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Speaker 1: I listened to The Black Guy Who Tips podcast because

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Speaker 1: Rod and Karen are hot.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to another episode of the Blackouts podcast.

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Speaker 3: I'm your host Rod, joined us always by my co.

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Speaker 2: Host Karen, and we're live on a Sunday afternoon, ready

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Speaker 2: to give you guys some podcasting. Find us wherever you

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Speaker 2: get podcasts, search The Black Guy Tips. Leave us five

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Speaker 2: star reviews. Of course, make them nice. We'll read them

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Speaker 2: on the air. That's how that's how that works. Don't

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Speaker 2: make them nice or don't make them five stars, and

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Speaker 2: it's like we can't even see that. And in addition

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Speaker 2: to that, you can always leave feedback. Look at the

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Speaker 2: show notes our website. We have posts for each episode,

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Speaker 2: polls for each episode. You can also go to our

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Speaker 2: YouTube page, leave comments on our YouTube videos, social media,

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Speaker 2: all that stuff, email address, voicemail line, it's all there.

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Speaker 2: So if you ever feel that fomo when you're listening

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Speaker 2: to a feedback episode, like ah I had something to say, well.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 2: And in addition to that, you can come to our

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Speaker 2: live chatroom on crowdcast dot io and hang out with us,

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Speaker 2: watch us record live and get to meet these great

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Speaker 2: guests and play the games and all the stuff that

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Speaker 2: we do here. Speaking of great guests, today's guest is

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Speaker 2: the author of Black Capitalists, A Blueprint for what is Possible,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Rachel Loria.

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Speaker 3: Hey, what's going on? How you doing?

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Speaker 1: Hey? Thanks so much for having me. Happy Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, happy Sunday to you as well. What made

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Speaker 2: you interested in Black Capitalists as a focal point to

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Speaker 2: write a book about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. So I have been interested

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Speaker 1: in this topic and really in the topic of brace

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Speaker 1: and money and capitalism ever since I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I just had different language for it at that time.

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Speaker 1: And when I was a child, I think every correlation

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Speaker 1: that I saw to well and economic thriving was associated

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Speaker 1: with whiteness. It was the case that I grew up

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Speaker 1: in these spaces of privilege, but never felt like I

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Speaker 1: had authority in them myself. So, for example, my mother,

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Speaker 1: who immigrated to the US from Ghana, where she was

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Speaker 1: born and raised, was able to buy her own home

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Speaker 1: in the US through an affordable housing program where she

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Speaker 1: won a lottery that gave her access to do so,

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Speaker 1: and that home was located in one of the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: counties in Northern Virginia, where I grew up, and so

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Speaker 1: I would see these kind of nuclear white families with

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Speaker 1: the dog, the white picket fences, you know, the over

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Speaker 1: zealous parent, teachers, associations, all of that. But I was

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Speaker 1: having a very different experience being part of that community

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Speaker 1: in it, but not really of it. And then fast forward,

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Speaker 1: you know, I went to an all girls college prep

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Speaker 1: school that cost sixty thousand dollars a year to go to,

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Speaker 1: and I was on a full ride scholarship, and so

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Speaker 1: again I was seeing these expressions and displays of wealth

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Speaker 1: that were so often associated with whiteness. It got me

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Speaker 1: just wondering and thinking, man like, what does it look

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Speaker 1: like to be black and wealthy? And what is the

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Speaker 1: cost in order to achieve that or have that kind

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Speaker 1: of experience. And so by the time I was in college,

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Speaker 1: which I did ATU, when I was studying so much

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Speaker 1: of black studies, critical race theory, the black radical tradition,

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Speaker 1: I had this kind of trajectory of what I was

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Speaker 1: going to do. I wanted to go to grad school,

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Speaker 1: but I just so happened to get recruited by Goldman Sachs.

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Speaker 1: And at that time I didn't know anything about investing,

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Speaker 1: about finance, and it was really at the behest of

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Speaker 1: my older brother who said, you should just try this out,

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Speaker 1: see what they're talking about when it comes to an

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Speaker 1: internship at the firm, because it might change your life.

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Speaker 1: And so sure enough I interned ultimately work there full time,

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Speaker 1: and it was while I was at that I saw

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Speaker 1: how black people were participating in capitalism in ways that

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Speaker 1: were complicated, that were nuanced, and really kind of ruptured

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Speaker 1: for me everything that I knew growing up about that

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Speaker 1: kind of a correlation I met before around wealth and whiteness,

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Speaker 1: and so to see how people could be both critical

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Speaker 1: of an economic system for good reason because capitalism produces

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Speaker 1: all these harms that were so familiar with, but that

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Speaker 1: to then use the tools of capitalism and service of

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Speaker 1: themselves and service of their communities in a way that

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Speaker 1: was indicative of social good felt really nuanced to me,

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Speaker 1: and that's what really got me excited to pursue this formally,

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Speaker 1: go to grad school, build a whole research study around this,

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Speaker 1: and then ultimately the book as well. And so it

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Speaker 1: really started for my own kind of internal wonderings as

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Speaker 1: a kid around race and money, and then it showed

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Speaker 1: up in this way as a book years after.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like you were a first generation from born

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Speaker 4: in America, Like from your line, that experience is a

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Speaker 4: little different than people that are born and raised here.

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Speaker 4: Whenever you talk to people about this, how do black

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Speaker 4: people from America respond to you talking about this?

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Speaker 5: And how do.

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Speaker 4: Black people kind of from your culture, from the old

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Speaker 4: degeneration respond to It's going to different cultures have different

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Speaker 4: experiences kind of back and forth and their own biases

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Speaker 4: on both sides. And I know sometimes the language is

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Speaker 4: not the same, even though in reality we're all in

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Speaker 4: the same boat. But people kind of view it different

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Speaker 4: based on that, oh for sure.

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the ways that's kind of

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Speaker 1: crystallized was and I'll tell you a story. Two years

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Speaker 1: into my doctoral program at Yale, all students are responsible

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Speaker 1: for giving what they call a perspectus where you kind

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Speaker 1: of go up on stage you tell all the folks,

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Speaker 1: especially in the African American Studies department at Yale, what

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Speaker 1: you're going to research, what you're going to study about,

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Speaker 1: and how you're going to do it. And so I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to be studying black capitalists throughout

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Speaker 1: the Transatlantic financial industry. Given my experiences at Goldman. And

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Speaker 1: after my presentation, one of my Black American colleagues, who

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Speaker 1: also pursue her PhD, a brilliant scholar, she raised her

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Speaker 1: hand and she said, black capitalists don't exist. She said,

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Speaker 1: at best, they can be black financiers, but they can't

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Speaker 1: be capitalists. And what she was saying was really kind

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Speaker 1: of invoking this larger critique about the legacy and the

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Speaker 1: creation of American capitalism and its unique kind of application

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Speaker 1: within the black community born and raised in America. Because

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Speaker 1: the idea of being a black capitalist, regardless of the

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Speaker 1: fact that I define it anew, regardless of the fact

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Speaker 1: that I define black capitalism in you, it creates this

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Speaker 1: kind of trouble in mind when you're suggesting this idea

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Speaker 1: of like, how can you adopt an economic system whereby

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Speaker 1: we were the laborers of it, are kind of ancestors,

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Speaker 1: were the laborers, but we never got to be the

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Speaker 1: beneficiaries of it. And so it creates this really particular

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Speaker 1: tension that makes even this conversation that I'm wanting to

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Speaker 1: have in this way in which I'm wanting us to

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Speaker 1: think about things difficult to have. And so I make

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Speaker 1: a lot of space for that and I acknowledge the

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Speaker 1: kind of the tensions based on where we sit geographically

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Speaker 1: and the kind of migration patterns that we have, because

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Speaker 1: you did say, while we were all in the same boat,

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Speaker 1: there are nuances to our different experiences, and so we

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Speaker 1: have to make space for that, because I think too

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Speaker 1: for the immigrant experience, my mom's experience, and even mine

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Speaker 1: as a kind of byproduct of that, My relationship to

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Speaker 1: capitalism has its differences because I don't have that kind

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Speaker 1: of historical legacy that my Black American peers, brothers and

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Speaker 1: sisters might have, And so all of that gets accounted

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Speaker 1: for as we think about Okay, we know the capitalism

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Speaker 1: that we exist in today is extractive, it's exploitative, it's harmful.

