1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: And you're here. 2 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. We invite you to enjoy 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now, 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Santra channaplay. 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: to Coast AM employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi. 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know that 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so will we. 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. I had an extraordinary 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: opportunity this past week. I got to interview the great 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: doctor Raymond Moody and co author Paul Perry on a 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: brand new book, and depending on when you're listening, it 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: may already be out. The book is titled Proof of 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: Life After Life, Seven Reasons to Believe there is an Afterlife. 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: The entire recording is well over an hour, so if 24 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: you would like to watch the full video interview, just 25 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: go to We Don't Die dot com and click on 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: the radio show page. Today, I want to include some 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: of the clips from that magnificent convertation and read to 28 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: you a little bit about what's in the book. They 29 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: were kind enough to send me a copy before it 30 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: gets out to the public. This is one of those 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: interviews that I actually learned some new things about life 32 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: after death, and I think you will too. So let 33 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: me tell you about the guys you are going to 34 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: hear from. First of all, doctor Raymond Moody and Paul 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: Perry are both longtime friends, both New York Times bestselling 36 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: authors with fifty years of investigating life after death. Doctor 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: Raymond Moody is the leading authority on the near death experience, 38 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: a phrase he coined back in the late seventies. His 39 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: groundbreaking work Life After Life completely changed the way we 40 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: viewed death and dying and has sold more than thirteen 41 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: million copies. Paul Perry is the co author of five 42 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: New York Times Best line including The Light Beyond with 43 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Moody, Saved by the Light with Daniel Brinkley, and 44 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: Evidence of the Afterlife with doctor Jeffrey Long. He has 45 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: co written a dozen books on near death experiences, four 46 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: of them with doctor Moody, and directed two popular documentary 47 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: films on the subject. You can visit doctor Moody's website 48 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: at Life Afterlife dot com, and you can see all 49 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: that Paul Perry has done at Paul Perryproductions dot com. 50 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: So today we'll be talking about their book Proof of 51 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: Life after Life, Seven Reasons to Believe there is an Afterlife. 52 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: I first asked these two gentlemen how they met each other. 53 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: Hi, there, Helle, Thank you so much for this invitation. 54 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited not just to share you, but it's 55 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: two for the price of one today, two wonderful gentlemen 56 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: and me lucky am I? How did you two first meet? 57 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: If I can ask that question? 58 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 4: Oh, that was interesting. Raymond was working on a book 59 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 4: at the time. Was a working title was Light Beyond. 60 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: That's what it ended up being called. And I was 61 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 4: editing a major health magazine in New York called American Health. 62 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 4: And my agent took me out to lunch one day 63 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 4: and he said, would you mind giving doctor Raymond Moody 64 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 4: a hand and writing a book? And I said, I 65 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: don't even know who doctor Moody is. And he said, really, 66 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 4: he named the near death experience and defined it. And 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 4: I said, I don't know what a near death experience is. 68 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: And so nat our agent says, is an abrupt guy. 69 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 4: And he says, I can't believe it. You're editing a 70 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 4: major health magazine. You're not smart enough to know what 71 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 4: a near death experience is. You need to go meet 72 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 4: Raymond Moody and study this whole field. And so that's 73 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 4: what I did. I went to Atlanta. Raymond was living 74 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 4: in Carrollton at the time, Georgia, and we talked about 75 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 4: the book The Light Beyond. We hit it off right away, 76 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 4: and one thing leads to another, and since now we've 77 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 4: written this is our sixth book together. Proof of Life 78 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 4: After Life is our sixth book. And one book always 79 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 4: leads to a question, and the question that needs to 80 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 4: be answered. And so that's what we do. We'll write 81 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 4: a book and all of a sudden, they'll be with 82 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 4: the light beyond. It was, see, there's nothing in this 83 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 4: book about children and near death experiences. And Raymond said, well, 84 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 4: you know, there's not much research being done on it. 85 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: But he directed me to Melvin Morris and Seattle and 86 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 4: I went to see Melvin and we wrote. We wrote 87 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 4: four books on children and Near death Experiences and other 88 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 4: aspects of the near death experience, and three of those 89 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 4: were New York Times bestsellers. And then it would go 90 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: on and on. We'd have question after question, book after book, 91 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 4: and that's what we did from that point to now 92 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 4: is answer these questions. 93 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: Incredible, doctor Moody, you remember when you met Paul. 94 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: I certainly do. And you know, Paul and I think 95 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: we have a great, you know, working team here because 96 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: I just tell you the truth. All the people who 97 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: know me very well will tell you it's true. But 98 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 3: in fact, I am such a bore and the way 99 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 3: I think, oh yes, all right, listen. I was a 100 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 3: professor of philosophy and logic, and my lifelong thing since 101 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 3: the age of eighteen is ancient Greek philosophy. Well, there's 102 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: a bestseller for you, right. So what I'm getting at 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 3: is This is not most people's fair, but it's how 104 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: I got interested in this from Plato studied this, and 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: the early Greek philosophers knew about these things. That's how 106 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: I found about it. Long But you know, a philosopher 107 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: is going to be the right person to present some 108 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: of this information to the average person, I think, and 109 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 3: so I tend to talk in abstractions and put the 110 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: information in that context. Whereas Paul could say, hey, just 111 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: a minute here, professor, you know that doesn't make any 112 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: sense to what And together we come up with the 113 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 3: way I think to present information that is sometimes very 114 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 3: you know, complex, hopefully in a way that people will't 115 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: relate to it and benefit from it. 116 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 4: From there, Raymond is one of the probably the most 117 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 4: exciting and interesting person I know, and for reasons just 118 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 4: stated he knows everything. 