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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, I

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Speaker 1: have not told you this, but I'm using the podcast

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Speaker 1: for personal therapy. Okay, here's the thing that I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I've ever told you were not. Do you

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Speaker 1: know how there are certain words you just don't like. Sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of those words for me, and all of its

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Speaker 1: variations is kissing. Really, it grosses me out so bad,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know why I've never known this about you.

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Speaker 1: I will use any other synonym I could possibly come

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Speaker 1: up with, however, silly. I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's like the French word that denotes someone is going

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Speaker 1: to marry you that starts with the NS. I also

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Speaker 1: don't like that word at all, and I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: It's very strange. I'm not anti romance at all, but

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Speaker 1: I know clearly some very specific areas where I don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it, and this is one. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not a way to move in the world.

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Speaker 1: So you have to break these issues. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about kissing all day to day. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: very kissy kiss Kisserson. I read this thing in the

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Speaker 1: Smithsonian magazine in May and I have been thinking about

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Speaker 1: it ever since. And it was this article about a

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Speaker 1: woman who tried to get people to stop kissing, and

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Speaker 1: it's a great article, but I was like, there's more

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Speaker 1: to this, and I know it, and that article referenced

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Speaker 1: some of them more to this, but I just was like,

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Speaker 1: this is the weirdest thing. And it also, uh, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion of communicable diseases and people being

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Speaker 1: resistant and that seemed really really interesting to me in

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Speaker 1: our world we live in. Sure, but that is also

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Speaker 1: a difficult topic in the world we live in, and

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Speaker 1: this seemed like a nice way to kind of mirror

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Speaker 1: what we've all been living through for a while, right,

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Speaker 1: it's timely. We've been watching arguments about people taking steps

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Speaker 1: to ensure public health play out in terms of whether

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Speaker 1: or not they want to do that, if it infringes

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Speaker 1: on their desires, etcetera. Uh, here in the US and

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Speaker 1: in other parts of the world. That's been going on.

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Speaker 1: But this is an interesting way to kind of look

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Speaker 1: at a similar model that it had much less immediate

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Speaker 1: impact and it did not involve a pandemic. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about a woman named Imagine

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Speaker 1: Reckton and her Kiss not campaign. So in nineteen ten,

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Speaker 1: Emagene Reckton was at a lady's function and she had

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Speaker 1: this moment of inspiration that was brought on by revulsion.

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Speaker 1: Imagine was a mother of two teenage sons. Her husband,

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Speaker 1: Lewis Reckton, was a successful businessman who ran a company

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Speaker 1: that made woodworking machines. She was actually born Sultana Imagene

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Speaker 1: Fraser in eighteen fifty six, and she and Lewis had

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Speaker 1: met when they were both working for the Cordsman Machine company.

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Speaker 1: She was a stenographer and he was a bookkeeper, and

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Speaker 1: they got married in eighteen ninety. Yeah. She was actually

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Speaker 1: ten years older than her husband, which for some reason

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Speaker 1: I love. She was in her mid fifties when she

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Speaker 1: was attending this lady's function in question. There were dozens

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Speaker 1: of women at the event. We don't have an exact number,

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Speaker 1: but she mentions at least thirty or forty that were

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Speaker 1: in front of her as they were in a receiving

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Speaker 1: line to be greeted by the hostess, who graced each

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Speaker 1: attendee with a kiss on the cheek or even on

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Speaker 1: the lips in some cases. Imaging is generally characterized in

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Speaker 1: accounts of her in general and this event as someone

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Speaker 1: who was a bit of a germophobe, and as having

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Speaker 1: social anxiety. I don't know how much either of those

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Speaker 1: is true, but I could see where people got there.

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Speaker 1: This whole scene, though, made her livid. She did not

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Speaker 1: want to be kissed, and she found herself wishing that

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Speaker 1: there were some way out of such greetings that would

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Speaker 1: avoid appearing rude. For wishing to sidestep a social custom

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Speaker 1: Imageane set herself in an interview later that year, quote,

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Speaker 1: I was taught by my mother that kissing breeds disease,

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Speaker 1: and I always disliked it. I gotta say, I would

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Speaker 1: not really want to be in a receiving line where

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Speaker 1: either I was kissing everyone or I was being kissed

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Speaker 1: after someone had kissed everyone. I would not be down

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Speaker 1: with that anyway. So the idea came to her was

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Speaker 1: that a button could be worn that simply read kiss

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Speaker 1: not I've had some similar buttons on my body in

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Speaker 1: the last few years. Even if such a button existed,

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Speaker 1: those shouldn't know if people would understand it. So there

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Speaker 1: needed to be a campaign that would educate the public

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Speaker 1: on what this button meant, so that people could wear

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Speaker 1: it and be understood as wishing to opt out of

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Speaker 1: being hissed. We would recognize us today is a pretty

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Speaker 1: normal process of bodily autonomy or consent. In the early though,

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Speaker 1: this concept was met with some resistance. Any of the

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Speaker 1: social stress of it. Aside, Wreckton's deepest motivations came, she

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Speaker 1: would say, many many times, from the kiss being a

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Speaker 1: disease vector, although she did not use those words. She