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Speaker 1: But we also know that there are more black millionaires

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Speaker 1: in this country than there have ever been. We also

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Speaker 1: know that capitalism isn't getting dismantled tomorrow, and so how

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Speaker 1: do we move from this moment into a more liberatory

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Speaker 1: one and what are the tools in which we're going

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Speaker 1: to use in this moment to get us to that place.

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Speaker 1: It's not about saying capitalism is good or bad. It's

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Speaker 1: about recognizing the reality of things and using the tools

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Speaker 1: available to us working in community in order to kind

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Speaker 1: of get to that more liberatory future. And so that's

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Speaker 1: really the offering that I have in this book and

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Speaker 1: acknowledging all of the nuances the differences, even though there's

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Speaker 1: still opportunity for us to move with one unified voice

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Speaker 1: and with unified action.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like when the PR person reached out

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Speaker 2: about this interview, I said, yes so fast, because we

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Speaker 2: talk about this on our show a lot, just in general,

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Speaker 2: because I do find that, like some of the flattening

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Speaker 2: of our conversations via social media, it loses a lot

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Speaker 2: of nuance, right, and so it just becomes like X

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Speaker 2: person is bad, this person is good, or this this

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Speaker 2: system is so bad that nothing good can come of it,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I do understand those things, But at

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Speaker 2: least in my experience, I feel like black people navigate

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Speaker 2: capitalism differently as a whole, because we've been the capital

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Speaker 2: in America, so we have, like even a lot of

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Speaker 2: the people that are defined as black capitalists in America,

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Speaker 2: it seems like it's more about how much wealth they've

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Speaker 2: managed to either accumulate or be responsible for, which I

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Speaker 2: think is another like misnomer. People often look at like, oh,

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Speaker 2: so and so's a billionaire. It's like their evaluation is

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Speaker 2: that of a billionaire. It's not necessarily the same. Like

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Speaker 2: if you ask them to go get a billion dollars

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Speaker 2: at the bank, they can't, but it doesn't mean they're

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Speaker 2: not rich or whatever. But the way that people get

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Speaker 2: their money in the black community, a lot of times

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Speaker 2: I feel like they get lumped in the same as

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Speaker 2: like you know, an Elon Musk or somebody, And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: to me, those are two different paths to getting money,

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Speaker 2: and especially when you don't really own like the means

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Speaker 2: of production. A lot of times Black people get they

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Speaker 2: make money off of I'm talented and people want to

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Speaker 2: see my talent, so therefore I've earned this money. But

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Speaker 2: there's a person even above that. You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: like Beyonce is a billionaire. I don't even I don't

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Speaker 2: even know who owns Ticketmaster, but I got a feeling

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Speaker 2: that the person that owns Ticketmaster is probably clocking even

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Speaker 2: more right. Lebron James will eventually be a billionaire if

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Speaker 2: he's not already, But the people that own the teams

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Speaker 2: that he plays for all have more money than him.

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Speaker 2: So how would you define like capitalism and in mass

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Speaker 2: versus like black capitalism in your.

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Speaker 1: Opinion, yes, and so that's why definitions are so important.

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Speaker 1: I love that you asked that question. I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to recognize capitalism as just first and foremost an

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Speaker 1: economic system whereby private actors engage in order to create

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Speaker 1: excess capital for themselves. Well, to be a black capitalist,

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Speaker 1: as I define it, is to be a person who

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Speaker 1: identifies as a black person and repositions themselves within the

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Speaker 1: economic system in order to create social good. So this

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Speaker 1: is drastically different than what we understand capitalism to be

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Speaker 1: because that's about profitability, it's about output, Whereas to be

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Speaker 1: a black capitalist, it's about how do you reposition yourself

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Speaker 1: in the economic system strategically while also creating social good.

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Speaker 1: It's like securing the bag, securing the people. They go

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Speaker 1: one in hand, hand in hand. Then to practice black capitalism,

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing. The only difference is it's race agnostic.

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Speaker 1: So this is any individual or collective that does that

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Speaker 1: work of repositioning themselves in order to create social good.

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Speaker 1: And I think when it comes to the black community,

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Speaker 1: even how we get our money, how we get access

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Speaker 1: to capital, it's very much more communal forward because of

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Speaker 1: lack of access we get in other kind of structures

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Speaker 1: or systems, and so we have to look inwards in

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Speaker 1: order to kind of really build the resources monetary, human capitals,

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Speaker 1: social capital, etc. In order to create new avenues for

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Speaker 1: ownership for ourselves. And so that's the definition that I

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Speaker 1: have for a black capitalists and for black capitalism, which

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Speaker 1: again is very different than kind of the capitalism that

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Speaker 1: we know and what it nurtures, which is a scarcity mindset, individualism, exploitation.

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Speaker 1: But I do believe and there's evidence for how you

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Speaker 1: can build and be invested in sustainable and scalable businesses

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Speaker 1: and manners of just behaving in the economic system, we're

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Speaker 1: able to create that access in capital while also making

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Speaker 1: sure that it's not coming at the consequence of exploiting

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Speaker 1: other people in the process of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I have one hundred percent agree. Me and Roger

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Speaker 4: we kind of have the same philosophy on this, not

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Speaker 4: all because there's always inceptions to the rules, but most

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Speaker 4: wealthy and quote unque slash and rich Black people give

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Speaker 4: back to their community in mass is more than any

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Speaker 4: other racial group like and a lot of times we

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Speaker 4: do it out of the love for our people, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of these people invest but they might not

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Speaker 4: their names are not always attached to a lot of

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Speaker 4: them want to do it privately because a lot of

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Speaker 4: times it's I don't want to say it's frowned upon,

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Speaker 4: but maybe the circles they're in, they might not, might

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Speaker 4: not want to be publicly associated with it and things

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Speaker 4: like that. Maybe they just want to kind of just

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Speaker 4: have their money flow and help the people and have

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Speaker 4: the people benefit from connection.

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Speaker 2: I remember when people were going hard on jay Z

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Speaker 2: and Beyonce because jay Z is like, you know, mister hustle,

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Speaker 2: Like everything felt is.

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Speaker 3: A hustle for him.

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Speaker 2: Like it's like, how can we get some money out

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Speaker 2: of this? Like he's not showing up for free. He

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Speaker 2: raps about it, he tells you about it. It's not

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Speaker 2: like a secret for him. But even within his work,

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Speaker 2: like Rock Nation does so much charitable work. They do,

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Speaker 2: they do so much legal work for like inmates and

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Speaker 2: prison stuff. So like it's this weird amalgamation of like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to as much bread as possible,

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Speaker 2: but there's always like this idea of like but also

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Speaker 2: help out.

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Speaker 3: The community or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But what I think was interesting is they were getting

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Speaker 2: it heavy, like right as Black Lives Matter started jumping off,

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Speaker 2: and then people found out not from them, but I

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Speaker 2: believe it was like the forget her name now, but

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Speaker 2: the woman who wrote like the Blueprint whatever the book

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Speaker 2: was that jay Z had, I forget what that author's

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Speaker 2: name is, but she went on Twitter and was like,

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Speaker 2: they bailed out all these people. They gave us the

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Speaker 2: funds to bail out the protesters who were arrested for

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Speaker 2: protesting for I think it was in maybe Minneapolis or something.

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Speaker 2: But the point being like they didn't promote that, they

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Speaker 2: didn't tell us that they didn't like leak that they

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Speaker 2: would have gone to their grades with many, many many

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Speaker 2: people being like, you rich sobs, you don't care about

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Speaker 2: our community. But clearly they do, and there's other work

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Speaker 2: they are public about what clearly they do. But I

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Speaker 2: definitely feel like that is a feature of a lot

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Speaker 2: of black people who make money, whether you call them

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Speaker 2: capitalists or you just call them black people that got rich.

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Speaker 2: Whichever way it is, it feels like there's a connection there,

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Speaker 2: and part of that I wonder, And I don't know

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Speaker 2: how much you wrote about this, but part of it

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Speaker 2: also wonders how much of it is just how recent

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Speaker 2: Black people get money, right, Like it's not necessarily generational wealth.

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Speaker 2: That is, Oh, this money's been in my family for

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Speaker 2: ten generations and it just got handed down to me.

