Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Cowboys. Are you ready
Speaker 1: for a break? Yes? Are you ready for a break? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Ready for a break? Yeah, and so much for that.
Speaker 1: It's time for the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: with Nick Eatman, David Hellman, and bar Garcia and Derek Eagleton. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: welcome back to Cowboys Break. I remember Garcia? You heard
Speaker 1: in the intro? Who else is the cast on this showing? On? Nick? David,
Speaker 1: Derek over here? This is season eighteen, yeah, le eighteen wow,
Speaker 1: eighteen seasons? What what's all that? We're legal for adults. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's a different kind of legal. It just doesn't see.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna punt on that. I just don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about it. You're legal to go to the military.
Speaker 1: You can join the army at eighteen. You can vote
Speaker 1: for the country. Alright, alright, Episode four five five? Okay
Speaker 1: you were nicky? Okay, whoa wow? Alight on it? There
Speaker 1: you go like one of those flights where the turbulence
Speaker 1: starts the minute it up. I'll have some more turbulence
Speaker 1: for you though. Okay, Um, we do have the draft
Speaker 1: coming up around the corner. Sure do we have things
Speaker 1: to talk about. But before we get into that, I
Speaker 1: figure we'll get the news out of the way. I mean,
Speaker 1: some pretty serious, big news. But do you have to
Speaker 1: talk about it? All? Right? Well, it's fun like when
Speaker 1: you're in the weekly format. You know, it's so much
Speaker 1: has been said already about that situation. You forget we
Speaker 1: haven't had a show since then. We have not, so
Speaker 1: we do kind of figure we do have to kind
Speaker 1: of discuss it a little bit. Unfortunately, we do pretty serious,
Speaker 1: major stuff. But I'm sure by now a lot of
Speaker 1: the listeners have already heard the news and the things
Speaker 1: that's going on currently with Kelvin Joseph, which we did
Speaker 1: discuss last week, as you know, a quick evaluation of
Speaker 1: how he was drafted and how he was looking at
Speaker 1: all that. But he's currently going under some pretty serious
Speaker 1: investigation as of right now. We don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of the details. We've heard some things around the media
Speaker 1: and things like that, but I mean it's involving homicide
Speaker 1: that happened in the FW so he's currently being investigated
Speaker 1: by the police. But I guess I'm gonna just leave
Speaker 1: it open to you guys on what's going on with
Speaker 1: him and what this means for the team and if
Speaker 1: the Cowboys are expected to make any kind of move
Speaker 1: right now. I know maybe you're waiting on what happens legally,
Speaker 1: but I think that's the thing you is, just what
Speaker 1: happens legally. That's what Stephen Jones. He talked a lot
Speaker 1: less about it, honestly than you just did. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I say that because he's not trying to talk
Speaker 1: about it a lot right now, and and and they
Speaker 1: are not saying hide behind the legal part of because
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what it is. You just don't have
Speaker 1: you open yourself up for more issues when you when
Speaker 1: you try to talk, you know about something that don't
Speaker 1: really know. We know this, it's being investigated. We also
Speaker 1: know that he was he's continuing to do the things
Speaker 1: for the team that he's supposed to do. He's part
Speaker 1: of the offseason workouts. He was here, Um, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's been here every day. They don't take
Speaker 1: attendance like that. They'll share the attendance voluntary for us,
Speaker 1: it's voluntary. It means he means you show up if
Speaker 1: you're if you're in the in the news for the
Speaker 1: wrong reasons, you better show up. That's usually what it means,
Speaker 1: I would think. But um, you know, well, we'll see,
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens and whether it changes any kind
Speaker 1: of offseason draft strategy. Let me say real quick though,
Speaker 1: we do have to now I want to acknowledge. Sure
Speaker 1: it was a person that died here. And I know
Speaker 1: sometimes you can get caught up in the conversation talking
Speaker 1: about football, but this man, camera ray Is is no
Speaker 1: longer living because of what happened that night. And regardless
Speaker 1: of what Kelvin Joseph's involvement is in that or not,
Speaker 1: a man is still dead. And so we want to
Speaker 1: you know, obviously his fist family, you know, you have
Speaker 1: thoughts for them and and you know, want to make
Speaker 1: sure they're okay. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: football takes a backseat to this because there's a man
Speaker 1: that's dead, you know. So yeah, that's I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a that's a weird situation, even as far as that
Speaker 1: stuff goes, because like the information that we have, I mean,
Speaker 1: the information that his lawyer was willing to share, it
Speaker 1: is like he was there that night. We know that
Speaker 1: he was there didn't come to light for a month,
Speaker 1: and then he talks to the Dallas police. Don't want
Speaker 1: to for too much from that, but two arrests were
Speaker 1: made within two days of that conversation happening. Have a
Speaker 1: feeling that's not a coincidence. Hasn't been charged with the crime,
Speaker 1: and he maintains that he was in any way the shooter.
Speaker 1: He is not shoot anyone. That's what he maintains, or
Speaker 1: his attorney has maintained. There has been no charges, there
Speaker 1: have been there's been no arrest. I completely understand the
Speaker 1: point of view of anybody that's like, oh, it still
Speaker 1: sounds pretty gross all things, if you just take the
Speaker 1: totality of it again, this comes to light a month later.
Speaker 1: I understand if you still have some misgivings about what's
Speaker 1: going on there. But to the point Nick just kind
Speaker 1: of made is the Cowboys are going to wait and
Speaker 1: see how this plays out. Are there going to be
Speaker 1: legal actions toward Kelvin? Is there going to be NFL
Speaker 1: disciplinary action? We have no idea about that either. And
Speaker 1: it's ironic, and yeah, you're so right. I mean, it
Speaker 1: feels gross to even talk about stuff like the draft
Speaker 1: when somebody was killed, But the fact that it happens
Speaker 1: a week before the draft just throws all of that
Speaker 1: into further light where it's like, well, do we need
Speaker 1: to be thinking about this when we're in the war
Speaker 1: room trying to figure out what we need to do
Speaker 1: with our picks on Thursday and Friday? Um, well, that
Speaker 1: was gonna be my next question. Two part question really,
Speaker 1: one is, regardless of the legal outcome of the situation,
Speaker 1: the fact that his name is tied to something as
Speaker 1: severe as this, do you expect or think that the
Speaker 1: Cowboys will make some kind of move there or And
Speaker 1: the second part or sorry is like Dave said, and
Speaker 1: you mentioned also Nick, how does that affect the draft
Speaker 1: and what you start looking at as far as the
Speaker 1: position itself. Yeah, if you would have asked me a
Speaker 1: week ago that that very question about Kelvin Joseph, my
Speaker 1: answer would not change. I don't think he's done anything
Speaker 1: on the field to let you say that, oh, we
Speaker 1: don't have to draft a corner because we got him.
Speaker 1: When you look at the position, just a little bit
Speaker 1: more uncertainty for the future comes out. You know, what
Speaker 1: what happens with Anthony Brown next year? His contract is up.
Speaker 1: I believe Jordan Lewis still has another year, but it's
Speaker 1: a year they could get out of if they wanted to.
Speaker 1: And then, of course Kelvin Joseph's you know, he hasn't
Speaker 1: proven anything yet on the field, so you know, I
Speaker 1: think there's a good corner you wanted to take. You
Speaker 1: would take him regardless of this situation either way, because
Speaker 1: you know you always did need good corners, especially in
Speaker 1: the future. It looks a little uncertain. Yeah, and I'll
Speaker 1: say this too. I mean it, and I'm just speaking
Speaker 1: for myself. This is not the organization's take. I don't
Speaker 1: know what their take is on this, but me personally,
Speaker 1: reading the things that I read about Kelvin Joseph coming
Speaker 1: in the door when the Cowboys drafted him, I was
Speaker 1: already a bit skeptical of like the who he was
Speaker 1: off the field and remind the people aside from the rap, No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't even that, like I have no problem with
Speaker 1: guys having a life outside of football. That doesn't bother
Speaker 1: me at all. It was the fact that he was
Speaker 1: at LSU and then he wasn't the issue. He was
Speaker 1: at Kentucky and they were like, yeah, we're good. You
Speaker 1: kind of just go on and do your thing, right.