119 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: Oh no, but I know enough to know I don't 120 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: know hardly any of that is the right I am. 121 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 4: You know, he knows nothing about the Yankees or the 122 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 4: LA Dodgers. 123 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: No. I do know about the professional wrestling, though that's true. 124 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 4: That's another subject. 125 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: Though we need to follow our passions, right. We can't 126 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: talk about the ass but. 127 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: This topic that you're interested in Sandra and Paul and 128 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: I are interested in It's been my experience beginning at 129 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: age eighteen, actually that when people reach a certain age, 130 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 3: and especially so I think that people have been so 131 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: successful that they've spent their lifetime focusing on their business 132 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 3: or the businesy work, you know, just focusing on that 133 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: side of life. When they reach a certain age, say fifties, sixties, seventies, 134 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: they begin to wake up to this question of life 135 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 3: after death, which has been put aside or thought of 136 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 3: as trivial or you know, it doesn't have or and 137 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: then they just automatically wake up to it. By the way, 138 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 3: that reason I found out about that at age eighteen 139 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: was I read it at my hero Plato, my first 140 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 3: philosophy class in September of sixty two. Reading the first 141 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: few pages of Plato's Republic, I decided then there to 142 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 3: shift from astronomy, which is why I went there to 143 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: study immediately to philosophy. Because this why is Plato's work 144 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: still in print at any store twenty three hundred years 145 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: People shouldn't ask themselves that well, number one, because it 146 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 3: is amazing, terrific stuff, and this Republic is about, in 147 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: the end, a near death experience. It starts with this 148 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: old guy who's been very successful in life, he says, 149 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 3: and Socrates is then about twenty meets the old guy says, 150 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: you know, Kevalos, what's it like from your point of view? Oh, 151 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: Kevlo says, I've been very successful when my business made 152 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 3: a lot of money. I've spent all time on my business, 153 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: and now here I am. I saw all those stories 154 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: I heard about about the afterlife when I was a kid, 155 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: coming back in these people developed a sense of urgency. 156 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: Then in a later Plato dialogue I read that same 157 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 3: semester he talked about the importance of this question of 158 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: life after death. So that's how I got into this, 159 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: and it's it came from Greek philosophy, where it was 160 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: a big point of study. And yet of course all 161 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: the other things too that people are concerned about. Because 162 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: after I got my PhD in philosophy, I was a 163 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 3: philosophy professor. I went into psychiatry, with my specific interest 164 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 3: in it being why people kill people from a law 165 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 3: enforcement family, wrote in a cop card. When I was 166 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: a kid, I mean my brother a shaf, my two uncles, Chieficale, 167 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: two cousins. I mean my dad worked for the DEA 168 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: as a surgeon for this drug stuff, and you see 169 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: how it is, you know. So to me, this big question, 170 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 3: which I studied from early on is why in the 171 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 3: world would somebody kill somebody? So I studied that in psychiatry, 172 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: and that worked in a unit for the criminally in 173 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 3: saying it was full of these people that you read 174 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: about in the National Enquirer was my daily work. And 175 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 3: so through all of this I have developed I think 176 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 3: a great piece in one respect with respect to the 177 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: question of life after death, and not through a logical 178 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: process exactly, because there's great logical difficulties in trying to 179 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: prove an after life, but thinking it through myself, I 180 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: just give up, you know. To me it looks like, yeah, 181 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 3: there's a life after death, as counterintuitive is it still 182 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: seems to me, and having no template from it, but 183 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: always debating with myself about it. It's this thing about 184 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: oxygen deprivation to the brain. I'm sorry, that's beloney, But 185 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: people have the same experience identically who are not themselves 186 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 3: ill or injured are going through our resuscitation, but rather 187 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 3: who are there in the presence of somebody who is dying. 188 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: This is a good time to take our break and 189 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: then we'll get back. What doctor Moody's starting to talk 190 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: about is the shared death experience. I wanted to play 191 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: all that to so you've got a little flavor for 192 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: who these gentlemen are. They've been at this a long time, 193 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: So let's go to the break and be back. You're 194 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and 195 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to 196 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we're listening 197 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: to Paul Perry and the world famous doctor Raymond Moody 198 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: talking about their brand new book, Proof of Life After Life, 199 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: Seven Reasons to Believe there is an afterlife, and I'll 200 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: give you a little sneak preview. Their reasons are all 201 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: in the realm of this shared death experience. So let's 202 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: listen to doctor Moody talk about the shared death experience. 