WEBVTT - Selects: Iran-Contra Affair: Shady in the 80s, Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, everyone, buckle up for the thrilling conclusion of Iran

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<v Speaker 1>Contra Shady in the Eighties, Part two.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Charles t w Tuck, Brian, there's Jerry over there. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is Stuff you Should Know. Iran Contra Part two,

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<v Speaker 1>starting now go.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe we should do a quick catch up. Okay, well

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<v Speaker 2>we're still going. You act to like I just went

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<v Speaker 2>to sleep.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's true.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's going on here is the United States is

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<v Speaker 2>Congress has decided that we cannot fund the Contras to

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<v Speaker 2>fight the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Shut off funding. So the

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan administration makes a deep covert push to continue doing

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<v Speaker 2>so right through a bunch of fun and shady ways.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, they're fundraising, they're directly arming the Contras, they're training them,

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<v Speaker 1>doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but if you know that this is about Iran

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<v Speaker 2>Contra and you're like, what about Iran? What's going on here?

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard anything about Iran?

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<v Speaker 1>Keep your socks on.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, here we go. This is where Iran enters.

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<v Speaker 1>The picture, right, you can take your socks off, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>go are your socks on?

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<v Speaker 2>I've got on little footy socks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do too cool. Oh, Jerry does too sweet.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the way to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry has those true footies where you can't even see

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<v Speaker 2>him at all. I can see you mind peak out

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<v Speaker 2>just a little, which I'm not a huge fan of.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, check out my mind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, noms, no sms.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, enter Iran. We really that was a great intro

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<v Speaker 1>and it just went away.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>So on the other side of the world from Nicker,

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<v Speaker 1>there was another foreign policy disaster simmering that Reagan had going,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was in the form of Iran, and specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't even the form of run. It was in

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<v Speaker 1>the form of a problem that America had doesn't really

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<v Speaker 1>have much these days, but definitely did in the seventies

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<v Speaker 1>and eighties where Americans would be taken hostage around the world,

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<v Speaker 1>but specifically, almost exclusively by Lebanese terrorists who were, if

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<v Speaker 1>not working on behalf of Iran, were definitely sponsored by Iran.

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<v Speaker 1>And regardless of who was president, the fact that there

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<v Speaker 1>were hostages being held by another country and there wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>anything we could do about it. That was a real

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<v Speaker 1>blemish on the presidency. It was not a very proud

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<v Speaker 1>thing to think about for America. But that was a

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<v Speaker 1>reality for a while there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we ran at the time. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>early eighties. This is just a few years removed from

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<v Speaker 2>the Iranian Revolution of nineteen seventy nine, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>where we talked about it before. Go look up photos

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<v Speaker 2>of Iran in the mid seventies pre revolution, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like London in the swinging sixties and seventies. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>very kind of hit place to be. Iranian revolution happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Fundamentalists take control of the government that was previously the

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<v Speaker 2>Shaw of Iran, who was friendly to the West, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>friendly to America generally, and the Iatola Komeni.

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<v Speaker 1>Kohmani I've always heard Kohmane.

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<v Speaker 2>Kohmani installed the Islamic theocracy and bad things started happening

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<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, there was a It was about as quick

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<v Speaker 1>a turn about face politically and socially as you could imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for a whole country, yeah, yeah, but not everyone

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<v Speaker 2>in the country, as we'll learn, Like the whole country

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<v Speaker 2>didn't just change overnight.

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<v Speaker 1>No, but the the Islamic theocracy was in power, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>very much. So. One of the things that happened was

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<v Speaker 1>they were not very fond of America or Americans, and

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<v Speaker 1>the American embassy was famously stormed and sixty six Americans

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<v Speaker 1>working there were taken hostage and held for more than

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<v Speaker 1>a year.

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<v Speaker 2>Man. That was like, this is stuff I really remember.

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<v Speaker 1>Like four hundred and forty days or.

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<v Speaker 2>Something, four hundred and forty four days, man, the Iranian

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<v Speaker 2>hostage crisis. I remember this as a nine year old

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<v Speaker 2>very clearly.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, Oh yeah, I have no recollection.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a big deal, yellow ribbons, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was on the news constantly.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember entering the room and being like, what does

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<v Speaker 1>this have to do with Rainbow Bright turn this newscast?

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<v Speaker 2>I even remember. So what happened was Jimmy Carter did

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<v Speaker 2>not get these hostages free during his his I was

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<v Speaker 2>about to say rain, but that was sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>opposite Jimmy Carter was during his administration is iron fisted rain.

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<v Speaker 1>The days of terror.

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<v Speaker 2>But within a few days, and that may have cast

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<v Speaker 2>some election, but within a few days of our hours,

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<v Speaker 2>even of Reagan's inauguration, the hostages were freed, and I

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<v Speaker 2>remember as a nine year old hearing kids parroting their parents'

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<v Speaker 2>conversations like it was really Carter that had him freed

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<v Speaker 2>all the work he did up until then, and then

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<v Speaker 2>other kids saying, are you kidding me? As soon as

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan got in a office, they knew that they were

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<v Speaker 2>toast and that Reagan wasn't going to be a patsy

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<v Speaker 2>like Carter. And I was like, what's a patsy? Who

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<v Speaker 2>are these dudes? No, but I remember very distinctly, it's weird,

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<v Speaker 2>like on the playground hearing the stuff that's funny, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like a little nine year olds.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely didn't hear this when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>but I remember hearing later on as a grown up,

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<v Speaker 1>still in the rainbow bright, that it was Reagan's campaign

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<v Speaker 1>was somehow in touch with aaran yeah, and that they brokeered.

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<v Speaker 1>This also got them to wait to release the hostages

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<v Speaker 1>until after Reagan was in office. Well, the timing was not.

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<v Speaker 2>At all hours after his inauguration. There's no accident.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a little fishy, you know what I mean. But

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<v Speaker 1>whether it was that's funny, I'm sure somebody's parents were like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's because they were so scared of Reagan, they knew

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<v Speaker 1>that they better release these guys. That's totally not the

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<v Speaker 1>case because there were other hostages taken by other by

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<v Speaker 1>actual Lebanese terrorists who were probably sponsored by Iran, and

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<v Speaker 1>that were they were held throughout Reagan's presidency.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's sort of a big part of this.