Speaker 1: It just the fact that there was there seemed to
Speaker 1: be this cloud of just like and this guy I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know. And so I'm not saying, like, again,
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with a guy that has
Speaker 1: a rap career on a problem with a guy who
Speaker 1: has other interests outside of football. I just thought that
Speaker 1: when he was first drafted, I had a little bit
Speaker 1: of skepticism. And Nick's even talked about on this show, like,
Speaker 1: and you've made reference to it. I don't know how
Speaker 1: many fans picked up on it, but Nick, you've used
Speaker 1: it the term. I'm more concerned about, like, what does
Speaker 1: he do in these months? Like that's gonna tell me
Speaker 1: a lot about Kelvin. Joseph was talking about the offseason.
Speaker 1: I know what you're getting at. It's like, when you're
Speaker 1: away from football, are you doing the things that you
Speaker 1: need to be doing to be ready to play and
Speaker 1: available to play when football comes back around. And so
Speaker 1: I think there's a level of skepticism in my mind.
Speaker 1: I don't know how the organization feels about that. I
Speaker 1: wonder if this advances that or not, how they view
Speaker 1: it and how they viewed him coming in the door
Speaker 1: where they also like, hey, you know how they do
Speaker 1: a second round picks Scott has a lot of talent,
Speaker 1: will take a little bit of a chance on him,
Speaker 1: and and and we'll just kind of see where we go.
Speaker 1: I really don't know if the organization or how they
Speaker 1: feel about felt about him coming in and how that much,
Speaker 1: how much that has changed after this incident. That's the
Speaker 1: disappointing thing. And I ironically I said this last week
Speaker 1: about a cornerback, Jordan Lewis. We were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: he came in with with the domestic violence issues, and
Speaker 1: and that seems so crazy. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: we don't know these guys right, at least not as well,
Speaker 1: not well enough to just make these concrete statements about
Speaker 1: who they are as people. M kelvin was a unique
Speaker 1: circumstance because of my ties to LSU, Like, I had
Speaker 1: many conversations with people who know him a hell of
Speaker 1: a lot better than I did, and the word back
Speaker 1: that I always got was like he is a good kid.
Speaker 1: His sense of priorities and his pension for getting wrapped
Speaker 1: up in the wrong things. Yes, they speak for himself,
Speaker 1: They themselves like he went m I A from LSU's
Speaker 1: program in the spring of like eighteen or I think
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. He just like disappeared and
Speaker 1: just stuff like that. And again, I don't want to
Speaker 1: speak out of turn about what happened at this nightclub,
Speaker 1: but the details that we have make it sound like
Speaker 1: he got caught up in the wrong crowd and the
Speaker 1: wrong situation. And again, what we keep hearing is like,
Speaker 1: he did not fire a gun. He did not do that.
Speaker 1: But you were there, your decisions led you to this point.
Speaker 1: You allowed yourself to get caught up in that, and
Speaker 1: it speaks to that idea of like maybe you are
Speaker 1: not a bad person, but your critical thinking and your
Speaker 1: your judgment and all of that stuff can be very
Speaker 1: fairly called into question. And uh, that's not what's Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually that's the thing. Like you, Kyle was saying,
Speaker 1: we're looking at you know, we're further investigation, and you can,
Speaker 1: we can keep investigating this all you want to, but
Speaker 1: facts remain. This is that it's not what you did,
Speaker 1: it's what you did not do. That's that's that's not debatable.
Speaker 1: You were there and you didn't call You didn't you
Speaker 1: didn't let anybody know for for almost a month. That
Speaker 1: is a problem your decision making is that that's an
Speaker 1: issue that's always going to be there. So you know,
Speaker 1: let me say one more thing too. There are people
Speaker 1: I'm sure fans are like that. I just get rid
Speaker 1: of them. There are people I think in this building
Speaker 1: that think that way as well, but who knows where
Speaker 1: you know the real decision makers what they think. And
Speaker 1: I'll say this, just because it hasn't happened right now
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it will not. I think it's important for
Speaker 1: the cowboys to figure out that the entire story, see
Speaker 1: where things are going from there. But I don't think
Speaker 1: it's well, if he hasn't been released, he won't be
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true, but I don't. My gut
Speaker 1: tells me that probably won't happen. Yeah, that's just what
Speaker 1: I think. I think he will, but I lean toward
Speaker 1: that too. But yeah, that's it just feels like a
Speaker 1: weird limbo where we really probably haven't seen the end
Speaker 1: of this story and it could go either way, which
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not going to get up on
Speaker 1: the table and proclaim what they should or shouldn't do,
Speaker 1: but like I said at the top, like I don't
Speaker 1: blame anybody that is sitting at home, like, yeah, even
Speaker 1: if I don't have all the facts, Like it sounds
Speaker 1: like this guy sat on this for a month and
Speaker 1: that feels gross to me. I don't blame you if
Speaker 1: you feel that way at all. I just hope that
Speaker 1: he learns a lesson that my dad used to tell
Speaker 1: me when I was a kid, which is, you are
Speaker 1: always going to be judged by the people you hang around,
Speaker 1: So be thoughtful about who you hang around, because even
Speaker 1: if you don't do anything, let's say assume he did
Speaker 1: nothing wrong, let's say in this situation, the fact is
Speaker 1: he's still not wrapped up in it because of the
Speaker 1: character of the people that were with him. So hopefully
Speaker 1: he learns that lesson, and this is a good life
Speaker 1: lesson frame regardless of what happens with the case, regardless
Speaker 1: of what happens with the cowboys. Hopefully it's a good
Speaker 1: life lesson for him to know. You know, I might
Speaker 1: need to choose better people run with, you know, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to be out and about, I need to
Speaker 1: choose people that I think represent the same kind of
Speaker 1: values that I represent, and That's a tough thing because
Speaker 1: it's not only what you do with your personal friends
Speaker 1: and who you hang out outside of work, but you're
Speaker 1: he's surrounded by people here, and people here are going
Speaker 1: to be surrounded by him. So it's also that does
Speaker 1: impact your locker room, your group, your defensive backs. So
Speaker 1: you want to ensure that you have those tight groups,
Speaker 1: but make it the right kind of tight group. You know,
Speaker 1: the right people around yourself where you're gonna take an
Speaker 1: early break. When we come back, I want to start
Speaker 1: getting into the draft and some of the positions of
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Speaker 1: Before there was a draft. You get size up a
Speaker 1: cowboy by three simple factors. The crease at his hat,
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Speaker 1: back to the Break. I do not want us to
Speaker 1: sound like a broken record on this show, but how
Speaker 1: to say it. I'm still kind of amazed, surprised and
Speaker 1: with my eyes open and scratching my head at the
Speaker 1: fact that you haven't brought some free agency help into
Speaker 1: the building to kind of add some depth, some experience,
Speaker 1: specifically talking about the O line and more specifically keep
Speaker 1: talking the guard position of the Dallas Cowboys. We know
Speaker 1: that you want to go into the draft with some
Speaker 1: kind of depth in there, so that you're not necessarily
Speaker 1: forced to grab a position because you really really need it.
Speaker 1: So I want to open up the questions to you guys.
Speaker 1: And Stephen Jones was talking about to the media and
Speaker 1: one of the things that he mentioned when he was
Speaker 1: asked about a guard he referenced um Sach Martin and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we love to have a guy like Sak Martin, Zach
Speaker 1: Martin on the team, which is great anytime you can
Speaker 1: find Hall of famers, great business. So but it's not
Speaker 1: that easy. So I just want to talk about and
Speaker 1: ask you guys, like, what the heck, what the heck
Speaker 1: right now? What the heck with the guard position? This
Speaker 1: is not a real surprise when you think about it,
Speaker 1: Like what the guard market is is not what the
Speaker 1: cowboys like, Like they want Zach Martin, cool, good approach.