203 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 3: It's a very frequent occurrence that people standing around say 204 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 3: things like, oh, as grandma was dying, I myself, I 205 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: lift it out of my body. I started going towards 206 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 3: this light with my grandma, where people say, as Grandma 207 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 3: was dying, apparitions of the dying person's loved ones come 208 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: in the room, people see that, the whole room fills 209 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 3: with light. And most strikingly to me that in many 210 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 3: cases I've studied over the years, the by then at 211 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: the death of someone else that as the person's dying 212 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: will themselves empathically co participate in the dying life review 213 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: of the person there. And this to me is startling 214 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: information and it makes me trying to come up with 215 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: some reason that I could get myself recused from my 216 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: life review, because you know, the idea of his self 217 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 3: is enough to scare to worry about. But you know, 218 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 3: the idea of having a spectator there these people past 219 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: the popcorn. But it happens. It happens not just to 220 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: people as I would have thought, who are intimate and 221 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 3: know the person well. But in one case, a medical 222 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: doctors don't of sin is dying patients life review, who 223 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: had never even laid his eyes on the patient force 224 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 3: just called to the er. 225 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 4: Two. 226 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: So what I'm talking about is it something odd is 227 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: going on there that does not fit into the view 228 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: of reality that we're pretty much forced intent, you know, 229 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: in everyday life. So but the older you get the 230 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: more you're a medical to explore these things. I noticed 231 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 3: that the older I get, the more of my friends 232 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 3: through my agent, had some kind of experience in their life, 233 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:58,359 Speaker 3: which is like stepping over into some other realm of existence. 234 00:15:59,120 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: See. 235 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends who are medical doctors 236 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 3: whose medical judgment I would trust one hundred percent if 237 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: something happened to me. And those same friends of mine 238 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: tell me that, yeah, they had this near death experience 239 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: and not only was it real, but it was more 240 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,479 Speaker 3: real than this ordinary reality. And you know the incredible 241 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 3: things that happen if you know the story probably of 242 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 3: Anthony Chikori and PhD in physiology in the professor of 243 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 3: orthopedic surgery at NYU, who had a profound death experience 244 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: and was struck in that had by a bolt of lightning, 245 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: had a cardiac rest and was it a family reunion, 246 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 3: was able to look all in, saw his relatives who 247 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: were there at the reunion at the resort center, even 248 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: though he was apparently dead, and you know, Anthony said, 249 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 3: you know, this is more real. Anthony, who had never 250 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 3: had any interest in music, started getting fascinated by the piano, 251 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: started having dreams in which he was playing a piano 252 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 3: or concert stage playing the same music, learned how to 253 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 3: play the piano and transcribe this music, and is now, 254 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: in addition to being a renowned orthopedic surgeon, as a 255 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: famed concert pianist too. I mean, see, things like that 256 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 3: don't make any sense if this world is as we 257 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 3: think by common sense that it is constituted. So see, 258 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: And I could go on with a you know, a 259 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 3: dozen other physicians that same story, but I give up. 260 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 3: I can't figure out how I could reconcile the fact 261 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 3: that I would put my help myself in these dogs hands, 262 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 3: you know, in a life or death situation, with the 263 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 3: fact that they all tell me that this thing is 264 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 3: more real than any reality that I've experienced. 265 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: I think, as human beings were hardwired not to believe. 266 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: Maybe it's to be tied in with the game of life. 267 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: I'm not hearing you though. I've experienced miracles myself, but 268 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning thinking is this all real? 269 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: You know? 270 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 3: Yeah? 271 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 4: I think that everybody's an experienced some kind of a 272 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 4: miracle and they don't recognize it or they don't want 273 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 4: to think about it. And when you start to mention, 274 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 4: for instance, with shared death experiences, which is what this 275 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 4: book is about. If you start to talk to people 276 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 4: about what you're working on, they almost everybody will say, well, 277 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 4: I've had an experience like that, and I didn't talk 278 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 4: about it because I thought people would think I was wacky, 279 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 4: or I just never thought it was an appropriate conversation. 280 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 4: For whatever reason, they don't like to bring it up. 281 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 4: Once you bring it up, that you start to open 282 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: up the flower, as it were, and people start to 283 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 4: deliver information that you previously didn't know was out there. 284 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 4: That's how it was with near death experiences, and this 285 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 4: book is vastly different from near death experiences, which your 286 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 4: experiences that take place with the people who are at 287 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: the best essentially at the bedside of someone has died, 288 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: who's dying, and they share their death experience. 289 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 3: I saw this old manor guy who was in his eighties, 290 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 3: who was a GP for all of his career, and 291 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 3: he was telling me, and this was that the Council 292 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 3: Grove Consciousness seminar that was put on by the Miniature Foundation, 293 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: and he was saying that he had this patient he 294 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 3: had had a long time. She was elderly and she 295 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 3: had hypertension and she had what we call corbo vine, 296 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: which is a big round art and it's caused by 297 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: if the high blood pressure over lumber. Design sometimes just 298 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: comes out and looks kind of round from pressure. Is 299 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 3: like a cow heart, and these hearts are very irritable. 