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<v Speaker 2>The second half of the story was the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>that was very embarrassing for Reagan. He didn't like hostages

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<v Speaker 2>being held on his watch.

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<v Speaker 1>No, but he had campaigned against negotiating with terrorists under

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<v Speaker 1>any circumstances. So he's stuck now, Yeah, because he's basically saying,

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<v Speaker 1>if you get taken hostage, I mean, you're on your own. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll use our rhetoric and whatever we can to influence

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<v Speaker 1>you being released, but we're not going to negotiate for

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<v Speaker 1>your release. That's just the way it is.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's a longstanding American policy, right, and it makes

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<v Speaker 2>sense because if you negotiate with terrorists, then that's just

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<v Speaker 2>going to need to more kidnappings. Yeah, because they know

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<v Speaker 2>that you're open for business.

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<v Speaker 1>Like anywhere in the world. Yeah, there was a kidnapping

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<v Speaker 1>of twa Flight eight forty seven, very very famous one,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the picture of like the pilot leaning out

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<v Speaker 1>of the cop sure and the guys in the picture

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<v Speaker 1>with the gun behind him. That was eight forty seven, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And that was I mean, that was I remember that

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<v Speaker 1>one that was That was probably nine then, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was just scary because they were flying all over the place.

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<v Speaker 1>You had no idea what was going to happen. People

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<v Speaker 1>were being beaten on the plane. When Navy guy was

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<v Speaker 1>beaten in shot and throw his body thrown out on

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<v Speaker 1>the tarmac.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The eighties, like it seems comparatively tame now in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of way as compared to the things that

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<v Speaker 2>used to go on. Tank McDonald's hi jackings and kidnappings

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<v Speaker 2>and hostages. It's like it was the eighties were nuts.

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<v Speaker 1>They were nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>But pac Man, right, you know, pac Man fevers, pac

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<v Speaker 2>Man rapping Rodney it was crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, rapping Like is that Rodney Piper.

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<v Speaker 2>No rapping Rodney Dangerfield his big hit?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, no respect. What about what about the

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<v Speaker 1>Ichy Shuffle? That was a little crazy?

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<v Speaker 2>Was that eighties?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure? Late eighties, I guess so, okay, I got one

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<v Speaker 1>for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>The Bears, what was their thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? The Super Bowl Shuffle?

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<v Speaker 1>Super Bowl Shuffle right, Yeah, that was pretty eighties. I

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<v Speaker 1>think they were eighty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're putting you know, my band every year plays

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<v Speaker 2>for sure one gig at Decatur's Porch Best, and every

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<v Speaker 2>year we try to do a theme, and this year

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing eighties sort of new wave. Nice and I

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<v Speaker 2>jokingly suggested pac Man Fever the Raping Rodney.

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<v Speaker 1>But oh, you guys gonna do it?

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<v Speaker 2>No, those songs are terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a synth player playing with you?

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<v Speaker 2>I bought Emily a keyboard and she's learning.

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<v Speaker 1>Awesome. Yeah, she's gonna be like wait, hold on, huh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's cool man.

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<v Speaker 2>Now she's practicing.

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard her do that, and.

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<v Speaker 2>She played piano when she was a kid, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>not the biggest stretch.

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard that one that her do. That one Blondie

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<v Speaker 1>song that she just brought the house to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we might one way or another. Yes, we might

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<v Speaker 2>bring that back because that's eighties. Yeah, or was that?

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<v Speaker 1>It was so close on the custom I seriously doubt

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<v Speaker 1>anybody's going to throw a beer can at you for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Porch Best, everyone, I'll publicize it in October. Nice,

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<v Speaker 2>So Reagan's hands are tied in every way possible because

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<v Speaker 2>he can't on he can't negotiate with Terris. The only

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<v Speaker 2>option is to send in a covert Delta Force.

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<v Speaker 1>Team, which they Carter tried that, and yeah, work.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't always work. You could lose your own men. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's what happened in Carter's case, right, yeah. Sure,

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<v Speaker 2>So what he can do though, without anyone knowing, is

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<v Speaker 2>totally negotiate with Terras.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just as long as the American public doesn't no, sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what happened. And he followed that Reagan playbook

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<v Speaker 1>where it's like, okay, I said this, well, if I

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<v Speaker 1>just changed this one little part, right, it makes it

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<v Speaker 1>all fine. That's right, again, as long as the American

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<v Speaker 1>public doesn't know. So while Reagan said America will never

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<v Speaker 1>negotiate with with hostages, they didn't say Israel will never

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<v Speaker 1>nego terrorists for hostages, right, Yeah, So actually Israel had

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<v Speaker 1>a long standing policy of negotiating with terrorists. They would

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<v Speaker 1>they would kidnap people from the other side, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they'd be like, all right, i'll give you five guys.

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<v Speaker 1>I've only got two. Let me kidnap a few people, Okay, Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I have five like there would be negotiations for hostage

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<v Speaker 1>exchanges all the time between Israel and Palestine. Right, They

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<v Speaker 1>just knew what they were doing. So they said, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if Israel goes to Iran and says, hey, you know

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<v Speaker 1>this American over there, why don't you get them released.

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<v Speaker 1>We can help you out with some stuff. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So earlier when I mentioned the fact that Iran

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<v Speaker 2>as whole cloth did not change overnight as a country.

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<v Speaker 2>The government did, but there were still some plenty of

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<v Speaker 2>people there that were a little more moderate in their views,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Reagan administration had a channel to them. So

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<v Speaker 2>he was talking to them, these more moderate factions and

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<v Speaker 2>making a little headway. And they were like, by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll totally give you these hostages if you give us arms.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because Iran was fighting the Iran Iraq War at

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<v Speaker 1>least half of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And this is just where stuff is just totally crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>because we were we were funding both sides.

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<v Speaker 1>At the very least, we were advising both sides.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean we directly gave money. Oh yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, We sold them weapons and we provided training

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<v Speaker 2>and intelligence. Right, And this was this wasn't secret. This

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<v Speaker 2>was like a real deal thing.

