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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. Welcome to the Stuff you Should Know. I'm
Speaker 1: Josh say Hi, Chuck. Hi. How's it coming? Chuck? Uh? Great?
Speaker 1: A little cold, but other than that fun fun, well, Chuck,
Speaker 1: you know what it's It's supposed to get really really
Speaker 1: cold this January, which is a significant day. You heard
Speaker 1: about that in this segway. That's a good one. Thanks.
Speaker 1: Is that the inauguration? Yes, it is, and they're expecting
Speaker 1: up to maybe four million people and worst case scenario
Speaker 1: they're talking is thirty thirty one degrees in raining. Everything
Speaker 1: will be icy and frozen, and there's gonna be old,
Speaker 1: you know, old people dying left and right, basically children
Speaker 1: exactly in peril. Yeah. Um, so it'll probably be the
Speaker 1: if that happens, the most the most death fraught inauguration
Speaker 1: of all time. And there's been some pretty bloody ones. Really,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, no, I'm not sure, but um
Speaker 1: I I personally am looking forward to the inauguration. Um because,
Speaker 1: as I understand it, Barack Obama. We've heard of him,
Speaker 1: president our next president. Yes, um, he is planning on
Speaker 1: restoring a part of the constitution that was shaved off
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Well, thing called habeas corpus. Yes,
Speaker 1: you've heard of this, I have. It is a Latin term.
Speaker 1: And you said you took Latin in high school. No, No,
Speaker 1: I took German? Did you? You just continue to surprise
Speaker 1: and amaze me. I seemed like a Spanish guy, don't I.
Speaker 1: I would have definitely said Spanish. I wish I had
Speaker 1: taken Spanish it with I would be better now for it.
Speaker 1: But although you could definitely get yourself a desk job
Speaker 1: at how stuff works, Frankfurt? Is there how the works?
Speaker 1: Frank okay? I I mentioned to create one for you though,
Speaker 1: if you lobbied for it enough. Uh So. Habeas corpus
Speaker 1: is Latin and it means, uh, you have the body.
Speaker 1: And essentially what it is is that it's a legal
Speaker 1: term that that it's kind of in order from a
Speaker 1: judge to a jailer saying you have the body, bring
Speaker 1: him to me so we can figure out if he's
Speaker 1: being in prison legally or not. Right. I've heard this
Speaker 1: term a lot I'm glad we're doing this because I
Speaker 1: never you know, it's one of those terms that everyone's
Speaker 1: probably heard of but doesn't know a lot about. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to it. Basically, what Habeas corpus does
Speaker 1: is we have a set of um guarantees in the
Speaker 1: Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Actually, if you really
Speaker 1: take a look at the Bill of Rights, you know
Speaker 1: the Framer's top ten great protections that that that list,
Speaker 1: Um they most of it has to do with being prosecuted, right, um,
Speaker 1: you know thinks so in taking all together, it's called
Speaker 1: due process. So you have a right to confront your accusers,
Speaker 1: you have a right to counsel, speedy trial. Speedy trial
Speaker 1: is a big one. Fair trial, fair trial, huge. But
Speaker 1: the thing is is, you know, the these things can
Speaker 1: be guaranteed to you and I all day long, but
Speaker 1: they don't amount to anything if we don't have any
Speaker 1: action to take to ensure that they're actually being carried out,
Speaker 1: that the the these guarantees are are being delivered on.
Speaker 1: And that's what Habeas corpus is. It's it's that mechanism
Speaker 1: by which these constitutional protections are you know, guaranteed. That's
Speaker 1: a great thanks a lot. Well that's it for today. Um,
Speaker 1: if that's all for me, folks, well, don't put this
Speaker 1: on me, because there's a lot to come. Do you
Speaker 1: want me to carry the corpus part? Okay? So, um,
Speaker 1: it's not this is not a new concept. It it
Speaker 1: actually dates back before the Framers, uh created the constitution
Speaker 1: and ratified in nine goes back to England. Correct, it's
Speaker 1: it's English common law in the in the seventeenth century.
