: You see, to watch your lover's lover sleep.

996
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 4: It's kind of like a mother and her child, Like

997
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 4: you know when you look at your child, and like

998
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 4: you just just love you so much, innocent, not talking.

999
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: Maybe if we saw more people sleep, there'd be more

1000
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,479
Speaker 1: compassion in the world, and maybe maybe we need to just.

1001
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: We need we need sleep camps.

1002
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 5: There's an exercise in Buddhism that's to imagine someone awful

1003
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 5: as a tiny child that you're taking care of and

1004
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 5: cradling in your arms. And there is something about seeing

1005
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 5: someone that pure and vulnerable that it's hard to be mad.

1006
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true.

1007
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: I've seen some of the most not nice people sleep

1008
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: and been like, wow, you were a child one right,

1009
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: right right? What happened?

1010
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 5: That is a big question.

1011
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: That's my problem. What happened? How can I help?

1012
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 4: Let me open up your mind, let me be, let

1013
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 4: me fix you, let me heal you.

1014
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 3: You deserve a lo There's so much love to be given.

1015
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the trap, isn't it? Sixty six years old?

1016
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 4: Why do you draw the line for love? I love you,

1017
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 4: but I have boundaries. I can't figure I can't do

1018
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 4: it all well.

1019
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: And actually, that's a good question before we go, how

1020
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: do you draw the line of boundaries and having being

1021
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: an ethical splat that like kind of like blurs boundaries

1022
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: and like kind of leaves you open, Like how do

1023
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: you actually? Because I do think that there's in some capacity,

1024
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: maybe you disagree. I think people do need boundaries, you know, Like, no, not.

1025
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 5: Having boundaries is a really uncomfortable and dysfunctional way to live.

1026
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 5: I think the boundary that works for me is it

1027
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 5: has to do with knowing what's mine to control and

1028
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 5: what is not. And I don't get to control who

1029
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 5: you're sleeping with. That's you. I do get to control

1030
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 5: what you bring home to me, And if you come

1031
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 5: home to me angry because of something that happened with them,

1032
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 5: then I need to set a boundary. This is not

1033
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 5: my job to fix. If you read my memoirs, my

1034
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 5: personal writing, you'll see that I come back again and

1035
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 5: again to the idea of skin as a boundary and

1036
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 5: knowing that what's inside my skin is mine and I

1037
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 5: have to take care of it, and what's outside my

1038
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 5: skin it's not my job. And I'm speaking here as

1039
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 5: someone who did try to fix an awful lot of

1040
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 5: people in my day and who got mostly through it

1041
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 5: in therapy, and I just keep coming back to that

1042
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 5: this is not mine to control, This is not mine

1043
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 5: to fix. What I get to control is the things

1044
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 5: that affect me directly.

1045
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that.

1046
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 3: I love that I do. I'm going to use that.

1047
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to adopt that mantra.

1048
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 5: Yes, maybe that was the affirmation you asked me, how

1049
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 5: about it?

1050
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 4: Maybe I need to like save some time right now. Okay,

1051
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 4: So we have a segment on our show that we

1052
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 4: call hories. It's short for horror stories. It's like the

1053
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 4: most slutty sluty thing fun It could either be like

1054
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 4: highly horrific or funny, or just like a wonderfully slutty,

1055
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 4: top notch slut experience. Story if you have any I

1056
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 4: think that you do.

1057
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: Oh who stories.

1058
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 5: Actually, the thought that came to my mind as soon

1059
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 5: as you said that was a wonderful scene that I

1060
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 5: was part of at a kink conference in Canada. And

1061
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 5: the idea of the scene was to enable a very

1062
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 5: large husband to fist his very tiny wife for the

1063
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 5: first time. And so a bunch of us women got

1064
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 5: together in the room there with them, and we held

1065
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 5: our hands up against each other to see who had

1066
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 5: the smallest hands. I have very large hands, So I

1067
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 5: went last, and each of us in turn fisted her

1068
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 5: and while all the rest of us were holding her

1069
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 5: and caring for her and being sort of handmaidens, until

1070
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 5: I went last because big hand. And then she was

1071
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 5: open and turned on and happy enough that he was

1072
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 5: able to slide his hand in and fist her for

1073
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 5: the first time. And it was just miraculous. It was

1074
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 5: so loving, the energy was so sweet that we were

1075
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 5: helping this couple make something happen that they couldn't make

1076
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 5: happen on their own about it. It was just.

