Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Godlie and uh this is
Speaker 1: the first ever on the road right literally on the
Speaker 1: interstate UH between Asheville, North Carolina and uh Harrisburg, Virginia.
Speaker 1: And what you're going to hear over the next hour
Speaker 1: or so is a podcast with Ryan Odum. Now, Uh, Ryan,
Speaker 1: I know each other a little bit. My brother and
Speaker 1: Ryan are are good friends. But it's if you're listening
Speaker 1: to this and you're a fan and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: they really seems like they know each other. Like it's
Speaker 1: called uh in in uh Hebrew its mish book, which
Speaker 1: is like family, my family by choice in basketball. It
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense if you're a hoop guy, right,
Speaker 1: his dad was a coach, high school coach, became a system,
Speaker 1: became big time college head coach. And my dad was
Speaker 1: high school coach, became a college since became a college
Speaker 1: head coach and college assistant, then an AU coach. Whatever.
Speaker 1: It's basketball family, and there's some interesting ties that behind there.
Speaker 1: Um And ultimately, obviously what we led up to is
Speaker 1: uh the greatest upset in the history of college basketball.
Speaker 1: And you're gonna be, I think, fascinated by it. But
Speaker 1: it's his own personal journey and remarkably, like I set
Speaker 1: this up to my brother Greg, who does deserve producing credit,
Speaker 1: and you know I wanted to. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do it right now as we get into champion Week,
Speaker 1: into the n c A tournament, and it's just timely
Speaker 1: and perfect and enjoyable. And Virginia is still the defending
Speaker 1: national champion, is of that. But but when we set
Speaker 1: it up, he was the one seed, and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, you know they're gonna win their tournament and
Speaker 1: then we'll get him. And it's like so they just
Speaker 1: maybe were upset by the eight seed, and then it
Speaker 1: became even more timely, more perfect, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: you want to you know, it's just it's just too emotional,
Speaker 1: it's too hard. You know, these coaches they lose a game,
Speaker 1: they bury themselves in a bunker for a month and
Speaker 1: good luck in them out of it. And I texted
Speaker 1: Ryan day after they lost two days like he, man,
Speaker 1: if you know what he's like, now we're doing it.
Speaker 1: How about we doing Monday? And then Monday didn't work
Speaker 1: and out Tuesday. So this is dropping on a Wednesday
Speaker 1: of Championship week, and I know you will enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It's it's impossible not too because he's just a delightful
Speaker 1: human being. UM I do have to promote the fact
Speaker 1: that when there are lit me of other all ball
Speaker 1: podcasts that are amazing, amazing from Tremaine Davis who was
Speaker 1: awarded the State at three and just recently was uh
Speaker 1: the ceremonial captain a Super Bowl. There's a two part
Speaker 1: with Ja Billis. You can dig through and find just
Speaker 1: you know where you searched out this podcast. There's Scott
Speaker 1: Brooks podcast, there's uh NATO's podcasts. I mean, there's so
Speaker 1: many good ones and uh it's it's interesting, Like I
Speaker 1: kind of started doing this as a bit of a
Speaker 1: passion project, just like catching up with friends or people
Speaker 1: that I'm fascinated by in the sport that I love.
Speaker 1: There's also a teachersmans Ottawa one about his life background
Speaker 1: which is not really basketball, but his personal story is
Speaker 1: so good and so interesting, you know, selling drugs and
Speaker 1: Oklahoma's city as a teenager, uh into making it to
Speaker 1: the NFL and becoming a pro bowler. Kind of cool,
Speaker 1: like we got them all in here. Just download the cowalog.
Speaker 1: Also can listen to Dug album show daily three to
Speaker 1: six Eastern Cault their Pacific. But this thing is is
Speaker 1: growing leaps and bounds, and guys like Ryan on the
Speaker 1: reason why, they just they have time to tell their
Speaker 1: story to share with you Dan Munson's podcast and of
Speaker 1: course um Son of Don an other coach's son was
Speaker 1: the head coach at Gonzago and they made that initial
Speaker 1: Elite eight run that was like a month ago. You
Speaker 1: can download that. But that's a two partter and every
Speaker 1: bit of it is good and every the honesty and
Speaker 1: it is amazing, amazing. You know, sometimes you get a
Speaker 1: guy like you know, there's more to the story, and
Speaker 1: most of the guys that we've had, they've just talked
Speaker 1: and told their story. It's an organic conversation. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do that on the radio. Obviously there's some
Speaker 1: more time constraints and there's some other uh, there's some
Speaker 1: other parts to it. I should also point out the
Speaker 1: Andrew Boga two partner, there's some language issues sometimes not
Speaker 1: that he doesn't speak English, in terms of our cursing
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's a little bit more rife, a
Speaker 1: little bit more real than some of the others. So
Speaker 1: download those are great list of doug Out the show
Speaker 1: three six Eastern Fox Sports Radio. I heart radio. App Um,
Speaker 1: I've I've lived this basketball journey now for I think
Speaker 1: eighty three was the first time I re umber right
Speaker 1: and we talked about that pot Um. I remember final four's.
Speaker 1: I've gone to final fours. I didn't play in the
Speaker 1: final four. I wish I did know people. I was
Speaker 1: like you playing a big coach, like, no, that was
Speaker 1: that was not me. Now you play with that with
Speaker 1: with Tony Allen. Now that was John Lucas that we
Speaker 1: lost the leading. So maybe I'll do a pod next
Speaker 1: next week on the n c A Tournament. My memories
Speaker 1: of playing in it. I kept done something that but
Speaker 1: the sixteen one, you know, it had never happened before,
Speaker 1: and statistics will tell you that ultimately was gonna happen.
Speaker 1: But logic to me, you said, might not have happened
Speaker 1: because low major is like a bad word that's used
Speaker 1: traditionally in recruiting. And I've been coaching that low major
Speaker 1: because somehow it just feels different than mid maker. But
Speaker 1: the low majors, the true one bid leagues, those are
Speaker 1: being rated by the mid and high majors. Your cruity, kid,
Speaker 1: you think he's a little bit better of mid major
Speaker 1: minus or maybe even a mid major mid major plus.
Speaker 1: And you get him, and he's so good that everybody
Speaker 1: takes notice. And so at au coach or an assistant
Speaker 1: coach in college somehow finds a way to the family,
Speaker 1: to the connector and they transfer up right. I mean,
Speaker 1: Cleveland State's program was raided. San Jose State has been rated. Um.
Speaker 1: You go across the country and there's lots of these kids,
Speaker 1: like I mean, look at Division three programs are losing
Speaker 1: players to the Division one programs. Um. So I always
Speaker 1: I thought recently that because guys are transferring up from
Speaker 1: the lower levels, I'm sure what happened now, It's important
Speaker 1: to point out that Virginia did have a major injury
Speaker 1: to DeAndre Hunter and that changed and not just in
Speaker 1: terms of their go to guy, but also he allowed
Speaker 1: them to play smaller and more for out one end.
Speaker 1: But that didn't if you go back and watch that game,
Speaker 1: didn't feel that much like enough just it and it
Speaker 1: was because it was an asking by UNBC got out
Speaker 1: of hand in the end. Anyway, Ryan Oldtom his son
Speaker 1: of the great coach and kind of legendary coach, right
Speaker 1: in college basketball. His personal story has been told many
Speaker 1: times over and um, he's come out the other side.
Speaker 1: He had a great year. They won the league this
Speaker 1: year at U NBC, but obviously fell short in the conference.
Speaker 1: Certain if you're known for one thing and known for
Speaker 1: pulling off arguably the right US upset the history college basketball,
Speaker 1: they didn't have. Bet there's a lot more to him.
Speaker 1: I think you enjoyed this conversation. Here's the head coach
Speaker 1: of Maryland Baltimore County Rhino. Yeah, college basketball was crazy,
Speaker 1: right obviously, and I want to get to what happened
Speaker 1: most recently and then what you're probably most known for.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to start like when you were born.
Speaker 1: Were both sons of coaches, But I think it was
Speaker 1: right in the window of your dad going from being
Speaker 1: a high school coach to a college assistance. That is
Speaker 1: that accurate exactly? Yeah, yeah, Night. I was born in
Speaker 1: seventy four and my father was the head coach at
Speaker 1: Durham High School, and uh, you know, back then, John
Speaker 1: Lucas was playing in a rival high school. There was
Speaker 1: all kinds of good players around there. Got Marshall Ashford
Speaker 1: played for him, who ended up going on to Virginia
Speaker 1: Tech to be a really good guard. But yeah, he uh,
Speaker 1: he started in in Goldsboro. That's where he was born
Speaker 1: and raised. And so his father was a car dealer
Speaker 1: and so the his dad was a car dealer. His
Speaker 1: dad was a car dealery and the car dealership in
Speaker 1: uh in Goldsborough maybe the Cadillac. I have no idea
Speaker 1: what it was, but um, you know, he would work
Speaker 1: there every summer and so the you know, the thought was, hey,
Speaker 1: he's gonna take it over one day. That's just gonna
Speaker 1: what's gonna be what happens. And so, um, he went
Speaker 1: to play basketball for a guy named Jerry Steele at
Speaker 1: high Point excuse me, Guildford. He'll kill me for saying
Speaker 1: high Point. He at Guildford College, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Jerry Steele is a great player in White Forest, one
Speaker 1: of the best big guys in the sixties, back when
Speaker 1: they went to the Final four and played Billy Packer
Speaker 1: and that crew, and uh, they were very close in age.
Speaker 1: So Jerry just graduated from Wake. It was just coming
Speaker 1: into Guildford and so that was kind of his first
Speaker 1: connection into the basketball world was through through Jerry Steel.
Speaker 1: Jerry played for Bonds McKinny, and you know he mentor
Speaker 1: dad Dad played football as well. He played uh basketball,
Speaker 1: he played baseball all like Guildford you know, in college
Speaker 1: and just love sports. So he ends up after graduating
Speaker 1: from college going home to Goldsborough and coaches at his
Speaker 1: high school. And he graduated from Goldsboro High School. They're
Speaker 1: a couple of years my brother Lane, who you know
Speaker 1: is born there at the time in Goldsboro, and then
Speaker 1: move on to to He moves on and gets offered
Speaker 1: the Durham High job. That's where I'm born in seventy four,
Speaker 1: and so he was very fortunate and that he got
Speaker 1: to know at that point m Vic Bubis was the
Speaker 1: head coach at Duke. Chuck Daly was an assistant, Hubie
Speaker 1: Brown was an assistant. I mean it was the who's
Speaker 1: who on that staff, you know at that point. And
Speaker 1: so he would go over there, you know, almost daily
Speaker 1: to watch the practices and do all that. And so
Speaker 1: his connection and and initial entree in college basketball was
Speaker 1: through they introduced him to GARF and so he would
Speaker 1: take he was kind of the first Southern guy to
Speaker 1: go up to five Star basketball camp and you know,
Speaker 1: he literally would drive the bus up and all the
Speaker 1: local players in the in in North Carolina would go
Speaker 1: up there with him and uh, you know, spend a
Speaker 1: week or two and go to the camp. And say,
Speaker 1: he became obviously really close with you know, all the
Speaker 1: coaching characters of of that time, Patino's and you know
Speaker 1: obviously Garf and for Tella, and he met all those
Speaker 1: guys and has remained close with them for years. Um.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be coaching if it wasn't for him
Speaker 1: coaching at Darren High and you know, them connecting into Garf.
Speaker 1: Amazing my dad. Uh so my grandpa wasn't accounting, yeah,
Speaker 1: in New York, and he's a very successful account and Um,
Speaker 1: he became a car dealer because he would take over
Speaker 1: parts of people's businesses because you need to look at
Speaker 1: the books. It's bad shape because they don't know what
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing. And you know, with
Speaker 1: his accounting background, he took over a car dealership on
Speaker 1: Long Island. My dad was like thirteen and moved death
Speaker 1: Long Island and he became the most successful car dealer
Speaker 1: on Long Island because he was the first to start
Speaker 1: leasing and he was leasing two soldiers who were coming
Speaker 1: back from you know, any sort of battle whatever he had.