Speaker 1: If you're a Catholic like I was raised, you would
Speaker 1: be in grave danger of being picked up by the
Speaker 1: king'sman and throne in jail. Because this is a time
Speaker 1: when I believe it was King Henry, one of the kings.
Speaker 1: You know, there's just so many of them I can't
Speaker 1: keep them straight in Um, he when whoever was king,
Speaker 1: had had established the Church of England, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know that was the big rival to the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: So he wanted a state sponsored, state run church and
Speaker 1: didn't really want any competition. So if you're a Catholic,
Speaker 1: you were probably going to be in prison and heldon,
Speaker 1: not given a trial or anything like that nod process.
Speaker 1: So Parliament came up with this this protection and actually
Speaker 1: it made date back further than that. Some people say
Speaker 1: that it's it's kind of implied by the Magna Carta,
Speaker 1: which was twelve fifteen at running med It's a long
Speaker 1: long time ago, it is, um. But it it actually
Speaker 1: became codified as habeas corpus in in the seventeenth century England,
Speaker 1: and then the framers picked it up and it's in
Speaker 1: the constitution. It's a huge right, you know. UM. And
Speaker 1: in American practice, if you have habeas corpus, the process
Speaker 1: goes like this, you're tried or you're jailed. Even you
Speaker 1: can say you're jailed. Most of the time you've already
Speaker 1: been tried and now you've been convicted and incarcerated. And
Speaker 1: a writ of habeas corpus can actually be a legal
Speaker 1: strategy where after all of your appeals run out, you
Speaker 1: can use it. You can issue a petition of habeas
Speaker 1: corpus and you're saying, hey, judge, you know I don't
Speaker 1: think at my trial I was given a fair trial.
Speaker 1: Say you know my counselor was inadequate, Um, he was
Speaker 1: drunk all the time. That kind of thing, or the
Speaker 1: prosecution like hid you know, important evidence that would have
Speaker 1: exonerated you you can, you can issue this in a
Speaker 1: petition of habeas corpus. Judge considers that if the judge
Speaker 1: decides that you know, it raises enough questions about the
Speaker 1: legality of your imprisonment, you will well, no, it's not
Speaker 1: another trial, it's a hearing and actually no habeas corpus.
Speaker 1: It's not a rehash of your actual trial. So it's
Speaker 1: not an appeal at all, not really, but it's it
Speaker 1: kind of falls in step with the appeal process. It's
Speaker 1: so what happened as far as you know, you murdered
Speaker 1: somebody or that's what you're accused of. The judge and
Speaker 1: the habeas corpus hearing, it doesn't care about that. What
Speaker 1: they care about is evidence that shows that you're you know,
Speaker 1: your defense attorney was drunk, that kind of thing. Sure,
Speaker 1: I get it. And the So these things also tend
Speaker 1: to as a legal strategy, tended to come in a flurry.
Speaker 1: Would say, like a prosecutor is found to have been,
Speaker 1: you know, um, a cocaine user, and it comes out,
Speaker 1: so everyone that person prosecuted all of a sudden lines
Speaker 1: up there rid of habeas corp They they start sending
Speaker 1: out petitions of habeas corporate your corpy. I guess the
Speaker 1: petition is first, and then and then if the judge
Speaker 1: thinks that it's worth hearing the judge issues are rid
Speaker 1: of habeas corpus bring the body to me. Uh and
Speaker 1: and that's that's pretty much how it's used. But you
Speaker 1: can actually, um, you can contest your in car reseration,
Speaker 1: I believe, at any point, but using it as a
Speaker 1: as a legal strategy, that's usually how it's used. It's
Speaker 1: kind of depressing. I think if I were a prisoner,
Speaker 1: just being referred to as the body is I don't know,
Speaker 1: that would worry me immediately. Yeah, and corpus sounds a
Speaker 1: lot like corpse. Like I said, I didn't take Latin,
Speaker 1: but I have a feeling those two are probably connected, right.
Speaker 1: I thought you said you did take Latin German German? Really?