Speaker 1: But the guy that they pushed with two hands out
Speaker 1: the door got a seven million a year contract. So
Speaker 1: anybody else that's been pushed out the door by their
Speaker 1: respective teams is probably wanting something like that and they're like, no,
Speaker 1: we that's not what we want to pay. They want
Speaker 1: a bargain shop. But Connor Williams is making seven million
Speaker 1: a year, so it doesn't make it. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is not surprising that they don't like what's out there
Speaker 1: because they want it cheaper, and those guys are like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm better than him. I find it very surprising. I
Speaker 1: disagree because I am surprised too, But like, who do
Speaker 1: you think they should sign? They immuly don't want the
Speaker 1: guys that are out there because they've never stopped They've
Speaker 1: never let the fact that a guy's not good stop
Speaker 1: them from signing somebody in free agency. Like that's what
Speaker 1: they do. They scrape the bottom of the barrel and say, well,
Speaker 1: at least this guy has played tie and Secki was
Speaker 1: not in high demand last year. Neither was I can
Speaker 1: never remember the dude's name, the swing tackle Cam or
Speaker 1: tie cam irving thank you m Yeah, Like they they've
Speaker 1: never failed to find a nine hundred thousand dollars vet
Speaker 1: that they can come. They're like, hey, he's not actually good,
Speaker 1: but at least he's played in the NFL. Who are
Speaker 1: they actually saying that too when they go hards But like,
Speaker 1: let's say that they get that guy, whoever he is,
Speaker 1: they signed him, they signed him last week, and then
Speaker 1: they draft the corner of the guard in the first round, Like, then,
Speaker 1: what do you do with that guy? Got him swing
Speaker 1: swing guard center or or you cut him? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: decide whether you want him or go to we go
Speaker 1: to camp with Kenyan Green, this old guy, uh Connor
Speaker 1: McGovern and Matt Farniac and we cut whoever sucks them.
Speaker 1: But she just signed that guy after the drift. Now,
Speaker 1: and that's I agree with you. I want to be like,
Speaker 1: I agree with what you're saying. I just find it
Speaker 1: shocking because it is a noticeable departure from what they
Speaker 1: usually do. And that's I spent two weeks saying and like, well,
Speaker 1: you know they're not done because they haven't. They haven't
Speaker 1: added the guy who sucks. That's what they do. They
Speaker 1: go get the guy that sucks, and then they sell
Speaker 1: us on him for a few weeks and then they
Speaker 1: draft the new guy. That's what they do for nothing
Speaker 1: else than just making sure other teams can't say, well
Speaker 1: they gotta get somebody sad you jump over him in
Speaker 1: the draft. Like that's the part that's surprising to me
Speaker 1: is they're not setting themselves up to not get jumped
Speaker 1: by someone, which just makes me think that I'm just
Speaker 1: think maybe they want to be jumped, maybe Jared. All
Speaker 1: the guards are gone, receiver, Sorry, Ted, but they took
Speaker 1: its strategy. It's just it is. It's it's a departure
Speaker 1: from what they usually do. And you're right, like the
Speaker 1: price was high, but there were guys like I would
Speaker 1: have I would have bet my life. No, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have bet my life. I say that too often. I'm
Speaker 1: not betting my life over what the Cowboys doing free agent.
Speaker 1: But like wi Will Hernandez he signed with Arizona. Jermina
Speaker 1: Fetti was another guy they kind of fit the mold
Speaker 1: of like that guy who was kind of disappointing but
Speaker 1: you could probably sign for less. And when that didn't happen,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I guess they're content to go
Speaker 1: into the draft, and I think Nick's right. If they
Speaker 1: don't get what they need, then I think they'll sign
Speaker 1: that guy. But what concerns me about that is is
Speaker 1: it gonna match up with what they want or what
Speaker 1: they need like they are or are they going to
Speaker 1: draft some guy and then go sit up there and
Speaker 1: pat themselves on the back for what a good job
Speaker 1: they did, when really they reached because they knew they
Speaker 1: needed a guard, right and they're just hoping that we
Speaker 1: never find out about it, and he's gotta play, and
Speaker 1: he's got to play. Yeah, Like that's exactly right. The
Speaker 1: two names to know are Zion Johnson out of Boston
Speaker 1: College and Kenyan Green out of Texas A and M.
Speaker 1: Those are the guards. Zion can play a little bit
Speaker 1: of center for what that's worth, But those are the
Speaker 1: guys that you would be drafting to fill that spot.
Speaker 1: And that's fine. I've heard there even questions about them.
Speaker 1: Is that are Yeah, when you're picking twenty four, I know,
Speaker 1: but but sometimes you can get a guard a little
Speaker 1: later because of how their value and there may be
Speaker 1: a little less in the way of questions. But I
Speaker 1: heard there's some pretty interesting questions about both of them.
Speaker 1: Green didn't test great his film. I mean, he's had
Speaker 1: a fantastic college career. He's played four or the five
Speaker 1: positions on the line. Zion, I think people wonder about
Speaker 1: his strength, but he tested very well. But to your point,
Speaker 1: I think it's a lock that at least one of
Speaker 1: those guys has a second round grade, if not both. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's normal, Like that's normal when you're picking twenty fourth.
Speaker 1: But the question comes in when somebody else will just
Speaker 1: use a receiver because that's the other position, like if
Speaker 1: Jamison Williams or Chris olav or Garrett Wilson or even
Speaker 1: Traylan Burkes. Like if if they have a better grade
Speaker 1: on that guy and they draft the guard with the
Speaker 1: lesser grade because they need him, that's bad drafting exactly,
Speaker 1: And that's what would upset me, which is also why
Speaker 1: they don't, like they're not going to let their graft
Speaker 1: grades be known because then they can tell us that
Speaker 1: Zion was the best guy on their board when it
Speaker 1: really wasn't true. Well, Jerry Jones a few weeks ago
Speaker 1: he did mention the fact that he is very open
Speaker 1: to trading, whether that's up or down, So that is
Speaker 1: still a possibility. And now speaking about I know you
Speaker 1: mentioned two names, but about the talent itself, like if
Speaker 1: you were to drive to trade up, are you specifically
Speaker 1: going to a guard and draft a guard or is
Speaker 1: the talent okay if you wait until like let's say
Speaker 1: a second round guy, because you have at this point
Speaker 1: we keep talking about it, you have to get some
Speaker 1: help at card. Yeah, along that line, let me go
Speaker 1: back to the to the last part because I actually disagree.
Speaker 1: Now that I really think about it, I don't think
Speaker 1: it is bad drafting at this point. I don't think draft.
Speaker 1: I think if there's a receiver that's rated a little
Speaker 1: higher than the guard, I'm okay taking the guard about
Speaker 1: a lot higher. Well, I mean, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I mean by that, And I know what you're saying,
Speaker 1: like a little bit if they're fairly comfortable, I agree
Speaker 1: with you. But what happens when where is that markup?