300 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: This woman, who was I think in her nineties, I'm 301 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: pretty sure. He said, they kept going in and her 302 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: heart would stop, and then the zapper, she's back. So 303 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 3: the woman just passes away. But this doctor told me 304 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: that the friend told him that as her friend was dying, 305 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 3: She says, she herself the friend went out of her 306 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: body and was going up right with her friend toward 307 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: this light, and she saw the people she recognized as 308 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 3: the friends and relatives of her friend, and all of 309 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: them had died. It's all. I mean. I could go 310 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: on telling you a hundreds more, one hundred, as many 311 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: as you want. Stories like that. This near death experience 312 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 3: is not something that is somehow generated by an oxygen 313 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: that bird age deprived brain. But it's going to take 314 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 3: something else than what we have for society to wake 315 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: up with that, because this is too threatening people for 316 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: many people of of us. Some people can accept that 317 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 3: there's an afterlife, this idea scares a lot of other people, 318 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 3: so we're still going to be stuck for a while. 319 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 3: And this sort of framework is the reality versus the 320 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 3: oxygen deprivation. But you know one thing those folks never 321 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 3: think of is even if you could prove that it 322 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 3: was not oxygen deprivation to the brain, that still wouldn't 323 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: prove that it's life. 324 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: You see. 325 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: So in a way, that is all irrelevant because a 326 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: certain kind of mind, they've got to have this kind 327 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 3: of framework to process. But when this is going to 328 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 3: come all the loose is when we can step outside 329 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 3: of that framework and look at whole new possibilities about 330 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: these near experiences. 331 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: What's a precognitive experience? 332 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 4: These are not all necessarily related to near death experiences. 333 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 4: I think that's the beauty of a shared death experience. 334 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 4: A shared death experience is when someone who is well 335 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 4: shares the death experience of someone who's dying. So in 336 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 4: the case of a precognitive experience, we have a couple 337 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 4: of case studies here people who had loved ones in 338 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 4: China and they were in England and they wake up 339 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 4: in the middle of the night and they see this 340 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 4: person who's in China standing at the foot of their 341 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 4: bed and tells them I've died and I'll miss you, 342 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 4: and then that's the end of the experience. It's later 343 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 4: proven that this person did die at the same time 344 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 4: that they had appeared to this individual. And we have 345 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 4: doctors who have seen their fathers. They've woken up and 346 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 4: they've seen their fathers standing there and the father says, 347 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 4: you know, you better talk to your mother, because I've 348 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 4: spoken to her and she knows that I'm dead. You 349 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 4: better talk to your mother. At the facts, that's precognitive, 350 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 4: it's that kind of an experience. But there's other ones 351 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 4: in here that aren't. They aren't all related to near 352 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 4: death experiences. And I think that's really the power of 353 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 4: this book is that this book takes off from near 354 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: death experiences, what's your subjective experiences? In other words, a 355 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 4: person who hasn't as an NDE is the person who 356 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 4: has it, and no one else has had it, no 357 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 4: one else can really experience with the experience. But to 358 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 4: share death experience is when someone shares the experience of 359 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 4: a dying individual. And that's what makes this book very different. 360 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 4: So if you look at things like light, mist and music, 361 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 4: we have once again a number of physicians who in 362 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 4: a hospital have actually seen a light or a mist 363 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 4: leave a person's body as they die. Or we have 364 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 4: people who hear music when someone is dying. They'll be 365 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 4: in the room and they'll hear music, and sometimes there 366 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 4: might be several people in the room with this individual 367 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 4: who hear music, and then several who don't. And that's 368 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 4: one of the puzzles of shared death experiences. 369 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 3: You were mentioning too earlier, Sandra, about out of body experiences, 370 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 3: which are yes, that is a rather mind boggling part 371 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 3: of near death experiences. They often say they hear the 372 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 3: doctor pronounce them dead or say that they've died or whatever, 373 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: but they say, from their point of view, they feel 374 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 3: that they actually leave their physical bodies and they drift up. 375 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 3: Typically in most of the stories I hear, that's in 376 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: an operating room or medical facility or whatever. So people 377 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: say they can rise up, they see their body down below, 378 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: they can see the doctors and nurses working on it, 379 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 3: but their consciousness is separate. And then they say, in 380 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 3: the circumstances, you can understand what the doctor or nurse 381 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 3: or whoever are communicating, but you don't hear their voice. 382 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 3: That you sort of pick up on what they're communicating 383 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 3: by mind. When they try to communicate in turn, that 384 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 3: nobody can hear them kind of dawns on them that 385 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 3: this might be connected with what we call death. And 386 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 3: so with that realization, they say they go through this 387 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: passageway into another world. 