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I think though being referred to as the body,
Speaker 1: I would be much more um, concerned with the fact
Speaker 1: that I was in prison. You know, at that point
Speaker 1: you're probably already used to being called the body or
Speaker 1: the booty or something horrible, and you know, being those
Speaker 1: those those names being made good on, right, you have
Speaker 1: your prior recent line exactly. Yeah, So check. Um, we
Speaker 1: we understand Habeas corpus kind of get an impression of
Speaker 1: why it's important. Now, it's it keeps us from being
Speaker 1: thrown into jail and the key being thrown away. Right,
Speaker 1: it's our one recourse because really think about it, the system,
Speaker 1: it is this entity that stands between the state which
Speaker 1: has the power to throw you in jail, and the
Speaker 1: individual which can be thrown in jail. The whole purpose
Speaker 1: of the court system, the legal system, is to find
Speaker 1: out whether or not this person should be incarcerated or
Speaker 1: punished guilt or innocence. Um. So, the it's kind of insinuated.
Speaker 1: It's placed in between the state and the individual, um too,
Speaker 1: as a buffer, as a protection as much as it
Speaker 1: is you know, the the judge and jury that can
Speaker 1: and exec executioner cases. Right. Okay, So so now we
Speaker 1: understand how important it is, which kind of gives us
Speaker 1: an idea then of how egregious the Military Commission's Act
Speaker 1: of two thousand six was. Right. Well, let's back up
Speaker 1: a little, because let's do it. This is not the
Speaker 1: first time the Military Act of two thousand six, Commissions
Speaker 1: Act that Habeas corpus has been revoked. Oh oh, that
Speaker 1: was one other thing we should probably say, hunch chuck.
Speaker 1: In the Bill of Rights, it actually specifically mentions habeas
Speaker 1: corpus it's actually thinking the Constitution. It says the only
Speaker 1: time that habeas corpus can be suspended, suspended is in
Speaker 1: times of insurrection or rebellion, when it's when it serves
Speaker 1: the public safety can be the only time it can
Speaker 1: be suspended. Not that he opens it up to some
Speaker 1: interpretation obviously, you know what it shouldn't because it's so explicit.
Speaker 1: But yes, sadly, over the course of American history has
Speaker 1: been interpreted in my in my opinion, incorrectly. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: you were saying, you give us some examples. Well, one
Speaker 1: example is during the Civil War President Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln
Speaker 1: suspended habeas corpus um when the Civil War broke out,
Speaker 1: and uh, five years later it was reinstated at the
Speaker 1: end of the Civil War and which insurrection rebellion. You
Speaker 1: could make a pretty good case that he had every
Speaker 1: constitutional right to do that Civil War for goodness sakex uh.
Speaker 1: And then in sadly, one of our black eyes I
Speaker 1: guess on our nation's history was the internment of Japanese
Speaker 1: Americans during World War two, and the same thing happened.
Speaker 1: Then more than a hundred thousand Japanese Americans were detained
Speaker 1: and held um, many of them American born citizens. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, think about how screwed up that is. That
Speaker 1: would be like after nine eleven if we had um
Speaker 1: had round up every Muslim, every Muslim, not even Muslim,
Speaker 1: you know, because that would be based on religion. This
Speaker 1: is based on a nationality. So let's say we we
Speaker 1: rounded up every Saudi American and put them into soccer
Speaker 1: stadiums that we had, you know, reinforced with concertina wire
Speaker 1: and fences and German shepherds just because they were Staudias.
Speaker 1: This happened like sixty years ago, not so long ago,
Speaker 1: so very good friend of Syrian, I can't imagine a
Speaker 1: world where we would do something like that. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's a good thing you weren't alive and ninety forty two,
Speaker 1: my friend, because you would have wept tears and the
Speaker 1: most ironic orup I guess not that words not appropriate.