1077
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: Talk about a village.

1078
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 5: Yes, it really was a village.

1079
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: And I love how like deeply emotional like that. It

1080
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: makes you like that you were able to facilitate that

1081
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: for a couple.

1082
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 5: That's so beautiful. Yeah, it's one of my scenes that

1083
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 5: I still get teary about talking years later, because it

1084
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 5: really was moving and it was I had this profound

1085
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 5: moment of oh my god, I love my life. Other

1086
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 5: people don't get to do that.

1087
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: I often feel that way too, even in this space

1088
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 1: and being able to interview you know, someone like you

1089
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: and you know just I'm just so I'm grateful for

1090
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: you coming on the show.

1091
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 2: Thank you so so much.

1092
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 3: Thank you being open to doing this and holding space

1093
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: for us.

1094
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,959
Speaker 1: Thank you for writing this incredible book.

1095
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: You guys, thank you.

1096
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 4: Tell Dossie we said thank you too. This is it

1097
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 4: helped us tremendously.

1098
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 5: Yes, Dossi had major surgery on her spine yesterday. I'm

1099
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 5: heading down there in a week or so to help

1100
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 5: with her recovery. Then I will be sure to communicate

1101
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 5: your best wishes to her. And I also want to

1102
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 5: tell you tell your listeners that I am blogging the

1103
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 5: book in progress at www dot slutinsuns dot com. So

1104
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 5: if they want to hear about a lifetime of a

1105
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 5: good mom making bad choices, there it is.

1106
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 4: Heay.

1107
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you guys, make sure you pick up

1108
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: The Ethical Slut. This is such an important book for

1109
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: men to buy, for your husbands, your boyfriends, you know,

1110
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: black us, black and brown girls.

1111
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 2: We need to read this shit.

1112
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like a lot of undoing that

1113
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: we have to do around sexuality, I think even more

1114
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: so in some ways, a lot of ways. So make

1115
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: sure you get this book. If you haven't joined our

1116
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: book club, please please join. We're reading Dossie and Janet's

1117
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: book all through September and we're doing meetups which are

1118
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: getting We've had one so far and it was so wonderful.

1119
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: Where can we so they can find you on that

1120
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: specific website?

1121
00:54:58,840 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: Is that where we should?

1122
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yes, that would be the best place to find

1123
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 5: me right now. I do have an author's site, but

1124
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 5: it's kind of in transition. So yes, you can find

1125
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 5: me on slutinsuns dot.

1126
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 3: Com spluttinsuns dot com.

1127
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 4: I'll be joining you on this journey because I'm excited

1128
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 4: to hear all about it.

1129
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: Okay, cool love, Love to see you there and you

1130
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: guys can find us. That's Good Moms Underscore Bad Choices

1131
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram. On Twitter, we are good Mom Underscore Bad Girl.

1132
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: Make sure you rate and review this episode on Apple Podcasts.

1133
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: Please please do that right now. Please, And if you

1134
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: do want to hear about our sex club story and

1135
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: so many other roll ups that we have over there.

1136
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: We have a segment on our Patreon called the roll

1137
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: Up where me and Mila roll up our weed and

1138
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 1: we talk shit and we say a lot of stuff

1139
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: we don't say on the podcast, So make sure you

1140
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: go check that out. That's patreon dot com, backslash, Good Moms.

1141
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 2: Bad Choices and we'll see you next week.

1142
00:55:52,920 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 4: Bye bye, Ella solo record. Yeah The Lastest Day Asked

1143
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,919
Speaker 4: Gomo by Lamoiselle La the Lazula