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Speaker 1: The bishops are urging the Supreme Court to overrule Trump's

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Speaker 1: immigration orders. Open Sism seems to be on the horizon

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Speaker 1: between the traditionalist Society of Saint Pius the Tenth and

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Speaker 1: the Vaticant. Meanwhile, a humpbacked whale and Muslim worshippers enter cathedrals.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to it on this Prayerful Posse. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe to the show.

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Speaker 1: You'll see all new episodes there and it's totally free.

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Speaker 1: Or visit Raymondarroyo dot com if you'd like to help

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Speaker 1: contribute and continue the work of the show. And now

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Speaker 1: let's convene the Prayerful Posse. I'm joined by canon Lawyer

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Speaker 1: Priest of the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray,

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Speaker 1: an editor in chief of the Catholic Thing dot org,

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Speaker 1: Robert Royal Gents. The Bishop's Conference here in the United

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Speaker 1: States filed in Amieka's brief with the Supreme Court this week,

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Speaker 1: urging them to strike down President Trump's executive order which

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Speaker 1: would end birthright citizenship. Now, under that order, babies born

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Speaker 1: to non citizens would not immediately qualify for citizenship. The

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Speaker 1: bishops argue that God given human dignity is at stake

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Speaker 1: and that the order should be ruled unconstitutional. Father, are

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Speaker 1: the bishops confusing human dignity here with instant citizenship?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't see the argument that eliminating birthright citizenship

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Speaker 2: violates human dignity because you're saying it's a legal status question,

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Speaker 2: and if you are, if the Supreme Court determines that

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Speaker 2: the Constitution the United States does not endorse birthright citizenship,

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Speaker 2: then that's the legal arrangements in this country. There are

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Speaker 2: many other countries that do not have birthright citizenship. I

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Speaker 2: think it's pretty common in most European countries, having done

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Speaker 2: a study of it. But I was told in Spain,

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Speaker 2: for iNTS, if you're born in Spain doesn't mean you

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Speaker 2: become a Spaniard legally simply by being born there. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: legal determinations are part of democratic discussion and then legislating.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'll say that birthright citizenship is a nice

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Speaker 2: thing if the people want it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Bob, does the Vatican City state confer birthright

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Speaker 1: citizenship if a pregnant woman gives birth within the confines

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Speaker 1: of the Holy See like one of the Swiss Guard

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Speaker 1: families that I know you've covered and known over the years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a good question, isn't it. If someone

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Speaker 3: would raise that, I think we would find out very

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Speaker 3: quickly whether they're being consistent about this.

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Speaker 1: And well, I know the answer, but I'll let you answer.

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Speaker 3: Well, can you tell me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they do not allow birthrights or all those Swiss

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Speaker 1: babies would be Vatican citizens, citizens with a passport, they

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Speaker 1: don't have them. They don't.

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Speaker 3: Actually look back when this whole controversy about birthright citizenship arose,

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Speaker 3: I delived into it a little bit and historically, and

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Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see if the court decides that

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Speaker 3: this is true true historically, what we've been thinking of

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Speaker 3: as birthright citizenship, and you know, anchor babies people come

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Speaker 3: here deliberately to have their children born in the United States,

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Speaker 3: or there'd be citizens and whatnot. That is not the

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Speaker 3: original understanding, at least according to some legal scholars, because

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Speaker 3: you know, in the eighteenth century, when when our founders

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Speaker 3: were laying down a constitution, they were very careful with language,

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Speaker 3: and so when they talk about people being born in

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Speaker 3: the United States are citizens, they entered a qualification saying

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Speaker 3: all those who are eligible to become citizens, and you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that they were worried about, for example,

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Speaker 3: is there lots of ambassadors who are going to be

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Speaker 3: in Washington, and if their kids are born here, are

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Speaker 3: they therefore citizens of the United States. They didn't want

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Speaker 3: that because they had some suspicions about foreign influence and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: So I think they are original. If we go back

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Speaker 3: to the original position according to our constitutional order, the

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Speaker 3: bishops are really out of order in this case.

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Speaker 1: Why Father has immigration policy become a new dogma in

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Speaker 1: the American Church and tell us what a prudential judgment

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Speaker 1: is and how that may or may not affect this question.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's an understandable sympathy for poor people

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Speaker 2: who want to come to a wealthy country and you know,

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Speaker 2: make their way because most legal immigrants and their descendants,

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Speaker 2: you know, became richer when they came to the United States.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I understand that poor people in Mexico

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Speaker 2: and other places they would like to have a better

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Speaker 2: life to come here. But the principle that the Catholic

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Speaker 2: Church endorses is you have to act in a legal fashion.

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Speaker 2: If you want to gain legal access, then you apply

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Speaker 2: for it. You just don't go over the border and

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Speaker 2: then stay here legally. So, you know, the calculation for

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Speaker 2: the Catholic Church has to be that the legal order

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Speaker 2: reflects standards of justice that are not in conflict with

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Speaker 2: the Gospels and natural law. And the Church recognizes states

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Speaker 2: have a right to regulate the entry of non citizens,

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Speaker 2: non nationals into the country and out of the country.

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Speaker 1: And we do.

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Speaker 4: That's why we have passports.

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Speaker 2: You know, we want to verify who's coming in and

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Speaker 2: whether they're coming in here legally. And no one has

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Speaker 2: ever said issuing passports is a form of discrimination against

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Speaker 2: people who can't get them.

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Speaker 4: That's a silly argument.

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Speaker 2: But we're more or less making that same argument when

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Speaker 2: we say that people aren't here legally being discriminated against

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Speaker 2: because illegal entry is somehow according to higher justice.

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Speaker 4: No it isn't.

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Speaker 2: It's a violation of law, and it's irresponsible behavior because

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Speaker 2: it puts them at the risk of arrest and deportation,

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Speaker 2: and that involves in any children they had in this

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Speaker 2: country and if they got married here. So yeah, following

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Speaker 2: the law is part of Catholic teaching.

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Speaker 1: Some shocking news from the West Coast. A Vatican investigation

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Speaker 1: is reportedly underway involving a Chaldian bishop in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: Now there are accusations of embezzlements visits to local Braffel's.