Speaker 1: But the most surprising part of the revocation of Habeas
Speaker 1: corpus in nineteen forty two for Japanese Americans was that
Speaker 1: it took uh until nineteen seventy six, Jerry Ford. Gerald
Speaker 1: Ford finally issued an executive order that reinstated the rid
Speaker 1: of habeas corpus or the right of habeas corpus to
Speaker 1: Japanese Americans. So, for that that thirty plus year period,
Speaker 1: if you were a Japanese American, technically they could throw
Speaker 1: you in jail for whatever and you couldn't uh contest
Speaker 1: the legality of your incarceration, which is scary, it is.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that happened. I don't know, that's a
Speaker 1: great question. I have a feeling it was probably just
Speaker 1: not acted on, and no one really thought much about
Speaker 1: it until gerald Ford popped up on his radar somehow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder how you forget something like that, you know,
Speaker 1: Roosevelt just forgot to pass it along, you know, Hey, Truman,
Speaker 1: don't I guarantee Japanese Americans probably didn't forget. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't think so. So now we're up to the modern
Speaker 1: day time. So the Military Commissions Act two thousand six.
Speaker 1: You remember Mark Foley, yes, Florida representative, I think so
Speaker 1: okay um, And he had a little the email tryst
Speaker 1: with one of his male aids. His pages, little man
Speaker 1: boy I think he was like seventeen or eighteen. That
Speaker 1: story happened the it broke coincidentally, the same time, Congress
Speaker 1: passed the Military Commissions Acted two thousand six, which allowed
Speaker 1: it to kind of go into the radar exactly. It
Speaker 1: was this huge sweeping act. Really, although it succinct, it
Speaker 1: really had huge repercussions, and it was basically aimed at
Speaker 1: terror suspects um and as far as Habeas corpus goes,
Speaker 1: it related to it related to that right by revoking
Speaker 1: it for anyone deemed an enemy combatant, which once again
Speaker 1: they leave it nice and vague exactly. And they also
Speaker 1: said that the President and Congress and a few other
Speaker 1: high officials can deem whoever they want enemy combatant and
Speaker 1: that can't be contested in Once you're deemed an enemy combatant,
Speaker 1: you are stripped of your right of habeas corpus, which
Speaker 1: means that's why that's how all these people down at
Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay were kept. And definitely uh and the this
Speaker 1: Military Commissions Act, it's so cynical. It was passed after
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court had ruled that these people were being
Speaker 1: held there illegally in in flying in the face of
Speaker 1: the Geneva Convention. So Bush had, you know, Congress passed
Speaker 1: this federal law that basically overturned that Supreme Court ruling.
Speaker 1: It's nuts. So all these people are being held there's
Speaker 1: enemy combatants, and you think, you know, it's who cares
Speaker 1: they're terrorists. The problem is is there were plenty of
Speaker 1: um of his down there where people were released because
Speaker 1: they've been picked up just because they had the same
Speaker 1: name as a terror. UM. There is a guy whose
Speaker 1: name was maher Are I believe that's the pronunciation, you know,
Speaker 1: I butcher foreign names. He especially Mr r r Uh.
Speaker 1: He was a Syrian born Canadian national. He's a naturalized
Speaker 1: citizen computer engineer. And he popped up on the Canadian
Speaker 1: Mounted Police's intelligence watch list in two thousand two. UM,
Speaker 1: and they alerted the US authorities and some other you know,
Speaker 1: friendly nations that this guy was on their list and
Speaker 1: that he left the country. He went to Tunisia, all right,
Speaker 1: and on his way back to to Canada, his home,
Speaker 1: he had a layover at JFK in New York and
Speaker 1: he was picked up by federal authorities. US officials and
Speaker 1: they secretly rendered to Syria, where he was kept in
Speaker 1: a prison and tortured for a year before the Syrians,
Speaker 1: who we outsourced the tortured two you remember, um, concluded
Speaker 1: that he wasn't a terrorist and had no ties of terrorism.