Speaker 1: He had connections uh within like the v A and
Speaker 1: they would you know, get off the boat and have
Speaker 1: a brand new Catalec for him, and and uh anyway,
Speaker 1: it kind of similarly. Like so my dad his first
Speaker 1: job was at Fairlawn High School in New Jersey, and
Speaker 1: I believe the previous coach was HUGHB. Brown and yeah,
Speaker 1: and then my dad he had this mere curial journey
Speaker 1: where he was like he was the head coach at
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs High School, at Death Valley High School, at
Speaker 1: i'll think of it in the second somewhere out in
Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania. Uh, close to where Jerry Lucas grew up. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's it's interesting kind of the similarity.
Speaker 1: So your dad goes to Wake as an assistant, you're
Speaker 1: like two years old. Yeah, So, so your earliest memories
Speaker 1: of basketball were more in a college gym or in
Speaker 1: a high school gym? Like what are your earliest memories?
Speaker 1: Definitely college? Yeah, yeah, definitely college. I mean I remember
Speaker 1: Wake a little bit. Um they had because my brother
Speaker 1: was you know, brother six seven years older than me
Speaker 1: or whatever, and and so at halftime, they always had
Speaker 1: this thank called the Dribbling Beacons, and so Lane was
Speaker 1: a part of the dribble and deacon. So I sort
Speaker 1: of remember that. UM. And then you know, he left there,
Speaker 1: you know, and and became the head coach at East Carolina,
Speaker 1: and so we moved down to Greenville and and I
Speaker 1: definitely remember that being there. I remember summer camps, you know,
Speaker 1: going to his camp, and he would always have great
Speaker 1: college counselors. I remember James Worthy came, you know one
Speaker 1: it was probably his after his junior sophomore year or
Speaker 1: something was when he broke his leg and he was
Speaker 1: out for basically the summer at the camp. No no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I think it was he had some sort of surgery
Speaker 1: over the summer, and so I just remember him being
Speaker 1: at the camp with this huge cast on. I don't
Speaker 1: know how he worked camp with the cast on, but
Speaker 1: he did. UM. And then you know, Dad left there
Speaker 1: after three years and then you know, went up to
Speaker 1: Virginia and and that was kind of an odd thing,
Speaker 1: you know, because he was a head coach at East
Speaker 1: Carolina and then he went you know after three quick
Speaker 1: years too. And again they weren't terrible when you see
Speaker 1: they were they were okay, um, and he went to
Speaker 1: be an assistant for Terry Holland. Well they were number
Speaker 1: one of the country at that point. That was when
Speaker 1: Ralph was still there, Ralph's senior year. You know, they
Speaker 1: were picked to win the whole thing. Um, okay, so
Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's let's start there. Okay, So your
Speaker 1: how old this time this is? I'm probably I'm going
Speaker 1: into I'm going into the third, third or fourth grade
Speaker 1: at that point, like like eight years old. Yeah, south
Speaker 1: and for and like you and I know, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people listening, but there's some people
Speaker 1: who don't know, like Ralph Sampson was like three time
Speaker 1: player that year, seven foot four, Yeah, like crazy skill,
Speaker 1: crazy skill. Remember this isn't a time when the a
Speaker 1: c C has worthy and Jordan's right and like everybody
Speaker 1: has NC stated just one nationally one championship like the
Speaker 1: league is and he's the best of all. Okay, So
Speaker 1: eight year old Ryan Odom, what do you remember about
Speaker 1: like the first you're looking up at Ralph Sampson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean just just shock. You know, I've never never
Speaker 1: seen a guy that's all number one and to see
Speaker 1: the things that he was able to do on the
Speaker 1: basketball court. I mean, it's what you see all these
Speaker 1: guys nowadays. And obviously they've taken it to another level
Speaker 1: in terms of how they play with the ball, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of their skill level. But back then, when
Speaker 1: you had big guys, it was all around the rim.
Speaker 1: You know, it was hook shots, and he certainly had
Speaker 1: all that. Those donks layups and and they would they
Speaker 1: would get to the free throw. But you know, his
Speaker 1: ability to shoot and dribble and do the things that
Speaker 1: he could do on a court, it was amazing. But
Speaker 1: I remember the times where he wasn't playing, you know,
Speaker 1: and and I'm at the practice because we literally lived.
Speaker 1: You've been to Charlottesville and where the you know, U
Speaker 1: Haul was. There's a brand you've never I'm actually gonna
Speaker 1: go there tomorrow. Oh my gosh, you got I have
Speaker 1: a day off. Yeah, it's just we'll back. I apologized
Speaker 1: interrupt your stories. Okay. So the first high major to
Speaker 1: offer me, yeah, it was Jeff Jones and Virginia j Okay,
Speaker 1: So so when he was there that when he offered me,
Speaker 1: Harold Dean was his point guard and and I loved
Speaker 1: Harold Dean, because Harold Dean had like the most he
Speaker 1: and Jim Jackson had the most ripped arms. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: I was like, those guys are badasses. And so I remember,
Speaker 1: like remember they used to they used to send out,
Speaker 1: you know, all the mailing stuff whatever, and so I,
Speaker 1: you know, like Virginia coach Jones offered me a scholarship
Speaker 1: and um, and I was still a junior in high
Speaker 1: school and at the time it was mostly mid majors
Speaker 1: and you know, some tepid interests from some other schools.
Speaker 1: It was Virginia first, and then Lon Kerger Florida off me.
Speaker 1: But Virginia semis so I had got all this stuff
Speaker 1: and it was the first it was the only school
Speaker 1: that when they sent all this information, I just poured
Speaker 1: over it and I was just fascinated by the campus
Speaker 1: and the beauty of the campus and everything. And I
Speaker 1: became like I became this likelar Um Bobby really was
Speaker 1: my idol. Yeah, And I didn't know, but I still
Speaker 1: to this day, I've never been to Cameron. I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about I don't know anything about Duke really
Speaker 1: is a university. But Virginia I know everything about the
Speaker 1: buildings and the architecture, like I was super into it.
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. Yeah, yeah, but they remember, they remember the
Speaker 1: old arena was a dump, like a complete remember, and
Speaker 1: like why do they play there? Fox Sports Radio has
Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all
Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and
Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R
Speaker 1: to listen live. Um. Anyway, so it's it's fascinating event. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you lived close to the live close. Yes, there's
Speaker 1: a bridge leads you know, from one little neighborhood over
Speaker 1: into where the old arena you hall was, and now
Speaker 1: they've since torn it down. They've torn down new hall
Speaker 1: they floated it a year ago, but the new arenas
Speaker 1: right beside that, and so literally I would get home.
Speaker 1: We left two doors down from the Hollands, and so
Speaker 1: I grew up with you know, you know, Coach Holland
Speaker 1: and Mrs Holland and their daughters and Michael and Kate
Speaker 1: Uh Jim Laranago was an assistant at the time. So Jay,
Speaker 1: you know, and I grew up together. Like that was
Speaker 1: kind of the staff at the time, and the kids,
Speaker 1: h Jay and John John's Jay's younger brother. Um and
Speaker 1: so we had a blast together traveling around, you know,
Speaker 1: watching the final fours and n c A tournaments and
Speaker 1: just all these different, you know, experiences that we all
Speaker 1: had together growing up. Was really cool. And Coach Holland
Speaker 1: made it like a true family. But when I would
Speaker 1: get home from school every day, I would get on
Speaker 1: my bike and I would ride across the bridge. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I would walk, um and uh, I would go to
Speaker 1: the practices and you know, literally you think about the
Speaker 1: practices and the guys that were in the gym at
Speaker 1: the time, and then you had Ralph Sampson, You had
Speaker 1: Rick Carlile, you had Othel Wilson, you know, who was
Speaker 1: an amazing guard and one of the best in in
Speaker 1: the a SEC at that time. You had Ricky Stokes.
Speaker 1: You know, it was incredible to watch. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you can keep keep going with all the players there.
Speaker 1: When did you first started absorbed the actual basketball? It
Speaker 1: was probably then, yeah, I mean it was it was,
Speaker 1: you know, as after we'd been there, you know, three
Speaker 1: or four years. You know, all of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 1: twelve years old and and like I'm working out hard
Speaker 1: over there, and um, you know around the team. You
Speaker 1: know about when Brian Stiff and John Protty and those
Speaker 1: guys came in. Um, yeah, I mean that was about
Speaker 1: the time. Huh these are these are good players. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I used to try to copy, like I forgot like
Speaker 1: John Chardy was. I forgot like man, he was a stud.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's good. He was just a tough dud too.
Speaker 1: Mean he well that's the that's the thing. And you
Speaker 1: know I have I've been eleven year old son and
Speaker 1: you know, like and he's he's like he's the world's
Speaker 1: nicest kid. Yeah, he's just nice. And I'll never forget
Speaker 1: like he was. I've always I've tried to play him
Speaker 1: up a lot with eleven to playing like when you
Speaker 1: get to play thirteens, Like there's just there's just a difference.
Speaker 1: There's a you know, the kids that have post puberty.
Speaker 1: It's just really hard to fit in there. Um. And
Speaker 1: and he's he'll he's like me, he'll be sure late.
Speaker 1: Um I'm still waiting. So when his his first time
Speaker 1: playing like AU basketball, I starting coaching this like fourth
Speaker 1: grade B team, um, and I had him playing on it.
Speaker 1: And he's like in third grade and he's young third grader.
Speaker 1: So instead of just like letting him play like he
Speaker 1: just he couldn't dribble his left hand his left handed,
Speaker 1: so oil him ribble right. And then we find the
Speaker 1: other chem's point guard. I would make we find out
Speaker 1: his right left handed, make him go the other way
Speaker 1: the whole game. That's it simplified. And I just want
Speaker 1: you to guard him the entire game, you know, and
Speaker 1: just every time he gets the ball, make him go
Speaker 1: to his left handies right hand. And so we're playing
Speaker 1: a team and his fourth graders, and he's really frustrating,
Speaker 1: this kid, and he's doing a great job and nobody's
Speaker 1: looking and at the free tow line, the kid just
Speaker 1: turns and elbows him right in the head. He goes
Speaker 1: down to the ground. He's crying at basketball. Don't have
Speaker 1: to play day. And I said, your men, I say
Speaker 1: to it now, I said, I said, Hayes, listen, bro,
Speaker 1: if you want play this thing, you gotta be you
Speaker 1: gotta be tougher than a two dollar steak. That's right,
Speaker 1: you gotta and and and the if if we go through,
Speaker 1: we track the guys that have made it as backup
Speaker 1: point guards in the NBA, the guys that we all
Speaker 1: respect as the great college point guards, like all of
Speaker 1: them they have one thing in coom. Some of them
Speaker 1: are stores, some of them are facilitators. Some of them
Speaker 1: are black, some of them are white. Yeah, they were mixed.
Speaker 1: They are all the toughest dudes on the batto or
Speaker 1: you will ever find. It's just that the nature of
Speaker 1: you have to be smart, yes, a little bit, but
Speaker 1: you have tough is way more important than anything. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna make it if you're not tough. Like
Speaker 1: that kid t J McConnell right now, still playing him
Speaker 1: and he's perfect, Like look J McConnell like, and I
Speaker 1: apologize to him every time I see him because I
Speaker 1: was like dj I because I told him when he
Speaker 1: finished school. I was like, you know, like europe should
Speaker 1: be hard because you gotta you can play. But he
Speaker 1: plays like a lot of Europeans in terms of his toughness,
Speaker 1: but they can all really shoot. They like your own guys.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, you should coaching whatever. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it, and he's obviously made it. And
Speaker 1: he's made it because he knows he does what he
Speaker 1: can do. Just mid rain shots and layups, get gonna
Speaker 1: be open and then he just ball goes in the
Speaker 1: basket and he's here. We go. Yeah, he just duards
Speaker 1: and he's just do And they're gonna and they're gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna come at you and try and
Speaker 1: expose you for your weaknesses every time on defense, and
Speaker 1: you either decide you want to play or you're done,
Speaker 1: you know, And then you always say, there's nowhere to
Speaker 1: hide once you get inside those lines. There's nowhere to hide,
Speaker 1: whether you're gonna get done or you're not. And as
Speaker 1: a team or as an individual, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: trying to make it as an individual, there's nowhere to hide.
