WEBVTT - #424 Maggie Freleng with Odelia and Nerissa Quewezance 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.520 On February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety three, police were called 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.680 to a house in a remote area in Saskatchewan, Canada. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.960 They arrived to a horrific and bloody scene. Seventy year 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.040 old Joseph Dolph was lying face down on his bedroom 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:26.200 floor dead. He had been beaten and stabbed multiple times. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.440 The house was in shambles and there had obviously been 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.360 a violent struggle that morning. O'delia and Nerissa Cusance and 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.559 their cousin Jason Kashane were picked up by police. The 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.280 sisters were held at the station for five days and 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.879 questioned repeatedly without counsel. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.720 These were two young Indigenous women trying to cope with 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.920 police officers. White police officers, all male. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.400 The interrogations were not recorded, and after days of questioning, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:03.440 both women signed statements admitting to taking part in the killing, and. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.040 On the basis of those unrecorded statements that the police 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.960 alleged they gave. After a trial before a jud John, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.920 of course, not surprisingly in all white jury, they were 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.000 convicted the following year. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.919 From LoVa for good this is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:41.400 Freeling today Odelia and Narissa Cusance o'dellia, Narissa Cusants are 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.280 sisters born two years apart and members of the Salto 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.880 First Nation. They grew up on the Keiscous Reserve in Saskatchewan, Canada, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.480 along with an older brother and three other sisters. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.960 And growing up in Kiscoose. We all were called the 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.160 village kids. We lived in a village. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.960 This is Odelia, the older of the two, born in 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:05.080 nineteen seventy two. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.160 Me and Narissa did not have our mother involved in 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:14.680 our life, but our father was involved in till the 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.920 day he passed. He was always there for us. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.679 I never actually knew my mother, but my dad was. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.320 He was the best thing for me. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.160 And that's Narissa. The sisters have always been close and 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.440 both girls adored their father. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:32.800 He was. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:34.600 He was quite a big man. I guess he's six 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:35.200 footy three. 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:36.560 He was. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.520 He's really into sports. He's a hockey player himself, a 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.960 basketball player, and he used to be coached on a 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.160 team on a reserve. I mean, we didn't have nothing 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.720 to eat or no power, you know, as long as 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.520 he was there, and that's that's what mattered to me. 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:58.720 He did his best. He wasn't perfect. Nobody's perfect. 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.320 Life for the girls growing up was rough, Canada's Indigenous 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:12.679 populations have long faced systemic racism, poverty, violence, and substance 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.160 addiction were rampant on the reserve where they lived. 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:24.000 Seeing people relatives trying to commit suicide, being babysat while 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.280 our father trusted someone, and then having a relative commit 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:29.959 suicide shoot himself. 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:31.239 And we were. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:32.799 Little kids getting put. 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.680 In a pat and you know it's we had a 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:36.680 tough life. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.560 But the cues On siblings looked out for each other. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.160 Odelia especially tried to protect her younger sisters. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.839 I love my sisters, and I remember times where we 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.960 did go hungry. We always used to tell each other 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.760 to stay, you know, be strong, be strong. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.520 Sometimes times it was tough. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.720 Like generations of family members before them, Odelia and Nourissa 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:07.520 were sent away to residential schools at a very young age, like. 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.360 My dad couldn't raise all of us kids on his own, 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.760 And then we were sent to our grandparents and then 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.400 to the residential schools. We went to the Bread Boarding School, 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.479 and and there's one called Maraval Boarding School that we 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.480 went to on Cows's first nation. You know, we were 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.880 as saying it was only eight and I don't even know, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.479 I was so young when I went, and all I 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.240 remember is loneliness. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.840 Canada's Indian residential school system, as it was called, was 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.279 established in the eighteen seventies with the goal of assimilating 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:48.440 indigenous children into white society. The schools were run by Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.600 and Presbyterian churches. For children like Odelia Nourissa, who had 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.200 grown up surrounded by extended family and tribal elders on 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.520 the reserve, being dropped into a Christian school education system 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.640 was total culture shock. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.120 They take away your esteemed, they take away everything because 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.039 it's like it's an institution and you know, all a 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.680 bunch of young kids that are you know, were just 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.920 children being being told to get up at certain time 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.800 in the morning, going to church, going doing all this stuff. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.880 In your kid students were forced to sing and pray 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.960 in Latin while their own cultural and spiritual beliefs were 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.039 stifled or beaten out of them. For those who didn't conform, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.440 punishment was swift and harsh. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.880 And I remember though, like one time wanting to go 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.600 to the bathroom and you know, I got put in 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.080 the middle of the dorm hat to nail for hours. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.000 You know, as a child I used to, you know, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.480 like eight seven years old, wanting to wishing to die. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:55.080 That's terrible. Well who do you turn to, you know? 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.440 But we survived it. We survived it. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.560 Many survivors of the resident school system recall being severely 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:08.680 beaten and repeatedly sexually assaulted by supervisors and then nearissa. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.560 I think I've read that you actually you have like 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.760 a spine problem with your back because of what happened 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:15.920 to you at residential school. 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.600 Yeah, from trauma from my body is not wasn't quite developed, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.160 so my bones are kind of whatever. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:29.320 And that's from being attacked at the school, from being beaten, like. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.040 Every blows to my body. It wasn't formed or I guess. 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.760 I remember even as a child, I used to wonder 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.440 why God was so mean? Now took a kid. 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.839 The last of these schools was closed in nineteen ninety six, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.920 but not before generations of Indigenous children had been permanently scarred, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:59.200 both physically and emotionally by their treatment. This arguably contributed 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:04.120 to the system disenfranchisement of Indigenous people in Canada, creating 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.320 a highly vulnerable population. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.160 How old were y'all when you left the school and 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:21.960 how did you get out? 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:22.240 Of there. 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:27.840 My mother passed died when I was fourteen, and I 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.760 think I don't know how fifteen when I left boarding school. 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.240 Ohdelia dropped out of school and moved to Edmonton to 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:35.000 live with family. 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:35.280 There. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.280 She continued to try to look out for her little sister, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.400 but Nourissa was still having a hard time at school, 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.640 and she'd been getting into trouble with the law starting 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:45.760 at age thirteen. 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:48.880 What did you go to prison for the first time? 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.480 First time was I was the young a founder me 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.520 for a stolen vehicle and that's where it escalated. There 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.680 was nothing violence. I never had any violence on my 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.840 record this till my adult charge. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.720 Her time spent in prison started Noriissa on the road 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.600 to alcohol and hard drugs at a young age. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.600 I never was introduced that till I went to prison. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.360 Like sure, I used to smoke to odd joints once 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.120 in a while, but like take the odd pill. You know, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:20.240 I became an addict in prison. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.680 By nineteen ninety three, O'delia was twenty one and Norissa 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.960 was eighteen. They had both moved back to the Keyscous 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.120 Reserve and were living with their sisters Orlina and her 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.520 husband and kids. Their fifteen year old cousin, Jason Kashane, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.840 lived across the road. On the night of February twenty fourth, 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:47.120 nineteen ninety three, Jason stole fifteen tablets of the drug 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.880 Restoral from his grandma. He Odelia, and Norissa all took 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.520 the sedative, which is used to treat insomnia. It can 0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:00.479 cause severe drowsiness and went combined with alcohol periodic blackouts. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.760 Later that evening, Jason called an acquaintance, seventy year old 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.160 Joseph Dolph, to come and pick them up. Dolf had 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.800 worked as a maintenance man at Saint Philip's, one of 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.320 the residential schools they had attended. He was known to 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.120 regularly invite young Indigenous women and girls to his home. 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.000 That night, Dolf wanted to party and they all got 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:23.680 in his car. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.600 He picked them up brought them to his fairly remote 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:33.400 home in Comsuck, Saskatchewan. I fact was very remote, and 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.679 provided them with beer and whiskey. This is James Lockyer, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:43.480 I'm Innocents Canada's Council for the Cuzan's Sisters, Adealer of Nursa. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.120 With the restaurant already in their systems, the sisters became 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.720 more and more inebriated. Later, they would have a hard 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.520 time remembering everything that occurred that night. Jason later testified 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.520 that Dolf and Odelia left to go get beer. When 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.000 they returned, they all continued drinking, finishing off a large 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.600 bottle of whiskey Dolf provided, and it seemed he had 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:07.720 an agenda. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:12.000 And during the course of the evening, Dolf tried to 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.000 persuade Adelia. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.800 And Nerissa to have sex with him. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.920 They refused and it led to some dispute between them. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.200 Around one o'clock in the morning, they persuaded Dolf to 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.439 drive them all home, and. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.880 On the way home, Dolf realized that he had three 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.520 hundred dollars missing from his wallet, and he decided to 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.079 turn around and go back home. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.640 Back at the house, Dolf accused the three of stealing 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.120 the money from him. They denied it, and an argument ensued. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.800 The next day, the police were called to Joseph Dolf's home. 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.920 When they entered, they found the place completely trashed, with 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:55.480 furniture turned over and talcum powder sprinkled all around. Dolf's 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.640 body was face down in the bedroom. He'd been stabbed 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.720 over a dozen times in the chest, abdomen, back, and 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.000 left arm. A knife was still in his stomach and 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.000 a phone cord was wrapped around his neck. There were 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.200 blunt force injuries on his head and a fracture near 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.360 his right eye. When the police started asking around the 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.320 community about who could have been involved. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:24.160 They quickly ascertained that the two Cusant's sisters and Jason 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.480 hab been at his house that night. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.400 They were all three arrested. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.439 That morning. O'delia, Nourissa, and Jason were taken to the 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:39.800 Kamsack Police Detachment by the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.400 The sisters were stripped to their underwear and placed in 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:48.280 concrete cells with only raincoats to wear. Later, they were 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.679 given sweatpants and sweatshirts. Both women spoke with lawyers who 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.880 told the police that their clients were not to be questioned. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.600 The next day, the Justice of the Peace ordered that 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.840 the cis be remanded to the nearest jail. This was Friday. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.000 However, the police ignored that order and kept them until 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.199 the following Tuesday in the police detachment, so that they 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:17.080 were a matter of eight steps from numerous all white, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.480 all male police officers in the Camsack detachment in Canada, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.760 If you want to hold someone for more than twenty 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.400 four hours in police custody, you have to get judicial authorization. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.600 And they were held in the cells there for a 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:36.439 total of five nights. And on these most unpleasant cells 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.840 which I've seen, they have a seventeenth century appearance to them. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:47.720 Very thick white concrete walls, probably twelve to fifteen inches thick, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.040 with bars going from ceiling to ground, and you know, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.800 hard cold steel bunks with no bedding, so you know, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:05.160 a very its very nature, highly intimidating for both of them. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.840 Meanwhile, their cousin, Jason, was also being questioned, and on 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.360 the very first day. 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:16.400 Jason confessed to the homicide, and his confession was recorded 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.040 on tape, a tape recording that somehow was not available. 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.000 When it came to the questioning of Nourissa and Adelia 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:24.520 to being the one who did the. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.200 Stabbings, the sisters were told that Jason had confessed to 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.080 the murder and that he implicated them as well, which 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.360 was later found not to be true. The two were 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.559 questioned repeatedly by the RCMP over the next four days. 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.320 They have memory being extremely scared, of course, and frightened 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.400 around all these men. These what to them were big, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.040 burly white men, continually bringing them out of the cells 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.800 and questioning them again, and putting them back in and 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.120 questioning them again. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.320 Over day after day. They had no lawyers, and the 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.880 police knew what they wanted, They knew what they were doing. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:03.880 They had to. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:09.120 Get these two girls to say things that somehow tied 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.440 them into mister Dolph's murder. The police alleged that they 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:18.199 gave verbal statements not recorded that slowly but surely amounted 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.320 to more incriminating statements. So as I say, they got 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.720 ad Elia to admit one stab wound out of more 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.200 than forty, how did they get. 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.920 The girls to confess to this? 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.600 There's no doubt there was intimidating taxics used. These were 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.560 two young Indigenous women trying to cope with police officers, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.240 white police officers. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:40.320 All male. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.360 More than that, they were both victims of the residential 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:48.840 school system. They were highly vulnerable individuals. Well never really 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.560 know exactly what happened because none of it was recorded, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.320 they had no lawyers. It was made clearer than what 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.120 they wanted to hear. The policeman wrote out what they 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.600 claimed the girls were saying. One of Nourissa's statements was 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.880 clearly not her words, and on the basis of those 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.920 unrecorded statements that the police alleged they gave, they were 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.400 convicted the following year after a trial before a jud 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:40.840 Johann of course, not surprisingly in all White Jury. 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.720 Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.600 You can listen to this and all the Lover for 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.640 Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:59.080 to LoVa for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.240 Adelia and Nourissa testified at their trials. The trouble is 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.880 that they had it made clear to them that it 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.720 was not in their interest to try and challenge the 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.640 versions of events given by the RCMP officers in front 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.320 of the jury, because if they did, they'd be disbelieved. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.360 After the years they'd spent at residential schools, the girls 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.480 were conditioned to succumb to authority and believed no one 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:28.560 would help them. 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.960 They were told to stay in line as to how 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.880 they were treated by the police, who of course testified 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:39.280 that they treated them well, etc. Etc. For those five days, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.240 even though they shouldn't have been in the police station 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.440 for four of them, and no one really seemed to 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:44.920 see much wrong without a trial. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.240 Certainly the trial judge didn't. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.800 Her name was Justice Gunn was her name. So they 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.200 tried to fall into step, you might say, with what 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.800 the RCMP officers said. Not entirely, but they did their 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.600 best to so that they're claim that they had not 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.760 been involved in mister Dolph's murder will be. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:05.720 More likely believed. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.800 And this was classic for those times that Indigenous people 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.800 were told by their own lawyers that you know, if 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.200 it's your word against the police, no one's going to 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:16.639 believe you. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.920 So for people in the US who don't know about 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.439 the systemic abuses of Indigenous people in Canada, can you 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:28.880 describe that a little bit. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.119 Well, it's not unlike your country. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.480 It's very much a colonial history where we colonize the 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.120 original peoples are part of the continent, and you did 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.199 the same in your part of the continent. The RCMP 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.960 has in the past and still to this day, engages 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:50.280 in systemic racism towards Indigenous peoples. That's acknowledged publicly, i 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.800 might say, with some reluctance, but nevertheless acknowledged. The case 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.960 of Adelia and Urus are just smacks of this. Here 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:02.520 we have two young girls, both indigenous. I mean if 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.840 you or I had been the ones arrested in February 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.840 of nineteen ninety three, they wouldn't have held us in 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.119 the police cells for five days in complete violation of 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.760 a judicial order. They're victims of systemic discrimination, and it 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.800 obviously includes within it then the failure of the police 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.040 to make any attempt to record any of the interviews, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.160 despite the fact that the recording equipment was right there 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.600 in the police station. Their failure to obey a judicial 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.439 order for day after day after day, their failure to 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.560 in any way document the conditions of both a dealer 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.320 and Urissa, that their level of intoxication on arrest, their 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:50.760 level of drug taking, and overall the fact that it's 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.400 become known in the last twenty years that false confessions 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.920 are a regular feature of wrongful convictions, and false confession 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.040 above all come from those who are vulnerable in the 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:04.679 first place. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.760 Okay, So going back to the trial, o'delia and Narisso 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.520 were tried in the Court of Queen's Benson, Yorkton before 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.840 Madame Justice Ellen Gunn, And as you said earlier, it 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.920 was an all white jury, and we've heard how the 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.320 sisters were basically forced to incriminate themselves at trial, But 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.120 what did their lawyers present in defense. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.480 Their defense was that the two women were both drunk 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.560 at the time and therefore their responsibility meant they should 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.600 only be convicted of manslaughter. It was like a sort 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.640 of a semi surrender defense. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.720 So they didn't bring up a foss confession. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:44.760 No, they did not. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.440 Jason was called by the Crown as a witness, and 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:53.399 indeed when he testified at trial, he implicated himself and 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.320 said that he was the one who had stabbed mister Doff. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.760 At trial, Jason told a more complete story of what 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.280 happened that night. Jason said, once they all returned to 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.399 the house, Joseph Dolph went looking for his missing money. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.320 They all got into an altercation and Narissa hit Dolf 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.359 on the head with a porcelain ornament, which broke in 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.639 a tea kettle. O'dela hit him with a whiskey bottle. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.399 Jason punched Dolf, who was going after Narissa, then followed 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.320 him into the bedroom and choked him with a telephone cord. 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.360 Then he grabbed a knife from the kitchen and stabbed 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.639 Dolf repeatedly, finally leaving the knife in his body. He 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.240 said o'delia and Nourissa were in another room together crying. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.320 After Jason finished assaulting Dolf, the three trashed the house. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.520 Then Jason took Dolph's keys and drove them all home. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.160 It would later come out that Jason was told to 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:58.760 implicate o'dela Noarissa by saying they had hit Dolf. According 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:03.840 to Jason, they actually hadn't. He had been the sole attacker. However, 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:08.000 Jason's testimony did corroborate the sister's assertion that they were 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.280 not the ones who had killed Joseph Dolph. He was. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.520 He'd already pleaded guilty to the crime. He was a 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.520 fifteen year old, so he pleaded guilty under the Young 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:23.000 Offender's Act and received a sentence of five years. So 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.040 the real killer was in for five years, and at 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.359 his age, he shouldn't. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:29.639 Have been in for longer than that. I would hasten 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:30.000 to add. 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.840 Was he asked directly if the girls did and did 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:35.640 he say no or was he just not yes? 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:37.639 Okay? And he said no, they did not. 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:39.760 Yes, he said he's the winner stabbed them. 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:40.920 Wow. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.240 So even though they were not implicated at the trial 0:21:44.040 --> 0:22:07.720 by him, they're still convicted. Yes, on February fourth, nineteen 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.679 ninety four, Odelia and Narissa were convicted of second degree 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.679 murder and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.360 of parole in ten years. While she was incarcerated, Odela 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.720 stayed connected with her partner, Jay, whom she'd known since 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:23.560 she was eighteen. 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.639 In two thousand and one, she gave birth to their 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:40.320 daughter and six years later twin girls. 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:44.040 My oldest daughter, Hayley, she lived in prison for two 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:44.800 years with me. 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.840 What was that like living with your daughter in prison? 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.159 I was just grateful she was there with me. 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.760 Yes, it was like, you know, but do you know 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:59.000 what my daughter today, she's very outspoken, and she had 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.720 a lot of Auntie and Cook Coombs in there to 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.760 take care of her, you know, like she was allowed 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:06.000 to be a child in there. 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.399 Were there other were there other women with kids? 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:10.960 Yeah? 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:11.480 Wow? 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.720 And so once your daughters, you know, left prison and 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:17.000 were older, who were they living with And what was 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.639 that like to try and parent from behind bars? 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.320 My daughters they were living with their father and he 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:27.119 took care of them and he brought them to visit me. 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:28.840 I read a couple months. 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:30.760 I talked on a phone with them a lot. 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:32.560 How do you do being a dad? 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:35.600 I think he did pretty good. 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:38.880 Kind of spoiled their girls, but in a good way though. 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.560 While in prison, Odelia also earned her ged, completed a 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:54.520 number of programs, and worked in the library, horticulture, kitchen, 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.080 and daycare. She grew to be respected as a leader 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:02.639 by both prisoners and staff. Norissa earned a degree in 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:06.719 adult education from the University of Saskatoon while at the 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:11.920 Edmonton Institution for Women, the first incarcerated person to graduate 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:17.040 from the university and attend her own convocation. She also 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.679 earned a degree in animal welfare and worked as a 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:25.560 dog trainer. Nearly ten years into their sentence, the sisters 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:27.880 hit a milestone, so. 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.439 As of February twenty fourth, two thousand and three, they 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:33.560 were eligible for Pearl. 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.080 They didn't get it, and when they did. 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:40.080 Release them a couple of times they imposed these onerous 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:45.520 conditions on them, which not surprisingly, they violated. So in 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:49.040 twenty twenty abyve the time David Milgard came to me. 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:51.760 They both served more than they were actually by then. 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:54.520 That's served twenty eight years of their sentences. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:57.680 In James, can you explain who David Milgard is and 0:24:57.720 --> 0:24:59.760 how he became involved in this case. 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.720 David was a person who had spent twenty three years 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:06.119 in prison in Canada for a great murder he did 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:11.159 not commit, and ever since his exoneration, continued to advocate 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:16.960 for the wrongly convicted and Nourissa and Adelia Cusance approached 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.439