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Speaker 1: Bishop Emmanuel Chatletta has submitted his resignation to the Vatican,

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Speaker 1: which the Vatican has not yet accepted. But according to

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Speaker 1: a report in the pillar Parish Finance Council, members at

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Speaker 1: Saint Peter's County and Cathedral in Alcohol in California noticed

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Speaker 1: irregular banking activities starting in November twenty twenty four that

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Speaker 1: seemed to indicate possible alleged embezzlement of the funds, as

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Speaker 1: well as an irregular relationship with a woman who worked

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Speaker 1: at the parish as parish secretary. Now, regarding the visits

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Speaker 1: to the local brothel, a report confirms a private detective

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Speaker 1: observed the bishop parking his car in a lot specific

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Speaker 1: to adult entertainment or this adult entertainment establishment. Chiletta was

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Speaker 1: appointed eparch of Saint Peter's in San Diego in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Father this investigation continues, But how long should the faithful

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Speaker 1: have to wait for accountability?

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Speaker 4: Here?

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Speaker 2: Well, I read the Pillars story. It's very well reported.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not just allegation. These are serious things.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he's resigned is an indication that he

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Speaker 2: understands that his position has been compromised by what's been discovered.

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Speaker 2: The story also says that the patriarch at the Chaldeans,

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Speaker 2: Cardinal Sacho, is defending the man, and one of the defenses,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately involved the assertion that while in handling of funds,

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't look at it the way they do in America.

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Speaker 2: We have a different approach in the homeland. That's no defense.

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Speaker 2: The irregularities, the use of cash and moving money around, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: very suspicious. So the Vaticans should accept this resignation unless

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Speaker 2: they have overwhelming evidence that this man is the victim

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Speaker 2: of misinformation. But the fact that he resigned should basically

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Speaker 2: end the story.

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Speaker 1: Bob, how does this kind of behavior occur for so

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Speaker 1: long without detection?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you this is the kind of story

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Speaker 3: that when you read it, the angels weep, because there

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Speaker 3: have been other cases, not even bishops, but just local

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Speaker 3: priests who are embezzling, and it almost always involves also

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Speaker 3: some sexual irregularity. Is there's something wrong in the soul

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Speaker 3: of the people that engage in this sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's true I think to say, maybe

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Speaker 3: Father will want to correct me about this, that we

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Speaker 3: don't quite apply the strictest financial standards to paris Is,

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Speaker 3: although I think we're a lot better because we've got

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Speaker 3: a lot more lay involvement in the last couple of decades,

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Speaker 3: precisely because of these problems. But the way that you know,

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Speaker 3: they had to hire a private detective and he was

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Speaker 3: going down to Tijuana to what I think was called

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Speaker 3: the Hong Kong Gentleman's Club something like it like that.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's so discouraging that after all the revelations

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Speaker 3: that we've had recently, that this sort of thing pops up.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a.

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Speaker 3: Good idea for the Vaticans just to get him out

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Speaker 3: of there, let the investigation go well, there are secular

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Speaker 3: authorities that are looking into this as well as church authorities,

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Speaker 3: and let that play out. But I don't think that

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Speaker 3: he ought to remain in place.

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Speaker 1: As we continue through lent the Lenten Spiritual exercises have

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Speaker 1: been delivered to the Pope and the curia. Those are

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Speaker 1: his coworkers at the Vatican, and they're being presented by

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Speaker 1: a Bishop Eric Varden, now he's a Trappist monk from Norway.

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Speaker 1: On the fourth day of the exercises, he offered this meditation.

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Speaker 1: I want to read it to you all. He says,

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Speaker 1: nothing has done the church more track jakarm and compromised

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Speaker 1: our witness more than corruption arisen within our own house.

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Speaker 1: The worst crisis of the Church has been brought on

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Speaker 1: not by secular opposition, but by ecclesiastical corruption. The wounds

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Speaker 1: inflicted will take time to heal. They call out for

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Speaker 1: justice and for tears. Bob your thoughts. I mean, in

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Speaker 1: the wake of Zancheta and Barros and Maceric and the

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Speaker 1: Rupnik scandal and Cardinal Bishu, this had to hit very

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Speaker 1: hard at the Vatican.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was glad that he was so explicit about this,

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Speaker 3: you know. And he's quoting from Saint Bernard of Clervo,

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Speaker 3: the great medieval spiritual advisor. It was an advisor to

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Speaker 3: political figures and whatnot. And he's you know, he's actually

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Speaker 3: also said in those reflections that it's not governing structures

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Speaker 3: that are going to make the church strong again. It

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Speaker 3: requires people who are holy people. And Leo has said

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Speaker 3: this as well. I mean, he's actually said to everybody

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Speaker 3: in the church that the best way to help the

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Speaker 3: church reform itself is to become holy. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's always the case of that sort of internal treason

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Speaker 3: that takes place, and we were just talking about this

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Speaker 3: case out in California. I mean, that thing really hurts more,

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Speaker 3: I suppose, you know, than an occasional goofiness in the

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Speaker 3: liturgy or whatever, because it really starts to go to

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Speaker 3: the heart of the trust that people have in institutions.

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Speaker 3: And we're so much in our society right now in

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Speaker 3: a condition we're all institutions, secular as well as religious institutions,

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Speaker 3: are really undergrade scrutiny. People don't trust what's going on

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Speaker 3: in them. They don't seem to be loyal to the

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Speaker 3: institutions the way they were even just a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: So for him to say this in front of the

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Speaker 3: closest collaborators and the Pope himself, I think that's a

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Speaker 3: strong warning, and it's taking them back to that great

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Speaker 3: medieval figure again, Saint Bernard of Clairwell, I think that

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Speaker 3: that's going to have a powerful impact.

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Speaker 1: Father, he calls it corruption, that out for justice and tears.

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Speaker 1: Now we have heard this kind of talk before, but

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Speaker 1: never before the Pope and to the members of the Couria.

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Speaker 1: Bishop Varden also offered that solution, as Bob just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: to choose to be collaborators with good people. Your take

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Speaker 1: on all of this and the justice we've seen in

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Speaker 1: recent days involving Rupnik and Vashu and these other characters

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Speaker 1: we've been reporting on for years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it brings me back, unfortunately the Watergate and

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Speaker 2: you know what was said about Richard Nixon and the plumbers,

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Speaker 2: the cover ups worse than the crime. I think what

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Speaker 2: most people, most people are going to understand that there

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Speaker 2: are priests who fall into diabolical temptation and do evil acts.

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Speaker 2: You know, the devil does target the priesthood because he

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Speaker 2: wants a discredit.

