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Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. We invite you to enjoy
Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now,
Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Santra channaplay.
Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
Speaker 1: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
Speaker 1: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
Speaker 1: to Coast AM employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors
Speaker 1: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
Speaker 1: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been
Speaker 1: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
Speaker 1: Each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know that
Speaker 1: our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so will we.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. I had an extraordinary
Speaker 1: opportunity this past week. I got to interview the great
Speaker 1: doctor Raymond Moody and co author Paul Perry on a
Speaker 1: brand new book, and depending on when you're listening, it
Speaker 1: may already be out. The book is titled Proof of
Speaker 1: Life After Life, Seven Reasons to Believe there is an Afterlife.
Speaker 1: The entire recording is well over an hour, so if
Speaker 1: you would like to watch the full video interview, just
Speaker 1: go to We Don't Die dot com and click on
Speaker 1: the radio show page. Today, I want to include some
Speaker 1: of the clips from that magnificent convertation and read to
Speaker 1: you a little bit about what's in the book. They
Speaker 1: were kind enough to send me a copy before it
Speaker 1: gets out to the public. This is one of those
Speaker 1: interviews that I actually learned some new things about life
Speaker 1: after death, and I think you will too. So let
Speaker 1: me tell you about the guys you are going to
Speaker 1: hear from. First of all, doctor Raymond Moody and Paul
Speaker 1: Perry are both longtime friends, both New York Times bestselling
Speaker 1: authors with fifty years of investigating life after death. Doctor
Speaker 1: Raymond Moody is the leading authority on the near death experience,
Speaker 1: a phrase he coined back in the late seventies. His
Speaker 1: groundbreaking work Life After Life completely changed the way we
Speaker 1: viewed death and dying and has sold more than thirteen
Speaker 1: million copies. Paul Perry is the co author of five
Speaker 1: New York Times Best line including The Light Beyond with
Speaker 1: Doctor Moody, Saved by the Light with Daniel Brinkley, and
Speaker 1: Evidence of the Afterlife with doctor Jeffrey Long. He has
Speaker 1: co written a dozen books on near death experiences, four
Speaker 1: of them with doctor Moody, and directed two popular documentary
Speaker 1: films on the subject. You can visit doctor Moody's website
Speaker 1: at Life Afterlife dot com, and you can see all
Speaker 1: that Paul Perry has done at Paul Perryproductions dot com.
Speaker 1: So today we'll be talking about their book Proof of
Speaker 1: Life after Life, Seven Reasons to Believe there is an Afterlife.
Speaker 1: I first asked these two gentlemen how they met each other.
Speaker 3: Hi, there, Helle, Thank you so much for this invitation.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited not just to share you, but it's
Speaker 1: two for the price of one today, two wonderful gentlemen
Speaker 1: and me lucky am I? How did you two first meet?
Speaker 1: If I can ask that question?
Speaker 4: Oh, that was interesting. Raymond was working on a book
Speaker 4: at the time. Was a working title was Light Beyond.
Speaker 4: That's what it ended up being called. And I was
Speaker 4: editing a major health magazine in New York called American Health.
Speaker 4: And my agent took me out to lunch one day
Speaker 4: and he said, would you mind giving doctor Raymond Moody
Speaker 4: a hand and writing a book? And I said, I
Speaker 4: don't even know who doctor Moody is. And he said, really,
Speaker 4: he named the near death experience and defined it. And
Speaker 4: I said, I don't know what a near death experience is.
Speaker 4: And so nat our agent says, is an abrupt guy.
Speaker 4: And he says, I can't believe it. You're editing a
Speaker 4: major health magazine. You're not smart enough to know what
Speaker 4: a near death experience is. You need to go meet
Speaker 4: Raymond Moody and study this whole field. And so that's
Speaker 4: what I did. I went to Atlanta. Raymond was living
Speaker 4: in Carrollton at the time, Georgia, and we talked about
Speaker 4: the book The Light Beyond. We hit it off right away,
Speaker 4: and one thing leads to another, and since now we've
Speaker 4: written this is our sixth book together. Proof of Life
Speaker 4: After Life is our sixth book. And one book always
Speaker 4: leads to a question, and the question that needs to
Speaker 4: be answered. And so that's what we do. We'll write
Speaker 4: a book and all of a sudden, they'll be with
Speaker 4: the light beyond. It was, see, there's nothing in this
Speaker 4: book about children and near death experiences. And Raymond said, well,
Speaker 4: you know, there's not much research being done on it.
Speaker 4: But he directed me to Melvin Morris and Seattle and
Speaker 4: I went to see Melvin and we wrote. We wrote
Speaker 4: four books on children and Near death Experiences and other
Speaker 4: aspects of the near death experience, and three of those
Speaker 4: were New York Times bestsellers. And then it would go
Speaker 4: on and on. We'd have question after question, book after book,
Speaker 4: and that's what we did from that point to now
Speaker 4: is answer these questions.
Speaker 1: Incredible, doctor Moody, you remember when you met Paul.
