1
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 1: From Hollywood thet a night show starring Johnny Carson. This

2
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: is Ed Mcmahonnlick. Doc Severn sent a NBC Augograd fight

3
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:24,080
Speaker 1: you to enjoin Johnny and his guest Charles.

4
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 2: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

5
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 2: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, October twenty third,

6
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am

7
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,840
Speaker 2: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Situta. I'm

8
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: in LA. He's in New York, and Variety has reporters

9
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 2: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

10
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,519
Speaker 2: we'll depart from our usual format of business news and

11
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 2: analysis for an extra special centennial salute to Johnny Carson.

12
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson was born on this day, October twenty third,

13
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago in Corning, Iowa. He died a

14
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 2: little over twenty years ago in retirement in Los Angeles.

15
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 2: In his sixty nine years in between, Johnny Carson became

16
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 2: an icon of television and a symbol of postwar American cool.

17
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 2: Carson's legend and his influence still looms large over late

18
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: night TV, even in its sadly diminished state. About ten

19
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 2: years ago, the Antenna TV channel ran full episodes of

20
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies and eighties era Tonight Show episodes. Every one

21
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,120
Speaker 2: of them was a time capsule, and every one of

22
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 2: them showed why Johnny Carson was the master of let

23
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 2: Me tell You a Story type of TV. Carson's legacy

24
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 2: is defined by his thirty year run on The Tonight Show.

25
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 2: It stretched from nineteen sixty two to nineteen ninety two,

26
00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 2: from the days of Camelot and JFK to the end

27
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 2: of the Cold World War and the rise of Bill Clinton.

28
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 2: But Carson's TV career didn't begin with The Tonight Show.

29
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,640
Speaker 2: To mark his centennial, we dove deep into the Variety

30
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,639
Speaker 2: archives to trace the early TV shows and MC gigs

31
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,399
Speaker 2: that led him to his storied tenure at NBC. Variety's

32
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 2: pages are chock full of carson coverage of the day

33
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,640
Speaker 2: by day march of his career, starting with his first

34
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 2: appearance in Variety on October twentieth, nineteen fifty two, and

35
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 2: It's a Doozy. At the time, Carson was in Los

36
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 2: Angeles hosting a live local comedy variety show for what

37
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 2: is now KCBSTV channel two. It was called Carson's Cellar.

38
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 2: Here's a sample of the show.

39
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 3: K NXD with its eyes wide open, cautiously present Carson Seller.

40
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 4: And here's the guy who went to what conference is

41
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 4: that our Johnny has?

42
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, everybody, thank you very much for

43
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 3: coming into the cellar tonight. It's a little bit cold

44
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 3: tonight back. I think that's why we got one young

45
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,160
Speaker 3: lady out there before the show. I said, why did

46
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 3: you come and see the show? And she says, the

47
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 3: carder was cold outside. But we like to have an

48
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,959
Speaker 3: honest audience, and tonight we's got a variety of things

49
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 3: on the cellar. Did you see the game?

50
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 2: After nam, Carson made the top of page one with

51
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 2: a short item noting that the show had taken a

52
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 2: jab at the political battle then raging between presidential candidates

53
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: Dwight Eisenhower and Adlie Stevenson over income tax statement disclosures

54
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 2: or the lack thereof, particularly for Eisenhower's vice presidential running mate,

55
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 2: Richard Nixon. So with that context, here's the full story

56
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 2: that ran on October twentieth, nineteen fifty two, two weeks

57
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: before Eisenhower or would be elected to the first of

58
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,880
Speaker 2: his two terms in the White House.

59
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 5: Where's the money? The political campaign is providing new fodder

60
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,000
Speaker 5: for TV comedians MC Johnny Carson's Saturday Night on Carson

61
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 5: Seller over KNXT opened up by revealing income taxes of

62
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 5: the Troop, which includes the New Yorkers, and wound up

63
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,799
Speaker 5: challenging all other performers in LA to do the same.

64
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 5: Carson noted that for the first year listed nineteen forty five,

65
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,560
Speaker 5: one hundred and fourteen dollars income for the troop was

66
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 5: from the State Unemployment Office.

67
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 2: After that splashy first item, Carson's mentions in variety picked

68
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 2: up steam. By early nineteen fifty three, he was noted

69
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 2: in our pages several times a month by the following year,

70
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,080
Speaker 2: and for the next four decades, not a week went

71
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 2: by without at least one reference, usually many more. Because

72
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,359
Speaker 2: Carson worked NonStop. He hosted Carson's Seller in LA, he

73
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,679
Speaker 2: worked as a writer on The Red Skale Melton Show.