Speaker 1: It's it's as fair as again, you know. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you're so so so. I mean Terry Holland had these
Speaker 1: amazing staffs. Yeah, amazing staffs. I mean really like crazy.
Speaker 1: You go back kind of uh, you go back through
Speaker 1: and look at all these systems they have all gone on.
Speaker 1: They were all successful in coaching and and well respected.
Speaker 1: Um oh, why did they not win it all? I
Speaker 1: mean I think you have to you have to be lucky,
Speaker 1: you know at times to win it all. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the short answer of it. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: they they had you know, that that particular year, they
Speaker 1: ran into a team that caught lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 1: Like if NC State didn't exist, Sydney low And and
Speaker 1: Derek Whittenberg and all that that that crew, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: they would have won it most likely, you know, that
Speaker 1: year and they ran into a team that you know
Speaker 1: would not there was no give it and it was
Speaker 1: there was just something magical about it. And um, I
Speaker 1: think sometimes that's just the way it is. Like you know,
Speaker 1: you think about Virginia's run last last year a few
Speaker 1: years ago. Now, I mean they had to escape multiple round,
Speaker 1: multiple things had to happen, you know, in each game,
Speaker 1: and then to continue to advance. And so I think
Speaker 1: not that you say, oh they're lucky, you know, but
Speaker 1: you have to have luck, you know, without a doubt. Um.
Speaker 1: And the matchups, you know, it's all the matchups. You know,
Speaker 1: each round, you know how that plays out, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I don't I don't really know
Speaker 1: the ins and out so exactly why they didn't went
Speaker 1: didn't beat NC State, but you know they they had
Speaker 1: their chances. I know that, Um, so so your then
Speaker 1: your dad would wear so he left there in eighty
Speaker 1: nine and became the head coach Awake. Yeah. So he
Speaker 1: was an assistant all the way to eighty nine and
Speaker 1: then took over Wake Forest that that year. What was
Speaker 1: what was that like for you to leave? You're you're
Speaker 1: like painting a picture of utopia and Virginia, right, great teams,
Speaker 1: Charlottesville is supposely amazing, you know, um and great players
Speaker 1: and now you're at Wake Forest. And remember this again
Speaker 1: in the league in nine where Carolina Duke, you know,
Speaker 1: it's still Virginia and whatever. What was what your early
Speaker 1: memories of when you're dead took over a week? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember going to the press conference right at Greylan
Speaker 1: Conference Center. I mean it was you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was really exciting because Dad had kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: achieved something that was a dream of this, you know,
Speaker 1: to be a head coach in the a c C.
Speaker 1: And it was at a place that he knew really
Speaker 1: well where he got to start. Um, he knew he
Speaker 1: knew all the people there already, you know, and and
Speaker 1: they were excited to you know, to have him back,
Speaker 1: um and and it was an opportunity for him to
Speaker 1: build something. And you know, I think one of the
Speaker 1: big things that helped them get going. Um was being
Speaker 1: able to to sign Rodney Rogers. Um, you know that
Speaker 1: was that was the first sign that, man, they can
Speaker 1: do something. You know, if this guy is willing to
Speaker 1: take a chance on Wake, then you know, we we
Speaker 1: we could have something special here. So your dad gets
Speaker 1: it that, your dad gets the Wake job. Yeah, um
Speaker 1: that What was that like for you in terms of
Speaker 1: your basketball? Now your middle school, in the high school,
Speaker 1: getting ready for high school. Yeah, so I'm heading into
Speaker 1: tenth grade at that point, um, And so you know,
Speaker 1: anytime you you know, you know, as a coach's son,
Speaker 1: you move around a lot, and so you have to
Speaker 1: be you you you know, we tried to always look
Speaker 1: at it as an opportunity as opposed to like, you know,
Speaker 1: this this sucks. Man, we're moving again. I just made
Speaker 1: all my friends here and now I gotta leave all
Speaker 1: of them. The way we try to view it was,
Speaker 1: you know, I have more friends down because of this,
Speaker 1: and let's go and make some more. And so that
Speaker 1: was our you know, an initial thought going in there,
Speaker 1: and it was a place that we such a such
Speaker 1: apparent thing to say that's going We'll just make more friends, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know how that works. You was that like,
Speaker 1: you're literally never going to see these people ever again
Speaker 1: in your life. Yeah, you're not the one happened to
Speaker 1: walk into high school, you know, for the first day
Speaker 1: where you don't know. Plus you're you're like now the
Speaker 1: head coach his son, which is a completely different dynamic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody has corn. Yeah, yeah, they're looking sideways at you
Speaker 1: right away. So okay, so what what high school? I
Speaker 1: went to R. J. Reynolds, which is turned out to
Speaker 1: be a great blessing for me. It was a great school,
Speaker 1: awesome school. I played for a coaching in Howard West.
Speaker 1: It's one of the all time winning coaches in in
Speaker 1: North Carolina history. Um, just a great coach. And I
Speaker 1: met some of lifelong friends there, man, lifelong friends. I got.
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta quick my my own, I gotta.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of weeks. Four stories. One of
Speaker 1: them is do you know that Fran McCaffrey went there
Speaker 1: as Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, so when your dad recruited him?
Speaker 1: Was your dad still there when Fran was there? He
Speaker 1: was there for a year, I think, and Fran left
Speaker 1: he didn't play that much, And well, I don't know
Speaker 1: Frank I think France that he started as a freshman.
Speaker 1: He might have. And he said his Kyl Tasey story
Speaker 1: was this one. Yeah's a good one. He said, yeah,
Speaker 1: he has two of them, okay, and I probably I've
Speaker 1: had him on the pod and I don't know. He
Speaker 1: didn't tell it, so I'll tell it for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He said one was their planet, dude. And then he
Speaker 1: had a rule and you could ask your dad this
Speaker 1: rule that was on the side. It was in the side,
Speaker 1: side of the bounds. They were in zone yeah, underneath
Speaker 1: there in man. Okay, okay, so they're planet Cameron. The
Speaker 1: ball goes out of bounds and it's down close to
Speaker 1: the corner, but it's on the side yeah, um, or
Speaker 1: excuse me, underneath that a bounder in stone side there
Speaker 1: and man right, So uh, ball is out of bounds
Speaker 1: and um, it's on the sideline, close to the baseline,
Speaker 1: but still on the sideline. So Frank gets his man.
Speaker 1: They throw the ball bounds to the elbow where he's
Speaker 1: supposed to be if they were in a twoth risona,
Speaker 1: only they're not supposed to be a two the risona
Speaker 1: and Kyle Tacy hops up and yeah, you know, and
Speaker 1: he so Frank comes over and he's like, why did
Speaker 1: you take me out? And he said, and he goes,
Speaker 1: you don't know, and so he goes in instead of
Speaker 1: going and sitting down on the bench, and he goes, coach,
Speaker 1: we gotta rule side out of bounds, were in man underneath,
Speaker 1: we're in zone, and Tasty like wheels back and he's
Speaker 1: watching the game and like it should have been over
Speaker 1: at that point, but of course, if you know Fran,
Speaker 1: it's not over. So France, France says something like, so
Speaker 1: what you should have done was take those other four
Speaker 1: assholes out and left me in. So that his other stories,
Speaker 1: other stories, this is my favorite one, and I said,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. We're sitting in the Joyce Center and
Speaker 1: we're watching the girls practice. Little did I know that
Speaker 1: Margaret was a women's coach at the time. Frand was
Speaker 1: single and they had just started dating or whatever. So
Speaker 1: watching the women's talk to Muff mcraw is a great
Speaker 1: coach watching practice, And I said, Brandy, when don't you
Speaker 1: know you want to coach? And he said, let tell
Speaker 1: you the moment playing in College Park against Maryland, I
Speaker 1: think I left he Guerzelle. We got Kyle taste and
Speaker 1: they're both good coaches, and uh, three seconds left go
Speaker 1: in the game, and we're down a point, and we
Speaker 1: call it time out, and assistants are arguing over what
Speaker 1: to run, and by the time they decide that, by
Speaker 1: the time Kyle Tasty comes over to drop a play,
Speaker 1: the buzzer sounds and the refs are putting his back
Speaker 1: out of the court and he turns to me and
Speaker 1: he's like, Frank, get him something. He's like, you know,
Speaker 1: we're running two whatever. Two is right. So they get
Speaker 1: the line up and Lefty Grizelle looks and he calls
Speaker 1: the time out because he wants to adjust to whatever takes.
Speaker 1: He's like, So I said to myself, wait a second.
Speaker 1: One guy can't get decide what he wants to run.
Speaker 1: The other guy wants to call it time out to
Speaker 1: give the other guy a chance to figure out what
Speaker 1: he wants. I gotta do this. This, this is the
Speaker 1: greatest job ever. Well, so you're to high school, you're
Speaker 1: having a great experience. How good How good were you
Speaker 1: high school? High school? I was solid, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I played as a sophomore on the on the varsity
Speaker 1: and then you know, started my last two years um,
Speaker 1: and you know my options were walk on it wake
Speaker 1: you know, walk on at Furman, but Chests was the
Speaker 1: coach there. Uh yeah, grade school, um, you know, or
Speaker 1: or go to Hampton Sydney and and you know I
Speaker 1: wanted to play, you know, it was still in me.
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't I wasn't ready to kind of
Speaker 1: give up on the actual action. And uh, you know
Speaker 1: I decided to go to go to Hampton Sydney and
Speaker 1: play for Tony Shaverer. Tony, you know it was an
Speaker 1: awesome coach m still is to this day and a
Speaker 1: tremendous mentor for me. Uh. He was a walk on
Speaker 1: for Dean Smith at U n C. And I used
Speaker 1: to playing it still for it every day in practice,
Speaker 1: and so he taught us all so much, I mean
Speaker 1: over the years. And I've still got some of my
Speaker 1: best friends and memories you know from college and and
Speaker 1: games that we had and you know how it is,
Speaker 1: you remember you don't necessarily remember all the games, but
Speaker 1: you remember all the times together outside of the games,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know we still are on you know,
Speaker 1: we still connect with one another, our team, you know,
Speaker 1: on text and all that from that time. So so
Speaker 1: when you so so now you're starting to form kind
Speaker 1: of your own basketball identity, right because um, like obviously
Speaker 1: your dad has one style, yeah, high school coaches style.
Speaker 1: Tony has a style. You know, when you're a smart thinker,
Speaker 1: you have an opinion of your own. How did how
Speaker 1: did you guys play? Because you I think you shot
Speaker 1: a lot of three, didn't you guys? You guys play, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had a semi we were We played the Caroline system.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was totally the Carolina system.
Speaker 1: I mean we pressed, you know, I mean we would
Speaker 1: score basket and we were in any for what they
Speaker 1: called twenty four, which is face guard your guy, and
Speaker 1: we'd have a guy either on or off the ball. Um,
Speaker 1: and we were making your life miserable. You know, the
Speaker 1: entire entire game, turning you, trapping you, um, the way
Speaker 1: they used to play back years ago. And uh, occasionally
Speaker 1: we would switch to his own, but that was rare. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, that was the momentum changer. Offensively, we were motion.
Speaker 1: He had some sets in all those same sets that
Speaker 1: that they would run, uh you know, in transition, you know,
Speaker 1: reversed backscreen, you know, the lobs, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: We did we played Carolina basketball at Sydney at that level,
Speaker 1: and you know, very little scouting of the other team,
Speaker 1: Like I don't even really remember a ton of scouting
Speaker 1: for the other data. They did it, but it was
Speaker 1: all about us. It was never about like the other team.
Speaker 1: They would have to beat us. And you know, he
Speaker 1: he was just a really really good coach, and uh,
Speaker 1: that was it was a fun time in my life.
Speaker 1: So so you get them playing, yeah, and then now
Speaker 1: you're just wasn't the only best. But I mean like,
Speaker 1: look that's a great school. Yeah, I mean my thought initially,
Speaker 1: I did an internship my junior year, um in between
Speaker 1: my junior and senior year at Bank of America and Charlotte,
Speaker 1: and I worked for my godfather all summer on the
Speaker 1: trading floor, and so I thought about going into the
Speaker 1: financial That was my my initial goal when I was
Speaker 1: an econ mayor. I thought about going into financial world.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, while I enjoyed it that summer,
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to give up hoofs and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: as I got later into my senior year, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a parent that I wanted to coach, and
Speaker 1: my father was kind of at the height of his career.