Speaker 3: I certainly do. And you know, Paul and I think
Speaker 3: we have a great, you know, working team here because
Speaker 3: I just tell you the truth. All the people who
Speaker 3: know me very well will tell you it's true. But
Speaker 3: in fact, I am such a bore and the way
Speaker 3: I think, oh yes, all right, listen. I was a
Speaker 3: professor of philosophy and logic, and my lifelong thing since
Speaker 3: the age of eighteen is ancient Greek philosophy. Well, there's
Speaker 3: a bestseller for you, right. So what I'm getting at
Speaker 3: is This is not most people's fair, but it's how
Speaker 3: I got interested in this from Plato studied this, and
Speaker 3: the early Greek philosophers knew about these things. That's how
Speaker 3: I found about it. Long But you know, a philosopher
Speaker 3: is going to be the right person to present some
Speaker 3: of this information to the average person, I think, and
Speaker 3: so I tend to talk in abstractions and put the
Speaker 3: information in that context. Whereas Paul could say, hey, just
Speaker 3: a minute here, professor, you know that doesn't make any
Speaker 3: sense to what And together we come up with the
Speaker 3: way I think to present information that is sometimes very
Speaker 3: you know, complex, hopefully in a way that people will't
Speaker 3: relate to it and benefit from it.
Speaker 4: From there, Raymond is one of the probably the most
Speaker 4: exciting and interesting person I know, and for reasons just
Speaker 4: stated he knows everything.
Speaker 3: Oh no, but I know enough to know I don't
Speaker 3: know hardly any of that is the right I am.
Speaker 4: You know, he knows nothing about the Yankees or the
Speaker 4: LA Dodgers.
Speaker 3: No. I do know about the professional wrestling, though that's true.
Speaker 4: That's another subject.
Speaker 1: Though we need to follow our passions, right. We can't
Speaker 1: talk about the ass but.
Speaker 3: This topic that you're interested in Sandra and Paul and
Speaker 3: I are interested in It's been my experience beginning at
Speaker 3: age eighteen, actually that when people reach a certain age,
Speaker 3: and especially so I think that people have been so
Speaker 3: successful that they've spent their lifetime focusing on their business
Speaker 3: or the businesy work, you know, just focusing on that
Speaker 3: side of life. When they reach a certain age, say fifties, sixties, seventies,
Speaker 3: they begin to wake up to this question of life
Speaker 3: after death, which has been put aside or thought of
Speaker 3: as trivial or you know, it doesn't have or and
Speaker 3: then they just automatically wake up to it. By the way,
Speaker 3: that reason I found out about that at age eighteen
Speaker 3: was I read it at my hero Plato, my first
Speaker 3: philosophy class in September of sixty two. Reading the first
Speaker 3: few pages of Plato's Republic, I decided then there to
Speaker 3: shift from astronomy, which is why I went there to
Speaker 3: study immediately to philosophy. Because this why is Plato's work
Speaker 3: still in print at any store twenty three hundred years
Speaker 3: People shouldn't ask themselves that well, number one, because it
Speaker 3: is amazing, terrific stuff, and this Republic is about, in
Speaker 3: the end, a near death experience. It starts with this
Speaker 3: old guy who's been very successful in life, he says,
Speaker 3: and Socrates is then about twenty meets the old guy says,
Speaker 3: you know, Kevalos, what's it like from your point of view? Oh,
Speaker 3: Kevlo says, I've been very successful when my business made
Speaker 3: a lot of money. I've spent all time on my business,
Speaker 3: and now here I am. I saw all those stories
Speaker 3: I heard about about the afterlife when I was a kid,
Speaker 3: coming back in these people developed a sense of urgency.
Speaker 3: Then in a later Plato dialogue I read that same
Speaker 3: semester he talked about the importance of this question of
Speaker 3: life after death. So that's how I got into this,
Speaker 3: and it's it came from Greek philosophy, where it was
Speaker 3: a big point of study. And yet of course all
Speaker 3: the other things too that people are concerned about. Because
Speaker 3: after I got my PhD in philosophy, I was a
Speaker 3: philosophy professor. I went into psychiatry, with my specific interest
Speaker 3: in it being why people kill people from a law
Speaker 3: enforcement family, wrote in a cop card. When I was
Speaker 3: a kid, I mean my brother a shaf, my two uncles, Chieficale,
Speaker 3: two cousins. I mean my dad worked for the DEA
Speaker 3: as a surgeon for this drug stuff, and you see
Speaker 3: how it is, you know. So to me, this big question,
Speaker 3: which I studied from early on is why in the
Speaker 3: world would somebody kill somebody? So I studied that in psychiatry,
Speaker 3: and that worked in a unit for the criminally in
Speaker 3: saying it was full of these people that you read
Speaker 3: about in the National Enquirer was my daily work. And
Speaker 3: so through all of this I have developed I think
Speaker 3: a great piece in one respect with respect to the
Speaker 3: question of life after death, and not through a logical
Speaker 3: process exactly, because there's great logical difficulties in trying to
Speaker 3: prove an after life, but thinking it through myself, I
Speaker 3: just give up, you know. To me it looks like, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a life after death, as counterintuitive is it still
Speaker 3: seems to me, and having no template from it, but
Speaker 3: always debating with myself about it. It's this thing about
Speaker 3: oxygen deprivation to the brain. I'm sorry, that's beloney, But
Speaker 3: people have the same experience identically who are not themselves
Speaker 3: ill or injured are going through our resuscitation, but rather
Speaker 3: who are there in the presence of somebody who is dying.
