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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explore some of the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. Michael Barr and I'm Demien's hassaur and

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Speaker 1: oh my, look who we have. We have professional golfer

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Speaker 1: World Golf Hall of Fame member Davis Love the Third.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, sir for joining us here on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you glad to join in. Well,

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Speaker 1: we got to start out with the abvs Hey, Mr.

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Speaker 1: Captain of the President's Cup in late September, Congratulations, sir.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be captain the President's Cup team. You know,

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Speaker 1: I got to play on six of those, and I've

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Speaker 1: been assistant captain maybe just as many, at least three

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Speaker 1: or four assistant captains for Fred Couples, for Jay Haas,

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Speaker 1: for Steve Stricker. So I'm excited to be the captain

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Speaker 1: and in my home state of Charlotte, so it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be I'm really good at picking home games, right or

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Speaker 1: to one thing. I've always been picking good partners Fred

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Speaker 1: Couples and Tom Kite that day and you were my partners.

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Speaker 1: I'm good at picking home games, So it's gonna be huge. Um.

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Speaker 1: The buildout is incredible. UM. Charlotte, North Carolina. They're thrilled

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Speaker 1: to have major championship golf and now International Championship golf.

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna be a lot of fun. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot to be excited about if you're a golf fan. Um.

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Speaker 1: With the President's Cup coming off, I wonder with the

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Speaker 1: civil war that's taking place in golf right now, would

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Speaker 1: live Is that a good thing or a bad thing

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Speaker 1: for the sport of golf. Um. Well, there's a famous

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Speaker 1: line in golf when something happens, well that's good for

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Speaker 1: the game. Um. That's just the thing that we've always said. Um,

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Speaker 1: because we're polite and we played by the rules and

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Speaker 1: tradition and legacy are so important. This is not good

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Speaker 1: for the game. Um. This is bringing not really business

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Speaker 1: um or structure questions. It's about money. And we've done

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Speaker 1: a great job I think on the PGA Tour of

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Speaker 1: turning it two points and wins and legacy and not

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Speaker 1: that we're playing for a huge amount of money. But

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Speaker 1: this is all about money and greed and it's a fight.

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Speaker 1: So no, it's not good for the game. You know,

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Speaker 1: David's I mean for me it's it's interesting, you know,

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Speaker 1: you had Nicholson concede in some of these texts that

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Speaker 1: kind of hit the wire that you know, the Saudias

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Speaker 1: are indeed have a horrible record on human rights, they

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Speaker 1: execute homosexuals, etcetera. Yet he views live as a way

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Speaker 1: to reshape how the PGA operates. For me, what on

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Speaker 1: earth does he really mean by that? I mean, what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with the PGA and its current form. Well, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: this happened in um you can go back and read

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Speaker 1: the articles Greg Norman World Tour Top thirty. We need to,

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Speaker 1: we need to. Basically, what they wanted is more money

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Speaker 1: for the top players, and they wanted to leave the

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour and create their own entity just for top players. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with the game. You're right. The last

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Speaker 1: twenty years, the game has grown, The professional game has

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Speaker 1: grown exponentially. It's incredible amount of any we're playing for

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Speaker 1: the amount of tournaments that there are, and for a

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Speaker 1: small group of players to say, well that's not enough,

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Speaker 1: we want more, we want to go away, And if

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Speaker 1: it was not for billions of dollars behind it, it

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Speaker 1: would have never gotten off the ground. But what you

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Speaker 1: have to ask yourself, is if millon dollar terms to

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Speaker 1: what the players want, why did somebody have to pay

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Speaker 1: him a hundred million dollars to play in this something?

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Speaker 1: Something is dishonest or wrong if you have to throw

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Speaker 1: that much money at it to make it work. And

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Speaker 1: make no mistake, Greg Norman, the Live Tour, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the Saudis understand about it, the money behind it,

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Speaker 1: but they don't want to coexist. They want to take over.