388 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: This is a great time to sneak in a break, 389 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: and we'll be right back with Paul Perry and doctor 390 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: Raymond Moody talking about their new book. You're listening to 391 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 392 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: Coast Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades 393 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. I'm Sam Champlain and you're listening to 394 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: a conversation I had with doctor Raymond Boody and Paul 395 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: Perry this week on their brand new book called Proof 396 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: of Life After Life, Seven Reasons to Believe There isn't 397 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: after Life. I feel so grateful that they picked me 398 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: for their first interview, and they were kind enough to 399 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: send me a copy of the book before it went 400 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: out to the public, so there's a high chance that 401 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: you're hearing this information before the rest of the world. 402 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: The forward of the book is by Eben Alexander, who 403 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: wrote of course proof of heaven. I want to tell 404 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: you what the seven reasons to believe are. Reason number one, 405 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: out of body experiences, Reason number two, precognitive experiences, Reason 406 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: number three, the transforming light, Reason number four, terminal lucidity, 407 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: Reason number five, spontaneous meat, uses healings and skills, Reason 408 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: number six, light missed and music, and reason number seven 409 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: the psychomntium. We all like hearing stories about what people experienced, 410 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: and this book is filled with stories, but not just 411 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: any stories, stories from doctors. Let's continue with Paul Perry 412 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: talking about terminal lucidity. 413 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 4: We had one really incredible story from the nineteen thirties 414 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 4: of a woman who had meningitis as a child and 415 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 4: as a result, was essentially non functional her entire life. 416 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: She couldn't speak, she couldn't communicate much of any way 417 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 4: at all. As she was dying, she started singing, and 418 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 4: she started singing a song. She had never communicated, like 419 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 4: I say anything before. She started singing a song, saying 420 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 4: it so beautifully that the medicals staff was weeping and 421 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 4: they were all pouring into her room to hear this 422 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 4: phenomenon take place. And she seemed to have acquired information 423 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 4: she seemed to have acquired knowledge. In her final moments, 424 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 4: she sang, and then shortly thereafter she died. That's all 425 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 4: Senator's terminal lucidity, where someone becomes very lucid at the 426 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 4: point of being terminal. 427 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: I was just thinking, there are people too that, whether 428 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: it's dementia, there's nothing left, and then there are these bursts. 429 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: There can be bursts of they recognize everybody in the room. 430 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: And beyond is that all could be tied in with 431 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: this time. 432 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 4: Yes, there was one written about in Time magazine where 433 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: a doctor wrote about the oncologist and this person he 434 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 4: was talking about had essentially a head full of tumors 435 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 4: and he was just dead. He was essentially living dead. 436 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 4: But at the last moment, when children came into the room, 437 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 4: he popped out of it and he spoke with great 438 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 4: lucidity about how pleased he was to be their father 439 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 4: and what he would like to see continue in the family. 440 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 4: And they thought, he's healed, we can take him home, 441 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 4: and within a few hours he passed away. That's the 442 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 4: story of terminal City. I think it's going to be 443 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 4: one of the most common paranormal experiences. 444 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Sundra people used to know about this 445 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: as just folk knowledge. They called it fay f e. 446 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 3: One I think was if you look into the Oxford 447 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 3: English sctionary, this sort of central definition of that is 448 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 3: a state of extraordinary enhanced consciousness that pretense emminent dath. 449 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 3: And people knew about that when people died at home, 450 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 3: but then people started dying at hospital. But see if anybody, 451 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I can attest this, you know. I obviously 452 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: one of my activities as a medical doctor, a lot 453 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 3: of it had to do with the terminally helps. I 454 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 3: was known for that, and people would call me in 455 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: and so on. Anybody who is in that situation for 456 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 3: any period of time, hospice workers or whatever, you're going 457 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 3: to see this. And the trouble is when you describe it, 458 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 3: it's like you can nobody can believe it. I know 459 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 3: the description, but all right, here is the description. It's 460 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 3: like as a person died, they've even been demented on 461 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 3: it is like that, no communication for a long time, 462 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: and then as they die here you go hold onto 463 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 3: your hat. They light out, I swear to you, and 464 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 3: it's not the light coming from a light bulb, but 465 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: from the sun is coming from inside of them. It's 466 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: just this pure light. 467 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 4: It's full of lightning experience, by the way. 468 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and people is like they've become completely coherent. It's 469 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 3: like my uncle, as he was dying, went around. I 470 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,239 Speaker 3: gave a message to everybody and the family personally. And 471 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 3: yet you know that, you know that if you talk 472 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 3: about this, nobody else who hasn't seen it is even 473 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 3: capable of believing I had. This guy was a well 474 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: known on collogist. He was, I guess in his seventies, 475 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 3: and he was telling me this. He said, he had 476 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: this patient he had been dealing with for a long time, 477 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 3: and so the patient had died, and so they had 478 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 3: covered the patient up with the sheet. So the doctor 479 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 3: was standing around with the family who he had known 480 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 3: all a long time, and suddenly they saw the twitch 481 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 3: from under the sheet of front. You know what I mean, 482 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 3: he said. So he starts talking to everybody coherrectly, and 483 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 3: then he just sat back. Then, Dad, my friend said, 484 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 3: he said, unless those other people have been there with me, 485 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 3: he said, I would have concluded that I had had 486 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 3: an hallucination. It's just that uncanny when you say it. 487 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 4: Really, I think it's more common than people recognize. Yes, 488 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 4: it's now starting to be included on whatever the medical 489 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 4: records are. There's now, you know, a description on Cermons 490 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 4: description of term elucidity, and it just happened, and now 491 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 4: they're starting to find that it's quite common. 