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<v Speaker 1>We were publicly supporting Iraq, but then we were secretly

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<v Speaker 1>arming Iran.

0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think what they never proved beyond a doubt

0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.440
<v Speaker 2>was that we went to Saddam Hussein and said, hey,

0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.800
<v Speaker 2>why don't you go in there and overthrow Iran?

0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:47.439
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, that was never I don't think that was ever.

0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.079
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of circumstantial evidence that that was

0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the case, but never, like the smoking gun, that we

0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.800
<v Speaker 2>actually encouraged Saddam Hussein to do so. But it's just, man,

0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:03.280
<v Speaker 2>when you look at how all this played out over

0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.319
<v Speaker 2>the years, it's just maddening.

0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, yeah, it's a s show.

0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Iraq and Iran are fighting, we're supplying both,

0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 2>playing both sides of the coin, right, uh, And we

0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.320
<v Speaker 2>offered arms to Iran And who are you gonna call?

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Is real?

0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:20.679
<v Speaker 2>Not ghostbusters?

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh Gorbanaphar?

0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Well you're gonna call Ali North?

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I would have gotten there eventually. Yeah,

0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.800
<v Speaker 1>because okay, so remember Oly North is this total novice

0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.199
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to covert operations bymore. Yeah, yeah, he's

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.440
<v Speaker 1>been running the Nicaragua op for years now. Yeah, just

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 1>doing a bang up job of it. So they're like, well, sure,

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.600
<v Speaker 1>we'll have him do this incredibly illegal, super sensitive arms

0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 1>sailed to Iran too, Why don't you come on over here,

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.640
<v Speaker 1>Ali and all. He said, well, okay, that's fine, but

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.240
<v Speaker 1>I need to go get the lay of the land.

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 1>And he actually traveled to Iran with a fake passport

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 1>under an assumed name William P. Good with a knee

0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 1>and when he went, it was it was dangerous enough

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:07.960
<v Speaker 1>that William Casey, supposedly Oliver North later testified, gave him

0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 1>cyanide pills so that he could take his own life

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>rather than be tortured by the Iranians. If this were

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.400
<v Speaker 1>in fact like some sort of setup.

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Again right out of a movie, yeah.

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 1>But Oliver North went to Iran with cyanide pills.

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 2>And a fake passport Billy Good.

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so everything went great, though it did. He didn't

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 1>need the cyanide pills after all.

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 2>He did not. He dealt with, like you mentioned earlier,

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:37.680
<v Speaker 2>this Iranian businessman named Gorbanifar. And this guy was ten

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 2>shades of shady, so much so that the CIA wouldn't

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:41.560
<v Speaker 2>even deal with them now.

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.719
<v Speaker 1>They issued a burn notice on him in nineteen.

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Eighty three, which is I don't even know what that is.

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>That means just TV he's dead to us.

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>It's basically stay away, okay, it's putting him on blast

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>to all the other intelligence agencies in the world.

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha PERSONA grade.

0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I won't even deal with this guy. And so Alie

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 1>North is like, yeah, I'll deal with this guy.

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>All right. So with his help, Oliver North set up

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 2>a deal where and it's so simple to look at, like, Israel,

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 2>you give them your missiles and then we'll just replace

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.959
<v Speaker 2>those missiles for you with our missiles.

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:16.959
<v Speaker 2>So we're not given the missiles you are.

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>And because no American explicitly said to Iran, hey, we're

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>doing this so that you guys will get these hostages released,

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't in arms for hostages deal, and so Reagan's

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>vowed and never negotiate with terrorists remained intact.

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Five hundred and eight tow tow missiles What

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>does that stand for?

0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Two blaunched optically tracked wireless guided missile, which is like

0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.760
<v Speaker 1>it's like the tube launched. There's a tube and it

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 1>can be mounted on the ground, mounted on a jeep.

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>It's super portable. But they are they'll blow some stuff up.

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 2>I think I've seen these you have. So five hundred

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and eight of these made it from Israel to Iran,

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 2>and then in very short order, a couple of days later,

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the hostages, Benjamin we Are, minister who was

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 2>held by Lebanes's Terrists for sixteen months, was released. So

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 2>it worked.

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 1>It did work, Azah. It was a big deal around

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 1>the White House too, but they said, let's try it again,

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>but this time it seems a little messy to get

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Israel involved. Let's just do this ourselves. Alie, you think

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>you can handle this, and he said, sure, me and

0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Gerbonifor have this. So rather than Israel giving arms to Iran,

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Richard Seacord got brought in, just like with Nicaragua. And

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>again this isn't like years after Nicaragua. Nicaragua's at full

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 1>bore in full swamp, but it's still going yet, and

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Olie North is running both operations simultaneously. And so the

0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 1>news setup was the Department of Defense would sell the

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>CIA missiles for thirty seven hundred bucks a pop. The

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 1>CIA would sell them to Richard Seacord at cost, and

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 1>then Seacord would sell them to Garbaniphar for ten grand apiece,

0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and then Gorbanifhar would go sell them to Iran for

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 1>whatever he charged Iran. Can you imagine, I can't. I

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>guarantee it was more than the ten grand. Yeah, and

0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>this happened multiple times over the course of a little

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 1>over a year. America secretly transferred two thousand missiles and

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:26.239
<v Speaker 1>missile parts to Iran in eight shipments.

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. For the release of hostages.

0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Ultimately there were three hostages that got released out

0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>of seven that had been taken hostage total.

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And didn't he say ultimately there were three more

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.360
<v Speaker 2>hostages taken, so they netted out at zero at zero.

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So but that was the whole Iran operation.

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but here's the deals. This price markup means that

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 2>that shell company and those Swiss bank accounts were making

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of money, and so much so that I

0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 2>think one of them had three million dollars made an

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 2>interest alone. So at some point someone's like, hey, this

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 2>is a money making operation. Now, why don't we tie

0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 2>a little bow on all this and use some of

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 2>that money to fund the contrast, Because you guys are

0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 2>doing both of these things and you need money. Congress

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.160
<v Speaker 2>won't give it to you. Forget the fundraising omelets. We'll

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 2>just use the money from these illegal arm sales to

0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:25.640
<v Speaker 2>fund the Contras.