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Speaker 1: You can hear it in their comments, in their tone.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to coexist with the PGA Tour. They

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Speaker 1: want to crush it and have the PGA Tour be

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Speaker 1: a feeder system to their top forty eight, which is

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Speaker 1: just leaving out hundreds of professional golfers and charities in

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Speaker 1: the lurch to to game. Their ultimate goal is is

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Speaker 1: to dominate professional golf and to own it. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: the phrase throwing money at tiger Woods reportedly turned down

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Speaker 1: at least seven hundred million to eight hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: to play on live and he said no your thoughts

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Speaker 1: about that well, and Jack Nicholas has been public about

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Speaker 1: saying he turned down north of a hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: to be in Greg Norman's role to be the face

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Speaker 1: of the live tour. So here's where I come out

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Speaker 1: on it. If the membership of the PGA Tours against it,

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Speaker 1: which is the players, not the tour structure, the employees

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Speaker 1: of the tour. The PGA players are against it, and

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas is against it, and Tiger Woods is against it,

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Speaker 1: guess what side Davis loves going on. I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna stick with Tiger Woods and Jack Nicholas and and

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Speaker 1: unfortunately we lost Arnold Palmer last year. Year and a

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Speaker 1: half ago, Arnold Palmer was a against this in and

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Speaker 1: actually called a meeting in his office of the top

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Speaker 1: thirty players in the in the world and said this

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Speaker 1: is wrong. So I'm with Arnold and Jack and Tiger.

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Speaker 1: You're exactly right. Um. They play for legacy and history

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Speaker 1: and the trickle down to all the other players that

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Speaker 1: benefit from the top players. We play a hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty six players, hundred six players a week, not thirty,

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Speaker 1: not forty eight. Last week was interesting because a young

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Speaker 1: man twenty years old won a PGA Tour event and

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Speaker 1: earned PGA Tour memberships his lifelong drink. That's interesting, or

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Speaker 1: Tony fen now winning two in a row. Not the

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Speaker 1: same forty eight guys playing an exhibition over and over

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Speaker 1: and over and over. That's gonna get boring. So we

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Speaker 1: know that Phil Mickelson and a bunch of other live

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Speaker 1: golf players have filed this antitrust lawsuit against the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 1: Um they want to get their suspensions lifted. They allege

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Speaker 1: the PGA Tour suspensions really served no purpose but to

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Speaker 1: harm them and to restrict lives growth. You've suggested that

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Speaker 1: if the courts rule in those players favor um PGA

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Speaker 1: Tour players, could I guess, push back or take the

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Speaker 1: next step of boycotting tournaments attended by lived players. Walk

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Speaker 1: me through how you see this taking place. There's there's

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Speaker 1: the frustration of a thirty seven year old tour veteran

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Speaker 1: our thirty seven year tour veteran um a nineteen years

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Speaker 1: in the board room of the PGA Tour where the

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Speaker 1: players j Monahan's comment, The regulations were written by and

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Speaker 1: for the players. We write the rules of the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 1: Those players broke the rules of the PGA Tour and

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Speaker 1: now want to play fourteen exhibition events next year and

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Speaker 1: come back and cherry pick four or five PGA Tour

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Speaker 1: events and some major championships, and they feel like they

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Speaker 1: have earned the right to do that because they are

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Speaker 1: famous golfers. That's not right. You have to play fifteen

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Speaker 1: events on the PGA Tour to be a member. It

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Speaker 1: works for Rory mclroyd. He'st from Ireland, plays the DP

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Speaker 1: World Tour, comes over to the PGA Tour under our

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Speaker 1: regulations and has won the FedEx Cup twice. It works.

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Speaker 1: The system works. We're not restricting anybody from playing. You

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Speaker 1: just have to play by our rules. A simple explanation

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Speaker 1: is I have to commit by Friday to play the

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Speaker 1: next week in the tour events. I can't just say

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Speaker 1: I am a Hall of Famer. I'm a life member

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Speaker 1: of the PGA Tour. I've earned the right to just

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Speaker 1: decide on Tuesday that I want to play. No, I

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Speaker 1: have to play by the rules. I can't fail a

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Speaker 1: drug test and still play because I'm better than everybody else.

