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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you

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Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you

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Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the

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Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. We are broadcasting live from the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: New Energy Finance Summit in New York City. One big

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Speaker 1: question is about natural gas, especially as it increasingly replaces

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Speaker 1: coal fueled power plants, and we are so lucky to

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Speaker 1: have with us. Greg vs He is chief executive officer

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Speaker 1: and managing director of llen G Limited based in Houston,

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Speaker 1: joining us here New York. Greg, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being here. Let's just start with the idea of

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Speaker 1: llen G, a major natural gas supplier working on a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of projects right now, trying to build out

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure at a time when natural gas prices have

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Speaker 1: kind of declined. Give us a sense of the layout

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Speaker 1: of land from your perspective. Sure will, and thanks Lisa all.

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Speaker 1: It's great to be here. Uh, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: interesting across the globe how competitive And I never thought

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Speaker 1: in thirty nine years of the U S Energy industry

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Speaker 1: that I'd be saying how competitive US gas is for export.

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Speaker 1: And what people across the globe are seeing is this

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Speaker 1: huge resource that we continue to make more and more of.

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Speaker 1: It's at a price at Henry Hub, which is a

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Speaker 1: stable price. Now I'm used to huge volatility in this price.

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Speaker 1: They look out and see it very stable, and it's

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Speaker 1: a very favorable political and business environment. So it's very

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Speaker 1: much pointing to the US to be a place to come.

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Speaker 1: All right, who's coming here? Is it? China? Uh? If

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Speaker 1: you look out, the big the big growth areas are

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Speaker 1: going to be Europe and China. Um, I shouldn't say

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Speaker 1: Europe and China, Europe and Asia. Obviously China the biggest

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Speaker 1: component of Asia. But yes, Europe and China the two

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Speaker 1: that are really hitting it hardest right now. Europe. It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: We had a kind of a industry meeting in Berlin

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back, and the German Minister of

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Speaker 1: Energy made the point of saying, we used to say

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Speaker 1: we're all about being electrified, now we're saying natural gas

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Speaker 1: is the best next step for us to take. That's

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Speaker 1: a huge change for them, and they're gearing up. They're

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Speaker 1: looking at re gas facilities. The whole region is putting

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Speaker 1: in re gas facilities. They're very focused on l and

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Speaker 1: G and Gulf Coast. L en G is going US.

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Speaker 1: Gulf Coast ellency is going to be the most affordable

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Speaker 1: and competitive for them. So great, let's let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the Gulf Coast. Is the infrastructure there and the Gulf

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Speaker 1: Coast right now to really take advantage of this robust

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Speaker 1: demand you've been talking about. It really is more so

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana. I think that you know because of where

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Speaker 1: Henry Hub is, it was originally designed to be the

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Speaker 1: place where all the gas comes on shore. Well that

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Speaker 1: model is completely reversed now all the gas is up

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Speaker 1: north and it's coming to the south, but the hub

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Speaker 1: is still that indicate that everyone will look at, and

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Speaker 1: all the end of the infrastructure has been built around that.

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Speaker 1: So there's pipes that were granted, they were intended to

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Speaker 1: take gas from south to north. Now they're all turning

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Speaker 1: around and bringing gas from north to south. But it

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Speaker 1: can bring huge amounts of that gas at competitive it's

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Speaker 1: to the Gulf coast, and you have a very friendly

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Speaker 1: environment in southwest Louisiana where we are. They are really excited.

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Speaker 1: They want to be like leading the US and leading

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Speaker 1: the world in lergy exports, and they are ready for

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Speaker 1: all that infrastructure development. How quickly does the US give

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Speaker 1: out permits for you to do these projects. It's a

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Speaker 1: great discussion, Lisa Um. It's not a quick process, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't designed to be because it's the first and

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Speaker 1: foremost to make sure it's the right thing for the

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Speaker 1: country to do and to do it safely. As the

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Speaker 1: process gotten faster, it has gotten faster. Yes, I think

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Speaker 1: what we experienced and you're we're fully permitted. We've been

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Speaker 1: through all the FIRC in the deal. We were ready

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Speaker 1: to go with our Magnolia project. That was probably a