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Speaker 4: Christ and the Church.

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Speaker 2: But what really hits home and hurts is when the

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Speaker 2: hierarchy protects those who were malefactors and criminals.

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Speaker 4: And that's what we've seen.

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Speaker 2: You know, the case of Bishops Anketta is one of

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Speaker 2: the worst cases on the previous pontiff. This was a

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Speaker 2: personal friend of the Pope that he made bishop in Argentine.

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Speaker 2: As soon as he became pope, he promoted him to

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Speaker 2: a diocese, and then he went up to that diocese

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Speaker 2: and acted as a corruptor of youth. He went into

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Speaker 2: the seminary and he sexually abused the seminarians. When he

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Speaker 2: was accused of such and brought to the attention of

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Speaker 2: the Pope, he simply transferred him to Rome and gave

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Speaker 2: him a job in the Vatican. It took the civil

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Speaker 2: society in Argentina to bring charges. He was arrested and jailed.

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Speaker 2: He was convicted. Now Zenketta is still a bishop. He's retired,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, but he's in good standing. He's never

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Speaker 2: been thrown out of the priesthood.

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Speaker 4: This is unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine this in any serious organization, But that's

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Speaker 2: what we have. The Zanketty case is similar. This is

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Speaker 2: a famous Jesuit artist. He did mosaic work that he

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Speaker 2: was a rope nick. I'm sorry, thank you, Marco Ropya

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Speaker 2: exactly famous artists and corrupt man. He forced nuns into

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Speaker 2: sexual crimes. With the nuns the victims, I should say

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Speaker 2: of his crimes. He's still a priest in good standing.

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Speaker 2: He was incardinating in the diacese, meaning he was taken

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Speaker 2: refuge after the Jesuits threw him out. The bishop in

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Speaker 2: Slovenia took him in as one of his priests. Now

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Speaker 2: trials underway, etc. But this trial should have ended, you know,

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Speaker 2: within basically three days. There's enough evidence to convict the man.

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Speaker 2: So I just bring these cases up to our listeners

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Speaker 2: and viewers can get a background here. What is disgusting

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Speaker 2: are the crimes, but what's worse is how the crimes

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Speaker 2: are treated. So Bishop Varden did a favor because he's

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Speaker 2: reminding not only the Pope but all his collaborators. We

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Speaker 2: can't have this passive, pacific attitude that the people in

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Speaker 2: charge make mistakes and we're not going to talk about it. No,

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Speaker 2: the people in charge, who are bishops and priests committing crime,

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Speaker 2: they need to be removed. They need to be thrown

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Speaker 2: out for their own good and the good of the church.

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Speaker 2: And let's hope that that's what happens now.

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Speaker 1: Justice and tears, Justice and tears. In an evolving scandal,

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Speaker 1: Germany has a new head of its Bishop's Conference, Bishop

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Speaker 1: Heiner Wilmer. He's a sixty four year old. He was

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Speaker 1: elected president of the conference earlier this week. He succeeds

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Speaker 1: Gaeorg Botzing, who was the former head of the Bishop's Conference. Now,

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Speaker 1: this new bishop has been called the mediator between conservatives

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Speaker 1: and reformers, and he's committed to participation and dialogue. He's

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Speaker 1: a supporter, by the way, of the controversial sonatyl Path

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Speaker 1: reform initiative that we've talked about for so long. In

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Bishop Wilmer called for a quote fresh

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Speaker 1: perspective on sexuality within the church. He's an own supporter

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Speaker 1: of LGBT groups within the church and has called for

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Speaker 1: further dialogue on same sex blessings and transitions. Father, does

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Speaker 1: the identity of this new leader tell us anything about

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Speaker 1: the direction of the German Bishop's Conference or is this

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Speaker 1: just business as usual? Well?

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Speaker 4: I think it's business and usual.

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Speaker 2: But the idea that this guy is somehow a mediator

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Speaker 2: between you know, conservative and liberal is ridiculous.

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Speaker 4: This man is a radical.

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Speaker 2: This is basically, you know, a relatively young bishop who

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Speaker 2: makes a good appearance on the media but says all

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Speaker 2: the worst things that a bishop should never say. He

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Speaker 2: is basically promoting immorality in the destruction of Catholic theology

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Speaker 2: by his positions.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the German.

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Speaker 2: Bishops have voted now to approve a structure in which

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Speaker 2: lay people would have equal voice with the bishops in

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Speaker 2: determining how the Catholic Church operates in Germany. Now it

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Speaker 2: has to be approved by Rome before it becomes effective.

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Speaker 2: But Rome should just say, you know, document received put

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Speaker 2: in the shredder. This is not Catholicism. Yeah, yet this

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Speaker 2: is what Bishop Wilmer wants. It's what the majority of

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Speaker 2: his colleagues want, the radicalized laity who are involved in

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Speaker 2: that German lay association.

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Speaker 4: Now, this man is not a moderate. This is not

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Speaker 4: a bridge builder.

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Speaker 2: This is not someone standing between two opposite poles who's

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Speaker 2: going to reconcile. This is a how can you say it?

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Speaker 2: He's an agent of destruction who gives a good appearance.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's why he was elected.

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Speaker 1: Now, Bob Bishop Botsing, who you know, was the former

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Speaker 1: occupant of the presidency of the German Bishop's Conference, he

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Speaker 1: just said the church teaching on sexuality is quote largely

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Speaker 1: ineffective in its current form, and that ways of life lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: sexual orientations are simply given to people by their nature.

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Speaker 1: And the bishop says, quote by their creator end quote.

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Speaker 1: What's happening here? Is the German Church just going to

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Speaker 1: continue hemorrhaging faithful as has been happening for years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I fear that that's the case, Raymond. And look,

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Speaker 3: let's let's move the camera back a little bit from

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Speaker 3: that immediate contention that he just made. That you know

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Speaker 3: that God has made these people this way, we're basically

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Speaker 3: talking about people, a small percentage of people in society. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know, numbers are never the only thing that could

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Speaker 3: take into consideration in the church. But are we really

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Speaker 3: going to say that a small percentage of people, some

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Speaker 3: of whom may just be suffering from psychological disorders, others

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Speaker 3: could be physiologic I mean, we don't know, and we

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Speaker 3: don't need to really know, because the moral question is

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Speaker 3: not solved by just a pragmatic approach to some people

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Speaker 3: who happen to be out there. But this small percentage,

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Speaker 3: somehow is supposed to dictate. And it's not just about

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Speaker 3: this moral question, because once you change morals like this,

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Speaker 3: you call into question the whole way in which the

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Speaker 3: Church has managed its dogmatic definitions since the very beginning.