Speaker 1: You know, they had won back to back ACC championships
Speaker 1: with Duncan Children's and those guys. Um. And then you know,
Speaker 1: my brother was coaching, you know at Alabama. You know
Speaker 1: they had Spreewell and Cory and all those James Hollywood robins.
Speaker 1: Were they. I mean they actually a little un of fact,
Speaker 1: my brother and my father played against fore another and
Speaker 1: n s a turn. You know, Alabama played Wake Forest,
Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. Um, but you know it was
Speaker 1: it was a parent that I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: And and your old buddy Seth Greenberg gave me a
Speaker 1: chance down at down at South Florida and helped me
Speaker 1: get into business and and then gave me my second
Speaker 1: job or my third job at Virginia Tech third or fourth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the he tried to recruit you didn't he did,
Speaker 1: so he recruited me a Long Beach initially coming out
Speaker 1: like you know, my dad we moved out to California
Speaker 1: because my dad was an assistant under Tex Twitter at
Speaker 1: at Long Beach and I mean he had it going
Speaker 1: at Long Beach State, Yeah, he had it was it
Speaker 1: was a big time program in a small time league.
Speaker 1: And um, but I just I mean part of it
Speaker 1: was I really, you know, I probably want I wanted
Speaker 1: to go to u C. L A. And they offered me,
Speaker 1: but it was just there was there was some baggage
Speaker 1: there in terms of them not offered me early and
Speaker 1: from a younger, from a kid the year behind me,
Speaker 1: and I just I didn't feel it, and I maybe
Speaker 1: wanted to get to get away as well, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I moved back since to California, But there's there's a
Speaker 1: reason that I wanted to get away. I love I
Speaker 1: don't I love basketball, but I like I want to
Speaker 1: play somewhere where they love basketball, where they care about it.
Speaker 1: It's warmer college atmosphere. And it took a second stop
Speaker 1: to get there. But when I transferred, uh he and
Speaker 1: and dave Z they put on the full core press
Speaker 1: to South Florida. Yeah, we were, we were, we were
Speaker 1: gonna have we were gonna have a minion. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have all the just all the Jews gather in Tampa
Speaker 1: and and be it's at South Florida. And so year
Speaker 1: what year was that, because I think I was nine
Speaker 1: six and set up. So I went there ninety seven
Speaker 1: his first year I was there. Yeah, right, so he
Speaker 1: uh yeah, so he he he did like to home visits.
Speaker 1: It was a weird he would like did a home
Speaker 1: visit and then he was like, he's like, I forgot
Speaker 1: some stuff and I was just I couldn't. I just
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't
Speaker 1: do it. Like there was an ego part to it
Speaker 1: that I wasn't I wasn't willing to give up that
Speaker 1: the high major thing or whatever. And uh and it
Speaker 1: wasn't anything personal, said I love Seth Um so okay,
Speaker 1: but Seth coaches very differently then, especially differently in your
Speaker 1: dad Terry Holland and Tony Shaber. What did you take
Speaker 1: from that experience when you're just getting into the business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, for he wasn't afraid of anybody. You know,
Speaker 1: I think he's not that he should to outwork because
Speaker 1: everybody works hard in college basketball, Like there's a there's
Speaker 1: a lot of hard workers out there. He works really smart, um,
Speaker 1: and you know it's almost like he like you have
Speaker 1: your back against the wall. He's got this underdog team
Speaker 1: and he knew what it was gonna take with his
Speaker 1: team to get them to fight and be tough to
Speaker 1: a certain level. UM to be competitive and not only
Speaker 1: be competitive, but to win, and like what he did
Speaker 1: in Virginia attack you know, and you know his time there,
Speaker 1: you know it was he got that program going again. Uh,
Speaker 1: it had fallen on hard times, you know, had some
Speaker 1: transition in terms of moving leagues and all of that,
Speaker 1: and he just infused this immediate energy and no fear,
Speaker 1: and you know, he got to the how, I how
Speaker 1: do you do it? How do you infuse toughness and
Speaker 1: energy and belief when it doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think initially it's it's you know, the recruiting side
Speaker 1: of things. You know, you have to you have to.
Speaker 1: We were fortunate that, you know, when when he first
Speaker 1: got there, he signed he ended up signing zadendal Del
Speaker 1: who he was recruiting at South Florida UM. Xavian turned
Speaker 1: out to be an all a sec a performer. He
Speaker 1: was just a hard worker and had no fear and
Speaker 1: had the chip on his shoulder and and and wanted
Speaker 1: to prove people wrong. So I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the first ways that you do it, because you have
Speaker 1: to have others within your program that feel like they've
Speaker 1: been you know, slided a little bit and they have
Speaker 1: something to prove. And we had a group of guys
Speaker 1: that felt that way. Um, Jamal Gordon was his backcourt mate.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jamal Gordon was recruited by the Georgia Techs
Speaker 1: and some of these other schools, you know, overlooked probably
Speaker 1: by his local schools in Florida State and Florida and Miami. Um,
Speaker 1: and he came up to Virginia Tech. And it was
Speaker 1: open for them to play because you know, we didn't
Speaker 1: have anybody else really at that point. And and you know,
Speaker 1: they just they just took it. Those two guys took
Speaker 1: it and ran with it. And we had a young
Speaker 1: player in Coleman Collins who just kind of grew into
Speaker 1: an amazing role and and uh, you know, became a dominant,
Speaker 1: you know player for us, and we just kept recruiting,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: you know, he really tried to do was playoff of
Speaker 1: the success that football had already established. Like there's a
Speaker 1: built in fan base at a football school like that,
Speaker 1: you know, in Virginia Tech. And so all of the
Speaker 1: cheers and the things that they were excited about. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we tried to move into Castle Coliseum, and
Speaker 1: the students already were excited about the university as a whole.
Speaker 1: Like you walk around that school, you don't see any
Speaker 1: other shirts. You know, there's certain certain schools where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know Wake for instance, you know that they're just
Speaker 1: mixed allegiances in that community. And it's not Wake small.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, you have u n C. You
Speaker 1: know Duke and Carola and uh NC State they're also
Speaker 1: close together. Um naturally there's some mixed allegiances. Well in
Speaker 1: a place like a college town like you're talking about,
Speaker 1: there aren't any like everybody's for that for that school,
Speaker 1: and you don't even wear that, you don't wear another
Speaker 1: color like that. Yeah, you know that's the thing that
Speaker 1: I think people don't if you're if you haven't been
Speaker 1: a part of it, you don't understand. Like if you
Speaker 1: live in Stillwater or you're an no papers, you don't
Speaker 1: own anything that's red, You don't own anything that rent
Speaker 1: any shade of rend. You just don't own everything you have,
Speaker 1: Like you fall back on orange, right, Like that's just
Speaker 1: the way it works. And whether maroon or orange or whatever.
Speaker 1: When you're Virginia Tech like that's all you own. You're like,
Speaker 1: you're just all in. Yeah, And so he was able
Speaker 1: to play on that. And you know, he's he's obviously
Speaker 1: a great motivator, right, um, you know, communicator and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he made it a point to get to
Speaker 1: know the students, you know, to to to really get
Speaker 1: out in the community and and uh, you know, be
Speaker 1: a be a voice you know from the basketball program.
Speaker 1: They we're here too, We're trying to do something special,
Speaker 1: you know, just just get on board with us. And uh,
Speaker 1: and the players obviously did the bulk of the work.
Speaker 1: You know, they began to have success and and and
Speaker 1: play a tough brand of basketball that that community really
Speaker 1: fell in love with. Like his teams were tough and
Speaker 1: that was all built in practices and and just a
Speaker 1: work ethic you know that that he established and you know,
Speaker 1: um yeah. So so then you went where left there
Speaker 1: and went to UNC Charlotte UM and worked for Alan
Speaker 1: Major at UNC Charlotte. So he was just leaving Ohio State.
Speaker 1: They've been in the Final four and at that point
Speaker 1: Charlotte was in the Atlantic ten UM and they were
Speaker 1: adding Buckler and v c U and and all the
Speaker 1: other teams that you know, I don't bother since left,
Speaker 1: but are currently in the in the league. And it
Speaker 1: was a big time league. Um, And it was a
Speaker 1: big time opportunity for me. Um. It was a chance
Speaker 1: for me to go work for a guy who's gonna
Speaker 1: be a first time head coach, and so I wanted
Speaker 1: to do that again, um, you know. And and it
Speaker 1: was home you know as well. I hadn't worked in
Speaker 1: North Carolina in a long time. My brother worked there
Speaker 1: for Loots, and so I knew the history of the program. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I felt like it was a Xavier kind
Speaker 1: of situation. You know, it was, Yeah, it was. I
Speaker 1: mean they were competitive with Cincinnati and Louis Villan and
Speaker 1: all those teams, and and uh, you know, while we
Speaker 1: didn't achieve everything that we wanted to achieve when we
Speaker 1: were there, we recruit some great guys and and you know,
Speaker 1: had a good experience. Without a doubt, I would trade
Speaker 1: that experience for anything he had. He you took over
Speaker 1: his interim I did. Yeah my last year. What what
Speaker 1: what first take me through the experience of when a
Speaker 1: coach and I think he had some health issues too, right,
Speaker 1: And then you know, and then, um, how did how
Speaker 1: how does it go down? How did it go down
Speaker 1: for you? And that you know, the A D comes
Speaker 1: in and says like, hey, you're the guy. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think it was how did how did it
Speaker 1: all work? Yeah? I mean it was it was the
Speaker 1: A D ended up, you know, communicating that to to
Speaker 1: all of us. But at the same time, Alan was
Speaker 1: intimately involved in, um, you know, in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: spearheading spearheading that and what was what was best, what
Speaker 1: he thought was best for the program. But there are
Speaker 1: other experienced assistant coaches on that staff. I mean Desmond, Oliver,
Speaker 1: Orlando and Ross both you know or friends to this day.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think our approach was we're just
Speaker 1: gonna do this together. Well I have to actually be
Speaker 1: the interim head coach. We're gonna do this thing together
Speaker 1: because that's the only way it's gonna work. And I
Speaker 1: didn't want that, that separation, UM, and so we kind
Speaker 1: of kept doing our jobs, you know, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we had the respect of the players and and and
Speaker 1: you know, obviously all three of us had kind of
Speaker 1: been intimately involved. We recruited together there a little bit
Speaker 1: differently than some other places that I've worked where it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you go recruit this guy and he's your guy and whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, we recruited together so that that part of
Speaker 1: it was not an issue. Our whole goal was to
Speaker 1: do the best for those players that we could do, UM,
Speaker 1: while understanding that you know, their leader was going to
Speaker 1: be gone for a bit and uh, we didn't know
Speaker 1: how long it would be ended up being that entire season,
Speaker 1: or not an entire season, but from January on, um,
Speaker 1: for the remainder of the year. And uh, and that
Speaker 1: was a hard ending for us. You know, I think
Speaker 1: we were I don't remember exactly what our record was,
Speaker 1: but we lost in the first round of the tournament
Speaker 1: in a really close game. UM. I think it might
Speaker 1: have been to middle at the time. I can't remember
Speaker 1: who it was. But um, anyway, UM, we were like
Speaker 1: eight and eleven. You know, we weren't We weren't great, obviously,
Speaker 1: but we weren't weren't terrible either. Um. We had some
Speaker 1: really good players, you know at that point. A lot
Speaker 1: of them went on to time majors after you know,
Speaker 1: outing them out and us would let go. Um and
Speaker 1: you know, we we Uh, it was a tough ending
Speaker 1: for us, for sure. And that was a dark time
Speaker 1: for me personally. Man, getting fired. We coach long enough,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fired. You know. It's just the way
Speaker 1: it is. So that's that's why I asked, Okay, So
Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the one of the
Speaker 1: hard things, uh, for fans and the media is the
Speaker 1: understanding of like when people get fired, like we just
Speaker 1: very callously go like, well, he should get fired and
Speaker 1: he he makes a bunch of money. Like holdo, man,
Speaker 1: you've got all these assistant coaches and while they're they're
Speaker 1: making decent livings, like they gotta go home and they
Speaker 1: have wives and kids and they're gonna move and they
Speaker 1: got to try and go find a job. Like it
Speaker 1: is a okay, so, uh, what do you remember about
Speaker 1: losing You lose your job in Charlotte? Then what what? What?