Speaker 1: If you've got a guy that yeah, okay, and that's
Speaker 1: that's fine. I mean, like a receiver you think is
Speaker 1: going to be in the top ten and he falls down,
Speaker 1: you know, or to twenty four. But but to me, like, okay,
Speaker 1: you draft this guy, like if he's going to be
Speaker 1: better than Ceedee Lamb, then that makes sense. But if
Speaker 1: he's not going to be better than then like Michael
Speaker 1: Gaillipiece is probably your third receiver? Like is that good
Speaker 1: drafting to to get a receiver that's higher rated. Let's
Speaker 1: say it's a Trailing Burke's type of guy who's gonna
Speaker 1: probably be your third receiver, then what are you doing
Speaker 1: that guard? Are you still going with with McGovern? I
Speaker 1: mean I would rather have the guard that comes in
Speaker 1: plays right away, even if he's not as good as
Speaker 1: my third receiver, because how does that guy help me? Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's let's flip that a little bit then, because
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, but what if the talent
Speaker 1: there says he might not this year. Right now, he
Speaker 1: might be your third receiver, but in a year or
Speaker 1: two he might be your best receiver. Or let's even
Speaker 1: flip it to another position, because I think receivers a
Speaker 1: little bit of different beast. Right now, Let's let's assume
Speaker 1: it's it's stingy by all accounts, he is a cornerback
Speaker 1: that will not be there for you. Let's assume he
Speaker 1: drops to you somebody with that kind of potential. Would
Speaker 1: you be willing to do that knowing that, hey man,
Speaker 1: this might not pay off for us in the immediate
Speaker 1: but it certainly can have big impact for us down
Speaker 1: the road. But we need a guard right now, which
Speaker 1: to a degree I agree with Nick and that to
Speaker 1: steal Brian brought us is like terminology, like if the
Speaker 1: tags are touching, if you're basically talking about the same
Speaker 1: players that play different positions, take the guard. Take the
Speaker 1: guard it's the issue where a guy that is clearly
Speaker 1: a lot better than the guard falls to you. Which,
Speaker 1: if if whatever we're hearing about this draft class is accurate,
Speaker 1: that's at least got a decent chance of happening. They
Speaker 1: could be setting themselves up to do something really dumb,
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Yeah, And that's that's the thing. It goes.
Speaker 1: It goes back to kind of what you just asked, Like,
Speaker 1: like usually you want to say best available player, but
Speaker 1: they haven't. They haven't afforded themselves that luxury this year.
Speaker 1: To do that, they have to go best available need.
Speaker 1: And and that's that's where that's what I think that
Speaker 1: they are right now. But I've said this all along too,
Speaker 1: is that like I think Dak is better, Zeke is better,
Speaker 1: these guys. Offense is better if your offensive line is
Speaker 1: way better, and the best way to do it is
Speaker 1: to draft, you know, and a plug and play guy.
Speaker 1: And that's it's just gonna be hard to think any
Speaker 1: of these other players, the Stingy, the Jordan Davis, any
Speaker 1: of these receivers. That sounds great, but I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: they've gotta get offensive line help. They've got to get
Speaker 1: a guy that can start do either one of those guards.
Speaker 1: Just that's why I don't get what they did. And
Speaker 1: I don't get the lack of action and free agency
Speaker 1: to prevent that from being true because it is true.
Speaker 1: But why is it true? Why did they not do? Like?
Speaker 1: Why are they content to be? Like? Man, I really
Speaker 1: hope Kenyan Green's there at twenty four because that's kind
Speaker 1: of what it feels like the strategy is. And are
Speaker 1: both those guys plug and play? Yeah? They play? Can
Speaker 1: better be? No? Well I'm asking, I mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's nice to say they better be, but you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: both of them are plug and play. Yes they're gonna be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, But I also just know this. Zach Martin
Speaker 1: was picked fourteenth and guard Quentin Nelson I think was
Speaker 1: sixth fifth maybe, like if you have a stud guard, yeah,
Speaker 1: they can get picked up this So when you say
Speaker 1: there's some there's something wrong with their game, well yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why. Yeah, of course there is something. Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, we're gonna take a break. But I I
Speaker 1: laughed when you said that earlier, which you know you
Speaker 1: could have a Zach Martin in this draft. So I
Speaker 1: say this kind of tongue in cheek, But like, if
Speaker 1: they trade up for a guard, the draft knicks, the
Speaker 1: people like me who like really freak out about this
Speaker 1: stuff will burn Twitter down if you if they trade
Speaker 1: up for a guard to make sure they get their guard,
Speaker 1: Like if you're trading up in a first round of
Speaker 1: a draft, doesn't matter though, how much like you if
Speaker 1: they trade up two spots, you're gonna be like, what
Speaker 1: why did they give up? I mean, what did I mean?
Speaker 1: What did they get in the Mica trade last year?
Speaker 1: What did Philly give them to go up two spots
Speaker 1: in the first round? A third? Yeah, yeah, you give
Speaker 1: a pick eighty eight to go get a guard. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't do that twelve to ten and twenty fourth. I'm
Speaker 1: just probably fourth. I'd be aggravated by one of those.
Speaker 1: One of those picks are supposed to do something. One
Speaker 1: of those About fifth round, fifth round picks, we got
Speaker 1: a lot of them. We're gonna talk about about one.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about fifth round picks later in the show. Um,
Speaker 1: but uh, speaking of trade and we're gonna go to break.
Speaker 1: I was just thought, whatever trade it is, it better
Speaker 1: be better than what you got through Amari Cooper. A
Speaker 1: better deal and it's a different deal, you know, different
Speaker 1: kind of trade, but you better get some some something
Speaker 1: better out of whatever trade you made. If a Mark
Speaker 1: Cooper can land your fifth round pick, then I would
Speaker 1: trade one of those fifth round picks to see if
Speaker 1: I can get something like that and its contract. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Well let's take a break. When we come back.
Speaker 1: Nick mentioned best available need, so I wanted to kna
Speaker 1: dive a little bit deeper into that and see what
Speaker 1: are some of the other higher needs that the Cowboys
Speaker 1: have for this draft. Hi, I'm Clint Tillison with and
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Speaker 1: Back to the break Head to the Star in Frisco
Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty two Cowboys Draft presented by Miller
Speaker 1: Lights Thursday April twenty eight through Saturday, April thirtieth, enjoyed
Speaker 1: live draft coverage, entertainment, free youth camp on Friday night.
Speaker 1: In the draft Day five K presented by Bayers, Scott
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot com slash draft. Can we can? We? First
Speaker 1: of all, give Dave a little bit of a handclap.
Speaker 1: He just completed a ten K last week. If you
Speaker 1: had seen me at the finish line, finish it, I
Speaker 1: appreciate there are a lot of people that cannot do that.
Speaker 1: So congratulation thing to get sold. Are you guys running
Speaker 1: the five K? Anybody? I would love to? They just
Speaker 1: it's I gotta be here to do. Day three coverage
Speaker 1: like it doesn't work out. Thought, it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to do it unless you're gonna The only thing I
Speaker 1: thought is maybe you could go in night shower and
Speaker 1: change in the I'd have to shower and change at
Speaker 1: the gym, and also i'd have to get up super
Speaker 1: early after covering day two until one am. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: just seems like something to say on the air. I did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just seems like, oh, I've been up since this
Speaker 1: morning to five GA. I was gonna say, when did
Speaker 1: Brian get here? I was thinking, I think Kyle does
Speaker 1: want to run the five game. I'm good for him.
Speaker 1: Runs a little bit loo congratulations day Yeah, good jobs.
Speaker 1: Thanks all right. So before the break, um Nick mentioned
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys might be forcing themselves to see like
Speaker 1: best available need, and then Dave mentioned the Brian's line
Speaker 1: that you know, if they're touching tags or whatever, and
Speaker 1: they're right there close to each other. So my question
Speaker 1: is are there any other positions that might be kind
Speaker 1: of touching tags with the guard position as far as needs, well,
Speaker 1: I you know, I'll let talk about it too, but
Speaker 1: I think receiver the reason why it's up there, it's
Speaker 1: there is a need there. Um you know, because you
Speaker 1: don't know what Gallup's going to do this year, and
Speaker 1: James Washington is still you know, he's he's a lower
Speaker 1: round free agent guy. That's supposed to be a band
Speaker 1: aid situation. So I think receiver because it's a need.