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Speaker 1: saw though, that direct physical contact like that could easily

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Speaker 1: spread germs, and she thought that continuing to do things

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Speaker 1: like kiss as a casual social greeting it was just

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Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous. She was not wrong. Keep in mind that

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Speaker 1: scientists like Louis Pastor and Robert Coke, who identified the

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Speaker 1: bacteria responsible for tuberculosis, had been working on the concept

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Speaker 1: of germ theory in the last part of the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century and into the early twentieth century, So these matters

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Speaker 1: were known about, but they were still kind of in

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Speaker 1: the early years in terms of the public altering any

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Speaker 1: of their behaviors about it. Anti spitting campaigns had been

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Speaker 1: enacted in years before this, and there had been efforts

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Speaker 1: to educate people about the importance of personal hygiene, but

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Speaker 1: still in social gatherings, particularly in the middle and upper class,

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Speaker 1: it was really common for people to greet one another

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Speaker 1: with a kiss. Imagine Recton wanted to help spread the

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Speaker 1: word that it needed to stop if people really wanted

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Speaker 1: to stop the spread of disease. There is a whole

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Speaker 1: secondary element to this where racism and classism come into play,

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Speaker 1: where the priority to minimize physical contact was definitely a

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Speaker 1: way that people isolated themselves from other people that they

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Speaker 1: saw as other. A lot of the movement that already

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Speaker 1: existed regarding home and personal hygiene advice was kind of

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Speaker 1: aimed at keeping white, middle class and above households safe.

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Speaker 1: Those anti spitting campaigns that Tracy just mentioned, for example,

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Speaker 1: were intended to keep working classmen from spitting in public. Yes,

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Speaker 1: spitting in public is absolutely gross, but there was an

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Speaker 1: undercurrent of singling out poorer classes as being responsible for

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Speaker 1: dirt and disease and in separating themselves from minorities, immigrants,

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Speaker 1: and people of lower incomes. Middle and upper class social

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Speaker 1: circles kind of seemed to think they were not at

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Speaker 1: risk of disease transmission. Additionally, a lot of the advice

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Speaker 1: from health officials regarding what people needed to do to

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Speaker 1: be clean and to stop the spread of disease, these

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Speaker 1: are actions that were just not available to everyone's socioeconomically.

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Speaker 1: For example, isolating when sick is great advice and good practice,

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Speaker 1: but how was a person living in a tenement or

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Speaker 1: a multi family home supposed to do that? It just

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Speaker 1: wasn't possible. So the idea of lower classes being diseased

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Speaker 1: persistent because in some ways it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. If you were living in really close quarters,

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Speaker 1: was really easy for diseases to spread. Yes, so it's

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Speaker 1: stead of saying, hey, we should figure out a way

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Speaker 1: to improve the quality of life of everyone, the idea was,

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Speaker 1: let's just not talk to those people are going near

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Speaker 1: them like uh. In night the Philadelphia Dispatch to the

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Speaker 1: New York Harold syndicated a column about doctors who advocated

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Speaker 1: against kissing titled declares kiss Must Go. That particular article

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Speaker 1: was inspired by another article that when in the monthly

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Speaker 1: Cyclopedia and Medical Bulletin, which was called Kissing Its Evils

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Speaker 1: and Benefits That was written by Dr John V. Shoemaker.

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Speaker 1: Dr Shoemaker had apparently stated in his work that because

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Speaker 1: kissing involves the mouth, that makes it an easy path

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Speaker 1: for germs to travel to the stomach and lungs. In

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Speaker 1: the article from the New York Harold, another doctor weighed

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Speaker 1: in this was Dr Clara Scott, who's described as a

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Speaker 1: homeopathic physician. She states, quote, the number of diseases which

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Speaker 1: kissing causes is unbelievable to one who has not studied

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Speaker 1: the question. I firmly believe the day will come within

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Speaker 1: a generation when a formidable anti kissing movement will be established,

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Speaker 1: and when kissing practically will be confined to the lower classes,

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Speaker 1: the educated people having been brought to see the evils

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Speaker 1: of the habit. Next to the evil of kissing babies

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Speaker 1: comes the sweethearts kiss. This is one of the most

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Speaker 1: dangerous of all. Husband's kiss soon loses its fervency, but

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Speaker 1: the kiss of two sweethearts is the paradise of the

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Speaker 1: tuberculosis germ and the diph theory of germ and other

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Speaker 1: germs too numerous to mention. During the long intervals, while

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Speaker 1: the sweethearts kiss continues, one may imagine the various germs

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Speaker 1: rushing backward and forward with unholy glee. This is the

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Speaker 1: longest way to go. Don't don't have long makeout sessions,

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Speaker 1: y'all um. The Washington Times ran a much longer version

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Speaker 1: of that article, which included a quote from another and physician,

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Speaker 1: this one Dr Rachel S. Skadilski, and she took a

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Speaker 1: more moderate approach to this whole issue, stating, quote Dr

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Speaker 1: Shoemaker is right, but let's be practical. It is my

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Speaker 1: opinion that all unnecessary kissing, the kissing without real affection,

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Speaker 1: should be abolished. This would reduce the germ evil to

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Speaker 1: a minimum. So we'll talk more about this tug of

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Speaker 1: war that played out in the press in November of

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Speaker 1: night as anti kissing advocates and their detractors fought it

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Speaker 1: out publicly. First, though, we will pause or a sponsor break.