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Speaker 2: Why would I feel a connection to some other black

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Speaker 2: person that doesn't have anything. Some of these stories are

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Speaker 2: like Beyonce is a first generation person that's rich. Jay

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Speaker 2: Z literally born into projects. Like so many of these stories,

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Speaker 2: it feels like in their lifetime they have seen poverty,

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Speaker 2: They've had connections to community in a way that almost

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Speaker 2: want to allow them to turn a blind eye to

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Speaker 2: the rest of us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And something I want to add to I think

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Speaker 1: further even create the nuance here is that it's a

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Speaker 1: particular identity to be a black capitalist, because one can

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Speaker 1: be a black person participating in capitalism, but that does

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Speaker 1: not mean you're invested in social good, right, because it

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Speaker 1: could be that you're actually reproducing the harms of capitalism,

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Speaker 1: and you can be just like colonizers, like oppressors, but

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Speaker 1: a black person doing it. And so to have a

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Speaker 1: kind of black capitalist orientation and identity, it's really about

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Speaker 1: saying and choosing that I'm going to move economically and

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Speaker 1: financially in a way that's going to not only you know,

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Speaker 1: secure economic thriving for myself, but also to do it

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Speaker 1: in a way that gives access to other people to

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Speaker 1: do it as well. And so that becomes an important

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Speaker 1: kind of fixture because you know, you mentioned jay Z

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Speaker 1: and Beyonce, and they get critiqued front back center, you know,

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Speaker 1: for them being who they are then having access to

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Speaker 1: resources and whatnot. But I think it's always important to

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Speaker 1: kind of keep in mind too this question of like

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Speaker 1: what does it really mean to be a black capitalist,

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Speaker 1: Like what does it mean to you as a kind

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Speaker 1: of point of distinction just participating capitalism, Because that question

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Speaker 1: of like am I producing harm and the behaviors that

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Speaker 1: I you know, pursue that becomes like the critical point

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Speaker 1: that we have to really examine. So I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to add that to just further layer on.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just bringing them up because they're such prominent examples,

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Speaker 2: but like, there are so many black people that have money.

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Speaker 2: They don't they're not singers, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: They're not rappers.

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Speaker 3: We don't know their.

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Speaker 2: Names necessarily, and similar things like I know, for me,

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Speaker 2: I had I was involved in in Roads when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid, this like program for academically talented black

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Speaker 2: youth to like try to get internships and all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I know, I met black people who had money,

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Speaker 2: who had resources, who had the jobs that you know,

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Speaker 2: all the stuff that you want as a kid when

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Speaker 2: you're like coming up and you're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: how do I be like you? And they were spending

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Speaker 2: their saturdays helping me, like you know, the help and

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Speaker 2: not just me, but all these black kids in that way.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm reading this book it's called Black Broadway

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Speaker 2: in Washington, DC, and it goes into a lot of

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Speaker 2: black history and stuff. And one of the things recently,

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Speaker 2: the part that I'm reading, talked about how right as

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Speaker 2: the Civil War was happening in America, black people were

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Speaker 2: fleeing the South. They were coming up to the North,

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Speaker 2: and for a lot of them to stop was Washington, DC.

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Speaker 2: Like they were like, this is we're calling this freedom

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Speaker 2: right right here.

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Speaker 3: We're posting up and we ain't going back.

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Speaker 2: So the things that got interesting for me was like,

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Speaker 2: so Jim Crow starts like almost like eight years after

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Speaker 2: the Civil War ends, and Jim Crow is of course

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Speaker 2: back to like, look, black people got to eat over here,

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Speaker 2: you got to live here.

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Speaker 3: You can't do this, you can't do that.

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Speaker 2: And so even wealthy black people end up being basically

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Speaker 2: pushed out of out of money, like right, so like

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Speaker 2: your connections to whiteness, White banks from that, like their

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Speaker 2: banks are now just passing rules like we won't give

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Speaker 2: money black people.

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Speaker 3: It's like, well, I started a business. I'm you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm good for it, like you're black.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, And so in a way, it made people for

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Speaker 2: the next one hundred years of Jim Crow to the

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Speaker 2: Civil Rights era with segregation and stuff, it made black

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Speaker 2: people have to be together like you didn't. So like

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Speaker 2: if you wanted to continue to own a black bank,

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Speaker 2: you now have one black customers and your and and

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Speaker 2: you don't have the ability to get a loan from whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Chase family or whoever you you just

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Speaker 2: it's just you and the black people. And I wonder, like,

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Speaker 2: how did that affect our views on like what capitalism

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Speaker 2: for black people can be, because it almost by necessity,

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Speaker 2: by it almost necessitates you have to be community based

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Speaker 2: at that point, like I you know, in the last

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Speaker 2: fifty years, you kind of don't have to be but

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Speaker 2: like for a long period of time, even if you

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Speaker 2: word like an asshole, you had to be like, well,

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Speaker 2: the black people are the people that have to.

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Speaker 3: Rent from me, because those are the only people I

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Speaker 3: can rent too.

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Speaker 2: So do you see those distinctions in still to this

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Speaker 2: day and like how different black people look at like

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Speaker 2: money and capitalism and acquiring wealth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I think it shows up so visibly,

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Speaker 1: I think in the beliefs that so many of us

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Speaker 1: carry around capitalism, because it's hard to imagine being on

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Speaker 1: the winning side of something when we've been strategically and

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Speaker 1: systemically positioned to be on the losing side of it.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, when I talk to people, and I've

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Speaker 1: interviewed hundreds of people in the creation of this book,

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Speaker 1: people will say, when I ask them, how do you

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Speaker 1: define capitalism? They say, it's the root of all evil,

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Speaker 1: wall streets, the belly of the beast. Capitalism needs to

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Speaker 1: be dismantled. It has no kind of and again it's

393
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Speaker 1: not about positive or negative, but it just kind of

394
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Speaker 1: gets rooted in these kind of really visceral feelings about

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Speaker 1: whether it be informed by economic trauma in our generationally,

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Speaker 1: This idea that you kind of just can't break free

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Speaker 1: from debt or just even this kind of psychology around

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Speaker 1: money and the anxiety that we can have around money,

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Speaker 1: especially in the socio political climate that we're living in now.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it shows up and it becomes

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Speaker 1: why people might say, like, you know, capitalism, capital c

402
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Speaker 1: it's this big bad thing that it's just this engine

403
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Speaker 1: and we're just cogs in this engine and we're just

404
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Speaker 1: trying to get by and trying to maintain and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of disassociated from this sense of like agency or

406
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Speaker 1: sense of empowerment within it, but rather this thing that's

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Speaker 1: kind of happened to us and we're just trying to

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Speaker 1: survive in the midst of it. And that is a

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Speaker 1: very real reality. And I think it speaks to when structures,

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Speaker 1: structures that be that have created marginalized experiences for us,

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Speaker 1: where we have to tap into community in order to

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Speaker 1: pull resources together in order to just thrive in the

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Speaker 1: different ways and just meet our needs at a basic level.

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Speaker 1: It creates these negative associations to capitalism. But I think

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Speaker 1: it becomes then why the critiques are as they are.

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Speaker 1: As I've been talking with people and sharing this work,

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Speaker 1: it comes back to what one of my colleagues said

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Speaker 1: black capitalists don't exist the idea that okay. Rather than

419
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Speaker 1: to question capitalism itself and where we can embed agency

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Speaker 1: into our participation of it, rather we place limitations on

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Speaker 1: who we are within the context of capitalism and who

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Speaker 1: we can be within the context of it, because we

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a model whereby it could be different in

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Speaker 1: our relationship in it as a capitalist versus the laborer,

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Speaker 1: because we're always in that laborer modity position. So what

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Speaker 1: could it even look like for us to be agents

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Speaker 1: in the reproduction of capitalism with that communal mindset that

428
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Speaker 1: we've really had to have, like you spoke to abroad,

429
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Speaker 1: and so I think it shows up in the beliefs.

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Speaker 1: But what's so exciting to me is that if we

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Speaker 1: can open the aperture about what we believe and what

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Speaker 1: we can do because there's evidence for it and the

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Speaker 1: reality of this moment, then it also opens the aperture

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Speaker 1: for the behaviors that we can have within it and

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Speaker 1: create new outcomes that are more indicative of people's needs

436
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: being met, the most vulnerable populations being taken care of

437
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: and secured, And so I think that's the real opportunity.