492 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Bystanders often say, is what this man flew all 493 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 3: the way from Australia to see me to tell me 494 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 3: about the experience he had with his wife when he's dying. 495 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 3: He was getting ready to go to the store for 496 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: a minute, and so he just wanted to come on 497 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 3: their out and be right back. But when he walked 498 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: down the room, he said, it was like, oh my god, 499 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 3: she's perking up, and it was like they had a 500 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 3: really heartfelt conversation and he thought she's turning around. So 501 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 3: he went to the store. As you can imagine, when 502 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 3: he came back, she was dead. And I will remember 503 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 3: that look on his face when he told me he 504 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 3: said what it was like. He said, she already had 505 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 3: one foot on the other side, and the mystified look 506 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: on his face. It's not something that is easy to 507 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 3: put aside as oxygen deprivation to the brain. I'll tell 508 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 3: you that. 509 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 4: These experiences are amazing. I mean this. In putting together 510 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 4: this book I feel like I've heard everything and seen everything, 511 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 4: and I discovered that wasn't true. In putting this book together. 512 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 4: One of the things that was very unique to me 513 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 4: is that years ago, if you told her doctor you 514 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 4: were working out a book on near death experiences, many 515 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 4: of them would pooh pooh it. They would deny that 516 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 4: it took place. Now you start to hear stories from physicians. 517 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 4: Many of the stories in this book, we have a 518 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 4: large number of physician stories, and then some of them, 519 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 4: like one that really amazes me is is people who 520 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 4: see a mist coming out of someone who's dying. Because 521 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 4: not only have we spoken to several doctors who has 522 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 4: come out of people who are dying, but the description 523 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 4: of what happens is the same. Is that they'll see 524 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 4: a mist and the mist forms and seems to get 525 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 4: sucked into a tube, are sucked into some hole and 526 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: disappeared through there through the ceiling. I mean, the description 527 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 4: is the same, which is good news because it means 528 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 4: that it's it's a legitimate phenomenon. If it repeats certain elements, 529 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 4: it's a legitimate phenomenon. 530 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I've got to be honest, I'm saying it 531 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 3: most I mean, I just old that walk was that 532 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 3: it presents itself as a mist to us, because a 533 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 3: mist is a symbol of the unknown or the unknowable. 534 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 3: I guess it's clouds themselves, which we now understood. 535 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: You know. 536 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 3: You remember in the eighth grade you learned that that 537 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 3: system of classifying the four types the cumulus and the stratus, 538 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 3: and cyrus and nimbus. And that came about in the 539 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 3: eighteen thirties because up to that time, see, the common 540 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 3: sense was that clouds are unknowable because they unintelligible, efemorable, 541 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: all changeable, and they were the very symbol people. It 542 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: was what the people symbolized unknowability or unintelligibility, that it's unstable. 543 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 3: And because knowledge, by contrast, is something solid and stable, 544 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: so the knowledge of the clouds would by definition be 545 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 3: and people were ridiculed. Up in the clouds we say, 546 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: you know, and in the clouds we still say those things. 547 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 3: That was something utterly unintelligible and beyond reason and knowledge. 548 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 3: Then this guy named Luke Howard who was a pharmacist 549 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 3: and he traveled in his business back and forth. It's 550 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 3: just interested in this got to watching clouds through the 551 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 3: carriage or where we're drawing them. Then he realized, oh 552 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 3: my god, there's different types of some of them are 553 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 3: big empuffs. So he published this paper from a scientific 554 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 3: society he belonged to, and it created a sensation because, 555 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 3: as you can imagine, anybody who cared to read the 556 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: paper and then wanted to walk outside could see was 557 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 3: right right, Because you can all say it for ourselves, 558 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 3: why don't you? And so I think, you know, something 559 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 3: like that has got to happen, because this is so 560 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: what in the world are we dealing with? What they 561 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 3: missed coming out of somebody's body when they die. 562 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: I asked these guys if they thought shared death experiences 563 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: happen because people are in the present moment. We like 564 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: to believe that doctors are in the present moment. 565 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 4: You do have to have a peaceful mind, a present mind, 566 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 4: but you also a lot have to have a lot 567 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 4: of empathy. I think empathy is a real factor and 568 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 4: all these experiences interesting. People with empathy can be in 569 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 4: a room with someone who's dying and they can lend 570 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 4: their empathy to the person, and sometimes other people just 571 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 4: can't do it. They just can't be around someone. 