Speaker 1: I do think that that's would make more sense to
Speaker 1: you know, to be in the conversation, But I don't
Speaker 1: think it's that much of a need. I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the two or three biggest
Speaker 1: needs on the team, and I think I think the
Speaker 1: conversation comes down to that at twenty four just because
Speaker 1: of what might be there, and we have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that you never know. We certainly weren't talking about Ceedee
Speaker 1: Lamb in twenty twenty. We were talking about Mica a
Speaker 1: little bit last year, but from the most part, everybody
Speaker 1: was fixated on cornerback. So like, you don't know for sure,
Speaker 1: but when you just look at it, I think they
Speaker 1: need they need an interior offensive lineman more than anything.
Speaker 1: I think receivers. Right after that, then I would probably
Speaker 1: go edge rusher, where you could flop those two if
Speaker 1: you want to whatever. Those are the top three in
Speaker 1: my opinion, And then after that probably offensive tackle and
Speaker 1: tight end. So when you look at those, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a guard there for you, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: receiver there for you. Offensive tackle would be pretty surprising
Speaker 1: just because of the value of that position. There isn't
Speaker 1: a tight end with a first round grade. And what else?
Speaker 1: Did I say? Edge rusher? Possible? But again that feels
Speaker 1: surprising picking twenty fourth that one of those guys falls
Speaker 1: to you. So the natural conclusion is receiver. And why
Speaker 1: can't I talk receiver and guard? Sorry? Yeah? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so I think when you're answering that question, you're talking
Speaker 1: about it twenty four. Yeah, just yeah for the first
Speaker 1: round because not necessarily like those five positions should be
Speaker 1: your first five picks. You know, I don't think you're
Speaker 1: saying that because you can't predict that right, right, because
Speaker 1: because you could say, though, these would be needs to
Speaker 1: take in the first round. But I think if you're
Speaker 1: talking about out the first three rounds, I'm thinking linebacker
Speaker 1: has got to get in that mix because the more
Speaker 1: stability I've got a linebacker, then I can play Parsons
Speaker 1: where I want to play him. And I mean, Layton's
Speaker 1: a one year deal, and you know, after you know,
Speaker 1: who knows what else that happens at linebacker, and so
Speaker 1: I just need a little bit more stability, more playmakers there.
Speaker 1: So I kind of put that in that group. Not
Speaker 1: in the first round, I don't think, but but in
Speaker 1: the top you know, first two days. Yeah, maybe I
Speaker 1: ironically put edge slash a linebacker because because of what
Speaker 1: you said, like it allows me some flexibility with with Micah.
Speaker 1: If I get a linebacker, if I get it, I
Speaker 1: think an edge is important. But I also think if
Speaker 1: you get a linebacker, then that does offset that a
Speaker 1: little bit because you can't slide Mica down to play
Speaker 1: edge a little bit more if you got a linebacker
Speaker 1: you think can play. So I think I think I
Speaker 1: put those together. But I think I would actually say
Speaker 1: that swing tackle to me is the third It's behind
Speaker 1: guard and wide receiver. We've already taught. It's fun. You're
Speaker 1: gonna play some games this year, sure you're gonna neet
Speaker 1: that guy. And that guy is not currently on the team,
Speaker 1: So I think I think, oh, I don't think he's
Speaker 1: currently on the team, So I think they need to
Speaker 1: address that. I think the reason I fall off on
Speaker 1: tackle a little bit is just because I know that
Speaker 1: there are guys out there in free agency that like
Speaker 1: there you know, there's always a slide. There's always like
Speaker 1: a thirty three year old tackle who's just kind of chilling.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying they want to go resigned Tiansecky,
Speaker 1: but they probably could Jason probably talk Jason Peters out
Speaker 1: of retirement or whatever the hell he's got going on.
Speaker 1: So like, I just think you can play forever. You
Speaker 1: can address that cost effectively after the draft if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out. It's not to say I don't think
Speaker 1: they should draft one. Can you get a linebacker that
Speaker 1: just plays a linebacker, No one thinks he's a pass rusher,
Speaker 1: and then he gets a week two of the season
Speaker 1: and find out that he's a really good pass rusher.
Speaker 1: Can you get that guy? Yeah? I think that would
Speaker 1: be fun. Sure, right right after you get that, right
Speaker 1: after you get Zach Martin. Yeah, you can get that guy. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's just amazing when you when you
Speaker 1: really think about what happened with Parsons, like if I
Speaker 1: mean the COVID year, there's not a lot of great
Speaker 1: things that happened that they came out of covid. YEA,
Speaker 1: but that right there, just and I'm again I'm I'm
Speaker 1: just being tongue in cheek here. I understand that it
Speaker 1: was it was a huge deal for our whole world
Speaker 1: and country and all that, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: lost their lives. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: it feels even gross to put in the same sentence.
Speaker 1: But like the fact that that he didn't play, you know,
Speaker 1: he opted out for whatever the reasons opted out that
Speaker 1: allowed him to be you know, to fall to twelve.
Speaker 1: And I don't I think if you would have played
Speaker 1: that year, they would have realized this cauy Can rushed
Speaker 1: to the passer and he would have been drafted third.
Speaker 1: His coaches at Penn State have said they were going
Speaker 1: to put more on his plate if he had played,
Speaker 1: And that's if you go back, I'll I'll readily own
Speaker 1: it like I wanted one of the cornerbacks. And there
Speaker 1: was a lot of concerned about the deal. Let's be honest.
Speaker 1: There were some people out there that will, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys pressure, no, no, not. But for the fact
Speaker 1: that they both got taken. I think Mickey and I
Speaker 1: hand on this one there were plenty of like, no,
Speaker 1: that it's on this show. We pulled it. We pulled
Speaker 1: the clip the other day. You can go back and
Speaker 1: find it. There are people out there, but my like,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel bad about it, because the whole
Speaker 1: thing was positional value. Is like, is this guy gonna
Speaker 1: do more than playoff ball linebacker? Turns out yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's really good at it. And if there had been
Speaker 1: tape of that, yeah, he would have been a top
Speaker 1: five pick. And I remember saying the way, the way
Speaker 1: he rushes up the middle, I remember thinking, I remember
Speaker 1: saying this, like, it's not always going to be against
Speaker 1: Purdue and he gets Indiana, Like I get it. The
Speaker 1: guards are a lot better. Um, but but that that's
Speaker 1: that's what's scary about people like me that cover the
Speaker 1: draft and I don't cover. It's very loosely there. I
Speaker 1: look at highlight tapes, Well, no one puts out you know,
Speaker 1: Nakobe Dean's plays that suck like that, No one puts
Speaker 1: that on Twitter, on YouTube, they put his highlight tapes
Speaker 1: and this highlight tapes look good. But they're watching film
Speaker 1: on guys good and bad. So what he can do
Speaker 1: is what he can't do. So it's it's real scary
Speaker 1: to go I love what this guy does a receiver
Speaker 1: or like, okay, but he misses it. He runs bad
Speaker 1: routes sometimes and that's why he's not this or that.
Speaker 1: So you gotta be careful just on what you see
Speaker 1: on highlights because it goes both ways. Going back to
Speaker 1: the linebacker thing, I would like them to draft one,
Speaker 1: but and maybe I'm maybe I'm listening too much to
Speaker 1: Stephen Jones, like maybe I should be more not take
Speaker 1: him at his word, but like we asked him about
Speaker 1: a linebacker in Florida and he was like, oh, you
Speaker 1: gotta remember j Ron's basically a linebacker, And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point, and if you, but are they
Speaker 1: going to pull him down to that and have another
Speaker 1: strong safety in in those situations like like you can't
Speaker 1: double count him like I think when they're in nickel
Speaker 1: typically he's still on the fields at safety, right, but
Speaker 1: he comes down into the box and deals with the
Speaker 1: tight end, so all for all intents and purposes, like
Speaker 1: he's not back in coverage. He's down doing but you're
Speaker 1: still gonna need to linebackers my point, and yeah, but
Speaker 1: so but when you factor in those three like Layton
Speaker 1: vander Esht, Jabril Cox can play nickel linebackers. Basically what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, if you want to do if you want
Speaker 1: Mike to do something else, or Mica can obviously play
Speaker 1: nickel linebacker. Two. I just think if you include Curse
Speaker 1: and say that you've got those four, I feel okay
Speaker 1: about it. I'm not saying, like, sure, draft one, that
Speaker 1: would be great, but I have it lower on my
Speaker 1: list of name would be your guy Daman Clark. Why
Speaker 1: he had spinal fusion surgery and it's gonna miss his
Speaker 1: rookie season. Yeah, well, I feel terrible for him. He'd
Speaker 1: be a top he would be Are there any linebackers
Speaker 1: in his draft? He would be like, if they got
Speaker 1: him at twenty four, you'd be like, I get it.