0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. So to put in

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 1>playing terms, America illegally and secretly sold missiles to Iran,

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.800
<v Speaker 1>used the proceeds from those missile sales to secretly and

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.439
<v Speaker 1>illegally fund the Contras to help them overthrow their government

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>down in Nicaragua. That's what the Reagan administration did.

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>That's why it's called Iran Contra. That's where they came together.

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 1>There was a diversion of funds.

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the I think it was a by nineteen

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.159
<v Speaker 2>eighty six, Congress finally got back on board because of

0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 2>this drum beat from Reagan over the years of how

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 2>much we need to really do this officially, And keep

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:05.639
<v Speaker 2>in mind, Congress still didn't know any of this is

0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.280
<v Speaker 2>going on right secretly. And then Congress said, all right,

0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.520
<v Speaker 2>we'll give you a hundred million dollars to aid this cause.

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 1>And you're going to say, how take a dog.

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.879
<v Speaker 2>You would think that was the end of all the

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:18.800
<v Speaker 2>covert stuff.

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.879
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't, though, No, No, it's still continued on. But

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 1>now it was legitimized and had even better funding. But

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.720
<v Speaker 1>that was not the end of the whole thing. Like

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.359
<v Speaker 1>everybody didn't just get to walk away and say that

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>was close, because the whole thing started to come apart. Actually,

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>and I say that we take an ad break and

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 1>come back and talk about it. Great after this.

0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Well, now we're on the road, driving in your truck.

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Want to learn a thing or two from Josh Amuck?

0:18:47.640 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you should know? Should all right? Okay, Chuck. So

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty six Congress is back on board. I think

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.320
<v Speaker 1>it's worth pointing out that that's exactly four years after

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 1>the Democrats took control of the House in nineteen eighty two.

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>So I wonder if the Republicans took control back in

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.440
<v Speaker 1>eighty six, and that's why the funding got turned back

0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>onto the Contress.

0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Me solve this?

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I like to speculate instead, So this.

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.919
<v Speaker 2>All might have Who knows if this ever would have

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.920
<v Speaker 2>even been found out had it not been for the

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 2>sharpshooting of a young Sandinistan soldier named Jose Fernando Canales

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Almann Nice in October fifth, nineteen eighty six. It was

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 2>a cargo plane, as he won twenty three called the

0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:55.000
<v Speaker 2>provider flying seventy Soviet Kalishnikovs, one hundred thousand rounds of AMMO,

0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.480
<v Speaker 2>rocket grenades and other supplies. And this is one of

0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.399
<v Speaker 2>those things where you said they would fly over and

0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.119
<v Speaker 2>kick him out the back of the plane. Sure, this

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.720
<v Speaker 2>is one of those runs.

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The problem with this particular run, though, is that

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.360
<v Speaker 1>they did this at twenty five hundred feet in broad daylight.

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 2>They got a little lazy o tad bit or maybe cocky.

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if it's that. I think it

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 1>was more like this was just work. It was an

0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 1>everyday job by this time. They've been doing it for years. Yeah,

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, and the operation was just humming along so

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:24.960
<v Speaker 1>nicely that it was almost an autopilot.

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, they did this one supply drop on October fifth,

0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty six, in broad daylight.

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.479
<v Speaker 2>And there were four crew aboard. William J. Cooper, Wallace

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 2>buzz Sawyer, Freddy Vilchis, and a guy named Eugene Hassenfuss

0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 2>who and again this sliding doors thing. Hassenfuss is the

0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.360
<v Speaker 2>only guy who had a parachute. He borrowed it from

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 2>his brother, a skydiver, because you know, he thought it

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 2>might be smart to take a parachute, right no one

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 2>else had parachutes. Had he not had a parachute, this

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>may have turned out differently.

0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.680
<v Speaker 1>It may have. For sure he was the only one

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.199
<v Speaker 1>that survived this plane crash because he was the only

0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.840
<v Speaker 1>one who borrowed the parachute from his brother and he

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.960
<v Speaker 1>jumped out, landed, made it safely into the jungle. And

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.919
<v Speaker 1>I think he actually survived and evaded the Sandinistas for

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe a day or something like that before he was captured.

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.240
<v Speaker 1>And when he was captured, they led him out of

0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.600
<v Speaker 1>the jungle like with a rope around his neck, just

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 1>about as big of a prisoner as you can imagine.

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Super publicized. There are billboards of him being led around

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 1>by Santainistas and they started asking him questions and he

0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:34.399
<v Speaker 1>was like, what do you want to know?

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:36.400
<v Speaker 2>He say, like a canary, He really did.

0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.359
<v Speaker 1>He said, this is my tenth supply mission. I presume

0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 1>that the CIA is running this. I don't know, And

0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 1>he would know this would be something that he would

0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.159
<v Speaker 1>he could legitimately guess at at least because he had

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:56.119
<v Speaker 1>actually worked on CIA air drops over Vietnam or Cambodia

0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>for Air America back in the Vietnam War.

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but he wasn't like, like he sings like a

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.680
<v Speaker 2>canary because he's not very high up on the totem pole.

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Like his job was to get up there and shove

0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 2>this stuff out of the back of the plane, right

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:10.320
<v Speaker 2>for three grand a month.

0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, He wasn't even a CIA operator. He's just a

0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.320
<v Speaker 1>former Marine who had a background working with Air America

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.280
<v Speaker 1>years before. But by this time, by the time he

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:25.159
<v Speaker 1>joins on doing this for the Contras, he was like

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>working as a construction worker part time in Wisconsin right home.

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.720
<v Speaker 1>So this is like pretty good money, I think. Yeah,

0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 1>he was getting seven grand in today's dollars a month

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.400
<v Speaker 1>for basically kicking AK forty seven crates out the back

0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.160
<v Speaker 1>of a plane over Nicaragua.

0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he's not the kind of guy that's going

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to take the fall right for anyone. So he's singing

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>like a canary.