Speaker 1: This is a good time to take our break and
Speaker 1: then we'll get back. What doctor Moody's starting to talk
Speaker 1: about is the shared death experience. I wanted to play
Speaker 1: all that to so you've got a little flavor for
Speaker 1: who these gentlemen are. They've been at this a long time,
Speaker 1: So let's go to the break and be back. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we're listening
Speaker 1: to Paul Perry and the world famous doctor Raymond Moody
Speaker 1: talking about their brand new book, Proof of Life After Life,
Speaker 1: Seven Reasons to Believe there is an afterlife, and I'll
Speaker 1: give you a little sneak preview. Their reasons are all
Speaker 1: in the realm of this shared death experience. So let's
Speaker 1: listen to doctor Moody talk about the shared death experience.
Speaker 3: It's a very frequent occurrence that people standing around say
Speaker 3: things like, oh, as grandma was dying, I myself, I
Speaker 3: lift it out of my body. I started going towards
Speaker 3: this light with my grandma, where people say, as Grandma
Speaker 3: was dying, apparitions of the dying person's loved ones come
Speaker 3: in the room, people see that, the whole room fills
Speaker 3: with light. And most strikingly to me that in many
Speaker 3: cases I've studied over the years, the by then at
Speaker 3: the death of someone else that as the person's dying
Speaker 3: will themselves empathically co participate in the dying life review
Speaker 3: of the person there. And this to me is startling
Speaker 3: information and it makes me trying to come up with
Speaker 3: some reason that I could get myself recused from my
Speaker 3: life review, because you know, the idea of his self
Speaker 3: is enough to scare to worry about. But you know,
Speaker 3: the idea of having a spectator there these people past
Speaker 3: the popcorn. But it happens. It happens not just to
Speaker 3: people as I would have thought, who are intimate and
Speaker 3: know the person well. But in one case, a medical
Speaker 3: doctors don't of sin is dying patients life review, who
Speaker 3: had never even laid his eyes on the patient force
Speaker 3: just called to the er.
Speaker 4: Two.
Speaker 3: So what I'm talking about is it something odd is
Speaker 3: going on there that does not fit into the view
Speaker 3: of reality that we're pretty much forced intent, you know,
Speaker 3: in everyday life. So but the older you get the
Speaker 3: more you're a medical to explore these things. I noticed
Speaker 3: that the older I get, the more of my friends
Speaker 3: through my agent, had some kind of experience in their life,
Speaker 3: which is like stepping over into some other realm of existence.
Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends who are medical doctors
Speaker 3: whose medical judgment I would trust one hundred percent if
Speaker 3: something happened to me. And those same friends of mine
Speaker 3: tell me that, yeah, they had this near death experience
Speaker 3: and not only was it real, but it was more
Speaker 3: real than this ordinary reality. And you know the incredible
Speaker 3: things that happen if you know the story probably of
Speaker 3: Anthony Chikori and PhD in physiology in the professor of
Speaker 3: orthopedic surgery at NYU, who had a profound death experience
Speaker 3: and was struck in that had by a bolt of lightning,
Speaker 3: had a cardiac rest and was it a family reunion,
Speaker 3: was able to look all in, saw his relatives who
Speaker 3: were there at the reunion at the resort center, even
Speaker 3: though he was apparently dead, and you know, Anthony said,
Speaker 3: you know, this is more real. Anthony, who had never
Speaker 3: had any interest in music, started getting fascinated by the piano,
Speaker 3: started having dreams in which he was playing a piano
Speaker 3: or concert stage playing the same music, learned how to
Speaker 3: play the piano and transcribe this music, and is now,
Speaker 3: in addition to being a renowned orthopedic surgeon, as a
Speaker 3: famed concert pianist too. I mean, see, things like that
Speaker 3: don't make any sense if this world is as we
Speaker 3: think by common sense that it is constituted. So see,
Speaker 3: And I could go on with a you know, a
Speaker 3: dozen other physicians that same story, but I give up.
Speaker 3: I can't figure out how I could reconcile the fact
Speaker 3: that I would put my help myself in these dogs hands,
Speaker 3: you know, in a life or death situation, with the
Speaker 3: fact that they all tell me that this thing is
Speaker 3: more real than any reality that I've experienced.
Speaker 1: I think, as human beings were hardwired not to believe.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's to be tied in with the game of life.
Speaker 1: I'm not hearing you though. I've experienced miracles myself, but
Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning thinking is this all real?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think that everybody's an experienced some kind of a
Speaker 4: miracle and they don't recognize it or they don't want
Speaker 4: to think about it. And when you start to mention,
Speaker 4: for instance, with shared death experiences, which is what this
Speaker 4: book is about. If you start to talk to people
Speaker 4: about what you're working on, they almost everybody will say, well,
Speaker 4: I've had an experience like that, and I didn't talk
Speaker 4: about it because I thought people would think I was wacky,
Speaker 4: or I just never thought it was an appropriate conversation.
Speaker 4: For whatever reason, they don't like to bring it up.
Speaker 4: Once you bring it up, that you start to open
Speaker 4: up the flower, as it were, and people start to
Speaker 4: deliver information that you previously didn't know was out there.
Speaker 4: That's how it was with near death experiences, and this
Speaker 4: book is vastly different from near death experiences, which your
Speaker 4: experiences that take place with the people who are at
Speaker 4: the best essentially at the bedside of someone has died,
Speaker 4: who's dying, and they share their death experience.