Speaker 1: I understand. Like somebody, somebody stopped me go walking into
Speaker 1: the to the office like a month ago, some some fan.
Speaker 1: He was just like, what do you think? And he
Speaker 1: said it so fast I don't even know what he
Speaker 1: was saying. And of course it wasn't you know, nine
Speaker 1: in the morning. I don't know anything. He was just like,
Speaker 1: what do you think much time? Mum? And I'm like
Speaker 1: what he was like talking about Chad Muma from Wyoming.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of you being accosted about Trad
Speaker 1: Muma at nine o'clock in the morning. Well, what was funny?
Speaker 1: Can you guess? To look on? Nick's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to second. But here's here's what was really
Speaker 1: kind of funny about it. So he's he's like, he's
Speaker 1: a he's a big time fan, and he was up
Speaker 1: in the Cowboys club and with his wife. His wife
Speaker 1: was like, no, don't harass this guy. And he was
Speaker 1: just like, no, listening to the show all the time.
Speaker 1: He's probably listening. He's like, second round pick, what do
Speaker 1: you think about him in the second round? And as
Speaker 1: he's saying that, I look over and I see Darren Woodson,
Speaker 1: who works on the other side of this building. He's
Speaker 1: got a real estate company and all that. He's killing it.
Speaker 1: He's walking with like a client or whatever. And so
Speaker 1: I said, well loudly, you know, you know all the
Speaker 1: second round picks go. You never know about a second
Speaker 1: round pick and all that, And of course he was like,
Speaker 1: see there you go. That's why we're not friends, and
Speaker 1: all this stuff, which had reminded him there's a huge
Speaker 1: picture in my office about him. So but anyways, second round,
Speaker 1: pick d what but you have a picture of him
Speaker 1: in your office because he every time he sees Darren,
Speaker 1: he measures it. I'm okay, just are you love with
Speaker 1: the guy like you always manybe? I mean, maybe you
Speaker 1: know it's great, but it's always like Darren, I have
Speaker 1: a picture of you on my dad. Well, he's a
Speaker 1: high office all the time, so you know, so when
Speaker 1: he does, I mean, I just have to remind him that,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think I'm have pictures on his
Speaker 1: office wall. So the guy maybe cared too much about
Speaker 1: Darren paid. It was kind of what you're trying to do.
Speaker 1: You're trying to push him off on Darren, like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's a go get the future Hall of Famer. Maybe
Speaker 1: let go like go hang out with him. Okay, cool?
Speaker 1: Chad mum though about him even recognized Derek. What do
Speaker 1: you think about this guy? He's a good player. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't take notes on all five hundred
Speaker 1: of these guys the way that Brian does. I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people think really highly of him. He
Speaker 1: played at Wyoming. I think Logan Wilson could have won
Speaker 1: Super Bowl MVP. So I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: have wyoming in the back of their mind. Uh, maybe
Speaker 1: Josh too, well, I'm just thinking about it. Linebacker. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean like he's gonna be a top one hundred pick. Um, No,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say no to answer your question. Um,
Speaker 1: there's not a linebacker that they could pick at twenty
Speaker 1: four that would thrill me just because of the investment
Speaker 1: they've already made. It's the same argument you had last
Speaker 1: year about Michael right, Like, just for the value of
Speaker 1: the pick, you would be well and and and like
Speaker 1: you have Micah and you just drafted Cox. It's like, geah,
Speaker 1: I mean, gotta what we're gonna do with all these guys.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, so they're I mean, Nakobe
Speaker 1: Dean's one of my favorite players in this draft. They
Speaker 1: ain't drafted him. He's fine. I think he's gonna be there.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna he's five eleven. They don't draft
Speaker 1: five eleven guys. They like big long guys. They like
Speaker 1: Layton vander esh and Michael Parsons, Devin Lloyd. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are gonna try to sell Devin
Speaker 1: Lloyd as this year's Parsons because he had eight sacks
Speaker 1: at Utah last year. He can do a little bit
Speaker 1: of that, but the freakish athleticism just isn't there. Like
Speaker 1: he's lighter than Micah and also slower and less explosive,
Speaker 1: like to me of Derek Johnson. Yeah, Devin Lloyd because
Speaker 1: he's got the football in his hand every time. Every
Speaker 1: time you look at guy, a football magnet. Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: I don't mistake me. He's definitely a good player, but
Speaker 1: I don't not so good that I think it's worth
Speaker 1: drafting him twenty fourth overall agreement when you just drafted Mica.
Speaker 1: It's got to be a guard or just a playmaking
Speaker 1: receiver that you just can't. You just can't those only two.
Speaker 1: I mean, like you guys, would you would you consider
Speaker 1: cornerback if you if the right one failed you in
Speaker 1: first round? Like so, so that's why I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get and I think that's where Amber was going, Like,
Speaker 1: what are the positions where you like this? This makes
Speaker 1: this would make sense if the right guy's there. Here
Speaker 1: are some names you wouldn't be punching a wall. Actually
Speaker 1: take that. But you also have to ask the question,
Speaker 1: why is he falling? Yeah, I have to ask absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's fair. But I don't know that
Speaker 1: anybody was asking that question about CD. You just were like,
Speaker 1: he's here, get it right. We actually we've got We
Speaker 1: should have put Zion on the cover of our draft magazine.
Speaker 1: That's my one regret. But I got a few. Well,
Speaker 1: these three, these three are all names that I think
Speaker 1: you should know in terms of like not a receiver,
Speaker 1: not a guard, but somebody they should consider. We all
Speaker 1: know Tyler Linderbaum best center in the draft. I want like,
Speaker 1: it's so weird to me that they didn't bring him in,
Speaker 1: Like I think that's so weird, Like it what does
Speaker 1: that mean that? Like why don't you I don't know,
Speaker 1: why don't you want to do some due diligence that
Speaker 1: maybe the guy that maybe there, that's who they got circled,
Speaker 1: that's they want. They just don't want to put anybody
Speaker 1: on the set. I don't think they would draft pla. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just gonna you know, we don't look cool, look good.
Speaker 1: We got a center. I don't think they would draft
Speaker 1: Trent McDuffie um, but I think he should be in consideration.
Speaker 1: He's five ten dudes, a baller, A story on him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's our He's our story for today. I mainly I
Speaker 1: wanted him on the cover because I just think the
Speaker 1: purple kind of pops. But like he's a purple always
Speaker 1: pass freaking great football player. Like he's a shutdown corner.