572 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: Who's dying sharing feelings of another is so important in 573 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: life and apparently in depth. Let's go to the break 574 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: and we'll be back. You're listening to Shades of the 575 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 576 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm 577 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain. My book We Don't Die, a skeptics discovery 578 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: of life after death, came out in twenty and thirteen. 579 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, I started We Don't Die Radio, interviewing 580 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: people about why they believed in the afterlife. In the 581 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: beginning of twenty twenty, Tom producer of Coast to Coast AM, 582 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: came to me with an idea to create Shades of 583 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: the Afterlife. As he liked my work. It would be 584 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: a podcast of me reporting on various reasons to believe 585 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: in the afterlife. Shades is now going on three years old, 586 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: and I'm proud of both my podcasts. I know I 587 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: have a different set of listeners for each one, and 588 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: some people listen to both. Every so often. I have 589 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: a guest so spectacular that I feel I need to 590 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: share on both platforms today. I feel the same way. 591 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: What you're listening to now is an edited version of 592 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: a very long video conversation I had with doctor Moody 593 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: and Paul Perry. If you wish to watch the entire thing, 594 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: go to We Don't Die dot com click on the 595 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: radio show page. Trust me, when I think something can 596 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: really make a difference, I want to get it to 597 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: as many people as I can, as fast as I can. 598 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: So let's continue listening to some words by doctor Raymond Moody. 599 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,959 Speaker 3: I tell you it's just a mystery one of person 600 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 3: who almost dies as an experience of seeing another world. 601 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 3: And it's a mystery multiplock when a bunch of people 602 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 3: say in after life that the death of somebody else, 603 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 3: But you know, the reality is, we just don't have 604 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 3: the mind to compute it. My hero of the afterlife 605 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 3: thinking is still David In, the great skeptic who influenced Einstein. 606 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,720 Speaker 3: For example, he was seventeen eleven to seventeen seventy six, 607 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 3: the archetype of the skeptic. He was so skeptic, he said, 608 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 3: as to the impressions which arise from their senses, he said, 609 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 3: it's utterly beyond the rational possibility to determine whether those 610 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 3: things arise from the objects or are from the creative 611 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 3: power of our mind or from the author of our being. 612 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 3: It's like the whole assumption that we live in a 613 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,240 Speaker 3: physical world and that is all a product of consciousness 614 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 3: and inferences about consciousness, and that's the reality. And humans 615 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 3: by the mere light of reason, it seems difficult to 616 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 3: prove the immortality of the soul. Now there's an understatement, 617 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 3: and he went on to say, some new species of 618 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 3: logic is required for that purpose, and some new faculties 619 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 3: of the mind that they may enable us to comprehend 620 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 3: that logic. Now, that is the brute reality. That's the 621 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 3: real that's the fact, no matter what anybody wants to 622 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 3: say or you know it's that's the real fact. And 623 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 3: so you see, it's traditionally been a thought that that's 624 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 3: the end of it. You know that that's impossible to me, 625 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 3: I say, no, absolutely not. We can do it. There 626 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 3: are new ways of thinking logic group, and if you 627 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 3: apply these new principles of logic, you can open faculties 628 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 3: or your mind you didn't know you had, and that 629 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 3: when you put those things together, we can actually prepare 630 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,760 Speaker 3: our minds in advance so that when subsequently we happen 631 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 3: to have it in your death experience, we can come 632 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 3: back and tell everybody else about it in a whole 633 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 3: new way. I guarantee you what I'm saying is, if 634 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,720 Speaker 3: you're curious about the afterlife and all that, just meaning 635 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 3: this book by proof of an effllent. I'm a logician, 636 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 3: you know I've studied proof. There is all different kinds 637 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 3: of proofs. What I want to say here is is 638 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 3: there proof of an effllence? That's what most people want 639 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 3: to know, and from what I have studied and what 640 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,479 Speaker 3: I've listened to lots of people about what they're mean 641 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 3: when they're trying to say what kind of proof do 642 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 3: you want? What I can say is this. I can 643 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 3: say that as a logician person who's taught logic and philosophy, 644 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 3: I can say that it is a rational thing for 645 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 3: you to anticipate that when you die some amazing thing 646 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 3: is going to happen that won't sort of transfer you 647 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 3: into a call different level a round in that. That's 648 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 3: when I'm anticipating, not it's not a matter of believe 649 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 3: in or disbelieve as it is for me. So in 650 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,919 Speaker 3: that sense, yeah, there's a proof there's for those who 651 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 3: are you know, not symbolic logicians or whatever, but just 652 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 3: ordinary folks wanting to know is there a rational basis 653 00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 3: for this? Say absolutely, absolutely, Paul. 654 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: What do you have to say about that? 655 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 4: Well, I heartily concur with that, and I know I 656 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 4: did want to mention that there's a lot of people 657 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 4: who want to know how to access Heaven's Gate, if 658 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 4: you will, and one of the theories they've come up with 659 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 4: is the theory of background information. And what that says 660 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 4: is is that on a daily basis, we're hit by thousands, 661 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 4: if not millions, of bits of information. You know, everything 662 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 4: for everything you see visually, to everything you read, all 663 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 4: your opinions, your own self talk and other people's talk, 664 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 4: and that what happens when people reach the state of 665 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 4: having an afterlife open up to them is that somehow 666 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 4: all of this background information, the unnecessary information, has cleared 667 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 4: out of their mind and they're able to focus on 668 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 4: the real background information, which is what happens to us 669 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 4: on a supernatural way. To do that, many people have 670 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,879 Speaker 4: done deep meditations, they've done dark room meditations, things like that, 671 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 4: and there's still a long way to go and figure 672 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 4: out how to access this afterlife, if you will, But 673 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 4: that's one theory of it that once you clean out 674 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 4: the background information, you have an open gate if you will. 675 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 3: I like it. 676 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: What's the psycho manteum? 