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Speaker 1: I have to play by the rules. They knew a

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Speaker 1: year ago, six months ago, if they went to live

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Speaker 1: they were breaking a rule and they would be banned

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Speaker 1: or suspended. They knew it. They willingly did it, so

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Speaker 1: they have to pay the consequences. So my theory is

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Speaker 1: the nuclear option. Yes, if courts say they get to play,

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Speaker 1: we just don't play and then they can't. Look. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's an extreme, but that's how mad the players are

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Speaker 1: is We're getting to that point of we don't want

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Speaker 1: any thing to do with these guys. They're hurting our

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Speaker 1: business and our way of life and our traditions on

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Speaker 1: the PGA tour. You know, Davids do mention the FedEx

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Speaker 1: and we know the FedEx Cup, we know the playoffs

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Speaker 1: are starting this week. We have the same two championship

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Speaker 1: at TPC South Wind in Memphis coming up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: talk to me, who excites you right now? Who's game really?

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Speaker 1: I mean, who are the future torch bearers of the

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Speaker 1: p G A Who is the most exciting game in

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Speaker 1: your opinion? Right now? Here we go, Let's talk golf.

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Speaker 1: Cam Young, Cam Young that finished second of the Open

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Speaker 1: Championship at St. Andrew's. I played with him in Detroit

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Speaker 1: UM two weeks ago. That is, and young Tom Kim

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Speaker 1: that just won the Window yesterday. That's the future of

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Speaker 1: professional golf. The game will move on from Davis Love

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Speaker 1: and Fred Couples. It's gonna move on from from Patrick

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Speaker 1: Cantley and Xander Schof. Eventually there's your young group of kids.

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Speaker 1: The American golfers, um, the international golfers right now that

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Speaker 1: are trying to play on the PGA Tour. Chase Jack

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Entiger Woods records are incredible. But right now as

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Speaker 1: the captain, Will's Alex Horse, Cam Young, come on, boys,

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Speaker 1: I want you on the team there. They both played

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Speaker 1: at Wake Forest. They're they're great buddies. There's a young

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Speaker 1: team that I'll put up against anybody that Trevor ll

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Speaker 1: Woman is going to have on his team. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of excitement now Trevor may have picked up

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Speaker 1: a new guy for the international team with Tom Kim.

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Speaker 1: He put it unbelievably last week. Um, he's been gradually

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Speaker 1: trending up. Now he's a PGA Tour member in the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: So um, it's exciting on both sides. Once we get

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Speaker 1: past the as you said, the civil wars in the background,

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Speaker 1: we're thinking um FedEx Cup and President's Cup right now.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of talking golf, old man Bar got emotional yesterday. Yep,

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Speaker 1: I said it Uh certain, Nick Feldo, he gave his

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Speaker 1: last broadcast in the booth for CBS with Jim Nance,

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Speaker 1: Frank Nabillo and Ian Baker. Finch and Nick Faldo got

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Speaker 1: emotional and it made me emotional listen to how that went.

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Speaker 1: There we are six teams days later, a single chow

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Speaker 1: and I found three brothers. Thank you, thank you. Here's

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Speaker 1: a man who is a six time major champ. He

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Speaker 1: won the p G a Tour event. He was talking

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Speaker 1: about the PGA Tour event in North Carolina for his

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Speaker 1: last broadcast and I have nothing but accolades for it,

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Speaker 1: Nick Faldo. And it was a moment in golf where

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Speaker 1: we've had such an upheaval where it brought it down

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Speaker 1: to earth and it's like, hey, there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: he is, sir, Nick Fouldo. Yeah, that's what's so great

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Speaker 1: about the PGA Tour is we are at collection of

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Speaker 1: golfers that um support each other and play against each

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Speaker 1: other hard, but we're also a family. We're a traveling circus.

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Speaker 1: Fouto was part of the upper echelon of professional golf

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Speaker 1: on the course and then he joined the team CBS

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Speaker 1: Sports that is like a family that covers PJA Tour

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Speaker 1: golf and and he was a big part of that.

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Speaker 1: He sat in that tower for a long time and

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Speaker 1: was the voice for players like me, and it's sad

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Speaker 1: to see him go now. I respect to what he's

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Speaker 1: doing because he loves to fly fish. He likes to

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Speaker 1: play play a little a little bit of golf when

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Speaker 1: when he's not fishing. So I'm envious. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: a sad day for CBS, a sad day for the

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Speaker 1: tour because he's been a great voice. But he's off.