Speaker 1: The the Syrians were the ones who decided that the
Speaker 1: U S couldn't even figure it out. But after your tortured,
Speaker 1: luckily for Mr ar, the Syrians concluded that he wasn't
Speaker 1: a terrorist and set him free. Now that Canada get involved,
Speaker 1: I would think that they was, Yes, Canada is in
Speaker 1: big trouble, but really the US is in bigger trouble,
Speaker 1: um or was? I think it's been swept under the
Speaker 1: carpet by now. Um. But the US officials told the
Speaker 1: Canadians that they were going to send him back to
Speaker 1: Switzerland because he went from Tunisia to Switzerland, and that
Speaker 1: they the U S said, hey, thanks a lot for
Speaker 1: telling us. We're just gonna grab him and send him
Speaker 1: back to Switzerland. We don't want him in the country,
Speaker 1: and what you don't really want him either, right, And
Speaker 1: they put him on a plane to Jordan, took overland
Speaker 1: of Syria, gave him to the Syrians to be tortured
Speaker 1: find out what he knew. I think one point, do
Speaker 1: you make in the article is it was a retroactive act,
Speaker 1: so it was passing two thousand six. This guy was
Speaker 1: picked up when two thousand two. Yes, so it was
Speaker 1: a retroactive act, meaning anyone picked up after September. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had no habeas corpus right. And it also gave
Speaker 1: retroactive immunity all the way back to September eleven one.
Speaker 1: Any US official who was engaged in anything that can
Speaker 1: be construed as torture or illegal as far as it
Speaker 1: was fell under the umbrella of the War on Terror,
Speaker 1: which is beyond screwed up. So we still have this
Speaker 1: act today, it's still on the books, um, and it's
Speaker 1: still a huge bone of contention. And hopefully, from what
Speaker 1: I understand, when Obama comes back into or when he
Speaker 1: comes into office, he's going to basically repeal the Military
Speaker 1: Commissions Act. He's going to hopefully get it repealed, and um,
Speaker 1: he's going to come up with a new lead system
Speaker 1: that's design just to prosecute high level, high value terror
Speaker 1: suspects in the US. So basically it's gonna let a
Speaker 1: bunch of them go, then he's gonna send them back
Speaker 1: to their country of origin for prosecution. Incarceration or freedom.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh, the low level ones they're just
Speaker 1: gonna prosecute in regular American courts. Then the high level
Speaker 1: ones are gonna be a more secret court um where
Speaker 1: they get all the aspects of due process, but it's
Speaker 1: not as transparent. So you know, you they won't be
Speaker 1: able if their accusers a CIA informant, they won't be
Speaker 1: able to face that accusers. Sorry, t s you know,
Speaker 1: but there's still evidence is going to be submitted. Um. Oh.
Speaker 1: Another thing about the Military Commission's Act, testimony uh gathered
Speaker 1: from torture was actually admissible. Really yeah, so if you
Speaker 1: if you tortured somebody and they confessed to being a
Speaker 1: terrorist to get you to stop, Oh well there's your confession. Amazing.
Speaker 1: And you know, this isn't a liberal Democrat thing, it's
Speaker 1: a human rights thing. So definitely we should just point
Speaker 1: that out that it's not like uh President elect Obama
Speaker 1: just wants to set terrorists free all over the all
Speaker 1: over the world or anything. No, definitely not. And he's
Speaker 1: he's actually he's also getting criticism from both sides too, like,
Speaker 1: you know, should we set up a legal a new
Speaker 1: legal system just for this, you know, the A. C.
Speaker 1: L Use criticizing the plan just as much as Republicans
Speaker 1: are criticizing him for shutting down Guantanamo. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with you wholeheartedly. It is a human rights issue,
Speaker 1: and um, I'm glad to see that it's going to
Speaker 1: be resolved. I very strongly believe it's going to be resolved,
Speaker 1: to let's hope. Yeah. The worst part is is that,
Speaker 1: you know, America is going to spend the next twenty
Speaker 1: years trying to um regain our our our image or
Speaker 1: our standards, you know. Um. And then by about that time,
Speaker 1: that's when all those horrendous documents are going to come
Speaker 1: out of everything that went down in Guantanamo. It's just
Speaker 1: that second jab to the eye. Yeah. Yeah, So, uh,
Speaker 1: let's hope as corpus ladies and gentlemen look for one
Speaker 1: time am obey to go the way of disco, hopefully
Speaker 1: in the next several months. And uh, you know what
Speaker 1: time it is now, don't you check? I think so?
Speaker 1: I think it's reader mail time, listener mail. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: I've got a little Thanksgiving episode love from some folks.