677 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 3: Well, that's something I found out about when I was 678 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 3: eighteen years old, which I thought was ogwash. I am 679 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 3: a great fan of the Greeks, and when I was 680 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 3: eighteen I had a great course reading Herodotus, the history 681 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 3: these ancient Greek oracles of the Dad. They wrote about 682 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 3: they had places where you could go, where you go 683 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,040 Speaker 3: through procedures and you would seem to see and talk 684 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 3: to deceased relatives. And so, to make a very long 685 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 3: story short, I also studied psychiatry and in altered states 686 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 3: of consciousness. I had been studying for some time the 687 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 3: phenomenon where if you have a vacant space in your 688 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 3: vision will feel like a glittering space or a clear depth. 689 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,320 Speaker 3: They call it like you can take a silver bowl 690 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 3: and highly polish it on the inside, fill it with 691 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 3: olive oil, and then in a darkened room you gaze 692 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 3: by candlelight or some low illumination, you gaze into that. 693 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 3: And many people under those circumstances I have these hypnogogic 694 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 3: visions where they see this very lifelike, not like mental imagery, 695 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 3: but very lifelike, three dimensional visions. And I had known 696 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 3: about that, and I experimented with my psychology students. But 697 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five six seven, I are found in 698 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 3: an archaeological journal that an archaeologist I already knew about 699 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:03,879 Speaker 3: Ceterios Docors, he was very famous Greek classical archaeologist, had 700 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 3: rediscovered this place the oracle of the dead, and it 701 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 3: excavated it based on what they found there was in 702 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 3: the apparition chamber. They found a large cauldron, bronze cauldron, 703 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 3: and it was surrounded by a balustrae. This was obviously 704 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 3: a place you saw the visions, and there's torch marks 705 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,280 Speaker 3: on the wall showing it was illuminated. You stayed down 706 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,840 Speaker 3: there for twenty nine days talking about the person who died. 707 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 3: So then you went into a cut stone maze and 708 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 3: complete darkness, felt your way into this chamber and they 709 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 3: are gazing into this you saw the apparitions setarios hadn't 710 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 3: figured that part out. I had figured that party out, 711 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 3: and so I went to his place in ninety three 712 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 3: or something ninety four and I told him about No. 713 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 3: I think what it is is this because I recreated 714 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 3: it by then, and he said, yeah, like then he realized. 715 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,399 Speaker 3: He showed me some books that people saying he had 716 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 3: just never put two and two together, but I tried 717 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 3: it out. You just set up a room where there's 718 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 3: a mirror. Bad. It's a darkened room, but the mirror 719 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 3: is placed higher than your line of visions, so you 720 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 3: don't see your reflection. The room is dark and you 721 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 3: don't see reflections. There's a gentle light behind you. Illuminated 722 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 3: this gently. But the primary thing is the preparation, Like 723 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 3: you think about talk about with your friend, like the 724 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 3: person who died, what was this person? Like? What are 725 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 3: your best memories? What are your sticking points in the relationships. 726 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 3: So then after this preparation, you go in there and 727 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 3: you just gaze into the mirror, and people have extraordinary things. 728 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 3: I was not expecting what the result. I was my 729 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 3: graduate students of psychology then time went. But my medical colleagues, 730 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 3: a psychiatry colleague, and a clinical psychologist colleague, and a 731 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 3: sociology colleague and an aneshesiologist were my subjects. And these 732 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 3: were people who were informed about the mind. So I 733 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 3: figured that anybody that did have a vision that said yeah, ray, 734 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 3: when I saw my grandma or was it real or 735 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 3: wasn't That was what I was expecting. But imagine my 736 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 3: surprise when my colleagues and graduate students came out of 737 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,280 Speaker 3: there not saying I saw them, but yeah, I talked 738 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,320 Speaker 3: to my grandma, and it was startling to me. It 739 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 3: was a way. I mean, I had no idea of 740 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 3: what I tapped into. And what people say is that 741 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,839 Speaker 3: some say the image appears in the mirror. Others say that, yeah, 742 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 3: the image appears in the mirror, but then the image 743 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 3: comes out into the room. 744 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: Their book, Proof of Life after Life Seven Reasons to 745 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: Believe there is an Afterlife has instructions about setting up 746 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: your own psychomantium. Also remember to visit doctor Moody site 747 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: Life Afterlife dot com and Paul Perry Productions dot com. 748 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: And visit us at we Dondie dot com. Click on 749 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,800 Speaker 1: the radio show page, come to a free Sunday gathering, 750 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: take a medium class with us, and more. I'm Sandra Champlain. 751 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 752 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network. 753 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 754 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 755 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,399 Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 756 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:58,879 Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com