74
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,479
Speaker 2: He did nightclubs and personal appearances and telethons and charity

75
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 2: gigs just like every other rising comedian of the day.

76
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,240
Speaker 2: Throughout the nineteen fifties, Carson hosted a number of local

77
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,600
Speaker 2: and network series for CBS, including Platter Panel and Earn

78
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,920
Speaker 2: Your Vacation. The latter was a quiz show in which

79
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 2: contestants told Carson their personal reasons for wanting to travel

80
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,720
Speaker 2: to a certain place. Carson then asked them trivia questions

81
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 2: related to the location, and if they got enough of

82
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 2: them right, they won the trip. By the late nineteen fifties,

83
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 2: Carson had a steady gig hosting the ABC daytime game

84
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,279
Speaker 2: show Who Do You Trust, which involved competitions between married couples.

85
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,919
Speaker 2: He was also an affable regular on the talk show circuit.

86
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 2: Throughout his life, Carson was known for his efforts to

87
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,000
Speaker 2: keep a low profile off camera. He didn't court the

88
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 2: spotlight for his personal life, even though he did make

89
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,840
Speaker 2: headlines at times for his many marriages and the tragical

90
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 2: life loss of his thirty nine year old son Rick

91
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 2: in a car crash in nineteen ninety one. In light

92
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 2: of this, a story we found in the August thirtieth,

93
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one edition of Variety is all the more remarkable.

94
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 2: It features coverage of remarks that Carson made during a

95
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,520
Speaker 2: trip to London to make an appearance on a British

96
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 2: talk show hosted by American singer Paul Anka Carson let

97
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 2: loose on his opinion on the state of the American

98
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 2: TV industry and the state of the comedy talent pipeline.

99
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 2: He couldn't have been more wrong in his assessments of

100
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 2: the industry and fun fact, Paul Anko would go on

101
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 2: to co write with Carson the distinctive Da Da Da

102
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 2: Dada Tonight Show theme that you heard at the top

103
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 2: of this episode. Here's the entire story.

104
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 5: Johnny Carson responds us TV after five years, You're in trouble. Dateline, London,

105
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 5: August twenty nine. Johnny Carson, us comic featured on American

106
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 5: broadcasting companies daytime show Who Do You Trust, flew into

107
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 5: Britain for a week to tape a guest spot on

108
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 5: the Paul Anka Show for Granada TV So Far Unslotted,

109
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 5: and he aired his observations on USTv and its limitations.

110
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 5: Carson says that while American TV exists primarily to sell products,

111
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 5: no great new paths and entertainment are going to be trod. Indeed,

112
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 5: many of TV's best writers have given up the medium

113
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 5: because the sponsorship system inhibits them. The fear of upsetting people,

114
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 5: especially when they are in their own homes is a

115
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 5: very real one. To the sponsors, it's easy to understand

116
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 5: why they want to book only tried and tested shows

117
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 5: and won't tread new ground, and says Carson, there are

118
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 5: no training grounds left, and in a few years, when

119
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 5: today's top liners ie Jack Benny, Bob Hope, Perry Como

120
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 5: are no longer around, who's going to replace them? All

121
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 5: the big names in TV today had training grounds in

122
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 5: other fields of showbiz, and it was easy for them

123
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 5: to move into TV. But where can a newcomer find

124
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 5: a place to be bad in Longevity in TV is

125
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 5: around five years, opines Carson, who has had just that

126
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 5: long under contract to ABC and intends to seek an

127
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 5: extension in September. After that, you're on the way out.

128
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 5: No writer or artist is prolific enough to keep an

129
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 5: act fresh for much more than that, says Carson. Reason

130
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 5: Carson has been busy for the past five years and

131
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 5: now looks to be in the running for a late

132
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 5: night spot with ABC two is because he works live

133
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,560
Speaker 5: and interviews people, he opines. Last year he reached an

134
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 5: average daytime audience of five point five million, which he

135
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 5: says contents his web.

136
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 2: Carson wasn't the first to host the Tonight Show for NBC.

137
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,120
Speaker 2: Steve Allen got their first in nineteen fifty four, and

138
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 2: then he was succeeded by Jack Parr. When NBC and

139
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 2: Jack Parr parted ways in nineteen sixty one, Carson was

140
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,319
Speaker 2: perfectly situated to be a top contender for the plum gig.