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Speaker 1: He's off to smooth, calm waters and fishing, and I

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Speaker 1: respect him for that. We're gonna miss him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like like his comments or not. He was a great

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Speaker 1: voice with Jim Manson. I wish him well. Yeah, my

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Speaker 1: wife came in the as I'm watching it and he says,

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Speaker 1: are you crying. I'm not crying. He's a big softie.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back for a moment to the

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Speaker 1: business of sports and the business of golf. Because we

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Speaker 1: know that NBC, CBS and E S P and are

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Speaker 1: collectively in the first year of a nine year, six

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Speaker 1: billion dollar plus agreement to show the PGA Tour in

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Speaker 1: the US. While you can't see live golf on American television,

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Speaker 1: Big Money Live sports rights. It's changed the landscape of

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Speaker 1: sports everywhere. It's changed labor relations, it's changed away the

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Speaker 1: players think about the game. What's your take on live

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Speaker 1: sports rights and how it's just grown exponentially over the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years as the media landscape becomes more fragmented.

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Speaker 1: The PGA Tours TV rights is set and stone until

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Speaker 1: but it's definitely changing the way that players think about

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Speaker 1: the sport. Yes, well, that's what I was saying. The

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Speaker 1: tour is in a great place. These person increases that

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Speaker 1: you're hearing about these new events. UM Comcast Business Top

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Speaker 1: ten just finished yesterday and Scottie Scheffler one another four

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Speaker 1: million dollars in a bonus program for the number one

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Speaker 1: in Comcast. There's a lot of money and that's been

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Speaker 1: coming in the pipeline. UM. I was part of the

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Speaker 1: board when you signed all those deals that the money

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Speaker 1: is there. Here's an example. If you have Davis Love's

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Speaker 1: career as a rookie right now, I made fifty eight

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Speaker 1: million and comprehensive earnings UM prize money benefits retirement plan.

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Speaker 1: If you have my career going forward as a rookie,

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Speaker 1: Tom Kim, you make six hundred and fifteen million on

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Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. Our money, our business has grown exponentially.

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Speaker 1: The players understand that, and that's what what we say is,

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Speaker 1: we're we're really not playing for money. We're playing for

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Speaker 1: prize trophies, accolades, UM hall of fame. If you play

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Speaker 1: for that, there's plenty of money out there. Are are

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Speaker 1: sports in a great place, and that's why the argument

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Speaker 1: that you want to play less goes somewhere else. That's

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Speaker 1: that doesn't work. You're you're just taking guaranteed money rather

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Speaker 1: than the way we play for it. You have to

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Speaker 1: earn it every year. Patrick Cantley made million last year

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Speaker 1: on the course. He started at zero this year like

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Speaker 1: everybody else. And that's what's interesting about the way we

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Speaker 1: play is you missed the cut. I missed the cut

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Speaker 1: last week. I got paid zero. So I gotta start

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Speaker 1: over again and go back and enter another tournament and

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Speaker 1: try to win some money. And that's what's interesting. But

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Speaker 1: our sports could not be in a better place. Our

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Speaker 1: relationship with the major championships. Everything's going great in golf

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Speaker 1: except for UM, a corporate hospital takeover UM behind the scenes. Yeah, Davis,

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Speaker 1: you know you mentioned Jim Nance and you know that

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Speaker 1: takes me back. I mean takes me back to the

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Speaker 1: PGA Championship at wingfot you know where I'm going here,

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Speaker 1: the rainbow, the winning put. You know how nance connected

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Speaker 1: that with your late father. You know you've also won

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Speaker 1: the Father Son Challenge with your son Drew. I mean,

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Speaker 1: You've had so many different moments You've captured, you know,

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Speaker 1: a winning Ryder Cup team. I mean going back, I

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Speaker 1: mean what I mean what a career, I mean what

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Speaker 1: stands out to you? I mean, what's your favorite moment

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Speaker 1: in golf? Well, wingfoot was was special because of a friendship.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the CBS family. I was briefly on TV