Speaker 1: He can play slot and outside. I just wonder if
Speaker 1: he's got enough length. But maybe if he falls all
Speaker 1: the way at twenty four, maybe you consider it. And
Speaker 1: then there's George Karloft, this who is just a bad
Speaker 1: the badass edge rusher from Purdue. He's not like he's
Speaker 1: not this physical freak, but he's like a very athletic,
Speaker 1: high motor guy. And if you need an edge rusher
Speaker 1: athletic and high motor. Yeah, I mean, but he's not
Speaker 1: like he's not like an athletic super freak, is what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. But like he's an athletic edge
Speaker 1: He shouldn't be there at twenty four, but maybe he
Speaker 1: won't be. Yeah, who knows what? Y'all, every every one
Speaker 1: of the draft people that I listen to all are
Speaker 1: staying the same thing. It's gonna be a crapsh you
Speaker 1: get past the top, what five, six, seven picks, and
Speaker 1: it's really just your flavor. What do you want. The
Speaker 1: funny thing though, is like even still so much of
Speaker 1: the draft industry as group think because it's it's scary
Speaker 1: to kind of be out on your own with opinion,
Speaker 1: and so you still kind of find people falling into
Speaker 1: this group thought process where it's like, ah, he'll he'll
Speaker 1: be gone, he'll be gone. He ain't fallen. It's like
Speaker 1: somebody's got to And then for all you know this
Speaker 1: some guy that we've universally got pegged as getting picked
Speaker 1: in the twenties could go in the teens. Then I'll
Speaker 1: never forget Cleveland Farrell defensive linean out of Clemson, was
Speaker 1: like we widely had him circled as like somewhere between
Speaker 1: twenty and forty fourth overall, Thanks Michael, How how has
Speaker 1: he done? Hasn't worked out? That's not the point that
Speaker 1: I know. I'm just got the one that did, and
Speaker 1: he's I think a Hall of famer, And this it
Speaker 1: goes to show how long we've been doing this. But
Speaker 1: Dwight Freeney was not supposed to go in the top
Speaker 1: ten or whatever to the Colt and that was one
Speaker 1: that it was like who you know? And then not
Speaker 1: not who because he's probably a late first round put.
Speaker 1: Its probably also his size like that that was always
Speaker 1: the knock on him as his size, but he played
Speaker 1: well beyond that. Between that always happens. I feel like
Speaker 1: in every draft, you you're watching the TV and you're
Speaker 1: looking and you're expecting the team to do something, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden they pick a guy that
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, what what? And then and we saw
Speaker 1: it happen a lot last year and was it last
Speaker 1: year mainly? Yeah? Right, that it was a lot that
Speaker 1: you're like, whoa what And that's clearly how cite Lamb
Speaker 1: and landed on your lab because and that's and that
Speaker 1: we say this all the time. But like these guys
Speaker 1: that are that are doing this, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler does an amazing job and draft. You know,
Speaker 1: he's got this beast of a of a of a
Speaker 1: book with all these players, but you know it's done universally.
Speaker 1: It's not he's not ranking the corners based off of
Speaker 1: length and size and what Dan Quinn would want. He's
Speaker 1: trying to put it all out there on everything involved.
Speaker 1: When he might Dan Quinn might look at it and go, well,
Speaker 1: his number fourteen corners might number two corner because he'll
Speaker 1: come right in this guy. I mean like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's and that's that's that's not a knock on
Speaker 1: any of these draft experts. They can only do it
Speaker 1: that way. That's why this stuff happens. There's a receiver
Speaker 1: out there that that will be a perfect slot guy
Speaker 1: for what the offense is trying to do for some team.
Speaker 1: That is probably the number twenty five receiver on the board,
Speaker 1: but he might go in the second round. Yep. Well,
Speaker 1: let me change the conversation a little bit. We've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about the first two rounds and you know
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do on Day one and those top picks,
Speaker 1: but we haven't really got into those later rounds. And
Speaker 1: like they late, they two late in day three, you know.
Speaker 1: And we give the Cowboys Will McClay and his staff
Speaker 1: a lot of credit of the amazing job that they
Speaker 1: usually do when it comes to drafting talent. But looking
Speaker 1: at this list of it here as far as the
Speaker 1: fifth round pick, I mean, yeah, well they got four
Speaker 1: fifth rounders. That's why we keep talking about everything is like, well,
Speaker 1: the kick her just fifth round. Und. I think the
Speaker 1: point she's about to make though, is that the track
Speaker 1: record we went nibble. So I'm gonna drop some names.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna down go for most recent to later down
Speaker 1: the road, uh Semi, Philoco, Bradley and I, Michael Jackson,
Speaker 1: Joe Jackson, Mike Y, Ryan Russell, Devon Street, Joseph Randall,
Speaker 1: Danny Cole, Josh Thomas, DeAngelo Smith, and then a few
Speaker 1: more down the road. You got Orlando scan Drake, which
Speaker 1: was one that he did stay here for scand the
Speaker 1: last good fifth round pick? Yeah? Odd is he the
Speaker 1: only like I didn't hear any names in there that
Speaker 1: just jumped at me. I mean, ironically. The funny thing
Speaker 1: is if you go and look at six and seventh round,
Speaker 1: is they've been better in the sixth and seventh round
Speaker 1: than they've been in the fifth round. That's been questioned.
Speaker 1: What do they do? Yeah, that's the thing everyone keeps
Speaker 1: kind of there's like this little, you know, growing excitement
Speaker 1: about what I got four in the fifth round. I
Speaker 1: think the excitement is if you do something with them,
Speaker 1: if you trade it for something else, or you package
Speaker 1: it to get up better fourth or a third or
Speaker 1: something like that, because he's sitting there and taking four
Speaker 1: fifth rounders seems like a waste. Yeah, I'm serious, that's why.
Speaker 1: And like again, draft nicks can get into all these
Speaker 1: arguments about like the value. I would use the first
Speaker 1: pick of the fifth round on the kicker that John
Speaker 1: Fossil likes the best. I would be excited if it
Speaker 1: was Kade York. I don't really care what they think.
Speaker 1: Draft a kicker who cares, Like the odds are that
Speaker 1: whoever you draftedn't gonna make the team anyway, or will
Speaker 1: excuse me, he'll make the team, he just won't do anything.
Speaker 1: Just get a good kicker time that you would ever
Speaker 1: like that the Cowboys would have used a draft pick
Speaker 1: on a kicker, that's a question on their list there.
Speaker 1: But um but he wasn't even supposed to be like
Speaker 1: the kicker he even like, even if he sucks, like
Speaker 1: even if the kickers not that Like I mean the
Speaker 1: track record I think we talked about this, like the
Speaker 1: track record of of kicks being used on kickers is
Speaker 1: pretty damn good. Like both of the Pro bowlers this
Speaker 1: year were drafted. M Evan McPherson, who was a huge
Speaker 1: part of the Bengals run was a fifth round pick. Like,
Speaker 1: if a kicker is good enough to get drafted, he's
Speaker 1: usually pretty good. Like there are always the exceptions, like
Speaker 1: a Guio that's Tampa's fault now, and that was a
Speaker 1: weird situation. Yeah, I think you're not doing it. It's
Speaker 1: such a mental position. You're not doing a kicker any
Speaker 1: favors by trading up for him in the second round
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Um, but yeah, just draft the guy
Speaker 1: you like the best, and even if he sucks, well,
Speaker 1: all your other fifth round picks too, too, like when
Speaker 1: you're back where you started. Yeah, yeah, I just I
Speaker 1: don't know what the strategy has been there. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if there is a theme to those
Speaker 1: guys other than tape. Um. I just they haven't they
Speaker 1: haven't stuck, you know. And I mean Joseph Randall was
Speaker 1: a pretty good player, but he failed a lot of issues.
Speaker 1: What he I mean, talent wise, I was a good
Speaker 1: that was a good player, But like Devon Street, I mean,
Speaker 1: Ryan Russell, those guys couldn't and even like the most
Speaker 1: recent ones in like the past five years. These are
Speaker 1: names that we've talked about on here, and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can see it, but then it just you never
Speaker 1: really get much out of it and never leads to anything. Really,
Speaker 1: who are the three after an eye? Like Joe Jackson,
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, and Mike White. Which Mike White, I mean
Speaker 1: Mike White wound up being worth it just for another
Speaker 1: team after they cut him. I mean, if I had
Speaker 1: told you, if I told you that, he would have
Speaker 1: wound up starting a few games and won a regular
Speaker 1: season game for you, which he did for the Jets
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, against the Super Bowl runner up got
Speaker 1: The NFL is such a weird league, so crazy, that
Speaker 1: would be worth it. It's just it just didn't happen here,
Speaker 1: which sucks. Which, by the way, when you're talking about
Speaker 1: that round, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh round picks like
Speaker 1: I don't think of that as they have to be
Speaker 1: great here, Like if they keep playing, to me, that
Speaker 1: means you gotta pick. You got a good pick there.