Speaker 3: I saw this old manor guy who was in his eighties,
Speaker 3: who was a GP for all of his career, and
Speaker 3: he was telling me, and this was that the Council
Speaker 3: Grove Consciousness seminar that was put on by the Miniature Foundation,
Speaker 3: and he was saying that he had this patient he
Speaker 3: had had a long time. She was elderly and she
Speaker 3: had hypertension and she had what we call corbo vine,
Speaker 3: which is a big round art and it's caused by
Speaker 3: if the high blood pressure over lumber. Design sometimes just
Speaker 3: comes out and looks kind of round from pressure. Is
Speaker 3: like a cow heart, and these hearts are very irritable.
Speaker 3: This woman, who was I think in her nineties, I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure. He said, they kept going in and her
Speaker 3: heart would stop, and then the zapper, she's back. So
Speaker 3: the woman just passes away. But this doctor told me
Speaker 3: that the friend told him that as her friend was dying,
Speaker 3: She says, she herself the friend went out of her
Speaker 3: body and was going up right with her friend toward
Speaker 3: this light, and she saw the people she recognized as
Speaker 3: the friends and relatives of her friend, and all of
Speaker 3: them had died. It's all. I mean. I could go
Speaker 3: on telling you a hundreds more, one hundred, as many
Speaker 3: as you want. Stories like that. This near death experience
Speaker 3: is not something that is somehow generated by an oxygen
Speaker 3: that bird age deprived brain. But it's going to take
Speaker 3: something else than what we have for society to wake
Speaker 3: up with that, because this is too threatening people for
Speaker 3: many people of of us. Some people can accept that
Speaker 3: there's an afterlife, this idea scares a lot of other people,
Speaker 3: so we're still going to be stuck for a while.
Speaker 3: And this sort of framework is the reality versus the
Speaker 3: oxygen deprivation. But you know one thing those folks never
Speaker 3: think of is even if you could prove that it
Speaker 3: was not oxygen deprivation to the brain, that still wouldn't
Speaker 3: prove that it's life.
Speaker 2: You see.
Speaker 3: So in a way, that is all irrelevant because a
Speaker 3: certain kind of mind, they've got to have this kind
Speaker 3: of framework to process. But when this is going to
Speaker 3: come all the loose is when we can step outside
Speaker 3: of that framework and look at whole new possibilities about
Speaker 3: these near experiences.
Speaker 1: What's a precognitive experience?
Speaker 4: These are not all necessarily related to near death experiences.
Speaker 4: I think that's the beauty of a shared death experience.
Speaker 4: A shared death experience is when someone who is well
Speaker 4: shares the death experience of someone who's dying. So in
Speaker 4: the case of a precognitive experience, we have a couple
Speaker 4: of case studies here people who had loved ones in
Speaker 4: China and they were in England and they wake up
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night and they see this
Speaker 4: person who's in China standing at the foot of their
Speaker 4: bed and tells them I've died and I'll miss you,
Speaker 4: and then that's the end of the experience. It's later
Speaker 4: proven that this person did die at the same time
Speaker 4: that they had appeared to this individual. And we have
Speaker 4: doctors who have seen their fathers. They've woken up and
Speaker 4: they've seen their fathers standing there and the father says,
Speaker 4: you know, you better talk to your mother, because I've
Speaker 4: spoken to her and she knows that I'm dead. You
Speaker 4: better talk to your mother. At the facts, that's precognitive,
Speaker 4: it's that kind of an experience. But there's other ones
Speaker 4: in here that aren't. They aren't all related to near
Speaker 4: death experiences. And I think that's really the power of
Speaker 4: this book is that this book takes off from near
Speaker 4: death experiences, what's your subjective experiences? In other words, a
Speaker 4: person who hasn't as an NDE is the person who
Speaker 4: has it, and no one else has had it, no
Speaker 4: one else can really experience with the experience. But to
Speaker 4: share death experience is when someone shares the experience of
Speaker 4: a dying individual. And that's what makes this book very different.
Speaker 4: So if you look at things like light, mist and music,
Speaker 4: we have once again a number of physicians who in
Speaker 4: a hospital have actually seen a light or a mist
Speaker 4: leave a person's body as they die. Or we have
Speaker 4: people who hear music when someone is dying. They'll be
Speaker 4: in the room and they'll hear music, and sometimes there
Speaker 4: might be several people in the room with this individual
Speaker 4: who hear music, and then several who don't. And that's
Speaker 4: one of the puzzles of shared death experiences.
Speaker 3: You were mentioning too earlier, Sandra, about out of body experiences,
Speaker 3: which are yes, that is a rather mind boggling part
Speaker 3: of near death experiences. They often say they hear the
Speaker 3: doctor pronounce them dead or say that they've died or whatever,
Speaker 3: but they say, from their point of view, they feel
Speaker 3: that they actually leave their physical bodies and they drift up.
Speaker 3: Typically in most of the stories I hear, that's in
Speaker 3: an operating room or medical facility or whatever. So people
Speaker 3: say they can rise up, they see their body down below,
Speaker 3: they can see the doctors and nurses working on it,
Speaker 3: but their consciousness is separate. And then they say, in
Speaker 3: the circumstances, you can understand what the doctor or nurse
Speaker 3: or whoever are communicating, but you don't hear their voice.
Speaker 3: That you sort of pick up on what they're communicating
Speaker 3: by mind. When they try to communicate in turn, that
Speaker 3: nobody can hear them kind of dawns on them that
Speaker 3: this might be connected with what we call death. And
Speaker 3: so with that realization, they say they go through this
Speaker 3: passageway into another world.
Speaker 1: This is a great time to sneak in a break,
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back with Paul Perry and doctor
Speaker 1: Raymond Moody talking about their new book. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. I'm Sam Champlain and you're listening to
Speaker 1: a conversation I had with doctor Raymond Boody and Paul
Speaker 1: Perry this week on their brand new book called Proof
Speaker 1: of Life After Life, Seven Reasons to Believe There isn't
Speaker 1: after Life. I feel so grateful that they picked me
Speaker 1: for their first interview, and they were kind enough to
Speaker 1: send me a copy of the book before it went
Speaker 1: out to the public, so there's a high chance that
Speaker 1: you're hearing this information before the rest of the world.
Speaker 1: The forward of the book is by Eben Alexander, who
Speaker 1: wrote of course proof of heaven. I want to tell
Speaker 1: you what the seven reasons to believe are. Reason number one,
Speaker 1: out of body experiences, Reason number two, precognitive experiences, Reason
Speaker 1: number three, the transforming light, Reason number four, terminal lucidity,
Speaker 1: Reason number five, spontaneous meat, uses healings and skills, Reason
Speaker 1: number six, light missed and music, and reason number seven
Speaker 1: the psychomntium. We all like hearing stories about what people experienced,
Speaker 1: and this book is filled with stories, but not just
Speaker 1: any stories, stories from doctors. Let's continue with Paul Perry
Speaker 1: talking about terminal lucidity.
Speaker 4: We had one really incredible story from the nineteen thirties
Speaker 4: of a woman who had meningitis as a child and
Speaker 4: as a result, was essentially non functional her entire life.
Speaker 4: She couldn't speak, she couldn't communicate much of any way
Speaker 4: at all. As she was dying, she started singing, and
Speaker 4: she started singing a song. She had never communicated, like
Speaker 4: I say anything before. She started singing a song, saying
Speaker 4: it so beautifully that the medicals staff was weeping and
Speaker 4: they were all pouring into her room to hear this
Speaker 4: phenomenon take place. And she seemed to have acquired information
Speaker 4: she seemed to have acquired knowledge. In her final moments,
Speaker 4: she sang, and then shortly thereafter she died. That's all
Speaker 4: Senator's terminal lucidity, where someone becomes very lucid at the
Speaker 4: point of being terminal.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, there are people too that, whether
Speaker 1: it's dementia, there's nothing left, and then there are these bursts.
Speaker 1: There can be bursts of they recognize everybody in the room.
Speaker 1: And beyond is that all could be tied in with
Speaker 1: this time.
Speaker 4: Yes, there was one written about in Time magazine where
Speaker 4: a doctor wrote about the oncologist and this person he
Speaker 4: was talking about had essentially a head full of tumors
Speaker 4: and he was just dead. He was essentially living dead.
Speaker 4: But at the last moment, when children came into the room,
Speaker 4: he popped out of it and he spoke with great
Speaker 4: lucidity about how pleased he was to be their father
Speaker 4: and what he would like to see continue in the family.
Speaker 4: And they thought, he's healed, we can take him home,
Speaker 4: and within a few hours he passed away. That's the
Speaker 4: story of terminal City. I think it's going to be
Speaker 4: one of the most common paranormal experiences.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Sundra people used to know about this
Speaker 3: as just folk knowledge. They called it fay f e.
Speaker 3: One I think was if you look into the Oxford
Speaker 3: English sctionary, this sort of central definition of that is
Speaker 3: a state of extraordinary enhanced consciousness that pretense emminent dath.
Speaker 3: And people knew about that when people died at home,
Speaker 3: but then people started dying at hospital. But see if anybody,
Speaker 3: I mean, I can attest this, you know. I obviously
Speaker 3: one of my activities as a medical doctor, a lot
Speaker 3: of it had to do with the terminally helps. I
Speaker 3: was known for that, and people would call me in
Speaker 3: and so on. Anybody who is in that situation for
Speaker 3: any period of time, hospice workers or whatever, you're going
Speaker 3: to see this. And the trouble is when you describe it,
Speaker 3: it's like you can nobody can believe it. I know
Speaker 3: the description, but all right, here is the description. It's
Speaker 3: like as a person died, they've even been demented on
Speaker 3: it is like that, no communication for a long time,
Speaker 3: and then as they die here you go hold onto
Speaker 3: your hat. They light out, I swear to you, and
Speaker 3: it's not the light coming from a light bulb, but
Speaker 3: from the sun is coming from inside of them. It's
Speaker 3: just this pure light.
Speaker 4: It's full of lightning experience, by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and people is like they've become completely coherent. It's
Speaker 3: like my uncle, as he was dying, went around. I
Speaker 3: gave a message to everybody and the family personally. And
Speaker 3: yet you know that, you know that if you talk
Speaker 3: about this, nobody else who hasn't seen it is even
Speaker 3: capable of believing I had. This guy was a well
Speaker 3: known on collogist. He was, I guess in his seventies,
Speaker 3: and he was telling me this. He said, he had
Speaker 3: this patient he had been dealing with for a long time,
Speaker 3: and so the patient had died, and so they had
Speaker 3: covered the patient up with the sheet. So the doctor
Speaker 3: was standing around with the family who he had known
Speaker 3: all a long time, and suddenly they saw the twitch
Speaker 3: from under the sheet of front. You know what I mean,
Speaker 3: he said. So he starts talking to everybody coherrectly, and
Speaker 3: then he just sat back. Then, Dad, my friend said,
Speaker 3: he said, unless those other people have been there with me,
Speaker 3: he said, I would have concluded that I had had
Speaker 3: an hallucination. It's just that uncanny when you say it.
Speaker 4: Really, I think it's more common than people recognize. Yes,
Speaker 4: it's now starting to be included on whatever the medical
Speaker 4: records are. There's now, you know, a description on Cermons
Speaker 4: description of term elucidity, and it just happened, and now
Speaker 4: they're starting to find that it's quite common.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Bystanders often say, is what this man flew all
Speaker 3: the way from Australia to see me to tell me
Speaker 3: about the experience he had with his wife when he's dying.
Speaker 3: He was getting ready to go to the store for
Speaker 3: a minute, and so he just wanted to come on
Speaker 3: their out and be right back. But when he walked
Speaker 3: down the room, he said, it was like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: she's perking up, and it was like they had a
Speaker 3: really heartfelt conversation and he thought she's turning around. So
Speaker 3: he went to the store. As you can imagine, when
Speaker 3: he came back, she was dead. And I will remember
Speaker 3: that look on his face when he told me he
Speaker 3: said what it was like. He said, she already had
Speaker 3: one foot on the other side, and the mystified look
Speaker 3: on his face. It's not something that is easy to
Speaker 3: put aside as oxygen deprivation to the brain. I'll tell
Speaker 3: you that.
Speaker 4: These experiences are amazing. I mean this. In putting together
Speaker 4: this book I feel like I've heard everything and seen everything,
Speaker 4: and I discovered that wasn't true. In putting this book together.
Speaker 4: One of the things that was very unique to me
Speaker 4: is that years ago, if you told her doctor you
Speaker 4: were working out a book on near death experiences, many
Speaker 4: of them would pooh pooh it. They would deny that
Speaker 4: it took place. Now you start to hear stories from physicians.
Speaker 4: Many of the stories in this book, we have a
Speaker 4: large number of physician stories, and then some of them,
Speaker 4: like one that really amazes me is is people who
Speaker 4: see a mist coming out of someone who's dying. Because
Speaker 4: not only have we spoken to several doctors who has
Speaker 4: come out of people who are dying, but the description
Speaker 4: of what happens is the same. Is that they'll see
Speaker 4: a mist and the mist forms and seems to get
Speaker 4: sucked into a tube, are sucked into some hole and
Speaker 4: disappeared through there through the ceiling. I mean, the description
Speaker 4: is the same, which is good news because it means
Speaker 4: that it's it's a legitimate phenomenon. If it repeats certain elements,
Speaker 4: it's a legitimate phenomenon.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've got to be honest, I'm saying it
Speaker 3: most I mean, I just old that walk was that
Speaker 3: it presents itself as a mist to us, because a
Speaker 3: mist is a symbol of the unknown or the unknowable.
Speaker 3: I guess it's clouds themselves, which we now understood.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: You remember in the eighth grade you learned that that
Speaker 3: system of classifying the four types the cumulus and the stratus,
Speaker 3: and cyrus and nimbus. And that came about in the
Speaker 3: eighteen thirties because up to that time, see, the common
Speaker 3: sense was that clouds are unknowable because they unintelligible, efemorable,
Speaker 3: all changeable, and they were the very symbol people. It
Speaker 3: was what the people symbolized unknowability or unintelligibility, that it's unstable.
Speaker 3: And because knowledge, by contrast, is something solid and stable,
Speaker 3: so the knowledge of the clouds would by definition be
Speaker 3: and people were ridiculed. Up in the clouds we say,
Speaker 3: you know, and in the clouds we still say those things.
Speaker 3: That was something utterly unintelligible and beyond reason and knowledge.
Speaker 3: Then this guy named Luke Howard who was a pharmacist
Speaker 3: and he traveled in his business back and forth. It's
Speaker 3: just interested in this got to watching clouds through the
Speaker 3: carriage or where we're drawing them. Then he realized, oh
Speaker 3: my god, there's different types of some of them are
Speaker 3: big empuffs. So he published this paper from a scientific
Speaker 3: society he belonged to, and it created a sensation because,
Speaker 3: as you can imagine, anybody who cared to read the
Speaker 3: paper and then wanted to walk outside could see was
Speaker 3: right right, Because you can all say it for ourselves,
Speaker 3: why don't you? And so I think, you know, something
Speaker 3: like that has got to happen, because this is so
Speaker 3: what in the world are we dealing with? What they
Speaker 3: missed coming out of somebody's body when they die.
Speaker 1: I asked these guys if they thought shared death experiences
Speaker 1: happen because people are in the present moment. We like
Speaker 1: to believe that doctors are in the present moment.
Speaker 4: You do have to have a peaceful mind, a present mind,
Speaker 4: but you also a lot have to have a lot
Speaker 4: of empathy. I think empathy is a real factor and
Speaker 4: all these experiences interesting. People with empathy can be in
Speaker 4: a room with someone who's dying and they can lend
Speaker 4: their empathy to the person, and sometimes other people just
Speaker 4: can't do it. They just can't be around someone.
