WEBVTT - Thursday Therapy: Love in the Golden Age 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.359 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.040 On today's Therapy Thursday, We've got an episode of love 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.960 with doctor Gloria Horseley and doctor Frank Powers. They are 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.040 such a cute couple and they have a new book 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.079 coming out called Open to Love, the Secrets of Senior Dating. 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.239 It's going to be releasing on Valentine's Day. But let's 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.720 get a little look into what it takes to have 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.560 a great love. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.200 Hi, Hey, Janna, Hi. 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.360 I mean I'm talking to doctors. This is cool. I 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:32.000 like this. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:34.080 Exactly. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.199 How are you guys doing? 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:35.360 Wait? 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:36.680 Where are you guys? Where do you guys live at? 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:43.040 We are right now in Arizona, in Scottsdale and Palo Alto, California. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:44.000 It's kind of home. 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.440 Base, Okay. I shot a movie in Arizona this past 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.199 summer and it was so hot, but it was it 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.120 was so cute. We were in Patagonia, like this cute 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:55.880 little small town. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.840 I ever been there, No, my grandkids have been there. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.160 It's a door. It's really it's a really cute town. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.520 It's just I was about fourteen fifteen weeks pregnant when 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.440 I was filming it, and then just like that that 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.560 dry heat. I was like, whoa, Oh my god, it's 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:13.559 a hot one. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:14.880 Wow. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:16.760 Being pregnant and being there, whoa. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.600 I mean, lots of people do it. I'm sure a 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.320 lot of pregnant women live in Arizona. Yeah. But okay, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.720 So you guys have a book coming out. It's called 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.440 Open to Love. It's a Secrets of Senior Dating. And 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.240 I just, first of all, how long have you guys 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:31.800 been together? 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:32.000 For? 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:34.240 Two years? 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.920 Two years? Okay? Because I saw on the notes that 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:38.759 you were widowed for what sixty years? 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.480 Yeah? I was married for sixty years and my husband 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.360 died of a staff in fiction after back surgery. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.319 Wow. And then how did you guys meet? 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:54.720 Well, it's kind of my backstory. I after my husband died, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.120 I so it was that therapist at the time, and 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.040 I decided to go into a grief group support group. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.680 And I went into the group and I met a 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.800 guy who was a golfer. I met Abbot Golfer, and 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:13.000 we started dating and we were dating for a while, 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.600 and then he ended up moving in with me. And 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.200 you know, it was great being with somebody, but he 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.120 was pretty controlling and ups and downs, but I stayed 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.680 in the relationship because you know, we golfed and he 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.360 was a great guy. His wife had died a couple 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:34.919 of days after my husband, So at Christmas time, we've 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.000 been together for about seven or eight months, and a 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.080 Christmas time, a twenty seven of my family members went 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.720 to Hawaii over Christmas and he came with us. Steve 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.840 and I stayed a little bit longer, which he wasn't 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.880 happy about, and you know, he was welcome to stay, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.720 but he didn't want to. So he left and went 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.400 home to our where we were living. And I got 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.080 a note from him when he when he after he 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.000 got home, and he said, oh, by the way, it's 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.400 not working out for me and it's too much. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:10.000 And he. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:12.040 Ghosted me. 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:13.520 How old were you? 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.920 Yeah, and he said, I'm leaving the key to the house. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.399 And we had a joint bank account, closed our bank 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.040 account and I'm sorry it didn't work out, and that 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:23.600 was kind of it. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:29.040 And I was in home, favorite I mean, yes, he did. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.560 I was in Hawaii, and I had COVID when I 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.120 stayed longer, I got COVID. So I'm sitting in my 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.440 hotel room and I'm thinking I'm really hurt and unhappy 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.440 and I'm thought, I'm going to write a book for widows, 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.040 because I've written some other books. I'm going to write 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.000 a book for widows and kind of try to figure 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.800 out what's going on here, you know, in my life. Well, 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.120 he had talked about online dating, so I thought, well, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.160 Steve had done my day. So I thought, I think 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.240 I'll put in a chapter online dating. So, okay, I've 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.160 got to do that. So I go on my cell 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:06.920 phone and find Silver Singles. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.320 Oh I never heard of Silver Singles. That's so cute. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:11.400 What a cute little ring. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.160 Yes, So I went on Silber Singles and I signed up, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.640 and Frank was the second. I had two people that 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.400 were in the Arizona area because I was staying with 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.160 my sister and so. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.160 The first one really helped me out, like Steve did 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.640 because he had his shriner shirt on, but Dave on 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:32.920 the top. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.800 Of the bill. I liked pretty good after. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.360 That, and then when I got home, the second date 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.080 was Frank. Of course, Frank and I both have pretty 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.240 robust websites. He's a sculptor as well as a therapist, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.360 so when we got together, it was just like whoa, whoa. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.920 But I did say to him by the way when 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.800 I first met him. By the way, I just want 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.680 you to know that I'm only dating you because I'm writing 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:00.000 a book. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.119 And I was crash falling. I thought, oh my god, 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:04.839 she's better than her profile. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.640 I mean, you meet up somebody and they're they're better 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:09.600 than their profile. 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.240 That is so cute. 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.080 We just hit it off immediately. But Frank's got a 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:16.359 whole different story than I do. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.120 Yes, I am a divorcee. 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.640 So I had a divorce about always about a year 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.719 and a half before, and I was really thinking, well, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.839 at this age, you know, it's. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.000 I'm kind of old, you know, let me. 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.040 Go back online because I met my wife online and 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.840 I thought, well, okay, let's let's see. I was I 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.800 was just about ready to give up and go into 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.040 a senior community, you know, and and then kind of 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.799 like fold into the warehousing thing. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.680 That they do with old people, you know. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:55.640 So but then I saw her profile and I said, wow, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:06:01.800 this is really a dynamic, cute intelligently, Hey, let's see 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:03.480 what she's really like a real person. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.840 So, and she was better in person than on. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.520 Well, I think it's it's something cute too that you 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.920 said like that one guy did the guy that ghosted you, 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:27.960 did you know you? Frank a favor and it was 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.080 something cute. My fiance the other night we were just 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.160 we kind of have little check ins every once in 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.960 a while, and sitting down and he we're talking through 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.000 some things and he's like, I don't know how anyone 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.800 could ever let you go, and I'm like, well, I'm 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.480 glad they did, you know, because we wouldn't be here, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.760 you know. And that's that's the beautiful thing of you 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.960 don't think that you're gonna or at least for me, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.560 like I didn't think. I remember. Actually this morning, I 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.520 was going through one of my journals. I was writing 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.640 in and I like to see what I've written before 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.680 obviously and kind of just see like you know, how 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.400 it's press and everything. But one of the chapters when 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.240 I was writing in when I got divorced, I was like, well, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.120 will I ever be loved again? Will someone ever? 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:09.520 You know? 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.360 Will I ever be happy? And will I ever will 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.560 I basically ever, you know, find love again? And I 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.240 think so many people when they have, you know, either 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.640 a divorce or they lose someone, like will they ever 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.880 feel that love again? And it's that helpless and hopeless 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.080 feeling of like you want to be loved, but will 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.880 someone ever will someone look at me and go oh 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.320 or embrace the you know, the flaws and the and 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.040 the you know, the beauty that someone has. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.280 And I think most people go through that, Yes, yeah. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:40.840 And I think that's you know, beautiful that you know 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.880 to look at you guys too. You guys have obviously 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.400 both lived, you know, and you've had a you know, husband, 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.600 and you've wife and married all the things. But yet 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.040 you're still open to the love. I think is beautiful 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.120 because so many people get so cynical about it and 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:55.600 even say to me like, oh, I don't know how 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.360 you're you know, getting married again, And I'm like, well, 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.560 I'd rather have love in my life than not. It's 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:02.680 kind of how I look at it. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.960 Loneliness is such an issue around the United States. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.520 The biggest mental health issue for older adults is. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.280 Lovely huge right now, and with COVID and all that. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.720 But yeah, it's been kind of amazing. We've been really 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:22.080 happy with us the Golden Bachelor, because you know, he's. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.280 Really highlights the possibility of finding a relationship. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.400 Yeah after a loss, because you know, I think you 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.760 were talking about divorce and Frank and I have talked 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.480 about this. I got more support as a widow than 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.360 divorced people do, far more support, and you know the 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.520 case and the divorce is such a loss too, well. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.800 Wells feels like a failure, you know, and losing your spouse, 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.319 it doesn't feel like a failure. It feels like you're 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.360 heroic in terms of going. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.640 Forward, and divorce is usually don't feel heroic. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:58.040 Yeah. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.080 No, Well that's such a good point too, because I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:01.960 was looking at some of my comments I wrote on 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.240 an Instagram thing I said about my fancy. I said, 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.679 I get to marry you this year, and someone commented like, well, 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.320 hope this one works out. And it's like, it's not 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.200 like I wanted my last one to not work out, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.560 you know what I mean? Like I didn't. I didn't 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.040 choose for him to cheat on me. I would have 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.360 loved to stay married. Yeah, I'm like, I don't like 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.400 the comments like that. I'm just like I didn't. That 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.160 wasn't the road I wanted. Having said that, I'm so 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.360 much happier now and I'm so glad in a way 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.800 that that happened so that I could have this kind 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.520 of love that is unlike anything I've ever experienced, So like, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.000 thank you to it. 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:38.520 That didn't work out, Like. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.839 I'm so thankful now, Like I'm like, I'm thank you, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.280 like for for doing and cheating because now I like 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.480 have the most incredible man that I didn't even think 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.840 I deserved or could ever have, Like wow, you know, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.560 and it's like so I just it bothers me because 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.120 you're right, like we do we get cast as the 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.680 like problem or you know, we're broken as opposed to 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:00.360 you know. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.920 Yeah, Well the other thing about a widow or a 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.240 widower is if you meet another widow or widow widow, 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.480 everybody's like kumbayah. These two men, you know, they give 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.679 you support. Society says this is okay. But a divorcee 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.440 starts debating another divorcee, people are like, oh, I wonder 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.680 if this will work well? What about him where. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.680 He's going to work out? And he's a divorce. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.880 So then what made you guys want to write a 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.040 book together? Because that's like that I love that and 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.200 like and you know, the people that are listening, I 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.000 don't know, you know, I don't even think my mom 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.960 listens anymore to the podcast. But you know what is 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.560 some advice to for maybe our younger audience that is 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:45.680 losing hope as well. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.880 Well. We I think our number one thing is to 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.520 say we believe that there's somebody out there. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.000 For everything, there is someone out there, but finding them 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.320 is really a whole issue. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.840 How do you do that now? And you know, for people. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.960 Our age, we did not have online dating, and so 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.880 that wasn't one of the pieces that people our age 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.240 are familiar with. So it's a new thing and I 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.360 think that you have to learn from your grandchildren or 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:21.280 for someone who is more adapt at using online dating. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.120 And we talk about having dating buddies that a person 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:27.600 our age really needs. 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.040 Any age, I think, for any age, for any age, 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:31.080 but especially us. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.360 Yeah, but you do need a dating buddy, somebody, I 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.440 know some people call them wingmen or whatever you know, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.120 to support you in this process. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.640 Because don't don't do it alone. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.800 It's really can be kind of daunting, especially for people 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.440 who are not that familiar with how to use internet processes. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.839 And another thing, everybody, I mean, some of these things 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.400 that we have are for it doesn't matter what age 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.880 you are. Our first thing is to get a dating buddy, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.400 and then we talk about you've got to make space 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.480 in your life. It takes time to. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.319 Day, well, yes, because there are these things that are 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.319 connected with a past relationship and those things have to 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.800 kind of get out of your life so you have 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.920 space to bring someone in. If you're still ruminating or 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.440 you're still going over the issues. 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:28.200 Of the loss whatever through divorce or our death, you're. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.280 Not really going to have the energy and the open 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.839 space to invite someone in. So you do work through 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.400 that before you're ready to bring someone in. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.240 What is your advice? Because I've seen this happen a 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:58.760 couple times where older people and even in my AGM, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.400 I'm forty now, so people and I did this when 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.240 I was thirty because I'm like, well, I really want kids, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.120 and so I settled a little a little bit because 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:09.800 I was like, all right, well, I mean he's good, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.720 and you know, I want kids, and I'm hardy thirty 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.400 and I don't really know if I have any prospects, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.560 you know, anybody else. And then I see people that 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.920 get older, same thing where it's like, all right, your 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.559 forties fifties, well shoot, I don't want to spend the 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.520 rest of my life alone. And then they kind of 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.080 settle into a relationship. So what's your advice to tell 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:27.240 someone not to do that? 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.559 Well, I think in the first chapter of our book, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.440 we talk about if you're going to start dating, know 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.640 who you are, make a list, make a list what's 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.720 worked for you in the past and what hasn't work. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.040 For last relationships. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.679 That is one thing. If you're a little older, you 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.200 have some experiences, so you know what you liked and 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.880 what worked in relationships and what did not and what 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.240 did not is just as important as what did work. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.160 And so I want to sort of get a picture 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.880 of what kind of person what kind of personality, what 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.959 kinds of things are important to you in a relationship 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.200 that satisfy you and make you feel connected and love 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.760 and where you want to develop the intimacy of a 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.880 more permanent relationship. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.640 So know who you are and then it will make 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.840 some space. Get a dating body, make some space, know 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.200 who you are, and then you've got to go where 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:25.880 the action. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.640 Is literally and figuratively. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.720 Yeah, the action is literally online right now, especially for seniors, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.600 especially for women. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:36.560 Women. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.040 It's fifty to fifty online in our age group especially, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.840 and that is not true in real life. So women 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.360 have a much better chance and it's a much better 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.120 place to go to meet people who you wouldn't normally meet. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.960 It gives you a much broader range of possibilities for 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:58.200 yourself to find the one. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.880 Yep, what is your gu biggest advice for conflict in 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:02.720 a relationship? 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:09.240 Conflict in a relationship? Our biggest advice is, I want 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.040 to say comfortize avoid it. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.160 I mean, conflict is real and it really helps you. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.720 Once you get past the conflict, you actually feel closer. 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:22.560 You feel like, oh wow, okay, yeah, I really think 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.400 that this person and I can get through things. And 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.200 that is a wonderful thing to feel with a partner. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:34.720 But preempting it is good because if you are going 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.640 to start dating, how do you avoid conflict? Do you 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.080 pick people that you're not going to argue with. If 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.400 you don't want somebody who drinks, for example, then you 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.000 put it in your profile. I want somebody who does 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.400 not drink. And you stand by that because we tend 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.320 to repeat patterns. So what are the things that have 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.160 irritated you do in the past that haven't worked out, 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.840 that have not out? Don't go into a relationship and 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.560 don't you know, you've got to figure out what your 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.640 bottom line is what are you willing to put up with? 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.360 What are you willing not to put up with it? 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.480 And then you've got to look for the somebody. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.360 And Gloria and I both feel pretty strongly that twenty 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:19.320 and thirty year olds sometimes really are attracted to opposite 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.520 sort of different you see people, they think someone will 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.960 bring that quality in, and then most of the time 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.960 the twenties and thorties will spend the next ten years 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.080 trying to change that person to be more like that. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:36.640 Yeah, be more like you're older, don't do that. 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:38.760 Yeah, I did that in my late twenties for sure. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.640 And then when I finally looked at it, I'm like, well, 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.320 I don't like any of the qualities, and I'm sure 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.520 he isn't like any the qualities. I mean, we're just both. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:45.840 Trying to change people. 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.240 Yeah, it's like this is not working. What do you 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.960 think in a relationship to is the absolute kiss of death. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:57.680 In a relationship? Well, when people will not talk, when 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.160 they stonewall. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.200 You, Yeah, that's not a good sign. That's not a 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:02.880 helpful thing. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:09.560 Good conversation, ability to be open and share, the ability 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.840 to be yourself and not try to be someone who 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.240 you're not those are real problems for most people in 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.560 terms of finding a relationship. I worked with a lot 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.040 of men in my practice, and many of them really 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:29.160 in a sense, had no clue how to develop a friendship, 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:34.000 a real connection with a woman, And they didn't have 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.800 good models, usually in their own fathers, and so they 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:42.000 really had problems building that kind of friendship. Now they 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.440 could do it with other males a lot of times, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.320 but they had a real hard time developing that same 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.959 friendship feeling and feeling of connection with women. And I 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:57.320 do think for males in general, this is a real issue. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.400 And I hope that through our book and through our 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.080 work that we'll be able to encourage men to really, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.439 in a sense, try to build a friendship. Don't just 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.360 look for some lovely thing on your arm to impress 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.720 other men. You really want to have a friend. 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.320 Frank for you though, like in your past and maybe 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.800 even in your current situation, you know now with Gloria 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.919 your relationship, is there something where you it's a pattern 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.639 that you've always kind of struggled with in the relationship, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.720 whether it's you know, maybe you're not the best communicator, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.680 or maybe you you know you walk away, or because 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.199 there's something that you do that is you've had to 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.960 actively work on stubborn. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:39.840 Yes. 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.800 Yes, I have a tendency to be very thick headed. 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.040 I think a certain way, and I have a lot 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.480 of faith in my convictions, so I really have a 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.920 hard time sometimes bringing in new thoughts and new ways 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:00.720 of doing things. 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.080 And I do think that that's one of the beauties. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.439 Because she is so talented and in just teasing me 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:14.679 about my stubbornness, and I kind of melt and it's wonderful. 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.480 Yeah, I kind of see that with my Mom's husband 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.719 does a really good job where she's very she's more 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.720 of I think, not to say that he's not strong, 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.000 but like she's just as stronger, and she can get 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.840 a little bit feisty and stubborn quite quick like I do, 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.920 which is what I think I got for my mom. 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.080 But you know, and he just he deals with it 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.160 so well with her too. I mean, he lets her 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:40.560 tote the line a little bit, but then and then 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.800 we'll reel her in at times. But it's just when 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.160 you almost see that in someone, it's like if you 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.200 you know, you work with them on it, and it's 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:49.960 almost like becomes like one of the things that I 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.120 was like, oh that might rub me the wrong way. 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.679 With my fiance, now is like endearing to me. 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.679 My defensiveness just melts with her. She's so wonderful. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.199 Yeah, Gloria, what about you, I'm curious on your side. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:09.480 Oh my gosh. I get task oriented and I will 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.680 then tell Frank what to do. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.320 So then he becomes like your assistant. You're talking to 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.679 him like a like a worker instead of a husband, like. 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.280 Yeah, I'm ready to get podcast or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:22.960 this is going to be on. This is what we 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:24.879 have to do this. 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.480 But I also think that's a woman thing. Though I 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:29.520 feel like that's a woman thing because I do the 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.199 same thing. And I'm like, I, oh, I forget, like 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.119 I have to adjust my tone like hey baby, like 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:34.520 we've got instead of being like all right, we got 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.680 this that because it's like we're delegators. We're tasked. We 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.359 have to get things done and like and it's they 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.560