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Speaker 1: two and a half year, three year exercise. It's a

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Speaker 1: little faster than that, but not materially, and I think

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Speaker 1: as as business people and citizens, we should be a

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Speaker 1: little bit okay with that that it's a good process

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Speaker 1: that works. How competitive is US natural gas on the

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Speaker 1: world market and what needs to change maybe to make

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Speaker 1: it more competitive? You know, it's been very competitive of

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Speaker 1: the market that we all looked at was Europe, and

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Speaker 1: about a year and a half ago it turned where

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Speaker 1: it was much more competitive. It was very competitive versus

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Speaker 1: europe gas. And you've had a little downturn this winner

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Speaker 1: both in Asia and Europe, so it's kind of borderline, um,

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Speaker 1: but it's still very competitive on the world stage. What

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Speaker 1: you have to look for, you know, what we call

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Speaker 1: freight on free on board, where it's picked up at

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Speaker 1: the tailgate of a US plan, is a very competitive price.

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Speaker 1: Then it's how far do you have to pay transportation

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Speaker 1: to travel? All right? So we are at the New

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Speaker 1: Energy Finance Summit and natural gas is definitely a growing

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Speaker 1: source of energy, but it's not a new energy and

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, especially as it competes with renewable sources

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Speaker 1: of energy, how does it compete environmentally? So it's it's

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Speaker 1: a great question. I think there's two things. It's very

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Speaker 1: necessary for renewables because you have the intermittency of renewables.

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Speaker 1: Natural gas is a quick startup and can do that.

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Speaker 1: I think the US has shown the world a great

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Speaker 1: example that natural gas is an excellent bridge fuel. And

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Speaker 1: how long that bridge fuel is we don't know, but

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Speaker 1: the market brought permissions down in the US by switching

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Speaker 1: from coal to natural gas. The rest of the world

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Speaker 1: has seen that and they want to replicate that. So

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Speaker 1: still that just real quickly that where's the price of

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Speaker 1: gas and what kind of how do you view it

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Speaker 1: right now? Well, it's interesting at the price of us

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Speaker 1: Henry hub Is is probably two eighty to three dollars um.

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Speaker 1: When I started in the industry in it was two dollars,

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Speaker 1: So that that tells you that's a very competitive price.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that the volatility that we see

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Speaker 1: over the Winner hasn't been there this year. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the price got to its lowest point on If you

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Speaker 1: remember that coldest day of the year when people in

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Speaker 1: Chicago couldn't go out of their apartments, it's it's the

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Speaker 1: day of the price was the lowest is Winner? Okay? Interesting?

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Speaker 1: Greg vc, CEO and Managing director of l n G

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Speaker 1: A Limited based in Houston, Texas, but joining us here

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Speaker 1: at the Bloomberg dew Energy Finance Conference in New York.

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Speaker 1: We are broadcasting live from the Bloomberg New Energy Finance

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Speaker 1: Summit at the Grand Height Hotel in Midtown, Manhattan. And

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Speaker 1: when I think New energy. I think solar, I think wind.

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Speaker 1: I think there's big wind farms onshore, offshore generating electricity.

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Speaker 1: So that's why I am very excited for our next guest,

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Speaker 1: John Lavelle. John is the president and chief executive officer

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Speaker 1: of Offshore Wind for Ge Renewable Energy. He joins us

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Speaker 1: here in New York. John, Welcome. Thanks. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I think about some of these big offshore wind farms,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just you know, you could really think

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Speaker 1: about the scale of this business. So if you could

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Speaker 1: just start us off in this size up what the

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Speaker 1: global wind business is and kind of the growth story though. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you think about it today, there's about seventy gigawatts

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Speaker 1: of offshore wind installed globally, uh, and conservative estimates would

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Speaker 1: have that go into ninety gigawatts by That would be

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Speaker 1: comparable to the entire installed base of the Okay for example. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But I think beyond that, China, Taiwan, create Asia, the

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Speaker 1: northeast of the US are coming strong, and I think

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Speaker 1: that number could grow by another fifty percent, So I