438
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: But The conversation around capitalism and our participation and relationship

439
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: to it has been so informed by our history for

440
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: good reason. But I think there's so much room to

441
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: think about, how can it be informed by this moment

442
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: that we're living in and this kind of newness of

443
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: even having resources within the black community that feels so

444
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: new for people. It's a first generation experience even And

445
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: then how can we think about our relationship to capitalism

446
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: and a future facing kind of moment as you know,

447
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: more and more people get access to wealth for the

448
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: first time, build intergenerational wealth, even at a global scale,

449
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: not just in an American context.

450
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 4: And I think for a lot of people, and for me,

451
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 4: I think I'm one of the kind of when you

452
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 4: go generational, I am better off than a lot of

453
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: my family members, like a lot of my older family members.

454
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 4: There's some family members that that I better off than me.

455
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 4: But when you're dealing with.

456
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 5: This, it's very hard to give hope.

457
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: To people in the system like this, because I think

458
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: the biggest thing is hope because you're coming to them

459
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 4: saying that it can change, and people going, well, how

460
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 4: can it change?

461
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 5: When we had these cities and.

462
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: They were burnt down we had our own shit the

463
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 4: things that people are telling them to do. What's they're

464
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 4: telling now? Like people felt like they have these brand

465
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: new ideas when they be like, have your own things,

466
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 4: It's like, well, we had it. They burnt it down

467
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 4: then they denied us. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, they burnt

468
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 4: the whole cities down. We had our own mayors and lawyers,

469
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: and they went to Wilmlington and killed us. So it's like,

470
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: it's very hard to convince people to have hope and

471
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: faith in something that has never showed them that it

472
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 4: would even support a.

473
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 5: Wish or dream or hope. So how I'm not sure

474
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 5: for about how do you combat that?

475
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 4: Like, like how do you reach somebody who has already

476
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 4: kind of predetermined, like you said, the persons, there's no

477
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 4: black capitalism. It's like, well, it actually is, like how

478
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 4: do you get these people to see what you're saying

479
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: is the truth? But it's hard to convince people that

480
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 4: the system can benefit them mm hmmm.

481
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: H And that's where I think it has to That

482
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: conversation that I'm offering has to be situated in examples,

483
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: situated in like the practicality of how we can do

484
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: this and community and also the scalability of it, because yes,

485
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: we have those examples of where we have these isolated cities,

486
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: towns where black thriving was thriving right, and they were

487
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: systematically just dismantled. But I think what's unique, especially in

488
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: this moment, the proliferation of technology, the proliferation of just

489
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: how we're able to be so global even at the

490
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: local level and connected with one another. Social media has

491
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: transformed our ability to be in connection with each other.

492
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: And so there are all these elements that I think

493
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: add a level of nuance and newness to the conversation too.

494
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: And so, and I would also say the very fact

495
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: that we are still here as black people and still

496
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: persisting despite all of these calculated attempts to just rupture

497
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: our idea of joy, of happiness, of thriving, and yet

498
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: we are here. It's evidence to me that we still persist,

499
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: We see still try and on. That alone should give

500
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: us some of the bearing and taking heart to remember

501
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: that there's opportunity still yet to unlock despite the wreckage

502
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: that has been done against us. And I think the

503
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: way we really secure thriving for ourselves is really by

504
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: doing it together.

505
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: And I worried that the like you said, the resignation

506
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: to no hope leads to this path of like and

507
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: then there's no real responsibility to the community because nothing

508
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: can be done anyway. So it's almost like why not

509
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: be resigned to this idea of like, this is how

510
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: we have to live. We're just manipulating, abusing, and taking

511
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: advantage of each other, because it just seems like it

512
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: very rarely leads to people doing the work of like, oh,

513
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna find we're gonna get a commune

514
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: and we're gonna start trading chickens for a corn, like

515
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: we're gonna do this whole other thing. It's like, no,

516
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: it really just is like people being like it's not

517
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: gonna work, but I'm gonna just go to my job

518
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: and let what happens happen. One of the things I

519
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: think about too is obviously in America, you know, capitalism

520
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: is running muck, right, We've had the largest transfer wealth

521
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: to like this one percent of the population compared to

522
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: like what people make. You know what it used to

523
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: be like, oh, the CEO makes five times what the

524
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: lowest paid employee works or the media median employee, and

525
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: now it's like two.

526
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty times or whatever.

527
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: Right, So I think there's this obvious and justified anti

528
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: like billionaire sentiment, like this anti like dude like Elon

529
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: Musk is like renting our government, you know, Like I

530
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: get why people are like fat, and I think about

531
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: that often encapsulated in Bernie Sanders, right, this guy who

532
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: ran for office for president a couple It sounds.

533
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: Like you've been running for twelve years. But but one

534
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: of the things that to me is disappointed.

535
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: For about Bernie Sanders is that he leaves out so

536
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: much of the marginalized issues that we experience that aren't

537
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: just about being angry at billionaires. Right, So, like, totally

538
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: get it billionaires, they're they're fucking up everything.

539
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 3: Got it, Bernie.

540
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: But then when I'm like, oh, and also like they

541
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: got a bunch of racism and that's messing it up

542
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: for black folks, It's like, whoa, that's identity politics. Oh okay,

543
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: Well women don't really have access to this capital as well.

544
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: There's only like a small percentage of women that are

545
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: even able to be like CEOs of a company or something.

546
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: It's like, whoaa, stop that we're not talking about all that,

547
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: We're just talking. We're just staying angry at Bill Gates.

548
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: That's all we're doing. And I always wonder, like does

549
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: that hurt his long term message? And at this point

550
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: I have to imagine it's on purpose, Like what what

551
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: is he afraid of at this point? Because I do

552
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: think you could unify people around something where you're saying,

553
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: like to me, the biggest example was a housing crisis.

554
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: Right you had you had black people targeted by banks

555
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: to give balloon payment loans they were not going to

556
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: be able to afford. They get the house, then it

557
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: gets taken away from now they have a bunch of debt. Right.

558
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: It leads to like Wall Street having financial issues. It

559
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: leads to the largest bailout in American history, with Barack

560
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: Obama having to bail out Wall Street rather than have

561
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: the country experience financial ruin. And I've always felt like

562
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: that through line is such a perfect message for someone

563
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: like burning to be like, hey, it affects us all,

564
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: Like we should need to put some rains on this capitalism.

565
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: We need to get it in a way where, like

566
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: you said, almost like black capitalism for everybody, like a

567
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: communal way of spreading this wealth. And I feel like

568
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: that message is missed, and part of that is what

569
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: makes people give up hope and be like, it's this

570
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: is just what it is. We just have to like

571
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: go and experience it in this way. So is that

572
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: something that you've seen, like that that idea of like

573
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: the anger at rich people but not translating to any

574
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: action that we can do amongst ourselves.

575
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure. And I think that oftentimes too,

576
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: when I talk to people and they're critiquing people like

577
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: Jay Z or Beyonce, right, it becomes it's almost like

578
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: accounting of other people's wallets and what they have access to,

579
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: because it's a reflection and a reminder of what we

580
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: might not have access to, or we might not have

581
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: been able to have the opportunities and access in order

582
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: to you know, manifest those resources for ourselves. And I

583
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: think this is where so much excellent research around like

584
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: the psychology of money really shows up in some of

585
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: that economic trauma that some of us hold. Because this

586
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of critique or even hate of billionaires and you know,

587
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: their practices of tax evasion and whatnot, it's really much

588
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: like just a stark reminder of how hard it is

589
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: for so many people that are just striving to just

590
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: make it. And meanwhile, you have, as you mentioned, people

591
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: who are making two hundred and fifty times their employee

592
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: base and making a joke of it or acting as

593
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: if this doesn't matter, or that there are not real

594
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: stakes for this. And so a lot of that critique

595
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: that you see, or just kind of the anger or

596
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: rage is really kind of rooted in the reality of

597
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: we are living wildly different lives, you know, that are

598
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: not even parallel to each other. But just how is

599
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: it that you know, people can be fighting just for

600
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: their basic needs to be met, whereas if this were

601
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: something society wanted to solve, it could be solved. And

602
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: I think that's what's the tragedy of it, is that

603
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: the idea and the problem of homelessness, of you know,

604
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: the housing crisis, et cetera, et cetera. These aren't that

605
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: big of you know, a nut to crack. We could

606
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: solve it. It's very simple reality that we've just decided

607
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: as a society that we don't care.

608
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because I remember the pandemic was such

609
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: a great example of this because people were working from

610
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 2: home then we had obviously all this empty office space

611
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: in so many cities, and you know, many people presented

612
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: like some of the most obvious solutions of like, hey,

613
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 2: why do we even have homelessness? We should house people

614
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: in these empty vacant buildings downtown. And the answer from

615
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: you know, the CEO type class was like, get your

616
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: ass back to work. That's what we really need is

617
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 2: y'all to come on in office in person. And I

618
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: think remote work gave access to a lot of people

619
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: to some of the privileges and luxuries that typically went

620
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: along to like, oh, this is the whitest of white

621
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: collar job. Yes, you don't have to come into work

622
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: every day. You can do if you can just like

623
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: tap in remotely, you can do that. It's not about

624
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: watching you like a hawk every second. And yet it's

625
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: like if you almost every single time they interviewed the

626
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: people who ran the business, they would be like, no,

627
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 2: that is not what this is about. This is about

628
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: y'all need to come your ass back in here and

629
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: coughing each other's faces because I'm paying for this office space.

630
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: What do you think about the target boycott because I

631
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: feel like that is a thing that black people are

632
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: finding power and it's like collective idea and it's not

633
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: just black people. I mean, they did away with a

634
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: lot of DEI stuff. So like LGBTQ people, people like

635
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: everybody that feels a way about them saying we are

636
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: divesting from the initiatives we started for most of these

637
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: companies after George Floyd was killed.

638
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 3: Don't ask me why those two things are related. I'm

639
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 3: not sure.

640
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: But they started investing in different communities and stuff, which

641
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: I thought was a good thing.

642
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: You know at the time. I remember on our shew

643
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: being like, guys.

644
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: This may not last forever, so get money.

645
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: Happen while you can.

646
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: Okay, we've gone through this in history before the checkbooks

647
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: closed eventually.

648
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 3: But if you can get something, go ahead and get

649
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: it now. But don't necessarily.

650
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: Believe that like a change has happened in the hearts

651
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: and minds of a corporation, because it is a corporation.

652
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 5: When they're not people.

653
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're responsible to shareholders, not necessary in their minds,

654
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: not necessarily responsible to communities. But like the Target boycott,

655
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: I feel like it's kind of renewed something as far

656
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: as like community, because before this, it really feels like

657
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: it's almost hard to get the community organized, right uh uh,

658
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: And in this case, it's a boycott, which I'm not.

659
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: It's not bad, Like I like that it's a boycott,

660
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: but it's not the same as consolidating around like supporting

661
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: black businesses and like lifting ourselves out in that way.

662
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 3: But what are your thoughts on, you know, this.

663
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: Moment and how we define our power, even if in

664
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: a weird way. The power is buying into capitalism, right,

665
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: We're saying, here's our money, and we're gonna let our

666
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: money speak.

667
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: Yes. I think that's that's the that's the magic word

668
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: power because I think that oftentimes people feel most powerful

669
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: in society when they're voting, and that's an experience that

670
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: doesn't come often. It comes every so often. But the

671
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: reality is is that we should feel power every single

672
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: day because of the fact that we hold money and

673
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: we create transactions and we create exchange and so the

674
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: reality is that we're voting every single day with where

675
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: we put our money. And I think what is exciting

676
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: to me about this moment is the unification that's happening,

677
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: the kind of communal efforts that are being drawn for

678
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: people to move with one voice. I think, especially when

679
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: it comes to conversations about money. The economy, capitalism. We

680
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: have been so bifurcated in the black community where you

681
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: be an anti capitalist, a socialist, a capitalist, what have you.

682
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: And so that's created this kind of like paralysis, I

683
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: think for us to be able to move with one

684
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: unified voice, when unified wallet about how we're going to

685
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: get through this moment that we're in. So I love

686
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: it for that regard. I think what's always important when

687
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: it comes to boycotting, because that's the positionality is one

688
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: of like consumerism, right, it's like, Okay, I'm going to

689
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: withhold until my demands can be met. So one it's

690
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: what are the demands and are we demanding things in

691
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: a way that's going to be sustainable in the long term.

692
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: It's not just about when you look at these institutions,

693
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, when things are in vogue, what's the flavor

694
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: of the week, what's something that we can see as

695
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: like low hanging fruit to adjust now, but with the

696
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: intention to not create real systemic change in our organizations,

697
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: but to appease the consumer and the media so that

698
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: we can get them back and then just really kind

699
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: of exploit them in a way. And so I think

700
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: it's really important that the demands be sustainable in a

701
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: way that's going to create systemic change. And then also

702
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: I think what's really important while we're boycotting, a parallel

703
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: stream is also around how can we create channels for

704
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: greater ownership, because ideally we wouldn't be in a scenario

705
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: where we would be boycotting target first and foremost, we'd

706
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: rather have our own systems that are our operating and

707
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: in service of us, not exploiting us, that we can

708
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: turn to. And so I think it needs to be

709
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: a both ant. But in this moment where again the

710
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: majority of black people in this country, their positionality and

711
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: the relationship to capitalism is one from a consumerist standpoint,

712
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: and so if that's the case, it's like the demands

713
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: have to be in such a way that they're going

714
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: to be actionable, that they can be reported against, tracked against.

715
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 1: It's not just kind of airy hand wavy, you know, concepts,

716
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: but what is the actual bottom line around the different

717
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: demands that we have? And so I think that is

718
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: what points towards strategy kind of systemic thinking that will

719
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: create new outcomes in this bigger picture, and awareness of

720
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: the calvary isn't coming like it's all on us to

721
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: really address this, and so that piece around ownership is

722
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: so pivotal to the conversation as well.

723
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the target thing feels like such a throwback because

724
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: it is in this world where everyone's so increasingly divided,

725
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: even intra community wise. It's one of the few times

726
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: where like, I don't know black people that are like

727
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: defending targets, like I just like, it's just one of

728
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: the few times where like you can't find like even

729
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: like Tabitha Brown, who has her like livelihood tied up

730
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: in Target, well she does videos about it. It's not

731
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: a like, man, y'all need to go ahead and start shopping.

732
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: The Target's always like this. Okay, it is complicated, I understand. Listen, Okay,

733
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: So some people you can like maybe find their own

734
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 2: personal website and support them in that way. I'm not

735
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: telling y'all to do.

736
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 5: Like.

737
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: It's very much like of note that people seem to

738
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: be of like one mind. We were driving by Target

739
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: yesterday coming from the movies, and I just like, you know,

740
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: parked out front and just start judging the.

741
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: People going in. But but like I did notice we

742
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: live on black side of town.

743
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: There were no black people going in it was It

744
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: was kind of weird because like I was just joke

745
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 2: about noticing, but I was like legitimately looking like damn,

746
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: really like these these this bottom line they're reporting of

747
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: like we're losing money.

748
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 5: It is real.

749
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: And it's so interesting.

750
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: Because I said this about the NFL and the Cavernet thing.

751
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: Is it a boycott?

752
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: Are we just mad? Because I think both things are valid. Yes,

753
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 3: both things are valid.

754
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: I'm not like, this is not to dismiss black people's emotions,

755
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: but like when you're mad, there's not really a thing

756
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: they can do that's gonna make you be Like time

757
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: to start supporting the NFL, Like you're gonna be mad

758
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: until you're not mad, whether that makes sense or not.

759
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: And a boycott, as as as Rachel.

760
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: Said, you have these like trackable things when you have

761
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: like a bus boycott or something, it's like we need

762
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: these things met and then we'll all get back on

763
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: the bus.

764
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 3: I don't know that there is a.

765
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: Demand from Target that where they're gonna meet that black

766
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: people are like and then we'll be back to Target.

767
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: This may be a more permanent situation or a trickling

768
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: of people coming back. We're like Okay, I was mad,

769
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: but it's been a year and I really like the

770
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: Rocks shampoo or whatever the fuck are you selling over there?

771
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 3: Let me just go back.

772
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, And and to kind of piggyback on that, the

773
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 4: thing is the demand is to bring the DEI back,

774
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 4: like like I actually like it's people don't want to

775
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 4: admit that, but that's the demand and they are not

776
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: going to meet that right now.

777
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 5: They're not going to meet that demand.

778
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 4: So you're talking to Al Shopton isn't gonna mean anything,

779
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 4: because the thing is not only with black people mad

780
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: you When this first popped off, I seen latinos against this.

781
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 5: I see like like it was the every every group

782
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 5: with a letter was.

783
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 3: Like and Target and another thing.

784
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 2: You didn't get an influx of like white grievance people

785
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: you did, so you didn't even get like this new

786
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: income from people being like that's right, I said, get

787
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: ready to DEI and I'm gonna go buy twelve shirts

788
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: like they're like f Target too, because they were just

789
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: mad that they were even once again they weren't boycotting.

790
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 3: They were mad.

791
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 2: They were like, how dare you put like a shirt

792
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 2: for LGBTQ pride in your store, I will never shot

793
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: there again. So taking the shirt out didn't make those

794
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: people come back. They're like, if y'all, so now you're

795
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: just losing money in every direction.

796
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 5: Yes, And I personally think and think this.

797
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 4: When the decision was made, they underestimated, truthfully, how many black,

798
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 4: brown and others would invest in money in Target, and

799
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 4: how much we actually love targeting, and how for some

800
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 4: people they only went there for certain products by women,

801
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 4: black whatever, like like they would would would go out

802
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 4: of their way.

803
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: Sometimes you end up like, man, that makes the target

804
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: joke really hit because that is how you know, how

805
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: we all had the same joke, like you go on

806
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: Target for this and then you end up with one

807
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 2: hundred dollars and stuff that that maybe that is how

808
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: it hurts so bad, is because I would go in

809
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: there for bevel shaving creams, yes, and I would be like, well, damn,

810
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: I guess I'll get a plate.

811
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 4: And oh yeah, oh yeah, And that's true. Yeah I'm

812
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 4: in here for tap of the brown stuff. But because

813
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 4: the thing is Target, when people are going to Target,

814
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 4: they would have displays and their displays would be like

815
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 4: here is all but black shit, here is the black hairline.

816
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 4: Here like they would go out of their way to

817
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 4: promote here is the slight such a.

818
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: I don't need an afro pit cutting board, but I

819
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: but if I'm gonna get one, I might as well

820
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: get it while I'm out here at Target.

821
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. I feel like, yeah, a

822
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: lot of that.

823
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: I forget what they call that type of purchasing, but

824
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: that what discretionary purchasing. That has to be why these

825
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: numbers are so big, because even I didn't, I thought, like, man,

826
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 2: black people are mad, they're gonna lose some money. They

827
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: start importing to the shareholders like we are really losing money.

828
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 2: I'm like, damn that much. And it's just because I'm

829
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: sure everybody was like if I'm not getting the cutting board,

830
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: then I'm not getting the soap, and I'm not getting.

831
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 5: Yes because because the thing onna lie.

832
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 4: People used to joke about how they were going to

833
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 4: Target and you would leave out buying three and four

834
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 4: and five hundred dollars for shit.

835
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 5: Like people joke, but they really would do that.

836
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 4: And so all of a sudden, these people that would

837
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 4: go monthly or weekly, or these people that would go

838
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 4: like we're doing Women's month a certain time of the

839
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 4: year to kind of boost these sales for these things,

840
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 4: or they had special lines of things coming out. They

841
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 4: underestimated the buying power and now they do not know

842
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 4: what to do. And now everybody's looking crazy because they

843
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 4: do not know how to repair the damage. You guess

844
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 4: this rule was for federal shit. You are a public institution.

845
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 4: You did not have to opt to get your head

846
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 4: chopped off.

847
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: With you d the last thing too on that is

848
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: I think also it's systemic in the fact that white

849
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: people are always underestimate the buying power of blackness.

850
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: I don't know why you would think it.

851
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: I truly cannot I mean, other than racism, I truly

852
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: can't understand.

853
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 3: I remember Sony.

854
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 2: Their emails got hacked so like they had some leaks

855
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: come out, and the woman who ran Sony at the time.

856
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: One of the emails was her saying how they didn't

857
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: know if they should do a sequel to Denzel's Equalize

858
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: the franchise, which now has three movies, by the way,

859
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: has three of us at the time, she said, because

860
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 2: I don't think he has global appeal.

861
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 5: And I was like, do you know the world is.

862
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: More brown than white?

863
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 5: Do you know that?

864
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 2: And it's Denzel Washington, who's popular everywhere just for being

865
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: Denzel Washington. Like DIZITL Washington, low Ki might be one

866
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: of those people. You could just put his face as

867
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: the movie trailer and not even tell us the plot,

868
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: just be like Washington. Yeah, exactly, like Disnel Washington June second,

869
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna be there. I don't know what

870
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: it's about, but he doing something. So anyway, my pride

871
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: was the limits racism or prejudice or whatever. It limits imaginations.

872
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: So I would imagine that target thought. Uh in all

873
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 2: these companies getting rid of d I mean, who really cares.

874
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: How much money could we possibly be making. We're probably

875
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: spending more money to do it, And then because a

876
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: charity here come, here, come the bottom line, it's like

877
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: it was profitable. All this stuff is profitable. Black Panther

878
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: being the number one movie of all time making all

879
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: that money, that's profit. It's not a charity. You didn't

880
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: donate money to UH to the UH to, to Ryan

881
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: Coogler like you. You invested money and then you got

882
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: more money than anything else.

883
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: You were doing at the time.

884
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: And yet somehow it feels like those profits Immediately, it's

885
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: like memory hold and it's like, all right, back to

886
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: just black people don't aren't worth catering to.

887
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, And one more thing.

888
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 4: The thing is when you talk about how they always underestimating,

889
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 4: shocked and surprise, it amazes me how racism consistently reboots

890
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 4: that brings when it comes to movies, because now it's sinners,

891
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 4: but it was other movies.

892
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 5: Right, we have these other movies.

893
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: Every black person, every black person I know, is like,

894
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: when the movie coming out, we're going to see it,

895
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 2: to see it in Imax for fucking forty dollars or whatever.

896
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: Everybody going to see it, white white Hollywood is Wow.

897
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 5: It made money.

898
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: I can't believe it.

899
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: This is insane, Like, we have so much power in

900
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 2: our economic life, but they're.

901
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 5: Always a shock. And that's the part I don't get.

902
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 5: Why is it always a fucking shock?

903
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: Rachel, Let me ask you.

904
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 2: This is the current administration, Like having these people in charge,

905
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: does that do you think that makes things more difficult

906
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: or does it give people like a unifying thing to

907
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 2: rally against and come together? Like how do you feel

908
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: that will affect, you know, capital in the black community.

909
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I don't know how it will, But

910
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: how I hope it will is definitely towards unification, because

911
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: I think we are seeing in the most clear way,

912
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: there's no there are no two ways about it, that

913
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: they are not for us. You know, all that we're

914
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: seeing in terms of the political upheaval, all of the

915
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: kind of targeted ways to roll back Dee and I

916
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: and anything in the service of aquitable is disproportionately harming

917
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: and affecting us. And so in such a time as

918
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: this community and really kind of anchoring and you know,

919
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: getting together in a way to create solutions because we

920
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: can't find them outside of ourselves. And so I think

921
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: the hope I have is that just the reality of that,

922
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 1: because I think in past times, past administrations, it wasn't

923
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: so in your face, whereas now I think on the

924
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: second past and this Trump administration, the onus is really

925
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: on us to create.

926
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: They arrested Cavy Lane, detained him for a little bit

927
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas. Immigration did for like and I saw

928
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: that right where he came on the air. I'm like,

929
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 2: that man is one of the most famous people on

930
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 2: the fucking planet. And not even like his voice. I

931
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 2: don't know what he sounds like. He like mister Bean

932
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: to me, I still don't know what.

933
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 5: Oh that's a TikTok dude that don't say nothing. Oh yeah,

934
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 5: I know who he is, he don't. I don't not

935
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 5: know what that man sounds like Loki.

936
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: I do wonder it's fucked up. But if they arrested him,

937
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: did he do the thing when they was like, you know,

938
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: come with us. If he was like we need to speak,

939
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: like sir, stop doing the thing, He's like, I'm not.

940
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: I really want to know what the fun y'all doing.

941
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: But yet, like I do feel like that stuff it

942
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: is so aggressive right now, and it leads people to

943
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: community because I think that's what gets us through. Uh

944
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, not uh, not judging anybody, but I feel

945
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: like when we see a lot of the protests now

946
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: and they be very monochromatic, it's not it's not looking

947
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: a lot DEI to protest because some of us are like,

948
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: we're just doing things for us, us right now, and

949
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: y'all gotta you know, y'all go out there, get arrested,

950
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: y'all go out there in march, make you cute.

951
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: Signs like we're not knocking you for doing like go

952
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: do it just under the long fight.

953
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but just understand that I feel like black people

954
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 2: are kind of coalescing around each other right now.

955
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: Yes, and so that and in a way it does

956
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: give me hope.

957
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: But it is sad that it would take these circumstances

958
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: for that to happen, because it feels like something that

959
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: should and could happen under any administration, under any in

960
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: any direction.

961
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, I hope that stays.

962
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and I think that the moment that we're in,

963
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: the climate that we're in, it's kind of spurring us

964
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: into kind of communal behaviors and mindset. The hope then

965
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: becomes and the question is, okay, well, what are the

966
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: kind of tactics, what are the strategies that we're going

967
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: to implement, because it's not just then to be looking

968
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: towards each other. It's like, okay, how do then we

969
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: create the foundations and the kind of blueprint for how

970
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: we're going to get through these four years but long

971
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: past that, because again we are seeing it's like the

972
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: Bandai's been ripped off, you know, the reality of it.

973
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: So let's get together, let's think through the strategies that's

974
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: going to really sustain us into again, as I mentioned

975
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: at the top of this call, what's going to be

976
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: more liberatory, more equitable for all of us?

977
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, honestly, low key the easiest time

978
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: to tell who's not for the rest of the people.

979
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they stand out, and they stand out hard

980
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 4: right now, Like when you're looking more they could kind

981
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 4: of blend in with the mixed naw you king when.

982
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: You're looking at the like Black History celebration at the

983
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: White House and it's like tiger Woods and.

984
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 3: Like you know these and you're like, okay, all right,

985
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 3: you picked a side.

986
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: Thank you for letting us know. Good luck over there.

987
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: Nobody doesn't work out well. Uh, but you know those

988
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 2: that felt that, you know, you could use our community

989
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: as a covering, like to be like, I'm here because

990
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: black people love You're like, that's not true. Well I'm

991
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: black and I love them. It's like, well, good luck

992
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 2: with that, as long as you don't come over here.

993
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: But I also did want to ask you about I

994
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: hope I'm saying it's like, is it KILLI wheeya kela wail,

995
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, That's what I wanted to say.

996
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: But I listened to somewhere and interview you, and they

997
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: said Killy Willy.

998
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: And I was like, I guess I'm wrong, but now

999
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 2: can you tell us about that, like, and are you

1000
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: still like doing this that whole lifestyle brand and all that.

1001
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1002
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, So color Welle long Before is the name of

1003
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: my business. It's actually the name of a popular ganaan

1004
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: street food and it's basically, you take wright plantains, you

1005
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: dice it up, you coat it in spices, namely ginger

1006
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: that's like the star ingredient aside from the plantains, and

1007
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: then you fry up to golden perfection and you typically

1008
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: see it enjoyed with groundnuts, which is like peanuts basically.

1009
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: And I loved it growing up as a kid. My

1010
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: mom would make it for and so that was the

1011
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: beginning of what I call my plantain love story, because

1012
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: over the years, plantains grew more and more significance for me.

1013
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: Fast forward to when I was in college. You know,

1014
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: I was at NYU, just like zero money to my name,

1015
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: just trying to get through college, pay for bills, whatever.

1016
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: And I was also transitioning into a plant based diet

1017
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: at that time, and so I was trying to figure out, okay,

1018
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: like what's affordable because a lot of vegan food is

1019
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: very expensive, yes, and so you know, and so I

1020
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, what can I eat that's going to

1021
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: meet my budget? And I kind of have this like

1022
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 1: aha moment of like plantains because you know, at that

1023
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: time they've gotten more expensive, but at that time could

1024
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: get like four for a dollar in my neighborhood and so,

1025
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: and they were a dairy and meat substitute for me.

1026
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: And so I started just like eating them again, making

1027
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: all these different dishes. And then fast forward to when

1028
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: I was in grad school. I did my doctorate in

1029
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: anthropology in African American cities, but in anthropostology specifically, we're

1030
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: always kind of concerned with this question of culture. How

1031
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: do we create culture, how's it sustained? How do people

1032
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: you know, derive identity by the cultural practices they participate in?

1033
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: And I had another Aha moment of thinking about food

1034
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: as a medium to understanding culture. Because I can be

1035
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: West African, the next person can be from Latin America,

1036
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: the next person from the Caribbean. Plantains show up in

1037
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: the culinary diet across the diaspora. We might be preparing

1038
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: it differently. We might be making mofungo kelo la, whatever

1039
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: the dishes maduros, but we're all eating plantains, and so

1040
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: I loved it as a way to think about connectivity

1041
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: and community making with this flavor and kind of added

1042
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: concept around innovation, because, as I said, vegan food is

1043
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 1: very expensive, but oftentimes when I go to the grocery

1044
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: store and look at the vegan aisle, nothing was resonating

1045
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: with me culturally. And so I wanted to build a

1046
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: business that, you know, that kind of cultural familiarity, but

1047
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: then also gave you some creative and innovation because Okay,

1048
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: we can all eat plantains, but have you ever had

1049
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: a plantain chocolate chip cookie before? You might not have,

1050
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, And so I wanted to build a business

1051
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: kind of around that kind of ideation. And so I

1052
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: launched it in twenty eighteen. And I started first it

1053
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: was very grassroots. I was doing festivals and pop ups.

1054
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: I'm based in Bedstye, and so it was really in

1055
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: the neighborhood and community here, and then scaled to have

1056
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: a brick and mortar in downtown Brooklyn. I also had

1057
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,919
Speaker 1: to stand at the Barclay Center shortly thereafter as well,

1058
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: And so I was doing all that and really asking

1059
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,919
Speaker 1: myself those kind of core questions when I think about

1060
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: what it even means to practice black capitalism now that

1061
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: I'm a business owner, It's like, how do I build

1062
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: a business where the people who make up my team

1063
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: are happy to work, you know, at Kelliwilite, and that

1064
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: they feel valued for their intrinsic value as people about

1065
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: just you know, the products that they create and the

1066
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: output that they create. And so asking myself these questions

1067
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: because if I'm just here, you know, practicing capitalism, I'm

1068
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: thinking about how do I squeeze those margins? How do

1069
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: I get the most out of my team and pay

1070
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: them well but rather put that money in my pocket.

1071
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: Those aren't the questions, right, It's rather how can I

1072
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: make sure I could create a sense of equilibrium and balance,

1073
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, while still running a business and having a

1074
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: strategy around that, but also making sure and prioritizing the people.

1075
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: And so that kind of became so much of my

1076
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: journey as I thought about black capitalism and relations to

1077
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and Kali Weally, this thing that, like I said,

1078
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: has been my planting love story. And so now I've

1079
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 1: transitioned back into industry. So I work at JPMorgan Chase,

1080
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: but the business Kaliwally still exists. I do e commerce

1081
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: now as well as wholesale distribution, so we've got a

1082
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: couple of cafes in New York that carry our products

1083
00:58:58,480 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: as well.

1084
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting too, because I.

1085
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: It reminds me of the thing that made like to me, like,

1086
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: we have a segment on our show called black Capitalism.

1087
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll do we'll do that, we'll play that game

1088
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 3: in a second.

1089
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: But oh, the thing that made it so funny to

1090
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 2: me was this idea of like black people are like,

1091
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: we're fine, we're community based, we got a business, We're

1092
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: doing our thing, and I don't know what the number is,

1093
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: but there's like a number you hit and then our

1094
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 2: minds switched online into like they're somewhere in the back

1095
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 2: of the room going how do I.

1096
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 3: Squeeze the money out of my fellow coworkers.

1097
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 4: In the community, Moore, Like most of us don't function

1098
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 4: like that, you know, and for a lot of people

1099
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 4: depend on this situation.

1100
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 5: It was like I will take a pay cut before

1101
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 5: I an impact.

1102
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 3: It's just so interesting thing to.

1103
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 2: Me to be like good, good, good, good good evil,

1104
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 2: Like I'm just like what your number, Like, did they

1105
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 2: doss that line. They like, it's one thing to do

1106
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: a thing, like any any person of any race, gender

1107
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: orientation can do something and messed up Like I'm not

1108
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: saying like we need to defend people who abuse people,

1109
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 2: but it is so interesting to just magically arrive at

1110
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: They must be a bad person.

1111
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 3: It's just how else you made.

1112
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 5: One dollar too much? All of a sudden you changed.

1113
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, every day I'm looking at my bank account like.

1114
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 5: Close right, I don't know what the number is.

1115
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: Let me give a little bit away.

1116
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 2: But so we have a segment called Black Capitalism, and

1117
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: it has a song and everything, and I would like

1118
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: to do, you know, a little black capitalism with you.

1119
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: If that's okay, We're just gonna highlight a black capitalist.

1120
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 3: Let me pull up the song, the short version of it.

1121
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 3: All right, here we go.

1122
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: You may be able to hear the song. It may

1123
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 2: sound choppy, ill to know, but it's only thirty eight seconds.

1124
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: So we'll be right back.

1125
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 5: Will Smith.

1126
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 3: He y'all talking.

1127
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 5: But the only thing I'm listening to is that page.

1128
01:00:54,360 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 6: Every day we get into that patage. I hear the

1129
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 6: money talk to set that pay. I hear the money

1130
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 6: tuk to scene later.

1131
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 3: All right, Black capitalism.

1132
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: Today, we're highlighting LSU star flaw J Johnson, who plays basketball. Okay,

1133
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 2: she also wraps by the way, and you know what

1134
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: the college basketball now they have the nil deal, so

1135
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 2: you can actually make money off of brand deals while

1136
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 2: you're in school, right, Okay. So she teams up with

1137
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: Experience to wipe out five million dollars in debt for

1138
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 2: Louisiana family.

1139
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 5: Go ahead. Wow.

1140
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 2: So she's she's a spokesperson for this initiative that will

1141
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: benefit five thousand families in the state. She's a strong

1142
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: she's a junior business major and her she's a strong

1143
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 2: advocate for financial literacy.

1144
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 4: Uh.

1145
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: She said, you know what's bigger than basketball, Financial empowerment.

1146
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: She says in the new commercial finances are tough, and

1147
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: Experience is helping the next generation pursue their dreams. That's

1148
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: why I'm excited to announce Experience is wiping out five

1149
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: million of debt for the families in Louisiana. Money isn't everything,

1150
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 2: but you needed to live a good life. The Experience

1151
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: app can help you save time and money, build your credit,

1152
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: and help you gain more knowledge in finances.

1153
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it was it was.

1154
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 5: Shout out to her because not funny.

1155
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 4: We the only people that's gonna actually come to come

1156
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 4: to them with these ideas in the first place. And

1157
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 4: so the company not on fundy wouldn't have thought about

1158
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 4: this in their own And this is one of the,

1159
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 4: if not real close to one of the poorest states

1160
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 4: in the country now, and she's like, Hey, I'm giving

1161
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 4: y'all a chance, you know, your family, a chance where

1162
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 4: y'all can get out here and create some financial wealth.

1163
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 4: Because the thing is, once you get into debt, it

1164
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 4: is very hard. It takes decades sometimes generations to get

1165
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 4: out of that debt.

1166
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 3: The other thing that it makes me think about, she's

1167
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 3: twenty one.

1168
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 2: To be me thinking like this at twenty one, Yes,

1169
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 2: at twenty one, because I'm be real like if they

1170
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: came to me it was like, hey, we want to

1171
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,439
Speaker 2: brand deal, have much money.

1172
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, whatever y'all want me to say, I'll experience.

1173
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: It's the best to even be like, Yo, how does

1174
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 2: this help the community that I play basketball in that

1175
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: is a very black state.

1176
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 3: For the record, like Louisiana Alabama.

1177
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 2: Even though people can think of them as conservative red states,

1178
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 2: they're conservative and red because of voter suppression. They're conservative

1179
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 2: and red because of marginalization. So for her to even

1180
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: be attached to something that's gonna benefit these families is amazing.

1181
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 4: And another thing back to the conversation before, you have

1182
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 4: a generation that has hope that sometimes our generation lost

1183
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 4: in the mix somewhere because life just beat us up.

1184
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 4: And you also now you have to come in with

1185
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 4: already having a brand, already having a name.

1186
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 5: Like like like like the things that a lot of

1187
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 5: us were taught later on in life.

1188
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 4: It's like they grew up in the generation of the

1189
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: Internet and the generation of your appearance meant something, your

1190
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 4: online prisons meant something, followers and all that stuff.

1191
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 2: And they've probably been educated and activated via social media

1192
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 2: as well to be like this is even on my peripheral.

1193
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they see what works and what doesn't work,

1194
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 4: and they've probably seen people fail and things like that.

1195
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 5: So they're for even though I still also think that's

1196
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 5: really young.

1197
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 4: They came in with like a package, like they sat

1198
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 4: down and talked to somebody and kind of got that

1199
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 4: package together and then presented it.

1200
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's any good for her? Can you tell me?

1201
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 3: Can you tell people where.

1202
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 5: To get the buck? You know?

1203
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: And is dropping all of that good stuff, so we

1204
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 2: can help you also get some of this capital and

1205
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 2: hopefully get educated and get some like hope and knowledge

1206
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: about us as well.

1207
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for that question. So the book drops

1208
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: June tenth, so just a few short days Tuesday, June tenth,

1209
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: and you can get it wherever you buy books, make

1210
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: it a black owned bookstore. There's so many that you

1211
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: can access. Some that I love, Baldwin and Co. They're

1212
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: based in Nola, having even my launch this Tuesday for

1213
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: anyone that's local, in partnership with Cafe com Libros, as

1214
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: well as a retailer next Friday for another event, Black

1215
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: Gotham Experience, also based in New York, and so there

1216
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: are a lot of excellent bookstores to grab the book from.

1217
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: And I think just the biggest hope for the book

1218
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: is around unified action. We spoke to it a little

1219
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: bit before around you know, we've been having decades long

1220
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: conversation conversations about our relationship to the economy, what we

1221
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: should do, how do we create economic power that's going

1222
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: to create new outcomes for ourselves. And you know, while

1223
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: the conversation is worthy and important and necessary, action is

1224
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: what's going to make the difference. And so the hope

1225
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: is you get the book, you read it, you know,

1226
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: you lock arms with folks, you debate, we talk through it,

1227
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: but we land on what is it we're going to

1228
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: do to get us from now to that point of

1229
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: real liberation for us? And so yeah, I just hope

1230
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: folks are able to enjoy it. Let me know what

1231
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: they think, because I really do hope and think that

1232
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: there's so much promise for us, and so it's really

1233
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: about how can we create the strategy to tap into that.

1234
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,439
Speaker 3: Well, that's dope. Like I said, I don't we don't

1235
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 3: know each other or whatever. It's our first time meaning.

1236
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 2: But I'm very like proud of the fact that like

1237
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 2: writing the books hard anyway. But yeah, just the fact

1238
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 2: that you're willing to like entertain hanging this conversation in

1239
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: this time, because I feel like it's such a like

1240
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: triggering even the phrase it's like, oh, I'm ready to

1241
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 2: kill somebody or just off of I don't even want

1242
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 2: to discuss it. So like you know, I'm just look,

1243
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: we're gonna put the prayer hands around you and that

1244
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 2: you know your online and everything is fine with it

1245
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: because it's definitely a worthwhile conversation and something that I

1246
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 2: wish people did approach with nuance because it's not as

1247
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: simple as you know, a X amount of money, bad person,

1248
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: and we just need to get away from that because

1249
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 2: we're gonna need resources to survive, even let alone to thrive.

1250
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 2: So make sure you check the book out. It's Black

1251
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 2: Capitalist Plural, a blueprint for what is possible. We'll have

1252
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 2: the link in the show notes when the episode is out,

1253
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: and we'll see y'all again throughout the week. I know

1254
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 2: Tuesday we have Brandon Collins on from Drunk Black History,

1255
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 2: so it will definitely be here Tuesday, and it'll really

1256
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 2: depend on how we feel Monday and Wednesday if we

1257
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 2: do the regular show or not, so you know, we'll

1258
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 2: talk to you guys then.

1259
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: Until next time, I love you, I love you too,

1260
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 3: te