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Speaker 1: In response to that Washington Times article we mentioned. Right

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Speaker 1: before the break, another brief article titled an assault on

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Speaker 1: Kissing appeared in the Washington Post. That article starts by

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Speaker 1: quoting Dr Clara Scott, almost in her entirety from the

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Speaker 1: previous one, but it does not mention her by name.

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Speaker 1: It just calls her a female position and because her

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Speaker 1: quote opens the article. It kind of seems initially like

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Speaker 1: the write up is going to be in favor of

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Speaker 1: the anti kissing cause, but the rest of it essentially

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Speaker 1: tears down Scott's statement and says that quote, these pestiferous

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Speaker 1: discoveries of modern scientists male and female become more and

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Speaker 1: more intolerable. It goes on with the rather cringe e

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Speaker 1: proclamation that quote kissing is all right in proper circumstances,

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Speaker 1: and enjoyable even if the circumstances aren't quite as they

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Speaker 1: might be. I don't know what the intention or meaning

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Speaker 1: of that is, but it just sounded real ikey to me. Um.

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Speaker 1: The article then includes quotations of poetry by Lord Byron

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Speaker 1: and Tennyson to show how very culturally important kissing is,

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Speaker 1: and then concludes by saying, quote, scientists real and spurious

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Speaker 1: have run the germ theory into the ground. They make

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Speaker 1: themselves preposterous and arouse just resentment in the breast of

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Speaker 1: every right minded man and sweet lipped woman. The holiest,

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Speaker 1: sweetest memories of mankind cluster about kisses. The abolition of

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Speaker 1: kissing would mean the blotting out of happiness, And for

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Speaker 1: what to avoid? The imaginary onslaught of a puny imaginary germ.

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Speaker 1: Bah let kissing, thrive and let the germs look out

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Speaker 1: for themselves. I like the implication here that everyone wants

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Speaker 1: to kiss people. Uh, there are clearly people who feel

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Speaker 1: very much that that is there entire reason for living.

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Speaker 1: So yet another take on this was written by Ethel

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Speaker 1: Lloyd Patterson, who was an opinion journalist from New York,

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Speaker 1: noting in her article Kisses under Ban of Brains and

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Speaker 1: Quaker City that Dr Clara Scott was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: She claimed quote, so now we know what is the

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Speaker 1: matter with Philadelphia. For a long while, all of course,

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Speaker 1: we have all been aware that an indefinite gloom hung

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Speaker 1: over the Pennsylvania city, but we had scarcely attributed it

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Speaker 1: to a rush of brain to the head. But if

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Speaker 1: this is be true, and intelligence is really incompatible with osculation,

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Speaker 1: well then tis better to have lost your brains than

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Speaker 1: never to have kissed at all. Yet another physician, this one,

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Speaker 1: doctor Enrico Castelli, of New York City, was consulted for

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Speaker 1: his opinion on the matter for Patterson's article. His take

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Speaker 1: was quote, we physicians cannot expect to divert the course

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Speaker 1: of human nature. Our place is to fortify it as

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Speaker 1: far as we can against mishap. That is all we

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Speaker 1: can do. To say that we could, even if we wish,

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Speaker 1: to stop people who love each other from caressing one

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Speaker 1: another is utterly absurd. But from a purely scientific standpoint,

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Speaker 1: let me explain to you how little disease would actually

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Speaker 1: be prevented even if it were possible to place an

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Speaker 1: embargo upon osculation. I have made a special study of

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Speaker 1: acteria for over five years, and I have found that

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Speaker 1: practically every known germ is present in a dormant condition,

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Speaker 1: as one might say, in every human mouth. They are

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Speaker 1: taken into the lungs with every breath. Now, the reason

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Speaker 1: they do not develop is because the person is not

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Speaker 1: in the necessarily run down condition that affords them foothold.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say Dr Castelli maybe needed some help

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Speaker 1: from a bacteriologist. That's just my personal opinion on that one. Um.

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Speaker 1: He basically summed up his stance in additional comments as

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Speaker 1: being the world is covered in germs and you're ingesting

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Speaker 1: them all the time, So go ahead and kiss because quote,

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Speaker 1: science will never advance, can never advance to the point

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Speaker 1: where contact with bacteria can be avoided. This is kind

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Speaker 1: of one of the phases of the germ theory of disease,

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Speaker 1: where there are people who are like, yes, germs exist,

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Speaker 1: but they only make you sick if with a lot

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Speaker 1: of spurious qualifiers. Well, it's also that thing where there's

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Speaker 1: not really a distinction between like bacteria and vir Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you carry all the stuff all the time, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: my dude, no way, not exactly. So, Imaging Recton was

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Speaker 1: starting her social reform effort about kissing at a time

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Speaker 1: when there was already all this arguing about it. In

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Speaker 1: her living room in Cincinnati, Ohio. Mrs Recton launched an

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Speaker 1: umbrella organization for efforts, which was called the World's Health Organization.