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Speaker 1: with him and it didn't work out, But DBS family

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Speaker 1: um has been great to me my whole career. Some

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Speaker 1: of my best friends worked for CBS Sports. So for

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Speaker 1: Jim Nance, almost ten years after my dad's passing, to

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Speaker 1: be able to tell that story of a club pro

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Speaker 1: son that wins the p G A championship and that's

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Speaker 1: the legacy in the history of Cam Young is a

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Speaker 1: son of a p g A of American member, Justin Thomas,

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Speaker 1: the son of a PGA. We weren't born with a

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Speaker 1: golden spoon in our mouth and were immediately put on

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Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. We dug it out of the dirt,

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Speaker 1: like Tiger Woods says. And my greatest moments really now

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Speaker 1: are being on these teams, watching that team at Hazel

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Speaker 1: teen celebrated Ryder Cup win after three losses, being a

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Speaker 1: part of Steve Stricker's to two wins on the Presents

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Speaker 1: Cup and the Ryder Cup. And watching these teams um

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Speaker 1: reach a lifelong goal of being on a winning team

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Speaker 1: representing their country. Those are the moments I love. My

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Speaker 1: dad gave back to the game his whole life. I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to give back to the name. Tiger Woods

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Speaker 1: and Rory mclroy behind the scenes right now are building

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Speaker 1: for the future of the PGA Tour. Um. I don't

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Speaker 1: like being the voice of the PJ Tour get named

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Speaker 1: in lawsuits. Right now, I'm willing. I'm willing to die

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Speaker 1: on this hill. I'm putting my reputation out there to

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Speaker 1: support the PGA Tour. So moments that that I get

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Speaker 1: to be thankful and and show my appreciation for the

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour and captain these teams, I'm gonna be a

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Speaker 1: proud North Carolinian UM PJ Tour, remember representing this team

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Speaker 1: in Charlotte and giving them a chance to go out

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Speaker 1: and play for the Presents Cup. So I've been really

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Speaker 1: blessed in my career to have a lot of great

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Speaker 1: moments thanks to UM, the Platform and the PGA Tour. Alright, kids,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you all a lesson about taking care

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Speaker 1: of your body, and I'm gonna let you in on

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Speaker 1: a little secret. I was born April fifteenth, nineteen sixty four.

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Speaker 1: Davis Love the third was born only two days before me.

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Speaker 1: He's still playing on the p G A Tour. I

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Speaker 1: tried to move stuff out of my house a few

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Speaker 1: days ago and needed gallons of water because I was

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Speaker 1: ready to pass out. I mean, Michael D. L three

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Speaker 1: is also designed quite a few golfesses. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: go to is like, you are designing courses with your

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Speaker 1: brother Mark and and you turned it into a big business.

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Speaker 1: This is why you keep yourself in shape, folks. First

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Speaker 1: of all, what's the secret? And second of all, how

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Speaker 1: do you like designing golf courses? Well, the secrets. I've

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Speaker 1: been very blessed not only with a body that can

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Speaker 1: recover from stuff, but also with great doctors that keep

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Speaker 1: putting me by together. Tiger and I argue and argue

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Speaker 1: about who has the most parts in their bioup have

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Speaker 1: two hips and a fuse neck and all kinds of

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Speaker 1: stuff fixed. But I have been blessed that my body

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Speaker 1: is held up. There's a lot of players that don't

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Speaker 1: hold up that long. UM. But I love golf course design. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable to create something from nothing. UM. Go out

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Speaker 1: in the woods and then come out with a course

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Speaker 1: that all kinds of can enjoy. Plan. But the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing for me is like a little kid, I get

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Speaker 1: to play with the big heavy equipment. I just bulldozers

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Speaker 1: and excocators like my granddaughters called them. UM. I like

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Speaker 1: learning and Pete I gave me a great piece of advice.

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Speaker 1: He said, you're not a golf course architect unless you

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Speaker 1: get on the equipment and learn how to build him.

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Speaker 1: He was telling me that I needed to learn how

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Speaker 1: to move the dirt around so I could translate my

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Speaker 1: vision to the people that actually do it. But I

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Speaker 1: love going out there and building them. I love playing

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Speaker 1: with um with the equipment. I have a I have

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Speaker 1: a bulldozer coach that helps me when my my bulldozers still.