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Speaker 3: And you know, as one of my dear friends used

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Speaker 3: to joke, the Church is the only institution left is

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Speaker 3: defending the ethics of Moses. It's the Mosaic law that

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Speaker 3: began in our tradition, this opposition to the idea that

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Speaker 3: homosexualities is normal. It was tolerated in the ancient world

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Speaker 3: by cultures, but it wasn't celebrated the way that these

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Speaker 3: people want to do. And you know, I want to

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Speaker 3: just mention one other thing about Bishop Wilmo. He was

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Speaker 3: a candidate to become the head of what is now

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Speaker 3: the Dicastro for the Doctrine of the Faith, the position

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Speaker 3: the Cardinal Fernandez occupies. So he's got some deep support

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Speaker 3: somewhere in the Vatican. And at the time when it

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Speaker 3: was rumored that he was going to succeed, I think

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Speaker 3: it was Ldaria who had replaced Mueller. By that point,

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Speaker 3: it immediately became apparent because people started to look into

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Speaker 3: his background that he was quite radical on a variety

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Speaker 3: of things, and that possibility disappeared, and then Fernandez appeared

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Speaker 3: as a result. But both of these men are pretty anomalousts.

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Speaker 3: Let's say, as leaders of the doc Trinal Office in

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Speaker 3: the Vatican, and it'll be curious to see how Roman

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Speaker 3: is able to deal with him, because clearly he's got

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Speaker 3: some strong support there, but also some strong criticisms.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to move on. We've discussing this for weeks.

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Speaker 1: It's such a big story. The Society of Saint Pius

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Speaker 1: the Tenth is planning to ordain new bishops in July.

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Speaker 1: This is the same act that triggered excommunication in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight. Because they plan to do so without the

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Speaker 1: permission of the Pope or the Vatican, they're just flying

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Speaker 1: in the face of the authority here. Cardinals Robert Sarah

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Speaker 1: and Gerhard Mueller both warned the society this week that

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Speaker 1: they're risking formal sism this time around. Cardinal Sarah wrote,

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Speaker 1: it is Christ himself who wills that we remain in unity,

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Speaker 1: and that even when wounded by the scandals of evil pastors,

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Speaker 1: we do not abandon the church. Says Saint Augustine, the

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Speaker 1: best way to defend the faith, tradition, and the authentic

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Speaker 1: liturgy will always be to follow the obedient Christ. Christ

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Speaker 1: will never command us to break the unity of the Church.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with Bob, your reaction to this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very grateful to Cardinal Mueller and to Cardinal

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Speaker 3: Soith for coming out in advance about this, because but

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Speaker 3: these are some of the most reliable men among the

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Speaker 3: cardinals in the church these days, and they, of course

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Speaker 3: they do support the idea of the traditional Latin Mass.

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Speaker 3: They themselves have made some strong criticisms of the way

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Speaker 3: that Vatican two has been interpreted. But it just seems

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Speaker 3: like the SSPX has made some demands that they know

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Speaker 3: cannot be accepted and they will have to be refused

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Speaker 3: because what they're saying is that they want changes in

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Speaker 3: the documents of Vatican two, which is an impossibility before

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Speaker 3: they're going to ordain these bishops. And they're not willing

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Speaker 3: to accept what has been called a minimum theological position

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Speaker 3: that would reconcile both groups here. And I think the

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Speaker 3: minimum that is being asked in Rome is to say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: there are certain things that you don't like the interpretations

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Speaker 3: of certain passages, and I agree with them about some

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Speaker 3: of that criticism, but you can't hold out. You can't

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Speaker 3: be outside the church and reform the church. You have

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Speaker 3: to be inside. And this is something that Cardinal Mueller

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Speaker 3: is saying you should be inside the church.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me get to that. I want Father to

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Speaker 1: react to Cardinal Muller's statement. Here, he says, the only

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Speaker 1: solution possible in conscience before God for the society of

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Speaker 1: Saint Pius the Tenth with his bishop's priests and laity

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Speaker 1: is to recognize our Holy Father Pope Leo as the

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Speaker 1: legitimate Pope, not only in theory but also in practice,

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Speaker 1: and to submit to his teaching authority and primacy of

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction without conditions. Then a just solution can also be

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Speaker 1: found for their canonical status, for example, by granting their

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Speaker 1: pate ordinary jurisdiction over the society, who would be directly

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Speaker 1: subject to the Pope, perhaps without the mediation of the

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Speaker 1: authority of the courier, that's Cardinal Gerhard Muller. Father, if

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Speaker 1: they proceed, what actually happens canonically, and are we talking

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Speaker 1: automatic excommunication?

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Speaker 2: Yes, If there are two bishops now in society Saint

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Speaker 2: Pious attentive, either one of them or both participate in

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Speaker 2: the ceremony to consecrate ordain new bishops, then everyone who

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Speaker 2: all both bishops doing it and the ones receiving it

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Speaker 2: are automatically excommunicated, and it'll be excommunicated because there's a

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Speaker 2: canon that forbids you to do this under pain of excommunication.

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Speaker 2: And then secondly, the Vatican has already said that this

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Speaker 2: is going to be a sismatic act, and there's an

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Speaker 2: automatic excommunication for committing an act of sism and sism

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Speaker 2: means to reject the legitimate authority of the Pope and

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Speaker 2: the bishops and communion with him.

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Speaker 4: So that's what this is.

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Speaker 2: This can't be minimized as saying simply, well, it's a

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Speaker 2: divergence and a discussion that needs to go on, but

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Speaker 2: this is just a matter where we provide for spiritual

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Speaker 2: welfare of people, so we can have new priests ordain

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Speaker 2: in confirmation minutes.

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00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 4: No, this is a break with.

434
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: The pope, and that's I'm glad that what Cardinal Muller said,

435
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 2: not just a theoretical submission of the pope and actual

436
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: submission of the pope. So yeah, it's a very bad thing.

437
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 2: The society should should not do this. We have the

438
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: Fraternity of Saint Peter, which is an organization made up

439
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: of former members at the beginning, former members of the

440
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 2: Saint Pius. The ten society and they celebrate the Latin

441
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 2: Mass and do the other sacraments. They're priests are ordained

442
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: by diocese and bishops, so there's no state of emergency.