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Speaker 1: This is not to be confused with the World Health Organization,

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Speaker 1: which was not founded until the World's Health Organization's pledge,

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Speaker 1: written by Imaging was quote. In order to encourage good

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Speaker 1: health and lessen the spread of consumption, I desire to

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Speaker 1: join the World's Health Organization, and hereby pledge myself to

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Speaker 1: discourage the custom of kissing on the lips whenever it

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Speaker 1: is in my power. It's interesting that this isn't a

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Speaker 1: pledge not to kiss. It was certainly implied, but this

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Speaker 1: pledge is a promise to discourage as from kissing. Once

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Speaker 1: the pledge was signed and sent back to Imagine's organization,

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Speaker 1: along with a nickel, person who sent it received their

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Speaker 1: kiss not button in return. So one of the things

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Speaker 1: that Imogene did to spread the word was to write

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Speaker 1: articles up and send them out to newspapers, and she

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Speaker 1: also gave interviews, and she got a lot of press.

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Speaker 1: Some of that press was fairly straightforward reporting on what

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Speaker 1: she was doing, but some of it definitely has a

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Speaker 1: mocking tone. But for a brief time, regardless of which

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Speaker 1: flavor you were getting, her message was being spread wide

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Speaker 1: and far. In June of nineteen ten, the San Francisco

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Speaker 1: Sunday Call covered the formation of the organization in a

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Speaker 1: picture heavy article titled to Kiss or Not to Kiss.

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Speaker 1: That article opens by saying, quote, after years of sporadic crusading,

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Speaker 1: a non kissing organization has been started in Cincinnati, Ohio

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Speaker 1: that is meeting with surprising success. This article states that,

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Speaker 1: acording to the society's president, there are more than a

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Speaker 1: thousand members and that the numbers are steadily growing, expecting

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Speaker 1: to have members in every US city within two years.

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Speaker 1: As an asside on that number, there were articles circulating

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Speaker 1: at the same time that said that there were five

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Speaker 1: thousand members already. Some of this might have been due

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Speaker 1: to papers picking up the story at different times, but

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Speaker 1: there were papers running in June and July of with

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Speaker 1: each of these numbers. That makes it all a little

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Speaker 1: bit confusing. The number is also just what imaging provided.

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Speaker 1: It does not seem like it was sourced from anything

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Speaker 1: other than what she said. We're going to run into

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Speaker 1: a lot of that as we go for it. Just

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Speaker 1: heads up this right up also described imagine stating quote.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Mrs John Recton. She is a rather

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Speaker 1: attractive looking, dark haired, brown eyed little woman of about

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Speaker 1: thirty five years who, long before marriage, was diametrically opposed

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Speaker 1: to promiscuous kissing. She began to preach her doctrine to

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Speaker 1: her husband, one him to her way of thinking, and

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Speaker 1: then started on her friends, with such success that the

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Speaker 1: World's Health Organization was founded and she was enthusiastically elected

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Speaker 1: its first president. As a note here, if you have

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Speaker 1: been listening and doing math, her husband's name does not

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Speaker 1: appeared to have been John at all. It was Lewis.

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Speaker 1: But she was also in her fifties, so uh not

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Speaker 1: thirty five. This article clearly pretty light on fact checking.

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Speaker 1: So now to address a question you may have. At

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Speaker 1: this point, it is not clear if Imagine and her

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Speaker 1: husband kissed. That may sounds unusual, probably because it's such

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Speaker 1: an intimate thing to ask a married couple. It seems

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Speaker 1: like a lot of reporters just came to their own

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Speaker 1: conclusions about this and then went to print with them.

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Speaker 1: Some rite ups during Imagine's relatively brief crusade state that

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Speaker 1: she did not kiss even her husband, and others like

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Speaker 1: the one we just read, are more careful to frame

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Speaker 1: her position as being against promiscuous kissing, which makes it

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Speaker 1: sound like she would not have been opposed to a

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Speaker 1: smooch with her husband, just not maybe a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of other people. Holly never came across a definitive statement

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Speaker 1: from Imaging wrecked in herself on this matter, so we

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Speaker 1: don't really know she did state that quote. It is

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Speaker 1: impossible to get lovers and sweethearts to realize that they

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Speaker 1: must not kiss each other on the lips. Kind of

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Speaker 1: makes it sound like she was against kissing on the

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Speaker 1: lips in all contexts, but I mean those romantic scenarios

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Speaker 1: she just described there that shouldn't list marriage as one

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Speaker 1: of them. Your guess is really as good as ours

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Speaker 1: on this. Yeah. I think that's one of the reasons that,

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Speaker 1: um her the story did get so much coverage, is

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Speaker 1: that people like to speculate on whether or not she

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Speaker 1: had like a marriage with no affection. Um it's sold

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Speaker 1: papers just the bottom line. On that same note, we

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Speaker 1: should point out not all of the will in the

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Speaker 1: anti kissing movement were against romantic kissing, even like by

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Speaker 1: couching it as saying listen, that's not gonna happen. Uh,

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Speaker 1: presumably they intended that to be with consenting parties involved.