Speaker 1: Who's dying sharing feelings of another is so important in
Speaker 1: life and apparently in depth. Let's go to the break
Speaker 1: and we'll be back. You're listening to Shades of the
Speaker 1: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Speaker 1: podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm
Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain. My book We Don't Die, a skeptics discovery
Speaker 1: of life after death, came out in twenty and thirteen.
Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, I started We Don't Die Radio, interviewing
Speaker 1: people about why they believed in the afterlife. In the
Speaker 1: beginning of twenty twenty, Tom producer of Coast to Coast AM,
Speaker 1: came to me with an idea to create Shades of
Speaker 1: the Afterlife. As he liked my work. It would be
Speaker 1: a podcast of me reporting on various reasons to believe
Speaker 1: in the afterlife. Shades is now going on three years old,
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of both my podcasts. I know I
Speaker 1: have a different set of listeners for each one, and
Speaker 1: some people listen to both. Every so often. I have
Speaker 1: a guest so spectacular that I feel I need to
Speaker 1: share on both platforms today. I feel the same way.
Speaker 1: What you're listening to now is an edited version of
Speaker 1: a very long video conversation I had with doctor Moody
Speaker 1: and Paul Perry. If you wish to watch the entire thing,
Speaker 1: go to We Don't Die dot com click on the
Speaker 1: radio show page. Trust me, when I think something can
Speaker 1: really make a difference, I want to get it to
Speaker 1: as many people as I can, as fast as I can.
Speaker 1: So let's continue listening to some words by doctor Raymond Moody.
Speaker 3: I tell you it's just a mystery one of person
Speaker 3: who almost dies as an experience of seeing another world.
Speaker 3: And it's a mystery multiplock when a bunch of people
Speaker 3: say in after life that the death of somebody else,
Speaker 3: But you know, the reality is, we just don't have
Speaker 3: the mind to compute it. My hero of the afterlife
Speaker 3: thinking is still David In, the great skeptic who influenced Einstein.
Speaker 3: For example, he was seventeen eleven to seventeen seventy six,
Speaker 3: the archetype of the skeptic. He was so skeptic, he said,
Speaker 3: as to the impressions which arise from their senses, he said,
Speaker 3: it's utterly beyond the rational possibility to determine whether those
Speaker 3: things arise from the objects or are from the creative
Speaker 3: power of our mind or from the author of our being.
Speaker 3: It's like the whole assumption that we live in a
Speaker 3: physical world and that is all a product of consciousness
Speaker 3: and inferences about consciousness, and that's the reality. And humans
Speaker 3: by the mere light of reason, it seems difficult to
Speaker 3: prove the immortality of the soul. Now there's an understatement,
Speaker 3: and he went on to say, some new species of
Speaker 3: logic is required for that purpose, and some new faculties
Speaker 3: of the mind that they may enable us to comprehend
Speaker 3: that logic. Now, that is the brute reality. That's the
Speaker 3: real that's the fact, no matter what anybody wants to
Speaker 3: say or you know it's that's the real fact. And
Speaker 3: so you see, it's traditionally been a thought that that's
Speaker 3: the end of it. You know that that's impossible to me,
Speaker 3: I say, no, absolutely not. We can do it. There
Speaker 3: are new ways of thinking logic group, and if you
Speaker 3: apply these new principles of logic, you can open faculties
Speaker 3: or your mind you didn't know you had, and that
Speaker 3: when you put those things together, we can actually prepare
Speaker 3: our minds in advance so that when subsequently we happen
Speaker 3: to have it in your death experience, we can come
Speaker 3: back and tell everybody else about it in a whole
Speaker 3: new way. I guarantee you what I'm saying is, if
Speaker 3: you're curious about the afterlife and all that, just meaning
Speaker 3: this book by proof of an effllent. I'm a logician,
Speaker 3: you know I've studied proof. There is all different kinds
Speaker 3: of proofs. What I want to say here is is
Speaker 3: there proof of an effllence? That's what most people want
Speaker 3: to know, and from what I have studied and what
Speaker 3: I've listened to lots of people about what they're mean
Speaker 3: when they're trying to say what kind of proof do
Speaker 3: you want? What I can say is this. I can
Speaker 3: say that as a logician person who's taught logic and philosophy,
Speaker 3: I can say that it is a rational thing for
Speaker 3: you to anticipate that when you die some amazing thing
Speaker 3: is going to happen that won't sort of transfer you
Speaker 3: into a call different level a round in that. That's
Speaker 3: when I'm anticipating, not it's not a matter of believe
Speaker 3: in or disbelieve as it is for me. So in
Speaker 3: that sense, yeah, there's a proof there's for those who
Speaker 3: are you know, not symbolic logicians or whatever, but just
Speaker 3: ordinary folks wanting to know is there a rational basis
Speaker 3: for this? Say absolutely, absolutely, Paul.
Speaker 1: What do you have to say about that?