Speaker 1: What's that? Yeah? I mean I was devastated, you know,
Speaker 1: I was devastated. I felt like I let Allan down. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the players, Um, you know, obviously circumstances or circumstances.
Speaker 1: You know, we could have won some of the games
Speaker 1: we lost, but we didn't. Um, you know, and and
Speaker 1: you know it is what it is. The results were
Speaker 1: the results and no hard feelings. Obviously, they made the
Speaker 1: decision that they felt was right for the you know,
Speaker 1: the program at the time, and still have a good
Speaker 1: relationship with with with the folks there Charlotte. Um. But
Speaker 1: you know, for me personally, the biggest issue that I
Speaker 1: had going on, you know and my family was my
Speaker 1: son was sick. You know, it's been pretty well documented
Speaker 1: Connor as o c D. And so my wife was
Speaker 1: not hiding, but she was really during that time where
Speaker 1: I was the inner one cup. She was trying to
Speaker 1: keep it off of me. But he was getting worse,
Speaker 1: you know, as every day went and you know, it
Speaker 1: got to a point where the season ended and he
Speaker 1: was really really bad and uh you know you know that.
Speaker 1: I remember one weekend I had to take my youngest
Speaker 1: and and go down to Charleston just to get him
Speaker 1: out of the house. Um oh, and you know, just
Speaker 1: to get him away from you know, seeing Connor in
Speaker 1: a bad state. And Lucy just obviously it was an
Speaker 1: amazing uh force for Connor and h led us through that.
Speaker 1: And that's a hard deal. You know. They had two
Speaker 1: different stints you know, in in Nashville, Tennessee, doing therapy,
Speaker 1: you know, at a at a hospital. Um, and so
Speaker 1: she had to get up and move all the way
Speaker 1: out there with him, rent an apartment, which obviously costs money.
Speaker 1: You know. You think about that like all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we're fired, no job, She's gotta move to Nashville, you know,
Speaker 1: and we've got bills to pay, you know. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's not it's not going Anything's aren't going anywhere. And uh,
Speaker 1: during that time, I think he left in August, and
Speaker 1: he and Lucia left in August, and I had accepted
Speaker 1: a job at the nore Rhine University. I was very
Speaker 1: fortunate to get that job, and and a division two
Speaker 1: head job, um, you know, at at a place that um,
Speaker 1: you know, to this day, I wouldn't be where I'm at,
Speaker 1: you know, had I've not been presented with that opportunity,
Speaker 1: you know, and forever thankful for that for sure, saving
Speaker 1: our lives. Okay, So now you have your own program, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you've been at all sorts of different levels. You
Speaker 1: have your family, and you're trying to figure that out.
Speaker 1: How did you put together your first team and run? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think one of the things that I
Speaker 1: was lucky again, Um, you know, I followed a coach
Speaker 1: and John Lentz, you know, had been there for twenty
Speaker 1: eight years, and great coach. He's Rick Barnes, his teammate,
Speaker 1: you know, and they both played at the Noor Rude
Speaker 1: and uh, he was a coach that you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to describe him, but like his players,
Speaker 1: knew exactly what he wanted. He was a tough coach,
Speaker 1: all right. And so this this the team that I inherited,
Speaker 1: was very disciplined. And for a young coach to come
Speaker 1: in in that capacity to inherit guys, I mean they
Speaker 1: were they were already trained. He had well trained them.
Speaker 1: And so I walked into a great situation. Maybe we
Speaker 1: didn't have exactly you know, the talent you know that
Speaker 1: some of the other programs in that conference had. We
Speaker 1: were able to repeat and add a couple of guys that,
Speaker 1: you know, when when combined with the returners, ended up
Speaker 1: being you know, a storybook season for us UM. And
Speaker 1: you know, I found just some amazing players there. Still
Speaker 1: have amazing relationships with those guys to this day. Forever
Speaker 1: grateful for them, um, you know, for all their hard work.
Speaker 1: But that was a fun year. Man, Sweet sixteen had
Speaker 1: some great, great memories. So so you inherited a tough team,
Speaker 1: maybe not as talented as others that league. And then
Speaker 1: I lost. Yeah, we recruited. Then we added to that.
Speaker 1: We recruited a kid named Keenan Palmore who was transferring
Speaker 1: from Old Dominion and Jeff Jones and he had one
Speaker 1: year remaining and he played for Old Dominion. He was
Speaker 1: he was kind of a you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what you would call it back up maybe or whatever.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a full time starter. He did start some games,
Speaker 1: but um, you know, heading into a senior year as
Speaker 1: a parent, he was going to be a backup. But
Speaker 1: he didn't want to do that. And he found us
Speaker 1: in Lenora Run and you know, that connection was was
Speaker 1: very strong. He ended up being an All American. He
Speaker 1: had four or five triple doubles you know that year.
Speaker 1: And he was just an amaz easy player and he
Speaker 1: came into a group of guys with no ego. It
Speaker 1: was all about he was. He was an amazing passer.
Speaker 1: You love this about him, Like he literally made like
Speaker 1: to three pointers the entire year, and our team shattered
Speaker 1: the three point record you know for the conference, you know,
Speaker 1: all time shattered the record for uh Leonora Ryon and
Speaker 1: we were number one in in Division two and three
Speaker 1: pointers made per game at like right at thirteen, just
Speaker 1: under thirteen. But it was all because of him, Like
Speaker 1: he was getting guys shots over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: He was just getting the land and and get it
Speaker 1: to him. But he also knew that he wasn't at
Speaker 1: three point shooter, and so he ended up taking two
Speaker 1: shots at the end of shot clocks, you know, and
Speaker 1: I was in one of them went in, and I
Speaker 1: was hoping he was gonna get a whole season and
Speaker 1: not make pointing. I was actually quoting for that because
Speaker 1: what a story, right, everybody shoots the three now, and
Speaker 1: it's like care like he just wanted to get in
Speaker 1: the lane and you know, and and played to his strengths.
Speaker 1: But that was one of the reasons that we won.
Speaker 1: And and so then so what was your decision like
Speaker 1: to leave there? You know, it was it was a
Speaker 1: hard decision, and that was an emotional decision because I
Speaker 1: found some some guys there that changed my life and
Speaker 1: I love dearly. But at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: I understood that, you know, coaching, being a head coach
Speaker 1: in division one is a hard thing. It's hard to
Speaker 1: get those jobs and there are only three forty four
Speaker 1: or whatever that number is of them, and it's very competitive.
Speaker 1: And when you have an opportunity to do it, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big believer. Yeah, they're they're good jobs.
Speaker 1: They're they're certain jobs are better than others. But there's
Speaker 1: no bad division one. You go and make it. You
Speaker 1: can make it what you want to make it. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like UNBC was it was a
Speaker 1: great time to go here. You know, they had some
Speaker 1: some hard times, but they were building a brand new arena.
Speaker 1: We're in a geographic footprint that you know, basketball is important,
Speaker 1: like you were talking about, UM, and you know, I
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, we could build something special year.
Speaker 1: So what was your first team? Like first team again,
Speaker 1: I inherited a group, um just great guys. You know.
Speaker 1: I had guys on on the team that were four
Speaker 1: point those students. I had guys that had transferred, one
Speaker 1: transferred from DCU who ended up being you know, probably
Speaker 1: my best my best player, um, you know who would
Speaker 1: just happened there. As I began to have my meetings
Speaker 1: with the players while they hadn't one together at UNDC.
Speaker 1: One thing, one common theme was they had all one
Speaker 1: other places. You know. One one had played at Brewster
Speaker 1: Academy with Donovan Mitchell, you know, and they didn't lose
Speaker 1: a game. Uh you know. Another one played into Matha,
Speaker 1: you know, in in one Championships. And so as I
Speaker 1: went through that team, they all want elsewhere. And so
Speaker 1: it was all about and the coaches and one elsewhere,
Speaker 1: and so it was all about we made it. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's win together, Matt. We we all know what it
Speaker 1: feels like to win. Let's make sure that we're doing
Speaker 1: that every day. So my whole thing was we're gonna
Speaker 1: establish a winning culture, and that means we got to
Speaker 1: compete to win every day. And we compete with one
Speaker 1: another first, and we prepare, you know, for our opponents,
Speaker 1: and then we begin to compete compete against them. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this is and and again, if you're tight on time,
Speaker 1: you tell me. So this is so much fascinating to me.
Speaker 1: There hasn't been a job that you've gone to where
Speaker 1: And again, you know, there's probably some guys you're not mentioning,
Speaker 1: but most coaches confide in coaches and people like me,
Speaker 1: and they're like you know, wait to get my guys
Speaker 1: in here, right, and you know, and they run, they
Speaker 1: run guys off, They call them in and and they
Speaker 1: say like, look, man, you're a great kid. You're just
Speaker 1: never gonna play here, got YadA YadA, And they just
Speaker 1: buy time until their their recruits come in and now
Speaker 1: they're they're all in, which I always find to be
Speaker 1: a mistake. Yeah, is that why why do you it
Speaker 1: doesn't do not seem to have that. Is it because
Speaker 1: of the guys that proceeded you left you or is
Speaker 1: it that it's just a philosophical belief that you have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a belief. I mean for sure. I
Speaker 1: mean they chose that school for a reason, and you know,
Speaker 1: they chose those coaches, and they have a right to
Speaker 1: if they want to leave, you know, when you first
Speaker 1: get there, then that's fine. I'm not trying to hold anybody,
Speaker 1: hold anybody here. But if they want to stay, I
Speaker 1: want them to be able to. They have their scholarship,
Speaker 1: they want to they want to do that. I want
Speaker 1: them to do that. But they're gonna be a part
Speaker 1: of this program and do it the way we ask
Speaker 1: them to do it and and all that, um, But
Speaker 1: you know, I believe retention is a key thing. You know,
Speaker 1: and in any college basketball program or any endeavor for
Speaker 1: that matter. UM, you know, when you when have folks
Speaker 1: that you know are all in, you want to keep them.
Speaker 1: You know, you look at all the great college football
Speaker 1: and basketball programs over the years. You know, the head
Speaker 1: coach stays there. The assistant coaches, you know, for the
Speaker 1: most parts, stay there unless they're moving on to head jobs.
Speaker 1: Those are the teams that they usually went. UM And
Speaker 1: if you have a lot of volatility and change every year,
Speaker 1: and I know that's gonna be harder, you know, as
Speaker 1: they change these rules. I mean, it's just it is
Speaker 1: what it is. Um, Retention is a huge thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Like that, I guess, I guess this is an honest question.
Speaker 1: But why why do we we we seem to let
Speaker 1: these exterior forces be a part of this change when
Speaker 1: you and I have been around this our entire lives
Speaker 1: and we know that's actually not And look, I'm a
Speaker 1: transfer okay, but I and I was before I even
Speaker 1: got and I got in trouble, I was considering transferring.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that I think there's a there's
Speaker 1: a maybe another discussion. I think that one of the
Speaker 1: biggest issues is that you don't get enough time to
Speaker 1: truly recruit somebody and know that kid and him know
Speaker 1: you so that so that when you when he shows
Speaker 1: up on campus, you actually know what you got on
Speaker 1: both sides, right, And I think that would I think
Speaker 1: that would help. But it feels like we're all like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just the times to transfer and not
Speaker 1: sit out like why but because somebody on the on
Speaker 1: on Twitter who's never been a part of it doesn't
Speaker 1: understand that every freshman wants to transfer. They all they
Speaker 1: want to transfer to the NBA or to another school,
Speaker 1: right because, But but you know what else, Almost every
Speaker 1: college kid wants to transfer because your freshman year is hard.
Speaker 1: It's really hard that classes are hard and you're away
Speaker 1: from home, you have to manage a budget, it to
Speaker 1: mends your time, your demands, your relationships. Like it's really hard,
Speaker 1: you know. I feel for the kids are freshman right now.
Speaker 1: This is their first experience in college. My son's one
Speaker 1: of them, and it's just, you know, it's not normal.
Speaker 1: You know, you're getting your nose poked and tested constantly,
Speaker 1: and you know you gotta go back to your dorm
Speaker 1: room or your wherever you live, and you know, I
Speaker 1: can't be exposed to anyone. It's just not a normal situation.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know it's it's uh, everybody sacrificed, and
Speaker 1: certainly this year, you know, hopefully we'll get back to
Speaker 1: normal at some point. Okay, so how did you how
Speaker 1: did you make it hit? Like? What what? When? When?
Speaker 1: When did it like this is gonna work? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I think that first year. I mean I I
Speaker 1: called that team the foundational team, you know, and we
Speaker 1: compared it to a house. You know, when you establish
Speaker 1: a foundation, that foundation has got to be strong. I
Speaker 1: can't have any cracks in and I inherited some great guys,
Speaker 1: and I going back to the culture thing, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to create a winning culture. And you know, going
Speaker 1: back to what you said, it's not about what the
Speaker 1: previous staff did or saying, oh they have bad culture
Speaker 1: or whatever. We're trying to change the culture now. We're
Speaker 1: not trying to do that. We're trying to establish our
Speaker 1: own winning culture. I don't I don't care what happened before.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that every day that they
Speaker 1: come in here, they're trying to win and you know
Speaker 1: that means against one another, whether it's a one on
Speaker 1: one drill or whatever. It is, like, we're gonna be competitive,
Speaker 1: and if you're not, you're fooling yourself because when the
Speaker 1: game happens, you're gonna get beat, you know, on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. And you know, this game is played with physicality.
Speaker 1: It's played, you know, with the physical side of things,
Speaker 1: but it's also played, you know, on the mental side
Speaker 1: of things, and if you don't have both, you know
Speaker 1: you're gonna get beat. And so we spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time, you know, with our guys working on working
Speaker 1: on both, and you know, and then you know, I
Speaker 1: think the distractions are are a big part of why
Speaker 1: teams don't win. And I was very fortunate that first
Speaker 1: year did not have many distractions in terms of all
Speaker 1: the court things that can derail you know, a team
Speaker 1: and its ability to to go for it. These guys
Speaker 1: were all in um and yeah we weren't great, but
Speaker 1: we still want twenty one games. They had won prior
Speaker 1: to that seven straight twenty glass season. And so this kid,
Speaker 1: this team, you know, had the biggest turnaround in Division One.
Speaker 1: You know that that year, and you know, while we
Speaker 1: didn't win our goal or make our goal when they
Speaker 1: make the ns A tournament. It was evident that everybody
Speaker 1: was coming back and we had a chance to be
Speaker 1: really good that next year. Now we were gonna still
Speaker 1: have to beat you know, Vermon team. It was spectacular,
Speaker 1: you know, Um, so Simes, when guys come back. Sometimes
Speaker 1: when guys came back, it's kind of a good thing,
Speaker 1: right because because they have they have, everybody expects more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fans expect more, but everybody expects expects more. Um, what
Speaker 1: was that next year? Like? Well, the next year it
Speaker 1: was the n c A tournament year and you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we got off to a good start. Um, we did
Speaker 1: have a few injuries. You know, we're Jari's m A
Speaker 1: game or two Jordan's MR game or two my my
Speaker 1: kind of guards there kJ miss the first two games.
Speaker 1: It was the starting point guard. Um. You know when
Speaker 1: we played Arizona and s MU and so you know,
Speaker 1: I knew we had a chance when we were playing
Speaker 1: Arizona and you know, they couldn't really separate them until
Speaker 1: the very end. Um, you know, they would get out
Speaker 1: you know, eight nine points and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden we'd close it back. You know, and then halftime
Speaker 1: we're down seven or eight or something like that, and
Speaker 1: they'd get it out to sixteen and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, it's three. You know that that particular team
Speaker 1: was resilient. And we played that particular game without kJ Marrow,
Speaker 1: who ended up it was our point guard, um, kind
Speaker 1: of the maestro of the whole team. Um, And we
Speaker 1: were still in it. And so I felt like this
Speaker 1: particular team had a chance, you know, do something special
Speaker 1: at least in the non conference. Uh told me that.
Speaker 1: And then once we got into conference play, we were
Speaker 1: pretty consistent. You know. We we lost even though we
Speaker 1: lost her Vermont twice, we only lost one other game,
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, in conference play, and so
Speaker 1: we knew, you know, if we wanted to make it eventually,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to go through Vermont, you know at
Speaker 1: that point, and uh, you know, obviously we were able
Speaker 1: to do that in the final game. What's that experience like?
Speaker 1: Because everybody focuses on the Virginia game, but but the
Speaker 1: Vermont game gets you actually like, that's that's the big one.
Speaker 1: That's the one that the rest of dicy Yeah, what
Speaker 1: do you what do you remember about that game? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it was just a hotly contested game. Uh,
Speaker 1: places packed obviously. UM, I think we're up maybe a
Speaker 1: couple at half, and and we were fortunate to be up.
Speaker 1: I mean they were they were playing well. We made
Speaker 1: some shots at the end of the half just to
Speaker 1: just to kind of that out. Um. You know what
Speaker 1: I remember most is kJ our point guard getting his
Speaker 1: fourth foul with about eight minutes to go or twelve
Speaker 1: nights to go, and I was like, oh crap, we're
Speaker 1: in trouble here, and we kind of locked into something,
Speaker 1: you know, that particular game. I put him back in early,
Speaker 1: and I changed the matchup, you know, for who he
Speaker 1: was gonna guard, and I put him on a shooter,
Speaker 1: which wasn't a normal thing for us. You know, he
Speaker 1: always guarded the other team's point guard. He was defensive
Speaker 1: player of the Year that year. Um, even though he's
Speaker 1: five seven and so he would always pestor like your
Speaker 1: son pestor the other team's boy card and her mind
Speaker 1: had a great point for that year. Tray Belle Haynes
Speaker 1: was spectacular. He was hard to pester her, and we
Speaker 1: ended up moving the match up and put a bigger
Speaker 1: guy on Belle Haynes and kJ ended up Garden the shooter,
Speaker 1: and so it allowed him to kind of stay in
Speaker 1: the game longer, you know, without risking a foul um
Speaker 1: And so that was a huge key. And then at
Speaker 1: the end, you know, obviously Jared's was Jared's. Jared's worked
Speaker 1: really hard for that moment, and you know, I could
Speaker 1: have been more proud of him and the growth that
Speaker 1: he showed over the two years that I was fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to coach him. He was a great player, a
Speaker 1: great score, dynamic player. He was the best player in
Speaker 1: the league to me that year, even though he didn't
Speaker 1: get Player of the Year um. And for him to
Speaker 1: have the ball at the end of the game in
Speaker 1: that moment was the right thing and it was the
Speaker 1: way it should have ended. And uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: wanted to run another play, and Kj's yelling at me, no,
Speaker 1: don't run that play because it required him to give
Speaker 1: the ball up, and so I hadn't trust What did
Speaker 1: you want? What did you want to run? So I
Speaker 1: wanted to run just one of our plays called euro Too,
Speaker 1: where you know, kJ starts it and then he flips
Speaker 1: it back to jareds Jared's gets it, you know, a
Speaker 1: pick and roll screen comes out and then he's able
Speaker 1: to kind of get downhill and make the play. And
Speaker 1: it would have required Jared's already had the ball and
Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't called it time out right, Um,
Speaker 1: And so that is that typically your style in terms
Speaker 1: of not calling a time out usually yeah, usually, you know,
Speaker 1: I like to like my guys will be able to
Speaker 1: know what to do in those instances. Um. Not to
Speaker 1: say that I won't call it time outs, I certainly will,
Speaker 1: you know if if it's not going well. Um, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, I like to be
Speaker 1: able to coach from the side there where they can't
Speaker 1: get it set and like the up and trust my
Speaker 1: guys and and that particular team, I had no reason
Speaker 1: not to trust them. Um, you know, three really good
Speaker 1: guards that you know knew what to do. And I've
Speaker 1: never understood there's a lot of there's lots of coaches
Speaker 1: who like, not only you practice this all year, you
Speaker 1: play it all year right in front of your bench. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yet they want to call it time out, which
Speaker 1: allows the other guy to set their defense. Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't understand, I really, for the life made don't
Speaker 1: understand still. Um, and and sometimes you know, you want
Speaker 1: to get somebody in or whatever for a match up,
Speaker 1: but I don't understand anyway. Okay, so he has the ball.
Speaker 1: What what? What's My job at that point was to
Speaker 1: get everybody the hell out of the way, get it
Speaker 1: get its space, baby, get it space. Letting go. And
Speaker 1: he delivered, you know, he delivered. So it's not complicated,
Speaker 1: right the sele so double zeros in the cloth. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you look up what you look up at the scoreboard,
Speaker 1: You look at your family, like, what what? What do
Speaker 1: you remember about the moment? Yeah, I mean I remember
Speaker 1: hugging my kid. I remember hugging my wife, you know,
Speaker 1: and and every player. Um, you know, I remember having
Speaker 1: a moment with my A d you know, leaved in
Speaker 1: me and our staff. He's crying, you know, we're all crying. Um.
Speaker 1: My best friend in the world, Griff Aldrich, who is
Speaker 1: now the coach of Longwood. Um, you know it was
Speaker 1: a lawyer, uh in in my college teammate. Uh decided
Speaker 1: he wanted to coach, you know. Um, and he came. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he came with me when I first came to NBC.
Speaker 1: And uh so he and I were hugging big time.
Speaker 1: You know, to have that experience with your best friend,
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty cool. Um. And so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it was an emotional time. I mean that game
Speaker 1: is way more emotional than you know, the Virginia game obviously,
Speaker 1: um not obviously, but for us it was because you
Speaker 1: know how it is, you it comes down to that
Speaker 1: one weekend, like you have the best season. We just experienced,
Speaker 1: it comes down, it comes down. We were the number
Speaker 1: one seed. We got knocked out. You know, the other
Speaker 1: team gets hot at the end and in the last
Speaker 1: eight minutes and hey, the season's over. You walk in
Speaker 1: the locker room and like what just happened? You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. Um. So so you get back and
Speaker 1: that championships a little bit early, right, so now you
Speaker 1: you gotta gotta get ready. What what what was Selection Sunday?
Speaker 1: Like Selection Sunday? It was fun. You know, they had
Speaker 1: a big party on campus and you know the typical thing, uh,
Speaker 1: CBS wanted to do that in person whatever live looking
Speaker 1: you know with us, you know, because it was our
Speaker 1: first time going to the tournament since two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: and we had a you know, a crazy envy obviously
Speaker 1: in in the conference final, and so that was great,
Speaker 1: and then you know we see Virginia's name pop up.
Speaker 1: I was expecting, quite honestly, to be a fifteen. We
Speaker 1: had a good team that year. Um, I felt our
Speaker 1: numbers would be such that we would be in that
Speaker 1: fifteen line. And so I was really thinking, Duke, you know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking some of those teams that were on
Speaker 1: the two line that we would end up playing. And
Speaker 1: uh so I was a little bit shocked, and I did.
Speaker 1: We all did a collective gulp and gas we saw
Speaker 1: Virginia because they were just so good that year. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were so good and we didn't know Hunter was
Speaker 1: going to be out at that point, you know. Um
Speaker 1: So it was just and and for me, a lot
Speaker 1: of emotions because I grew up there, you know, going
Speaker 1: back to that, you know, I grew up there. That's
Speaker 1: where I first fell in love with Hoops. You know,
Speaker 1: we got a lot of respect for me and his staff.
Speaker 1: So it was it was that that part was was
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Um um, you know, at the bridge
Speaker 1: and everything and Terry Holland staff. Okay, so you're throwing
Speaker 1: the tape, yeah, and you're sitting there with your staff.
Speaker 1: What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I thought this
Speaker 1: is the best team in college basketball. They're the most
Speaker 1: well balanced team on both sides of the ball. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, are we gonna be able to score thirty six?