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Even if he had kept his mouth shut, it wouldn't

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:49.720
<v Speaker 1>have mattered what it sounds like.

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:55.239
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, Because all the other guys, including Hassenfuss, had

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.400
<v Speaker 2>their wallets on the plane, They had all their employee

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 2>ID cards and in fact, I don't even we mentioned

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 2>in episode one the company that was set up to

0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 2>do these drops was set up called Southern Air Transport

0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>out of I guess Miami. So they all had their

0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Southern Air Transport IT cards, which was the CIA front.

0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Like everybody knew Southern Transport was a CIA front, so

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.479
<v Speaker 1>they might as well have had like CIA Junior badges

0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 1>or something right, or.

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Like Michael Keaton and out of Sight when he has

0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 2>the big FBI T shirt.

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen that one?

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you haven't seen out of Sight? No? Is that

0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>the one where he's George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez.

0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:35.159
<v Speaker 1>Is he a bad guy in it?

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 2>No, he's a good guy, but he walks in. He

0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:42.119
<v Speaker 2>plays Ray Nicolette who played same character, and Jackie Brown

0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:44.879
<v Speaker 2>FBI guy. Okay, but it's funny because he walks in

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:46.960
<v Speaker 2>with an FBI T shirt on, and Dennis Farina as

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer Lopez's dad, and he's a former CUP and he goes, hey, Ray,

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.200
<v Speaker 2>let me ask it. He got one that says undercover.

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Dennis Farina man class ad.

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean he got to see out of Sight. That's

0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>a classic. All right, I'll check it out like one

0:23:58.880 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>of the better men.

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know the movie. You're talking about avoid

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it like the plague.

0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.159
<v Speaker 2>It's so good, Okay, you would love it, all right,

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 2>So Southern air Transport caa front. There's also a log

0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:13.080
<v Speaker 2>book that connected this flight and all the other flights.

0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 2>And then Hassenfuss in his wallet had a business card

0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 2>to Robert w Owen, this is a big one who

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.000
<v Speaker 2>was working with Oliver North in Washington.

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, which so that provided a direct line between Oliver

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 1>North and some guys who were kicking Kalashnikov's out of

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:33.080
<v Speaker 1>the back of a plane over Nicaragua. So that was

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>a really big deal that when this guy got captured

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.639
<v Speaker 1>and you know, told the Santonistas as much as he knew,

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 1>because the Sandinistas were like, attention, world, Yeah, listen to

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 1>what we just found out. The CIA has totally been

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.200
<v Speaker 1>funding these Countra rebels who are trying to overthrow this

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:53.119
<v Speaker 1>sovereign government, and we think you guys should know about it.

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it was it wasn't like you could totally

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:59.639
<v Speaker 2>discount that even though it was from the Sandinistans like

0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and the American media were like what I'm sure Congress

0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:07.919
<v Speaker 2>was like wait a minute, right, this reeks of like

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 2>something that had been happening that we tried to shut down.

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because remember, even if the CIA was brief in Congress,

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 1>it was either Bill Casey or Dewey Clarridge, and they

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>were doing a really obtuse job of this keeping Congress

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.120
<v Speaker 1>at arms length. So anytime something like this came out,

0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:29.439
<v Speaker 1>almost none of Congress knew the full extent of this,

0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and it was always in flagrant violation of whatever Congress

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:34.840
<v Speaker 1>wanted or whatever Congress had agreed to.

0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this wasn't like this was sort of the

0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:40.119
<v Speaker 2>straw that broke it all open, or that broke the

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 2>camel's back.

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Broke the camel's back wide open. Oh god, that's correct,

0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:45.199
<v Speaker 1>or camel.

0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Things have been unraveling for a bit. There was a

0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:53.560
<v Speaker 2>party in nineteen eighty five in Virginia thrown thrown by

0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Soldier of Fortune magazine. Can you imagine? No, what's that party?

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Like? I don't want to know, I can't imagine. I

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:03.800
<v Speaker 1>used to read Soldier of Fortune when I was in

0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:06.000
<v Speaker 1>my ninja training as like a ten year old boy,

0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.920
<v Speaker 1>and even then I was like this, this magazine makes

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:09.680
<v Speaker 1>my stomach hurt.

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 2>And it's in nineteen eighty five, Like, can you imagine

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the amount of like blow being secretly done in the

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:16.040
<v Speaker 2>bathroom at that party.

0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 1>Sure, but also they were making snuff movies in the

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 1>living room, and there's no telling what was going on.

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:24.399
<v Speaker 1>As a soldier of Fortune, we can tell you at

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:26.600
<v Speaker 1>the very least, there was a lot of boasting going

0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 1>on openly about this contra operation. And again this is

0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 1>the time when people don't know about this stuff.

0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you know what happens is like you get

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:38.920
<v Speaker 2>enough people in enough years, and people start talking, people

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.840
<v Speaker 2>start bragging. Yeah, and all of a sudden, you have

0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:43.639
<v Speaker 2>a couple of gen and Tonics at a Soldier of

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Fortune party. Sure, and you're like, hey, guess what, and

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:48.119
<v Speaker 2>that that's what happened.

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Somebody goes what yeah, there you go here it comes.

0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they drop the you know, they drop the

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:57.159
<v Speaker 2>bomb that what's been going on. A concerned citizen hears this.

0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess he must have been mistakenly invited the soldier.

0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how that guy got invited, or they

0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:05.560
<v Speaker 1>just happened to talk to the wrong guy or whatever,

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 1>but probably that he was like, I am really fearful

0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:10.879
<v Speaker 1>of my life for saying something about this, but I

0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:14.159
<v Speaker 1>feel like somebody should know. So he went to a lawyer,

0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 1>a human rights lawyer named David Shean, and he said,

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 1>you go tell everybody you put your life on the line.

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.960
<v Speaker 2>And he did. He submitted an affidavit to federal court,

0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 2>started doing interviews, talking to journalists, drumming up support. White

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:31.119
<v Speaker 2>House was like, we don't know what you're talking about.

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:34.480
<v Speaker 2>You're a crazy man, Like this is all made up.