443
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: We could never get another priest ordain unless we do this.

444
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 2: That's not an accurate claim. And you know, quite frankly,

445
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: how can you say we're Catholic but we're exempt from

446
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 2: the Pope's authority.

447
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 4: You can't say that.

448
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, we'll see where this goes. But when

449
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: you hear Mueller and Cardinal Sarah issuing these kind of warnings,

450
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: it's dire. Meanwhile, Diana Montana is reporting that Bishop Athanasius

451
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: Schneider is calling for Pope Leo to build a bridge

452
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: between Rome and the SSPX to avoid system and he says, look,

453
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: Holy Father, grant apostolic the apostolic mandate for the episcopal

454
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: consecrations of the SSPX stand aside from the part artisanship

455
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: of others, and with great paternal and truly Augustinian spirit,

456
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: demonstrate that your builder of bridges, as he promised before

457
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: the whole world. Father, your reaction to this first, and

458
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: then I'll go to Bob.

459
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I disagree with the characterization of Bishop Schneider here

460
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: building bridges assumes that there's a chasm between the pope

461
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 2: and society pious Attent. Well, they tell us there is

462
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: no chasm. There's simply a disagreement. So the issue with well,

463
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: who gets to decide, the society or the pope, And

464
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: if they believe in the Catholic religion, then of course

465
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: the Pope decides. And I think this, unfortunately gets back

466
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 2: to the origin of all the problems. Archbishop Lefevra signed

467
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: an agreement and Pope Benedict at that time, Cardinal Ratzinger

468
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: was the one responsible for getting to that point through negotiation.

469
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: He signed an agreement in which Rome would grant a

470
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: bishop to the Society Pious Attent, but Rome would be

471
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: the one to decide who he was, not the society.

472
00:26:59,200 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 4: He signed it.

473
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 2: The next day Archier will have forever walked away from

474
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: it perform the illegal consecrations. And I think that same

475
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: spirit is operative here. They want to name their own

476
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: bishops for themselves. That is not how the Catholic Church work.

477
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: You can propose bishops, but you can't bind the pope.

478
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: It's up to him.

479
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: Bishops are the successors of the apostles, the chief apostle

480
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: is the one in this case, who's the one who's

481
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: going to determine which candidates make it to become ordained.

482
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: Bob, your reaction to all of that, and just to

483
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: look at this from the other perspective, And we hear

484
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: a lot from members of the Society of Saint Pius

485
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: the tenth. They would say, wait a minute, we're trying

486
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: to defend orthodoxy, and then they point to what's happened

487
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: in recent years about the traditional Latin Mass and Rome's

488
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: unwillingness to reconsider that ban put in place by Pope Francis.

489
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Is that an exacerbating factor here that we don't hear

490
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: enough about.

491
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, of course it is. I mean a lot

492
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: of things that are going on in the church right now.

493
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: Cardinal Bramuler, who's ninety seven years old these days, this

494
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: very week, just said, look that we should have a

495
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: truce about these liturgy wars because the liturgy that came

496
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 3: out of Vatican two obviously disturbed a lot of people.

497
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: It's clear that in some ways we must find a

498
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: way to accommodate people who want to worship with the

499
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: old traditional Latin Mass. And this heightening of tensions between

500
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 3: groups over and over again, does nobody any good? Frankly,

501
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 3: and I think Leo is not going to be able

502
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: to walk away from this. Popolo is going to have

503
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: to find some way to deal with Now. I want

504
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: to just raise a question about obedience, because obedience always

505
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: is going to mean at times having to agree to

506
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: do something that you don't want to do, because if

507
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: it's not something that you don't want to do, it's

508
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: just agreement. You just do the same thing that a

509
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: person says to you. So one of the principles of

510
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: Catholicism is that there must be a willing obedience to

511
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: the proper authority the Church. And I don't see how

512
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: you can get around this when and I'm worried that

513
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: in some ways, in fact, that the spillover from what's

514
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: happening from ssp X. I've talked about this before, is

515
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: going to harm those legitimate groups within the church. I

516
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: want to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass that want to

517
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: open up some discussion again about the documents of Vatican Two.

518
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: Pope Leo is doing in his normal Wednesday general audiences.

519
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: He's doing a rereading of those documents of Vatican two,

520
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: and at some point He's going to get around to

521
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: the document about liturgy, which is a key document. And

522
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: when we do that, if we actually start looking at

523
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: the words of Vatican Two and begin to look at

524
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: them somewhat critically and to try to absorb what's good

525
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: and to correct what has not turned out to be

526
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 3: so good, I think we could be in a very

527
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: different place. But we can't have these fire alarms, you know,

528
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 3: every couple of months within the church just make it appear,

529
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: you know, look like we're in a crisis.

530
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: Comes and you're right to mention that this may injure

531
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: other groups, you know, that are more traditionally minded and

532
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: traditionally practiced. But there is this lingering tension, There is

533
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: this cloud cast by Traditiononis custodis that legislation that Pope

534
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: France has put into place. I just read a story

535
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: this week. I haven't looked deeply into it, so I'm

536
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: just putting it out there. There is a report that

537
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: an archbishop in Brazil is issuing a declaration of excommunication

538
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: for any Catholic that attends a mass outside of the

539
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: one place he's designated that can celebrate the traditional Atin mass.

540
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this is draconian, and you see why sensitivities

541
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: are inflamed and people feel their very faith and practice

542
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: of faith is under attack. But the Pope somehow has

543
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: to deal with this and find a way to bring

544
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: peace to the land Again. Pope Benedict did it. I

545
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: think Leo can too, Father and Bob Pop. Leo sent

546
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: a message to the Los Angeles Religious Education Congress this week,

547
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: a notorious meeting that's been going on for decades, calling

548
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: for true renewal. He wrote this, by deepening your relationship

549
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: with Jesus, who is the Truth, and continuing to be

550
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: faithful and loyal disciples in your daily lives, your authenticity

551
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: as educators and catechetical leaders will enable you to transmit

552
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: the Gospel in such a way that it leads to

553
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: a true encounter with the Lord and contributes to building

554
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: up a lasting and life giving culture. Now, this same

555
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: LA Congress featured Father James Martin presenting a talk titled

556
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: Hope on the Horizon LGBT Catholic Update end quote. Father,

557
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: what does true spiritual renewal mean to Leo? And is

558
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: there a message here?