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Speaker 1: think you could end up with fifty gig watts globally. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So demand and use of wind power definitely increasing, and

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Speaker 1: there has been a consolidation as far as market share

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Speaker 1: goes with General Electric invest as some of the other

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Speaker 1: big turbine producers. Profitability, however, has been a challenge. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about why UH profitability fell

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Speaker 1: at the end of last year and kind of what

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Speaker 1: we'll what we'll pick it back up going forward. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, from an offshore wind perspective, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: just getting in the game, you know, so Gees not

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Speaker 1: UH has not historically been in offshore wind. We got

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Speaker 1: into offshore wind when we acquired Alstom. So our game

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Speaker 1: today is to invest, to generate, to develop the technology

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Speaker 1: to compete in the future. So we're we've invested, we're

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Speaker 1: investing now two developed the Holly at X, which is

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Speaker 1: the largest offshore wind turbine in the world by far um.

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Speaker 1: It'll stand nearly nine feet off the ocean floor, the

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Speaker 1: blades will be well over a football field long each

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Speaker 1: and it will drive the economics low for our customers

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Speaker 1: and if we can help our customers compete and grow,

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Speaker 1: we'll be successful to in the future. So our our

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Speaker 1: our point is we're gonna we're investing and offshore because

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Speaker 1: we see the market growing. We see that GE can

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Speaker 1: add value with technology development. We know how to do that.

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Speaker 1: We have a global scale. We've been in the energy

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Speaker 1: industry for a hundred years. Of all the electricity that's

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Speaker 1: produced comes from some form of G technology. So I

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Speaker 1: think we can help the industry grow by playing So

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Speaker 1: how competitive is wind energy relative to maybe traditional energy

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Speaker 1: sources and maybe even Yeah, it's a great question because

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Speaker 1: you you know, in the end, you have to compete

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Speaker 1: right against everything and uh and as you as we

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Speaker 1: look at these technologies. Uh, in all the business I've

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Speaker 1: run and worked in every facet of the energy industry,

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Speaker 1: so I've watched the costs come down with volume. So

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a volume curve as cost comes out.

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Speaker 1: More volume you have, the more productive you have, the

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Speaker 1: more scale you have, the more your costs will compete.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing bids now in the UK. UK auctions will

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Speaker 1: come up in June. You'll see those prices. We've seen

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Speaker 1: the auctions in Germany. Uh, you saw the auction in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: You've got offshore wind now competing with with on shore

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Speaker 1: levels that have had a you know, almost two decades

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Speaker 1: of a head start, right, So you see the costs

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Speaker 1: come down. You want to get to the point where

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Speaker 1: it's unsubsidized so that you can compete without subsidies, with

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Speaker 1: zero subsidies. UH. And what helps you get there. It's scale,

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Speaker 1: it's size, so that you get you you minimize your infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Every we we had a six megawatt machine, now we

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Speaker 1: go to a twelve. That means you have to build

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Speaker 1: half the pedestals out in the ocean, you have to

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Speaker 1: build half the cabling. It's easier to service. So as

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Speaker 1: you take cost out and you get volume, volume and

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Speaker 1: size and standardization will help the industry. So John Leavel,

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Speaker 1: president and CEO of for the offshore wind unit of

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Speaker 1: GE Renewable Energy with us here right now, I'm wondering,

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Speaker 1: how about storage. That's been one of the challenges, certainly

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Speaker 1: for solar. What about winds? Yeah, a great question. In

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Speaker 1: our renewable energy portfolio. UH. In g E, we have

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Speaker 1: on shore and offshore wind. We've got hydro. We got

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Speaker 1: a hydro business. We have an LM Blade Manufacturing, we

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Speaker 1: acquired them in two thousand seventeen, the largest maker of blades.