Speaker 1: Sweet and if you recall, during the Thanksgiving episode, I
Speaker 1: made I put the call out to the stuff. You
Speaker 1: should know nation that if anyone out there is not
Speaker 1: a vegetarian and they forego the turkey for let's say, steak,
Speaker 1: then I would love to hear from them. Let's let's
Speaker 1: play the Colick show. Yeah. Uh, of Americans now eat
Speaker 1: turkey on Thanksgiving, and I would imagine the tim percent
Speaker 1: who don't. A lot of those are probably vegetarian. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine you would choose another meat if you're not
Speaker 1: a vegetarian other than turkey. You have to be some
Speaker 1: sort of communists. Yeah. If we have listeners out there
Speaker 1: who do, who are not vegetarian and who opt for
Speaker 1: steak on Thanksgiving, I'd love to hear from you. Okay,
Speaker 1: so yet you said it, So there we have it.
Speaker 1: So we actually heard from a few folks. We heard
Speaker 1: from Chris Ent. That's Ian T. Hope. I'm pronouncing that right.
Speaker 1: Chris Um. He married a lovely lady from Tokyo and
Speaker 1: he has a tradition that Josh and I we want
Speaker 1: to be invited over next year, Mr, and we would
Speaker 1: gladly accept any invitation you extended. Right, I would forego
Speaker 1: the turkey because what they do, Uh, the wife doesn't
Speaker 1: like the turkey flavor. This is a this is at uh.
Speaker 1: So what he does is he buys an entire New
Speaker 1: York strip which is about ten pounds of beef, and
Speaker 1: he cuts it up into humongous inch and a quarter steaks,
Speaker 1: and then on Thanksgiving he cooks them up on the
Speaker 1: grill with pear wood and actual wood charcoal, and he
Speaker 1: smokes a salmon. Well, he says, pear wood and actual
Speaker 1: wood charcoal. I'm just reading, uh, And he smokes a
Speaker 1: wild salmon and the smoke. So they have smoked salmon
Speaker 1: and h wood fire grilled steaks and that's what they
Speaker 1: have for the leftover. Said fantastic again, Mr, And you
Speaker 1: know we will be giving you well, actually you already
Speaker 1: know our email. It's a stuff podcast that how stuff
Speaker 1: works out constantly. Just send us those invitations along, right,
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of more to him too quickly.
Speaker 1: Chris Corby responded that his family eats chicken a capon specifically,
Speaker 1: which I looked it up. It's a large castrated rooster, yeah,
Speaker 1: he says, I think it's a big chicken. I noticed that,
Speaker 1: and hate I hate to tell you, but that's just
Speaker 1: so it's sort of like a chicken and it's like
Speaker 1: a turkey is as big as a turkey. Turkey with
Speaker 1: a falsetto voice right uh. And then we heard from
Speaker 1: Travis Ilig, who is a not a vegetarian. He hates turkey,
Speaker 1: even though his whole family loves it, he doesn't like
Speaker 1: the flavor and he said that makes Thanksgiving his least
Speaker 1: favorite holiday, which is very sad because he grew up
Speaker 1: eating potatoes and rolls uh and having to answer questions
Speaker 1: about why he doesn't like turkey every year. So now
Speaker 1: he's done everything from bringing his own Chinese food, pizza
Speaker 1: and lobster. I would go for the lot yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh dining with the family or he said, the last
Speaker 1: few years they've gone to a Thanksgiving buffet so they
Speaker 1: can have their turkey. He can have his uh spaghetti
Speaker 1: wherever he wants. What's that last guy's name, Travis ill.
Speaker 1: I think Travis has the saddest story out of the three,
Speaker 1: and I think just for that he deserves a how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works t shirt. Travis, if you want to send
Speaker 1: us your name and address to Stuffed podcast at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, we will gladly pass that along
Speaker 1: to you and you can wear it happily while you
Speaker 1: sadly eat your spaghetti on Thanksgiving. Anybody else who wants
Speaker 1: to drop us a line let us know something we
Speaker 1: screwed up in this podcast, which I'm quite sure we
Speaker 1: did again. It's stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com.
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