141
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 2: The reporting in Variety's pages from the day about the

142
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 2: frenzy jockeying for the Tonight Show throne is fascinating and

143
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 2: richly detailed. Change the names in the dynamic today is

144
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,319
Speaker 2: so much the same the stories could have been written yesterday.

145
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 2: Here's a key paragraph from a lengthy story that ran

146
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 2: on November twenty second, nineteen sixty one, with the headline

147
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 2: who gets NBC late night slot.

148
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 5: NBC at this point isn't venturing any guesses as to

149
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 5: who the possible successor will be, although it's known a

150
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 5: variety of names have been tentatively tossed into the hopper.

151
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 5: Parr himself has made some casual on the air references

152
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,439
Speaker 5: which could suggest his own candidate might be Bob Newhart,

153
00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,079
Speaker 5: now holding down his own half hour NBCTV show. The

154
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 5: possibility of Steve Allen, returning to the late late slot,

155
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 5: which he occupied not long before. Par came has been raised. Also,

156
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,920
Speaker 5: the name of Johnny Carson has been advanced. Actually, NBC

157
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 5: says we'd got one hundred names. Pretty soon we'll be

158
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 5: ready to make a decision.

159
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 2: As it turned out, ABC played hardball and held Carson

160
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 2: to his who Do You Trust? Contract? His deal with

161
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,040
Speaker 2: NBC was set, but he had to wait about nine

162
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,840
Speaker 2: months before he could take over the Tonight Show in

163
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 2: October nineteen sixty two. NBC played the little hardball back

164
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 2: in February when it had Carson MC its presentation to

165
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 2: affiliate stations as part of the National Association of Broadcasters

166
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,160
Speaker 2: convention that year. As we know, it all worked out

167
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 2: for Johnny Carson, and it was a pretty good deal

168
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 2: for America too. Carson's style on TV was smart, smooth, witty,

169
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,679
Speaker 2: and aloof He was erudite and a Midwestern everyman all

170
00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 2: at the same time. On his last week of shows,

171
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson poured his heart out on air like never before.

172
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 2: In May nineteen ninety two, I remember vividly watching Carson's

173
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,840
Speaker 2: final show live. It was a Taylor's Swift album, drop

174
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 2: level cultural event. It was beyond moving as the silver

175
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 2: Fox with the glinty eyes sat on a stool and

176
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 2: thanked the viewing audience for letting him into their homes.

177
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 2: For some thirty years, but I haven't even stronger memory

178
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 2: of watching Carson's second to last show, when guests Robin

179
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 2: Williams and Bette Midler poured their hearts out to him

180
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,680
Speaker 2: about all that he'd done for their careers. Midler came

181
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 2: prepared with one of Carson's favorite pop tunes at the ready,

182
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 2: a little remembered love song called Here's that Rainy Day.

183
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 2: I'll never forget the way Carson looked at Middler as

184
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,199
Speaker 2: they sang it together impromptu, mostly a cappella at the desk.

185
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,880
Speaker 2: We'll let Bett and Johnny sing us out.

186
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: I should have.

187
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 6: Saved those left over dreams.

188
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:00,640
Speaker 3: Anybody.

189
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,679
Speaker 6: Here's that rainy day?

190
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:10,760
Speaker 7: He will Rainy Day told me about, and I laughed

191
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 7: at the thought that it might turn out this way.

192
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 6: Where is that warn?

193
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 7: I'll wish that all through side.

194
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 4: After it brought my love s. Funny becomes a cold

195
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 4: rainy day, Funny that rainy day?

196
00:12:49,480 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 2: He thanks for listening. This episode was written by me

197
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 2: Cynthia Littleton. With contributions from Clayton Davis as the voice

198
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 2: of Vintage Variety, copy Sticks Nick's Hickpicks. Please leave us

199
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 2: a review at the podcast platform of your choice, and

200
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,439
Speaker 2: please tune in tomorrow for a bonus Friday episode of

201
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 2: Daily Variety. Because there's just that much going on. In

202
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 2: the meantime, the Beach Boys will sing us out with

203
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 2: their great Johnny Carson tribute song from nineteen seventy seven.

204
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 6: He sits behind his microphone, he speaks scher Man.

205
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:52,679
Speaker 3: God.

206
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 2: Ever nay live thirday of of

207
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,959
Speaker 5: It's nice to have on the jolting