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Speaker 1: We have a grid business. G IS Grid all the

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Speaker 1: transmission and distribution and very, very important to have that

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Speaker 1: grid business marry up with the wind because you have

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Speaker 1: to be able to stabilize the grid as you convert

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Speaker 1: from baselow nuclear and coal to cyclical renewables. And then

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Speaker 1: you get the storage. Should we also have a hybrid

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Speaker 1: and storage business that we've just put in place, And

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Speaker 1: so I think, uh, the value of us being able

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Speaker 1: to bring green electrons if you will, two people that

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Speaker 1: want it, not just households, but two companies that have said, well,

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Speaker 1: by green having a storage so you can store the

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Speaker 1: the wind energy. How I just think I'm through battery story,

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Speaker 1: through battery battery storage. Yeah. Yeah. You can decide where

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Speaker 1: you want to put it. Where you want to store it.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to store it at the site. Do

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Speaker 1: you want to store at a local distribution, uh network

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Speaker 1: out in your neighborhood? You know? Where do you store it? So? What?

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the constraints, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: want a big wind thing in my backyard. Maybe? How

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Speaker 1: about for offshore? What are the constraints whoever owns who

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Speaker 1: has the rights to that water? Say, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to decide where to put these things. Keeping it simple, Paul,

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Speaker 1: I think normally it's the government the land, all right,

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Speaker 1: and we'll allocate the land through some process, whether it's

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Speaker 1: in the US, Taiwan, Japan, China, uh, you know, UK, whatever,

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Speaker 1: they allocate the land. Uh. Then in all the cases

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Speaker 1: they have to go through some permit process typical to

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Speaker 1: a zoning board in the local town. You'll say this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be built. You have so many so much

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Speaker 1: time to raise your questions or your concerns that have

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Speaker 1: to come. And it's a lot. It's the birds, right,

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Speaker 1: So there's concerned for the birds. Uh, there's concerned for

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Speaker 1: the site in the visual impact it may have for

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Speaker 1: local residents. So putting these things deeper and deeper into

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Speaker 1: the ocean, it becomes uh um, you know a question

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Speaker 1: for that helps right farther you're out. But then gott

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Speaker 1: to bring the power back. You have to bring the

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Speaker 1: power back. So some of the some of the projects

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Speaker 1: like are going on in the UK now are so

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Speaker 1: far off they're gonna use high voltage DC interesting to

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Speaker 1: bring them back. John Lavell, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: being with you. John Lavell, President, chief executive Officer of

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Speaker 1: the Offshore Wind Unit at GE Renewable Energy, joining us

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Speaker 1: here at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Conference. We're a

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Speaker 1: broadcasting life from the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Summit at

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Speaker 1: the Grand Hyatt Hotel in Niptown, Manhattan. Right now, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna turn our attention to the America power markets. A

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Speaker 1: lot of change going on there as renewable sources compete

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Speaker 1: with some of the more traditional sources of energy in

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Speaker 1: this country. To help us walk through that story, as

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Speaker 1: Paul Browning, Paul is the President chief executive officer of

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Speaker 1: Mitsubichi Hitachi Power Systems America's Paul, welcome U to the show. Paul,

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Speaker 1: give us a sense a kind of where we are

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Speaker 1: in the US in terms of power generation to what

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Speaker 1: extent are renewables really becoming a competitive player in the marketplace? Well, thanks,

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Speaker 1: Paul and Lisa. Um. Yeah, so there's really a lot

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Speaker 1: of change happening in the power sector right now. We

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Speaker 1: are seeing the cost of electricity from renewables and battery

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Speaker 1: storage dropping rapidly. At the same time, we're actually also

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Speaker 1: seeing the cost of electricity from natural gas power generation

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Speaker 1: dropping rapidly as well. Um, And so there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a you know, a real uh competitive dynamic. They're happening

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Speaker 1: between renewables with storage and natural gas competitive endemic or

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Speaker 1: race to the bottom, either one go on. And of

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Speaker 1: course it depends. You know, the cost of renewables. You

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Speaker 1: know that the cost of solar here in New York

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Speaker 1: City is very different than in the desert in Arizona. Um,

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Speaker 1: the cost of natural gas and different parts of the

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Speaker 1: country is different. So you know a lot at the times.

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Speaker 1: The answer to you know, which one of these is

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Speaker 1: going to be less expensive is you know, it depends.

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Speaker 1: So but in this race, a lot of governments have

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Speaker 1: subsidized the renewables to try to reduce the carbon emissions.