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't work for you long term, but they
Speaker 1: doesn't make you feel any better, you know, but but
Speaker 1: it does make you feel better from a standpoint of
Speaker 1: the evaluations. Right, the evaluation was right. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: Xavier Woods to me is a good example of dead,
Speaker 1: Xavier Woods is still playing football, and so as a
Speaker 1: sixth round pick to still be playing football, that's a
Speaker 1: good pick. If Xavier Woods had never played another down
Speaker 1: after his contract ended here, he would have been a
Speaker 1: great pick. That's yeah. That like I get I get
Speaker 1: frustrated sometimes because of like the way people evaluate this stuff,
Speaker 1: like if you find and obviously his tenure here did
Speaker 1: not end well. The comments he made about hustling will
Speaker 1: forever be remembered. But like for what you got out
Speaker 1: of him at as pick like one ninety eight or
Speaker 1: something like that, if you call that a disappointing pick,
Speaker 1: you're just telling me you don't understand the draft, that's
Speaker 1: all you're saying. Okay, that's a great pick six. Same thing.
Speaker 1: We give Noah Brown a lot of crap, but Noah
Speaker 1: Brown was that's thirty nine. That's my guy for that's
Speaker 1: making it work. Pick Year after year, that list has
Speaker 1: games played on there, and and you know thirty thirty five,
Speaker 1: you know, forty eight games played. It's like three seasons.
Speaker 1: I bet you only Scandrick. Only Scandrick, I think, is
Speaker 1: the only guy that goes over forty games played. And
Speaker 1: maybe Josh Thomas. No, there are there are a couple.
Speaker 1: So Orlando Scandrick played one hundred and forty three games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he started seventy seven. Yeah. Um, as far as
Speaker 1: other like starts, starts, you have Sean Ryan, he started
Speaker 1: fifteen and he played fifty three games. Pat Watkins, he
Speaker 1: played fifty three games. That's pretty good. And then the
Speaker 1: other one that's up there two is Josh Thomas. And
Speaker 1: that did not happen here. That happened Carolina. I don't think. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's just a total state in general. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I don't even remember Sean Ryan started any game
Speaker 1: but fifty tight end that was like you started off
Speaker 1: in the two tight end set and he was not
Speaker 1: a starter. Yeah, but yeah, look how did the last four?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously no starts there with those last four,
Speaker 1: But the highest one was Joe Jackson with twenty games
Speaker 1: that he played. You know, he was a special teams guy,
Speaker 1: you know, that's all he was. Um, I don't think
Speaker 1: he's still in the league, Joe Jackson. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I will. I will say this though, and like again,
Speaker 1: your expectations should go down the later you get on
Speaker 1: day three. But going back to what we said about
Speaker 1: what Rob said talking about Connor Williams last week is like,
Speaker 1: when this is your strategy, Like, when you invest this
Speaker 1: much in the draft, you need to hit on some
Speaker 1: of these. Like you can't just be like, well, what
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it's the fifth round. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: this is how you're choosing to bring talent into your team.
Speaker 1: And so many people want to talk about the Rams
Speaker 1: and what they're doing. A big part of the reason
Speaker 1: why they can get away with that is they're actually
Speaker 1: great on Day three of the draft. Like I'm for
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, like, obviously not every pick is
Speaker 1: gonna hit, but like Obo Okrawanco, Sebastian Day, who's the
Speaker 1: who's the safety, Jordan Fuller, the guy who made the
Speaker 1: play on CD in Week one in twenty twenty sixth
Speaker 1: round pick, Like they're getting starters on Day three, year
Speaker 1: in and year out. They're finding guys that can contribute.
Speaker 1: I do think the Cowboys could stand to be a
Speaker 1: little bit better. Well, he's the third round. I think
Speaker 1: that's I think that's a little bit more of a
Speaker 1: third round to get the best receiver in the league. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a heck of a pick. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Samson Ecubam, who's been a part of their pass rush,
Speaker 1: it felt like he was part of their pass rush forever.
Speaker 1: Was a fourth round pick, like they no Boom Cody
Speaker 1: note Boom Cody is Wikeman or Wickman, I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but they found him in the sixth round. Um, they're good.
Speaker 1: The Confine starters on Day three have done pretty good
Speaker 1: at sixth and seventh round. It's just the ironic part
Speaker 1: is the fifth rounds and this is the year that
Speaker 1: they're sitting with four. Usually it takes us several years
Speaker 1: for you to be able to categorize how well the
Speaker 1: draft went for the Cowboys and all that. But if
Speaker 1: you had to, like, after we're done with the draft
Speaker 1: and looking at it, if you had to say, for
Speaker 1: this year, what would you call a good draft? That
Speaker 1: it turned out well for the Cowboys? What would they
Speaker 1: need to do in this specific draft to say right
Speaker 1: away before heading into the preseason that this was a
Speaker 1: good draft Heading into preseason, they need two guys start
Speaker 1: this year. So with you guys that start for sure,
Speaker 1: that'd be great heading into preseason. Yeah. Two, that seems
Speaker 1: that two. Bona five starters and a third that has
Speaker 1: a clearly defined role somewhere. The way that's probably going
Speaker 1: to happen is if they get a wide receiver, probably
Speaker 1: in the first round, and then get the guard in
Speaker 1: the second. It could happen other way too, right, Like
Speaker 1: they could go a guard in the first round and
Speaker 1: then get a I mean this wide receiver class supposed
Speaker 1: to be pretty deep, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean he could. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Could the receiver be better than James Washington and Michael
Speaker 1: Gallup's not ready? Yeah, yeah, that could happen. So guard receivers.
Speaker 1: I think that if that's the first two picks, the
Speaker 1: hope is that they're both going to be playing Week
Speaker 1: one of this season because they're gonna have to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, probably will the draft gods be that kind
Speaker 1: to them like that a guy that's good enough. Could
Speaker 1: you draft a second round offensive tackle and he's better
Speaker 1: than Terrence Steele? I mean that could that not happen?
Speaker 1: They're they're putting the eggs in that basket. But that
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that he's Yeah, when I mentioned swing tackle,
Speaker 1: the fact is that swing tackle's coming in here, and
Speaker 1: if he's a young draft pick, he's competing with Terrence
Speaker 1: Steel to be a starter. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that's one of those things where I wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: the coaches are like, what are you talking about? Like
Speaker 1: Terrence Steel all day, every day unless unless we wind
Speaker 1: up with that's all that cross. That's exactly why I said,
Speaker 1: that's in my mind, because my mind may be very different.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, um Tyler Smith out of Tulsa,
Speaker 1: if he's hanging around in the second round, Abraham Lucas
Speaker 1: out of Washington State, um at tackles like edge Rusher though,
Speaker 1: like the good ones go pretty quick, like great ones
Speaker 1: aren't usually hanging around by fifty six and certainly not
Speaker 1: eighty eight. Yep y. So we'll see, we shall see,
Speaker 1: and we're almost done. We will have another show right
Speaker 1: before the draft, which is Draft Thursday, and we'll have
Speaker 1: a show on Wednesday. And Derek, get a snack. You're
Speaker 1: ready to go eating, Ryan, let's go. Sorry, well, yes,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much for joining us live
Speaker 1: and on demand later on. For Nicki, Derek Eagleton, I
Speaker 1: have to do this slow. This is like a tongue
Speaker 1: twister for me, for Nickiman, for Derek Eagleton, David Hellman,
Speaker 1: a member GARCIA. This has been the Break on Dallas
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