Speaker 4: Well, I heartily concur with that, and I know I
Speaker 4: did want to mention that there's a lot of people
Speaker 4: who want to know how to access Heaven's Gate, if
Speaker 4: you will, and one of the theories they've come up with
Speaker 4: is the theory of background information. And what that says
Speaker 4: is is that on a daily basis, we're hit by thousands,
Speaker 4: if not millions, of bits of information. You know, everything
Speaker 4: for everything you see visually, to everything you read, all
Speaker 4: your opinions, your own self talk and other people's talk,
Speaker 4: and that what happens when people reach the state of
Speaker 4: having an afterlife open up to them is that somehow
Speaker 4: all of this background information, the unnecessary information, has cleared
Speaker 4: out of their mind and they're able to focus on
Speaker 4: the real background information, which is what happens to us
Speaker 4: on a supernatural way. To do that, many people have
Speaker 4: done deep meditations, they've done dark room meditations, things like that,
Speaker 4: and there's still a long way to go and figure
Speaker 4: out how to access this afterlife, if you will, But
Speaker 4: that's one theory of it that once you clean out
Speaker 4: the background information, you have an open gate if you will.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: What's the psycho manteum?
Speaker 3: Well, that's something I found out about when I was
Speaker 3: eighteen years old, which I thought was ogwash. I am
Speaker 3: a great fan of the Greeks, and when I was
Speaker 3: eighteen I had a great course reading Herodotus, the history
Speaker 3: these ancient Greek oracles of the Dad. They wrote about
Speaker 3: they had places where you could go, where you go
Speaker 3: through procedures and you would seem to see and talk
Speaker 3: to deceased relatives. And so, to make a very long
Speaker 3: story short, I also studied psychiatry and in altered states
Speaker 3: of consciousness. I had been studying for some time the
Speaker 3: phenomenon where if you have a vacant space in your
Speaker 3: vision will feel like a glittering space or a clear depth.
Speaker 3: They call it like you can take a silver bowl
Speaker 3: and highly polish it on the inside, fill it with
Speaker 3: olive oil, and then in a darkened room you gaze
Speaker 3: by candlelight or some low illumination, you gaze into that.
Speaker 3: And many people under those circumstances I have these hypnogogic
Speaker 3: visions where they see this very lifelike, not like mental imagery,
Speaker 3: but very lifelike, three dimensional visions. And I had known
Speaker 3: about that, and I experimented with my psychology students. But
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five six seven, I are found in
Speaker 3: an archaeological journal that an archaeologist I already knew about
Speaker 3: Ceterios Docors, he was very famous Greek classical archaeologist, had
Speaker 3: rediscovered this place the oracle of the dead, and it
Speaker 3: excavated it based on what they found there was in
Speaker 3: the apparition chamber. They found a large cauldron, bronze cauldron,
Speaker 3: and it was surrounded by a balustrae. This was obviously
Speaker 3: a place you saw the visions, and there's torch marks
Speaker 3: on the wall showing it was illuminated. You stayed down
Speaker 3: there for twenty nine days talking about the person who died.
Speaker 3: So then you went into a cut stone maze and
Speaker 3: complete darkness, felt your way into this chamber and they
Speaker 3: are gazing into this you saw the apparitions setarios hadn't
Speaker 3: figured that part out. I had figured that party out,
Speaker 3: and so I went to his place in ninety three
Speaker 3: or something ninety four and I told him about No.
Speaker 3: I think what it is is this because I recreated
Speaker 3: it by then, and he said, yeah, like then he realized.
Speaker 3: He showed me some books that people saying he had
Speaker 3: just never put two and two together, but I tried
Speaker 3: it out. You just set up a room where there's
Speaker 3: a mirror. Bad. It's a darkened room, but the mirror
Speaker 3: is placed higher than your line of visions, so you
Speaker 3: don't see your reflection. The room is dark and you
Speaker 3: don't see reflections. There's a gentle light behind you. Illuminated
Speaker 3: this gently. But the primary thing is the preparation, Like
Speaker 3: you think about talk about with your friend, like the
Speaker 3: person who died, what was this person? Like? What are
Speaker 3: your best memories? What are your sticking points in the relationships.
Speaker 3: So then after this preparation, you go in there and
Speaker 3: you just gaze into the mirror, and people have extraordinary things.
Speaker 3: I was not expecting what the result. I was my
Speaker 3: graduate students of psychology then time went. But my medical colleagues,
Speaker 3: a psychiatry colleague, and a clinical psychologist colleague, and a
Speaker 3: sociology colleague and an aneshesiologist were my subjects. And these
Speaker 3: were people who were informed about the mind. So I
Speaker 3: figured that anybody that did have a vision that said yeah, ray,
Speaker 3: when I saw my grandma or was it real or
Speaker 3: wasn't That was what I was expecting. But imagine my
Speaker 3: surprise when my colleagues and graduate students came out of
Speaker 3: there not saying I saw them, but yeah, I talked
Speaker 3: to my grandma, and it was startling to me. It
Speaker 3: was a way. I mean, I had no idea of
Speaker 3: what I tapped into. And what people say is that
Speaker 3: some say the image appears in the mirror. Others say that, yeah,
Speaker 3: the image appears in the mirror, but then the image
Speaker 3: comes out into the room.
Speaker 1: Their book, Proof of Life after Life Seven Reasons to
Speaker 1: Believe there is an Afterlife has instructions about setting up
Speaker 1: your own psychomantium. Also remember to visit doctor Moody site
Speaker 1: Life Afterlife dot com and Paul Perry Productions dot com.
Speaker 1: And visit us at we Dondie dot com. Click on
Speaker 1: the radio show page, come to a free Sunday gathering,
Speaker 1: take a medium class with us, and more. I'm Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com