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Speaker 1: So one day when I ride off into the sunset

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Speaker 1: from playing golf, you can come find me at some

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Speaker 1: big pile of dirt building a golf and Lucas at

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Speaker 1: the June's cars. Right, that's my first That was the

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Speaker 1: first place I learned to ride a bulldozer was was

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Speaker 1: in Cabo on the sand dunes. The reason they let

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Speaker 1: me do it there is because there were nothing to

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Speaker 1: hit wide up and sand. Dude, you take a d

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Speaker 1: a bulldozer, you better not running it. Well. Staying on

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Speaker 1: this idea of designing golf courses, there is a narrative,

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Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly, that golf course land is a waste

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Speaker 1: of space. It's it's bad for the environment. Um, there's

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Speaker 1: an impact and negative impact of the earth in the environment,

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Speaker 1: the pesticide use. Um, it sucks up a lot of water.

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Speaker 1: What do you have to think about now? How do

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Speaker 1: you go about planning a golf course while keeping it

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Speaker 1: environmentally sustainable? Can you talk us through some of the

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Speaker 1: solutions that you have come up with? Yeah, that that's

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Speaker 1: a great question because half half of our business, my

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Speaker 1: architects side of it. Um, my staff is permitting is

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Speaker 1: staying away from You know, I'm a hunter and a fisherman,

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Speaker 1: so I first, first things first, let's don't make the

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Speaker 1: eagle mad, and let's don't mess with the wood storks,

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Speaker 1: and let's make sure the fishing is good when we

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Speaker 1: get done. So yes, um, I literally watch us build

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Speaker 1: a lake and before the golf course is done, the

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Speaker 1: birds are in the lake. Um. We have to be

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Speaker 1: aware of that. There are a lot of rules and regulations,

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Speaker 1: just like home building, just like building a factory, we

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Speaker 1: put up silt fences, we have outflows. We try to

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Speaker 1: keep um the simple explanations. We try to keep the

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Speaker 1: water contained so it doesn't go anywhere else with the chemicals.

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Speaker 1: Chemicals now are restricted as well. Just like in farming,

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Speaker 1: you can't just spray. You have to have permits to spray.

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Speaker 1: So we we spend an inordinate amount of time on that.

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Speaker 1: Then what we're trying to do is build golf courses

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Speaker 1: that don't use as much water, that don't have as

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Speaker 1: much as many acres of grass to maintain. Fuel is expensive, Um,

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Speaker 1: the fertilizers are expensive. We're trying to shrink that. We

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Speaker 1: did a course in Sun Valley, Idaho, where we reduced

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Speaker 1: the average that acre per hole, so they could sustain

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Speaker 1: be sustainable in the future when water is going to

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Speaker 1: dry up. So yeah, it's a big concern Um. And

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Speaker 1: then we want to make it fun for people to play,

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Speaker 1: so we want to make it not maybe not quite

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Speaker 1: as hard um which also helps us with environmental side.

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Speaker 1: We're not putting so many hazards out there and things

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Speaker 1: to maintain. Bunkers are expensive to maintain. It takes manpower

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Speaker 1: and energy, and we're trying to restrict that as much

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Speaker 1: as we can. Davis Love the third. I'm with your partner.

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Speaker 1: I've got two hips and three neck fusions with you, buddy. There.

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Speaker 1: I'm creaking around here still, man. But you're on the

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Speaker 1: PG eight tour and and taking names and kicking. But

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Speaker 1: thank you so much, sir. I'm so glad you could

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Speaker 1: join us here on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Good

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Speaker 1: luck to you in the President's cups there. Yeah, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thanks for the time, and go USA. We'll be ready

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Speaker 1: in September. This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: Will we explore some of the big money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports. I'm Michael barn I'm Scarlett phill

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Speaker 1: and I'm Demien Sassaur and you can catch our podcast

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Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. We're ever you download your podcast,

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Speaker 1: and please do not forget to join our show on

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Speaker 1: Friday's where you can hear it on Bloomberg Radio