0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:40.600
<v Speaker 2>And finally it took a Lebanese newspaper, Al Shira, that

0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:44.359
<v Speaker 2>reported on this deal, this arms for hostage deal, like

0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>in a legitimate newspaper.

0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Right, so now both stories have been blown open. You've

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.199
<v Speaker 1>got Eugene Hassenfu was captured and the contra operation is

0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 1>blown open, and now Al Shira is reporting on the

0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Iran arms for hostage deal. And really, crazily enough, these

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:06.919
<v Speaker 1>two separate arms of this one scandal came out within

0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a month of each other, which is it's bizarre, but

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:14.240
<v Speaker 1>that's what happened. And now it was like there's it's

0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:17.720
<v Speaker 1>on the table. The America media knows about it, Congress

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 1>knows about it. Heads are about to roll.

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 2>All right, we'll take our final break and we'll come

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:26.240
<v Speaker 2>back and talk about the aftermath of Iran condra.

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:30.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, now we're on the road, driving in your truck.

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 3>I want to learn a thing or two from Josh.

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Chuck.

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 3>It's stuff you should know, all right.

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:53.160
<v Speaker 1>All right, Chuck, you promised that after your math.

0:28:53.640 --> 0:29:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Let's hear it, all right, So everything is exposed. Oliver

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.920
<v Speaker 2>North was no longer in business doing his thing.

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:08.480
<v Speaker 1>No, he shut down shop real quick, he.

0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Did, but not before. Very famously, he and his very

0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:18.520
<v Speaker 2>eighties haired secretary, Fawn Hall. I forgot. I looked at

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:20.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, Fawn Hall. I looked her up, and as

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 2>soon as I saw it, I was like, right, yeah,

0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Fawn Hall, sure you can forget that hair. She could

0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 2>barely walk through a door.

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 1>No, it was ginormous, for sure.

0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 2>It's so great. I would be fearful around a shreddervour her,

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 2>but she was not fearful at all. She and Oliver

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 2>North spent a day they could. They call it a

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:41.960
<v Speaker 2>shredding party. I mean, we will never know the full

0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 2>truth behind this because of all the evidence that they shredded.

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Yep, as far as anyone knows, Oliver North decided on

0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 1>his own to shred every document he had on it.

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>That's right, and yeah, that's that's it. It's it's now

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 1>it's the official narrative that has been written into the

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.520
<v Speaker 1>history book, which you can just guarantee is not anywhere

0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 1>near the full story, right.

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:09.320
<v Speaker 2>So it all comes out. The Reagan administration start looking

0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.840
<v Speaker 2>around and they're like, well, who who's going to be

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>the patsy for this one? And Oliver North could not

0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:19.800
<v Speaker 2>escape it, but they're like, he's small potatoes, he'll go down.

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think he was even willing to take the fall,

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 1>like he knew he was going to be the fall

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 1>guy and was like, okay, that's part of the job.

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, But they knew that it had to the American public,

0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 2>and certainly Congress wasn't going to be satisfied with just

0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Oliver North, right, So who did they land on?

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:39.280
<v Speaker 1>So the official line became this Poindexter and I guess

0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:44.479
<v Speaker 1>McFarlane would have started it. Became fully aware of just

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 1>how badly Reagan wanted to help the Contras and said

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:50.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do something about this, and tapped Allie

0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>North and said we need to help the Contras out.

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Go help him out, figure it out. And North went

0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:59.480
<v Speaker 1>off and basically went rogue on his own and set

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:04.040
<v Speaker 1>up this whole operation, created this entire network with Seacord

0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 1>decided to do the Iranian arms deal all this stuff

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:08.600
<v Speaker 1>basically on his.

0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Own, right, like Reagan and Bush knew nothing about.

0:31:10.920 --> 0:31:14.600
<v Speaker 1>It, nothing about it, and that the buck stopped at Poindexter.

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Ultimately it didn't go any further. William Casey being CIA,

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:21.479
<v Speaker 1>he was basically out of the loop. That was the

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:24.480
<v Speaker 1>official story they came out with, right, and America when

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 1>you're kidding, right, this is a joke.

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I remember these hearings even as a

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>little kid, like watching these and then watching the news

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:35.080
<v Speaker 2>coverage of it, and like we mentioned all over North

0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:39.040
<v Speaker 2>strolling in there with his dress uniform and you know,

0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 2>by all accounts being a pretty stand up guy, like

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 2>he didn't rat anyone out.

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 1>He didn't. But he also he was like, there's there's

0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 1>no way the president didn't know about this. He said,

0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't have any direct evidence that the president did

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:55.000
<v Speaker 1>know about it, but it's my understanding that the president

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:56.920
<v Speaker 1>was fully aware of what was going on.

0:31:57.160 --> 0:31:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what was the deal with this missile supply shipment? Though,

0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:00.840
<v Speaker 2>That's the one thing didn't quite get.

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:04.960
<v Speaker 1>So there was North got rid of all the documents

0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 1>that he could, right, well, North didn't have any control

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 1>over CIA documents, and at that first missile resupply where

0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:17.480
<v Speaker 1>they were resupplying Israel, he had a CIA. He basically said, Hey, CIA,

0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>do you know anybody I can use to ship these things.

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 1>I've got an emergency here. I need to get these

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:26.400
<v Speaker 1>to Israel fast. And the CIA, being the CIA is

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 1>still a bureaucracy, they had to document this event. So

0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>there was a document out there now and right that

0:32:34.040 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't get his hands on, that he couldn't shred.

0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:43.440
<v Speaker 1>And so this led to Reagan taking responsibility for saying, okay,

0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I was aware of this Iran missile deal by backdating

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>an order to William Casey saying I order you not

0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>to tell Congress about this, even though you're supposed to.

0:32:54.800 --> 0:33:00.360
<v Speaker 1>So Reagan basically said, on paper, I know about this Iran,

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 1>this one missile transfer to Iran. Had no idea about

0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:06.240
<v Speaker 1>the contrasts, right, okay. And at first they started off

0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 1>denying everything.

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, like after this, I'll share a story that

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.560
<v Speaker 2>we talked about. He went on television, Reagan did and

0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 2>denied everything.

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.480
<v Speaker 1>He said, all this is just total bs, yeah exactly.