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Speaker 1: How much is that necessary to get the renewable market

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Speaker 1: up to speed to truly be competitive in a free

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Speaker 1: market type of environment. You know right now renewable plus

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Speaker 1: battery storage needs a subsidy in order to compete with

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Speaker 1: natural gas in almost every market. Significant subsidy, well investment

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Speaker 1: tax credit that exists today is the kind of subsidy

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Speaker 1: it needs to be competitive in in in some markets.

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Speaker 1: Um and so uh and and you know the thing

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Speaker 1: that I always talk to people about is is um.

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Speaker 1: You know, natural gas is not standing still. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: our turbans are less expensive today on a dollar per

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Speaker 1: killer lot basis than they were in the past. They're

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Speaker 1: more freel efficient, and the price of natural gases dropping

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Speaker 1: due to new drilling technologies, so, you know, while and

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Speaker 1: the good thing for consumers is they're getting lower carbon,

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Speaker 1: lower cost electricity, you know, as we all compete with

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Speaker 1: one another in a you know, in a marketplace where

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Speaker 1: competition and technology is determining who wins. So it is

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Speaker 1: big coal in terms of the context of energy or electricity.

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Speaker 1: Is big coal just done? Is its day over well

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Speaker 1: in the United States right now, it's just it's cheaper

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Speaker 1: to produce electricity from natural gas and renewables than it

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Speaker 1: is from coal, And of course it's also much more

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Speaker 1: carbon efficient, and that combination of cost and carbon efficiency

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Speaker 1: is just very, very difficult to beat. So I really

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Speaker 1: don't see any new coal power plants being built. And

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, what we're seeing is a

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Speaker 1: lot of you know, coal that was built in the

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Speaker 1: sixties and seventies is now being retired and it's being

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Speaker 1: replaced by a combination of natural gas and renewables. So

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Speaker 1: talking about bringing down the cost, how does artificial intelligence

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Speaker 1: play into this, especially as it takes over the human

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Speaker 1: component of running some of these plants. Yeah, so, actually,

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Speaker 1: you know AI, what we're really not there's only about

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Speaker 1: thirty five people who work in a combined cycle natural

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Speaker 1: gas power plant, and actually less than that in a

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Speaker 1: renewable power plant. We're actually not going after the people

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Speaker 1: with our AI. What we're really going after our lost

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Speaker 1: production and unplanned downtime, which are very big expenses for

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Speaker 1: our customers. So we're trying to eliminate unplanned maintenance because

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Speaker 1: the AI is able to identify a problem before it

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Speaker 1: becomes a problem, and we turn unplanned maintenance into planned

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Speaker 1: maintenance and and do it in a very cost effective way.

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Speaker 1: Paul Sweeney, this is such an interesting point because people

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Speaker 1: look at artificial intelligence is the bogeyman at the boogeyman

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Speaker 1: for why people are losing their jobs. But this is

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Speaker 1: an example of how to increase productivity and profitability without

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Speaker 1: actually cutting jobs. Yeah, exactly. It's interesting. But just technology

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Speaker 1: in general, is how much is that impacting the traditional

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Speaker 1: power business in the in the U S. When I

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Speaker 1: think of these power plants, I think these monster things. Again.

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Speaker 1: I live New Jersey, so I see these monster plants

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Speaker 1: all over the place. We have lots of power plants

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Speaker 1: and lots of plants and new but house technology impacting

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Speaker 1: just that creation electricity. Yeah. So as as I said

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Speaker 1: before that you know that the biggest impact is the

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Speaker 1: cost of renewables, storage and natural gas power generation are

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Speaker 1: all dropping dramatically and so and those happen to be

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Speaker 1: the most carbon efficient choices that we have right now.