559
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: Well, of course I agree with what the Pope says

560
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: about the nature of renewal in the life of the church. Now,

561
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: whether he's aware that Father Martin was speaking at that

562
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: congress or not, I can't say. But the one who

563
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: is aware is Archbishop Gomez and the people you know

564
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: that he's delegated to run that congress because that's run

565
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: by the la Archdiocese. So the guests there enjoy at

566
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: least the tacit approval of Archbishop Gomez. And I'm very

567
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: disappointed that the archbishop would allow Father James Martin to

568
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: propagate what he says at that congress because he contradicts

569
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: Catholic teaching. He has written in his book Building a

570
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: Bridge that the Katic is a Catholic Church when it

571
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: speaks about the inherent disordered nature of same sex attraction,

572
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: that this is a cruel. He said, it's cruel, and

573
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 2: he said it should be changed. We shouldn't speak about disordered,

574
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: we should say differently ordered. So Father James Martin rejects

575
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: the Catholic teaching about the nature of man and woman

576
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: because he thinks that people who are attracted to commit

577
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: sex acts with someone in the same sex is simply different,

578
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: not disordered. The Church doesn't teach that at all. Now,

579
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 2: Father Martin is notorious for blessing a same sex couple

580
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: the day after or a few days after the Pope

581
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: Francis authorize that kind of thing. We know what he

582
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: wants to do. He wants to promote the homosexual lifestyle

583
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: in the church. He speaks about it constantly. So why

584
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: is he addressing a congress of people are trying to

585
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: promote the catechism in the Bible. Makes no sense. And

586
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: all I can say is if Leo wants to have

587
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: real renewal according to the Gospel, then we have to

588
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: confront this problem of the normalization of homosexuality in Catholic

589
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: circles such as Father Martin and his followers.

590
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: Bob, I have to switch gears. A big story we've

591
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: been covering. There was a huge turnaround at Notre Dame

592
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: this week. Susan Osterman, who is an Indie professor. She

593
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: was appointed to run Notre Dame's Asia Institute. Well this

594
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: week she decided, after a lot of public blowback because

595
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: of her abortion support over many years an advocacy, that

596
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: she is going to withdraw or step back from that position.

597
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: Talk to me for a moment about what do you

598
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: think actually happened here. I mean I read where sources

599
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: near the president of Notre Dame, Father Robert Dowd, said

600
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: he was caught completely by surprise, by disappointment. What do

601
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: you think happened?

602
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's possible because of the way that

603
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: universities are structured. I want to point out one thing

604
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: she didn't say. She withdrew all right, she said, and

605
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: the relevant dean said that she has decided not to

606
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: go forward with this.

607
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: Now.

608
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure that this was language that was worked out

609
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: because as we know, Notre Dame wants to play with

610
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: the big boys. You know, they want to look to

611
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 3: beat the best Catholic university they can be, but also

612
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 3: to be a competitor with secular universities the IVY, Stanford

613
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 3: and whatnot. And so there's always this tug of war

614
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: within Catholic universities, and in most places Catholicism loses out

615
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: frankly between the this so called excellence that is going

616
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 3: to be proposed and the Catholic mission. So in this case,

617
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 3: I think that what happened is because it became so

618
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 3: notorious and actually a previous president of Notre Dame, Father Jenkins,

619
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: had criticized what Susan Oustroman had said in an op

620
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 3: ed about abortion being a human right it's a part

621
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: of the guarantee of of human dignity, that it is

622
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: a tool of white supremacy. I mean, this crazy, crazy stuff.

623
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 3: So people at Notre Dame knew about how radical she

624
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: actually was. Wasn't just a kind of a passive supporter

625
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 3: of abortion, she was an activist.

626
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: Well, Jenkins wrote that back in twenty twenty two. I mean,

627
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: she's still a Notre Dame professor. We should say this

628
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: was an elevation where she was going to lead this

629
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: Asia Institute. Now, Father, we have to say, Father Bill,

630
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: miss Campbell, who's been on this show and we've covered

631
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: over the last few weeks, who's a history emeritus professor

632
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame. And the student body and the donors,

633
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: and the ten bishops that came out against it, including

634
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: the Bishop of South Bend. That pressure, I think did

635
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: more than anything else to change this situation. Why didn't

636
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: the university board act to withdraw the nomination? Or did they?

637
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: And this is the gentlest way for miss Osterman to

638
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: save face and simply retreat into her regular professorship.

639
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the board has made no announcement that they

640
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: requested or support this, so we can assume that they

641
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: were not opposed to it because it happened and then

642
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: it made no common subsequent to it. Why did this happen?

643
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: You know, Bob's point is profound. The attempt to fit

644
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: in with the higher educational hierarchy of relevance and importance

645
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 2: is to imitate Ivy League schools and then MIT and

646
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: Stanford in places like this, and those are thoroughly secular places.

647
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: So what we do is we have this tiptoe right

648
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: now to the edge. Oh, we're very Catholic. Kids pray,

649
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: we have chaplains, we go to Mass. That's all great,

650
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: by the way, I'm not criticizing that. But on the

651
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: other hand, some of the things abortion is a human right,

652
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: can represent the university and direct the course of studies

653
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: and teaching in regards to a very important part of

654
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: the world where abortion is a huge problem, which is Gasia.

655
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: And we had, you know, the one child policy. We

656
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: have sex selecting abortions where girls are aborted in India

657
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: and other places because parents want boys. You know, this

658
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: is the kind of person the ideology that we want. No,

659
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: of course not so it really is a soul searching moment.

660
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: Catholicism is being dissolved not only by exterior forces but

661
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: by interior people who say, yeah, we can go along

662
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: with that. No we can't, we can't do that. Is

663
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: Jesus truly the king of the universe? Or is he

664
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: simply somebody on the sidelines that we call when we

665
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: need him.

666
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: That's why it's curious to me, And I'm amazed, frankly

667
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: by the unity of the student body, you know, the

668
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: pro life group on Notre Dame's campus. They have been

669
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: determined and so outspoken and so clear throughout this thing.

670
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: If anybody moved this, it was the student body where

671
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: faith apparently still lives loud as a certain senator might

672
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: have said, I'm going to move on here. In a

673
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: Q and A with session with clergy in Rome, the

674
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: Pope told priests don't use AI to write your homilies

675
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: and stop chasing likes on TikTok Father. Should we be

676
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: grateful that he said it or shocked that he needs

677
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: to say these things? I mean, when a priest outsource

678
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: says homily to AI, has he lost the congregation?

679
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there are a lot of homily services

680
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: out there which give post sermons and priests can read them,

681
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 2: and then you know, some priests is not their native language,

682
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: so they need some assistance. The problem with AI, of course,

683
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: is that this is a you know, an agglomeration system

684
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: which can take crazy ideas, mix them together and form

685
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: some kind of cohesive you know paragraph.

686
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 4: That's not what we need, I think the Pope's message though.

687
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: Obviously prepare your own sermons and make sure that you

688
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: know they're based on serious individual thought. Yeah, it's you know,

689
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: I find AI useful because I need instant and sometimes

690
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, I'm a Canon lawyer. I can't remember what

691
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 2: Canon said this. If I ask AI, it's it's there

692
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 2: in a couple of seconds. That's not a problem. The

693
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 2: problem is when you when you get to say, well,

694
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 2: you know, artificial intelligence is now going to replace people

695
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: who aren't that bright, and then they can produce perfect sermons. No,

696
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: the greatest value of a sermon is not only what's said,

697
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: but the witness of the priests, how he says it

698
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: and how he lives.

699
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: It well in the field for the people and your

700
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 1: pus and and your parishing their needs. I mean, that's that.

701
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why you need the human representative

702
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: as of Christ in the room with you, not only

703
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: to confer the sacraments, but to lead the sheep. I

704
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: mean it's important. I want to go to the Bizarro

705
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: files this week for a moment. In Germany, Bob, a

706
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: sculpture of a dead humpback whale, was displayed in a

707
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: German cathedral at Zanten. The display is set to remain

708
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: where it is in the middle of the cathedral until

709
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: March twenty second. It appeared on February twenty second with

710
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: a mass. Auxiliary. Bishop wolf Loehmann delivered this observation during

711
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: this homily. Quote, this whale reminds me of the vulnerability

712
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: of creation. It's an endangered species caused by wrong human actions,

713
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: caused by climate change and the warming and pollution of

714
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 1: the oceans. The bad thing is that we have representatives

715
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: up to the highest powers of the state who deny

716
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: all of this, even though it has been scientifically proven.

717
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: Bob does not have a natural history museum.

718
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: I'm tended to say, this isn't the worst thing that

719
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: happened in you.

720
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: Oh it's not, and it's not the worst thing. This

721
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: week I'm getting to that.

722
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 4: At least it was.

723
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't blasphemous at least, it was a creature that

724
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: God has actually created. But you know, you look at

725
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: this and you say to yourself, to these people even

726
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: just lack basic human decency and balance, because what is

727
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 3: that blob of stuff doing in a church? If you

728
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 3: want to make that case, you can make that case,

729
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 3: and you could maybe have demonstrations of ways that you

730
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: can help the environment, or pictures up somewhere. But to

731
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: lay in the midst of people this this ugly looking

732
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: thing when you were hopefully I mean we're trying already

733
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: in churches to have a more cohesive aesthetic experience in

734
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: the way we worship and what's surrounding us in the artwork,

735
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: and to just lay this thing out there, which I

736
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: really think is an obstacle to people. If I were

737
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 3: a member of that parish, I could win there and

738
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 3: I would say, what in the world is this? Yeah,

739
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: I might even be in favor of defending the environment,

740
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 3: but really, you're gonna lay down as a blob in

741
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 3: the middle of my church.

742
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: No, Father, does this seem appropriate to you? I mean,

743
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: Pope France has always talked about the church should not

744
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 1: be a museum. Well, it sure looks like one there.

745
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

746
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: And the Pope also said, Pope France, that we went

747
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: a poor church for the poor. I won't know how

748
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: much money it costs to either buy or rent this sculpture,

749
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: to transport it in, to transport it out. Now, this

750
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: is self indulgent decadence of a rich church which has

751
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: lots of money because of the church tax, but no people.

752
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: You know what, I think it would be much better

753
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: if that parish bought a statue of Padre Pio and

754
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: Saint Teresa Calcutta and put it on the wall with

755
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: a rack of candles so that people could come in

756
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 2: and pray and learn from the example of the saints. Now,

757
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: this is unfortunately. You know, this is what a big

758
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: problem when you lose an interest in Christianity as a

759
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: religion and turned it into a social phenomen then you

760
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: use with basically a street theater to promote your ideological

761
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: cause of the day, so that today's the whales. You know,

762
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: what's it going to be next week? This is ridiculous.

763
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: I'd say the only benefit if I was a mother

764
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: and had little kids, I'd say we're going to go

765
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: to church. Today's so you can play on the whale,

766
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 2: you know, jump on top of it and move around,

767
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: because you know that's the only place you're gonna be

768
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: able to do that.

769
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm no, it's not a playground. The church is not

770
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: your playground. And it's not the natural history museum. You

771
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: got big home like Wales hanging off every natural history

772
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: museum in the world. Give me a break, okay, Bob?

773
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: And then Father. In Brussels, you were asking, Father, you

774
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: know what's next week? Let me tell you what happened

775
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: this week. The Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in

776
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: Brussels hosted a Ramadon if Tard dinner five hundred Muslims,

777
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: eight in the cathedral itself. This is part of Mullenbeak

778
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: Brussels effort to get itself proclaim the European capital of culture.

779
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: What's the message being conveyed here? Bob? And then Father,

780
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, Raymond.

781
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 3: I mean, frankly, can they get five hundred Catholics into

782
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: a church these days in Brussels. I was in Brussels

783
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: last year for a conference which actually was shut down

784
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: because there was a there was a protest that was

785
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 3: anti Muslim and there's a Muslim mayor and they couldn't

786
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: even find a venue that to keep changing the venues. Look,

787
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 3: there is already so strong a presence, I'm so strong

788
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: a Muslim presence in many European countries, but particularly in Brussels,

789
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: because Brussels is the one of the centers of the

790
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 3: European Union. That to do this is almost an abdication.

791
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to have to use such a strong word,

792
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 3: but I really kind of think of it not as

793
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 3: a welcoming, but almost an abdication and maybe almost a

794
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 3: submission to this growing Muslim presence in Europe.

795
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: Father, your take on this? How do you see this?

796
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: I mean they say it's unity, we're coming together in unity.

797
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: Unity, and what unity in Christian religion? No, because that's

798
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: a Muslim. They don't believe in Christianity. The Catholic Church

799
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: is the house of God. This is a surrender. You're

800
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: giving over the House of God to become essentially a

801
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: restaurant for people who don't believe in Jesus Christ. Now,

802
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: I respect people don't believe in Jesus Christ, and I

803
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: treat them with the love that God wants us to.

804
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: But then I don't turn around and say, oh, by

805
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: the way, our churches are no longer houses of worship.

806
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: They're restaurants and you can come in and set up

807
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: your dinner. Look, this is sort of a self suicide

808
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: moment where you say, we're no longer going to use

809
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 2: the buildings we've inherited from our ancestors to worship God.

810
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: We're going to turn them into welcome centers for the

811
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: new arrival, so that you know that we can somehow

812
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: get good relations going with them. Well, you know, if

813
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 2: I was a very serious Muslim, I would say, why

814
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 2: would I want.

815
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 4: To go to their house of worship?

816
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: Do the Catholics want to go to a mosque and

817
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: set up, you know, a buffet, you know, for a

818
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: Easter Easter dinner?

819
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: Of course not.

820
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: We don't do that. They shouldn't do. This is a

821
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: disaster here we are. Let's put the bigger respective here, Raymond.

822
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: What are we arguing about with the European Church? They're

823
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: trying to imitate the secular world and says we deliver

824
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 2: what you do.

825
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 4: Only we do it with a smile.

826
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: No, we're not here to promote social harmony by turning

827
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: religion into an object of disdain.

828
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 4: This is ridiculous. We shouldn't do this.

829
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for the Catholics who try to go

830
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: to that church to pray and find it's been turned

831
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: into a restaurant.

832
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. I spoke to somebody in

833
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: Brussels this week and they said, this is almost like

834
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: a rent to own situation. You know, they've allowed these

835
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: people in, but they're kind of trying out the you know,

836
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: the surrounds and seeing how it feels. Okay. Before we

837
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: wrap this week, I always want to make sure we

838
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: end with a ray of light, and not only mine.

839
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 4: Uh.

840
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: The Archdiocese of Sydney, Australia is receiving a record number

841
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: of converts in the church this Easter. Archbishop Anthony Fisher

842
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: announced nearly four hundred and sixty converts will be welcomed

843
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: in this year. He said, your presence is a profound

844
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: sign of a wonderful vitality of our local church and

845
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: proof that the Holy Spirit is alive and active in

846
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: our city. For the last six years in a row,

847
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: year by year, more and more of you have been

848
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: saying accept at the right of election Here in Sydney.

849
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: Newcomers to the church know they not only have to

850
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: learn the Christian faith. They must sometimes go against the grain.

851
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: It's costly, but its reward is eternal life. Bob. This

852
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: is a global trend. I mean, even in all the

853
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: face of the stories of decline and scandal and confusion

854
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 1: that we've discussed here, what's happening here?

855
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: Well, Raymond, I think we can put it simplistically because

856
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: there are a lot of elements in this, but I

857
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 3: think the central element is people feel that they're in

858
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: outer space. There's nothing solid around them. They're in a

859
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: vacuum of value of life prospects. And when that happens,

860
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 3: what do you do? I mean, you don't commit suicide.

861
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 3: What you do is you look around for something substantial

862
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: to hold on to. And for all the problems that

863
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 3: we talk about that exist in the Church and in

864
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: Christianity in general in the world these days, if there

865
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: is one institution that still has some life in it

866
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 3: that goes against all the negativity that exists in modern

867
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: developed societies, it's the Roman Catholic Church. People are also

868
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 3: joining the Orthodox and both of these churches demand something

869
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: from it. People are waiting to be called to do

870
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: something significant. It could be difficult, but sometimes you do

871
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 3: something because it's hard, because to achieve something it leads

872
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 3: to a personal satisfaction. And I think that we can

873
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: try to explain it in secular terms, but I think

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00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: the archbis Archbisial of Fisher is exactly right. The Holy

875
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 3: Spirit is calling to people and a lot more are

876
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 3: responding to with them.

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00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, would have been anticipating. Yeah, like those kids at

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00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: Notre dameon Like this next story, Father, to priests in

879
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: Mexico in the middle of that drug cartel violence. We

880
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: saw they climbed onto the roof and they performed a

881
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: eucharistic blessing over their community. Here's the video. Take a

882
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: look at this now, Father, when you see something like that,

883
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: two priests putting themselves, I guess in physical harm to

884
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: go up there, you know, they're burning cars, they're shooting

885
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: people down, you know, on the streets, to bring Christ

886
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: to the people in that moment. What does it say

887
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: about the priesthood and what does it say about the

888
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: nature of faith in crisis, in deadly situations.

889
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: Well, this reminded me Raymond of when Pope Francis, in

890
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: the midst of the COVID crisis, went out and blessed

891
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: Rome with the blessed sacrament, and he got on the

892
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: steps of Saint Peter's and blessed the empty square, and

893
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: then he walked through the city. Likewise, these priests is

894
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: the moral plague of the drug dealers and the cartels

895
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 2: and the violence, and they're saying the only solution is Jesus.

896
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: And you know, quite frankly, God bless them and of

897
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: course the only solusion to Jesus Christ. And that's what

898
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: people are finding out.

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00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: You know.

900
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: The Melbourne story or the Sydney story rather reminds me

901
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: of Cardinal pell Feel well beloved by yourself and Bob

902
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: and myself. You know, he and Bishop Fisher have left

903
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: a good legacy in that area of priests and lay

904
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: people who are dynamic and believe in the faith. They're

905
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: not interested in having restaurants and churches. They want to

906
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: have baptisms and churches. So this is what we get.

907
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: Good leadership inspired. Let's the grace of the Holy Spirit

908
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 2: become manifest, you know, and not hidden by all these distractions.

909
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: And it's a powerful witness that the world needs. Now.

910
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 1: I love to see that. I think it is beautiful, gentlemen.

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00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: Grateful to you all as always and look. If you

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00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: want more of the Arroyo Grande prayerful posse, subscribe to

913
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or go to Royal

914
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: Grande the Podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of

915
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray Until the rides again, Stay

916
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: the course, follow the light. I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see

917
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Speaker 1: you week after next. Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership

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00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: with Deepe Studios and iHeart Podcasts, and is available on

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00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts