1
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,960
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Godlie and uh this is

2
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:17,599
Speaker 1: the first ever on the road right literally on the

3
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:25,960
Speaker 1: interstate UH between Asheville, North Carolina and uh Harrisburg, Virginia.

4
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 1: And what you're going to hear over the next hour

5
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 1: or so is a podcast with Ryan Odum. Now, Uh, Ryan,

6
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 1: I know each other a little bit. My brother and

7
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: Ryan are are good friends. But it's if you're listening

8
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 1: to this and you're a fan and you're like, well,

9
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,279
Speaker 1: they really seems like they know each other. Like it's

10
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,840
Speaker 1: called uh in in uh Hebrew its mish book, which

11
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: is like family, my family by choice in basketball. It

12
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense if you're a hoop guy, right,

13
00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 1: his dad was a coach, high school coach, became a system,

14
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: became big time college head coach. And my dad was

15
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 1: high school coach, became a college since became a college

16
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: head coach and college assistant, then an AU coach. Whatever.

17
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: It's basketball family, and there's some interesting ties that behind there.

18
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: Um And ultimately, obviously what we led up to is

19
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 1: uh the greatest upset in the history of college basketball.

20
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,399
Speaker 1: And you're gonna be, I think, fascinated by it. But

21
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,199
Speaker 1: it's his own personal journey and remarkably, like I set

22
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 1: this up to my brother Greg, who does deserve producing credit,

23
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 1: and you know I wanted to. I don't want to

24
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,360
Speaker 1: do it right now as we get into champion Week,

25
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 1: into the n c A tournament, and it's just timely

26
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: and perfect and enjoyable. And Virginia is still the defending

27
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 1: national champion, is of that. But but when we set

28
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: it up, he was the one seed, and I was like,

29
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: all right, you know they're gonna win their tournament and

30
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 1: then we'll get him. And it's like so they just

31
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: maybe were upset by the eight seed, and then it

32
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,919
Speaker 1: became even more timely, more perfect, and I thought to myself,

33
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 1: you want to you know, it's just it's just too emotional,

34
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,639
Speaker 1: it's too hard. You know, these coaches they lose a game,

35
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: they bury themselves in a bunker for a month and

36
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: good luck in them out of it. And I texted

37
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: Ryan day after they lost two days like he, man,

38
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 1: if you know what he's like, now we're doing it.

39
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,399
Speaker 1: How about we doing Monday? And then Monday didn't work

40
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 1: and out Tuesday. So this is dropping on a Wednesday

41
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: of Championship week, and I know you will enjoy it.

42
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,079
Speaker 1: It's it's impossible not too because he's just a delightful

43
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 1: human being. UM I do have to promote the fact

44
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 1: that when there are lit me of other all ball

45
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 1: podcasts that are amazing, amazing from Tremaine Davis who was

46
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: awarded the State at three and just recently was uh

47
00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: the ceremonial captain a Super Bowl. There's a two part

48
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: with Ja Billis. You can dig through and find just

49
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 1: you know where you searched out this podcast. There's Scott

50
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:12,640
Speaker 1: Brooks podcast, there's uh NATO's podcasts. I mean, there's so

51
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 1: many good ones and uh it's it's interesting, Like I

52
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: kind of started doing this as a bit of a

53
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,640
Speaker 1: passion project, just like catching up with friends or people

54
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 1: that I'm fascinated by in the sport that I love.

55
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,840
Speaker 1: There's also a teachersmans Ottawa one about his life background

56
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 1: which is not really basketball, but his personal story is

57
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,359
Speaker 1: so good and so interesting, you know, selling drugs and

58
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: Oklahoma's city as a teenager, uh into making it to

59
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,520
Speaker 1: the NFL and becoming a pro bowler. Kind of cool,

60
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: like we got them all in here. Just download the cowalog.

61
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: Also can listen to Dug album show daily three to

62
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: six Eastern Cault their Pacific. But this thing is is

63
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 1: growing leaps and bounds, and guys like Ryan on the

64
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 1: reason why, they just they have time to tell their

65
00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: story to share with you Dan Munson's podcast and of

66
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,120
Speaker 1: course um Son of Don an other coach's son was

67
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,200
Speaker 1: the head coach at Gonzago and they made that initial

68
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: Elite eight run that was like a month ago. You

69
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 1: can download that. But that's a two partter and every

70
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: bit of it is good and every the honesty and

71
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 1: it is amazing, amazing. You know, sometimes you get a

72
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: guy like you know, there's more to the story, and

73
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: most of the guys that we've had, they've just talked

74
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: and told their story. It's an organic conversation. Um, I'm

75
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 1: trying to do that on the radio. Obviously there's some

76
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 1: more time constraints and there's some other uh, there's some

77
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,480
Speaker 1: other parts to it. I should also point out the

78
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: Andrew Boga two partner, there's some language issues sometimes not

79
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 1: that he doesn't speak English, in terms of our cursing

80
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's a little bit more rife, a

81
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 1: little bit more real than some of the others. So

82
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: download those are great list of doug Out the show

83
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,919
Speaker 1: three six Eastern Fox Sports Radio. I heart radio. App Um,

84
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: I've I've lived this basketball journey now for I think

85
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: eighty three was the first time I re umber right

86
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:06,279
Speaker 1: and we talked about that pot Um. I remember final four's.

87
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 1: I've gone to final fours. I didn't play in the

88
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 1: final four. I wish I did know people. I was

89
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: like you playing a big coach, like, no, that was

90
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,279
Speaker 1: that was not me. Now you play with that with

91
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,040
Speaker 1: with Tony Allen. Now that was John Lucas that we

92
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: lost the leading. So maybe I'll do a pod next

93
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: next week on the n c A Tournament. My memories

94
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,159
Speaker 1: of playing in it. I kept done something that but

95
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 1: the sixteen one, you know, it had never happened before,

96
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 1: and statistics will tell you that ultimately was gonna happen.

97
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 1: But logic to me, you said, might not have happened

98
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 1: because low major is like a bad word that's used

99
00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 1: traditionally in recruiting. And I've been coaching that low major

100
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,320
Speaker 1: because somehow it just feels different than mid maker. But

101
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 1: the low majors, the true one bid leagues, those are

102
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,120
Speaker 1: being rated by the mid and high majors. Your cruity, kid,

103
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,240
Speaker 1: you think he's a little bit better of mid major

104
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: minus or maybe even a mid major mid major plus.

105
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: And you get him, and he's so good that everybody

106
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,320
Speaker 1: takes notice. And so at au coach or an assistant

107
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 1: coach in college somehow finds a way to the family,

108
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,160
Speaker 1: to the connector and they transfer up right. I mean,

109
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,239
Speaker 1: Cleveland State's program was raided. San Jose State has been rated. Um.

110
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: You go across the country and there's lots of these kids,

111
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,679
Speaker 1: like I mean, look at Division three programs are losing

112
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:56,360
Speaker 1: players to the Division one programs. Um. So I always

113
00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 1: I thought recently that because guys are transferring up from

114
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 1: the lower levels, I'm sure what happened now, It's important

115
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 1: to point out that Virginia did have a major injury

116
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: to DeAndre Hunter and that changed and not just in

117
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 1: terms of their go to guy, but also he allowed

118
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 1: them to play smaller and more for out one end.

119
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: But that didn't if you go back and watch that game,

120
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 1: didn't feel that much like enough just it and it

121
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 1: was because it was an asking by UNBC got out

122
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 1: of hand in the end. Anyway, Ryan Oldtom his son

123
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 1: of the great coach and kind of legendary coach, right

124
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 1: in college basketball. His personal story has been told many

125
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 1: times over and um, he's come out the other side.

126
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 1: He had a great year. They won the league this

127
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: year at U NBC, but obviously fell short in the conference.

128
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: Certain if you're known for one thing and known for

129
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 1: pulling off arguably the right US upset the history college basketball,

130
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: they didn't have. Bet there's a lot more to him.

131
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 1: I think you enjoyed this conversation. Here's the head coach

132
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: of Maryland Baltimore County Rhino. Yeah, college basketball was crazy,

133
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 1: right obviously, and I want to get to what happened

134
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 1: most recently and then what you're probably most known for.

135
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 1: But I don't want to start like when you were born.

136
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 1: Were both sons of coaches, But I think it was

137
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: right in the window of your dad going from being

138
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,360
Speaker 1: a high school coach to a college assistance. That is

139
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,839
Speaker 1: that accurate exactly? Yeah, yeah, Night. I was born in

140
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 1: seventy four and my father was the head coach at

141
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: Durham High School, and uh, you know, back then, John

142
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 1: Lucas was playing in a rival high school. There was

143
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,240
Speaker 1: all kinds of good players around there. Got Marshall Ashford

144
00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 1: played for him, who ended up going on to Virginia

145
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: Tech to be a really good guard. But yeah, he uh,

146
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,680
Speaker 1: he started in in Goldsboro. That's where he was born

147
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 1: and raised. And so his father was a car dealer

148
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 1: and so the his dad was a car dealer. His

149
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: dad was a car dealery and the car dealership in

150
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 1: uh in Goldsborough maybe the Cadillac. I have no idea

151
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,199
Speaker 1: what it was, but um, you know, he would work

152
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 1: there every summer and so the you know, the thought was, hey,

153
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 1: he's gonna take it over one day. That's just gonna

154
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,559
Speaker 1: what's gonna be what happens. And so, um, he went

155
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,560
Speaker 1: to play basketball for a guy named Jerry Steele at

156
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,600
Speaker 1: high Point excuse me, Guildford. He'll kill me for saying

157
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: high Point. He at Guildford College, and uh, you know,

158
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: Jerry Steele is a great player in White Forest, one

159
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 1: of the best big guys in the sixties, back when

160
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 1: they went to the Final four and played Billy Packer

161
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: and that crew, and uh, they were very close in age.

162
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 1: So Jerry just graduated from Wake. It was just coming

163
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 1: into Guildford and so that was kind of his first

164
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: connection into the basketball world was through through Jerry Steel.

165
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 1: Jerry played for Bonds McKinny, and you know he mentor

166
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 1: dad Dad played football as well. He played uh basketball,

167
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 1: he played baseball all like Guildford you know, in college

168
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 1: and just love sports. So he ends up after graduating

169
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: from college going home to Goldsborough and coaches at his

170
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,440
Speaker 1: high school. And he graduated from Goldsboro High School. They're

171
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 1: a couple of years my brother Lane, who you know

172
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 1: is born there at the time in Goldsboro, and then

173
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 1: move on to to He moves on and gets offered

174
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 1: the Durham High job. That's where I'm born in seventy four,

175
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: and so he was very fortunate and that he got

176
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 1: to know at that point m Vic Bubis was the

177
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 1: head coach at Duke. Chuck Daly was an assistant, Hubie

178
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 1: Brown was an assistant. I mean it was the who's

179
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 1: who on that staff, you know at that point. And

180
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 1: so he would go over there, you know, almost daily

181
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: to watch the practices and do all that. And so

182
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 1: his connection and and initial entree in college basketball was

183
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 1: through they introduced him to GARF and so he would

184
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 1: take he was kind of the first Southern guy to

185
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,839
Speaker 1: go up to five Star basketball camp and you know,

186
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 1: he literally would drive the bus up and all the

187
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 1: local players in the in in North Carolina would go

188
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,959
Speaker 1: up there with him and uh, you know, spend a

189
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,079
Speaker 1: week or two and go to the camp. And say,

190
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,960
Speaker 1: he became obviously really close with you know, all the

191
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 1: coaching characters of of that time, Patino's and you know

192
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,880
Speaker 1: obviously Garf and for Tella, and he met all those

193
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,920
Speaker 1: guys and has remained close with them for years. Um.

194
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be coaching if it wasn't for him

195
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: coaching at Darren High and you know, them connecting into Garf.

196
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 1: Amazing my dad. Uh so my grandpa wasn't accounting, yeah,

197
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:06,559
Speaker 1: in New York, and he's a very successful account and Um,

198
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 1: he became a car dealer because he would take over

199
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,800
Speaker 1: parts of people's businesses because you need to look at

200
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 1: the books. It's bad shape because they don't know what

201
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,400
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing. And you know, with

202
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: his accounting background, he took over a car dealership on

203
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: Long Island. My dad was like thirteen and moved death

204
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 1: Long Island and he became the most successful car dealer

205
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 1: on Long Island because he was the first to start

206
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 1: leasing and he was leasing two soldiers who were coming

207
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 1: back from you know, any sort of battle whatever he had.

208
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,599
Speaker 1: He had connections uh within like the v A and

209
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: they would you know, get off the boat and have

210
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,440
Speaker 1: a brand new Catalec for him, and and uh anyway,

211
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,680
Speaker 1: it kind of similarly. Like so my dad his first

212
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 1: job was at Fairlawn High School in New Jersey, and

213
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 1: I believe the previous coach was HUGHB. Brown and yeah,

214
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: and then my dad he had this mere curial journey

215
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 1: where he was like he was the head coach at

216
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs High School, at Death Valley High School, at

217
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: i'll think of it in the second somewhere out in

218
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania. Uh, close to where Jerry Lucas grew up. Yeah, anyway,

219
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's it's interesting kind of the similarity.

220
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 1: So your dad goes to Wake as an assistant, you're

221
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 1: like two years old. Yeah, So, so your earliest memories

222
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: of basketball were more in a college gym or in

223
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 1: a high school gym? Like what are your earliest memories?

224
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 1: Definitely college? Yeah, yeah, definitely college. I mean I remember

225
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 1: Wake a little bit. Um they had because my brother

226
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 1: was you know, brother six seven years older than me

227
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 1: or whatever, and and so at halftime, they always had

228
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 1: this thank called the Dribbling Beacons, and so Lane was

229
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,960
Speaker 1: a part of the dribble and deacon. So I sort

230
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 1: of remember that. UM. And then you know, he left there,

231
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, and and became the head coach at East Carolina,

232
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: and so we moved down to Greenville and and I

233
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 1: definitely remember that being there. I remember summer camps, you know,

234
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: going to his camp, and he would always have great

235
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 1: college counselors. I remember James Worthy came, you know one

236
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 1: it was probably his after his junior sophomore year or

237
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 1: something was when he broke his leg and he was

238
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 1: out for basically the summer at the camp. No no, no, no,

239
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 1: I think it was he had some sort of surgery

240
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 1: over the summer, and so I just remember him being

241
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 1: at the camp with this huge cast on. I don't

242
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,320
Speaker 1: know how he worked camp with the cast on, but

243
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 1: he did. UM. And then you know, Dad left there

244
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: after three years and then you know, went up to

245
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 1: Virginia and and that was kind of an odd thing,

246
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, because he was a head coach at East

247
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 1: Carolina and then he went you know after three quick

248
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,720
Speaker 1: years too. And again they weren't terrible when you see

249
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: they were they were okay, um, and he went to

250
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: be an assistant for Terry Holland. Well they were number

251
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,200
Speaker 1: one of the country at that point. That was when

252
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: Ralph was still there, Ralph's senior year. You know, they

253
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 1: were picked to win the whole thing. Um, okay, so

254
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's let's start there. Okay, So your

255
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: how old this time this is? I'm probably I'm going

256
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,400
Speaker 1: into I'm going into the third, third or fourth grade

257
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: at that point, like like eight years old. Yeah, south

258
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 1: and for and like you and I know, and I

259
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 1: think a lot of people listening, but there's some people

260
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: who don't know, like Ralph Sampson was like three time

261
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 1: player that year, seven foot four, Yeah, like crazy skill,

262
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: crazy skill. Remember this isn't a time when the a

263
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: c C has worthy and Jordan's right and like everybody

264
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 1: has NC stated just one nationally one championship like the

265
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: league is and he's the best of all. Okay, So

266
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: eight year old Ryan Odom, what do you remember about

267
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: like the first you're looking up at Ralph Sampson. Yeah,

268
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 1: I mean just just shock. You know, I've never never

269
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: seen a guy that's all number one and to see

270
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 1: the things that he was able to do on the

271
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 1: basketball court. I mean, it's what you see all these

272
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 1: guys nowadays. And obviously they've taken it to another level

273
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: in terms of how they play with the ball, you know,

274
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: in terms of their skill level. But back then, when

275
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 1: you had big guys, it was all around the rim.

276
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 1: You know, it was hook shots, and he certainly had

277
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 1: all that. Those donks layups and and they would they

278
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 1: would get to the free throw. But you know, his

279
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 1: ability to shoot and dribble and do the things that

280
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: he could do on a court, it was amazing. But

281
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 1: I remember the times where he wasn't playing, you know,

282
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 1: and and I'm at the practice because we literally lived.

283
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 1: You've been to Charlottesville and where the you know, U

284
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 1: Haul was. There's a brand you've never I'm actually gonna

285
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: go there tomorrow. Oh my gosh, you got I have

286
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,680
Speaker 1: a day off. Yeah, it's just we'll back. I apologized

287
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: interrupt your stories. Okay. So the first high major to

288
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 1: offer me, yeah, it was Jeff Jones and Virginia j Okay,

289
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 1: So so when he was there that when he offered me,

290
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 1: Harold Dean was his point guard and and I loved

291
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 1: Harold Dean, because Harold Dean had like the most he

292
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 1: and Jim Jackson had the most ripped arms. Yeah right,

293
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: I was like, those guys are badasses. And so I remember,

294
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 1: like remember they used to they used to send out,

295
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, all the mailing stuff whatever, and so I,

296
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 1: you know, like Virginia coach Jones offered me a scholarship

297
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 1: and um, and I was still a junior in high

298
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 1: school and at the time it was mostly mid majors

299
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 1: and you know, some tepid interests from some other schools.

300
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: It was Virginia first, and then Lon Kerger Florida off me.

301
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 1: But Virginia semis so I had got all this stuff

302
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,400
Speaker 1: and it was the first it was the only school

303
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 1: that when they sent all this information, I just poured

304
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: over it and I was just fascinated by the campus

305
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 1: and the beauty of the campus and everything. And I

306
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 1: became like I became this likelar Um Bobby really was

307
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 1: my idol. Yeah, And I didn't know, but I still

308
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: to this day, I've never been to Cameron. I don't

309
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 1: know anything about I don't know anything about Duke really

310
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: is a university. But Virginia I know everything about the

311
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 1: buildings and the architecture, like I was super into it.

312
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. Yeah, yeah, but they remember, they remember the

313
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: old arena was a dump, like a complete remember, and

314
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: like why do they play there? Fox Sports Radio has

315
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all

316
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and

317
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R

318
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 1: to listen live. Um. Anyway, so it's it's fascinating event. Okay,

319
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: So you lived close to the live close. Yes, there's

320
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 1: a bridge leads you know, from one little neighborhood over

321
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: into where the old arena you hall was, and now

322
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: they've since torn it down. They've torn down new hall

323
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 1: they floated it a year ago, but the new arenas

324
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 1: right beside that, and so literally I would get home.

325
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: We left two doors down from the Hollands, and so

326
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 1: I grew up with you know, you know, Coach Holland

327
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 1: and Mrs Holland and their daughters and Michael and Kate

328
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: Uh Jim Laranago was an assistant at the time. So Jay,

329
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I grew up together. Like that was

330
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: kind of the staff at the time, and the kids,

331
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: h Jay and John John's Jay's younger brother. Um and

332
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: so we had a blast together traveling around, you know,

333
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 1: watching the final fours and n c A tournaments and

334
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: just all these different, you know, experiences that we all

335
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 1: had together growing up. Was really cool. And Coach Holland

336
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 1: made it like a true family. But when I would

337
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 1: get home from school every day, I would get on

338
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: my bike and I would ride across the bridge. Sometimes

339
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 1: I would walk, um and uh, I would go to

340
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 1: the practices and you know, literally you think about the

341
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: practices and the guys that were in the gym at

342
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 1: the time, and then you had Ralph Sampson, You had

343
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: Rick Carlile, you had Othel Wilson, you know, who was

344
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: an amazing guard and one of the best in in

345
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 1: the a SEC at that time. You had Ricky Stokes.

346
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 1: You know, it was incredible to watch. Um, you know,

347
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: you can keep keep going with all the players there.

348
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: When did you first started absorbed the actual basketball? It

349
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: was probably then, yeah, I mean it was it was,

350
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, as after we'd been there, you know, three

351
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: or four years. You know, all of a sudden, I'm

352
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: twelve years old and and like I'm working out hard

353
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: over there, and um, you know around the team. You

354
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: know about when Brian Stiff and John Protty and those

355
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: guys came in. Um, yeah, I mean that was about

356
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: the time. Huh these are these are good players. Yeah,

357
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: I used to try to copy, like I forgot like

358
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: John Chardy was. I forgot like man, he was a stud.

359
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah he's good. He was just a tough dud too.

360
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: Mean he well that's the that's the thing. And you

361
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: know I have I've been eleven year old son and

362
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, like and he's he's like he's the world's

363
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,120
Speaker 1: nicest kid. Yeah, he's just nice. And I'll never forget

364
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: like he was. I've always I've tried to play him

365
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: up a lot with eleven to playing like when you

366
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: get to play thirteens, Like there's just there's just a difference.

367
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: There's a you know, the kids that have post puberty.

368
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: It's just really hard to fit in there. Um. And

369
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: and he's he'll he's like me, he'll be sure late.

370
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: Um I'm still waiting. So when his his first time

371
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: playing like AU basketball, I starting coaching this like fourth

372
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: grade B team, um, and I had him playing on it.

373
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: And he's like in third grade and he's young third grader.

374
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: So instead of just like letting him play like he

375
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: just he couldn't dribble his left hand his left handed,

376
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: so oil him ribble right. And then we find the

377
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: other chem's point guard. I would make we find out

378
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: his right left handed, make him go the other way

379
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: the whole game. That's it simplified. And I just want

380
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 1: you to guard him the entire game, you know, and

381
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: just every time he gets the ball, make him go

382
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: to his left handies right hand. And so we're playing

383
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: a team and his fourth graders, and he's really frustrating,

384
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: this kid, and he's doing a great job and nobody's

385
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: looking and at the free tow line, the kid just

386
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: turns and elbows him right in the head. He goes

387
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: down to the ground. He's crying at basketball. Don't have

388
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: to play day. And I said, your men, I say

389
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: to it now, I said, I said, Hayes, listen, bro,

390
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: if you want play this thing, you gotta be you

391
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: gotta be tougher than a two dollar steak. That's right,

392
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: you gotta and and and the if if we go through,

393
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: we track the guys that have made it as backup

394
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: point guards in the NBA, the guys that we all

395
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: respect as the great college point guards, like all of

396
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: them they have one thing in coom. Some of them

397
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: are stores, some of them are facilitators. Some of them

398
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: are black, some of them are white. Yeah, they were mixed.

399
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: They are all the toughest dudes on the batto or

400
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: you will ever find. It's just that the nature of

401
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: you have to be smart, yes, a little bit, but

402
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 1: you have tough is way more important than anything. Yeah, yeah,

403
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: you're not gonna make it if you're not tough. Like

404
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: that kid t J McConnell right now, still playing him

405
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: and he's perfect, Like look J McConnell like, and I

406
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: apologize to him every time I see him because I

407
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: was like dj I because I told him when he

408
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: finished school. I was like, you know, like europe should

409
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: be hard because you gotta you can play. But he

410
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: plays like a lot of Europeans in terms of his toughness,

411
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: but they can all really shoot. They like your own guys.

412
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, you should coaching whatever. He's like,

413
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it, and he's obviously made it. And

414
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: he's made it because he knows he does what he

415
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: can do. Just mid rain shots and layups, get gonna

416
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: be open and then he just ball goes in the

417
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: basket and he's here. We go. Yeah, he just duards

418
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: and he's just do And they're gonna and they're gonna,

419
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna come at you and try and

420
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: expose you for your weaknesses every time on defense, and

421
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: you either decide you want to play or you're done,

422
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: you know, And then you always say, there's nowhere to

423
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: hide once you get inside those lines. There's nowhere to hide,

424
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 1: whether you're gonna get done or you're not. And as

425
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: a team or as an individual, you know, if you're

426
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: trying to make it as an individual, there's nowhere to hide.

427
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: It's it's as fair as again, you know. Okay, so

428
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: you're so so so. I mean Terry Holland had these

429
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: amazing staffs. Yeah, amazing staffs. I mean really like crazy.

430
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: You go back kind of uh, you go back through

431
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: and look at all these systems they have all gone on.

432
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: They were all successful in coaching and and well respected.

433
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: Um oh, why did they not win it all? I

434
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: mean I think you have to you have to be lucky,

435
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: you know at times to win it all. And I

436
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: think that's the short answer of it. Um. You know,

437
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: they they had you know, that that particular year, they

438
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: ran into a team that caught lightning in a bottle.

439
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: Like if NC State didn't exist, Sydney low And and

440
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: Derek Whittenberg and all that that that crew, Um, you know,

441
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: they would have won it most likely, you know, that

442
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: year and they ran into a team that you know

443
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: would not there was no give it and it was

444
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: there was just something magical about it. And um, I

445
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: think sometimes that's just the way it is. Like you know,

446
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 1: you think about Virginia's run last last year a few

447
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: years ago. Now, I mean they had to escape multiple round,

448
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: multiple things had to happen, you know, in each game,

449
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: and then to continue to advance. And so I think

450
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: not that you say, oh they're lucky, you know, but

451
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: you have to have luck, you know, without a doubt. Um.

452
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: And the matchups, you know, it's all the matchups. You know,

453
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: each round, you know how that plays out, you know,

454
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I don't I don't really know

455
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: the ins and out so exactly why they didn't went

456
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: didn't beat NC State, but you know they they had

457
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: their chances. I know that, Um, so so your then

458
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: your dad would wear so he left there in eighty

459
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: nine and became the head coach Awake. Yeah. So he

460
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: was an assistant all the way to eighty nine and

461
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: then took over Wake Forest that that year. What was

462
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: what was that like for you to leave? You're you're

463
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: like painting a picture of utopia and Virginia, right, great teams,

464
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: Charlottesville is supposely amazing, you know, um and great players

465
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: and now you're at Wake Forest. And remember this again

466
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: in the league in nine where Carolina Duke, you know,

467
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: it's still Virginia and whatever. What was what your early

468
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: memories of when you're dead took over a week? Yeah,

469
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: I remember going to the press conference right at Greylan

470
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: Conference Center. I mean it was you know, it was

471
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: it was really exciting because Dad had kind of, you know,

472
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: achieved something that was a dream of this, you know,

473
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: to be a head coach in the a c C.

474
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: And it was at a place that he knew really

475
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: well where he got to start. Um, he knew he

476
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: knew all the people there already, you know, and and

477
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: they were excited to you know, to have him back,

478
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: um and and it was an opportunity for him to

479
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: build something. And you know, I think one of the

480
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: big things that helped them get going. Um was being

481
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: able to to sign Rodney Rogers. Um, you know that

482
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: was that was the first sign that, man, they can

483
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: do something. You know, if this guy is willing to

484
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: take a chance on Wake, then you know, we we

485
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: we could have something special here. So your dad gets

486
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: it that, your dad gets the Wake job. Yeah, um

487
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: that What was that like for you in terms of

488
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: your basketball? Now your middle school, in the high school,

489
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: getting ready for high school. Yeah, so I'm heading into

490
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: tenth grade at that point, um, And so you know,

491
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: anytime you you know, you know, as a coach's son,

492
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: you move around a lot, and so you have to

493
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: be you you you know, we tried to always look

494
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: at it as an opportunity as opposed to like, you know,

495
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: this this sucks. Man, we're moving again. I just made

496
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: all my friends here and now I gotta leave all

497
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: of them. The way we try to view it was,

498
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: you know, I have more friends down because of this,

499
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: and let's go and make some more. And so that

500
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: was our you know, an initial thought going in there,

501
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and it was a place that we such a such

502
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: apparent thing to say that's going We'll just make more friends, Like, yeah,

503
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how that works. You was that like,

504
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: you're literally never going to see these people ever again

505
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: in your life. Yeah, you're not the one happened to

506
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: walk into high school, you know, for the first day

507
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: where you don't know. Plus you're you're like now the

508
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: head coach his son, which is a completely different dynamic. Yeah,

509
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: everybody has corn. Yeah, yeah, they're looking sideways at you

510
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: right away. So okay, so what what high school? I

511
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: went to R. J. Reynolds, which is turned out to

512
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: be a great blessing for me. It was a great school,

513
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: awesome school. I played for a coaching in Howard West.

514
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: It's one of the all time winning coaches in in

515
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: North Carolina history. Um, just a great coach. And I

516
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: met some of lifelong friends there, man, lifelong friends. I got.

517
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta quick my my own, I gotta.

518
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I got a couple of weeks. Four stories. One of

519
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: them is do you know that Fran McCaffrey went there

520
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: as Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, so when your dad recruited him?

521
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: Was your dad still there when Fran was there? He

522
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: was there for a year, I think, and Fran left

523
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: he didn't play that much, And well, I don't know

524
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: Frank I think France that he started as a freshman.

525
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: He might have. And he said his Kyl Tasey story

526
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: was this one. Yeah's a good one. He said, yeah,

527
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: he has two of them, okay, and I probably I've

528
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: had him on the pod and I don't know. He

529
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: didn't tell it, so I'll tell it for him. Yeah.

530
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: He said one was their planet, dude. And then he

531
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: had a rule and you could ask your dad this

532
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: rule that was on the side. It was in the side,

533
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: side of the bounds. They were in zone yeah, underneath

534
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: there in man. Okay, okay, so they're planet Cameron. The

535
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: ball goes out of bounds and it's down close to

536
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: the corner, but it's on the side yeah, um, or

537
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: excuse me, underneath that a bounder in stone side there

538
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: and man right, So uh, ball is out of bounds

539
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: and um, it's on the sideline, close to the baseline,

540
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: but still on the sideline. So Frank gets his man.

541
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: They throw the ball bounds to the elbow where he's

542
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be if they were in a twoth risona,

543
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: only they're not supposed to be a two the risona

544
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: and Kyle Tacy hops up and yeah, you know, and

545
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: he so Frank comes over and he's like, why did

546
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: you take me out? And he said, and he goes,

547
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: you don't know, and so he goes in instead of

548
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: going and sitting down on the bench, and he goes, coach,

549
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: we gotta rule side out of bounds, were in man underneath,

550
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: we're in zone, and Tasty like wheels back and he's

551
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: watching the game and like it should have been over

552
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: at that point, but of course, if you know Fran,

553
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: it's not over. So France, France says something like, so

554
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: what you should have done was take those other four

555
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: assholes out and left me in. So that his other stories,

556
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: other stories, this is my favorite one, and I said,

557
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. We're sitting in the Joyce Center and

558
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: we're watching the girls practice. Little did I know that

559
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: Margaret was a women's coach at the time. Frand was

560
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: single and they had just started dating or whatever. So

561
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: watching the women's talk to Muff mcraw is a great

562
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: coach watching practice, And I said, Brandy, when don't you

563
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: know you want to coach? And he said, let tell

564
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: you the moment playing in College Park against Maryland, I

565
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: think I left he Guerzelle. We got Kyle taste and

566
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: they're both good coaches, and uh, three seconds left go

567
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: in the game, and we're down a point, and we

568
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: call it time out, and assistants are arguing over what

569
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: to run, and by the time they decide that, by

570
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: the time Kyle Tasty comes over to drop a play,

571
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: the buzzer sounds and the refs are putting his back

572
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: out of the court and he turns to me and

573
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: he's like, Frank, get him something. He's like, you know,

574
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: we're running two whatever. Two is right. So they get

575
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: the line up and Lefty Grizelle looks and he calls

576
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: the time out because he wants to adjust to whatever takes.

577
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: He's like, So I said to myself, wait a second.

578
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: One guy can't get decide what he wants to run.

579
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: The other guy wants to call it time out to

580
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: give the other guy a chance to figure out what

581
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: he wants. I gotta do this. This, this is the

582
00:33:51,080 --> 00:34:00,719
Speaker 1: greatest job ever. Well, so you're to high school, you're

583
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: having a great experience. How good How good were you

584
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: high school? High school? I was solid, Yeah, I mean

585
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: I played as a sophomore on the on the varsity

586
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: and then you know, started my last two years um,

587
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: and you know my options were walk on it wake

588
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: you know, walk on at Furman, but Chests was the

589
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: coach there. Uh yeah, grade school, um, you know, or

590
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: or go to Hampton Sydney and and you know I

591
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: wanted to play, you know, it was still in me.

592
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't I wasn't ready to kind of

593
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: give up on the actual action. And uh, you know

594
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: I decided to go to go to Hampton Sydney and

595
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: play for Tony Shaverer. Tony, you know it was an

596
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: awesome coach m still is to this day and a

597
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: tremendous mentor for me. Uh. He was a walk on

598
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: for Dean Smith at U n C. And I used

599
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: to playing it still for it every day in practice,

600
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: and so he taught us all so much, I mean

601
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: over the years. And I've still got some of my

602
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: best friends and memories you know from college and and

603
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: games that we had and you know how it is,

604
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: you remember you don't necessarily remember all the games, but

605
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: you remember all the times together outside of the games,

606
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: and uh, you know we still are on you know,

607
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: we still connect with one another, our team, you know,

608
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: on text and all that from that time. So so

609
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: when you so so now you're starting to form kind

610
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: of your own basketball identity, right because um, like obviously

611
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: your dad has one style, yeah, high school coaches style.

612
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: Tony has a style. You know, when you're a smart thinker,

613
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: you have an opinion of your own. How did how

614
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 1: did you guys play? Because you I think you shot

615
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: a lot of three, didn't you guys? You guys play, Yeah,

616
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: I had a semi we were We played the Caroline system.

617
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was totally the Carolina system.

618
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 1: I mean we pressed, you know, I mean we would

619
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: score basket and we were in any for what they

620
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: called twenty four, which is face guard your guy, and

621
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: we'd have a guy either on or off the ball. Um,

622
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: and we were making your life miserable. You know, the

623
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: entire entire game, turning you, trapping you, um, the way

624
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: they used to play back years ago. And uh, occasionally

625
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: we would switch to his own, but that was rare. Um.

626
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: You know, that was the momentum changer. Offensively, we were motion.

627
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: He had some sets in all those same sets that

628
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: that they would run, uh you know, in transition, you know,

629
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: reversed backscreen, you know, the lobs, all that kind of stuff.

630
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: We did we played Carolina basketball at Sydney at that level,

631
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,959
Speaker 1: and you know, very little scouting of the other team,

632
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: Like I don't even really remember a ton of scouting

633
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: for the other data. They did it, but it was

634
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: all about us. It was never about like the other team.

635
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: They would have to beat us. And you know, he

636
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: he was just a really really good coach, and uh,

637
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: that was it was a fun time in my life.

638
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: So so you get them playing, yeah, and then now

639
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: you're just wasn't the only best. But I mean like,

640
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: look that's a great school. Yeah, I mean my thought initially,

641
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: I did an internship my junior year, um in between

642
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: my junior and senior year at Bank of America and Charlotte,

643
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: and I worked for my godfather all summer on the

644
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: trading floor, and so I thought about going into the

645
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: financial That was my my initial goal when I was

646
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: an econ mayor. I thought about going into financial world.

647
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, while I enjoyed it that summer,

648
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to give up hoofs and uh, you know,

649
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: as I got later into my senior year, you know,

650
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: it was a parent that I wanted to coach, and

651
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: my father was kind of at the height of his career.

652
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: You know, they had won back to back ACC championships

653
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: with Duncan Children's and those guys. Um. And then you know,

654
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: my brother was coaching, you know at Alabama. You know

655
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: they had Spreewell and Cory and all those James Hollywood robins.

656
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: Were they. I mean they actually a little un of fact,

657
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: my brother and my father played against fore another and

658
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: n s a turn. You know, Alabama played Wake Forest,

659
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. Um, but you know it was

660
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: it was a parent that I wanted to do that.

661
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: And and your old buddy Seth Greenberg gave me a

662
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: chance down at down at South Florida and helped me

663
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: get into business and and then gave me my second

664
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: job or my third job at Virginia Tech third or fourth. Yeah,

665
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: so the he tried to recruit you didn't he did,

666
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: so he recruited me a Long Beach initially coming out

667
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: like you know, my dad we moved out to California

668
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 1: because my dad was an assistant under Tex Twitter at

669
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: at Long Beach and I mean he had it going

670
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: at Long Beach State, Yeah, he had it was it

671
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: was a big time program in a small time league.

672
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: And um, but I just I mean part of it

673
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: was I really, you know, I probably want I wanted

674
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: to go to u C. L A. And they offered me,

675
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: but it was just there was there was some baggage

676
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: there in terms of them not offered me early and

677
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: from a younger, from a kid the year behind me,

678
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: and I just I didn't feel it, and I maybe

679
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: wanted to get to get away as well, Like you know,

680
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: I moved back since to California, But there's there's a

681
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: reason that I wanted to get away. I love I

682
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: don't I love basketball, but I like I want to

683
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: play somewhere where they love basketball, where they care about it.

684
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: It's warmer college atmosphere. And it took a second stop

685
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: to get there. But when I transferred, uh he and

686
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: and dave Z they put on the full core press

687
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: to South Florida. Yeah, we were, we were, we were

688
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: gonna have we were gonna have a minion. We're gonna

689
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: have all the just all the Jews gather in Tampa

690
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: and and be it's at South Florida. And so year

691
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 1: what year was that, because I think I was nine

692
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: six and set up. So I went there ninety seven

693
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: his first year I was there. Yeah, right, so he

694
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: uh yeah, so he he he did like to home visits.

695
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: It was a weird he would like did a home

696
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: visit and then he was like, he's like, I forgot

697
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: some stuff and I was just I couldn't. I just

698
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't

699
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: do it. Like there was an ego part to it

700
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: that I wasn't I wasn't willing to give up that

701
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: the high major thing or whatever. And uh and it

702
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: wasn't anything personal, said I love Seth Um so okay,

703
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: but Seth coaches very differently then, especially differently in your

704
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: dad Terry Holland and Tony Shaber. What did you take

705
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: from that experience when you're just getting into the business. Yeah,

706
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: I mean, for he wasn't afraid of anybody. You know,

707
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: I think he's not that he should to outwork because

708
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: everybody works hard in college basketball, Like there's a there's

709
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: a lot of hard workers out there. He works really smart, um,

710
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: and you know it's almost like he like you have

711
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: your back against the wall. He's got this underdog team

712
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: and he knew what it was gonna take with his

713
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: team to get them to fight and be tough to

714
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: a certain level. UM to be competitive and not only

715
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: be competitive, but to win, and like what he did

716
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: in Virginia attack you know, and you know his time there,

717
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: you know it was he got that program going again. Uh,

718
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: it had fallen on hard times, you know, had some

719
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: transition in terms of moving leagues and all of that,

720
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: and he just infused this immediate energy and no fear,

721
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: and you know, he got to the how, I how

722
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: do you do it? How do you infuse toughness and

723
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: energy and belief when it doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean

724
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: I think initially it's it's you know, the recruiting side

725
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: of things. You know, you have to you have to.

726
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: We were fortunate that, you know, when when he first

727
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: got there, he signed he ended up signing zadendal Del

728
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: who he was recruiting at South Florida UM. Xavian turned

729
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: out to be an all a sec a performer. He

730
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: was just a hard worker and had no fear and

731
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: had the chip on his shoulder and and and wanted

732
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: to prove people wrong. So I think that's one of

733
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: the first ways that you do it, because you have

734
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: to have others within your program that feel like they've

735
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: been you know, slided a little bit and they have

736
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: something to prove. And we had a group of guys

737
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: that felt that way. Um, Jamal Gordon was his backcourt mate.

738
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, Jamal Gordon was recruited by the Georgia Techs

739
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: and some of these other schools, you know, overlooked probably

740
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: by his local schools in Florida State and Florida and Miami. Um,

741
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: and he came up to Virginia Tech. And it was

742
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: open for them to play because you know, we didn't

743
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: have anybody else really at that point. And and you know,

744
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: they just they just took it. Those two guys took

745
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: it and ran with it. And we had a young

746
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: player in Coleman Collins who just kind of grew into

747
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: an amazing role and and uh, you know, became a dominant,

748
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: you know player for us, and we just kept recruiting,

749
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think one of the things that

750
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, he really tried to do was playoff of

751
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: the success that football had already established. Like there's a

752
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: built in fan base at a football school like that,

753
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, in Virginia Tech. And so all of the

754
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: cheers and the things that they were excited about. Um,

755
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, we tried to move into Castle Coliseum, and

756
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: the students already were excited about the university as a whole.

757
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: Like you walk around that school, you don't see any

758
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: other shirts. You know, there's certain certain schools where it's like,

759
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: you know Wake for instance, you know that they're just

760
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: mixed allegiances in that community. And it's not Wake small.

761
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: It's just you know, you have u n C. You

762
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: know Duke and Carola and uh NC State they're also

763
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: close together. Um naturally there's some mixed allegiances. Well in

764
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: a place like a college town like you're talking about,

765
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: there aren't any like everybody's for that for that school,

766
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: and you don't even wear that, you don't wear another

767
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: color like that. Yeah, you know that's the thing that

768
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: I think people don't if you're if you haven't been

769
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: a part of it, you don't understand. Like if you

770
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: live in Stillwater or you're an no papers, you don't

771
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: own anything that's red, You don't own anything that rent

772
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: any shade of rend. You just don't own everything you have,

773
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: Like you fall back on orange, right, Like that's just

774
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: the way it works. And whether maroon or orange or whatever.

775
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: When you're Virginia Tech like that's all you own. You're like,

776
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: you're just all in. Yeah, And so he was able

777
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: to play on that. And you know, he's he's obviously

778
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: a great motivator, right, um, you know, communicator and uh,

779
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, he made it a point to get to

780
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: know the students, you know, to to to really get

781
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: out in the community and and uh, you know, be

782
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 1: a be a voice you know from the basketball program.

783
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: They we're here too, We're trying to do something special,

784
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, just just get on board with us. And uh,

785
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: and the players obviously did the bulk of the work.

786
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: You know, they began to have success and and and

787
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: play a tough brand of basketball that that community really

788
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: fell in love with. Like his teams were tough and

789
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: that was all built in practices and and just a

790
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: work ethic you know that that he established and you know,

791
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: um yeah. So so then you went where left there

792
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: and went to UNC Charlotte UM and worked for Alan

793
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: Major at UNC Charlotte. So he was just leaving Ohio State.

794
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: They've been in the Final four and at that point

795
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: Charlotte was in the Atlantic ten UM and they were

796
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: adding Buckler and v c U and and all the

797
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 1: other teams that you know, I don't bother since left,

798
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: but are currently in the in the league. And it

799
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: was a big time league. Um, And it was a

800
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: big time opportunity for me. Um. It was a chance

801
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: for me to go work for a guy who's gonna

802
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: be a first time head coach, and so I wanted

803
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: to do that again, um, you know. And and it

804
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: was home you know as well. I hadn't worked in

805
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: North Carolina in a long time. My brother worked there

806
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: for Loots, and so I knew the history of the program. Um.

807
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: You know, I felt like it was a Xavier kind

808
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: of situation. You know, it was, Yeah, it was. I

809
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: mean they were competitive with Cincinnati and Louis Villan and

810
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 1: all those teams, and and uh, you know, while we

811
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: didn't achieve everything that we wanted to achieve when we

812
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: were there, we recruit some great guys and and you know,

813
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: had a good experience. Without a doubt, I would trade

814
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: that experience for anything he had. He you took over

815
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: his interim I did. Yeah my last year. What what

816
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: what first take me through the experience of when a

817
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: coach and I think he had some health issues too, right,

818
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: And then you know, and then, um, how did how

819
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: how does it go down? How did it go down

820
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: for you? And that you know, the A D comes

821
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: in and says like, hey, you're the guy. Yeah, I

822
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: mean I think it was how did how did it

823
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: all work? Yeah? I mean it was it was the

824
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: A D ended up, you know, communicating that to to

825
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: all of us. But at the same time, Alan was

826
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: intimately involved in, um, you know, in terms of you know,

827
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: spearheading spearheading that and what was what was best, what

828
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: he thought was best for the program. But there are

829
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: other experienced assistant coaches on that staff. I mean Desmond, Oliver,

830
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: Orlando and Ross both you know or friends to this day.

831
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I think our approach was we're just

832
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: gonna do this together. Well I have to actually be

833
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: the interim head coach. We're gonna do this thing together

834
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: because that's the only way it's gonna work. And I

835
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: didn't want that, that separation, UM, and so we kind

836
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: of kept doing our jobs, you know, um, you know,

837
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: we had the respect of the players and and and

838
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, obviously all three of us had kind of

839
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: been intimately involved. We recruited together there a little bit

840
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: differently than some other places that I've worked where it's like, hey,

841
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: you go recruit this guy and he's your guy and whatever.

842
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: You know, we recruited together so that that part of

843
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: it was not an issue. Our whole goal was to

844
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: do the best for those players that we could do, UM,

845
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: while understanding that you know, their leader was going to

846
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: be gone for a bit and uh, we didn't know

847
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: how long it would be ended up being that entire season,

848
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: or not an entire season, but from January on, um,

849
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: for the remainder of the year. And uh, and that

850
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: was a hard ending for us. You know, I think

851
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: we were I don't remember exactly what our record was,

852
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: but we lost in the first round of the tournament

853
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: in a really close game. UM. I think it might

854
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: have been to middle at the time. I can't remember

855
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: who it was. But um, anyway, UM, we were like

856
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: eight and eleven. You know, we weren't We weren't great, obviously,

857
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: but we weren't weren't terrible either. Um. We had some

858
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: really good players, you know at that point. A lot

859
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: of them went on to time majors after you know,

860
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: outing them out and us would let go. Um and

861
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, we we Uh, it was a tough ending

862
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: for us, for sure. And that was a dark time

863
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: for me personally. Man, getting fired. We coach long enough,

864
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fired. You know. It's just the way

865
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 1: it is. So that's that's why I asked, Okay, So

866
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the one of the

867
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: hard things, uh, for fans and the media is the

868
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: understanding of like when people get fired, like we just

869
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: very callously go like, well, he should get fired and

870
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: he he makes a bunch of money. Like holdo, man,

871
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: you've got all these assistant coaches and while they're they're

872
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: making decent livings, like they gotta go home and they

873
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: have wives and kids and they're gonna move and they

874
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: got to try and go find a job. Like it

875
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: is a okay, so, uh, what do you remember about

876
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: losing You lose your job in Charlotte? Then what what? What?

877
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: What's that? Yeah? I mean I was devastated, you know,

878
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: I was devastated. I felt like I let Allan down. Um,

879
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: you know, the players, Um, you know, obviously circumstances or circumstances.

880
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: You know, we could have won some of the games

881
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: we lost, but we didn't. Um, you know, and and

882
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: you know it is what it is. The results were

883
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: the results and no hard feelings. Obviously, they made the

884
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: decision that they felt was right for the you know,

885
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: the program at the time, and still have a good

886
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: relationship with with with the folks there Charlotte. Um. But

887
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, for me personally, the biggest issue that I

888
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: had going on, you know and my family was my

889
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: son was sick. You know, it's been pretty well documented

890
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: Connor as o c D. And so my wife was

891
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: not hiding, but she was really during that time where

892
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: I was the inner one cup. She was trying to

893
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: keep it off of me. But he was getting worse,

894
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, as every day went and you know, it

895
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: got to a point where the season ended and he

896
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: was really really bad and uh you know you know that.

897
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: I remember one weekend I had to take my youngest

898
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: and and go down to Charleston just to get him

899
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: out of the house. Um oh, and you know, just

900
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: to get him away from you know, seeing Connor in

901
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: a bad state. And Lucy just obviously it was an

902
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: amazing uh force for Connor and h led us through that.

903
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: And that's a hard deal. You know. They had two

904
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: different stints you know, in in Nashville, Tennessee, doing therapy,

905
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, at a at a hospital. Um, and so

906
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: she had to get up and move all the way

907
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: out there with him, rent an apartment, which obviously costs money.

908
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: You know. You think about that like all of a sudden,

909
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: we're fired, no job, She's gotta move to Nashville, you know,

910
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: and we've got bills to pay, you know. It's it's

911
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: it's not it's not going Anything's aren't going anywhere. And uh,

912
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: during that time, I think he left in August, and

913
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: he and Lucia left in August, and I had accepted

914
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: a job at the nore Rhine University. I was very

915
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: fortunate to get that job, and and a division two

916
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: head job, um, you know, at at a place that um,

917
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, to this day, I wouldn't be where I'm at,

918
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, had I've not been presented with that opportunity,

919
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, and forever thankful for that for sure, saving

920
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: our lives. Okay, So now you have your own program, yeah,

921
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: and you've been at all sorts of different levels. You

922
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: have your family, and you're trying to figure that out.

923
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: How did you put together your first team and run? Yeah,

924
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: I mean I think one of the things that I

925
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: was lucky again, Um, you know, I followed a coach

926
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: and John Lentz, you know, had been there for twenty

927
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: eight years, and great coach. He's Rick Barnes, his teammate,

928
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: you know, and they both played at the Noor Rude

929
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: and uh, he was a coach that you know, I

930
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: don't know how to describe him, but like his players,

931
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: knew exactly what he wanted. He was a tough coach,

932
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: all right. And so this this the team that I inherited,

933
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: was very disciplined. And for a young coach to come

934
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: in in that capacity to inherit guys, I mean they

935
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: were they were already trained. He had well trained them.

936
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: And so I walked into a great situation. Maybe we

937
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: didn't have exactly you know, the talent you know that

938
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: some of the other programs in that conference had. We

939
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: were able to repeat and add a couple of guys that,

940
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, when when combined with the returners, ended up

941
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: being you know, a storybook season for us UM. And

942
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: you know, I found just some amazing players there. Still

943
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: have amazing relationships with those guys to this day. Forever

944
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: grateful for them, um, you know, for all their hard work.

945
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: But that was a fun year. Man, Sweet sixteen had

946
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: some great, great memories. So so you inherited a tough team,

947
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: maybe not as talented as others that league. And then

948
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: I lost. Yeah, we recruited. Then we added to that.

949
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: We recruited a kid named Keenan Palmore who was transferring

950
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: from Old Dominion and Jeff Jones and he had one

951
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: year remaining and he played for Old Dominion. He was

952
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: he was kind of a you know, I don't know

953
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: what you would call it back up maybe or whatever.

954
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: He wasn't a full time starter. He did start some games,

955
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 1: but um, you know, heading into a senior year as

956
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: a parent, he was going to be a backup. But

957
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: he didn't want to do that. And he found us

958
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: in Lenora Run and you know, that connection was was

959
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: very strong. He ended up being an All American. He

960
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: had four or five triple doubles you know that year.

961
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: And he was just an amaz easy player and he

962
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: came into a group of guys with no ego. It

963
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: was all about he was. He was an amazing passer.

964
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: You love this about him, Like he literally made like

965
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: to three pointers the entire year, and our team shattered

966
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: the three point record you know for the conference, you know,

967
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: all time shattered the record for uh Leonora Ryon and

968
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: we were number one in in Division two and three

969
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: pointers made per game at like right at thirteen, just

970
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: under thirteen. But it was all because of him, Like

971
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: he was getting guys shots over and over and over again.

972
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: He was just getting the land and and get it

973
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: to him. But he also knew that he wasn't at

974
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: three point shooter, and so he ended up taking two

975
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: shots at the end of shot clocks, you know, and

976
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: I was in one of them went in, and I

977
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: was hoping he was gonna get a whole season and

978
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: not make pointing. I was actually quoting for that because

979
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: what a story, right, everybody shoots the three now, and

980
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: it's like care like he just wanted to get in

981
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: the lane and you know, and and played to his strengths.

982
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 1: But that was one of the reasons that we won.

983
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: And and so then so what was your decision like

984
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: to leave there? You know, it was it was a

985
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: hard decision, and that was an emotional decision because I

986
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: found some some guys there that changed my life and

987
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: I love dearly. But at the same time, you know,

988
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 1: I understood that, you know, coaching, being a head coach

989
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: in division one is a hard thing. It's hard to

990
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: get those jobs and there are only three forty four

991
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: or whatever that number is of them, and it's very competitive.

992
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: And when you have an opportunity to do it, you know,

993
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big believer. Yeah, they're they're good jobs.

994
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: They're they're certain jobs are better than others. But there's

995
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: no bad division one. You go and make it. You

996
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: can make it what you want to make it. And uh,

997
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like UNBC was it was a

998
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: great time to go here. You know, they had some

999
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: some hard times, but they were building a brand new arena.

1000
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: We're in a geographic footprint that you know, basketball is important,

1001
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: like you were talking about, UM, and you know, I

1002
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, we could build something special year.

1003
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: So what was your first team? Like first team again,

1004
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: I inherited a group, um just great guys. You know.

1005
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: I had guys on on the team that were four

1006
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: point those students. I had guys that had transferred, one

1007
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: transferred from DCU who ended up being you know, probably

1008
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: my best my best player, um, you know who would

1009
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: just happened there. As I began to have my meetings

1010
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: with the players while they hadn't one together at UNDC.

1011
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: One thing, one common theme was they had all one

1012
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: other places. You know. One one had played at Brewster

1013
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: Academy with Donovan Mitchell, you know, and they didn't lose

1014
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: a game. Uh you know. Another one played into Matha,

1015
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, in in one Championships. And so as I

1016
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: went through that team, they all want elsewhere. And so

1017
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: it was all about and the coaches and one elsewhere,

1018
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: and so it was all about we made it. Hey,

1019
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: let's win together, Matt. We we all know what it

1020
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: feels like to win. Let's make sure that we're doing

1021
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: that every day. So my whole thing was we're gonna

1022
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: establish a winning culture, and that means we got to

1023
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: compete to win every day. And we compete with one

1024
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: another first, and we prepare, you know, for our opponents,

1025
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: and then we begin to compete compete against them. Okay,

1026
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: So this is and and again, if you're tight on time,

1027
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: you tell me. So this is so much fascinating to me.

1028
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: There hasn't been a job that you've gone to where

1029
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: And again, you know, there's probably some guys you're not mentioning,

1030
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: but most coaches confide in coaches and people like me,

1031
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: and they're like you know, wait to get my guys

1032
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: in here, right, and you know, and they run, they

1033
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: run guys off, They call them in and and they

1034
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: say like, look, man, you're a great kid. You're just

1035
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: never gonna play here, got YadA YadA, And they just

1036
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: buy time until their their recruits come in and now

1037
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: they're they're all in, which I always find to be

1038
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: a mistake. Yeah, is that why why do you it

1039
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: doesn't do not seem to have that. Is it because

1040
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: of the guys that proceeded you left you or is

1041
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: it that it's just a philosophical belief that you have. Yeah,

1042
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: I think it's a belief. I mean for sure. I

1043
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: mean they chose that school for a reason, and you know,

1044
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: they chose those coaches, and they have a right to

1045
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: if they want to leave, you know, when you first

1046
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: get there, then that's fine. I'm not trying to hold anybody,

1047
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: hold anybody here. But if they want to stay, I

1048
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: want them to be able to. They have their scholarship,

1049
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: they want to they want to do that. I want

1050
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: them to do that. But they're gonna be a part

1051
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: of this program and do it the way we ask

1052
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: them to do it and and all that, um, But

1053
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, I believe retention is a key thing. You know,

1054
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: and in any college basketball program or any endeavor for

1055
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: that matter. UM, you know, when you when have folks

1056
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: that you know are all in, you want to keep them.

1057
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: You know, you look at all the great college football

1058
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: and basketball programs over the years. You know, the head

1059
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: coach stays there. The assistant coaches, you know, for the

1060
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: most parts, stay there unless they're moving on to head jobs.

1061
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: Those are the teams that they usually went. UM And

1062
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: if you have a lot of volatility and change every year,

1063
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: and I know that's gonna be harder, you know, as

1064
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: they change these rules. I mean, it's just it is

1065
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: what it is. Um, Retention is a huge thing, you know.

1066
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,959
Speaker 1: Like that, I guess, I guess this is an honest question.

1067
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: But why why do we we we seem to let

1068
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: these exterior forces be a part of this change when

1069
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: you and I have been around this our entire lives

1070
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: and we know that's actually not And look, I'm a

1071
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: transfer okay, but I and I was before I even

1072
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: got and I got in trouble, I was considering transferring.

1073
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that I think there's a there's

1074
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: a maybe another discussion. I think that one of the

1075
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: biggest issues is that you don't get enough time to

1076
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: truly recruit somebody and know that kid and him know

1077
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: you so that so that when you when he shows

1078
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: up on campus, you actually know what you got on

1079
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: both sides, right, And I think that would I think

1080
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: that would help. But it feels like we're all like,

1081
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's just the times to transfer and not

1082
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: sit out like why but because somebody on the on

1083
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: on Twitter who's never been a part of it doesn't

1084
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: understand that every freshman wants to transfer. They all they

1085
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: want to transfer to the NBA or to another school,

1086
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: right because, But but you know what else, Almost every

1087
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: college kid wants to transfer because your freshman year is hard.

1088
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: It's really hard that classes are hard and you're away

1089
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: from home, you have to manage a budget, it to

1090
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: mends your time, your demands, your relationships. Like it's really hard,

1091
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: you know. I feel for the kids are freshman right now.

1092
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: This is their first experience in college. My son's one

1093
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: of them, and it's just, you know, it's not normal.

1094
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: You know, you're getting your nose poked and tested constantly,

1095
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: and you know you gotta go back to your dorm

1096
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: room or your wherever you live, and you know, I

1097
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: can't be exposed to anyone. It's just not a normal situation.

1098
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: And uh, you know it's it's uh, everybody sacrificed, and

1099
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: certainly this year, you know, hopefully we'll get back to

1100
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: normal at some point. Okay, so how did you how

1101
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: did you make it hit? Like? What what? When? When?

1102
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: When did it like this is gonna work? Yeah? I

1103
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: mean I think that first year. I mean I I

1104
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: called that team the foundational team, you know, and we

1105
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: compared it to a house. You know, when you establish

1106
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: a foundation, that foundation has got to be strong. I

1107
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: can't have any cracks in and I inherited some great guys,

1108
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: and I going back to the culture thing, you know,

1109
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: trying to create a winning culture. And you know, going

1110
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: back to what you said, it's not about what the

1111
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: previous staff did or saying, oh they have bad culture

1112
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. We're trying to change the culture now. We're

1113
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 1: not trying to do that. We're trying to establish our

1114
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: own winning culture. I don't I don't care what happened before.

1115
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that every day that they

1116
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: come in here, they're trying to win and you know

1117
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: that means against one another, whether it's a one on

1118
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: one drill or whatever. It is, like, we're gonna be competitive,

1119
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: and if you're not, you're fooling yourself because when the

1120
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: game happens, you're gonna get beat, you know, on a

1121
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: regular basis. And you know, this game is played with physicality.

1122
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: It's played, you know, with the physical side of things,

1123
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: but it's also played, you know, on the mental side

1124
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: of things, and if you don't have both, you know

1125
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna get beat. And so we spend a lot

1126
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: of time, you know, with our guys working on working

1127
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: on both, and you know, and then you know, I

1128
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: think the distractions are are a big part of why

1129
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: teams don't win. And I was very fortunate that first

1130
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: year did not have many distractions in terms of all

1131
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: the court things that can derail you know, a team

1132
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: and its ability to to go for it. These guys

1133
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: were all in um and yeah we weren't great, but

1134
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: we still want twenty one games. They had won prior

1135
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: to that seven straight twenty glass season. And so this kid,

1136
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: this team, you know, had the biggest turnaround in Division One.

1137
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: You know that that year, and you know, while we

1138
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: didn't win our goal or make our goal when they

1139
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: make the ns A tournament. It was evident that everybody

1140
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: was coming back and we had a chance to be

1141
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: really good that next year. Now we were gonna still

1142
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: have to beat you know, Vermon team. It was spectacular,

1143
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, Um, so Simes, when guys come back. Sometimes

1144
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: when guys came back, it's kind of a good thing,

1145
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: right because because they have they have, everybody expects more. Yeah,

1146
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: fans expect more, but everybody expects expects more. Um, what

1147
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 1: was that next year? Like? Well, the next year it

1148
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: was the n c A tournament year and you know, yeah,

1149
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: we got off to a good start. Um, we did

1150
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: have a few injuries. You know, we're Jari's m A

1151
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: game or two Jordan's MR game or two my my

1152
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: kind of guards there kJ miss the first two games.

1153
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: It was the starting point guard. Um. You know when

1154
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: we played Arizona and s MU and so you know,

1155
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:25,479
Speaker 1: I knew we had a chance when we were playing

1156
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:30,479
Speaker 1: Arizona and you know, they couldn't really separate them until

1157
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: the very end. Um, you know, they would get out

1158
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, eight nine points and then all of a

1159
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: sudden we'd close it back. You know, and then halftime

1160
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: we're down seven or eight or something like that, and

1161
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: they'd get it out to sixteen and then all of

1162
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 1: a sudden, it's three. You know that that particular team

1163
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 1: was resilient. And we played that particular game without kJ Marrow,

1164
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: who ended up it was our point guard, um, kind

1165
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: of the maestro of the whole team. Um, And we

1166
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: were still in it. And so I felt like this

1167
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: particular team had a chance, you know, do something special

1168
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: at least in the non conference. Uh told me that.

1169
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: And then once we got into conference play, we were

1170
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: pretty consistent. You know. We we lost even though we

1171
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: lost her Vermont twice, we only lost one other game,

1172
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, in conference play, and so

1173
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: we knew, you know, if we wanted to make it eventually,

1174
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to go through Vermont, you know at

1175
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: that point, and uh, you know, obviously we were able

1176
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: to do that in the final game. What's that experience like?

1177
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: Because everybody focuses on the Virginia game, but but the

1178
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: Vermont game gets you actually like, that's that's the big one.

1179
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: That's the one that the rest of dicy Yeah, what

1180
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: do you what do you remember about that game? Yeah.

1181
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: I mean it was just a hotly contested game. Uh,

1182
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: places packed obviously. UM, I think we're up maybe a

1183
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: couple at half, and and we were fortunate to be up.

1184
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: I mean they were they were playing well. We made

1185
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: some shots at the end of the half just to

1186
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: just to kind of that out. Um. You know what

1187
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: I remember most is kJ our point guard getting his

1188
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: fourth foul with about eight minutes to go or twelve

1189
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: nights to go, and I was like, oh crap, we're

1190
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: in trouble here, and we kind of locked into something,

1191
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, that particular game. I put him back in early,

1192
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: and I changed the matchup, you know, for who he

1193
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: was gonna guard, and I put him on a shooter,

1194
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: which wasn't a normal thing for us. You know, he

1195
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 1: always guarded the other team's point guard. He was defensive

1196
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: player of the Year that year. Um, even though he's

1197
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: five seven and so he would always pestor like your

1198
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: son pestor the other team's boy card and her mind

1199
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: had a great point for that year. Tray Belle Haynes

1200
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: was spectacular. He was hard to pester her, and we

1201
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: ended up moving the match up and put a bigger

1202
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: guy on Belle Haynes and kJ ended up Garden the shooter,

1203
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: and so it allowed him to kind of stay in

1204
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: the game longer, you know, without risking a foul um

1205
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: And so that was a huge key. And then at

1206
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: the end, you know, obviously Jared's was Jared's. Jared's worked

1207
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: really hard for that moment, and you know, I could

1208
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: have been more proud of him and the growth that

1209
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: he showed over the two years that I was fortunate

1210
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: enough to coach him. He was a great player, a

1211
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: great score, dynamic player. He was the best player in

1212
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: the league to me that year, even though he didn't

1213
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: get Player of the Year um. And for him to

1214
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: have the ball at the end of the game in

1215
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 1: that moment was the right thing and it was the

1216
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: way it should have ended. And uh, you know, I

1217
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: wanted to run another play, and Kj's yelling at me, no,

1218
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: don't run that play because it required him to give

1219
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 1: the ball up, and so I hadn't trust What did

1220
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 1: you want? What did you want to run? So I

1221
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: wanted to run just one of our plays called euro Too,

1222
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: where you know, kJ starts it and then he flips

1223
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: it back to jareds Jared's gets it, you know, a

1224
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: pick and roll screen comes out and then he's able

1225
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: to kind of get downhill and make the play. And

1226
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 1: it would have required Jared's already had the ball and

1227
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't called it time out right, Um,

1228
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: And so that is that typically your style in terms

1229
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: of not calling a time out usually yeah, usually, you know,

1230
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: I like to like my guys will be able to

1231
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: know what to do in those instances. Um. Not to

1232
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: say that I won't call it time outs, I certainly will,

1233
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: you know if if it's not going well. Um, But

1234
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, I like to be

1235
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: able to coach from the side there where they can't

1236
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: get it set and like the up and trust my

1237
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: guys and and that particular team, I had no reason

1238
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: not to trust them. Um, you know, three really good

1239
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: guards that you know knew what to do. And I've

1240
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: never understood there's a lot of there's lots of coaches

1241
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 1: who like, not only you practice this all year, you

1242
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 1: play it all year right in front of your bench. Yeah,

1243
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: and yet they want to call it time out, which

1244
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: allows the other guy to set their defense. Like I don't.

1245
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 1: I don't understand, I really, for the life made don't

1246
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: understand still. Um, and and sometimes you know, you want

1247
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: to get somebody in or whatever for a match up,

1248
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: but I don't understand anyway. Okay, so he has the ball.

1249
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: What what? What's My job at that point was to

1250
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: get everybody the hell out of the way, get it

1251
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: get its space, baby, get it space. Letting go. And

1252
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: he delivered, you know, he delivered. So it's not complicated,

1253
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: right the sele so double zeros in the cloth. Yeah, okay,

1254
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: you look up what you look up at the scoreboard,

1255
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 1: You look at your family, like, what what? What do

1256
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: you remember about the moment? Yeah, I mean I remember

1257
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 1: hugging my kid. I remember hugging my wife, you know,

1258
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: and and every player. Um, you know, I remember having

1259
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: a moment with my A d you know, leaved in

1260
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: me and our staff. He's crying, you know, we're all crying. Um.

1261
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 1: My best friend in the world, Griff Aldrich, who is

1262
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: now the coach of Longwood. Um, you know it was

1263
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer, uh in in my college teammate. Uh decided

1264
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: he wanted to coach, you know. Um, and he came. Yeah,

1265
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: so he came with me when I first came to NBC.

1266
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: And uh so he and I were hugging big time.

1267
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: You know, to have that experience with your best friend,

1268
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty cool. Um. And so yeah, I

1269
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 1: mean it was an emotional time. I mean that game

1270
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: is way more emotional than you know, the Virginia game obviously,

1271
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: um not obviously, but for us it was because you

1272
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: know how it is, you it comes down to that

1273
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: one weekend, like you have the best season. We just experienced,

1274
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: it comes down, it comes down. We were the number

1275
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: one seed. We got knocked out. You know, the other

1276
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: team gets hot at the end and in the last

1277
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: eight minutes and hey, the season's over. You walk in

1278
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: the locker room and like what just happened? You know,

1279
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. Um. So so you get back and

1280
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: that championships a little bit early, right, so now you

1281
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: you gotta gotta get ready. What what what was Selection Sunday?

1282
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: Like Selection Sunday? It was fun. You know, they had

1283
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: a big party on campus and you know the typical thing, uh,

1284
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: CBS wanted to do that in person whatever live looking

1285
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: you know with us, you know, because it was our

1286
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: first time going to the tournament since two thousand and eight,

1287
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,719
Speaker 1: and we had a you know, a crazy envy obviously

1288
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 1: in in the conference final, and so that was great,

1289
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: and then you know we see Virginia's name pop up.

1290
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: I was expecting, quite honestly, to be a fifteen. We

1291
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 1: had a good team that year. Um, I felt our

1292
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: numbers would be such that we would be in that

1293
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: fifteen line. And so I was really thinking, Duke, you know,

1294
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 1: I was thinking some of those teams that were on

1295
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: the two line that we would end up playing. And

1296
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: uh so I was a little bit shocked, and I did.

1297
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 1: We all did a collective gulp and gas we saw

1298
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 1: Virginia because they were just so good that year. I mean,

1299
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: they were so good and we didn't know Hunter was

1300
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: going to be out at that point, you know. Um

1301
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: So it was just and and for me, a lot

1302
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: of emotions because I grew up there, you know, going

1303
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: back to that, you know, I grew up there. That's

1304
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: where I first fell in love with Hoops. You know,

1305
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 1: we got a lot of respect for me and his staff.

1306
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: So it was it was that that part was was

1307
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Um um, you know, at the bridge

1308
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: and everything and Terry Holland staff. Okay, so you're throwing

1309
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: the tape, yeah, and you're sitting there with your staff.

1310
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I thought this

1311
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 1: is the best team in college basketball. They're the most

1312
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: well balanced team on both sides of the ball. Um,

1313
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, are we gonna be able to score thirty six?

1314
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: You know? And that's the reality. That's what every coach

1315
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: when you're you know, ready to play Virginia, it's like,

1316
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: you know, they may not they may not go to

1317
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: eighty on you, all right, but can you get the forty?

1318
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: You know? I mean that's the reality. Um, you know,

1319
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: they're gonna get the sixty. Most likely, they're probably gonna

1320
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: get the seventy if they want. They don't really go

1321
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: past that very often, at least in that that era,

1322
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: they didn't. Um, you know, I've seen them play teams

1323
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: earlier in the year that they held the thirty six

1324
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,679
Speaker 1: points n c A tournament teams, and so we knew

1325
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: we we had a tough, tough task, a tough draw.

1326
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: One of the things that helped us with that draw

1327
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: was weeks of preparation. You know. For Vermont, you know,

1328
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: they play a similar brand of defense. Um, you know,

1329
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: they guard you hard, but they they don't allow threes.

1330
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:54,560
Speaker 1: You know, they guard the two extremely well. At the

1331
01:14:54,680 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 1: rim the rotations or pristine um. And so we had

1332
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 1: a lot of prep you know, leading into the Virginia games,

1333
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: that type of defense UM and that that certainly helped

1334
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:12,640
Speaker 1: us offensively. When did you know what Hunter was up? Uh?

1335
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 1: Not until we were on the plane going down there. Yeah.

1336
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,560
Speaker 1: So that was probably on a Wednesday, maybe two or

1337
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: three days before the game something like that. I think

1338
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,600
Speaker 1: that's about what we figured it out, all right, And

1339
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're like, wait a second, hold on,

1340
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: this is a it's a that's a great deal. Yeah,

1341
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. Yeah, because whenever they needed

1342
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: a basket, they were going to him, you know, and

1343
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: like and sometimes it was a post up you know

1344
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: whatever if they ever got dicey, you know, they were

1345
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: running something to get him the ball in and near

1346
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 1: the basket or in kind of a mid post area

1347
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: or up near the elbow and is so situation. And

1348
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 1: so I knew he would be a problem. Not that

1349
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: I felt like we could guard all the other guys,

1350
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: but you know, I knew that had the potential to

1351
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: change it someone you know, um, at least at least

1352
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: it did. It certainly didn't hurt. Let's just say that,

1353
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: but it also it also defensively changed them because now

1354
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: they had to play two traditional bigs, you know, and

1355
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, so okay, so you know, I know how

1356
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: it works. I've been in those locker rooms, and I've

1357
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: never been in the locker room work. You know, couldn't

1358
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: make you believe you had a chance, and that if

1359
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 1: you execute the game plan, like we're gonna win this game, fellas,

1360
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:29,600
Speaker 1: and here's how we're gonna do it, and you're like,

1361
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, and um, what was the belief

1362
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: level like from your team in your prep? I knew

1363
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: never to doubt that particular team, you know, I wasn't

1364
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: saying that we you know, I would never say that

1365
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: we knew we were gonna win the game. You know.

1366
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 1: Our Our goal was to be competitive in the game

1367
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 1: and to the end the game and to have a

1368
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 1: chance at the end. I mean that that was really

1369
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: our whole focus. Obviously, the result ended up being totally different,

1370
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, than what anybody ever imagined. But it was

1371
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 1: about how are we going to stay in it on

1372
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: offensive defense? And we felt like the defense was the

1373
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: way for us to stay in the game. To be honest, like,

1374
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 1: we knew scoring on them was gonna be insane, insanely difficult,

1375
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 1: and so we felt like we had a very good

1376
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: defensive team that year, and our goal was pressure those

1377
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: guards as much as you can um and and not

1378
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: allow them to center the ball. I mean, that was

1379
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: kind of our whole, our whole thing. So you you

1380
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: felt like your defense was the way in which you'd

1381
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: win you you'd win the game, right, Yeah, So I

1382
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 1: felt like defense was our way to stay in the game.

1383
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: Like I didn't want our guys like when you played

1384
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 1: a Virginia Virginia team, frustration sets in, you know how

1385
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: it is you were a player, Like if you're not

1386
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:54,639
Speaker 1: scoring sometimes that that could impact the defense down. Yeah,

1387
01:17:54,680 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 1: your defense that breakdown. And so that was awful message

1388
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 1: to them, like we can't get seduced into an offensive

1389
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: game against them or get frustrated because our offens isn't

1390
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 1: going well. We have to guard every single possession like

1391
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 1: it's the last one. And we we we we did

1392
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,720
Speaker 1: some specific things relative to them and how they run

1393
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: that movie blocker and all that. We felt like we

1394
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: needed to pressure them. We had seen a lot of

1395
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: teams just back up, you know, and and not get

1396
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 1: after them. We had seen a lot of teams not

1397
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: try to run them, you know as well, because they

1398
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,440
Speaker 1: do a good job of getting back on defense and transition,

1399
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 1: and we I wanted our guys to take the opportunities

1400
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: early in transition if they were there, because you're not

1401
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: just gonna be able to hold the ball against them

1402
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,640
Speaker 1: and move it around and get a great shot. Like

1403
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 1: sometimes the best shot you can get against them is early,

1404
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: and so I wanted our guys to try to do

1405
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: that and if they had it, let's roll with it.

1406
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: But at the same time, don't take a bad We

1407
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: practice all week shooting against hands, you know, and pressure,

1408
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: because they're always gonna be there pretty much at front

1409
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 1: of you, and you're gonna have we practice well behind

1410
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 1: the line shooting threes because we knew, you know, those

1411
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: are the shots that that you can get against them.

1412
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: We were honest with our team about like, if you're

1413
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: gonna win this game, you're gonna have to outshoot them,

1414
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to keep them from shooting threes.

1415
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: It can't just be take away the rim and then

1416
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're getting ten threes as well.

1417
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: Just like us. We're not gonna win with that, And

1418
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 1: so we had to take away their three, defend like

1419
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 1: crazy and rebound and we had to make threes, you know,

1420
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: layups basically. I mean that's really the gameplay wasn't was

1421
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: much more than that, Yeah, I mean like you also

1422
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: spread amount, yeah, of course, yeah. I mean we changed

1423
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 1: our angles on our ball screens and all that we

1424
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:50,600
Speaker 1: did set in middles you know, because they they're so

1425
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 1: well schooled, it's stepping out. We said, all flats. Um,

1426
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: you know that was that was kind of the you know,

1427
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 1: the game playing there. I think that's my I think

1428
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 1: that's one thing though that like you know, now a

1429
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 1: couple of years later, maybe you still don't get creditable.

1430
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: Wasn't just because people go back, well they didn't have

1431
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,720
Speaker 1: DeAndre Hunter, so you know, like no, you guys did

1432
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: some specific things that made it really way more difficult.

1433
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 1: You knew how because because they are they were And

1434
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: this is where I had a I had a long

1435
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 1: conversation with Tony like a week later, and I and

1436
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 1: and my my message to him was like you can't.

1437
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 1: You can't just do what you do and you have

1438
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: to try different things, play left hand. It's um, you know,

1439
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,519
Speaker 1: figure out a way. I mean, like, okay, Hunter gets hurt.

1440
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: What lineups had you tried all year long? You know,

1441
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 1: in in case, what if you got three fouls in

1442
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,720
Speaker 1: the first half? You know, what if a kid what

1443
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: if a kid is sick? And uh and and what

1444
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: if a team knows what you do and designs and

1445
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 1: as personnel to execute and make you chase him? So

1446
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: I think you don't to this day, I just we

1447
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: don't cover things the way I mean, I just wish

1448
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: there was like a college basketball matchup show where I go, like,

1449
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't just that they made a bunch of threes,

1450
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: it was they did some things specifically because we're fascinating

1451
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 1: and that you should get credit for. Okay, so you

1452
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: get to the game. Um, games can be won and

1453
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 1: lost in layup lines. Question. Right when the guys started speaking,

1454
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 1: they go home, they look good. We we we don't. Um,

1455
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: what did you when you looked your team in the eye?

1456
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 1: What did you see when you're standing in front of them? Yeah,

1457
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean I saw I saw a bunch of guys

1458
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 1: that had never looked and that were including myself. You

1459
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:52,600
Speaker 1: know that you know had an opportunity. You know, I

1460
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 1: had an opportunity, and I felt like there was a

1461
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 1: reason that we were in that building at that moment.

1462
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 1: What that reason was, I wasn't quite sure. I wasn't

1463
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily think that we were gonna win the

1464
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 1: game going into that right. And while I'm giving that speech,

1465
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 1: but my speech to them prior to that game was

1466
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 1: a thankful one. I thank those guys for bringing me

1467
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: and my family back to Shark where I was let go.

1468
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: That was it, you know, I just said, look, you

1469
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 1: know this this you know, this business is extremely hard

1470
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. We all have our own stories, right.

1471
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: Jared started at VCU with Shaka, didn't go well. He

1472
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 1: ends up at Robert Morris, stays there for half the year,

1473
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: then he lands at the U NBC kJ. You know,

1474
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:43,759
Speaker 1: he gets let go at Texas A and m Corpus

1475
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,759
Speaker 1: Christy and uh, you know, has to go to JUCO

1476
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 1: for a year, you know, uh, rehabilitates himself and then

1477
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a Division one offer except for us

1478
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 1: and ends up there. Joe Sherburn had one D one offer,

1479
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, and it was umb see, like you go

1480
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 1: around the room and it was just like a bunch

1481
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 1: of overlooked guys. You know that it had that had

1482
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: a story. And I said, we're all here in this

1483
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: moment together. We've done this together, you know, at this time.

1484
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 1: Then you guys in particular have done this for me,

1485
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 1: and so I'm forever grateful, you know, for what you

1486
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: guys have done. Now let's go out there and just

1487
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: show everybody our passion and and and belief in one another.

1488
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: You know that we can compete with this team. And

1489
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: you know, I shed some tears, I'll be quite frank

1490
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:34,799
Speaker 1: with you. You know while I was giving that speech,

1491
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: and it was very emotional. Um, and that was, you know,

1492
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: not the first time I do that with my team,

1493
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: not all the time, but you know, I'm real and uh,

1494
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think they appreciated that they understood the

1495
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: message and more than anything, they were ready. They knew

1496
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,600
Speaker 1: they had an opportunity to make history, and so they

1497
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 1: wanted to go for it. And uh, you know, there

1498
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,719
Speaker 1: were some bumps in that first half, but the defense

1499
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: kept us okay. So so so and I remember I'm

1500
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: sitting there watching the game and I said, I went

1501
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 1: with a group of guys and I go, they got them,

1502
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: and they're like, it's like, Virginia is gonna kick their

1503
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: ass in the second half. You know how this goes? Right?

1504
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: Like they got I said, they said they can't guard them. Yeah,

1505
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: they can't. They're they're they're too quick. They can't guard

1506
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: the ball, you know. And the it's the it's the

1507
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: what we always learned. We try and tell kids all

1508
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: the time. It's like, hey man, you want to get

1509
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 1: on the floor. Yeah, the first thing you have to

1510
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: be able to do is guard the basketball, right, And

1511
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 1: it's the best thing that they do in Virginia. And

1512
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 1: I felt like you had them spread out, they were

1513
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: kind of chasing. They were chasing yet and I was like,

1514
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 1: if they could just hit a couple, hit a couple

1515
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 1: of jump shots, you know, they just they can't. It's

1516
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: a bad matchup because you got there. You got their

1517
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 1: big thirty feet from the basket chasing you around. And

1518
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: and um, what's the name of that big white kid

1519
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: that that Virginia had did a great name? Salt Jack,

1520
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: Salt Jack, salt right Jack. Salt is a great name.

1521
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: But I've done their game, I think earlier in the

1522
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: year when they had played in um Deston, Florida and

1523
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 1: I and I loved him, and I was just like, yeah,

1524
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 1: but you know those tough twos, you know, back to

1525
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: the baths, get post up two is like, there's a

1526
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 1: reason analytics tell you those are a tough shot, and

1527
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 1: you guys are playing the post, right, I was like,

1528
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,679
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think Jack Salt can score twenty

1529
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 1: and I think that you guys can hit some threes.

1530
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: And the guys around like, watch this ship. They're gonna

1531
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,719
Speaker 1: you know, BC's gonna score ten in the second half. Okay,

1532
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 1: So come in there, you come in in half, okay.

1533
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 1: And the way it works is, hey, the the players

1534
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: run in and you meet your staff. What's your staff said?

1535
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 1: I think they were optimistic, you know, I mean they

1536
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 1: always get really good thoughts, and when we talked about

1537
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: offense first, and then we talked about the defense and

1538
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 1: just little little things that we need to pay attention to.

1539
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: And so really halftime was about, you know, highlighting things

1540
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: that we tried to do going into the game to

1541
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: actually get them done. Uh in first half or did

1542
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: we not? I thought we did. You know, I felt

1543
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 1: like we were good on the glass. They got a

1544
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: couple of offensive rebounds, but we were pretty solid there.

1545
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: I think offensively you know. Pressure. Our pressure was was solid. Um.

1546
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: You know, they were able, they were able to just

1547
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,360
Speaker 1: get into the paint constantly on us, you know. Um.

1548
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: And I felt like our ability to navigate the screens

1549
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: like that was a big We work on that a

1550
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: ton alright, navigating defending that mover blocker because you know,

1551
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 1: you go as soon as you go the wrong way,

1552
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: they make you pay with the three R. And so

1553
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: our our goal was we we compared it to Tom Brady.

1554
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 1: If you let Tom Brady sit back and hide, get

1555
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: as the point guard and and just you know, see everything,

1556
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 1: he's gonna pick him with him heart. And so we said,

1557
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 1: pressure the guy. I don't care who it is, if

1558
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 1: the big guy has it out top, if the point

1559
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: guard has it. Whoever that guy is that's going from

1560
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 1: the wing centering the ball, try to keep him on

1561
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 1: his side and just pressure the crap out of him

1562
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:25,560
Speaker 1: just to disrupt the timing of their screening angles and

1563
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 1: to give the defender time to get through. And so

1564
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: we worked on that a ton, and I thought that

1565
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: was pretty successful for us. You know, we were always

1566
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: kind of there when they caught the ball. I mean,

1567
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: that was the key. I don't care which lady you go,

1568
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 1: just be right there when you catch him, and um,

1569
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, I thought that was a big key for us.

1570
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:47,599
Speaker 1: And then offensively, our guys felt like, hey, we missed

1571
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,760
Speaker 1: some shots out there. You know we can we can

1572
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: we can get some shots against them. We just got

1573
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: to knock him in. And you know, we got off

1574
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 1: to a good start right out of the right out

1575
01:27:57,439 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: of the gate out a halftime and uh, which was

1576
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 1: not an un uh something that I hadn't seen before

1577
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 1: with this team. This team is you know, they've they've

1578
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: been tied at half and then come out and and

1579
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: and gone on runs, you know, big runs, you know,

1580
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 1: at times during the season. But I would also say

1581
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,599
Speaker 1: it wasn't an unnatural position for Virginia. Either they've been

1582
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: tied or down one or up to plenty of times,

1583
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, like stuff. For them, there was no reason

1584
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: for concern at that point. It was just, Hey, we're

1585
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: gonna win the game. You know, we're gonna figure it out.

1586
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:33,839
Speaker 1: So when did you know after? I mean I probably

1587
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: I probably knew that we had a a significant chance

1588
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: around that eight minute time out right in there, Like

1589
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 1: we had a we had a solid chance because we

1590
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 1: had gone up so so much, and I had seen

1591
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:52,720
Speaker 1: our team. My job at that point was, hey, don't

1592
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 1: take the foot off the gas, because as soon as

1593
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 1: you take the foot off again, you start you start

1594
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: coughing the ball up. You know, they lay it up,

1595
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: you know, because they're gonna change the way that they're playing, like,

1596
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: they're gonna come after you. They're gonna value more. They're

1597
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:08,960
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna hope that the rest don't call it. Uh,

1598
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: They're just gonna go for it. They're gonna shoot it quicker. Um,

1599
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 1: can we get the rebounds? You know, because they're shooting

1600
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: it quicker like all those in Play Fallward. I think

1601
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,800
Speaker 1: that's what I kept saying, Playfallward, taking when it's there,

1602
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: and uh, you know the guys ended up doing that,

1603
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,759
Speaker 1: and and the the Again, the parts of the story

1604
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: that aren't told enough are it wasn't like you hit

1605
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:37,479
Speaker 1: a miracle shot. Yeah right. It wasn't like some things

1606
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 1: that go you got a crazy call. It was a

1607
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:43,839
Speaker 1: no doubt, it was a blowout. What are those moments

1608
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 1: like as you're looking up and no, it's because I'll

1609
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 1: just and I know again, I understand you've been gracious

1610
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: for your time. My first game calling a game in

1611
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:55,680
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament. Second excuse me was um

1612
01:29:56,120 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: Southern against Glenzaga and and and Glenzaga end up losing

1613
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 1: the next game, uh to whitch Top, but it was

1614
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 1: tied or Southern was leading with four minutes to go,

1615
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there with Spirodidas and we're sitting there

1616
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: going holy shit, like and you know, Southern's got this

1617
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: incredible band, but it's in Salt Lake City and suddenly

1618
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: there's like sixteen thousand and Southern fans Like what going on? Right? Yeah?

1619
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 1: So what what are those? What's that? What are those minutes?

1620
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: Like it's like five minutes ago, you're up fifteen on Virginia.

1621
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:34,200
Speaker 1: No one's ever done before. You're kicking their ass. They're

1622
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: chasing you around, like what it's out of body experience? What?

1623
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 1: What is what? What? What? What is that? Like? I mean, honestly,

1624
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,880
Speaker 1: you're coaching the game, Betwe mean, you know, it wasn't

1625
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: anything crazy. You know, like you're you're in the game.

1626
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 1: You you're a player, like you've coached too. You know,

1627
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,720
Speaker 1: it's like you're you're just trying to get to the end.

1628
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to do your best for your

1629
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:02,679
Speaker 1: team to get hurry up. You're a nervous wreck. You're

1630
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 1: a nervous wreck. You're nervous that you know the fouls

1631
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna start, because at the end of games like that,

1632
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 1: they started driving to the basket over and over it.

1633
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 1: I was worried, we're gonna stop the clock every time,

1634
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, with fouls, and they were gonna shoot. It

1635
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 1: was gonna be a parade in the free throw line.

1636
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:18,760
Speaker 1: And so you know, I learned long ago Dad used

1637
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:20,760
Speaker 1: to always start looking at that when he had leads.

1638
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: He'd started looking at the all right, what do I

1639
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:25,760
Speaker 1: need to get to? All right, they can't get to

1640
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean from a number standpoint, And

1641
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 1: so that was why I just encouraged me to keep

1642
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 1: keep trying to score. If it's there, you know, take

1643
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:37,040
Speaker 1: it when it's there, because we were we were clearly

1644
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 1: shooting it well, so there was no reason to not

1645
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: not do that. But yeah, didn't it all hit me

1646
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 1: as soon as we we let that the clock clock

1647
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: go shot clock. We had a shock clock violation, and

1648
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 1: it was just like a wave of emotion. It was

1649
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of like, Wow, this thing really happened. Who account?

1650
01:31:56,439 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 1: What now? How do you even play the next? I mean,

1651
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: you know, I wrote on the board at the end

1652
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: of that game, I went there, I wrote zero and one, right,

1653
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,599
Speaker 1: and I exed out the zero and I wrote one,

1654
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 1: and I said, you guys are the one. And then

1655
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 1: below that I wrote zero and zero, and I said,

1656
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be a shame, all right if we were

1657
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 1: still thinking about being the one up here in this

1658
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:32,200
Speaker 1: one and one? Yeah, one and one, and we didn't

1659
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: take advantage of the zero and zero the first sixteens opportunity?

1660
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 1: All right, there's a responsibility that goes without And so

1661
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 1: let's all focus for the next two days and and

1662
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,439
Speaker 1: do our best, you know, to to play our best,

1663
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, give our best from a from a preparation standpoint,

1664
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,200
Speaker 1: do our best with the distractions while still having fun

1665
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 1: with it, and and go for it. And the guys

1666
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: did that. You know. We were in the game. We

1667
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 1: couldn't score basket, but neither Kansas State, and so it

1668
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 1: was a it was a knockdown drag out to the end. Um.

1669
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I think we had eighteen chances, you know, to take

1670
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: the lead in that game, and we weren't able to

1671
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:12,640
Speaker 1: do it. But one of the coolest moments for me

1672
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 1: was before the game ever started. You know, I'm in

1673
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 1: the locker room and you know it is you'r. You

1674
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 1: talked to your team and then then go out, and

1675
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 1: I was in the locker room by myself, and you know,

1676
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 1: it was probably a minute and a half after they

1677
01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:34,839
Speaker 1: left where I could hear the entire arena go berserk,

1678
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: and I knew exactly what it was this crew that

1679
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 1: nobody cared about. They were going for them, and so

1680
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 1: that that made me happy without a doubt. Okay, so

1681
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,679
Speaker 1: now we're a couple of years removed, and now you're

1682
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 1: you were the one seed, you were the big dog,

1683
01:33:55,320 --> 01:34:01,360
Speaker 1: and you got upset. Yeah. Um, And the the problem

1684
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 1: with UNBC is you're not gonna get a chance to

1685
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 1: go back to the tournament because just that's just not

1686
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:12,599
Speaker 1: the way the conference is you Yeah, he has there

1687
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,400
Speaker 1: in the In the couple of days since you lost,

1688
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: has there been a moment of I should have taken

1689
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 1: one of those big jobs. No, not at all, because

1690
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: I love this you know, I love this place. You know,

1691
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,400
Speaker 1: I love everything about it. You know, but I understand

1692
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 1: what it is. I understand how hard it is, you know,

1693
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:32,639
Speaker 1: at this level. Um, but you know this, this team,

1694
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:34,680
Speaker 1: I told my team after we lost the other day,

1695
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:37,639
Speaker 1: no one can ever take away you want a regular

1696
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 1: season championship. That's not easy to do like that hadn't

1697
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:42,800
Speaker 1: been done here since two thous eight and even the

1698
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:45,240
Speaker 1: team that went on to be Virginia didn't do that.

1699
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:47,640
Speaker 1: And so they have a lot to be proud of,

1700
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 1: especially in a in a year where there were so

1701
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 1: many other obstacles outside of basketball that they had to

1702
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: navigate just to be able to have a chance act.

1703
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 1: And so no, I'm thankful for the opportunity to coach

1704
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: you know BC. I love the school, I love the

1705
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:07,640
Speaker 1: people here. Um, you know I understand. You know what

1706
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 1: it is. You have to win in March, you know,

1707
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: and that's what you sign up for. And the pressures

1708
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:17,759
Speaker 1: of that, you know, it's it can it's so rewarding,

1709
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:19,920
Speaker 1: but it can be heartbreaking at the same time, like

1710
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: what we're experiencing right now, and it's like your numb

1711
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 1: for two days. You know, you don't even want to

1712
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:27,559
Speaker 1: watch another game because you put so much into it. Um,

1713
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 1: But you know, it is what it is. That's that's

1714
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:37,559
Speaker 1: why March Madness is March madness last thing. Yeah, will

1715
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:42,800
Speaker 1: you secretly cheer against sixteen sees so you're the only

1716
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 1: you're the only one. My wife will? My wife definitely will.

1717
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 1: But no, I don't. I didn't want to say, what,

1718
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 1: Virginia's a one seat in Virginia's a one seat again.

1719
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 1: I know they won't be this year or that they

1720
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 1: were the other year. I'm definitely not cheering against them.

1721
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't want them to have experiencing they don't once

1722
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:06,719
Speaker 1: it's plenty. What what was that experience like to watch

1723
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,800
Speaker 1: them win the national championship just a year after you

1724
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,600
Speaker 1: guys did what you did. No, it was tremendous. I

1725
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:16,679
Speaker 1: mean it was. It was extremely exciting for me because

1726
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, we were part of a part of their story,

1727
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, and you know it's really neat. We had

1728
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: our own story, but they, you know, we were part

1729
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 1: of theirs as well, which were the two schools a

1730
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:32,560
Speaker 1: place where I grew up. You know, I'm forever connected

1731
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 1: to that, you know, which is pretty neat. And I

1732
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 1: know it wasn't a good memory, but it turned out

1733
01:36:37,240 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: to be a good memory for Virginia basketball and Virginia

1734
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 1: fans because it led them to a national championship, which

1735
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 1: is you know what it's all about. I can't tell

1736
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: you how appreciative by your time put up with some

1737
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:55,240
Speaker 1: technical difficulties. I know you gotta go. Let's catch up

1738
01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:58,800
Speaker 1: in person very very soon. Thanks so much for taking

1739
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 1: the time. I was, thank you, thanks for having me.

1740
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:06,760
Speaker 1: My best to your family, same to you. Yeah, well,

1741
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:10,560
Speaker 1: I knew you would appreciate it. It was long, it

1742
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 1: was thoughtful, and I would hope you would one download

1743
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,760
Speaker 1: uh the podcast A download subscribed rate us write a

1744
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:21,760
Speaker 1: review doesn't have to be about me. You can hate me,

1745
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 1: I don't hate you. Uh, right, a review, and I

1746
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:29,080
Speaker 1: think that that helps us in somewhere or someport. But

1747
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 1: more than anything passed on to a friend, Like there's

1748
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 1: some great tidbits about coaching, there's some great tidbits about life. Uh.

1749
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:42,479
Speaker 1: And I think the passion that Ryan lives with the

1750
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,759
Speaker 1: realness with how he coaches kids and how he's handled

1751
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 1: success and failure is nothing short of remarkable. I'm so

1752
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: glad he got a chance to tell that story at

1753
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 1: this time. Anybody can. It's like after when anybody can

1754
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:02,680
Speaker 1: tell story after win? Man, you can't shut me up

1755
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:07,200
Speaker 1: after win. What do you do after lunch Uh, there's

1756
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 1: more great ones to come. I'm so glad you downloaded

1757
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:15,400
Speaker 1: and hope you subscribe. You rate listen to Doug Gallet

1758
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 1: Show daily. Thanks so much for listening on Doug Galley.

1759
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:19,720
Speaker 1: This is album m