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Speaker 1: You know that combination of natural gas and renewables is

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Speaker 1: about eight lower CEO two emissions than a retiring coal

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Speaker 1: fired power plant. So we're actually in the US people

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize this. In the US

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Speaker 1: power sector, carbon emissions are down thirty three since two

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Speaker 1: thousand five. UM. We sponsor Carnegie Mellon University that they

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Speaker 1: have a website that the Switch from It's it's the

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Speaker 1: switch from coal to a combination of gas and renewals

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Speaker 1: and you can go to www dot Emissions index dot

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Speaker 1: org and once a quarter we update that number. One word,

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Speaker 1: Paul Browning, if you've been in this market for decades,

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Speaker 1: if you had to invest in one renewable energy source,

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Speaker 1: what would it be. I just started a renewable power

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Speaker 1: technology company yesterday there announced it's it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: distributed power generation for PV solar and battery storage. There

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Speaker 1: you go, solar and battery storage. Paul Browning, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being with us. Paul Browning as President,

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Speaker 1: chief executive officer of Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems America's joining

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Speaker 1: us here at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Conference. So

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Speaker 1: interesting to sort of see the price dynamic as everybody

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Speaker 1: tries to bring costs down, including gas, so it makes

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Speaker 1: it a kind of shifting competitive landscape. Some big news

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Speaker 1: in the healthcare industry four the United States President Trump's administration,

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice coming out and now trying to

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Speaker 1: claim that the entirety of the Obamacare Act is unconstitutional.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now is Max Nisson, biotech, fharma and healthcare

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Speaker 1: columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. Joining us from our Bloomberg Interactive

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Speaker 1: Broker Studios. Max, what exactly just happened and how big

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Speaker 1: of a reversal is it by the do o J.

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Speaker 1: It's a pretty substantial one. So the d o J

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Speaker 1: had had previously supported the lawsuit in partial form, and

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Speaker 1: that itself was pretty unusual. You know, the d o

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Speaker 1: J generally tends to defend the law of the land

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Speaker 1: as opposed to um, you know, supporting case Concer. But

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Speaker 1: they had only they had elected to keep big chunks

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Speaker 1: of the A C A. So this move would basically

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Speaker 1: means that they're supporting a dramatically more disruptive potential result

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Speaker 1: in which really the entire and the entirety of the

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Speaker 1: A C A would go away. That's everything from the

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Speaker 1: Medicaid expansion to the changes to the individual market protections

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Speaker 1: for people with pre existing conditions, and you know, little

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Speaker 1: things like calorie counts on menus and the FDAs ability

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Speaker 1: to approved by similars. It would be just a giant mess. So, Max,

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Speaker 1: what do you think changed for the Trump administration to

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Speaker 1: take this more aggressi approach here? I'm actually still trying

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Speaker 1: to puzzle that out because from a purely kind of

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Speaker 1: political and policy standpoint, it's it's pretty puzzling. You know,

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Speaker 1: the ten mid terms kind of told us that Americans

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Speaker 1: are gravitating towards liking the A C A more than

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Speaker 1: they did over the initial years of his implementation, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the move to to kind of more aggressively

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Speaker 1: try to take it away, uh not only kind of

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Speaker 1: goes against what the lesson that the administras should probably

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Speaker 1: should have learned. But against even its own budget, which

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Speaker 1: you know still you know, has massive cuts to Medicaid

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Speaker 1: and UH repeals parts of the a c A. But

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Speaker 1: doesn't you know, do what this case does and just

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, potentially rip away coverage from from

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Speaker 1: tens of millions of Americans overnight. Yeah, I'm wondering from

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Speaker 1: a market perspective, are their companies that you would expect

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Speaker 1: would either benefit or UH lose out should the Department

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Speaker 1: of Justice be successful in this attempt. So the you know,

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Speaker 1: insures that are focused on on medicaid and the individual

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Speaker 1: market would definitely suffer. You know, they would get some

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Speaker 1: some market power back in the form of reduced regulation,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the millions of customers they lose with

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Speaker 1: would outweigh that, especially in the near term. And then

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Speaker 1: hospitals in the sense that you know, when people don't

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Speaker 1: have courbadge that they don't get care. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's still pretty unlikely that this case will will go

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Speaker 1: through or you know, actually end up invalidating the a

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Speaker 1: c A because it's based on pretty shaky legal ground

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Speaker 1: of the idea that you know, negating the penalty of

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Speaker 1: the individual mandate somehow means that the entirety of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the law when should be invalid when Congress

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Speaker 1: is pretty explicitly given an indication that it doesn't think

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Speaker 1: that's going to be the case, because when it had

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to do exactly that, it elected not to. So, Max,

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Speaker 1: what do you think the next steps are here? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think we'll see kind of an aggressive

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Speaker 1: pushback from Democrats who are actually, you know, outloading a

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Speaker 1: set of bills that would actually strengthen the A c

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Speaker 1: A today in in pretty pretty good timing for them.

