1
00:00:12,838 --> 00:00:16,038
Speaker 1: Hey, Aaron, welcome back. You've found again the Book of

2
00:00:16,118 --> 00:00:21,478
Speaker 1: Joe with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe.

3
00:00:21,518 --> 00:00:23,718
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure there are as many ways to

4
00:00:23,798 --> 00:00:26,998
Speaker 1: win a World Series, but I always feel like after

5
00:00:27,038 --> 00:00:30,078
Speaker 1: each World Series, maybe there's something that we can learn

6
00:00:30,238 --> 00:00:33,758
Speaker 1: going forward. Maybe it doesn't predict the future. After the

7
00:00:33,798 --> 00:00:36,918
Speaker 1: game's been played and after we do so much pregame

8
00:00:37,038 --> 00:00:40,798
Speaker 1: pre series analysis, what have we learned? So I wanted

9
00:00:40,838 --> 00:00:42,998
Speaker 1: to talk about the twenty twenty four World Series, and

10
00:00:43,038 --> 00:00:44,878
Speaker 1: here's one thing that really stood out for me. Joe,

11
00:00:44,918 --> 00:00:47,758
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on this. The Dodgers

12
00:00:47,758 --> 00:00:53,238
Speaker 1: through the Yankees forty one percent breaking pitches, forty one

13
00:00:53,398 --> 00:00:56,278
Speaker 1: percent spin. Now we've got data that goes back to

14
00:00:56,318 --> 00:00:59,678
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, so we're talking about thirty four

15
00:00:59,878 --> 00:01:04,958
Speaker 1: pitching staffs in the World Series. Nobody has spun the

16
00:01:04,998 --> 00:01:08,758
Speaker 1: ball more than the Dodgers did against the Yankees, and

17
00:01:08,998 --> 00:01:13,318
Speaker 1: obviously it worked. And you think about what the Yankees

18
00:01:13,358 --> 00:01:15,438
Speaker 1: did in the course of the season. Offensively, they were

19
00:01:15,478 --> 00:01:19,438
Speaker 1: great at nut chasing. They would get count leverage, forced

20
00:01:19,478 --> 00:01:21,678
Speaker 1: pitchers to come into the zone with fastballs, and they

21
00:01:21,798 --> 00:01:25,558
Speaker 1: absolutely hammer them. Well, that didn't work against the Dodgers

22
00:01:25,678 --> 00:01:28,118
Speaker 1: because they kept them off balanced so much, with so

23
00:01:28,238 --> 00:01:31,798
Speaker 1: much spin that when the Dodgers did throw a fastball

24
00:01:31,838 --> 00:01:34,398
Speaker 1: in the zone, and they rarely did, but when they did,

25
00:01:35,038 --> 00:01:38,838
Speaker 1: the Yankees hit two eleven in the World Series. Now,

26
00:01:38,838 --> 00:01:40,918
Speaker 1: they were the best team in baseball at crushed the

27
00:01:40,918 --> 00:01:43,958
Speaker 1: fastballs in the zone in the regular season. So, Joe,

28
00:01:44,078 --> 00:01:47,158
Speaker 1: my question for you is is this a blueprint going

29
00:01:47,198 --> 00:01:49,998
Speaker 1: forward when we get to postseason baseball. Now, we've seen

30
00:01:50,078 --> 00:01:53,278
Speaker 1: spin increase around the game, but we have not seen

31
00:01:53,318 --> 00:01:56,558
Speaker 1: a World Series decided with so much spin the way

32
00:01:56,598 --> 00:01:58,438
Speaker 1: that the Dodgers did it. Is it a matter of

33
00:01:58,638 --> 00:02:01,038
Speaker 1: you need the staff to do it or is this

34
00:02:01,078 --> 00:02:02,758
Speaker 1: a blueprint going forward?

35
00:02:02,998 --> 00:02:04,798
Speaker 2: Well, did we talk about that with the Red Sox

36
00:02:04,838 --> 00:02:06,438
Speaker 2: earlier this season? Did you bring that up in one

37
00:02:06,478 --> 00:02:07,398
Speaker 2: of our conversations?

38
00:02:07,398 --> 00:02:09,518
Speaker 3: How much how many breaking balls they were throwing.

39
00:02:10,598 --> 00:02:12,398
Speaker 2: I think part of it is, well, when it got

40
00:02:12,398 --> 00:02:14,718
Speaker 2: to this particular junction, Like you said, the part that

41
00:02:14,798 --> 00:02:17,598
Speaker 2: surprises me into the Yankees detriment was the fact that

42
00:02:18,038 --> 00:02:19,518
Speaker 2: they don't chase. But then all of a sudden they

43
00:02:19,518 --> 00:02:21,838
Speaker 2: began to chase. So what happened first? Did they begin

44
00:02:21,918 --> 00:02:23,598
Speaker 2: to chase? Throw more breaking balls. We're going to throw

45
00:02:23,598 --> 00:02:25,838
Speaker 2: more breaking balls because we believe they're going to start chasing.

46
00:02:27,198 --> 00:02:29,558
Speaker 2: That's the part to me that's kind of interesting. And

47
00:02:29,598 --> 00:02:33,758
Speaker 2: again going back in time twenty sixteen, the playoffs of

48
00:02:33,798 --> 00:02:35,678
Speaker 2: the Cubs, again, I think you pointed this out to me,

49
00:02:35,998 --> 00:02:38,518
Speaker 2: how the or maybe it was even that, how the

50
00:02:38,558 --> 00:02:41,918
Speaker 2: opposition jumped their amount of breaking balls thrown to us

51
00:02:42,238 --> 00:02:43,518
Speaker 2: in the postseason that year.

52
00:02:43,678 --> 00:02:45,118
Speaker 3: Also, I don't have a.

53
00:02:45,038 --> 00:02:48,558
Speaker 2: Real solid answer other than do you get more assertive aggressive,

54
00:02:49,238 --> 00:02:50,878
Speaker 2: do you a little jump y, do you try too hard?

55
00:02:50,998 --> 00:02:53,398
Speaker 2: I don't know, But it really came down to that

56
00:02:53,438 --> 00:02:57,278
Speaker 2: one factor, not chase. I mean, that's that's what it is.

57
00:02:57,318 --> 00:03:02,278
Speaker 2: It comes down to hiring guys, accumulating acquiring guys that

58
00:03:02,518 --> 00:03:05,958
Speaker 2: make you throw the over the plate if you're talking

59
00:03:05,958 --> 00:03:09,518
Speaker 2: about mechanics and trying to lift the ball, getting off

60
00:03:09,558 --> 00:03:11,758
Speaker 2: your backside a little bit more again, putting the ball

61
00:03:11,798 --> 00:03:14,038
Speaker 2: in the air, no ground balls. But then it really

62
00:03:14,078 --> 00:03:18,198
Speaker 2: comes down to more than anything, don't chase. All these

63
00:03:18,238 --> 00:03:21,358
Speaker 2: other things are wonderful concepts conceptually, but until you know

64
00:03:21,998 --> 00:03:24,998
Speaker 2: to get a ball on a strike zone, and that's

65
00:03:24,998 --> 00:03:28,238
Speaker 2: when I let it go. This other stuff really can work.

66
00:03:28,278 --> 00:03:30,038
Speaker 2: For brief periods of time, but I think when he

67
00:03:30,038 --> 00:03:33,358
Speaker 2: gets hot, it can go away. So more than anything

68
00:03:33,918 --> 00:03:35,878
Speaker 2: from an analytical perspective, and this is where I think

69
00:03:35,878 --> 00:03:40,438
Speaker 2: it's really good. Find me players that do not chase

70
00:03:40,878 --> 00:03:42,678
Speaker 2: fast balls out of his own Like you look at

71
00:03:42,718 --> 00:03:43,518
Speaker 2: Soto right now.

72
00:03:43,998 --> 00:03:45,398
Speaker 3: He is the poster child.

73
00:03:45,518 --> 00:03:48,678
Speaker 2: He is gonna get a tawny money and a big

74
00:03:48,718 --> 00:03:50,998
Speaker 2: part of the reason why is because he doesn't chase.

75
00:03:51,038 --> 00:03:52,998
Speaker 2: He makes you come into the strike zone and when

76
00:03:53,038 --> 00:03:54,318
Speaker 2: you do, you get hurt for it.

77
00:03:55,038 --> 00:03:55,638
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what.

78
00:03:55,638 --> 00:03:58,558
Speaker 2: Judge had been doing, and then here came the postseason

79
00:03:58,678 --> 00:04:01,398
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, he doesn't do that shape

80
00:04:01,398 --> 00:04:04,278
Speaker 2: of the pitches. I don't know, it's something that the

81
00:04:04,358 --> 00:04:08,678
Speaker 2: Dodgers saw within their scouting that maybe listen, I know

82
00:04:08,718 --> 00:04:11,438
Speaker 2: they don't chase, but I promise you, if we continue

83
00:04:11,438 --> 00:04:13,718
Speaker 2: to long this pattern, they will They're going to lose

84
00:04:13,758 --> 00:04:16,198
Speaker 2: their patience, how they're going to expand their strike stones.

85
00:04:16,198 --> 00:04:19,038
Speaker 2: It's had to be part of the conversation. Not a

86
00:04:19,038 --> 00:04:21,918
Speaker 2: great answer for me, but I'm just saying I think

87
00:04:21,918 --> 00:04:26,518
Speaker 2: that's something that's happened. More chase, less fastball, and you

88
00:04:26,558 --> 00:04:29,478
Speaker 2: would think, right, guys are throwing ninety five plus miles

89
00:04:29,518 --> 00:04:32,118
Speaker 2: and hour. You would think, although maybe the Yankee staff

90
00:04:32,158 --> 00:04:35,118
Speaker 2: does not, and even to a certain extent the Dodger

91
00:04:35,118 --> 00:04:37,398
Speaker 2: staff outside of their bullpen, he would think, you'd be

92
00:04:37,398 --> 00:04:39,238
Speaker 2: proud of your fastball. I want to throw my fastball.

93
00:04:39,238 --> 00:04:43,078
Speaker 2: It's that hard. It's hard to square it up. So overall, man,

94
00:04:43,438 --> 00:04:45,078
Speaker 2: I guess my response is that really don't have a

95
00:04:45,118 --> 00:04:45,598
Speaker 2: good answer.

96
00:04:46,638 --> 00:04:49,278
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you're onto something. Though. Swinging decisions,

97
00:04:49,318 --> 00:04:52,038
Speaker 1: to me is really where the game is decided. It's

98
00:04:52,078 --> 00:04:54,918
Speaker 1: not velocity. These guys are in the high velocity cage

99
00:04:55,078 --> 00:04:58,718
Speaker 1: machine hitting off high velocity. They have time velocity. They

100
00:04:58,718 --> 00:05:01,918
Speaker 1: can time a jet engine. I mean, fastballs get hit.

101
00:05:02,078 --> 00:05:04,278
Speaker 1: You know, an average breaking ball is hard to hit

102
00:05:04,358 --> 00:05:06,958
Speaker 1: than an elite fastball. It's just the facts of the game.

103
00:05:07,278 --> 00:05:09,278
Speaker 1: And when you get to the postseason, everybody wants to

104
00:05:09,318 --> 00:05:12,398
Speaker 1: wing it missed even more. But give the Dodgers credit

105
00:05:12,598 --> 00:05:13,998
Speaker 1: in a couple of things. And by the way, we're

106
00:05:14,038 --> 00:05:17,598
Speaker 1: going to talk about Want Soto and Pete Alonso free agents,

107
00:05:17,758 --> 00:05:19,998
Speaker 1: sluggers in New York and the markets that are ahead

108
00:05:19,998 --> 00:05:22,878
Speaker 1: of them. Well, let's wrap up here on the Dodgers

109
00:05:22,918 --> 00:05:25,438
Speaker 1: and again to breaking pitches. First of all, give them

110
00:05:25,478 --> 00:05:28,598
Speaker 1: credit because in the past, Joe, they've they've really scripted

111
00:05:28,638 --> 00:05:31,318
Speaker 1: games to me too much, And you talk to Dave Roberts,

112
00:05:31,318 --> 00:05:33,438
Speaker 1: he will tell you the same thing. They've relied so

113
00:05:33,558 --> 00:05:36,278
Speaker 1: much on the analytics and the scouting report. They kind

114
00:05:36,278 --> 00:05:38,638
Speaker 1: of got locked in and the game would take off

115
00:05:38,678 --> 00:05:41,318
Speaker 1: and they did not make adjustments well this year, and

116
00:05:41,358 --> 00:05:44,558
Speaker 1: it started actually early in the season. They empowered the catcher,

117
00:05:44,598 --> 00:05:47,078
Speaker 1: Will Smith to start calling his own game. Now, he's

118
00:05:47,078 --> 00:05:50,278
Speaker 1: been around long enough. He's not a rookie. He's seen enough,

119
00:05:50,358 --> 00:05:52,358
Speaker 1: and he's called up big league games. He should have

120
00:05:52,638 --> 00:05:55,558
Speaker 1: institutional knowledge to make good decisions on how to get

121
00:05:55,558 --> 00:05:58,278
Speaker 1: a pitcher through a game. And they trusted him, and

122
00:05:58,318 --> 00:06:00,598
Speaker 1: I think it showed in this postseason, whether it was

123
00:06:00,638 --> 00:06:02,758
Speaker 1: you know, three to two curve ball to Francisco lindor

124
00:06:02,758 --> 00:06:05,758
Speaker 1: at the bases loaded in the LCS, whether it's sticking

125
00:06:05,958 --> 00:06:09,038
Speaker 1: strictly with fastball, curveball with Walker Bueller when he's closing

126
00:06:09,038 --> 00:06:12,318
Speaker 1: Game five. I thought Will Smith did a great job.

127
00:06:12,358 --> 00:06:15,958
Speaker 1: And kudos to the Dodgers for allowing their catcher to

128
00:06:16,118 --> 00:06:18,438
Speaker 1: read swings and make decisions on the fly.

129
00:06:18,998 --> 00:06:22,958
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, that's this information is wonderful, and the

130
00:06:22,998 --> 00:06:26,158
Speaker 2: information needs to be put out there prior to the game.

131
00:06:27,358 --> 00:06:30,638
Speaker 2: And of course there's whomever's going to participate and give

132
00:06:30,678 --> 00:06:32,878
Speaker 2: it to the catcher, the pitcher, etcetera. That's part of

133
00:06:32,878 --> 00:06:36,638
Speaker 2: this pregame scenario. Okay, now, having said all the stuff

134
00:06:36,638 --> 00:06:39,438
Speaker 2: that you just said too, I want my catcher to

135
00:06:39,478 --> 00:06:41,318
Speaker 2: be in charge, but I don't want my catcher to

136
00:06:41,358 --> 00:06:44,838
Speaker 2: go rogue. I mean, there are certain hard and fast

137
00:06:44,918 --> 00:06:48,518
Speaker 2: decisions on certain hitters that you can't walk away from.

138
00:06:48,598 --> 00:06:50,558
Speaker 2: Whether it's that he won't chase spin or that he

139
00:06:50,638 --> 00:06:53,398
Speaker 2: will chase spin, whether or not he's right now, he

140
00:06:53,438 --> 00:06:56,638
Speaker 2: cannot catch up to velocity, and so do not throw

141
00:06:56,678 --> 00:06:58,678
Speaker 2: him a break and ball strike. There's some hard and

142
00:06:58,678 --> 00:07:00,838
Speaker 2: fast stuff that this catcher. I have to believe the

143
00:07:00,838 --> 00:07:03,398
Speaker 2: catcher is not going to go rogan a situation and

144
00:07:03,518 --> 00:07:06,518
Speaker 2: just think I gotta do this because I just did that.

145
00:07:06,518 --> 00:07:09,918
Speaker 2: That's what drives me nuts. Like there's there certain hitters,

146
00:07:09,918 --> 00:07:12,318
Speaker 2: and to a certain extent, Mike Troutt was having a

147
00:07:12,318 --> 00:07:14,878
Speaker 2: hard time with the fastball, so just stay with it.

148
00:07:14,958 --> 00:07:17,598
Speaker 2: Why why are you gonna even throw him a breaking

149
00:07:17,638 --> 00:07:21,358
Speaker 2: ball strike? But you think because I threw him a fastball,

150
00:07:21,518 --> 00:07:23,158
Speaker 2: one or two fastballs in a row. He's gonna be

151
00:07:23,158 --> 00:07:25,278
Speaker 2: looking for a fastball. Now I got to throw him

152
00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:27,678
Speaker 2: a breaking ball. See that's that's the part of it

153
00:07:27,758 --> 00:07:31,638
Speaker 2: I that drives me crazy. So the point being overarching

154
00:07:31,758 --> 00:07:35,918
Speaker 2: is that bit information before the game. Make sure your

155
00:07:35,958 --> 00:07:39,118
Speaker 2: catcher understands that this is These are like really hard

156
00:07:39,558 --> 00:07:40,278
Speaker 2: true facts that.

157
00:07:40,238 --> 00:07:42,238
Speaker 3: You Okay, what do you do on the fly?

158
00:07:42,398 --> 00:07:44,598
Speaker 2: I mean, all of a sudden, the hitter's late on

159
00:07:44,638 --> 00:07:46,798
Speaker 2: the fastball, or but was he late because he was

160
00:07:46,798 --> 00:07:48,438
Speaker 2: looking for a breaking ball? I mean, there's all these

161
00:07:48,438 --> 00:07:50,958
Speaker 2: different things to consider. So I do believe in the

162
00:07:50,998 --> 00:07:51,438
Speaker 2: game plan.

163
00:07:51,598 --> 00:07:51,918
Speaker 3: I do.

164
00:07:52,118 --> 00:07:54,518
Speaker 2: I believe in the catcher congos whole game. But I

165
00:07:54,518 --> 00:07:56,758
Speaker 2: wanted to stick to the game plan and not go

166
00:07:56,998 --> 00:08:02,158
Speaker 2: rogue just because he thinks last point. I do like

167
00:08:02,198 --> 00:08:04,798
Speaker 2: the idea of Mike Borzillo and thet I've talked about

168
00:08:04,798 --> 00:08:09,398
Speaker 2: this before, Borzello. There's not many coaches out there that

169
00:08:09,518 --> 00:08:13,998
Speaker 2: want the responsibility of being the last call when.

170
00:08:13,878 --> 00:08:15,918
Speaker 3: It comes to making a pitch in a crucial situation.

171
00:08:15,998 --> 00:08:19,158
Speaker 2: It's so different than an offensive coordinator upstairs for a

172
00:08:19,158 --> 00:08:21,838
Speaker 2: football game. These guys are making the call right, so

173
00:08:21,958 --> 00:08:24,398
Speaker 2: all the response. You know, you talk about the quarterback, whatever,

174
00:08:24,438 --> 00:08:28,198
Speaker 2: the team, but the call comes from upstairs. I watch

175
00:08:28,238 --> 00:08:31,158
Speaker 2: the Penn State game against Ohio States, your guys. I

176
00:08:31,158 --> 00:08:33,998
Speaker 2: mean that goal line stance by hell State was like

177
00:08:34,078 --> 00:08:38,038
Speaker 2: so awkwardly bad based on the play calling by Penn State.

178
00:08:38,438 --> 00:08:41,598
Speaker 2: So when you get to this point where you need

179
00:08:41,638 --> 00:08:44,998
Speaker 2: a nugget, need a nugget. My catcher, Will Smith's good,

180
00:08:45,198 --> 00:08:47,278
Speaker 2: he's got it down, but there's a nugget to be

181
00:08:47,798 --> 00:08:50,158
Speaker 2: I'm just not sure. That's why I like to peek

182
00:08:50,198 --> 00:08:53,078
Speaker 2: into the dugout as much as anything, and I like

183
00:08:53,238 --> 00:08:56,438
Speaker 2: the coach in the dugout that's willing to accept the

184
00:08:56,478 --> 00:09:00,078
Speaker 2: responsibility of making that call. This I really feel firmly

185
00:09:00,078 --> 00:09:01,958
Speaker 2: and strongly about. So if we could go on and on,

186
00:09:02,038 --> 00:09:03,558
Speaker 2: we could go back and forth with all of this.

187
00:09:04,118 --> 00:09:06,198
Speaker 2: But I do believe in what you're seeing and what

188
00:09:06,278 --> 00:09:09,958
Speaker 2: your knowledge and your wisdom experience indicates. But I also

189
00:09:10,118 --> 00:09:13,958
Speaker 2: believe in sticking to a plan till you understand. I

190
00:09:13,998 --> 00:09:16,718
Speaker 2: got to go away from the plan, But just don't

191
00:09:16,758 --> 00:09:19,398
Speaker 2: do things because you pull them out of your hat.

192
00:09:19,638 --> 00:09:20,598
Speaker 3: It's got to be well.

193
00:09:20,438 --> 00:09:23,638
Speaker 2: Thought out, and I oftentimes just pulling it out of

194
00:09:23,638 --> 00:09:26,558
Speaker 2: your hat. Is that the blank moment, is that your

195
00:09:26,558 --> 00:09:29,118
Speaker 2: wisdom and intelligence coming through only if you put in

196
00:09:29,158 --> 00:09:29,438
Speaker 2: the work.

197
00:09:29,878 --> 00:09:32,478
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in this case, I think Will Smith was

198
00:09:32,518 --> 00:09:35,358
Speaker 1: not going rogue. I think he's stuck to the game

199
00:09:35,358 --> 00:09:37,878
Speaker 1: plan really well. And one example I'll give you is

200
00:09:37,918 --> 00:09:41,198
Speaker 1: the way the Dodgers completely took Juan Soto off the board.

201
00:09:42,118 --> 00:09:45,438
Speaker 1: They circle that name, they highlighted that name, they underlined

202
00:09:45,438 --> 00:09:46,838
Speaker 1: that name, whatever you want to call it. When this

203
00:09:46,918 --> 00:09:48,958
Speaker 1: series began, there was no way they were letting Juan

204
00:09:49,078 --> 00:09:50,758
Speaker 1: Soto beat them. They were more than happy to go

205
00:09:50,798 --> 00:09:53,278
Speaker 1: after Aaron Judge. And there was some chase in his

206
00:09:53,358 --> 00:09:55,598
Speaker 1: game in the postseason like we did not see in

207
00:09:55,598 --> 00:09:58,638
Speaker 1: the regular season. They exploited that Wan Soto is not

208
00:09:58,718 --> 00:10:01,158
Speaker 1: going to chase, and he's also the best fastball hitter

209
00:10:01,238 --> 00:10:04,958
Speaker 1: on the planet. In five games, the Dodgers threw Juan

210
00:10:05,078 --> 00:10:09,078
Speaker 1: Soto just thirteen fastballs in the zone thirteen and he

211
00:10:09,118 --> 00:10:11,238
Speaker 1: went three for three against those pitches. By the way,

212
00:10:12,598 --> 00:10:15,198
Speaker 1: he only got up. He only saw four pitches the

213
00:10:15,438 --> 00:10:17,998
Speaker 1: pitches the entire series with a runner in scoring position.

214
00:10:18,198 --> 00:10:20,478
Speaker 1: How about that one pitch in the strikes on with

215
00:10:20,558 --> 00:10:23,918
Speaker 1: runners in scoring position. It basically, you know labor Torres

216
00:10:23,958 --> 00:10:26,398
Speaker 1: went cold. You could argue that Aaron Boone should have

217
00:10:26,438 --> 00:10:29,278
Speaker 1: moved the lineup and had Aaron Judge lee off and

218
00:10:29,318 --> 00:10:32,918
Speaker 1: Sodo behind him, which I preferred, But anyway, Torre is

219
00:10:32,958 --> 00:10:36,718
Speaker 1: going cold and Judge chasing behind him. The Dodgers took

220
00:10:36,758 --> 00:10:39,078
Speaker 1: one Sotto off the board. They refused to throw him

221
00:10:39,118 --> 00:10:42,158
Speaker 1: fastballs that were hit able, So give them a ton

222
00:10:42,198 --> 00:10:45,758
Speaker 1: of credit. Game planning, absolutely, but there's certain cases there

223
00:10:45,758 --> 00:10:48,958
Speaker 1: where I did think that Will Smith was empowered to

224
00:10:48,998 --> 00:10:51,798
Speaker 1: make some calls within the framework of the game plan,

225
00:10:52,078 --> 00:10:52,638
Speaker 1: and he did that.

226
00:10:53,118 --> 00:10:54,758
Speaker 3: I agree with that one hundred percent. Go ahead.

227
00:10:54,838 --> 00:10:56,718
Speaker 1: One more note on spin, and I think this is

228
00:10:56,758 --> 00:10:59,398
Speaker 1: important because we talked about the Dodgers and all our

229
00:10:59,478 --> 00:11:03,038
Speaker 1: money and resources and it's crazy, right, but it comes

230
00:11:03,078 --> 00:11:05,678
Speaker 1: down to player to development as well and their coaches

231
00:11:05,798 --> 00:11:08,398
Speaker 1: minor league level, major league level. They've done a great

232
00:11:08,478 --> 00:11:11,998
Speaker 1: job drafting, especially pitchers in later rounds who are available

233
00:11:12,038 --> 00:11:14,478
Speaker 1: to all thirty teams, bringing out the best of them,

234
00:11:14,598 --> 00:11:17,678
Speaker 1: or identifying pitchers on other teams and bringing out the

235
00:11:17,678 --> 00:11:20,838
Speaker 1: best of them. And best example for me is Anthony Bonda.

236
00:11:21,598 --> 00:11:25,518
Speaker 1: You think about Anthony Bonda last year the minor leagues,

237
00:11:25,558 --> 00:11:27,798
Speaker 1: he had a seventy e RA. He was defaed by

238
00:11:27,838 --> 00:11:30,038
Speaker 1: the National spent the entire year of the minor leagues.

239
00:11:30,078 --> 00:11:32,638
Speaker 1: He went home, started coaching high school kids in Arizona,

240
00:11:33,318 --> 00:11:34,918
Speaker 1: and he said he got the bug again because he

241
00:11:34,918 --> 00:11:36,478
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if he wanted to keep pitching. He was

242
00:11:36,478 --> 00:11:38,438
Speaker 1: thirty years old. He thought maybe I'd have to go

243
00:11:38,478 --> 00:11:41,758
Speaker 1: to Mexico. He's teaching high school kids and he sees

244
00:11:41,798 --> 00:11:44,038
Speaker 1: the joy in these kids and says, I'm gonna go

245
00:11:44,038 --> 00:11:46,558
Speaker 1: back to training. I'm and go back to pitching. Signs

246
00:11:46,558 --> 00:11:49,758
Speaker 1: a minor league deal with Cleveland one month into Triple

247
00:11:49,798 --> 00:11:53,278
Speaker 1: A season in Columbus. The Dodgers saw something in Anthony Bonda.

248
00:11:53,478 --> 00:11:56,598
Speaker 1: The Dodgers are now his twelfth organization. They just paid

249
00:11:56,918 --> 00:11:59,518
Speaker 1: some money to get Bonda out of the minor leagues

250
00:11:59,558 --> 00:12:02,838
Speaker 1: from Cleveland. He shows up with the Dodgers and the

251
00:12:02,838 --> 00:12:06,118
Speaker 1: Dodgers have a pitch coach, Joe who's probably the king

252
00:12:06,158 --> 00:12:08,558
Speaker 1: of spin. I call him Connor McGinnis. He knows more

253
00:12:08,598 --> 00:12:11,038
Speaker 1: about spin, how it works, how to teach it than

254
00:12:11,158 --> 00:12:14,398
Speaker 1: I think anybody in baseball. Anthony Bonda shows up and

255
00:12:14,438 --> 00:12:17,318
Speaker 1: they say, throw your slider. They laughed at it. He

256
00:12:17,358 --> 00:12:20,918
Speaker 1: has a three finger grip on his slider. They said,

257
00:12:20,998 --> 00:12:23,438
Speaker 1: you can't throw a slider like that. The problem is

258
00:12:23,438 --> 00:12:25,038
Speaker 1: they found out and they put him on a high

259
00:12:25,038 --> 00:12:26,918
Speaker 1: speed camera by the way, so they could see how

260
00:12:26,918 --> 00:12:29,958
Speaker 1: the ball came off of his fingers. Anthony Bonda is

261
00:12:29,998 --> 00:12:32,918
Speaker 1: a heavy pronator, so he'd be perfect for throwing a

262
00:12:32,958 --> 00:12:35,638
Speaker 1: spiral in football. And he has a really good change

263
00:12:35,678 --> 00:12:38,958
Speaker 1: up because he pronates the hand naturally and heavily. But

264
00:12:39,038 --> 00:12:41,158
Speaker 1: he can't throw a breaking ball because he was always

265
00:12:41,158 --> 00:12:43,758
Speaker 1: taught to get his fingers around the front of the baseball.

266
00:12:44,038 --> 00:12:47,278
Speaker 1: That supernation doesn't come naturally to him. He's fought that

267
00:12:47,598 --> 00:12:50,678
Speaker 1: for ten years as a professional, and the Dodgers showed

268
00:12:50,758 --> 00:12:54,518
Speaker 1: him high speed camera footage of other heavy pronators who

269
00:12:54,558 --> 00:12:57,678
Speaker 1: are throwing breaking pitches, whether it's sliders or curveballs, and

270
00:12:57,718 --> 00:13:00,238
Speaker 1: throwing them well, and that you can use the pronation

271
00:13:00,438 --> 00:13:02,998
Speaker 1: that's natural as part of throwing this pitch. You don't

272
00:13:02,998 --> 00:13:05,678
Speaker 1: have to get your finger out around the baseball. While

273
00:13:06,078 --> 00:13:10,238
Speaker 1: his career changed. That day May the nineteenth, they put

274
00:13:10,278 --> 00:13:12,238
Speaker 1: him a high speed camera in the bullpen session. Connor

275
00:13:12,318 --> 00:13:15,998
Speaker 1: mcginnons showed him how to use pronation to throw a slider.

276
00:13:16,838 --> 00:13:19,438
Speaker 1: He had a slider that in the postseason, Joe was

277
00:13:19,438 --> 00:13:22,718
Speaker 1: the toughest slider to hit. He pitched an all four

278
00:13:22,958 --> 00:13:25,518
Speaker 1: Dodger wins in the World Series. This is the guy

279
00:13:25,558 --> 00:13:28,518
Speaker 1: who's thirty one years old, pitched for twelve teams seventy

280
00:13:28,638 --> 00:13:30,958
Speaker 1: ra last year. So when you talk about the Dodgers,

281
00:13:31,118 --> 00:13:33,038
Speaker 1: you talk all you want about the money they spent

282
00:13:33,078 --> 00:13:37,758
Speaker 1: on Yamamoto and Otani, you name it, finding gems out

283
00:13:37,798 --> 00:13:40,998
Speaker 1: there the baseball universe and having a coaching staff to

284
00:13:41,038 --> 00:13:43,678
Speaker 1: bring out the best of them. The Dodgers do that

285
00:13:43,998 --> 00:13:45,878
Speaker 1: as well, if not better than anybody else.

286
00:13:46,358 --> 00:13:48,518
Speaker 2: That's a perfect example of using tech, and that's what

287
00:13:48,718 --> 00:13:52,318
Speaker 2: really is a superstar. It's a great example. I think

288
00:13:52,358 --> 00:13:55,278
Speaker 2: it comes down to also working with hitters. There certain

289
00:13:55,278 --> 00:13:58,318
Speaker 2: things when you're as a coach, and this has been

290
00:13:58,358 --> 00:14:00,238
Speaker 2: the way it's been for years. You're only relying on

291
00:14:00,278 --> 00:14:02,638
Speaker 2: your eyes. Obviously, you're not gonna be able to see everything.

292
00:14:02,878 --> 00:14:05,918
Speaker 2: You can't you cannot see everything. So these high speed cameras,

293
00:14:05,958 --> 00:14:08,078
Speaker 2: the ability to slow things down and really break it

294
00:14:08,118 --> 00:14:12,278
Speaker 2: down more specifically is absolutely that's.

295
00:14:12,158 --> 00:14:14,078
Speaker 3: That's gold, Jerry, that's gold. You know, that's it.

296
00:14:14,238 --> 00:14:17,318
Speaker 2: That's exactly what you've been looking for. So that makes

297
00:14:17,358 --> 00:14:19,558
Speaker 2: all the sense in the world to me. That's the

298
00:14:19,638 --> 00:14:22,878
Speaker 2: part of analytics, I guess, but it's really just it's

299
00:14:23,038 --> 00:14:25,558
Speaker 2: it's a video technique and then from there good old

300
00:14:25,558 --> 00:14:28,958
Speaker 2: fashioned coaching takes over. But that's that's a perfect example.

301
00:14:28,998 --> 00:14:30,638
Speaker 2: With the rays, we were kind of on the front

302
00:14:30,718 --> 00:14:32,518
Speaker 2: end of that. We didn't really have that high speed

303
00:14:32,558 --> 00:14:35,038
Speaker 2: camera back in the day, but we had we had

304
00:14:35,718 --> 00:14:39,038
Speaker 2: the ability through the what was the the cameras on

305
00:14:39,118 --> 00:14:41,438
Speaker 2: the rooftops of ballparks and stuff.

306
00:14:41,438 --> 00:14:42,078
Speaker 3: There was different.

307
00:14:42,078 --> 00:14:45,878
Speaker 2: There was a where they would triangulate stuff anyway we would,

308
00:14:45,878 --> 00:14:47,598
Speaker 2: we would be able to break down things. Was like

309
00:14:47,598 --> 00:14:51,838
Speaker 2: I would ask for instances Joel Pralta's armslought any lower

310
00:14:51,878 --> 00:14:53,958
Speaker 2: than it had been a week or two weeks ago.

311
00:14:54,318 --> 00:14:56,158
Speaker 2: I'd ask Eric Neander that Andy. Eric would come back

312
00:14:56,198 --> 00:14:58,118
Speaker 2: and say, no, it's exactly the same way. Maybe you're right,

313
00:14:58,158 --> 00:15:00,558
Speaker 2: it's down or up a couple of inches. So that

314
00:15:00,838 --> 00:15:03,798
Speaker 2: those are the kind of areas and ways. I love

315
00:15:04,038 --> 00:15:06,758
Speaker 2: that from hitting perspective, I knew I used to study video,

316
00:15:07,038 --> 00:15:08,918
Speaker 2: and I would have to just look at video myself.

317
00:15:08,918 --> 00:15:10,918
Speaker 2: There was nobody there with you to help you, and

318
00:15:10,958 --> 00:15:13,598
Speaker 2: you have to like determine by putting side by side

319
00:15:13,598 --> 00:15:16,278
Speaker 2: images if you could differentiate between one or the other,

320
00:15:16,278 --> 00:15:17,918
Speaker 2: and you're seeing things that he had been doing that

321
00:15:17,958 --> 00:15:21,438
Speaker 2: he's not doing now. And that's where video originally became

322
00:15:22,518 --> 00:15:26,998
Speaker 2: popular and informative. But now this is video on steroids,

323
00:15:27,238 --> 00:15:29,878
Speaker 2: is like, this is slowing it down to the point

324
00:15:30,278 --> 00:15:33,958
Speaker 2: that you could really understand. And when you, as an

325
00:15:34,038 --> 00:15:37,438
Speaker 2: athlete can see that, I think most of us are

326
00:15:37,678 --> 00:15:40,038
Speaker 2: visual learners when you could see that, because audio learning

327
00:15:40,078 --> 00:15:42,278
Speaker 2: is very difficult. When you could visually see what I'm

328
00:15:42,278 --> 00:15:44,798
Speaker 2: doing wrong, and then you're able to implement it based

329
00:15:44,798 --> 00:15:46,438
Speaker 2: on what I saw. Then you cut it out there

330
00:15:46,438 --> 00:15:48,518
Speaker 2: and you start working on it. There comes to feel,

331
00:15:48,558 --> 00:15:49,718
Speaker 2: and then the coaches that's it.

332
00:15:49,798 --> 00:15:50,238
Speaker 3: That's right.

333
00:15:50,878 --> 00:15:53,678
Speaker 2: That's where this stuff is really helpful. So I totally

334
00:15:53,718 --> 00:15:54,958
Speaker 2: advocate that. I think it's great.

335
00:15:55,358 --> 00:15:58,158
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, the bottom line here to me is spin

336
00:15:58,318 --> 00:16:01,678
Speaker 1: is the way forward, and with the help of technology,

337
00:16:01,838 --> 00:16:05,838
Speaker 1: pictures and coaches are able to share spin in more

338
00:16:05,918 --> 00:16:09,358
Speaker 1: ways to defeat hitting than we've ever known before. So

339
00:16:09,798 --> 00:16:12,518
Speaker 1: you can only throw so hard. Velocity has gone up,

340
00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:16,078
Speaker 1: but as I said, hitters are adjusting to velocity, but

341
00:16:16,198 --> 00:16:18,918
Speaker 1: spin continues to be tougher and tougher to hit. And

342
00:16:18,958 --> 00:16:20,558
Speaker 1: I think that's where the game is right now, the

343
00:16:20,638 --> 00:16:25,198
Speaker 1: teaching of spin and shaping different pitches based on technology.

344
00:16:25,598 --> 00:16:27,758
Speaker 1: It's being done now, don't get me wrong, but that's

345
00:16:27,798 --> 00:16:31,838
Speaker 1: going to continue. I mentioned Joe. Two big free agents

346
00:16:31,878 --> 00:16:35,998
Speaker 1: out there, both New York Sluggers want Soto and Pete Alonzo.

347
00:16:36,798 --> 00:16:40,478
Speaker 1: What's their market value? Where will they wind up? We'll

348
00:16:40,478 --> 00:16:54,598
Speaker 1: dive into that next on the Book of Joe. So Joe.

349
00:16:54,638 --> 00:16:57,038
Speaker 1: I remember in spring training this year, I was talking

350
00:16:57,038 --> 00:17:00,398
Speaker 1: to Kevin Long, good buddy of this show, hitting coach

351
00:17:00,438 --> 00:17:03,118
Speaker 1: for the Philadelphia Phillies. He was a hitting coach for

352
00:17:03,158 --> 00:17:06,358
Speaker 1: the Yankees and early on in actually the start of

353
00:17:06,398 --> 00:17:09,438
Speaker 1: one SODA's career with the Washington Nationals, he told me

354
00:17:09,438 --> 00:17:11,798
Speaker 1: a great story about how the Yankees were preparing to

355
00:17:11,838 --> 00:17:13,998
Speaker 1: trade for Juan Soto and they gave up a big

356
00:17:14,038 --> 00:17:16,638
Speaker 1: package for a guy that was really a one year rental.

357
00:17:16,678 --> 00:17:18,358
Speaker 1: He knew Wan Soda was going to be a free

358
00:17:18,358 --> 00:17:20,558
Speaker 1: agent at twenty six. There was no hope of extending

359
00:17:20,598 --> 00:17:23,438
Speaker 1: him before the season, so they gave up a heavy

360
00:17:23,478 --> 00:17:26,078
Speaker 1: package and before they pulled the trigger on it, Brian

361
00:17:26,158 --> 00:17:30,118
Speaker 1: Cash from the GM called up Kevin Long and he said, listen,

362
00:17:30,678 --> 00:17:33,558
Speaker 1: I can't be wrong on this. This is too big

363
00:17:33,598 --> 00:17:36,358
Speaker 1: of a deal. They swung a miss on some other

364
00:17:36,398 --> 00:17:39,438
Speaker 1: big deals in the past, and he basically called up

365
00:17:39,518 --> 00:17:41,518
Speaker 1: Kevin Long to get confirmation that he was making the

366
00:17:41,558 --> 00:17:44,598
Speaker 1: right deal. And Kevin Long told him Wan Soda is

367
00:17:44,638 --> 00:17:47,238
Speaker 1: going to hit, he's going to take his walks, he's

368
00:17:47,278 --> 00:17:51,238
Speaker 1: going to do damage. He's the most short thing in baseball.

369
00:17:51,838 --> 00:17:55,158
Speaker 1: And that certainly is true. And Joe, that's why I

370
00:17:55,198 --> 00:17:57,278
Speaker 1: think when you're looking at a twenty six year old

371
00:17:57,518 --> 00:18:01,638
Speaker 1: who plays every day, controls the strike zone, loves the

372
00:18:01,678 --> 00:18:05,078
Speaker 1: game of baseball, he's going to be paid more than

373
00:18:05,078 --> 00:18:08,318
Speaker 1: show Hey Otani on the free agent market. And I'm

374
00:18:08,358 --> 00:18:10,358
Speaker 1: not saying he's going to get more than seven hundred million.

375
00:18:10,398 --> 00:18:13,318
Speaker 1: Don't forget. You know, Otani is taking only two million

376
00:18:13,318 --> 00:18:16,278
Speaker 1: a year in salary, so his average present day value

377
00:18:16,278 --> 00:18:19,918
Speaker 1: Otani is forty six point six. So I'm going to

378
00:18:19,998 --> 00:18:22,078
Speaker 1: start with the number, Joe for Wan Soto, I think

379
00:18:22,078 --> 00:18:26,638
Speaker 1: it's thirteen years, six hundred eleven million dollars, because that

380
00:18:26,718 --> 00:18:29,838
Speaker 1: works out to forty seven million per year. It's going

381
00:18:29,878 --> 00:18:32,358
Speaker 1: to be above forty six to six. What do you

382
00:18:32,358 --> 00:18:36,198
Speaker 1: think of Wan Soto at six hundred eleven million dollars,

383
00:18:36,478 --> 00:18:37,278
Speaker 1: it's going to happen.

384
00:18:37,398 --> 00:18:38,438
Speaker 3: I don't disagree at all.

385
00:18:38,478 --> 00:18:40,878
Speaker 2: I mean whatever that there's gonna be so many bidders

386
00:18:41,078 --> 00:18:42,878
Speaker 2: in this war based on his age too.

387
00:18:42,918 --> 00:18:44,238
Speaker 3: I mean I think a.

388
00:18:44,198 --> 00:18:47,078
Speaker 2: Team or two that may have not normally put their

389
00:18:47,358 --> 00:18:49,838
Speaker 2: toe in that level of free Asian water is going

390
00:18:49,918 --> 00:18:52,318
Speaker 2: to do it this time. So there's there's not that

391
00:18:52,358 --> 00:18:53,878
Speaker 2: he's going to want to go places unless they have

392
00:18:53,918 --> 00:18:56,038
Speaker 2: an opportunity to win. I don't think, but I think

393
00:18:56,078 --> 00:18:58,238
Speaker 2: there's going to be even more than normal based on

394
00:18:58,318 --> 00:19:01,918
Speaker 2: all the different factors. But Kevin Long said, just look

395
00:19:01,918 --> 00:19:05,278
Speaker 2: at his birth certificate. Watch him in World Series. I mean,

396
00:19:05,318 --> 00:19:08,518
Speaker 2: this guy passes every test, including the eyeball test, and

397
00:19:08,558 --> 00:19:13,478
Speaker 2: then the personality. He ingratiates himself easily, He speaks well.

398
00:19:13,518 --> 00:19:16,078
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he speaks English that well, and he seems.

399
00:19:15,838 --> 00:19:16,758
Speaker 3: To be a very humble guy.

400
00:19:16,798 --> 00:19:19,078
Speaker 2: On top of that, kind of the complete package. You

401
00:19:19,118 --> 00:19:21,678
Speaker 2: can't pitch, but neither did show Hey this year, so

402
00:19:22,598 --> 00:19:24,278
Speaker 2: and you don't even know going down wrote how much

403
00:19:24,278 --> 00:19:26,958
Speaker 2: show he's going to be able to pitch. So I yes,

404
00:19:27,278 --> 00:19:31,038
Speaker 2: whatever that higher number is it's possible, it's probably, it's likely.

405
00:19:31,198 --> 00:19:33,038
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, I didn't see all that.

406
00:19:33,158 --> 00:19:34,678
Speaker 3: I liked him for years.

407
00:19:34,718 --> 00:19:35,878
Speaker 2: I liked him, and then when I saw him in

408
00:19:35,878 --> 00:19:38,198
Speaker 2: San Diego, I thought he had regressed a little bit.

409
00:19:38,278 --> 00:19:39,598
Speaker 2: So to him, I mean when every time I didn't

410
00:19:39,598 --> 00:19:41,598
Speaker 2: watch him often enough, I saw a lot of ground

411
00:19:41,678 --> 00:19:44,878
Speaker 2: balls roll over ground balls the defense. Even though I

412
00:19:44,918 --> 00:19:46,878
Speaker 2: guess he was a Gold Glove finalist this year, I

413
00:19:47,678 --> 00:19:50,238
Speaker 2: never really saw that as part of his game. You know,

414
00:19:50,398 --> 00:19:54,718
Speaker 2: base running okay, but I never realized to the level

415
00:19:55,118 --> 00:19:57,838
Speaker 2: the level of his abilities when he came to home plate.

416
00:19:58,038 --> 00:20:00,038
Speaker 2: Always thought he was really really good. But now it's

417
00:20:00,038 --> 00:20:02,238
Speaker 2: just like over the top goods. So yeah, he's going

418
00:20:02,278 --> 00:20:03,798
Speaker 2: to get all that. He's going to get all that.

419
00:20:04,198 --> 00:20:06,878
Speaker 2: And I like to believe why. I believe the Yankees

420
00:20:06,918 --> 00:20:08,758
Speaker 2: are gonna stuck, because if the Yankees don't do that,

421
00:20:09,878 --> 00:20:11,598
Speaker 2: I don't know how they put it together next year

422
00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:13,718
Speaker 2: they come even close to what they were at this year.

423
00:20:13,918 --> 00:20:16,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have no idea what their plan B is.

424
00:20:16,958 --> 00:20:19,958
Speaker 1: We'll talk about with the Yankees. But Wan Soda to

425
00:20:20,038 --> 00:20:22,238
Speaker 1: me is he talked about the year in San Diego.

426
00:20:22,558 --> 00:20:24,438
Speaker 1: You know, it was good wasn't great for Wan Soto.

427
00:20:24,478 --> 00:20:28,998
Speaker 1: But think about his worst season in terms of OPS plus,

428
00:20:29,038 --> 00:20:32,318
Speaker 1: so that's adjusted for league average and ballpark is one

429
00:20:32,398 --> 00:20:35,318
Speaker 1: hundred and forty two. That's forty two percent better than

430
00:20:35,318 --> 00:20:38,318
Speaker 1: the average player. That's the floor for Juan Soto. That

431
00:20:38,478 --> 00:20:42,678
Speaker 1: is all star level, and the worst of Juan Soto

432
00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:46,598
Speaker 1: is all Star Juan Soto. So I do agree with

433
00:20:46,718 --> 00:20:49,158
Speaker 1: Kevin Long, He's the surest thing in baseball. I do

434
00:20:49,238 --> 00:20:50,878
Speaker 1: think it comes down to the Mets and the Yankees.

435
00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:51,158
Speaker 3: Joe.

436
00:20:51,198 --> 00:20:52,758
Speaker 1: I agree, there's a lot of teams that are gonna

437
00:20:52,798 --> 00:20:58,478
Speaker 1: get into it. San Francisco, Toronto, maybe the Dodgers, the Padres,

438
00:20:58,518 --> 00:21:01,638
Speaker 1: the Nationals, the Cubs. You know, you kick the tires.

439
00:21:01,638 --> 00:21:03,918
Speaker 1: It's Juan Soto. You can't just sit on the sideline

440
00:21:03,918 --> 00:21:05,358
Speaker 1: and see where it goes. But I think where this

441
00:21:05,478 --> 00:21:07,798
Speaker 1: number is going it's not for the faint hearted. And

442
00:21:07,838 --> 00:21:11,158
Speaker 1: I do think that the Mets and Steve Cohen have

443
00:21:11,198 --> 00:21:14,398
Speaker 1: a much higher breaking point than the Yankees and hal Steinbrenner.

444
00:21:14,478 --> 00:21:17,598
Speaker 1: I just believe that. Here's my other question, Joe, is

445
00:21:17,918 --> 00:21:22,038
Speaker 1: if you're the Yankees, right and you do sign Juan Soto,

446
00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:24,838
Speaker 1: and it's gonna take thirteen years. You've got two big

447
00:21:24,878 --> 00:21:28,118
Speaker 1: outfielders signed up for a long time. I mean, only

448
00:21:28,158 --> 00:21:29,798
Speaker 1: one of them can DH at the time. We're talking

449
00:21:29,798 --> 00:21:33,558
Speaker 1: about Judge and Soto, And if you do have Soto

450
00:21:33,638 --> 00:21:35,998
Speaker 1: and Judge back, you're probably gonna have to play Judge

451
00:21:35,998 --> 00:21:37,918
Speaker 1: in centerfield some more at the age of thirty two.

452
00:21:38,038 --> 00:21:40,438
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of Judge and centerfield at all,

453
00:21:41,358 --> 00:21:42,878
Speaker 1: not that he can't do it. We've seen him play

454
00:21:42,918 --> 00:21:45,278
Speaker 1: center field. He's at least average, maybe a little bit better,

455
00:21:45,438 --> 00:21:47,518
Speaker 1: but on that body, I want to take care of

456
00:21:47,598 --> 00:21:49,318
Speaker 1: him more. I don't want to ask him to play

457
00:21:49,358 --> 00:21:51,038
Speaker 1: center field as much as the Yankees do. And I'm

458
00:21:51,038 --> 00:21:53,838
Speaker 1: not sure that Jason Dominguez is an everyday major league

459
00:21:53,878 --> 00:21:55,918
Speaker 1: center fielder. We've seen him in left field and the

460
00:21:55,958 --> 00:21:57,798
Speaker 1: Yankees say, well, he didn't look in the left field

461
00:21:57,838 --> 00:21:59,438
Speaker 1: because he doesn't have a lot of reps out there.

462
00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:01,478
Speaker 1: I don't know, if you're a natural center fielder, you

463
00:22:01,478 --> 00:22:04,638
Speaker 1: can play any position in the outfield. It well, I'm

464
00:22:04,678 --> 00:22:06,958
Speaker 1: not sure if Jason Dominguez is the answer in center field.

465
00:22:06,998 --> 00:22:10,598
Speaker 1: So there's questions for the Yankees with Wan Soto and

466
00:22:10,678 --> 00:22:12,078
Speaker 1: even more without Wan Sodo.

467
00:22:12,478 --> 00:22:15,918
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been thinking about that actually, and for me,

468
00:22:16,118 --> 00:22:19,118
Speaker 2: I would put Sodo in left, put Judge back in right.

469
00:22:19,158 --> 00:22:22,558
Speaker 2: And even if I had to call Jazz Chisholm tomorrow

470
00:22:22,558 --> 00:22:25,398
Speaker 2: and say, listen, I want you to start working out

471
00:22:25,438 --> 00:22:27,838
Speaker 2: as a center fielder. I know there's mixed reviews on

472
00:22:27,878 --> 00:22:32,078
Speaker 2: all that, but his talents, his abilities, his athleticism, everything

473
00:22:32,118 --> 00:22:35,078
Speaker 2: about him is quickness. I think I haven't seen him

474
00:22:35,158 --> 00:22:37,318
Speaker 2: enough at second base. People say he's a better second basement,

475
00:22:37,358 --> 00:22:39,358
Speaker 2: but he's the kind of guy to me that doesn't

476
00:22:39,398 --> 00:22:40,998
Speaker 2: look like he belongs on the dirt as much as

477
00:22:41,038 --> 00:22:44,238
Speaker 2: he belongs on the grass. So they might answer, might

478
00:22:44,318 --> 00:22:45,878
Speaker 2: already be in house, and then you go looking for

479
00:22:45,958 --> 00:22:49,518
Speaker 2: your second basement because Torres won't be back. I would

480
00:22:49,558 --> 00:22:52,918
Speaker 2: not unless they know something I have no privy knowledge

481
00:22:52,918 --> 00:22:57,798
Speaker 2: about whatsoever. That provides a longer career, I think for Soto,

482
00:22:57,838 --> 00:23:00,198
Speaker 2: and it provides a longer career for Judge. Okay, even

483
00:23:00,198 --> 00:23:02,158
Speaker 2: if you thought Judge was a better outfield, put Judge

484
00:23:02,158 --> 00:23:04,558
Speaker 2: and left. I'm okay with that figure field and Yankee

485
00:23:04,598 --> 00:23:07,558
Speaker 2: Stadium in rightfield. Whatever your sensibilities tell you as as

486
00:23:07,598 --> 00:23:10,398
Speaker 2: a baseball person, but I would put them on the corners,

487
00:23:10,678 --> 00:23:13,238
Speaker 2: and I would even consider, like I said, Chisholm in centerfield,

488
00:23:13,398 --> 00:23:15,518
Speaker 2: or if there's a center fielder out there, but I'm

489
00:23:15,518 --> 00:23:18,118
Speaker 2: looking baiters possibly considered one of the better center fielders

490
00:23:18,118 --> 00:23:20,158
Speaker 2: out there right now, and that's not how you want

491
00:23:20,198 --> 00:23:23,718
Speaker 2: to go after this. So I'd be concerned. I'd be curious.

492
00:23:23,838 --> 00:23:26,318
Speaker 2: I don't know what the scouting reports, so I haven't

493
00:23:26,318 --> 00:23:29,478
Speaker 2: seen it enough. But my first inclination as a somebody

494
00:23:29,518 --> 00:23:32,078
Speaker 2: walking looking from the side, so too, and judge in

495
00:23:32,118 --> 00:23:34,598
Speaker 2: the corners, Chisholm and center start working on it, like

496
00:23:35,078 --> 00:23:36,678
Speaker 2: take a month off and we're gonna start working on

497
00:23:36,718 --> 00:23:39,118
Speaker 2: this thing, and then find yourself a second basement at

498
00:23:39,118 --> 00:23:42,358
Speaker 2: a third baseman. There's there's I think those players are

499
00:23:42,358 --> 00:23:45,318
Speaker 2: out there more than a centerfielder that you like.

500
00:23:45,598 --> 00:23:48,198
Speaker 1: That's a good idea. I'm with you. I mean, I

501
00:23:48,238 --> 00:23:50,878
Speaker 1: know Jazz wasn't great in the short time he went

502
00:23:50,918 --> 00:23:53,438
Speaker 1: to centerfield, but that doesn't mean you give up on it.

503
00:23:53,478 --> 00:23:56,358
Speaker 1: With his athleticism. Something to think about a lot of

504
00:23:56,398 --> 00:23:58,758
Speaker 1: options for the Yankees. I mean, it's it's going to

505
00:23:58,758 --> 00:24:02,198
Speaker 1: be a key off season for them. Let's talk about

506
00:24:02,198 --> 00:24:05,838
Speaker 1: Pete Alonzo now, you know, listen, Peter a Lonzo is

507
00:24:05,878 --> 00:24:07,318
Speaker 1: going to roll out of bed and hit thirty to

508
00:24:07,318 --> 00:24:10,398
Speaker 1: forty home runs. We know that the question is at

509
00:24:10,398 --> 00:24:12,918
Speaker 1: the age of thirty, how many years do you want

510
00:24:12,958 --> 00:24:15,238
Speaker 1: to commit to a guy who is not a good defender?

511
00:24:15,518 --> 00:24:17,198
Speaker 1: I mean, Joe, every time he has to make that

512
00:24:17,238 --> 00:24:20,518
Speaker 1: three to one play, you just hold your breath. He

513
00:24:20,878 --> 00:24:23,958
Speaker 1: doesn't throw the ball well, does not have range, he

514
00:24:23,998 --> 00:24:26,718
Speaker 1: struggles on pop ups. He is what he is. He's

515
00:24:26,718 --> 00:24:29,238
Speaker 1: a slugger. He's a home run hitter, doesn't strike all

516
00:24:29,278 --> 00:24:31,158
Speaker 1: out all that much, so he's not a true three

517
00:24:31,198 --> 00:24:34,198
Speaker 1: outcome guy. Got some big hits for the Mets in

518
00:24:34,238 --> 00:24:37,958
Speaker 1: the postseason. He's able to change a game, and in

519
00:24:37,998 --> 00:24:40,478
Speaker 1: a sport now where it's almost tougher than ever to

520
00:24:40,478 --> 00:24:43,118
Speaker 1: get a hit, home runs are where it's at. So

521
00:24:43,318 --> 00:24:47,158
Speaker 1: Peter Alonso definitely has a good market. But how high

522
00:24:47,278 --> 00:24:50,198
Speaker 1: is that market? For me? It's limited. I think you're

523
00:24:50,238 --> 00:24:52,878
Speaker 1: probably looking at four or five years at twenty five

524
00:24:52,878 --> 00:24:54,758
Speaker 1: million a year. I don't see that he's going to

525
00:24:54,838 --> 00:24:58,358
Speaker 1: have a market above Matt Olsen or Freddie Freeman. I'm

526
00:24:58,358 --> 00:25:00,678
Speaker 1: sure he can take his power numbers on the market

527
00:25:00,758 --> 00:25:03,318
Speaker 1: and believe that he should go beyond that, and let's

528
00:25:03,318 --> 00:25:05,678
Speaker 1: see if he does. But I don't see the Mets

529
00:25:05,758 --> 00:25:08,918
Speaker 1: going beyond that. And I think there's a point it's

530
00:25:08,958 --> 00:25:12,918
Speaker 1: probably about twenty five per year where the Mets are

531
00:25:12,918 --> 00:25:15,078
Speaker 1: out if it gets any place beyond that. So it's

532
00:25:15,158 --> 00:25:18,678
Speaker 1: going to be interesting to see how Pete Alonzo, how

533
00:25:18,758 --> 00:25:21,718
Speaker 1: his market develops. Here's the comp I've got for you, Joe,

534
00:25:22,038 --> 00:25:24,598
Speaker 1: It's Ryan Howard. Peter Alons is a lot to me

535
00:25:24,758 --> 00:25:28,358
Speaker 1: like Ryan Howard, game changing power bet what else are

536
00:25:28,398 --> 00:25:30,678
Speaker 1: you getting? You're not getting base running, you're not getting defense,

537
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:33,638
Speaker 1: doesn't take a ton of walks, so the on base

538
00:25:33,638 --> 00:25:36,998
Speaker 1: percentage is not going to be really high. Brian Howard

539
00:25:37,158 --> 00:25:39,478
Speaker 1: was had a great career, there's no question about that,

540
00:25:39,798 --> 00:25:41,838
Speaker 1: but he made his last All Star Game at thirty.

541
00:25:42,518 --> 00:25:44,758
Speaker 1: In his last five years from age thirty two to

542
00:25:44,838 --> 00:25:48,558
Speaker 1: thirty six, he hit two twenty six and average twenty

543
00:25:48,558 --> 00:25:50,718
Speaker 1: one home runs a year. I mean that to me

544
00:25:50,838 --> 00:25:53,238
Speaker 1: is the comp. Not saying that's the future of pet Alonzo,

545
00:25:53,278 --> 00:25:56,198
Speaker 1: but he's that type of player where you're betting on

546
00:25:56,398 --> 00:25:57,838
Speaker 1: slug lasting a long time.

547
00:25:58,198 --> 00:26:00,478
Speaker 2: Here makes me think so many different things. First of all,

548
00:26:00,558 --> 00:26:03,478
Speaker 2: I'd like to know I don't know, Pete Alonzo, what's

549
00:26:03,518 --> 00:26:05,838
Speaker 2: the what are the priorities for him and his family

550
00:26:05,878 --> 00:26:06,878
Speaker 2: going through this offseason?

551
00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:08,918
Speaker 3: Is it money or winning? I don't know.

552
00:26:09,598 --> 00:26:13,118
Speaker 2: It could just be money over ver winning. I just

553
00:26:13,158 --> 00:26:15,278
Speaker 2: don't know the fellow well enough. I had thought about this.

554
00:26:15,318 --> 00:26:18,038
Speaker 2: Somebody asked me, one of my my nephew asked me recently,

555
00:26:18,038 --> 00:26:20,878
Speaker 2: what about Alonzo? And I said, quite frankly, I think

556
00:26:20,878 --> 00:26:22,358
Speaker 2: he's the kind of guy that might end up with

557
00:26:22,398 --> 00:26:24,358
Speaker 2: the Angels. I mean, this is the perfect kind of

558
00:26:24,358 --> 00:26:26,598
Speaker 2: a guy for the Angels to overpay, depending on where

559
00:26:26,638 --> 00:26:28,958
Speaker 2: they think they're at, you know, building wise. I know

560
00:26:29,358 --> 00:26:31,478
Speaker 2: they have a lot of expectations going to this year,

561
00:26:32,518 --> 00:26:34,878
Speaker 2: but a team like that may give him the money

562
00:26:34,878 --> 00:26:37,998
Speaker 2: that he's looking for and be the veteran presence and

563
00:26:38,078 --> 00:26:42,238
Speaker 2: the power that they need because it's the otherwise. I mean,

564
00:26:42,278 --> 00:26:43,878
Speaker 2: the kid at first based there.

565
00:26:45,438 --> 00:26:49,318
Speaker 1: Shanuell, Yeahuel, Yeah, he's basically to me, he's Dave Maggoton.

566
00:26:49,678 --> 00:26:52,278
Speaker 1: He's not going to hit for power exactly the best.

567
00:26:52,438 --> 00:26:53,718
Speaker 1: That's about it, right.

568
00:26:53,838 --> 00:26:55,758
Speaker 2: So I thought about that, and I don't know how

569
00:26:55,798 --> 00:26:57,718
Speaker 2: aggressive Perry is going to be this year with exactly

570
00:26:57,718 --> 00:26:58,878
Speaker 2: what they think of themselves.

571
00:26:59,158 --> 00:27:00,438
Speaker 3: But you know what I like.

572
00:27:00,558 --> 00:27:02,558
Speaker 2: I like to shortstop a lot, I like need a lot,

573
00:27:02,598 --> 00:27:05,358
Speaker 2: I like to catch her a lot. Uh, there's there's

574
00:27:05,358 --> 00:27:07,398
Speaker 2: some guys I like. I still have Taylor word out

575
00:27:07,398 --> 00:27:10,358
Speaker 2: there a lot. So there's there's some nice pieces within

576
00:27:10,398 --> 00:27:12,958
Speaker 2: that group. So I just thought a guy like Alonzo

577
00:27:13,438 --> 00:27:15,238
Speaker 2: that might be where he's gonna get the money's looking

578
00:27:15,278 --> 00:27:16,798
Speaker 2: for because they need something like that.

579
00:27:16,838 --> 00:27:18,358
Speaker 3: They need that kind of pop in the middle.

580
00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:21,918
Speaker 2: They need that kind of stability which you're talking about

581
00:27:21,918 --> 00:27:24,238
Speaker 2: with the defensively, Yes, I'm always concerned about that. I

582
00:27:24,238 --> 00:27:26,678
Speaker 2: want a first base when that helps my infielders as

583
00:27:26,758 --> 00:27:29,358
Speaker 2: much as possible. But thinking it all the way through,

584
00:27:29,598 --> 00:27:31,838
Speaker 2: what is he after money or winning? And I think

585
00:27:31,878 --> 00:27:33,998
Speaker 2: that may have something to do with where he ends up.

586
00:27:34,158 --> 00:27:35,958
Speaker 1: That's a good call on the Angels, Joe. I had

587
00:27:35,998 --> 00:27:38,038
Speaker 1: not thought about that. But when you start looking at

588
00:27:38,038 --> 00:27:41,358
Speaker 1: the tea leaves, they gave up on Griffin Canning, the

589
00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:45,038
Speaker 1: young pitcher, and traded him for Jorges Solaire, who the

590
00:27:45,078 --> 00:27:48,478
Speaker 1: Braves like. The Braves needed to dump him. It just

591
00:27:48,758 --> 00:27:51,238
Speaker 1: it was just duplication on Marcelo Zuna. You can't have

592
00:27:51,278 --> 00:27:54,838
Speaker 1: two d h's, and the Angels took him off their

593
00:27:54,838 --> 00:27:57,758
Speaker 1: hands and gave up. You know, Listen, has Gryffin Canning

594
00:27:57,798 --> 00:27:59,878
Speaker 1: been a great major league pitcher? No, but he's shown

595
00:27:59,958 --> 00:28:02,678
Speaker 1: flashes of being a good major league pitcher. A guy's

596
00:28:02,678 --> 00:28:05,398
Speaker 1: gonna take the ball, a little bit of a head scratcher,

597
00:28:05,518 --> 00:28:07,838
Speaker 1: but that's, as you know, been the Angels way to

598
00:28:07,878 --> 00:28:11,598
Speaker 1: go after some big names and veteran players and hope

599
00:28:11,598 --> 00:28:12,558
Speaker 1: that they're going to rebound.

600
00:28:13,598 --> 00:28:16,478
Speaker 2: I love Griffin Canny. I like him as a person

601
00:28:16,518 --> 00:28:20,758
Speaker 2: a lot. He's a great athlete. I'm curious how he

602
00:28:20,878 --> 00:28:22,638
Speaker 2: ends up with the Braves because they've done a nice

603
00:28:22,678 --> 00:28:27,598
Speaker 2: job resurrecting some guys. I had Jesse Chavez with the Angels,

604
00:28:27,998 --> 00:28:29,438
Speaker 2: I had with the Cubs, had him with the Angels.

605
00:28:29,478 --> 00:28:32,238
Speaker 2: They both sides really didn't love him as much as

606
00:28:32,278 --> 00:28:34,038
Speaker 2: I did. He goes to Atlanta, what does he doing?

607
00:28:34,078 --> 00:28:36,278
Speaker 2: Glaciers goes from the Angels to Atlanta, what does he do?

608
00:28:37,358 --> 00:28:40,518
Speaker 2: Other examples of different pitchers and players like when solet

609
00:28:40,558 --> 00:28:41,278
Speaker 2: when Georgie went there.

610
00:28:41,318 --> 00:28:42,158
Speaker 3: I've had Georgie.

611
00:28:42,278 --> 00:28:46,478
Speaker 2: He takes off Rosario. These guys take off. There's something

612
00:28:46,518 --> 00:28:49,638
Speaker 2: in the water down there too. I'm really curious because

613
00:28:49,638 --> 00:28:52,278
Speaker 2: Griff is a great athlete. He's got a nice mix

614
00:28:52,318 --> 00:28:54,798
Speaker 2: of pitches. The big thing about Griff I just left

615
00:28:54,838 --> 00:28:56,758
Speaker 2: to see his confidence build up. And although I thought

616
00:28:56,758 --> 00:28:59,278
Speaker 2: I saw more of that just watching him on TV.

617
00:28:59,958 --> 00:29:02,198
Speaker 2: But I'm curious the change the scenery might be good.

618
00:29:02,238 --> 00:29:05,958
Speaker 2: Southern California guy, you I get away from that environment.

619
00:29:05,958 --> 00:29:08,358
Speaker 2: Who knows who's seen him every day, calling him every day,

620
00:29:08,718 --> 00:29:11,038
Speaker 2: putting back, you know, doubt in his head every day.

621
00:29:11,558 --> 00:29:12,118
Speaker 3: I'm curious.

622
00:29:12,238 --> 00:29:14,718
Speaker 2: I I this this could be a really nice sign

623
00:29:14,798 --> 00:29:17,838
Speaker 2: for the for the Braves because Griff, you know, the

624
00:29:17,878 --> 00:29:20,158
Speaker 2: big thing with him is just you know, making that

625
00:29:20,238 --> 00:29:23,078
Speaker 2: one dumb mistake at the wrong time. But boy, when

626
00:29:23,078 --> 00:29:25,158
Speaker 2: this guy gets on a roll, he could be really good.

627
00:29:25,798 --> 00:29:28,158
Speaker 2: When he's spotting up his pitches. He's not overpowering, but

628
00:29:28,198 --> 00:29:30,438
Speaker 2: he's a nice array of different pitches and he is.

629
00:29:30,438 --> 00:29:31,878
Speaker 3: A superb athlete.

630
00:29:32,198 --> 00:29:35,038
Speaker 2: He's part of that UCLA group with Bauer and Cole

631
00:29:35,118 --> 00:29:36,558
Speaker 2: and of course Griff.

632
00:29:36,638 --> 00:29:37,838
Speaker 3: So I'm curious.

633
00:29:37,918 --> 00:29:39,398
Speaker 2: I think you're going to see I think they're going

634
00:29:39,438 --> 00:29:41,238
Speaker 2: to get the best out of him this year. I

635
00:29:41,238 --> 00:29:43,158
Speaker 2: think it's the right time for him to change the team,

636
00:29:43,478 --> 00:29:45,318
Speaker 2: and it's the right time for a new team to

637
00:29:45,358 --> 00:29:46,238
Speaker 2: have Griffin Canning.

638
00:29:46,518 --> 00:29:48,678
Speaker 1: That's a good call, Joe. I like that, especially given

639
00:29:48,678 --> 00:29:51,878
Speaker 1: Atlanta's track record with pitching. They've done a really good job.

640
00:29:51,918 --> 00:29:54,198
Speaker 1: And you know, look at Chris Sale in the year

641
00:29:54,198 --> 00:29:57,198
Speaker 1: that he had his first year in Atlanta. There's a

642
00:29:57,198 --> 00:30:00,718
Speaker 1: lot of examples there who guys have straightened out there

643
00:30:00,718 --> 00:30:03,398
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Really good coaching staff at the major league level,

644
00:30:03,398 --> 00:30:05,198
Speaker 1: and the player to elm and system in the minors.

645
00:30:05,798 --> 00:30:09,878
Speaker 1: By the way I mean starting pitching, Joe is it's

646
00:30:09,918 --> 00:30:12,278
Speaker 1: in demand. We know that. And you know, the Mets

647
00:30:12,318 --> 00:30:14,838
Speaker 1: hit pay dirt last year within the free agent market

648
00:30:14,878 --> 00:30:18,198
Speaker 1: with Luis Savarino and Sean Manaya. Now in they're back

649
00:30:18,238 --> 00:30:20,118
Speaker 1: on the free agent market and they're going to kill it.

650
00:30:20,598 --> 00:30:23,318
Speaker 1: The Royals did a nice job with Michael Waka and

651
00:30:23,398 --> 00:30:26,518
Speaker 1: Seth Lugo getting them on undervalued deals. They just re

652
00:30:26,678 --> 00:30:31,078
Speaker 1: signed Waka three years fifty one million dollars. So there

653
00:30:31,078 --> 00:30:34,118
Speaker 1: are guys out there, those veteran pitchers, you know, thirty

654
00:30:34,158 --> 00:30:37,518
Speaker 1: to thirty two, who can provide you innings or in demand,

655
00:30:37,798 --> 00:30:40,958
Speaker 1: which breeds brings me to Nick Martinez, who got a

656
00:30:41,038 --> 00:30:43,718
Speaker 1: qualifying offer from the Reds a little more than twenty

657
00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:47,158
Speaker 1: one million dollars. I like Martinez a lot. He's one

658
00:30:47,198 --> 00:30:49,558
Speaker 1: of these hybrid guys. He can start, he can relieve,

659
00:30:49,718 --> 00:30:52,078
Speaker 1: he has no problem going back and forth. It's a

660
00:30:52,158 --> 00:30:55,318
Speaker 1: very valuable guy. But for the Reds to say his

661
00:30:55,478 --> 00:30:58,478
Speaker 1: value was twenty one million dollars, that's more than what

662
00:30:58,518 --> 00:31:02,038
Speaker 1: the Royals are paying Michael Waka and even Nick Pavetta

663
00:31:02,078 --> 00:31:04,958
Speaker 1: getting a qualifying offer from the Boston Red Side, similar

664
00:31:04,958 --> 00:31:08,318
Speaker 1: type of picture to Martinez. Man. There's a value on

665
00:31:08,398 --> 00:31:11,118
Speaker 1: starting pitchers if you can find guys, especially who are

666
00:31:11,318 --> 00:31:14,158
Speaker 1: who are durable, and that's been the case for Nick Pavetta,

667
00:31:14,358 --> 00:31:17,238
Speaker 1: n Nick Martinez. I mean we're going to see the

668
00:31:17,278 --> 00:31:20,478
Speaker 1: starting pitching market explode this offseason. I think it's supply

669
00:31:20,558 --> 00:31:21,918
Speaker 1: and demand, Joe, no doubt.

670
00:31:21,958 --> 00:31:23,918
Speaker 2: I mean, you just don't turn over rocks and find

671
00:31:23,958 --> 00:31:26,118
Speaker 2: these guys, and they're going to get overpaid if they're decent,

672
00:31:26,238 --> 00:31:27,598
Speaker 2: and that's just the way it is.

673
00:31:28,078 --> 00:31:29,798
Speaker 3: They are difficult to find.

674
00:31:30,598 --> 00:31:32,198
Speaker 2: I think part of it would be a track record

675
00:31:32,278 --> 00:31:35,158
Speaker 2: of staying healthy, you know, track record of piling up

676
00:31:35,198 --> 00:31:37,038
Speaker 2: some innings. As you look at all these teams and

677
00:31:37,158 --> 00:31:39,558
Speaker 2: nobody takes up any innings anymore, and what do you

678
00:31:39,558 --> 00:31:42,358
Speaker 2: You just can't keep finding relief, good relief pictures that

679
00:31:42,438 --> 00:31:44,558
Speaker 2: stay well, and they're going to get you to the

680
00:31:44,638 --> 00:31:46,598
Speaker 2: dance on an annual basis, not just to the dance.

681
00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:48,078
Speaker 3: We get to the last.

682
00:31:47,878 --> 00:31:50,158
Speaker 2: Game of the year, and when it I think that

683
00:31:50,318 --> 00:31:53,838
Speaker 2: at some point we have to get the starting pitching

684
00:31:53,878 --> 00:31:56,798
Speaker 2: sanity back and start developing these guys in the min leagues.

685
00:31:56,838 --> 00:31:59,638
Speaker 2: And by that, I mean, you know, find these good arms.

686
00:31:59,678 --> 00:32:01,878
Speaker 2: That there's good arms out there, absolutely there are, but

687
00:32:01,958 --> 00:32:03,478
Speaker 2: then you got to take them to the minor leagues

688
00:32:03,478 --> 00:32:06,958
Speaker 2: and permit them to throw a hundred pitches or sometimes

689
00:32:06,958 --> 00:32:09,478
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten, and go the third time through

690
00:32:09,478 --> 00:32:12,038
Speaker 2: the batting order and have them understand, don't show that

691
00:32:12,078 --> 00:32:14,318
Speaker 2: your entire array. Don't blow it all out in the

692
00:32:14,318 --> 00:32:17,598
Speaker 2: first couple three innings. You know, there's ways to save

693
00:32:17,718 --> 00:32:19,398
Speaker 2: or keep things in your back pocket for the latter

694
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:21,758
Speaker 2: part of the game. I'd just like to see a

695
00:32:21,798 --> 00:32:26,238
Speaker 2: resurrection or renaissance regarding the signing and drafting of starting

696
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:30,518
Speaker 2: pitchers and then giving them opportunity to grow in the

697
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:31,478
Speaker 2: minor leagues and not.

698
00:32:31,518 --> 00:32:35,278
Speaker 3: Just rush them through. Everything is rushed. I mean, my god, we.

699
00:32:35,238 --> 00:32:39,518
Speaker 2: Microwave everything anymore. So it's a really good starting pitching

700
00:32:39,638 --> 00:32:42,478
Speaker 2: needs time. The problem with that is everybody's starting pitching.

701
00:32:42,558 --> 00:32:44,958
Speaker 2: Thus we're going to push them through more quickly. Okay,

702
00:32:46,118 --> 00:32:48,638
Speaker 2: I still believe that. I believe if I were to

703
00:32:48,678 --> 00:32:52,198
Speaker 2: run an organization, I would sign pitchers pitchers, pitchers pitchers,

704
00:32:52,598 --> 00:32:55,358
Speaker 2: and I would not hold them to this method of

705
00:32:55,558 --> 00:32:58,438
Speaker 2: injury prevention as opposed to pitching development.

706
00:32:58,838 --> 00:33:00,998
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of people in the Commissioner's office

707
00:33:00,998 --> 00:33:03,038
Speaker 1: who are behind you with those thoughts. Show they're doing

708
00:33:03,038 --> 00:33:05,518
Speaker 1: the best they can to try to re establish the

709
00:33:05,558 --> 00:33:08,438
Speaker 1: starting pitcher as an interval part of the game, a

710
00:33:08,558 --> 00:33:11,318
Speaker 1: drawing card, of course, there's no question about it. So

711
00:33:11,598 --> 00:33:15,518
Speaker 1: hopefully those days are ahead. In the meantime, we're going

712
00:33:15,598 --> 00:33:17,598
Speaker 1: to take a quick break when we come back, Joe,

713
00:33:17,958 --> 00:33:20,718
Speaker 1: I've got one more thought on lessons we've learned from

714
00:33:20,718 --> 00:33:23,558
Speaker 1: the World Series, and you might not like it, but

715
00:33:23,758 --> 00:33:26,358
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring it up anyway. And also, we've

716
00:33:26,358 --> 00:33:30,478
Speaker 1: talked on this podcast about sometimes looking to the past

717
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:35,718
Speaker 1: to move forward, that advancements in technology and analytics don't

718
00:33:35,758 --> 00:33:41,318
Speaker 1: always equate to improvement. I've got an example from outer

719
00:33:41,518 --> 00:33:44,518
Speaker 1: space that will prove that point. We'll talk about that

720
00:33:44,598 --> 00:33:58,758
Speaker 1: right after this Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe,

721
00:33:58,798 --> 00:34:01,918
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you heard this, that the Japanese

722
00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:06,038
Speaker 1: have invented a satellite that is made out of wood,

723
00:34:06,518 --> 00:34:11,038
Speaker 1: wood out of a magnolia tree. There's so much space

724
00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:14,038
Speaker 1: junk up there now, and you know a lot of

725
00:34:14,038 --> 00:34:18,318
Speaker 1: it falls back through the atmosphere, burns up and litters

726
00:34:18,318 --> 00:34:23,478
Speaker 1: our planet. That the Japanese actually invented a satellite made

727
00:34:23,518 --> 00:34:27,118
Speaker 1: of a magnolia tree. It's not that big, but it

728
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:29,638
Speaker 1: is a satellite and it's going up in space, and

729
00:34:30,278 --> 00:34:33,478
Speaker 1: you're thinking, how's that going to last? Well, there's no

730
00:34:33,558 --> 00:34:35,798
Speaker 1: water up there, there's no oxygen up there, so the

731
00:34:35,838 --> 00:34:38,118
Speaker 1: wood is not going to rot. And when it does

732
00:34:38,198 --> 00:34:41,118
Speaker 1: come back to Earth, guess what, it just burns. It

733
00:34:41,158 --> 00:34:44,638
Speaker 1: burns up. There's no litter to it. I hope this

734
00:34:44,718 --> 00:34:46,918
Speaker 1: thing works. I mean it's the first of its kind.

735
00:34:46,958 --> 00:34:49,638
Speaker 1: But I think it's a great example, Joe, that sometimes

736
00:34:49,678 --> 00:34:52,638
Speaker 1: we have to look behind us to see what's ahead.

737
00:34:52,838 --> 00:34:54,518
Speaker 3: You mean, things are better when they were worse.

738
00:34:56,198 --> 00:34:58,198
Speaker 1: Somebody very famous ones said that.

739
00:34:58,318 --> 00:35:02,078
Speaker 2: Yeah, Julian Frenzosi said that, I know this, and that's spectacular.

740
00:35:02,198 --> 00:35:06,398
Speaker 2: I never want to be to not be on board

741
00:35:06,438 --> 00:35:08,158
Speaker 2: with what's happening right now. Of course, Sam and was

742
00:35:08,158 --> 00:35:10,118
Speaker 2: a part of that new age thinking in the game

743
00:35:10,158 --> 00:35:12,198
Speaker 2: in the mid two thousands there, two thousand to two

744
00:35:12,238 --> 00:35:15,518
Speaker 2: thousand and ten, actually even before that. But there's so

745
00:35:15,518 --> 00:35:17,638
Speaker 2: many lessons to be learned from things that we had

746
00:35:17,678 --> 00:35:20,598
Speaker 2: done in the past. And you know, whether it's just

747
00:35:20,598 --> 00:35:23,278
Speaker 2: how we live in this situation, technology is going to

748
00:35:23,318 --> 00:35:26,958
Speaker 2: take a step backward, maybe forward, but no run away

749
00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:29,478
Speaker 2: from what we've learned. And don't just always think that

750
00:35:29,478 --> 00:35:31,678
Speaker 2: the word progress means it's going to be better. You know,

751
00:35:31,798 --> 00:35:35,038
Speaker 2: people sit around think up new things or to do

752
00:35:35,158 --> 00:35:38,878
Speaker 2: old things and new ways, and automatically, let's perceived that's

753
00:35:38,878 --> 00:35:41,198
Speaker 2: going to be better. As an example, and okay for me,

754
00:35:41,318 --> 00:35:43,438
Speaker 2: like the game of baseball, it's up. We've talked about this.

755
00:35:43,758 --> 00:35:46,518
Speaker 2: People keep talking about the game has changed. The game

756
00:35:46,598 --> 00:35:49,878
Speaker 2: hasn't changed, but the way it's perceived regarding those that

757
00:35:49,918 --> 00:35:52,478
Speaker 2: are running it has changed. Thus we think the game

758
00:35:52,518 --> 00:35:56,238
Speaker 2: has changed. It's still ninety feet, still sixty six inches.

759
00:35:56,278 --> 00:35:58,878
Speaker 2: The fences are pretty much the same. How Granted, the

760
00:35:58,878 --> 00:36:01,918
Speaker 2: players are bigger. There's bigger, stronger athletes out there, there's

761
00:36:01,958 --> 00:36:04,758
Speaker 2: no question about that. But does that necessarily mean the

762
00:36:04,798 --> 00:36:07,158
Speaker 2: game is a better product. Were lamenting in the fact

763
00:36:07,198 --> 00:36:09,958
Speaker 2: that nobody could bunt the fifth inning of the World Series,

764
00:36:09,998 --> 00:36:14,038
Speaker 2: the defense based running in general. Uh, nobody could pitch

765
00:36:14,078 --> 00:36:15,638
Speaker 2: the third time through the batting order. Does that mean

766
00:36:15,678 --> 00:36:18,878
Speaker 2: it's better? Is that really progress? I don't know you.

767
00:36:19,038 --> 00:36:21,398
Speaker 2: You you have new ideas, I'll grant you that, And

768
00:36:21,478 --> 00:36:24,958
Speaker 2: I'm all about new ideas. That's something I really spend

769
00:36:24,998 --> 00:36:27,118
Speaker 2: a lot of time as a young coach in the

770
00:36:27,158 --> 00:36:29,198
Speaker 2: eighties into the nineties and two thousands, Like I said,

771
00:36:29,478 --> 00:36:31,318
Speaker 2: thinking of better ways to do what we've already been doing,

772
00:36:31,318 --> 00:36:33,998
Speaker 2: more efficient ways that would give us an edge over

773
00:36:33,998 --> 00:36:36,758
Speaker 2: the next group. And that's true, and that's what everybody's

774
00:36:36,798 --> 00:36:38,878
Speaker 2: trying to do. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the

775
00:36:39,238 --> 00:36:41,398
Speaker 2: change all changes are better. There's got to be a

776
00:36:41,438 --> 00:36:46,358
Speaker 2: point of diminsigan returns that sets in for everything. So, yes,

777
00:36:46,638 --> 00:36:48,838
Speaker 2: I like tech, Yes I like numbers, I like all

778
00:36:48,918 --> 00:36:49,998
Speaker 2: that stuff, but don't.

779
00:36:49,838 --> 00:36:51,318
Speaker 3: Run away from tried and true.

780
00:36:52,558 --> 00:36:56,358
Speaker 2: I think we have and I when I when I,

781
00:36:56,398 --> 00:36:59,678
Speaker 2: when I hear that the game is different, the game

782
00:36:59,718 --> 00:37:02,878
Speaker 2: has changed, I don't I need more specifics than that.

783
00:37:02,958 --> 00:37:05,598
Speaker 2: I don't know the perceived by those running. It may

784
00:37:05,638 --> 00:37:07,598
Speaker 2: have changed, but is the game actually changed?

785
00:37:08,238 --> 00:37:11,638
Speaker 1: Which reminds me by the way that Ken Burns, great

786
00:37:11,718 --> 00:37:15,238
Speaker 1: American storyteller, has a new documentary coming out later this

787
00:37:15,318 --> 00:37:19,838
Speaker 1: month on Leonardo da Vinci. You don't think there's lessons

788
00:37:19,878 --> 00:37:23,798
Speaker 1: that we can take from Leo? Yeah, all these centuries later, Well,

789
00:37:23,798 --> 00:37:24,118
Speaker 1: he was.

790
00:37:24,078 --> 00:37:27,198
Speaker 2: All about he was about simplicity, he was about reducing things.

791
00:37:27,238 --> 00:37:29,758
Speaker 2: And it's one line that he had that I loved that.

792
00:37:29,838 --> 00:37:32,678
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, I just I'm not comparing myself

793
00:37:32,678 --> 00:37:36,358
Speaker 2: here now, folks, But I was a hitting coach. Sometimes

794
00:37:36,438 --> 00:37:39,158
Speaker 2: I would if I got too close to the hitter,

795
00:37:39,158 --> 00:37:41,358
Speaker 2: I couldn't see the flaws. So I'd have to like

796
00:37:41,398 --> 00:37:42,958
Speaker 2: get a little bit farther away, a little bit farther

797
00:37:42,998 --> 00:37:45,478
Speaker 2: away than things have become clearer. And he pretty much

798
00:37:45,518 --> 00:37:48,278
Speaker 2: talks about that that when you really, when things get confusing,

799
00:37:48,718 --> 00:37:50,678
Speaker 2: just back off a little bit, don't get so close

800
00:37:50,998 --> 00:37:52,518
Speaker 2: to whatever it is that you're trying to work on

801
00:37:52,598 --> 00:37:55,238
Speaker 2: right here, because then it does become confusing. That was

802
00:37:55,278 --> 00:37:57,398
Speaker 2: a hitting coach of mine. I would do that, or

803
00:37:57,438 --> 00:37:59,798
Speaker 2: I'd take my hat and I would take my hat

804
00:37:59,838 --> 00:38:02,158
Speaker 2: put in front of my face and those little holes

805
00:38:02,198 --> 00:38:03,958
Speaker 2: in the top of the hat to breathe on. I

806
00:38:03,958 --> 00:38:05,558
Speaker 2: would just look at my hitter through that hole in

807
00:38:05,558 --> 00:38:07,718
Speaker 2: the hatch, just so I could block out everything. Just

808
00:38:07,718 --> 00:38:10,358
Speaker 2: look at his hands, his legs, whatever I'm trying to

809
00:38:10,398 --> 00:38:13,958
Speaker 2: focus on, to simplify, make the task smaller as opposed

810
00:38:13,998 --> 00:38:17,398
Speaker 2: to larger. So everything I read about da Vinci, that

811
00:38:17,438 --> 00:38:20,238
Speaker 2: really that I loved. He was always looking to cull

812
00:38:20,278 --> 00:38:23,878
Speaker 2: it down and simplify it. And when you get too

813
00:38:23,918 --> 00:38:26,158
Speaker 2: close to your work, you grind on it too hard,

814
00:38:26,358 --> 00:38:27,838
Speaker 2: that might not be the right way to do it.

815
00:38:27,838 --> 00:38:30,078
Speaker 2: It might be wise to step away and get a

816
00:38:30,078 --> 00:38:30,998
Speaker 2: bigger picture of it.

817
00:38:31,278 --> 00:38:34,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait for that one. And I mentioned

818
00:38:34,438 --> 00:38:37,358
Speaker 1: Joe that there's one more lesson from the World Series

819
00:38:37,398 --> 00:38:40,238
Speaker 1: for me anyway that I will take away from this,

820
00:38:40,358 --> 00:38:41,958
Speaker 1: And I said, you might not want to hear it.

821
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:43,998
Speaker 1: Actually I don't like to hear it. But it's true.

822
00:38:44,558 --> 00:38:48,958
Speaker 1: The last five World Series champions have finished no lower

823
00:38:49,078 --> 00:38:52,918
Speaker 1: than fourth in the major leagues in home runs. What

824
00:38:52,958 --> 00:38:55,198
Speaker 1: does that tell you? It tells you that as much

825
00:38:55,238 --> 00:38:57,758
Speaker 1: as we love small ball, and we saw the way

826
00:38:57,758 --> 00:39:00,278
Speaker 1: the Dodgers executed at one of them in the World Series,

827
00:39:00,838 --> 00:39:03,318
Speaker 1: but as much as we love rallies and we love

828
00:39:03,398 --> 00:39:06,078
Speaker 1: what he hears Cardinals spraying the ball around the carpet

829
00:39:06,158 --> 00:39:09,078
Speaker 1: back in the eighties. The game right now is so

830
00:39:09,118 --> 00:39:11,758
Speaker 1: a few hits. You have to hit home runs to

831
00:39:11,798 --> 00:39:15,078
Speaker 1: be a World Series champion. I'm sorry, I'm waiting for

832
00:39:15,118 --> 00:39:17,558
Speaker 1: a team to come by to prove me wrong. But

833
00:39:17,678 --> 00:39:20,318
Speaker 1: where we're at now, pitching being as difficult as it

834
00:39:20,358 --> 00:39:23,758
Speaker 1: is to hit, you need power. So if I'm building

835
00:39:23,798 --> 00:39:26,158
Speaker 1: a team right now, yeah, I want speed. I want

836
00:39:26,158 --> 00:39:28,398
Speaker 1: to take advantage of the new rules for stolen bases

837
00:39:28,598 --> 00:39:31,358
Speaker 1: to encourage more running of the bases. Yes, I want

838
00:39:31,358 --> 00:39:33,758
Speaker 1: to go first to third. The Dodgers number one in

839
00:39:33,838 --> 00:39:36,598
Speaker 1: baseball taking the extra base this year. I'm not saying

840
00:39:36,598 --> 00:39:39,078
Speaker 1: those things are not important, but to me, to win

841
00:39:39,118 --> 00:39:42,118
Speaker 1: a championship, you have to have power.

842
00:39:42,838 --> 00:39:45,878
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, just trying to as I

843
00:39:45,918 --> 00:39:48,158
Speaker 2: was writing my notes as you said that. So I

844
00:39:48,278 --> 00:39:50,558
Speaker 2: understand what you say and it's true and accurate, But

845
00:39:50,558 --> 00:39:53,238
Speaker 2: how do we know who's teaching the rest of the game,

846
00:39:53,558 --> 00:39:56,998
Speaker 2: and who's emphasizing this other parts of the game, and

847
00:39:57,038 --> 00:40:00,438
Speaker 2: who's putting it into play, Who's who's pushing the envelope

848
00:40:00,598 --> 00:40:02,638
Speaker 2: with stealing bases, hit and run movement.

849
00:40:03,558 --> 00:40:05,158
Speaker 3: Just put the palm play with two strikes.

850
00:40:05,198 --> 00:40:08,438
Speaker 2: Who's teaching this, You're only teaching hitting home runs. That's

851
00:40:08,438 --> 00:40:10,198
Speaker 2: the only part of the game that's being emphasized. That's

852
00:40:10,198 --> 00:40:11,878
Speaker 2: the part of the game that's being compensated for.

853
00:40:12,558 --> 00:40:13,038
Speaker 3: That's it.

854
00:40:13,118 --> 00:40:15,558
Speaker 2: So you're right. What you said is absolutely true, and

855
00:40:15,598 --> 00:40:16,758
Speaker 2: it's I can't deny that.

856
00:40:17,198 --> 00:40:18,318
Speaker 3: But I want everything.

857
00:40:18,518 --> 00:40:20,758
Speaker 2: I want it all as a if I'm a GM,

858
00:40:20,838 --> 00:40:23,238
Speaker 2: an owner, a manager, or whatever, I want it all.

859
00:40:23,278 --> 00:40:24,718
Speaker 2: I want guys to put the ball with the wall,

860
00:40:24,718 --> 00:40:26,238
Speaker 2: but I also want guys to move the ball when

861
00:40:26,238 --> 00:40:28,878
Speaker 2: it's necessary. But you don't do that unless you teach

862
00:40:28,998 --> 00:40:33,198
Speaker 2: it daily, remind about it, and then compensate for it.

863
00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:35,238
Speaker 2: If you don't compensate for these things, you're not going

864
00:40:35,278 --> 00:40:36,638
Speaker 2: to get them. You're not going to get them because

865
00:40:36,638 --> 00:40:38,558
Speaker 2: even the little guy is going to try to hit

866
00:40:38,598 --> 00:40:40,118
Speaker 2: the ball over the fence. They're going to weigh so

867
00:40:40,158 --> 00:40:42,558
Speaker 2: many at bats trying to do that because nobody believes

868
00:40:42,558 --> 00:40:47,598
Speaker 2: this other part is necessary, accurate, or as a difference maker.

869
00:40:47,678 --> 00:40:48,518
Speaker 3: So get it.

870
00:40:48,638 --> 00:40:51,158
Speaker 2: But how do we know because nobody's actually even tried

871
00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:51,758
Speaker 2: to do it.

872
00:40:51,758 --> 00:40:53,678
Speaker 1: It's a good point, but I will give the Dodgers

873
00:40:53,678 --> 00:40:56,678
Speaker 1: credit because they're base coaches. I know, you know dono

874
00:40:56,758 --> 00:40:59,278
Speaker 1: Ebel really well, dono Abel and Clayton mccallough. They do

875
00:40:59,318 --> 00:41:02,998
Speaker 1: a great job breaking down opposing teams and how they

876
00:41:03,038 --> 00:41:05,238
Speaker 1: defend the running game, where the openings are, where the

877
00:41:05,238 --> 00:41:08,358
Speaker 1: tips are. The Dodgers pay a lot of attention to

878
00:41:08,398 --> 00:41:13,038
Speaker 1: the running game. Technically, the runners are really good at

879
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:15,478
Speaker 1: at turning corners, taking the extra base. I mentioned that

880
00:41:15,598 --> 00:41:18,998
Speaker 1: number one in baseball Otani being a DH this year,

881
00:41:19,078 --> 00:41:21,558
Speaker 1: was able to spend a lot of time on stealing

882
00:41:21,598 --> 00:41:24,718
Speaker 1: bases and studying the art of stealing bases. He's not

883
00:41:24,718 --> 00:41:26,998
Speaker 1: going to steal as many next year obviously now that

884
00:41:27,038 --> 00:41:29,758
Speaker 1: he won't be pitching again. But yeah, I think the

885
00:41:29,878 --> 00:41:33,398
Speaker 1: Dodgers are Listen, they're world champions, a good example of

886
00:41:33,398 --> 00:41:35,398
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. They do have it all, and

887
00:41:35,438 --> 00:41:38,278
Speaker 1: they do teach it all. They're a very athletic group.

888
00:41:38,358 --> 00:41:38,478
Speaker 2: You know.

889
00:41:38,638 --> 00:41:41,118
Speaker 1: The Dodgers sat down with their scouts before this World

890
00:41:41,118 --> 00:41:45,158
Speaker 1: Series when they broke down the New York Yankees, they said,

891
00:41:45,398 --> 00:41:48,278
Speaker 1: that's basically what they said is that's an unathletic team.

892
00:41:48,798 --> 00:41:51,398
Speaker 1: They don't take good primary leads, they don't take good

893
00:41:51,398 --> 00:41:54,478
Speaker 1: secondary leads, they don't take the extra base. You know,

894
00:41:54,638 --> 00:41:57,358
Speaker 1: the Dodgers are paying attention to those things, the world champions,

895
00:41:57,358 --> 00:42:00,038
Speaker 1: But you still have to have power. So I'm with you.

896
00:42:00,438 --> 00:42:02,518
Speaker 1: I want it all as well, but I can't be

897
00:42:02,598 --> 00:42:04,798
Speaker 1: ignorant to the fact that just having a team that

898
00:42:04,878 --> 00:42:06,558
Speaker 1: slaps the ball around the field, that's not going to

899
00:42:06,598 --> 00:42:07,238
Speaker 1: get it done.

900
00:42:07,398 --> 00:42:08,598
Speaker 3: I agree, I totally agree.

901
00:42:09,238 --> 00:42:12,118
Speaker 2: You were just describing the Oakland Athletics the moneyball era

902
00:42:12,358 --> 00:42:13,918
Speaker 2: right when I was doing.

903
00:42:13,758 --> 00:42:15,918
Speaker 3: Almost all the advanced scouting. I did that.

904
00:42:16,118 --> 00:42:18,278
Speaker 2: I mean, I had Matt Keel for a bit, we

905
00:42:18,358 --> 00:42:20,758
Speaker 2: had we had certain different guys at help, but I

906
00:42:20,838 --> 00:42:23,478
Speaker 2: had to put all that stuff together. The easiest team

907
00:42:23,518 --> 00:42:26,198
Speaker 2: to prep against was always Oakland because they didn't do anything.

908
00:42:26,438 --> 00:42:28,598
Speaker 2: There was nothing to prep against, so you could really

909
00:42:28,638 --> 00:42:30,478
Speaker 2: focus on what you wanted to focus on, which was

910
00:42:30,518 --> 00:42:33,358
Speaker 2: primarily or do I put my shortstop? And how do

911
00:42:33,438 --> 00:42:36,398
Speaker 2: I pitch to Hotten, which was don't everythink he set

912
00:42:36,438 --> 00:42:38,878
Speaker 2: up for a break a ball? As an example, Chavez, Yeah,

913
00:42:39,158 --> 00:42:41,958
Speaker 2: when Eric Chavez came up, his power had, weirdly was

914
00:42:41,998 --> 00:42:43,718
Speaker 2: down the left field line, on the left field side

915
00:42:43,718 --> 00:42:45,918
Speaker 2: of the field. See even with Yambie, But you had

916
00:42:45,958 --> 00:42:47,998
Speaker 2: all this time in the world to spend on that

917
00:42:48,118 --> 00:42:50,998
Speaker 2: kind of stuff because they didn't do anything else. When

918
00:42:51,038 --> 00:42:55,398
Speaker 2: the team is so one dimensional, to prep for them

919
00:42:55,518 --> 00:42:58,678
Speaker 2: is so much easier. When a team is multi dimensional,

920
00:42:58,798 --> 00:43:01,558
Speaker 2: like the Rays of two thousand and eight. That was

921
00:43:01,598 --> 00:43:05,278
Speaker 2: a tough team to work again, So just I had

922
00:43:05,318 --> 00:43:07,078
Speaker 2: Brian Butterfield as a coach. He was the guy that

923
00:43:07,118 --> 00:43:09,438
Speaker 2: did all that stuff for Toronto. He said, my god,

924
00:43:09,478 --> 00:43:11,158
Speaker 2: I hate it when we played you guys because our

925
00:43:11,198 --> 00:43:13,318
Speaker 2: meetings were so long because we had so much to

926
00:43:13,438 --> 00:43:16,358
Speaker 2: prep for and against. Stuff does not even consider how

927
00:43:16,358 --> 00:43:18,238
Speaker 2: do you quantify that. I'm just telling you it's true

928
00:43:18,478 --> 00:43:21,038
Speaker 2: when I have to worry as a manager about a

929
00:43:21,078 --> 00:43:24,118
Speaker 2: team that's going to do different things, for instance, like

930
00:43:24,158 --> 00:43:26,358
Speaker 2: stealing base because I used to be a big pitchout

931
00:43:26,398 --> 00:43:28,598
Speaker 2: guy for a bit. Eventually I got away from that

932
00:43:28,638 --> 00:43:30,878
Speaker 2: because nobody's really running anymore. They didn't even care at

933
00:43:30,918 --> 00:43:33,358
Speaker 2: that point. But when you get a team that's really

934
00:43:33,398 --> 00:43:37,278
Speaker 2: one dimensional, it's so much easier. In the dugout before

935
00:43:37,318 --> 00:43:39,158
Speaker 2: the game, in the dugout during the game, et cetera.

936
00:43:39,358 --> 00:43:41,558
Speaker 2: And that's what the Yankees are. They're easy. That's an

937
00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:43,998
Speaker 2: easy prep job. They spend all their time working on

938
00:43:44,038 --> 00:43:46,158
Speaker 2: Like you said, we're not going to pitch the Sota,

939
00:43:46,198 --> 00:43:48,438
Speaker 2: but the way Judge looks right now, we're going after Judge.

940
00:43:48,438 --> 00:43:50,798
Speaker 3: That was probably what the meeting was all about.

941
00:43:51,318 --> 00:43:54,278
Speaker 2: You have to consider what you believe to be important.

942
00:43:54,558 --> 00:43:57,078
Speaker 2: You do not everybody else. What you believe to be important.

943
00:43:57,438 --> 00:43:59,558
Speaker 2: How's this team going to win? The identity we want

944
00:43:59,558 --> 00:44:02,358
Speaker 2: for the Dodgers, the Yankees, the Cardinals, whomever our what

945
00:44:02,398 --> 00:44:04,438
Speaker 2: do I want our identity to be? And that's what

946
00:44:04,518 --> 00:44:07,598
Speaker 2: you emphasize. That's what your spring training is about. That's

947
00:44:07,638 --> 00:44:10,038
Speaker 2: what the little when you have a little meetings during

948
00:44:10,038 --> 00:44:12,598
Speaker 2: the season, as you're talking about the other team, don't

949
00:44:12,598 --> 00:44:15,598
Speaker 2: forget to reemphasize and talking about what we consider important.

950
00:44:16,518 --> 00:44:18,878
Speaker 2: Do it the first thing spring training, the thing that

951
00:44:18,918 --> 00:44:21,278
Speaker 2: you think is the most important. That's the first thing

952
00:44:21,318 --> 00:44:23,638
Speaker 2: you do every day you have practice in spring training.

953
00:44:23,878 --> 00:44:25,358
Speaker 2: You don't wait till the end of camp at the

954
00:44:25,438 --> 00:44:28,318
Speaker 2: end of the day when everybody's tired and non sexy stuff.

955
00:44:28,358 --> 00:44:31,038
Speaker 2: That's what has to happen early. So this is what

956
00:44:31,118 --> 00:44:33,638
Speaker 2: I believe. And everything you said about the Dodgers right

957
00:44:33,638 --> 00:44:35,318
Speaker 2: there was pretty cool, and they did win it all

958
00:44:35,518 --> 00:44:37,198
Speaker 2: because they had a combination of everything.

959
00:44:37,518 --> 00:44:39,598
Speaker 1: You had a bunch of hungry players too. I mean,

960
00:44:39,758 --> 00:44:42,278
Speaker 1: the Dodgers were never known as being, you know, a

961
00:44:42,358 --> 00:44:45,358
Speaker 1: rough and tumble group of fighters, and that's exactly what

962
00:44:45,398 --> 00:44:47,918
Speaker 1: this team was. Going back to facing elimination against San

963
00:44:47,998 --> 00:44:51,838
Speaker 1: Diego in Game four in the DS and picking each

964
00:44:51,838 --> 00:44:54,998
Speaker 1: other up when guys were hurt with true team effort.

965
00:44:55,078 --> 00:44:57,838
Speaker 1: Kudos to Dave Roberts and the Dodgers. And the World

966
00:44:57,918 --> 00:45:00,918
Speaker 1: Series ended with Walker Bueller on the mound. He became

967
00:45:01,038 --> 00:45:04,918
Speaker 1: the sixth pitcher to start and win a World Series

968
00:45:04,958 --> 00:45:09,798
Speaker 1: game and close the clincher. Joe, you are our Walker

969
00:45:09,838 --> 00:45:12,198
Speaker 1: Bueller around here. We're giving you the ball to close

970
00:45:12,238 --> 00:45:15,398
Speaker 1: once again. I don't know if you've got Leo da

971
00:45:15,478 --> 00:45:18,318
Speaker 1: Vinci lined up, but you always bring us home with

972
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:20,318
Speaker 1: words of wisdom. Who do you got today?

973
00:45:20,678 --> 00:45:23,278
Speaker 2: Well, today's election day too, So that was part of it.

974
00:45:23,318 --> 00:45:25,318
Speaker 2: And then part of it was like you're talking about

975
00:45:25,878 --> 00:45:28,838
Speaker 2: the way the Dodgers comported themselves during this whole time

976
00:45:28,878 --> 00:45:31,198
Speaker 2: and how they kind of like stepped out of character

977
00:45:31,238 --> 00:45:32,278
Speaker 2: and became something they were not.

978
00:45:33,518 --> 00:45:33,878
Speaker 3: Unity.

979
00:45:34,118 --> 00:45:36,238
Speaker 2: That's the most important thing, one of the most important

980
00:45:36,318 --> 00:45:38,318
Speaker 2: thoughts or concepts I have when I manage a team,

981
00:45:38,758 --> 00:45:44,598
Speaker 2: the meetings that I have, the overrushing philosophy, whatever you

982
00:45:44,598 --> 00:45:45,958
Speaker 2: want to call it. The culture you want to create

983
00:45:46,078 --> 00:45:49,518
Speaker 2: has to really revolve around unity, and I got so

984
00:45:49,638 --> 00:45:51,278
Speaker 2: many of these today. I didn't know where to go,

985
00:45:51,318 --> 00:45:54,638
Speaker 2: but I liked the couple I read Stephen Kobe Seven

986
00:45:54,638 --> 00:45:56,518
Speaker 2: Habits of Highly Effective People. I think that was in

987
00:45:56,558 --> 00:46:00,118
Speaker 2: the end of the eighties, and this is like, really,

988
00:46:00,198 --> 00:46:02,558
Speaker 2: I think encapsulates what's going on in the world today.

989
00:46:02,558 --> 00:46:02,878
Speaker 3: Strength.

990
00:46:03,278 --> 00:46:07,278
Speaker 2: Strength lies in differences, not in similarities. The ability to

991
00:46:07,678 --> 00:46:11,238
Speaker 2: have different opinions and accept them and then try to

992
00:46:11,558 --> 00:46:14,678
Speaker 2: come to conclusions and eventually we all say this is

993
00:46:14,718 --> 00:46:15,958
Speaker 2: what we're going to do, and you go out there

994
00:46:15,958 --> 00:46:19,038
Speaker 2: and you do this based on the group getting together

995
00:46:19,598 --> 00:46:23,318
Speaker 2: and culminating in the decision he started. There was differences

996
00:46:23,358 --> 00:46:26,158
Speaker 2: in the beginning. We had different thoughts whatever priorities, and

997
00:46:26,198 --> 00:46:29,558
Speaker 2: we talked about and eventually you galvanize. And there's something

998
00:46:29,598 --> 00:46:32,238
Speaker 2: that if you have a bunch of people that that

999
00:46:32,478 --> 00:46:35,558
Speaker 2: always are agreeing with you, always telling you that you're right,

1000
00:46:36,118 --> 00:46:39,758
Speaker 2: always playing, and that is so awful as a leader.

1001
00:46:39,838 --> 00:46:44,558
Speaker 2: As a manager, I loved my coaching staff and my

1002
00:46:44,638 --> 00:46:49,078
Speaker 2: coaches that would disagree, that would give me a different thought,

1003
00:46:49,198 --> 00:46:51,598
Speaker 2: That gave me something that you want or think. And

1004
00:46:51,718 --> 00:46:53,998
Speaker 2: then and then we would go over like I said.

1005
00:46:54,038 --> 00:46:58,598
Speaker 2: And then eventually, after you've had these meetings inside and

1006
00:46:58,638 --> 00:47:01,558
Speaker 2: you go outside in front of it, you show a unified.

1007
00:47:01,158 --> 00:47:02,158
Speaker 3: Group in front of everybody.

1008
00:47:02,318 --> 00:47:06,038
Speaker 2: Never wanted a coach to call out another coach in

1009
00:47:06,078 --> 00:47:09,518
Speaker 2: front of the group because they thought they didn't agree

1010
00:47:09,518 --> 00:47:12,718
Speaker 2: with what they were saying outside. I said, if you disagree,

1011
00:47:12,758 --> 00:47:15,198
Speaker 2: you keep it to yourself the moment we come inside,

1012
00:47:15,718 --> 00:47:19,038
Speaker 2: then you talk to this coach about what you disagreed with,

1013
00:47:19,278 --> 00:47:22,078
Speaker 2: but never show that in front of the group. So

1014
00:47:22,318 --> 00:47:25,078
Speaker 2: there you have to understand the differences. And there are

1015
00:47:25,118 --> 00:47:29,558
Speaker 2: country there's so many differences, and that's that's wonderful, I think.

1016
00:47:29,558 --> 00:47:31,878
Speaker 2: But now we have to come to some conclusions and unify.

1017
00:47:32,358 --> 00:47:35,838
Speaker 2: And that's that's it. In Churchill. When there is no

1018
00:47:35,958 --> 00:47:39,158
Speaker 2: enemy within, the enemy outside cannot hurt you, and there's

1019
00:47:39,158 --> 00:47:43,398
Speaker 2: no enemy within, and you get on one spoty cancer

1020
00:47:43,438 --> 00:47:47,318
Speaker 2: in a clubhouse, brother, it's all over. It's just fantastasizes

1021
00:47:47,678 --> 00:47:51,358
Speaker 2: and before you know it, it's just it's uncontrollable. So

1022
00:47:51,838 --> 00:47:54,518
Speaker 2: everything should be about unity right now. Although it's not

1023
00:47:55,598 --> 00:47:57,678
Speaker 2: so curious to see how this all plays out today.

1024
00:47:58,078 --> 00:47:58,598
Speaker 3: But we don't.

1025
00:47:58,718 --> 00:48:01,198
Speaker 2: We talk unity, but it's one of those things that

1026
00:48:01,518 --> 00:48:03,478
Speaker 2: it's become a very inexpensive word.

1027
00:48:03,518 --> 00:48:04,958
Speaker 3: Nobody believes it anymore.

1028
00:48:05,758 --> 00:48:07,638
Speaker 2: But that's something we really have to focus on if

1029
00:48:07,638 --> 00:48:09,798
Speaker 2: we're going to do this right. And of course if

1030
00:48:09,838 --> 00:48:13,358
Speaker 2: you're a major league organization, don't always want to be

1031
00:48:13,398 --> 00:48:15,998
Speaker 2: on the same page agreement wise, but eventually arrive on

1032
00:48:16,038 --> 00:48:16,598
Speaker 2: the same page.

1033
00:48:16,678 --> 00:48:19,438
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that, Joe. It's a great word, especially

1034
00:48:19,478 --> 00:48:20,078
Speaker 1: on this day.

1035
00:48:20,798 --> 00:48:21,158
Speaker 3: Unity.

1036
00:48:21,958 --> 00:48:25,238
Speaker 1: Let's always keep that in mind, but especially no matter

1037
00:48:25,278 --> 00:48:28,678
Speaker 1: what the result is, to always strive for that correct

1038
00:48:29,118 --> 00:48:31,398
Speaker 1: Well done as usual, Joe. We'll see you next time

1039
00:48:31,478 --> 00:48:32,238
Speaker 1: on the Book of Joe.

1040
00:48:32,398 --> 00:48:33,678
Speaker 3: Take care of brother, be well.