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Speaker 1: Some of these people were exclusively focused on the kissing

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Speaker 1: of babies and children. Babies, of course, do not have

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Speaker 1: fully developed immune system, so there is legitimate danger in

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Speaker 1: having random people kissed them, particularly on the lips, which

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Speaker 1: was apparently pretty common practice in the early twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: This is gross to me for so many reasons, like

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Speaker 1: strangers would kiss babies yuck. No, but also babies are

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Speaker 1: druly messes and I wouldn't want to kiss them anyway,

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Speaker 1: No shade to your baby. They're all like that. I

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Speaker 1: was like, that as a baby, just the whole thing

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Speaker 1: seems very gross to me. Um kissing of young children,

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Speaker 1: of course, was also problematic, both because it's spread disease

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Speaker 1: and also because a child simply may not want it.

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Speaker 1: So there were people both within and without Imagings World's

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Speaker 1: Health Organization who really were only advocating for refraining from

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Speaker 1: kissing kids. Next up, we will discuss Emmagene Reckton's month

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Speaker 1: by month plan to eradicate kissing and thus she thought

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Speaker 1: disease first. That we will pause for another sponsor break

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Speaker 1: in that to Kiss or Not Kiss article that we

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Speaker 1: were talking about, Wreckton shared her month by month plan

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Speaker 1: for the organization to try to expand the group's numbers

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Speaker 1: and reduce the spread of germs through kissing. Because this

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Speaker 1: went to press in June, her first targeted group was

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Speaker 1: young brides who were having summer weddings. Reckton stated, quote,

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Speaker 1: the custom of kissing a bride on her wedding day

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Speaker 1: is a most dangerous one. To stamp out this evil

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Speaker 1: at once would be to accomplish the impossible. But we

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Speaker 1: have made the start and are much encouraged. She reported

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Speaker 1: that seventy five brides had joined her group and agreed

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Speaker 1: to wear their kiss buttons on their wedding days, and

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Speaker 1: when Imogene was pressed about whether she was suggesting that

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Speaker 1: the newly weds not kiss, she specified, quote, I mean

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Speaker 1: the relatives and wedding guests should not kiss the bride

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Speaker 1: and subject her to risk of getting consumption. Following the

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Speaker 1: summer brides, Redkins August goal was to get parents on board,

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Speaker 1: including not kissing their own babies. We're not parents. We

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Speaker 1: can imagine this would have been a hard sell for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. I will say in more recent

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Speaker 1: eras there's like a whole conversation about like parents kissing

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Speaker 1: their babies being a part of their babies developing their

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Speaker 1: immune system, etcetera. Just as a note that September target shifted,

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Speaker 1: unsurprisingly to teachers, with the hope that they would not

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Speaker 1: only pledge not to kiss the children in their care,

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Speaker 1: but they would also explain the need to abstain for

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Speaker 1: i'm kissing in their classes as well. In October, the

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Speaker 1: organization planned to reach out to street cleaners and laundresses.

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Speaker 1: The logic there was that these were occupations that often

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Speaker 1: came in contact with a lot of people's potential germs,

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Speaker 1: so they would be inherently invested in spreading this anti

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Speaker 1: kissing message. November would be all about women's groups, including

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Speaker 1: church clubs, literary clubs, and game groups, and the hope

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Speaker 1: there was that they would all start to wear their

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Speaker 1: buttons to gatherings as a way to normalize social events

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Speaker 1: without kissing. Is a greeting for December. You might be

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Speaker 1: thinking that family gatherings might have been Imogen's game plan,

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Speaker 1: but nope, weddings again, since winter weddings meant big gatherings,

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Speaker 1: it was essentially a repeat of her July plan. Erect

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Speaker 1: and is also quoted in this article is saying quote,

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Speaker 1: my life for just one kiss sounds thrilling in romance

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Speaker 1: and poetry, but disillusion is found in the hospitals whence

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Speaker 1: lovers follow each other to the grave in a few

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Speaker 1: short months. There are quite some other women on the matter,

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Speaker 1: which so that most of them are really only concerned

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Speaker 1: about children and babies. Mrs Philip M. Walkenberg said that quote,

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Speaker 1: I don't think life would be worth living without kisses.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I don't believe in Promiskey was kissing, which

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Speaker 1: sheepens the value of the kiss. But it is silly

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00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: to talk about discouraging all kissing. Miss Albert Hill, quoted

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Speaker 1: in the article, made the case that telling people not

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Speaker 1: to do something just made it more alluring, but she

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00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: also mentions that she was raised in Japan, where people

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Speaker 1: simply quote don't do such things. Mrs bel de Rivera

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Speaker 1: of New York thought organizing anti kissing drives was simply silly.

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00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: Mrs William Cumming story admitted she hadn't really thought about

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00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: it much, and Mrs Harriet J. Wood thought, quote, the

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00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: practice of kissing is altogether too extensive. She qualified that

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Speaker 1: by adding that parents should absolutely be able to kiss

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Speaker 1: their children, and that young men and young women quote

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00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: are old enough to look after themselves. Although my favorite

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Speaker 1: response from this gathering of quotes from women was from

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Speaker 1: a Mrs Ida Husted Harper, who told the inquiring reporter quote,

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00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: if women could vote, they wouldn't be worrying their heads

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00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: about being kissed. This is like the get off the internet.

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00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: We have bigger fish to ryan. Get out of my face.

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00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: So this full page article also includes images of couples

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Speaker 1: kissing with captions that definitely seem intended to mock the

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Speaker 1: anti kissing cause. So things like this may mean tuberculosis,

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00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: and my, what a chance for those awful germs. These

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00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: are editorial choices that are worth examining, because though just

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Speaker 1: about all of these women that were quoted, we're not

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Speaker 1: really worried about romantic kissing, that was what the paper

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00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: chose to focus on. For all the visuals, there's just

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00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: not a single image of a baby or a child

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Speaker 1: other than kind of a menacing looking cupid. That cupid

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00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: scares me. It's not cute. Sorry to throw that illustrator

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Speaker 1: into the bus, but that cute it is frightening. Um.

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00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: The same month that that huge spread was published, the

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00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: Washington Post consulted a physician named Dr Harvey W. Wiley,

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00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: chief of the Bureau of Chemistry at the Department of Agriculture,

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Speaker 1: to get his thoughts on kissing and germ spread. His

431
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: answers are kind of salty, and they're dismissive of Recton's

432
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: group and its efforts. He told the Post that he

433
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: had never seen a single instance of kissing being the

434
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: cause of transmission of a deadly disease. He stated, quote,

435
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: a society for the prevention of kissing is nothing less

436
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: than a society for the prevention of pleasure. Just imagine

437
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: yourself in a kissless courtship. Can you contemplate a more

438
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: uninteresting predicament. I have feelings about Dr Wiley, and they're

439
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: not kind. Yeah, I want to introduce him to be

440
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: like the married a sexual people. I know I'm not

441
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: saying no a sexual people ever kiss, but you know,

442
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: not necessarily a prerequisite in every relationship. Well, he's also

443
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: if you read more of that, it sounds a most

444
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: a little predatory and yucky, of like men should just

445
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: be able to kiss women, and it's like, oh, Dr

446
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: whiley yuck. I don't. I don't stick to the Department

447
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: of Agriculture, please thank you. Yeah. Anyway, During the summer

448
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: of nineteen eleven, Immagene pushed hard for teachers to pledge

449
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: that they would not kiss their students when school returned

450
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: in the fall. This is not salacious. She was talking

451
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: specifically about teachers of really young children, like kindergarteners, and

452
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: when she spoke to the press on this matter, Mrs

453
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: Rerecton was quoted as saying, quote, teachers and pupils will

454
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: both benefit by it. A sweet faced kindergarten teacher kissed

455
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: her pupils goodbye, saying I'll take a good rest this summer.

456
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: In the fall, I'll give you more games. They tire

457
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: me now. She died of consumption in the middle of August.

458
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Were the children exposed to consumption? Had the disease been

459
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: dip theory or smallpox, would they have been exposed to it.

460
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: Since you cannot quarantine a consumption or vaccinate against consumption,

461
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: how will we control it? It takes whole families to

462
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: the grave, teach the little ones to quarantine their mouths. Okay,

463
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: So imaging, as we've been saying, was not wrong that

464
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: a teacher kissing children could be a disease vector. But

465
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: she also seemed to really like to tell these stories

466
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: and no verifiable sources, which could not have helped her campaign.

467
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: In the case of that example of the teacher who

468
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: died of consumption, she doesn't even give a vague location,

469
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: and one would think if there were a known potential outbreak,

470
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: she might want to use her platform as an advocate

471
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: being interviewed by a newspaper to alert the community involved.

472
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: She also, in that same article quotes a prominent physician,

473
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: but she gives no name, and according to this anonymous

474
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: physician quote, if one of these buttons could be put

475
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: upon the bib of every newborn baby and worn till

476
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: the child is eighty years old. There would be more

477
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: old people than there are today. That particular right up

478
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: also includes a favorite quote of Emergy, who was quoting

479
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: someone else. She says that the group's health officers motto

480
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: is quote, kiss only your enemies. I want that on

481
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: a shirt, kiss over enemies. It sounds uh wonderfully evil. Uh.

482
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: Imaging always had this steady stream of information to share

483
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: that had legitimate scientific merit, But again she also always

484
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: went to extremes to make her point. Take this story

485
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: that she told in nineteen quote, I know of one

486
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: instance in a suburb of this city where a young

487
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: woman was a sufferer from tuberculosis. The young man who

488
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: called on her was well and strong. He became infected

489
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: during the courtship, and our investigation shows that the infection

490
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: was caused by kissing. They both died before the dates

491
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: set for the wedding. Again, no specifics, no other records

492
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: seems to appear of these people, and as a consequence,

493
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: the press really started to skewer Imaging with these outlandish

494
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: cartoons that sometimes went along with these stories that featured

495
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: things like all manner of contraptions to cover young women's

496
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: faces and make sure that they could not be kissed.

497
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven, she gave this statement quote in the

498
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: case of smallpox, the disease shows quickly after infection has

499
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: taken place, but in consumption it does not. Therefore, do

500
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: not kiss anyone. You are not sure by looking at

501
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: a person whether he has consumption or not. He may

502
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: not know it himself. Sometimes he is able to attend

503
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: to his regular duties till the last. If with the

504
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: expenditure of thirty million dollars as was spent last year

505
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: to conquer consumption, to say nothing of the heartaches for

506
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: the left ones gone forever, we could say we are

507
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: now rid of the disease, then the crusade against it

508
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: would die a natural death. But with all this expenditure,

509
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: we are still in the midst of it. Okay, that's

510
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: thirty million dollar number. I don't know where she got it.

511
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: I could not find a single source for it. One

512
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: outlet actually seemed to doubt her printed it as thirty

513
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: thousand dollars um. All of the others that I saw,

514
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: and there were quite a few, had the thirty million

515
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: dollar number but again I don't know where she pulled

516
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: that from. And if you look at national mortality statistics

517
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: for the US for the years from nineteen o six

518
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: to nineteen ten, yes, the number of tuberculosis deaths went

519
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: up from seventy five thousand, six hundred forty eight reported

520
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen o six to eighty six thousand, three hundred

521
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: nine reported in nineteen ten, And numbers like that may

522
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: have certainly helped Recton's case, But that rise is actually

523
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: reflective of a much larger reporting pool rather than a

524
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: true rising cases. So if you look at the death

525
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: rates from tuberculosis per one hundred thousand people, there's actually

526
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: a pretty significant drop in that period. In nineteen o six,

527
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: one thousand, five hundred sixty seven point five people per

528
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand died of tuberculosis, and in nineteen ten

529
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: that number had dropped to one thousand, four hundred ninety

530
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: five point eight. Obviously, they are not point five and

531
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: point eight of people, but it's the numbers game. So

532
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: that rate was actually dropping already, presumably from greater efforts

533
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: that had been made through public health initiatives. One thing

534
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: that merits considering is the ways in which Imogene Recton's

535
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: efforts were treated by the public and the press and

536
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: even medical professionals. She's kind of relegated to the role

537
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: of kind of a nervous kuk. Historian Peter C. Baldwin

538
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: wrote a paper that was published earlier this year in

539
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: the Journal of Social History, and he makes the case

540
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: that Reckton was also advocating for women to be able

541
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: to deny unwanted romantic attention from men by wearing the

542
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: kiss not button, So the served as kind of a safeguard.

543
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: Could it stop a man from overpowering a woman, of

544
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: course not, but it also sent a clear signal at

545
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: a time when women didn't really have a lot of

546
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: options to do so that we're socially acceptable. The other

547
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: thing about all of this is that least when it

548
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: came to romantic couples, uh imagine, was probably not really

549
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: just talking about kissing. This was a time when talking

550
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: openly about sexually transmitted infections was a not a thing.

551
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: So even in some of her writing, she seems like

552
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: she is actually talking around kind of a bigger issue,

553
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: but she will never actually reference like, Oh, I'm actually

554
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: writing an article that's about syphilis, but I'm talking only

555
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: about kissing, but that definitely does seem to be the case.

556
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Bummer of Imagine's story is that it kind of sputters

557
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: out at this point without any resolution. After the autumn

558
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: of nineteen eleven, there were no more articles about her

559
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: anti kissing efforts. There were some people who carried on

560
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: the cause, but they weren't Mrs Recton. She worked with

561
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: her local suffrage groups and other women's groups in Cincinnati,

562
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: but nothing that ever gained her the kind of attention

563
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: or scorn that the kiss not message had. We don't

564
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: really know what she thought of the nineteen eighteen influenza pandemic,

565
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: although surely she had strong feelings on the matter when

566
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: she died in nine. Yeah, an interesting one. Um, I

567
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: have much more. Look, I got through that whole episode

568
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: and I didn't go back. Once I'm cured, I could

569
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: say kissing all I want now. Um Um, I have

570
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: uh listener mail. It does not involve smooching of any kind. Okay,

571
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: we got so many wonderful emails about our monarch episodes

572
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: that um, I actually have two to read. So the

573
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: first one is from our listener Alex, who writes, Holly

574
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: and Tracy, I love the Monarch episode. I love science history,

575
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: and your science history episodes are among my favorite, especially

576
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: since they shine light on people's overlooked contributions, especially Catalina's.

577
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: And thank you for mentioning that people should plant native

578
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: milkweed if they want to support monarch butterflies in North America,

579
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: since research does suggest that it is indeed better for them.

580
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: There are non migratory populations of monarchs in the US

581
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: that have been linked to the planting of tropical milkweeds

582
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: that grow year round compared to native milkweed species that

583
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: are seasonal or dormant in the winter. We mentioned this

584
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: briefly in our episode, but this is a kind of

585
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: a deeper explainer on it. The non migratory populations have

586
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: been associated with a deadly monarch parasite called O E.

587
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: This is ophree Cistus electro syra. I may have pronounced

588
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: that wrong, so planting tropical milkweeds may be facilitating the

589
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: spread of the parasite within the non migratory monarchs, which

590
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: can then spread to migratory ones. Well, I am not

591
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: a monarch expert. I ended up reading several monarch papers

592
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: when I was a grad student. Uh Alex went to

593
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: the University of Georgia because I knew the wonderful people

594
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: in Dr Sonja alt Dezer's lab who were studying this

595
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: very issue. Talk about milkweeds and monarch disease from the

596
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: alt Dezer lab can be found at the Monarch joint

597
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: Venture website that was mentioned on the podcast that was

598
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: again Monarch joint Venture dot org and this one. If

599
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: you probably do a search there for assessment of exotic milkweed,

600
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: you will come up with that. At that lecture, the

601
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: episode and behind the scenes disc Shion has reminded me

602
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: how I've wanted to plant milkweed for a long time,

603
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: and so I planned to get some native milkweed seeds

604
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: and have them planted by spring. Thank you, Thank you, Alex.

605
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: I hope other people maybe remember that they meant to

606
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: plant milkweed because it's good for the monarchs um and

607
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: and as we said, plant your local variety so that

608
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: you don't mess up with any any of their migratory instinks.

609
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: I saw a monarchy yesterday when I was on my walk.

610
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: I was two days ago when I was on my walk,

611
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: and I also walked past what a stand of what

612
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: I realized was milkweed because I had never seen it

613
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: like as a full grown plant before. I had just

614
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: seen kind of like illustrations of what the leaves look

615
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: like with a little caterpillar on there. I love it.

616
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: I love it. Um. My other listener mail that is

617
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: also about monarchs is from our listener Caitlin and I

618
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: wanted to include this. We did as I had put

619
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: out a call to ask people like our kids still

620
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: getting in person, is it's We got a lot of

621
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: people saying yes, absolutely, no. Um. This one is the

622
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: cutest of them all in my opinion, So Caitlin, thank

623
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: you up front, because I might start giggling while I

624
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: say this. Um. Hi, Holly and Tracy, I was already

625
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: planning to share a cute story about butterflies in the classroom,

626
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: and then you asked about it in the Friday Behind

627
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: the scenes. I teach preschool and I'm pleased to report

628
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: we are still raising butterflies in the classroom. Terrariums that

629
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: Tracy described, for reasons unknown to me, are caterpillars. This year,

630
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: we're painted ladies instead of monarchs. We prepped the kids

631
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: with lots of books and videos about the caterpillar to

632
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: butterfly process and when our caterpillars cocoon, we announced to

633
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: the kids will check every day to see if the

634
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: cocoons are hatching. One of my kiddos added check the

635
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: terrarium to his morning routine. After his belongings were stowed

636
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: in his cubby, he would march over and inspect the

637
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: terrarium from every angle. After a few days, I noticed

638
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: him getting more and more dejected when nothing had changed,

639
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: which led to this conversation me, Hey, buddy, you seem

640
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: sad waiting and be hard. Huh, kid, yeah, I want

641
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: to see them. Me. Well, the butterflies will hatch soon. Kid,

642
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: visibly distressed, But when will the raccoons come? The entire

643
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: two weeks that we had been discussing caterpillars, cocoons, and butterflies,

644
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: he had been hearing raccoons instead. I'm not sure exactly

645
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: how he expected them to fit into the process, but

646
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: boy was he disappointed to learn that raccoons are rarely

647
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: involved in butterfly transformations. As always, thank you so much

648
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: for all the work you put into the podcast. It's

649
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts of the week. Caitlin, that

650
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: is hilarious. Yeah, I read that, and I had a

651
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: good chuckle. When did the raccoons go? Listen? I understand

652
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: wanting to see raccoons. They're real cute. I also just

653
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: going to give thanks to Chad for sending us not

654
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: really an email of information, but just pictures of the

655
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: adorable Heidi and Max brother and sister kitties who looked

656
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: like trouble uh and apparently love attention, as well as

657
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: the kitty Syreen, who just is like, I don't know magic.

658
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: To me, Syreen looks like a dilute Tortych's mostly gray,

659
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: but I see some little pale buff color patches, which

660
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: means uh. And Chad mentions she has grown up to

661
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: be absolutely unstoppable. She goes where she wants when she wants.

662
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: She was a tiny kitten that they rescued, and that

663
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: sounds right for a dilute torty. So um. Thank you

664
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: for taking care of beautiful kitties and giving them attention

665
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: and rescuing them and for sharing them with us. Thank

666
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: you to our listeners that have written in about monarchs. Uh.

667
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: As I said during that that's a subject that is

668
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: near and dear to my heart. So it makes me

669
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: happy that one kids are still getting that education about them,

670
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: even if sometimes raccoons get involved accidentally. And too that

671
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: other people respond so much to that important cause. And

672
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: I hope everybody is investigating their local milk weed. Uh.

673
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us so, you

674
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: can do so at History Podcast at iHeart radio dot com.

675
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media as a

676
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: Missed in History and if you have yet to subscribe,

677
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: get on that easy peasy. It is super simple to

678
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: do on the I heart radio app or wherever you

679
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History

680
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more

681
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 1: podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

682
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows