1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,560
Speaker 1: Now Here's a Highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 1: Walter Bosley spent twenty years in US national security and

3
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Speaker 1: has now been a specialty publisher approaching twenty years. Walter's

4
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: first on fiction book was an investigation into the esoteric

5
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: engineering of Disneyland. He has since written several more on

6
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: subjects ranging from occult serial murders, the nineteenth century airship mysteries,

7
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: Mkultra and the US Air Force, lost cities in South America, breakaways, civilizations,

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 1: templar vaults in America, and the mystery of Napoleon Bonaparte

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 1: and more. He's appeared on Ancient Aliens, Beyond Belief and

10
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: National Park Mysteries. Todd Wood has always been interested in

11
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,239
Speaker 1: the strange and bizarre. He started getting interested in the

12
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,560
Speaker 1: Ingersoll Lockwood Baron Trump stories from before the turn of

13
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: the twentieth century around twenty sixteen, when he started doing

14
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: his own research from newspaper archives mostly and together Todd

15
00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,440
Speaker 1: Wood and Walter Bosley have penned the Mystery of Ingersaul Lockwood.

16
00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: Todd Walter, both of you, welcome to Coast to Coast.

17
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: How are you good? How are you doing? Terrific? Thank

18
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: you all things consider good to be here. That's wonderful,

19
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 1: good good. How did you two meet and discover that

20
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: you were both fascinated by the mystery of Ingersoll Lockwood. Well,

21
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: I kind of started getting into it, looking into the

22
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,000
Speaker 1: Holling your Soul Lockwood thing, and then I discovered Walter

23
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 1: Bosley before I started getting into the INGR soul lock

24
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,600
Speaker 1: with him because of the twenty fifteen Secret Space Program

25
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 1: conference in Texas and his presentation, and then I found

26
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,319
Speaker 1: his live stream and we just sort of started corresponding

27
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: through the chat, and then then the phone and one

28
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 1: thing sort of led to another, and due to my

29
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: vision issues I have macular degeneration. He helped me do

30
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: the book and here we are. And it is fascinating

31
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 1: that if it weren't for the election of Donald Trump

32
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 1: and in twenty sixteen, Ingersoll Lockwood would probably have remained

33
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:21,640
Speaker 1: in total obscurity. Do we know who sort of rediscovered

34
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 1: Ingersoll Lockwood in in the aftermath of the twenty sixteen election?

35
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 1: O personally, I'm not sure. I just sort of heard

36
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: about it online and then I sort of looked started

37
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 1: looking into it from there. All right, it's the whole

38
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 1: thing kind of emerged from a combined effort of you

39
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,679
Speaker 1: know more than you know how these things happen. Sometimes

40
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,079
Speaker 1: more than one person can just hit that zype guist

41
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,480
Speaker 1: of something and it just emerged. So either of you

42
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,359
Speaker 1: or both of you combine, give give listeners a brief

43
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 1: biographical sketch of Ingersoll Lockwood. In other words, who was

44
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 1: he before he wrote these obscure novels. Well, he was

45
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: a diplomat. He was consult to the Kingdom of Hanover

46
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 1: from eighteen sixty two to eighteen sixty five. He was

47
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,000
Speaker 1: appointed to that position by Abraham Lincoln. He was one

48
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,079
Speaker 1: of the youngest diplomats. He was a Yale graduate, speaking

49
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,960
Speaker 1: of skull and bones, right, yell right. He was a lawyer,

50
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: and he was an author. So the novels in question,

51
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 1: and there are there are three that we're going to

52
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 1: focus on, obviously. So we have his first one, Travels

53
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: and Adventures of Little Baron Trump and his Wonderful Dog

54
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 1: is it Bulger or Bulger? That was written in eighteen

55
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: eighty nine, and then Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey from

56
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety three, and then of course the dystopian novel

57
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,760
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred or The Last President, which was written in

58
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety six. Let's talk about the first two for

59
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 1: a moment, Travels and Adventures of Little Baron Trump and

60
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 1: his Wonderful Dog Bulger and Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey. Um.

61
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 1: Were these at all inspired by uh? Uh, Frank Baum's

62
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz? Or Um? There was the Adventures

63
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 1: of Baron Baron von Munchausen. Um. Were these were his

64
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,479
Speaker 1: works inspired by those? Or did they come before? Um?

65
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: I believe they came before. I think I believe that

66
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:43,880
Speaker 1: Ingrishil Lockwood's books um inspired Frank Baum's books? Is it?

67
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Walter? Yeah, That's that's how I wouldcall it. Um.

68
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 1: It was interesting Lockwood's books, like other authors, that there

69
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,680
Speaker 1: was this genre that was emerging where there were some

70
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: very similar things that I said, all these similar things

71
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,640
Speaker 1: were indeed influenced by Baron Munkhausen, of course, and Bomb

72
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 1: he came when that was already you know, going midstream.

73
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: In fact, around nineteen hundred, I believe, is when he

74
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: released his first Wizard of Oz book, his first OZ book,

75
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 1: I should say, so, Lockwood was you know, ahead of

76
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 1: the curve on that one compared to bomb right, And

77
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: I guess as you're writing your book The Mystery of

78
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,720
Speaker 1: Ingersel Lockwood, critics at the time, I don't know, they

79
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 1: kind of were dismissive of these works. They called them

80
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 1: somewhat tedious. But what we're really focusing on here tonight, obviously,

81
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 1: are these these intersections of our points of interest relating

82
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: to what is being depicted in these novels, And of

83
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 1: course occurred almost one hundred years later with President Trump

84
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 1: and also his son Baron Trump. So if you could

85
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 1: just briefly give us some of examples of how the

86
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,359
Speaker 1: works of Ingersoll Lockwood and the Travels and Adventure of

87
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 1: Little Baron Trump and Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey, how

88
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 1: they seem to to be prescient of President Donald Trump

89
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,320
Speaker 1: and his son Baron well, um, other than the obvious.

90
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 1: One thing is Baron Trump picks a journey to Russia

91
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 1: of all places and the Marvelous Underground Adventure book to

92
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 1: the Ural Mountains, and he finds a he goes and

93
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 1: he's on a journey. He's looking for like a world

94
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,719
Speaker 1: within worlds, and he sort of finds that inside the

95
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 1: Ural Mountains and as you know, as we've talked about

96
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 1: on your show, Donald Trump's affinity for East cern European women,

97
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: amongst other things, the finer things in life. Of course,

98
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: that part in those stories could also have predicted the

99
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 1: troubles that Donald Trump had with all the turmoil about

100
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, his relationship with today's Russia, the false accusations

101
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,600
Speaker 1: about that relationship with Russia and all that stuff that's um,

102
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a big pop boiling issue during

103
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 1: his time in office. So it's thematically predictive in that sense, right,

104
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: And see the ancestry or the lineage of Ingersoll Lockwood's

105
00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 1: Baron Trump, does that also mirror Donald Trump's lineage the past?

106
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: This one to Walter, I think this is more in

107
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 1: his will house than me. Well, looks interesting about Donald

108
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: Trump is that, you know, of course his mother was

109
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: from Scotland, and there of course is the interesting templar

110
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 1: history with Scotland. And there is also that issue that

111
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 1: not only has particular researchers pointed out that just about

112
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,319
Speaker 1: every president of the United States, or several of them,

113
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: were related to each other. Apparently all of them have

114
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 1: a royal ancestor. And I believe in most cases it's

115
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 1: the one guy, it's a particular king. But so you

116
00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 1: have possibly through his mother that linked to a dynasty,

117
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, a monarchy of sorts. And you also have

118
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 1: the hint of you know, is there a templar connection

119
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,440
Speaker 1: in Donald Trump's past? And we of course know that

120
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 1: through freemasonry. The lore and the legend is that the

121
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 1: United States was really founded by templar guided principles, if

122
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:31,520
Speaker 1: not templars themselves. So that's definitely in the mix. And

123
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: so I think in the stories, the fact that you

124
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 1: know his title is Barren, not his proper name. You know, again,

125
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:46,520
Speaker 1: this is another hint. It's as if Lockwood saw Trump obliquely.

126
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:54,320
Speaker 1: And what we have to do is recognize how to

127
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 1: interpret what's in the Lockwood books. And I think, as

128
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,480
Speaker 1: Todd said earlier, other than the obvious, I think most

129
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,200
Speaker 1: of it is pretty obvious when you look at it

130
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,400
Speaker 1: from the thematic oblique manner. Right. I'm just looking at

131
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 1: some of the again, some of the specific parallels. Because

132
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,559
Speaker 1: President Trump's ancestry, at least on his father's side, I

133
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 1: think his paternal grandfather came from Germany. In the Lockwood story,

134
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:30,200
Speaker 1: isn't Baron Trump born in Germany. He's actually born in Africa,

135
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: in Samoya on the mountains of the Moon. Ah. All right,

136
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 1: but there is a German connection here, I think somewhere,

137
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 1: is there not? Yeah? There is, Um, there's a and

138
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,319
Speaker 1: his family, there's a night the knight was that didn't

139
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,800
Speaker 1: have any arms in the book, right, and he was

140
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 1: a Teutonic Knight, and that might that might be the

141
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 1: German connection A right, yeah, almost suggesting you know, go ahead,

142
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: we were talking about with a Templar connection, because the

143
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 1: Teutonic Knights, of course were the Germanic Holy Roman Empire

144
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: counterpart to the Templars. And again the child hero Baron

145
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 1: Trump in the Inkersall Lockwood story, Um, how did he earn?

146
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 1: How did he make his money? Is there any parallel

147
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:35,960
Speaker 1: there to President Trump? M? Well, you got me, stump,

148
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:42,000
Speaker 1: because I actually don't remember other Famley of course, being

149
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 1: wealthy and being of title. Being of title means land

150
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:54,679
Speaker 1: usually right, and Trump is a real estate So uh,

151
00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: there's the you know, the little thematic connection there. One again.

152
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

153
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,280
Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

154
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 1: dot com for more