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Speaker 1: It just gives them a kind of a new avenue

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Speaker 1: of attack and and a really immediate one. Well, but

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Speaker 1: Maxie said of liberal opinion, this is exactly where I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go with you, this whole political deliberation. What

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Speaker 1: politically was President Trump trying to go for, perhaps the

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Speaker 1: Department of Justice, given the fact that in the midtell

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Speaker 1: elections it did seem like voters did want the Obamacare,

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Speaker 1: they did want some sort of healthcare base for people

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Speaker 1: who might work you know, gigs or things where they

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Speaker 1: don't get healthcare. Yeah, I that's what makes this so inexplicable,

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Speaker 1: and beyond just what you saw in the mid terms,

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Speaker 1: you also have a bunch of states and and pretty

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Speaker 1: republican states electing to adopt the medicaid expansion that we

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Speaker 1: had through through referendums. Now even Kansas is considering it,

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Speaker 1: So that the move to kind of try to uproot

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Speaker 1: this law entirely is really just at the moment at

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Speaker 1: least inexplicable, maybe a triumph of of ideology over over

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Speaker 1: smart strategic political thinking. I really don't know what what

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Speaker 1: they had in mind. Maybe we'll find out, but it

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Speaker 1: clearly seems to indicate that they haven't really learned the

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Speaker 1: political lesson about healthcare, and they're gonna campaign on a

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Speaker 1: full repeal once again, which I don't think will work

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Speaker 1: out terrifically well for them. Max. Do you think this

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Speaker 1: was just a coincidence that the Muller report comes out

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Speaker 1: and gives the president of victory and and then we've

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Speaker 1: kind of got this announcement or just I mean, if

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Speaker 1: it was deliberate, I can't imagine what what the thinking was,

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00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: because you know, it gives Democrats are ready made opportunity

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Speaker 1: to pivot towards an issue that's a clear winner for

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Speaker 1: them with voters as opposed to the Miller Report, which

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Speaker 1: you know, I haven't seen the whole thing, but you know,

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Speaker 1: at least optically, at least in the beginning stages, didn't

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Speaker 1: seem to damage the president as much as some people expected.

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Speaker 1: So now they have a perfect opportunity to pivot away

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Speaker 1: from it, and they'll use it. So we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this before, Max, and that is that Obamacare is not perfect.

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Speaker 1: It's been highly flawed. The rollout was not perfect. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there are ways to make it better. There's a question of,

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Speaker 1: you know, could this be uh the first step in

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Speaker 1: the GOP presenting some sort of plan of their own

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Speaker 1: to grab with some of the healthcare issues problems in

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Speaker 1: the United States. You know, they if there's such a

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Speaker 1: plan from the Trump administration, it doesn't really exist or

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Speaker 1: doesn't deviate particularly far from you know, what they what

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Speaker 1: they tried and failed to pass over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, which you know, the main effect of that

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Speaker 1: was to basically kick a lot of people off their coverage,

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Speaker 1: make government healthcare and it's generally more difficult to access,

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Speaker 1: and reduce regulation. Um. Other than that, there's not kind

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Speaker 1: of an overwriting ethos or or any plan that does

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Speaker 1: much more anything different than that. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: if one exists, we've yet to see it. Maybe it'll come.

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Speaker 1: But considering that this, you know, this would repeal the

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Speaker 1: law with without any effort at a replacement, and just

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Speaker 1: rely on a divided Congress to to finally, I guess

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Speaker 1: come up with something. Uh just don't don't don't see yet, Maxineessa,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Max's Biotech format and healthcare calumness for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion, joining us in our Bloomberg eleven three oh studios.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm

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00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa abram Woyit's I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa abram woits one before the podcast,

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