Speaker 1: You know? And that's the reality. That's what every coach
Speaker 1: when you're you know, ready to play Virginia, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, they may not they may not go to
Speaker 1: eighty on you, all right, but can you get the forty?
Speaker 1: You know? I mean that's the reality. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: they're gonna get the sixty. Most likely, they're probably gonna
Speaker 1: get the seventy if they want. They don't really go
Speaker 1: past that very often, at least in that that era,
Speaker 1: they didn't. Um, you know, I've seen them play teams
Speaker 1: earlier in the year that they held the thirty six
Speaker 1: points n c A tournament teams, and so we knew
Speaker 1: we we had a tough, tough task, a tough draw.
Speaker 1: One of the things that helped us with that draw
Speaker 1: was weeks of preparation. You know. For Vermont, you know,
Speaker 1: they play a similar brand of defense. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: they guard you hard, but they they don't allow threes.
Speaker 1: You know, they guard the two extremely well. At the
Speaker 1: rim the rotations or pristine um. And so we had
Speaker 1: a lot of prep you know, leading into the Virginia games,
Speaker 1: that type of defense UM and that that certainly helped
Speaker 1: us offensively. When did you know what Hunter was up? Uh?
Speaker 1: Not until we were on the plane going down there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that was probably on a Wednesday, maybe two or
Speaker 1: three days before the game something like that. I think
Speaker 1: that's about what we figured it out, all right, And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're like, wait a second, hold on,
Speaker 1: this is a it's a that's a great deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. Yeah, because whenever they needed
Speaker 1: a basket, they were going to him, you know, and
Speaker 1: like and sometimes it was a post up you know
Speaker 1: whatever if they ever got dicey, you know, they were
Speaker 1: running something to get him the ball in and near
Speaker 1: the basket or in kind of a mid post area
Speaker 1: or up near the elbow and is so situation. And
Speaker 1: so I knew he would be a problem. Not that
Speaker 1: I felt like we could guard all the other guys,
Speaker 1: but you know, I knew that had the potential to
Speaker 1: change it someone you know, um, at least at least
Speaker 1: it did. It certainly didn't hurt. Let's just say that,
Speaker 1: but it also it also defensively changed them because now
Speaker 1: they had to play two traditional bigs, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know, so okay, so you know, I know how
Speaker 1: it works. I've been in those locker rooms, and I've
Speaker 1: never been in the locker room work. You know, couldn't
Speaker 1: make you believe you had a chance, and that if
Speaker 1: you execute the game plan, like we're gonna win this game, fellas,
Speaker 1: and here's how we're gonna do it, and you're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, and um, what was the belief
Speaker 1: level like from your team in your prep? I knew
Speaker 1: never to doubt that particular team, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: saying that we you know, I would never say that
Speaker 1: we knew we were gonna win the game. You know.
Speaker 1: Our Our goal was to be competitive in the game
Speaker 1: and to the end the game and to have a
Speaker 1: chance at the end. I mean that that was really
Speaker 1: our whole focus. Obviously, the result ended up being totally different,
Speaker 1: you know, than what anybody ever imagined. But it was
Speaker 1: about how are we going to stay in it on
Speaker 1: offensive defense? And we felt like the defense was the
Speaker 1: way for us to stay in the game. To be honest, like,
Speaker 1: we knew scoring on them was gonna be insane, insanely difficult,
Speaker 1: and so we felt like we had a very good
Speaker 1: defensive team that year, and our goal was pressure those
Speaker 1: guards as much as you can um and and not
Speaker 1: allow them to center the ball. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: kind of our whole, our whole thing. So you you
Speaker 1: felt like your defense was the way in which you'd
Speaker 1: win you you'd win the game, right, Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: felt like defense was our way to stay in the game.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't want our guys like when you played
Speaker 1: a Virginia Virginia team, frustration sets in, you know how
Speaker 1: it is you were a player, Like if you're not
Speaker 1: scoring sometimes that that could impact the defense down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your defense that breakdown. And so that was awful message
Speaker 1: to them, like we can't get seduced into an offensive
Speaker 1: game against them or get frustrated because our offens isn't
Speaker 1: going well. We have to guard every single possession like
Speaker 1: it's the last one. And we we we we did
Speaker 1: some specific things relative to them and how they run
Speaker 1: that movie blocker and all that. We felt like we
Speaker 1: needed to pressure them. We had seen a lot of
Speaker 1: teams just back up, you know, and and not get
Speaker 1: after them. We had seen a lot of teams not
Speaker 1: try to run them, you know as well, because they
Speaker 1: do a good job of getting back on defense and transition,
Speaker 1: and we I wanted our guys to take the opportunities
Speaker 1: early in transition if they were there, because you're not
Speaker 1: just gonna be able to hold the ball against them
Speaker 1: and move it around and get a great shot. Like
Speaker 1: sometimes the best shot you can get against them is early,
Speaker 1: and so I wanted our guys to try to do
Speaker 1: that and if they had it, let's roll with it.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, don't take a bad We
Speaker 1: practice all week shooting against hands, you know, and pressure,
Speaker 1: because they're always gonna be there pretty much at front
Speaker 1: of you, and you're gonna have we practice well behind
Speaker 1: the line shooting threes because we knew, you know, those
Speaker 1: are the shots that that you can get against them.
Speaker 1: We were honest with our team about like, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna win this game, you're gonna have to outshoot them,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to keep them from shooting threes.
Speaker 1: It can't just be take away the rim and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're getting ten threes as well.
Speaker 1: Just like us. We're not gonna win with that, And
Speaker 1: so we had to take away their three, defend like
Speaker 1: crazy and rebound and we had to make threes, you know,
Speaker 1: layups basically. I mean that's really the gameplay wasn't was
Speaker 1: much more than that, Yeah, I mean like you also
Speaker 1: spread amount, yeah, of course, yeah. I mean we changed
Speaker 1: our angles on our ball screens and all that we
Speaker 1: did set in middles you know, because they they're so
Speaker 1: well schooled, it's stepping out. We said, all flats. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that was that was kind of the you know,
Speaker 1: the game playing there. I think that's my I think
Speaker 1: that's one thing though that like you know, now a
Speaker 1: couple of years later, maybe you still don't get creditable.
Speaker 1: Wasn't just because people go back, well they didn't have
Speaker 1: DeAndre Hunter, so you know, like no, you guys did
Speaker 1: some specific things that made it really way more difficult.
Speaker 1: You knew how because because they are they were And
Speaker 1: this is where I had a I had a long
Speaker 1: conversation with Tony like a week later, and I and
Speaker 1: and my my message to him was like you can't.
Speaker 1: You can't just do what you do and you have
Speaker 1: to try different things, play left hand. It's um, you know,
Speaker 1: figure out a way. I mean, like, okay, Hunter gets hurt.
Speaker 1: What lineups had you tried all year long? You know,
Speaker 1: in in case, what if you got three fouls in
Speaker 1: the first half? You know, what if a kid what
Speaker 1: if a kid is sick? And uh and and what
Speaker 1: if a team knows what you do and designs and
Speaker 1: as personnel to execute and make you chase him? So
Speaker 1: I think you don't to this day, I just we
Speaker 1: don't cover things the way I mean, I just wish
Speaker 1: there was like a college basketball matchup show where I go, like,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just that they made a bunch of threes,
Speaker 1: it was they did some things specifically because we're fascinating
Speaker 1: and that you should get credit for. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: get to the game. Um, games can be won and
Speaker 1: lost in layup lines. Question. Right when the guys started speaking,
Speaker 1: they go home, they look good. We we we don't. Um,
Speaker 1: what did you when you looked your team in the eye?
Speaker 1: What did you see when you're standing in front of them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I saw I saw a bunch of guys
Speaker 1: that had never looked and that were including myself. You
Speaker 1: know that you know had an opportunity. You know, I
Speaker 1: had an opportunity, and I felt like there was a
Speaker 1: reason that we were in that building at that moment.
Speaker 1: What that reason was, I wasn't quite sure. I wasn't
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily think that we were gonna win the
Speaker 1: game going into that right. And while I'm giving that speech,
Speaker 1: but my speech to them prior to that game was
Speaker 1: a thankful one. I thank those guys for bringing me
Speaker 1: and my family back to Shark where I was let go.
Speaker 1: That was it, you know, I just said, look, you
Speaker 1: know this this you know, this business is extremely hard
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. We all have our own stories, right.
Speaker 1: Jared started at VCU with Shaka, didn't go well. He
Speaker 1: ends up at Robert Morris, stays there for half the year,
Speaker 1: then he lands at the U NBC kJ. You know,
Speaker 1: he gets let go at Texas A and m Corpus
Speaker 1: Christy and uh, you know, has to go to JUCO
Speaker 1: for a year, you know, uh, rehabilitates himself and then
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a Division one offer except for us
Speaker 1: and ends up there. Joe Sherburn had one D one offer,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was umb see, like you go
Speaker 1: around the room and it was just like a bunch
Speaker 1: of overlooked guys. You know that it had that had
Speaker 1: a story. And I said, we're all here in this
Speaker 1: moment together. We've done this together, you know, at this time.
Speaker 1: Then you guys in particular have done this for me,
Speaker 1: and so I'm forever grateful, you know, for what you
Speaker 1: guys have done. Now let's go out there and just
Speaker 1: show everybody our passion and and and belief in one another.
Speaker 1: You know that we can compete with this team. And
Speaker 1: you know, I shed some tears, I'll be quite frank
Speaker 1: with you. You know while I was giving that speech,
Speaker 1: and it was very emotional. Um, and that was, you know,
Speaker 1: not the first time I do that with my team,
Speaker 1: not all the time, but you know, I'm real and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think they appreciated that they understood the
Speaker 1: message and more than anything, they were ready. They knew
Speaker 1: they had an opportunity to make history, and so they
Speaker 1: wanted to go for it. And uh, you know, there
Speaker 1: were some bumps in that first half, but the defense
Speaker 1: kept us okay. So so so and I remember I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there watching the game and I said, I went
Speaker 1: with a group of guys and I go, they got them,
Speaker 1: and they're like, it's like, Virginia is gonna kick their
Speaker 1: ass in the second half. You know how this goes? Right?
Speaker 1: Like they got I said, they said they can't guard them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can't. They're they're they're too quick. They can't guard
Speaker 1: the ball, you know. And the it's the it's the
Speaker 1: what we always learned. We try and tell kids all
Speaker 1: the time. It's like, hey man, you want to get
Speaker 1: on the floor. Yeah, the first thing you have to
Speaker 1: be able to do is guard the basketball, right, And
Speaker 1: it's the best thing that they do in Virginia. And
Speaker 1: I felt like you had them spread out, they were
Speaker 1: kind of chasing. They were chasing yet and I was like,
Speaker 1: if they could just hit a couple, hit a couple
Speaker 1: of jump shots, you know, they just they can't. It's
Speaker 1: a bad matchup because you got there. You got their
Speaker 1: big thirty feet from the basket chasing you around. And
Speaker 1: and um, what's the name of that big white kid
Speaker 1: that that Virginia had did a great name? Salt Jack,
Speaker 1: Salt Jack, salt right Jack. Salt is a great name.
Speaker 1: But I've done their game, I think earlier in the
Speaker 1: year when they had played in um Deston, Florida and
Speaker 1: I and I loved him, and I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know those tough twos, you know, back to
Speaker 1: the baths, get post up two is like, there's a
Speaker 1: reason analytics tell you those are a tough shot, and
Speaker 1: you guys are playing the post, right, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think Jack Salt can score twenty
Speaker 1: and I think that you guys can hit some threes.
Speaker 1: And the guys around like, watch this ship. They're gonna
Speaker 1: you know, BC's gonna score ten in the second half. Okay,
Speaker 1: So come in there, you come in in half, okay.
Speaker 1: And the way it works is, hey, the the players
Speaker 1: run in and you meet your staff. What's your staff said?
Speaker 1: I think they were optimistic, you know, I mean they
Speaker 1: always get really good thoughts, and when we talked about
Speaker 1: offense first, and then we talked about the defense and
Speaker 1: just little little things that we need to pay attention to.