0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Now let's stop talking about it.

0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Everybody ten days after that, Reagan had another press conference

0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:27.680
<v Speaker 2>where he talked about the Iran operation and he acknowledged it,

0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:29.880
<v Speaker 2>but said, what we're really doing here is just trying

0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.280
<v Speaker 2>to sort of send a signal to Iran that where

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:35.480
<v Speaker 2>we want friendlier relations. Right, there were not arms for

0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 2>hostage exactly.

0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 1>And then so that was ten days after the first denial, right,

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 1>and then four months after that, because the reporting would

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:47.840
<v Speaker 1>not stop, he basically said, Okay, yeah, whatever it started

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:50.880
<v Speaker 1>out as, I admit that it devolved into an arms

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.760
<v Speaker 1>for hostage deal. Which even that, even that admission, which

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.400
<v Speaker 1>is the closest he ever came to admitting, you know,

0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.200
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for it. Yeah, even that's his total b us

0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>and fantasy. It was from the outset in arms for

0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.320
<v Speaker 1>hostages deal. Right, The whole thing was set up to

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:09.040
<v Speaker 1>get hostages released, and that was it. So there was

0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:11.080
<v Speaker 1>there was no other way to put it. Yeah, but

0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:13.239
<v Speaker 1>that's he denied that to his dying day.

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:17.120
<v Speaker 2>As far as fallout, Poindexter resign Oliver North was fired,

0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Casey died in a hospital not too long after this

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:25.200
<v Speaker 2>whole thing like was exposed, I mean like weeks. Yeah,

0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 2>so the press was all over the president. He appointed

0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 2>the Tower Commission. Yeah, the look into this.

0:34:33.840 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 1>The president appointed a commission to investigate, Yeah, the president's

0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:40.279
<v Speaker 1>own administration's wrongdoing.

0:34:40.480 --> 0:34:44.839
<v Speaker 2>That's right. And it was determined that Reagan's disengagement from

0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:49.320
<v Speaker 2>the management of his White House created condition conditions such

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that it was possible that he did not know about this.

0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Which is the absolute best official finding he could have

0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:00.040
<v Speaker 1>hoped for, because it basically says rang it didn't. He

0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:02.840
<v Speaker 1>had a rogue guy working for him, a true believer,

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:06.279
<v Speaker 1>a patriot. But Reagan didn't know about this, and yeah,

0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:08.480
<v Speaker 1>he should have. He should have had a closer watch

0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>on his executive branch, but he didn't. What are you

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 1>going to do? Let's get mister t in here for

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 1>a photo op with Nancy.

0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:18.440
<v Speaker 2>There was a criminal investigation, and what they were really

0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 2>honing in on was the eighteen million dollars in profits

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:25.120
<v Speaker 2>that were made and what happened to that money where

0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:30.280
<v Speaker 2>it went. Fourteen people were charged. Oliver North was tried

0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and found guilty on three counts. One of the counts

0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:39.600
<v Speaker 2>was for getting a sixteen thousand dollars security system installed

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:44.680
<v Speaker 2>in his home courtesy of Seacord. With that money.

0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 1>There was a rumor that there was a bounty on

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:52.160
<v Speaker 1>his head from terrorists, and she hooked him up. Right Now,

0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.399
<v Speaker 1>that was a big problem for North, because North's whole

0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>bag was I was following orders that I assume we're

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:03.040
<v Speaker 1>coming from the president ultimately, and I was doing it

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:05.920
<v Speaker 1>out of my patriotic duty and a sense of, you know,

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:07.680
<v Speaker 1>as a true believer that we need to get rid

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:11.120
<v Speaker 1>of communism. And the American public loved it. They were like, great,

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:14.319
<v Speaker 1>make this man a saint. Congress started to love it too,

0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and he got off. But that was a real problem

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:21.080
<v Speaker 1>because it's saying, well, you took this gift from funds

0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:23.400
<v Speaker 1>from this illicit arms sales.

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, But it was a gift of a security system

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:28.279
<v Speaker 2>to help protect his family, So it's not like, you know,

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 2>it was a gift of ten pounds a blow.

0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:35.280
<v Speaker 1>And Nicaraguans sex worker from the Santa and Eastern government exactly.

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Seacord was convicted of one count of lying to Congress

0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:45.080
<v Speaker 2>and the investigators. He basically denied that North received any

0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 2>funds from any of this. So it's still kind of

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:48.720
<v Speaker 2>hinged on that security system, I guess.

0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:53.240
<v Speaker 1>And so everybody went to jail forever after that point.

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, No, that's not true at all. Hakeem got two

0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>years probation, a five thousand dollars fine.

0:36:58.480 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Secord got two years probation.

0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Is that what he got? Two years probation.

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 1>So the two guys who were actually running the company

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:08.040
<v Speaker 1>that ran this whole thing each got two years probation.

0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 2>North's conviction was overturned on a technicality, and President Bush,

0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 2>the senior Bush, on Christmas Eve, this was Christmas Eve

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.879
<v Speaker 2>as he was leaving office, right, yep, he issued six

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 2>pardons basically let everyone off the hook, including Casper Weinberger

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:27.359
<v Speaker 2>who hadn't even gone to trial yet.

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 1>No, and neither had Duyne Clarridge. Dewey Clarridge was going

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 1>to stay on trial too. Both of them received preemptive pardons.

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.000
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of people are like, that was about

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:40.600
<v Speaker 1>the shadiest set of pardons anyone's ever issued, because there's

0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people out there who say Bush really

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:46.239
<v Speaker 1>walked away from this scot free, But there is no

0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:49.279
<v Speaker 1>way he wasn't even more involved in this than Reagan was.

0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean George Bush withheld subpoena his subpoena diary

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>entries that basically indicated that he had full knowledge of

0:37:57.840 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 2>this the entire time. Eventually, in nineteen ninety two, Independent

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Counselor Lawrence Walsh asked for these again, and Bush like said,

0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I asked you for these diary entries. And Bush was like,

0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:14.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't you did. I didn't fully understand. It was inadvertent,

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:16.920
<v Speaker 2>like you asked me for a lot of stuff. I

0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't know you asked me for the diary entries. And

0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Walsh was really upset and he said, the Iran contra

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:29.120
<v Speaker 2>cover up has now been completed. And George Bush as

0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 2>a president who has such a contempt for honesty and

0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:32.959
<v Speaker 2>arrogant disregard for the rule of law.

0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I mean the forestalling that the Reagan White

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.359
<v Speaker 1>House and then later on the Bush White House did

0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:45.719
<v Speaker 1>in allowing these investigations to go forward and trying to

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:48.960
<v Speaker 1>keep Congress at arm's length after everything came out. It

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:52.040
<v Speaker 1>worked because there were articles of impeachment introduced in the

0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:56.919
<v Speaker 1>House against Ronald Reagan, and they managed to stave them

0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 1>off to where it was like, while he's leaving office, anyway,

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.399
<v Speaker 1>forget about it. This investigation took years and years and years,

0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:04.719
<v Speaker 1>and then finally when Bush pardoned everybody that was it,

0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.880
<v Speaker 1>there was nothing else to do. Everybody who was involved

0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:12.879
<v Speaker 1>was implication was off Scott free. And then the fact

0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:15.319
<v Speaker 1>that Oliver North had shredded all those documents, they were

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:17.879
<v Speaker 1>all lost to history, like the actual truth is lost

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:18.400
<v Speaker 1>to history.

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:23.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Reagan, his reputation took a hit, a temporary hit

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:26.720
<v Speaker 2>for a while there. He went from sixty three percent

0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:29.120
<v Speaker 2>in the span of a couple of months to forty

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:31.360
<v Speaker 2>three to forty seven percent depending on which poe you

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 2>looked at on his approval rating. And he would get

0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:40.160
<v Speaker 2>it back though, despite in the nineteen ninety deposition, the

0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:44.120
<v Speaker 2>very very famous deposition where Ronald Reagan said I don't

0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:47.600
<v Speaker 2>remember or I don't recall eighty eight times. That was

0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 2>very big deal. It was all over the news. Yeah,

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.040
<v Speaker 2>it was almost as famous, or just as famous as

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Bill Clinton's very famous. It depends what your definition of

0:39:56.560 --> 0:40:00.839
<v Speaker 2>is is right exactly, But Reagan bounded.

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:05.000
<v Speaker 1>He did, man to the most popular presidency since FDR. Right.

0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Upon his exit, his approval rating had bounced all

0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:10.800
<v Speaker 2>the way back up to the early sixties.

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:13.919
<v Speaker 1>Mister t famously carried him out of the White House

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:17.880
<v Speaker 1>on his shoulders on his last day in office. Oh man,

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:20.839
<v Speaker 1>so that's a wrong Contra. Man, what a story. Heck

0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:24.120
<v Speaker 1>of a story. Where's this movie? I don't know. Hopefully

0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 1>we'll get some rights to it after this episode.

0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 2>I want to play Fawn Hall.

0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Welso that's great.

0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:31.440
<v Speaker 2>You get Jerry to play Fawn Hall.

0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:34.920
<v Speaker 1>That'd be great. Jerry Well. In the meantime, while we

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:39.960
<v Speaker 1>find a suitable wig for Jerry, you can find out

0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 1>more about Iran Contra by going and reading contemporary articles

0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:45.719
<v Speaker 1>on it. I'm telling you it's really awesome. And since

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:49.800
<v Speaker 1>I said that it's time for listener mail, I'm.

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Gonna call this follow up on the moonlanding thing. Hey, guys,

0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:55.160
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, the Apollo missions and moonlandings are the

0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 2>most significant events in the history of life on Earth.

0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.800
<v Speaker 2>On the question why the Command Module and Lunar Lander

0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 2>were launched separated, I think the reason was to allow

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.839
<v Speaker 2>the Command Module to be ejected in case of an emergency.

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:11.319
<v Speaker 2>The very top of the Apollo stack was the launch

0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:14.759
<v Speaker 2>escape system, like an ejector seat on steroids. I imagine

0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.040
<v Speaker 2>they had to keep things as light and nimble as

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:19.879
<v Speaker 2>possible for the l S to be effective. I don't

0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 2>think you mentioned something that's really significant. The Apollo eight

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 2>mission was the very first time humans went to the Moon.

0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>On top of being the first time we broke free

0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:31.319
<v Speaker 2>of Earth's gravity. Like eleven, the stakes were incredibly high.

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:33.640
<v Speaker 2>They had to first insert the correct trajectory to make

0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:35.200
<v Speaker 2>it to the Moon, then do a burn to enter

0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the orbit around the Moon, then perform another burn to

0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:41.120
<v Speaker 2>break free of the Moon's gravity and head back toward Earth.

0:41:41.440 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 2>If any piece was not in place, those astronauts would

0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 2>have spent the rest of their lives either orbiting the

0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:49.839
<v Speaker 2>Sun or orbiting the Moon. Apollo eight also gave us

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:51.120
<v Speaker 2>the Earth Rise photo.

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, I've been hearing a lot about Apollo

0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:59.200
<v Speaker 1>eight lately too, So this person is hats off to you.

0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Level was on both Apollo eight and Apollo thirteen. You

0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 2>travel to the Moon twice but never had the opportunity

0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 2>to land.

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:07.240
<v Speaker 1>That is so sad.

0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Signed a space geek Noah Alloi.

0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Nice work, Noah Alloi Alloi LOOI great name too. Thanks

0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:16.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot for getting in touch with us. We love

0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:19.760
<v Speaker 1>space geeks. We love to put you guys in headlocks

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and rub your heads with our knuckles until you go stop.

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.120
<v Speaker 2>It's called a noggie right here on Earth.

0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.760
<v Speaker 1>That's right. If you want a noggy from me and Chuck,

0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:31.879
<v Speaker 1>send us a space geeky or any kind of geeky thing.

0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:33.759
<v Speaker 1>We love that kind of stuff. If you can go

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.359
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0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.399
<v Speaker 1>social links and you can send us a good old

0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 1>fashioned email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom,

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:46.120
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0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:50.759
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<v Speaker 1>E