Speaker 1: And so really halftime was about, you know, highlighting things
Speaker 1: that we tried to do going into the game to
Speaker 1: actually get them done. Uh in first half or did
Speaker 1: we not? I thought we did. You know, I felt
Speaker 1: like we were good on the glass. They got a
Speaker 1: couple of offensive rebounds, but we were pretty solid there.
Speaker 1: I think offensively you know. Pressure. Our pressure was was solid. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, they were able, they were able to just
Speaker 1: get into the paint constantly on us, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And I felt like our ability to navigate the screens
Speaker 1: like that was a big We work on that a
Speaker 1: ton alright, navigating defending that mover blocker because you know,
Speaker 1: you go as soon as you go the wrong way,
Speaker 1: they make you pay with the three R. And so
Speaker 1: our our goal was we we compared it to Tom Brady.
Speaker 1: If you let Tom Brady sit back and hide, get
Speaker 1: as the point guard and and just you know, see everything,
Speaker 1: he's gonna pick him with him heart. And so we said,
Speaker 1: pressure the guy. I don't care who it is, if
Speaker 1: the big guy has it out top, if the point
Speaker 1: guard has it. Whoever that guy is that's going from
Speaker 1: the wing centering the ball, try to keep him on
Speaker 1: his side and just pressure the crap out of him
Speaker 1: just to disrupt the timing of their screening angles and
Speaker 1: to give the defender time to get through. And so
Speaker 1: we worked on that a ton, and I thought that
Speaker 1: was pretty successful for us. You know, we were always
Speaker 1: kind of there when they caught the ball. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was the key. I don't care which lady you go,
Speaker 1: just be right there when you catch him, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought that was a big key for us.
Speaker 1: And then offensively, our guys felt like, hey, we missed
Speaker 1: some shots out there. You know we can we can
Speaker 1: we can get some shots against them. We just got
Speaker 1: to knock him in. And you know, we got off
Speaker 1: to a good start right out of the right out
Speaker 1: of the gate out a halftime and uh, which was
Speaker 1: not an un uh something that I hadn't seen before
Speaker 1: with this team. This team is you know, they've they've
Speaker 1: been tied at half and then come out and and
Speaker 1: and gone on runs, you know, big runs, you know,
Speaker 1: at times during the season. But I would also say
Speaker 1: it wasn't an unnatural position for Virginia. Either they've been
Speaker 1: tied or down one or up to plenty of times,
Speaker 1: you know, like stuff. For them, there was no reason
Speaker 1: for concern at that point. It was just, Hey, we're
Speaker 1: gonna win the game. You know, we're gonna figure it out.
Speaker 1: So when did you know after? I mean I probably
Speaker 1: I probably knew that we had a a significant chance
Speaker 1: around that eight minute time out right in there, Like
Speaker 1: we had a we had a solid chance because we
Speaker 1: had gone up so so much, and I had seen
Speaker 1: our team. My job at that point was, hey, don't
Speaker 1: take the foot off the gas, because as soon as
Speaker 1: you take the foot off again, you start you start
Speaker 1: coughing the ball up. You know, they lay it up,
Speaker 1: you know, because they're gonna change the way that they're playing, like,
Speaker 1: they're gonna come after you. They're gonna value more. They're
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna hope that the rest don't call it. Uh,
Speaker 1: They're just gonna go for it. They're gonna shoot it quicker. Um,
Speaker 1: can we get the rebounds? You know, because they're shooting
Speaker 1: it quicker like all those in Play Fallward. I think
Speaker 1: that's what I kept saying, Playfallward, taking when it's there,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know the guys ended up doing that,
Speaker 1: and and the the Again, the parts of the story
Speaker 1: that aren't told enough are it wasn't like you hit
Speaker 1: a miracle shot. Yeah right. It wasn't like some things
Speaker 1: that go you got a crazy call. It was a
Speaker 1: no doubt, it was a blowout. What are those moments
Speaker 1: like as you're looking up and no, it's because I'll
Speaker 1: just and I know again, I understand you've been gracious
Speaker 1: for your time. My first game calling a game in
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament. Second excuse me was um
Speaker 1: Southern against Glenzaga and and and Glenzaga end up losing
Speaker 1: the next game, uh to whitch Top, but it was
Speaker 1: tied or Southern was leading with four minutes to go,
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there with Spirodidas and we're sitting there
Speaker 1: going holy shit, like and you know, Southern's got this
Speaker 1: incredible band, but it's in Salt Lake City and suddenly
Speaker 1: there's like sixteen thousand and Southern fans Like what going on? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So what what are those? What's that? What are those minutes?
Speaker 1: Like it's like five minutes ago, you're up fifteen on Virginia.
Speaker 1: No one's ever done before. You're kicking their ass. They're
Speaker 1: chasing you around, like what it's out of body experience? What?
Speaker 1: What is what? What? What? What is that? Like? I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: you're coaching the game, Betwe mean, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: anything crazy. You know, like you're you're in the game.
Speaker 1: You you're a player, like you've coached too. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like you're you're just trying to get to the end.
Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to do your best for your
Speaker 1: team to get hurry up. You're a nervous wreck. You're
Speaker 1: a nervous wreck. You're nervous that you know the fouls
Speaker 1: they're gonna start, because at the end of games like that,
Speaker 1: they started driving to the basket over and over it.
Speaker 1: I was worried, we're gonna stop the clock every time,
Speaker 1: you know, with fouls, and they were gonna shoot. It
Speaker 1: was gonna be a parade in the free throw line.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I learned long ago Dad used
Speaker 1: to always start looking at that when he had leads.
Speaker 1: He'd started looking at the all right, what do I
Speaker 1: need to get to? All right, they can't get to
Speaker 1: you know what I mean from a number standpoint, And
Speaker 1: so that was why I just encouraged me to keep
Speaker 1: keep trying to score. If it's there, you know, take
Speaker 1: it when it's there, because we were we were clearly
Speaker 1: shooting it well, so there was no reason to not
Speaker 1: not do that. But yeah, didn't it all hit me
Speaker 1: as soon as we we let that the clock clock
Speaker 1: go shot clock. We had a shock clock violation, and
Speaker 1: it was just like a wave of emotion. It was
Speaker 1: kind of like, Wow, this thing really happened. Who account?
Speaker 1: What now? How do you even play the next? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I wrote on the board at the end
Speaker 1: of that game, I went there, I wrote zero and one, right,
Speaker 1: and I exed out the zero and I wrote one,
Speaker 1: and I said, you guys are the one. And then
Speaker 1: below that I wrote zero and zero, and I said,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be a shame, all right if we were
Speaker 1: still thinking about being the one up here in this
Speaker 1: one and one? Yeah, one and one, and we didn't
Speaker 1: take advantage of the zero and zero the first sixteens opportunity?
Speaker 1: All right, there's a responsibility that goes without And so
Speaker 1: let's all focus for the next two days and and
Speaker 1: do our best, you know, to to play our best,
Speaker 1: you know, give our best from a from a preparation standpoint,
Speaker 1: do our best with the distractions while still having fun
Speaker 1: with it, and and go for it. And the guys
Speaker 1: did that. You know. We were in the game. We
Speaker 1: couldn't score basket, but neither Kansas State, and so it
Speaker 1: was a it was a knockdown drag out to the end. Um.
Speaker 1: I think we had eighteen chances, you know, to take
Speaker 1: the lead in that game, and we weren't able to
Speaker 1: do it. But one of the coolest moments for me
Speaker 1: was before the game ever started. You know, I'm in
Speaker 1: the locker room and you know it is you'r. You
Speaker 1: talked to your team and then then go out, and
Speaker 1: I was in the locker room by myself, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was probably a minute and a half after they
Speaker 1: left where I could hear the entire arena go berserk,
Speaker 1: and I knew exactly what it was this crew that
Speaker 1: nobody cared about. They were going for them, and so
Speaker 1: that that made me happy without a doubt. Okay, so
Speaker 1: now we're a couple of years removed, and now you're
Speaker 1: you were the one seed, you were the big dog,
Speaker 1: and you got upset. Yeah. Um, And the the problem
Speaker 1: with UNBC is you're not gonna get a chance to
Speaker 1: go back to the tournament because just that's just not
Speaker 1: the way the conference is you Yeah, he has there
Speaker 1: in the In the couple of days since you lost,
Speaker 1: has there been a moment of I should have taken
Speaker 1: one of those big jobs. No, not at all, because
Speaker 1: I love this you know, I love this place. You know,
Speaker 1: I love everything about it. You know, but I understand
Speaker 1: what it is. I understand how hard it is, you know,
Speaker 1: at this level. Um, but you know this, this team,
Speaker 1: I told my team after we lost the other day,
Speaker 1: no one can ever take away you want a regular
Speaker 1: season championship. That's not easy to do like that hadn't
Speaker 1: been done here since two thous eight and even the
Speaker 1: team that went on to be Virginia didn't do that.
Speaker 1: And so they have a lot to be proud of,
Speaker 1: especially in a in a year where there were so
Speaker 1: many other obstacles outside of basketball that they had to
Speaker 1: navigate just to be able to have a chance act.
Speaker 1: And so no, I'm thankful for the opportunity to coach
Speaker 1: you know BC. I love the school, I love the
Speaker 1: people here. Um, you know I understand. You know what
Speaker 1: it is. You have to win in March, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's what you sign up for. And the pressures
Speaker 1: of that, you know, it's it can it's so rewarding,
Speaker 1: but it can be heartbreaking at the same time, like
Speaker 1: what we're experiencing right now, and it's like your numb
Speaker 1: for two days. You know, you don't even want to
Speaker 1: watch another game because you put so much into it. Um,
Speaker 1: But you know, it is what it is. That's that's
Speaker 1: why March Madness is March madness last thing. Yeah, will
Speaker 1: you secretly cheer against sixteen sees so you're the only
Speaker 1: you're the only one. My wife will? My wife definitely will.
Speaker 1: But no, I don't. I didn't want to say, what,
Speaker 1: Virginia's a one seat in Virginia's a one seat again.
Speaker 1: I know they won't be this year or that they
Speaker 1: were the other year. I'm definitely not cheering against them.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to have experiencing they don't once
Speaker 1: it's plenty. What what was that experience like to watch
Speaker 1: them win the national championship just a year after you
Speaker 1: guys did what you did. No, it was tremendous. I
Speaker 1: mean it was. It was extremely exciting for me because
Speaker 1: you know, we were part of a part of their story,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know it's really neat. We had
Speaker 1: our own story, but they, you know, we were part
Speaker 1: of theirs as well, which were the two schools a
Speaker 1: place where I grew up. You know, I'm forever connected
Speaker 1: to that, you know, which is pretty neat. And I
Speaker 1: know it wasn't a good memory, but it turned out
Speaker 1: to be a good memory for Virginia basketball and Virginia
Speaker 1: fans because it led them to a national championship, which
Speaker 1: is you know what it's all about. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how appreciative by your time put up with some
Speaker 1: technical difficulties. I know you gotta go. Let's catch up
Speaker 1: in person very very soon. Thanks so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time. I was, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: My best to your family, same to you. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I knew you would appreciate it. It was long, it
Speaker 1: was thoughtful, and I would hope you would one download
Speaker 1: uh the podcast A download subscribed rate us write a
Speaker 1: review doesn't have to be about me. You can hate me,
Speaker 1: I don't hate you. Uh, right, a review, and I
Speaker 1: think that that helps us in somewhere or someport. But
Speaker 1: more than anything passed on to a friend, Like there's
Speaker 1: some great tidbits about coaching, there's some great tidbits about life. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think the passion that Ryan lives with the
Speaker 1: realness with how he coaches kids and how he's handled
Speaker 1: success and failure is nothing short of remarkable. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad he got a chance to tell that story at
Speaker 1: this time. Anybody can. It's like after when anybody can
Speaker 1: tell story after win? Man, you can't shut me up
Speaker 1: after win. What do you do after lunch Uh, there's
Speaker 1: more great ones to come. I'm so glad you downloaded
Speaker 1: and hope you subscribe. You rate listen to Doug Gallet
Speaker 1: Show daily. Thanks so much for listening on Doug Galley.
Speaker 1: This is album m